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Tuesday, July 26, 2016

Conservatism in ruins

Andrew Klavan's first thoughts on rebuilding conservatism:
The conservative movement has collapsed and is in ruins. Its vehicle for political expression, the Republican Party, is now in the hands of an authoritarian nationalist who has never read the Constitution and does not believe in free expression, free trade or the separation of powers. Its central vehicle for expression in the news media is in disarray as Fox News becomes embroiled in scandal. Even its defenders on talk radio and in the blogosphere are severely at odds as they are forced to choose whether to defend Trump as the lesser of two evils or to stand fast with the founding fathers against both terrible sides.
The conservative movement has collapsed and lies in ruins. And it has done so due to the deceit and dishonesty of conservative commentators like Andrew Klavan, who apparently feel the need to make provably false statements about everyone from Donald Trump to the Founding Fathers.

Let's look at the three false statements in this one diagnostic paragraph alone:
  1. Donald Trump is not an authoritarian.
  2. Fox News has never been a central vehicle for expressing conservative views. It has, rather, pushed neoconnery as nominal conservatism while serving as a politically moderate alternative to the hard progressivism of the ABCNNBCBS cabal.
  3. The Founding Fathers believed in trade protectionism and a white America. Whether he gives a damn about the US Constitution or not, Donald Trump has as much or more in common with the Founding Fathers as the conservative movement does. The Constitution exists only to safeguard the unalienable rights of white Americans who are the posterity of the Founding Fathers, that is its sole purpose.
Now let's look at Klavan's proposal for rebuilding conservatism, which strangely enough, he provides without ever considering just why the movement is in ruins.
1. There is no substitute for victory. A political philosophy should be an outgrowth of moral values but it is not a moral value in itself. Its purpose is not to be good; its purpose is to be as good as it can be and still win power. A Christian may count it a victory when he is devoured by lions for his faith, but a conservative who is repeatedly devoured by the opposition in elections is just a self-satisfied schmuck. I am completely opposed to those — like Ross Douthat and Reihan Salam — who essentially argue  that conservatives must win by becoming watered-down liberals. But clearly, the methods by which we have been selling our philosophy to the voters have not just failed but failed utterly, and we should rethink them.
True enough, and yet Klavan observably knows so little about the history of conservatism in America that he doesn't understand that conservatives have never had a philosophy proper. He obviously hasn't read Russell Kirk, anyhow. That's why they can't sell conservatism to anyone anymore; it doesn't even exist as a coherent self-contained philosophy. Conservatives have never been much more than philosophical parasites on the Left. Klavan should read Cuckservative; if nothing else it would bring him up to speed on the intellectual inadequacies of conservatism.
2. Win what minority types we can with the truth. The opposition likes to point out that too many conservatives are white men. They're right — but only because blacks and women have been successfully sold a destructive bill of goods in leftist racialism and feminism. The facts are: black people are not oppressed by the police, women are not underpaid for the same work, white privilege is a destructive and racist myth, and true freedom means people you don't like are going to say things you disagree with in ways you find offensive. These are hard sayings but they need to be said, and they don't need to be said by conservatives to other conservatives, they need to be said by conservatives to blacks, women and sexual off-beats of all stripes. The Democrats have co-opted these people with destructive lies that make their lives worse. We can't win them back by jumping on that bandwagon. We need to proudly, unapologetically (and politely) tell it like it is — to them, in their neighborhoods and organizations. We won't win a lot of them. Not at first. But facts have a way of getting through over time — if you speak them courageously without being a jackass about it.
This is remarkable. And it's a tactic doomed to failure; conservatives like Klavan can't win anyone with the truth for the obvious reason that they don't know the truth. They religiously subscribe to the idiotic lie of the Proposition Nation and they attempt to win over minorities that will never, ever, be won over in significant percentages by the alien ideals of 18th century whites. Klavan can't explain historical anomalies that puncture his precious Ellis Island myth like the 1790 Naturalization Act, which means he can't tell it like it is because he doesn't actually know what it is.

The alternative is that he does know what it is and he is knowingly deceiving his fellow conservatives. But I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he is merely ignorant.
3. Fight the culture wars in the culture. The culture wars are problematical because too often conservatives come across as anti-freedom or bigoted. That makes victory tough. I feel passionately about some cultural issues and indifferent to others, but I believe all of them should be fought on a cultural and informational level rather than a political one. For instance, I believe that abortion is the taking of a human life and that government therefore has a right to forbid it. But just speaking bluntly and honestly, I don't think I can win that fight in the political arena right now. Happily, the truth may do what politics cannot. The truth is on my side and the more the truth gets out about what abortion looks like, how it's done, and who the people who support it are, the more the public will know that it is unacceptable. Then we can win politically. As for sex issues, I confess I care not at all about other people's sexuality (I'm so deeply immersed in my own), but I do care very deeply about religious liberty and the freedom not to participate in what you abhor. That's a fight we can win and we should argue it everywhere as a freedom issue.
Correct concept, inept execution. Winning the culture war is NOT getting the truth out. It is rhetorically convincing others what the truth is. This is why the arts are the most vitally important battleground in the cultural war.
4. Some class occasionally would be nice. Conservatives have been all but banned from universities, the news media and show business. In response, we formed our own media in blogs, talk radio and Fox. Those are great venues for informing our own, but we could use some outreach to open-minded Democrats. I've wasted too much breath trying to convince conservatives that art is good and can change the world over time. They just won't believe me. But could we maybe agree that screaming at people and calling them evil and talking like a belligerent loudmouth know-it-all is not always the best way to bring them over to your side? No, huh. Well, it was just a thought.
For fuck's sake. He's another hapless tone policeman. This is why the Alt Right is going to win; because we don't give a quantum of a damn about "class". Someone once told me the important thing was "to win with grace and style". No, the important thing is to win, even if you have to get bloody and dirty in the process. Klavan, like a good conservative, is far more interested in going down to noble defeat and surrendering while wearing a nice clean uniform than he is with winning.
It very much looks to me right now as if Trump is going to lose this election on pure incompetence and mean spirit. That might actually make it easier for conservatives to regroup in the ruins of the Republican Party. If he wins, we may need a new party of our own. But whichever way things go, I think we need to open a discussion about how conservatives can not only remain conservative but also win elections in modern America.
Is he even watching the political conventions? This sort of wishful thinking is why no one should bother paying any attention to a cuckservative like Klavan now or in the future. Conservatism is dying. Its diseased remnants are flocking to the progressives, as we always knew they would. And we watch them go with dry eyes and a grim smile, because we don't need a bunch of useless cucks and moderates who were always happier shooting at their own side than the enemy.

I have never been a conservative. I will never be a conservative. I am delighted to see the conservative movement crumbling into dust. Conservatives conserve nothing, accomplish nothing, and stand for nothing. They will not defend the Church, they will not defend America, and they will not defend the West.

The Alt Right will. Join us, if you have the steel.

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266 Comments:

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Blogger dfordoom July 26, 2016 9:32 PM  

@103. Bob Loblaw

He's right about this. Politics follows culture - if you lose in the culture you will lose the politics within a decade or two. What we have done in recent past is cede the culture as irrelevant and then try to fight the uphill political battle on prepared enemy ground.

Entirely correct.

It has to be admitted that the overall strategy behind cultural marxism was absolutely brilliant and it has been extraordinarily successful.

When you can to a very large extent control what people read, what they will see on television, what kind of movies they will watch, then you have pretty much total control of that society. If you have the schools and universities as well then you do have total control. The political process then becomes entirely irrelevant.

Conservatives unfortunately have shown zero interest in actually fighting the culture wars in the culture.

Blogger clk July 26, 2016 9:38 PM  

I cant even think of something to say here -- this thread is in such shambles .. But going to the original thought -- the fact is that the Republican party has never really had much to offer most of its followers and I am surprised that it took this look for "conservatives" to realize this .. its an elitist group that prays on it members with a promise of someday you might be rich.. a political pyramid scheme.

We have needed a right Christian labor party that represented the lower classes for a long time, the workers, families, Christian values .... I don't think that Trump will be the guy that makes this happen, but all of this has really has shown that a two party system is not whats needed today ... we need a party to right and to the left of the main parties.. the rich and corporations have way too much power now...

Anonymous Mister M July 26, 2016 9:39 PM  

"When did the voices of "conservatism" become such intellectual lightweights?"

Murray Rothbard answers that question in great detail in "The Betrayal of the American Right".

Blogger Pseudotsuga July 26, 2016 9:45 PM  

"There was a fantastic interview with a swedish woman on red ice radio talking about the old gods and how they fit Sweden better cause they gave role models to the people. A mother goddess, a warrior god and so forth. Christianity gives us a father figure and nothing else."

Ah, liberal paganism strikes again. That's not the Old Religion as she was practiced with blood and sword. What you give there is the modern touchy-feely Kumbayah paganism-is-matriarchy version which gives good feelz to modern "practitioners." My pagan Norse ancestors wouldn't recognize the version of their religion you cite here.
You should take the time to read the actual history based on documents (rather than ideology, which is not found much in today's college world, I am afraid) instead of the revisionist histories (which basically are a People's History of Paganism) or the New Age practitioners and their romantic anti-Christianity. Ronald Hutton's works are good place to start--he's pretty accessible and he writes in English.

"Christianity was the first step to install the big father idea into people which at some point evolved into big father-state."
I think you perhaps have Christianity misspelled. Did you mean "Communism" or "Confucianism" instead? Both of them match your definition better.

Blogger Thucydides July 26, 2016 9:58 PM  

The real irony, which most of you probably appreciate, is what "Conservatives" are actually crying for (in their incoherent way) is Classical Liberalism, as enumerated by enlightenment scholars and philosophers such as Edmond Burke, Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson.

Individual rights, unfettered use of property and the Rule of Law are the three foundational elements of Classical Liberalism, all of which have been compromised in varying ways by what passes for current "Conservatives". Progressives have stolen and redefined the word "Liberal" to mean the opposite of what it actually means.

The one place where I do respectfully disagree with Vox is the idea of a "proposition nation". IF people who are coming to establish a nation live by the three foundational principles of Classical Liberalism, then they will be able to fully function as productive members of that nation. I will concede that most of the waves of immigrants since the founding of America have NOT followed or accepted the tenants of Classical Liberalism, which explains the true problem we are facing today.

Blogger newanubis July 26, 2016 10:13 PM  

By ' major revision' you can't possibly be meaning a Re-write, can you?

No, all that needs to happen is for it to be followed.

And to be followed it must be taught to our progeny not maligned or dismissed as is current.

Blogger newanubis July 26, 2016 10:17 PM  

Indeed. The psywars are far more effective as they're the rudder by which the guns are steered/pointed.

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra July 26, 2016 10:30 PM  

We must promote the (expert styled rolled out case studies) books like SJWAL and CUCKS constantly. Our Alt Right is done with the nullsense.

https://www.amazon.com/Cuckservative-How-Conservatives-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B018ZHHA52/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1462476678&sr=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=cuck+vox+day

https://www.amazon.com/SJWs-Always-Lie-Taking-Thought/dp/9527065682?ie=UTF8&qid=1445676110&ref_=tmm_pap_swatch_0&sr=8-1

All the failed narratives are doc'ed or documented meanwhile Cucks, SJWAL and the neoconnery (nice to see that term picked up) are ashen or over with.

Regarding content, its time to withdraw consent from cable tv providers unless its sports which is all online - I never did tv for cable and ended my landline months ago, I have zero time for cable tv or landline henhouses, frick it.

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra July 26, 2016 10:32 PM  

Great the DNC and RNC is still viewed as absurd!

Most people stateside cannot even find or rec or regconise the truth because the propaganda and predictive programming of "obey, fear, shop, consume, fear, obey," is all they know, its a nations of lost people, lost generation.

(Obvious Vengeful One ref to music video)

Blogger Were-Puppy July 26, 2016 10:35 PM  

@181 Mister M
I used to read VD Hanson's column.
--

He's written some good ancient history books - which I enjoyed.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 26, 2016 10:36 PM  

Modern paganism, with it's "sky-clad" whores and sex magick would have been exterminated by my Pagan Irish ancestors. They burned homosexuals, adulteresses and other petty criminals alive to satisfy the bloodlust of Crom Cruach.

"Christianity was the first step to install the big father idea into people which at some point evolved into big father-state."

Absolutely 100% false. The "Sky Father" is an Indo-European concept, an archetype, predating our ancestors' move into South Asia and Europe. The Sky Father is common to all ancient and classical Indo-European cultures. It was not invented by Christianity.

European Paganism NEVER had a feminine equivalent to Odin, the all-Father, or Deus-Pater (God Father, aka Iupiter) or Zeus (Zeus just means God). All pagan pantheons are headed by a father god, who has absolute dominion over humanity, over the realms of the Gods, and ESPECIALLY over the female gods.

The point of all Classical mythology is that your doom is your doom. you can fight it, but it will do no good.

Learn actual paganism rather than the pap you've been fed if you want to comment intelligently. If not, go back to your neo-pagan circle-jerk.

Thucydides wrote:The one place where I do respectfully disagree with Vox is the idea of a "proposition nation". IF people who are coming to establish a nation live by the three foundational principles of Classical Liberalism, then they will be able to fully function as productive members of that nation. I will concede that most of the waves of immigrants since the founding of America have NOT followed or accepted the tenants of Classical Liberalism, which explains the true problem we are facing today.

What if, just as a speculation, mind you, those other people weren't capable of living in a White society, had no interest in conforming to the cultural standards of White society, and by their very presence are disruptive to a peaceful and ordered society?

And in a proposition nation, what do you do with members who reject your proposition? Keeping in mind that at least a substantial minority have done so in this country. Drive them out? Disenfranchise them? Imprison them?

Blogger Marie July 26, 2016 10:41 PM  

Nothing makes me want Trump to win and turn into the Evil King everyone fears more than reading this tripe from a worthless "conservative."

Sitting there acting like his hands are clean and this is all the left's fault. YOU SOLD US OUT. You failed to act. Now it is our turn so get out of the way.

You refused to protect your children. You don't get a say in what happens to mine.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 26, 2016 10:42 PM  

newanubis wrote:By ' major revision' you can't possibly be meaning a Re-write, can you?

No, all that needs to happen is for it to be followed.

And to be followed it must be taught to our progeny not maligned or dismissed as is current.

And how do you, an ordinary citizen, force them to follow the Constitution? Over the last 5 decades the 3 branches of Government have colluded to increase their own power, reduce their own accountability, and end all limitations of the power of the Federal Government.
What is the constitutional remedy?

Blogger John Wright July 26, 2016 10:45 PM  

@142
"For entertainments sake, just ask a self-identified conservative what it is about "the way things are" that he wants to conserve? Confusion will result."

If and only if the conservative knows no history, cannot define his terms,and accepts your silly straw man definition of his position.

What conservatives what to concerve, in places where it still exists, is civilization. What we want to impose where it does not exist is civilization. What we want to return to places where it has been lost is civilization.

Civilization is a comples thing, but it has these seven ideas and four historic roots in common:

Concervatives hold that truth is true, that virtue is good, tha beauty is real, that reason is valid, that all men are created equal ergo are to be judged by merit, not by birth, nor trusted with absolute power. We believe salvation comes from Christ, not Caesar.

Historically, we defend the religious vision of Jerusalem, the philosophy of Athens, the republican ideals of Rome, and the common law of the English speaking people.

We wish to preserve all the Left is vowed to destroy and regrow all they hace raized, raped, obliterated and burned.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 26, 2016 11:15 PM  

Then, John, you are not conservative. You want a revolution.

Blogger Natalie July 26, 2016 11:19 PM  

Teri wrote:If these folks are conservative, why aren't they standing up for families and stay at home moms? I do not understand how Ted Cruz is a true conservative with a wife that works 70-80 hour weeks and hands off care of her daughter to others. Melania Trump gave up a career to stay at home and raise her son. No true conservative there.

And they are useless on abortion. You need societal pressure to convince the woman to have the child and to marry the father. Conservatives don't do a damn thing towards that.


This 100x. Home theology trumps book theology (at least until your kids get enough therapy to unscrew themselves). If you talk "traditional conservative values" and then live several states apart while both working high powered careers then pardon me if I think your home life is equally or more relevant than your "record."

Why the homeschool/evangelical crowd is falling for this beats the heck out of me.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 26, 2016 11:50 PM  

At some point the tactics really do become unsupportable even if they lead to victory.

Jack's Law of War Crimes: The only real war crime is losing the damn war.

Blogger newanubis July 26, 2016 11:56 PM  

Indeed. The psywars are far more effective as they're the rudder by which the guns are steered/pointed.

Anonymous SciVo July 27, 2016 12:02 AM  

dfordoom wrote:Conservatives unfortunately have shown zero interest in actually fighting the culture wars in the culture.

For one thing, that would require acting like the leftists in exactly one way, which is to discriminate heavily in favor of political teammates. And it's been a long time since rightists have taken that need seriously.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 27, 2016 12:03 AM  

Some things are easy to understand but hard to accept.

That's a realization I came to today during an exchange with both liberal and a "conservative" about the whole BLM/Thin-Blue-Line issue. Being flawed humans, when we find something hard to accept, our brains are good at finding ways to pretend we didn't understand. We do understand, but we don't want to, so we pretend otherwise. Both of these people were willfully misunderstanding the argument, in shifting and tragically entertaining ways.

Perhaps the best definition of the Alt-Right is those set of truths easy to understand but hard to accept. We should expect a lot of people will only "understand" when the universe doesn't give then any choice but to accept.

Anonymous Stelltech July 27, 2016 12:05 AM  

"The Founding Fathers believed in trade protectionism and a white America. Whether he gives a damn about the US Constitution or not, Donald Trump has as much or more in common with the Founding Fathers as the conservative movement does"

Since when is being in line with the founding fathers the be all end all of political authority? They were racists. They were sexists. They could not begin to offer a glimpse of what the 20th or 21st centuries would bring.

Many of the principles that guided them and made their way into the Constitution were magnificent. Others, not so much.

Anonymous Stelltech July 27, 2016 12:08 AM  

"Conservatism is dying"

This is the worst piece of political analysis I've ever read. Good God.

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett July 27, 2016 12:16 AM  

@220 And you're a faggot making a pittance in Soros bucks to shit drivel. Who cares what you think?

Blogger LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra July 27, 2016 12:21 AM  

Rebuilding is code for re-branding, brainwashing brandishing the fear concept f "if you all dont line up with lunacy we will implode the economy". Ha, the economy is el-gono neocons, el-gono liar media, you are all frauds!

Hey, lesser thinkers (corrupt no-honor MF's), chaos is cleansing, let any chaos begin, gen x and mil len whom are on to your LIES, dont consent, dont support and wont read you but we will line up next to the outlets we support like mike cern, stefan,milo, our game theoreticians and many others including the professionals at Castalia House (CH) and remain indifferent to the failed narratives, Zero Fracks Given to these other fibbers whom wont have a job within due time but CH will supersede the norm and left behind the right n left for the farces they've become.

The brain damaged populace is a lost cause or more rhetorical but its too late to win anyone over anymore, unless its via emotionalism its too late...

Anonymous Anonymous July 27, 2016 12:27 AM  

@Stelltech

Read a bit more up-thread. We don't care. We don't care if you cry racist or sexist. We don't care if you recoil in horror. We don't care if you vow to never vote for anyone associated with us. We don't care if you slander us as literally Hitler.

We don't care.

Do you want me to say it again?

Fucksake

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 27, 2016 12:53 AM  

Stelltech wrote:Since when is being in line with the founding fathers the be all end all of political authority? They were racists. They were sexists. They could not begin to offer a glimpse of what the 20th or 21st centuries would bring.

So what? What difference does that make. You say "racist and sexist" as if they were bad things, not the things we actually need right now. Are people different? Is the will to dominate different? Is corruption different?

Stelltech wrote:"Conservatism is dying"

This is the worst piece of political analysis I've ever read. Good God.


You're right. Conservatism isn't dying. Conservatism is DEAD.
The Conservative Movement killed it.

Blogger EscapeVelocity July 27, 2016 1:07 AM  

To be fair to Klavan, Im positive that he agrees with you Vox about cultural production, and he and the cuck brigades should be lauding your work in that area, creating Castalaia publishing house...and promoting Non-SJW works of (science) fiction & fantasy.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 27, 2016 1:10 AM  

Stelltech wrote:Since when is being in line with the founding fathers the be all end all of political authority? They were racists. They were sexists.
Among those Marxist shame words, I notice you do NOT say "they were wrong".

Anonymous Anonymous July 27, 2016 1:26 AM  

Bingo! Mr Rational.

Thou art grok.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 27, 2016 1:31 AM  

Mr. Rational wrote:Among those Marxist shame words, I notice you do NOT say "they were wrong".
MAde my point better than I did. Thank you.

personally, I blame the beer.

Blogger rho July 27, 2016 1:50 AM  

Conservative was a brand. It was a label opposed to Liberal.

Here's a fun idea: get the major alt-right thinkers together in a Brainstorm session to define Alt-Right.

I'd pay to listen to that.

Blogger rho July 27, 2016 2:29 AM  

Fun provision, we get to ask questions.

Blogger Pseudotsuga July 27, 2016 2:31 AM  

John Wright wrote:@142

"For entertainments sake, just ask a self-identified conservative what it is about "the way things are" that he wants to conserve? Confusion will result."

If and only if the conservative knows no history, cannot define his terms,and accepts your silly straw man definition of his position....We wish to preserve all the Left is vowed to destroy and regrow all they hace razed, raped, obliterated and burned.


Preach it, Brother Wright. I am a Western Civilizationist, in revolt against Modernism. Not the modern world, mind you, but Modernism.

Anonymous Anonymous July 27, 2016 2:32 AM  

They were racists. They were sexists.

Unfortunately, it appears they were neither racist nor sexist enough.

Ah well, always time to put things right.

I think you perhaps have Christianity misspelled.

The anti-christian D&C shills expect us to not notice the glaringly obvious fact that Europe lost its head at the same moment it lost its faith.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 27, 2016 2:39 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:MAde my point better than I did. Thank you.

personally, I blame the beer.

You do NOT want to know how much V&T I'd had when I wrote that.

I'm not sure I do either.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper July 27, 2016 2:49 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Then, John, you are not conservative. You want a revolution.

Well of course he does as do most reactionaries, either that or collapse which is the cheap way out. Its the only likely way to get the kind of society they want.

Thing is that's not wrong.

As Black Sam put it
"You are a devilish conscience rascal! I am a free prince, and I have as much authority to make war on the whole world as he who has a hundred sail of ships at sea and an army of 100,000 men in the field; and this my conscience tells me! But there is no arguing with such snivelling puppies, who allow superiors to kick them about deck at pleasure."

Blogger dfordoom July 27, 2016 3:17 AM  

@197. A.B. Prosper

As for Christianity being the salvation, we are really screwed if that is the case.

Unless there is a revival of actual Christianity then Christianity is not going to be of any help whatsoever. At best Christians will be an obstacle. At worst they will join the enemy. In fact most have already joined the enemy.

I'm not sure which are worse - the mealy-mouthed liberal Christians who worship diversity and sodomy or the Israel First neocon evangelicals. What I am sure of is that both are our enemies.

It's instructive to compare the responses of Christianity and Islam to modernism. Christianity has tried to embrace modernism (and all the evil isms that accompany it) and as a result Christianity in the West is now pretty much a dead religion.

Islam has been much more uncompromising in its opposition to modernism and as a result Islam is flourishing. Islam recognises that modernism (and all the baggage attached to it such as feminism, LGBT activism, radical environmentalism, moral relativism, atheism, consumerism) represents pure evil . Islam recognises that the struggle is a fight to the death.

There's no such thing as Kumbaya Islam. That's why Islam will survive while Christianity won't.

Blogger dfordoom July 27, 2016 3:31 AM  

@218. SciVo

For one thing, that would require acting like the leftists in exactly one way, which is to discriminate heavily in favor of political teammates. And it's been a long time since rightists have taken that need seriously.

Yep. Leftists understand that politics is a team activity. It requires coordination and discipline. And, as you say, if you want to win you have to be utterly shameless about stacking every organisation with your own people. Forget hiring on merit - simply hire rightists in preference to leftists, every single time.

If you happen to become President, make every single Supreme Court appointment an ultra-conservative bible-believing white male. Fighting fair when the other side is blatantly cheating is foolish but that's what the cucks still want to do.

Rightists lost the culture wars because they approached them in a spirit of fairness, sportsmanship and compromise.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 27, 2016 4:25 AM  

Among those Marxist shame words, I notice you do NOT say "they were wrong".

All is not gold that glitters, and not all who say things we don't like are wrong.

Here's the funny thing. If the world really was like cuckservatives claim it is, I'd be happy as a clam. Racial harmony, world-wide prosperity, and having most of the 6 billion people on this planet cheering us on, they'd all be as easy as electing G. W. Bush and kicking a few selected asses.

Except, if the world really was like the Progs promised, with harmony and prosperity just a matter of buying the world a coke and a smile, it would be even better than what Conservatives promise.

Neither one is grounded in truth though. They promise things that just can't be, by methods that just won't work.

Anonymous Clay July 27, 2016 8:50 AM  

VD wrote:You hate "Conservatism" VD. What's your alternative?

I don't hate it, I have contempt for its ineffectual nature and its inept adherents, that's all.

Christian Nationalism is my alternative.

The Constitution is dead. We can support its ideals and its purpose, which is defending the unalienable rights of the white American posterity of the Founding Fathers, but we cannot continue to fetishize it. It is a completely dead letter and it is absolutely disingenuous to pretend otherwise.


I'm not arguing with a thing you said.

What you are suggesting, tho, would be an armed revolution. Would you condome that ?

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 27, 2016 9:01 AM  

Clay wrote:I'm not arguing with a thing you said.

What you are suggesting, tho, would be an armed revolution. Would you condome that ?


So, you think we're going to get a choice in that?

Anonymous Clay The Swamp Spartan July 27, 2016 9:05 AM  

Sounds like the 5th Crusade, to me.

Which, I have no problem with...before it's too late...

Anonymous Rhetoric Man July 27, 2016 9:09 AM  

"The Constitution exists only to safeguard the unalienable rights of white Americans who are the posterity of the Founding Fathers, that is its sole purpose."

No, it is to safeguard the liberties of current and future generations of Americans regardless of race. Had the Founding Fathers explicitly outlined to Congress that in perpetuity white Europeans were exclusively to be citizens, there would have been that distinction. Except, Congress was given the right to determine the criteria for citizenship.

"Christian Nationalism is my alternative."

Religion trumps race. Faith is a personal choice, exactly why the Founding Fathers separate church and state. How one defines "Christian" and "nationalism" is widely open to interpretation.



Blogger John Wright July 27, 2016 10:52 AM  

@212
"What is the constitutional remedy?"

Article 5: the states can call a constitutional convention without federal permission or veto, and enact such amendments as are necessary to return to the federal government to a federalist system.

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett July 27, 2016 11:05 AM  

@Rhetoricman

You're plainly wrong about the Founders, as any high school civics course demonstrates.

The Founders certainly never separated Church and State. That was done by SCOTUS, well after the passage of the 14th amendment.

Remind me again why you waste electrons here?

Blogger John Wright July 27, 2016 11:07 AM  

@214
"Then, John, you are not conservative. You want a revolution."

I am of the party of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin and Abraham Lincoln.

By your logic, none of them are 'conservative' even though all sought to erect or protect the Constitution.

The Left, and no one outside the Left, defines 'conservative' to mean 'one who supports the status quo of whatever is in fashion regardless of content' and not to mean 'one who supports the principles of limited government in the abstract and the US federalist Constitution in particular, regardless of whether they are in fashion or not.'

Forgive me for being blunt: it is not merely gullible, it is foolish and counterproductive to believe you can beat the Left while adopting their slanted and dishonest labels and definitions.

The Alt Right and the Conservatives are now at odds, even though we are natural allies.

I suggest directing fire against the enemy, not against the man next to you in the trenches.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 27, 2016 11:39 AM  

Rhetoric Man wrote:Had the Founding Fathers explicitly outlined to Congress that in perpetuity white Europeans were exclusively to be citizens, there would have been that distinction. Except, Congress was given the right to determine the criteria for citizenship.

Some things are obvious enough that we don't spell them out. Some times that's a mistake. Obviously, I'm suggesting that Vox' position was self-evident to the FFs.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd July 27, 2016 11:57 AM  

John Wright wrote:The Left, and no one outside the Left, defines 'conservative' to mean 'one who supports the status quo of whatever is in fashion regardless of content' and not to mean 'one who supports the principles of limited government in the abstract and the US federalist Constitution in particular, regardless of whether they are in fashion or not.'

John, the Left's definition seems to be an accurate description of True Conservatism as it has been practiced during my lifetime. Your definition might be what we devoutly wish for, but when we vote for a True Conservative, or when we look at what True Conservatives have achieved, we see the leftist definition.

Consider Don't Ask Don't Tell: when Clinton decreed DADT, True Conservatives wailed that it would mean the end of the military. A mere 17 years later, 0bammy decreed the end of DADT, and True Conservatives wailed that it would mean the end of the military. From evil liberal imposition to True Conservative shibboleth in less than a generation. Is that not conserving the status quo?

If you want to argue that today's True Conservatives are No True Conservatives, I would argue in reply that conservative is as conservative does (and it does poorly, in modern practice), the brand is irretrievably damaged, and we should be calling ourselves reactionaries, since those things we wish to conserve are gone, no longer exist to be conserved, and must be restored.

We've seen this conversation before, haven't we?

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett July 27, 2016 11:58 AM  

@245. Mr Wright, with the utmost respect*, he isn't firing, you two just disagree over the meaning of a word (full disclosure, I agree with him more than you on this tiny labeling dispute). Snidely is a mackerel snapper, just like you and me. I can't imagine he'd kick you out of a foxhole, much less frag you.

Snidely , please let him call himself conservative if it suits him, especially if he's gonna view it as fragging. We NEED JCW IMHO. Screw the rest of the Cons though ;-)

And I beg both your prayers for me.

*I would not be here if not for long lurking your blog, which I found, strangely enough, from being a long time reader of the other member of the JCW-MS Mutual Admiration Society.

Blogger Joshua_D July 27, 2016 11:59 AM  

246. Ominous Cowherd July 27, 2016 11:39 AM

Some things are obvious enough that we don't spell them out. Some times that's a mistake. Obviously, I'm suggesting that Vox' position was self-evident to the FFs.


I also doubt the Founders ever imagined or intended that Moslems would build mosques on American soil as well.

Anonymous Anonymous July 27, 2016 12:27 PM  

VD wrote:I did, you ignoramus. I have never collaborated with Tor Books in any way. In fact, their top science fiction executive has been publicly attacking me, unprovoked, since 2005.

Very well, I'll accept your statement that you have never collaborated with Tor Books or any other big publisher under the control of Leftists.

To clarify, you, VoxDay, did receive a divine message that the Left was evil before 2012? If that was so, I have to wonder why you bring up being harassed by Leftist and other associates. If you had a message from heaven or god, you would have gotten something like this.

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Euphemia_the_Great_Martyr

Anyone can be harassed or persecuted by the Leftist alliance for heresy, that's just what they do to people under their thumb. I'm referring to divine level messages and capabilities, minor miracles, not things you as a human can figure out if you open your eyes. If you can notice that , so can anyone else, Christian or not.

Almost all main line Christian lines fractured from the Council of Chalcedon. That's the point. If your connection to Christ, VoxDay, is from the Holy Ghost, a spiritual conduit to the godhead, then that's something you personally hold. But if you speak of the Christian Church (es) in the West, then most of those are heresies, because they inherited the apostasy and heresy of the Council of Chalcedon.

As for my pov, Euphemia sounded like a true prophet, with a very strong connection to the godhead, the Holy Ghost. But the Council of Chalcedon erred. Any spirit could have taken hold of her corporeal body, especially if an agent of evil had already desecrated the tomb after unsealing it. 1st AD Christendom, ended after the Council of Chalcedon.

As for the Protestants and the Roman Catholic reforms, that came afterwards and while the Papacy and Papists might have had problems, Christianity no longer had any roots as a church. Individuals may have been capable of summoning up miracles, like Jean De Arc, but the church as an institution or hierarchy was already lost.

That, VoxDay, is why I said you weren't a Christian by your own reasoning. Americans have fallen from the vision of the Founding Fathers, destroyed the Republic they were given. The existing structures must be destroyed to make way. But Christianity itself, has done far worse since 1st AD Christendom than the entire history of the USA. Defending the West and the "Church" may have merit, if it was the original church, if Western ideals were the original version too.

For what it's worth, I think you're an Atheist trying to do a TruChristian(tm) impersonation, and failing horribly at it because you don't know what Christians believe, or how we think.

I replied to you before, S, but you probably didn't read that old thread. I'm on a character limit, so I have to keep it down. You can think whatever you want, it doesn't matter to me. I am no Leftist tyrant or nationalist lusting for power over fellow men or women. You can ask your god, or if you go with my interpretation, your Lucifer, what I am. If you have a true divine connection, you will obtain that message, by non human means. Then you will have proven, if only to yourself, that you are right and I am wrong.

Anonymous Anonymous July 27, 2016 1:09 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:John, the Left's definition seems to be an accurate description of True Conservatism as it has been practiced during my lifetime. Your definition might be what we devoutly wish for, but when we vote for a True Conservative, or when we look at what True Conservatives have achieved, we see the leftist definition.

The Republicans got enough of a backbone to fight a war against Southern Baptist slave lords that called themselves Christians, because Southern Baptists ensured blacks couldn't read or convert to Christianity.

It's been some time since then, and the Republicans have indeed become corrupt and in favor of the status quo powers. But even if that was true of the Christian churches, that does not mean each and every individual Christian is in heresy. Thus, it also doesn't mean every conservative is obedient to the status quo.

One third of Trump's support comes from conservatives, Republicans who feel betrayed by the status quo powers. The Republican party, and thus the conservatives working together in that organization, has been fighting the Democrats since 1860 at least, Demons being the founding faction of the Leftist alliance in the USA. It's an old organization the GOP, something the new boys on the block, Alt Right, don't know much about. Much of what they knew, is from Lucifer's human agents, aka Leftists.

VoxDay's Christian Nationalism is also problematic. Against 1st AD Christendom that is, where this belief that a Caesar or Holy War King will save their people. Even the Jews back then, broke the Covenant with God in favor of a king to lead them in war and conquest. Some few Jewish prophets told them what the consequences would be, the Jewish people did not care.

Jesus Christ refused to lead the Jews in a holy war against the Roman Empire, using the power of God. Christian Nationalism would be the Papacy or Orthodox Christianity (Chalcedonian) under the Byzantine Emperors. Secular power plays. John Wright is correct that there is a division in 1st AD Christendom, between Caesars and those under God. The human problem is that people think a Caesar or King or President, if they pretend to be under God, means everyone can obey the King as if the King was a god. A normal human hierarchy, the orders pass from the CEO on down to the grunt. The divine hierarchy doesn't seem to work like that, however. Or rather, there are certain requirements.

Christians take pains not to criticize or divide against other Christians. It is a faith that could not have overtaken Europe and the pagans, with merely the sword of war. It also would have lost much of its allure if war was how people converted, the allure of salvation and harmony in life. Many warlike pagans converted, including Vladimir of the Russians, including the Norse kings and thegns, at the time of 1000 AD. Why would people born to war and raiding, convert to Christianity, which defanged them of their power to conquer and take concubines... it is a difficult question I often come up with.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 27, 2016 3:01 PM  

@88

"People who swear will go to hell if they don't repent and get right with Jesus."

So, if I say "fuck you" to a thief, I go to hell? The commandment is to not take the Lord's name in vain -- i.e., to claim that something or some principle is a commandment of God, when it is not.

"God said I should burn down the homeless shelter" is taking the Lord's name in vain.

"God damn you!" is NOT taking the Lord's name in vain -- it is an expression of the desire that the subject be damned by God.

Anonymous Anonymous July 27, 2016 4:51 PM  

"God damn you!" is NOT taking the Lord's name in vain -- it is an expression of the desire that the subject be damned by God. @252

That's open to interpretation. Are you allowed by your God to tell god what to do. Is Vengeance God's to determine or yours...

Are you praying to God to stop/damn the target in question, such as a curse, or are you merely cursing people, god, included, because you felt like it.

"God said I should burn down the homeless shelter" is taking the Lord's name in vain.

Not even the Christians in France and Britain accused Jean De Arc of taking the Lord's name in vain, at her heresy trial. Either one of them.

But to get back to why conservatives are problematic as defined here and by the Left's propaganda.

https://voxday.blogspot.com/2010/03/interview-with-john-derbyshire.html

VDay said I should catch up on his previous writings, and since he doesn't seem to have an archive, I thought I might as well check up on his previous political views and interests.

After the passage of the Obamacare bill, you made an analogy to a sinking cruise ship. What are some of the issues that you feel have drawn the bilge-pumpers away from the pumps and onto the dance floor over the last two decades?-Interview question

The temptations of power. There's always been enough discontent with the way things are going to draw people to vote conservatives into power now and again. When conservatives are in power, then the temptations of power take over and they become statists. They want to do things – they want to do conservative things – but the only way to do things is to use the apparatus of the federal government – so they then become proponents of federal power and are sucked into the abyss like that. We've fallen into the trap of active conservatism, conservatism to do something, conservatism to ban something, conservatism to fix something. And that really isn't conservatism, it certainly isn't real American conservatism. That's why I obsess about Calvin Coolidge, who was the quintessential American conservative.


That sounds a lot more accurate than the Leftist inspired definitions used these days in the internet propaganda.

Blogger James Dixon July 27, 2016 5:23 PM  

> Except, Congress was given the right to determine the criteria for citizenship.

And, as I pointed out earlier, we're free to redefine it yet again. Even to denying it to existing citizens if we wish.

> Religion trumps race.

You keep saying that. You keep being wrong.

> Faith is a personal choice, exactly why the Founding Fathers separate church and state.

Except they didn't.

> How one defines "Christian" and "nationalism" is widely open to interpretation.

You're free to define Christian any way you want. And Christ is free to say "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

> Article 5: the states can call a constitutional convention without federal permission or veto, and enact such amendments as are necessary to return to the federal government to a federalist system.

I'm afraid it will be war before that can come about, and probably war even if it does.

> To clarify, you, VoxDay, did receive a divine message that the Left was evil before 2012?

I've known the left was evil since the 1980's, and I didn't need a divine message to tell me so.

Blogger Scott C July 27, 2016 7:03 PM  

4. was the only point of Klavan's I agreed with. Men who are willing to win at any cost take winning as an end in itself. The win-at-all-costs mentality will end in disaster when either our sides comes to understand the enemy's mentality and joins him or loses sight of what the battle was over.

Replacing one group of used car salesmen with another isn't going to help Western Civilization.

Blogger Stephen St. Onge July 27, 2016 8:23 PM  

"135. Stephen St. Onge July 26, 2016 5:06 PM
"...The outcome of that war will be dictatorship."

"147. andon July 26, 2016 5:40 PM
"what do we have now?"

[St. Onge]
Not a dictatorship. Check "Soviet Union" or "Nazi Germany" for the differences.

Blogger Stephen St. Onge July 27, 2016 8:33 PM  

"206. newanubis July 26, 2016 10:13 PM
"By 'major revision' you can't possibly be meaning a Re-write, can you?

"No, all that needs to happen is for it to be followed.

"And to be followed it must be taught to our progeny not maligned or dismissed as is current."

Not even the Founders followed the Constitution, or agreed what it allowed and disallowed. (See e.g. Hamilton vs. Madison & Jefferson re the Bank of the United States; the Federalists vs. Madison & Jefferson re the Alien and Sedition Acts, and the Louisiana Purchase; John C. Calhoun in 1820 vs. John C. Calhoun in 1850 concerning Federal authority in the territories; Fugitive Slave Acts of 1793 and 1850; the Dred Scott decision; and the whole secession controversy).

Words written on parchment have proven to be utterly ineffectual in stopping governments from acting, and the American people have shown that they won't rise in rebellion when the Constitution is violated. IT DOESN'T WORK.

The entire set-up needs to be rethought.

Blogger Stephen St. Onge July 27, 2016 8:40 PM  

"244. John Wright July 27, 2016 10:52 AM

"Article 5: the states can call a constitutional convention without federal permission or veto, and enact such amendments as are necessary to return to the federal government to a federalist system."

        After which the government will ignore the newly amended Constitution just as they ignore the present one.

        The reality is that the majority of the American people have rejected "limited government."  They won't rebel to enforce it, they won't even throw the rascals out at the polling place.

        And if they were willing to vote them out, the Constitution still wouldn't matter, as the new Congresscritters would repeal the unpopular policies, Constitutional or Unconstitutional.

        What is needed is a country where the great majority will support the kind of public policy we both wish.  The United States of America is not that country, and won't be.  Secession is the only cure.

        The choice is the United States, or Christian civilization.  You can't have both.

Anonymous Rhetoric Man July 27, 2016 10:30 PM  

James Dixon...

"And, as I pointed out earlier, we're free to redefine it yet again. Even to denying it to existing citizens if we wish."

It's been tried and failed--refer to Japanese Internment. You can try to redefine it, but it will gain little traction in the end. One cannot take away an American's citizenship merely because they are other than white.

"You keep saying that. You keep being wrong."

God judges His followers, which are from different races.
God protects His flock, which are white and brown and yellow and red and black.


"Except they didn't."

People are freely able to practice their own faith without government sanction that one religion is "better" than another religion.

"You're free to define Christian any way you want. And Christ is free to say "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Assuming that His words apply to me. You don't know for certain, only He does. Nice try.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 28, 2016 2:00 AM  

@252

"VoxDay's Christian Nationalism is also problematic."


Anybody who uses the word "problematic" instead of saying what the actual problem actually is, is not worth reading, listening to, or in fact, suffering their existence in any way.

If you were standing before me, I would strike you in the mouth for insulting my intelligence for even uttering that leftist BS and expecting me to give it even a moment's serious consideration.

Blogger Dirk Manly July 28, 2016 2:04 AM  

@260

"It's been tried and failed--refer to Japanese Internment. You can try to redefine it, but it will gain little traction in the end. One cannot take away an American's citizenship merely because they are other than white."

But you CAN take it away on the basis of behavior.

Anonymous Anonymous July 28, 2016 10:38 AM  

I might be a little late to this party, but I will throw in that in the Intertestamental Period, Judea's only time of national rule (the Hasmoneans) came about through good use of guerrilla tactics. Who were they fighting? The Seleucid Empire who had instituted a culture war where they were trying to turn the Jews into nice, little Greeks. The Hasmonean revolt was started when the priest Mattathias struck another priest dead for sacrificing to Zeus in the Hebrew Temple.

"It does not matter to Heaven to save by many or by few," was the motivating speech given by one of his sons before a major engagement where the guerrillas were badly outnumbered.

Blogger James Dixon July 28, 2016 11:20 AM  

> You can try to redefine it, but it will gain little traction in the end.

In your opinion. Which counts exactly as much as mine. We're going to try. Time will tell whether we succeed or not.

> People are freely able to practice their own faith without government sanction that one religion is "better" than another religion.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with "why the Founding Fathers separate church and state", which they never did.

> Assuming that His words apply to me. You don't know for certain, only He does. Nice try.

Oh, I can make a good guess, based on the available information. But you're correct that only he can judge your heart. Somehow I doubt you find that at all reassuring.

Blogger jandolin July 28, 2016 1:09 PM  

Andrew Klavan is ethnically jewish. Few (((conservatives))) really care about the survival of America.

Anonymous Anonymous July 28, 2016 9:09 PM  

Anybody who uses the word "problematic" instead of saying what the actual problem actually is, is not worth reading, listening to, or in fact, suffering their existence in any way.



Obviously you didn't read afterwards and just decided to stop there, so you couldn't catch yourself in a lie, ignoramus boy.

"Against 1st AD Christendom that is, where this belief that a Caesar or Holy War King will save their people."

That's the part you left out of the quote.

If you were standing before me, I would strike you in the mouth for insulting my intelligence for even uttering that leftist BS and expecting me to give it even a moment's serious consideration.

I have to question whether that is supposed to scare me or if you're just beclowning yourself, on top of breaking oaths.

You can claim, to yourself, that you won't suffer one's existence. But there's nothing you can do about it. You are forsworn even before the words come out of your mouth. @261

And Christ is free to say "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I would ask him, directly, if that is what he is saying. Technically he is dead, so the only way to communicate with dead spirits or angels is via the spiritual conduit. So if you are merely guessing and hoping for a judgment, that's a human problem and poison.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with "why the Founding Fathers separate church and state", which they never did.-James

Jefferson had a letter about dividing church from state, to protect the state from a church (Papacy) and to protect the church from the state (Romans). The Left uses separate to teach the masses that the Left is not a religion and that all enemies have a religion, which must be denied. Via the Long March through the institutions, the Left was able to separate God/churches from America, in order to replace the religion of America with the Left's death cult and with various other apostasies and heresies. For example, West Boro Baptists are supposedly Christians. Hussein's REverend is supposedly a black Christian. Rev Jackson and Sharpton are supposedly Christian religoius leaders... yea right, in hell perhaps.

Without a minor miracle, Washington would have died at Long Island, and he would have become King, as per his soldier's request and ambition. That he did not do so, is a result of God's grace and protection. If he is not, he should seek to be, and if he is, Washington should be thankful that the nation was founded under God, his god specifically. All the secular laws mean nothing, because the divine laws supersede them and also protect them.

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