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Saturday, October 22, 2016

Truth or social justice?

Jonathan Haidt argues that universities face a choice:
Aristotle often evaluated a thing with respect to its “telos” – its purpose, end, or goal. The telos of a kife is to cut. The telos of a physician is health or healing. What is the telos of university?
The harvardmost obvious answer is “truth” –- the word appears on so many university crests. But increasingly, many of America’s top universities are embracing social justice as their telos, or as a second and equal telos. But can any institution or profession have two teloses (or teloi)? What happens if they conflict?

As a social psychologist who studies morality, I have watched these two teloses come into conflict increasingly often during my 30 years in the academy. The conflicts seemed manageable in the 1990s. But the intensity of conflict has grown since then, at the same time as the political diversity of the professoriate was plummeting, and at the same time as American cross-partisan hostility was rising. I believe the conflict reached its boiling point in the fall of 2015 when student protesters at 80 universities demanded that their universities make much greater and more explicit commitments to social justice, often including mandatory courses and training for everyone in social justice perspectives and content.

Now that many university presidents have agreed to implement many of the demands, I believe that the conflict between truth and social justice is likely to become unmanageable.  Universities will have to choose, and be explicit about their choice, so that potential students and faculty recruits can make an informed choice. Universities that try to honor both will face increasing incoherence and internal conflict.
But they don't, really. The universities are, by and large, going to have to choose social justice. Truth will never serve any institution that depends upon a partnership with government and the banks to prey upon unsuspecting young people in order to mortgage their futures.

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97 Comments:

Blogger Robert What? October 22, 2016 3:03 PM  

And who says there's no such thing as vampires?

Blogger szopen October 22, 2016 3:11 PM  

Jonathan Heidt is a kind of person I respect. Even though he is a left-leaning centrist (former liberal), but a kind which actually tries to understand the oponent position before attacking it, who cares for free speech and who understand that truth cannot be discovered without a honest discussion.

Anonymous RabidRatel October 22, 2016 3:13 PM  

No man can serve two masters. The funny thing is, the more these people screech about social justice and how deplorable everyone else is, the more they prove the truths of the Bible. I'm starting to run out of popcorn here.

Blogger szopen October 22, 2016 3:19 PM  

And the worst thing is that any kind of society can exist even with a large percentage of social parasites and incompetents, sometimes for centuries, unless some crisis will happen.

North Korea is still here. Soviet Union survived always a century. Similarly, if SJWs will take over everything, contrary to what people believe, the system will last - the rotten hut can stand for decades until either someone will kick it or a strong wind will come to bring it down. Universities can produce SJWs by thousands, engineers going through mandatory lessons of diversity and the system will not crash, not until some crisis will happen.

If regressives won't be defeated within next few years, we are pretty much doomed.

Blogger szopen October 22, 2016 3:19 PM  

damn, s/always/almost/

Blogger Mr. Naron October 22, 2016 3:21 PM  

There's money to be made for someone who can build a university that combines the old practice of apprenticeship with modern technical training.

If universities are going to make money like a business, let them become businesses that both produce goods and services and the human capital needed to expand.

Anonymous RabidRatel October 22, 2016 3:27 PM  

Mr. Naron wrote:There's money to be made for someone who can build a university that combines the old practice of apprenticeship with modern technical training.

I think the current practise of internship is a step in that direction. There is a lot to be said for some program like internship/apprenticeship, especially with the ease of internet studies.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents October 22, 2016 3:31 PM  

Universities will have to choose, and be explicit about their choice, so that potential students and faculty recruits can make an informed choice. Universities that try to honor both will face increasing incoherence and internal conflict.

Haidt is naive in the extreme to expect Universities to choose explicitly to be on one side or the other. Because uni's are as feminized as any other institution, the administrations will try to split the difference, by talking about truth and social justice in the same boring speeches.

What looks like incoherence to him from the outside is merely a transitional stage between "partially converged" and "fully SJW converged". We don't have to pay much attention to words with university administrations.

All we have to do is watch what they do, and that generally is "give in to the loudest screamers so they will go away". Since the SJW's are the people with the most free time on their hands, we know who the Uni's will cave to over and over again.

Parallel institutions must be created, while those in civilization-critical paths such as STEM must resist as best they can.

Those Deplorable people with little to lose, whether as tenured faculty or as itinerant instructors have another option, and that is to run Alinsky's playbook right back at the SJW's, starting with "make them live up to their own rules". So Diversity, eh? Hmmm...why won't you let a Jewish homosexual speak on campus, again?

There must be many other ways to make SJW's live up to their own rules. Let's find them.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 3:40 PM  

You'll have to travel a long time to find a university that admits truth is a thing.

OpenID neocolonial October 22, 2016 3:43 PM  

University has long been about those things which are to be declared as Truth.

Blogger Unknown October 22, 2016 3:46 PM  

SJW "Truth" is the dialectic path to totalitarian control not anything absolute or useful in and of itself.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 3:47 PM  

Walter Truett Anderson humorously gives us an insight into this in his book Reality Isn’t What It Used to Be. He compares our predicament by presenting an analogy from baseball. A pre-modern baseball umpire would have said some-thing like this, “There’s balls, and there’s strikes and I call ‘em as they are.” The modernist one would have said, “There’s balls and there’s strikes, and I call ‘em as I see ‘em.” And the postmodernist umpire would have said, “They ain’t nothing until I call ‘em.” In brief, all reality is subject dependent and the postmodernist frames reality by naming aspects at his or her whim.

http://rzim.org/just-thinking/an-ancient-message-through-modern-means-to-a-postmodern-mind/

Anonymous One Deplorable DT October 22, 2016 3:49 PM  

This is what happens when you tell every child that:

* They are a special snowflake.

* Their opinion on an issue matters just as much as men who have spent their entire lives studying the issue.

* They can, and should, change the world through activism.

* They simply must go to college. There is no other valid life or career path. And you cannot put a price on education. No price!

* They are all eeeequal!

* And their feelings are precious! So, so, so very precious!

Blogger frigger611 October 22, 2016 3:57 PM  

"The telos of a knife is to cut."

I note that often when the left wins, it is death by a thousand cuts.

Then you summed up -

"Truth will never serve any institution that depends upon a partnership with government and the banks to prey upon unsuspecting young people in order to mortgage their futures."

Nicely done. Death by one cut.

Blogger pyrrhus October 22, 2016 4:06 PM  

The fact that truth is no longer relevant to getting tenure or being promoted has led directly to the Replication crisis, wherein roughly 85% of published papers in social science, medicine, climate, and biology have proven not to be verifiable, and in most cases clearly wrong. Goodbye American science....

Blogger pyrrhus October 22, 2016 4:07 PM  

I would guess that CalTech will be the last holdout....

Blogger Dirtnapninja October 22, 2016 4:09 PM  

Social Justice is a quasi-religion for those who grew up with no real beliefs beyond consume and obey.

Anonymous Bz October 22, 2016 4:10 PM  

I find Peter Turchin's theory of overproduction of elites rather interesting. Briefly, society is producing too many aspirants for elite positions, which leads to increasingly hot social competition and social instability.

SJWs can, as I see it at least, be viewed as part of that phenomenon: unproductives with elite educations (ie, university) who work to create sinecures on top of the productive parts of society. It almost seems entrepreneurial when you put it that way, doesn't it.

Here is the reference page, though I admit I find it less than clear:

http://peterturchin.com/blog/2013/11/20/elite-overproduction-brings-disorder/

Anonymous Rolf October 22, 2016 4:12 PM  

@6 - the problem is that the converged university systems are heavily subsidized by the State. It's hard to compete with massive state funding extracted by force, even when the institution is highly inefficient. The huge number of regulations in place that are tied to funding mechanisms make a common-sense and practical university difficult to start.

The trick will be getting a patron or crowd-source or something to get it started, and having a solid legal framework to fight the pushback the conventional universities and government apparatchiks will spew. If you take no government money at all it will simplify things. But its incorporation structure and launch will be critical.....

Build the physical structure mostly with volunteer labor, like a trades program that teaches while you built, combining habitat for humanity and an apprenticeship program. Learn academics along with physical skills like carpentry, animal husbandry and farming. Etc... Wow, just realized I wrote a book about that very thing, though with more of a religious twist.

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 4:14 PM  

pyrrhus wrote:I would guess that CalTech will be the last holdout....

Such Chinese, impossibru!

Anonymous Discard October 22, 2016 4:15 PM  

8. ...Deplorable...Twenty...: Alinsky's playbook will not work on SJWs. It only works on honest men who will listen to opposing views.

Blogger The Remnant October 22, 2016 4:17 PM  

Yet another spillover effect from unconstitutional federal spending, which perverts everything it touches. It's a quaint notion that Congress may spend money only on its few, enumerated powers; even though James Madison invoked this doctrine when vetoing a public-works bill, the Supreme Court once again usurped the amendment power and has allowed Congress to dole out money for any reason under the sun, along with considerable strings attached.

Title IX and the other regulations infesting universities are the bastard offspring of our illicit state of affairs. Since there is no rule of law, pretty much everything is on the table in terms of challenging and resisting the status quo.

Blogger Jed Mask October 22, 2016 4:23 PM  

TRUTH belongs in the CHURCH. The HOUSE OF GOD. Amen.

Blogger tridekka October 22, 2016 4:23 PM  

The more they converge, the better chance we have to replace them with something useful. Gird the loins and get building. I am.

Blogger Matamoros October 22, 2016 4:39 PM  

From Lame Cherry:
The left has one chance in America, and that is Donald Trump. The Clinton's obliterated the left in their regime, and now Hillary is furious over being dumped for Obama and now being threatened. The worm will turn on the left and if they think that only those people on the right are going to feel Hillary's scorn, they will be scorched earth as much as John Kennedy jr. and John Edwards, being wiped out of the election contender process, as no one gets in the way of Hillary Clinton, as her syndicate sees to that.

So that is the diseased hands of Hillary Clinton, bringing the hand of death in the plague she carries to the America left. Stalin obliterated his opponents. Mao obliterated his opponents, and the bell is tolling for the opponents in the left of Hillary Clinton.

http://lamecherry.blogspot.ru/2016/10/hillary-clinton-rockefeller-republican.html

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 4:41 PM  

szopen wrote:the system will not crash, not until some crisis will happen.
The systemic shock will be when (not if) student debt is again made dischargable in bankruptcy. The current system exists because it is a form of debt slavery unlike anything else. The sudden cessation of funding for entire departments, particularly Arts and *Studies will lead to either those departments getting shut down, or the colleges themselves closing in financial ruin. Many will anyway because they have overextended themselves and hired legions of useless eaters share the vampiric feast, whom they cannot dismiss without offending one or another interest group..

Sane bankruptcy laws serve the longer-term interest of the lending class. It used to be that banks etc understood that.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 4:47 PM  

The current system exists because it is a form of debt slavery unlike anything else.

should be
The current system exists because it is a form of debt slavery unlike anything else in American law.

Anonymous snoozinFORaBrusing October 22, 2016 4:48 PM  

@23 "TRUTH belongs in the CHURCH. The HOUSE OF GOD. Amen."

Certainly what you say is true. However, God created the reality in which we live, including its mathematical understructure. So TRUTH belongs everywhere God has touched.

I recall the Baconian twin purposes of science: the relief of man's estate (condition) and the glory of God. The search for truth that used to occur at Western universities served both purposes. Now that conservatives and Christians have abandoned the academy, neither purpose is served. It is one of the great tragedies of our time that leftists have managed to convince conservatives, especially those who are Christian, that study of the natural world someone conflicts with tradition.

Blogger Ezekiel October 22, 2016 5:00 PM  

Discard wrote:8. ...Deplorable...Twenty...: Alinsky's playbook will not work on SJWs. It only works on honest men who will listen to opposing views.
Yeah, you can't really try to trap people in their own rules when you're dealing with people who think that rules are made to be broken, and I don't know why so many people on the Right think otherwise. William Luther Pierce got this wrong in the Turner Diaries and Hunter, and frankly I doubt the government in William Lind's Victoria would let their own ideology lead them to certain defeat against the Northern Confederation.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 22, 2016 5:13 PM  

"TRUTH belongs in the CHURCH. The HOUSE OF GOD. Amen."

Jesus is the TRUTH. Jesus came for all men. God the Father created the physical universe through Jesus. Therefore, all the physical world is created in and ruled by TRUTH.

All truth points to God.

The Universities gave up God and got a mess of pottage in return. Even, or perhaps, especially the religious ones.

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett October 22, 2016 5:32 PM  

Not even a mess of pottage. Universities traded Truth for a pot of message.

Anonymous An Extremely Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than A Basket Of Twenty Deplorable Cents October 22, 2016 5:33 PM  

Sabo is back in L.A. with a new slogan

Negan wants 50% of your shit.
Hillary wants it all.


Poster HERE

Anonymous An Extremely Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than A Basket Of Twenty Deplorable Cents October 22, 2016 5:35 PM  

Eh. Screwup.

Negan wants 40% of your shit.
Hillary demands it all.


Nuance matters.

Blogger Retrenched October 22, 2016 5:35 PM  

Progress is the state religion. To the extent that it conflicts with reality will reality be outlawed. - Bryce Laliberte

Blogger Cecil Henry October 22, 2016 5:36 PM  

Jordan Peterson is fighting exactly this issue:

Sept 27/16: 1. Fear and the Law

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPgjg201w0


Oct 5/16: 3a: The PC Game (and some tactics to counter it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2u62u4entc

Anonymous KG October 22, 2016 6:01 PM  

I work at the u of m. They have signs all over campus with their "driven" theme. A bunch of them read stuff like "I am driven to bring social justice to research". It's blatant! They're not shy about it

Blogger Aeoli Pera October 22, 2016 6:09 PM  

Ezekiel wrote:Discard wrote:8. ...Deplorable...Twenty...: Alinsky's playbook will not work on SJWs. It only works on honest men who will listen to opposing views.

Yeah, you can't really try to trap people in their own rules when you're dealing with people who think that rules are made to be broken, and I don't know why so many people on the Right think otherwise.


Know yourself and know your enemy, there's a reason the old boy made a distinction between the two.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan October 22, 2016 6:29 PM  

Troof

Blogger Basil Makedon October 22, 2016 6:29 PM  

Actually, there aren't any banks involved anymore. Obama nationalized the student loan process back in '09, I believe.

This completed the long transformation of student "loans" into voluntary tax servitude.

Consdier: You get a worthless degree in [fill in the blank] studies, and the government gets to indoctrinate you for 5 years (causing you to vote left forever) and you get a higher rate of taxation on your pathetic earnings and then thank them for it.

God, when I write it up like that, the beauty of the con just makes my eyes tear up. I'm in the wrong business....

Anonymous Wyrd October 22, 2016 6:55 PM  

Negan wants 40% of your shit.
Hillary demands it all.


Since this is supposedly a Walking Dead riff, shouldn't that be "Negan wants 40% of your stuff and things"?

Blogger tz October 22, 2016 6:57 PM  

Super SJW!
Not Truth, Justice, and the American Way,
UnTruth, Social Justice, and the Multicultural Land Whales.

Blogger Unknown October 22, 2016 7:01 PM  

The college education system will become bifurcated, with a few schools (likely private, and not accepting federal student loans to stay clear of the tentacles that come with them) producing clear eyed people who know how to start learning to build shit, and where the real world matters, and all the rest, hopelessly corrupted from their purported goals by accepting Federal's silver.
Balkanization, in other words, and eventually, war.

What will it look like? Cast your eyes to Serbia, and pray it doesn't get that bad.

Trump is an initial sign, and the Establishment is totally whiffing on realizing it. Win or loose, what comes after Trump will be much harsher.

Blogger Noah B October 22, 2016 7:04 PM  

One of the big pushes the right needs to make is to separate government-recognized credentialing from existing universities to the greatest extent possible. This could take the form of replacing formal education requirements with additional test taking, or expanding the accreditation process to make it easier for small startups and online schools to compete with already-established universities.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 22, 2016 7:07 PM  

Three predictions;

1. Sooner or later the Democrats will get their way and all college will be state funded.

2. The baccalaureate will become worthless almost overnight. In bitter truth it's not far from that now.

3. Degrees from the Far East will gain immense value in the US job market.

Blogger Noah B October 22, 2016 7:10 PM  

@44 That's hilarious that you think people from the Far East will still want to come to the degenerate hellhole we're creating.

Blogger Cecil Henry October 22, 2016 7:13 PM  

@44

Degrees from the far East will become valuable???

Unlikely, given the level of cheating, corruption and yes men mentality of so much of the East.

What will become valuable is plain old IQ tests. One way or another employers who 'care' will find a way to accurately assess potential candidates. It won't be by papered credentials alone.

Blogger Basil Makedon October 22, 2016 7:14 PM  

Sabo is on a roll, just go with it

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 22, 2016 7:15 PM  

@45 Noah B

Sorry I didn't make that clearer.

What I meant was that a Degree from the University of Singapore will be drastically more valuable than a degree from a Near-Ivy like Bucknell.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents October 22, 2016 7:22 PM  

@36 KG
A bunch of them read stuff like "I am driven to bring social justice to research".

1. Get pic from Driving Miss Daisy
2. Caption with the above.
3. Disperse in visible areas.
4. Enjoy!


@40 Wyrd

Since this is supposedly a Walking Dead riff, shouldn't that be "Negan wants 40% of your stuff and things"?


Posters are rhetoric. Fewer words = better.

Blogger Cataline Sergius October 22, 2016 7:23 PM  

@46 Cecil Henry

What universities used to provide...and this was the really important part was a guarantee of character.

I realize this concept is so foreign in the early 21st century that it is nearly beyond belief but yes that was what you were supposed to be getting from a young man with a university trained mind.

Screw his knowledge or perceived intelligence (it was mostly useless shit about Latin and Greek) was the university willing to stand behind it's graduate and say, "this is a fine young man of good character."

Consider this when examining the modern graduate.

I'll wait for you to stop laughing.


...


...


...

Anonymous An Unpollable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents October 22, 2016 7:30 PM  

Consider this when examining the modern graduate.

Bring me a microscope.

Blogger Noah B October 22, 2016 7:34 PM  

@48 You're right, of course. Guaranteeing everyone a college degree will only make them worthless.

Anonymous Be Deplorable, Not Afraid October 22, 2016 7:49 PM  

>I work at the u of m. They have signs all over campus with their "driven" theme. A bunch of them read stuff like "I am driven to bring social justice to research". It's blatant! They're not shy about it

No, they're proud of it. I was reading a professional journal, and a couple of pages after an article about how we need to hire more women and minorities, was another article on an alternative career path if you can't find a job in the field. Message: white men need not apply.

The US has long imported foreign students who can pay full freight, for their money. Soon, science/engineering departments will demand H1-B-type visas with quotas of foreign students because there aren't enough American females and minorities able to do the work, and white males will just be ignored. In the end, all academic departments will be female and non-white.

Blogger dfordoom October 22, 2016 8:26 PM  

@25. Matamoros

The left has one chance in America, and that is Donald Trump.

As perverse as it sounds that's quite true. The Democrats have purged the left from their party. Clinton is the candidate of the extremist far right.

Blogger Erynne October 22, 2016 8:26 PM  

Has there ever been a time tenured professors haven't complained about the students and the role of universities? I can't help but roll my eyes whenever another professor tries to explain what has gone wrong with their workplace. As far as I see it, there are two ways to fix universities: 1. dissolve them because all classroom education for adults can be done online for free or a fraction of the cost (Hey Bernie bros, want to make college free, tear them down and put them online), and 2. stop providing loans for students. If students had to pay lump sum, or pay as you go, who on earth would go to university?

One can hope and pray for the collapse of the university system. Doctors, scientists, engineers are just imported anyway, so what need is there of the facilities on campus? Professors in their fields conducting important scientific research? I guess we'll just have to put all of that on hold, somehow there are still Elon Musks of the world who will bring forth useful technology. What about medical science? No one can afford it anyway.

I guess I'm just bitter at the university system because of the uselessness of my own degree and the debt I'll never pay off, maybe there is a good function to it, but like Vox Day said years ago, and I'm paraphrasing, as long as it's profitable for the system to continue working wrong, it will remain working wrong.

Blogger Johnny October 22, 2016 8:42 PM  

I guess I'm just bitter at the university system because of the uselessness of my own degree and the debt I'll never pay off,

Well, you are not alone. The current system has major fraud elements in that students are encouraged to have beliefs that are not realistic.

The public is too sold in the alleged benefits of a university education to shut it down. My solution would be to turn it into more complete nonsense than it currently is. If they want to push moral values of helping this that and some other groupe, get the social studies departments involved in outreach programs of the sort that are common in a religious education. Expose the students to real life along with further damaging the idea that anything useful is going on. The process has to be damaged in the mind of the public or it can not be gotten rid of.

I suspect a lot of this student loan stuff will never be paid off by the students, or paid off with greatly inflated money. Unfortunately in the meantime it damages lives by limiting choices.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 8:48 PM  

Fyi on online courses. The DOJ is on the warpath against them because they don't comply with ADA - inadequate provision for the deaf, blind, etc.
They have been hassling UC Berkeley, Harvard and MIT that I know of. Havent heard of them bugging Khan yet.

Properly paranoid as I always am, I suspect some darker purpose besides just because, probably to limit free competition to the Democrats pet industry. Make the barriers to entry greater and discourage new entrants.

Blogger buwaya puti October 22, 2016 8:50 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Lazarus October 22, 2016 9:07 PM  

Well, surprise, surprise. Social Justice narratives in Universities do not fly with a lot of Nationalist Israeli Jews either. This can be a source of co-operation on a common cause that diffuses the false charges of anti-Jewism:

Perverting college coursework to confirm to anti-Israel ideology

Anonymous Fred October 22, 2016 9:11 PM  

"The public is too sold in the alleged benefits of a university education to shut it down."

There are significant benefits to obtaining a college education in a brick and mortar setting. But, the benefits will only emerge if the student is committed to academics and is every bit as intent on accumulating skills as they are getting the degree. Finally, it's absolutely critical to hang out with equally dedicated academics. A good academic advisor and mentor is important too.

Do this and you will come out of college, be it a liberal arts or stem degree with skill....and that's what you want.

Blogger Lazarus October 22, 2016 9:18 PM  

Erynne wrote:I guess I'm just bitter at the university system because of the uselessness of my own degree and the debt I'll never pay off,

Part of the intelligence test for university entrance is deciding whether it is actually useful or not for your particular circumstance. If you fail at that, you have to pay a penalty, i.e., a university education.

Now I have to admit, in my day, one had to only borrow $500 for tuition. Plus, the drugs and alcohol were way less than that per semester, which is why I did not make it past the first two years.

I am forever grateful. Thank you, drugs and alcohol!

Anonymous Wyrd October 22, 2016 9:28 PM  

@40 Wyrd

Since this is supposedly a Walking Dead riff, shouldn't that be "Negan wants 40% of your stuff and things"?

Posters are rhetoric. Fewer words = better.


https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/931577-11.jpg?quality=85&strip=info&w=600

Blogger Joe Keenan October 22, 2016 9:31 PM  

The Greeks call the central organizing principle of the universe Logos (translated as Word to English), in the Gospel of St John, St John says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...." The meaning of Logos goes to 5 pages or so in a Greek dictionary, but one of the key meanings of the word is Reason. If Logos is Reason,rejection of Christ is the rejection of the central organizing principle of the universe, Reason. It naturally follows then than an institution founded on the advancement of small r reason dissolves itself when it rejects large r Reason. The universities that reject Reason, are doomed.

Anonymous Vermithrax Pejorative October 22, 2016 9:35 PM  

"Truth will never serve any institution that depends upon a partnership with government and the banks to prey upon unsuspecting young people in order to mortgage their futures."

That's one reason why.

The other is that the universities are part of the political machine. The primary purpose is to produce SJWs to enforce the orthodoxy and create new grievances that require expansion of state power in order to 'fix.'

Blogger Johnny October 22, 2016 9:44 PM  

href="http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/10/truth-or-social-justice.html#c6188240693788628212">buwaya puti wrote:

Properly paranoid as I always am, I suspect some darker purpose besides just because, probably to limit free competition to the Democrats pet industry. Make the barriers to entry greater and discourage new entrants.


Paranoid is the wrong word, cynical the right one. And can we be real. Of course they want to limit competition. That is routine in everything.

Blogger Johnny October 22, 2016 9:50 PM  

In student loans and a lot of other areas there is an element of fraud in that a loan is a way of spending money without showing it on the books. Foreign aid, housing loans, at least some of the student loans. Lots of stuff is like that.

Anonymous BGKB October 22, 2016 10:20 PM  

Negan wants 40% of your shit. Hillary demands it all. Nuance matters.

Octogenarian lesbian scat queen, there is a video that might take HERpes out.

linsky's playbook will not work on SJWs. It only works on honest men who will listen to opposing views.Yeah, you can't really try to trap people in their own rules when you're dealing with people who think that rules are made to be broken

Lets talk about how smart jews are for importing the 3rd world.

government-recognized credentialing from existing universities to the greatest extent possible. This could take the form of replacing formal education requirements with additional test taking

It used to be possible to become an RN simply by taking a test and passing it. Now some hospitals have started giving nursing tests to travelers and potential hires since affirmative action has lowered the value of the license. http://blog.bluepipes.com/travel-nursing-assignments-orientation-and-testing/

Fyi on online courses. The DOJ is on the warpath against them because they don't comply

They are merit based and people can say they didn't know all the people they failed were non Asian minorities because that info is not shared.

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 22, 2016 10:22 PM  

OT:  Anyone who would care to help prank an SJW-infested organization, write me at deplorable_deconverger (underscore, not dash) at the Y company. You will need a phone, a web browser and a credit card (to confirm, no fees). Details on contact.

Blogger Jon M October 22, 2016 10:48 PM  

God or Mammon. The more things change...

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 22, 2016 10:50 PM  

As perverse as it sounds that's quite true. The Democrats have purged the left from their party. Clinton is the candidate of the extremist far right.

Son, I am disappoint. I have explained before how my left hand has no more or different political meaning than my right hand, so left/right is just whatever is the primary axis of conflict, ignoring the settled questions in that polity.

The Democrats have purged all of the nationalists from their party, so they are of the far left.

The Democrats have purged all of the classical liberals from their party, so they are of the far right.

Both of those statements are true, in different respects.

Anonymous Wyrd October 22, 2016 10:51 PM  

Octogenarian lesbian scat queen, there is a video that might take HERpes out.

Japan probably has a website dedicated to this.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 22, 2016 11:28 PM  

Bz wrote:I find Peter Turchin's theory of overproduction of elites rather interesting. Briefly, society is producing too many aspirants for elite positions, which leads to increasingly hot social competition and social instability.

Haven't read the link but think the premise is both true and false, in different respects. There are sure too many faggy baristas with BAs, but that is not what will start CWII before WWIII. The main problem is midwit MPAs who imagine themselves our masters, while there are still SD 3.5+ working-class blokes that will do whatever it takes to remain free.

Anonymous Mr. Rational October 22, 2016 11:44 PM  

snoozinFORaBrusing wrote:It is one of the great tragedies of our time that leftists have managed to convince conservatives, especially those who are Christian, that study of the natural world someone conflicts with tradition.
Leftists didn't do that.  The findings of (often Christian) scientists, which called into question or outright contradicted the tenets of dogma, did.

The preference for dogma over truth is a self-inflicted wound; leftists just piled on later.  @30 and @63 are cases in point.

Erynne wrote:I guess I'm just bitter at the university system because of the uselessness of my own degree and the debt I'll never pay off
A recently popular joke on Reddit:  "Thanks for the education, student loan.  I don't see how I can ever repay you."

Blogger seeingsights October 23, 2016 12:02 AM  

I'm hoping that the Internet--which has shaken up liberal dominated institutions such as publishing, music, and newspapers-shakes up universities. For example, there's a second tier university in my city which offers a master degree solely by online courses plus "life experience". I could obtain this degree if I wanted to.

Blogger Teri October 23, 2016 12:05 AM  

I went to a community college at age 45. I was in their first computer technician class (combining help desk and PC tech). I got an apprenticeship at a CLEC and worked in their IT department for seven years. After the tech bust, I did call centers.

Community colleges are the way to go for that internship/training. I did 2 years in a regular college after high school. All they train you for is either a teaching career or government work. We just need to find a way to keep companies from requiring that four year degree.

Anonymous Clark October 23, 2016 12:41 AM  

Being 20+ years at a University, I thought we had reached peek Social Justice a few years ago. But they have found the 11 on the SJW tuner. It's amazing how nearly EVERYTHING is diverisity, equality and inclusion 24/7. There is no discussion AT ALL regarding education, prifessions, truth or careers.

Fortunately, I will be retired when this whole thing collapses like a black whole.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 23, 2016 12:49 AM  

What amazes me is that everything seems perfectly normal on the outside. This is the only place where people seem to be aware of the danger.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 23, 2016 12:57 AM  

Clark wrote:Fortunately, I will be retired when this whole thing collapses like a black whole.

They didn't save any money for your pension. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. They hate you and they want you to die, you vile white male, and they expect to be successful.

Anonymous Professor October 23, 2016 12:58 AM  

Obviously, I have a dog in this fight. Jobs have gotten more abstract and less routine. Self motivated 145+ Iq guys don't need my help. But people somewhat under that do need teachers to break material down and get that so they can understand technical material that they would not on their own. I have met very few people who have taught themselves statistics on their own.
I also know very few people who can learn to write well on their own.
If you remove the federal support and debt, drastically fewer students would go to college, and that population would mostly benefit from it quite a bit. States would support teaching heavy community and state colleges that emphasized technical specialties. Higher education would be fine without federal support. Administrative staff and the bottom end of professor talent would not be.

I'd say, remove federal support, don't support debt, allow IQ tests, and forbid H1bs in universities. We'd have a small and fine higher education sector. There were plenty of schools in the pre 65 education world.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable October 23, 2016 1:00 AM  

Now I don't know where you are, but it's a pretty good bet that (((they))) didn't save any money for your pension. Zero. Zip. Nada. (((They))) hate you and (((they))) want you to die, you vile white male, and (((they))) expect to be successful.

Anonymous Greg October 23, 2016 1:33 AM  

Apparently a terrorist attack in Japan:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20161023_14/

http://www.asahi.com/articles/photo/AS20161023001049.html

Blogger Bob Loblaw October 23, 2016 2:40 AM  

Anybody who uses the term "social justice" non-ironically has already abandoned truth as a goal.

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett October 23, 2016 6:22 AM  

@73. '...the tenets of dogma...'

I always thought you were on the level, but your whole persona is a parody. I'm ashamed to admit I just realized this.

I mean, no one is actually that fucking stupid, right? Tenets of Dogma, indeed! Well played, sir, you fooled me handily.

Blogger Nick S October 23, 2016 10:18 AM  

I just surfed a link titled "NEUHAUS’S LAW" from Fesers' blog to a 7 year old article at First Things that is particularly relevant to several topics of late here.

I shouldn't have been surprised how it so closely parallels many things Vox has been saying for a while, but I was.

Anonymous Big Bill October 23, 2016 10:33 AM  

@59: "Social Justice narratives in Universities do not fly with a lot of Nationalist Israeli Jews either."

One good thing. Sabras can line their yehudi cultural engineers up against the wall and shoot them ... and never be accused of anti-semitism! We don't have that option in the West.

Do it before the Israeli yehudonim reverse every good thing that Arthur Ruppin and his crew engineered.

Anonymous Big Bill October 23, 2016 11:23 AM  

@56: "I suspect a lot of this student loan stuff will never be paid off by the students, or paid off with greatly inflated money. Unfortunately in the meantime it damages lives by limiting choices."

Student loan debtors have a couple of income-based repayment plans.

Muffie can get her degree in feminist basketweaving, work at some flunky job and only have to pay a small amount each month (10% of her income).

Then, after several years accruing unpaid interest, she can marry some dude with a good job, and he has to (1) support her, AND (2) repay her now-ballooned debt at a much higher rate.

Why? When she got married, "her" income [read: their joint income] suddenly jumped.

In sum, the government is happy to loan her whatever money she wants and promise her low income-based repayment rates ... until she finds some chump to marry.

It is then her husband's job to pay off her accrued debts.

These chicks are "debt bombs".

Suggestion: implant each one of them with a little RFID tag that encodes her current debt balance. Maybe a website so you can look up her debt before a first date.

Blogger jandolin October 23, 2016 3:47 PM  

It is not sufficient to denounce and oppose social justice warriors. The logic of democracy is driving the equality tyranny. Only a monarchy/aristocracy can prevent the tyranny of equality. The history of America is the history of the spread of equality at the expense of liberty.

OpenID notebuyer October 23, 2016 4:00 PM  

So which colleges now have the goal of Truth and not Social Justice? Bueller? Bueller?

OpenID notebuyer October 23, 2016 5:19 PM  

Ok, I get "Hillsdale College" nominated by text.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Hillsdale_College

Any thoughts?

Anonymous Hezekiah Garrett October 23, 2016 9:40 PM  

Thomas Aquinas College, somewhere in the Mojave desert. They accept non-catholics, but you still have to attend Mass. I'm not sure how often they have the Tridentine rite.

Socratic method, primary sources, max 15 student discussion format. If I had the resources, probably the one school in North America I'd be willing to attend.

Blogger Can't wait October 24, 2016 3:32 AM  

@28 snoozinFORaBrusing,

This passage concurs with what you wrote...

Romans 1:19-23 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Blogger Can't wait October 24, 2016 3:38 AM  

"Truth will never serve any institution that depends upon a partnership with government and the banks to prey upon unsuspecting young people in order to mortgage their futures."
I would expand this idea to read, "Truth will never serve any institution that doesn't depend on God as its source"

Psalm 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

“Today not only in philosophy but in politics, government, and individual morality, our generation sees solutions in terms of synthesis and not absolutes. When this happens, truth, as people have always thought of truth, has died.” - Francis Schaeffer

Anonymous Discard October 24, 2016 4:13 AM  

90. Hezekiah Garrett: Thomas Aquinas college is in Ventura County, California. It's in the hills, maybe 15 miles from the ocean. Much, much better than the Mojave Desert.

OpenID leukosfash October 24, 2016 4:55 AM  

I think for the safety of women and POCs, white men should build, people and maintain a white male only tertiary school system. Okay, the odd Skype (1:50 staff) can teach, but never EVER given tenure or allowed to be in any positions of authority.

Anonymous RabidRatel October 24, 2016 5:15 AM  

leukosfash wrote:white men should build, people and maintain a white male only tertiary school system

Very good suggestion, but how do you proposed keeping women and POCs from breaking down the doors to come in?

Blogger Bob Loblaw October 24, 2016 5:52 AM  

Muffie can get her degree in feminist basketweaving, work at some flunky job and only have to pay a small amount each month (10% of her income).

Then, after several years accruing unpaid interest, she can marry some dude with a good job, and he has to (1) support her, AND (2) repay her now-ballooned debt at a much higher rate.


She doesn't even have to do that. She has to pay 15% of her "disposable income", which is anything over double the poverty rate. After twenty years the debt is forgiven. If she works for the government or an NGO it's only ten years.

So she goes to school for seven or eight years, and then to work for PITA, or BLM, or whatever they're calling ACORN these days. Or maybe CGI. She pays nothing or almost nothing toward her student debt. Then after ten years, even though she owes more now than the day she graduated... poof! It's gone.

Blogger Nick S October 24, 2016 10:00 AM  

notebuyer wrote:So which colleges now have the goal of Truth and not Social Justice? Bueller? Bueller?

OWU

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