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Thursday, November 05, 2015

The sound of SJW silence

Breitbart Tech observably notes the mysterious silence in the technology media concerning the explosive claims of feminists "taking runs" at OSS project leaders and Linus Torvalds being targeted for disqualification by the Ada Initiative:
Discontent at the behaviour of feminists in tech has already been spreading in the open source community thanks to the feminist-led introduction of controversial codes of conduct for developers on some open source projects. But these new claims elevate feminists in tech from the controversial to the potentially criminal.

The claims of Raymond’s source could also provide an explanation for why so many tech diversity activists, such as the innovation expert Vivek Wadhwa, and the Puerto Rican software developer Roberto Rosario, have been mercilessly set upon by tech feminists.

If feminists are trying to frame software developers for sexual assault, it would be important for them to occupy the chief positions in the “diversity movement” to ensure the incidents were followed by sufficient outrage across the movement. Prominent diversity activists who are not subscribed so such nefarious methods could therefore present a problem.

Despite widespread discussion in the industry of the explosive claims on Raymond’s blog, and the stature of Raymond within software development, other tech news outlets – normally champing at the bit to report on diversity issues – have so far been curiously silent on this story. Breitbart Tech is, thus far, the exception.
What's happening should not be surprising, as the attempts of SJWs to destroy technology through social justice convergence is the entire objective of the "diversity in tech" movement. It's not about improving technology at all, it is about forcing a white male stronghold into the same sort of submission to which other industries have been subjected.

This is exactly what action to seize the cultural high ground looks like. We just haven't seen it before up close and personal because it happened elsewhere.

Reject "diversity in tech". Reject "girls who code". Reject every single initiative being put forth by the SJWs, no matter how innocuous they sound, because every single one of them has an insidious and destructive purpose.

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93 Comments:

Anonymous Peter Garstig November 05, 2015 5:13 AM  

I fully support codebabes. Diversity done right.

Anonymous Anonymous Cowherd November 05, 2015 5:37 AM  

4 gang rapes in Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt.

Rape culture is real but being carried out by who the SJWs will remain silent over.

Reject every single initiative being put forth by the SJWs, no matter how innocuous they sound, because every single one of them has an insidious and destructive purpose.

Anonymous pils November 05, 2015 6:00 AM  

Emacs under attack too with a code of conduct

Anonymous Dyskord November 05, 2015 6:04 AM  

I sometimes wonder if it would work to use the Feminists own tactics against them. Their greatest enemy is supposedly white men and The Patriarchy. What if we started pointing out that the majority Feminists are white women and represent an oppressive Matriarchy which excludes women of color. Point to figures of white female CEO's and white female celebs, news casters etc and watch as they turn on each other..

@ 2 The SJW live in a bubble. What we call reality they mock and deride safe in the knowledge of their moral superiority and comforted by their socialist ideology which has replaced God in their lives. Its not that they're blind to the truth, it's that they refuse to see it.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 05, 2015 6:29 AM  

Who funds them? What these tech trolls couldn't do for MS or FB, GOOG, and the pinnacle of SJW tech gadget status whore AAPL if in their employ. But they are nothing more than political props, those companies wouldn't touch them with a 10 ft pole.

Blogger Patrick November 05, 2015 6:30 AM  

There's this story too: Could Go Community's Threat of Public Shaming, Lifetime Bans Make Go a No-Go?
http://developers.slashdot.org/story/15/11/02/0650200/could-go-communitys-threat-of-public-shaming-lifetime-bans-make-go-a-no-go

Blogger VD November 05, 2015 6:33 AM  

What if we started pointing out that the majority Feminists are white women and represent an oppressive Matriarchy which excludes women of color. Point to figures of white female CEO's and white female celebs, news casters etc and watch as they turn on each other.

What a great idea! And Republicans could start pointing out that Democrats are the real racists too! Victory is at hand!

Seriously, have you not been paying attention for the last 30 years? Dialectic doesn't work in a rhetorical war. Your suggested tactic is little more than an expression of a desire to win by doing nothing.

Anonymous Irrational fear of beheading November 05, 2015 6:34 AM  

More on Magdeburg People should now what is going on so they can protect their families and themselves

Blogger YIH November 05, 2015 6:35 AM  

It's not that much of a surprise to me.
Visit sites like The Register, when not writing specifically about some tech product, they often tack from left to SJW - pro-AGW, pro-immigration, feminism, anti-gun, ect, ect.
It's why I rarely visit such sites anymore.

Blogger VD November 05, 2015 6:37 AM  

Its not that they're blind to the truth, it's that they refuse to see it.

Given that you recognize this, how on Earth do you imagine that proving them to be hypocrites is going to have any effect whatsoever?

Blogger Cail Corishev November 05, 2015 6:52 AM  

Emacs under attack too with a code of conduct

Having read the linked article and the mailing list thread, this looks like something different, though it's still dangerous. In this case, they have a development mailing list that's gotten clogged up with too much off-topic discussion, so he wants to create a Code that specifies what's on-topic and establishes a rule that off-topic posters will be temporarily banned, so they can clean it up. Apparently no one has the authority or the guts to just do it without paperwork in place.

That's actually not a big deal. We used to call it a "charter," which laid out the purpose and requirements for a mailing list or other group. You were expected to find it and read it if you wanted to participate; and if you violated it, it provided a clear standard by which you could be stopped. By calling it a Code of Conduct, he opens it up to being used for other purposes, though. (He may be a raging SJW and that's his true intention. I don't know him, so I can't say; but it's common for tech people to be naive about this stuff, as we've seen.)

The difference is that the purpose of a charter is to protect the group from bad individuals. It's all about making sure the group stays on topic and can be used for its intended purpose. The purpose of a Code is to give individual members recourse against other members or the group itself over behavior they don't like. They're actually opposites.

It's as if you have a Tuesday-night poker group with a handful of buddies. A "charter" would say things like, "No chicks allowed. BYOB." Rules that everyone has to follow to keep the thing on target. A "Code" would say, "If something another guy says at the table makes you uncomfortable, here's how you can change it."

Blogger Cail Corishev November 05, 2015 7:03 AM  

Who funds them?

Vox tweeted this yesterday:

"Google is giving $2.35 million in grants to community organizations on the forefront of the racial justice movement to fund SJW action."

Unfortunately, Social Justice Convergence doesn't happen overnight. These companies have a lot of money to throw around, and will continue to do so even as they die. Twitter just keeps losing millions, but it still has a budget to pay people to listen to SJW complaints and ban their targets.

None of the professional SJWs are going to go hungry, or stop showing up at conferences because they had to get real jobs, for lack of financial support any time soon. They'll stop showing up when corporations like Google don't want to be socially connected with them anymore and stop inviting them.

Blogger Shimshon November 05, 2015 7:06 AM  

"...but it's common for tech people to be naive about this stuff, as we've seen."

I have a friend who sent me a link about the ESR post hours after Vox's post. He's pretty libertarian but could be described as a classic moderate. Accepts things like there should be more women in tech, tech leaders like Linus should be more "polite" and that sort of thing. He's pretty good otherwise, so I just advised him to aim his fire at SJWs, not at Linus, because even if he's rude, we're on the same side, and that he'll likely see soon enough how bad SJWs are.

Understands that there SJWs, doesn't consider them a big threat (yet), and the logic they exhibit, such as it is, seems irrational to him.

Anonymous Dyskord November 05, 2015 7:08 AM  

I retract my foolish suggestion. You're right i was holding them accountable to a system of rules they do not acknowledge. I admit I'm not particularly skilled at the current culture war and no where near your level VD but I am learning.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 05, 2015 7:15 AM  

Forking from Dyskord's suggestion, weaponize the dialectic into rhetoric that disqualifies the SJWs of a particular bent from the moral high ground

It is the problem of the Right they absolutely own the Mental level of war, probably could dominate the physical with some bit of tussle against the orcs but will absolutely grab their ankles and beg for lube when it comes to tackling the Left's ownership of the highest and most important level of war, the Moral.

Blogger VD November 05, 2015 7:23 AM  

Understands that there SJWs, doesn't consider them a big threat (yet), and the logic they exhibit, such as it is, seems irrational to him.

That's the point. They don't use logic. They are irrational.

Blogger VD November 05, 2015 7:24 AM  

will absolutely grab their ankles and beg for lube when it comes to tackling the Left's ownership of the highest and most important level of war, the Moral.

Exactly.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 05, 2015 7:30 AM  

Seems like the Cucks could be displaced by pointing out that they fail on the Moral level of the war amongst the base of conservatives. As of now they get to play the moderate with little direct competition except the further Right screaming louder the usual RINO labeling and forgetting to state the obvious. Let the cucks and moderates defend the Left's grip on the Moral level of war and the cucks and moderates inaction at best complicity at worst behavior.

Blogger Salt November 05, 2015 7:38 AM  

how on Earth do you imagine that proving them to be hypocrites is going to have any effect whatsoever?

the highest and most important level of war, the Moral.

Eventually the moral high ground will embrace excising the SJW element. One does not argue with disease.

Blogger Shimshon November 05, 2015 7:39 AM  

@16 Vox, that's exactly what I told him. He's too narrowly focused, and they haven't made the inroads in tech in Israel to the same extent as Silicon Valley (the IDF feeds much of the talent and is still totally male-dominated as far as I understand it). But he sees it, and I've explained some of the processes going on. The Aristotle quote is perfect for those who think dialectically. Also highly recommended SJWAL of course.

Blogger Shimshon November 05, 2015 7:39 AM  

Also, he was really skeptical of ESR as a source. That I can understand.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 05, 2015 7:48 AM  

Salt, I imagine the weak rhetoric from the Right such as "real racist" are the beginning attempts to copy Alinsky. I'm not totally dismissive of them even if I shake my head at the results

Blogger Phillip George November 05, 2015 7:52 AM  

Irrational fear of beheading. thanks for that. Isn't that technically "decapiphobia" you're suffering from? Decapiphobia is illegal now and discrimination - like sexist, misogynist, islamophobic - all of which are worse than illegal, Failure to maintain a butt plug at all moments of the day also indicates lack of inclusion, intolerance, bigotry. And a hate crime.

I would reckon this funny in a way. the joke is de"churching" meant an exponential increase in sanctimony.

It's not a weekly sermon, it a continuous endless cacophony of them. Pick up tomorrow's newspapers and it will be 90 to 100 percent puerile preachy nonsense. Smug stupid nonsense. Hypocritical nonsense.

this will all go down soon. :broken arrow is the military expression.

Blogger Phillip George November 05, 2015 8:02 AM  

bombophobia, decapiphobia, stabophobia

Blogger VD November 05, 2015 8:18 AM  

Also, he was really skeptical of ESR as a source. That I can understand.

I know ESR. I very, very much doubt he would make up something like this; it actually tends to go against his natural leanings.

Blogger VD November 05, 2015 8:19 AM  

I imagine the weak rhetoric from the Right such as "real racist" are the beginning attempts to copy Alinsky.

They're not. Such attempts long predate awareness of Alinsky. It's not weak rhetoric, it's dialectic.

Blogger Desiderius November 05, 2015 8:42 AM  

"One does not argue with disease."

This.

Blogger Matamoros November 05, 2015 8:55 AM  

A useful article: How a handful of activists turned the tide in pro-Putin Czech Republic| #FormulaOfAction

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/11/05/how-a-handful-of-activists-turned-the-tide-in-pro-putin-czech-republic-formulaofaction/

Blogger Kallmunz November 05, 2015 9:02 AM  

While we all agree here I think that we can also agree on one exception to this rule, Apple. We should press Apple to bring on more women starting with Randi Harper as head of development.

Blogger James Dixon November 05, 2015 9:04 AM  

> I sometimes wonder if it would work to use the Feminists own tactics against them.

Yes, but not in the way you propose.

>. What if we started pointing out that the majority Feminists are white women and represent an oppressive Matriarchy which excludes women of color.

They already know this. They don't care. The rules are for us, not them. They'll break them anytime they want to.

> The SJW live in a bubble. What we call reality they mock and deride safe in the knowledge of their moral superiority and comforted by their socialist ideology which has replaced God in their lives.

So puncture the bubble. Let them know they're not safe from the real world. Make it intrude on their everyday lives. Make them know there's no safe place for them to retreat to. These people are already mentally unstable. They actually need that "safe space" they keep demanding. Take it away from them. It will destroy their ability to function.

It's what they've been doing to us for years. Time to return the favor.

> Also, he was really skeptical of ESR as a source. That I can understand.

ESR wasn't the source. He was the medium the source chose to use.

Blogger Jakeithus November 05, 2015 9:05 AM  

Vox,

I agree that the "real racisct" attempts by the Right have been wholly unsuccessful. Is that because the entire strategy is been flawed or merely the method that has been undertaken (dialectic rather than rhetorical)? Basically, can there be any rhetorical success out of continually pushing a meme "the Left like pushing abortion because they hate poor brown people" or one like it?

Blogger ncartist November 05, 2015 9:06 AM  

@ 28. Matamoros
How a handful of activists turned the tide in pro-Putin Czech Republic

This activism requires funding and guidance ( Soros, Washington, CIA and, likely, those who must not be named) and compliant media outlets: so don't give credit to the sock puppets.

Blogger Shimshon November 05, 2015 9:12 AM  

@25 Yeah I get that too. ESR may be many things, but not that. Again, this guy's perspective. Most people, even smart skeptical ones, are still in the benefit-of-the-doubt camp. As you've pointed out, it's only now that the SJW fangs have really been bared. They have a hard time believing they are as bad as we say or as determined and destructive as they appear, since it's so contrary to their own dialectic ways. Especially for geeks who make their living on rigorous logic.

Blogger bob k. mando November 05, 2015 9:29 AM  

one of the very first feminist causes was Temperance. ie - shaming men for drinking.

during WW1, women shamed men into combat by bestowing white feathers on those they considered to be malingering ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather ). a mere 45 years later, the hippy chicks were shaming men for going to war in Vietnam ...


Feminism is simply applied female social abuse used to control others, especially men.

always has been.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 05, 2015 9:38 AM  

Now maybe I'm mistaken but I have always put the word "racist" down as rhetoric but I'll take your point.

One thing I think to our advantage across all the battles I think the left has basically in this era of Jon Stewart given up the mental level of war which will lead to huge mistakes on the moral level and hopefully the physical as well

Blogger Stephen Ward November 05, 2015 9:42 AM  

@31

The rhetoric you are trying to use has too many mental steps in it. Simplify, simplify

The left doesn't push abortion because they hate brown people, they push abortion because they hate children.

That's still not great, but it is better.

Blogger Salt November 05, 2015 9:47 AM  

The left doesn't push abortion because they hate brown people, they push abortion because they hate children.

Not even. They push abortion because each act they use to represent women's empowerment.

Blogger Alexander November 05, 2015 9:50 AM  

Woman > 18, Man = W + 20; EXPLOITATION OF YOUNG WOMEN!!!

Girl <12, Man = G + 20; Loving mentorship.

Of course, maybe we're reading this the wrong way. Maybe they just want to make Muslim immigrants more comfortable.

Blogger Jakeithus November 05, 2015 9:57 AM  

Stephen,

I don't agree that your example is better rhetoric. I think it'd be much more acceptable for a Leftists to say " I don't really like children" than for them to say "I don't really like poor brown people". The former has people agree and say "children are messy and needy and loud, I kinda get it" while the latter has everyone shrieking "RACISSSS".

I see rhetorical potential in both lines of attack, but how to successfully deploy it doesn't come naturally.

Anonymous Joseph November 05, 2015 10:25 AM  

It would seem to prove a blogger posts that America has a false rape culture not a rape culture.
http://antifeministsite.blogspot.com/2015/09/does-america-have-false-rape-culture.html
Politicians,the laws and especially the media are making easy to make false rape accusations against men.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 10:35 AM  

@7. VD

Seriously, have you not been paying attention for the last 30 years? Dialectic doesn't work in a rhetorical war. Your suggested tactic is little more than an expression of a desire to win by doing nothing.

Yes, that's right. We have not been paying attention for the last 30 years. Seriously. We were too engrossed in working the slide rule to pay much attention to this rhetoric stuff. Didn't even much know the difference. SJWAL changed all that. Now we've learned not to bring a slide rule to a gunfight.

OpenID Jack Amok November 05, 2015 11:10 AM  

Seems like the Cucks could be displaced by pointing out that they fail on the Moral level of the war amongst the base of conservatives

Most people won't know what you're talking about when you say "moral level of war." The message they will understand - once things are bad enough they can't ignore it- is "those fools are losing the war and you are suffering because of it."

The basic problem we have is that most people are comfortable enough they don't want to risk upsetting the apple cart. Our challenge is to get people to realize how little reason they have to be comfortable. SJWs - like the rapists in Magdeburg - are helping greatly by routinely assaulting people. What we need to do is hammer home the message that "you're next, Mr. and Mrs Moderate, unless you stand up and do something."

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 11:11 AM  

@3 pils
Emacs under attack too with a code of conduct
---

Damn these SJW spores show up everywhere don't they.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 11:13 AM  

@4 Dyskord
I sometimes wonder if it would work to use the Feminists own tactics against them. Their greatest enemy is supposedly white men and The Patriarchy. What if we started pointing out that the majority Feminists are white women and represent an oppressive Matriarchy which excludes women of color. Point to figures of white female CEO's and white female celebs, news casters etc and watch as they turn on each other..
---

You've missed the rise of the intersectionalists. They may not be prominent in tech yet, but they are wreaking a lot of havoc in many other places. So that makes the #2 target straight white women.

Blogger SciVo November 05, 2015 11:13 AM  

Dyskord @14: I retract my foolish suggestion.

It's not a bad idea per se, but you're not the first to think of it, and its peak effectiveness was with the #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen hashtag (that you apparently didn't even notice). The results aren't worth the effort.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 05, 2015 11:17 AM  

Girl <12, Man = G + 20; Loving mentorship.

I'm fairly sure this isn't primarily about men with Lolita complexes. They exist, but the big push here is about homosexual men who want a younger (or no) age of consent. There's a reason it's called NAMBLA, not NAMGLA.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they tried to lower or eliminate the age for boys and not for girls. It already angers them when a man over 20 dates an 18-year-old girl; they're downright prudes when the age difference is going that direction. That might be too obvious, though; so they may have to sacrifice the girls to get at the boys.

Anonymous BGS November 05, 2015 11:17 AM  

Feminists silent on 1700+ little white girls gang raped in Rotherham by 3rd world moslems while cops ignored, but a month after cops admitted they ignored it because of fears of being called racist they all backed up the Managulf girl who cried rape after performing oral sex on 24 guys on video in a bar contest. It was rape because she thought 1st place was a $2000+ prize instead of a $10 prize.

Given how loud media was about 14yo Druggar playing doctor, with a lesbian couple not charged with breaking the hipaa law to reveal it, you would think they would cover leftists defending the older Hispanic in a sanctuary city that raped 8yo white girl Maddy Middleton, seen on video tossing her body into a dumpster. Oddly leftists only believe IQ matters when it comes to sentencing cop killers or Hispanics that rape 8yo white girls to death.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 11:21 AM  

@15 Mr.MantraMan

probably could dominate the physical
---

At least here in the US, I have not the slightest doubt the right would destroy the left in a physical battle. The only way they ever win is when the right or even center disarms itself and loses the survival instinct.

Blogger Josh November 05, 2015 11:27 AM  

I'm fairly sure this isn't primarily about men with Lolita complexes. They exist, but the big push here is about homosexual men who want a younger (or no) age of consent. There's a reason it's called NAMBLA, not NAMGLA.

Compare Josh Duggar to Bryan Singer

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 11:28 AM  

@30 James Dixon

They actually need that "safe space" they keep demanding. Take it away from them. It will destroy their ability to function.
----

Wow, after reading this it occurs to me that their entire concept of a safe space is simply bubble maintenance.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 11:32 AM  

@40 Jakeithus
Stephen,

I don't agree that your example is better rhetoric. I think it'd be much more acceptable for a Leftists to say " I don't really like children" than for them to say "I don't really like poor brown people". The former has people agree and say "children are messy and needy and loud, I kinda get it" while the latter has everyone shrieking "RACISSSS".

I see rhetorical potential in both lines of attack, but how to successfully deploy it doesn't come naturally.
---

It seems simple to me. Use their own rhetoric against them. They are baby killers.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 11:35 AM  

@42 Forrest Bishop
@7. VD

Seriously, have you not been paying attention for the last 30 years? Dialectic doesn't work in a rhetorical war. Your suggested tactic is little more than an expression of a desire to win by doing nothing.

Yes, that's right. We have not been paying attention for the last 30 years. Seriously. We were too engrossed in working the slide rule to pay much attention to this rhetoric stuff. Didn't even much know the difference. SJWAL changed all that. Now we've learned not to bring a slide rule to a gunfight.
----

SJWAL shined a big light on rhetoric. But reading about it is like reading the ingredients of an asparin. You have to take the medicine to really see how it's useful. Simply reading about it won't lock it into your mind. So begin practicing rhetoric here and there, and as you practice, you'll get experience where it is effective and where it isn't.

Blogger SciVo November 05, 2015 11:49 AM  

As an aside, for anyone who doesn't get the title of Eric Raymond's post, "From kafkatrap to honeytrap," his explanation of kafkatrapping is good enough for a permanent place in my bookmarks.

Blogger The Other Robot November 05, 2015 11:57 AM  

Emacs under attack too with a code of conduct

Some would think that that's the best thing for Emacs. Sure is for Stallman.

Blogger The Other Robot November 05, 2015 11:58 AM  

Will Linus confirm or deny?

Anonymous BGS November 05, 2015 12:17 PM  

Josh-Compare Josh Duggar to Bryan Singer

Compare Josh Duggar to Bryan Singer to Adrian Gonzalez

http://www.libertynewsnow.com/liberals-defend-teen-who-raped-and-murdered-little-girl/article1908

Blogger VD November 05, 2015 12:18 PM  

Wow, after reading this it occurs to me that their entire concept of a safe space is simply bubble maintenance.

Exactly. They don't want anyone around who risks puncturing their delusion bubble.

Blogger James Dixon November 05, 2015 1:23 PM  

> Exactly. They don't want anyone around who risks puncturing their delusion bubble.

And yet most of them are also social media addicts. :)

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 1:56 PM  

@53.
SJWAL shined a big light on rhetoric. But reading about it is like reading the ingredients of an asparin. You have to take the medicine to really see how it's useful. Simply reading about it won't lock it into your mind. So begin practicing rhetoric here and there, and as you practice, you'll get experience where it is effective and where it isn't.

(My inner aspie says there is only one ingredient in aspirin, and only one "a" too. And did you notice aspie...aspirin? Hmm.)

Yes, and it does not come naturally. There's occasional practice on this VP blog- and in the comments to the Breitbart Tech article- but Twitter seems to be a better venue. Rhetoric is a form of lying, like advertising, only it's lying back to a liar. I expect SJWAL is going to be joined by How To manuals from various authors.

My billion-dollar idea- offered absolutely free to VP Ilk- is an online Rhetoric Bootcamp. This would be like martial-arts sparring, where the opponents understand the idea is not to cause a permanent fainting coma. Each thread would be devoted to some particular topic, with real-life SJW rhetoric brought in to use as punching bags. Etc.

Blogger Rez Zircon November 05, 2015 2:41 PM  

Eric S. Raymond is not an alarmist. He's a realist.

As to bubble maintenance... I thought bubble wrap was made for popping....

Blogger Danby November 05, 2015 3:08 PM  

I've met and talked with esr, and read an awful lot of his writing, I used to hang out on his blog. He always struck me as being pretty careful with how he says these sorts of things, and there's no question about his dialectic chops. I take anything he says as an honest statement of his observations and thinking.

Now maybe I'm mistaken but I have always put the word "racist" down as rhetoric but I'll take your point.

The point of a rhetorical attack is to hit the opponent where they are vulnerable. Leftists aren't vulnerable to the racism attack. While they might admit to their own categorical racism when talking with Blacks or Indians, or other Leftists, they really don't consider themselves racists, and will simply brush the accusation aside. "Everybody's a little bit racist" is just a conventional piety that they're supposed to observe, not really part of their self-image.

A proper rhetorical attack hits the opponent where Xe is vulnerable.Where they are vulnerable is in things like body image, mental illness, insecurity, justified feelings of worthlessness, etc. hit them there. It always amuses me when Vox gets in a twitter argument, and he makes his point and then calls his opponent fat. You'd think such a stupid non-sequitur would be dismissed with a "WTF dude?". I know it would if somebody did that to me. Instead, most of them fly off into a rage or spend days tweeting about it. Such a laughably gratuitous response should be dismissible out of hand, but because it's where they're vulnerable, where it hurts their feelings, it's an incredibly effective attack.

Anonymous Bz November 05, 2015 3:20 PM  

"We have not been paying attention for the last 30 years. Seriously. We were too engrossed in working the slide rule to pay much attention to this rhetoric stuff. Didn't even much know the difference."

So maybe you built it up (except you didn't build that, somebody else did) but now the time has come for the SJWs to ... slide in ... and take over. Get out of the way, racist old man. Where's the cash register? And make me some coffee before I have you fired. OMG, latte you idiot!

Blogger beerme #0183 November 05, 2015 4:06 PM  

@Danby Agree & Amplify is incredibly effective against leftists in mixed group.

Anonymous Godfrey November 05, 2015 7:41 PM  

Resistance is victory.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) November 05, 2015 8:55 PM  

VD
I know ESR. I very, very much doubt he would make up something like this; it actually tends to go against his natural leanings.

Don't know him in person, but hung out at his sites for years now. He may come to different coclusions from the facts, but like like the ELoE, he agrees on basic facts, and the truth MATTERS to him. I've seen him come to several conclusions that left him very uncomfortable - including the long term viability, or possible lack therof, of womens lib.



@SciVo
As an aside, for anyone who doesn't get the title of Eric Raymond's post, "From kafkatrap to honeytrap," his explanation of kafkatrapping is good enough for a permanent place in my bookmarks.

Kafkatrapping is one. Another I keep handy is "Ethics from the Barrel of a Gun" - which applies not only to carrying weapons, but has principles generalizable to ANY environment where constant life-or-death awareness is needed.

http://www.catb.org/esr/guns/gun-ethics.html

Blogger Groot November 05, 2015 9:01 PM  

@41. Forrest Bishop:
"Now we've learned not to bring a slide rule to a gunfight."

Nice.

My three favorite rhetorical devices: humor, fear, and honor. Humor, enough said.

Fear is magically powerful, especially with women (and SJWs, but I repeat myself). It thrills them, and they coalesce around it (you minion types know this). You don't want to get Daddy mad.

One of my favorite situations ('cause it's funny): Some little gamma (or whatever, I find it difficult to distinguish) will come up with one "too funny to resist" at a party and deliver it at me and then step back with that "Oh, shit!" expression. I slowly swivel, with the Spock eyebrow. The funny part: his spouse will drop her jaw and widen her eyes. She so knows his gammatude and knows fear. I still have to deliver the devastating comeback, but it's hard to keep from laughing.

Honor is an innate concept that men know instinctively, but it's not taught nowadays. It's why "cuck" is effective.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 9:12 PM  

@62. Bz

"We have not been paying attention for the last 30 years. Seriously. We were too engrossed in working the slide rule to pay much attention to this rhetoric stuff. Didn't even much know the difference."

So maybe you built it up (except you didn't build that, somebody else did) but now the time has come for the SJWs to ... slide in ... and take over. Get out of the way, racist old man. Where's the cash register? And make me some coffee before I have you fired. OMG, latte you idiot!

Response #D: If you were qualified to take it over you already would have. But there aren't too many sociology majors that understand how to wrench on a Diesel engine or design a spacecraft, are there? Aren't you grateful to them? And where do these racist and ageist charges come from?

R.#D Grade: B.

Response #R: How would you know? You don't even know which end of a bolt the nut goes on. That wasn't in the coloring books you studied for your degree in communications. Can you even spell "bolt"?
You don't need another latte, babe, not until you spend a few years at the gym.
Cash register? Sounds like we gots ourselves yet another greedy SJW.

R.#R Grade: C-. Recommend further practice.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 9:13 PM  

@59 Forrest Bishop
@53.
SJWAL shined a big light on rhetoric. But reading about it is like reading the ingredients of an asparin. You have to take the medicine to really see how it's useful. Simply reading about it won't lock it into your mind. So begin practicing rhetoric here and there, and as you practice, you'll get experience where it is effective and where it isn't.

(My inner aspie says there is only one ingredient in aspirin, and only one "a" too. And did you notice aspie...aspirin? Hmm.)

Yes, and it does not come naturally. There's occasional practice on this VP blog- and in the comments to the Breitbart Tech article- but Twitter seems to be a better venue. Rhetoric is a form of lying, like advertising, only it's lying back to a liar. I expect SJWAL is going to be joined by How To manuals from various authors.
----

I don't really think of rhetoric as lying. It's more to me like semi changing the subject. I've been practicing a lot of rhetoric today at breitbart.

For instance, in this one about
Nora Dunn accusing Trump followers of being ungodly morons and Carson is a creepazoid.

My rhetoric is things like "for all you people wondering why SNL lost the funny after Belushi, Murray, etc, you're looking at her".

And some fatso was on there trying to make a point, and I put something like "Step away from the internet. This is not a hotdog eating contest. You have no chance of winning here."

What I am thinking is, how many times were you making some serious points and then they blindside you with something that seems totally unrelated, and it throws your topic out of whack? That's what I am trying to learn how to do with rhetoric.
I post in the comments as "thiscantbehappening", if anybody cares to join in the fun.

Or take this one where
John Leguizamo is crying about Trump being on SNL.

The rhetoric is things like
John L: "If you Mean people watch SNL with Trump I'm going to cry! I'm going to cry now at even the thought of it! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

"Oh I'm sure our boy Johnny Legume is being paid handsomely in Cuban cigars to make a douche of himself."

So it's not really lies, but more of changing the subject to the person making the statements. If that makes sense :P I know it's not logical!

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 9:18 PM  

@66. Groot November 05, 2015 9:01 PM

@41. Forrest Bishop:
"Now we've learned not to bring a slide rule to a gunfight."

Nice.

It's stolen property, one of VD's zingers of the third kind, the ones that stick and sting.

"Bringing dialectic to a rhetorical argument is like bring a slide rule to a gunfight" - Vox Day

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 9:26 PM  

@61 Danby
A proper rhetorical attack hits the opponent where Xe is vulnerable.Where they are vulnerable is in things like body image, mental illness, insecurity, justified feelings of worthlessness, etc. hit them there. It always amuses me when Vox gets in a twitter argument, and he makes his point and then calls his opponent fat. You'd think such a stupid non-sequitur would be dismissed with a "WTF dude?". I know it would if somebody did that to me. Instead, most of them fly off into a rage or spend days tweeting about it. Such a laughably gratuitous response should be dismissible out of hand, but because it's where they're vulnerable, where it hurts their feelings, it's an incredibly effective attack.
----

Good observations. I see him do that and think "WTH"? but then when they freak out for days, i want to give VD a high five.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 9:29 PM  

@66 Groot

My three favorite rhetorical devices: humor, fear, and honor.
---

I'm still working on cantrips here. I'm pretty much only working on humor, with a sprinkle of honor thrown in for Cucks.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 05, 2015 9:34 PM  

Huh, in reading Raymond's piece on kafkatrapping (link above), I stumbled over a pretty good explanation for cuckservatives:

"The aim of the kafkatrap is to produce a kind of free-floating guilt in the subject, a conviction of sinfulness that can be manipulated by the operator to make the subject say and do things that are convenient to the operator’s personal, political, or religious goals. Ideally, the subject will then internalize these demands, and then become complicit in the kafkatrapping of others."

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 9:35 PM  

Sticking back to the Tech aspect, once I was in a kind of tech demonstration meeting. The main guy presenting was an Indian (dot). He gave a pretty thorough demo over an hour, with coding examples, and some other insights.

At the end, he asks "Are there any questions?".

This one black female raises her hand, and he says "Yes".

She says, "You don't like me, do you?"

I had to laugh, because WTH?

And he was up there
"What does liking you have to do with my demonstration"
"It's not a matter of like or not like"

and every time he would say something, she would just reiterate "Why do I get a strong feeling you just dont like me"

So she used rhetoric to rock the dudes presentation and have him perplexed for a couple days.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 10:30 PM  

@73. Were-Puppy
Sticking back to the Tech aspect...

That reminds me of the "But You're a Girl" Adria Richards story. She was able to get two men fired in what became know as Donglegate. This was just before #gamergate took off, iirc.

I met her at a tech con a year or two before Donglegate and took an instant dislike. My initial impression was that she's an incompetent poseur SJW (didn't have that term at the time, though), i.e. trouble.
I see she's right back at it after laying low for awhile: "A few weeks ago, I gave a talk at the 2015 Lesbians Who Tech Summit in San Francisco on how tech companies...

"[excerpted] Highlights from the talk include:

" Landing top quality tech talent is much harder than simply posting a job on the Internet
Pay equity for all people at tech companies
We all carry bias into the workplace and it affects our decisions
Pay inequality is exacerbated when intersectional traits are compared
Why it’s important to offer developer focused content on your blog
Have open source projects tied to your company product
Sponsoring gender focused tech events does not ensure a transfer of trust
Job descriptions should not look like a “boyfriend list”
Consider collaborative vs competitive terms in job descriptions
False equivalent that women developers are all be new to tech
Reciprocal mentoring is a value focused perk for developers
Promote from within by identifying staff in non-technical roles for potential and aptitude
All genders find company values to be highly important
Health benefits for everyone: all genders, transgender employees and same sex partners
Consider gender neutral job perks: offer training to level up and conference budgets"

Translation: Inequality gender value focused transfer of trust is all be new and stuff to level up intersectional exacerbated traits in mentoring non-technical tech sex potential. Is that clear?

Blogger The Other Robot November 05, 2015 10:46 PM  

Reciprocal mentoring is a value focused perk for developers

WTF? Reciprocal mentoring? You can't figure it out as you go?

Promote from within by identifying staff in non-technical roles for potential and aptitude

I can really see the non-technical staff picking this stuff up. NOT.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 10:56 PM  

74. Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 10:30 PM
@73. Were-Puppy
Sticking back to the Tech aspect...

That reminds me of the "But You're a Girl" Adria Richards story. She was able to get two men fired in what became know as Donglegate. This was just before #gamergate took off, iirc.
---

In this case, she got let go, not the guy. I didn't know about all this SJW stuff back then. I am generally very friendly with co workers, and might have been one of the few was friendly with her. And she was always wanting me to help her do her work, which I never had time for. We had another Thai girl on the team that did like 3x as much work as this girl did.

So eventually our manager figured she wasn't pulling her weight and let her go.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 10:56 PM  

@75. The Other Robot

False equivalent that women developers are all be new to tech are be my favorite.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 11:05 PM  

@76. Were-Puppy
I am generally very friendly with co workers, and might have been one of the few was friendly with her.

Ok, understandable, but you had an extra motivation to get along. I met her in a different environment, the last Bill (?) Con in Seattle, where the game is to size people up quickly. For some reason, the more I think about it, the worse the evaluation, in general, but not always. And sometimes the first-millisecond evals are dead on.

I did another instant eval on a stranger from 200' feet away, where he was waiting to cross the street to the Foresight con. I didn't like him at 200', nor at 10', nor at the con, nor later when I learned he embezzled $60K.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 05, 2015 11:11 PM  

"[excerpted] Highlights from the talk include:

" Landing top quality tech talent is much harder than simply posting a job on the Internet"

If she means that there are a lot of resumes where people flat out lie, yeah. But she probably means, how can i find a qualified person who is also an SJW. yeah, that's going to be hard.

"Pay equity for all people at tech companies"
We should be paid as much as the over worked people who are doing our jobs as well as theirs.

"We all carry bias into the workplace and it affects our decisions"
I'm and SJW and need to ability to accuse everyone else of bias

"Pay inequality is exacerbated when intersectional traits are compared"
I spend all my time worrying about being both black and a lesbian instead of the job at hand. So I'm less useful than even a regular SJW.

"Why it’s important to offer developer focused content on your blog"
Got to keep up the appearance that I'm a developer. I'm sure my redneck male co worker won't mind me stealing his code and putting it on my blog.

"Have open source projects tied to your company product"
This way I can have instant SJW swarm backup when it's time to strike.

"Sponsoring gender focused tech events does not ensure a transfer of trust"
I can't even get 10% of the white guys to show up at my events. Only when forced by HR.

"Job descriptions should not look like a “boyfriend list”
It's sexist because I'm a lesbian anyway.

"Consider collaborative vs competitive terms in job descriptions"
I can't possibly compete on an even floor with these guys, so instead I'll make it look like I'm super useful by having spent all my career supposedly helping the ones doing all the work!

"False equivalent that women developers are all be new to tech"
I don't even know what this means, but it sounds impressive !

"Reciprocal mentoring is a value focused perk for developers"
And after one of them is mentoring me I can go to HR 10 times a day and complain about a million things until something sticks and I can get his ass fired.

"Promote from within by identifying staff in non-technical roles for potential and aptitude"
Because all my pals in non-technical roles will be the programmers after I get them all canned for being sexist, racist, homophobic whiteys.

"All genders find company values to be highly important"
Especially when I can identify as any gender I want

"Health benefits for everyone: all genders, transgender employees and same sex partners"
Oh, except for those racist sexist homophobic heterosexual couples shacking up. The hell with them.

"Consider gender neutral job perks: offer training to level up and conference budgets"
We need lots of conferences because all the activity implies that I am actually doing something and busy. And I need to send out my bat signals to find like minded swarm members in case I feel like stirring up some shit while i'm there.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 05, 2015 11:27 PM  

@79. Were-Puppy

Yah well, the good news is that she still appears to be jobless. Check out the "But You're a Girl" link for the bat signal resume-pitch. Please have a look at her 2015 Lesbo con video. See anything... odd? Anything worth conjuring up the Stevil for?

Blogger Were-Puppy November 06, 2015 10:58 AM  

@78 Forrest Bishop

I did another instant eval on a stranger from 200' feet away, where he was waiting to cross the street to the Foresight con. I didn't like him at 200', nor at 10', nor at the con, nor later when I learned he embezzled $60K.
---

That's some impressive observation skills.

I usually scan for physical threats, but nothing on that level.

Completely OT, but are you aware of the concept of negative space?

Blogger Sevron November 06, 2015 11:08 AM  

Please don't make us watch the video Forest Bishop- did she dye her hair candy-colored? A new set of problem glasses?

Blogger Were-Puppy November 06, 2015 11:09 AM  

@80 Forrest Bishop
@79. Were-Puppy

Yah well, the good news is that she still appears to be jobless. Check out the "But You're a Girl" link for the bat signal resume-pitch. Please have a look at her 2015 Lesbo con video. See anything... odd? Anything worth conjuring up the Stevil for?

----

I watched the link, it was an eye glazing performance.

Toward the end she started showing things like news articles where SJWs had gone after tech guys saying it makes you company look bad. Then she quickly flipped past something about Tranny benefits.

The wierdest, oddest thing I noticed was this thing she was wearing.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 06, 2015 11:11 AM  

@81. Were-Puppy

Completely OT, but are you aware of the concept of negative space?

OT is legal on a dead thread. Don't know from negative space outside of art.

There is the rumor of the "Intuit", a person who can evaluate a stranger at a seemingly psychic or telepathic level. The skill is probably related to Hans the Horse. There's a story about a team of two men who do this for corporate clients. They sit in on board meetings and such, hired by one of the members, to whom they give their debrief: "The VP is seeing your wife, the CFO is embezzling, and your CTO is about to jump ship with the IP". I think the stories are true.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 06, 2015 11:15 AM  

83. Were-Puppy

I watched the link, it was an eye glazing performance.

Toward the end she started showing things like news articles where SJWs had gone after tech guys saying it makes you company look bad. Then she quickly flipped past something about Tranny benefits.

The wierdest, oddest thing I noticed was this thing she was wearing.


Yeah, that's it. Tango foxtrot?

Blogger Sevron November 06, 2015 1:41 PM  

Ok I went and watched a bit of the video- what's odd about her clothes? Jeans, a red shirt if some sort, and a sweater. Looked lie standard fare to me, what did I miss?

Blogger Were-Puppy November 06, 2015 1:48 PM  

@84 Forrest Bishop
@81. Were-Puppy

Completely OT, but are you aware of the concept of negative space?

OT is legal on a dead thread. Don't know from negative space outside of art.
---

I was wondering because you have a really good observation skill. Dead space is a concept I learned from one of my sneaky martial arts trainers. It's kind of an ability to hide in the open.

For instance, if you are going to walk through a doorway, the deadspace would be inside the doorway to the right or left against the entry wall.

The normal person will be focused on walking in the door and going on their way, without paying much attention to that dead space.

The best deadspace is above someone, as most people rarely look up.

Probably not the best example, but it's a way of hiding in plain sight by playing off of the normal persons habits and field of vision.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 06, 2015 1:53 PM  

@85 Forrest Bishop
83. Were-Puppy

I watched the link, it was an eye glazing performance.

Toward the end she started showing things like news articles where SJWs had gone after tech guys saying it makes you company look bad. Then she quickly flipped past something about Tranny benefits.

The wierdest, oddest thing I noticed was this thing she was wearing.

Yeah, that's it. Tango foxtrot?
---

I don't know the code, or the significance of the clothes.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 06, 2015 1:55 PM  

@86

Maybe it's because they are in SF. But usually when I've been to any presentations with a female presenting, they will at least be wearing Hillary style pant suits, or dressing up way more than the presenter here.

Anonymous Forrest Bishop November 06, 2015 2:27 PM  

@86. Sevron
Ok I went and watched a bit of the video- what's odd about her clothes? Jeans, a red shirt if some sort, and a sweater. Looked lie standard fare to me, what did I miss?

Maybe it's just my fabulous observational skills. Coulda swore I saw some sort of interdimensional shape shifting lizard bag lady rummaging around in there.


@88. Were-Puppy
Toward the end she started showing things like news articles where SJWs had gone after tech guys saying it makes you company look bad.

tl;dr At least here she is an expert. I'll bet the word "donglegate" wasn't used.

Tango foxtrot, goes well with whiskey.

Blogger MidKnight (#138) November 06, 2015 3:32 PM  

@Were-puppy

Never heard the term, but can certify that people rarely, if ever, look up

One day, bored on watch in an engine room, I climbed onto a beaker cabinet on my watch station, in plain view, when the watch officer went on his rounds. In plain sight, but several feet above head level.

The guy spent ten minutes looking for me and calling on the radio (I'd turned mine down but was responding) before I climbed down while his back was turned to hand over my logs.

I know, I know, but spend 40 days underwater and things like dumping buckets of water into the next level to soak the watchstander there get entertaining.

One guy combined both to climb onto a light stanchion with a bucket of water. Went completely unnoticed until the victim got doused.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 06, 2015 3:43 PM  

Yeah, it was shocking to me when I first learned about negative space.

First learned about it as a way to sneak up on a home invader. For instance, if an invader is in your house, why get into his view and blast him when you can take him down without the invader even knowing you are there.

It's really fun if you have someone that you can practice "sneaking up on" and they can practice on you.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 06, 2015 3:45 PM  

@91 MidKnight (#138)
@Were-puppy

Never heard the term, but can certify that people rarely, if ever, look up

One day, bored on watch in an engine room, I climbed onto a beaker cabinet on my watch station, in plain view, when the watch officer went on his rounds. In plain sight, but several feet above head level.
---

My first reaction in that type situation is "Huh? is this actually working? LOL" and keeping quite from chuckling is a serious danger.

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