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Wednesday, October 28, 2015

The danger of comments

Allum Bokhari and Milo Yiannopoulos observe that the mainstream media is increasingly unwilling to permit the public to talk back for fear that their lies and inept arguments will be exposed.
It’s no accident that so many of the loudest voices against online comments sections are also political zealots. Jessica Valenti, Arthur Chu, Tauriq Moosa, Anita Sarkeesian: all have come out against comment sections. This isn’t an accident, of course. Psychologists have long been aware that political extremists have the most negative reactions to contrary information. Combine that with a disdain for free speech, a core cultural authoritarian value, and you get a frantic rush to remove the opinions of ordinary people.

But there are also more sinister, elitist motivations. A study conducted by The Washington Post and USA Today found that readers who viewed articles with comments sections were more likely to develop a negative opinion of the news media. Curiously, this effect was seen even when commenters praised the article in question. In other words, when the opinions of journalists and the opinions or ordinary members of the public are placed close together, it leads readers to question the competence of the mainstream media. What horror!

Another study found that reading assertive, aggressive comments could actually sway the opinions of readers. “Don’t read the comments,” warned Ars Technica, “they can make you mistrust real experts.”

It’s a piece of advice that captures the war on comments sections perfectly. Having initially cheered on the death of the “gatekeepers of information,” cultural elites are now scrambling to reinstall those barriers. Too late, they have discovered that people don’t always agree with them – and now they want to push that disagreement into the wilderness of the internet.
As most of you are aware, I am very pro-comments and pro-talking back. And while I have had to go to a higher level of moderation of late due to an unfortunate incident or two, it's always been my intention to return to unregistered commenting. Which I am doing so now.

However, I would strongly recommend continuing to comment with a registered name as any attempts to abuse the more open system will be met with an immediate response, which will include, but is not limited to, turning the registration requirement on for extended periods of time without warning. This is the last time that I will announce the status; in the future it will be simply turned on, or off, as the moderators and I see fit.

Free speech is important. So is complete anonymity. Respect and support that by refraining from trolling, from "just having fun", from "making a point", from "playing a role", and just as importantly, from responding to the occasional troll.

Labels:

210 Comments:

1 – 200 of 210 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Poli_Mis October 28, 2015 8:08 AM  

Only role playing around here should be RPG.

Blogger Hammerli280 October 28, 2015 8:15 AM  

I never understood why people thought they had any business behaving online in a way they would not do in person.

But then, I'm Very Old School.

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2015 8:19 AM  

But then, I'm Very Old School.

Even Very Old School had people who acted far more confident and foolhardy in writing than in person, I'm sure.

Anonymous LegallySpeaking October 28, 2015 8:23 AM  

I think I've said this here before, but I would point out that the modern American of "free speech" has only been around since the early 20th Century. It was an idea championed by lefty jurisprudence. The lefties came up with a broad definition of free speech and terms like "marketplace of ideas" (attributed to J.S. Mill, but pushed in jurisprudence later) as ways to loosen restrictions on speech---restrictions which had put constraints on the dissemination of lefty ideals. It was a completely self-serving argument designed to allow the left to get more direct propaganda out there. Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. fell for the argument later in life.

Before that, free speech could be more heavily regulated, as the Sedition Act of 1918 shows--malice and intent to do harm were the standards. And the arguments against broader free speech were pretty strong: a speaker disseminating malicious words or had an intent to do harm was likened to a person deliberately spreading a disease that could become an epidemic that would kill an ordered society. Which, given the fact that we today use the term 'meme' to connote ideas that seem to spread from person-to-person until permeating society like a replicating virus, doesn't seem that far fetched.

If we ever sweep away leftists in power, we should revisit those old notions of free speech and see if they might not comport better with logic than our current understanding.

Anyway, its unsurprising that the left is leading the charge to destroy free speech now that it is in power. Remember: SJWs always lie. The contradictory arguments of leftists in the last 100 years for more free speech versus their lobbying for less free speech now are entirely bizarre and make no sense----until you conclude that they have no principles at all besides one: how do I get what I want right now? Once you realize that a leftist doesn't have any bedrock principles, but is only arguing to get a short term-foothold up in the power structure, everything makes sense.

Anonymous Jib Halyard October 28, 2015 8:26 AM  

It's been my experience that left-wing blogs tend to have the most aggressive moderation policies, among those that actually allow comments.

Blogger Salt October 28, 2015 8:28 AM  

left-wing blogs tend to have the most aggressive moderation policies

A few love their mallet.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2015 8:31 AM  

> Which I am doing so now.

Thanks. I don't use it, but some do, and I know they appreciate the ability to do so.

Blogger Floyd Looney October 28, 2015 8:35 AM  

I often click on things from "conservative" sites that sound like they need some, er, constructive criticism and there are no comments section. Since I never really go to left-leaning sites I wouldn't know about those.

Blogger Cecil Henry October 28, 2015 8:47 AM  

Simple reality today is: no comments section means no credibility.

Such organizations are trying to TELL you what to think, not answer to thinking.

I give no credibility to news that blocks comments-- you always know now that its propaganda and won;t stand up to challenge.

Anonymous BigGaySteve October 28, 2015 8:48 AM  

Another study found that reading assertive, aggressive comments could actually sway the opinions of readers.

Just following a link to the 13yo in Lima OH that raped a 90yo white woman was enough to convince people that the picture lamestream showed for 17yo Skittles was a lie. Soros has a paid internet army of trolls paid to be his cheerleaders of the apocalypse.

Even Very Old School had people who acted far more confident and foolhardy in writing than in person, I'm sure.

Ben Franklin wrote letters to the editor under so many false names he was the first echo chamber. I never knew if it was the real GRapeRapeM posting about rapes here or a parody of him, people growing up now might not know what parody is.. It is almost unbelievable that this http://www.gynostar.com/archives/comic/the-just-us-league is not a parody of feminism and social justice warriors, but it is actually for real, written by Rebecca Cohen drinker of much kool aid

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2015 October 28, 2015 8:52 AM  

Ah, I'm back to my real self. Feels good.
Name registration means "joint ownership" which means contracts under duress a lot of the time.

On the other hand. Paid up shills, trolls, disinformation agents destroy hundreds of forums on a daily basis. The tags, "cloud cuckoo land, tin foil hat, conspiracy theorist etc etc have smoke screened/ subverted hundreds of websites. Inanity, white noise, base swearing. ie everything it takes to be an actual slave and dumb down an audience will be thrown in rapid fire.

The down side is having dumb slaves won't save the house from burning down - which is where the West is at. A dumbed down fluoridated vaccinated highly entertained empty calorie diet workforce couldn't plug the holes in the dyke.

Blogger Alexander October 28, 2015 8:54 AM  

The whole point of our news machinery is to ensure that the correct narrative is sold.

The real marvel is how slow they were on the uptake that allowing the proles to communicate directly with one another in the same forum where the lie was being told was a terrible idea. And to think the snowflakes truly believe that they are technological wizkidz.

Blogger Lulabelle October 28, 2015 8:57 AM  

"Two questions: (1) Who are the moderators, and (2) who is exempt from criticism and/or attack and/or ridicule (i.e. such comments may be deleted and/or their authors threatened by moderators)?"

1. I'm curious. Why do you care?
2. No one is immune from criticism or attack.

Blogger Lulabelle October 28, 2015 8:58 AM  

And Anon........you may want to read the blog rules.

Blogger YIH October 28, 2015 8:58 AM  

@10 *ahem* This isn't 8chan
(1) To my knowledge that would be Vox (of course), Markku and automaticmatthew.
(2) See Rules of the blog

Blogger Markku October 28, 2015 9:00 AM  

1: Me, Automatthew and Vox
2: Porky, GG and Asher

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau October 28, 2015 9:03 AM  

“Don’t read the comments,” warned Ars Technica, “they can make you mistrust real experts.”

Of course the 'real' experts in their eyes are Wu, Valenti, Chu, and Sarkeesian along with Kanye, Kim, and North.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian October 28, 2015 9:04 AM  

This is the best blog/commenter forum on the interwebs.

Blogger The Other Robot October 28, 2015 9:04 AM  

Simple reality today is: no comments section means no credibility.

Will the polling orgs provide a comment section for their polls?

That would be useful.

Anonymous Difster October 28, 2015 9:07 AM  

Moar Free Speech.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet October 28, 2015 9:21 AM  

VD,

In your Scalzi debates, I've often wondered what your bounce rate is, given that I know I read entire comment threads sometimes. Readers must spend a great deal of time on each page, yes?

Care to share?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 28, 2015 9:26 AM  

No comments no cred

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 9:30 AM  

I read a few right-wing types who don't have comments on their sites, like John Derbyshire. Generally they're older guys who got their start in the days of newspapers and magazines, so you can see why they think in terms of writing a polished piece and being done with it, not hearing back from readers except for the occasional letter to the editor. Their web sites tend to be fairly primitive, one-man operations.

That's very different from a corporate or media site which has a staff of web monkeys and editors, using a software platform that already supports comments which can be turned on with a click. Especially the sites that had comments enabled previously and then turned them off. Some of those sites grew because people showed up to comment, which gave them free content, and now that they're established they want to try doing without that.

Anonymous Will Best October 28, 2015 9:31 AM  

They had a study recently that people that were told that whites would be less than 50% of the population by 2035 (or whatever year it is), end up becoming substantially more conservative in their opinion on a whole host of issues, not just immigration.

It is likely there are many such triggers and its best to prevent sheep from hearing them.

Anonymous BigGaySteve October 28, 2015 9:37 AM  

people that were told that whites would be less than 50% of the population by 2035...end up becoming substantially more conservative

The entire left is united under the banner of White men will pay for our free stuff. They realize without white men free stuff doesn't happen. Even Mexicans leave CA when they realize it has become too much like mexico

Blogger Mad Dok Rob October 28, 2015 9:41 AM  

I never understood why people thought they had any business behaving online in a way they would not do in person.

But then, I'm Very Old School.


The whole anonymity thing really gets people going. When you can spout off anything with basically no civil repercussions it tends to make some people go off kilter. Basically part of the whole social media destroying the ability of humans to communicate with each other. I swear, I weep for the future when I see how my students communicate with me and with their peers.

Blogger Sage Klubb October 28, 2015 9:43 AM  

It occurs to me that the commenting (or lack of commenting) on any of these sites could be easily circumvented by a separate service offering real commenting. All it would take is some kind of Twitter-like service that offers a browser plug-in that installs comments through the browser. For example, Breitbart could theoretically provide comments sections on the New York Times.

Anonymous G.R.R.M. October 28, 2015 9:43 AM  

Free speech is the cornerstone of a free society. I am the greatest proponent of open and frank dialogue on the internet. I welcome honest debate of all topics.

Blogger Sage Klubb October 28, 2015 9:45 AM  

Or I should have said, I guess, something like Disqus, but attaches itself to a website by force via a plugin.

Blogger Daniel Babylon October 28, 2015 9:45 AM  

Why is anonymity important in this blog? If you don't want your G+ friends knowing you are conservative you could just create a second account or something. Maybe I'm not seeing something but I can't understand the point of anonymity.

Blogger Alexander October 28, 2015 9:46 AM  

@24

That requires foresight. They can look around at a bleak landscape and migrate to the remaining white lands, but they won't stop and think, 'hey, now that we're hear, let's make sure we sustain the good times'.

The don't 'realize' anything. They're just a herd animal that unthinkingly moves from the destroyed soil to the next patch of greenery.

Blogger Markku October 28, 2015 9:47 AM  

Because that's still a big investment of time. Perhaps you have a thought on the issue, but don't plan on becoming a regular. You are much more likely to just not say it, than register an email.

Blogger Markku October 28, 2015 9:54 AM  

G.R.R.M.
I am the greatest proponent of open and frank dialogue on the internet


Must... Resist... Fat... Joke...

Blogger automatthew October 28, 2015 9:59 AM  

I suspect we still want people to refrain from commenting as "Anonymous". If so, we should restore the DIRE WARNING over the comments box.

Blogger Alexander Thompson October 28, 2015 10:01 AM  

Vox has never banned me for strongly disagreeing with him. Other alt right sites have.

Probably why I keep coming back here.

Blogger VD October 28, 2015 10:04 AM  

(1) Who are the moderators, and (2) who is exempt from criticism and/or attack and/or ridicule (i.e. such comments may be deleted and/or their authors threatened by moderators)?

There are multiple moderators including, but not limited to, Markku and automatthew.

I suggest you not bother commenting here, as your passive-aggressive question just about guarantees that I will end up spamming you sooner or later.

In the meantime, please note that "Anonymous" comments are not permitted. Choose a name.

Blogger VD October 28, 2015 10:04 AM  

I suspect we still want people to refrain from commenting as "Anonymous".

We do. I added a note.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 10:06 AM  

"Even Very Old School had people who acted far more confident and foolhardy in writing than in person, I'm sure."

Even Paul indicated that he was more forceful in his letters than in person (cf. II Corinthians 10). But he was sure to give them a caveat that he would back up his letters with actions that were consistent with what he wrote if necessary.

Most people pop off in writing/emails/blogs etc. because they are confident there will be no repercussions for anything they say. It's easier to posture, and then disappear once they're uncomfortable or being called on their BS.

I think VD has created something unique here at VP. The commenters here are more of a community (at least the regulars) than anywhere else. The most refreshing thing here is the straightforward, no-nonsense dialogue that often takes place here, not to mention the amazing pool of incredibly smart and talented people.

I never thought hanging out around a blog could be so much fun. For me it's a welcome retreat into reality. An oasis.

Thank you VD, Markku, and automatthew for your tireless energy and commitment. It's appreciated.

And to the commenters . . you guys are a damn blast!

Blogger VD October 28, 2015 10:10 AM  

Care to share?

I have no idea. I don't know what a "bounce rate" is. I don't think most people realize that I am nearly the opposite of Mike Cernovich. I pay absolutely no attention to SEO and the various social media marketing games.

The main reason this blog exists is to prevent people from emailing me the same questions as everyone else.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 10:14 AM  

It occurs to me that the commenting (or lack of commenting) on any of these sites could be easily circumvented by a separate service offering real commenting.

It's not quite the same thing, but you can do it with sites like reddit and Digg: post a link and a blurb, and then people can comment there. If you did it regularly and quickly with every new post that shows up on a site, you might be able to create a sort of remote home for those wishing they could comment at the original site.

I've thought about doing something like that when I want to comment on articles at comment-free sites like VDare. But then *I* would be responsible for keeping out the trolls and asspies, and who wants that job?

Blogger Engineer-Poet October 28, 2015 10:17 AM  

Two reasons comments lead people to trust the media less:

1.  Journalists in general are not very bright and make lots of errors even when they're not agenda-driven.  Intelligent people can go into e.g. law to pursue a leftist agenda, leaving journalism to the dregs.  When the public has a chance to point out just how many things the "professional" got wrong, credibility goes down the tubes.

2.  Comments agreeing with an article can expose agendas the author wishes to conceal.

Anonymous Roundtine October 28, 2015 10:26 AM  

They hate the global warming comments more than anything.

Anonymous Donn #0114 October 28, 2015 10:34 AM  

My favorite comments vs articles are the 'Yahoo' articles. A medium length screed for the firmly middle brow lefties then -bam- the most popular comments by far and in number are usually the derisive response to the liberal platitudes and pablum of the article and its assumptions.

You have to hand it to a company that really either doesn't get its audience or really doesn't care.

Blogger CM October 28, 2015 10:35 AM  


Even Very Old School had people who acted far more confident and foolhardy in writing than in person, I'm sure.


Yes... but the cost of writing has diminished greatly and given wider opportunity for more idiotic trolls to have an aggressive voice.

Old Ben had a brain and didn't waste his aggressive thinking on stupidity.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 28, 2015 10:37 AM  

The concept of freedom is tried and tested and someday I hope conservatives embrace it instead of trying to square the Left's circle.

Blogger Sage Klubb October 28, 2015 10:37 AM  

@38

The great thing about attaching a comments section via a promoted plugin (vs. a separate discussion site like Reddit) is that it having a conservative/right-wing friendly comments section attached to NYT articles would really really REALLY piss off the NYT.

Anonymous Jay Will October 28, 2015 10:42 AM  

Too many people learning too many things via the internet. Looks like they are going to widen the "hate speech" net in the UK. Expect to see sites like this on the watch/banned/over18 list in future. Then some high profile MSM cases of "white supremacist" commenters doing jail time, ideally in prisons with a high Muslim concentration. Meanwhile the ME will continue to be bombed into democracy and the human ruins guided towards the racist whites of Europe.

Blogger YIH October 28, 2015 10:44 AM  

@40 Roundtine:
I disagree, it's race. For many years I've seen sites disable comments on any news item clearly negative to Africans such as Ferguson or Baltimore.

Blogger rumpole5 October 28, 2015 10:46 AM  

The comments of regular readers to this particular blog are often as, or more, interesting than VD's initial essay.

Blogger Krul October 28, 2015 10:49 AM  

"A study conducted by The Washington Post and USA Today found that readers who viewed articles with comments sections were more likely to develop a negative opinion of the news media."

You don't fucking say. Does anyone actually need a "study" to tell them obvious things like this?

Anonymous WaterBoy October 28, 2015 10:52 AM  

Vox: "Which I am doing so now."

Thank you.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 28, 2015 10:59 AM  

Thanks to you for Vox Popoli and thanks to your helpers.

Blogger Iowahine October 28, 2015 11:00 AM  

Ditto Rabbi B and rumpole. The increase in commenters makes it hard to keep up, but i still come here to learn and/or get a good chuckle every day.

Blogger YIH October 28, 2015 11:02 AM  

@48 Krul:
Considering USA Today (and all other Ganett papers) is wedded to Faceberg as a comment system that says quite a bit.
And even that watered-down SJW digital toxic waste dump is enough to make the German cat ladies uncomfortable.

Anonymous BigGaySteve October 28, 2015 11:03 AM  

Why is anonymity important in this blog? If you don't want your G+ friends knowing you are conservative you could

Patriot nurse got in trouble because on her youtube site she said to weight risk vs. benefit for vaccines. No big hospital healthcare worker can publicly say Gardasil's risks are too high for boys but that literally multiple healthy girls could drop dead right after getting the shot per year with it still being a good risk vs. benefit for girls, because that's Gardasil's track record. The last time I went to my Dr I asked about getting the Hep A vaccine because while I might not go to Mexico anymore Mexico is coming to me. My Dr said I didn't fit the recommended criteria for the Hep A vaccine, just as only veterinarians and spelunkers are the only people recommended to get the rabbies vaccine for pre bite immunity.

Another nurse got fired for posting the same thing Dr Carson said on TV a few days before, that illegal aliens are what bring measles into the US. They pretended it was a HIPAA issue, I have had people think I was breaking HIPAA about Latrina with her 21 illegitimate crack babies because the news story I linked about her only covered her arrest for "cocaine" instead of crack and only mentioned her 21 kids but not any qualifiers for them. Yes the actual number was 21.

I have gone to professional conferences and not only spoken out for gun rights ,but stood up to say that while I have had my fair share of Hispanic ex boyfriends it was unlikely we could get more into the field while we had merit based boards because any Hispanic smart enough to pass them could get a lot better paying position that had no standards other than affirmative action. While I am not shy about such matters I know that I would be harassed by hundreds of hissing harridans who would want my license if they knew who I was and what I have posted here in the past month.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus October 28, 2015 11:09 AM  

Vox, in the interests of openness and honesty, I feel like I need to tell you that "Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus" is not my real name, but is, instead, a pseudonym.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau October 28, 2015 11:10 AM  

The Left doesn't want anonymity in comments because they want to be able to Dox the person guilty of wrongthink. I used to write Letters to the Editor that were published and I'd get hate mail. I started using my nickname instead of my legal name and they couldn't find me anymore.

Similarly I keep two separate identities for Social media, one based on my legal name and one with my nickname. The paper of record always deletes my comments which disagree with the narrative. But leave comments on cute cuddly animals and gumbo recipes.

Anonymous KBT October 28, 2015 11:13 AM  

Yay.

The Ars article on the SXSW kerfuffle is atrocious, and the comments are worse. It's a sea of holier than thou gammas dropping epic hypocrisy bombs along the lines of "We need to act like adults, you troglodyte gamergoober Nazis!" Any dissenting opinion is downvoted to oblivion, or responded to with trite logical fallacies.

Voting systems are fine when they just show a +/- number, but on Ars the unpopular opinions (generally the rational ones based on truth) will actually be hidden, requiring extra clocks to see. Even attempts at reasonably moderate comments that simply try to say the issue is more complex than it's being presented are blasted to hidden status.

The geekverse was never a picture of mental health- I say that as a recovering ex-geek- but we used to stand up against clear and obvious nonsense like SJWs and their ilk back in the day. Well, we did in the circles I grew up in, at least. Libertarianism was rampant. I can't figure out what happened.

Anonymous BGS October 28, 2015 11:15 AM  

28. Daniel Babylon Why is anonymity important in this blog?

Says the person with no publicly shared info on youtube or google. Are you too much of a cuck to even publicly share a cat video?

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2015 11:16 AM  

@Daniel Babylon
Maybe I'm not seeing something but I can't understand the point of anonymity.

You're missing the point where having a second gmail account not linked to you personally *is* essentially anonymity.

Blogger VD October 28, 2015 11:18 AM  

I can't figure out what happened.

Girl-geeks happened.

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2015 11:18 AM  

@KBT
I can't figure out what happened.

Indoctrination into feminism at an early age happened. Anything even remotely masculine got stamped out of geeks via ridicule.

Blogger praetorian October 28, 2015 11:18 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger praetorian October 28, 2015 11:19 AM  

Meme related - Our Hero, The Comments Section:

http://i.imgur.com/7RPrak8.png

> The Narrative will be destroyed.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 28, 2015 11:21 AM  

I would probably comment more frequently if I didn't agree with nearly everything (more or less) I read here.

"Another study found that reading assertive, aggressive comments could actually sway the opinions of readers."

Yes. Always be a little extreme in your comments. It has an effect.

I'm always pleased when I see memes that I created and disseminated years ago start appearing in Alt-Right circles.

"I suggest you not bother commenting here, as your passive-aggressive question just about guarantees that I will end up spamming you sooner or later."

Okay, I laughed out loud at that one.

Blogger Doom October 28, 2015 11:21 AM  

"Free speech is important. So is complete anonymity. Respect and support that by refraining from trolling, from "just having fun", from "making a point", from "playing a role", and just as importantly, from responding to the occasional troll."

Hrm? Now, how much of that I do? Well... it depends. Or maybe I am simply in the delusional category so allowed? I always mean to make a point. I do play a role, if I think I am that, or suspect/worry/wonder such. I always have fun, often even when I am bleeding out. "Here, pull my finger!" I'm going to die laughing, even if alone, I suspect. Other than, maybe, being considered an occasional troll (or ogre, as I prefer), I do ignore those who seem to be more frequently called out as ogres.. I mean trolls. Or... you mean trolls?

All I am saying is, I don't quite get that. Though, since I haven't been banned, I'm probably just... No, I think I am right to be confused. Though, too, there are trolls and then there are unwanted trolls?

Sincerely,
So Confused

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 11:22 AM  

@50 JaimeInTexas

Thanks to you for Vox Popoli and thanks to your helpers.

It will be a sad day indeed if VP ever comes to an end.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet October 28, 2015 11:23 AM  

Why anonymity?

It goes like this: this blog is like the bar at the edge of town for me. I go in, have some drinks, get some perspective on life, and then go. That is its function.

I don't actually care of anyone knows who I am, but once I walk out the door, I usually simply want to be left alone. Whatever maximizes the chances of the interaction ending when I leave will be preferred.

It has nothing to do with caring at all if anyone I know in real life knows what my views or opinions are.

OpenID dantealiegri October 28, 2015 11:24 AM  

Ars Technica : "real experts" .. who, journalists?

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 October 28, 2015 11:24 AM  

In related news, compassionate cuckservative John Kasich yells "What is wrong with you conservatives? I have people skills!"
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/john-kasich-critiques-gop-2016-candidates-215233

When even the conservatives on Politico are calling you out for being soft you know it's bad.

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 11:26 AM  

"Sincerely,
So Confused"

He means you're Doom. Be Doom. Don't put on another name and start acting like someone else for the sake of attention or just to screw with people.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 28, 2015 11:30 AM  

When they know you are even more awesome in person than online, and therefore even more dangerous, the System just about guarantees your anonymity.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 11:30 AM  

"Don't put on another name and start acting like someone else for the sake of attention or just to screw with people."

Considering the lengths to which some trolls have gone around here, (Spooner, GG, Tad, etc.) I am surprised that we haven't seen more people hi-jack handles around here.

OpenID Jack Amok October 28, 2015 11:31 AM  

The news outlet I follow for my home town decided to create a three-level comment section after complaints from some thin-skinned readers. They went with a "choose your own adventure" model:

The Country Club - heavily moderated, registration (FB, Google or Twitter) required, civil behavior, "don't be a jerk".

Thunderdome - no registration needed, mostly unmoderated. "don’t come crying to us! You chose your path, you beautiful Visigoth."

Then, just for completeness, there's Zen Silence: "Nothingness. No rules. No strife. Because no comments. Be at one with the post."

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 28, 2015 11:38 AM  

I always thought the chaps at Zero Hedge had a solid explanation for why anonymity is key:

http://www.zerohedge.com/content/zero-hedge-manifesto

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2015 11:41 AM  

@Nate
He means you're Doom. Be Doom. Don't put on another name and start acting like someone else for the sake of attention or just to screw with people.

I think part of it what Vox said is making a point to drop the Gammatude, as well, since it involves (a lot of) worrying and concern about what other people might possibly think of you.

Anonymous Wald October 28, 2015 11:44 AM  

Should I comment on future sections or past articles - I'll always leave Wald at the end of a message.

Wald

Blogger Marie October 28, 2015 11:46 AM  

"I never understood why people thought they had any business behaving online in a way they would not do in person.

But then, I'm Very Old School."

A number of people behave differently in a mob than they do on their own. It is the same principle.

The only reason you see it more on the internet is because being a troll is much safer than holding a pitchfork and torch.

Blogger Alexander October 28, 2015 11:47 AM  

@71

Or people taking popular names and changing them slightly and claiming no rule broken! Nyah nyah nyah whattda mean I can't post as Nate. or Cail Corisheu? Fascist!

In your case it won't be an issue, because a commenter "Rabbit B" who suddenly spewed venom would actually be quite funny, so no danger of it actually happening.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 28, 2015 11:49 AM  

"I never understood why people thought they had any business behaving online in a way they would not do in person.

But then, I'm Very Old School.
"

Same here. What you see is what you get IRL. Maybe even more so.

Blogger Alexander October 28, 2015 11:49 AM  

Psh, "Old School"

Old School would be lamenting that people act differently when there's no risk of being called out for pistols at dawn.

Anonymous A Visitor October 28, 2015 11:51 AM  

Thanks for turning them back on, Vox! Read several articles in past weeks I would've commented on had Name still been an option. Thanks to all the moderators as well.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 28, 2015 11:52 AM  

"pistols at dawn"

I remember in the early days of the Interwebz in the mid-90s or so, this would happen frequently in the AOL chat rooms. Some jewish douche even reported me to AOL for a remark I made. I got a call from an annoyed AOL rep who politely requested I refrain from making such comments.

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 11:54 AM  

"Old School would be lamenting that people act differently when there's no risk of being called out for pistols at dawn."

You're not old school. Old School was even worse. in the old days... when we saw a chick on the net... we just assumed it was a dude pretending to be a chick.

Anonymous Viidad October 28, 2015 11:54 AM  

Ahh.... it's good to be back.

Blogger Lulabelle October 28, 2015 11:59 AM  

"28. Daniel Babylon October 28, 2015 9:45 AM

Why is anonymity important in this blog? If you don't want your G+ friends knowing you are conservative you could just create a second account or something. Maybe I'm not seeing something but I can't understand the point of anonymity."

So, Babylon is your real last name? That's interesting.

Anonymous Bob Dobbs October 28, 2015 11:59 AM  

from "The Left’s War on Comment Sections"

The Pacific Standard: “Even if [comments sections] aren’t vile and psychologically damaging, most of them aren’t worth your time.” Brooklyn Magazine: “Most comment sections are vats of poison, filled with grammatically questionable rants at best and violent hate speech at worst.” The Atlantic: “Online comments are often ignorant, racist, sexist, threatening, or otherwise worthless. But you knew that already.”

gosh... oh my... flattery will get you everywhere!

Blogger The Other Robot October 28, 2015 12:00 PM  

You're not old school. Old School was even worse. in the old days... when we saw a chick on the net... we just assumed it was a dude pretending to be a chick.

Heh. When I see chicks pretending to be astronauts I just assume they are guys pretending to be chicks pretending to be astronauts.

Blogger Shimshon October 28, 2015 12:02 PM  

Vox, you're clearly getting soft in your old age.

Please do not comment as "Anonymous".

What's this "please"?!

Anonymous IndecisiveEvidence October 28, 2015 12:03 PM  

Good to be back. Just want to say thanks for the rhetoric lesson. I know it's off topic but it is such a huge sea change for me I am still practicing trying to understand the language through fights with dumb people on forums. It is like discovering a new color. I have not had such a complete paradigm shift in years.

Anonymous Cash October 28, 2015 12:04 PM  

Sweet. Back with my old name.

@81 Yeah I just has some crazy Jew go after me on an industry forum for saying a joke about a Jew who is a scam artist in our industry. The guy just wouldn't give it up.

Blogger Marie October 28, 2015 12:05 PM  

"....violent hate speech...."

Awww Sugar, are you scared of lil ol' me and my keyboard? That's just precious.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 12:09 PM  

"What's this "please"?!"

Yeah . . . like an Israeli saying "Excuse me." :)

OpenID Jack Amok October 28, 2015 12:10 PM  

Anonymity is important because SJWs aggressively try to destroy the jobs, careers, families and reputations of people who have opinions they disagree with. Anonymity allows people who are not interested in risking those things to participate.

SJWs and leftists in general win their victories most often by convincing decent people not to participate. They make public life as vile, corrupt, and unpleasant as possible and then revel in the filth. Anonymity combats that tactic.

Blogger Michael Banak October 28, 2015 12:12 PM  

Hey, Vox Day.

Please clarify what you mean by the following:

Respect and support that by refraining
from ... "just having fun",
from "making a point",
from "playing a role".

I sincerely want to respect your space. The items you placed in quotes, above, seem innocuous to me. Maybe there is a particular style you want to avoid.

I usually check your blog several times a day, among my 8-busiest hits. But I comment only on occasion. Does that fall under the warning you post?

Maybe you answered my question in the 90 comments before mine. I better check that.

Most sincerely,
MB


Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 12:19 PM  

"just having fun", aka. Porky

"making a point", aka. Tiny Tim

""playing a role". aka. Spooner

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 12:19 PM  

" But I comment only on occasion. Does that fall under the warning you post?"


Why? Why is this so hard?

Anonymous Eric Ashley October 28, 2015 12:20 PM  

Being too lazy to register as I've been to others' registrations, I'm pleased to see registering gone. I've been lurking, and i will probably comment again, but not as often as before i expect.

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 12:20 PM  

"""playing a role". aka. Spooner "

Spooner.

No Loki.

Loki was awesome.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet October 28, 2015 12:24 PM  

Why? Why is this so hard?

I loled

Anonymous kfg October 28, 2015 12:32 PM  

"it's always been my intention to return to unregistered commenting. Which I am doing so now."

Thank you.

"However, I would strongly recommend continuing to comment with a registered name as any attempts to abuse the more open system will be met with an immediate response . . ."

I survived this blackout, but I will give the idea some consideration.

Anonymous Homesteader October 28, 2015 12:32 PM  

RE anonymity:

I come here to learn, and for the knowledge that there are others like me. "The few, the proud, the K selected").

That being said, I work in a very r-selected workplace. Until I finish my fuck-you fund, circumspection is prudent.

I am not alone in this.

Blogger DadOfTen October 28, 2015 12:36 PM  

One of the most vicious comment rolls I have ever seen actually got the commenters condemned to death. But they still did it with their real names. It is called "The Declaration Of Independence".

Blogger Daniel October 28, 2015 12:36 PM  

Political extremists do not have the strongest reactions to contrary comments.

Leftists do. Extremists on the right are more prone to fits of laughter at the epileptic bouts of stupidity, though, so I guess that could be considered "strong".

Blogger Sevron October 28, 2015 12:47 PM  

I read Ars from the beginning, and was pretty gutted when they went full SJW. They used to promote the comment section, and even hired a writer or two from the commenters. What's really messed up is the same people are in charge over there, so I don't know what happened. Did they always suffer from terminal SJWism but hid it, or did they change? I guess we'll never know.

Blogger VFM 188 October 28, 2015 12:48 PM  

Why? Why is this so hard?

Because it's a warning from Vox, Nate, and people don't want to violate his rules. Vox is setting parameters for participation on this blog, and it is entirely proper for him to do so, since he owns the blog and has the right to sent any rules or no rules at all (private property and all that).

The larger question is why can't you and others here see why entirely sincere people might ask for clarification (whereupon they are then of course ridiculed for asking). Why is that so hard to understand?

Blogger Noah B #120 October 28, 2015 12:50 PM  

Journalists who write leftist propaganda tend to be highly social and heavily influenced by the opinions of others, even if those opinions are sharply different from their own. It's not that differing opinions are likely to change their minds, but the mere existence of a differing opinion is enough to cause them extreme emotional distress. Cognitive dissonance is a practiced art to them and requires them to intentionally avoid logic and reason in order to maintain their belief system.

SJWs often claim to be "triggered" by unpleasant information or arguments, and I believe this claim should be taken at face value. They simply don't know how to react to opposing viewpoints other than with fear and rage.

A well placed comment can have a profound effect on author who doesn't even seem to be paying attention.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 12:54 PM  

"The larger question is why can't you and others here see why entirely sincere people might ask for clarification (whereupon they are then of course ridiculed for asking).'

They could send Vox and email and be ridiculed in private.

Blogger Salt October 28, 2015 12:56 PM  

But they still did it with their real names. It is called "The Declaration Of Independence".

Don't forget about the earlier papers, signed Publius.

Blogger Salt October 28, 2015 12:59 PM  

@95

Nate, perhaps Vox needs another rule set, done in common-core speak.

Blogger Marie October 28, 2015 1:02 PM  

@105

I don't pay that much attention but it seems Vox typically gives a warning or expresses his displeasure before he deletes comments. Maybe that hasn't always been his policy but the need for clarification seems a little odd to me.

Anonymous kfg October 28, 2015 1:03 PM  

Publius published after the Treaty of Paris.

Blogger Marie October 28, 2015 1:04 PM  

"But they still did it with their real names. It is called "The Declaration Of Independence""

Some of those signatures are hard to read. Bad penmanship = the first anonymous commentors

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 1:05 PM  

"The larger question is why can't you and others here see why entirely sincere people might ask for clarification"

This actually is a question I've asked myself. Why are more and more people having difficultly understanding simple basic communication. Why is clarification required more and more often?

The answer is fairly disturbing. Austism in all of its forms and across its whole spectrum is now so common that communication is getting very difficult.

And that's why you need clarification.

Because your broken. socially speaking you're a retard. Basic thinks that most people understand instinctively... must be spelled out to you. Because you're broken.

Unfortunately the gap between the majority and the retards is shrinking at an alarming rate.

Perhaps the train is not so fine.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 1:06 PM  

"Bad penmanship = the first anonymous commentors"

'John Hancock = Nate'?

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 1:07 PM  

"Nate, perhaps Vox needs another rule set, done in common-core speak."

That's just it... I thought this was profoundly dumbed down. And they still don't get it.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 1:11 PM  

"Austism in all of its forms and across its whole spectrum is now so common that communication is getting very difficult."

Yes. What we've got here, is a failure to communicate . . . More and more people just need to get their minds right, that's all. Then again, some people you just can't reach.

Blogger Markku October 28, 2015 1:13 PM  

If these mean nothing to you: "just having fun", from "making a point", from "playing a role"

Then, you almost certainly are not in violation of them, and can ignore them.

If these mean nothing to you:

Trolling, ... responding to the occasional troll

Then your intelligence is too low, and you might want to opt for some other forum.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 1:13 PM  

When I see chicks pretending to be astronauts I just assume they are guys pretending to be chicks pretending to be astronauts.

For a while, I was seriously starting to think all modern-day female computer programmers were actually Y-chromosome-equipped. I did finally find a couple of exceptions, but I'm still wondering if the real women are outnumbered by the trannies and drag queens.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 1:14 PM  

@54,

Oddly enough, Cail Corishev is also a pseudonym; my real name is Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus.

Anonymous Malcolm October 28, 2015 1:16 PM  

It was strange to see only 30-40 comments on one of Vox's posts. Good to see unregistered comments have returned.

Anonymous kfg October 28, 2015 1:22 PM  

Having already been doxxed a time or two, I suppose there is no particular harm in noting that I post under my legal mark.

Registering is a separate issue. I remain locked out of my YouTube account over my refusal to register a Google account. For my own reasons I simply don't want one.

Blogger Krul October 28, 2015 1:23 PM  

@93 Michael Banak - "Respect and support that by refraining
from ... "just having fun",
from "making a point",
from "playing a role".

I sincerely want to respect your space. The items you placed in quotes, above, seem innocuous to me."


They're in quotes because they're the rationalizations routinely offered by trolls after being called out. If you're called out and you have the urge to respond with an obsequious "Aww I was just kidding. Can't you take a joke?" or something like it, you're wrong and you know it. Hence you're intentionally wasting the time of those who want to discuss, or just read comments about, the topic at hand.

Anonymous BoysMom October 28, 2015 1:27 PM  

To automatthew: I've been reading on my android lately in chrome: there are no comment numbers shown there.

I'm glad to see open comments back. Not that I have much to say ever that someone else hasn't already said better.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 1:33 PM  

The larger question is why can't you and others here see why entirely sincere people might ask for clarification

Because usually we don't believe they're sincere -- either because they ask in an obvious "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" way like the guy who asked who is beyond criticism, or because we can't believe anyone capable of working a keyboard is that dumb.

And many times it comes off as trying to pick holes in the rules, like when Mom says to stay out of the cookie jar, so the kid starts questioning what that really means ("Does that count if the cookies are in a tupperware container? It's not a JAR!") and then tries to build a cookie-retrieval robot to get the cookies for him so he's never technically in the jar himself. It's not cute unless you're four years old.

Blogger Marie October 28, 2015 1:43 PM  

"This actually is a question I've asked myself. Why are more and more people having difficultly understanding simple basic communication. Why is clarification required more and more often?"

Another reason is public education has spent decades teaching people not to trust their instincts and get outside validation for their thoughts/behaviors.

Part of being a kid is learning how to survive being wrong or embarrassed with grace and surviving those things builds confidence. So many kids got protected from those things they never learned how to cope. Now they are adults with careers and families, the stakes are too high to risk being wrong. Better to check, double-check and triple-check.

That might not be what is motivating the people here but I'm sure the whole "Let's make sure we are all on board" culture isn't helping things.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2015 1:44 PM  

> The great thing about attaching a comments section via a promoted plugin (vs. a separate discussion site like Reddit) is that it having a conservative/right-wing friendly comments section attached to NYT articles would really really REALLY piss off the NYT.

Yes, it would. So much that they would probably have their lawyers "have a talk with you". Of course, if you do it correctly, they may not be able to find you to do so.

> Vox, in the interests of openness and honesty, I feel like I need to tell you that "Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus" is not my real name, but is, instead, a pseudonym.

What??? Another illusion shattered. Next you'll be telling me Vox isn't his real name. :)

> The larger question is why can't you and others here see why entirely sincere people might ask for clarification (whereupon they are then of course ridiculed for asking). Why is that so hard to understand?

Familiarity. We've been here through the Beezle's, the Bearded Spock's, the Tad's. the Porky's, the Tiny Tim's, etc. We know what he means. It's sometimes hard to remember that others may not. Though I don't think playing a role meant Spooner, but rather the poster who frequently used aliases, who's most common alias I've forgotten at the moment.

Blogger Krul October 28, 2015 1:47 PM  

@126 James Dixon - "Though I don't think playing a role meant Spooner, but rather the poster who frequently used aliases, who's most common alias I've forgotten at the moment."

Scooby was my first thought.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2015 1:49 PM  

> To automatthew: I've been reading on my android lately in chrome: there are no comment numbers shown there.

The site is sending you the mobile device version. Try setting the ending of the link to m=0 instead of m=1. That was discussed in a thread back when the numbering was turned on.

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2015 1:50 PM  

> Scooby was my first thought.

That's the one. Thanks.

Blogger VFM 188 October 28, 2015 1:52 PM  

The answer is fairly disturbing. Autism in all of its forms and across its whole spectrum is now so common that communication is getting very difficult. And that's why you need clarification. Because your broken. socially speaking you're a retard. Basic thinks that most people understand instinctively... must be spelled out to you. Because you're broken.

Geez Nate, don't look at me! Go after Michael Banak at #93 above! Insincere...or autistic? (Eyes narrowing.) Or could he be feigning autism? (Looking around stealthily.) Others here, too. How dare they ask such obviously stupid questions!

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2015 1:59 PM  

@119
Oddly enough, Cail Corishev is also a pseudonym; my real name is Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus.

I am also Spartacus.

Anonymous BigGaySteve October 28, 2015 1:59 PM  

female computer programmers ...I'm still wondering if the real women are outnumbered by the trannies and drag queens

By most definitions of real women they most certainly are.


Oddly enough, Cail Corishev is also a pseudonym; my real name is Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus.

Oddly enough BigGaySteve is also a pseudonym; my real name is Tim's ex boyfriend, he really is Tiny.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 2:06 PM  

" . . . get outside validation for their thoughts/behaviors."

Invalidation, challenging, disagreeing with the ideas, thoughts and behavior of others = personal effrontery that melt the precious snowflakes and cause the arrogant to lash out and double down.

" . . . the stakes are too high to risk being wrong. Better to check, double-check and triple-check."

Which, ironically, just makes you look worse and more idiotic than conceding the fact. But, image is everything.

Anonymous BoysMom October 28, 2015 2:06 PM  

Thank you, Mr. Dixon.

Blogger VFM 188 October 28, 2015 2:07 PM  

And, lest we forget...He is Groot.

No pseudonym for him either!

Blogger VD October 28, 2015 2:07 PM  

What's this "please"?!

My English inheritance. My friends all knew that extreme civility was a very, very bad sign.

Respect and support that by refraining
from ... "just having fun",
from "making a point",
from "playing a role".

I sincerely want to respect your space. The items you placed in quotes, above, seem innocuous to me. Maybe there is a particular style you want to avoid.


I don't care they seem innocuous to you. If your prospective comment is intended to "just have fun", "to make a point" by way of being silly or otherwise disingenuous, or if you are "playing a role" that does not actually reflect your actual thoughts, then do not post it here. We have had previous commenters who annoyed everyone and those were among their excuses.

I usually check your blog several times a day, among my 8-busiest hits. But I comment only on occasion. Does that fall under the warning you post?

Yes. If you have something to say, then say it. If you are simply seeking attention or are attempting to work out your psychological issues through communication, this is not the correct venue.

Blogger VD October 28, 2015 2:11 PM  

It may help to understand that I am a Sigma. If you are a Gamma, I tend to naturally dislike the way you communicate. The more clever and witty and snarky you believe yourself to be, the tighter the choke-chain is going to be. I really, really dislike passive-aggressive comments, particularly in men. I believe in an ideal world, all passive-aggressive snark would be met with a punch in the face by the nearest passerby who happened to hear it.

Just say what you think. It's really okay to do that. Stop trying to score imaginary points in a nonexistent game that no one else is playing and try communicating directly. Here, it is actually less likely to get you in trouble.

Blogger Lovekraft October 28, 2015 2:15 PM  

This site is the closest I have seen that resembles a military unit - of the internet. Authority, structure, predictability and unity of purpose is nectar to a man's soul.

Anonymous Jay Will October 28, 2015 2:20 PM  

@114

"And they still don't get it"

Not quite getting it is a tactic for an attempt to annoy or get attention. Just enough "not getting it" that it might be bought that you are genuine. Wrong blog to try it on I'd say. The more subtle you are the harder it is to discern whether someone really doesn't understand or is faking it to waste your time.

Anonymous kfg October 28, 2015 2:29 PM  

BGS: "By most definitions of real women they most certainly are."

Interesting. I viewed it from the other angle, by most definitions of computer programmer they certainly are.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 2:36 PM  

Just say what you think. It's really okay to do that. Stop trying to score imaginary points in a nonexistent game that no one else is playing and try communicating directly. Here, it is actually less likely to get you in trouble.

Which is precisely why this place is a sanctuary.

Anonymous Viidad October 28, 2015 2:41 PM  

VFM 188, are you a middle-school girl?

How did you get past Malwyn?

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 28, 2015 3:35 PM  

Ah, Vox blogs to not email

Blogger ScuzzaMan October 28, 2015 3:48 PM  

The other point regarding comments sections is that the moderator class is overrun with SJW's. It is inherent in their authoritarian impulses, and their complete inability to resist them, that they are attracted to such positions of minor power where they get to abuse the power delegated to them and frustrate the civic intentions of their moral and intellectual betters, while lying to themselves and everyone else about what they are doing and why.

And their characteristic dishonesty serves their fascist corporate-politico overlords very well.

For example, the Comment is Free section of the Guardian, the most risibly Orwellian named and operated comments section in Britain, if not in the world, runs on the basis of "Community Standards". These rules have all the hallmarks of the worst possible regulations;

- they give wide 'discretionary' powers to people with no brain or spine,
- they are ambiguous where they are not outright contradictory
- there was no input from the actual commentariat, i.e. the community, whatsoever in their construction. They are utterly the spawn of the fascist managerial class
- they are totally and consistently opposed to only one thing; the very liberal ideal for which the Guardian claims to stand.

Consequently, the comment sections of the Grauniad are a loathsome cesspit of fawning dementia from which any sane and civilised person recoils in disgust.

Blogger Rusty Fife October 28, 2015 3:54 PM  

@142 JaimeInTexas,

Are you up for a Boonedoggle? I might be in your area this weekend.

Email rusty dot fife at reagan dot com

Rusty Fife

Anonymous patrick kelly October 28, 2015 3:59 PM  

"from ... "just having fun",
from "making a point",
from "playing a role"."

Crap, I've obviously been doing it wrong...thought I was always having fun, making a point, and playing a role......I'm such a failure...oh the feelzbadz.....

Blogger VFM 188 October 28, 2015 4:00 PM  

Offended, Viidad? Good. I often write wry humor needling people who present themselves as hot shit and freely insult others. I have also objected in the past to piling on, endless snarking, and gratuitous insults. Yet Vox has pretty much allowed things to play out, wisely I think. It's his blog, after all (appears to be tightening up lately, though). Regarding your question: Why? Are you a girl too?

Blogger VFM 188 October 28, 2015 4:07 PM  

I'm sorry, but this is just having fun. ScuzzaMan said: The comment sections of the Grauniad are a loathsome cesspit of fawning dementia from which any sane and civilised person recoils in disgust.

ScuzzaMan, why all this beating around the bush? Can't you just come out and clearly tell us what you think? :--)

Anonymous Alexander October 28, 2015 4:17 PM  

Viidad may not have been around in the comments for a while due to google login, but if you're under the impression that he's a newbie trying to cut his teeth among the ilk for the first time...

/popcorn

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 4:21 PM  

Viidad may not have been around in the comments for a while due to google login, but if you're under the impression that he's a newbie trying to cut his teeth among the ilk for the first time...

I love the smell of compost in the morning.

/more popcorn

(Until today I also had suspected that VFM 188 had y-chromosome. Go figure.)

/more popcorn

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan October 28, 2015 4:30 PM  

Markku, your sense of humour is sometimes very opaque, and other times...makes me laugh out lout for a minute in a full restaurant.

Blogger automatthew October 28, 2015 4:31 PM  

Anonymous: Why refrain from "making a point?" What is the point of posting if not to make a point? Beating around the bush? Or is "making a point" code for something else? That would explain the quotation marks.

1. Pick a name. Also, learn to read. It says Please do not comment as "Anonymous" right above the comment box.

2. Vox's statement was "high context" in the sociological sense; it was aimed at the people who know what he's talking about. Primarily these are, as has been explained, trolls and various other misfits. The Ilk, meaning those who regularly read the comments here, also understood it.

3. Your solipsism is showing when you read a high context statement that you don't understand and automatically wonder if it might apply to you.

Blogger Dago October 28, 2015 4:33 PM  

Real or fake Graperapem this is a decent trollage

Blogger Dago October 28, 2015 4:37 PM  

Rabbi B
+1

Blogger automatthew October 28, 2015 4:37 PM  

The other point regarding comments sections is that the moderator class is overrun with SJW's. It is inherent in their authoritarian impulses, and their complete inability to resist them, that they are attracted to such positions of minor power where they get to abuse the power delegated to them and frustrate the civic intentions of their moral and intellectual betters, while lying to themselves and everyone else about what they are doing and why.

That you find exactly the opposite here explains some of the success of the community. The mods are motivated by duty and expedience, rather than power.

Blogger automatthew October 28, 2015 4:41 PM  

Offended, Viidad? Good. I often write wry humor needling people who present themselves as hot shit and freely insult others.

Do you have a newsletter? Sign me right the fuck up.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 4:47 PM  

"The mods are motivated by duty and expedience, rather than power."

And they don't care.

Blogger Student in Blue October 28, 2015 4:49 PM  

@VFM 188
I'm sorry, but this is just having fun.

Your "fun" involves snarking and posturing in that Mean Girls way. It's not cute.

Blogger Markku October 28, 2015 4:53 PM  

I'm sorry, but this is just having fun.

Quoting Vox:

Respect and support that by refraining from trolling, from "just having fun", from "making a point", from "playing a role", and just as importantly, from responding to the occasional troll.

Sounds like my moderator obligations are required again.

Blogger Groot October 28, 2015 4:54 PM  

@121. Krul and @125. James Dixon, thanks for answering in comprehensible English. It's not an absence of intelligence if you don't get an inside joke. It's understandable if people get jumpy when what sounds like the world's most nebulous Code of Conduct gets posted.

If you've been posting comments here for ten years, it's like Italians thinking they're still speaking Latin. But the language you're speaking has changed. You think you're saying "I am Groot," but what comes out is "It's a-me, Mario."

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan October 28, 2015 4:57 PM  

Alexander,
Thank you. You and I should start a new movement. Bring back duelling. I'd do it on my own but our inevitable fallout will make it far more successful.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 4:58 PM  

I have also objected in the past to piling on, endless snarking, and gratuitous insults.

Do you have a newsletter? Sign me right the fuck up.

Oh, automatthew, my ears, my ears . .

Blogger Cail Corishev October 28, 2015 4:58 PM  

Why refrain from "making a point?" What is the point of posting if not to make a point?

Now we see the asspie inherent in the system.

Someone said make the rules so simple they can't be misunderstood. Impossible. If you try to make them complex enough to cover every situation, the asspie will want clarification on every line item. If you try to simplify them to the bare essentials, he will demand that you explain how those core concepts apply to innumerable hypothetical situations. You will never, ever create a ruleset that he can't turn into his own presentation of Asspie Nitpick Theater.

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan October 28, 2015 5:05 PM  

Rabbi BOctober 28, 2015 12:09 PM
"What's this "please"?!"

Yeah . . . like an Israeli saying "Excuse me." :)


You know...I just had a moment of satori
I think I have had to punch a lot more people in real life than Vox as a result of trusting my grandmother's advice that politeness is free.
A damn lie!

Anonymous Homesteader October 28, 2015 5:06 PM  

Ah. Female Solipsism. Rollo would nod knowingly.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 28, 2015 5:06 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger automatthew October 28, 2015 5:09 PM  

Groot, et al.

If you personally haven't been warned by Vox or a moderator, in reference to a specific comment, explicitly describing the problem is, you're in no danger.

Markku and I may be choleric, but we follow Vox's rules assiduously.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 28, 2015 5:09 PM  

@144 As in a fishing expedition? I am watching the winds forecast. Louis Bait Camp has fishing tourney. I might make it to the camp but not be part of the tourney.

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan October 28, 2015 5:09 PM  

Nate,
You should know why it's so hard. You're close to hus generation. Assuming chicks on the net were guys...I meant pistols at dawn that shoot bullets dammit. And that only for the fags cause men pick rapiers.

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 5:15 PM  

"Offended, Viidad? Good. '

He's not offended. He thinks you talk like a teenaged girl.

In fact many of us do.

Blogger automatthew October 28, 2015 5:26 PM  

In fact many of us do.

That, or withered ovaries.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 28, 2015 5:32 PM  

@144 I sent you an email, BTW.

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan October 28, 2015 5:34 PM  

VFM 188
Shut the fuck up.
Also,
We don't care.

Blogger VD October 28, 2015 5:41 PM  

Offended, Viidad? Good. I often write wry humor needling people who present themselves as hot shit and freely insult others. I have also objected in the past to piling on, endless snarking, and gratuitous insults.

Knock off the attention-seeking and annoying behavior. Nobody thinks you're funny. This is exactly the sort of Gamma behavior you need to grow out of. It does not serve you well, here or anywhere else.

Anonymous Giuseppe The Kurgan October 28, 2015 5:42 PM  

I believe in an ideal world, all passive-aggressive snark would be met with a punch in the face by the nearest passerby who happened to hear it.

Amen.

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 5:46 PM  

"And that only for the fags cause men pick rapiers."

Rapiers are gay.

Men use bastard swords.

Blogger Giuseppe The Kurgan October 28, 2015 5:53 PM  

Nate,
you're welcome to try your bastard sword against my rapier.
Men win swordfights.
Also...I fenced at international level.
You may want to chose your pink glock.

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 5:59 PM  

"Also...I fenced at international level.
You may want to chose pink glock."

I never picked you for a foppish little dancer Kurgan.... given your size though... I may indeed go with the Glock. Its the only 10mm I have... and I'm not sure .40 would penetrate that skull of yours.

Anonymous BGS October 28, 2015 6:02 PM  

"And that only for the fags cause men pick rapiers." Rapiers are gay. Men use bastard swords.

I don't own a rapier, but I own several swords, daggers. Along with 2 flails and some axes. I wonder if GRRM owns a raper?

Blogger VFM 188 October 28, 2015 6:02 PM  

Okay, Vox. All the best to you all.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 6:09 PM  

@178 VFM 188

Okay, Vox. All the best to you all.

Blogger Groot October 28, 2015 6:19 PM  

@165. automatthew:

I appreciate that, but I'm just saying that you guys might be oblivious to the ambiguity®. I've been commenting here about 3 months, so if Vox said, thou shalt not be like Porky or Tiny Tim, I would completely understand. But somebody even newer would read, Don't Stammer and Don't Tiptoe Through Tulips.

"I believe in an ideal world, all passive-aggressive snark would be met with a punch in the face by the nearest passerby who happened to hear it."

Only an Alpha pulls this off. You have to have your boys. One time, I̶ a tree I know elbowed such a weasel in the temple. He staggered up, sputtering about lawsuits. I̶ This tree I know said, "but I have a room full of witnesses that says you hit me first." Everybody nodded. (Of course I would never do such a thing n̶o̶w̶a̶d̶a̶y̶s̶.)

Come to think of it, IRL I am actually more aggressive in person. I come here for the entertainment. I'm not trying to get anything done.

Blogger Rabbi B October 28, 2015 6:27 PM  

"Respect and support that by refraining from trolling, from "just having fun", from "making a point", from "playing a role""

The OP can be summed up in a Biblical principle:

Like a maniac shooting
flaming arrows of death

is one who deceives their neighbor
and says, “I was only joking!”


- Proverbs 26

Apparently, Solomon had his fair share of run-ins with trolls in his day.

Blogger Doom October 28, 2015 6:28 PM  

Nate,

Ah, thanks. Cool. I can't play someone else. Hell, can't play myself. I just am. Don't have to like it or not, or give a shit how others take it. Thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense, put that way.

Student in Blue,

Hmm? Don't care what you think, or even Vox. Just trying to figure some things out. If I am going to break a rule, I like to know I am doing it, and maybe by doing so, how to... lawyer my way through. Or at least know why I am being banned. *punch on the nose*

Blogger automatthew October 28, 2015 6:32 PM  

It's a shame these things need to be said at all, Groot. And it's not going to change, because the principals are all doing things they'd rather be doing than riding herd on comments.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 28, 2015 6:35 PM  

Bastard sword v. rapier

Is that with or without armor?

Blogger Nate October 28, 2015 6:49 PM  

"Is that with or without armor?"

Where's my chimichanga?

Blogger Rusty Fife October 28, 2015 7:35 PM  

@170 JaimeInTexas

Fishing? Isn't there another gully washer this weekend?

Rusty

Blogger Rusty Fife October 28, 2015 7:37 PM  

@170 JaimeInTexas

Fishing? Isn't there another gully washer this weekend?

Rusty

Blogger James Dixon October 28, 2015 7:55 PM  

> I may indeed go with the Glock. Its the only 10mm I have.

Did you borrow it from Franks?

Blogger Were-Puppy October 28, 2015 8:15 PM  

@40 Roundtine
They hate the global warming comments more than anything.
---

I think there is a big stupid UN global warming conference coming up pretty soon. I have heard somewhere that the entire "eating red meat causes cancer" was just a thing to prop up the dumb meeting.

Blogger Michael Banak October 28, 2015 8:19 PM  

I acknowledge your rebound, VD.

Everyone has an identity to fulfill. But if either of us is Alpha/Gamma more than we are a Christian, then we are not Christian. Some of your earlier essays, the ones you did for WND, caught my attention, were spot-on and thought-provoking. Finding you here still results in frequent gems. I'm sure you can handle occasional disagreement and inquiries for clarification. Moses and Abraham disagreed and sought clarification, even in the face of direct revelation. I can too.

I will not be apologizing for being polite. It has benefited me greatly, especially when I have to blow my top for something important - especially in the business environment, where anything short of excellence is crushed.

Referring to your 3-tiered image of faithful readers, I am in the first group listed. The second group turns my insides into water, and the third group, well ... I don't take orders just like that.

Cheers!

Blogger Were-Puppy October 28, 2015 8:36 PM  

77. Alexander October 28, 2015 11:47 AM
@71

Or people taking popular names and changing them slightly and claiming no rule broken! Nyah nyah nyah whattda mean I can't post as Nate. or Cail Corisheu? Fascist!

In your case it won't be an issue, because a commenter "Rabbit B" who suddenly spewed venom would actually be quite funny, so no danger of it actually happening.
---

Hey, I just thought of Rabbit B about 2 comments before reading yours :P

Blogger Were-Puppy October 28, 2015 8:39 PM  

@86 The Other Robot
You're not old school. Old School was even worse. in the old days... when we saw a chick on the net... we just assumed it was a dude pretending to be a chick.

Heh. When I see chicks pretending to be astronauts I just assume they are guys pretending to be chicks pretending to be astronauts.
----

I dream that they get the Planet of the Apes treatment when they return.

Anonymous Viidad October 28, 2015 8:44 PM  

What? I go away for a few hours and everyone cleans up while I'm gone?

And, like Nate said... "offended?"

Heh. No. Though I admit, 188's response was much funnier than whatever she intended as "wry humor."

Blogger Were-Puppy October 28, 2015 8:44 PM  

@90 Marie
Awww Sugar, are you scared of lil ol' me and my keyboard? That's just precious.
---

Are you related to this kid?

Blogger Were-Puppy October 28, 2015 9:10 PM  

@163 Homesteader
Ah. Female Solipsism. Rollo would nod knowingly.
---

Is this a subtle reference to Aunt Esther and Donna?

Anonymous Anonymous October 28, 2015 10:28 PM  

Rabbi B: Please do not give up on quoting Proverbs. God spits out the lukewarm, and the lukewarm don't get excited about proverbs; they should, but they don't. Jeremiah the warrior prophet (all Levites were warriors, they were trained to defend to the death the temple) wrote a good pair of books, too, but it is Proverbs that is the Basic Training that so many are in need of. - Delta Company Red Dogs.

Anonymous Phil Mann October 28, 2015 10:57 PM  

Test

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