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Tuesday, November 24, 2015

WWIII: the second shot

The Paris attacks was the first shot being fired. The downing of a Russian SU-24 by NATO is the second. I have no doubt that the USA will frantically protest that Turkey, not NATO, is responsible, but when Putin responds, the USA will be treaty-bound to defend Turkey. This is why the Founding Fathers warned against "entangling alliances", as they tend to outsource one's diplomatic and wartime decision-making at the very worst possible times.
A Russian Su-24 fighter has been shot down in Syria, Russian Defense Ministry said, adding the plane hadn’t violated Turkish airspace and was at an altitude of 6,000 meters.
If you haven't read much about the leadup to past world wars, what you should understand is that they never look like anything out of the ordinary at first. However, unlike the previous world wars, this looks like one that will genuinely span the globe, as the jihadists have been permitted to infiltrate every country and nation, from China to Iceland, while China is poised to not only invade Taiwan, but claim the entire South China Sea and spread out across Africa.

About the only place we can expect to escape the global conflict is South America, as La Raza Cósmica is more vicious and more capable than the mujahideen while simultaneously being devoid of any semblance of white guilt or mercy. The jihadists wouldn't last five minutes against the cartels.

As Nicolas Taleb has observed, the one place the immigrants have failed to find any footing in Italy is where the mafias rule.

This doesn't mean that Russia and the USA are going to start shooting at each other immediately, it merely means that another domino has fallen.

UPDATE: All right, this may be more than just another domino falling. I doubt that Putin will fail to respond to this sort of behavior by the Turks:
Turkmen forces in Syria shot dead the two pilots of a Russian jet downed by Turkish warplanes near the border with Turkey on Tuesday as they descended with parachutes, a deputy commander of a Turkmen brigade told reporters.

"Both of the pilots were retrieved dead. Our comrades opened fire into the air and they died in the air," Alpaslan Celik, a deputy commander in a Syrian Turkmen brigade said near the Syrian village of Yamadi as he held what he said was a piece of a pilot's parachute. 
UPDATE II: The news just keeps getting worse. It looks like we know who is supporting ISIS and who is not.
Russian helicopter SHOT DOWN while searching for downed jet
UPDATE III: Putin's response: "A stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorism."
    “The loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way.”

    “Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey.”

    “Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey.”

    “Today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations ... Instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours.”

    “Do they want to make Nato serve ISIS? ... We hope that the international community will find the strength to come together and fight against the common evil.”

UPDATE IV: Yeah, I'll bet Erdogan called an emergency meeting.
Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has called an emergency security meeting involving his top generals, heads of intelligence, Prime Minister Davutoğlu and other senior ministers.

Labels:

299 Comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 299 of 299
Blogger Nate November 24, 2015 1:59 PM  

"Classic jingoism."

its an insult to jingoism to associate it with such advanced window lickery

Blogger The Other Robot November 24, 2015 1:59 PM  

Plus any objective analysis clarly show the Russians looping several times through Turkish airspace.

So, in the 17 seconds the Turks claim the Russians violated their airspace they did it several times.

OK.

Anonymous DeepThought November 24, 2015 2:00 PM  

Radar Image. My bad on not linking this but with people referencing Drudge, I figured many of you guys had seen this image. But I stand on my point. Russia is in clear violation of Turkish airspace. Russian arrogance always bites Russians in the ass. They over estimate their military superiority over the US and it's allies.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/turkish-military-release-radar-image-tracking-russian-fighter-jet-over-turkish-territory-before-attack-20151124-gl751g.html

Blogger Nate November 24, 2015 2:04 PM  

And russia has also released evidence that they were not.

Tell us DeepThought... exactly what is it that makes you side with the goat humping muslims?

Blogger maniacprovost November 24, 2015 2:05 PM  

If Turkey actually shot down the pilots while they were parachuting, that's halfway between an act of war and a war crime.

Logically, they must be more concerned with IS's opinion than Russia's.

Either they are worried about ISIT, or they are stepping up the global jihad.

Blogger The Other Robot November 24, 2015 2:06 PM  

exactly what is it that makes you side with the goat humping muslims?

Oh come on Nate! Dignify them with capitals!

Blogger Student in Blue November 24, 2015 2:08 PM  

@maniacprovost

Turkmen != Turkey

Blogger Rusty Fife November 24, 2015 2:10 PM  

@203 DeepThought

[b]They over estimate their military superiority over the US and it's allies.[/b]

There you go, comparing a 2G war army against a minimum 3G war opponent. The Russians are an Asian army; not Western.

It isn't about physical superiority; only willpower.

Blogger The Other Robot November 24, 2015 2:15 PM  

Of course, the Russians were stupid for not supplying fighter cover for their bombers.

I suspect they won't do that again.

Blogger maniacprovost November 24, 2015 2:22 PM  

I got that, but I missed the part where rebels got them. I think I foolishly assumed that the plane was over Turkish airspace and therefore the pilots would land in Turkey.

Anonymous friendo November 24, 2015 2:22 PM  

Does anyone have an idea whether the shooting down of the Su-24, followed by the shooting down of a rescue helicopter (Mi-8), constitutes an actual feat of arms for Turkey and the rebels?

These are 60s Soviet designs, but I'm guessing Russia must have upgraded them somehow. I'm also guessing that at least the Su-24 would have had some missile protection capability. So, I don't know how easy it is to shoot it down for a country like Turkey. Ultimately, my question is whether Russia even has the theoretical capability (short of nukes) to do a tit-for-tat with Turkey.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 24, 2015 2:24 PM  

@204. Nate

Do you have a link to the Russian's radar flight path?

Anonymous DT November 24, 2015 2:29 PM  

@181 You know they actually got busted for that in pensacola. They had video of still wind and the things just spinning like a top. supposedly they were powering street lights....

That's typical for green libtards. Reality must bend to the narrative after all.

Blogger kmbr November 24, 2015 2:30 PM  

NATO is a fiction. It has not existed in any real sense for 25 years. It's a wealth transfer scheme forcing (once) wealthy Americans to pay trillions for Euro defense so they can instead invest in building a super welfare state.

Anonymous redsash November 24, 2015 2:31 PM  

Davenport, you genetic idiot. The Russian plane wreckage is 4km inside Syrian border. Both pilots ejected and were killed while parachuting by Turkish gunfire from inside Syria. The Turks have even bragged about this. A Russian search helicopter was given permission by the Turks to search for the pilots, and the damn Turks shot the copter down .

The Turks may now receive the justice that has awaited them since they killed so many Armenian Christians, sins accumulating since Constantinople.

Vladimir, you have God's permission to reclaim Christian lands. Go Nuclear. H bomb for Ankara, neutron bomb for Istanbul. Both sides of the Dardenalles and the Turk southern border should be radioactive. Tell the West to stfu or London, NY, & DC will be next.



Blogger Student in Blue November 24, 2015 2:34 PM  

@redsash

Turkmen != Turkey

Anonymous Kreator November 24, 2015 2:35 PM  

I so would wish our side (Greece) would do the same with the dozens of Turkish air space violations that happens on OUR air space.

Sigh...Well, I guess I can always hope people take GD out of prison to liberate Greece.

Blogger Curtis November 24, 2015 2:36 PM  

NATO proxies shooting at Russian pilots:

https://youtu.be/g0dYA3PO7Nw

NATO proxies playing with dead Russian pilot:

https://youtu.be/Ydw14n8OYdI

NATO proxies TOW missile strike on Russian helo after emergency landing:

https://youtu.be/2vxxQOTCN18

Spetsnaz playing with NATO proxies:

No video available. But I am sure they can find good use with young tree saplings.

Blogger The Other Robot November 24, 2015 2:37 PM  

It would be interesting to know how far away the F16 was when it fired.

I suspect that the missile(s) needed 5-10 seconds to hit the Su-24.

That says that the decision to kill was made before the planes hit Turkish airspace.

This looks like a deliberate attempt to bloody the Russians.

That is certainly Turkey's prerogative, but are they ready for the consequences?

The longer Russia waits to retaliate the harder it will be.

Blogger The Other Robot November 24, 2015 2:41 PM  

He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.

Of course, the Russians are also playing word games here, since 4km is likely only around 30 seconds travel time.

However, I think the Russians are on firmer ground than the Turks.

Blogger Red Jack November 24, 2015 2:41 PM  

@133
https://books.google.com/books?id=nw-rR_Skb-cC&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=Apocalypse+of+Pseudo-Methodius&source=bl&ots=mUexQh43if&sig=mhPhNtgGoEsw3_WC-hhOf3n73qY&hl=en&ei=bmYkTpzuHcHFsQL_v5y2Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q=Apocalypse%20of%20Pseudo-Methodius&f=false

Sorry for the bad format. It took me years to find this book in hard copy.

Anonymous DT November 24, 2015 2:44 PM  

@203 I'll pose the same question to you that I posed to Davenport:

Should a nation shoot down another nation's fighter for an airspace violation when said fighter has already left and made no aggressive moves during the violation?

Unless I'm mistaken about the location, we're talking about an airspace violation across a narrow finger of <2 miles. This indicates a minute or less of flight time. This is worth killing two pilots and risking war?

Blogger Were-Puppy November 24, 2015 2:45 PM  

@219 The Other Robot
This looks like a deliberate attempt to bloody the Russians.

That is certainly Turkey's prerogative, but are they ready for the consequences?

The longer Russia waits to retaliate the harder it will be.
---

Keeping in mind that the Russian jet was blown up only a few weeks ago, and now this happens.

From some of Putins remarks, he is linking Turkey to ISIS. That's probably going to go over pretty good in Russia, since they were already angry about the earlier jet being bombed.

From what I understand, Turkey shoots down the Russian plane, which may or may not have been in Turkish air space.

Then some Syrian Turkmen kills the pilots as they parachute to the ground.

Then some Syrian Turkmen blows up the Russian search and rescue helicopter.

This is all tangled up and messy.

Blogger Danby November 24, 2015 2:50 PM  

Why does everyone seem to assume that the Turks were doing this on their own initiative?

Blogger The Other Robot November 24, 2015 2:52 PM  

The Russians have released their own map flight path.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 24, 2015 2:57 PM  

I found the flight path according to the Russians:

http://lifenews.ru/news/171620

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 24, 2015 3:01 PM  

@225. Thanks. We were close in time.

This is Turkey's version:

https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG/status/669098577524822016/photo/1

Anonymous Frank Brady November 24, 2015 3:03 PM  

ISIS/ISIL was created to provide an excuse for NATO to invade Syria. For the neoconservative lunatics who run U.S. "foreign policy", the road to Moscow has always (at least since 2000) run from Damascus through Tehran. Read "Rebuilding America's Defenses", a white paper that provides a description of the motivation behind this morning's events.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 24, 2015 3:07 PM  

Turkey's version does not make sense to me. Is there supposed to have been a 2nd Russian aircraft?

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 24, 2015 3:10 PM  

According to this, estimated time in Turkey's airspace, assuming that Turkey's account is correct is 9 to 18 secs.

https://twitter.com/pupyrkin/status/669180074583805952

Blogger The Other Robot November 24, 2015 3:15 PM  

For the neoconservative lunatics who run U.S. "foreign policy", the road to Moscow has always (at least since 2000) run from Damascus through Tehran.

I think it is going to be too cold in Russia at the moment for warm-weather friends.

Blogger Culture War Draftee November 24, 2015 3:16 PM  

The Turkmen are a Turkic tribe in Syria (not "Turks" in the sense of Turkish citizens, but ethnically related) and their anti-Assad militia is armed and backed by the Turkish govt. The Russians have hit the Turkmen rebels with air strikes. The Turks got a window to shoot back on behalf of their clients.

It's one thing for the proxies to engage each other, or even to engage a major power, but when the major power engages an ally (Turkey is not a proxy, but a treaty-bound NATO ally) of another major power, things are getting very risky.

It's like '14-'15 is a prolonged call back to 1853.

Blogger Curtis November 24, 2015 3:22 PM  

Who is ISIS:

https://youtu.be/Z1aDciHCejA

https://youtu.be/o6kdi1UXxhY

https://youtu.be/uzfZdrdvYII

https://youtu.be/vkxFT_hJCdQ

https://youtu.be/gwLufaTK29s

https://youtu.be/SXS3vW47mOE

And my favorite:

https://youtu.be/pIDUh5qV--4

And more ISIS than you can shake a stick at:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/search?q=ISIS&x=14&y=15

Anonymous BigGaySteve November 24, 2015 3:25 PM  

63 Then disband NATO, they did not shoot the jet down for the hell of it,

Unlike the US, Russia is killing Turk moslems fighting with IS IS.

Stephen Davenport "Every time you comment my opinion of you falls further" What you want a cookie or something?

I am probably too of for you to be offering cookies to, I have body hair.

Yipes, I hope they don't invade Were-Puppy air space until I can escape the Atlanta area.

What is any sane person doing in Atlanta?

190 It is clear Russia is attacking government opposition forces and not just ISIS.

Both the boston marathon brothers and the Oregon college shooter were on Russia's naughty moslem list, the Russians are much more honest about moslems than the CUCKS in US govt.

Tell us DeepThought... exactly what is it that makes you side with the goat humping muslims?

Same reason as Anderson Cooper & Davenport, moslems allow Bacha Bazi.

Blogger Curtis November 24, 2015 3:26 PM  

But of course, no one is paying attention to NATO's ongoing massive military exercises in Eastern Europe on Russia's Western border. A poke in the eye with a "We dare you."

Containment.

Blogger haus frau November 24, 2015 3:29 PM  

@72 I was listening to Rush Limbaugh the other day and he was explaining that Iran and Assad were protecting ISIS from being irradiated by the US in order to sew discord among the enemy Suni factions and that the US needed to stand with its ally Saudi Arabia to help them defeat ISIS. ...or something like that. It was a bizarre black is white/white is black twist on the real nature of the situation. I have no doubt the propaganda outlets can sell this war to a substantial portion of the American public, at least long enough to get things started.

Anonymous Anonymous November 24, 2015 3:38 PM  

It is an observable truism that all too often a nation's generals are busy preparing for fighting the last war, but it would be a mistake to limit that observation to merely the military sphere. Like those past-burdened flag officers, civilian political leaders are also all to often conducting foreign policy on the same basis.

When the Soviet Union died its quiet and unusual death, NATO should have declared victory and disbanded. Instead, it loudly proclaimed its continuing relevance and pushed for expansion until it bloody well became relevant again, whether or not anyone or anything else wanted it.

And while this military alliance for the last war continues on, the current jihadi war puts two parties who should be allies--the Western and Orthodox Civilizations--in the absurd position of facing a very real danger of coming to blows on behalf of a nation whose people shout Islamist supremacist slogans during what was planned to be a moment of silence for the dead of Paris.

Such a misalignment of political architecture with objective reality cannot stand for long.

Which, come to think of it, some of the former KGB officer's friends could attest to, first hand.

Anonymous Big Bill November 24, 2015 3:41 PM  

@200: An "example" of Russian "arrogance" that has caused "much suffering"?

What are you talking about?

The Russians got careless and two Russian pilots got their tits in a ringer.

I don't expect Putin is going to say or do much about it.

Nor should he.

Enough with the hyperventilating. Stuff happens.

Anonymous Frank Brady November 24, 2015 3:48 PM  

For a clear-eyed and factual exposition of how the world reached this place, see https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/11/david-stockman/blowback-3/.

David Stockman has managed to condense a lot of important background into one piece that has apparently largely disappeared down the memory hole.

Anonymous Shnookums November 24, 2015 3:57 PM  

I dunno if anybody else has mentioned this, but isn't there a possibility that this event was engineered by the Russians?

They've been making incremental challenges to American power for years, and have lately been nibbling at the edges of NATO countries. I read somewhere (I think maybe at 20committee.com) that the intention was to provoke a small war with a NATO member that the rest of NATO wouldn't want to fight, thus undermining the "an attack on one is an attack on all" principle at the heart of NATO. If they can show that the US won't support its less important NATO members then that gives them important leverage when trying to pressure Estonia, Poland, etc into rejoining the Russian sphere of influence.

Or, maybe, this is totally wrong. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. Either way I'm worried.

Anonymous Anonymous November 24, 2015 3:58 PM  

NATO didn't need to invade Libya to take it out of the way of Islam. What people call neo conservative warmongers, haven't been running US policy since at least 2006. Their intel is sadly out of date on American occupation of Iraq and the post Hussein regime 2009+ in the US.

As for Turkey, they were the supposed route that Hussein was supplying arms to AQ in Libya and Islamic State in Syria with, along with Qatar as another route. Those anti air launchers are American supplied, through the Turkish or Qatar pipeline. They're still getting ammo for them as well.

"Obviously not every citizen agrees with their leader. That's a given, thus irrelevant as an objection."
@152 Student in Blue
The idea that Westerners need leaders to fight Islam is what is broken in a 4th gen fight.

The idea that people can setup citizen groups, like VoxDay's alliance against Tor, in order to create an Ultra Right reaction force that isn't based on who has the most votes, would probably be more effective against Islamic Jihad than trying to micromanage a nation state's foreign policy. It's not like you can win a war against Islam just by yourself, so when the US is taking the super majority of the load, an individual would have been free to operate outside that constraint.

Many people only woke up due to the SJWs breathing on their neck, however. They never got that chance in time to do much.

I also wouldn't go by any Dear Leader's stated goals. Since Hussein's stated goal is to "Protect America" and "fight Islamic State" in Syria.

@168

That's a good point about Serbia, since Clinton needed some way to show that he was tough. In US history, the Democrats are our war party. They just go to war over anything and everything, even if they said 2 years ago that they would absolutely not go to war in Europe.

They had absolute zombie obedience even in the last century. American foreign policy is almost always a result of Democrats, or Republicans following along as the loyal opposition to Democrats. When Nixon tried to end the Vietnam war, started by Johnson Welfare killing black families, they found all kinds of ways to topple Nixon.

Blogger Cataline Sergius November 24, 2015 3:59 PM  

First thing's first. Turkey is NOT a nuclear power. They are a nuclear sharing power. Big difference. Erdoğan can't fire any on his own.

Second. Putin will have to escalate more than I was expecting because of the pilot being killed and then the shooting down of the Russian search team chopper.

Third. President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is very unpopular with the Turkish military. That one is quite complicated. But the Turkish military may view this as an ideal time to give Erdoğan and his government the shove.

A 3GW, is as always a strategic problem for Russia. The can't support an invasion across the Black Sea. From the NW the Russians would have to come around, through Ukraine, Bulgaria and Romania. From the NE Russia would have to invade through mountains and valleys of Georgia.

The big question mark remains NATO. And NATO is a paper tiger without Obama. Let's face it, Putin has President Hippy's number and it's a small number.

Cataline's prime projection: Naval clash in the Black Sea. If it goes badly against the Turks look for President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan ouster. All hail Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu.

Anonymous Anonymous November 24, 2015 4:06 PM  

"I dunno if anybody else has mentioned this, but isn't there a possibility that this event was engineered by the Russians?"

Shnookums

That's always a possible scenario, but the Russians tend to be too K selected to make these kinds of sacrifices. If Hussein were in charge (Libya, Benghazi, trading Taliban for American traitors, Waco 2, Ft Hood 1/2) or some person like John Scalzi, they could easily sacrifice a few pawns.

For Russia, their engineered operations tend to look like the invasion of Georgia. The propaganda is already cooked in their favor, so to speak. Here in Syria, the one that created the situation wasn't Russia, but Hussein Obola of the 2 American term fame. The Left's God King and Messiah. His word is the Law to the zombies, just as Mohammed's word is the Law to Muslims.

"They've been making incremental challenges to American power for years, and have lately been nibbling at the edges of NATO countries. "

If you're referring to Ukraine, I heard George Soros was the money man behind that one there.

Anonymous Shnookums November 24, 2015 4:11 PM  

ymarsakar

Ukraine and various other countries - I've seen a good few news stories about Russian ships popping up in Swedish waters and the like.

Anonymous Frank Brady November 24, 2015 4:18 PM  

Some people apparently haven't noticed that the Soviet Union is no more.

Please list the countries that Russia has invaded, occupied, or violently "regime changed" since 1991. Now do the same for the United States.

Notice anything?

Anonymous Train November 24, 2015 4:43 PM  

Hmm, Russia is about to lay the smack-down. Is it time to start panicking? Is it time to crack each others' heads open and feast on the gooey, juicy goodness inside? Yes, I do believe it is.

Blogger Culture War Draftee November 24, 2015 4:46 PM  

@245 There's Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine (E Ukraine and Crimea), Transdnistria, and Syria. The first lot are all successful efforts to create "frozen conflicts" and thus prevent the targeted region from joining NATO. It's a hard-ball strategy, but consistent and achievable. In the long run, it may well backfire, but my crystal ball is at the cleaners so who can say. Syria, that's a different ball of wax.

For the USA, I'm sorry to say consistent and achievable are pretty much anathema to our assorted leaders.

Blogger Culture War Draftee November 24, 2015 4:48 PM  

@myself, Sorry Chechnya was about suppressing Islamic terrorism and re-incorporating a lost province. High on the logical & achievable scale, IMO.

Blogger Dalrock November 24, 2015 4:51 PM  

The Other Robot
It would be interesting to know how far away the F16 was when it fired.

I suspect that the missile(s) needed 5-10 seconds to hit the Su-24.

That says that the decision to kill was made before the planes hit Turkish airspace.


Given the timings involved it would be hard to imagine that one or both of the following is not true:

1) The missile was launched while the Russian jet was over Syrian airspace (just before the incursion).
2) The missile struck the Russian jet over Syrian airspace (the Turks fired a missile into Syrian airspace).

This is assuming the Russian jet did in fact violate Turkish airspace, which I tend to believe they did. All of this could well be a legal action by Turkey according to international law, but either 1 or 2 would seem to look very bad for Turkey from a public opinion perspective, especially since ethnic Turks then apparently shot the two pilots while still parachuting down. Just because you can shoot someone doesn't mean you should.

Blogger John Luzzi November 24, 2015 5:00 PM  

VD, your intro to this post was my lesson today to my World History Students (10th graders). It was apt because we have spent the last few weeks learning about the history of the Middle East.

Blogger John Luzzi November 24, 2015 5:00 PM  

VD, your intro to this post was my lesson today to my World History Students (10th graders). It was apt because we have spent the last few weeks learning about the history of the Middle East.

Blogger APL November 24, 2015 5:08 PM  

James Higham November 24, @ 06:42 : " It establishes some things clearly - Turkey is pro-ISIS, yet is under NATO's skirts for some bizarre reason, "

Turkey is a moslem state and would be happy to trigger a war between NATO and Russia.

Blogger Student in Blue November 24, 2015 5:08 PM  

@Train
Yes, I do believe it is.

Given the official response from Russia, they're not going to go in first, swinging. They're doing a good job making Turkey look like belligerents, and the US doesn't want to be the bad guy in this so I'm pretty sure they won't urge Turkey to war.

Basically they're playing the game where they're making each other look like scum if the line they just drew gets crossed by the other guy.

Blogger Bluntobj Winz November 24, 2015 5:15 PM  

What I think most interesting is that the "moderate rebels" that gunned the pilots and shot the hind with a TOW, and conveniently recorded and broadcast it on video for the world to see have now shown that they are no different from ISIS. Exposing themselves with a rousing allu ackbar might have been good for morale, but they significantly injured the moral position of the US and NATO. The US and NATO arm and supports islamic extremists against a lawful government, and uses them as a proxy against russia. Many countries in the world have taken note.

Blogger michael savell November 24, 2015 5:41 PM  

I suspect that the russians will bomb the hell out of the routes used to carry oil into Turkey and make them as useless as possible.

Blogger Rusty Fife November 24, 2015 5:46 PM  

@255 Michael Savell

Forget about transport routes. The oil wells themselves don't move and take 45days, at a minimum, to drill. If you don't want to wreck the well; a couple raids will prevent any of them from pumping without damaging the reservoir.

Blogger Azimus November 24, 2015 5:50 PM  

Events are unfolding in a way that it looks like NATO will launch a ground mission into Syria within the year, led by France, US, Turkey. Turkey has the ground forces, France has the moral high ground, and US has the air power. Maybe there'll be some bit-players like a battalion of unfortunate Danish infantry, some Poles, that kind of crap. Russia wasn't playing according to the script. There will be more incidents until they do. Assad will be gone in 2yrs, "Democracy" will take over, NATO will exercise suzerainty over the Democratic Republic of Syria.

Blogger TheRedSkull November 24, 2015 5:55 PM  

SJWs always double down.

Russians always punch back twice as hard.

This can only end one way.

Blogger TheRedSkull November 24, 2015 5:59 PM  

If the Turks thought the airspace violation was bad, what till they see what Putin violates next.

Blogger Phillip George November 24, 2015 6:14 PM  

incremental challenges to American power


the shills have doubled down, right here, right now. It was Osama bin Laden maybe? Or Assad with barrel bombs? or Colonel Gaddafi? or Saddam. but I know, the Putin regime has channeled aleister crowley to channel Saddam to hide WMD's in Russian air space incurring regime challengers challenged by the challenge of incursions and violations and airspace and no fly zones and diversity opponents.

Blogger maniacprovost November 24, 2015 6:15 PM  

Easier to shut down a pipeline than 1000 wells. Setting them on fire is simple, but more of a total war tactic than counterinsurgency or limited war.

Blogger Phillip George November 24, 2015 6:18 PM  

The train is fine shills. the train is fine.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis November 24, 2015 6:28 PM  

@253

Russia isn't going to do a damned thing and this situation doesn't make Turkey look any worse than it already did on the world scene. There is already open debate on the web stating that ISIS tolerates ISIS, and don't forget they have already used the Syrian war to launch their own attacks on the Kurds. The global community didn't do shit. On the same token, the last few years have seen the Russian violate the airspace of numerous countries in the last couple of years. Be it 17 seconds or more it doesn't matter, the moment you violate airspace you are now fair game. No one in the international community, i.e Europe, is going to give a shit that someone finally shot them down. But ultimately it isn't really about airspace, or NATO, it's about Turkey supporting her proxy in Syria. The Russians were engaging in a bombing campaign in the region that was oestensibly against ISISl, however, ISIS has little to no presence in the area. You know who does? The Turkmen rebels, who Syria has been supporting. Turkey was sending a message to Russia tantamount to saying quite fucking bombing the Turkemen rebels in Syria. The real wrinkle in this situation is that the Turkmen rebels killed the pilot after the fact, though that is the face of 4G war, that is the real kicker there.

Baring anything escalating because what the Turkmen did, I would not be surprised if you see Russia use this incident as impetus for greater co-operation between Russian forces and NATO forces in the region and come to a gentleman's agreement whereby the west stops trying to remove Assad and the Russians confine their operations to only confirmed ISIS targets. If that sounds strange, consider the following:

1. Geo-politicists are already talking about needing to come to an accommodation with the idea that we need to keep Assad in power if we want to keep ISIS in check. If policy makers are talking about it publicly then I would not be surprised if the decision has already been made privately.
2. The growing operational capability of ISIS in the west and their attacks in Europe and elsewhere in the world illustrating the real danger they pose to the world.
3. The rise of European nationalism. Nationalists aren't give to give two fucks who controls Syria and if keeping Assad in power helps prevent attacks in their country then they are going to at least not actively work against Assad.

Blogger Danby November 24, 2015 6:34 PM  

@263
I would not be surprised if you see Russia use this incident as impetus for greater co-operation between Russian forces and NATO forces in the region and come to a gentleman's agreement whereby the west stops trying to remove Assad and the Russians confine their operations to only confirmed ISIS targets.

I would be surprised to see that, because our side's ONLY objective in this war has been to remove Assad. We were shipping in munitions and arming insurgents before ISIS. We created ISIS either intentionally or unintentionally. Assad is to close to Putin and so must be destroyed.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis November 24, 2015 6:47 PM  

@264

Remember when Saddam was an ally before he was an enemy? When the west was arming the Syrian rebels at the outset of their war do you honestly think they considered that a) the civil war would last as long as it did, b) that ISIS would become so powerful as it has, c) that there would be millions of 'refugees' flooding into Europe and d) that Islamists would be gunning down hundreds of Frenchmen? Objectives change.

Blogger Rusty Fife November 24, 2015 7:02 PM  

@261 maniac provost

Looks like Syria 's pre-war production rate,was 27,000bbl/day. That's about 10-100 wells.

Anonymous Frank Brady November 24, 2015 7:05 PM  

@Culture War Draftee. Wrong on all counts. Georgia wrote a check it couldn't cash by starting a war with Russia (which it promptly lost). The U.S. sponsored a coup that overthrew the elected government of the Ukraine which it supplanted with a puppet (aided and assisted by that famous lover of "democracy", John McCain. The Crimean people voted overwhelming to rejoin Russia after the U.S.-sponsored coup. Russia has invaded no one. You've got stop watching Fox News.

Blogger Rusty Fife November 24, 2015 7:16 PM  

@261

Forgot the link
http://www.vice.com/video/syria-syrian-oil

Anonymous Anonymous November 24, 2015 7:16 PM  

Putin's response: "A stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorism."

This from the guy who supported the other side when Bush had us fighting terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Suck it up, buttercup. So long as you're supporting "Chemical Weapons" Assad, and attacking anyone other than ISIS, you deserve to have your people killed, your planes and helicopters shot down.

You've sown the wind. Enjoy the reaping

Blogger Danby November 24, 2015 7:43 PM  

So long as you're supporting "Chemical Weapons" Assad, and attacking anyone other than ISIS, you deserve to have your people killed, your planes and helicopters shot down.

Deserve? What the hell has "deserve" to do with it? Every man here deserves death. It's not even seriously open to debate.
The question is what will happen and what should we do?

Blogger Billy November 24, 2015 7:43 PM  

It seems like the anglo-zionist's (the Americans and Israel) for lack of a better term, are going to use NATO through Turkey as an excuse for military action with the Russians. Perhaps they plan to let the Russians tire themselves out with Turkey before intervening. Putin is in a difficult position concerning his response. The U.S. has a carrier group in route and should arrive in a couple weeks. Things are not looking good internationally for Christianity and goodness. With the fallen Americans turning their sights towards one of the last outpost of christian faith. I guess the countries of the former soviet union would come after. Like Vox eluded to, Britain was dragged into to WWII through their military pact with Poland. However the U.S. is eagerly waiting to pull the NATO trigger by Turkey. Thats the way I see it.

Blogger Jmac November 24, 2015 8:00 PM  

@203 Deep Thoughts:

From your own link the article says this: "However, even if the radar image is genuine, it shows a flight track that would put the plane over Turkish territory for only a few seconds.

The flight path crosses a 2km-wide "isthmus" of Turkish territory that juts into Syria.

At the Su-24's top speed, it would have flashed across that area in well under 10 seconds. Even if it was flying much slower, the map does not show the length of incursion into Turkish airspace that Turkey has claimed took place."

It seems likely Turkey is lying about warning the pilots.

Anonymous Godfey November 24, 2015 8:06 PM  

@200

Yes, the Russians should be more "humble" like the globalist crony banker run West.

Blogger Jmac November 24, 2015 8:06 PM  

"This from the guy who supported the other side when Bush had us fighting terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq."

Untrue, please show where Russia provided material support to the Taliban or for the Iraqi insurgency. Thinking invading Iraq was a bad idea is not the same thing as supporting the other side. Also, Russia provided equipment to the Northern Alliance to help expedite the fall of the Taliban in 2001.

Anonymous Godfey November 24, 2015 8:10 PM  

We've always been at war with Eurasia. The CIA founded Al-Qaeda are allies. Al-Qaeda has always been allies.

Anonymous Godfrey November 24, 2015 8:18 PM  

@263

LMAO... the fiat monetary Globalists are going to take out Russia next. Russia knows the score. ONE fiat monetary BANK TO RULE THEM ALL.

Blogger Culture War Draftee November 24, 2015 9:06 PM  

@267 LOL, like it or not, when you send troops into a foreign country, even if they shot first, it's still an invasion. Did you know the US invaded Europe in 1944? In fact Overlord is still referred to as the Invasion of Normandy. Maybe "invade" and "occupy" are too triggering for you.

You really are a moron if you think pointing out that Putin uses military force to achieve his ends means you want war with Russia. Get yourself a dictionary.

Blogger Nate November 24, 2015 9:09 PM  

"LMAO... the fiat monetary Globalists are going to take out Russia next."


Best of luck.

Blogger allyn71 November 24, 2015 9:10 PM  

The Russians have been bombing the shit out of the Turkey allied rebels around Aleppo as they work to stop the flow of US TOW missles from Turkey to the rebel groups inside Syria.

Those anti-tank TOW missles have been devastating to the Syrian/Iranian ground attempts to retake Aleppo. Looks like the Russians were being too effective at interdicting those shipments.

The heat just got turned up a notch.

Blogger The Other Robot November 24, 2015 9:14 PM  

Which country is going to make the next mistake?

Can we look forward to a Russian response tomorrow morning.

Blogger Curtis November 24, 2015 9:23 PM  

@265

The objective has never changed.

@233 tells you the objective.

Anyhow, all you need to know about NATO-Turkey and CIA-ISIS: http://www.globalresearch.ca/search?q=Turkey+ISIS&x=0&y=0

And it is not really that hard to figure out the US/NATO endgame: http://tinyurl.com/pohyyv6

And terrorism is just an excuse for the continued PNAC project: https://youtu.be/SXS3vW47mOE

Blogger Alexandros November 24, 2015 9:54 PM  

Are there this many people who read this site who legitimately believe that Assad is a bad guy?

I'm kinda blown away; I didn't think you swallowed American propaganda that easily.

Blogger Rusty Fife November 24, 2015 10:29 PM  

@282 Alexandros

First, many who are on this site are Christians who believe NO one is a good guy and all are fallen.

Second, it's not that Assad was all that bad, only he wasn't so bad as to end up swinging from a lamp post.

Anonymous Godfrey November 24, 2015 10:35 PM  

@282

He's not as bad as Soros. I'd like to see Soros swing.

Blogger Nate November 24, 2015 10:37 PM  

"Are there this many people who read this site who legitimately believe that Assad is a bad guy?"

Idiots. Seriously.

This is not hard. Qatar wants a pipeline to Europe. Russia does not want it to happen. Assad is blocking it.

The US created ISIS to over throw Assad to get the pipeline built. Turkey likes ISIS because Turkey wants the pipeline.

As long as you remember this is about the pipeline... all the players and their positions make perfect sense.

Blogger Rusty Fife November 24, 2015 10:43 PM  

@285 Nate

No blood for oil! Wait. What?

Blogger Rusty Fife November 24, 2015 10:46 PM  

@285 Nate

OT trying out the Russell 's Reserve. Needed a bottle of Rare Breed to do A-B testing.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 24, 2015 10:46 PM  

@285 Nate

As long as you remember this is about the pipeline... all the players and their positions make perfect sense.
---

So these same people who head for the fainting couch if the word Keystone is spoken aloud are throwing an entire region into war for a different pipeline? If that's true, then these people are crazier than I ever imagined.

Blogger Frank Brady November 24, 2015 11:17 PM  

It is absolutely incredible that so many posters here are still defending the indefensible invasion of Iraq by the idiot Bush and his lying gang of neocon war whores.

Blogger Danby November 24, 2015 11:22 PM  

@288
Keystone will lower the price of gasoline and diesel in the US. (and, strangely enough, in Soviet Canuckistan as well)
The people who want the price of gas to be higher are funding the enviros to shutdown the pipeline project. Obama wasn't getting a big enough cut, so he stalled. Now he's decided, so they must've met his price.

This ain't rocket science.

Anonymous Anonymous November 24, 2015 11:29 PM  

Turkmen != Turkey

We don't care.

At least I don't, and I suspect Russia won't care either if it's more convenient not to.

The Turkmen are Turkey's proxies, and whether they are just turks or turk-turks, they'll have war-war if it goes much farther. Proxies only give you plausible deniability as long as diplomats are calling the shots, but shooting down planes and murdering the pilots and their rescuers can take the diplomats out of the loop.

Blogger Phillip George November 24, 2015 11:37 PM  

pipeline or not it looks like Turkey are working for on new Ottoman empire so the pipe-dreams continue.
And Russia has to push on. The side story in this is Kiev have cut the power to Crimea. In anyone else's language that is an act of war.

So next year Christmas in Constantinople comrades.

Anonymous The Kulak November 25, 2015 12:04 AM  

This Russian graphic needs no translation from Cyrillic. Turkish tour operators at Antalya are f----ed, and not just because the Russian babes are gonna be gone this winter:

https://twitter.com/13studiya/status/669272603173982208

"Turkish arrogance has caused much suffering throughout their history" fixed that for all you Russia haters trawling here.

And I can imagine Turkey's F-16s have violated Syrian air space to bomb Kurds for a hell of a lot longer than 17 seconds. That ends now. For all of ya'll who think Russian military hardware is shite and Uncle Sam's Fighting Falcons that are barely upgraded beyond the Turkish standard are invincible, sit back and watch the role reversal of the 1980 Israeli MiGs Turkey shoot over Lebanon only this time with Ivan greasing Mehmet fighter jock with S400 missiles coming at him like meteors at Mach fucking 12 and Su30s ambushing the survivors hauling ass back to Incirlik.

Blogger SciVo November 25, 2015 1:28 AM  

@ Rhys O'Reilly: For those of you in America, do you believe that Americans will ever support a war against Russia on behalf of islam?

Ha! No, and Hell no. But I don't know about the bubble boys inside the Beltway; they live in a whole 'nother world, determined by dollars rather than morals or even votes.

Anonymous Anonymous November 25, 2015 1:42 AM  

And I can imagine Turkey's F-16s have violated Syrian air space to bomb Kurds for a hell of a lot longer than 17 seconds.

Last I saw, there were 3-4x the number of US bomber strikes in Syria than Rooskie strikes. Seems like we're putting an awful lot of targets into play ourselves.

Blogger SciVo November 25, 2015 2:15 AM  

@ Jack Amok: We're playing patty-cake or we would've won by now. Ergo, it's just for show, and our rulers hate having to pretend to care that Muslims are raping Christians.

Blogger The Rev November 25, 2015 11:30 AM  

@221

Thanks!

Blogger dlw November 25, 2015 12:27 PM  

> @Markku - Right up until boots on the ground, then it's only
> fun for the Finns.

"Welcome to beautiful Finland. A souvenir for your visit is arriving at 800 meters per second. Have a wonderful day!"

Blogger Sithicus November 26, 2015 3:31 PM  

Looks like Russians are starting to remove kebabs:

https://khabaristantimes.com/world/russia-shuts-down-donner-kebab-stands-as-world-war-iii-kicks-off/

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