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Friday, August 26, 2016

So that's settled

Richard B. Spencer ‏@RichardBSpencer
I might quibble here and there, but @voxday’s definition of the #AltRight is quite sound.
Richard was a great guest at Brainstorm tonight. The surprising - and frankly, somewhat alarming - thing, was the discovery that the noble Person of Color was somewhat more out there on several of the Alt-Right aspects we discussed than the No Good Very Bad Nazi White Supremacist With Great Fashy Hair.

One of the great strengths of the Alt-Right is that it is not only intellectually inclined, but that it is open-minded and honest. We didn't agree on everything, in fact, it was clear that my outlook is considerably more pessimistic (or if you prefer, less pollyannish) than Richard's. It's also more European and ethnonationalist than his more American and civic-nationalist perspective.

But regardless, it was a good, substantive discussion.

Labels: ,

67 Comments:

Anonymous Godfrey August 26, 2016 9:09 PM  

No more bomb the world, invite the world.

Anonymous Frankenstein McBadperson August 26, 2016 9:12 PM  

"One of the great strengths of the Alt-Right is that it is not only intellectually inclined, but that it is open-minded and honest."

That of course is THE strength of this intellectual thrust (see, I'm even disinclined to call it a "movement" though of course it is.) Reality has this odd, funny quality of being correspondent to what's real.

As Confucius said, A righteous man is not a tool.

"We didn't agree on everything... [my view is] also more European and ethnonationalist than his more American and civic-nationalist perspective."

Good to hear that. But I'd say there is, realistically speaking, no defensible American/civic-nationalist perspective, there's just a hypnotized-American perspective. Or more properly, a (((hypnotized))) American perspective.

Makes for quite a golem, wouldn't ya say?

Anonymous Godfrey August 26, 2016 9:13 PM  

Cuck logic:

Let's bomb, invade, and fund proxy armies to destroy nations and then invite the pissed off survivors to a neighborhood near you. Gosh... why would you be upset?

Anonymous Godfrey August 26, 2016 9:17 PM  

Cuck logic:

I bombed, starved, murdered, and destroyed the homes of millions of brown people, but... but you're the raciss.

Anonymous BGKB August 26, 2016 9:30 PM  

awkward HilLIARy paid KKK members. http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/report-all-of-the-kkk-members-in-hillary-clintons-new-trump-attack-ad-are-paid-actors_08262016

Blogger L' Aristokrato August 26, 2016 9:38 PM  

Funny how the alt-Right is actually, factually diverse, in a meaningful sense.
We can agree to disagree in everything aside from the fact that we collectivelly want the death of the current systems.

Blogger Student in Blue August 26, 2016 10:01 PM  

Quite miffed I forgot about Brainstorm tonight. Hope it was good for everyone else who showed up.

Anonymous Godfrey August 26, 2016 10:09 PM  

There is nothing wrong with your [social media devise]. Do not attempt to adjust [back to] the [narrative]. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the [coming decades], sit quietly and we will [debunk] all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your [social media devise]. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to – The Outer Limits. [Welcome to the Alt-Right]

Blogger Lazarus August 26, 2016 10:14 PM  

Things are happening fast. Sarkosy trying to ride the Tiger, Brezinski doing the same:

The Broken Chessboard: Brzezinski Gives Up On Empire

@ZH

Blogger Nate August 26, 2016 10:21 PM  

"(or if you prefer, less pollyannish)"

what?

You're the biggest Pollyanna on the planet.

Blogger tublecane August 26, 2016 10:22 PM  

Does "fashy" mean "fashionable" or "fascist?"

Blogger D. August 26, 2016 10:25 PM  

How do you move your views forward?

Blogger tublecane August 26, 2016 10:27 PM  

@9-F Brzezinski. Why even give fuddyduddies like that press? I don't even want to humiliate him. Did it help any when we did it to McNamara? I just want him gone. There are no Wise Old Foreign Policy Men. They're all idiots; look at how they left the world and the country.

Aww, I guess if he wakes up one neocon or war liberal it'll have been worth it.

Blogger D. August 26, 2016 10:29 PM  

To be specific: How do you dismantle this system of gov't peacefully?

Blogger Arthur Isaac August 26, 2016 10:30 PM  

If you are a pessimist I wonder what that makes me?

Blogger Robert Divinity August 26, 2016 10:31 PM  

Telling. I actually lean philosophically more toward Spencer but find your ethno-national perspective compelling as the more likely outcome.

Blogger tz August 26, 2016 10:31 PM  

When the Nazis are in power, the Jews have few choices.

It is not that the Alt-Right is racist or sexist, it is that the opposition to it is and they are intent on destroying life, liberty and property.

On twitter there was a Hitler - Jewish privilege post. That is the parallel.

They have made it clear that only the SJWs or Alt-Right will survive the war that the SJWs declared. I say OK. But that means I have to ally myself on the basis not of reason, but of whom the SJWs label as enemies.

That the SJWs have labeled all whites as privileged racists (including the white knights), means I must join with others who they consider enemies. I cannot use my reason to decide, but must use the negation of their un-reason.

Blogger tz August 26, 2016 10:35 PM  

@14 Make sure the buildings are empty before you demolish them.

But your question has an implicit error. When the enemy has already declared war, is on the march, and is invading, it isn't even Neville Chamberlain, It is Vichy-ous.

BLM has dragged whites from their cars to hurt them. SJWs want to disemploy anyone who triggers them.

I'm not sure what other than fear will stop them (though it rarely requires physical violence). This is a battle. Don't ask "peace, peace! when there is no peace".

Blogger D. August 26, 2016 10:36 PM  

>
That the SJWs have labeled all whites as privileged racists (including the white knights), means I must join with others who they consider enemies. I cannot use my reason to decide, but must use the negation of their un-reason.<

nah Just laugh at their stupid. These folks are easy to defeat.

Blogger D. August 26, 2016 10:39 PM  

> Don't ask "peace, peace! when there is no peace".<

You could attack the funding. 280 DC votes = more debt.

Blogger praetorian August 26, 2016 10:49 PM  

tublecane wrote:Does "fashy" mean "fashionable" or "fascist?"

Yes.

Richard Spencer...

Blogger Lazarus August 26, 2016 10:55 PM  

tublecane wrote:@9-F Brzezinski. Why even give fuddyduddies like that press? I don't even want to humiliate him. Did it help any when we did it to McNamara? I just want him gone. There are no Wise Old Foreign Policy Men. They're all idiots; look at how they left the world and the country.

Aww, I guess if he wakes up one neocon or war liberal it'll have been worth it.


The point is.....he lost, and is scrambling for credibility. The epitome of evil has become a homeless beggar. This should be an occasion for optimism.

Blogger Noah B August 26, 2016 11:01 PM  

These certainly are exciting times.

Blogger Nemontel August 26, 2016 11:25 PM  

It would be interesting to at least know what points where made by each side?!

Anonymous Rolf August 26, 2016 11:26 PM  

Can someone with a Facebook or Gmail account sign into Urban Dictionary and give https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=alt-right the following (pared down to under 1500 characters) definition and usage?

The Alt Right is a Western ideology that believes in science, history, reality, and the right of a genetic nation to exist and govern itself in its own interests.

The Alt Right is of the political right in both the American and the European sense of the term. It’s an ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream conservative movement in the USA.
It believes in victory through persistence and remaining in harmony with science, reality, cultural tradition, and the lessons of history.
It believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Rule of Law.
It is openly and avowedly nationalist, anti-globalist, anti-equalitarian, and scientodific
It believes identity > culture > politics.
It opposes the domination of any native ethnic group by another.
It understands that diversity + proximity = war.
It rejects international free trade.
It believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children, and does not believe in the general supremacy of any race, nation, people, or sub-species
It is a philosophy that values peace among the various nations of the world and opposes wars to impose the values of one nation upon another as well as efforts to exterminate individual nations through war, genocide, immigration, or genetic assimilation.

Usage: Vox Day is a leader of the Alt Right, much as every slave was Spartacus.


Thanks.

Blogger D. August 26, 2016 11:30 PM  

>It would be interesting to at least know what points where made by each side?!<

alt-r : cry bullies with different vigor

Blogger D. August 26, 2016 11:32 PM  

>Can someone with a Facebook or Gmail account sign into Urban Dictionary and give <

thanks for your "Nicene Creed"

Blogger Doom August 26, 2016 11:37 PM  

Frankenstein,

"Good to hear that. But I'd say there is, realistically speaking, no defensible American/civic-nationalist perspective, there's just a hypnotized-American perspective. Or more properly, a (((hypnotized))) American perspective."

+1

tz,

"That the SJWs have labeled all whites as privileged racists (including the white knights), means I must join with others who they consider enemies. I cannot use my reason to decide, but must use the negation of their un-reason."

I need nor want any reason, save that opposing them is the correct thing. I will not use their exclusions or calculations at all in choosing allies. I will "pike" white knights right with them, together, on the same pork blood smeared poles. No quarter given, not even for those who say they are on my side and chide the least defense against the evil before me.

Rolf,

"Usage: Vox Day is a leader of the Alt Right, much as every slave was Spartacus."

Perfect.

Anonymous andon August 26, 2016 11:40 PM  

OT: what if you went to one of those lefty demonstrations like BLM and carried a sign that said "Soros paid me a hundred bucks"

Blogger D. August 26, 2016 11:44 PM  

You alt-right folks don't have the balls to legally take the credit card away from Uncle Sam. Art V convention of the states 2018! 3/4 state legislatures to raise it.

Anonymous Wyrd August 26, 2016 11:52 PM  

@Rolf

Done! Let's see if it gets through.

Anonymous Rolf August 26, 2016 11:55 PM  

@31 - Thanks.

Anonymous GamerOver August 27, 2016 12:02 AM  

Richard Spencer: "the noble Person of Color was somewhat more out there on several of the Alt-Right aspects we discussed"

Good. Can he embrace Trump More. Then Talk. More. Even Better-Start New party. Split the right. Please.

Anonymous gxg August 27, 2016 12:07 AM  

On the Urban Dictionary, the current top definition for the alt-right is obviously designed to be negative. (And yeah, it is, so a replacement is definitely in order). But it still manages to make the alt-right sound edgy, rebellious, and young.

It's a positive sign when your harshest critics are saying things like, "These people are too young, edgy, and modern..." Like THAT's going to keep people from embracing the movement.

Point of reference: This refers to the definition that begins, "A young branch of American conservatism focused mainly on white-supremacist, xenophobic identity politics and anti-immigration sentiment..."

Blogger D. August 27, 2016 12:09 AM  

Deactivating Hal 9000 HD (COMPLETE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgkyrW2NiwM


Anonymous Wyrd August 27, 2016 12:12 AM  

Given his whining about alt-right trolls earlier this week on Fox News, I imagine Greg Gutfeld submitted this:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Alt-Rightist&defid=9905373

Blogger Nate August 27, 2016 12:36 AM  

"To be specific: How do you dismantle this system of gov't peacefully?"

Its never actually been done from the bottom up.

Its only been done from the top down when the government conceded power willingly.

I don't think that is likely.

Do you?

Blogger Nate August 27, 2016 12:38 AM  

anyway.. its always nice to have our suspicions confirmed.

The Dread Ilk are significantly more nasty than the worst caricatures our enemies make of us.

Blogger Noah B August 27, 2016 12:44 AM  

@37 The only way I can imagine doing it is by taking incremental steps to restore power to states while stripping it away from feds. Reform of marijuana laws and exemption of firearms manufactured and kept within a state from federal firearms laws are both good examples.

A next step I would like to see is state resistance to recording and enforcing federal tax liens. One way to do this might be a state requirement that all federal tax liens be approved by a state agency prior to being recorded, while stripping law enforcement of authority to enforce federal liens that have not been duly authorized by the state.

Anonymous karsten August 27, 2016 12:45 AM  

Ethnonationalism > civic nationalism

The one area in which Spencer is consistently, spectacularly wrong is in his antipathy to ethnonationalism -- which is, in fact, essential. (And his pro-EU pan-Europeanism is bonkers.)

Blogger pyrrhus August 27, 2016 12:58 AM  

Definitely an excellent Brainstorm, with very honest dialogue.

Blogger Phillip George August 27, 2016 1:24 AM  

Vox. the prophetic significance to all this "what are we" might likewise amuse.

A Jubilee year means being restored to your original heritage. Identity if you like. Whether its Brexit or Black lives matter it seems there's a lot of Exodus going on. Boxers returning to their corners in time for the next bell.

Wittgenstein and Fuzzy Logic suggest not trying to overly refine a definition. Rally around what we aren't as much as what we are. Words fail like legal definitions fail. That the constitution could be twisted to endorse sodomy for the non consummation of man man marriage is as farcical as Muhammad's knowledge of physiology. Man made from a blood clot. This is put in the multi cultic hat with clitorectomies and the earth supported by elephants. Interesting times. Very.

Blogger tublecane August 27, 2016 1:31 AM  

@40-I don't know much about Spencer. Does he go all Yockney on Europe? Maybe when it was Christendom, but now? You can't go all Dante anymore.

What could unite Europe, besides not being Muslim? Modern Social Democratic Capitalist Politically Correct Puritanism? That's one of the advantages of liberalism/progressivism. It is universal, whatever else it is. It sets up mass culture, dissolves all traditional bonds, and says, "Whattya got left? We're all there is."

Or the fact that they're white? That's not enough. There is no common European culture. Not outside of Christianity, and that can't work anymore.

Blogger Phillip George August 27, 2016 1:39 AM  

outside of Christianity, and that can't work anymore

seems to be sort of working in Hungary? Corsica? but when things scare them to the diaper change - they might just look history square in the eyes.

Blogger tublecane August 27, 2016 1:53 AM  

@44-The subject was pan-Europeanism. Of course it can help in uniting people country by country. But they'll also have ethnic and historical ties to bind them.

Anonymous SciVo August 27, 2016 2:17 AM  

D. wrote:To be specific: How do you dismantle this system of gov't peacefully?

Like the end of the Soviet Union, it takes widespread awareness of agreement that it's over and done. So then men with guns know what to do and what not to do.

Arthur Isaac wrote:If you are a pessimist I wonder what that makes me?

I'm actually a literal Pollyanna. Self-identified, explicitly abiding by the character's philosophy. I choose to live that way.

And I think we're effed. I'm sorry, but it's true, and you need to face facts: your rectum is about to be metaphorically ruptured, in less than four decades.

And I'm the deliberately optimistic one.

Anonymous SciVo August 27, 2016 2:42 AM  

Incidentally here's a great article, don't remember how I got linked to it, but it's really good. Calls out VD, Scott Adams, Jonathan Haidt, and more. Very interesting.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 27, 2016 3:10 AM  

Or perhaps: "Don't bomb 'em over there; don't bring 'em over here."

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey August 27, 2016 3:10 AM  

Or perhaps: "Don't bomb 'em over there; don't bring 'em over here."

Blogger Arthur Isaac August 27, 2016 3:12 AM  

Scivo, I think we're past due and am astounded every day that I can turn on the lights and drag myself to work. I think the globalists are going to panic and try to crack down. This may in all likelihood be preceded by a war to finish enervating the West. Whether they succeed or not we are going to get hosed.

Their timeline is only getting more compressed (Brexit and nationalism) and they are running out if ways to steal other people's money to keep the Ponzi afloat.

Anonymous SciVo August 27, 2016 4:00 AM  

Arthur, you can't go back in time, so every day that the debtberg hasn't hit yet is a grace from God to amass more at-home production resources. If you assume that you can do better and try, then you will if we have time; and if we don't have time, then nothing will make a difference anyway. So the most pro-victory belief is the former, even if it's false. I'm not sure I'm explaining that well. Does it make sense?

Blogger Laramie Hirsch August 27, 2016 4:01 AM  

I never get to participate in Brainstorm because of my schedule. Are these things recorded somewhere?

Blogger residentMoron August 27, 2016 4:39 AM  

Arthur and SciVo,

The political elite have already shown their hand. When the shit hits the fan and there's not enough food for everyone to have some, when there's not enough energy for everyone to have the lights on, when there's not enough of anything for everyone to have enough, it's going to go exactly the way the financial crisis went.

It is going to be austerity for thee, but not for me.

They will stop trying to police the outer edges of empire. They will stop even pretending to police the ghetto and its fringes. They will stop caring about the suburban commuter services, about food distribution, about power distribution.

It will be queues, lines, brownouts, and crime for you and yours, while they maintain their first world lifestyle at your expense.

Anonymous SciVo August 27, 2016 5:03 AM  

residentMoron, I get it. They don't know why that would be so foolish, because it isn't safe for me to tell them what will actually happen if they do that, so they don't know.

Blogger Rantor August 27, 2016 8:08 AM  

@Laramie so far no, transcripts are often released to members.

Blogger Lovekraft August 27, 2016 8:24 AM  

What to do about the blatant white supremacists however. They may be trolls, CIA, or they may be the real deal.

Read an article stating that this ideology is doomed due to disparity in white ethnicities (Irish vs Italian, for example) and that nationalism is the primary objective, with white people developing a strong identity from it.

sauce: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2016/08/25/white-nationalism-the-principle-and-the-practice/

Blogger Jewel August 27, 2016 10:24 AM  

Altrighters do worst case scenario thinking. We do every contingency thinking. We aren't about making the world a better place, or preventing disasters and boo boos and that nonsense. What's not to understand?

Blogger Arthur Isaac August 27, 2016 10:34 AM  

@ Scivo, I've been a prepper for 25 years. I live in rural Alaska and make decent money. It makes sense to me.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 27, 2016 10:56 AM  

And yet Here I am watching a French cooking show with some very delicious looking trout rolled up in a cheesy sauce as someone pours caviar over the top drinking cognac while I'm reading ilk-ish ranting.

W00t w00t it's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine____

Blogger Were-Puppy August 27, 2016 11:03 AM  

@5 BGKB
awkward HilLIARy paid KKK members. http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/report-all-of-the-kkk-members-in-hillary-clintons-new-trump-attack-ad-are-paid-actors_08262016
---

Made this the other day after reading the Shrillary speech

https://i.imgflip.com/19j0ow.jpg

Blogger Were-Puppy August 27, 2016 11:08 AM  

@17 tz

That the SJWs have labeled all whites as privileged racists (including the white knights), means I must join with others who they consider enemies. I cannot use my reason to decide, but must use the negation of their un-reason.
---

You must survive. Is that not reasonable?

Blogger Were-Puppy August 27, 2016 11:13 AM  

@29 andon
OT: what if you went to one of those lefty demonstrations like BLM and carried a sign that said "Soros paid me a hundred bucks"
---

They'd think you are a cheep whore

Anonymous BGKB August 27, 2016 12:20 PM  

what if you went to one of those lefty demonstrations like BLM and carried a sign that said "Soros paid me a hundred bucks"

They actually pay whites twice non Asian minorities, and females 1/2 of males covered by someone hired through the process.

Make sure the buildings are empty before you demolish them.

Maybe he is jewish and wants to make sure they are all fully looted.

legally take the credit card away from Uncle Sam. Art V convention of the states 2018! 3/4 state legislatures to raise it

Jews would bring out the big bribe money for that, we might even get the full $8billion taxpayers give it that year.

What to do about the blatant white supremacists however.

"To blame whites for everything is about the purest expression of white supremacist thinking possible." ~Jim Goad

The real white supremacists are those willing to risk life and limb to get onto welfare in white nations.

Blogger Robert What? August 27, 2016 2:01 PM  

While still extreme minorities, there are Blacks and Jews who support the alt-Right. (Yours truly being an example of the latter.) We are the worst nightmare of the cucks as it throws a monkey wrench into the narrative.

Anonymous Edward Abbey August 27, 2016 3:59 PM  

"We are the worst nightmare of the cucks as it throws a monkey wrench into the narrative."

THROW HARDER.

OpenID thresherofmen August 27, 2016 4:28 PM  

Damn! Sounds like I missed a great debate. Is a recorded version of it available anywhere? Even behind a paywall or something?

Blogger Jack Burton August 29, 2016 6:05 AM  

"Than his more American perspective." That's funny considering he is typically anti-American and pro-European according to him. Then as soon as he goes to Europe he gets arrested, LOL.

While I respect anyone who can make a difference in our predicament even if I dislike the person, Richard has a lot of beliefs I'm at odds with. Mainly his statement that castizos and quadroons are white, as Sailer believes as well. I find these kinds of racial capitulations by some of the Alt Right leaders to be disturbing and counterproductive. That's such a big tent approach that it's self-defeating.

On a personal level I just don't like the guy. He has an effeminate voice, he promotes faggotry, he's anti-American, his racial standards are those of Latin mongrels and he just comes off as a narcissistic douchebag. He's also quick on the block button, so giving this guy power is a recipe for tyranny of another kind.

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