ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Friday, October 21, 2016

Mailvox: the righteous need no allies

Clearly the reader's concerns are misguided. After all, America is the exceptional nation and superpowers need no friends.
In the meantime, while the major news networks are getting the vapors over whether Trump said something rude about women eleven years ago and their utter horror at his refusal to promise to be a better loser than Al Gore was in 2000, the President of the Philippines has announced that his country is breaking away from the United States and realigning with China.

That's right. One of our oldest and best allies in the Pacific Rim has decided to sever ties with the U.S. and ally with China instead. Obama has lost the Philippines.

You'd think someone in the American news industry would take notice. At least, they might pick up on that loud rumbling in Norfolk, Virginia, where General Douglas MacArthur spins like a lathe in his grave.
The American Empire is crumbling, within and without.
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte announced Thursday that he was “separating” from the United States and embracing China as the new best friend of the Philippines. The 71-year-old president, famous for blunt, often profane rhetoric, announced his country’s realignment in a state visit to Beijing, where he was hailed as China’s new “brother.’’

“Your honors, in this venue, I announce my separation from the United States … both in military, but also economics,’’ Duterte said to thunderous applause at a forum inside the Great Hall of the People, the bastion of the Chinese Communist Party. Without the United States, he said addressing the Chinese audience, “I will be dependent on you.”

During the visit, China and the Philippines are signing agreements for $13.5 billion in trade deals. The Philippines also said China had committed itself to $9 billion in low-interest loans. And the Philippines offered to open negotiations with China over disputed fishing waters in the South China Sea, a surprising change of policy given that an international tribunal in The Hague had ruled in July against China’s claim of historical rights to the waters.

Duterte, who took office July 30, had other choice words for the United States during his Beijing visit. He said that "America has lost now” and suggested that he was also eager to cozy up to Russian President Vladimir Putin. “I’ve realigned myself in your ideological flow and maybe I will also go to Russia to talk to Putin and tell him that there are three of us against the world — China, Philippines and Russia,’’ he said.
On the plus side, at least Obama lowered the seas and healed the nation's racial scars.

Labels: ,

205 Comments:

1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Frank Lin October 21, 2016 6:06 PM  

I rather like this new post racial America where I have neither race nor am American.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 21, 2016 6:07 PM  

What Asian contrarian leader has not said America is done? They all say it, From Singapore to Japan basically the same thing, America is becoming a third world cuntry from immigration, and it is.


If you are suprised that a leader from a weak country in Asia said and did this (sell out to a strong China) you might be a moron

Blogger Ezekiel October 21, 2016 6:08 PM  

Saw a Russian flag flying here in Alabama recently. You think the media will take notice when parts of CONUS start splitting for the Shanghai Pact?

Anonymous JAG October 21, 2016 6:08 PM  

We are just lucky that our military is so cutting edge in modern warfare with advanced tactics like humiliating your soldiers by making them wear high heels, and giving them sex changes. If we find ourselves alone in a World War, we got this. The enemy won't know what hit them.

Anonymous Steve October 21, 2016 6:15 PM  

Saw this the other day and was surprised it wasn't getting more attention. The Philippines may not be a major world power, but they're a major Pacific Rim nation and they've been closely tied to the United States since Victorian times.

Empires shouldn't expect to be loved, but when they're no longer feared by second-string foreign nations the jig is up.

The US government is a hegemon that nobody fears or respects anymore. The Chinese, Russians, Filipinos and others reckon Obama is an impotent clown. If he's replaced by Druggie McShitpants, who (when she's compos mentis) fantasises about droning foreign capitals and ringing China with missile bases, open confrontation with the US can't be far off.

Anonymous johnc October 21, 2016 6:16 PM  

I suspect a lot of Asian nations -- aptly discerning that China is stronger than America -- will seek the protective umbrella of China rather than the one America offers.

Note that the Philippines will still be taking all of our foreign aid cash, of course. And we'll keep on shovelling it to them, also.

Blogger Mountain Man October 21, 2016 6:17 PM  

"The American Empire is crumbling,"

..Amen ! Its about time..
Now maybe we can begin the deportations, take our country back and rebuild our domestic infrastructure.

Blogger ace October 21, 2016 6:17 PM  

On the plus side Japan, per Huntington, will never be in the Chinese sphere of influence as long they can avoid it. That means they're our natural allies unless we fuck up real bad.

Let's cut them loose. Manchukuo 2025 or bust. We won't get our panties in a twist this time.

Anonymous Ron October 21, 2016 6:18 PM  

He is an older man. When he dies China will replace him with a total puppet they can control absolutely. At that point the Filipine Islands will be forever lost to the West.

Anonymous Down and Out in... October 21, 2016 6:18 PM  

From what I understand (but I got this via third party, so correct me if you know better), there is a substantial bloc in Chinese military thinking which says, basically: China does not have to actively do anything to defeat the United States, merely sit and wait, because US is enthusiastically destroying itself from within through mass non-white immigration. Simply sit tight for another generation or two, and the whole thing will topple without Chinese provocation, then simply sweep in and pick up the parts our overseas operatives haven't purchased already.

Diversity is strength. Hell, even An Lu-shan knew that, right? Right?

Blogger Salt October 21, 2016 6:21 PM  

The Philippines is a logical extension since the Chinese have effective control over the Panama Canal. Soon I'd expect them to make a bid on Hawaii.

Blogger tridekka October 21, 2016 6:21 PM  

The novel Victoria keeps Russian and post-US politics on my mind every day. The more the entrenched elite fight Russia, the better an option it seems.

Anonymous VFM #7916 October 21, 2016 6:25 PM  

@12 A lot of Victoria makes sense these days.

Frankly, the most horrific part was about Cascadia.

Blogger Bob Loblaw October 21, 2016 6:25 PM  

I would be shocked if Dutarte isn't assassinated or deposed. The PI military was happy with things as they were.

Blogger Mountain Man October 21, 2016 6:25 PM  

"He is an older man. When he dies China will replace him with a total puppet they can control absolutely. At that point the Filipine Islands will be forever lost to the West."

Oh heaven forfend.
Imperialism must continue ad infinitum...even if it adds another 20 trillion to the national debt.
Our arrogant,blithering stupidity , masquerading as foreign policy and diplomacy, can't die quick enough.

Anonymous nil October 21, 2016 6:26 PM  

America is not an empire. America is the main colony of a globalist empire. This is a good thing.

Blogger Eric Mueller October 21, 2016 6:27 PM  

Gotta wonder how bad you have to be to lose what was probably the MOST pro-American nation on the planet.

I served in the Navy, mostly on the "left" coast, and knew a lot of Pilipinos. Since conquering that nation from Spain, we had a pretty good relationship with them. Oh, well, "The Obemessiah" obviously knows what he's doing, being a great leader and all that...

Blogger Lovekraft October 21, 2016 6:32 PM  

You have to see the two photos on the bottom of this Heartiste post about Trump's catholic dinnerwhatever speech.

It's called hitting a bullseye:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2016/10/21/trumps-revenge/#comment-811021

Blogger Mountain Man October 21, 2016 6:33 PM  

OT but.. the Amish are going crazy with chainsaws again.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/719064/Minsk-shopping-centre-attack-Belarus-breaking?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term

I can't wait to see the day when they are all deported en mass...even if it involves kicking them out of airplanes...yes even the women and children.

Blogger Lovekraft October 21, 2016 6:34 PM  

On topic, Canada rejected a trade deal with Europe. More signs the globalist fabric is coming unraveled. Of course, this is Canada, so it is probably some spat over Justin and LePen.

Blogger Student in Blue October 21, 2016 6:36 PM  

Considering how based on lies the Chinese economy is, even with how much of a boor the US is, is allying with China economically even a good idea?

Blogger Mountain Man October 21, 2016 6:37 PM  

"making them wear high heels,"......" The enemy won't know what hit them."

Its called The Stiletto In The Eye Maneuver. Cutting edge 4G form of fighting!

Anonymous Alexander October 21, 2016 6:38 PM  

Probably a good time to bail on being viewed as a giant American military base *before* the American (((elite))) declare war on Russia.

Duterte is smart.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents October 21, 2016 6:38 PM  

All they need now is Japan and Viet Nam - poof, the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is revived.

Blogger Unknown October 21, 2016 6:44 PM  

Don't need the Philippines, we have far too many of them in the military (both in uniform and as civilians) as it is. Certain job fields in the Navy are almost entirely ran by them. My first ship was loaded to the gills with them, and they blatantly discriminated against me because I was white, so PI can go get bent, AFAIC. I'd kick every single one of them out if it were up to me.

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 21, 2016 6:45 PM  

To me, it looks like the 1898 historical dispensation parenthetical that started with the Japanese occupation is closed. Back to Spanish conquest ante. Good for all.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 21, 2016 6:49 PM  

Considering how based on lies the Chinese economy is, even with how much of a boor the US is, is allying with China economically even a good idea?

Considering how based on lies the US economy is...

Blogger Johnny October 21, 2016 6:50 PM  

It is not so much us failing as the whole western cultural region. Along with not being as tough as we used to be, under Obama we have an expanded tendency to push our cultural BS stuff on other countries. That may well be what triggered Duterte to start thinking about China.

Anonymous Greg October 21, 2016 6:52 PM  

"On topic, Canada rejected a trade deal with Europe. More signs the globalist fabric is coming unraveled. Of course, this is Canada, so it is probably some spat over Justin and LePen."

It was Wallonia, apparently.

Blogger Thucydides October 21, 2016 6:53 PM  

While Duterte and his successors will be feeling buyer's remorse in fairly short order, the situation for them is like being trapped in a burning building. Obama's fire department may or may not "Pivot" to save you, while the Chinese arsonist will "save" you for the right price (South China Sea).

And of course the Chinese have potentially found their gap in the "First Island Chain".

As the Chinese curse goes: "We WILL live in interesting times".

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 21, 2016 6:57 PM  

Combat stilettos are only effective in urban warfare, specifically ballroom grounds and, then, only in backwards moves.

Anonymous ugruk October 21, 2016 7:01 PM  

@9 "At that point the Filipine Islands will be forever lost to the West."

I don't give a damn. The West is about to be lost to the West.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 21, 2016 7:06 PM  

Rodrigo Duterte is basically the Donald Trump of the Philippines. He plays to spirit of Philippine nationalism.

Obama has been snubbing them for a while and doing so in ways they find particularly offensive.

Obama's personal zeitgeist is built around his adopted anti-colonialism. And he clearly felt that the Philipines weren't anywhere near anti-colonial enough towards the United States.

And Duterte played that back on him. Currently he enjoys a 91% approval rating but that could vanish in a heartbeat. The Filips are nothing if not passionate.

His "separation" didn't go over that well with the Filipinos. So now he's "adjusting his comments".

Anonymous JI October 21, 2016 7:07 PM  

Duterte appears to have a personal hatred of Obama. My wife is from the Philippines, and she became quite depressed back in 2008 when Obama was elected. She had been in the US for five years at that point, and his election crushed her vision (illusory though it may have been) of what America should be.

I'm with Johnny in Post #28 that the SJW nonsense that the US is trying to inflict on other nations may just be at the root of Duterte' dislike of the US gov't and particularly Obama. My wife simply can not understand the liberal, never mind the hardcore SJW, points of view. They are like aliens speaking gibberish as far as she is concerned.

Anonymous ugruk October 21, 2016 7:09 PM  

@16 "America is not an empire. America is the main colony of a globalist empire."

This x1000. The globalist aristocracy encompasses many ruling elites. We are simply the largest single productive national element in the archipelago of colonies. Globalist vermin in Washington DC and New York don't look down on the rest of us and see fellow Americans, they see peasants who differ from Bangladeshi farmers and Chinese slave factory workers only in that we still might be able to stop them. If the Hildebeast wins, gun control will be their highest priority.

Blogger Rek. October 21, 2016 7:10 PM  

Not so. Wallonia rejected a trade agreement between Europe and Canada. Canada went back home weeping. And the Eurocucksocrats (fucking Junker) are pissed to say the least.

Blogger Unknown October 21, 2016 7:15 PM  

The end of the American Empire may well signal the revival of the American Nation. History may see Obama as a great American hero and secessionists as rats who left a sinking ship.

Blogger pyrrhus October 21, 2016 7:18 PM  

The South China Sea has little value to the Philippines, or anyone who is not a great power in the area. The hydrocarbons there are far too expensive to extract currently, and no matter what an international "court" says, China will have veto power over the area for an indefinite time.

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 7:18 PM  

"That may well be what triggered Duterte to start thinking about China."

Duterte was a student of Jose Maria Sison, the Maoist founder of the New Peoples Army. He was a fair bit anti-American to begin with. There has always been a strong (but electorally incapable) radical left wing there. There isn't much left of communism, or socialism even, but the pro-China thing has stuck.

The more proximate problem was brought up by Duterte's Secretary of Defense. The Philippines is simply indefensible. Its extraordinarily vulnerable to disruptions of external and internal trade - its an archipelago and depends on interisland logistics, and imports much of its needs, including nearly all its fuel. It can't live through a blockade or a threat of a blockade. No need to invade, just make it dangerous to ship stuff there, and inside there, and it will shortly starve. And to oppose an air and naval threat from China (its in range of hundreds of Chinese anti-shipping aircraft) that would disrupt its trade it would require the high-technology military of a superpower. Easy to attack, near impossible to defend.

Worse, its desirable real estate. Hold bases there and you can interdict all trade along the East Asian rim. The US took it back in WWII in part to absolutely and finally seal Japan off from its oil supplies. And so today.

In the last two decades the Philippine military wanted serious aid to actually create a viable defense, but the US, Korea and Japan, all stakeholders in keeping the sealanes open, simply weren't forthcoming. They gave them castoffs like the useless ex-USCG Cutter Hamilton.

And then the artificial islands. The Chinese are building missile bases and airfields on those things. These are intended mainly to control the South China Sea, to be in a position to license trade through there. And not coincidentally, bring the Philippines within range of even more Chinese weapons. The US and its allies completely failed to stop this. Belatedly the US started some rather pathetic steps to put in some HIMARS missile units there, presumably to be able to shoot back at those islands, but way too little and useless against any primary threat.

The Philippines has a choice - make a favorable deal now or wait for a crisis when the Chinese openly blackmail them with a threat of blockade. And this with no assurance of effective backup from anyone.

Blogger pyrrhus October 21, 2016 7:22 PM  

I know from personal experience that many Chinese, both mainland and Taiwanese, businessmen operate factories, and no doubt other businesses in the Philippines. They are essential to the economy, and will also have some influence with the Chinese government....It seems like a good match, since the Filipinos aren't often entrepreneurs with capital.

Blogger Geir Balderson October 21, 2016 7:23 PM  

Gosh, that hurts! We will have to hire new letter carriers as the majority of them, in our area, are of Filipino extraction. OBAMA!!!!! (He says in his best Captain Kirk Khan voice.)

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner October 21, 2016 7:25 PM  

I would say China's corruption is a better match for the Philippian people.

OT:Obama appoints someone that sucks more cock than the new ((((Steve)))) to undermine the border patrol. http://www.vdare.com/posts/new-border-patrol-chief-mark-morgan-more-interested-in-changing-the-border-patrols-culture-than-stopping-illegal-immigration

"making them wear high heels,"......" The enemy won't know what hit them."

To many jokes about this for me to resist, Kratman didn't like this parody.

Queen Berets
Fighting soldiers on heels high
Fearless men’s hair purple dye
Men who are mean as they sashay
The brave femen of the Queen Beret

Silver balloons as fake breast
These are men, America’s left behest
One hundred men we'll HIV test today
But only thirty three win the Queen Beret

Trained to live, off welfare's land
Trained in combat, purse to hand
Men who dance by night and day
Bathroom Creep, from the Queen Beret

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr October 21, 2016 7:27 PM  

I suspect Cataline and Jl are right. This is a temporary shift. Obama has been the most consistently obnoxious jerk I've ever seen when it came to foreign policy. He goes out of his way to poke allies in the eye.

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 7:27 PM  

If you want to know more about Duterte and where he is coming from, there is an excellent Al-Jazeera interview here.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2016/10/exclusive-rodrigo-duterte-war-drugs-161015100325799.html

There has been very little speech from him on US news.
An interesting fellow to say the least.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 21, 2016 7:27 PM  

All they need now is Japan and Viet Nam - poof, the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere is revived.

@24 Paradigm
Unlike the Philippines, which is a little ways away, Vietnam is deeply distrustful of China and fears being dominated by it. In fact, it has been cozying up to both the USA and Russia.

And the Japs, of course, see the Chinese in much the same light as Germans historically saw the Russians: as technologically backward bumpkins but dangerous due to their sheer numbers.

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 7:31 PM  

"Unlike the Philippines, which is a little ways away, Vietnam is deeply distrustful of China "

The Philippines is deeply distrustful of China. Filipinos have an ancient anti-Chinese bias going back centuries. The Chinese are the most disliked country in all Philippine opinion surveys.

This bias can be brutal. When I was a kid the saying went that a Chinese could not fall asleep in Batangas (province), because of course he would not wake up.

Blogger pyrrhus October 21, 2016 7:32 PM  

"He is an older man. When he dies China will replace him with a total puppet they can control absolutely. At that point the Filipine Islands will be forever lost to the West."
I find Filipinos to be very friendly and likable people. But they are not a natural US ally and unless you want to fight wars in the Far East, probably a big negative. The islands are greatly overcrowded, very poor, and lots of unemployment. More than 300 different languages are spoken in the 7000 islands, so English is the official language. Let the smarter asians deal with them, it will only be a money sink for the US.

Blogger Lazarus October 21, 2016 7:35 PM  

Unknown wrote:The end of the American Empire may well signal the revival of the American Nation. History may see Obama as a great American hero and secessionists as rats who left a sinking ship.

Italy is way more fun now than when it was the Roman Empire, and so can America.

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 7:35 PM  

"All they need now is Japan and Viet Nam "

Hold the Philippines and you have Japan by the throat. And Vietnam has no way to trade across a Chinese lake either. Either the USN guarantees freedom of the seas, or these will indeed be Chinese puppets.

Or Japan obtains nukes.

Anonymous Steve October 21, 2016 7:41 PM  

Italy is way more fun now than when it was the Roman Empire, and so can America.

Damnatio ad bestiam or GTFO.

Buwaya - I've always been prejudiced in favour of Filipinos for the completely daft reason that Johnny Rico was Filipino.

In every soldier's heart in all the Infantry
Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young.

OpenID basementhomebrewer October 21, 2016 7:48 PM  

It couldn't possibly be because bath house barry appointed a faggot to be the ambassador to the Philippines...

Blogger Ingot9455 October 21, 2016 7:53 PM  

And of course the continual problems with the Muslims in the southern Phillipines. I would put money down that Obama's supporting them somehow just on general principles, even while appearing to 'fight' them.

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 8:02 PM  

" I've always been prejudiced in favour of Filipinos"

Entirely coincidentally, so have I!

BTW, the Philippines was an allied country in WWII, fighting with all its ability, limited though that was, and suffering accordingly. It was attacked simply because it contained US military installations that were a threat to the Japanese southward expansion. The Philippine Government of the day (1940-41) tried what it could to secure a deal whereby the Japanese would recognize its neutrality in exchange for the withdrawal of US forces, but the US would not oblige. So it took one for the team.

And the Philippine Army straggles past,
Obsolete rifle without a sling,
And a bolo tied with a piece of string,
Coconut hat and canvas shoes,
And shoddy dust white denim blues.
These are the men who have fought and fled
And have fought again and left their dead ...
Who fought and died as the white man planned
And never quite learned to understand.

Abucay Withrawal, Henry G. Lee

Blogger Kona Commuter October 21, 2016 8:02 PM  

Maybe the Philippines remember the Philippine–American War in 1899 and hold resentment?

Anonymous VFM #6306 October 21, 2016 8:05 PM  

The Phillipines are
a) not going to hurt themselves with the US by pissing on the US and
b) not going to help themselves by staying cold with China, so why not?
Obama looks like a 2nd rate Egyptocrat anyhow.

But damn, you have to be less competent than a teenage model UN kid repping Venezuela to drive the Fillies off.

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 8:08 PM  

"Maybe the Philippines remember the Philippine–American War in 1899 and hold resentment? "

The resentment never entirely went away. These things are complex.
Philippine communism, for instance, was always hyper-nationalist and worked off that resentment.
Thats the intellectual atmosphere Duterte came from, he went to college in the 1960's when the intellectuals were all Maoist-nationalists.
The common people very rarely were, which is why communism never got very far.

Anonymous Toby Temple October 21, 2016 8:12 PM  

With what IC ruling regarding Philippines' economic zone in South China Sea basically unimposable without going to war with China, how should Philippines play its hand when its closes Superpower ally would not guarantee aide if push comes to shove? We have no other choice but to pick the side that will open the said area to us. China isn't relinquishing that group of Philippine Islands ever. And we cannot fight them back.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 21, 2016 8:18 PM  

Maybe the Philippines remember the Philippine–American War in 1899 and hold resentment?

They have a stronger memory of the Japanese occupation and who ended it.

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 8:22 PM  

"They have a stronger memory of the Japanese occupation and who ended it."

Yes. That's a big reason why they like you guys. You are their tribe, blood brothers. Stanley Karnow gets a lot wrong, but he gets this analysis right - read "In Our Image" for a bit of US history nobody teaches.

Blogger LonestarWhacko October 21, 2016 8:22 PM  

Japan is starting to rearm. They're certainly Capable of producing nuclear weapons and cruise missiles. Boosted fission would be my guess. They've started openly veneration their war dead, and in fact the Japanese Government is taking part in rearing.

Thing is, they have to go nuclear in a hurry. They don't have a lot of spare population. Thar has always been the nightmare for Asia. Japan can't trust us anymore. Neither can the Philippines. Korea?

Blogger J Van Stry October 21, 2016 8:30 PM  

So, just where can a white person move to these days and not be treated like shit?

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 8:31 PM  

"So, just where can a white person move to these days and not be treated like shit?"

Alaminos, Pangasinan
Its pretty there.

Blogger J Van Stry October 21, 2016 8:33 PM  

@60, for Japan to go nuclear, it would simply take them pulling an all-nighter. They could do it in a weekend, they're not stupid.

Blogger J Van Stry October 21, 2016 8:35 PM  

@62 The phillipines are now aligned with china (see article above) and are no longer friendly to 'Americans' i.e. white people. Yeah, not a safe place to go anymore.

Anonymous Sharrukin October 21, 2016 8:38 PM  

That was fast.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-21/make-wish-list-russia-tells-duterte-new-asian-axis-forms

"Make A Wish List" Russia Tells Duterte, As New Asian Axis Forms

Russia’s ambassador to the country promptly said Moscow is ready to provide assistance to and fully cooperate with Manila.

"Formulate your wish list. What kind of assistance do you expect from Russia and we will be ready to sit down with you and discuss what can and should be done,” Russian Ambassador Igor Khovaev told GMA News on Friday. He then went on to state that Russia is open to working with the Philippines in “any area, any field of possible cooperation.”

The ambassador assured the news outlet that Moscow would not “interfere with the domestic affairs of a sovereign state,” and that the “true Russia” is much different than the one portrayed in Hollywood films. Khovaev added that the Philippines and Russia “deserve to know each other much, much better.”

Blogger buwaya October 21, 2016 8:43 PM  

"and are no longer friendly to 'Americans' i.e. white people. Yeah, not a safe place to go anymore."

? They love you guys. Irrespective of alliances. Go, see.

Anonymous Anonymous October 21, 2016 8:47 PM  

"Joel on the locusts" said: 58, 59, and 63 are of course, correct. As for me, I want God's will to be done, and I pity the Dutertes of this world just as much as I pity many of the people who cause him to be so angry. As a true American, who cares little for whether gratitude has been shown where it is deserved, I forgive him his lack of gratitude, to the extent that I have the right to forgive; but he needs our prayers. It is good to be excitable but it is better to be wise.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer October 21, 2016 8:55 PM  

China does not have to actively do anything to defeat the United States, merely sit and wait, because US is enthusiastically destroying itself from within through mass non-white immigration.

When you have a country that is thousands of years old, I'd wouldn't be surprised that there is a cultural component that looks in the long term: like decades. The USA, however, doesn't look beyond the next quarter.

Anonymous Anonymous October 21, 2016 8:58 PM  

Joel on the Locusts said: 58, 59, and 63 nailed it. As a true American, I completely do not care if President Duterte shows gratitude or not - true Americans do not care about or expect gratitude. Anyway, I wasn't one of the hundreds of thousands of Americans who risked their lives for the freedom of the Filipinos from their Japanese neighbors. Let Duterte try to do what is best for the Philippines: they, not us, are his real family. That being said, excitable people need the prayers of those who are willing to pray for excitable people; it is such a temptation for them to say dumb things to impress the people they want to impress.

Anonymous Eric the Red October 21, 2016 9:19 PM  

Too little, too late. The time to have gotten tough with China about the Philippine Spratley's was BEFORE the Chinese built on them. Preventative action would have kept out the Chinese. Effective action now is impossible, fait accompli and all that. Of course the Affirmative Action Pustule knew this all along; his policies have always been to make the US weaker militarily and economically.

Also, Libya was a game-changer for most of the world. Gaddhafi had been moving into being a good little boy for the West, and was marginally a friendly nation. So what does the US do? It overthrows him and turns its back while he's getting reamed. That kind of thing did not go unnoticed in other nations that were ostensibly friends of the US. With friends like the new improved Obamanation, who needs enemies?

Throughout Southeast Asia, the impression from individual people is the same: the US doesn't stand for anything anymore.

May Obama rot in hell for all eternity.

Anonymous Godfrey October 21, 2016 9:20 PM  

Ah... but on a brighter note at least a fifty-five year-old man in a dress can go potty next to your five-year-old daughter.

Please... please keep things in perspective. Saying "pussy" is really bad. Leading the world towards a nuclear holocaust? Not so bad.

Blogger Chris Mallory October 21, 2016 9:22 PM  

buwaya wrote:USN

No business of the US government or responsibility of the American taxpayer payer. Bring all our troops home and ship back anyone of Filipino ancestry. We do not need them in america.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 21, 2016 9:23 PM  

VD:

From the other day:

The trick, I think, will be to watch what happens as the polls go into the final week. If they tighten dramatically, that means the pollsters have been playing games and are attempting to cover themselves, which suggests Trump will win. That's what happened with Brexit.

And we have:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-idUSKCN12L1UI
Reuters: Trump gains on Clinton, poll shows 'rigged' message resonates

"Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump gained on his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton among American voters this week, cutting her lead nearly in half, according to Reuters/Ipsos polling released on Friday."

KEK

Blogger VFM #7634 October 21, 2016 9:31 PM  

The Philippines is deeply distrustful of China. Filipinos have an ancient anti-Chinese bias going back centuries. The Chinese are the most disliked country in all Philippine opinion surveys.

@46 buwaya
Interesting. I understand that Filipinos consider Chinese the "((( ))) of the Orient", so that makes sense.

Anonymous Eric the Red October 21, 2016 9:31 PM  

@70 Chris Mallory..

You're conflating two separate issues...
American troops in foreign bases in foreign wars is definitely a stupid thing to do in Mohammedan countries. However, Philippines and Filipinos have historically been friends, much closer than many other nations. To cast that aside as if it were nothing is a horrible mistake.

You also don't seem to realize that this is a reaction to blunders made by this so-called administration over the last 8 years. The historical angle about the Philippine War is just hyperbole... that wasn't a war with Filipinos, it was a war with Mohammedans.

Obama fucked up this relationship a while ago, and Duterte is just acknowledging that fact.

Anonymous 11B October 21, 2016 9:32 PM  

Will Filipinos now begin to immigrate to China instead of the US?

Anonymous Ron October 21, 2016 9:43 PM  

This won't end well for the Filipinos. As I understand their fellow Asians consider them the "niggers of the Asian world".

The Chinese will exploit the hell out of them once Duterte passes away in a few years, and their hooks will be firmly grasped into their economy and military.

Just like the negros in Africa, once China really gets going extracting all of the resources they can, they will miss YT and our tolerance.

Anonymous BGKB October 21, 2016 9:50 PM  

People linking about the Catholic diner speech, guess who there must be a video of snorting cocaine off a alt_____ _______.

"Cardinal Dolan Spills the Tea on the Al Smith Dinner: Trump Called Clinton ‘Tough and Talented’ in Private"

Gun related "Gay Couple for Trump Not Worried About Death Threats Because They’ve Got a Gun."
http://www.towleroad.com/2016/10/gay-couple-for-trump/

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 21, 2016 9:55 PM  

The phillipines are now aligned with china (see article above) and are no longer friendly to 'Americans' i.e. white people. Yeah, not a safe place to go anymore.

Wrong.

Look, it's complicated. The Filipinos consider themselves to be Westerners or at least Westernized. When I was there they used to say they thought of themselves as coconuts. Brown on the outside, White on the inside.

They are mad at Obama, not us and rightfully so.

The Philippines have always enjoyed Special Relationship status with the US since the post-war years.

Obama loathed them for it, he may as well have been saying, "I consider the Philippines to America's House Nigger in the Pacific." That is the attitude the man radiates.

So of course slapping Obama in the face goes over like fireworks with them.

And you will notice that this happened when Little Barry is politically at his weakest. There will be no reprisals from the pissant because everyone in DC is now feet up, mind in neutral until the new administration moves in three months.

Anonymous Eric the Red October 21, 2016 9:56 PM  

A Trump administration could turn this around in an instant, by simply re-establishing the historically friendly ties with the Philippines. Duterte is a grandstander, but he also delivers on his promises. He was mayor of Davao City on Mindanao, the island that's the hotbed of Mohammedan insurgency since forever. He managed an impressively effective city administration. Now that he's President, he's essentially calling Washington's bluff. He's certainly not so stupid as to believe that China won't eat the Philippines lunch if given half a chance.

A Trump administration would stand for something good again, and the Philippines would understand that. If the Cunt Harridan gets in office, then forget it.

Anonymous Correction October 21, 2016 9:57 PM  

#75
Never heard that before. Another nasty name calling.

For sure, they love singing.

The Philippines was, after World War II, was for a time, regarded as the second wealthiest in East Asia, next only to Japan. It only stagnated when dictator Marcos came to power.

And there are rosy forecasts by economists for Asian countries, including the Philippines.

Anonymous Correction October 21, 2016 10:00 PM  

#75
Never heard that before. Another nasty name calling.

For sure, they love singing.

The Philippines was, after World War II, was for a time, regarded as the second wealthiest in East Asia, next only to Japan. It only stagnated when dictator Marcos came to power.

And there are rosy forecasts by economists for Asian countries, including the Philippines.

Blogger Kona Commuter October 21, 2016 10:04 PM  

@80 -> ahh yes, Marcos. Recall the Nuclear Power Plant White Elephant hoisted on the Philippines. Straight out of "Confessions of an economic hitman"

Blogger buwaya puti October 21, 2016 10:04 PM  

Just to clear a point - or three.
The Philippines didn't invite you over. When Commodore Dewey sailed into Manila Bay, or when the US army sortied out of Manila to fight the Philippine Army in 1899, these were not welcome acts.
Nor was the building of bases. These were accepted as force majeure, that's all.
The gratitude, properly, should go the other way. You guys dragged us into WWII, while our government did everything it could to keep us out of it. The Japs attacked us simply because you had bases there.
And because we kept on fighting, for you. The Malays, Indonesians, Siamese were not treated with the grotesque savagery we were because we were a loyal ally.
And, dragging us into the war, you incompetently failed to keep up your end, providing pathetically insufficient means to keep your enemies away from our population.
You owe us, big time.

Blogger Lazarus October 21, 2016 10:15 PM  

Everybody stand down. It is not what it seems, it seems.


World News | Fri Oct 21, 2016 | 3:08pm EDT
Philippines' Duterte says didn't really mean 'separation' from U.S.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-philippines-idUSKCN12L28T

Anonymous Ron October 21, 2016 10:17 PM  

@82

First off - we owe you nothing. You still owe us for ridding your nation of Small Pox.

Don't be to happy yet. You will miss us once China starts abusing the hell out of your nation.

Blogger LonestarWhacko October 21, 2016 10:22 PM  

#63 I've always thought there was a Nationalist spirit still hanging around Japan. So, that means to me that there's a functional nuclear weapons program that just has to be assembled. No real need to test if they're using an American design, right? Yep, especially if they have some of that nifty simulation software. That's what I was driving at with that boosted fission comment. According to serious heresay, that's what Israel chose to do.

A cruise missile system seems to make the most sense. Does anyone reading this think that Japanese espionage hasn't plundered Boeing et al?

China didn't stop the Korean fat man. So, Japan will do what they're going to do. Proliferation, right?

The Philippines are in a bad fix. Obama is a known liar. Duterte has reason to despise him. Most men understand that Obama is on the down low. American interference in Phillipines internal matters ain't tolerable. Personally, I have no problem with shooting dope dealers. Something has to be done. Americans believe all men are equal. That's pure nonsense. Put it this way.....don't be a real threat to society....and you won't get shot.

Blogger buwaya puti October 21, 2016 10:27 PM  

The Siamese got rid of their own smallpox.
As did everyone else that ruled themselves.

I grew up on the ruins of that war and all the old folks talking about people they knew "antes de la guerra", who did not survive.

So go get stuffed sideways with a long Jap bayonet, why don't you?

Anonymous Eric the Red October 21, 2016 10:31 PM  

@82...
Sounds like revisionist history.
- The US acquired Philippines due to the Spanish American war. The first priority of the US was to establish independence for the Philippines, and they set up in place political foundation for self-rule.
- A quid-pro-quo would be US military bases in the Philippines. That was not such a heinous act at that time, and it was also seen as advantageous to Filipinos for defense.
- WWII got in the way of full independence. The Japanese goal was the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. The Philippines were going to be a part of it regardless of whether they had bases or not.
- Any wars with the Philippines were essentially goaded on by the Moslem population there, again something that Catholic Philippines would have had to deal with no matter who was in charge. So-called atrocities were instead instances of Moslems just doing their standard Moslem thing of killing themselves and everybody around them if they didn't get their way.

Owing bigtime is ridiculous; mutual respect and cooperation can easily be re-established by Trump. If you want to hate Obama be my guest, but don't use him as an excuse to rewrite history.

Blogger ZhukovG October 21, 2016 10:45 PM  

@Eric the Red: The Japanese have nothing on the US in terms of atrocities committed against the Filipino people. Hell, the Japs probably took notes from what we did after the Spanish-American War.

Blogger buwaya puti October 21, 2016 10:54 PM  

Its not revisionist history, its merely "the other side of the story".
Its not a well known story, from whatever angle, because on the whole its not a very popular field of study. There isnt a single good all-encompassing history of the Phil Am war for instance.
The first priority of the US was to destroy the independent Philippine state, in 1899-1902. There WAS a state you know, with a legislature and its own army with drilled, uniformed regiments. You had no business fighting them.
The independence thing only came later when the US government realized it was a bad idea to keep the place - It wasnt till 1916 that the US formally conceded it was going to let it go.
The Phil gov (Quezon) actively tried to get rid of the US bases ASAP in 1940-41 when they saw, accurately, that the US intended to drive the Japs into a corner. This is fact. It was hushed up later because it was inconvenient to the wartime and postwar narrative. But you will find it in every serious work, such as Manchester on MacArthur, and it is not controversial.
The Muslims are in fact a small, small minority in the country and have stood no chance of taking it over since the 17th century. The bulk of the Philippine population hasnt been threatened by Muslims since, oh, the 1840s.
The Muslims however were in the process of getting swamped by Christian settlers even back then, who were invading THEM. My ancestor (distant, by marriage) was the guy who conquered Davao, Dutertes town, from the Muslims in 1847, and brought in Christian settlers. By the 1890s they were swamping the Muslims all over Northern and Eastern Mindanao. These days they are majorities in nearly every "muslim" province.
The Spanish suppressed them but good, and thats been that since. All they are is a painful annoyance.
The Muslims are bloody but ineffectual.
US atrocities were well documented in non-Muslim (very non-Muslim) provinces like Batangas and Samar. This is not controversial either.

Blogger buwaya puti October 21, 2016 11:01 PM  

No, the Japs were very special with atrocities.
The scale was incredible. They killed, one way or another, directly, something like 300,000 people at least. Over 1 million counting starvation. They killed @10% of the population of Cebu privince, by torture and massacre . They killed @3/4ths of MacArthurs Filipino soldiers in death marches and death camps, much of that in episodes that didnt make it into the consciousness of the US public. And no one could beat them for sheer grotesque perversity.

Anonymous Eric the Red October 21, 2016 11:01 PM  

@88 ZhukovG

You are spouting utter BS. I have talked with parents of Filipino friends who were alive during WWII. They relate stories of Jap soldiers spitting babies on bayonets. If you find moral equivalence there with the US, then you can go fuck yourself.

But hey, thanks for the input.

Anonymous Ron October 21, 2016 11:07 PM  

@86

Completely false. The area was rife with Small Pox and the natives simply viewed it as a right of passage for the young to live or die. Their was, at best, a rudimentary vaccination brought by the Spanish that was not effective.

Enjoy living under Chinese rule. I like the fearless leader your people have elected. But he signed your nation away.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 21, 2016 11:08 PM  

@buwaya

I agree that we Americans had no business taking over the Philippines, and that it was totally unjust. Unfortunately, what's done is done and we have to deal with the present... and I do really like what Duterte is doing, and hope we'll be able to elect Trump as our own president.

It looks to me as if the Philippines' relations with Muslims on its territory is somewhat like Russia's?

Anonymous Eric the Red October 21, 2016 11:09 PM  

@89...
The Philippines were under Spanish control at the end of the Spanish American war. Spain was realistically never going to grant full independence to the Philippines, and their lack of anything other than cosmetic self-rule proves it. Philippines were able to achieve it because the US was there and fully understood the necessity.

As for Moslems, I never said that they were in danger of taking over the country. That has never been their goal; instead, they want their own little independent patch with Catholics driven out of it. They will never stop warring with Catholic Philippines until they get want they want or they are utterly destroyed, whichever comes first. So your objections there are a red herring.

As for any atrocities, you fail to understand that if they happened at all, they happened primarily to Moslems, who by their own admission goaded the US into military action and, when faced with defeat, set up and helped perpetrate killing of their own people.

Yes, the "other side of the story" should be considered only if it's not tainted by ignoring the facts.

Anonymous Kolya October 21, 2016 11:28 PM  

Does this signal the return of Art Bell?

Blogger buwaya puti October 21, 2016 11:39 PM  

The Spanish stood no chance of taking the place back in 1899, it was broke, is garrisons had surrendered or defected, and the principal strategic weapon in Asian waters, its Asiatic squadron, such as it was, was sunk. Theres no way it could have even begun to try.
Fait accompli.
The Muslims had their own independent patch since the fall of the Majapahit empire. The Spanish took it; an ancestor of mine was in the expedition that conquered Jolo-Sulu in 1876.
I have been translating a Spanish history of that expedition for the last decade or so. Going slowly.
There is no doubt that a Philippine state would have done exactly what everyone else has done, suppress the Muslims.
What I fail to understand is why you are so certain of things you have not studied. I have spent a good part of my life on Philippine history. Rest assured, there were indeed plenty of atrocities committed by US troops very very far away from any Muslims. They fought a very nasty guerilla war on much of Luzon and elsewhere, notably Samar, which Gen. Smith wanted to make a "howling wilderness". Samar is NOT Muslim and never has been. Our old housekeeper, a Samarena, would have been very surprised by that notion.

OpenID marsascendant October 21, 2016 11:41 PM  

Make no mistake, Duterte is no nationalist. If he were he would be the dancing boy to the Moro's that he has proven himself to be. He does have some admirable qualities, such as his stance on crime, particularly shabu. But he admitted himself in china recently that his policies would make the phills dependent on china, and I can not think of an instance in which becoming a satrapy of China was a good decision. Especially given the Chinese preference for nepotism vs hiring local workers. At best he will become the next Estrada sentenced to reclusión perpetua, less likely is that he will be assassinated by the military who are even now cursing him in english inside of OC's throughout the county. No matter what, his attempt to switch the leash that controls the phills from American to Chinese hands will make an already dysfunctional country already worse.Just look at the movement of the Peso Vs the Dollar in the last couple months to see why. And BTW I say this as someone who benefits more the lower the Peso trades vs the Dollar.

Blogger Lazarus October 21, 2016 11:46 PM  

buwaya puti wrote:There is no doubt that a Philippine state would have done exactly what everyone else has done, suppress the Muslims.

From your quite comprehensive responses, I get the impression that the Phillipines are mostly an anarchic compilation held together by Manila commerce. Is this a function of Phillipino culture or the endless meddling of outsiders?

Blogger Lazarus October 21, 2016 11:54 PM  

Further research tells me that Filipino culture is majority nominally catholic but shame-based, like Arab cultures.

This is a very debilitating combination. Christianity should transform shame cultures into guilt cultures. Obviously this has not been done in the Phillipines.

OpenID marsascendant October 22, 2016 12:01 AM  

Buwaya Puti - Ill believe that bullshit when pinoys stop watching the PBA, when I stop being the center of the expat singularity effect, and when random pinoys stop trying to get my attention from their trucks as I walk down the street. The day y'all shut down the whitening clinics, stop buying gluthiamone, and your biggest stars aren't phil-ams Ill maybe start to believe that the rest of the pinoys are as butt-hurt as you seem to be.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 12:09 AM  

The Philippines is, nearly all of it, a unitary multilingual polity that has been governed as such for over 400 years, longer than Canada or the US. Because of geography and history, notably the policy of the Catholic church to preserve and promote local languages, there are a lot of languages.
But the vast majority speak one or more of just three major ones, Tagalog (Pilipino, the "national language" officially), Visayan in several dialects (which is related to Tagalog about like Portuguese is to Spanish), and Ilocano which is weird. The remainder are numerous but their exclusive speakers are few. It would be like saying the US has a vast number of languages, if one counts such tongues as Souix, Iroquois and Navaho.
Manila has been the capital since 1571 and has served as the HQ for the bureacracy in a classic Bourbon centralized administration. If you need something done, you have to ask someone in Manila. The provinces are tired of this.
Philippine society in general can seem anarchic, as a society, but the government system is highly centralized.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 22, 2016 12:11 AM  

@Lazarus

My impression is that the Philippines are sort of the Italy of the Far East. They're Catholic, across a narrow sea from Muslims, with hundreds of local related dialects, and had to pick one (Tuscan, in Italy's case, Tagalog in the Phils case) to be a standard.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 12:14 AM  

The Philippines relations with its Muslims is very much like Russias; there is a long history of predatory raiding (there on horseback, the Phils by sea), slave-taking, etc. These sources of trouble were both seized progressively in the 19th century. Heh, the timing is also similar.
And the terrorism, revolts, etc. Yes, very similar.

Blogger VFM #7634 October 22, 2016 12:14 AM  

"But the vast majority speak one or more of just three major ones, Tagalog (Pilipino, the "national language" officially), Visayan in several dialects (which is related to Tagalog about like Portuguese is to Spanish), and Ilocano which is weird."

@buwaya
In Italy, there's Lombard and Friulian, which are more like French; there's Neapolitan and Sicilian, which are obviously Italian but quite different from the Tuscan standard; and then there's Sardinian, which is weird.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 12:20 AM  

Im not butt-hurt. The fact is the Filipinos are a remarkably forgiving people and they like you.
Just laying the facts out as they should be.
No more of this nonsense of them owing the US.
It just aint so.
Heck, they have even forgiven the Japs, unlike the rest of Asia.
It took my grandma about forty years, but she actually did forgive the Japs. She told us so.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 12:23 AM  

Pretty much like that.
Spain is similarly diverse, or more than Italy anyway. Italy has nothing like Basque.
I still have some remnants of Basque stuck away in the corner of my skull somewhere.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 12:29 AM  

If the Philippines is a shame culture then so is most of non-Muslim Asia, such as China and Japan and Korea. This does not seem like such a handicap.
More, its much less of a shame culture than some of these others for what its worth.

Blogger Rambam October 22, 2016 12:36 AM  

Can't spell sucks without US.

Blogger Rambam October 22, 2016 12:49 AM  

Can't spell sucks without US.

OpenID peppermintfrosted October 22, 2016 12:51 AM  

» and I can not think of an instance in which becoming a satrapy of China was a good decision

when the alternative is having your domestic policy set by insane Americans and living in slums while Ho Chi Minh City has skyscrapers. But yeah, Duterte definitely wants some Russian partnership agreements so he can maintain his national sovereignty and national character against China.

Blogger Unknown October 22, 2016 1:02 AM  

Can't spell lord of the streets or deflowered rose without the rest of the world.

Blogger Rambam October 22, 2016 1:06 AM  

USA is done. Duterte making right play for his people. Western hegemony, globalism bid will fail.

Blogger pyrrhus October 22, 2016 1:10 AM  

@66 I think the Philippines is still fine for Americans as long as you stay in the right areas, just like most cities in the world. I would stay out of the countryside because of the disease and parasites, amongst other things.

Blogger Rambam October 22, 2016 1:10 AM  

USA is done. Duterte making right play for his people. Western hegemony, globalism bid will fail.

Blogger pyrrhus October 22, 2016 1:11 AM  

@112 I agree, in the long run, China and Russia are the people to ally with....

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 1:13 AM  

pyrrhus wrote:I find Filipinos to be very friendly and likable people.

...until they decide you need killing.

Blogger dfordoom October 22, 2016 1:16 AM  

@28. Johnny

Along with not being as tough as we used to be, under Obama we have an expanded tendency to push our cultural BS stuff on other countries.

With any luck more and more countries will reject the US and its cultural filth.

Blogger dfordoom October 22, 2016 1:20 AM  

@35. ugruk

If the Hildebeast wins, gun control will be their highest priority.

Nonsense. The globalists aren't the least bit concerned about guns. It's the First Amendment that they'll be targeting.

Blogger dfordoom October 22, 2016 1:28 AM  

Eric the Red

Also, Libya was a game-changer for most of the world. Gaddhafi had been moving into being a good little boy for the West, and was marginally a friendly nation. So what does the US do? It overthrows him and turns its back while he's getting reamed. That kind of thing did not go unnoticed in other nations that were ostensibly friends of the US.

No-one with any sense would trust the US today. To be honest the US never could be trusted but at least now the world is waking up to that fact.

The US has no allies, only increasingly nervous vassals.

Anonymous Susan October 22, 2016 1:30 AM  

Duarte is the first Mindanaoan to hold the presidency. His island is the top hotbed of muslim activities in the entire nation. So this guy got elected with a natural born dislike for America which only blossomed to full flower under the Obama presidency.

I think this guy is going to regret bitterly what he is doing. Or maybe he won't but the citizens of his nation will. I do wonder how the trade stuff will shake out. It seems like every other item you pick up at a store now was made in the Philippines.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction October 22, 2016 1:39 AM  

I think this has more to do with the President of the Philippines being angry at Obama. Not too long ago he was complaining that the US wasn't doing enough to to support the Philippines in the South China Sea. If Trumo gets would expect a shift.

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 1:41 AM  

Agreed, Susan. He is taking out huge loans with the Chinks. Billions. He just signed away his own power. The Chinese have just taken ownership of the Filipine Islands.
He just erased his nationalist goals, and handed them over to China, a nation that could not care less.

A very stupid move on his part. An argument could be made that China will be better than US ownership. Perhaps, but he is no nationalist. He essentially opted to kiss another set of boots.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 1:42 AM  

buwaya puti wrote:You owe us, big time.
You, personally, been a parasite sucking on American society and the American economy for decades, just like hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of your fellows.

Debt paid, you little ungrateful shit. Now go home.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 1:45 AM  

Susan,
Ethnically Duterte is Visayan, as are nearly all Christian residents if Mindanao. These are descendants of immigrants into a "wild west" culture. Duterte gets his anti-American instincts from having had Commie professors when he was at college in Manila in the 1960s. I ought to know, I met those characters myself, a bit later. Its not natural-born, it was taught.
Christian residents of Mindanao aren't anti-American, quite the opposite.
Even the Muslim ones aren't, really, but there is the fanatic minority as usual with any Muslim population. Mindanao is only @20% Muslim btw.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 1:48 AM  

Hi Snideley,
Too bad.
Your Commodore Dewey showed up one day and -
Suck, suck, suck ...

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 1:49 AM  

@115

China and Russia don't have the ability to print $US. A very risky move on his part. Like it or not, Russia and China still need our currency.
He took a bold move to spite Obozo. If Trump wins, he might try to get out of the China deal. Very short sighted. The Chinese will colonize their economic and political systems to the point where not a single native Pinoy will have a say about their own sovereign direction. And it will happen very fast.

Blogger VD October 22, 2016 1:56 AM  

You owe us, big time.

And yet, you whine when I point out that you are not, and will never be, an American.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 1:58 AM  

No, Im not. I am a resident, not a citizen.
I am still, dually, a Philippine citizen and a subject of his Majesty Felipe VI

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:01 AM  

And speaking of owe, yes you do, the US has done the Philippines a few bloody great and dirty ones, mainly at the hands of Franklin Roosevelt.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:01 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction October 22, 2016 2:02 AM  

No one cares, not even most Filipinos. Deal with it.

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 2:07 AM  

@128

Even if you acquire citizenship, you will always be a subversive in my nation. We owe you nothing.

As I said above, you and your people are now with China. Therefore we wash our hands of you and your nation. I just hope all foreign aid is cut off to your nation. Now you beg China, not us.
And I hope the easy immigration policy to the US, that you have enjoyed, is immediately re-evaluated and stopped. Now that you favor China, immigrate to China.

We should have a clean break, no money, no more access.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction October 22, 2016 2:09 AM  

No we don't. The only reason the Philippines is even a semi coherent and functional nation is due to US patronage. Frankly, if the Philippines does cut ties then they will be the ones worse for wear not the US. We lose an ally whose only real value is the dirt where we can build a base. Other than that your country brings nothing to the table.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:11 AM  

No one much cares about history really, unless you are from a culture given to chips on the shoulder, like Arabs and Chinese. Filipinos don't care, they arent like that.
But the transnational fraternity of history freaks does. So if you are the right sort of oddball and pick up the relevant US Army "green book" official history volume, in this case Louis Mortons "The Fall of the Philippines", you cannot help but come to my conclusion.

If anyone is interested I can supply a short bibliography for a background on the subject of US-Philippine relations.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction October 22, 2016 2:17 AM  

They aren't though. Duarte is already back peddling and Filipinos like buwaya are in the minority opinion. The US is the most popular destination for the Filipinos who want to emigrate from their country.

What you seeing with Duerte is tone of the 7 deadly sins Filipinos suffer from the most. Excessive pride. Duerte feels slighted and he is reacting in Filipino fashion. It is something I have seen with my in laws and their friends numerous times.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 2:18 AM  

buwaya puti wrote:Hi Snideley,

Too bad.

Your Commodore Dewey showed up one day and -

Suck, suck, suck ...


Yep, Pinoys, sucking Whites for pocket change since Magellan.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:19 AM  

Sigh, here I am helping you guys out with some background on matters of foreign policy, and what thanks do I get? Huh?

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 2:21 AM  

@134

Your time under American protection has passed, and it is a good thing. My only reservation is the new BossMan your leader chose. Not my concern, it is yours.

I am glad we are shedding parasitical third world nations that consume my tax dollars, while at the same time hating, and biting the hand that feeds. Enjoy China. Have fun getting citizenship and free stuff there.

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 2:24 AM  

@137

We don't need your input on foreign policy. You need our foreign policy.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:26 AM  

Is funny. Im supposed to hate you guys because I am educating you. Facts are facts. To obtain an accurate world view you require facts. Here about an important matter in current politics.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:28 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 2:35 AM  

buwaya puti wrote:Facts are facts.

"You owe us." is not a fact. It is an assertion of superiority. You've been living off of us for decades. If you can't be grateful, at least be smart enough to be quiet.

Know your fucking place, which is in the Phillipines. Go home.

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 2:39 AM  

@ 140

No hate involved. Just go home. We don't need your problems. Be a hero and go home - fix your nation, don't preach to us.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:39 AM  

Snidely, get stuffed.

Ron, the whole point, keep up, is that the Phils is NOT credibly under US protection. Thats the cause of this whole business. You, personally, need my input on foreign policy, it seems, because you mouth off without a clue.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 2:45 AM  

buwaya puti wrote:You, personally, need my input on foreign policy, it seems, because you mouth off without a clue.
Secret genius is needed by ignorant White guys to explain foreign policy.
What would we do without the wisdom imparted by our friend here.

Face it. Without US intervention, Philippines would be right up there with Laos and Cambodia. Only more civil war and maybe less heroin.

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 2:50 AM  

@146

You seem to have it backwards. How about you leave my nation and concern yourself with your people.

Be a patriot, and repatriate.

The pandering and tolerance given to immigrants and the arrogance that accompanies them has reached an end. Get the eff out of my nation.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:51 AM  

White man need native guide to know what the jungle drums say. Drums say natives getting blasted.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:52 AM  

White man need native guide to know what the jungle drums say. Drums say natives getting blasted.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 3:00 AM  

Drums say "Time for this one to go home."

If I'm not in the jungle I don't give two farts what the sub-primitives who live there say.

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 3:11 AM  

@150

I don't play with drums. You spoke up this evening, and that is a good thing. Now it is time for you to go home, and be with your people, not run away from them and insult your host nation.

Kick rocks in Manila.

Blogger Casse Vera October 22, 2016 4:04 AM  

Life is all about good and bad experience
Life is all about good and bad experience. It was all good and lovely when i met joelly, she was a good business woman until things become rough for her and her business empire started liquidating. I was a very courageous and hardworking man so i decided to sell my inheritance to assist . We both struggle together and built the business world again. This time around the business was growing from strength to strength. I was surprise one Sunday evening when she came home with her secretary and told me that we cannot continue with this pretense called love. I was shocked and heart broken, i was in a friend, house for three weeks frustrated until i met Fernando my old friend at the supermarket, he directed to me to Dr saka. I contacted saka and he told me that Joelly was been manipulated by some spiritual power and he told me to provide some items which he is going to use to destroy the evil spirit. I never believe in voodoo but i had to give him a trial. To my greatest surprise, Joelly called and started apologizing 2 days after i sent Dr. Saka the email. I am very happy and will continue to be happy for the good work the Saka has done in my life. Problems are been solved when good people like Saka are on this planet, please contact him through ultimatespearcast@gmail.com if you need any support in any problems in life. I love Dr Saka ... :)

Anonymous Ivan Poland October 22, 2016 4:30 AM  

The last king of Hawai'i, Kalakaua, wanted to make an alliance with Japan in the mid 1880s, but they said no. Hawai'i has always looked East. When it is cut free from the American Empire it will probably try to ally with Japan again, hell, the Japanese own huge chunks of the Islands already.

Anonymous Bz October 22, 2016 6:24 AM  

Yet another triumph of the Obama administration. And that's how the cookie crumbles.

Anonymous Steve Trump October 22, 2016 6:51 AM  

Eh. How did this turn into a BOOOO! FILIPINOS! thing?

The Flips aren't your enemy. Great people, good Catholic boys, Duerte is winning bigly. Everybody says so.

Anonymous Discard October 22, 2016 7:38 AM  

Hey, buwaya. Keep swinging. I don't see most things your way, but there's no denying that you guys got invaded and conquered by the U.S. Doesn't matter if the folks we killed were Moslems or not, it wasn't our business, any more than Iraq or Syria. As for WW2, I understand that we were trying to postpone the expected war with Japan long enough to get adequate forces to defend the Islands, but the Emperor had his own timetable. Sucked for your people.

I think of you as the Filipino Tommy Hass.
And BTW, has Tommy gone away?

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 22, 2016 10:21 AM  

I am surprised by some of the teactions to buwaya puti. It shows the hubris that had gotten these uSA into derision. A derision that is well earned and shared by many here.
The what ifs of history? Unanswarable. We can only guess.
Any of you challenging buwaya puti have even read the justifications made in support of taking the Philipines?
It was the Japanese that brought the Filipons and the Americans together. Out of necessity not out of love.
It is like reconstructed Southerners saying they were glad these uSA defeated the South, that the South would be a backwards country otherwise.
We have no business being thousand of miles away. Want to empire? Go volunteer personally and leave.

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco October 22, 2016 11:34 AM  

"No one cares, not even most Filipinos. Deal with it."

Looks like Duterte cares.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 12:57 PM  

On the matter of love - no, the Filipinos do things out of love. It does seem irrational.

This is an important point that Stanley Karnow ("In Our Image") brought up, but he was, in a literary sense, scratching his head in puzzlement throughout.

"Americans die for duty, Filipinos die for love"
- Yay Panlilio, an American hero no-one knows about, but should.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 12:58 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction October 22, 2016 1:18 PM  

@159 Duterte isn't most Filipinos, he has already been forced to back track.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/asia/duterte-china-philippines-us/index.html

Politically Duterte fucked up, the overwhelming majority of Filipinos have a very positive view of the United States and a lukewarm feeling towards China which the South China sea disputes aren't helping. The comment won't tank Duterte's presidency by any stretch of the imagination but it is at odds with the majority of the population. He was elected to combat crime and corruption not because the Filipinos were unhappy with the US.

Now personally? If the Philippines does end up going towards China, so what. Their utility as an ally is marginal at beast. While the people are friendly and hospitable the country is a basket case and their country has been reliant on US assistance to help combat the various rebel groups in Mindano. If it were not for the US, or the Spanish before them, then the Philippines would never have been a unified country.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:02 PM  

True, Duterte is bucking Philippine sentiment.
The Chinese are even less popular than you say, they are feared and despised.
The Philippines is a very weak ally, but the whole point, as with the South China Sea islands and for that matter the events of WWII, is location, location, location.
Its not the Philippines you need to be worrying about, it is Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and to only a slightly lesser extent Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Indonesia, Australia, even India.
The Philippine islands, if the Chinese install bases there, can be used to effectively cut off trade all along the Asian rim whenever the whim takes them. This is probably the single most important trade route on earth.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:08 PM  

And as for being dependent on US aid - that is absolutely not true. US aid to the Phils is a nice to have but geez, we are talking @350million all in, everything, annually, even including projected increases in military aid. Thats 0.6% of the Phil government budget.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:10 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:10 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous TS October 22, 2016 2:16 PM  

"Im not butt-hurt. The fact is the Filipinos are a remarkably forgiving people and they like you."

Wow what BS. Flips are hypersensitive, grudge holding sociopaths, basically not the type of people you would want to be friends with.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 2:26 PM  

TS - issues, dude.
Look within. Self-knowledge eases your path.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 2:31 PM  

On the plus side, at least Obama lowered the seas and healed the nation's racial scars.

Lol! My day just got better.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 2:32 PM  

The significance of this is that Duterte now has outcome independence re: the dollar.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 2:34 PM  

More countries will do this when they see that nothing bad happens, then the dollar will finally collapse and the Atlantic financial alliance with it.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 2:38 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:Considering how based on lies the Chinese economy is, even with how much of a boor the US is, is allying with China economically even a good idea?

Better Gestahl than Kefka.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 2:42 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:buwaya puti wrote:Facts are facts.

"You owe us." is not a fact. It is an assertion of superiority.


It's also a very succinct statement of the fundamental political instinct. "I and others similar to me deserve more resources from the commonweal (because X, Y, etc.), others deserve less (because A, B, etc.)."

Anonymous TS October 22, 2016 2:53 PM  

@buwaya puti

And projection is typical of leftist sociopaths.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 3:09 PM  

"you owe us" is also a moral judgement, and thats what it is in this case. The US took us to war, put us at risk, opened us to the savagery of your enemies, while you failed to defend us. The reason why there were less than 100 servicable fighters in Luzon on Dec 8 instead of, say, 500, was a strategic decision to send most of them to the British; and 100 more with your best pilots (the AVG) to China-Burma. The reason the Philippine army had barely begun to mobilize by that day was because the US hadnt authorized funds to do so. Also the reason training had been poor, why we didnt have hand grenades or mortar ammo or howitzers, simple things all of which were in US stocks. And then there was the gross incompetence of the defective torpedoes. To substitute for an actual fleet you sent 29 submarines, with poorly trained crews, which of course proved nearly useless and incapable of hindering the invasion. And so on and so forth, the list of deficiencies is tremendous.
The devil is in the details, as is most of the truth. Most people dont look for the details.
This is not well known to nearly any of the public, US or Philippine, but it certainly is to any serious scholar.
There is an excellent John Ford movie, "They Were Expendable", about MTB Squadron Three, lost during the campaign. The truth is that everyone there was "expendable" according to US national strategy, including the Filipino people.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 3:13 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Enigma October 22, 2016 3:52 PM  

Duterte is simply anti-American, and he made this move more to spite the US than because it was a smart political move (it wasn't).

Even if he wanted to align with China, there would be no reason to completely "separate" from the US. It's stupid. Not only is it a bad move in regards to the US, it damages relations with Japan and the other ASEAN countries.

Meanwhile a US destroyer challenged China over the Paracel Islands the next day, showing that the US can easily pivot to Vietnam.

I was a huge fan of Duterte as mayor and have followed his rise for years, but his foreign policy is a total trainwreck. He constantly makes bold statements, then has his advisers come behind him the next day to tell people how he didn't really mean it (and that he doesn't actually have the power to do most of the things he declares).

And not only is Duterte anti-American, he's extremely pro-Islam and pro-communist.

Most people don't know that he's actually 1/4 Maranao and has a son who married a Tausug-Maranao woman. Tausug and Maranao being two of the historically Muslim peoples in the Philippines. His grandmother and his grandchildren are both Muslim.

What Duterte's revisionist history doesn't tell you is that Sulu was one of the biggest pirate and slaving hubs in the region for hundreds of years before Americans ever set foot in the Philippines. During that time, they took and sold tens of thousands of Filipino slaves.

The older ones they sold to tribes in Borneo who used them as human sacrifices.

Of course, the Chinese were right there to trade guns for slaves, which the Moros could then use to kill more Filipinos.

The Moros did not fight alongside Filipinos during the revolution, nor during the Phil.-Am. War. In fact, one of the main reasons the US even invaded the Moroland later is because they wouldn't stop raiding and slaving.

And even during the Japanese invasion during WW2, many Moro generals continued to conduct raids and attacks against Filipino soldiers.

Yet Duterte, like all Muslims and Muslim sympathizers, would have you believe that everything was just peace and harmony before Americans arrived.

Is it because the people of Sulu are Tausug, just like Duterte's daughter-in-law and grandchildren?

Everything I've said regarding slavery in Sulu is well-recorded by both Filipino and Western scholars, by the way.

Speaking of WW2, what the "Americans caused the Japanese invasion" crowd fails to point out is that Japan invaded much of East and Southeast Asia before and during the war.

Was the Thai-Burma Railway, Rape of Nanking, and Korean comfort women all America's fault also?

Of course not. The Philippines would've been invaded whether the American military was there or not. Though you could definitely argue that the occupation and destruction wouldn't have been as thorough.

How about the Philippines Revolution? What the historical revisionists don't want you to know is that the early stages of the revolution were a failure.

It was only when the US let them piggyback on the Spanish-American War and destroyed the entire Spanish navy in the Philippines, then blockaded Manila to prevent reinforcements, that the Phil. Rev. was "won" in two months.

Anonymous Enigma October 22, 2016 3:52 PM  

Oh, and did I mention that all of the Filipino revolutionaries killed each other? National heroes like Andres Bonifacio and Antonio Luna were executed/assassinated by their own countrymen.

And the same person who was responsible is the same person who negotiated with the Americans, and also the same guy that switched sides during the Japanese invasion. What a strange coincidence.

Of course, the fact that the US took on the entire Spanish navy while the Filipinos all killed each other over petty disagreements does not fit the "America is so mean" narrative.

Clearly the Phil.-Am. War was not pretty, but it would've been the same result had the US not intervened in Phil. Rev. and let them duke it out with the Spanish.

For those of you keeping score:

America = Fought Spanish and Japanese, colonized Philippines for a few decades

Moros = Enslaved Filipinos for hundreds of years, killed Filipinos during WW2, kill Filipinos today

Meanwhile, Duterte's college professor was a Maoist, and Duterte was also part of a Maoist youth group, Kabataang Makabayan, which later went on to form the Communist Party of the Philippines.

He's since invited those same Maoists into his cabinet.

How many people did Mao kill exactly? I always lose count. Was it 30 million? Or more? And that doesn't even include his support of invasions in Vietnam, Korea, etc.

Meanwhile Duterte is still upset that the US rejected his tourist visa application when he was in college 50 years ago.

Sure, America hasn't always been the nicest, just like every other world power in the history of human civilization, but they've actually treated the Filipinos a lot better than the Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, or Moros ever did.

I honestly thought Duterte was going to be a future great world leader, but he's revealed himself to be totally inept on foreign policy.

Obama is clearly an idiot and US foreign policy has been a disaster for quite a while, but any so-called "separation" has more to do with Duterte's petty grudges over imaginary slights and his brainwashing at the hands of people like Joma Sison and Nur Misuari.

Don't get worked up over the fall of the empire just yet.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 4:03 PM  

buwaya puti wrote:"you owe us" is also a moral judgement, and thats what it is in this case. The US took us to war, put us at risk, opened us to the savagery of your enemies, while you failed to defend us.

So your proposition is, rather than to cut ties with these extortionate psychopaths, to appeal to their benevolent consciences? Are you familiar with the idea that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior?

Anonymous Discard October 22, 2016 4:54 PM  

175. buwaya: Keep your grievances honest. In 1941, the U.S. could not simultaneously supply all the fighters everybody needed overnight. Britain and China were actively fighting, and so were first in line for P-40s.

There were not ample stocks of heavy weapons in U.S. stocks. In 1941, our own men were training with cars bearing signs saying "tank" or "howitzer". Aerial reconnaissance in war games was by civilian enthusiasts who owned small planes.

The Navy had a 15 knot speed limit to save fuel. Destroyers were rotated in and out of service for a year at a time, with half crews, to keep them from rusting away. And when the time came to defend the Philippines, as the Rainbow 5 (?) plan called for, the Pacific Fleet was burning at Pearl Harbor.

And are you suggesting that the U.S. used defective torpedoes in the Philippines, saving the good ones for Britain?

The U.S. was unprepared to fight WW2. The Great Depression had impoverished us. We sent our own men out to fight in inadequate aircraft, undergunned tanks, fragile torpedoes, undertrained sailors and soldiers, and so we owe the Philippines something for that?

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 5:04 PM  

Duterte is everything he appears to be. He's a wild man, a loudmouth, a grandstander, and etc.
Also decisive, perceptive, clever, extremely well spoken and charismatic. He has no great reputation for corruption either. Unlike that other ckever man, Marcos.
There are risks. TBD, and I am no partisan of the man. He could be great or be a disaster.

He may or may not get his way, eventually. However the strategic problem remains and the Phis is between a rock and a hard place.

His mama was most definitely Catholic, she was one of Cory Aquinos yellow ladies and tied in with Cardinal Sins operation. His grandma was Maranao but she married a Catholic.

The US had NOT succeeded in deterring the Chinese. They continue to build away, and military ad to the Phils continues to be pathetic.

Re Moros - I know this thoroughly, thanks. They were a society dependent on piracy and slave-taking. The reason Dutertes Davao was captured in 1847 by my ancestor was because it was the objective of a punitive expedition over acts of piracy.

Thats why Spain crushed them long before the Americans showed up. That was the reason the Spanish fleet was just a lot of little gunboats, it was a counterinsurgency force designed, originally, to keep the Moros suppressed.

By the time of the Phil revolution the Moros were in full retreat, the Spanish held Sulu, Jolo, Tawi-tawi, and the Maranao coast and were colonizing Mindanao rapidly with Christian settlers (such as Dapitan, where they exiled Rizal), and missionaries (ref. "Light Cavalry, Fr. de la Costa).

The situation is even worse for Moros now; they are being crowded out like US Indians. Most places that once were theirs now aren't, they are minorities on their own lands (sounds familiar!). Some of them fight back as viciously as Comanches.

The Phil revolution did fail initially - my great grandpa was one of those Spanish soldiers that defeated the rebels. He surrendered to the US at Manila. Another great uncle of mine was a volunteer for Spain who was killed in 1898.

The US did destroy the Spanish fleet, which was the critical factor of Spanish rule, the only way all the little garrisons could be supplied or reinforced, and moreover Dewey supplied arms to the rebels.

However, in spite of politics and infighting, and a few murders, the Filipino leadership did not "all kill each other", it settled down and there was a Philippine state, and a drilled, organized army with an undisputed national leadership that the US met in the fields outside Manila in 1899, that had been operating as a state for seven months.

Re WW2, other countries in SE Asia, or their native peoples anyway, stayed out of it, letting the elephants battle, and did not suffer as did the Filipinos. Quezon wanted to do as Siam did, bend with the wind. But the US forced a war on them.
If you think this is cowardice, consider the price in women and children.

There have been several Communist parties of the Philippines, KB was the root of the Maoist flavor. One of my great uncles was a founding member of an earlier Moscow-branch one. He was a nut.

KB had lots of members, it was quite the thing at the time (late 60s, "first quarter storm", etc.). Yes indeed, there has always been an intellectual left. I knew lots of them in my student days. Nearly all grew out of it.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 5:18 PM  

The US was ramping up production from 1938 and supplied over 5000 aircraft to the allies 1938-41 (@1000 to France alone, before May 1940). The US delivered under 300 modern aircraft to its units in the Philippines and none to the Philippine air corps. These rose to fight the Japanese Zeroes with P-26 Peashooters.

As for torpedoes, look it up. It was a major blunder by the USN. Its torpedoes were nearly useless in the early war due to bureacratic blunders and corruption. There are many internet sources. A comprehensive study of the US submarine force in WW2 will treat this in detail. I recommend "Silent Victory" Clay Blair, Naval Institute Press.

Anonymous Ron October 22, 2016 6:11 PM  

@181

He signed a very risky contract with the Chinese. He will do just fine. Your nation is now a Chinese colony.
Enjoy!

Blogger SirHamster October 22, 2016 6:18 PM  

buwaya puti wrote:As for torpedoes, look it up. It was a major blunder by the USN. Its torpedoes were nearly useless in the early war due to bureacratic blunders and corruption. There are many internet sources. A comprehensive study of the US submarine force in WW2 will treat this in detail. I recommend "Silent Victory" Clay Blair, Naval Institute Press.

You've posted a lot of interesting history, but defective torpedoes doesn't qualify as a Philippine grievance.

Strategic choices and ineffective US military defense, sure. Equipment failures on the US forces present? A bit of a stretch.

Anonymous Discard October 22, 2016 7:26 PM  

182. buwaya puti: Planes were supplied to France and Britain before we entered the war because they paid for them. Foreign orders were all that kept some aircraft companies alive, because the U.S. was not buying. Congress votes on a budget, you know. Not until after the fall of France did we begin to give away planes via the Lend-Lease program.
Furthermore, many of these aircraft were not at all combat worthy. Most lacked pilot armor or self-sealing fuel tanks, and carried only .30 cal machine guns. Remember the dreaded B-23? Or the B-18, a converted DC-3? Even the B-17s, before the E model, were little more than targets. It was known that some of these planes were deathtraps, but that's what they could get at the time, and they were useful for training crews. And when there was nothing else, White Americans flew them into battle, most notably the torpedo bombers massacred at Midway. So what is the Filipino grievance?
BTW, the P-26 was a suitable opponent to the Japanese A5M, an open cockpit fighter with fixed landing gear. The A6M Zero was unknown to all but a few intelligence people. Yes, the Army Air Corps got the newer planes like the P-36, but the Peashooter was not known at the time to be a suicide machine. Did you imagine that the Army would give its best stuff to the Philippines when there was not enough to outfit our own units? Later, we didn't give our best stuff to the British or ANZACs either. They got P-40s and Lockheed Venturas when our men flew P-38s and B-25s.

Lastly, if you had absorbed what you had read, you'd know it was not corruption that caused us to have poorly performing torpedoes, but budget restrictions. Torpedoes cost $10,000 each, and the testing was inadequate. They could not afford to blow up a million dollars worth of torpedoes for test purposes. The aluminum firing pins were fragile and the depth settings were inaccurate. The testing was all done in cold New England waters, so the torpedoes would run deeper in less dense tropical waters.

Just about everything we did up until 1944 was half-assed, because we were building up our military from a skeleton force. Our men paid for this repeatedly with their lives. What is your beef?

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 7:34 PM  

Re torpedoes - it is just one of many related factors and cases, and yes it does, it speaks to general incompetence and lack of preparedness and long-term stinting of funding - the Navy felt it was too costly to realistically test torpedoes, though other much more poorly funded navies did this as a matter of course. Its in the same category of failing to build dispersal airfields (done within two weeks after the bombs began to fall; there were two years wasted prior), which also had grievous consequences. Its just one thing after another. The mass of these defaults is stupefying.

Anyway, yes it was very significant, the 29 submarines were the main fighting arm of the Asiatic fleet, and against an invasion fleet anchored off an unsheltered beach, and such a target rich environment ( the Japs had to supply off beaches until they took Subic) that would not be seen again in the war, they should have done very well, and hopefully slowed the Japanese logistics to a great degree. That was the planners expectation, and it SHOULD have worked with competent execution.
A surge of so many submarines simultaneously in these waters was never even fractionally approached again in the war; this had even more potential as their base was so close by (Cavite, then Mariveles), just a couple hundred miles from their targets. Transit time was minimal, not the many thousands of miles for later war patrols, and there were lots of torpedoes stockpiled.

But no, even that second-rate attempt to provide a naval force was entirely ineffectual.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 8:07 PM  

The P26 was considered a deathtrap by the Army Air Corps at the time, in contemporary accounts, and was known to be inadequate to intercept Japanese bombers. There WAS intelligence about Japanese capabilities available to USAFFE.

The limit to US aquisition of aircraft 1938-1941 was production, not funds. The armed forces were often frustrated by slow production and priority to foreign contracts.
The planes supplied to Britain/France after March 1941 were "free" via lend-lease. Before that the US purchasing budget was such that these foreign purchased aircraft could have been aquired by the US armed forces; in fact the Joint Chiefs opposed these purchases because they diverted production from US forces. The US was scrambling for planes, grabbing materiel of any sort available that was not earmarked for France/Britain, like a couple of squadrons of Republic P35's from a Swedish order that did get to the Philippines in early 1941.

The fact is that on Dec 8 there were a couple of thousand P40's in the US, en route to Britain, Russia, Burma, China, on the Takoradi ferry route, or in stock in the British Middle East.
In the meantime there were 4-6 squadrons worth of pilots/groundcrew in the Philippines, US and Filipino, with obsolete or no aircraft.
Just one thing.
Lets not discuss tactical bombers which would have been extremely useful in Asia. There were no modern or even functional ones, and a whole group of pilots/groundcrew waiting for planes. In the meantime there were similar thousands of Douglas Boston, Martin, and other modern planes being delivered to the British. And there was a Philippine squadron trying to train on a couple of worn out Martin B10s.

No, the lack of aircraft in Asia was the result of deliberate policy prioritizing production for foreign deliveries, and US forces for European commitments.

The point here is that Roosevelt forced a war on Japan through the embargoes, without adequately providing for the consequences. The US forces in the Philippines were indeed considered a "sacrifice" force. This is fine, to risk your own, they are soldiers and they are yours. But he also risked millions of foreign civilians. They too were the "sacrifice".

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 8:09 PM  

The P26 was considered a deathtrap by the Army Air Corps at the time, in contemporary accounts, and was known to be inadequate to intercept Japanese bombers. There WAS intelligence about Japanese capabilities available to USAFFE.

The limit to US aquisition of aircraft 1938-1941 was production, not funds. The armed forces were often frustrated by slow production and priority to foreign contracts.
The planes supplied to Britain/France after March 1941 were "free" via lend-lease. Before that the US purchasing budget was such that these foreign purchased aircraft could have been aquired by the US armed forces; in fact the Joint Chiefs opposed these purchases because they diverted production from US forces. The US was scrambling for planes, grabbing materiel of any sort available that was not earmarked for France/Britain, like a couple of squadrons of Republic P35's from a Swedish order that did get to the Philippines in early 1941.

The fact is that on Dec 8 there were a couple of thousand P40's in the US, en route to Britain, Russia, Burma, China, on the Takoradi ferry route, or in stock in the British Middle East.
In the meantime there were 4-6 squadrons worth of pilots/groundcrew in the Philippines, US and Filipino, with obsolete or no aircraft.
Just one thing.
Lets not discuss tactical bombers which would have been extremely useful in Asia. There were no modern or even functional ones, and a whole group of pilots/groundcrew waiting for planes. In the meantime there were similar thousands of Douglas Boston, Martin, and other modern planes being delivered to the British. And there was a Philippine squadron trying to train on a couple of worn out Martin B10s.

No, the lack of aircraft in Asia was the result of deliberate policy prioritizing production for foreign deliveries, and US forces for European commitments.

The point here is that Roosevelt forced a war on Japan through the embargoes, without adequately providing for the consequences. The US forces in the Philippines were indeed considered a "sacrifice" force. This is fine, to risk your own, they are soldiers and they are yours. But he also risked millions of foreign civilians. They too were the "sacrifice".

Blogger JaimeInTexas October 22, 2016 9:59 PM  

Guys. Much better discussion.
Management of limited resources is not necessarily evidence of abandonment.

Anonymous Discard October 23, 2016 1:22 AM  

Too bad that eight-star Admiral-General puti was not in command of all U.S. forces in the world and the U.S. Congress too.

We know now that the torpedoes were defective. But not enough people in positions of authority did then. If they had, they would have made the simple fixes that, in the end, did solve the problems. Do you think that the Navy WANTED bad torpedoes?

We know now that not enough money was being spent on military affairs, but back then, many thought that the military was just war hungry. We had a near if not solid majority in this country that was isolationist.

Equipment was sent to war zones before possible war zones, to countries at war instead of countries that might soon be at war. If you have a fire, do you direct you hose at the fire, or at the building next door that might catch fire?

Roosevelt believed that Germany was a greater threat than Japan, and spread out resources accordingly.

The subs in the Philippines were mostly S boats, slow, worn out craft with old technology. Few of them ever sank anything. The more modern fleet submarines were intended to scout for and accompany the battle fleet, not as commerce raiders or for coastal defense. There were not enough modern boats to go around so the S boats remained in service.

Any pilot., given a choice between a P-26 and a P-36, would claim the older plane was a death trap. Doesn't mean that it was. As it happened, both were death traps when matched against an A6M Zero. But while some intelligence and staff officers had heard of it, it was a complete surprise to most, including the British. They were shocked that their Spitfires did so poorly against it.

Like I wrote, we were building up from a skeleton force. Obsolete ships and aircraft were used when that was all that was available. Not until 1945 did we field a tank to match the Panzers Mark 5 and 6. The earliest B-24s from Ford's Willow run plant, built by auto workers, had hundreds of defects, but were sent into battle anyway because that's what we had to fight with. Do you think the Navy would not have preferred to replace their TBDs with faster torpedo bombers, rather than lose 90% of them, with their crews, at Midway?
The U.S. did not hit its stride until 1944, in weapons, tactics, and training. Why is this an offense against the Philippines? Blame us for conquering you in 1902, and I'll take your side. But blaming us for getting our asses kicked by Japan?

Blogger JP October 23, 2016 1:29 AM  

That's because you were Roosevelt's sacrificial pawn to start a war with Japan. Maybe he didn't expect Pearl Harbor, but he sure as shit expected the Philippines to be hit.

Not sure if that means you guys were owed anything, because maybe Japan would've just done it anyways if the US was never there... But it sure is a dirty deed, and it puts to lie any bullshit about the US empire being meant to protect the poor locals.

Blogger buwaya puti October 23, 2016 3:10 AM  

Discard,

Taking it from the top - what made sense for US grand strategy was a matter for the US leadership. What they should have done prudentially for the sake of the US is just that, for the sake of the US. I am not going to second guess them; this strategy worked superbly, as far as US interests went.

From the Philippine point of view, which is what I am trying to explain, this was a very different matter. What made sense for the US was a betrayal of responsibility for its dependent people. The US prevented the Philippines from its own preferred foreign policy, which was not what the US government had decided on. That brought a moral - moral, not grand strategy - responsibility on the US to protect this people whose interests it was overriding. You are responsible for the people you hold in bondage, if you subject them unwillingly to danger.

The subs in the Philippines included exactly 6 S-boats out of 29. Good lord, Its anywhere on the internet. Look up Asiatic Fleet submarines. Read Clay Blair too, ref above.

The fleet submarines were mainly tasked with sinking Japanese merchant shipping; thats nearly all they did for most of the war, including the classes present in 1941. Thats what they were tasked to do in Dec 1941 - they were dispatched to sink Japanese shipping in the South China sea. Read Clay Blair, he summarizes just about every patrol.

Part of the default of responsibility is the matter of incapacity. That includes incompetence and negligence, as with the torpedos. If you accept the responsibility to protect someone but fail through faults that any reasonable person should have guarded against, that too is a moral failing.

And there were so many of these.

There were no Curtis P36's in the Philippines. There was an unlucky US squadron still using worn out Republic P35's at Del Carmen. All the US fighters in the pipeline were P40's.

Ref, free, "They Fought With What They Had" Edmonds, the USAF official history. Look it up. Much to learn there.

There were thousands of P40's available, just not sent to the Philippines. At that very moment, Dec 8, there were 100 in Burma, meant for China, along with a collection of the best pilots the US had. If they had been in dispersed strips on Luzon along with the other hundred the Japs would have had to wait a very long time to get air superiority. And it boggles the mind to think the US could not have found 500 or more out of the thousands made up to that point and shipped to the British, had it not been entirely due to a strategic decision (see above) that was NOT in the best interests of the Filipinos. Thats entirely my point.

And bombers, same thing. There were thousands made, just not available due to strategic decisions. Ditto ditto ditto in every category.

Blogger buwaya puti October 23, 2016 3:13 AM  

JP, my point precisely, thanks.

Blogger buwaya puti October 23, 2016 3:15 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger buwaya puti October 23, 2016 3:15 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger buwaya puti October 23, 2016 4:35 AM  

For an even better reference on the air war in the Philippine campaign, I just pulled out my copy, William Bartsch, "Doomed at the Start"; this is ridiculously complete, every pilot, every mission, every airframe traced. Highly recommended.

Blogger buwaya puti October 23, 2016 4:36 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Avalanche October 23, 2016 8:23 AM  

@63 "for Japan to go nuclear, it would simply take them pulling an all-nighter. They could do it in a weekend, they're not stupid."

And they've got all that hot 'stuff' lying around up at Fukushima Daiichi ...

1 – 200 of 205 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts