ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Thursday, October 29, 2015

The Republican Final Four Three

According to the Weekly Standard, anyhow:
Tonight’s debate showed that the GOP field is smaller than it looks. Technically, there are still fourteen people running, but the winnowing is far along. We probably have a final six and possibly a final four.

The three winners of the night were pretty obvious: Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, and Donald Trump.

Rubio ended Jeb Bush’s campaign with the kind of body shot that buckles your knees. That’s on Bush, who never should have come after Rubio in that spot for a host of strategic and tactical reasons. But what should scare Hillary Clinton is how effortless Rubio is even with throwaway lines, like “I’m against anything that’s bad for my mother.” Most people have no idea how fearsome raw political talent can be. Clinton does know because she’s seen it up close. She sleeps next to it for a contractually-obligated 18 nights per year.

Cruz was tough and canny—no surprise there. He went the full-Gingrich in his assault on CNBC’s ridiculous moderators. He did a better job explaining Social Security reform than Chris Christie, even (which is no mean feat). And managed to look downright personable compared with John Harwood, whose incompetence was matched only by his unpleasantness. If you’re a conservative voter looking for someone who is going to fight for your values, Cruz must have looked awfully attractive.

Then there was Trump. Over the last few weeks, Trump has gotten better on the stump. Well, don’t look now, but he’s getting better at debates, too. Trump was reasonably disciplined. He kept his agro to a medium-high level. And his situational awareness is getting keener, too. Note how he backed John Kasich into such a bad corner on Lehmann Brothers that he protested, “I was a banker, and I was proud of it!” When that’s your answer, you’ve lost the exchange. Even at a Republican debate.

And Trump had a hammer close: “Our country doesn’t win anymore. We used to win. We don’t anymore.” I remain convinced that this line (along with his hardliner on immigration) is the core of Trump’s appeal. But he didn’t just restate this theme in his closing argument. He used it to: (1) beat up CNBC; and (2) argue that his man-handling of these media twits is an example of what he’ll do as president. It was brilliant political theater.

Those were your winners.
Carson is irrelevant. He's just the usual Republican Maybe-This-Will-Get-Me-Out-Of-Racism-Free card, the role previously played by Alan Keyes and Hermann Cain. He's also anti-gun, so he's a non-starter.

Cruz and Rubio are competing for the same Establishment dollar as well as the Unicorn vote, also known as the Hispanic Natural Republican. Cruz is tougher than Rubio and he also looks less like an overweight frat brother, so I think he knocks Rubio aside without too much trouble.

The real question is Establishment vs Grass Roots rebellion. And there, the verdict is far from in. And not that anyone here didn't doubt that Jeb Bush was already cooked, but his epic fail raises some genuine questions about the idea that he is the smarter brother.
It’s hard to see how Jeb Bush recovers from his self-inflected wound at Wednesday’s CNBC Republican debate in Boulder when he went after Marco Rubio just after the young senator had hit one out of the park.  Rubio was defending himself from an editorial in the Sun Sentinel calling on Marco to stop “ripping off” the public and quit the Senate because of his poor attendance record.  Rubio responded that John Kerry and Barack Obama had been even more truant from the Senate while running for president and the paper had not only ignored that, but given these men their endorsement.  It was an example of  liberal media bias at its most obvious.  The crowd erupted in its first ovation of the night.  Advantage Rubio.

Clueless, Bush jumped in as if nothing had happened, taking the paper’s side and schoolmarmishly doubling down on Marco.  He got his head handed to him by Rubio (politely) and the audience.
Bush should just quit now. He's an embarrassment.

Labels:

145 Comments:

Blogger Sean October 29, 2015 3:05 PM  

Is Cruz the establishment candidate if it comes down to 2? Republican leadership hates him and I expect they would prefer Hillary over Cruz.

Blogger Noah B #120 October 29, 2015 3:07 PM  

Cruz can still be considered establishment, but they have the weakest rein on him of anyone other than Trump and possibly Carson.

Blogger Hammerli280 October 29, 2015 3:08 PM  

I disagree about Cruz and Rubio competing for the same Establishment resources. Not at this time. Cruz is reminiscent of Newt Gingrich - he's a hard-line conservative ideologue. Rubio is Jeb Bush without the Bush Family Millstone around his neck.

Now, if it comes to a Cruz vs Trump final, I think the Establishment will back Cruz simply because he's got more experience. On the other hand, a Cruz vs Trump final puts both men on the ticket.

I think we'll see the field seriously contract after the 10 November debate. By Thanksgiving, we should be down to 5-7 candidates, and the preference cascades will start to become clearer. One thing we can be sure of...whoever the nominee is, he was not the first choice of at least 75% of the Republicans. The key to winning will be presenting a comfortable third or fourth choice.

Blogger Dexter October 29, 2015 3:11 PM  

Bush should just quit now. He's an embarrassment.

Fredo, you know you are too weak and stupid to be the head of the family, why don't you go to Vegas and learn the casino business or something?

Blogger Noah B #120 October 29, 2015 3:15 PM  

I wonder if Jeb likes to fish.

Blogger Retrenched October 29, 2015 3:22 PM  

So I guess all those polls showing the rise of Carly Fiorina were bogus. Yeah I'm as shocked as you...

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. Burnin' Up! October 29, 2015 3:23 PM  

Someone please distract Carly, Rubio, Christie, Cruz and Bush with some money or something. Do they like food or vacays or something?

Please! no more women in office or politics!

I want Rand Paul (very positive for, just unhappy with his advisers and it appears america doesn't deserve Ron or Rand Paul both whom understand economics), Trump (reluctantly) and ______ (reluctantly) to debate or throw their own debates. Why and how in 2015 are dems, repubs, Bernie, etc., unable to throw their own debates? Campaign laws restrict/prohibit such?

It is NEVER acceptable to brag about being in banking, its a freaking secret if not shame if not act of marring ones character by its very mention. Dear Lord, who are these people and why are they running again?

A freakshow just in time for Halloween for post americant zombies to worship more neoconnin', more distractions, etc.,

Blogger Gaiseric October 29, 2015 3:28 PM  

I wonder if Jeb wasn't pushed into running. He's such a beta-male loser, that I don't have any problem seeing him running because he's basically been hen-pecked into doing so by his family, his wife, his family's donors, etc.

It's almost as if he was looking for a way out of running.

Anonymous Spirit of 76 October 29, 2015 3:29 PM  

Rand Paul is an open borders freak.

Blogger Rabbi B October 29, 2015 3:29 PM  

"I wonder if Jeb likes to fish."

With his big brother. Alone. In a small boat.

Blogger Gaiseric October 29, 2015 3:31 PM  

On the other hand, I do love how the media keeps finding some odd poll result to trumpet about how Carson is beating Trump somewhere. Really? Carson's been on a roll for a while, establishing some credibility as a nice guy candidate who still won't dance to the media's tune, but I have a lot of trouble seeing how Republican voters are taking him that seriously.

Blogger KCFleming October 29, 2015 3:32 PM  

I loved watching Cruz smacking CNBC around.

That was really fun.

Anonymous Anonymous October 29, 2015 3:37 PM  

as an outsider looking in American political procedure baffles me. why the hell is there still so many people involved in this? is this just the original reality tv for you guys?

the other question is why do you spend so much time trying to show how horrible each candidate is basically funneling ammo to the enemy for the actual election run?

and finally thanks vd for reopening anon comments.

-AmicusC

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 3:38 PM  

Out of many, my favorite moment was when .

Trump totally destroyed Kasich

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 3:40 PM  

Oh, part of what makes it so funny is how Kasich gets this wierd floppy arm thing going on :P

Blogger Jack Ward October 29, 2015 3:40 PM  

I think I could support a Trump/Cruz ticket. I would definitely want Trump as President but, with a close working relationship and advice source in Cruz. This, I think, would be a terrific ticket. [for once]

Anonymous fish October 29, 2015 3:40 PM  

Bush should just quit now. He's an embarrassment.

No he should stay in.....and spend, and spend, and spend.....until he has none of that donor money left....and loses anyway!

Blogger Patrikbc October 29, 2015 3:42 PM  

If Cruz gets the nomination I will vote for the first time in my life.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 3:42 PM  

The Bush quest to become El Presidente is not looking good now.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 3:43 PM  

Trump : Jeb ~ Hot girl : her fatty friend. Trump should keep towing him around after the election just for contrast.

Not like he'd object to the leash. Jeb for Vice Subbident.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 3:45 PM  

I thought Trump and Cruz were the best ones last night. The serious losers, besides the network, were Kasich and Hayb! Boosch.

Blogger Jourdan October 29, 2015 3:47 PM  

Who ever you guys vote for, USG wins.

Don't waste your time, change of the sort the Ilk are looking for won't come from any candidate or voting.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 3:47 PM  

A funny comment last night was Jayb getting demoted to the kids table. Where Jindal would continue his @ss whooping.

Blogger Chris Mallory October 29, 2015 3:48 PM  

@18 "If Cruz gets the nomination I will vote for the first time in my life."

What draws you to him? His "Israel Uber Alles" stance? His chicken hawk style war mongering? His literally being in bed with Goldman Sachs? His immigrant heritage?

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 3:49 PM  

Why must you tarnish the new shiney?

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 3:51 PM  

I haven't seen the whole thing. The bombs Cruz dropped on cnbc were awesome.

Blogger Cinco October 29, 2015 3:53 PM  

For those with a short memory, it would behoove of us to remember that at one point during the last election (I think maybe even after Iowa) McCain was polling around 3% and Ron Paul had more money than him. Much too early to count people out...

Anonymous BoysMom October 29, 2015 3:53 PM  

@22 Oh, I don't know, have you seen what gun sales have done in the last two terms? When it comes to what the Ilk really want, increased private gun ownership isn't a bad start.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 29, 2015 3:53 PM  

Talked to next door neighbor yesterday. Serious union man. Agrees with me that illegal immigrants are being brought into country to keep wages suppressed and provide voters for the Democrat party. Does not seem adverse to a Trump presidency, and this guy is a serious Democrat.

Blogger Hammerli280 October 29, 2015 3:54 PM  

@13 Amicus C:

The USA has election laws that make it effectively impossible to run a multi-party system. In Europe, most of these candidates would be the nominee of different parties, there would be an election, and then the top two would face each other in a runoff. In the United States, the candidate with the largest minority would be declared the winner. As a consequence, we have a two-party system.

Which means having a primary election to select the nominee of each party. The Republicans are in an unusual situation this year, with about twice the normal number of candidates. Normally, there are 6-8, with only one or two who have a serious shot.

Blogger Guitar Man October 29, 2015 3:55 PM  

Rand Paul is an open borders freak.

Source?

Blogger Desiderius October 29, 2015 3:57 PM  

"Republican leadership hates him and I expect they would prefer Hillary over Cruz."

We'll see. Hillary threatens to gore more than a few of their oxen. A viable Cruz changes the equation.

A lot of independent/non-political thought leaders/influencers can rationalize continuing to support incompetent/corrupt Ds and/or staying on the sidelines due to R fecklessness/intellectual mediocrity. Doesn't work with Cruz.

Cruz has the potential to be the Dan Campbell of the GOP.

Blogger Lana J October 29, 2015 3:59 PM  

The Establishment has been pushing for Rubio to be the alternate Bush ever since his poll numbers started tanking. They really dislike Cruz, so they will probably throw all their combined support to Rubio in order to attempt to take out Cruz. I think they believe this will effectively take out Trump as Rubio will look much better to voters. Whether that's the case or not.... we shall see.

Who ever you guys vote for, USG wins.

Don't waste your time, change of the sort the Ilk are looking for won't come from any candidate or voting.


Agreed.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 4:02 PM  

"Cruz and Rubio are competing for the same Establishment dollar as well as the Unicorn vote, also known as the Hispanic Natural Republican. Cruz is tougher than Rubio and he also looks less like an overweight frat brother, so I think he knocks Rubio aside without too much trouble."

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think the Neocons would rank it like this:

1. Rubio.

2. Hilary

3. Trump

4. Cruz.

I think Cruz is the biggest problem for them because he would rest control of the party from them completely and leave them out in the cold. I don't think they would see it that way with Trump. He's just another outsider they can co-opt and bring into the fold.


Anonymous Stirner October 29, 2015 4:03 PM  

@13 I have seen good speculation that the reason for the large pool of candidates is that it was a strategy to get Jeb the nomination. Many of the candidates are no-hopers, but they may peel away delegates during the early stages of the primaries. Pataki? NY. Rubio? Florida. Kasich? Ohio. Christie? PA/NJ. They would all drop eventually, but Jeb would ride in the middle of the pack and pick up their supporters (and the delegate votes of those candidates, and have the delegate count in the bag when anointed as the R candidate at the end of the primaries. Rubio would get VP, pivoting the Republicans to maybe picking up the productive Hispanic vote. The candidates who took a dive would get paypack during the Jeb administration.

Trump upended that entire strategy, and exposure of Jeb's cuck gamma qualities seems to make it impossible for him to attract supporters from the other establishment candidates.

After last night, I have to think that at this point the donor base now has to look towards Rubio as their last hope to stop the rise of God Emperor Trump.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus October 29, 2015 4:03 PM  

To hear the FReepers tell it, Ted Cruz is the Only True Republican and The Only Hope For Saving The Republic.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 4:09 PM  

"To hear the FReepers tell it, Ted Cruz is the Only True Republican and The Only Hope For Saving The Republic."

Ted is a seriously flawed candidate... but in this shit sandwich of a field I don't see a lot of options that are better.

I don't think anyone here thinks Cruz would save anything... or fix anything.

The only people niave enough to think an election can change things are a small subset of Trump supporters.

Blogger Jourdan October 29, 2015 4:10 PM  

If people only knew what an open joke the Republicans are in Washington. No one here takes them seriously at all. People all nod knowingly when they say "awful" things as understandable because they have to pander to the base. Boehner is being feted from K Street to Capitol Hill for "doing the right thing" to "unify" people by complete surrender on budget issues.

It's openly acknowledged here by EVERYONE that they aren't serious. No one expects them to be. The only real opposition here is Louie Gohmert of Texas and precisely 7 others. (Guess what? 8 Rs voted against Ryan for speaker today).

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 4:17 PM  

I don't think anyone here thinks Cruz would save anything... or fix anything.

The party regulars seem to think he would save their bankster friends from whatever threat they think Trump represents.

Anonymous Anonymous October 29, 2015 4:18 PM  

@30 Hammerli280

thanks for that. I had no idea it was the law itself that turned them into a two party situation. I originally thought it had simply evolved that way.

@35 Stirner that's an interesting theory. and very much could be true.

who controls the size of the field of candidates?

-AmicusC

Anonymous Oddrobb October 29, 2015 4:20 PM  

Trump wasn't the star, but by mellowing out he looked more presidential, which is good for him in the long run. Cruz and Rubio are clearly the most prepared for the general election where they will routinely confronted by a biased media. You know you're doing something right when its the biased moderators who are on the defensive and scrambling to change the subject. Christie did surprisingly well too. Still don't like him though.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 4:24 PM  

Trump is not the Man. He is John the Baptist, preparing the way for the Man. In 5th grade soundbites.

Blogger Salt October 29, 2015 4:24 PM  

These debates need to be treated as they deserve.

1st Dem debate.

1st Rep debate.

Anonymous Spirit of 76 October 29, 2015 4:27 PM  

http://openborders.info/blog/rand-paul-immigration/
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Rand_Paul_Immigration.htm
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/06/12/rand-paul-ill-not-allow-you-to-smear-me-by-claiming-that-im-for-amnesty/

He wants to amnesty the "11 million" and has no problem with people coming here for jobs.


Anonymous Rick Johnsmeyer October 29, 2015 4:28 PM  

The same Ted Cruz who walked out on a conference of Mideastern Christians after they didn't cheer loudly enough for Israel (which he brought up apropos of nothing)?

I'm not sure whose side Ted is on, but it's not that of Christendom.

Blogger dh October 29, 2015 4:32 PM  

Bush is so unskilled. Attacking Rubio was dumb. He should have embraced Rubio as a member of the GOP establishment. Talk about his time as Speaker of the Florida House, Superdelegate, how close he is with the RNC and the consultant class. All the times they've ever worked together on stuff.

That's the poison - being the candidate of the establishment (which Rubio is) is the death of a candidate, not missing votes. Idiots.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 4:32 PM  

"The party regulars seem to think he would save their bankster friends from whatever threat they think Trump represents."

I don't know about that. The GOP establish appears to hate Cruz. I am befuddled as to why because from here he looks like a standard bomb-everyone neo-con.

Maybe he's to conservative on domestic stuff for them?

Anonymous Oddrobb October 29, 2015 4:34 PM  

The only people niave enough to think an election can change things are a small subset of Trump supporters.

With the possibility of two, potentially three supreme court justices retiring between now and the next election cycle, this election could very well change a great deal of things. Having someone who recognizes and defends individual liberty is the exact kind of person you want appointing court justices, especially with the current docket.

Blogger YIH October 29, 2015 4:40 PM  

Cruz is tougher than Rubio and he also looks less like an overweight frat brother, so I think he knocks Rubio aside without too much trouble.
It says a lot about the Bush Family that Rubio may well be the sliver bullet that finally puts that werewolf down.
As noted, Rubio's going nowhere himself, he's less popular in FL then even the Bush Family.
He's given up on the Senate (he's not running for re-election) and he got there mainly by sheer luck in the first place.
My guess is by SC he'll be broke, and still way down in the polls. Adios.

Blogger Lana J October 29, 2015 4:45 PM  

Bush needs to show his love for the Hispanic people by stepping aside and giving Rubio his campaign donors and consultants.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 4:47 PM  

Maybe he's to conservative on domestic stuff for them?

Yup. Plus he's too evangelical.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 29, 2015 4:49 PM  

To Murray et al's complaints that Trump is sleazy: look around. Then grasp the concept of democracy.

Anonymous Cary October 29, 2015 4:50 PM  

I think there’s more to the Carson vote than, I am not a racist. He is the choice of the anti-establishment evangelicals who have trouble supporting Trump. I’m an evangelical, but I’m with with Trump because I agree with VD that immigration is the only issue at this point. Still even I have reservations. For example, Trump seeming to not even understand the point of the H1B question and/or backing down from it last night was not encouraging. Still a chance of even limited enforcement is better than no chance at all from every other candidate. Also, would Trump really appoint conservative judges? One more liberal on the Supreme Court and you can say goodbye to gun rights and a lot of other freedoms.

But if you are an evangelical who hasn’t come to terms with the reality of immigration, Trump’s persona, character, and questionable conservatism in several other areas is off-putting. Still you don’t want ¡Jeb! or another establishment type, and Carson’s outspoken faith is appealing. This was enough, along with the I’m not a racist vote, to push him to the low teens. But then in the last few weeks he surged to a solid lead in Iowa and a stronger second place nationally. This came after some of his own real talk regarding Islam and then doubling down on it and not apologizing when challenged on it by the media.

The evangelical vote is not enough to win, but it allows people to hang around. See Santorum and Huckabee the last two campaigns. Thus far Carson has been dominating that group in this election.

Blogger S1AL October 29, 2015 4:50 PM  

He's also an anti-immigration hardliner who's *also* Hispanic. That's two things the establishment can't handle.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 4:53 PM  

I think another reason the establishment dislikes Cruz is that his entire Senate career has been a series of political stunts.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 4:54 PM  

I don't know about that. The GOP establish appears to hate Cruz. I am befuddled as to why because from here he looks like a standard bomb-everyone neo-con.

Same here; he looks just like one of them to me, because the banking and the warring go together. "Too conservative on domestic stuff"? That always ends at the inauguration, and the party insiders know that as well as anyone. So I really can't see why the neo-cons dislike Cruz, unless it's that they think he can't win the nomination and save them from Trump.

Maybe they're just butthurt that their chosen Jeb is dying, so they're taking it out on whoever tries to replace him.

Blogger ray October 29, 2015 4:55 PM  

'But what should scare Hillary Clinton is how effortless Rubio is even with throwaway lines, like “I’m against anything that’s bad for my mother.”'


This isn't a Femicrat. . . this is a REPUBLICAN, supposedly a grown man, and whatever Mommy tells him to do, why that's what Ums-has-graduated-to-pull-ups does? Him's a big boy now!

And I suppose this Rubio is a governor or congressthing too, is that right? Please please do not tell me he is a 'Christian'.

Krrrr-pluuuussshhh! goes moomyland down the terminal terlet.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 4:56 PM  

I'm not sure whose side Ted is on, but it's not that of Christendom.

Israel

OpenID elijahrhodes October 29, 2015 5:04 PM  

William Lind posits a Trump/Sanders ticket:

https://www.traditionalright.com/the-election/

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 5:05 PM  

He's also an anti-immigration hardliner

Bzzzt. There are no anti-immigration hardliners. (No, not even Trump.) Santorum was the only one with better than a C+ from Numbers USA when the election started, and he had a 10th-hour conversion (if Trump's was 11th-hour) since the last election when he had a D+.

Cruz has edged up to a B- recently (thanks to the Trumpenpressure), but he still won't say we need to admit fewer total immigrants, and he introduced a 2013 amendment to raise the number of H-1Bs by 500%. Like Rubio, he appears to think the more immigrants the better, as long as they're the right kind. If that's a hardliner, what are those of us calling for a moratorium and repatriation?

Blogger Ostar October 29, 2015 5:08 PM  

I'm old enough to have voted for Reagan, and the media and the establishment Republicans are saying many of the same things now about Trump. And yet they are just as surprised that Trump is still going strong despite their disapproval as they were about Reagan then.

Still clueless after all these years.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 5:10 PM  

If that's a hardliner, what are those of us calling for a moratorium and repatriation?

Nazis. Duh.

Blogger Hammerli280 October 29, 2015 5:12 PM  

@48 Oddrob is right. This is about at least one SCOTUS seat. Quite probably two or three. I'll take ANY of the Republicans picking those over Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.

With a field this big and this evenly matched, at least 75% of the voters are NOT going to get their first choice. Probably not their second choice, either. This is a cycle where you need to slot the candidates in an order...and remember that all of them are better than the Democrat alternative.

Anonymous Thomas October 29, 2015 5:13 PM  

Vox, Jeb's ill-fated thrust at Rubio and Rubio's devastating takedown had me thinking nothing so much as Gamma male vs. at least a Beta, in your typology. Jeb's recent public petulance, inability to see how unpopular he and his positions are and the dire state of his campaign, and general personality have all suggested this. His line of attack last night, a well-telegraphed and ultimately bumbled effort to one-up Rubio on a petty issue that literally no one who matters cares about (and that he ultimately cribbed from the press) all looked like Gamma snark and trying to punch above weight. Watch the video and the body language, especially where he tries in vain to mount a comeback after Rubio calls him out on the "someone has convinced you this will help you line." Rubio just turns away from him like he's not even there and addresses the audience. It's brutal if you know what you're actually seeing, and it's the core of why Jeb! never had a prayer.

Anonymous 0007 October 29, 2015 5:16 PM  

Bush...but, but, but, it's my turn and I was promised...

Blogger YIH October 29, 2015 5:19 PM  

@48 Oddrob:
With the possibility of two, potentially three supreme court justices retiring between now and the next election cycle, this election could very well change a great deal of things.
th-thunk!
With the possibility of two, potentially three supreme court justices retiring between now and the next election cycle, this election could very well change a great deal of things.
th-thunk!
With the possibility of two, potentially three supreme court justices retiring between now and the next election cycle, this election could very well change a great deal of things.
Yeah, right.

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 5:20 PM  

This is about at least one SCOTUS seat. Quite probably two or three. I'll take ANY of the Republicans picking those over Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.

John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy have shown that this strategy no longer works.

Blogger Noah B #120 October 29, 2015 5:22 PM  

Don't forget David Souter.

Anonymous keener October 29, 2015 5:24 PM  

---Ron Winkleheimer:

Same thing happened to me. Was visiting family and I have this cousin with whom I have fought politics since Clinton, a union man all the way (Burlington Northern RR) and at a family gathering he turned to me and said, 'So which one do you like?' At this the rest of the family started ducking for cover because we have really gotten into it in the past, and I said I love Trump! He said Me too!

Family sighs with relief, back to the beer and the BBQ.

Blogger kurt9 October 29, 2015 5:24 PM  

We've already had two Bush's, we don't need a third Bush as a political dynasty.

Jeb Bush should forget about the maneuvering. He should just get out.

Anonymous LOL October 29, 2015 5:28 PM  

This is about SCOTUS? You must be a complete idiot. Roberts repeatedly screwed us... Good thing we elected Dubya to control that important choice eh?

Blogger TheLiberatorOfBados October 29, 2015 5:29 PM  

@#56

There's two ways to look at Cruz:

1. He's an establishment shill who is trying to play the role of the insurgent anti-establishment candidate. Regardless, he says the right things but comes off as extremely phony.

2 (and the more likely answer). Ted Cruz is out for Ted Cruz. If it benefits Ted Cruz to side with the establishment in order to further his own well-being, then he'll do that. If it benefits Ted Cruz to side with the anti-establishment, then he'll do that. Basically, Cruz sees how the winds are changing in this country and is trying to not get swallowed up by the tsunami that is approaching. He's trying to toe the line so that he can zig or zag to either side when it's to his advantage (and continued survival) to do.

Either way, most people can tell the guy is a fraud, hence why his numbers are still WAAAY down despite saying all the right things and the dearth of quality candidates on the stage.

Anonymous BGS October 29, 2015 5:30 PM  

Couldn't they at least have gotten a cuck to be moderator instead of a leftist that oozed distain.

I wonder if Jeb wasn't pushed into running. He's such a beta-male loser,

If not for Trump it would be just HilLIARy and Jeb now. A bunch of the zeros are being pushed just to help Jeb in their home states.

This is about at least one SCOTUS seat. Quite probably two or three. I'll take ANY of the Republicans picking those

We could lose the right to bear arms even if a cuckservative choses someone. Roberts got reminded of his Epstein Island pictures before the Obamacare vote.

Anonymous bgs October 29, 2015 5:33 PM  

We've already had two Bush's, we don't need a third Bush as a political dynasty

I have heard people say 2 out of 3 aint bad, so maybe he would be the good Bush.

Blogger Chris Mallory October 29, 2015 5:35 PM  

@63 "remember that all of them are better than the Democrat alternative."


I don't know about that. If the Repugs hold control of Congress, they will just turn face down, ass up to a president with a R beside his name. We had 6 years of that under Bush the Lesser. I don't care to repeat it.
If Bush the Lesser had wanted to ban all guns, the R's in Congress would have fallen all over themselves to give it to him. After all, the Constitution is not a suicide pact.

Maybe with a D in the White House they will grow a spine and oppose some of what he wants. Yeah I know, that makes me laugh too.

Anonymous Andrew E. October 29, 2015 5:37 PM  


An astute young person asks Trump again about H1Bs at his rally today in Reno, NV. Trump gives the correct answer. Americans first.

Go to 1:16:30:

http://www.shallownation.com/2015/10/25/video-donald-trump-speech-at-reno-nevada-rally-thurs-oct-29-2015/


Cruz and everyone else are miles away from Trump on immigration.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 5:38 PM  

It's one thing to fail to learn from history that happened centuries ago and is only available in dry textbooks. But shitty Republican SCOTUS choices have happened in our lifetimes -- in my dog's lifetime. Repeatedly, more often than good ones. We're still figuring out the consequences of their latest betrayals on gay marriage and health care.

SCOTUS is the best reason for supporting the most left-wing candidate, because it's now the most tyrannical branch of government -- nine elitists unilaterally making the laws for 300M+ people -- and thus the branch most likely to cause a revolt of the plebs. We don't need more RINOs on the court where they can cave in slowly to the left and only really offend conservatives. We need outright SJWs of the sort Obama has chosen and Hillary would choose, to push things so far so fast that even average Americans start to get the picture.

Blogger JartStar October 29, 2015 5:42 PM  

The neo-cons like Rubio. He's the favorite to get the nomination.

Anonymous Oddrobb October 29, 2015 5:43 PM  

This is about SCOTUS? You must be a complete idiot. Roberts repeatedly screwed us... Good thing we elected Dubya to control that important choice eh?

This only highlights the significance of the Supreme Court's power balance. Why should important cases be decided by a single swing vote? Take control of the Senate, win the White House and replace the aging activists in the bench as they retire.

Blogger Gaiseric October 29, 2015 5:45 PM  

The same Ted Cruz who walked out on a conference of Mideastern Christians after they didn't cheer loudly enough for Israel (which he brought up apropos of nothing)?

I'm not sure whose side Ted is on, but it's not that of Christendom.


Cruz is an odd hybrid of a neocon, a libertarian, and a stuntman. I think maybe part of the problem is that nobody thinks that they can control him, because nobody really knows what he's going to do next.

Blogger The Other Robot October 29, 2015 5:47 PM  

I guess Trump only has two days to drop out to meet the October deadline.

Anonymous Oddrobb October 29, 2015 5:56 PM  

John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy have shown that this strategy no longer works.

You're only demonstrating that it matters who gets appointed. It's simply untrue that an election can't change things. Indeed, the election of Regan and the subsequent appointment of Kennedy continues to matter to this very day. With three potential seats on the SCOTUS coming up, this election will matter for decades.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 6:03 PM  

You're only demonstrating that it matters who gets appointed.

It doesn't follow from that that it matters who gets elected. You can't ensure good appointments by electing Republicans, as we've proven many times now.

And at this point, the SCOTUS is legislating so much from the bench that none of us should be happy with that, even if we had a way to get our tyrants installed for a while, which we don't.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 6:10 PM  

With three potential seats on the SCOTUS coming up, this election will matter for decades.

Yes. If we elect a Cruz or Rubio, he'll probably appoint one somewhat conservative justice (who's willing to genuflect before Roe to get Senate approval), and a couple of "moderates" who will grow in the job and end up on the other side on anything really important. And of course he'll have to make his appointments properly diverse, so they'll all be women and/or non-Asian minorities whose conservatism (such as it is) will always be secondary to their victim group bonds.

So that's how it matters: if those seats are filled by a Democrat, we'll get more top-down leftism from known leftists. If they're filled by a Republican, we'll get more top-down leftism from people thought to be at least nominally conservative.

Blogger YIH October 29, 2015 6:11 PM  

@79 Oddrob:
This only highlights the significance of the Supreme Court's power balance. Why should important cases be decided by a single swing vote? Take control of the Senate, win the White House and replace the aging activists in the bench as they retire.
@66

Blogger Sam Lively October 29, 2015 6:23 PM  

@77

Why are you so optimistic about a plebeian revolution being successful, much less producing anything better?

I think this "burn it down faster" notion is the alt-right variant on Rod Dreher's "get me to a nunnery" routine: both seem to be fed by either defeatism or the desire not to fight until the battle is pitched in stark terms of good and evil.



Anonymous Oddrobb October 29, 2015 6:30 PM  

It doesn't follow from that that it matters who gets elected. You can't ensure good appointments by electing Republicans, as we've proven many times now.

There's no guarantee that a good justice will be appointed, but there is a guarantee that whoever happens to be appointed by the next POTUS will have lasting implications.

And at this point, the SCOTUS is legislating so much from the bench that none of us should be happy with that, even if we had a way to get our tyrants installed for a while, which we don't.

The GOP already has the majority in the Senate. SCOTUS appointments are not filibuster-proof, but that could easily change with the next election.

In any case, why not play by the rules they put in place? Judicial activism dismantled our liberty, and now we need restore it. This is a power struggle. It's like saying we shouldn't purge SJW's from any points of entryism because that's what they've been doing to everyone else.

Blogger Sam Lively October 29, 2015 6:39 PM  

@84

You are leaving out Alito, Thomas and Scalia, who have not been been top-down leftists. And Roberts is squishy, but seems like he can be counted on for the moral issues.

There's plenty of doom and gloom, but it's not all doom and gloom.

I think Cruz would actually make a very solid SC appointee in the Scalia/Thomas tradition. His hawkish instincts on foreign policy won't come into play and his strength on the social issues and limited government would be key.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 6:40 PM  

@53 Cary

You might be right about that. I have a couple friends who only seem to want to hear about Carson, because he's some flavor of Christian.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 6:42 PM  

@55 Josh
I think another reason the establishment dislikes Cruz is that his entire Senate career has been a series of political stunts.
---

A long time ago I read an article about him said he was a Tea Party candidate, and he might have primaried an GOPe candidate once.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer October 29, 2015 6:42 PM  

@keener

My neighbor works for a RR too. I don't think the Democrat party realizes how badly it has alienated its traditional base.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 6:44 PM  

@56 Cail Corishev

Maybe they're just butthurt that their chosen Jeb is dying, so they're taking it out on whoever tries to replace him.
---

They ordered a stiff taquito and got a soggy tamale in Bush.

Blogger Jourdan October 29, 2015 6:50 PM  

Oddrob - I cannot believe you are speaking of S Ct justice picks as if they are of some importance. Have you been asleep for the past 30 years? Good God, man, show some wit and insight. Or save it for a Cuckservative site.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 6:58 PM  

Why are you so optimistic about a plebeian revolution being successful, much less producing anything better?

Did I say I was optimistic?

Blogger Cail Corishev October 29, 2015 6:59 PM  

In any case, why not play by the rules they put in place?

Okay, you can't be serious. Never mind.

Blogger Unknown October 29, 2015 7:03 PM  

The assumption in this sort of election opinionating is that the typical voter wants America to survive. Experience suggests this is not a supportable assumption. Sure, the sheeple want something to survive, but how much of that is 'America' and how much is merely their own personal wish list? I'll venture that in the brave new world of egalitarian Amerika, it's their personal wants that each individual feels voting can resolve and nothing else. The average person doesn't give a toss about the constitution. Best not to assume that when the electorate votes it wants an American President. It wants a showdown between King Trump and Kommissar Clinton. Man and woman. Right and left. America is as distant now as it was at any other time.

Blogger James Dixon October 29, 2015 7:04 PM  

> ...and remember that all of them are better than the Democrat alternative.

Uhm, no. At least 5 (Bush, Kasich, Christy, Rubio, and Graham), probably more, are even worse than the democrats.

Blogger Brad Andrews October 29, 2015 7:04 PM  

I was more open to the SC nominee mattering in 1980 and 1984. Not at all now.

We are going to crash. The results will not be pretty. No use trying to pretend to extend it.

We will never take back power from judges in the current system. Too much has to change to do that.

The future is not rosy.

Blogger Steve Moss October 29, 2015 7:48 PM  

I enjoyed watching the debates.

Trump is the clear winner, though Cruz and Rubio had their moments.

Like some other posters, I've been surprised by the number of working Democrats I know who say they'd back Trump.

Blogger Cyclone Bob October 29, 2015 7:51 PM  

Not saying you don't have a point, but all you guys coming to an Election thread to say "it doesn't matter who wins" are like the guys who drop in the NFL thread to say "negro worshippers".

Blogger rcocean October 29, 2015 8:01 PM  

The Establishment hates Cruz and Trump because of trade and immigration. Rubio is there boy - if Jeb fails. The problem is the religious right. They always either vote establishment, after their wacko candidates lose in NH, or they keep voting for someone like Huckabee (who can't win). So I'm betting on Rubio

Blogger rcocean October 29, 2015 8:03 PM  

The Establishment hates Cruz and Trump because of trade and immigration. Rubio is there boy - if Jeb fails. The problem is the religious right. They always either vote establishment, after their wacko candidates lose in NH, or they keep voting for someone like Huckabee (who can't win). So I'm betting on Rubio

Blogger Desiderius October 29, 2015 8:08 PM  

"If we elect a Cruz or Rubio, he'll probably appoint one somewhat conservative justice (who's willing to genuflect before Roe to get Senate approval), and a couple of "moderates" who will grow in the job and end up on the other side on anything really important."

That's one of the many differences between Cruz and Rubio. Cruz is akin to Obama when it comes to appointments. There's no way either one is appointing any squishes. The only question with Cruz, as with Obama, is whether he can get enough independents/turn out the base enough to get elected.

Obama did this by hammering wedge issues that divided and demoralized the Rs to keep their turnout down. There are plenty of those for Ds (including immigration). If Cruz can do that, he has a path.

Blogger Desiderius October 29, 2015 8:11 PM  

"The problem is the religious right."

Cruz speaks evangeleze (that's the primary reason for the pro-Israel talk), and, crucially, believes it. If Carson drops out, and he's still in, he gets the bulk of their votes, and can turn them out. Romney the ur-churchian couldn't.

Blogger Desiderius October 29, 2015 8:21 PM  

"SCOTUS is the best reason for supporting the most left-wing candidate, because it's now the most tyrannical branch of government -- nine elitists unilaterally making the laws for 300M+ people -- and thus the branch most likely to cause a revolt of the plebs. We don't need more RINOs on the court where they can cave in slowly to the left and only really offend conservatives. We need outright SJWs of the sort Obama has chosen and Hillary would choose, to push things so far so fast that even average Americans start to get the picture."

I'll buy that if the only choice is Left vs cuck. But Cruz is demonstrably one of Vox's super-intelligences. There are fewer of those every day who are still cuck.

Blogger Daniel October 29, 2015 8:39 PM  

CNBC is a channel?

Blogger Josh October 29, 2015 8:48 PM  

The Establishment hates Cruz and Trump because of trade and immigration.

Cruz co-wrote a WSJ op-ed with Paul Ryan supporting giving Obama fast track authority for the TPP and other trade deals.

Blogger Nate October 29, 2015 8:52 PM  

"I guess Trump only has two days to drop out to meet the October deadline."

correct.

I'm astonished he's still in it.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 8:55 PM  

@83 Cail Corishev
You're only demonstrating that it matters who gets appointed.

It doesn't follow from that that it matters who gets elected. You can't ensure good appointments by electing Republicans, as we've proven many times now.
----

You guarantee a bad one if it's a Democrat picking them.
It's a crap shoot otherwise.

Anonymous John Carter October 29, 2015 9:05 PM  

"who's willing to genuflect before Roe to get Senate approval"

Good- fighting "Roe" in the courts is a losers game. Hammer it down in state after state- the way we have for years now. The campaign to strike down Roe in SCOTUS will just be judges getting scurred of college students. Best case- we reinvigorate the somnolent pro-abortion crowd. Worst case, and most likely- Roe double-down.

You don't win wars in dramatic showdowns- that's for the kiddies watching the idiot box. You win it one small inch at a time, all over.

On the other issues-
Time to throw in the towel on gay marriage. Too many people with gay friends, too much support, too little to be gained. (Whoopdedoo. Save some scrap of marriage. That’s worth the money.) Getting rid of gay marriage, especially with the SCOTUS decision, is going to be some SEAL level politicking, and we might get the Police Academy boys this time, instead of the Keystone Cops.

The Evangelicals can bite me. I'm sick to death of fat plate passers with pompadours. The nation’s burning down, and they've brought nothing to the party for thirty years but Israel worship and half-assed abortion clinic protests. They can have their pet issue put on silent mode for a cycle.

Taxes-I’m over libertarianism and I’m over Ayn Rand. Someone should trade higher taxes on salaries over 750K a year for a lower corporate tax rate below X amount of cash flow. I'm sick of going to bat for Wall Street's W-4. That would throw the anti-bankster vote into play, give American industry a massive shot in the ass by maybe stealing some jobs BACK from Ireland, and screw the GOPe where it hurts.

Also, whoever was upset about H1B1s. Love of mercy- do you think Indian software engineers are shooting up San Diego pier? You're like someone with blood poisoning complaining that the penicillin tastes awful. Be glad you’ve got any option.

What else am I supposed to care about? Oh, right. Israel. This is super good or super bad or super Da Yews or some such crap. You know what it is? Super cheap. 3.1 billion a year? Don't make me laugh. Don't make me laugh so hard I need to invest in special adult diapers. I wish we could do so good elsewhere.

But here’s the rub:
It took, what, 70 years to get here? More than that- commies have been trying since 1919 or so. All those years, all that generational infiltration of every organization on earth. The rewriting of history, of science, of art, of literature, of music, of the constitution, of love, and sex, and gender, and normalcy....just to start a list. The years of losing and coming back and losing more.
And you're pissed you can't turn it around with one vote? Did you grandpa bitch about how after all those monkeyshines on Omaha, he had to fight AGAIN in France?

No shit they're all a bunch of twats. One or two are slightly better twats than usual. Next time, we get even better twats. Maybe we get a few professors in at Yale. Maybe we get a few bands singing at our rallies. Maybe we get a few books....oh, wait. Got that.
That's what they had. That's what they had, back in 1950 when McCarthy had them on the run. A few books, a few bands, and some professors with tenure at big schools. Even Hollywood kicked them out.
Like I said above- this isn't the Lone Ranger. This isn't the TeeVee. This is the real world, and in the real world, you have to burn every Jap out of the Marshall Islands. Then Guadalcanal, and Leyte, and the Philippines and New Guinea...

And that's before you're even geared up for the main event.

Buckle up kids. We aren't going to win in this election, or the next, or the next, no matter who runs. But- if we are young, and strong, and fight like hell…we may win an election before we die.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 9:07 PM  

@106 Daniel
CNBC is a channel?
---

It was last night. After last night, I bet sponsors are thinking of bailing on that place.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 29, 2015 9:09 PM  

I agree. Probably the reason why Trump made sure that 7th day adventist was a term that many evangelicals would find more about. SDA do have some beliefs that will be surprising to the evangelicals.

Blogger Were-Puppy October 29, 2015 9:35 PM  

I used to work for one of those SDA. They seem like wanna be Jews to follow all these regulations and whatever from the Old Testament.

Blogger rcocean October 29, 2015 9:51 PM  

John Carter = another open borders Liberaltarian. yawn.

Blogger StrongCoffee61 October 29, 2015 9:52 PM  

Brains, balls, AND money.

A successful Republican candidate is going to need all 3 to defeat media darling Hilary who will also be able to raise more money.

Trump is the only one who has a realistic chance to win.
He can use his own wealth to overcome the demonrats money advantage and buy airtime to speak unfiltered to the American electorate. This is critically important.

Blogger Stilicho #0066 October 29, 2015 10:24 PM  

Nate, they hate Cruz because he's a Baptist. Nothing scares a northeastern liberal RINO like a Baptist. Sure, the RINO and his neocon friends SAY they believe in GodN but they're pretty sure the Baptist means it.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 29, 2015 10:26 PM  

Like some other posters, I've been surprised by the number of working Democrats I know who say they'd back Trump.

Not all that big of a surprise. The white Blue Collar Joe has been pretty much completely abandoned by the Democrats. The only unions they really care about at this point are the public sector ones.

Private sector unions have had their day, so far as the Dems are concerned. The white male worker is somewhat problematic for them at this point.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 29, 2015 10:38 PM  

@115

At this point there is the possibility that Trump could land the nomination.

But I see no possible path to victory for Trump in a national election. He can't get to 51%. He's still hovering around 26% of the GOP but he's not doing better than that. Meaning he has 13% of the national vote sewn up.

But there is simply too much resistance to him on the other side of the equation. Its the same reason I knew and said, Jeb Bush wasn't going anywhere.

Now if Carson's supporters go to Trump when he finally bows out, I'll happily eat my words.

But they won't, Carson's supporters will sigh in despair and then trudge over to Cruz.

Anonymous John Carter October 29, 2015 10:38 PM  

@114-

Oh, I'm sorry- I figured there were people here who didn't need everything spelled out for them like I was writing a facebook post.

But allow me to make this simple for you:
H1B1- not nation ending problem.
Gay marriage- not nation ending problem.
Uncontrolled mexican immigration- nation ending problem.

Hence the references to "San Diego Pier" and the whole blood poisoning metaphor.

Now, kid- run along and read the funny papers, would ya? I'm hoping to talk to some grownups here, and you're scaring the straights.

Anonymous farmer Tom October 29, 2015 11:12 PM  

I haven't posted in quite a while.

Here on the ground in Iowa, I already see it as a 3 man race, question is, which 3 men?

First there are the Trump voters. I wouldn't spend a long time on their profile, but most of them are unprincipled, working stiffs who care about little in the way of policy, save immigration. They ignore the fact that Trump has advocated big government single payer healthcare, that he loves eminent domain,(talked at length about what a great thing Kelo was) and is generally very vague when answering questions about anything other then immigration.
Second are the Cruz faithful. Almost all Christian Conservatives who did not vote for McCrazy or Willard, and hate the establishment Repukes with an undying passion. Almost all of them I know supporting Cruz have personally talked to me about a third party at some time or other. THEY HATE THE GAY OLD PARTY, but can not get a third party on the ballot, so they are picking the guy who spends at least half his time ripping the GOP. And is fighting them with all he has from his Senate seat. They love his pro-Israel stance. They love his open embrace of evangelical Christianity, and they love his tough talk on Obozocare. (continued insurance increases are KILLING family budgets)
In the Cruz camp I include the hold outs who think Jindal, Santorum and the Huckster still have a chance. Almost every one of them admit that if their guy drops out they will support Cruz.
Third is the other man. Probably Rubio. But I say probably because it is anyone who will carry the establishment GOP label. The Party leaders in Iowa are touting Christie. Sycophant Repukes are still taking Bush or Kasich? But in the end, there will be one Repuke schill for the establishment, and it is most likely to be Rubio.

The Gay Old Party is fractured beyond repair. If Trump wins, many evangelicals will sit out the election. If Rubio wins, many other conservatives will pass, or write in a third party, not so much in spite of Rubio, but to spite the establishment GOP.

If Cruz wins, I fully expect the establishment GOP to encourage Biden to change his mind, urging him to get back in the race.

The establishment GOP hates Ted Cruz and Christian Conservatives far worse than they dislike big government establishment people like Rubio, Christie or even Hillary.

That's my take on it.

Blogger dfordoom October 29, 2015 11:16 PM  

I think this "burn it down faster" notion is the alt-right variant on Rod Dreher's "get me to a nunnery" routine: both seem to be fed by either defeatism or the desire not to fight until the battle is pitched in stark terms of good and evil.

Because the only way you'll ever get people to actually fight is when it comes down to good vs evil, survival vs death. It's sad and tragic but as long as the destruction of a society happens gradually hardly anyone notices and the few who notice do nothing.

That's why the "moderate" conservatives (cuckservatives if you like) are far more dangerous than the out-and-out leftists. The out-and-out leftists don't bother to hide their hostility to civilisation so they provide a visible enemy.

Anonymous farmer Tom October 29, 2015 11:27 PM  

One more comment to go with my previous.

I wonder? Would the establishment GOP take Trump over Cruz if their man Rubio is not getting traction?

Trump is pro-big government healthcare. He is pro-big tough military,(always talking about veterans and a strong military) and with Ryan now in charge in the House, they may think they can control Trump on the immigration issue.

We know they HATE Cruz. Look what GWB had to say about him last weekend.

GWB on Cruz

Cruz called McConusall a liar on the Senate floor, and most of the Senate Repukes despise Cruz because he won't follow their feckless, linguini spined plan of compromise on everything.

Liar

I think the establishment pukes would much prefer Trump over Cruz. Kinda like they hated Reagan in 1980.

Blogger Groot October 29, 2015 11:30 PM  

I YouTubed some debate clips and finally saw some of these guys "in person." Rubio and Cruz were impressive, especially in contrast with any Bush, Kerry, McCain, et al., etc., for decades. Only the lying early Obama and Reagan were in the same class. Kasich and Trump are buffoons, but Trump was much more likeable than I had expected. After Rubio's epic takedown of ¡Jeb!, at least Carson's rebuttal allowed him to reassure us that the train was OK.

@48. Oddrobb:

The Supreme Court appointments are just about the only important issue, IMAO.
We are Cahoot.

@80. Gaiseric:
"I think maybe part of the problem is that nobody thinks that they can control him, because nobody really knows what he's going to do next."

It takes a Vandal to know a Vandal. I think you're right.

@83. Cail Corishev:
"You can't ensure good appointments by electing Republicans, as we've proven many times now."

Yet you can ensure catastrophic appointments by electing Democrats.

@86. Sam Lively:
"either defeatism or the desire not to fight"

I agree with this Lively debate. Quitters quit. Adults vote.

@93. Jourdan:

Buck up, man! So broken and cynical after such a short time in the Capitol. It's almost heart wrenching. How hot is that kichen?

Anonymous NewAnubis October 29, 2015 11:33 PM  

I found it of particular interest that the commentators were basically little-known, little-seen by anyone before this debate. Our group of watchers figured that CNBC self-preservation executives did not want their (ahem) A-team on panel for fear of the likely pummeling they'd receive.

Say what you will about Trump, Cruz, Rubio, and Huckabee but these four lads are quick on their feet and dole out tongue lashings quicker than the FED institutes new QEs.

Just a thought...

Blogger IM2L844 October 29, 2015 11:45 PM  

Whatever happens, it's going to be interesting. What are the odds of a sufficient number of blacks defecting to Carson rather than continuing to support a lying rich old white woman?

On a more serious note, it's good to see we've reached consensus. I wouldn't want us to lose our lock-step echo chamber status among the SJW lurkers. /s

Blogger Desiderius October 29, 2015 11:55 PM  

"The establishment GOP hates Ted Cruz and Christian Conservatives far worse than they dislike big government establishment people like Rubio, Christie or even Hillary."

There's a good, healthy majority in this country, Left, Right, and Center, including a lot of capable people, who loathe the establishment GOP. That's a winning coalition if it can be brought to bear.

Blogger StrongCoffee61 October 30, 2015 12:01 AM  

Quibbling about Trump's positions besides immigration is like worrying about a nose job for a trauma patient who's bleeding to death.

As Ann Coulter has correctly pointed out; if we don't fix immigration, then nothing else matters.

In terms of current importance, immigration is the Empire State Building. All the other issues combined are a pile of bricks.

Blogger Danby October 30, 2015 12:06 AM  

Also, whoever was upset about H1B1s. Love of mercy- do you think Indian software engineers are shooting up San Diego pier?

So... immigrants are only a problem when they are low-wage? 150,000 IT guys direct from Mumbai will be far more effective at destroying this country , turning it into India that yet another 1,000,000 from Mexico.

Anonymous The Kulak October 30, 2015 1:56 AM  

@ 122 I know people who know people who talk to Cruz's folks. Even some of them admit he's tacked towards neo-contardness on foreign policy and he was much more popular when he was saying 'let's not be Al-Qaeda's air force in Syria' kicking neocon butt back in August 2013. I guess you have to at least act a bit Cold War 2-ish to get the deep pocketed donor bucks. But what I still don't get is this: if Sheldon Adelson is so worried about Israel and he's backing nutty neocons who want to give every jihadi a MANPAD with which to play Charlie Wilson's War in Syria, why is Bibi so unconcerned about Putin's air force bombing the crap out of jihadis within spitting distance of the Israeli-held Golan Heights? Cognitive dissonance much anyone?

https://twitter.com/islamicworldupd/status/659046863384006656

Blogger LP999/S.I.G. Burnin' Up! October 30, 2015 2:16 AM  

9 Disturbing, have I overlooked a vital policy issue? Then I must swiftly review Rand and the matter or policy of open borders for myself.

Overall I remain dissatisfied with the GOP and Dem field in 2015. I'll continue to monitor 2016 electioneer entries but I dont hold much hope for a already conquered lost post america.

Blogger Doc Rampage October 30, 2015 2:30 AM  

Just one more voice to point out that Cruz is the original anti-GOP-establishment candidate in this race. He started as a Tea Party candidate who defeated the GOP establishment choice for Senate. In the Senate his stunts are all aimed at forcing the GOP establishment to actually oppose the Democrats or at least embarrass them for not doing so. He has been anti-immigration from the beginning. He has repeatedly called out the GOP party leadership and has called the majority leader a liar on the Senate floor.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 30, 2015 7:23 AM  

H1B1- not nation ending problem.

If you're trying to build a coalition to fight a nation-ending problem, why wouldn't you want the large block of intelligent STEM workers who are being pushed out of their jobs by immigrants in your coalition? It's a natural alliance against the same problem: corporations and government using cheap foreign labor to displace and disempower Americans. Makes sense to bring them together in a common cause.

Unless you have an ulterior motive, of course.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 30, 2015 8:01 AM  

He has been anti-immigration from the beginning.

Why didn't Numbers USA know that? They watch such things pretty closely. Seems like they would have known that.

I don't follow US politics that closely anymore, so it's possible I don't know them all that well. But generally, if there's some guy out there who's bucking the establishment, I'm aware of him. I knew plenty about Ron Paul. I used to know about guys like Bob Dornan, who embarrassed the GOP by demanding that it follow up on the conservatism it professed in elections. Guys who deviate from the GOP program tend to get some press, because the media always likes to show the party being disunited.

I haven't heard of Cruz in that sense. Heck, I wasn't hearing any of this about him a month ago. It's just started up since Bush faded. Odd, that.

Saying "Tea Party" doesn't say "anti-establishment" to me. Just the opposite. The Tea Partieers I know are all committed, card-carrying Republicans who are upset with the party about something (usually taxes and/or spending) and trying to change it. Good people, but certainly not outside the establishment. They want to tweak the establishment, not burn it down. On immigration, they're either aggressively uninterested -- because if you are, someone might call you racist -- or generally pro-immigration and will tell you that American workers deserve to be replaced because they're lazy and don't want to work anymore. The small business owners are especially fond of that last bit.

Good for Cruz for what he's said in the past few weeks, really. But I sense I'm being sold a pig in a poke here, and the poke is so thin I can see the new lipstick on the pig. A Harvard lawyer who's worked in government all his career and married into Goldman-Sachs has suddenly been a bible-thumping, anti-immigration, thorn in the side of the GOP all along? Pull the other one.

Blogger Josh October 30, 2015 8:03 AM  

Just one more voice to point out that Cruz is the original anti-GOP-establishment candidate in this race.

Uh, Rand?

Anonymous Tom Joad October 30, 2015 8:27 AM  

Rubio was defending himself from an editorial in the Sun Sentinel calling on Marco to stop “ripping off” the public and quit the Senate because of his poor attendance record. Rubio responded that John Kerry and Barack Obama had been even more truant from the Senate while running for president and the paper had not only ignored that, but given these men their endorsement. It was an example of liberal media bias at its most obvious.

Except for the inconvenient (and ignored) fact that the newspaper had also given its endorsement to Rubio and Romney.

Anonymous Miso Hawny October 30, 2015 8:53 AM  

Well since neither Cruz nor Rubio is a Natural Born Citizen, I guess that leaves Trump.

Blogger SciVo October 30, 2015 9:37 AM  

Nate @47: The GOP establish appears to hate Cruz. I am befuddled as to why because from here he looks like a standard bomb-everyone neo-con.

The establishment's only principled policy position is to not have one, so Cruz could agree with them on everything and they wouldn't care.

They don't like his style. He doesn't wait on the bench for the coach to tell him it's his turn; he just runs out on the field and starts playing. They can't stand that.

Blogger SciVo October 30, 2015 9:51 AM  

Cail Corishev @56: Maybe they're just butthurt that their chosen Jeb is dying, so they're taking it out on whoever tries to replace him.

No, watch as they gracefully pivot all their support to Rubio. He was supposed to just be a stalking horse for Jeb, but they don't care.

It's nothing personal. They don't really care who (or even what) is in the Oval Office, as long as xe takes direction well -- and that is the sticking point with Cruz.

Blogger Cail Corishev October 30, 2015 10:07 AM  

SciVo,

That's becoming my conclusion. Policy-wise, I don't think you could have picked Cruz out of an establishment line-up a few months ago without squinting pretty hard. So I assume it's personal: maybe backroom conflict between oil or banking families, or maybe he just rubs some of the wrong people the wrong way. Refusing to stand in line and take instruction could cause that.

I get the feeling that we're being offered a Cruz/Rubio choice as a Trump alternative at the moment. People who want someone more serious and establishment -- the people who would have been happy with Jeb -- can go with Rubio. Those who were anti-establishment enough to consider Trump can ease back to the relative, but-still-kinda-edgy safety of Cruz. They'll let them fight it out a bit and see which one comes out on top. They'd prefer Rubio as the next best thing to Bush; but at this point they'd take the proverbial dead dog over Trump, as long as the dog worked for the GOP all its life.

It's interesting that, after the Democrats elected a black president, two of the three supposed front-runners for the GOP are Cuban. I don't think it was planned that way, but here we are.

Blogger Dexter October 30, 2015 10:50 AM  

Also, whoever was upset about H1B1s. Love of mercy- do you think Indian software engineers are shooting up San Diego pier?

There is a school around here - ironically, named after a female diversity heroine - that is 65% Indian and 20% white.

If you don't think that's a problem, for all that those are no doubt the kids of software engineers, you need to think harder about the issue.

Are they "assimilating" - or forming their own little Balkan enclave?

Blogger James Dixon October 30, 2015 12:56 PM  

John Carter posts a bunch of talking points which basically summarize as Christian conservatives have already lost and should just give up. Another day, another "give up already" post.

> But I see no possible path to victory for Trump in a national election. He can't get to 51%.

Against Hillary? My cat could get 51% against Hillary.

> What are the odds of a sufficient number of blacks defecting to Carson rather than continuing to support a lying rich old white woman?

I'd guess almost none. It's never worked before. IMO, Trump has a better chance of drawing black votes than Carson does. I;d ove to be wrong about this.

> Well since neither Cruz nor Rubio is a Natural Born Citizen

While true, I don't see that mattering to the electorate. I can't blame you for voting your conscience though.

Anonymous Miso Hawny October 30, 2015 2:50 PM  

@ James Dixon

Right, I certainly don't expect the electorate or any court to care about the Constitution (beyond misinterpreting the first two amendments anyway).

Blogger Were-Puppy October 30, 2015 5:46 PM  

@127 StrongCoffee61
Quibbling about Trump's positions besides immigration is like worrying about a nose job for a trauma patient who's bleeding to death.

As Ann Coulter has correctly pointed out; if we don't fix immigration, then nothing else matters.

In terms of current importance, immigration is the Empire State Building. All the other issues combined are a pile of bricks.
---

I agree. Also hoping that they will bring more attention to the H1B ripoff, but for starters even talking about illegal immigration is a huge plus.

Blogger TheRedSkull October 30, 2015 11:46 PM  

"I can't blame you for voting your conscience though."

That is an oxymoron, unless your conscience permits you to support USG.

The only conscientious vote is RAGE - Retire All Government Employees. It is not on the ballot.

You might as well try to shoot your conscience in WWI. Which doesn't mean that, if you're there, you shouldn't shoot...

Blogger James Dixon October 31, 2015 3:41 AM  

> That is an oxymoron, unless your conscience permits you to support USG.

Someone is trying to do what they think is right to the best of their ability, and you think it's an oxymoron. What was it that Vox said about shooting at those on your own side again?

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts