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Thursday, October 01, 2015

The end of the 1st Amendment

Don't think that the government is going to protect you from the global jihad. Not only is the US government resolutely refusing to go to war with ISIS, but it is actively importing the terrorists and settling them in your cities. This detailed recounting of the attack on the Westgate Mall is sobering indeed.
On Saturday, Sept. 21, 2013, the Somali militant group al-Shabab carried out an assault on Kenya’s Westgate Mall in one of the worst terrorist attacks in the country’s history. A group of young gunmen stalked the halls and stores of the upscale Nairobi shopping center, and methodically murdered at least 67 people. News of the attack seized the world’s attention, dominating international media coverage for days.

But much of that reporting was confused and contradictory, mirroring the litany of false and misleading statements made by Kenyan authorities. There were between 10 and 15 gunmen, the interior minister said. Two or three of them were Americans, said another cabinet minister. Together they took hostages, used heavy explosives, and pulled off a three-day siege, according to other government sources. Except none of these things were true.

Far from a dramatic three-day standoff, the assault on the Westgate Mall lasted only a few hours, almost all of it taking place before Kenyan security forces even entered the building. When they finally did, it was only to shoot at one another before going on an armed looting spree that resulted in the collapse of the rear of the building, destroyed with a rocket-propelled grenade. And there were only four gunmen, all of whom were buried in the rubble, along with much of the forensic evidence.

During the roughly three-and-a-half hours that the killers were loose in the mall, there was virtually no organized government response. But while Kenyan officials prevaricated, an unlikely coalition of licensed civilian gun owners and brave, resourceful individual police officers took it upon themselves to mount a rescue effort. Pieced together over 10 months from more than three dozen interviews with survivors, first responders, security officers, and investigators, the following account brings their story to life for the first time since the horrific terrorist attack occurred exactly two years ago.
I impression that the war in the USA will start when an attack of similar scale takes place in the USA and Americans begin to respond in kind despite the best efforts of the federal government to defend their attackers. There is no assimilation taking place; observe that one of the four Somalis involved in the attack grew up in Norway.

The First Amendment will be rejected by the American public long before the Second. As it has been said, the Constitution is not a suicide pact and few Americans will stand by freedom of religion when doing so jeopardizes their right to life, liberty, and happiness. Between the Scylla of godless pedophiles and the Charybdis of Sharia, the USA is no longer a society fit for a First Amendment.

After the Breivik shootings in Norway, I said that future Europeans generations will likely regard him as a national hero akin to William Tell and Vlad Tepes. In light of the way events are beginning to take shape, I may have been in error. They may well make him a saint.

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72 Comments:

Blogger Michael Maier October 01, 2015 8:06 AM  

Keystone Krooks?

Blogger Alexander Thompson October 01, 2015 8:16 AM  

Is it possible that the first amendment could be interpreted to be limited to variations of Christianity and Judaism?

Blogger Doom October 01, 2015 8:23 AM  

Hmm? Only some of us Consider Vlad Tepes as a hero. Though I don't even, personally, consider him a hero. Just a man who did the right thing at the right time and saved a people who didn't want to be saved. He saved moderates, who then attacked his legacy of keeping them free and Western, and Christian, for what Christian actually means for most who call themselves that. Not a hero, just did the right thing at the right time, and at great personal cost.

It does need to get ugly. Traitorous governments need to be broken. Hopefully not too much infrastructure is damaged, just an end to the blind and stupid part of law. It really was never supposed to be blind, certainly not stupid. That was the progressive movement. Failure.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler October 01, 2015 8:24 AM  

The 1st Amendment came out of the Enlightenment which in turn came about because of the religious wars between Protestants and Catholics in Germany. Germany was turned into a killing field with much bloodshed.

That led the young atheist intelligentsia to promote Tolerance of Religion and then to get out from under Monarchy and the Roman Catholic Church, Freedom of Speech.

Now, its amazing to see Vox come out and say that the 1st Amendment is dead. Well, I couldn't agree more, Pope Leo XIII pointed out the errors and now the fallacy is before our faces in real time.

America is over. Words have no meaning. Facts have no bearing. Rule of Law is gone. 1st Amendment is no more. And our African Dictator does want he wants and no one stops him.

Blogger VD October 01, 2015 8:24 AM  

Is it possible that the first amendment could be interpreted to be limited to variations of Christianity and Judaism?

If some form of it survives, I expect it will be limited to forms of Christianity. But I don't think it will.

Blogger VD October 01, 2015 8:26 AM  

Only some of us Consider Vlad Tepes as a hero.

Doom, for the Nth time, no one gives a damn about your opinion. The point is that he is a national hero. Unless you are Romanian, it is not even a little bit surprising that you don't regard him as one.

Blogger My Dead Gramps October 01, 2015 8:31 AM  

"Just a man who did the right thing at the right time"
Probably the most succinct definition of a hero I've ever heard.

Blogger Student in Blue October 01, 2015 8:36 AM  

@Wheeler
Now, its amazing to see Vox come out and say that the 1st Amendment is dead.

Wheeler, read more carefully. Vox said "The First Amendment will be rejected by the American public long before the Second." (emphasis mine)

He's saying he sees the writing on the wall, not that it's already happened.

Blogger Salt October 01, 2015 8:36 AM  

I'm rather surprised the muslims, being offended by everything, have not demanded that Christian churchs preach islam.

Blogger Gaiseric ! October 01, 2015 8:37 AM  

Not a hero, just did the right thing at the right time, and at great personal cost.

What exactly do you think a hero is, then?

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler October 01, 2015 8:44 AM  

Drudge is reporting that a Hindu Mob burst down a door of a Muslim family who was accused of eating beef in India and beat the man with bricks.

Hinduism is becoming strident.

Islam is becoming strident.

And Christians,.....well, I don't know. So many are liberals.

Blogger S1AL October 01, 2015 8:47 AM  

The First Amendment was never meant to allow absolute freedom of religion. It doesn't say that, and the society that invoked it did not practice that. It's purpose of solely to restrain the federal government from establishing a national religion (or batting individual practice). That might well survive... The chicanery of modern interpretation was always doomed.

Blogger S1AL October 01, 2015 8:49 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 01, 2015 8:49 AM  

A few days ago, when Islam was mentioned in Theology class, a student asked me what's up with these beheadings they hear about on the radio. I gave them a quick summary, and one asked:

"There aren't any Muslims in this country, are there?"
"Unfortunately, yes."
"Are they beheading people here?" (said with a hand to her throat)
"No, there aren't enough of them, so they know they wouldn't get away with it."

The part I didn't say: "But our government is working on that."

Blogger Hammerli280 October 01, 2015 9:00 AM  

@11:
I think Christians are shifting from Churchianity to Crusader mode. It's just not instant.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 01, 2015 9:02 AM  

Well said, Vox. We're already making notes on local mosques (Irvine), Islamic schools (Irvine), and businesses owned and/or operated by Muslims.

In related news, the Russian Orthodox Church has declared Russia's fight against Muslim terrorists a "Holy War."

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 01, 2015 9:03 AM  

Saint Breivik...I like the sound of that.

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau October 01, 2015 9:03 AM  

Things like the Westgate Mall have happened here. Since 9-11 though the Authorities and Media always call it 'Workplace Violence' instead of Terrorism after they find another Tim McVeigh was not responsible. They breathed a collective sigh of relief when the Charleston Church Shooter turned out to be Dylan Roof and not Anwar Mohammed.

Blogger MendoScot October 01, 2015 9:06 AM  

I just saw that Breivik is on hunger strike over not being allowed to study in prison. I wonder what they don’t want him learning?

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 01, 2015 9:08 AM  

With each passing day it's becoming clear that ISIS are a US creation and will be deployed against White Christians in our own countries. The "refugee crisis" is a ploy to import hundreds of thousands of these Islamic fighters into our communities.

Blogger TheLiberatorOfBados October 01, 2015 9:09 AM  

13. S1AL

This. The Founding Fathers never intended for the 1st Amendment to protect subversive and destructive belief systems like Islam. As much as I don't care for Carson, him talking about that particular subject has brought a greater amount of scrutiny on the Constitution, the 1st Amendment, and Islam. And he can't be far from the mark considering the hounding he got in the media and from the political class and from Muslims.

I say don't make the mistake of mixing up our corrupt weak politicians for the rest of the US. We own more guns than ever. Our politicians may be weak, but we are not. Trump is polling well across the board and all political spectra for a reason. We've had a enough of this shit. We can hopefully clean this mess up with a minimum of bloodshed. But if not...nobody is going to argue against the merits of the 2nd Amendment, not with the country where it's at today.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 01, 2015 9:11 AM  

The cardboard stand provided cover, but no protection at all.

I'm going to go pedantic here and point out that the cardboard stand provided concealment (woman and her children crawled into a promotional stand to get out of sight.)

Cover is when you have something between you and the incoming rounds that can actually stop them. Concealment is when you are not visible to the bad guys. Ideally, you want both.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 01, 2015 9:13 AM  

The left only adopted the literalist interpretation of the 1st Amendment to protect Communists. It isn't needed for that anymore and can now be safely disposed of.

In fact the sooner the better so far as they are concerned. The illiterate university thought police/student bodies that are terrorizing their own lefty professors, are now openly saying that anything a cis-gendered white male is automatically micro-aggressive hate speech.

This is to be expected of course. The First Amendment is only functional in a world that is run by sane and rational minds.

We now live in an environment, that openly and aggressively encourages and rewards mental illness.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier October 01, 2015 9:14 AM  

@14

Cail, are you in the USA? There have been beheadings here. The most notable one I remember was an honor killing by a NJ TV producer of his estranged wife. Muzzammil Syed Hassan was the killer.

I'm rather surprised, but there is a whole wikipedia page on "Honor Killings in the United States." Only one of those listed was a beheading, and it is the same one mentioned above. Of course, there is a paragraph attempting to white wash Islam's responsibility for the killings at the end as well.

Blogger ZhukovG October 01, 2015 9:18 AM  

The US Governments lack of respect for the constitution will be its own undoing. If the government is free to redefine what an amendment means, so can the people. Particularly the people with scoped hunting rifles.

On a somewhat related note, I see the Western MSM is screaming bloody murder about the targets the Russians are hitting in Syria. I interpret this to mean that the Russians are hitting precisely where they need to and are having a significant effect.

Blogger Leatherwing October 01, 2015 9:23 AM  

Is it possible that the first amendment could be interpreted to be limited to variations of Christianity and Judaism?
I've seen it argued that when the fiunding documents refer to religion, they mean Christian denomination. In context of some of their other writings, it makes sense.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 01, 2015 9:23 AM  

Legitimacy is departing the establishment at a good clip. IMO 4GW has washed up on our shores and soon if not now foreign powers will openly take advantage of it. They will be able to do so because the Democratic party coalition of fringes is well fringe and that is being discovered

Blogger Dexter October 01, 2015 9:23 AM  

Black-run governments are corrupt, incompetent, disorganized, and very dangerous to their own subjects... who knew?

Blogger Dexter October 01, 2015 9:25 AM  

I see the Western MSM is screaming bloody murder about the targets the Russians are hitting in Syria.

I love the bickering and finger-pointing:

"We're killing the bad guys, they're killing the good guys!"

"No, we're killing the bad guys, they're killing the good guys!"

"Are not!"

"Are too!"

Blogger Dexter October 01, 2015 9:26 AM  

The First Amendment is only functional in a world that is run by sane and rational minds.

Eh, I dunno, read any newspapers leading up to the American Revolution or the Civil War, and you might have doubts about the level of sanity and rationality back then, too.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier October 01, 2015 9:29 AM  

If you include the sever throat slitting in with beheading, you can include the three people killed by the Boston Marathon bombers earlier, before their bombing. If you believe that whole narrative there.

There are apparently others as well. I didn't realize it was as wide spread as it seems to be when you go looking. Guess I'm still in the MSM bubble to some degree.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 01, 2015 9:46 AM  

@31

I defy you to find a single piece of writing from that period that honors, celebrates and venerates as heroes, men who want to be women so badly that they are in fact transformed into women.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 01, 2015 9:48 AM  

Thomas, good point. I knew there had been a few, but I didn't want to spend the whole class time looking up articles online, and honor killings are a different thing from killing infidels for Allah. So far, we don't have gangs of Mohammedans "converting" people with swords on the street. I don't expect it to get to that point here, but it won't be because our current government prevented it.

Blogger Gaiseric ! October 01, 2015 10:00 AM  

@33. Wheeler, knock it off already with the Mason/Deist conspiracy stuff. And read some primary sources before you jump to a half baked conclusion.

Follow this link and scroll down to the boxed text which is a letter written by his adoptive daughter (technically the orphaned children of his step-son, whom he raised from childhood at Mt. Vernon). I've taken the liberty of quoting a few parts of it.

It was his custom to retire to his library at nine or ten o'clock where he remained an hour before he went to his chamber. He always rose before the sun and remained in his library until called to breakfast. I never witnessed his private devotions. I never inquired about them. I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He was not one of those who act or pray, "that they may be seen of men" [Matthew 6:5]. He communed with his God in secret [Matthew 6:6].

My mother [Eleanor Calvert-Lewis] resided two years at Mount Vernon after her marriage [in 1774] with John Parke Custis, the only son of Mrs. Washington. I have heard her say that General Washington always received the sacrament with my grandmother before the revolution. When my aunt, Miss Custis [Martha's daughter] died suddenly at Mount Vernon, before they could realize the event [before they understood she was dead], he [General Washington] knelt by her and prayed most fervently, most affectingly, for her recovery. Of this I was assured by Judge [Bushrod] Washington's mother and other witnesses.

He was a silent, thoughtful man. He spoke little generally; never of himself. I never heard him relate a single act of his life during the war. I have often seen him perfectly abstracted, his lips moving, but no sound was perceptible. I have sometimes made him laugh most heartily from sympathy with my joyous and extravagant spirits. I was, probably, one of the last persons on earth to whom he would have addressed serious conversation, particularly when he knew that I had the most perfect model of female excellence [Martha Washington] ever with me as my monitress, who acted the part of a tender and devoted parent, loving me as only a mother can love, and never extenuating [tolerating] or approving in me what she disapproved of others. She never omitted her private devotions, or her public duties; and she and her husband were so perfectly united and happy that he must have been a Christian. She had no doubts, no fears for him. After forty years of devoted affection and uninterrupted happiness, she resigned him without a murmur into the arms of his Savior and his God, with the assured hope of his eternal felicity [happiness in Heaven].

Is it necessary that any one should certify, "General Washington avowed himself to me a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic, disinterested devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 01, 2015 10:04 AM  

Just finished talking about the linked article with the wife. Mentioned all the government missteps and how nobody got in any trouble for the government screw-ups. Her immediate reaction, "sounds like our government."

Blogger Floyd Looney October 01, 2015 10:33 AM  

When SCOTUS ruled that schools can ban the US flag on May 5 to keep Mexicans from being offended, it was over. Even people like Trump says court decisions are the "law of the land".

Blogger Jourdan October 01, 2015 10:35 AM  

Since Islam has a strong temporal component--Mohammed along among the great religion founders was also a king of men, a head of government and a general of armies--all that need be done is to re-define Islam as a political movement with principles opposed and incompatible with Western, specifically Anglo, political arrangements, must as Communism was so declared, and then merely note that its adherents claim divine inspiration.

By doing so, it becomes an allegedly divinely-inspired political movement which may be lawfully prescribed and legally and Constitutionally, thus, not a religion.

Blogger Floyd Looney October 01, 2015 10:35 AM  

@30- Russia has no qualm about hitting civilian targets

Blogger Jourdan October 01, 2015 10:47 AM  

As bleak as the current situation looks, one thing Western nationalists have going for us is that our enemies are so terrible and dysfunctional that they can't help themselves from delivering us victory.

Not that we'll have to work, struggle and fight for it. We will. But these savages just walking around murdering people, beheading people and putting it on You Tube, attacking people in the street...eventually, they will either co-opt, kill or push the undecideds into one camp or another.

Once the decision is made to win and the will found, I don't expect there will be much of a contest.

Blogger Jack Ward October 01, 2015 10:51 AM  

@20. Correct, Laguna. The traitor in the oval office has had as his marching orders [internal or order from without] 1. the destruction of the USA, 2, enabling of the caliphate, 3. all the above to the maximum possible without a coup against him and his twisted followers or impeachment out of office followed by the gallows or life in the pokey. Oh, sorry, I said impeachment. How silly of me. Impeachment from out congress. My, no, not this term or until we kick the lot of them out and get some new blood.

26> Yes. Yesterday I was listening to one our local talk show guys, Leland Live as it were, Birmingham, AL., and he was doing his best to talk it up without getting arrested for threats to our own obama. Words like treason, caliphate pushing, etc. Was quite refreshing. He spoke of the Russian general knocking on the door to the Bagdad embassy and telling the ambassador there to clear USA assets from Syrian air space. Or else. That too was refreshing. Mention was made of the Ruskkies bombing the so called free Syrian forces. All five of them? Old Leland thought not well of this. I immediately thought, OK, Putin is clearing the field of Assad enemies starting with the small fry. Later, he will probably come down like Charles the Hammer on the Isis freaks. I hope so, anyway.
Who would have thunk it. A Russian trying to become an American national hero. History will tell. But, seriously, these are popcorn times.

Blogger Dexter October 01, 2015 10:55 AM  

@34,

I defy you to find a single piece of writing from that period that honors, celebrates and venerates as heroes, men who want to be women so badly that they are in fact transformed into women.

The stuff the North said about blacks, and Southern treatment of blacks, was equally insane.

Blogger JAY WILL October 01, 2015 10:56 AM  

It seems clearer and clearer that this isn't lefty pathological altruism at play but part of the general plan to enforce diversity on Western countries from manipulative leaders, the SJW's and related activists being the useful idiots.

Jihadi attacks are a small price to pay for the bigger picture that all totalitarian ideas have their eye on, and given its likely only the shire folk will be the ones getting it (all of the diversity will be rammed into the equivalent of poor "redneck" country in the UK) then its all going to be fine. Unless, of course, the prole sheep are not quite as sheepy as they hope.

Blogger tweell October 01, 2015 11:05 AM  

To quote from Col. Kratman's Caliphate:

'The first Muslim containment camps opened near Dearborn, Michigan, in the spring of 2018. Citing the case of Korematsu v. United States, as well as the related cases, Yasui and Hirabayashi, and the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798, the President, by executive order, directed the internment of all male Moslems, to include Black Muslims, over the age of twelve, whatever their citizenship. The Supreme Court, now with two more justices firmly in the WUA camp, endorsed the order, eight to one.
Another pardon from the president was required, when that one dissenting member of the court was killed.
The next major political act of the Buckman administration, the "Redefinition of Religion Act of 2018," defined Islam as "primarily a hostile and dangerous political movement, and only incidentally and dishonestly a religion," and expressly placed it "squarely outside the protections of the First Amendment." This the Supreme Court approved unanimously.'

This indeed may be viewed as destroying the First Amendment, but the alternatives are worse IMHO.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 October 01, 2015 11:18 AM  

Wheeler, you want a King who is limited/controlled by the Pope. So: how do chose a good king and a good pope? How did that system work out for the Holy Roman Empire? The Italian Kingdoms? How well did it work for Israel when the King they wanted was selected by God and annointed by Samuel?

Why do you think you have a right to choose the boot on your neck when you assume that there has to be a boot on your neck a priori?

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler October 01, 2015 11:23 AM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Blogger Alexander October 01, 2015 11:23 AM  

@41 Russia has no qualm about hitting civilian targets

Yeah well, the last few weeks have given us an interesting definition of what a Syrian "civilian" looks like.

Zero fucks given: I'm saving what few I have left for my European and American brethren who oppose the hoards but find themselves swamped regardless.

Blogger Justin C October 01, 2015 11:27 AM  

"Better to have one tyrant 3000 miles away, than 3000 tyrants one mile away"

Mel Gibson-The Patriot

OpenID Steve October 01, 2015 11:30 AM  

Only some of us Consider Vlad Tepes as a hero

Vlad elevated moslems over his own people, we should just put them in the ground/ash trays.

He saved moderates, who then attacked his legacy of keeping them free

This cunt was saved from black savagery of the superdome during Katrina and he called the people that saved him racist.
"Diary from the Superdome during Katrina: One White Liberal Confirms the Worst While Lamenting White Privilege"
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2015/09/diary-from-superdome-during-katrina-one.html

"Just a man who did the right thing at the right time"Probably the most succinct definition of a hero I've ever heard.

As someone who has managed to get multiple non Asian minorities fired, along with actions against their licenses I can tell you Sisyphus & Diogenes don't have easy jobs. One place I was at I couldn't believe the nursing supervisor defended a nurse that had been through the junkie nurse rehab that had a heplock in her leg.

Hinduism is becoming strident. Sheiks are hindus that discovered they need to carry knives around moslems.

Trump is polling well across the board and all political spectra for a reason

Trump may have jumped in front of a parade to lead it but now it has enough momentum to keep going if he leaves it.

@14 Cail "Are they beheading people here?" (said with a hand to her throat)"No, there aren't enough of them, so they know they wouldn't get away with it."

I thought you where in the UK, there is Lee Rigby & a grandmother beheaded in her London garden. In the US the boston marathon moslems had 3 gay jew next door neighbors(Raphael Teken, Erik Weissman, and Brendan Mess) that got beheaded on sept 11 2011, but no one suspected moslems until Pam Geller looked into the moslems past.

- Russia has no qualm about hitting civilian targets They don't fall for the human shields trick. People should only put live children hanging from fences as traps to catch Barney Frank.
-BGS

Blogger FALPhil October 01, 2015 11:34 AM  

@21 I say don't make the mistake of mixing up our corrupt weak politicians for the rest of the US. We own more guns than ever.

One hopes it never comes to that, but hope is waning.

One of the best practical tomes I ever read on 4GW before I knew what 4GW was Unintended Consequences by John Ross. A very long read (several hundred pages), it is full of advice on technique while still being quite a delightful story. It is out of print now, but you can still find copies; Amazon sells used ones.

The solution isn't guns. The guns are merely a tool. The solution is principle over pragmatism and vehement intolerance of any sort of encroachment on principle. The single biggest mistake the FFoA made was not embedding the principle of preventing professional politicians, at least at the national level. Why they missed that one, I cannot understand.

George Washington had it right: serve, and then go home. Instead, we have people who spend their entire adult lives (and sometimes their pre-adult lives) invested in politics, and thus we have birthed a political class, which in the 20th century became trans-generational - just like the ruling feudal houses of Europe from centuries past. One only has to look at Hilliary and her obvious sense of entitlement in the face of gross incompetence, not to mention criminal behavior, and wonder why she is still a candidate. She is still a candidate because she is of the ruling class, exempt from the laws and conventions that apply to “the little people.”

@26 The US Governments lack of respect for the constitution will be its own undoing. If the government is free to redefine what an amendment means, so can the people. Particularly the people with scoped hunting rifles.

Understand that on the front end, resistance will be sparse and the federal government will use all of its vast resources to squelch that resistance, so as to nip it in the bud. There will be sacrifice and martyrdom on the front end. It will not be until resistance becomes widespread that effect change can occur. For that to happen in a wealthy, post-modern society, people will have to either lose most everything, and therefore have nothing to lose, or they will have to be living under intolerable threat and incented to disregard the consequences of resistance.

Either scenario could facilitate 4GW, but incumbent to a successful campaign is knowledge and awareness of technology. It’s one thing to conduct 4GW in a third world shithole, and it is totally another thing to conduct it in a wealthy first world country where there are CCTV cameras on every corner, facial recognition software, and automated automobile tag readers. That is not to say it cannot be done, but if you expect to tell your grandchildren about your part in the revolution, you need to be smart about it.

I appreciate the sentiment. Like the man said, “When all else fails, vote from the rooftops.”

Blogger Student in Blue October 01, 2015 11:38 AM  

Wheeler, et al:

Now instead of talking about the past, again, for the Nth time whenever the US Constitution is briefly mentioned... let's talk about the present and the near future instead.

Instead of beating your drum about how the Founding Fathers were Masonic Deists... why not discuss what should replace the First Amendment if/when it fails, and if it should be replaced at all.

It'd be nice to finally hear something different once in a while.

Blogger VD October 01, 2015 11:42 AM  

Wheeler, stop it before you get banned. For the second time this week I am being forced to remind you that you are not the blog police. You are not the history police. It is not your job to correct ANYONE being wrong on the Internet.

Learn to control yourself. If you can't, the blog administrators will.

Blogger Student in Blue October 01, 2015 11:42 AM  

@FALPhil
For that to happen in a wealthy, post-modern society, people will have to either lose most everything, and therefore have nothing to lose, or they will have to be living under intolerable threat and incented to disregard the consequences of resistance.

At least in America, with almost every young person carrying an increasing amount of student debt and there being an increasing wealth disparity between rich and poor, this may come quicker than either of us expect.

It may also come later than either of us expect, but that's the nature of things. I just wouldn't count it out if things continue on the same trajectory they are.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 01, 2015 11:44 AM  

I thought you where in the UK

And here I thought I blathered too much about the Midwest USA.

I can't really count the Boston Bombers, since I don't think there were any actual bombs, so I don't even have a guess about who might have done any related killings.

But for the record, it seems I was mistaken; there have been some Muslim beheadings on US soil, mostly in-family honor killings. And of course the victims of Muslim shooters and bombers are no less dead for having died with their necks intact. But my students were asking about the "deny Christ and worship Allah or die by this sword" variety that they've heard about on conservative talk radio, which I think the US Gov. has failed to import enough critical mass to bring about here at this point.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 01, 2015 11:57 AM  

Freedom of speech, phew.

Let the gun do the talking.

OpenID Steve October 01, 2015 11:58 AM  

And here I thought I blathered too much about the Midwest USA.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/09/26/woman_beheaded_by_fired_coworker_at_us_factory.html

I think one of the victims of the black moslem serial killer of gays in 3 states Ali Mohammad Brown was either beheaded or almost beheaded. The problem is you have people like the coroner in Lewistown Maine that want to seal autopsies.

Blogger Nabu the Scribe October 01, 2015 11:59 AM  

@9 Salt
"I'm rather surprised the muslims, being offended by everything, have not demanded that Christian churchs preach islam."
===
They don't need to - the govt bodies are taking care of the indoctrination.
Story today:
GEORGIA SCHOOL -COMPULSORY CLASSES IN ISLAM: Conveniently Leaves Out Christianity and Judaism

Blogger Gaiseric ! October 01, 2015 12:03 PM  

George Washington had it right: serve, and then go home.

And he got a lot of credit throughout Western Civilization as "the American Cincinnatus." But as you say, the Founding Fathers were too naive. They trusted too much in the good will of those who followed them. Which, often, didn't even last beyond their own terms of office. Jefferson really screwed up big time on his Supreme Court nominations for precisely that reason. And even he flirted dangerously with tyrannical powers with the Embargo Act.

The lesson there being, as you allude, the Constitution really needed stronger protections against professional politicians and other venal hangers-on. Good will only got you a few really good years before it started going south. And that interpretation is somewhat generous.

OpenID Jack Amok October 01, 2015 12:09 PM  

The 1st Amendment came out of the Enlightenment

That's stretching things a bit too far. The 1st Amendment came about because a significant portion of the (recently former) colonists had families that emigrated from the old world to get away from government oppression of their religious practices, especially in cases where a particular church hierarchy held sway with the government and didn't like breakaway sects escaping from their power. It exists to prevent church hierarchies from using government power to hamstring rivals.

The 1st Amendment also exists so that thirteen colonies with differing majority Christian denominations could join together in a federation without worrying that one denomination would use the new federal government to put the others at a disadvantage.

Several of the Founding Fathers were indeed philosophers, but the Constitution was not an exposition on philosophy - it was a functional document meant to provide the nuts and bolts for holding a government together.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz October 01, 2015 12:13 PM  

Thinking of Cail's reference to the increase in "refugees" to 100,000 per year, a great many of which are supposed to be Syrian, I wonder if the CIA, DIA, NSA, et al will be importing many of their "special friends", agents, contacts, or other "moderate" Islamic groups that are fleeing the ass kicking the Russians, Iranians, and the revitalized Syrian army will be handing out.

After all, since al Quaeda (?) affilliated al Nusra is now moderate, we should let them in right? Magic dirt and all that...

Blogger Student in Blue October 01, 2015 12:15 PM  

@Jack Amok

We're trying *not* to get back on that topic.

Blogger Watcher October 01, 2015 12:19 PM  

Wheeler rises.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 October 01, 2015 12:37 PM  

Mea culpa. I encouraged it with questions. Wanted to see if he'd give a substantive answer.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar October 01, 2015 12:54 PM  

The Founding Fathers of America were not the idealists you believe. They were all men of the World, and knew this day would come. As an American Citizen I have a sworn duty to support and defend The Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign or DOMESTIC. Nothing about any government employees whomever they mey be. So sad...

Blogger Student in Blue October 01, 2015 1:01 PM  

From the topic:
There is no assimilation taking place; observe that one of the four Somalis involved in the attack grew up in Norway.

I'm reminded of the stories of terrorist training camps already in the US. I could never tell quite how much stock to give it - are they talking anti-American-people-Derka-Derka-Muhammad-Jihad, or were the stories instead falsely labeling the ex-military forming up into well-intentioned-but-maybe-not-a-good-idea militia?

Blogger Sheila4g October 01, 2015 1:51 PM  

"Is it possible that the first amendment could be interpreted to be limited to variations of Christianity and Judaism?"

Personal response: NO. NO. NO. NO.
Being a perverse sort, I asked an earnest commenter at another blog what a "Judeo-Christian" was. I asked if she had ever met one. In return, I got a post with quite a few solid quotes demonstrating the decidedly Christian origins of a number of the founding fathers. I complimented her on her quotes, and again asked "Which of them was a Judeo-Christian?" It sailed right over her head.

I will continue to use B.C. and A.D. in accordance with two thousand years of Christian civilization. I recall hearing that Jews preferred "Before Common Era" and "Common Era" back when I was in junior high, but never believed those would come into common use - even my liberal Maryland school district used the classical terms at least up until 1980 or so.

While the Constitution specifically mentions no religious requirements for national public office, all of the initial colonies had such requirements, which were subsequently challenged and overturned. Perhaps someone with a legal background could clarify if there's anything specific that automatically translates the Constitution's language to individual states, or if it's yet another perverted "understanding" like the 14th amendment.

Blogger Dexter October 01, 2015 2:15 PM  

@38, @46, @48,

As I said in another thread, Russia doesn't have to give a shit about civilian casualties, because all the civilians "angered" and "driven to terrorism" by airstrikes will wind up in Britain, France, and Germany, not Russia. From that perspective, Russia can regard angry civilians as actually a plus.

Blogger Chris Mallory October 01, 2015 2:38 PM  

@65 "Perhaps someone with a legal background could clarify if there's anything specific that automatically translates the Constitution's language to individual states, or if it's yet another perverted "understanding" like the 14th amendment."

The 14th Amendment is what is used to apply the Bill of Rights to the individual states.
This part of section 1 : "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"

OpenID corvinus333 October 01, 2015 2:52 PM  

@66 Dexter

Yup, Russia appears to be playing realpolitik here. Russia has in fact built ties to "right-wing" European political parties, and letting more Muslim "refugees" flood into Europe, including who knows how many al-Nusra fighters who got cold feet, will both help discredit equalist multiculturalism and strengthen the "far-right".

Blogger Sheila4g October 01, 2015 3:18 PM  

@67 Chris Mallory - Thank you for responding. I apologize for not clarifying my query - while a glance at the Constitution reveals only age requirements for office holders, most of the original colonies did have religious requirements which, as you noted, were overturned in the 1860s by the 14th Amendment. So far as I understand, the founders were aware of such individual requirements which were not deemed unconstitutional at the time - i.e. no religious requirement for office holders was only intended for national office initially. Or is this another case of deliberately vague language a la the Jefferson quote regarding Hindus and Muslims?

Blogger Anonymous Robot October 01, 2015 4:16 PM  

I believe that TPTB will start using the Jihadist massacre at a shopping mall as the next part of their plan to disarm Americans.

The shoot up schools and movie theaters plan does not seem to be working, so put some of those Mogadishu types to work.

Blogger Raziel Walker October 02, 2015 3:49 AM  

That somali group that killed close to 70 people? Terrorists.
Breivik, who killed over 70 people? Terrorist.

I have a hard time going from that to a hero/saint in the future. Are you that certain violence is the best/only way to stop the invasion of immigrants?

Blogger Tommy Hass October 03, 2015 6:30 PM  

"I impression that the war in the USA will start when an attack of similar scale takes place in the USA and Americans begin to respond in kind despite the best efforts of the federal government to defend their attackers. There is no assimilation taking place; observe that one of the four Somalis involved in the attack grew up in Norway."

Behold this shameless stuff. He implies that Americans will start killing innocent Muslims if an attack of that scale were to happen in America. Except that the attack was carried out by FOUR people. He pretends that an innocent Muslims getting killed would be an attacked of Americans getting revenge.

Fuck you.

"The First Amendment will be rejected by the American public long before the Second. As it has been said, the Constitution is not a suicide pact and few Americans will stand by freedom of religion when doing so jeopardizes their right to life, liberty, and happiness. Between the Scylla of godless pedophiles and the Charybdis of Sharia, the USA is no longer a society fit for a First Amendment."

You're full of shit. Neither of these things are a problem for America. And Freedom of Religion is an absolute requirement. There is no circumstance that would ever justify abolishing it.

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