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Sunday, February 21, 2016

Mailvox: why turn your back on conservatives

Doc Rampage doesn't understand why I'm not courting conservatives in building a new social media alternative:
The words in parenthesis are not inherent characteristics of the group, but are prominent in the current environment.

    Left: envy, greed, (hatred)
    Conservatives: justice, propriety, (resentment)
    libertarians: pride, rationality
    Alt-right: clannishness, loyalty, (spite)

The Left is always talking egalitarian, but a Leftist never passes up a chance to get ahead of his fellows and they are always trying to create hierarchies with themselves on top. This is because they only want egalitarianism due to envy--they don't want anyone to have an advantage they don't have.

Everyone hates conservatives for being unreliable political partners. The reason is that their primary loyalty is not to a group but to abstract principles like justice, and they will follow their idea of justice even at the group's expense, or even at their own expense.

Libertarians are drawn to their beliefs in large part because they think that starting on a completely level playing field, they would come out near the top. Many of them are right--they tend to be intelligent and well-educated. But their pride in their own ability makes them unable to sympathize with the fact that most people need social support of various kinds.

As to the alt-right, it is clannishness and spite that drives someone on the alt-right to capriciously insult conservatives in a message where they might instead be finding common ground and help in a common cause, driving them away instead of inviting them to help.
It's interesting to see how Doc Rampage's observations are so perspicacious while his conclusions about the alt-right are so wrong. It's not spite that causes me to turn my back on conservatives, but rather, the very conservative unreliability he points out that is why I have no interest in finding common ground with them. They are worse than useless; it would be a tremendous mistake to rely upon them because they are unreliable.

Moreover, as Red Eagle and I showed in Cuckservative, conservatives don't actually have any principles. They think they do, but what they really have is an attitude; one can hardly call it a philosophy. That's why conservatives are forever going on about who is "electable" or which candidate is "serious"; those are not the words of abstract thinkers who reject pragmatism in the name of principle.

Even their oft-proclaimed self-definitions are unreliable.

If there are conservatives who want to help because what I'm doing will better serve their abstract principles than the alternatives, that's great, but I'm not going to depend upon their support because I don't trust them one little bit. I will place my trust in those who have repeatedly shown they have my back, in those who will not bug out the first time they get called names by SJWs or decide they don't completely approve of my every word or action.

What are the VFM? What are the Dread Ilk? Are they conservative? Are they libertarian? Are they alt-right? I neither know nor care. What I know is that they will be there when called. They will show up when needed. They are implacably opposed to my ideological enemies. And that's all I need to know.

Conservapedia is a good demonstration of what a social media project that relies upon conservatives looks like.

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121 Comments:

Blogger Doom February 21, 2016 5:46 AM  

Conservative, at this point, as it is, means business, of a courser nature. They will sell, kill, and even eat their own to make it all work out. I define myself as conservative, but I'm not. I think that changed when I dropped out of the Rep party, mostly. Bad habits and all mind you.

I'm thinking alt-right, simply due to the notion that Trump is as good as I see it getting, politically. While I don't trust the bastard, or any of them, if he does the bigger portion of what he suggests... that's as good as it gets. If he does, truly, somehow, all that the suggests? We won't have had as good of a politician in my lifetime by two, maybe three.

I'm not socially political though. That is the left, and why it may end up winning. Of course, when it wins, it cuts it's own throat along with everyone else for many or no reason. Bleh. Fixes itself in time.

Blogger Samuel Nock February 21, 2016 6:00 AM  

Conservatives dismiss Trump today for being too "big government". And they dismissed Ron Paul in 2008 for being to "small government". Yeah, principled.

Anonymous Steve February 21, 2016 6:03 AM  

conservatives don't actually have any principles. They think they do, but what they really have is an attitude

And what an attitude!

I watched Little Jebbie's concession speech and he was still sperging on to his dying gasp about his detailed policies that nobody cares about and congratulating himself on "refusing to bend to the political winds" - cuckspeak for "ewww! I'm not going to soil my manicured conservative fingernails by doing what icky rightwing voters want!"

It's all faggy virtue-signalling and displacement activity obsessions with the minutae of tax codes and the like with these guys. And desperate "please clap" appeals to the media cool kids club to stop calling them names.

A conservative is the sort of chap who, if he caught his wife in bed with another man, would worry first and foremost about what the neighbours might think of him.

They're not merely useless, they're the enemy. Any honest review of the 'achievements' of the last 100 years of conservatism must conclude that they're the Left's loyal opposition.

They're a built-in safety valve, not a barrier, to the rising sewertide of poz.

That's why 10 year old kids are being taught about the pleasures of transsexual bumsex in schools, why hordes of unwelcome foreigners are flooding the West, and why you - Mr. Gullible Taxpayer - get to pay for it all.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge©2016 February 21, 2016 6:12 AM  

what about when truth isn't an abstract principle? It's really Jesus or nothing; but details, details, details.
I've got your back Vox, but be prepared to take criticism..
Last man standing doesn't care whether it's principles, practical or possible. Is it true? It's the only question to animate one to life ever after.

Blogger Melampus the Seer February 21, 2016 6:58 AM  

Couldn't agree more.

Blogger Aeoli Pera February 21, 2016 7:14 AM  

Steve wrote:I watched Little Jebbie's concession speech and he was still sperging on to his dying gasp...

Sperg-bashing is fun for everyone but associating us with Yeb is just bad taste man.

OpenID crash February 21, 2016 7:17 AM  

I don't understand how did Conservapedia fail by relying on conservatives ?

Blogger Stilicho February 21, 2016 7:32 AM  

Pat Buchanan is an actual conservative and doesn't resemble your description. Problem is, since Reagan left office, Bush Republicans have so effectively claimed to be "conservative" that they have co-opted the name and it is primarily associated with big govt, big debt, invade the world invite the world wilsonianism, and socialist crony-capitalism that any meaning the term once had is gone and the replacement meaning is exactly as you describe. Buchanan's recent op ed on Trump's support being based in a rejection of Bush Republicanism is spot on. So be it. Say hello to the militant right. if lefties are upset, they can blame the Bushes. Accurately, for a change.

Anonymous Steve February 21, 2016 7:44 AM  

Aeoli Pera - Some of my best friends have assburgers!

Blogger Unknown February 21, 2016 7:46 AM  

Not every self described conservative has abandoned small government principles. The problem is far too many who _call_ themselves conservatives have. The later outnumber the former by a YUGE margin.
Most of the former have stopped even showing up at the polls; they don't think voting will fix anything, and are abstaining out of protest.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 21, 2016 8:05 AM  

Conservatives have a guiding principle and that is Respectability. And who determines respectability? Yep you guessed it, the Left.

Anonymous DJF February 21, 2016 8:08 AM  

I have long given up listening to the labels people use, conservative, liberal, progressive, moderate, etc

I look to see who and what they support and advocate.

What are the conservatives conserving
What are the liberals liberal about
What are progressives progressing toward
What are the moderates moderate about.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 21, 2016 8:11 AM  

It is not Donald Trump that is the problem it is ass faces like George Will (insert any contard's name here) who's Respectability Performance Review is in the hands of some purple haired metal stud face fat assed emotionally damaged SJW blogger/media personality who grades contards on the Sexist, Racist, Homophobic scale.

Blogger YIH February 21, 2016 8:40 AM  

crash:
I don't understand how did Conservapedia fail by relying on conservatives ?
Even moar lulz and drama than Whackopedia:
NSFW Encyclopedia Dramatica or straight from the horse's, uhh, mouth
Or Conservapedia on Vox which is about as accurate as Wikipedia.

Blogger JaimeInTexas February 21, 2016 8:42 AM  

A couple of Joseph Sobtan's essays on conservatism.

Hijacking the Conservative Movement
http://www.sobran.com/articles/leads/2006-11-lead.shtml

The relevant text is in the section titled Gaining Respect:
http://www.sobran.com/issuetexts/2003-10.htm

Blogger Salt February 21, 2016 8:44 AM  

why turn your back on conservatives

They look best that way. Call them cucks, call them moderate liberals in disguise. They are not of the alt-right. They collaborate, always giving ground to the enemy.

OpenID simplytimothy February 21, 2016 9:01 AM  

John Podhoretz, in response to Trump, remarked that it was "they who got to define 'conservative'".

"Why is this so important?", I asked myself. On reflection, it is the heart of their strategy.

ESR wrote of Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, Execute strategy regarding Java, and the analogy works for explaining Podhoretz purposes.

By 'embracing' conservativism, they earned the mindshare to 'extend' the meaning of the word. This extension required the purging of conservatives from their definition...Sobran, Buchanan, Derbyshire, etc. Their hope was/is to 'execute' conservativism and replace it with a Globalist/Multi-culturalism all while defining that as 'conservative'.


I do not know how this battle over definitions will play out. I can surmise that if the Podhoretz's of the world lose, they will attempt to repeat the ploy.

I would love to beat them at their own game, but I don't live in that world, I don't think like they do.

There is a danger here. "Alt-Right"/"Dissident-Right"/"Militant Right" is conservativism; it seeks to conserve Christendom. The labels, "Alt, Dissident,Militant" convey a diminutive power relationship, as being in the out group, fighting the "Real" conservatives.
The terms cede the definition to the Podhoretz's fo the world.

Correcting that I will leave to more subtle minds than mine.






Blogger Legion of Logic February 21, 2016 9:16 AM  

I suppose if vastly overgeneralizing everyone who might fall under the conservative umbrella, while supporting a petty little authoritarian flip flopper like Donald Trump, is the attitude necessary to save the country, then I suppose I will sit back and watch the country crumble.

What will you use as an excuse when Trump governs lIke a liberal? Given how he changes his positions at will, that seems as equally likely an outcome as him doing what you hope he will, whatever that is.

Blogger VD February 21, 2016 9:41 AM  

What will you use as an excuse when Trump governs lIke a liberal? Given how he changes his positions at will, that seems as equally likely an outcome as him doing what you hope he will, whatever that is.

What part of "there are only two issues that matter" do you not understand? We don't care how Trump governs so long as he a) shuts down the immigration flood, b) starts deporting foreigners and c) protects gun rights.

If he doesn't do those things, the country is no more.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 21, 2016 9:55 AM  

Legion of Logic wrote:

What will you use as an excuse when Trump governs lIke a liberal? G


If you accept the idea that Cruz has the same position as Trump on immigration, Crux was soft selling it.

If he had been pitching it harder, Trump's open advocacy for immigration restrictions wouldn't have been so shocking.

Trump is the only one who has moved the Overton window, regardless of everyone else's 'true' beliefs. To quote The Tyrant; "I can't spare this man; he fights."

Blogger Lovekraft February 21, 2016 9:56 AM  

A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged should be expanded upon to read: a liberal who's been mugged but won't do anything about it because he needs to keep his status.

An alt-righter is a conservative who's been mugged and is dedicated to wrapping the world in his banner of Justice with no apology.

Anonymous M.414 February 21, 2016 10:03 AM  

"The problem is far too many who _call_ themselves conservatives have."

Exactly.

I consider myself conservative (Republican is a foul word in my home) and the GOPe does not represent me in any shape, manner or form.

If I were king for a day the size of the government would be slashed 75%, we would be back on the gold standard, the cronies at the "The Federal Bank" would be hanging from lamp posts. There would be 2 border fences with a minefield in between. Mexico would be notified that assisting people to break our laws and cross our borders without permission would be considered an act of war. Knowingly hiring an illegal would be a felony, 10 years mandatory in the can. Operation Wetback II would start immediately. The IRS would be disbanded and in its place would be a flat tax with zero exceptions. No damn tax credits transferring wealth from one party to another.

The world would find that the USA is no better friend and no worse enemy. If it must find itself in a conflict then it will be unrestricted warfare with the place leveled to the ground like Germany or Japan in WWII. Screw nation building, it almost never works. Note I said almost.

There would be a national level reciprocation of firearm permits- What part of "The right to bear arms shall not be infringed" is not clear?

All federal payments to states would be cut off. You made your individual messes you clean them up or declare bankruptcy. Uncle Sugar isn't going to bail you out.

I could go on, but that is a start.

Blogger Timmy3 February 21, 2016 10:09 AM  

Reagan was the almost perfect conservative, almost because he passed amnesty that still reverberates today. So I'm agreeing with you that conservatives betrayed conservative principles. However, there no acknowledgement of Cruz that actually was against much of what's going on in Congress with no support from other Republican Senators. Maybe no one likes him because he wants to be a principled conservative. Trump is a loose cannon. He uses the unlikeable criticism of Cruz in a cynical way. What happens next depends upon who he appoints in his government. Since Trump is not an ideologue, this is about what Trump believes is right (at the moment). This is what's happening with every politician. It will be nice for him to fulfill his promises. Then there are other issues of government that we have no clue about. I suppose he'll have no problem with being unlikeable once in office.

Anonymous M.414 February 21, 2016 10:10 AM  

"What part of "there are only two issues that matter" do you not understand? We don't care how Trump governs so long as he a) shuts down the immigration flood, b) starts deporting foreigners and c) protects gun rights."

I often use the point with people I'm having a discussion with that it is insanity to have more people come here and then I twist the knife. Why on earth would you have more mouths to feed coming here when there is 100 million Americans out of work? Almost everyone knows someone out of work and you personalize the issue by pointing this out. "So and so is out of work, why would you import more people to compete against them in the workplace when jobs are scarce?"

Usually they are forced to agree that a wall needs to be built. Only Trump states he will do it so therefore there is no other choice.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 21, 2016 10:17 AM  

The Right (conservatives are not and never were Rightist) is the natural place for realpolitik libertarians, i.e., self-confident people who wish to live in a society that is relatively free and be ruled by systems that actually make sense most of the time.

The Right is relatively meritocratic, as opposed to the soul-destroying totalitarianism of the Left-collectivists. It is also the only path to preserving Western Civilization and all its fruits (which Leftists take for granted and barbarians covet yet cannot produce.)

Blogger Rusty Fife February 21, 2016 10:26 AM  

M.414 wrote:Only Trump states he will do it so therefore there is no other choice

This is the part that is uncharitable. Cruz was sticking his toe over the Overton line on this and soft peddling it; but, he was there first. He was being a bit of a sneak about it.

Trump's genius is charging over the line, doing donuts in the General Lee, and blowing Dixie while not telling anyone where the new line is.

Anonymous M.414 February 21, 2016 10:26 AM  

"Reagan was the almost perfect conservative, almost because he passed amnesty that still reverberates today."

Part of the deal was that democrats were suppose to build a wall on the border. Of course they screwed Reagan at the first opportunity on the deal.

Blogger Dexter February 21, 2016 10:32 AM  

One reason conservatives are unreliable is because what they are trying to "conserve" is a moving target -- and is ultimately determined by their enemies, the Left.

What us unthinkably freakish today will be accepted with resignation tomorrow and then endorsed as the view of All True Conservatives by Jonah Goldberg the day after that.

Blogger Johnny Southside February 21, 2016 10:34 AM  

If liberals are the Harlem Globetrotters, conservatives are the Washington Generals

Blogger Escoffier February 21, 2016 10:36 AM  

It all came home for me during a Minutemen rally when the cucks were chanting "enforce the law!"

After the event I asked several of them what they would do when GWB accomplished his obvious goal of making illegal immigration legal?

After the mass heaed asplosion I was person non grata and I understood immediately why "conservatives," so called, are fundamentally incapable of winning a fight.

Anonymous M.414 February 21, 2016 11:02 AM  

"One reason conservatives are unreliable is because what they are trying to "conserve" is a moving target -- and is ultimately determined by their enemies, the Left."

If you let the enemy define who you are then you have already lost.

The left doesn't define who I am any more than does Jonah Goldberg.

Blogger Dire Badger February 21, 2016 11:05 AM  

Vox-

No offense intended, but if the comments section of VP is any indicator of what you consider a decent social media model, you could never create a decently popular social media site. The unthreaded comment structure here sort of sucks balls.

Blogger praetorian February 21, 2016 11:25 AM  

Nationalism appears to be the only right-wing force powerful enough to stop the ever leftward drift into state socialist totalitarianism. Conservatism and libertarianism are useless in a practical sense for the reasons Vox has outlined repeatedly. This doesn't mean they can't provide useful sentiment and theory, respectively, but they are obviously not getting the job done.

Finding a way to a humane nationalism is our best hope. But, if not, any nationalism will have to do.

Blogger Dave February 21, 2016 11:28 AM  

"You [Vox] didn't build that."

OpenID simplytimothy February 21, 2016 11:35 AM  

@20 Trump is the only one who has moved the Overton window, regardless of everyone else's 'true' beliefs.

In addition to moving it on the current invasion, he moved it on Bush's wars and he moved it on "free" trade and he moved it on how men publically treat women and he schlonged cuckservative "acceptable political discourse". In each case, he ripped the issue from the cucks and freed Americans to speak their minds and act accordingly.

Blogger James February 21, 2016 11:39 AM  

It is obviously not the case that you are turning your back on "conservatives." You are, properly and prudently, turning your back on "cuckservatives" by having standards for those you choose to inhabit the trenches of warfare with. What I would call "real" conservatives appreciate this and are drawn to you because of it, whilst the cuckservatives are enraged at being exposed as the phony balony plastic bananas that they are.
I'm a conservative libertarian my self: I believe that traditional social morality is worthy of respect but I also believe that everyone has a right and duty to have their own conscience. As such, I love the usefulness of the term "cuckservative," and I think we need a similar word to refer to fake libertarians and even fake liberals. At this point the simple epithets
Cucklibertarian and Cuckliberal might serve sufficiently to get the point across?

Anonymous BGKB February 21, 2016 11:49 AM  

Doc Rampage if you suck more liberal penises than BGS & Milo combined you are not conservative, but cuckservative

Trump is as good as I see it getting.. if he does the bigger portion of what he suggests

If he just closes the border that would be a greater effect than anyone since Raygun's border deal.I am hoping Trump offers a pardon for anyone who shots an illegal alien gang banger or drug dealer, that would have most illegals self deport even before he got into office.

but associating us with Yeb is just bad taste man

None of my STR8 friends will give me a STR8 answer, Who is uglier Jeb's wife or Obama's?

Trump's genius is charging over the line, doing donuts in the General Lee, and blowing Dixie while not telling anyone where the new line is

He held a monster truck ralley that tore up the field that the line was on.

Blogger VD February 21, 2016 11:52 AM  

No offense intended, but if the comments section of VP is any indicator of what you consider a decent social media model, you could never create a decently popular social media site. The unthreaded comment structure here sort of sucks balls.

There are two problems with your logic. First, it's inaccurate. Second, it's obviously wrong. You see, I did not create the comment structure here. Google did.

Blogger Dexter February 21, 2016 11:54 AM  

None of my STR8 friends will give me a STR8 answer, Who is uglier Jeb's wife or Obama's?

That's a toughie... wouldn't touch either of them with someone else's dick... physically Jeb's wife is probably uglier, but Michelle is morally and spiritually uglier...

Anonymous M.414 February 21, 2016 11:55 AM  

"What I would call "real" conservatives appreciate this and are drawn to you because of it, whilst the cuckservatives are enraged at being exposed as the phony balony plastic bananas that they are."

Exactly.

Opening up the borders and giving away the store CONSERVES nothing. By definition those that do so are not conservative. There is nothing conservative about Bush I -> III nor will I defend them.

The idea of what America was is worth conserving. I'll vote for anyone who is for moving the pendulum back towards what it once was and do anything I can to gum up the works for those intent on destroying it.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 21, 2016 12:04 PM  

James wrote:At this point the simple epithets

Cucklibertarian and Cuckliberal might serve sufficiently to get the point across?


Cuckatarian?

Blogger bob k. mando February 21, 2016 12:34 PM  

Q: why turn my back on Conservatives?

A: because they are too Marxist ( how many are even willing to talk about dismantling SocSec ) and Left wing for me to tolerate.

Blogger bob k. mando February 21, 2016 12:34 PM  

also, anti-Constitutional.

Blogger bob k. mando February 21, 2016 12:41 PM  

37. BGKB February 21, 2016 11:49 AM
None of my STR8 friends will give me a STR8 answer, Who is uglier Jeb's wife or Obama's?



damnit, man.

i can bleach my eyes but i can't bleach my mind. why you make me think of that?

i would have to say that at least Columba wasn't horrendously ugly when she was younger. Michelle Obama has never been less than a two bagger.

Anonymous The S:PY February 21, 2016 12:41 PM  

This is interesting:

https://twitter.com/BretEastonEllis/status/701300328675700736

Hollywood support for Trump?

OpenID sigbouncer February 21, 2016 12:50 PM  

"They think they do, but what they really have is an attitude;"

An attitude followed by many spurious words.

OpenID crash February 21, 2016 1:49 PM  

@14 Thanks, I see where the failure idea is coming from. I never took Conservapedia as something that is meant to reach out to the persuadable.

Anonymous #8601 Jean Valjean February 21, 2016 1:50 PM  

Trump's supporters seem so much more motivated and energized than any other candidate on either side. This bodes well for the general election. Trump's supporters will actually get off their butts and vote.

Anonymous Red February 21, 2016 2:07 PM  

Vox you nailed conservatives perfectly. After your post I went over to ace of spades hq and ask them some questions if they supported the American people or their "conservative" principles more.

The results where them trashing the American people, being told that immigrants are the real conservatives(They hated me pointing out what happened to CA), and endless holier than though rants about them knowing the Constitution better. They spent most of their time insulting me and eventually banned and deleted my posts without warning. This demonstrating that free speech isn't one of their "conservative" principles.

Blogger Lana J February 21, 2016 2:13 PM  

This is the kind of support you can expect from conservatives. Simultaneously supporting you while stabbing you in the back.

Blogger Charlie Martel 7359 February 21, 2016 2:41 PM  

An SJW once complimented me on my loyalty. In retrospect it was probably the thing that got me to snap out of the trance.

Blogger rcocean February 21, 2016 2:42 PM  

"Pat Buchanan is an actual conservative and doesn't resemble your description."

National Review, Hot air, Fox News, and all the self-described "conservatives" long ago read Buchanan out of the movement and labeled him a "Populist" and "Nationalist".

Blogger rcocean February 21, 2016 2:43 PM  

And according to National review, Kristol and Podhertz Coulter, Steyn, and Derbyshire aren't "conservatives" either. They're "right-wing extremists".

Anonymous Jack Amok February 21, 2016 2:45 PM  

Conservatives have a guiding principle and that is Respectability. And who determines respectability? Yep you guessed it, the Left.

Well put.

Blogger ray February 21, 2016 3:14 PM  

"We don't care how Trump governs so long as he a) shuts down the immigration flood, b) starts deporting foreigners and c) protects gun rights."


Those aren't the leading issues for me, and I'm not part of that 'we'. Or anybody's 'we' unless it's Christ.

Blogger kmbr February 21, 2016 3:28 PM  

**That's why 10 year old kids are being taught about the pleasures of transsexual bumsex in schools, why hordes of unwelcome foreigners are flooding the West, and why you - Mr. Gullible Taxpayer - get to pay for it all.**

Sometimes, I wonder, though, WTF are we hanging on to?

My son is a STEM kid and, by default, nearly all his friends are, maybe, 2nd generation from what we would consider 3rd world places.

They keep a tight reign on their kids. They largely only socialize with family, church, etc. THEIR kids are getting far less submersion into the sewer culture than little white kid Billy in the suburbs with his pants hanging down to his ankles, listening to corporate rap, surfing porn, smoking heroin and experimenting with the same sex or, at minimum, defending it--

Anonymous Jack Amok February 21, 2016 3:47 PM  

As to the alt-right, it is clannishness and spite...

I'm sure it looks like spite to people still invested in Conservative Respectability, but it is not spite. If you want to assign an emotion to it, it's frustration. Our society continues to become poorer, less safe, and more dysfunctional. The respectable status quo has failed to solve important problems, and recently - responding to the left tugging their leashes - has stopped even acknowledging the problems exist.

On the alt-right we are essentially firing conservatives as our political representatives. We hired them to do a job, they failed miserably at it, so we're replacing them. Of course, since they're so heavily invested in their image, they can't admit that's what's going on - to them it just looks like childish spite.

I'm sure it doesn't help that most of us have decided if we're going to flip the table over, we might as well have fun doing it. But nobody attracts effective revolutionaries by promising them a dull time.

Blogger VD February 21, 2016 3:52 PM  

Those aren't the leading issues for me, and I'm not part of that 'we'. Or anybody's 'we' unless it's Christ.

Thank you, Mr. Christian Virtue Signaler. I'm sure we're all very impressed with your piety. You vote for Jesus Christ in November if you like. Meanwhile, the rest of us will address the actual issues at hand.

Blogger Escoffier February 21, 2016 4:11 PM  

VD wrote:Those aren't the leading issues for me, and I'm not part of that 'we'. Or anybody's 'we' unless it's Christ.

Thank you, Mr. Christian Virtue Signaler. I'm sure we're all very impressed with your piety. You vote for Jesus Christ in November if you like. Meanwhile, the rest of us will address the actual issues at hand.


Concur massively and as a pretty serious and devout Christian. Say Ray, why don't you elucidate which Christian issue you feel comes above permanently empowering and electing the baby killers on the left by importing and legalizing a couple of twenty million more third worlders?

Blogger RobertT February 21, 2016 4:14 PM  

I have no idea if this analysis is correct or not, not do I care. But this is what I learned about conservatism when I infiltrated their clique.

Before I ever did anything politically, I was already running for Congress, as a Republican because had Carter driven me off my youthful Kennedy moorings. Although establishment, the State organization and the other candidates, regarded me as a gate breaker and tried valiantly to litmus test me. But my campaign got wheels before anyone could do anything about it. Real Republican candidates bailed to avoid being embarrassed. I was nominated at the state convention with 98% of the vote. But everyone in the establishment hated my guts. They eventually got even by refusing to fund my campaign. Before the end of my campaign I had already given up on Republicans and Conservatives.

This is what I learned. In the real world of actual on –the-ground conservative activists, the people who do the footwork, it's just a word they couldn’t define if they had to. People are always slapping a definition on it, but that's always observers like the press or pundits or the Republican hierarchy. To conservatives themselves it’s just a code word they belong to something important. All they are concerned about is rubbing shoulders with the establishment. They're all wannabes. They wannabe around important people. They wannabe an official important person themselves. They wannabe anything besides what they are, terribly unimportant people life is leaving behind.

Blogger RobertT February 21, 2016 4:29 PM  

I just read an article saying we are returning to American Conservatism. What the hell does that mean? When Republicans talked about a big tent, they we obviously talking about all the various types and definitions of conservative. The problem is, nobody on the ground in S C could regurgitate any of them. And that doesn't bode well for Mark Levin and/or the National Review. Their time in the sun is done.

Blogger RobertT February 21, 2016 4:29 PM  

I just read an article saying we are returning to American Conservatism. What the hell does that mean? When Republicans talked about a big tent, they we obviously talking about all the various types and definitions of conservative. The problem is, nobody on the ground in S C could regurgitate any of them. And that doesn't bode well for Mark Levin and/or the National Review. Their time in the sun is done.

Blogger Young Heaving Bosoms of Confederacy February 21, 2016 4:48 PM  

Dire Badger wrote:The unthreaded comment structure here sort of sucks balls.

Threaded comments are retarded and evil. No sane person who has given it any thought can disagree.

Blogger Robert What? February 21, 2016 4:59 PM  

As has already been observed by brighter minds than mine, the conservative movement in the US is dead. It requires that there is something remaining to "conserve". There isn't.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 21, 2016 5:17 PM  

Dire Badger wrote:Vox-

The unthreaded comment structure here sort of sucks balls.


No offense intended, perhaps you should upgrade your RAM to handle the threading off platform.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 21, 2016 6:18 PM  

@22 M.414, I agree almost down to the punctuation with everything you said. *That* is what a conservative is. Vox has no idea what a conservative even is. He looks at the Republican party and says, "Hey, that's the conservative party, right, so their leadership must be conservative."

Anyone who reads conservative blogs knows that there is a huge war within the Republican party between the conservatives and the party leadership, and there has been since George Bush I first broke his promise, "no new taxes." Most conservatives maintain that there is little difference between the Republican leadership and the Democrat leadership.

That's why Bill Clinton and Obama (for his second term) owe their elections in large part to conservatives who refused to come out and vote for the RINO candidates running for the Republicans (and that's why the Republican leadership is yet another group that hates conservatives).

But who is it that you think stopped McCain's and Rubio's legislative efforts to pass amnesty? You think there are enough on the non-conservative right to have stopped those measures? You are dreaming. You think there are enough alt-right to give Trump the numbers he's getting? You are dreaming. What you are seeing is a lot of conservatives holding their nose and supporting the leftist Trump as a big FU to the party leadership after having RINOs forced on them the last two elections.

Blogger rcocean February 21, 2016 6:30 PM  

"Thank you, Mr. Christian Virtue Signaler."

Otherwise known as Erick Erickson.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 21, 2016 6:31 PM  

Robert What? wrote:As has already been observed by brighter minds than mine, the conservative movement in the US is dead. It requires that there is something remaining to "conserve". There isn't.

That's utter bullshit. The name has no meaning other than what it denotes. Sandpipers don't actually pipe sand. A man named Underwood isn't necessarily under wood. The idea that conservatives want to conserve something is dumb.

Similarly dumb is taking that quote about how conservatives serve to prevent mistakes from being fixed and applying it to modern American conservatives. That quote was about British conservatives which are a different species.

Modern American conservatives are revolutionaries. We want huge social and legal changes. Read comment 22 for a taste of what conservatives want to change. It isn't even accurate to say that conservatives want to take things back to the way they were at some point in the past. There were times in the past that were better than today, but no times that didn't have problems that needed to be fixed.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 21, 2016 7:03 PM  

Vox, in response to your article, you don't pick allies for their potential to become your all-time most reliable and best buddies; you pick them based on temporary shared interests and a common enemy. That's why they are called allies rather than compatriots.

If you don't think conservatives have real principles, then you have never met a conservative and have no idea what one is.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 21, 2016 8:09 PM  

Preposterous, Doc. The Right has no temporary shared interests with conservatives. None. Even if they did, they would know from history that the conservative will betray those interests at the worst time.

A conservative is an unreliable ally, and therefore no ally at all. Conservatives don't want a wall, they don't want to illegalize immigration, they don't want to end abortion and they don't give a damn about the constitution. They don't even like winning that much.

Don't believe me?

Romney.
McCain.
Bush.
Dole.
Bush.

That is the last 25 years of conservative "principles" and compromise in action.

No thanks.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 21, 2016 8:22 PM  

If you don't think conservatives have real principles, then you have never met a conservative and have no idea what one is.

Doc, you're looking at this thing the wrong way around. The GOP establishment, the editors at National Review, the cuckservative sell-outs, all those people you insist are not really conservatives...

...well, whether they are real conservatives or not, what they indisputably are is in charge of the conservative movement. They have been for decades. The Tea Party was an attempt to evict them and get better leaders. It failed. They held onto power, and maybe even gained a stronger hold on conservative institutions.

The alt-right is the response to that. We're the folks who've decided it's time to stop throwing good money after bad and pulled the plug on our investment in the conservative label. The Tea Party was the last chance, and it fell through.

On to better things now. You are invited to join. All you have to do is leave the cuckservatives behind.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 21, 2016 8:28 PM  

If these "real conservatives" are as significant as you say, they are doubly damned: they not only stuck with a criminal organization, they covered up its worst crimes.

A conservative with principles would have been thrown out of the GOP a long long time ago. Total conflict of interest.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 21, 2016 8:32 PM  

Doc Rampage wrote:

If you don't think conservatives have real principles, then you have never met a conservative and have no idea what one is.


It's not about you.

But yes, unreliable men in your foxhole are worse than useless. If any given conservative would content themselves with laying low and staying out of the way when the shooting starts; they wouldn't be hated.

However, many of them turn their guns on the ones who are fighting; William F Buckley comes to mind.

Don't be that guy.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 21, 2016 9:07 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Don't believe me?

Romney.

McCain.

Bush.

Dole.

Bush.


Not a single one of those is a conservative or was ever really considered a conservative. Every single one of those nominees pissed off conservatives and many conservatives refused to vote for them. I personally left the Republican party when Bush II was nominated.

Your conservative is a bogeyman.

Blogger VD February 21, 2016 9:14 PM  

If you don't think conservatives have real principles, then you have never met a conservative and have no idea what one is.

You literally don't know your own intellectual history. You're simply too ignorant to even have this discussion.

I agree almost down to the punctuation with everything you said. *That* is what a conservative is. Vox has no idea what a conservative even is. He looks at the Republican party and says, "Hey, that's the conservative party, right, so their leadership must be conservative."

I stand corrected. You're not merely too ignorant, you're too stupid. I'm not looking at the Republican party at all. Not only haven't you read Burke or Kirk, you haven't even read my relevant books.

But that doesn't stop you from opining in complete ignorance. Which is what makes you stupid.

Blogger VD February 21, 2016 9:17 PM  

In the real world of actual on –the-ground conservative activists, the people who do the footwork, it's just a word they couldn’t define if they had to.

Precisely. Whereas those who have read Cuckservative can. They know exactly where the word comes from, what it means, and that most of those who identify themselves by it don't.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 21, 2016 9:18 PM  

Rusty Fife wrote:However, many of them turn their guns on the ones who are fighting; William F Buckley comes to mind.

Yeah, Vox says that all the time and it's total bullshit. William F. Buckley was fighting a war for the survival of civilization against Communism. People don't remember it now, but in 1950, pretty much everyone, including Buckley were so dispirited by the sight of one country after another falling to Communists that they thought the West was pretty much doomed. There was no conservative party in those days--conservatives were pretty much evenly divided between the parties--and no one in power in either of the two major parties or the press would listen to conservatives who were trying to warn them about the impending disaster. While the John Birch society was worrying about fluoridated water, Buckley was worried about the survival of civilization. And if he had to disassociate himself from the people that made it easy for the Communists in the American press to portray all anti-Communists as crazy, well, he was the man on the spot who had to make the decision. Loyalty to one group or save civilization. Loyalty to one group or save civilization. Huh. Tough choice. And Buckley made the right choice. Because of his work, it was possible to elect Reagan who defeated Communism.

William F. Buckley was a great American hero.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 21, 2016 9:31 PM  

I never said that they were conservatives. I said that if conservatives fighting the good fight could only muster a compromise resulting in those traitors...then conservatives are way bigger villains than I originally thought.

Conservatives have conserved an awful party with nation slaying principles at its heart. So yeah. Not on the side of the good guys.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 21, 2016 9:34 PM  

VD wrote:I stand corrected. You're not merely too ignorant, you're too stupid. I'm not looking at the Republican party at all. Not only haven't you read Burke or Kirk, you haven't even read my relevant books.

I've read Cuckservative, if that's what you're talking about. Your discussion of what a conservative is in that book is completely wrong. Words aren't defined by dusty tomes written by social commentators half a century ago. Words are defined by current usage, and since Ronald Reagan, "conservative" has referred to a group of people who have a general set of political and ideological views. And none of those views have anything to do with conserving something.

Names change their meaning over time. The people who are called conservatives today would have been called liberals not too long ago. The people called liberals today would have been called socialists and communists not too long ago.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 21, 2016 9:35 PM  

Buckley just had to betray the John Birch Society for what reason again?

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 21, 2016 9:43 PM  

The JBS financed Buckley as a promising young conservative. He betrayed them at the first opportunity, and never quit, doubling down every time his lies were exposed.

Tell me again, Doc, how model conservatives make great allies.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 21, 2016 9:47 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Conservatives have conserved an awful party with nation slaying principles at its heart. So yeah. Not on the side of the good guys.

And what was the alternative? Conservatives defeated Communism, they defeated the ERA, they defeated gun control among other things. Regardless of how bad the Supreme Court may be, you can't honestly think it wouldn't be a lot worse without the Republican-appointed justices. They accomplished these things by *gasp* allying with people that they didn't always agree with, to get the things that they did agree with. Meanwhile, where the fuck was the glorious alt-right? Why didn't the alt-right stop mass immigration 40 years ago. If there was some magical way the conservatives could have stopped it without getting their hands dirty voting for pseudo-socialists like the Bushes? Why didn't the alt right use this magical solution? Why weren't they stopping all this bad stuff? Why weren't they getting good people on the Supreme Court and electing good presidents and congressmen? If it was so easy, why didn't you do it?

Blogger Rusty Fife February 21, 2016 9:50 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Buckley just had to betray the John Birch Society for what reason again?

They weren't 'respectable' to the East Coast establishment. Doc Rampage, the Blue Falcon, even says so as he turns his gun on his fellow right wingers.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 21, 2016 9:58 PM  

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/goldwater-the-john-birch-society-and-me/

This is the best part, from Buckley's own hand in 2008. "The wound we Palm Beach plotters delivered to the John Birch Society proved fatal over time. Barry Goldwater did not win the presidency, but he clarified the proper place of anti-Communism on the Right, with bright prospects to follow."

WFB, tell us again how you've stopped the tide of Marxism in the US!

Blogger Rusty Fife February 21, 2016 10:00 PM  

Doc Rampage wrote:If it was so easy, why didn't you do it?

Team Cuckservative keeps stabbing us in the back.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 21, 2016 10:07 PM  

The Supreme Court has installed a kritarchy. Amnesty, abortion, invasion and gay marriage all lay at the Republican doorstep.

It doesn't matter, Doc. We, the Right, are stopping it now.

Without you.

Anonymous BGKB February 21, 2016 10:26 PM  

you don't pick allies for their potential to become your all-time most reliable and best buddies; you pick them based on temporary shared interests and a common enemy

Doc Rampage chose conservative ally
1.Gay nurse who would carry out the death penalty given to moslems by playing "black doctor before computerized pharmacies" & doesn't want more money taken from his wallet going to Latrina's 21 crack babies
or
2. Cuck that would stab you in the back 3 times before the cock crows if someone played the race card

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 21, 2016 11:44 PM  

@Doc Rampage
Either "True Conservatives" are so rare on the ground as to be a completely negligible force in the world, or they are so completely useless that a relatively weak and feckless coterie of beta males and Jews has kept True Conservatism so thoroughly cucked and enslaved for money and votes that the general public doesn't even know what conservatives believe

Your choice
Either way, the conservatism you describe is pathetic

Anonymous Instasetting February 22, 2016 1:22 AM  

So much self-inflating nonsense.

The biggest, most important prize in the world is the American Conservative Movement. The Libertarians tried to conquer it, but well, Tarians are not really that bright, nor tough, nor humane, nor numerous.

Now the Alt-Right wants to try a slightly different strategy, but not very different to try to Get the Gold Ring.

Understandable. Really.

You get the ACM, mobilize them, and you can rule America, and America can lead the world.

I'm not sure I'm against Vox doing this. After all, he's mostly going the right way. Its just the blatant propaganda of the whole thing that is a bit galling.

We had the same thing from Noted Conservative John McCain and his McCainiacs. They shouted at the Base at how useless we were, and how we better not dare not turn out to support the Anointed One.

The McCainiacs did not dare say the truth. 'Dear Base, we need your help desperately. Without you, the Libertarians might get second place to the Democrats. We're a bunch of loud-mouthed, hateful hustlers who have barely enough people to fill out a table at McDonalds. Please help us."

Now, they were never, ever going to say that. Because we would have demanded some actual effort on Conservative goals, and because their self-image was founded on 'we're better than them.'

The Alt-Right is a bit different than the McCainiacs. The self-image thing, and the tiny size thing is right, but in general a Conservative and an Altoid agree, just like most of the time, a Conservative and a Libertarian agreed.

But the Altoid or the Tarian cannot take over the ACM by saying 'you know George, we agree with you ninety percent of the time.' In order to mount a coup, you have to denounce the traitors.

The interesting thing is that the Altoids and the Tarians used the same line of attack. They'd point to some totally obvious Non-conservative like....

Bush1
McCain
Bush2
Romney....and claim all conservatives were like these conservatives.

Now, the Tarians really had to know better. Its not like its a complicated matter to see the difference between 'NO Abortion, 10% Flat Tax, End the IRS<Dept of Educ., Commerce, Interior, HHS, NPR YESTERDAY' and oh, Mitch McConnell.

So one is forced to conclude they are lying. Or Really, really dumb.

There is one thing that the Altoids have brought that is good....a willingness to attack. The Conservatives have played defense for far too long.

Reagan was asked about his foreign policy as regards to Russia. "Its simple. We win. They lose."

That is the Altoid advantage. This cheap propaganda...its mildly annoying and amusing for those of us in the know. And maybe I show my lack of fire when I say, perhaps it is for the best that the Altoids cheat their way to the top. Oftentimes victory comes from mistakes.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 22, 2016 1:33 AM  

Now the Alt-Right wants to try a slightly different strategy, but not very different to try to Get the Gold Ring.


Yet another linear thinker who sees the future only through the lens of the past. And not even the whole past, but only the most recent handful of decades.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 22, 2016 2:07 AM  

Instasetting wrote:The interesting thing is that the Altoids and the Tarians used the same line of attack. They'd point to some totally obvious Non-conservative like....

Bush1

McCain

Bush2

Romney....and claim all conservatives were like these conservatives.


What a load of unmitigated faggotry.
So, Mr My Conservative Movement is the Most Importantest and Most Powerfullest Movement EVAR and You Alt-Righters can Kiss My Harry Ass, who did you vote for in 200? 2004? 2008? 2012?
Because by your own reckoning, you didn't have a conservative candidate to vote for.
So, who did you vote for, faggot? But you're too goddamn pure and interlectual for us alt-righters, right? Because one day your Lords and Masters among the Trotskyite Jewish cabal that run your movement will actually let you run a Real Conservative candidate! Any election cycle now.
Just you wait and see.
Cucking idiot.
If what you say is true, the Conservative Movement is the biggest batch of pussies in the world, and would lose a fist fight with a Korean cathouse.

Blogger newanubis February 22, 2016 2:44 AM  

C'Mon Doc, that's funny.

Anonymous Instasetting February 22, 2016 2:51 AM  

Remember when the Left accused the Tea Party of being 'teabaggers' and the TP were going 'um, whazzat?' Yeah, 'unmitigated faggottry' fits in their real well, Snidely. Normal people don't think to say those words because normal people rarely think about queers.

Sorry, BGS, but there it is.

2000---W
2004---W
2008---Palin
2012---Virgil Goode

You seem to act as if recounting who I voted for is a significant strain. Perhaps it is for you.

Reagan was the last good President. Arguably the greatest of the TwenCen. I can hear it now...'AMNESTY!!!' Unlike children, I don't believe politicians are Pure Righteousness. Reagan was a great man, but a man all the same. He made mistakes.

I gave the GOP until they tried to force Romney down my throat. I realized that they would rather lose with a Country Club RINO than win with a Conservative.

Now you can blame Jews. I tend to blame Yankees, and Big Businessmen, and Libertarians.

Its amusing. I'm 'Pure and Intellectual' here, but in other parts of these comments, I'm 'without principles'. The truth is, I'm am a hobbit in the Shire, and much of ya'll are dwarves.

Did all that shouting and screaming make you feel better? I think, that your god might hear you better, y'know, if you jumped up and down. Maybe got out a dagger and gashed yourself with it a bit. Just a little blood. Its for a good cause.

Jack,
You are well, sane. As for me being a linear thinker, I think thats something I'm not usually tasked with. I try to be disciplined and logical, but impetuous is more my nature.

Mostly, I try to let God guide me because this whole being self-disciplined thing is very hard. Easier to let someone smarter than me tell me what to do.

I reccomend you read 'Generations' the superior prequel to the more popular 'Fourth Generation' for an understanding of some of what makes history zig and zag.

Also, see 'On Strategy' by Luttwak.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Nothing stays the same.
---both statements, in their place, are true.

Blogger newanubis February 22, 2016 2:52 AM  

C'Mon Doc, that's funny.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 22, 2016 7:15 AM  

Instasetting wrote:The biggest, most important prize in the world is the American Conservative Movement.

What is this "Conservative Movement" that you speak of?

Where are their leaders, financiers, and propogandists?

You speak of the TEA Party, is it them? My recollections of TEA Party events was a studious avoidance of any issue but balancing the budget. Ditto the NRA, if it's not 2A; then they don't want to talk about it.

So the particular bunch of layabouts here think immigration is the issue that covers all of them and you start virtue signalling about God.

Guess what Spanky, the immigrants they are inviting in, hate your God.

If you are concern trolling about bad words, we love trolls around here.

If you fear your honor has been impuned, don't attack us while we are making ground on the opposition, then we won't call you bad names and question your manhood.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 22, 2016 7:39 AM  

Instasetting wrote:Also, see 'On Strategy' by Luttwak.

Luttwak, who dat? So I look for him in my handy "A History of Strategy" and he shows up under 'Further Reading', one book, published in 1986.

You might be too short for this ride. Try again, this time quote Sun Tzu.

Anonymous Instasetting February 22, 2016 8:05 AM  

Rusty,

40% of America claims to be Conservative. But you should have known this.

Skipping several questions....

Since Americans by Seventy Percent support Immigration Reform, and I support a very strict form of it, its doubtful that I'm virtue signalling against that.

Jack was talking about being a linear thinker. I was responding to that by in effect saying 'I can't see well enough often to be a linear thinker, so I often try to let him lead me by the hand.' Its not a statement of great strength. Its a confession of inadequacy.

You feel a desire to hear bad words? Look, just cuz I schooled whatshisname doesn't mean I'm a concern troll.

I highly reccommend that he dance and scream louder. Maybe his god is asleep. Maybe a little more slicing of the knife will get his god's attention.

Now, that's virtue signalling, by me, you dolt.

As to your ludricrous theory about honor, I shall have to reply as RSM did....no man gets to tell me when my honor is offended, or what the appropriate remedy is.

You might want to read Luttwak. He was pretty much the opposite of the linear thinker.
===============

This is depressing. But I suspect, instead of thinking 'bah, Fife and Snidely, what clowns', I should be satisfied. I merely stated the obvious facts of the situation. Arguing with what I said would be like arguing the Earth was not spherical.

Best of luck, guys.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 22, 2016 8:57 AM  

There is no base. The reason why conservatism is a lost cause is because even Doc admits that conservative today was yesterday's liberal. The base is a mob of leftward shifting moderates.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 22, 2016 9:18 AM  

Instasetting wrote:40% of America claims to be Conservative. But you should have known this.

I'll wager that each of those self identified conservatives were thinking of a particular issue when they did it: abortion, 2A, immigration, marriage, & etc.

Yes, some are Conservative on many of them; but few on all of them. @98 says "There is no base", this is why.

All this forum asks is that you stop sniping at the ones who don't agree with you about style or focus.

As for Luttwak, put up or shut up. What exact thing did he say in his opus that should be so enlightening to this readership. I'm kinda immune to being thumped with an unopened book; even ones that come from God.

Anonymous Instasetting February 22, 2016 10:01 AM  

98.
Step One. Denigrate the movement you want to take over.
Step Two. Target sub-sector of movement for expulsion.
Step Three. Take over movement.

Your version of Step One is to deny the existence of the elephant in the room, despite it sitting on top of you.

While they have some moderation, they're also the ones who won the gun battle, and have been fighting non-stop for thirty years against abortion.

Rusty,

You'd lose your money.

We have Libertarians who are 'low taxes, but gay marriage and abortion are ok', but they're not the Base.

You say sniping. I say accurately describing what is going on. Perhaps your lying will help you win, but its just as possible that you'll believe your own kool-aid, and go off a cliff.

I do try to restrain myself at times. If you see a party celebrating a pointless victory, its kind of rude to say so.

Luttwak embraced Sun Tzu's idea about formlessness. He proposed that victory by one side weakened that side, and strengthened the loser. Warfare was a matter of a pendulum swinging back and forth until one side eventually broke. The perfect weapon will only be used once because the enemy will be forced to spend all his effort searching for a defense, or the war is over. Its better to attack with too little time, too little ammo, and advance over difficult ground....if given the choice between a rough road over hills and a superhighway direct to your enemy's capital...take the rough road.

Now, you tried to move my goal posts. I was responding to Jack about linear thinking. Whether you agree with Luttwak, or not, or find him banal and obvious, its clear he is not a linear thinker.

That said, from my limited experience with Lind, he's better than Lind. Much more thought-provoking.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 22, 2016 10:49 AM  

Instasetting wrote:You say sniping. I say accurately describing what is going on.

Instasetting wrote:So much self-inflating nonsense.
Tarians, Altoid, Mc
= Sniping

Instasetting wrote:So much self-inflating nonsense.

Its just the blatant propaganda of the whole thing that is a bit galling.

This cheap propaganda...its mildly annoying and amusing for those of us in the know.

And maybe I show my lack of fire when I say, perhaps it is for the best that the Altoids cheat their way to the top.
Style not substance

This also militates your arguments WRT Luttwak. Which road is well traveled again, the one that's been followed since Wilson perhaps? Which ground is the "Instasetting wrote:rough road over hills and a superhighway direct to your enemy's capital"?

Which traitors is the Alt-right asking to be denounced?

Are you trying to defend the Cuckservatives?





OpenID sigbouncer February 22, 2016 11:40 AM  

"We had the same thing from Noted Conservative John McCain and his McCainiacs."

No you didn't. McCain was/is major league PTSD. Anyone who voted for him was a fucking idiot.

In '08 if you had half a brain, you wrote in Ron Paul.

Blogger AureliusMoner February 22, 2016 11:57 AM  

The other problem, is that American Conservatism is a left-wing movement (Classical Liberalism); it simply appears "right-wing" as compared to Communism, Socialism, etc. If we thought of Leftism as a runaway horse, American Conservatism would be the guy who has fallen off to one side, with his foot caught in the stirrup, his own head always trailing just a wee bit behind the horse's ass.

I also think he got his characterization of the groups (even with "at present" being stipulated), wrong. I would say:

Left: clannishness, narcissism, resentment (spite)

"Conservatives"(/Cuckservatives): propriety, personal ambition, approval-seeking (greed and/or sycophantry)

Libertarians: intellectual coulda-beens, radically individualistic (utopian)

Alt-right: too broad a term. Broken down...

Reactionaries: Tradition, ὁ καλός κ'ἀγαθός, Theonomy (actual Catholics)

NeoReactionaries: more or less irreligious persons, who realized the Reactionaries were right in their battle against the Apostasy, so far as a good polity goes (and hence praise tradition, meritocracy, hierarchy, out of utilitarian concerns), but who obviously don't view the Apostasy with the same eyes as an old-school Reactionary.

White-Nationalists/Fascists: proud, intellectually and spiritually adrift ("Rocco" from Boondock Saints) - this isn't to say that the other alt-right groups may not approve of an ethnically homogenous state (indeed, many would); this only describes those for whom the intellectual and spiritual pond goes no deeper than race purity with a bit of ad hoc neo-Paganism.

Traditionalists: Protestants, Jews, Pagans, even some few "spiritual but not religious" types, who understand the importance of honoring the Natural Law and the Transcendent, ordering both public and private life around it.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 22, 2016 12:10 PM  

AureliusMoner wrote:If we thought of Leftism as a runaway horse, American Conservatism would be the guy who has fallen off to one side, with his foot caught in the stirrup, his own head always trailing just a wee bit behind the horse's ass.

Very nice.

Scott Adams has a nice characterisation of influence:
Identity > feelings
Feelz > ideas
Ideas > definition

I'm beginning to embrace the strategy of Nationalism (identity) as the battleground.

Once an idividual identifies with his nation's people the International Left and International Corporatism lose.

Anonymous Instasetting February 22, 2016 12:29 PM  

Rusty,
'Self inflating' is accurate. I grant 'tarian and altoid' as snipes.

'cheap propaganda' and 'cheat' and all that is again accurate.

I will agree that the road since Wilson has been unfortunately well-travelled. And while I like Luttwak a bit, I also used Generations as an example of how history is non-linear. Luttwak is NOT an arguement against the alt-right, at least by me. He's an example of a creative thinker. So really, the thing with Luttwak is only between Amok and moi.

Traitors....WFB is probably chief Satan, oftentimes Reagan is up there, Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin......oh, George Will (although I get tempted to agree on this one).

We may have killed the horse, and are now beating its skeleton into dust. G'day.

=============

Sigbouncer,
To make sure its understood 'Noted Conservative' is sarcasm.

The Alt-Right and the McCainiacs both attacked the Conservatives by telling the Conservatives they were useless. If you doubt the Alt-Right has done this, I invite you to reread the comments to the op.

If you still disagree, I can only reiterate that the sky is blue, and let it drop, unless you come up with an actual arguement.

As to McCain having PTSD, very possible. I, along with the rest of the Conservatives, was not his friend. We were the ones being yelled and screamed at by the McCainiacs online. In fact, at one point, I said I'd vote for Hillary as an open enemy was better than a backstabbing enemy.

In any case, I did not vote for McCain. I voted for Sarah Palin and WhatsHisName. Unfortunately, the same RINO/Democrat Dirt Machine trashed Palin.

Now, the same guys have tried to trash Trump, and one of Trump's great selling points, IMO, is his ability to knock them back on their heels, and make them shut up.

And you wonder why Sarah Palin endorsed Trump....having your 'big brother' as it were, kick the snot out of the unrighteous scum who tormented you must be very sweet for
Sarah.

And you just show the very mechanic I explained....the Libertarians wanted to hijack the Conservatives to get them to vote for Ron Paul. Method...cheap slander.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 22, 2016 12:34 PM  

Instasetting is as pathetic, useless, Ghey and cucked as the Conservative Movement itself. Always has a reason handy for why he can't get it up, always ready to bend over for any smooth-talking pundit, so long as they tell him how smart and right he really is.
It's like the whole world really agrees with them, but doesn't know it. We just need to make the world see that they're really the principled, rational ones. As if they're secretly the kings of the whole world, if we racist bastards would just get with the program.

Blogger Rusty Fife February 22, 2016 12:59 PM  

@105 Instasetting

Answer the fucking question.

Rusty Fife wrote:

Which traitors is the Alt-right asking to be denounced?



Anonymous Instasetting February 22, 2016 1:10 PM  

I guess its as good a time as any.

Snidely, your brilliant insight has won out.

I don't imagine I'm secretly a king of the world. No, no, my space fleet has moved into the upper orbits, and will be destealthing within the hour.

If you live within a hundred miles of Washington DC, Moscow, Tokyo, Brussels, or Upper Kneebone Flatts, I, Your Imperial Master, advise you to take a moment to smell the roses, kiss your loved ones goodbye, get right with God, or shoot that neighbour you've always hated. You won't get a chance to do it later as the footprints of my ships are, well, rather large.

Other details to follow...


Anonymous Instasetting February 22, 2016 1:13 PM  

Rusty, I already did.

OpenID sigbouncer February 22, 2016 1:13 PM  

The alt-right attacks are geared towards the establishment on the whole. As conservative Republicans are pretty much non existent these days. You don't even have a true (conservative) candidate in the race.

The biggest problem with self identified conservatives is that they cannot be trusted... As Vox alluded to in the OP.

McCain supporters were just complete idiots. McCain can't stand the tea party, yet he chose Palin as his Veep. The guy was and is a self walking talking contradiction. McCain might be borderline too. I'd like to know the meds this guy is taking on a daily basis.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 22, 2016 1:15 PM  

@instasetting, and you wonder why people don't like you

Blogger Rusty Fife February 22, 2016 1:37 PM  

Instasetting wrote:Traitors....WFB is probably chief Satan, oftentimes Reagan is up there, Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin......oh, George Will (although I get tempted to agree on this one).

Are you upset that some people are annoyed at, WFB for example, for throwing them out of the party for not being "proper anti-communists"?

I'm sorry our behavior sours your martini while attending all those cocktail parties with the "proper" Conservatives.

Anonymous Instasetting February 22, 2016 1:45 PM  

Sigbouncer,
I clearly don't completely agree with your first para. I'm also getting tired.

From Vox's point, I have to admit the justice of this. I see him as trying to harden up his initial cadre, and then moving forward with the plan I outlined.

Its not that they don't have principles. They do need to learn how to attack, and not just defend.

We had our Lt. Gov trying to allow guns in the state capital in Tennessee. Now our Gov Haslam is a RINO, and did not like it. Didn't work out, but thats a start in the right direction.

I think the McCainiacs made a reasonable if disgusting political calculation. We hate them, but we need them, so we will trash them.

As to Palin, I think McCain has some actual political talent. He knew he was toast, and that the Base hated him. He could have tried some small little gifts to persuade, but he wisely realized the value of an Overwhelming Gift in reconciling.

Later, influenced by RINOS and his own jealousy, he let her be trashed, and that along with other bad decisions cost him the election.

Snidely, I'm an Omega. Worse, I tend to be honest.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 22, 2016 2:09 PM  

You're an Omega like I'm an otter.
Honest, probably, I've no reason to doubt that. Wrong, horribly horribly wrong, but honest.

Blogger Doc Rampage February 23, 2016 12:24 AM  

VFM #6306 wrote:There is no base. The reason why conservatism is a lost cause is because even Doc admits that conservative today was yesterday's liberal. The base is a mob of leftward shifting moderates.
Only if by "yesterday" you mean the 18th and 19th Centuries. The dignity of all men, the right to the pursuit of happiness by way of economic and social freedom, the government as a servant of the people rather than a master; these are the liberal principles that were embraced by the founding fathers and are still embraced by conservative today. None of this is new and it is not in any sense "between" Left and Right.

In part that's because "Right" has been warped by the Left that doesn't mean anything except "opposed to the Left".

1. Nazi: gun-controlling, economy-controlling, genocidal, anti-Christian, and totalitarian.

2. Classical liberal/conservative: 2nd Amendment, free enterprise, anti-genocide, religiously neutral, pursuit-of-happiness.

3. Communist: gun-controlling, economy-controlling, genocidal, anti-religion, and totalitarian.

There is no rational way to view #2 as ideologically between #1 and #3. It's a complete lie.

It's also a fiction that political positions shifted over time. What they did was swap. The white racists discovered a gullible voting pool among non-whites so they became anti-white racists to appeal to this voting pool. The conservatives stayed pretty much where they were and the haters just swapped sides.

Blogger JaimeInTexas February 23, 2016 8:07 AM  

Why, then, the need to coin the new term: paleo-conservatism?

Blogger JaimeInTexas February 23, 2016 8:15 AM  

Who was it that said: The democrat party wants to grow the govertnment at 65MPH, the republican party at 55MPH?

Blogger JaimeInTexas February 23, 2016 8:21 AM  

The split in the republican party onto libertarians and conservatives ocurred on the late '40s, early '50s.

Wm. F. Buckley was the one that consolidated the split by the purging out of the conservative movement the intellectuals who kept insisting on remembering the non-interventionist roots of conservatism. Hence, the paleo prefix became a necessity.

Blogger JaimeInTexas February 23, 2016 8:28 AM  

We have got to accept Big Government for the duration-for neither an offensive nor a defensive war can be waged, given our present government skills, except through the instrument of a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores. … And if they deem Soviet power a menace to our freedom (as I happen to), they will have to support large armies and air forces, atomic energy, central intelligence, war production boards, and the attendant centralization of power in Washington-even with Truman at the reins of it all.

William F. Buckley, Jr.

Anonymous Fox Hunter February 24, 2016 2:17 AM  

Well Mike Huckabee was the real social conservative before he shut down his campaign, he was the only one who seemed willing to disobey scotus on the sodomite "marriage". But now Ted Cruz is the most conservative candidate socially and economically. Trump is not a conservative, he is a liberal, he is liberal on abortion, on sodomites, and obamacare. The biggest problem with Trump is that he you can't trust him, he changes his mind way too much and he has no record of ever being conservative socially or economically. The problem with the Republican party is that many economic/fiscal conservatives/libertarians hate the social conservatives and are doing everything they can to remove or marginalize the Christian conservatives and social conservatives. Just look at the "example" of the "failure" of conservapedia posted above. Sorry, but man and dinosaurs did live side by side, that is what the Bible says. And there are many non-Christian sources that show this as well.

Unfortunately there are also social conservatives who refuse to accept that socialism and big govt are immoral and bad for social conservatism in general. Sodomite coddling and abortion exist because of big govt. The sodomites and baby killers would not be in the position they are now without big govt.

Bottom line, economic/fiscal conservatives and libertarians should stop trying to destroy the social conservatives. the real enemies are the liberals, socialists and secular humanists, and all social conservatives should abandon socialism and big govt. A Christian minarchy with zero taxes would be best system.

Anonymous Instasetting February 24, 2016 9:11 AM  

Fox, there's one thing this site has taught me. You're essentially right, but they will interpret a polite statement of fact with supplicating. You need to sharpen your sword, and draw some blood.

Good fortune!

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