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Saturday, October 10, 2015

The non-negotiable invasion

Angela Merqel declares a Muslim Europe is non-negotiable:
“The eastern Europeans – and I’m counting myself as an eastern European – we have experienced that isolation doesn’t help,” she said, sources told Politico.

“It makes me a bit sad that precisely those who can consider themselves lucky that they have lived to see the end of the Cold War now think that one can completely stay out of certain developments of globalization.”

Merkel acknowledged that eastern European countries were being asked to catch up very fast on developments in tolerance and diversity that had taken the West decades.

But “when someone says, ‘this is not my Europe, I won’t accept Muslims…’ then I have to say, this is not negotiable,” she insisted.
Who said anything about negotiating? The politicians didn't negotiate with the people about inviting the Muslims. It seems unlikely that the people will believe it necessary to negotiate with the politicians about sending them back home.


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58 Comments:

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 10, 2015 5:28 AM  

The eastern Europeans – and I’m counting myself as an eastern European – we have experienced that isolation doesn’t help

So the former Eastern Block countries aren't far enough to the left for Merkal?

It's hard to tell from America but is pan-slavism on the rise again?

Looks like it to me. All the resistance to the EU sanctioned Muslim invasion has been from them. Western Europe looks to be resentful of the invasion but nobody is marching in the streets.

The real tell are the Czechs. Germanic when the mood strikes them and Slavic when it pleases. The doctor from yesterday's letter took it for granted that the Czech Republic was safe. The Czechs are turning Slovak.

So why are the Slavs able to find the nationalist will, as opposed to the European Won't?

Blogger SirThermite (VFM #0025) October 10, 2015 6:32 AM  

It's unbelievably raciss for Germany to accept uneducated Africans and Muslims rather than the billions of Chinese and Indians (dot, not feather) desiring better handouts and opportunity. Same goes for the U.S. favoring Hispanic immigrants. Invaders need to be taught to check their geographical privilege, but they're not. Wow. Just wow.

Blogger Markku October 10, 2015 6:35 AM  

We read you Kristall-clear, Angela.

-The Germans

Blogger JAY WILL October 10, 2015 6:50 AM  

Somebody wants a war. They can't all be this stupid.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 10, 2015 7:00 AM  

Women being women, self destructive positive feed back loop, back to the kitchen ladies.

My little idea for the Germans and I seriously doubt those authoritarian douches will use it but I will offer it up. Line up for your little gun licenses, everyone of you.

OpenID simplytimothy October 10, 2015 7:26 AM  

It makes me a bit sad that precisely those who can consider themselves lucky that they have lived to see the end of the Cold War now think that one can completely stay out of certain developments of globalization.”

That is the unspoken attitude I see here in the U.S.

Will they hang Merkel by the neck? or upside down after being shot, like Mussolini? Better, will she change her mind?

We will not be slaves of these stupid men and women who purport to rule us.

Blogger Amethyst Dominica October 10, 2015 7:30 AM  

Are women in Europe so desperate for dominant men to grant them vagina-tingles that they'll open the floodgates to the Sharia Legions? Or are they like the proverbial Crazy Cat Lady, sucking in feline hardcases like a vacuum, unaware that her resources are being depleted while her supply of cat feces and urine are being stocked to overflowing? There's some pathology at work here...

Blogger Amethyst Dominica October 10, 2015 7:38 AM  

We will not be slaves of these stupid men and women who purport to rule us.

We'll shut up and stay put as long as the bread and circuses are flowing. The average poor chump in the US lives like a proverbial prince compared to the Middle Class throughout most of history. Think most people are going to give that up in exchange for a world where their benefits aren't guaranteed (even if those benefits pale in comparison to the vast amounts of graft skimmed off by the political and money classes?)

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 10, 2015 7:50 AM  

One shit test after another, how does one handle shit tests from our feminine overlords?

Blogger Stilicho #0066 October 10, 2015 8:06 AM  

@9 keep your pimp hand strong!

Merkel could not come up with a better plan to drive eastern Europe back into the Russian sphere if she wanted to...hey, wait a minute...

She seems a bit too nostalgic for the "good old days" when she was an admitted communist and Soviet puppet.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 10, 2015 8:13 AM  

Interesting correlation. If your society produces attractive traditionally feminine women, it remains vibrant.

Men become what women want them to be.

The strongest sub-cultures in the US, have the most attractive women. I've seen both sides of that coin and it is as clear as night and day. Our women are way better looking.


Blogger Phillip George October 10, 2015 8:23 AM  

All the teenage feel good girl guide boy scout do good saccharine sophomoric freemasonic universal brotherhood of man 'shit' doesn't stop a cannibal from eating you.

The delusions of moral adequacy of a secularist and a muslim are common ground until each tries to assert their superiority.

But with empiricism to guide us, a bible, a book of common prayer [fourth most printed book in history] and actual history of jurisprudence let me put it this way. Nothing has united mankind like 'sinner's saved by the grace of God'.

It does something profound. It's the actual leveler in economics, jurisprudence, politics, social structure. There's no "good" in it. No fig leaves of delusional pride.

Whatever underground government you are, whether it's one or a hundred, a government in exile or merely subversive underground of truth. Write Jesus into your constitution. It's Europe's only reliable history. cheers

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 10, 2015 8:26 AM  

@11

Example:

There was a segment on a show about American Gypsies.

Two groups of Romani girls, were bitching about each other. The group that the producers wanted us to like and identify with were fat and unattractive but they were ambitious! They wanted to graduate from community college and then may be get a real degree. And then who knows...?

The ones we were so supposed to view with contempt were all slim and beautiful and kept their homes clean. That seemed to be the thing that really drove the fat gypsy girls nuts, "They just clean. They clean all the time. They don't want to do nuthin but clean. I want to do things."

And what things are those fat one?

The question that must never be answered.

Blogger bob k. mando October 10, 2015 8:27 AM  

5. Mr.MantraMan October 10, 2015 7:00 AM
Women being women, self destructive positive feed back loop, back to the kitchen ladies.



oh, this is a 'female' problem?

then perhaps you should point me at the large number of male German bureaucrats who disagree with her?

the Globalist Internationalist conspiracy has been running since at least the mid-1800s ... and all the founding thinkers were men.

this is not to completely disagree with your assertion that many women create self-destructive feed back loops ... they do ( Teresa Earnhardt, for one ).

but men are not immune to this either.

Blogger Salt October 10, 2015 8:37 AM  

“The refugees won’t be stopped if we just build fences. That I’m deeply convinced of, and I’ve lived behind a fence for long enough,” she said."

That fence divided ~family. There's nothing remotely ~family about these invaders. Merkel is now into the 3rd law. She's projecting. She's also doubled down. It's going to get ugly sooner than expected.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 10, 2015 8:38 AM  

Bob the loose hypothesis that the leftard brain is feminine and the cucktard is her beta.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 10, 2015 8:40 AM  

And I agree with Heartise white women quietly put back in the background enough of their pedalization. Which has been done as propaganda against us easy enough

Blogger bob k. mando October 10, 2015 8:41 AM  

16. Mr.MantraMan October 10, 2015 8:38 AM
Bob the loose hypothesis that the leftard brain is feminine



i actually agree with this.

but feminine / effeminate are not the same thing as 'women'.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 October 10, 2015 9:42 AM  

@18 better tell Bruce Jenner before it's too late!

Blogger Cail Corishev October 10, 2015 10:01 AM  

Yeah, right now in the US, there's some danger that John Boehner, inspired to tears by his meeting with Francis, may push for amnesty for illegals as his legacy. If Boehner were the German PM, he'd be as bad as Merkel, if not worse.

Putting women in power is extremely stupid, but it's not the problem here.

Blogger Noah B #120 October 10, 2015 10:14 AM  

And what things are those fat one?

The question that must never be answered.


The answer is obvious. Eat this, eat that, eat something else.

Blogger bob k. mando October 10, 2015 10:24 AM  

19. Stilicho #0066 October 10, 2015 9:42 AM
@18 better tell Bruce Jenner before it's too late!



better tell the cisgendered radfems, before they get accused of lesbian normative privilege.

OpenID Steve October 10, 2015 10:26 AM  

Western Europe looks to be resentful of the invasion but nobody is marching in the streets

Puffs marched with skinheads to protest Lee Rigby's beheading in broad daylight on the streets of London but you wouldn't know it if you got your news from Carlos Slims and 5 jews.

@18 better tell Bruce Jenner before it's too late! Steve Sailer said Jenner use to much roids which killed his ability to make Testosterone. If so we will have most of the NFL wearing dresses in a few decades

John Boehner, inspired to tears by his meeting with Francis,may push for amnesty for illegals as his legacy

So you don't think the pics of him at Epstein island are not enough incentive

John Boehner, inspired to tears by his meeting with Francis, may push for amnesty for illegals as his legacy

His legacy should be his children, he thinks they wont have to suffer being around Hispanics, well there is only one way to be sure they don't.

Blogger Zaklog the Great October 10, 2015 10:31 AM  

Is there a single issue the left cares about that they consider negotiable or debatable or up for discussion? Global warming - the science is settled. You're just a denier. Homosexual "marriage" - the Supreme Court has spoken, the only possible motive for dissent is hatred. Amnesty, abortion, gun control . . . What exactly are they willing to consider "debatable"?

Blogger The Other Robot October 10, 2015 10:53 AM  

Puffs marched with skinheads to protest Lee Rigby's beheading

A lot of Germans use ups for oops as well ...

OpenID LL October 10, 2015 11:50 AM  

Merqel, I see what you did there.

~LL #0002

Blogger Crude October 10, 2015 12:16 PM  

One problem. Does Western Europe really have a choice? And I don't mean in terms of willpower. I mean economically.

My understanding - and it is perhaps naive - is that Western Europe is dying. They aren't having children. They have a greying older population. Japan is not contemplating massive immigration while being in a similar situation, but they are contemplating (to the surprise of no one) building robots to take over all kinds of work, on the grounds that they absolutely need more workers coming into their economy.

Let's say tomorrow PEGIDA wins. Germany freezes out its immigration entirely. What's next? Getting all the young germans to have families has proven to be so difficult, even the japanese outperform them.

I know Vox shows those pictures of the young nationalist Europeans. I don't doubt they exist. But do young nationalist european women want large families?

Blogger Marcus Marcellus October 10, 2015 12:28 PM  

Martin Armstrong says thew following regarding Merkel (Oct 10 2015):

"My sources relay that the immigration issue was adopted by Merkel because her policy on Greece made her appear nasty inside Europe. So she accepted the migrants to change her image in the aftermath of Greece. Then Obama praised her and the next day she said there was no limit. Then she was up for the Nobel Peace Prize, but has now lost."

OpenID Steve October 10, 2015 12:31 PM  

What's next? Getting all the young germans to have families has proven to be so difficult, even the japanese outperform them.

German youth wont have to live in an apartment the size of walk in closet when they grow up is a good reason to not add negative producers to society. Every illegal alien from the southern border is expected to have a net lifetime cost of $500K to the tax rolls by people who are overly optimistic.

Blogger Zaklog the Great October 10, 2015 12:57 PM  

@27 I am troubled that Vox has never addressed this issue, and from what I've heard, I agree with you. It appears that a post-religious society with broad access to artificial birth control simply will not reproduce itself. If anyone can point to a counterexample, I'd be very interested. Perhaps the only answer is a genuine return of Christendom.

Blogger Crude October 10, 2015 1:18 PM  

30,

Vox may have and I just missed it. I also suspect that it ties in with Vox's prediction about the likely future of a post-Christendom world, which won't be all Star Trek quasi-utopia, but something far more nasty and messy.

I oppose illegal immigration, and even excessive legal immigration. My definition of 'excessive' at this point would basically be 'Any, for five years at least, in America'. But I also don't want to oversimplify the situation.

And the thing is, we have a model onhand for a country with demographics similar to Europe's, but with essentially zero immigration: Japan. Very different culture, only so much can be gleaned from it. But it's still a point of comparison.

Blogger kurt9 October 10, 2015 2:00 PM  

I think Vox is correct that most of Europe is two election cycles from the end of the EU. From what I'm seeing in the media and the internet (of course it could all be made up non-sense, but I don't think so), I simply do not believe that the situation can continue forever without the native Europeans getting fed-up with it.

Blogger Danby October 10, 2015 2:03 PM  

When there can not be negotiation, there remains only subjugation.

Blogger Marcus Marcellus October 10, 2015 2:12 PM  

@33 Dandy:

Or war.

Blogger Zaklog the Great October 10, 2015 2:12 PM  

@31 Nah, I've been reading this blog for about a year now, and I have never seen Vox address the issue of fertility as it affects the question of immigration. Now, to be fair, he has addressed the dyscivic aspects of modern equality movements, one of which is the breakdown of strong family structures, but he has not connected the two that I've seen.

I am open to correction on this if I'm wrong.

Blogger Thordaddy October 10, 2015 2:23 PM  

Women, women, women....

No you fools... Look at the mug!!!

That's DYKE face IMPOSING DYKE "nature..." A self-annihilating "nature."

You faggots need to quit screeching "woman" and put your dykes in their place or does Butch have your panties in a bunch?

Blogger Ragin' Dave October 10, 2015 2:29 PM  

@35 - it's a matter of culture. Every leftist culture ends up with declining birthrates. In major liberal areas here in the USA you see lots of one-kid or no-kid families. The groups with large families are the more conservative folks, be they religious or not. If your reason for living is finding a newer, better orgasm (as most liberal ideologies devolve to) then kids are an impediment to your life. If your reason for living is to improve your sphere of influence and leave a better world for the people you love, then having kids is a necessary part of that.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 10, 2015 3:47 PM  

@24 Zaklog the Great
Is there a single issue the left cares about that they consider negotiable or debatable or up for discussion? Global warming - the science is settled. You're just a denier. Homosexual "marriage" - the Supreme Court has spoken, the only possible motive for dissent is hatred. Amnesty, abortion, gun control . . . What exactly are they willing to consider "debatable"?
---

This is a great question, and has me puzzled for years. Why is it the left gains are considered set in stone? I've never understood it.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 10, 2015 3:50 PM  

@27 Crude
My understanding - and it is perhaps naive - is that Western Europe is dying. They aren't having children. They have a greying older population.
---

Then is this not all the more reason to protect the existing people from invaders raping, murdering, stealing, and generally setting them back in every way imaginable?

Blogger Crude October 10, 2015 4:12 PM  

@39:

Then is this not all the more reason to protect the existing people from invaders raping, murdering, stealing, and generally setting them back in every way imaginable?

Yes, except for the fact that they apparently need workers. Again, I look at Japan. Massive immigration isn't considered realistic there - you have a monolithic culture that, even on the left apparently, does not seriously contemplate letting in a few million muslims or even white people, to be frank. But they still recognize that they have a demographic problem on their hands, for which immigration is seen as at least a partial solution by others.

Japan's response to that seems to be a mix of strong nationalism, robot R&D, and trying to encourage women to have children. That last part's tricky, and let's face it - Japan's fucked up. I mean even beyond the norm. At this point you have to come up with a powerful marketing campaign just to convince a lot of them to have sex at all, a prospect which would have been kicked out of sci-fi once upon a time as too unrealistic.

What will the Germans do if they stop all immigration? Now, I can imagine things I'd like to see them do: embrace Christianity and values that encourage a more traditional way of living. Pulling that off would be one hell of a trick. They have trouble even convincing a sizable portion of their rotten culture that massive influxes of muslims from comparatively hostile cultures is a bad thing. Go ahead, tell German women they should have five kids and settle down instead of pursuing their dream career. Record their reactions, I want to see that go down. Tell the German men they should do the same thing.

I don't think this is news to anyone. I doubt Vox thinks that stopping immigration would be anything more than a Phase 1 for securing the west. But Phase 2? That's a trick to pull off, whatever form it takes.

Blogger Keoni Galt October 10, 2015 6:12 PM  

Now, to be fair, he has addressed the dyscivic aspects of modern equality movements, one of which is the breakdown of strong family structures, but he has not connected the two that I've seen.

I am open to correction on this if I'm wrong.


You say you've been reading here for a year? This one was posted only 6 months ago.

http://www.voxday.blogspot.com/2015/04/breed-to-win.html

Blogger Keoni Galt October 10, 2015 6:42 PM  

This is a great question, and has me puzzled for years. Why is it the left gains are considered set in stone? I've never understood it.

It's nothing more than applied mathematics for the purpose of social engineering society and culture.

It's called the Hegelian Dialectic. Thesis + Anti-Thesis = Synthesis.

The liberal "progressive" revolution always seeks to push the envelope to obliterate traditional cultural norms.

The conservatives of the present are always fighting to conserve the liberal gains of the previous generation.

Every new Thesis is based off of the previous Synthesis.

Best example of the present era?

The Institution of Marriage.

The conservatives tried to fight divorce and out-of-wedlock child bearing back in the 80's....which was the fruit of the cultural revolution of the 60's. By the 00's, the "conservatives" conserve the "progress" of the 80's by venerating heroic single-mother martyrdom and accepting the Divorce Industrial Complex in the name of helping teh womynz have an escape route in the event they happen to find themselves in an "abusive" or "controlling" marriage.

Now they are only concerned with "saving" marriage from teh Gayz.

Once synthesis is achieved, a new dialectic equation commences, with the prior synthesis serving as the brand new thesis.

In the future, you can count on the "conservatives" who will try to SAVE MARRIAGE for teh Gayz, straights and transgendered, by opposing the movement for equal rights for pedophiles to "marry" their juvenile prey.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 10, 2015 7:00 PM  

It's called the Hegelian Dialectic.

You said a mouthful. Some big things that had long puzzled me, especially within the Catholic Church over the past 60 years, clicked into place once I learned about Hegel and his influence on philosophy (and through it theology).

Blogger James Dixon October 10, 2015 7:39 PM  

> What exactly are they willing to consider "debatable"?

How much less of your own property and earnings the state should allow you to keep (it's always less, never more). How much more of your life the state should control (it's always more, never less).

> Getting all the young germans to have families has proven to be so difficult,

Ban contraceptives and abortion. Problem solved.

> ...It appears that a post-religious society with broad access to artificial birth control simply will not reproduce itself.

See above.

> I am open to correction on this if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. I believe he discussed exactly the solution I mentioned above at one time.

> That's DYKE face IMPOSING DYKE "nature..." A self-annihilating "nature."

Damn. I agree with Thordaddy about something. I'm pretty sure that's one of the signs of the apocalypse. She looks like a younger, slightly more overweight Hillary.

Blogger Keoni Galt October 10, 2015 7:41 PM  

Some big things that had long puzzled me, especially within the Catholic Church over the past 60 years, clicked into place

It's really simple when you understand how it works. Understanding it was my epiphany that cured me from my own right wing, neo-con-Republican kool aid addiction.

I laugh whenever I see useful idiots and/or shills that invoke the "Slippery Slope Fallacy" to discount a point of contention.

The slippery slope is just an allegory to explain the Hegelian Dialectic.

I think a rolling snowball gaining in size and speed as at careens down a snow-covered slope and eventually becoming an avalanche is a more accurate depiction.

Blogger ajw308 (#98) October 10, 2015 8:07 PM  

is that Western Europe is dying. They aren't having children.
They are having children, but it's below the replacement rate. Either way, Western Culture in Europe is under attack and the States is next. it's not about the children, it's about the tech in Britain, France, &Germany. Do you really want the radical Muzzies havung all that fall into their hands?

Blogger Cail Corishev October 10, 2015 8:29 PM  

On demographics and low birth rate: it seems like we've gone from no one thinking about that, to people over-stressing it. A low birth rate can become a high birth rate pretty quickly, or vice versa. Just in the last several years we've seen the African birth rate (or at least the estimates of it) skyrocket, and the mestizo invader birth rate in the US drop down nearly to match the white one. Bring on some economic hardship or some policy changes, and you could see the white birth rate jump up to 3-4 in a decade.

"Demographics is destiny" is true, but it's not immutable destiny. It can change, and will change if other things change. On the other hand, it won't change if nothing else changes, so there's not much point in focusing on it directly -- focus on the things that could change it.

Blogger Crude October 10, 2015 8:41 PM  

They are having children, but it's below the replacement rate.

Potaytoh, potahtoh. They're a dying people. Stop immigration today and the fundamental problem hasn't been solved. It's not even recognized as a problem by many people.

Either way, Western Culture in Europe is under attack and the States is next. it's not about the children, it's about the tech in Britain, France, &Germany. Do you really want the radical Muzzies havung all that fall into their hands?

Last I checked, Western Culture was under attack by other westerners.

Islam didn't impose abortion on the west.
Or feminism.
Or anti-Christianism.
Or massive immigration.
Or gun control.
Or gay marriage.
Or barring prayer in school, plus mandatory public schooling.

And the list goes on. That was imposed by the western secular liberals and SJWs, in the areas where it has in fact been imposed. Come to think of it, immigration itself is being imposed by western secular liberals, not the muslims themselves. They're just benefiting from SJW insanity.

Now, ISIS is composed of absolute monsters who I'd like to see wiped out (and Putin may well be about to do exactly that.) And I would love to see western europe restored to its former glory. But stopping immigration would at most be a first step in that direction. I am not wringing my hands with worry that, in 20 years, the imam of Paris may forbid gay marriage. Frankly I'd find that pretty amusing.

Blogger Crude October 10, 2015 8:45 PM  

Cail,

"Demographics is destiny" is true, but it's not immutable destiny. It can change, and will change if other things change. On the other hand, it won't change if nothing else changes, so there's not much point in focusing on it directly -- focus on the things that could change it.

Sure. What would change it, then? Europe and Japan have both been wringing their hands for a while now, trying to figure out the 'focus on the things that could change it' aspect. What was their recipe - more and more child day care and such? 'Making it easier for a woman to have a career AND a family.'? How's that working out? Frankly, they're absolutely petrified of saying outright that women should be getting married and having children. And getting married to a -man-? That's frightening and devalues loving relationships of same-sex couples, or whatever other bullshit that's popular right now.

Yes, you can turn that kind of thing around in a heartbeat in theory. But how do you get it to turn around? 'Ban contraception and abortion' sounds great, but who's supporting that? I suspect it isn't that next generation of nationalists; perhaps I'm wrong on that front. But if I am, it's because I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that starting a large family is concerned important for said nationalists.

Blogger Keoni Galt October 10, 2015 9:01 PM  

There's only one ban that would work to reverse-engineer post-Christian societal entropy: utterly banning usury....aka resorting to violence to throw the money changers out of the temple.

Usury gave THEY their power to corrupt our churches, corrupt our schools, corrupt our governments and corrupt our families.

Ending usury would be disarming THEY of their most powerful weapon. As long as THEY have usury as their weapon, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 10, 2015 9:12 PM  

Sure. What would change it, then?

I threw out a few things in a recent thread: stop handing out free contraception like candy, raise the child tax credit, stop paying girls to get useless degrees, ease restrictions on home businesses, increase tax incentives to give to (and thus belong to) a church, increase incentives for home/property ownership. It also wouldn't hurt to have leaders who call children a blessing again, instead of talking about a baby as a punishment or ridiculing people with large families as "breeding like rabbits."

But the wider point I was trying to make: people are saying Vox doesn't talk about demographics, and I'm saying he talks about the things that could improve the demographic picture (though he does talk about demographics as well). If you want women to have more kids, you can't just tell them to have more kids; they'll dig in their heels and go fallow just to spite you. You have to give them incentives and then they'll stop fighting their natural desire for motherhood.

I'm not guaranteeing we can accomplish those things, but if we want to change the demographics, that's how to do it, not by fretting about the birth rate directly. On the other hand, if you just want to say, "We're doomed and there's nothing we can do," have fun with that, but I don't find it an interesting discussion.

OpenID Steve October 10, 2015 9:30 PM  

@35 I have never seen Vox address the issue of fertility as it affects the question of immigration

I am pretty sure he has said the worst that could happen if you kicked all the 3rd worlders out is less people having to work hard to support latrina's 27 illegitimate crack babies that can then save up to have families of their own. If the population drops while still being the same population the costs will go down and k style people will have more kids as it will be easier to. Most of the 1st world only has conservatives breeding,(which is why they try to import the 3rd world that will be too stupid to do anything but vote for more free stuff). One of the reasons gay jews hate Bibi is that only religious+conservative jews are breeding and might change the laws of Israel. Asians and whites under stress tend to have less kids while R style evolved people have more under stress.

stop handing out free contraception like candy, raise the child tax credit, stop paying girls to get useless degrees

Having the govt play the role of husband certainly doesn't help matters, when illegals come to the US Uncle Sam takes the place of the source of handouts instead of the church.

Blogger Crude October 10, 2015 9:32 PM  

Cail,

I'm trying not to be a buzzkill - that's a Porky thing, and my aim here isn't to be the guy saying it's all hopeless. I find that as useless, not to mention as annoying, as you likely do. At the same time I don't want to engage in other kinds of make-believe, and pretending that it's the muslims who are principally at war with western civilization is a joke. Western civilization is at war with western civilization - SJWs are using muslims to attack it.

I'm not guaranteeing we can accomplish those things, but if we want to change the demographics, that's how to do it, not by fretting about the birth rate directly.

I only fret about the birth rate because it's central, and I further agree that Vox has talked about these things in the past. The main problem there being, Vox talks about it. I'm not sure the nationalists ever do. Do they? I have no idea, I don't speak scandinavian.

Anyway, it's clearly regarded here as another problem that needs to be tackled. The remaining question is how to tackle it.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 10, 2015 9:47 PM  

Crude, I don't know if they talk about it either, since I don't happen to follow anyone who's focused specifically on nationalism. And I agree with you that demographics is central, but it's still a symptom, not a cause, so it should be more useful to talk about the causes.

I don't mean to suggest it could be fixed easily. I'm fairly sure it can't be fixed without a serious economic downturn, perhaps a crash or war or some other major calamity, at which point some of these things would fix themselves. Women are fear-driven and risk-averse, so take away easy debt and endless coddling by the state and they'll remember pretty quickly how to rope in a man and tie him down with kids while their looks are still at their peak. Can that be done while people still feel like the West is more-or-less wealthy and progressing? I'm not optimistic about that, but I don't expect that to situation to continue either.

OpenID Steve October 10, 2015 10:00 PM  

I'm fairly sure it can't be fixed without a serious economic downturn, perhaps a crash or war

Could do like Iceland and throw the looters in jail, instead of giving them bonuses paid by the taxpayers.

Blogger Crude October 10, 2015 10:08 PM  

Something seems wrong with your suggestions, Cail, but I should have some better ideas of my own before disputing them - so I'll back off for now. We'll see what happens.

Blogger haus frau October 10, 2015 11:14 PM  

"Yes, you can turn that kind of thing around in a heartbeat in theory. But how do you get it to turn around?"

Reform the pension and welfare system so people have the money to raise kids and need the kids as social security in old age. I've read the Scandinavian birth rate really began declining when the state took over the pension system which makes sense. Traditionally, extended family was always the game plan. Set aside wealth but also have several kids and stay on good terms with them.

Blogger Zaklog the Great October 12, 2015 9:53 AM  

@41 Yeah, he's talking about having large families. He's not talking about how this applies to the problems of immigration Europe now faces. I don't see how I was wrong.

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