Saturday, May 14, 2016

No room for refugees

Pitying poor refugees and granting them sanctuary in large numbers is always a mistake. Wikipedia on the Gothic War of 376-382.
In the summer of 376, a massive number of Goths arrived on the Danube River, the border of the Roman Empire, requesting asylum from the Huns. They came in two distinct groups: the Thervings led by Fritigern and Alavivus, and the Greuthungi led by Alatheus and Saphrax. Eunapius states their number as 200,000 including civilians, but Peter Heather estimates that the Thervings may have had only 10,000 warriors and 50,000 people in total, with the Greuthungi about the same size. The Cambridge Ancient History places modern estimates at around 90,000 people total.

The Goths sent ambassadors to the Eastern Roman Emperor Valens requesting permission to settle their people inside the Empire....

Many Goths inside Roman territory joined Fritigern, as did assorted slaves, miners, and prisoners. Roman garrisons in fortified towns held out, but those outside of them were easy prey. The Goths created a vast wagon train to hold all the loot and supplies pillaged from the Roman countryside, and they had much rage against the Roman population for what they had endured. Those who had started as starving refugees had transformed into a powerful army.
34 years later, Rome was sacked by Alaric. The same thing is going to happen to various cities in the USA and Europe if the "poor refugees" are not expelled from the West within the next 15-20 years.

But if your society collapses amidst ethnic violence, at least you can console yourselves with the knowledge that no one called you racist.

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Blogger Cecil Henry May 14, 2016 12:32 PM  

They call you 'racist' because they are attacking your race.

They call you 'racist' because they hate your race and intend to control and destroy you. You are not meant to have any rights.

They call you 'racist' because they are explicitly denying you any racial interests or right to exist.

They call you 'racist' because anti-racist = anti-white.

Blogger tz May 14, 2016 12:35 PM  

Unseen invisigoths?

Anonymous Steve Brown VFM May 14, 2016 12:36 PM  

Socrates also was wise, but governments are not (or it would seem so).

Blogger Avraham May 14, 2016 12:39 PM  

I love reading about Roman history but I was unaware of this aspect. I am surprised that I missed it.

Blogger Jon M May 14, 2016 12:46 PM  

Why surprised? Seems like perfect fodder for the court historians' memory hole.

Blogger Zaklog the Great May 14, 2016 12:46 PM  

Yeah, I noticed this parallel to our current situation a while ago. Unfortunately, far too many today do not know anything about history and are apparently doomed to repeat it.

Anonymous FafiSoccer May 14, 2016 12:55 PM  

I disagree Vox. I have watched many murder trials, even concerning the murder of "anti-racists" and quite often the youth murderer still called the victim a racist.

To the victor belongs the spoils. You will be called a racist anyway.

Blogger Lazarus May 14, 2016 12:55 PM  

Avraham wrote:I love reading about Roman history but I was unaware of this aspect. I am surprised that I missed it.

Here is a freebie from Project Gutenberg

The History of Rome, Volume 1-5 by Theodor Mommsen

Also interesting : Rome and Jerusalem: The Clash of Ancient Civilizations by Martin Goodman (not free)

Blogger Viisaus May 14, 2016 12:57 PM  

"The Cambridge Ancient History places modern estimates at around 90,000 people total."

I am annoyed by these modern rationalist historians who are obsessed to belittle the numbers given by ancient sources. Edward Gibbon, by contrast, compared the horde of Goths who crossed Danube to the million-strong army of Xerxes that invaded Greece:

"A large fleet of vessels, of boats, and of canoes, was provided; many days and nights they passed and repassed with indefatigable toil; and the most strenuous diligence was exerted by the officers of Valens that not a single barbarian, of those who were reserved to subvert the foundations of Rome, should be left on the opposite shore. It was thought expedient that an accurate account should be taken of their numbers; but the persons who were employed soon desisted, with amazement and dismay, from the prosecution of the endless and impracticable task;(67) and the principal historian of the age most seriously affirms that the prodigious armies of Darius and Xerxes, which had so long been considered as the fables of vain and credulous antiquity, were now justified, in the eyes of mankind, by the evidence of fact and experience. A probable testimony has fixed the number of the Gothic warriors at two hundred thousand men; and if we can venture to add the just proportion of women, of children, and of slaves, the whole mass of people which composed this formidable emigration must have amounted to near a million of persons, of both sexes and of all ages."

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 14, 2016 1:06 PM  

But, but, muh magicae terra!

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 14, 2016 1:07 PM  

But, but, muh magicae terra!

Anonymous Faceless May 14, 2016 1:15 PM  

Avraham wrote:I love reading about Roman history but I was unaware of this aspect. I am surprised that I missed it.

They ran out of Italians, and the machinery of assimilation ceased to function.

When Julius Caesar crossed the Rhine, the iron eagle was unopposed. Germanicus was so important that his son, Caligula, would ascend to the throne.

When Trajan set his eye to Dacia a hundred years later, he subjugated the land, but he could not pacify the people. It took as many troops or more to hold Dacia as it did to hold Syria.

Another century, with more refugees pouring in from Asia to occupy land north of the Rhone, with Dacia as the buffer state, and suddenly, the Romans are paying tribute to the warlords to keep peace on the northern bank of the river.

They ran out of Italians. New arrivals stopped wanting to be Roman, and they resented taxes and military service to the Empire. The Romans had to dismember their lands and give such jewels as Hispania away as tribute to try to survive, and then, eventually, they ran out of things to give away in the west to buy off these refugees-turned-conquerors.

Anonymous Faceless May 14, 2016 1:18 PM  

Apologies. Danube.

Blogger Harry Spitz May 14, 2016 1:38 PM  

I do not think it is so much a matter of 'no room' but 'no benefits.' Immigration is meant to benefit the nation and its citizens.

These people bring nothing with them that we need or want.
We don't need to populate frontiers, nor do we have factories crying out for cheap unskilled labor.
The bring no capital, and no special skills or talents.
In short they displace our own citizens in the job market or become burdens on the taxpayers.
The problems are self evident before you consider the 'refugees'' hostile and dangerous culture.

Anyone who wants to admit these people to the US is NOT acting in the best interests of the Nation or its Citizens.

Blogger Avraham May 14, 2016 2:01 PM  

Thank you Lazarus and faceless for your reply. I find this very interesting and I find the parallel to today's situation in the USA and in Europe and also the Ukraine where similar events are occurring disturbing.

Blogger Cinco May 14, 2016 2:07 PM  

They call you racist because with an average IQ of 87 it's all they can muster. You must secretly plot against them, it can't be inferior genetics, it just can't be. This is why you almost never see Asians playing the race card. The only exception to the rule is the Jews, and they aren't playing the race card as much as the victim card.

Blogger The Z Blog May 14, 2016 2:43 PM  

The Romans had been resettling barbarians into Roman lands for centuries. There was nothing novel about the Goths seeking refuge in the Empire. The difference this time was the Rome was already weak and instead of following the customary practice of spreading the barbarians around the Empire, they allowed the Goths to settle in concentration. This was one of the hundreds of errors the Romans made that led to the collapse of the Western Empire.

Even with this blunder, the Romans could have managed the problem, but the absence of anything resembling competent leadership after Theodosius made past mistakes into lethal mistakes.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier May 14, 2016 2:46 PM  

Is there any data as to the birthrates of the native Roman population? I know there is anecdotal descriptions of decadence and a decrease in interest in future generations, but I'm curious if there are hard numbers about a decrease in the production of Italians or if it was more that the empire had just gotten too large.

I should make more time to read more detailed history.

Blogger bob k. mando May 14, 2016 2:58 PM  

18. Thomas Davidsmeier May 14, 2016 2:46 PM
or if it was more that the empire had just gotten too large.


sustained reproduction *above replacement rate* is a geometric curve. the more Romans there are, the easier it becomes to produce more Romans.

provided the women keep bearing children.

once women stop bearing children at / above replacement rate, civilizational collapse becomes almost inevitable.

due to child mortality, replacement rate back then was probably around 4 children.

Anonymous Godfrey May 14, 2016 3:04 PM  

The global elites are using refugees and immigrants as shock troops against the middleclass. They perceive the middleclass as independent and thus an impediment to their plans for humanity.

The Left? There just useful idiots controlled and manipulated by the ruling classes.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 May 14, 2016 3:08 PM  

I doubt Asians would be able to hold, say the Bay area very long as the various sects return to each other's throats after purging the white man. No group will have the numbers before the collapse. Blacks have the numbers but not the organizational skills and they certainly won't weather EBT being shut off. Mexicans might make a go of it in the Southwest, but I suspect they will find the Cartels will rip right through them without whitey keeping them in check.

Anonymous Steed May 14, 2016 3:15 PM  

1. Wiki: `` ...the Romans in charge accepted brides to allow the Goths to retain their weapons...`` I read as a child that the Romans did take the Goths` weapons but later sold them back to the Goths. 2. I wonder if Lupicinus ever said something like, `` If they are hungry then let them eat cac!`` rather like a corrupt Indian Agent said touching off the Great Sioux War of 1863. 3. Once a old WW2 vet told me that after the war that there were looter gangs made up of German criminals and eastern refugees running wild across rural Germany. The Allies did nothing until their bases were raided and then took care of biz. I thought at the time he was senile or telling me a tall tale.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 14, 2016 3:23 PM  

I thought Gibbon's treatment of this fascinating, translated, Rome had SJW as well.

I love the comment up above, classic, if only later Rome had its Section 8 program in order then Magic Dirt would really work this time.

Thought experiment, let us breed in incubators a billion whiter than white whites with IQs well north of 100 and spread them around Africa and bet if Africa remains Africa. Or would Africa be so great that Big Gay Steve would move there? You decide.

Anonymous Steed May 14, 2016 3:32 PM  

@23 Speaking of Magic Dirt, how about someone with the gifts write a song and set it to Americas` 1982 tune `You Can Do Magic` as a parody.

Blogger Elder Son May 14, 2016 3:32 PM  

Anyone who wants to admit these people to the US is NOT acting in the best interests of the Nation or its Citizens.

That is the whole point. You will have your borderless global world order whether you like it or not. And the posterity of the future will eventually learn, after much bloodshed, to assimilate/copulate.

Look, all roads lead back to Babel.

Blogger RobertT May 14, 2016 4:08 PM  

Caesar cemented his reputation fighting off Germanic incursions in Gaul. By the skin of his teeth. In 55bc he slaughtered 430,000 men women & children.

"Caesar described the cultural differences between the Germanic tribesmen, the Romans, and the Gauls. He said that the Gauls, although warlike, could be civilized, but the Germanic tribesmen were far more savage and were a threat to Roman Gaul and so had to be conquered."

Veni, vidi, vici.

Anonymous Clay May 14, 2016 6:20 PM  

Let the Sackings begin. I hope to see it in my lifetime.

Blogger Mint May 14, 2016 6:55 PM  

There are many refugees camp in Indonesia coming from Islam countries for years after years. But Indonesia is not their final destination. They always, always, always seeking refuge to the nearest white majority place: Australia. Despite Indonesia is more accomodating to them in term of culture, religion and all. They travel that far away to a continent with a culture so different from their own you think their religion will make them think twice before they settle their women and children in kufar land. But no. They brave the sea danger, stranded in Indonesia unwillingly for years. To live in White Australia. One time when Indonesia and Australian relation worsen, Indonesia president threaten to open and let loose the sea patrols to free the stream of refugee to Australia. Unwise, in my opinion, but powerful words.

Anonymous rubberducky May 14, 2016 7:17 PM  

Rome had been battled with barbarians for quite some time. The experience of Marcus Aurelius has it all in a nutshell. He spent the last half of his reign dealing with the Germanic tribes who were coming everywhere, even into Italy. After years of military campaigning, he made peace with them and allowed settlement, even in Italy. To repay him, they seized and sacked Ravenna. Aurelius then decreed a total ban and began the process of expelling them all from the empire. Then, seeing Aurelius bogged down in the West, revolts arose in the East. So, a natural competition for time and resources began between the Western empire and the Eastern empire. The East had the big trade routes. They were always deemed more important.

Anonymous keener May 14, 2016 7:48 PM  

But I don't believe that the Roman commoners were allowed arms. It was an unarmed population. If they got overrun they had to sit and wait until the Legions showed up. Long wait.

Anonymous The OASF May 14, 2016 8:36 PM  

They will still call you racist, and asign you the blame.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 14, 2016 9:05 PM

Blogger Ahazuerus May 15, 2016 2:14 AM  

Reuters reports that the SAT testing system used for international college students is broken, and since the problems have been well known for years, it seems it is deliberately broken.

So academics also believe they benefit from importing foreignes ... why am I not surprised at this betrayal?

Blogger Viisaus May 15, 2016 3:04 AM  

"But I don't believe that the Roman commoners were allowed arms. It was an unarmed population. If they got overrun they had to sit and wait until the Legions showed up. Long wait."

You are correct. See here:

"In responding to Persian might in the 3rd century, the Romans had created a brittle frontier system extending for thousands of miles. All civilians behind that line were unarmed, and their towns and cities were unwalled. It was a full generation (430CE) after the initial trans-Rhine and Italian Gothic invasions that civilians were, by imperial edict, permitted to carry weapons. It's worth pointing out that the era between Pompeii's suppression of the pirates in the mid-first century BCE and the fall of Carthage to the Vandals in 439CE is the longest period of Mediterranean safety in its history. Thus professionalization of security in the empire, and its reallocation to face its most grave danger (the Sassanids), had left huge economically-productive areas to prosper ... but they were also extremely vulnerable to even casual predation."

Blogger Viisaus May 15, 2016 3:08 AM  

When days matter, legions are years away.

Anonymous Contaminated NEET May 15, 2016 4:31 AM  

>you can console yourselves with the knowledge that no one called you racist.

Ha! They won't even give you that. They will call you racist constantly even as you allow them to destroy you.

Anonymous Pneutral May 15, 2016 7:35 AM  

The danger should be even more obvious. The Mohammedans have Mohammad's example as how to behave as refugees.
When he left Mecca for Medina, (The date which marks the beginning of the Mohammedan calendar. AH is after the migration) he did so saying he needed to escape persecution of his as a refugee.
As he became settled and the numbers of his followers grew, he became progressively more belligerent. There were 3 Jewish tribes in Medina. The first was just exiled by him. By the time we get to the last one and he had less to fear, he simply slaughtered the men and enslaved the women and children.
As Frank Herbert said "“When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles.”

Anonymous Rhetoric Man May 15, 2016 11:19 AM  

"The same thing is going to happen to various cities in the USA and Europe if the "poor refugees" are not expelled from the West within the next 15-20 years."

Excerpt the immigrants locating to the States aren't observably "Goths", and that the majority of whites aren't believers nor defenders of "Western Civilization". Why should they be, they're Americans.

Anonymous Clay May 16, 2016 1:12 AM  

Actually, they are only a few hours away, these days.

Mebbe less.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY May 16, 2016 4:04 AM  

I can't wait to give some of these hapless fucks the ass-stompin' they truly deserve. Yeah, you sorry assed yankee fucks, that means you. Don't likee ? don't care.

Anonymous Mr. Rational May 16, 2016 9:11 AM  

@40 I begin to see why my nothern (not Yankee) ancestors might have voted for Lincoln in 1860, and for Reconstruction afterward.  Insufferable, arrogant behavior like that just doesn't play well up here.

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