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Tuesday, September 27, 2016

Brainstorm: Alt-Right or Alt-White?

I'm pleased to announce that tomorrow night, Greg Johnson, the Alt-Right editor of Counter-Currents, will be joining me to engage in a battle to the death for the exclusive ownership of the soul of the Alt-Right discuss the current state of the Alt-Right, whether there is a meaningful distinction to be made between Alt-White and Alt-West, and if there is any meaning to the term Alt-Right beyond that of white nationalism.

It promises to be an interesting discussion. This Brainstorm session will be held at 7 PM Eastern tomorrow night, September 28th, and it is open, so anyone is welcome to attend although there is only room for 1,000 participants.

You can sign up for it here.

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54 Comments:

Blogger Dire Badger September 27, 2016 11:45 AM  

I don't know if I trust Greg Johnson.

Maybe it's just His Name. between Lyndon and Gary, Johnson has a lot of bad, corrupt overtones.

Blogger Bard September 27, 2016 11:57 AM  

His blog articles are pretty good and I am glad you are talking. I think he is a valuable ally

Blogger Bard September 27, 2016 11:57 AM  

His blog articles are pretty good and I am glad you are talking. I think he is a valuable ally

Blogger Bard September 27, 2016 11:58 AM  

Damn phone always double posts sorry

Blogger John S September 27, 2016 12:02 PM  

Registered. Any chance of getting an mp3 of the debate? My shift starts really early, but I'm quite interested in hearing this.

Anonymous Coal fired brisket September 27, 2016 12:07 PM  

Very excited for this.

Has anyone heard of any online alt west ministry's? Ive only seen Vox directly tie the alt right to Scripture. I think it's something the movement really needs to look at.

Blogger Thucydides September 27, 2016 12:07 PM  

Well here is more evidence of the need for an Alt White or Alt West anyway:

"“I’m Black. Does America Have a Plan for My Life?”, asks a an assistant professor of African-American studies and philosophy at Yale University in the New York Times."
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/244854/

If anyone needs to ask a question like that I'd have to suggest they are not even a functioning adult (regardless of their ethnic origins), but the fact that people like that are near the levers of power or can influence people highlights where the real issues are. The Alt West rejects magical thinking by people like this "professor", so in the long run, it is a healthier and more bored based idea than Alt White.

Anonymous User September 27, 2016 12:18 PM  

Racial chauvinism is perfectly normal and psychologically healthy. The response you see in American whites when they finally accept it is amazing. You can see the relief wash over their face, like their balls just got let out of a vice.

Obviously this is nothing new for Europeans. They're all wildly hilarious in ways most Americans can't begin to understand. Listening to various celts shit on each other over drinks is fun though. The cornish have been the butts of jokes for the better part of a millenium.

Anonymous Remoboth September 27, 2016 12:23 PM  

(Damn, I didn't read the submission rules before posting. I lost my much coveted FIRST post position as a result. Lesson learned.)

To reiterate:

I look forward to it. As a black sympathizer to the Alt-Right I am both elated and worried at the increased attention it has warranted as of late. More importantly I often wonder how and IF the Alt-Right can manifest tangible policy and action and how this may be of benefit or detriment to myself and other negroes.

Blogger Lovekraft September 27, 2016 12:23 PM  

Signed up. Looking forward to it.

Anonymous MendoScot September 27, 2016 12:34 PM  

Ah, the Cornish. Yes. Mad as hatters.

Blogger ghostfromplanetspook September 27, 2016 12:55 PM  

Guess I'm alt-west by default thanks to being half Mexican (which is mainly Spanish, French, and native but whatevs).

I'll do Greg a favor and lynch myself.

Blogger Nemontel September 27, 2016 1:01 PM  

I will be there.

Anonymous BGKB September 27, 2016 1:05 PM  

"“I’m Black. Does America Have a Plan for My Life?”, asks a an assistant professor of African-American studies

Grow up, get a job, decide what you want to do with your life, find someone to live with. Plan for retirement. Did I miss anything?

Blogger praetorian September 27, 2016 1:06 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Eric Mueller September 27, 2016 1:06 PM  

Wish you'd stop doing these on Wednesdays. I'm tied up Wednesday nights.

Blogger praetorian September 27, 2016 1:06 PM  

Magical.

Shadilay, brothers.

(Please play Shadilay as the intro music.)

Blogger Durandel Almiras September 27, 2016 1:08 PM  

Looking forward to it. I hope your assessment and description of the Alt Right movement spreads...as even an ally like Milo is clearly confused on what it is considering a few of his misrepresentations in his well done Houston speech

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey September 27, 2016 1:10 PM  

Sounds promising.

Blogger DrAndroSF September 27, 2016 1:11 PM  

I suppose it should not surprise me, given humankind's natural and inescapable selfishness, but when individuals try to think about the destiny of whole civilizations and then boil it down to "what about me?" because they're left-handed or had a Mexican great-grandpa, it fails to impress. At least the legendary selfishness of the Israelites is expressed in a concern for the whole tribe --"Is it good for the Jews?"-- but deciding that Western Civilization has to be defined so that little old quirky me feels comfortably at the center...gee, all I wanna say is, Grow up and face the world as it is.

Anonymous Remoboth September 27, 2016 1:27 PM  

Re: DrAndroSF

We're indelibly tied to our phenotypic/ethnic/cultural identity by nature of our genetics, our inherited social legacy and the perceptions of others.

Realizing this is it really "selfish" or deplorable to wonder how a new school of political thought would affect those of your group identity?

We can work towards the preservation and revitalization of the West but the reality is that as long as various groups under the banner of 'Alt-Right' are vying for ideological and policy supremacy it would be foolish to not consider the consequences of their respective proposals.

Some like Jared Taylor, at least initially, would advocate for the cessation of reverse-discrimination laws and voluntary association enclaves.

Some like Steven Sailor would advocate for a return to meritocracy through a hyperactive civic nationalism where those who don't perform to standard are rightfully sloughed off benefit from the whole.

Some like Brett Stevens would advocate exiling anyone who isn't of particular North-Western European ethnicities --- not just minorities, but those of Irish lineage and mixed-white backgrounds.

Some still farther to the periphery of the 'Big Tent' would advocate for more immediate and violent action as a necessary stopgap to what they see as the immenitized destruction of Western Civilization.

For some there are not enemies to the Right, but there are overt ambiguities that if ignored will coalesce into debilitating problems as this great drama unfolds.

Blogger residentMoron September 27, 2016 1:33 PM  

Damn! Now I finally understand why my father laughed as he explained the Cornish origin of my name.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan September 27, 2016 1:44 PM  

Whoever can work towards free speech for whites.

Blogger Gary September 27, 2016 1:45 PM  

I think it's worth reading the Cult State article (chat thread) at this link:

https://aknightofnumenor.wordpress.com/2016/09/06/an-interesting-article-from-cult-statethe-planned-destruction-of-the-alt-right/

I've thought it's all a set up from word go, Trump just a honeypot.

Blogger SouthRon September 27, 2016 1:55 PM  

That happens when I hit the back button in my phone. Had to train myself to tap the Vox Popoli header and go back to the article.

Blogger Sheila4g September 27, 2016 2:01 PM  

Very much looking forward to this. The various strands of the Alt Right need to talk with one another and focus on what they have in common to work as allies in the fight for the survival of the White race and Western Civilization.

Anonymous BGKB September 27, 2016 2:32 PM  

I've thought it's all a set up from word go, Trump just a honeypot.

If the alt right burns like you think it will, what do you think will happen to every leftist politician and supreme court judge? You can't get all of the alt right and even a groid like Chris Dorner took all of CA's resources with help from the Feds+ national guard over a week to catch.

Blogger Sheila4g September 27, 2016 2:50 PM  

OT: The blog "Those Who Can See" has an interesting new post on group differences, focusing on Negroes and Jews - the past

Anonymous Roundtine September 27, 2016 3:17 PM  

Trump is not a honeypot, he's a nexus.

Blogger N Matheson September 27, 2016 3:39 PM  

Cancelled, bit too late for me on reflection. Will this be uploaded after the event anywhere?

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric September 27, 2016 4:06 PM  

Greg Johnson himself seems sharp enough, but there's a few real idiots that post in the comments, at least. The idea that an ideology of Leftism can be part of the alt-Right is just stupid. Vox's Point #1 is a major bone of contention with many of these alt-White folks.

For all of those "I'm half Mexican or black or whatever", that's why the Alt-West exists. It's much less concerned with racial purity and moreso with cultural purity. The Irish are as white as they get, and there are Jews who look more white than our Yamnaya ancestors probably did, and yet neither is really part of Western civilization, except by imitation.

Anonymous Remoboth September 27, 2016 4:36 PM  

Re: Deplorable Gaiseric

The issue of Race/Ethnicity may be of less concern to the Alt-West corner of the Alt-Right 'Big Tent' but the stark reality is that it is one of the prime issues if not THE defining issue of the Alt-Right as it currently stands.

Brett Stevens often states that any multi-ethnic society is doomed to internal conflict and eventual dissolution.

History bears this to be true but there are outliers --- Most notably in the modern world, Singapore, which under a benign dictatorship with a free market is relatively stable for a multi-ethnic society with a sizable Muslim population to boot.

Since any effort to make the United States 90% white again within this century would would most likely include highly unsavory methods under both expanses of the current Overton Window, one wonders if there are any other methods to achieve the preservation of both the Occidental World and the White Race without leaving both in a scenario far worse as a result?

Anonymous Dave September 27, 2016 5:05 PM  

I'm in. 7pm EST is ideal.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 27, 2016 5:37 PM  

Gary wrote:I think it's worth reading the Cult State article (chat thread) at this link:
https://aknightofnumenor.wordpress.com/2016/09/06/an-interesting-article-from-cult-statethe-planned-destruction-of-the-alt-right

I've thought it's all a set up from word go, Trump just a honeypot.


The guy's basic thesis is bullshit. It is entirely dependent on social isolation. Granted people are to some extent more isolated than in the past, people still have to work, shop, co-operate, worship God, etc.
Maybe among he and his friends the sort of isolation he's talking about is common. Not among normal people.
As just one example, you can watch the supposedly "unreachable" middle moving to Trump, right now, in real time.

Just another Secret Manipulator King who thinks he's got a good bead on things. He's bullshitting himself and he's an idiot.

Blogger Gary September 27, 2016 5:47 PM  

You seem ignorant of history, and of the present.
A democracy will always have its final pendulum swing to the left, and that's what lies ahead after one term of Trump, a useful idiot who will be painted as having caused the recession that is incipient.
The only variable is how many the left will slaughter before civil war breaks out.
But the *extremists* on the alt-right will be targeted by the next left governments, the world over.

Anonymous JAG September 27, 2016 6:25 PM  

Thucydides wrote:Well here is more evidence of the need for an Alt White or Alt West anyway:

"“I’m Black. Does America Have a Plan for My Life?”, asks a an assistant professor of African-American studies and philosophy at Yale University in the New York Times."

If anyone needs to ask a question like that I'd have to suggest they are not even a functioning adult (regardless of their ethnic origins), but the fact that people like that are near the levers of power or can influence people highlights where the real issues are. The Alt West rejects magical thinking by people like this "professor", so in the long run, it is a healthier and more bored based idea than Alt White.


The plan for this professor is no different than anyone else. Does he think the world owes him a living? He is a professor of psycho-babble which is make believe work. Where else could someone so profoundly useless to society make such a great living?

Anonymous User September 27, 2016 6:30 PM  

The current demographic trends in the USA are entirely unnatural. Hardworking whites have half their production taxed away to fund welfare for aliens to have more babies. In our natural state whites breed like rabbits. No surprise, given how superlatively hot white women are compared to the other races. Get rid of redistributive welfare and deeply shame birth control and America will be 90% white in 50 years.

Anonymous JAG September 27, 2016 6:31 PM  

Gary wrote:You seem ignorant of history, and of the present.

A democracy will always have its final pendulum swing to the left, and that's what lies ahead after one term of Trump, a useful idiot who will be painted as having caused the recession that is incipient.

The only variable is how many the left will slaughter before civil war breaks out.

But the *extremists* on the alt-right will be targeted by the next left governments, the world over.


Come and get us.

Anonymous User September 27, 2016 6:31 PM  

Look a troll preaching despair.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 27, 2016 6:43 PM  

Gary wrote:A democracy will always have its final pendulum swing to the left, and that's what lies ahead after one term of Trump, a useful idiot who will be painted as having caused the recession that is incipient.
Weimar Republic, bitch.

Anonymous TheUnitedNorth September 27, 2016 7:09 PM  

Vox,

One question I hope you and Greg discuss regarding the Alt-White/Alt-West distinction is the topic of ethno-nationalism. Your contention seems to be that the Alt-White is only concerned with White Nationalism while the Alt-West supports an ethno-nationalism for all peoples (i.e an ethno-nationalism that is pan-racial).

Elaborating on that and getting Greg's input would be pretty fascinating. Looking forward to watching it to tomorrow.

Blogger Were-Puppy September 27, 2016 7:23 PM  

I hope the topic of Nat Soc comes up.
It's hard to imagine anyone pushing a form of socialism is somehow on the right, as was previously stated. I'm having a hard time grokking their point of view.

Anonymous Tes September 27, 2016 7:44 PM  

Populism vs Plutocracy:

Blogger rcocean September 27, 2016 8:01 PM  

Greg Johnson is one of the smartest people on the Alt_right. i wish i could attend.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros September 27, 2016 9:59 PM  

Were-Puppy wrote:I hope the topic of Nat Soc comes up.

It's hard to imagine anyone pushing a form of socialism is somehow on the right, as was previously stated. I'm having a hard time grokking their point of view.


Because the original left-right dichotomy was about Progress on the left and Order on the right. NatSoc respects the hierarchical nature of man and is authoritarian, therefore, not Left.

Depends on where you draw the axis really.

Blogger SciVo September 28, 2016 3:49 AM  

Ezekiel Cassandros wrote:Depends on where you draw the axis really.

I'm developing a hypothesis that right-left axis is vacuous and just denotes the primary axis of conflict in a particular polity. So in ours for several decades, that would be the authoritarian corporatist axis and crony socialism vs. crony capitalism.

So it's something you could talk about with your friend that would never understand most of that last paragraph, but has no meaning as cultural spheres get larger, and basically useless at anything more than a U.S. region let alone internationally.

Blogger SciVo September 28, 2016 4:14 AM  

Remoboth wrote:Since any effort to make the United States 90% white again within this century would would most likely include highly unsavory methods under both expanses of the current Overton Window, one wonders if there are any other methods to achieve the preservation of both the Occidental World and the White Race without leaving both in a scenario far worse as a result?

Who cares? Any failure to achieve that result would in turn result in worse methods, the goal being literally existential. Powerful forces are attempting to dis-exist us, and people will literally do whatever it takes to continue to exist (because that wouldn't, don't).

Blogger SciVo September 28, 2016 4:20 AM  

The white race is facing an existential threat, in both Europe (where you parochial mofos don't even recognize it as such) and in America. The forces arrayed against us are powerful, so I guess the primary question is what is the cue that we use to pull out all the stops. (Because we know our enemy will never stop until our very existence is a question.)

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey September 28, 2016 4:49 AM  

"Most notably in the modern world, Singapore, which under a benign dictatorship with a free market is relatively stable for a multi-ethnic society with a sizable Muslim population to boot."

Lee Kuan Yew, of course was very aware of the problems of a multiracial, multicultural society, and made several good observations about the impossibility of a functioning democracy in such a state.

Anonymous trequar September 28, 2016 7:07 AM  

Some possible talking points.
-The definition difference; Alt-Right Inc. (Spencer) vs the alternative Right i.e. Right wing thinkers who have lost all faith in Conservatism Inc.
-If Alt-Right=White Nationalist, why isn't it just called that?
-So who is co-opting who?
-Which method is more capable of preserving White people in the West (given our natural anti-totalitarian ideals)?
- How White Nationalism has a history of tearing itself apart over various issues (e.g. religion, racial purity, ethnic variations, Nazism, homo-question) and why we should put faith in it as a vehicle.
-How will Alt-West avoid entryism, dillution, cooption (e.g. playing down importance of race... allowing jews over-representation etc)
-Large European cities have a history of foreign/non-local quarters/ghettos in their territory. Is it a part of 'who we are' to maintain this tradition? Are there benefits to that kind of set-up?
-If Blacks/Mexicans were confined to their hoods (with no gibs) and Jews were restriced in their influence over us--would Alt-White continue to exist?

Anonymous Rhino September 28, 2016 9:11 AM  

Behold the rise of the ARINOS!

Blogger Scott Birch September 28, 2016 10:41 AM  

Congratulations Vox & Spacebunny

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric September 28, 2016 1:43 PM  

-If Blacks/Mexicans were confined to their hoods (with no gibs) and Jews were restriced in their influence over us--would Alt-White continue to exist?

Without gibs, most of them (especially the Mexican—and I use that word loosely, since more and more it really refers to Central Americans who have merely passed through Mexico rather than actual Mexican nationals, but I don't care enough to really make a distinction—would simply go home. What do they have in America that they want? A very high percentage—in the 80s—are here for the money and the gibs and have no intention of staying. Combine the "no gibs" and "ethnic barrios" along with e-verify, and most of them have no reason to stay.

I wonder about the Jews. In England and France, they're already making aliyah in record numbers and they haven't been specifically excluded from anything yet. Should we expect the same thing here?

Blogger Robert What? September 28, 2016 5:17 PM  

As I've said before, the Alt-White is a dead end in the US. This country will never again be 90% White. The best you can hope for is, post collapse, a breakup into racial sections. But then within a generation these sections will further Balkanize into micro-ethnic sections. The Czechs and the Slovaks couldn't even keep it together.

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