ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Thursday, October 22, 2015

The latest GOP disaster-in-waiting

Paul Ryan was a terrible candidate for both VP and President. Why does anyone think he's going to be a good Speaker of the House? Ann Coulter certainly doesn't:
Imagining a photo of himself on the mantle of every black household in America, Ryan touts his forum on poverty, saying, "There are few challenges tougher than the fight against poverty, and we need all hands on deck."

Wow. What a caring person. No one's ever talked about poverty before! (Have they?)

About a decade ago, I met an actor, the hot new thing, at an agent's party. He excitedly told me his big idea: A war on poverty! I told him to look up "LBJ," but he earnestly persisted, saying, yeah, sure, maybe LBJ talked about poverty, but no one had ever called for "a war on poverty." See, that was the key -- the war part.

That was a mentally impaired actor. Now a decade later, I'm hearing the same thing from the man House Republicans want to make their speaker.

All of human experience has already taught us how to fight poverty, and it doesn't involve the words "opportunity," "empowerment" or "zone."

Effective: Don't pay people not to work. The 1996 welfare reform act, with its time limits and work requirements, reduced welfare caseloads by an astronomical 65 percent, as former recipients entered the workforce.

Ineffective: Self-flattering politicians jabbering about how much they care about poverty, then creating behemoth government programs that give corporations tax breaks for pretending to help the poor.

Effective: Stop dumping millions of low-wage workers on the country to drive down wages. America's booming, prosperous middle class arose in the 40-year period after immigration was virtually shut down in 1924 -- until Teddy Kennedy opened the floodgates to the Third World in 1965.

Ineffective: Demanding an endless supply of cheap immigrant labor favored by your corporate donors, subsidized by the long-suffering middle class, while strutting around like you're Martin Luther King.
If you sincerely want to help poor Americans, especially poor black Americans, there are two things that must be done before anything else.
  1. Stop all immigration.
  2. Repatriate 50 million Hispanic and Asian immigrants and their children. 
This is straightforward economics. If you want to raise wages, reduce the supply of labor. Also, white people simply don't understand how much Hispanics hate blacks or how much Asians despise them. Being racially solipsistic, they just lump everyone into two categories, white and not-white. But ironically, despite all their self-flagellating and breast-beating, whites, especially American whites, are the least racially conscious people on the planet.

They are so racially unaware that they don't even realize that most not-whites hate other not-whites considerably more than whites do. And those like Rep. Ryan who wander around seeking their Martin Luther King merit badge reliably do more harm to the black community than good.

Labels: ,

227 Comments:

1 – 200 of 227 Newer› Newest»
Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 8:20 AM  

He's set some conditions for accepting the position, one of which is that he wants to change the rule allowing a simple majority of the House to remove a sitting speaker. I don't think that's going to fly with the rank and file.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2015 8:27 AM  

They are so racially unaware that it shocks them when people of other races can't tell them apart.

Blogger Joeplanet October 22, 2015 8:35 AM  

Paul Ryan already waived the demand to remove Thomas Jefferson's rule

Blogger rumpole5 October 22, 2015 8:41 AM  

The republican establishment just has to keep the lid tightly sealed on the pressure cooker ! These people have to be the most stupid leaders since Louis XVI assumed the throne and blundered into the destruction of the centuries old French Christian regime. We've been plagued with the philosophical bastard children of Rousseau ever since!

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 8:47 AM  

ok I know we have to do this deportation thing... but I insist we figure out some way to insure our excellent neighborhood mexican restaurants remain unaffected.

Hell with the poor. I'm not giving up my queso and shredded beef chimichangas.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 22, 2015 8:49 AM  

Honestly I don't care About Blacks, seriously they deride my type for racism then turnaround and offer really stupid racism. Even you Christians might stop and contemplate the brothers keepers line as more racist BS. I want my freedom from Black Run America aka BRA

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 8:53 AM  

I'm pretty sure a much more effective way of raising wage rates is to increase the level of capital investment, which makes each unit of labor more valuable. I'm not really down with intentionally increasing labor costs as being the rationale for deportations. Actually, I'm pretty sure that the effect of intentionally raising labor costs through restricting the supply is exactly the rationale for union closed-shop laws, and those aren't of any economic benefit to anyone but the unions, and even there only in the short run.

Ending illegal immigration is one thing, and reversing the trend is probably worth what it will cost, but why is it that so many people forget that the modern era of rapidly growing government interventions in the economy also started during the Johnson administration? VD, you aren't the only one insisting that immigration is the culprit, but I seem to recall the founder of Home Depot saying that the modern regulatory state would make it impossible for someone else to found Home Depot now.

Obviously the immigration situation isn't helping things. But I really don't think its the main obstacle to economic prosperity in America or in the rest of the West. Central banking, the regulatory state, confiscatory taxation and SJW-type laws that produce nuisance lawsuits are all much, much bigger direct obstacles to prosperity than Mexicans are.

The only sense in which I can see immigration being bigger is if the point is that immigrants are more likely to vote for those things. In which case, maybe. But the FRB and the income tax started in 1913. The regulatory state that we know today also began during the Wilson administration, and the modern SJW-laws started under Johnson, back when the kind of immigrants that we have today simply weren't here. They used to be smaller and less intrusive, but none of them were ever *good* for the economy

Blogger Shimshon October 22, 2015 8:54 AM  

Since blacks are probably aware of the war they're in with the Latinos, if Trump can actually convince them that he's serious about getting rid of lots and lots of them, he should have no problem attracting a substantial amount of their support.

Blogger Desiderius October 22, 2015 9:00 AM  

Romney ultimately lost in 2012 because he was a coward, but the turning point in the race was clueless tryhard Ryan letting himself get AMOGed by Biden in the VP debate.

Blogger Hammerli280 October 22, 2015 9:03 AM  

Ryan could not even deliver his OWN Congressional district for the Romney/Ryan ticket. The GOP Establishment is clueless.

Better to bring back Gingrich.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:06 AM  

"I'm pretty sure a much more effective way of raising wage rates is to increase the level of capital investment, which makes each unit of labor more valuable."

hey surgartits... that's cute and all... but that's not how it works.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 22, 2015 9:08 AM  

We would be better off disqualifying the establishment media then engaging in debates with cuck RINO types, to them the media is the authority, so destroy it

Blogger Chris Mallory October 22, 2015 9:08 AM  

@9 What cost Romney the election was his idiotic "47%" meme. He insulted the blue collar white working class/Reagan Democrats and they stayed at home.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 9:10 AM  

@11
Actually that's Austrian School of Economics 101. So sayeth Mises. You can increase employment by having men dig with their bare hands, but you increase the amount each man can dig by giving him a shovel. So yes, that is how it works.

Blogger David of One October 22, 2015 9:12 AM  

It is worth noting that the meaning of the name "Ryan" is "little king".

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 22, 2015 9:14 AM  

It's all signaling.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey October 22, 2015 9:15 AM  

Keep the Irish out of politics !

Haven't we learned this lesson yet?

Blogger Chris Mallory October 22, 2015 9:15 AM  

OT

Any word in the Euro media concerning the Swedish sword attack? Is the attacker a diverse immigrant?

I do note that the Swedish police are reported as firing two shots, one of which hit the target. A 50% hit rate. Much better than the typical cop shooting here in the US where they empty several magazines and end up with a 5% hit rate.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:15 AM  

"Actually that's Austrian School of Economics 101. So sayeth Mises. You can increase employment by having men dig with their bare hands, but you increase the amount each man can dig by giving him a shovel. So yes, that is how it works."

/facepalm

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:19 AM  

but the turning point in the race was clueless tryhard Ryan letting himself get AMOGed by Biden in the VP debate.

No it wasn't

Blogger VD October 22, 2015 9:20 AM  

I'm pretty sure a much more effective way of raising wage rates is to increase the level of capital investment, which makes each unit of labor more valuable.

And yet, you're wrong.

Actually that's Austrian School of Economics 101. So sayeth Mises. You can increase employment by having men dig with their bare hands, but you increase the amount each man can dig by giving him a shovel. So yes, that is how it works.

True, but they already have shovels. Giving them a second shovel is not going to improve their productivity or increase the value of their labor. You can't just blithely parrot this stuff, you have to actually understand it in order to be able to determine if it applies to the situation. And it doesn't. There is no shortage of capital or debt-finance; they literally can't give the capital away at no interest these days.

Blogger Dexter October 22, 2015 9:23 AM  

Bah, you can give blacks a shovel, but you can't make them dig.

Unless you also pay a man to wield the lash.

Which is pretty much the only way anyone, throughout the centuries, has ever gotten blacks to work.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 9:24 AM  

@21

I'm disappointed VD; I thought you of all people would have understood that capital investment meant physical capital, not money. That is pretty basic Austrian School stuff, too.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:24 AM  

"True, but they already have shovels. Giving them a second shovel is not going to improve their productivity or increase the value of their labor. "

Vox... I know you love to beat people on their own terms but this is a blatant false equivilence. Claiming that increasing a workers production value increase wages is utility-based-pricing bullshit.

if I can hire 10 guys to dig for 5 dollars an hour with their bare hands... why would I pay them 8 dollars an hour to dig with shovels that I bought them?

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:26 AM  

Increasing the price of labor by increasing the demand for labor is very very tricky. increasing the price of labor by reducing the supply of labor is not tricky.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 9:27 AM  

@21

Especially after I brought up the subject of shovels.

@24

I suppose you missed the point about Milton Friedman's China story, too, then.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 9:30 AM  

@24

And apparently the 'dirt moved per hour' variable is assumed to be constant in your story? 10 guys with shovels would probably be able to dig more than twice as fast as the guys with their bare hands; can't be long before the 'shovels at $8/hr' is cheaper than 'bare hands at $5/hr'.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:30 AM  

Which is pretty much the only way anyone, throughout the centuries, has ever gotten blacks to work.

Explain the high rates of black employment pre great society.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 9:32 AM  

@25

Sure, which is why unions were able to figure it out. Doesn't mean it has any net benefit for the society.

@28

What it doesn't explain is the *falling* black poverty rates, pre-Great Society.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:36 AM  

Sure, which is why unions were able to figure it out. Doesn't mean it has any net benefit for the society.

High wages don't have a net benefit for society?

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 9:38 AM  

@30

Not when those are accompanied by higher prices for goods and services, no. Unless you are seriously suggesting that McDonalds won't be raising their prices if they actually have to pay people $15 per hour.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:40 AM  

"
And apparently the 'dirt moved per hour' variable is assumed to be constant in your story? 10 guys with shovels would probably be able to dig more than twice as fast as the guys with their bare hands; can't be long before the 'shovels at $8/hr' is cheaper than 'bare hands at $5/hr'."

No dumbass.

You know you're wrong. That's why you brought up unions. Unions came to be to fight natural economic behavior. Increasing worker production doesn't affect wages one damn bit.

Supply and Demand is the only thing that effects wages.

increasing worker production reduces demand you cumquat brained mid-wit. That lowers wages.

Capital Investment makes companies more wealthy and increases profits and drives the price of products down. Its got exacly jack shit to do with wages.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:42 AM  

Not when those are accompanied by higher prices for goods and services, no.

You're assuming that.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir October 22, 2015 9:43 AM  

Ryan's just the guy to nudge the GOP over the cliff they've been tottering on the edge of for so long.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:43 AM  

Unless you are seriously suggesting that McDonalds won't be raising their prices if they actually have to pay people $15 per hour.

Do you believe the bell curve for intelligence exists?

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir October 22, 2015 9:45 AM  

@10
"Better to bring back Gingrich."

You're joking, right?

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:46 AM  


"Better to bring back Gingrich."

You're joking, right?


I would hope he is, but you can't be too careful these days.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:48 AM  

Increasing worker production doesn't affect wages one damn bit.

Especially if it results in a bunch of workers losing their jobs.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:50 AM  

Look... A company aquires massive capital. In fact... lets look at say.. Honda... and its dark factory.

What are the wages of the production workers at the dark factory?

Oh right. The wages are 0. Because there are no production workers at a dark factory.

Now how exactly does that effect wages in the macro sense? It drives them down by putting a few thousand workers on the unemployment lines. you have reduced the supply of jobs and increased the supply of employable labor.

You are likely going to be wealthier... but you're not positively affecting wages.

And that's what you're advocating as a real solution. Its incorrect. In fact its observably ludicrous.

The answer is to reduce the labor supply.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:50 AM  

"I would hope he is, but you can't be too careful these days."

Gingrich would be 1000% better than Ryan.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:51 AM  

can't be long before the 'shovels at $8/hr' is cheaper than 'bare hands at $5/hr'.

If it's cheaper, that means that Nate is paying less, which means that his workers are earning less.

Congrats, you've just shown that increasing capital lowers wages. Well done.

OpenID rufusdog October 22, 2015 9:51 AM  

I work with Hispanics frequently, I asked if they don’t like blacks, they just shrugged at me and said they didn’t care. I’ve worked with these guys for years and they don’t have any motivation to be PC around me. I’m not sure I’m buying that Hispanics hate blacks.

A cop showed up to the last training class I attended, we got to talking about shooting, police training, combat focus, and race came up. He said the people that give black cops the hardest time are other blacks. It’s a little counter intuitive, but blacks want to be officers in white areas.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:52 AM  

Gingrich would be 1000% better than Ryan.

I was referring to the idea that Newt is somehow not part of the republican establishment.

Blogger Miguel D'Anconia October 22, 2015 9:53 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Giraffe October 22, 2015 9:53 AM  

if I can hire 10 guys to dig for 5 dollars an hour with their bare hands... why would I pay them 8 dollars an hour to dig with shovels that I bought them?

Assuming your goal is to move dirt, you wouldn't. You'd fire 8 of them and keep two with shovels. And they'd still move more dirt than 10 without. Since you only need two, You could probably pay them 3 dollars an hour because there's 8 unemployed guys who need work.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:53 AM  

I’m not sure I’m buying that Hispanics hate blacks.

Then what happened to Compton?

Blogger Miguel D'Anconia October 22, 2015 9:54 AM  

@10
actually, the brothers keeper line was uttered by Cain after God asked him where his brother Abel (who he had just killed) was. His reply "Am I my brother's keeper?".
In my opinion, those assholes who use that line to justify theft through taxation and wealth redistribution are evil, just like Cain.

Blogger Geoff October 22, 2015 9:54 AM  

Honda's dark factory is raciss.

Blogger Salt October 22, 2015 9:55 AM  

10 guys with shovels would probably be able to dig more than twice as fast as the guys with their bare hands

I'd hazzard one man with a good shovel will do more than ten bare hands guys. Now you got nine unemployed guys, increasing the available labor pool and driving labor costs down.

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 9:55 AM  

Memes need to be made that say something along the line of Immigration is hatred of African Americans...but something more visceral and catchy like the immigration is rape culture meme

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:56 AM  

"Assuming your goal is to move dirt, you wouldn't. You'd fire 8 of them and keep two with shovels. And they'd still move more dirt than 10 without. Since you only need two, You could probably pay them 3 dollars an hour because there's 8 unemployed guys who need work."

and you just proved you know far more austrian economics than the mid-wit here.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 22, 2015 9:57 AM  

They are so racially unaware that they don't even realize that most not-whites hate other not-whites considerably more than whites do.

I love the all encompassing term hispanic. As if there is no difference at all between native speakers of Spanish.

That term is easily the most persuasive evidence that SJWs are quietly racist as fuck.

I am speaking as a man who used to have two room mates, one Mexican and one Puerto Rican. They were constantly going at with each other over that very thing. All of their friends did too. And of the three of us, I, the Child of Albion, spoke the best Spanish


Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 9:57 AM  

Memes need to be made that say something along the line of Immigration is hatred of African Americans...but something more visceral and catchy like the immigration is rape culture meme

A bunch of Mexicans in sombreros lynching a black guy

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 22, 2015 9:58 AM  

And if we went back to commodities-backed banking, wages would go up as well and inflation would level off.

But I'm not holding my breath in anticipation for either this or immigration reform.

Whatever happened to the minutemen?

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 9:59 AM  

Need NWA walking the streets of what looks like mexico... but talking about how much Compton has changed.

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 10:01 AM  

The Republican Party is either run by intelligent traitors or more likely, by a bunch of "nice" guys as defined by Robert Glover.

Will a new party need to be started or should our group do reverse entriyism?

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 10:02 AM  

Need NWA walking the streets of what looks like mexico... but talking about how much Compton has changed.

We're running straight outta Compton
Crazy mother fuckers named MS 13
Done killed my black American dream

Blogger Unknown October 22, 2015 10:03 AM  

This video shows how Croats are directing migrants to our green border without any notice to Slovenian government. http://4d.rtvslo.si/arhiv/mmc-novice/174366711

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 10:04 AM  

> increasing worker production reduces demand you cumquat brained mid-wit. That lowers wages.

In general, yes. Depending on the level of skill required for the new production methods it may raise the wage for the workers kept, but it reduces the number of workers you need, resulting in an overall reduction. Come on Leo, you're smarter than this.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:05 AM  

"Will a new party need to be started or should our group do reverse entriyism?"

I think it requires a new party.

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 10:06 AM  

Does anyone know what idiot economists of today or the recent past have said that labor supply does not have any effect on labor demand or vice versa? I don't understand why so many seem to struggle with the idea that labor is like any other good in the market and therefore the law of supply and demand applies.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:06 AM  

"Come on Leo, you're smarter than this."

on what evidence is this claim based?

Blogger VD October 22, 2015 10:07 AM  

Vox... I know you love to beat people on their own terms but this is a blatant false equivilence. Claiming that increasing a workers production value increase wages is utility-based-pricing bullshit.

I'm not in the larger argument. I'm just pointing out the peril of imagining one scenario and applying it to everything.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 10:07 AM  

I think it requires a new party.

The bourbon party.

The new, improved whiskey rebellion.

To Make America Great Again.

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 10:07 AM  

I think it requires a new party. - Nate

Yeah, that's my feeling as well. It would be nice to brainstorm with this group just how to start a new party that could have some traction in the US system.

Blogger The Other Robot October 22, 2015 10:10 AM  

Arson seems quite frequent in Sweden:

Second arson attach on Mosque December last year.

Firefighters battle 5th suspected arson attack on refugee shelters in 2 weeks.

Interesting.

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 10:11 AM  

> Look... A company aquires massive capital. In fact... lets look at say.. Honda... and its dark factory.

Heh. I actually applied for a job with Honda down in Florence, SC while I was looking for work. Only got a rejection letter though.

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 10:17 AM  

> ...on what evidence is this claim based?

Well, I have to admit it's a judgment call based on his posts to date, and I've been known to be wrong. :)

> I think it requires a new party.

The national party is the problem, not the state parties. Does anyone know if there's a way for the individual state parties to disassociate from the national party?

OpenID rufusdog October 22, 2015 10:18 AM  

I’m a long way from Compton.

But gangbanger group X killing off and driving out gangbanger group Y doesn’t prove much.
I’m pretty sure black gangs get into it with other black gangs all the time, not over race I presume.

Violent poor urban shitholes are going to be violent poor urban shitholes, even if they are racially homogeneous.

Besides wanting to live around your own kind is a long throw away from hating all other groups. Just because I don’t want to live in a black neighborhood doesn’t prove I hate blacks.

People self-segregate, always have, always will.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:18 AM  

"Heh. I actually applied for a job with Honda down in Florence, SC while I was looking for work. Only got a rejection letter though."

***snicker***

Blogger Gaiseric October 22, 2015 10:18 AM  

Ending illegal immigration is one thing, and reversing the trend is probably worth what it will cost, but why is it that so many people forget that the modern era of rapidly growing government interventions in the economy also started during the Johnson administration? VD, you aren't the only one insisting that immigration is the culprit, but I seem to recall the founder of Home Depot saying that the modern regulatory state would make it impossible for someone else to found Home Depot now.

You're missing the point. The decrease in the labor supply and subsequent rise in wage of American workers is a beneficial side effect of stopping immigration and repatriation. It's not the point of it.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:21 AM  

"Yeah, that's my feeling as well. It would be nice to brainstorm with this group just how to start a new party that could have some traction in the US system."

I've got some experience in this area. Me and some other guys started a political party in the late 90s. got some people elected in about 9 states... got coverage on CNN.

All fell apart over typical personality conflicts... OMG! YOUR IDEOLOGY IS NOT PERFECT! BLOW IT ALL UP!

Blogger The Other Robot October 22, 2015 10:22 AM  

I like Southern Comfort and Glocks!

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:22 AM  

"'I’m a long way from Compton."

psssst...

rufusdog...

lil' hint...

You're not the target audience.

Blogger Rabbi B October 22, 2015 10:25 AM  

If it's cheaper, that means that Nate is paying less, which means that his workers are earning less.

Congrats, you've just shown that increasing capital lowers wages. Well done.


And within 40 comments no less. Impressive!

Blogger YIH October 22, 2015 10:27 AM  

Oh here we go again, ''empowerment zones''.
Of course it's stupid, first even if all federal taxes on businesses were voided do you think CVS would rebuild in Baltimore? Would you? Of course, there are also State and local taxes in such areas, what would the feds do? Pay those instead of that business? Doubtful.
And what about the added costs to build/modify a business for a third-world area?
Not to mention the added costs due to untrustworthy/dangerous employees and the need to pay more to get, for example, management to venture into dangerous areas.
I wonder if Paul Ryan has heard of Milwaukee WS.
Nahh, I doubt it.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:41 AM  

I still haven't heard a good plan that's going to insure I have un-interupted access to affordable high-quality chimichangas.

deportation is a non-starter for me until that issue is handled.

A republic without good mexican food isn't worth saving.

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 10:41 AM  

All fell apart over typical personality conflicts... OMG! YOUR IDEOLOGY IS NOT PERFECT! BLOW IT ALL UP! - Nate

There has to be a way to contain or mitigate that...like using Vox's anti-SJW code of conduct or running a party like a military command. It is a war afterall.

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 10:43 AM  

Nate, if you deport them, the demand for good Mexican food should create a market for white people to step in and fill the gap...the market will take care of the rest.

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. Burnin' Up! October 22, 2015 10:43 AM  

Thumbs down, continued absurdities expected, debt theater, etc.

I figured Paul Ryan would be the only choice since it could be grooming for the next absurd elections. Ryan's policies will be accepted as the repubs capitulate again and again, concede with such fear. Idiocy.

More counterproductive policies and of course he's fully pro-bank & neoconned, correct?

Regarding wages and immigration, the prison industrial complex needs a purging, send the savages back to where ever via bus tickets or a boat.

Release the non violent drug addled. If they want to use they will eventually OD or help them to another country where whatever dope helps them is available complete with needles and vomit bags. The prison wages are an issue negatively impacting current wages combined with the immigration pay. The vampires making money off alleged law breakers is wrong.

I dont care, what concerns me are Ryan's past policy blunders and his alarming lack of economics.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:45 AM  

"Nate, if you deport them, the demand for good Mexican food should create a market for white people to step in and fill the gap...the market will take care of the rest."

that's like saying if you take all the white physicists out of South America the demand for physicists will create a market and blacks will step in and fill it.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:46 AM  

south africa dammit... not america.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 10:49 AM  

"There has to be a way to contain or mitigate that...like using Vox's anti-SJW code of conduct or running a party like a military command. It is a war afterall"

the capital L libertarian party has never been able to overcome it. Things are different now though. knowing going in that it is the primary threat... it maybe possible to deal with.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 22, 2015 10:52 AM  

Since I can add nothing to the conversation on black uplift except mind your own business I will try to add something positive. Bob Whitaker VP candidate was being interviewed on the radius and he unleashed a brilliant rhetorical riposte to the word "racist"

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 11:03 AM  

@41 @49

Or... now you could do 10 digging jobs instead of one. Each man out-earns the original 10, but 10 times as many jobs are being done at the same time, or each job is being one 10 times faster, lowering the overall cost of digging, and ensuring that more digging projects will be started.

I love that people here have literally gotten to the point where they argue that the effect of mechanizing labor has been to decrease employment and wages. Yeah, power tools and earthmovers have made us all poorer and driven down wages. Of course they have, Son, of course they have. That's why we need to outlaw internal combustion engines, electricity, and indoor plumbing; we'd have more jobs and higher wages if we were still doing everything by hand instead of with power tools.

You've got a worse case of 'the Money Tree' delusion than Michael Moore does. He doesn't even actually believe that the benefits pool is fixed, he just says it because it gets his movies more attention; whereas you actually do believe that the job pool is fixed.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 11:06 AM  

@32

Apparently you've never actually heard Milton Friedman's joke about China and spoons. So I'll link it here to you: http://gsibspeak.com/index.php/kunena/good-reads/41-milton-friedman-and-the-chinese-spoon

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 11:09 AM  

@49

This is, hands down, the most economically ignorant conclusion from a non-Leftist that I've ever heard.

Blogger Rabbi B October 22, 2015 11:09 AM  

"I still haven't heard a good plan that's going to insure I have un-interupted access to affordable high-quality chimichangas."

Surely there would be enough Mexicans here legally to secure your un-interrupted access. Might not be as affordable, but hey, even you can't have everything. Unless of course your deporting every Mexican. In that case, I think you're screwed.

White people stepping in to make high-quality chimichangas? Riiiiigggghhhhht! I think *high quality* was the operative term here.

Blogger TheLiberatorOfBados October 22, 2015 11:10 AM  

Ryan is getting chewed out badly in all this. He isn't the shoe-in that was expected, and he put his foot in his mouth trying to get rid of the "motion to vacate" that has forced Boner to resign.

The real story is that nationalists now have a foothold in the US government. It isn't strong enough to completely overwhelm the political establishment, but it IS strong enough to throw monkey wrench after monkey wrench into their machine, and in the process exposing these lawful evil cowards to the rest of us, which then translates to THEM being primaried and replaced.

Trump is pressing down from above, and the Tea Part/nationalists from below. The Political Class is feeling the squeeze. And the States are openly discussing a Convention of States to deal with this crap without the Feds having a say. The ultimate reversal of their "governing without consent". This isn't going away. And the politicians are screwed.

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 11:10 AM  

> ... now you could do 10 digging jobs instead of one. Each man out-earns the original 10, but 10 times as many jobs are being done at the same time ...

Excellent, Leo. Now, how many digging jobs are there demand for in the area? How much will the demand increase due to the drop in wages? Will it be enough to create jobs for all the displaced workers? Hint, the answer is almost always no.

Blogger CarpeOro October 22, 2015 11:16 AM  

At a more skilled end of the spectrum, all the companies importing Indian (with a dot) workers because they "can't find Americans to do the job" has driven down IT wages and decreased the number of Americans going into IT. Why go into an area where your competition is being brought in to live 6 to a one bedroom apartment and willing to take a lower wage?

That and off-shoring to out-source companies is one of my major worries because it has impacted me directly and keeps my salary lower than it would be otherwise. The fact that when my job was outsourced and they replaced me with four people at a much lower rate (that couldn't actually do my job, just looked good on paper) means I have to be aware of the possibility of it occurring again.

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 11:18 AM  

> Yeah, power tools and earthmovers have made us all poorer and driven down wages.

Made us all poorer? No. But no one has been arguing that. Driven down wages for manual labor earth movers? Of course they have.

Blogger boxty woot October 22, 2015 11:18 AM  

If you can train a Mexican to make good sushi, then you can train a white person to make a good burrito.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/12066/

Blogger Alexander October 22, 2015 11:18 AM  

... You do realize of course that the world only needs so many chopsticks or fire extinguishers or feet of shoveled-trench?

Machinery that increases efficiency is a total good when there the bottleneck in the economy is the shortage of workers, and so more efficiency in sector A frees up labor to work in sector B.

But when you reach the point where there is a surplus of labor, then the cost hits: mechanization and other efficiency measures will still bring down the cost of sector A, but at the cost of driving down wages, because now the excess labor is competing for the same jobs instead of moving elsewhere.

But I bet next your going to tell us that Ford was a genius because he paid his workers so much they could afford his product.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 11:21 AM  

@90
The demand for digging jobs would go up because the overall cost of the job has gone down. I'm a land surveyor; we're doing 3 times as many jobs now because of the advent of new tools like Mobile LiDAR as we used to. We're busier than ever, our field guys are getting overtime work through the end of the year, and all of our guys just got a raise; we're even looking for new people because we've got so much work coming in. The only thing that's stopping us right now is the lack of people who can pass a drug test.

Lowering the amount of time your big tasks takes lowers the overall cost of the project, which means you can lower your prices and take on more projects. As the cost of construction falls, *more construction projects are begun*.

And actually, not only are you wrong, you have it exactly backwards. Historically new technologies have created FAR more jobs than they destroyed, and it's not even clear that they destroyed them at all. The new jobs weren't always in the same industry, but the net effect was always positive.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:23 AM  

I'm really glad WhiteKnightLeo is here to teach us all Econ 101.

What would we do without his knowledge?

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 11:23 AM  

@94

Apparently you missed the bit of Austrian economics where surpluses, including labor surpluses, are caused by price controls and not by changing technology. When you set a floor for wages, you create a surplus. You won't find many non-Marxist economists who don't agree that minimum wages create unemployment.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:24 AM  

And actually, not only are you wrong, you have it exactly backwards. Historically new technologies have created FAR more jobs than they destroyed, and it's not even clear that they destroyed them at all. The new jobs weren't always in the same industry, but the net effect was always positive.

Every single time?

Blogger CarpeOro October 22, 2015 11:25 AM  

"I still haven't heard a good plan that's going to insure I have un-interupted access to affordable high-quality chimichangas."

The nearest (to me) Mexican run Mexican restaurant doesn't have really good food - just decent mariachis on Fridays. That is with a barrio only 5 miles away (lots of Mexicans and stores where they don't speak English). My Mexican-descendant wife and I prefer going to On the Border (mainly Mexican staff).

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 11:25 AM  

@96

Dunno, apparently you missed some important days in your econ class and haven't taken the time to brush up. You won't find a single word in Mises's writings that agrees with your take on either the labor supply or capital investment, and he's the godfather of Austrian economics.

Blogger VD October 22, 2015 11:25 AM  

I love that people here have literally gotten to the point where they argue that the effect of mechanizing labor has been to decrease employment and wages. Yeah, power tools and earthmovers have made us all poorer and driven down wages. Of course they have, Son, of course they have. That's why we need to outlaw internal combustion engines, electricity, and indoor plumbing; we'd have more jobs and higher wages if we were still doing everything by hand instead of with power tools.

Leo, you have a serious problem with your refusal to grasp that theory does not apply equally to all situations. And your emotional reaction to substantive criticism and resort to exaggerated rhetoric doesn't make you look any more knowledgeable. I know Mises better than you do. Nate does too. You're not arguing anything we don't know.

You just don't seem to grasp that it can't be applied in all circumstances. Sometimes capital can make labor more valuable. But usually, it doesn't. And that is a separate issue from technological advancement, to which you appear to now be mistakenly appealing.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 October 22, 2015 11:26 AM  

@98

Until the advent of modern economic interventions by the state, yes. That's why I said 'historically'.

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 11:27 AM  

> And actually, not only are you wrong, you have it exactly backwards. Historically new technologies have created FAR more jobs than they destroyed...

No one has said they haven't. But they're not the same jobs, and usually not done by the same people. And the people who are displaced are either on unemployment or taking jobs paying less. You're the one glossing over the process, not us

And that still has nothing to do with more workers meaning lower wages.

Blogger The Other Robot October 22, 2015 11:27 AM  

Excellent, Leo. Now, how many digging jobs are there demand for in the area?

I hear that there are plenty in India. Now, if we only had free movement of labor!

What's that you say? There's more than just immigration rules in the way?

Blogger FP October 22, 2015 11:28 AM  

Forgive the intrusion on the shovel ready debate, the Freedom Caucus has a super majority support for Ryan. So no official 80% of members but most support him...

"While no consensus exists among members of the House Freedom Caucus regarding Chairman Ryan’s preconditions for serving, we believe that these issues can be resolved within our Conference in due time. We all know that Washington needs to change the way it does business, and we look forward to working with Paul and all our colleagues to enact process reforms that empower individual representatives and restore respect to our institution.”"

Blogger VD October 22, 2015 11:28 AM  

Historically new technologies have created FAR more jobs than they destroyed, and it's not even clear that they destroyed them at all. The new jobs weren't always in the same industry, but the net effect was always positive.

You are factually wrong. It is very clear that new technologies have not only destroyed many jobs, but entire industries. Nor has the net effect always been positive. How many people work in farming today?

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:28 AM  

Apparently you missed the bit of Austrian economics where surpluses, including labor surpluses, are caused by price controls and not by changing technology.

Could a labor surplus also be caused by an increase in the labor supply?

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 11:33 AM  

> The demand for digging jobs would go up because the overall cost of the job has gone down. I'm a land surveyor; we're doing 3 times as many jobs now because of the advent of new tools like Mobile LiDAR as we used to.

3 times the work. With 1/5 or less the workers. How's that work out for wages overall?

> I hear that there are plenty in India. Now, if we only had free movement of labor!

OK. How man ditch diggers can afford to move to India? I'm begin

> What would we do without his knowledge?

Oh, I think we'd muddle through somehow. :)

> Apparently you missed the bit of Austrian economics where surpluses, including labor surpluses, are caused by price controls

That's one thing that can cause them, yes. It's not the only thing.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 11:33 AM  

Leo... stop digging this hole deeper. You're burying yourself in your own ignorance.

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 11:35 AM  

The cutoff sentence above was supposed to end with I'm beginning to think Nate was right and I was wrong.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:37 AM  

Leo... stop digging this hole deeper. You're burying yourself in your own ignorance.

You know, if he just had access to capital, he could dig his hole even faster...

Blogger Chris Mallory October 22, 2015 11:38 AM  

@81
The South African blacks have their own witch doctors. They have no demand for the white man's magic.

Blogger Elocutioner #0226 October 22, 2015 11:38 AM  

@109 Nate:
"Leo... stop digging this hole deeper."

Nah, let's give him a shovel and see what happens.

Blogger Rabbi B October 22, 2015 11:41 AM  

Leo, you have a serious problem with your refusal to grasp that theory does not apply equally to all situations. And your emotional reaction to substantive criticism and resort to exaggerated rhetoric doesn't make you look any more knowledgeable. I know Mises better than you do. Nate does too.

Time to pick another ride, Leo.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 11:41 AM  

"You know, if he just had access to capital, he could dig his hole even faster..."

only real capital goods though... not money...

Blogger RobertT October 22, 2015 11:51 AM  

Hello DC. Pay attention.

Blogger rumpole5 October 22, 2015 11:53 AM  

As I mentioned above, a Bourbon started all of this "liberty, equality, fraternity" nonsense that has been a murderous plague on humanity ever since. A new party is okay but please choose another name!

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 11:54 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

OpenID Steve October 22, 2015 11:54 AM  

neighborhood mexican restaurants remain unaffected...Hell with the poor. I'm not giving up my queso and shredded beef chimichangas

Hell with the poor. I am not giving up my cheap Hispanic prostitutes and rough trade.

I'm pretty sure a much more effective way of raising wage rates is to increase the level of capital investment,

Asians are ok with committing high IQ fraud, with Mexicans ok to follow a pamphlet to commit low IQ benefits fraud. We would be taking so much off the tax burden, we could afford good tax cuts while getting better services for our taxes.

Since blacks are probably aware of the war they're in with the Latinos, if Trump can actually

Every black in his camp is there for that reason, but I doubt more than 20% know they have more to fear from MS-13 than a STR8 WHITE Church Going Christian Man. Soros' legion of jewish lesbian gatekeepers don't just give talking points to GLBT.

Blogger Jourdan October 22, 2015 11:55 AM  

Hi everyone from Capitol Hill. I can assure you that no one here--NO ONE--is aware of just how badly the Republican leadership is sundered from its base and average Americans. I know the evidence for this state of affairs is everywhere and it should be obvious, but the Beltway is just that dysfunctional. In fact, as bad as you think it is, it's probably worse. Republicans here are very pleased at the prospect of a Speaker Ryan and it will certainly happen, following the most conservative caucus' surrender last night.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:56 AM  

Hell with the poor. I am not giving up my cheap Hispanic prostitutes and rough trade.

Stay strong, bgs

Blogger Marie October 22, 2015 11:56 AM  

If you toss out the immigrates won't that just increase the number of jobs that get sent overseas?

Some jobs have to be done here, but are there enough of those?

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 11:56 AM  

that's like saying if you take all the white physicists out of South America the demand for physicists will create a market and blacks will step in and fill it. - Nate

I was being more facetious than correct, failed at both. That said, is the benefit of good Mexican food worth the costs? If yes, then I suggest you setup a special division that decides what ethnic chefs may come into the country based on a taste test entrance exam. Might as well weed out the bad Mexican food from the good.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:57 AM  

If you toss out the immigrates won't that just increase the number of jobs that get sent overseas?

What

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:58 AM  

That said, is the benefit of good Mexican food worth the costs?

If you're paying more than $10 for a chimichanga, you're doing it wrong.

Blogger Feather Blade October 22, 2015 12:00 PM  

How many people work in farming today?

Or ice-block delivery?

Blogger Marie October 22, 2015 12:02 PM  

"I still haven't heard a good plan that's going to insure I have un-interupted access to affordable high-quality chimichangas."

Nate,

They aren't that difficult to make. There is skill involved but I think we will be able to handle it.

Biggest issue with making Mexican food is getting everyone to agree on what they mean by "Mexican." There's the authentic stuff (with all its variations), there's the Americanized-stuff (with all its variations), and then there is the I-dumped-salsa-in-it-so-it-must-be-Mexican camp.

There might be some rough years but we should make it. If we get into too much trouble you can send the teenage boys on a border raid to steal their cookbooks and spices.

Blogger Durandel Almiras October 22, 2015 12:03 PM  

For those who lnow their economics, how could we reduce or stop the free movement of labor? Would tarifs on corporations who have use outside labor work or would that cause a different set of problems? How do you stop corporations from chasing cheap labor if they can't import it? Or should we not even bother and allow countries to duke it out for the favor of corporations?

Blogger FP October 22, 2015 12:07 PM  

Cuckservative Erikson even thinks Ryan's requirements are a bad idea:

http://www.redstate.com/2015/10/21/paul-ryan-wants-house-conservatives-to-sign-their-own-death-warrant/

Blogger Marie October 22, 2015 12:08 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Marie October 22, 2015 12:09 PM  

@124

Companies follow cheap labor. A lot of jobs are already overseas for that reason. Many aren't because companies would have to invest in infrastructure and training. The cost of "moving" the jobs overseas is more than they will save in labor costs.

If the companies lose access to what cheap labor they have here that could make the initial investment in overseas labor costs more attractive. Once they make that investment, Why bother to hire the American workers who are left?

Blogger Skylark Thibedeau October 22, 2015 12:09 PM  

The Mexican Food at Mexican Restaurants is not authentic. If you've ever been outside the Touristy areas of Mexico you'd see that.

You could advertise you're hole digging company as Green, Donate to the Clinton Campaign, Get Millions in Federal Subsidies, then declare bankruptcy and retire.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 12:15 PM  

"The Mexican Food at Mexican Restaurants is not authentic. If you've ever been outside the Touristy areas of Mexico you'd see that."

I don't give a damn if its authentic or not. Its inexpensive and yummy. That's all I give a damn about.

Blogger Dexter October 22, 2015 12:16 PM  

@28,

Explain the high rates of black employment pre great society.

Oh Lordy, you are naive, son.

Blacks "employed" =/= blacks working.

Go to any corporation that prides itself on diversity and you'll find countless black "workers" who don't do a damn thing, even if they aren't in bullshit drain-on-the-company fields like HR.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 12:16 PM  

"Companies follow cheap labor. "

this is a false narrative. 1950s american labor was not cheap. Manufacturing was booming.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 12:17 PM  

"Blacks "employed" =/= blacks working."

It did in 1920.

Blogger Dexter October 22, 2015 12:18 PM  

The Mexican Food at Mexican Restaurants is not authentic. If you've ever been outside the Touristy areas of Mexico you'd see that.

It's not authentic unless you're hospitalized with a parasitic brain worm that came from pork feces.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/PainManagement/story?id=6309464&page=1

OpenID Jack Amok October 22, 2015 12:18 PM  

I don't need 10 guys moving dirt. I need a ditch dug. Making workers more efficient means I need fewer workers to dig it. In a perfect world, the 9 guys I don't need to dig my ditch could go on to do other productive stuff, like cure diseases or explore Mars. But the reality is ditch diggers aren't going to do any of that on their own. They could help an entrepreneur do it, but the entrepreneur needs to exist. We have a limited number of those, competent ones anyway, and over regulation strangles a bunch of those we do have.

Supply and demand. Immigration increases supply. Capital investment decreases demand. Both lower wages. Entrepreneurs increase demand. Deportation lowers supply. If you want wages to go up, repatriate and deregulate.

OpenID Jack Amok October 22, 2015 12:19 PM  

I still haven't heard a good plan that's going to insure I have un-interupted access to affordable high-quality chimichangas.

Each town gets to keep one Mexican restaurant, plus one taco truck. Alton Brown MCs the reality-TV competition to see who stays.

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 12:24 PM  

"It's not authentic unless you're hospitalized with a parasitic brain worm that came from pork feces."

you know american farms all use pig manure for fertilizer... right?

Tell him Farmer Tom.

Blogger Marie October 22, 2015 12:29 PM  

How's it a false narrative?

It is a completely different world in the 1950s. You couldn't buy pretty much anything you wanted from Amazon.com and have it delivered to your door in the 50s.

The American textile industry is gone. Almost all of our cloths and clothes are made overseas now and the quality is crap. All those jobs are gone.

Tech-support, costumer support, manufacturing for small parts so much of that is done overseas today.

Blogger clk October 22, 2015 12:30 PM  

VD says "You are factually wrong. It is very clear that new technologies have not only destroyed many jobs, but entire industries. Nor has the net effect always been positive. How many people work in farming today?"

I don't disagree with the loss of jobs (and as a former family farmer - dairy - I know something of this) but the production per acre has jumped dramatically so one could question whether the farming industry was destroyed or improved IF the measure of the outcome is production. I certainly are willing to concede the short comings of the mega corporate farm to food quality, antibiotic use, generically modified food and I would love to see the return of the local food sources... but in terms of production only .. technology has improved farming.

To a large extend this is cardinal to modern capitalism -- produce more with less inputs (labor being one of the inputs) .. so it is natural that as technology advances there is pressure on these ratios and since capitalism is one of the big drives to new technology advancement - its a natural thing to happen....

I would argue that in the VD list of things to do there is a 3rd item that has something to do with international trade, outsourcing, import/export -- the logic is sound to restrict the labor pool as a force to raise pay but there is "leakage" in the system which is outsourcing manufacturing/production to foreign countries with lower labor cost.. so you have to do something like put large tariffs on imported goods and manipulate internal tax rates to encourage production and job growth in the US if this is going to work...

It does sound a bit socialist to me .. :)

OpenID Steve October 22, 2015 12:32 PM  

Not when those are accompanied by higher prices for goods and services, no......You're assuming that.

McDs came out and said if not for the cash registers automatically producing coinage change they would be losing money. Many places like grocery stores/car insurance is made on a 4% or less profit, which is why they have to flee when the neighborhood goes black.

I love the all encompassing term hispanic. As if there is no difference at all between native speakers of Spanish.

On new birthing and census documents there are over a dozen different flavors of Hispanic to select all that apply because Hidalgo Hispanics do so well that they hurt mestizos victim status.

Need NWA walking the streets of what looks like mexico... but talking about how much Compton has changed.

How about a bell curve graph of IQ/SAT scores by race with the saying Mexicans are a better affirmative action choice because they are smarter?

Leo, you have a serious problem with your refusal to grasp that theory does not apply equally to all situations.

Leo did plug in vibrators that can run 24/7 replace the need for husbands?

The Mexican Food at Mexican Restaurants is not authentic. If you've ever been outside the Touristy areas of Mexico you'd see that

Yea but I don't want to get a shot of Gamma Globulin every time I want authentic Mexican food. Last time I visited my Dr I asked about getting the Hept A vaccine that the govt wants to give all kids, she said it was not worth getting & that she didn't get it either.

Blogger clk October 22, 2015 12:36 PM  

"you know american farms all use pig manure for fertilizer... right '' -- we preferred cow manure and/or chicken manure .. but only because both were produced onsite for free... and lots of lime... Oh the fond memories of pulverizing chicken manure :)

Blogger Tommy Hass October 22, 2015 12:40 PM  

"Repatriate 50 million Hispanic and Asian immigrants and their children. "

Asians?

Blogger Rabbi B October 22, 2015 12:43 PM  

"I don't give a damn if its authentic or not. Its inexpensive and yummy. That's all I give a damn about."

Then what are you worried about Nate?

OpenID Steve October 22, 2015 12:44 PM  

"Repatriate 50 million Hispanic and Asian immigrants and their children. " Asians?

George Takei votes for the party that put him in an internment camp.

Blogger Marie October 22, 2015 12:49 PM  

"the logic is sound to restrict the labor pool as a force to raise pay but there is "leakage" in the system which is outsourcing manufacturing/production to foreign countries with lower labor cost.. so you have to do something like put large tariffs on imported goods and manipulate internal tax rates to encourage production and job growth in the US if this is going to work...

It does sound a bit socialist to me .. :)"

The other side of that would be to encourage businesses to make sure their consumers know their goods are American-made and services are American-based.

I know a lot of people would happily spend a few dollars more on American-made products if those products were clearly labeled. Key to this would be the older millennials who were starting out or laid off during the fallout of '08. They have a lot more loyalty to their fellow American workers than you might think.

If there is a demand for local or domestic products that helps to offset the cheap labor overseas.

Blogger Dexter October 22, 2015 12:55 PM  

You know that we have different practices for hygiene and food sanitation in this country.... right?

(For now, anyway.)

Blogger Gunnar von Cowtown October 22, 2015 1:00 PM  

"...Ryan letting himself get AMOGed by Biden in the VP debate"

Could this be a feature, not a bug?

Agreed that Ryan is a cuck and total pussy. Mid-witted Joe Biden completely owned him in the 2012 VP debate. I also want the same things you guys want for the U.S.;
- build the wall
- mass deportations
- immigration moratorium
- for starters...

There is no reason what so ever to believe that Ryan is capable of standing up to President Trump, much less thwarting his will. Could having a spineless, mincing nancy-boy as speaker of the house work to our advantage under a Trump administration? Admittedly, it's a bit of a gamble and if The Lizard Queen ascends then we'd be ever more doomed. But, Trump vs. Ryan for 4-8 years? Call it one hell of a silver lining.

Blogger Alexander October 22, 2015 1:37 PM  

Seems like a pointless worry: Mitch McCuckell is going to roll over and let Harry Reid have his way with him. Congress won't do anything that in anyway causes badfeels to leftists and cucks.

Blogger Joshua Sinistar October 22, 2015 1:43 PM  

Nate your cheap chimichangas and chulupas are probably made by machines in Asia. Your palid pallet used to high fructose corn syrup couldn't tell the difference believe me. The GOP is showing everyone why democracy doesn't work. Its always cheaper to bribe some political whores than pay fair wages. Prices for products are meaningless if the workers and end users don't have disposable income. Most of these cheap chavos are eating on food stamps asshole. Who will pay for that if they're the whole labor pool. Your math skills leave much to be desired. I never met an economist who managed anything. I wouldn't trust Milton Friedman to run a popsicle stand. Those economic models are about as sound as promises of prosperity when millions are on the unemployment line and the only retailers making money are gun dealers.

Blogger Karl October 22, 2015 1:52 PM  

@86

Apparently you've never actually heard Milton Friedman's joke about China and spoons. So I'll link it here to you: http://gsibspeak.com/index.php/kunena/good-reads/41-milton-friedman-and-the-chinese-spoon

Apparently you've never read Moldbug's rejoinder to that story. (as excerpted on Foseti)
https://foseti.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/confused/

“Oh!” says the apocryphal professor. “Well, in that case, why are they using picks? Why not give them spoons?”

While this is meant to illustrate the supposed idiocy of Solution D, it actually illustrates the design space. The purpose of Solution D is to lose as little money as possible, while maintaining the human quality of your assets and preventing them from degenerating into Hardcore Pawn customers, 10th St. zombies or other revolting parodies of the human condition.

Digging ditches with appropriate hand tools is a simple and almost ennobling, in its own small way, form of manual labor which is ideally suited to the condition of most humans, delicate aristocrats perhaps excepted. (It is possible to construct makework for delicate aristocrats, but it takes more imagination.) Digging ditches with spoons is a degrading punishment appropriate only for refractory pedophiles. Since there is never any shortage of ditches you’d rather have than not, there is no need to issue spoons – unless the purpose of the project is exemplary degradation.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 22, 2015 1:57 PM  

@91 CarpeOro
At a more skilled end of the spectrum, all the companies importing Indian (with a dot) workers because they "can't find Americans to do the job" has driven down IT wages and decreased the number of Americans going into IT.
---

This is a huge problem, imo.

Some retail store used to have a phrase "see the dot, save a lot".

Blogger Were-Puppy October 22, 2015 2:08 PM  

@133 Nate
"The Mexican Food at Mexican Restaurants is not authentic. If you've ever been outside the Touristy areas of Mexico you'd see that."

I don't give a damn if its authentic or not. Its inexpensive and yummy. That's all I give a damn about.
----

This is easy. Vote for Jeb to keep them chimi's flowing!

Blogger Were-Puppy October 22, 2015 2:11 PM  

@134 Dexter
Blacks "employed" =/= blacks working.

---

I'm old enough to remember a time before the Mexicans. Any long road trip you would inevitably go through some kind of roadway construction area. And what would you see?
6 black guys leaning on shovels or in the shade, and 1 actually digging or doing some apparent work.

Blogger Karl October 22, 2015 2:16 PM  

@156 the last major recent public works project that (apparently) favored Americans was the BP cleanup effort after the Macondo blowout in the Gulf. Cash employment arrangements, there were attempted "expose" pieces by left news outlets about how horribly exploited these workers were etc. I'm talking about the guys pushing brooms on the beach, not the boat operators or people putting booms out.



Blogger VFM 188 October 22, 2015 2:54 PM  

And your emotional reaction to substantive criticism and resort to exaggerated rhetoric doesn't make you look any more knowledgeable.

Wow. The Dark Lord misses one. It's hardly surprising Leo's getting pissed off. He's been subjected to continuous snark-attacks by Nate, Josh, Dexter, and their fanboi's all day.

Leo is right on some stuff, doubtful or wrong on others, but the discussion is worthwhile. The exaggerated rhetoric, on the other hand, is mainly spewing from the snarky bitchez attacking him. Hang in there Leo. It's not possible to give as good as you get facing this mob, but many of your points are well-taken and the discussion is appreciated.

Blogger Desiderius October 22, 2015 3:09 PM  

"It's not possible to give as good as you get facing this mob"

It's not only possible, Leo's been doing it all thread. I am curious if Vox has any ideas for quantifying his caveats, because that's what it's going to take to even get a hearing from most people who have ever actually hired someone. Then again, I guess if you got enough proles on board you wouldn't have to bother with that, but I wouldn't bet that way.

Blogger Desiderius October 22, 2015 3:15 PM  

"but the turning point in the race was clueless tryhard Ryan letting himself get AMOGed by Biden in the VP debate.

No it wasn't"

Opinion noted. Thanks for sharing.

The bump Romney got among women turned on by his heel turn in the first debate disappeared after Biden one-upped him on Ryan. Seeing the reaction to Biden's performance (and Ryan's) was what convinced me that Vox was right about socio-sexual dynamics.

Blogger YIH October 22, 2015 4:13 PM  

@146 Rabbi B:
"I don't give a damn if its authentic or not. Its inexpensive and yummy. That's all I give a damn about."

Then what are you worried about Nate?

This maybe?

Blogger Groot October 22, 2015 4:32 PM  

@158. VFM 188:
"Hang in there Leo."

I'll support someone intelligently discussing Austrian economics. I might suggest throwing in a few phrases like "ceteris paribus" or "nonlinear relationship," but my gut says that the dog-piling is due to your handle: White Knight Leo. It just radiates gamma.

@148. Marie:

Not one apology. Nice!

Blogger VFM 188 October 22, 2015 4:50 PM  

No. Dog-piling is unseemly, whether Leo has a partly stupid handle or not. (Leo, get rid of "White Knight" on your handle, would ya? "Leo" works just fine.)

Blogger Unknown October 22, 2015 4:52 PM  

[Whites] are so racially unaware...

No. Whites may be less aware of other races in day to day life (noting that there are white Chinese, Indians, Arabs and Africans), but they are always aware of their own race as distinct from any other, and always ready to colour-class society, mostly when ownership of something good, right and proper can be claimed. No other colour class makes a song and dance as much as whites about owning human achievement.

Interestingly, the good contributions and achievements of those from other races which comprise the racial composite and aggregate that is the West are automatically subsumed by whites and branded 'white' culture then trumpeted by whites as the basis of 'white' racial pride and right to nationhood, while all the bad stuff is branded black and linked to some vile corrupting coloured influence. Only white people interpret so readily the biblical references to white as the colour of purity being something to do with their skin colour.

The whites presumption and assertion of racial superiority is well documented in history. Far from being unaware of race, whites are acutely aware of their own race(s), narcissistically and solipsistically presuming that what they see, think, know, do and believe about themselves is automatically something others need, calling the fact that swathes of n'er-do-wells and malcontents from other races and cultures found assimilation into European culture more appealing than rising in their own cultures 'the white man's burden', which the whites then baptised into their churches and elevated to a divine right to command and conquer, mostly on the basis of their foreignness to the white race alone.

No, the problem you seem to be alluding to is not so much that the coloureds of the world have difficulty preventing themselves from colour-classing human existence, it's that whites generally don't.

No-one is more accomplished at trumpeting their self-importance more than white people. Interestingly, the volume from the brass section seems to be increasing in proportion to growth in the woodwind, string and percussion sections. Perhaps if the brass pipes down a little the world will have a chance to hear what the Composer intends from His full orchestra.

Blogger Rabbi B October 22, 2015 4:57 PM  

@161 YIH

Touche.

+1

Blogger VFM 188 October 22, 2015 5:03 PM  

Good observations, Unknown. Here's a possible solution to the problems you describe. Why not put all the white people in just one place---doesn't matter whether it's a big place like the U.S. or a small place like Switzerland---and let the various "coloureds of the world" (as you put it) have their own places too? That way everyone could build their own awesome societies and art and culture and inventions and so forth. All would excel in all sorts of admirable ways, and each group would admire the others from afar, and even adapt beneficial ways of organizing their own societies after seeing how other groups successfully do it!

A decent, workable solution that would benefit all, no?

Blogger Rabbi B October 22, 2015 5:07 PM  

@163 VFM 188

"Dog-piling is unseemly, whether Leo has a partly stupid handle or not."

No. Dog-piling is good clean manly fun. I am sure Leo is big-boy enough to *hang in there* and take it in stride. He's not the only one around here who gets their tuchus handed to them once in a while.

Hang in there and lighten up, man. It turns out the train is just fine.

Blogger Salt October 22, 2015 5:07 PM  

If you've ever been outside the Touristy areas of Mexico you'd see that.

I was at Carlos n Charlie's in Cozumel. Asked the waiter why there were no tortilla, enchiladas, whatever on the menu. He said, "That's peasant food. Tex-Mex is border shit."

Blogger SciVo October 22, 2015 5:19 PM  

I'm pretty sure a much more effective way of raising wage rates is to increase the level of capital investment, which makes each unit of labor more valuable.

If you are capable of reading a chart, then look at Figure 2 and slam your head against your desk -- repeatedly -- for imagining some kind of immutable direct correlation between productivity and wages. That hasn't been true for thirty years.

I'm not really down with intentionally increasing labor costs as being the rationale for deportations.

That's too bad, because intentionally decreasing labor costs is one of the rationales for unlimited immigration. You might not be interested in how the supply of labor affects wages, but it's interested in you.

Blogger VFM 188 October 22, 2015 5:26 PM  

Just a thought: That's not dog-piling by SciVo above. It's...energetic disputation. Dog-piling is snarky, insulting and dismissive, as in "you suck, and so does your dog." My take anyway. (Not tone-policing! I claim innocence!)

Blogger Sevron October 22, 2015 5:33 PM  

Tex-Mex is the greatest food ever. That guy can fuck off.

Blogger Rabbi B October 22, 2015 5:57 PM  

@170 VFM 188

"Just a thought: That's not dog-piling by SciVo above. It's...energetic disputation. Dog-piling is snarky, insulting and dismissive, as in "you suck, and so does your dog." My take anyway."

Your take is off. No one said Leo sucked (or his dog). They just pointed out that his thinking was constipated on some points; but he refused to take the laxative being offered by those who knew better than he did. In other words, VD, Nate, Josh, et al, disputed energetically and intelligently.

e.g. @101 VD

Leo, you have a serious problem with your refusal to grasp that theory does not apply equally to all situations. And your emotional reaction to substantive criticism and resort to exaggerated rhetoric doesn't make you look any more knowledgeable. I know Mises better than you do. Nate does too. You're not arguing anything we don't know.

You just don't seem to grasp that it can't be applied in all circumstances. Sometimes capital can make labor more valuable. But usually, it doesn't. And that is a separate issue from technological advancement, to which you appear to now be mistakenly appealing.


Even after this and similar comments, Leo stubbornly refused to concede any points to those who were disputing energetically and intelligently, but instead continued reacting and reinforcing (energetically, mind you) points that had been shown to be unsound. Dog-piling and snark are the least of his concerns.

And if you're so concerned about poor Leo, why not simply offer your own arguments in support of his position?

"(Not tone-policing! I claim innocence!)"

To which I am going to call BS. This is not the first time you've complained about *snark* and dog-piling.

(BTW I remember Marissa getting schooled and pummeled a few months back on some topic. No whining. She just continued to make her points and drove on. No big deal iirc.)

OpenID JonasN October 22, 2015 6:22 PM  

"until Teddy Kennedy opened the floodgates to the Third World in 1965."

Not sure why Ann keeps harping on this "Teddy Kennedy" thing. He was a dullard and a junior senator in 1965 without a lot of actual "sway." The real villain behind the '65 act was NY House Rep. Emanuel Celler, who actually voted against the original 1924 act and spent much of his career trying to get it repealed. The main malefactor in the Senate was Michigan's Philip Hart.

Hart and Celler's names need to be promulgated more widely, and their motives exposed. Brooklyn-based Celler in particular seemed to want to wage a war against WASP America. Ann should point that out instead of just pinning it all on a dunce like Ted.

Blogger Unknown October 22, 2015 6:24 PM  

@VFM 188

Nations graded on skin colour, eh? Gee, that's new.

Blogger Sevron October 22, 2015 6:45 PM  

That's good dialectic, but horrible rhetoric. It's common knowledge that Kennedy is the public face of that legislation, he's hated by the right and all right-thinking people, and nobody has a clue who those other guys are.

It's like those people who want to call them Social Justice Losers instead if SJWs because it's more accurate.

Blogger VFM 188 October 22, 2015 6:56 PM  

@Unknown: Who said anything about "grading" anyone? Certainly not me, and certainly not on the basis of skin color (heaven forfend). I'm merely offering a solution to the problems you pointed out, i.e. how white people mess everything up and think they're better than everyone else and always claim the accomplishments of others is theirs. My suggestion solves the problem quite neatly I thought. What I'm calling for, of course, is more diversity! Many cultures, many societies, many countries, many polities. What could be wrong with that? What could be wrong with such extended diversity?

Blogger Marie October 22, 2015 6:58 PM  

@162 Groot

Thanks! When in Rome, right?

Seriously, I appreciate the tip. Didn't even realize I was doing it yesterday.

Blogger Cee October 22, 2015 7:04 PM  

@169 SciVo

Just to be clear, I'm looking at this for the charts and not the recommendations we protected """"undocumented"""" workers to reduce income inequality, yeah?

Blogger Groot October 22, 2015 7:10 PM  

@172 Rabbi B.:

I have to step in here to tone-police your tone-policing of 188's tone-policing, because irony.

@164 Unknown:

And what could be more ironic than the brave anti-racist trumpeting what all white people do all the time? That's Unknown.

@177. Marie:

You betcha. It was ironic, to pursue a theme here, on an OP about how women talk. :)

Blogger Jourdan October 22, 2015 7:22 PM  

Ryan just announced to the Republican caucus that he's running despite not getting his demand of support from all the caucus' groupings and a way out of the motion to vacate the chair matter. In short, the fix is in. He got the maximum he was going to get and he'll now march lock-step to the chair.

The Republican Party is beneath contempt. Here on Capitol Hill there isn't even a PRETENSE that they are really in opposition. They speak loudly and openly about how they need to fight the conservatives who make them do bad stuff, the admit proudly that they can't advance the conservative agenda, they capitulate at the first opportunity to back-slapping.

A proven loser as leader in the House and a grinning retard with a mail order bride in the Senate.

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 7:27 PM  

> And what would you see? ... 6 black guys leaning on shovels or in the shade, and 1 actually digging or doing some apparent work.

Please. Those are state workers. You'll see that no matter what race they are.

> It's hardly surprising Leo's getting pissed off. He's been subjected to continuous snark-attacks by Nate, Josh, Dexter, and their fanboi's all day.

I'm nobody's fanboi.

> Leo is right on some stuff, doubtful or wrong on others

The problem isn't what he's right or wrong about, it's that he's misapplying what he knows. He's making arguments that don't apply to the situation being discussed.

> It's not possible to give as good as you get facing this mob,

Sure it is. But he doesn't need to. All he needs to do is make applicable arguments backing his position. Most of us here are willing to admit that we could be wrong. But you have to demonstrate that we are, or at least offer a convincing alternative explanation.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 7:28 PM  

No. Dog-piling is unseemly, whether Leo has a partly stupid handle or not.

We don't care

Blogger Nate October 22, 2015 8:07 PM  

"No. Dog-piling is unseemly, whether Leo has a partly stupid handle or not. "

When you say something observably and obviously false in a smug manner as Leo you did... you should expect to get your teeth kicked in around here.

Multiple times.

Read his original comments. they drip condescension. That's why he got his shit pushed in. everyone can be wrong. But being a dick and being wrong is a good way to end up with a limp.

And yes... his handle sure as hell doesn't help.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 22, 2015 8:24 PM  

@181 James Dixon

Please. Those are state workers. You'll see that no matter what race they are.
----

Nobody told the Mexicans apparently.

Blogger Desiderius October 22, 2015 8:34 PM  

"obviously false in a smug manner"

Obvious to whom? Came across to me more incredulous than smug.

If you're hoping to persuade any actual capitalists, you'll need to keep in mind that they've likely only heard the arguments you're making coming from the economically illiterate. Vox hints at some interesting reasoning behind those arguments, and things are messed up enough that you'll probably find some sympathetic ears, but you've got to make the case. They're not just going to trust you on it, and condescension of your own will get you exactly nowhere.

Immigration restriction is going to happen - it's always ebbed and flowed throughout American history and we're overdue for an ebb. People who've supported immigration their whole lives are looking for a rationalization they can buy to back what they can feel is becoming the strong horse. Anything you can offer beyond insults is appreciated.

Blogger Rabbi B October 22, 2015 8:34 PM  

@179 Groot

Yes. My hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Blogger James Dixon October 22, 2015 8:36 PM  

> ... but you've got to make the case.

What part of the law of supply and demand do we need to demonstrate?

Blogger Sevron October 22, 2015 9:48 PM  

Proposing that an increase in supply leads to an increase in demand is a perfectly cromulent position.

Blogger Groot October 22, 2015 9:53 PM  

@186. Rabbi B:

You don't really believe that.

Blogger Desiderius October 22, 2015 10:41 PM  

"What part of the law of supply and demand do we need to demonstrate?"

Wage levels do not exist in a vacuum, as you know. I'm interested in what is blocking productivity gains from being reflected in real wages/widespread capital gains, i.e. increased overall wealth should increase overall demand. If it's not, what's stopping it? Or is the argument that its being diverted to lower-wage jobs? Where then is the extra wealth going? Is it all being soaked up by the increased supply? Blown on malinvestment?

Again, I've got my own rough ideas, but some help on relative magnitudes, at least, would be appreciated.

"You just don't seem to grasp that it can't be applied in all circumstances. Sometimes capital can make labor more valuable. But usually, it doesn't. And that is a separate issue from technological advancement, to which you appear to now be mistakenly appealing."

What criteria (preferably quantifiable, roughly) are used to judge these trade-offs? Technical advancement came up as a counter-example to the "capital doesn't matter" argument.

Blogger VFM 188 October 22, 2015 10:44 PM  

Look Rabbi, it's not tone policing when objecting to orcs using snotty, snarky remarks to bolster their arguments. Here are some things said to Leo in this thread:

* hey surgartits... that's cute and all... but that's not how it works.
* No dumbass. You know you're wrong.
* increasing worker production reduces demand you cumquat brained mid-wit.
* and you just proved you know far more austrian economics than the mid-wit here.
* I'm really glad WhiteKnightLeo is here to teach us all Econ 101.
What would we do without his knowledge?
* What would we do without his knowledge? Oh, I think we'd muddle through somehow. :)
* Leo... stop digging this hole deeper. You're burying yourself in your own ignorance.
* You know, if he just had access to capital, he could dig his hole even faster...
* Nah, let's give him a shovel and see what happens.

Those are good arguments in a fight over the application of Austrian economic principles? Look, I admit, I just don't like snot and snark. Leo was challenged and disputed strongly by a number of commenters, including Vox (and was supported by others), and all that's fair. But the snotty, snarky remarks can get old and excessive, not to mention irrelevant. Perhaps the causticism makes it more entertaining, but I'm not a fan (although I did appreciate Nate's apology, "I'm sorry you're a dumb dumb"). And that doesn't factor in the people who are discouraged from adding their thoughts for fear of being ridiculed. The only person here who can dictate what to say and not say is the Dark Lord himself, cause he owns the platform. He hasn't told me I can't bitch about excessive snark-attacks, so Rabbi's anti-tone policing tone policing aimed at me won't work (thank you Groot; you are Groot). Hah! Fuckin' fanboi's!

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:51 PM  

Those are good arguments in a fight over the application of Austrian economic principles?

No, that was switching to rhetoric after we had made our good arguments and Leo ignored them.

And that doesn't factor in the people who are discouraged from adding their thoughts for fear of being ridiculed.

Are you saying we need to make this blog a safe space for people's precious thoughts?

Look...stupid thoughts are going to get ridiculed. Every single person here--Nate, myself, and even Vox, has gotten their ass handed to them at one time or another.

Blogger Josh October 22, 2015 11:52 PM  

Look Rabbi, it's not tone policing when objecting to orcs using snotty, snarky remarks to bolster their arguments.

That's exactly what it is.

OpenID Jack Amok October 23, 2015 12:00 AM  

Wage levels do not exist in a vacuum...increased overall wealth should increase overall demand.

Who said we have increased overall wealth? We might have more money, but money ain't wealth, it's a measurement of wealth, and given our losey-goosey fiat system, it's one where the size of the units are constantly changed.

More significantly, we don't have capital investment. We aren't building factories or skill in running the machinery of factories. We are building retail malls, bureaucrat cubicle farms, and government facilities. We're turning abandoned port facilities and industrial parks into Wal Marts and Costcos.

Blogger Josh October 23, 2015 12:01 AM  

We're turning abandoned port facilities and industrial parks into Wal Marts and Costcos.

Welcome to Costco, I love you.

OpenID Jack Amok October 23, 2015 12:07 AM  

hey surgartits... that's cute and all... but that's not how it works....Those are good arguments in a fight over the application of Austrian economic principles?

Nah, that's just Nate giving Leo a shit test.

Leo didn't pass.

Because his reply was "Actually that's Austrian School of Economics 101. So sayeth Mises." You've been around here a while. Do you really think adopting the tone of a professor lecturing noobs about Austrian Economics and Mises is going to go over very well when you are disagreeing with Vox and Nate?

You know, the guys who squared off the The Great Economic Debate?

Leo tried to bluster his way with name dropping and he dropped the names right on his own big toe.

Blogger Josh October 23, 2015 12:22 AM  

"hey surgartits" is a relatively nice thing Nate says.

For example:

186. Nate October 20, 2015 11:56 AM
"It's only natural for relatives to support one another..."

Fuck you Josh.

Blogger Sevron October 23, 2015 12:52 AM  

Perhaps it was an offer.

Blogger Desiderius October 23, 2015 2:40 AM  

Jack,

"Wage levels do not exist in a vacuum...increased overall wealth should increase overall demand.

Who said we have increased overall wealth?"

I was replying to James Dixon's question in comment 176, which was a question of general principles. On general principle, if overall wealth increases, so should overall demand, unless it's going somewhere else, in which case the law of supply and demand alone is not enough to get a handle on the problem, which was my point.

Another way to look at it is that overall wealth has unquestionably increased over the last, say, 300 years, as has the supply of labor. Have real wages increased or decreased over that time?

Certainly the last 30 years have not been so rosy. What accounts for the change? In his original comment, Leo makes some eminently reasonable suggestions on the demand side, with which your account of our malinvestment in fact agrees, others on the supply side. It doesn't seem unlikely that both could be right regarding the recent past, but in the long run Leo's account seems a better fit for the data.

As for the mutual AMOGging, the ilk wins by squatter's rights. Hazing has a purpose. I just enjoy reading Vox's (and the ilk's) heterodox reasoning, especially when I'm skeptical of the argument being advanced.

Blogger VFM 188 October 23, 2015 8:07 AM  

Well, having slept on it for a night...yaah. It's true, the sniping and bitching and bitch-slapping here is just...undeniably entertaining. And it's a very high level of bitch-slapping and orc'ing. So I hereby withdraw all my measured, concerned objections, and substitute a single appreciative asserveration:

As we say in the South...Fuck all y'all. Including you, Leo. And especially you, Rabbi. :--)

1 – 200 of 227 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts