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Thursday, November 17, 2016

It's not about you

I find it very annoying when someone decides it is an optimal use of my time to ask me to contemplate their personal situation and ascertain a) if their current political position can be characterized as Alt-Right, b) what variant of Alt-Right best describes their current political perspective, c) what the Alt-Right makes of their family situation, which inevitably involves some amount of interracial sex or adoption, d) if the Alt-Right has taken into account their family situation, which inevitably involves some amount of interracial sex or adoption, or e) if the Alt-Right is aware that its political theories violate the individual's current theological perspective.

Allow me to direct your attention to Point 12 of the 16 Points.

12. The Alt-Right doesn't care what you think of it.

Perhaps that needs to be revised. The Alt-Right doesn't care about you. Or made more succinct: The Alt-Right doesn't care.

I certainly don't. These questions are not merely solipsistic and stupid, they are utterly beside the point. They all consist of category errors. This should be totally obvious, but as I am frequently informed that what I consider to be totally obvious is not always, in fact, the case, let me attempt to explain.

Let us say that instead of political philosophy, we are discussing political economy. Let's say that instead of discussing the Alt-Right, we are discussing Keynesianism, I point out that it is in the interest of the economy that interest rates rise. How, then, would one regard an individual who asked the following questions?

  1. Can my current financial position be characterized as Keynesian?
  2. What variant of Keynesianism best describes my current financial position?
  3. What do Keynesians make of my financial situation, which inevitably involves some amount of debt or investment?
  4. Have Keynesians taken into account my financial situation, which inevitably involves some amount of debt or investment?
  5. Are Keynesians aware that their economic theories contradict my current theological perspective?
Now does the utter irrelevance of these questions make a little more sense? The truth or falsehood of Keynesianism does not depend on the amount one presently owes on ones's student loan debt or credit card balance. Many people seem to be of the opinion that the legitimacy of the Alt-Right somehow depends upon whether it is good for them or not. This is, in three words, stupid, solipsistic, and erroneous.

Communism is either correct or incorrect. It doesn't matter if it is bad for you or not. Free Trade theory is either correct or incorrect. It doesn't matter if it is bad for you or not. And the Alt-Right is either a more correct political philosophy than Communism, Liberalism, Conservatism, or Libertarianism or it is not, regardless of whether you and your mudsharking daughter or rice-chasing son or your Filippino ex-wife or your gay Hispanic uncle or your adopted Haitian son or your adopted Korean daughter or your Jewish-Nigerian granddaughter or your Kenyan-Slovakian grandson are United States citizens or alien invaders from Mars.

Seriously, to preen and posture and pretend that your personal situation is even remotely relevant to whether diversity+proximity=war is just embarrassing. The great social forces are as indifferent to individual specimens of humanity as the Deists' hands-off clockmaker god; as Tolstoy conclusively showed, not even Napoleon's opinions were directly relevant to the outcome of a single battle. As a general rule, Europeans don't want to live in Somalia, Beijing, Manila, Nairobi, or Jeddah, and the more your presence forces them to live in some facsimile of one of those places for any reason, the less they want you or anyone to do with you around them.

Now, I think there is a strong argument to be made for the Alt-Right from an individual perspective. As a mixed-race individual, I will benefit greatly from the continued existence of Western civilization. If that means I cannot live in certain Alt-White-governed areas one day, what of it? It is still of massive benefit to me, as the appearance of mobile phones, fertilizer, and modern medicine in the most hopelessly savage areas of Africa should suffice to prove.

The white nations of Europe are, collectively and historically speaking, humanity's golden geese. It is to the long-term benefit of all Mankind to avoid killing them, or even adulterating them, through immigration, invasion, or assimilation.

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194 Comments:

Anonymous Faceless November 17, 2016 8:04 AM  

It's time for the Alt-Right Skype chatbot. It just lets them talk and talk, then tells them to piss off, they aren't a part of it.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable November 17, 2016 8:04 AM  

YESSSSS! Thank you.

Anonymous DGM November 17, 2016 8:20 AM  

Vox,

I assume I'm the one who set this off (or at least one of them).

While it's something I've tried to work on, social graces aren't my strong suit. So if my question was inappropriate, fine. I'll own up to it, and I apologize.

Would you like me to stop commenting on your blog?

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton November 17, 2016 8:21 AM  

Maybe for a motivated one of those alt-righters who has personal mixed race concerns this could be an opportunity to start a forum.

Instead of asking Vox, why not have your own place where you can discuss this stuff with others in the same situation and figure out for yourselves what course of action might work best in a variety of potential emerging scenarios.

Blogger Doug Cranmer November 17, 2016 8:23 AM  

Well, that's all very interesting, Vox, but let's get back to me ...

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti November 17, 2016 8:24 AM  

as Tolstoy conclusively showed, not even Napoleon's opinions were directly relevant to the outcome of a single battle

Slightly OT but in another weird synchronicity I literally just finished War and Peace. (I'm more of a Dostoevsky person than a Tolstoy person, but it was time).

As for the point, for the benefit of people coming here for the first time, I will reiterate what someone here once told me, because I had an interaction with VD early on in my participation on this blog that basically fits the contours outlined above: Vox isn't articulating what he wants to happen. Vox is forecasting what he sees will happen. And at this point, you'd have to be either stupid or willfully blind not to see the trend lines.

Blogger Salt November 17, 2016 8:25 AM  

Vox doesn't care! Waaaaaaaaa.... [sniffle]

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti November 17, 2016 8:26 AM  

Would you like me to stop commenting on your blog?

At the risk of speaking for Vox: you're still making it about you. Stop being so narcissistic. If you can.

Blogger rumpole5 November 17, 2016 8:27 AM  

This is so simple, but envy and pride just won't let go. If I am passed by a luxury car, I think to myself "I want a car like that!". A fool thinks "What right does he have to drive a car like that?" Pride and envy won't let fools understand that it is better for 1/3 of us to ride in style while 2/3 of us to ride in economy cars, than it is for all of us to have to walk equally.

Blogger Stephen November 17, 2016 8:28 AM  

My favorite color is Blue, my favorite food is chocolate, so what part of the Alt Right am I?

Anonymous After His Passion November 17, 2016 8:29 AM  

As a Mexican I most definitely gain from Western Civilization created by white Israel, aka True Israel. It is to the benefit of minorities that live here to ensure that the White population flourishes, as is to our benefit to stop the third world invasion that was planned and executed by the Kenites (some call them Jews, read Revelations 2:9 and 3:9).

Anonymous VFM #6306 November 17, 2016 8:31 AM  

But what does this mean for Comet Pizza? Haitian kids have feelings!

Anonymous Peter November 17, 2016 8:34 AM  

My concept of zones: zones for living among the own kind, and zones for mixing. My rule is: race-mixers can´t stay in the White country. I expect race-mixing to pretty much stop because of this rule.
I would like to point out that I consider this rule, or rather, to deal with the underlying question, of the highest importance; it is the open question of our time, if not of all history that people are desperately waiting an answer for: how do we deal with the subject of race? Should we mix as humans, or should we remain distinct races? Only today with mass travel has the question become fully actual. And my anser is: NO race-mixing, stay separate. Reason / proof: self-segregation. People vote with their feet for separation and against mixing.

People need to be actively encouraged to take this position as the hostile genociders have installed a hypno-trance for race-mixing. So knoweth the morale: it is morally GOOD to maintain your race ! It is morally GOOD to EXCLUDE people of other races from your community! Wish them the best, help them for their best but don´t mix and always give priority to the well-being of your own group !

Nothing of this implies violence. All it means is awareness of the own.

Blogger Lobo Util November 17, 2016 8:34 AM  

It appears to the media that the alt-Right reject improvement of men. So they use politics, social pressure, and derision to try and change the attitude and desires of the alt-Right.

Perhaps they should try to change the alt-Right and themselves through Christ. He can quietly change the heart of men.

That won't necessarily get rid of the alt-Right. I see the alt-Right as a way of dealing with the perversity of man and culture. The gentle and peaceful still need to carry a gun to survive in the 'hood.

Eventually every knee shall bow and every tongue confess Christ. The alt-Right will disappear into the haze of history. Of course Christ will have come in glory and destroyed a lot of armies, governments, and evil men at that point. Crispy critters won't cause the peaceful trouble anymore.

Then the alt-Right will definitely have an attitude adjustment.

Blogger William Cuckley Jr November 17, 2016 8:35 AM  

Point taken, and I apologize for my ignorant question yesterday. As more people are newly red pilled and stumble across this blog, just as I have, I can only see these same questions being repeated by new readers. Unless you add a specific note to the "Rules of the Blog", these questions will probably increase in numbers proportionate to your increasing readership.

Anonymous jakob November 17, 2016 8:35 AM  

Is this aimed at John C. Wright's recent post about alt-right?

Anonymous totenhenchen November 17, 2016 8:36 AM  

"I don't care." - Vox Day

Blogger dc.sunsets November 17, 2016 8:36 AM  

The white nations of Europe are, collectively and historically speaking, humanity's golden geese. It is to the long-term benefit of all Mankind to avoid killing them, or even adulterating them, through immigration, invasion, or assimilation.

I should have copyrighted the golden geese metaphor a year ago. (Just kidding.) The open warfare on People of Mostly Northern European Ancestry (POMNEA) is a classic case of two things:
1. The urge to destroy that which you envy.
2. Heinlein's comment: Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded--here and there, now and then--are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as “bad luck.”

Anonymous DGM November 17, 2016 8:36 AM  

@8

>> "At the risk of speaking for Vox: you're still making it about you. Stop being so narcissistic. If you can."

Trying to apologize and offering to quietly walk away if I'm unwanted is narcissistic?

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric November 17, 2016 8:38 AM  

jakob wrote:Is this aimed at John C. Wright's recent post about alt-right?
It's aimed at a whole slew of questions that have popped up in the last few months from dozens of individuals, I'd imagine, since I've seen those same comments too.

Blogger Shimshon November 17, 2016 8:38 AM  

Does this verbiage count towards your ASOS quota today?

You are indeed kind. A lot of words to explain what "I don't care" means.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 17, 2016 8:38 AM  

Personal questions about this group or that group are a lot like restaurant menus without prices.

If you have to ask, you're in the wrong place.

Anonymous VFM #6306 November 17, 2016 8:38 AM  

My Satan in Hell, man, yes. Just stop you narcissistic freak. It is NOT about you!

Blogger Doug Cranmer November 17, 2016 8:39 AM  

There's nothing to figure out. Go home.

Anonymous ODG November 17, 2016 8:40 AM  

It's like asking whether a blizzard cares about your housing situation. If someone is living in a tent, and you tell them a blizzard is coming, there's no point in them yelling at you that their "house" isn't suitable for the blizzard.

A blizzard is coming. You're either prepared for it, or you aren't.

Blogger Durandel Almiras November 17, 2016 8:40 AM  

Well said Vox. I've been getting similar statements from friends and church members and I keep telling them their situations nor feelings matter to what is. Once they get that I don't care about their race mixing, they tend to give up or go for the fake virtue signaling that only signals that they don't understand statistics.

Memes are great for online discussion, but what about real life rhetoric and dialectic for personal discussions with an acquaintance? I've won a few over by hitting heavy with the facts, but the I'm With Her crowd seems hopelessly lost. I'm almost tempted to eject them simply because there seems to be no way to reach them.

Blogger VD November 17, 2016 8:41 AM  

Would you like me to stop commenting on your blog?

I would like you to stop asking senseless and solipsistic questions.

Trying to apologize and offering to quietly walk away if I'm unwanted is narcissistic?

Yes. You're still talking about yourself and requesting attention for yourself. You're neither wanted nor unwanted. The blog is here for you to read, or not, as you see fit.

Blogger VD November 17, 2016 8:42 AM  

Is this aimed at John C. Wright's recent post about alt-right?

No. My recent John C. Wright reading has been limited to his excellent, and forthcoming, novel.

Anonymous John November 17, 2016 8:44 AM  

Well VD you can be content that this post successfully stopped at least one related question from being fired at you (mine).

Blogger Robert Divinity November 17, 2016 8:46 AM  

Well, that's all very interesting, Vox, but let's get back to me ...

Snowflakeism, in a nutshell. The narcissism is pathetic.

Blogger Chrom November 17, 2016 8:47 AM  

One of the things I tell people to whom I recommend this blog is, don't comment for the first thirty days. Just read. Your insight will improve daily, sometimes minute by minute.

Anonymous Gary Baaaarnes November 17, 2016 8:48 AM  

Vox,

I married a Tajikistan goat. She's a white goat though, and is as American as anyone. I mean the rest of us love baseball and apple pie, but can any of us say we love them in the exact same way, including the piepan? Our kids may not be pure Bavarian phenotype, but they're extremely sure-footed. And they're not picky eaters either!

Where do me and my flock fit into the alt-right?

Anonymous BGKB November 17, 2016 8:49 AM  

I always thought the people saying "I am 1/16 jew, 3/16 han, 1/2 irish, 3/4 niggerian where should I live" were joke posts.

But what does this mean for Comet Pizza? Haitian kids have feelings!

Luckily Crooked Eye Clinton loves Haitian girls and is known for breaking down barriers. Barriers being code word for 6yo hymens.

My rule is: race-mixers can´t stay in the White country. I expect race-mixing to pretty much stop because of this rule.

I am pretty sure that from 1-12grade common core there is not a single picture of a white girl near a white boy, even though it would cost less in ink.

Blogger Salt November 17, 2016 8:49 AM  

DGM wrote:Trying to apologize and offering to quietly walk away if I'm unwanted is narcissistic?

Asking if you're unwanted is being desirous of an emotional biscuit.

Blogger Salt November 17, 2016 8:53 AM  

I'm curious as to how much race-mixing is due to inculcated virtue signaling?

Anonymous VFM #6306 November 17, 2016 9:10 AM  

Me too, Salt. It is obvious there are cases of it, especially when the white is a man and a low Delta or below.

Women who mix tend to stay that way in a "once you go black we ain't taking you back" sort of way, which then gets papered over with pseudovirtue.

White men with Asian women, however, is a simple case of Asian women taking advantage of a cultural loophole whereby those white men are unaware that their wives will eventually reveal themselves to think like Asian women.

Anonymous VFM #6306 November 17, 2016 9:14 AM  

Luckily Crooked Eye Clinton loves Haitian girls and is known for breaking down barriers. Barriers being code word for 6yo hymens.

The crack in that ass sealing just got a little bigger!

Blogger tz November 17, 2016 9:18 AM  

I think they still recoil at being called racist. Few even in the most rabid alt-white will be burning crosses while wearing hoods. Most are pan-nationalists, and even tolerant.

No one is going to lynch Milo or Diamond and Silk. Get over it. They are more likely to lynch Romney and WASP banksters.

Forgotten is that tolerance is a European virtue. You don't see it in Africa, nor even the Asian civilizations. Better to be tolerated among whites than a permanent pariah among others. The Japanese banished all whites for over a century.

There is more tolerance in even the alt-white than on the left or Cuckservatism, inc. Shocking, but true. Who demands strict conformity or purges?

It is a form of denial. That 80% of black children are born to single parents is a fact. data. The "why" is only relevant if you desire to fix inequality, not call people who point it out names.

And for 4000 years, Jews have socially enforced non-assimilation to keep their identity. The stricter ones rarely let in converts. But genocide can be soft. If the Jews in Europe all assimilated 500 years ago, there would be no Israel today.

Nationalism isn't even about superiority. Point out Asians are smarter and commit fewer crimes than whites and it doesn't fit so is ignored.

Even if you believe in assimilation, first it must happen and 60 million aren't, and you have to have the target people assimilate to. "I want to be like them". The "them" is white Europeans. Most just want the benefits.

Blogger clk November 17, 2016 9:31 AM  

"Trying to apologize and offering to quietly walk away if I'm unwanted is narcissistic?"

You were asking if you are part of the alt right ? - and sifu VD gave you wisdom that the alt right doesn't care -- that's you answer -- You don't ask if you are an American, you say "yes I am" and if anyone else says no, you tell them to F&#k off, and if they don't like it, tell then to "F&%k off, I don't care what you think, your an idiot" ...you cant care what other people think - establish your own beliefs, determine what you will stand for and where your red lines are, and then go live your life.

Being in the alt right is like being in love --- you never should say you are sorry :)

Anonymous Tiny Duck November 17, 2016 9:34 AM  

HEre is what normal people think

Anonymous totenhenchen November 17, 2016 9:38 AM  

WHITE CHOCOLATE ONLY, CUCK!

Blogger Ned November 17, 2016 9:38 AM  

But enough about me - what do you think of me?

Blogger clk November 17, 2016 9:42 AM  

"White men with Asian women" ... this is a touchy subject as many of the alt right that came to here from GG have an strong Asian fetish -- just look thru any of the computer/electronics trades magazines and you will see all sorts of hardware /software sold with advertisements showing hot Asian models -- Look this is the latest 16 channel logic analyzer, made in Sunnyvale but shown with a Japanese model -- if you want to know what people like, look at what Madison avenue uses to sell to them... thats their job...

Anonymous Oye November 17, 2016 9:44 AM  

"As a mixed-race individual, I will benefit greatly from the continued existence of Western civilization. If that means I cannot live in certain Alt-White-governed areas one day, what of it? It is still of massive benefit to me, as the appearance of mobile phones, fertilizer, and modern medicine in the most hopelessly savage areas of Africa should suffice to prove."

Which legal system from white civilization do you think is of more benefit to the rest of humanity? Common Law or Civil Law?

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 9:45 AM  

"Instead of asking Vox, why not have your own place where you can discuss this stuff with others in the same situation and figure out for yourselves what course of action might work best in a variety of potential emerging scenarios."

Because nothing from nothing leaves nothing; a bunch of folks ignorant of the subject are not likely to become less ignorant by virtue of mass. Conversely, Vox is something of a spokesman for the alt-right, to the extent that such an amorphous to the point of anarchic trend can have a spokesmen, so he would be a place to look. He is, of course, perfectly within his rights to say "no time, no interest."

Blogger Earl November 17, 2016 9:45 AM  

Just comment like a man until you get told otherwise, then take it like a man if you're told off

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 9:48 AM  

"And at this point, you'd have to be either stupid or willfully blind not to see the trend lines."

The trend lines are running to war. Who wins that? I'm sufficiently disgusted with the weakness and fecklessness of most whites that I wouldn't give odds on the outcome.

Anonymous trev006 November 17, 2016 9:49 AM  

Hey, fellow minorities- if parts of the USA become hostile to you under the most optimistic expansion of the alt-White, just remember that places like Compton and the wild 100's are just as bad for you, and possibly for the same reasons. You'll probably be fine in the Alt-West: lily-white liberals, however, will not and should not be.

Whether you're fine with that is immaterial. The longer it's put off, the more people are pushed to the alt-Right, and possibly the alt-White. Hillary Clinton's helped the alt-White cause even more than Donald Trump has.

Blogger Jack Ward November 17, 2016 9:50 AM  

#3 DGM
For my 2 cents and that is exactly what the Alt "Right" and the Ilk here value it. If that. is to listen to Vox; follow Chrom advice # comment 30. Learn and then try to be a productive Ilk. Ilkdom comes not easily or quickly. I know. Meanwhile no more comments from you for 30 days. Please.

Blogger Earl November 17, 2016 9:52 AM  

VOX, IS MY DEAD GRANDPA ALT RIGHT?

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 9:52 AM  

"Barriers being code word for 6yo hymens."

I thought that was Lena Dunham with her sister...

Blogger Nate November 17, 2016 9:55 AM  

Rabbits gotta Rabbit.

What we see here is rabbit people seeing the Alt-Right as a club... and they want to be in the club... and they want external confirmation that they are in fact in the club.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 9:55 AM  

"It is a form of denial. That 80% of black children are born to single parents is a fact. data. The "why" is only relevant if you desire to fix inequality, not call people who point it out names."

I think the percentages are actually higher than that. However, there is a use to pointing out the why, since much of the why is liberalism. They were doing much better before they got targeted for 'help.'

Anonymous Unprecedented Butthurt Levels November 17, 2016 9:56 AM  

Trying to apologize and offering to quietly walk away if I'm unwanted is narcissistic?

Yes. You're still talking about yourself and requesting attention for yourself. You're neither wanted nor unwanted. The blog is here for you to read, or not, as you see fit.

I took this whole exchange as a T-ball coach yelling at a daydreaming outfielder...

That shit stings when you're a special snowflake!

So... whether you keep showing up for practice or not is up to you.

Blogger Some Guy November 17, 2016 9:57 AM  

Vox,

I do have a question about welfare and the Alt-Right. Welfare is a system that seems prevalent in Western Countries that is taken advantage of by people who live withing our borders who are not the same makeup as us. Is it inherently a white characteristic, or is it a holdover from Christianity in modern secular culture?

I ask because historically it didn't exist, but in post Christian societies of the west, it seems very prevalent.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 9:57 AM  

"Analogously, you can't work on securing a future for White children when you're looking over your shoulder lest a comrade snaps and slaughters a daycare center..."

My, that _would_ be a limitation to the program, wouldn't it?

Anonymous DGM November 17, 2016 10:00 AM  

@45

I've already decided to take the rebuke and drop the subject.



@48

Fair enough. Last comment from me for a month.

Blogger FrankNorman November 17, 2016 10:04 AM  

Let's flip the matter around and ask the right questions instead.
For example: I know some nice people who've married across the colour-line. What advice should I give them about what's coming?

Blogger Earl November 17, 2016 10:04 AM  

He's also so responsive, likeable, and cuddly!

Blogger Jack Ward November 17, 2016 10:04 AM  

Hi Col. Kratman. War is it? Maybe if Trump can work his deal magic Russia and US might just become BFF. After Obama, assuming he leaves office peaceably and doesn't start a war with Russia as a parting shot, any peaceful relationship with a former enemy can only be an improvement.
But, then, you may see a 'war' as something the radical left starts out of spite the election. That is, a hot war with shooting and all that rather than a few demonstrations and a lot of bad words use in bad rhetoric in tweets.

Blogger Ceasar November 17, 2016 10:04 AM  

This all goes into the bucket of those that prefer others worry about their wellbeing/thoughts rather than put in the hard work and thought about how to secure their own welfare. The mentally and physically lazy.

Anonymous Fisher November 17, 2016 10:08 AM  

Tom Kratman wrote:The trend lines are running to war. Who wins that? I'm sufficiently disgusted with the weakness and fecklessness of most whites that I wouldn't give odds on the outcome.

Red-pilled ≠ rewilded.

Blogger Orville November 17, 2016 10:08 AM  

@59 I think he was talking race war, not war with Russia.

Blogger VD November 17, 2016 10:09 AM  

What we see here is rabbit people seeing the Alt-Right as a club... and they want to be in the club... and they want external confirmation that they are in fact in the club.

Exactly. This is just the first few drops of the coming tidal wave.

if you want to know what people like, look at what Madison avenue uses to sell to them... thats their job...

So is taking accurate polls. That's bullshit; ads are also racial propaganda these days.

Which legal system from white civilization do you think is of more benefit to the rest of humanity? Common Law or Civil Law?

Probably Civil. Even non-Anglo whites can't seem to handle the concept of Common Law.

Blogger dienw November 17, 2016 10:09 AM  

The trend lines are running to war. Who wins that?
With the ascension of Trump, the locus for war has moved away from the U.S. and lessened in Europe. That leaves the ME and China.

Blogger VD November 17, 2016 10:10 AM  

Knock it off, PA. Do try to keep in mind that my IQ is considerably higher than yours. You're not fooling anyone.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 17, 2016 10:10 AM  

If it's a choice of living under Hitler in Germany or under Stalin in Russia, I'm picking Hitler every time.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 17, 2016 10:12 AM  

Slightly off-topic, I've just had the thought that solipsism:totalitarianism::masochism:sadism. We even have analogous portmanteaus, anarchotyranny and sadomasochism.

Blogger Jack Ward November 17, 2016 10:12 AM  

At Tom Kratman:
I, too, am looking forward to the next 'Peace' novel. And, someday please do the attack on Earth to drain that swamp. In a way you could almost say the recent election was a stolen peace keeping starship entering Terran orbit with malice in mind.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:12 AM  

I'm referring to internal war, Jack, 80s Beirut on steroids and across a continent or the globe. I expect it to be along just about every fault line there is. I don't expect anybody to win; some things are so shitty there is no winning. I am not sanguine about the chances of the whites, globally and possibly not even locally. There are a couple of reasons for that. One is that the 1488 crowd don't seem to have much in the way of bleeding edge, ground gaining combat arms experience. Another is that their reaction to being informed there will be a severe price to be paid for their fantasy is _precisely_ the same as a lefty or SJW, to the extent those differ, having explained to them why their program isn't as easy or certain as all that, to paraphrase: "How dare you tell me my fantasy is tougher than I imagine? Don't you realize that because (insert reasons here) I am a special snowflake whose fantasies are entitled to deference?"

As for Russia, however, the Anglosphere and the Rus should be friends and allies. We have too many of the same enemies and, frankly, too many common interests not to be.

Anonymous FP November 17, 2016 10:14 AM  

clk wrote:"White men with Asian women" ... this is a touchy subject as many of the alt right that came to here from GG have an strong Asian fetish -- just look thru any of the computer/electronics trades magazines and you will see all sorts of hardware /software sold with advertisements showing hot Asian models -- Look this is the latest 16 channel logic analyzer, made in Sunnyvale but shown with a Japanese model -- if you want to know what people like, look at what Madison avenue uses to sell to them... thats their job...



Eh, these days if the PC/gaming tech ad has a hot Asian model (real or animated) in the ad or product art, it is usually produced in Asia or for the Asian market.

Blogger pyrrhus November 17, 2016 10:15 AM  

War involving the delicate communist snowflakes who would faint if they even touched a weapon? Doubt it....So the left would need people from other countries to do their bidding...maybe the Middle Easterners or Africans, whom Obama has been importing at great speed lately?!

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:16 AM  

"Probably Civil. Even non-Anglo whites can't seem to handle the concept of Common Law."

Civil is a disaster, the wild and idiotic written down and codified fantasies and posturing of leftish intellectuals, which is to say pretentious, credentialed idiots. The common law, conversely, works. Also, remember that the real common law drips blood, while much of what we think of as common law has been polluted and perverted by civil law.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 17, 2016 10:16 AM  

FrankNorman wrote:Let's flip the matter around and ask the right questions instead.

For example: I know some nice people who've married across the colour-line. What advice should I give them about what's coming?



Fight or flee, choose early and the preparation time will be longer. If fighting, find a compatible community. If fleeing, find a compatible community.

Blogger Jack Ward November 17, 2016 10:16 AM  

#68 Well spoken Col.
For the sake of my grandchildren I hope it all ends without violence. Yet, I do intend to keep my powder dry.

Blogger Quadko November 17, 2016 10:17 AM  

Good post. These are the questions that young men ask mentors or students ask teachers. Much easier to have it in the curriculum.

Blogger pyrrhus November 17, 2016 10:18 AM  

"As for Russia, however, the Anglosphere and the Rus should be friends and allies. We have too many of the same enemies and, frankly, too many common interests not to be."

Precisely, the main interest being the preservation of western civilization at any cost.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 17, 2016 10:19 AM  

clk
"White men with Asian women" ... this is a touchy subject as many of the alt right that came to here from GG have an strong Asian fetish

Like I said before, yellow fever is a disease, not a cure.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:24 AM  

Well...in days past I boffed a not inconsequential number of Asian girls. They're all right, but really nothing special.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:25 AM  

I have read, Jack, that Beirut began to actively and rapidly fall apart over an escalating argument in a gas line that eventually led to shooting Think we have much of a chance of avoiding that kind of argument? Me neither.

Blogger Sheila4g November 17, 2016 10:26 AM  

Something I try to impress upon anyone reading anything even slightly less than "mainstream approved" online: DON'T GET BUTTHURT. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOUR WIFE OR KIDS EITHER (or your wonderful Italian grandparents, or Vietnamese friend, etc. ad nauseam). I read (but only rarely comment) on numerous blogs where I know my personal genetic makeup would not be welcomed. It's not my business to comment or question the overall beliefs or trends exhibited by the collective readership there; I read to learn what others think and why. I've found it enlightening and humbling. While I understand personal love and loyalty (particularly to a spouse or family member), I differ from some commenters in that I think the flourishing of White people and Western society is a good in and of itself, not merely good for me and my own. It is something I support regardless of what it may mean for my personal future, because I strongly care about the commonweal. I've come to this realization over the years, despite overall libertarian impulses. As Vox has noted, man is not a rational but rationalizing creature, and we are all living off of the accumulated social capital of thousands of individuals over hundreds of years. Even if you're a natural misanthrope, as I am, no man is an island. Feel free to proclaim one's snowflake status and utter independence, and go establish your own civilization - social mores, institutes of science and learning, all on your own. Have at it. Meanwhile, I'll support the accumulated wisdom and social capital of Western men as long as I have breath.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 17, 2016 10:28 AM  

Lena Dunham's solution for now is to talk to rocks in Sedona, Arizona. No word on what the rocks said. She's also not moving to Canada.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 17, 2016 10:34 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote:The open warfare on People of Mostly Northern European Ancestry (POMNEA) is a classic case of two things:

1. The urge to destroy that which you envy.
...


More precisely, the urge to cannibalize it and wear its clothing, thereafter claiming its identity and accomplishments for yourself. WE WUZ ANGLISH.

See: modern Greeks claiming to be the same stock as ancient Greeks, the pyramids, etc.

Blogger Jack Ward November 17, 2016 10:35 AM  

@78
Yeah, stupid it is. An interesting anecdote re Beirut. May have meant the kettle was already boiling and just needed that nudge to overflow. I understand Beirut was a paradise and beautiful city not all that long ago. A real go to place, had you the money for it. Now? Just another hell hole.

Anonymous BGKB November 17, 2016 10:36 AM  

"Barriers being code word for 6yo hymens." I thought that was Lena Dunham with her sister

Dunham went after her 3yo sister. You must have missed the Comet Pizza Epstein island article & the ones near it about Pedosta codes. http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/11/high-and-hidden-weirdness.html

Lena Dunham's solution for now is to talk to rocks in Sedona, Arizona. No word on what the rocks said. She's also not moving to Canada.

The rocks said they are trying their best to move to Canada. I like that Whoopee not only isn't going but still thinks she can get preg for TRUMP to force her to carry to term.

OT: Elections have consequences http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/va-dumps-plans-sex-change-surgery

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:41 AM  

Worse than a hellhole, maybe. I like the Saudi desert, for example, and detest the Californian desert at Ft. Irwin. Why? Because the Saudi desert is generally devoid of visible life, clean, in other words, while Irwin has just enough twisted and warped life to remind me that it is no place for a human being to be. So, too, the denizens of Beirut get to see all around them the twisted and wrecked residue of what used to be, and get to know that they fucked it up.

Blogger CM November 17, 2016 10:41 AM  

I kinda get the desire to categorize oneself, but not to box oneself in. I am fully capable of agreeing with much of the alt right, holding traditional views, being a Bible-believing, Scripture memorizing, Anglican, admiring and promoting Catholicism, criticizing the Pope and STILL maintain a respectable amount of internal consistency.

Describing oneself as "Alt-Right", while certainly opening oneself up to every stereotypical characterization that comes with labels, does not make you incapable of disagreeing with some tenet.

However, if you disagree with the majority of a platform or something of high priority to you (religion/faith) contraindicates a central plank, then by all means find another way to describe yourself if you are so inclined .

Blogger Nathan November 17, 2016 10:41 AM  

Vox,

First of all, I am sympathetic to most everything that you write. I understand if you don't care. : )

Here is the problem. As a Christian, you do have to care about these things. You do need to articulate what you think the racial harmony in the book of Revelation (chapter 7, verse 9) means for us *now*. After all, as Christians, we want this - this is what heaven will be like.

And that will be hard to do, I think. When you tell us that 1% of a population can be immigrants, but not 2%, do you have a good answer for why that is the case? Why? What if someone insists its .5% or 0% and if you don't agree you are a cuck? When your arguments all come down numbers, as is apt to occur with those entranced with materialism/naturalism, I think you are screwed. You end up looking not smart, but stupid, really fast.

I am not a Keynesian or anything else. Those philosophies, including your philosophy, all have issues with them (as Steve Keen is good at pointing out). Only Christ gives us all the answers, though not necessarily in this life.

+Nathan

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:42 AM  

Ah, 3 years. Oh, well; the memory, they say, is the second thing to go.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:42 AM  

Ah, 3 years. Oh, well; the memory, they say, is the second thing to go.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:42 AM  

Worse than a hellhole, maybe. I like the Saudi desert, for example, and detest the Californian desert at Ft. Irwin. Why? Because the Saudi desert is generally devoid of visible life, clean, in other words, while Irwin has just enough twisted and warped life to remind me that it is no place for a human being to be. So, too, the denizens of Beirut get to see all around them the twisted and wrecked residue of what used to be, and get to know that they fucked it up.

Blogger Arthur Isaac November 17, 2016 10:44 AM  

What we see here is rabbit people seeing the Alt-Right as a club... and they want to be in the club... and they want external confirmation that they are in fact in the club.

I think they want external confirmation that the club is not going to be used to knock them in the head.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 17, 2016 10:50 AM  

Tom Kratman wrote:Ah, 3 years. Oh, well; the memory, they say, is the second thing to go.

You also start repeating comments.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 10:54 AM  

Yeah, but that's not me; that's some peculiarity of either my comp or this program. And it isn't even consistent or predictable.

Anonymous Baseball Savant November 17, 2016 10:54 AM  

What about my FEELZ though!?!? You don't care about my FEELZ!?!?!

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 17, 2016 10:56 AM  

@78
I have read, Jack, that Beirut began to actively and rapidly fall apart over an escalating argument in a gas line that eventually led to shooting

In chemistry, when a liquid solution is supersaturated it doesn't take much of a catalyst to start a reaction. We're not there, yet. I pray we never are.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 17, 2016 11:01 AM  

For example: I know some nice people who've married across the colour-line. What advice should I give them about what's coming?

They really have two choices:

1) Be a real, involved part of a tight community, so they come to see you as the exception to the rule. In other words, if your wife is black, then when your white neighbors see blacks rioting on TV, you want them to think, "I wish they were more like our Mrs. Smith," not, "Hmm, I wonder if Mrs. Smith wishes she could burn down our house too."

I know a guy who's as white as they come, who married a black girl. I know for certain that some of his family weren't at all happy about it, but they got married and started having kids, and I guarantee you now they'd all go Kratman on anyone who tried to harm her. That's what having deep family and community ties does for you.

2) Find a place to live where you think race-mixing will still be admired by default. Perhaps as ethnic groups increasingly segregate, committed anti-racists will gravitate to particular locations as well, and form communities where mixed-race families will be safe regardless of whether they know anyone. The trick here is identifying such a place in advance. At the moment, certain urban areas might seem the most mixed-race-friendly, but they also tend to be next door to racial tensions that could sweep over them suddenly. There's no guarantee that such a place will exist at all.

Better go with #1, if at all possible.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 11:01 AM  

" We're not there, yet. I pray we never are."

You'll know we're there when I massacre my first day care center.

Blogger Montrose November 17, 2016 11:02 AM  

I have a black cat. Can he be alt-right?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 17, 2016 11:02 AM  

@86 Nathan
As a Christian, you do have to care about these things.

Be careful. Some really stupid things have been done in His name.

You do need to articulate what you think the racial harmony in the book of Revelation (chapter 7, verse 9) means for us *now*.

No he doesn't. What makes you believe this foolishness? No one knows when Jesus will return. We aren't supposed to.

Blogger Nate November 17, 2016 11:06 AM  

"Exactly. This is just the first few drops of the coming tidal wave."

Not looking forward to that. I mean I know its necessary and in fact unavoidable... but... Rabbits are grating little creatures.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 17, 2016 11:07 AM  

VD:
The white nations of Europe are, collectively and historically speaking, humanity's golden geese. It is to the long-term benefit of all Mankind to avoid killing them, or even adulterating them, through immigration, invasion, or assimilation.

While this statement is undeniably factual, the SJWs of the hard-left and the Cucks of the soft-left don't care. Having seated themselves in the Almighty's judgement seat - they've decreed all these nations guilty - even those who never had a colony or never owned slaves - of the unforgiveable sin of rayciss, the only cure for which is death. As we've seen times far too numerous to count, facts mean nothing to SJWs and cucks. Trump or no Trump, war is upon us. We either win the war or die.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 11:08 AM  

"What makes you believe this foolishness?"

Someone here observed a while back that there is a tendency among some kinds of Prods to insist that God fit their preconceptions. This was probably a version of that.

Blogger wreckage November 17, 2016 11:09 AM  

@95 Yeah, that. The converse is that regions with little diversity may suffer little conflict. Provided you don't keep signalling people that you're a trojan horse.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 11:13 AM  

"The white nations of Europe are, collectively and historically speaking, humanity's golden geese."

Took me a while to figure out exactly what bugged me about this. To rephrase: "The white nations of Europe [were], collectively and historically speaking, humanity's golden geese. Now, however, they're senile, locked in an old folks home with poor security, and need to be on suicide watch."

I'll be more sanguine about their chances when the Germans learn to march in step again, when the antifa assholes are afraid to step foot in the streets, and when they do whatever is required to reverse their own deathbed demographics, at whatever cost in women's "rights." Until then, I'm leaning toward betting on extinction.

Blogger pyrrhus November 17, 2016 11:14 AM  

@99 "Rabbits are grating little creatures."
But rabbits can be killed with airguns....

Anonymous BGKB November 17, 2016 11:16 AM  

and I guarantee you now they'd all go Kratman on anyone who tried to harm her

Those vaginas sure do cloud peoples thinking, here is a story about a Tranny who went Kratman over a Wallmart coworker talking about his future vagina http://www.sharonherald.com/news/alleged-shooter-housed-in-special-needs-unit/article_e5ed01d6-139f-5220-8c71-643b02e6db16.html

So much for the argument of: Would republican electors who have been doxed be more afraid of the right than the left. https://www.buzzfeed.com/blakemontgomery/anti-trump-protesters-post-personal-information-of-electoral?utm_term=.doJ0Y3gnbB#.fq1qEO2o0y

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 17, 2016 11:18 AM  

Tom Kratman wrote:Yeah, but that's not me; that's some peculiarity of either my comp or this program. And it isn't even consistent or predictable.

Did you take your pills grandpa? We threw out your computer years ago.

(Please don't kill my family. xDDDD)

Blogger Sillon Bono November 17, 2016 11:19 AM  

VD is way too polite and has waaay too much patience.

I would use the more succinct expression:

"fuck off"

Anonymous Toddy Cat November 17, 2016 11:21 AM  

AS Christians, we are supposed to do the best we can in this fallen world. While racial harmony will certainly exist after the establishment of the Kingdom of God, as will universal peace, as you have probably noted, we are not there yet. Just as the universal peace that will exist in the New Jerusalem is not an argument for pacifism in our present circumstances, neither is post-eschaton universal brotherhood an argument for rampant open borders race-mixing today. As Christians, we are supposed to keep the peace as best we can, and in this fallen world that means police forces and armies. Likewise, we are to avoid racial and ethnic conflict as best we can, and that means minimizing contact, since, as we have seen, proximity + diversity = War. As followers of Christ, we are not supposed to hate other races, we are to want what is best for the - and what is best right now, for all concerned, is separate countries and civilizations. This is most certainly not a perfect solution, but we don't get that choice - this is part of what living in a fallen world means...

Anonymous Logic November 17, 2016 11:23 AM  

VD,

By this logic you should get out of Europe, stay on a reservation, stop breeding with white people, and terminate your kids if you have any.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 11:25 AM  

They're safe enough.

Actually the grandkids and I have a continuous joke going about my being escaped from a maximum security nursing home and off my meds.

Blogger pyrrhus November 17, 2016 11:26 AM  

@103 Unlimited women's suffrage and Feminism have been the poison pill for the entire civilized world. Russia has managed to tamp down the feminism, which is why it has a much more functional society currently....But the West cannot survive without going back to a system in which all voters are mature and have skin in the game. My modest proposal: all voters must be 30+ years of age (Harry Truman thought the minimum age should be 26). Men must own property, or be members in good standing of the Militia. Women must be married with children, or own significant property.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 11:26 AM  

"By this logic you should get out of Europe, stay on a reservation, stop breeding with white people, and terminate your kids if you have any."

You're not actually all that good with logic, are you?

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 11:29 AM  

@111:

As mentioned before, "Timocracy now, timocracy tomorrow, timocracy forever."

It would actually solve most of our problems. No more SJWs voting. Not so many women and fewer still of them left wing voting. A much smaller class of people voting themselves largesse, and that only after a long period of civic virtue. A harsher legal system because harsher men would be in charge, hence lots of dead criminals until we run out of them and lower crime after that.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat November 17, 2016 11:31 AM  

1) Be a real, involved part of a tight community, so they come to see you as the exception to the rule.

The most important piece of advise here is important whatever your race: be completely and utterly useful to your neighbors. When push comes to shove, if you're there to help when needed, your neighborhood isn't going to care if you're black, brown, blue, or fuchsia if they like you. We put up with my next door neighbor being the neighborhood busy-body because she loves cookouts and fireworks parties and she watches our house like a hawk. The kid three houses up has ADHD to the point you'd hit your head against the wall, but he will work, he is a better scavenger than me, and a savant with motors. Etc. Etc.

Now, the one couple across the street, that's a different story. Their race isn't the problem; it's the rudeness. They won't speak to anyone, and we're pretty sure they keep calling the cops about our fireworks. When the problems start, they won't be able to count on any help, because they haven't been helping.

Blogger VD November 17, 2016 11:33 AM  

You do need to articulate what you think the racial harmony in the book of Revelation (chapter 7, verse 9) means for us *now*. After all, as Christians, we want this - this is what heaven will be like.

Those who would build Heaven on Earth usually end up creating Hell.

By this logic you should get out of Europe, stay on a reservation, stop breeding with white people, and terminate your kids if you have any.

It's remarkable how you managed to reach the exact opposite of the point concerning the difference between micro and macro.

I'll be happy to leave Europe just as soon as everyone who is not a Native American leaves America. I didn't leave the USA to get away from the geography, after all.

Although I really don't miss the Minnesota winters one little bit.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 17, 2016 11:34 AM  

@94 The temperature of the solvent matters to how much solute can be dissolved.

Metaphorically, Mt. Vesuvi-debt heated the world's finances, while ZIRP provided pressure, keeping social strife volume relatively fixed while economic activity (jobs, GDP, etc.) in vast amounts could remain in solution.

Sooner or later, Mt. Vesuvi-Debt will blow like the north face of Mt. Saint Helens (only far worse, more like Krakatoa in the early 1800's.)

Jobs & GDP will suddenly precipitate out in vast quantity. Social strife will explode outward at 10x the velocity of C4. Interest rates will skyrocket.

It's a perfect storm, it's already on radar and the only question is when?

Anonymous Avalanche November 17, 2016 11:38 AM  

@19 "Trying to apologize and offering to quietly walk away if I'm unwanted is narcissistic?"

Yes. This isn't a one-on-one conversation where apologizing for inadvertently offending (not that you've offended Vox, I'm guessing) your conversational partner would naturally led to an apology.

This is a cocktail party with hundreds of folks chatting. Your host has laid down a bit of 'social rules for his party' -- making it clear it's not specifically directed at you, but to those (in a largish group) who are not abiding by his houserules.

You, however, have decided you need to approach the host and specifically, individually, apologize and ask him to 'console' you for having to be 'chastised' by hoping / asking / wishing for Vox to say, "no no, you can stay, just don't do it anymore."

IF Vox wanted you to slink away, you'd've already been "spammed," which here means, treated as spam and blocked, near as I can tell.

I'm certainly not speaking for Vox (heaven forfend!), but my eyebrow rose when I read your 'request for consolation.'

Anonymous patrick kelly November 17, 2016 11:39 AM  

@ Nathan:
"...Only Christ gives us all the answers, though not necessarily in this life..."

Understanding your own words here will answer some of your other questions if you're willing to listen.

Blogger Nxx 14 November 17, 2016 11:39 AM  

The white nations of Europe are, collectively and historically speaking, humanity's golden geese.

Prior to colonization Africa had a population of 100m. At the end of colonization it had risen to 200m. As such half of the world’s blacks owe their lives and existence to colonialism.

The introduction of white invented medicine and sanitation went on to increase the world’s black population to today’s 1 billion. As such 90℅ of the world’s blacks owe their lives and existence to white inventions.

Whites owe blacks for the 10.8m taken as slaves. Blacks owe whites for the 900m of them who wouldn’t exist but for whites. Whites owe reparations to blacks and blacks owe creation fees to whites.

According to mathematics 900m is more than 10.8m, specifically 83 times more. As such blacks owe whites $83 for every $1 that whites owe blacks.

Anonymous Baseball Savant November 17, 2016 11:39 AM  

It's remarkable how you managed to reach the exact opposite of the point concerning the difference between micro and macro.

This is the biggest problem I have when discussing these topics with colleagues.

Blogger SDaly November 17, 2016 11:40 AM  

"It doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that."

Anonymous Avalanche November 17, 2016 11:52 AM  

@80 "Lena Dunham's solution for now is to talk to rocks in Sedona, Arizona. ... She's also not moving to Canada."

She probably thinks she HAS moved out of America: "Toto? This doesn't look like LA anymore..."

Blogger ZhukovG November 17, 2016 11:54 AM  

@VD, I imagine the Italian climate is something easy to become accustomed to.

Anonymous Oye November 17, 2016 12:00 PM  

@62 & 71

"Probably Civil. Even non-Anglo whites can't seem to handle the concept of Common Law."

"...while much of what we think of as common law has been polluted and perverted by civil law."


Anglos don't understand it too. The proliferation of administrative law in the Commonwealth countries of U.K., Australia, and New Zealand is a testament to this. US has a proliferation of administrative law as well.


"Also, remember that the real common law drips blood"

Sharia law too.

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes November 17, 2016 12:00 PM  

Vox's brusque bedside manner is like that of a gifted proctologist who eschews the use of jelly...

What I would say to anyone with mixed race concerns is this: Chill out. There are tens of millions of people just like you. Even the most lily white among us have friends and relatives with foreign adopted children, or mixed race marriages. Nearly every one of us has some degree of admixture. We have a very, very messy society right now and it's going to take a long time to sort all that out.

It's my view that a racially pure America is no longer remotely possible. Yes, partition is unavoidable (the first war will be hispanic, as they are already the majority race in parts of the west/southwest, and groups like La Raza, Aztlan, and Mecha are agitating to reclaim their land. The Trump victory is an early battle in that war), but the demographic reality of America today is unlikely to produce a pure homogeneity even if it comes down to outright civil war. I suspect that a new "proposition" will emerge, one that accepts mutts under certain conditions.

Anonymous Avalanche November 17, 2016 12:02 PM  

@108 "while racial harmony will certainly exist after the establishment of the Kingdom of God, as will universal peace,"

HOW do y'all mesh this peace-love-dove kumbaya crap ("happening sometime in the future"), with God at Babel: dividing up and separating the races/tribes; forcing on them separate languages even so they could NOT be sitting together holding hands and singing Coca-Cola advertising songs?!?

WHY do y'all think you can just blow that off as "we believe in racial harmony (but not yet)"? If GOD (seemingly) did not believe in racial harmony -- whointhehell are y'all to say: well, it's gonna happen when God gets here?!

Baffled.

Anonymous Oye November 17, 2016 12:02 PM  

@119

How is Talmud study going?

Blogger ZhukovG November 17, 2016 12:03 PM  

@Tom Kratman, I am more optimistic than you regarding the future of the European peoples both in America and Europe. I believe that we will win but it will be more difficult than most imagine.

However, I don't believe that the American Union will remain intact. I believe the United States will split into around half a dozen independent nation-states.

Blogger VD November 17, 2016 12:08 PM  

It's my view that a racially pure America is no longer remotely possible. Yes, partition is unavoidable.

Try putting those two thoughts together and you'll come to a more realistic scenario.

There will be a racially pure America. There will also be a racially mixed sort of America. And there will be several not-Americas, some of which will permit whites, some of which won't.

Anonymous Avalanche November 17, 2016 12:14 PM  

@119 "As such half of the world’s blacks owe their lives and existence to colonialism."

I keep wanting ask my bitter, hostile, race-focused, race-baiting, idiot-liberal black bro-in-law: if his forebears had not suffered a hellish conquering/abduction by other blacks, sale, and sailing (the horrors of which I do not deny), would he today be a Hutu slicing off Tutsi arms? A Tutsi getting his arms sliced off? The slave of some Arab moslem? A Bantu of some variety killing and EATING pygmies?

How can he possibly blame Whites for HIS astonishingly privileged situation?! He should be thanking Whites every single day for "his" penthouse apartment (supplied by my idiot-liberal lawyer sister) in NYC! He should be grateful beyond words!

Family "harmony" -- and the fact that that side of the family and I are rarely in contact -- let me just dream of that conversation....

Blogger Roger Hill November 17, 2016 12:14 PM  

I would ascertain that a question about one's personal circumstances, but which is asked on the basis of accepting and agreeing that diversity + proximity = War, is not what gets under Vox's skin. Would it not be question about one's home and family that are meant to call into question the premise?

I asked a question in another thread, and he and others were kind enough to offer advise. I asked because I have realized just how correct the Altright understanding is... and to be honest, I just wanted some thoughts on how best to proceed under those circumstances.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 12:22 PM  

I can imagine the possibility, Z, but I do not think it likely.

Anonymous BGKB November 17, 2016 12:22 PM  

I am more optimistic than you regarding the future of the European peoples both in America and Europe. I believe that we will win

The main reason they will win is that 3rd worlders can't survive past the snow line without white/east asian people handing out stuff to them. There are still white people that can go out to the forests in wintertime & survive.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 12:23 PM  

"However, I don't believe that the American Union will remain intact. I believe the United States will split into around half a dozen independent nation-states."

It may well not. If it does not, God grant that it not be because I have failed to kill enough people.

Anonymous Oye November 17, 2016 12:33 PM  

@115
"The white nations of Europe are, collectively and historically speaking, humanity's golden geese. "
"Although I really don't miss the Minnesota winters one little bit."

Igloos are simple Inuit technology.

Not the Scandis, nor the Asiatic nomads of Siberia incorporated snow into their vernacular architecture. Whites use the Igloo today, prolifically, when exploring the extremes of the world as they do.

The Inuit didn't need to know this: https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/6a4a4c79fbba9390fff06bdd0b54952773ad004f

Give and take golden eggs.

I understand that general supremacy ≠ golden geese. But it is a tempting cognitive mistake to make.

Blogger tz November 17, 2016 12:35 PM  

There was and is already partition, even after the war between the states, but even before then there was a partition.

The soft way is to shrink the Federal Government so the Peoples Republics of California, Oregon, and Washington can turn into Venezuela, and the deep red states can return to an earlier version of America. My state had the highest proportion 70& Trump, 23% Clinton.

If the left coast blue counties don't split from the red inland ones, there will be a huge migration and the red states will get more read, and even the liberals that left California might have to go back to a left coast state.

The South is still solid, as is yankeedom.

We are already partitioned. We were always partitioned. Due to economic and world events like the Great Depression and world wars, there was some migration, but that was a dilution, not an integration. There is far less diversity than is imagined.

If the Feds try to force any more proximity, it will result in official secession.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 12:36 PM  

"The main reason they will win is that 3rd worlders can't survive past the snow line without white/east asian people handing out stuff to them."

Unfortunately, Steve, Islam has a great many followers who are perfectly comfy in snow, as comfy as whites because they _are_ whites.

Blogger Jack Ward November 17, 2016 12:39 PM  

@Col Kratman:
about my being escaped from a maximum security nursing home and off my meds.

Somehow I would rather you not be on any meds. And, I know for damn sure your enemies would not.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 12:39 PM  

What you're doing there, tz, is using semantics that don't quite fit. There was a partition of India and Pakistan. There was a partition of Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. But of those were dependent upon cultural and ethnic fault lines that predated the partition, and drove, but _were_not_the_partition_. We are not now partitioned; we have cultural, ethnic, and philosophical fault lines, quite deep ones in many case. We will not be partitioned until we are, in fact, politically split up into separate full sovereignties.

Anonymous Avalanche November 17, 2016 12:39 PM  

@125 "groups like La Raza, Aztlan, and Mecha are agitating to reclaim their land."

Allow me to go "meta" for a sec about your phrasing: you’re accepting their premise.

(As I understand it – dimly – it was not "their" land. The "Spanish" who lived there were beyond fed up with "Mexico" promising things and never delivering; they fought to LEAVE Mexico and join Texas/America.)

Might be better to stop using their word choices (and the picture it draws/baggage it carries) and say, instead, something along the lines of: "agitating to conquer parts of the country they choose to believe were taken from people who may or may not have included their forebears."

Not trying to speech or tone police (I think?): I'm pointing out that word choice and phrasing sets up a picture in the reader/listener's head. "They want it 'back'" works for them; while this does not: "They want to take" (or "steal" -- since they were not agitating for it until Whites built it up to American standards...) "lands that are and were not theirs."

(Tech editor by training, student of rhetoric by (new) choice: (seeing and) challenging the (often hidden) premises underlying anyone's phrasing helps you see what they're trying to do. (Thus, arguing "I am NOT a racist" is accepting the attacker's premise.) (ACK! And on re-reading: here I am, doing dialectic again.)

Suzette Haydn Elgin has great stuff on recognizing and defusing/disentangling covert verbal attacks in her book-series entitled: "The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense." (Albeit they're all contaminated with her feminism.)

My fav example (mainly cause I can remember it) is when someone tries to manipulate you by saying: "If you LOVED me, you'd do thus-and-so."

Rather than responding to the (not-so) hidden attack ("you don't love me") -- and trying to convince your attacker that you DO SO love them (total non-winner!); you look astonished and cry in apparent horror: "When did you start thinking I don't LOVE you?!?!"

That throws them back on the other foot! Suddenly, instead of YOU trying to convince them of something they already know full well (you love them -- or their manipulation wouldn't work), now THEY must defend themselves about THEIR (malicious) premise.

Anyway, well worth reading one or two or more of the series. Very helpful seeing "hidden" attacks. (A very common one, too: "I was only joking, you're being too sensitive.")

Blogger Anthony Gillis November 17, 2016 12:46 PM  

Seriously, to preen and posture and pretend that your personal situation is even remotely relevant to whether diversity+proximity=war is just embarrassing.

This. The VFM motto of "We Don't Care" is a good Alt-Right maxim too, because reality doesn't care. It isn't your personal emo session, it doesn't give a damn about whatever you think your personal exceptions are, and it doesn't make adjustments for your feelings.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 17, 2016 12:47 PM  

Whoever lived on it and whatever they wanted or didn't, Avalanche (I am tempted to shorten your nick to Ava), it was their country's or culture's property that was taken by force. They're perfectly reasonable to still think of it as theft. If we'd lost Maine to Canada in the War of 1812, would be be obliged to accept that in perpetuity? I don't think so.

Everyone lives on conquered, taken land. It's yours if you can take it and keep it. If not, not. At this level it's theirs if they can take it and keep it, ours if we can hold onto it.

We have to hold onto it, because the southern border we have is the most defensible one we're going to get.

Blogger Wanda Sherratt November 17, 2016 12:49 PM  

This sort of questioning angst may be an aspect of the "religification" of politics: trying to use politics to fill the role that religion once did.

Those questions could be the basis for a discussion with a priest: "The Bible says X, but I've been doing Y; what does this mean for my soul, and what should I do as a result?" But the difference between the alt-right and say, Catholicism, are obvious. Catholicism is a cosmology: it purports to be able to provide an answer or an explanation for everything that exists. And its claims are similarly sweeping: that following its rules and explanations will provide a path to God and to life as it is supposed to be lived.

Politics is not supposed to be so ambitious, but the Left has managed to elbow aside religion and arrogate its claims to itself. The fact that it consistently fails to deliver the promises of a religion doesn't deter Leftists from bulldozing ahead. The querulous posts you describe are a leftover of that habit of expecting some political party to be able to provide an answer for everything.

Blogger Can't wait November 17, 2016 12:58 PM  

@86 Nathan,
I think your reading your own globalist-influenced preferences into God's Word.
1) "As a Christian, you do have to care about these things." Yes but what things exactly? Where in The Word is God's demand that I care that race-mixing is practiced and performed without complications and consequences? God has a lot to say on this, just never in an approving way. Did Jesus empathize with the Samaritan woman at the well over the prejudice of the Jews toward her people? Did Christ care about racial harmony (or national, in the case of the Romans?)
2) "the racial harmony in the book of Revelation (chp 7:9) means for us *now*." You misread the message again. The harmony described in Heaven is due to the multitude's focus directed to the glory of God. This harmony is not man-made, nor earthly present (or possible), or based on geopolitics and citizenship. Your trying to equate two completely different constructs.
3) "After all, as Christians, we want this - this is what heaven will be like." Like shooting fish in a barrel; your wrong again. We as Christians want an eternal relationship with God in Heaven, not a false, replica of our own design. I want to glorify God, not peace with the world. Read your Bible- God does not provide peace where not warranted or contrary to His plans.
4) " this is what heaven will be like." Wrong again! (You might set a record!!) Heaven will not be like "this". Equating Heaven to this fallen world is foolishness. No matter how much "peace and love" SJWs, cucks, and christards preach, it want never be like Heaven. (John 16:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”) and (Mat 10:34-36 Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.) Peace is not meant for this world, otherwise God would have to replace Satan. Don't fall into the christards trap; study 1 Thes 5. Here God offers peace in the last days to believers but not to the world or between believers and the world.
5) Don't be so obtuse. It's not about specific numbers, but the consequence of trends related to numbers. The less the merrier.
6) "You end up looking not smart, but stupid, really fast." Mirror meet Nathan.
7) "Only Christ gives us all the answers, though not necessarily in this life." For the last time, WRONG. The Truth of all things is also revealed in God's Word, the account of Christ, the indwelling Spirit, the fellowship with other believers, His creation, and our God imparted soul which directs our conscious to deliver God's approval to us.
Listen to God's principles not mans. (1 John 4:6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.)

Peace

Blogger Nathan November 17, 2016 1:05 PM  


#98

"No he doesn't. What makes you believe this foolishness? No one knows when Jesus will return. We aren't supposed to."

If you don't think pictures like this aren't supposed to have some affect on us now, I don't know what to say. We are always supposed to care for our own first, but also to increasingly love the whole world (even those who are explicitly our enemies even though, yes, we do not need to be neighbors with them) Even going beyond even what the good Samaritan did, as is appropriate given our circumstances.

#118 Patrick Kelly

"Understanding your own words here will answer some of your other questions if you're willing to listen."

I think I am open to reason.

Here's my point people are not addressing (in #86) - without something besides numbers, which the materialists/naturalists love, you end up going in a bad direction. I mean 1% immigrants - how do you know that is optimal? Why not 10%? Is that really so bad? Why aren't you a cuck if you don't say 0%?

But this is just the tip of the iceberg-problem. I understand that many in the Alt Right are now concerned with equal rights, even as they want separate nations. That said, where, one wonders, has “the force of the best reason” ever shown that “all humans are created equal and are entitled to equal rights”? Which non-theist philosopher – or philosophers not influenced by theists – has ever been noted to say something remotely like this? You need Jesus, which means you need His strong (and obvious) love for all persons.

Think about it - when we reduce this to shades of color, or the genome, or the IQ, we are playing with percentages and numbers and fire. Just like the Stoics puzzled over when a bunch of sand grains became a pile, doubt, as the Christian influence dissipates, can now introduced about when we are dealing with another who is "OK" - human enough... my brother enough. Numbers gives persons just another out - perhaps a big one, given its roots in "reason" - for treating the other as less than fully human... not a sufficiently evolving human (i.e. less able or willing to adapt to changing circumstances such that they will remain socially viable so that their genes will be passed on) – when times get rough.

+Nathan

Blogger FrankNorman November 17, 2016 1:10 PM  

119. Nxx 14 November 17, 2016 11:39 AM
Whites owe blacks for the 10.8m taken as slaves. Blacks owe whites for the 900m of them who wouldn’t exist but for whites. Whites owe reparations to blacks and blacks owe creation fees to whites.

I do not grant the idea that whites, collectively, owe blacks anything for the slave trade. The people who were buying those slaves bought them at the price the African chieftains who were selling them asked, did they not?
If you sell something you're not supposed to later want to raise the price retroactively.

And in any case, what's that got to do with all the rest of us whites? Most of us have never owned slaves, or bought them, or had anything to do with them.

Blogger Nathan November 17, 2016 1:15 PM  

Can't wait #144,

When I meet a brother in Christ on earth, no matter what his color, I am very happy that we both find our telos in Jesus. This can't be about numbers. It is about being my brother's keeper. I am not insisting that means in each and every case he needs to be my next door neighbor - I might not even want that, depending on his culture. That said, I don't see why I must be opposed to it either. Christ brings some measure of healing in the fallen world. He destroys the barriers between men and women, barbarian and Greek, etc. That means something here, does it not?

+Nathan

Blogger Nate November 17, 2016 1:20 PM  

" He destroys the barriers between men and women, barbarian and Greek, etc. That means something here, does it not?"

shhhh.... churchian... your understanding is flawed.

Blogger Can't wait November 17, 2016 1:28 PM  

@126 Avalanche
I agree with your identification of the obvious inconsistency between contemporary churchianity position of "peace at all costs" and the Genesis 11 accounting God's creation of nations. It is understood by most theologians that the best conclusion for God's deliberate establishment of nationhood is to avoid a repeat of what occurred at the Tower of Babel. His plan was to separate people with sufficient differences with the intention that they not reunite. Rather, nations will compete and form "natural" barriers preventing one "nation" from getting too big and proud, thereby denying His greatness for theirs. This is why God has often used nations to war with each other. It is in His purpose that they keep each other "in-check" as a method of balance.
Today's christards can't comprehend a God whose plan is deliberate, permanent, and consequential for those who disobey.

Anonymous Athor Pel November 17, 2016 1:37 PM  

"Nathan November 17, 2016 10:41 AM
...
Here is the problem. As a Christian, you do have to care about these things. You do need to articulate what you think the racial harmony in the book of Revelation (chapter 7, verse 9) means for us *now*.
..."



Nathan,
I wrote a reply then I went to read Revelation chapter 7. Then I erased that reply and wrote this one.

I say some pretty stupid things sometimes and I try to learn from them but I'm not sure anything I could say to you would help you in your stupidity. I'll try anyway.

It's up to you Nathan.

Either stay stupid or read the whole Bible, pray hard about it and then think on what you read. Then keep thinkng some more. Don't open your mouth. Keep thinking and read the Bible again. And again. And again, as many times as needed, until you figure out why your question is stupid. Then keep reading and praying for the rest of your life.


Special hint: God's chosen people after taking the promised land divided it by tribe, thereafter living in separate geographic areas, each tribe in it's own prescribed area. Put on your thinking cap and try to figure out why that was.

Double plus special hint: Context is important for understanding a message, even if it's part of the book of Revelation.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents November 17, 2016 1:40 PM  

@140 Avalanche
(As I understand it – dimly – it was not "their" land. The "Spanish" who lived there were beyond fed up with "Mexico" promising things and never delivering; they fought to LEAVE Mexico and join Texas/America.)

You don't understand. Texas 1836 is one event. US armies invading Mexico from multiple directions 1844 is a different event. Mexican schools teaching that the entire US southwest was stolen, and La Reconquista is the duty of every Mexican is another different event. The "brown power" movement that copied "black power" starting in the 1960's is a related but different event. California uni's have "Chicano studies" departments that are just as old as the "black studies" departments. There's money to be made in fostering discord.

The MecHa-istas have a creation myth that involves "Atzlan", supposedly the original home of the Aztecs. It just happens to consist of California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. There are places in SoCal where you can buy T-shirts with the map of Atzlan on it. It's a meme that's been around for years. They have a goal, a country with only "golden people", guess who that is?

Not All Mexicans Are Like That, sure. A whole lot don't care, they are after all peasants at heart. Many of the smarter ones are pretty integrated into the US culture. Some of them work for ICE. But go find a map of the US election results by county, and look at Texas. Outside of Austin, Dallas and Houston it's very red, except along the Rio Grande where it is very blue.

That's the beginning of a partition right there.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 17, 2016 1:43 PM  

@150
Double plus special hint: Context is important for understanding a message, especially if it's part of the book of Revelation.

FIFY.

Blogger Can't wait November 17, 2016 1:50 PM  

@147 Nathan,
1) "When I meet a brother in Christ on earth, no matter what his color, I am very happy that we both find our telos in Jesus." All in Christ believe this, but I will meet my Nigerian bother in Nigeria, not next door.
2) "This can't be about numbers". Its not, it about location (proximity).
3) "It is about being my brother's keeper." You misapply Scripture again! The term "bothers keeper" (Gen 4) refers being a brother-in-Christ to our proximal believers with which we have a relationship with in our specific Churches. Not to travel the world chasing down the needs of all. To re-orient yourself on this concept read Gal 6:1-2 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
4) "I might not even want that, depending on his culture. That said, I don't see why I must be opposed to it either." You just agreed with my position. If I don't "want that", I will oppose that. Otherwise I'm a classic "cuck".
5) "Christ brings some measure of healing in the fallen world." I provided you with Mat 10:34 already. I can submit many other supportive scriptures, but I don't think it will help you.
6) "He destroys the barriers between men and women". You misread God's Word again. This is way showing you Truth does not affect the beliefs you hold. One more attempt...This passage you quote from Gal 3:28 has nothing to do with our relationships with mankind, but the relationship of mankind to God. Using your logic stream leads to the typical churchianty claims supporting feminism and homosexuality.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 17, 2016 1:55 PM  

Nathan, how about if you go engage this brother?

4 problems associated with white evangelical support of donald trump his article at the Gospel Coalition is part of the current food fight over the election. He doesn't seem to believe that whites who voted for Trump have the same standing before God that he and other black folks do.

Blogger stevo November 17, 2016 2:29 PM  

You can't fault rabbits for wanting to be friends with the wolf

Blogger stevo November 17, 2016 2:33 PM  

So the alt right could be described as "how things work when shit gets real"

Blogger stevo November 17, 2016 2:38 PM  

Well said

Blogger William Meisheid November 17, 2016 2:39 PM  

" He destroys the barriers between men and women, barbarian and Greek, etc. That means something here, does it not?"

shhhh.... churchian... your understanding is flawed.

As is yours. There were problems with social boundaries within the early Church but that was mostly economic and there has always been a tendency to see the materially blessed as blessed by God, something the Puritans had to deal with, for example.

As to the divisions Paul addresses in Galatians being brought to naught within the Body of Christ - a single entity composed of every nation of the earth - the New Testament seems to expect those boundaries to disappear within the Church. Paul, a Jew and a Roman Citizen, had no problem living within the Church in Judea or Asia-Minor or Greece or Rome.

I have been a member over my life of racially mixed and racially pure churches and like Vox noted, racially mixed proximity = war being one interpretation, another would be racially mixed proximity = stress and stress exposes weakness. Christians are supposed to deal with this stress/weakness in an appropriate manner.

However, the world has never been, and will never be, essentially Christian, even though Western Civilization's best impulses owes a lot to it seems to be a given that those stresses will lead to conflict and conflict will lead to violence and violence will lead to war, unless something steps in and breaks the chain. Sometimes it does, many times it doesn’t and things spiral away.

The easy answer is to remove the stress, be essentially separate, but how that would actually work with all of the boundaries suddenly appear in a modern technologically connected world is not simple thing to understand and maybe it is not soluble. We shall see.

Blogger stevo November 17, 2016 2:56 PM  

Wow. You're good

Anonymous Discard November 17, 2016 3:03 PM  

37. tz: Orientals are not smarter than us. Not even Chinese are smarter than us. The ones we see are selected, not typical.

62. VD: "...the first few drops of the coming tidal wave"...of rabbits seeing the Alt Right as a kind of club... and they want to be in the club.
YeeeHaaw! For the first time in my life, I'm on the cutting edge. Late to growing my hair long, late to wearing bell bottoms, but now I'm hipper-than-thou, you wannabes.
Most of us were stupid once, but a few bitch-slappings helped. No grudges.

Blogger tublecane November 17, 2016 3:10 PM  

I don't think correctness or incorrectness is the issue. Ideologies, political movements, etc. aren't all about Truth. People do care about being right or wrong, but a goodly portion will pick the wrong side if it will advance them personally. If I was an economics professor I'd be tempted to preach Keynesianism over rival schools whether or not it was true, because that'd give me a much higher likelihood of keeping my job.

Same with politics. People talk like they want to be on the right side, as opposed to the wrong side. But they also want to be on the socially acceptable side, the winning side, the side that won't get them shot, and so forth. So they'll pretend the side that works out best for them is the side of Truth, because that's what people do.

I have half a mind to accuse the people asking you to disentangle their pretzeled family trees for alt-rightyness of fraud. They could merely be trying to sew discord, and drive perfectly comfortable alt-righters to distraction with fever dreams of violent ends for their non-white or foreign brides, children, next door neighbor, etc. in the coming race war.

Blogger M Cephas November 17, 2016 3:19 PM  

The alt-white, does in fact care about him/her, the individual that asked the question. They wouldn't label people like him/her a rice-chaser/race-traitor/mudshark unless they very much did care about him or her, and the decisions he or she made.

There are those of us that have the same goals. Putting an end to mass immigration, building a wall, deporting illegals. But I don't care if any individual white person wants to date any individual non-white person.

I think the alt-white will remain a small cult like element of the alt-right. They'll attack people like Cernovich, Vox, or Roosh, for either mixing or not being white, but the majority of the alt-right will not give a damn.

Anonymous Elijah Rhodes November 17, 2016 3:28 PM  

@140:

"groups like La Raza, Aztlan, and Mecha are agitating to reclaim their land."

Allow me to go "meta" for a sec about your phrasing: you’re accepting their premise.


I was accepting nothing of the sort, but rather phrasing it from their perspective, not mine. They believe we stole their land. Reality doesn't change that.

Blogger tublecane November 17, 2016 3:29 PM  

@71-The real common law also relies on judges. Judges' minds have been colonized by the left. That would've happened with or without runaway civil law, in my opinion.

Jurisprudence is locked inside the Mind Prison.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey November 17, 2016 3:43 PM  

Noice. Also:

"How, then, would one regard an individual who asked the following questions?"

If I may venture an answer to a question that is clearly rhetorical: I would regard them (if they're serious) as either a woman, or hopelessly feminized. Otherwise, they're leftist trolls.

Blogger tz November 17, 2016 4:56 PM  

@139 - I agree, though those lines are there and will be brought into higher relief.
@160 - IQ, they are smarter by a few points. They are less creative or aggressive since they are far more conformist. So they are very good at copying but terrible at creating. We are the borg.

Anonymous Sestren November 17, 2016 4:58 PM  

I skipped reading the comments on this one so apologies if this was already discussed.

This issue (the questions being nonsensical) seems to me to be largely a terminology problem. Alt-right means both alt-right the loosely organized group of individuals and alt-right the political theory and so you get questions that amount to "can I join your club? oh and also I don't understand/like your theory." (questions that still don't belong on this blog, but might make more sense)
The same way that science was decomposed into scientistry scientody and scientage and alt-right (the group) decomposed into alt-white and alt-west, it could be useful to make a distinction between the theory and the group.

Blogger Can't wait November 17, 2016 5:04 PM  

@158 William Meisheid,

I take no great issue with your assessment but for the following, "Paul, a Jew and a Roman Citizen, had no problem living within the Church in Judea or Asia-Minor or Greece or Rome." This could not be further from the Biblical account.
In Paul's travel he experianced the foreign cultures as follows;
1) was cast in prison with Silas in Philippi,
2) escaped a riot against them in Thessalonica,
3) faced hostilities in Berea from unbelieving Jews,
4) escaped a riot against them in Athens,
5) Seized and beat by a Jewish mob in Jerusalem,
6) Arrested in Jerusalem by Romans and threatened with scourging,
7) Imprisoned in Caesarea for 2 years,
8) House arrested in Rome,
9) Imprisoned in Rome,
10) Martyred in Rome

During Paul's mission trips, even His Church life in different lands had issues;
1) In Antioch, He and Barnabas fought and separated,
2) In Jerusalem, He chastised Peter,
3) While teaching, the Church in Miletus split up.

Remember, there was conflict from diversity of the earliest Christian Church, as one can read of the fights between the Greeks and Jews over favoritism of support to widows.

Lets not romanticize away the historic realities which revealed challenges encountered by Paul as he traveled and engaged with foreign cultures. I say this not to dissuade our Christian duties in the world, but to counter a narrative suggesting that issues won't exist in the Church, with some of these based on cultural differences.

These problems will not exist in the One Church of the New Jerusalem, but have and do here on earth in our sinful state. I too have worshiped in mixed and mono-ethnic churches. I have seen the issues these naturally create. I propose the easiest action is to focus on complete theological consistency with Scripture combined with an active defense of cultural homogeneity within the Body as necessary. This allows for welcomed exemptions within the congregation but without the irreconcilable schisms that can arise.

Peace

Anonymous Mark Auld November 17, 2016 5:20 PM  

Excellent and to the point.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT November 17, 2016 5:53 PM  

So...this post means it's about me?

Honest question directed at Vox: has anyone ever asked you what Alt-Right philosophy means for their wife's son?

OpenID paworldandtimes November 17, 2016 6:02 PM  

Tom Kratman: my apologies for the two upstream comments. I could have made my point without passive-aggressively sniping at you. As a former soldier myself, let me say: "No excuse, sir."

PA

Blogger VD November 17, 2016 6:08 PM  

When I meet a brother in Christ on earth, no matter what his color, I am very happy that we both find our telos in Jesus. This can't be about numbers. It is about being my brother's keeper. I am not insisting that means in each and every case he needs to be my next door neighbor - I might not even want that, depending on his culture. That said, I don't see why I must be opposed to it either. Christ brings some measure of healing in the fallen world. He destroys the barriers between men and women, barbarian and Greek, etc. That means something here, does it not?

It doesn't mean one single thing. Give up your Churchian cucking. You are deceived.

Christians aren't even commanded to free their slaves. They certainly aren't commanded to overturn the nations.

Anonymous BGKB November 17, 2016 6:52 PM  

They have a goal, a country with only "golden people", guess who that is?

Mexicans of both sexes really hit "THE wall" in their late 20s.

Anonymous Discard November 17, 2016 8:31 PM  

173. BGKB: There are a number of Mexican women who keep their looks for decades, even after bearing children. They also, in my experience, smart and hard-nosed. They're impressive and look four inches taller than they are. They might be Mestizo, but they carry themselves like Spanish aristos.

Blogger Rusty Fife November 17, 2016 8:51 PM  

Discard wrote:173. BGKB: There are a number of Mexican women who keep their looks for decades, even after bearing children. They also, in my experience, smart and hard-nosed. They're impressive and look four inches taller than they are. They might be Mestizo, but they carry themselves like Spanish aristos.

They're called "hooker heels". Just take your eyes off the boobies and look down.

Blogger wreckage November 17, 2016 9:41 PM  

@176 The ruler exists to destroy the wicked. No nations, no rulers. This debate over anarcho-theocracy and state already happened, and the ancient writers and prophets came down on the side of the nation-state.

The pivotal emotional point occurs in Judges.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+19

The common culture is gone (there is no hospitality offered to the traveler) and in that context the model of law of the Judges, of settling disputes as they arise, is no longer useful.

It is at this point that the people require a King, and specifically a militia, to enforce order and suppress those elements that have abandoned the common culture and thereby can no longer be trusted with lawful anarchy.

Anonymous Discard November 17, 2016 11:52 PM  

175. Rusty Fife: Nope, they looked tall because they had a lot of self-respect and carried themselves accordingly. You didn't notice how short they were until you got close.

Blogger William Meisheid November 18, 2016 12:30 AM  

@168 Please learn to read accurately.

I said Paul had no problem living within the Church. I did NOT say the pagan world the Church found itself in. None of your examples relate to the Church and as such are not contextual to my point.

In the context of this discussion, non of the three problems you pointed are relevant. They were not cross-racial problems.

No one is romanticizing anything, but that is a good way to dismiss the clear demands of the Gospel. No one said problems didn't, don't, and won't exist in the Church; it is composed of human beings who are still limited to some degree by the "old man" but that is the problem, not the solution, which can never be to divide the body, the ONE body of Christ and no part can say to any other part I do not need you.

It is late and I am tired but this is the best I can do as a quick response.

Blogger William Meisheid November 18, 2016 12:32 AM  

172. VD You are mixing categories. No need to overturn the Nations as you put it since in the Body of Christ we are one body. How that shakes out, I do not know and neither do you but I do know you are mixing the problems of the profane with the demands of the Gospel on the life of the Church.

Blogger Nathan November 18, 2016 1:27 AM  

Vox,

To my comment in #172, you say:

"It doesn't mean one single thing. Give up your Churchian cucking. You are deceived.

Christians aren't even commanded to free their slaves. They certainly aren't commanded to overturn the nations."

Vox, I think you are thinking about things in terms of power (going with yours' and the materialist fixation with numbers). I don't believe Christians were commanded to free their slaves. No, Paul, asks (not commands!) Philemon to receive his slave back as a brother:

"...For this perhaps is why he was parted from you for a while, that you might have him back forever, no longer as a bondservant[c] but more than a bondservant, as a beloved brother—especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.

So if you consider me your partner, receive him as you would receive me...."

In other words, love, not just power, is in the mix as well. There is nothing "churchian" in what I wrote. I'm not trying to "overturn nations". I do, like you, think that nations need to be and should be largely ethnically homogenous. I just genuinely want to know more about why 1%, for example, is the magic number... (i.e. reasons).

+Nathan

Blogger Can't wait November 18, 2016 2:15 AM  

@168 William Meisheid,

My reading skills...;) Can you show me where I can READ one verse, or even an related interpretive suggestion, in Scripture to support your claim "Paul had no problem living within the Church"?

You continue, "none of the three problems you pointed are relevant. They were not cross-racial problems." Where do you READ this? How do you know this?

I deliberately provided an example of the early Church where Scripture specifically sites ethnic complexion as a cause of Church strife (Acts 6:1).

So as not to belabor the point, I will only detail one example I provided. You claim Paul's Church life in his travels was without discord, I contended from Scripture that you were wrong (Acts 15). We know that the Church of Antioch was not comprised of a homogeneous ethnic makeup but rather included Greek, Cypriots, Syrian, Cyrenaics and others. Though, admittedly I can't directly attribute the multi-ethnicity of this church to the issue Scripture reveals, I can contend, with equal certainty as anything contrary, that the multi-ethnic Church of Antioch was not without disharmony.

The various examples I put forth demonstrated the apostles life of drama and trauma in his travels. These definitively indicate that his foreign experiences lacked the idyllic nature you seem to expect from church life (or at least, and more importantly, Christian living). These are relevant and support my position, unless you demand we consider Paul's life strictly as activities within his church (which is pointlessly limited and hence irrelevant to our adopting a useful principle from it- aside from those who live in a monastery).

Our everyday experience, and news from around the world, shows that ethnic diversity creates social issues outside the Church. Could it not inside as well? I think we all know the answer. Paul's life was challenged in foreign lands, in part, by the foreign people he encountered. My point: one must consider how ethnic diversity can disrupt Christian living, especially within one's own church.

I stand by my suggestion to limit fostering cultural diversity within the local church body to avoid unnecessary conflict. I would extend this to all areas of living if possible (school, work, recreation, etc.) In further support of this, I refer you to study the historic and current state of The Church around the world. It was, and still is today, a body of believers, individually by church, represented by a homogeneous ethnic collection consistent with the local demographics. When ethnic diversity locally exists, multiple Churches exist, dominated by single ethnic groupings. This is not only an American phenomenon, but global.

Blogger Nathan November 18, 2016 7:42 AM  

Vox,

Ephesians 2:11-22 comes to mind as well. People from various tribes and nations are joined as one body in the church. This certainly has implications now as regards how we should see and interact with one another. Even if one also maintains that nations should be largely ethnically homogenous, the Christian's love for his brethren in Christ, far and wide, should, in general, be even stronger than his love for his own countrymen: "Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers."

+Nathan

Blogger Nathan November 18, 2016 7:59 AM  

Can't wait #153

"The term "bothers keeper" (Gen 4) refers being a brother-in-Christ to our proximal believers with which we have a relationship with in our specific Churches."

First, yes, the local is primary. Still my love for those in the church not local should exceed even my love for my earthly countrymen (a love that should also be strong - I should love my countrymen, starting locally, more than by non-Christian non-countrymen). This should manifest itself mostly in prayer. One need not feel unnecessary guilt about not being able to physically help everyone. We should focus on the non-local ones the Lord throws in our paths in personal ways.

"I might not even want that, depending on his culture. That said, I don't see why I must be opposed to it either." You just agreed with my position. If I don't "want that", I will oppose that. Otherwise I'm a classic "cuck"."

I never said otherwise. I am for limited immigration and hope Trump follows through on many of his promises here. My challenge to Vox has to do with his assertion that 1% of a nation can be immigrants without a problem. Looking for more info, a defense. I really want to know and am not just trying to "catch" him. Though, I will say, as I have written here, I think relying on real numbers in our arguments is a foolish path.

"Christ brings some measure of healing in the fallen world." I provided you with Mat 10:34 already. I can submit many other supportive scriptures, but I don't think it will help you."

I am familiar with Matthew 10:34 and of course fully support it and its true meaning, which is that the world hates Christ and His message. The cross if foolishness to the world. To say that "Christ brings some measure of healing in the fallen world" opposes this passage if false. Again, as I noted above, look at Eph. 2:11-22. This is basic Christian doctrine.

""He destroys the barriers between men and women". You misread God's Word again. This is way showing you Truth does not affect the beliefs you hold. One more attempt...This passage you quote from Gal 3:28 has nothing to do with our relationships with mankind, but the relationship of mankind to God. Using your logic stream leads to the typical churchianty claims supporting feminism and homosexuality."

I agree that the passage in Gal. 3:28 is talking about salvation before God and not revolutionizing what is in nature. I agree that man is the head of woman. Nevertheless, Christ's gospel creates a Church begins to give us a measure of peace with one another that we previously did not have with one another. Again, Eph. 2:11-21 exemplifies this.

+Nathan

Blogger CM November 18, 2016 12:29 PM  

My challenge to Vox has to do with his assertion that 1% of a nation can be immigrants without a problem. Looking for more info, a defense.

If this is your only concern, he has played with this number before. It is based in observing history and drawing conclusions based on the information he has gleaned.

It has ranged anywhere from 1 to 5%. It isn't precise, but neither does it need to be as VD isn't in charge of anyone's immigration policy. Perhaps if Trump calls him up and asks him to help Jeff out, Vox will get more precise than "very low amount" with more dialectical reasoning.

If you want to know why small amounts, there are other posts where everyone tossed around numbers.

Blogger wreckage November 18, 2016 10:36 PM  

@184, I've seen Vox toy with "anything under 20%", so it's certainly in contention. I would guess a nation can handle about 2-3% from any given other compatible nationality, provided the total stays under roughly 10% long-term.

Blogger Nathan November 19, 2016 12:03 AM  

CM, wreckage,

Thanks. Appreciate the responses. What I think would be interesting is a post from Vox explaining the reasons why things can start to go wrong with immigration. Obviously, immigrants who want to destroy our country are bad news and those who do not want to assimilate or honor our system of government undermine and hurt our country. But what are some of the other reasons persons don't think about? I wonder if you could talk about this compellingly and persuasively (for those with ears to hear) without even needing to talk about percentages...

+Nathan

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 20, 2016 8:52 AM  

Where do me and my flock fit into the alt-right?

Pure genius, man. To answer your question, you belong on a hill or mountain where your flock has a competitive advantage, but you may find that they increasingly don't resemble you, and (just a reminder) you're going to die. So, your legacy is abstracted.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 20, 2016 9:10 AM  

Which legal system from white civilization do you think is of more benefit to the rest of humanity? Common Law or Civil Law?

Definitely English, if administered by old-school uncucked Englishmen. If administered by Jews, your question is irrelevant.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 20, 2016 9:17 AM  

I know some nice people who've married across the colour-line. What advice should I give them about what's coming?

Tell them to play half-elves or half-orcs in a Pathfinder game, so that they can relate better to their offspring's experience.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 20, 2016 9:30 AM  

Slightly off-topic, I've just had the thought that solipsism:totalitarianism::masochism:sadism. We even have analogous portmanteaus, anarchotyranny and sadomasochism.

Sure, just swap in tyranny in place of totalitarianism and you're golden.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 20, 2016 10:45 AM  

Rabbits are grating little creatures.

It's okay. You and VD and whoever else can just assume that they're not even asking you. (It is logical to assume that if you have expressed a disconcern for a question, then it is not directed at you.) I and people like me will take care of them. Just scroll.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 20, 2016 11:28 AM  

Family "harmony" -- and the fact that that side of the family and I are rarely in contact -- let me just dream of that conversation....

You just contradicted yourself -- you're rarely in contact, so it wouldn't really impact your harmony.

So go ahead. Next time he objects to the manner in which his ancestors were brought here, remind him of how his kin back home live. Remind him of who pays his rent; ha, just like an African to want to live like a lion, and only do protection, not provision.

And then tell him to either go home to Africa where he can amputate albinos and poop on the beach and tell women to shut up, or shut up himself.

[For the newbies, that's rhetoric.]

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