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Tuesday, November 15, 2016

Mailvox: but what about MEEEEE?

One thing that I've found interesting is the intrinsic solipsism possessed by many stranieri resident in the USA, some of whom actually think that pointing out the fact that their lack of an American heritage, or their children's lack of an American heritage, comprises a coherent argument against my various observations and expectations for the future rather than underlining it. This email from an Englishman married to a Filippino is fairly par for the course.
I'm English and I moved to the States more than 20 years ago, as a young man. I'm a naturalized citizen. I voted for Obama twice and, this time around, I voted for Clinton, but I can understand why people recoil from the worst parts of her candidacy. Regardless, to me, as a European liberal, she was going to protect things that believe in. Not as much as Bernie might have, and I voted for him in the primaries. Anyway, this is all incidental and background. I wanted to ask you about the language of race ebing used by the alt-right and by Trump both during the election and afterward. And whether it makes you feel at all queasy.

As an empathetic person I'm always trying to understand both sides: I can see why someone in Virginia, or Pennsylvania, or Florida, or wherever, is upset that illegal immigrants have taken their jobs. And I understand, and have been outspoken in my way, about the rise of Islamic fundamentalism here, and everywhere. I understand it all. These are real threats, not imagined. But here's my problem: how do we become unified as a country if some groups have been singled out to be treated differently? My wife was born here in the States, but her family is Filipino. Both her parents are doctors who came to the States in the 1970s. They have lived the American dream. They worked like dogs for years and now they own a big house in the middle of the country, and a house in California, and a house in the Philippines. They have their Audis and there Mercedes and their Porsches. Clearly, they deserve what they have worked for. We disagree politically. They voted for Trump, I think.

My wife is American. Speaks like an American. Went to school and got a master's degree in America. Highly educated. And we're waiting for the moment that someone who doesn't know her walks up to her in a grocery store and tells her to go home. Where is home? She doesn't speak Tagalog. She can't go to the Philippines. And why should she. She's American. Our children, we have three boys. I'm waiting for them to come home from school to tell me a classmate told them they're different, not American enough, not good enough. That they are what's wrong with America.

So I'm wondering, does the alt-right have any reservations at all about framing the discussion in this way. Identity politics is only okay if you can know for certain you're getting the identities right. Isn't diversity good? Right now, we're wondering if we should take our American kids and try to get jobs in my native England instead. I'm not being egotistical but I think we have so much to offer America. We can't do it if people look at my brown children and assume they have no place in shaping it. Do you have any concerns that demonizing the groups that people belong to instead of the bad actors within them will have negative results?

Taken to its logical conclusion: if Trump's candidacy ignites a race war, would you be happy, or sad, or indifferent?
In answer to the questions:
  1. No, "the language of race" being used by the Alt-Right and by Trump doesn't make me at all queasy. I think it has been remarkably restrained, considering the seriousness of the situation.
  2. Why would the Englishman be concerned about "the rise of Islamic fundamentalism" here and in England but reject the obvious American concerns about the invasion by people like him and his wife? Don't Muslims have the same right to invade other countries and settle in them en masse that Englishmen and Filippinos do?
  3. The man's wife and her parents should consider going home. Because it is home. They even have a home there! They're not American. They are Filippino. That's why they're waiting for someone to tell her to go home. She knows she's not at home in America and he knows it as well. It is no one else's fault that she didn't learn her native language and it is no one else's problem either. His kids are not part of what is wrong with America because they are not American. They are invaders and settlers, just as the second-generation Muslims who have driven the native English out of Bradford are invaders and settlers.
  4. The Alt-Right has no reservations at all about framing the discussion this way. The Alt-Right does not hide from reality, whether we like it or not.
  5. Identity politics do not need to be "okay" any more than gravity or sunlight do. Identity politics are normal, historical human behavior that always dominate multiracial societies. And history shows that an angry invaded people fighting displacement in their own homeland tend not to be very careful about identities; the lines usually end up being drawn in a rather crude and binary fashion.
  6. No, diversity is not good. Diversity is very, very bad. Diversity destroys community. Diversity + Proximity = War.
  7. America neither wants nor needs what the Englishman is offering. Tens of millions of Americans would probably like to deport him on the basis of him being a foreigner who voted for Obama and Clinton alone. He and his children would have even more to offer the less-developed Philippines, but the truth is that he doesn't give a damn about Americans, what they want, or what they need, he's merely intent on living wherever he thinks it would be most beneficial to his family. He's concerned now because he's beginning to sense that the ground is shifting underneath his feet and it may not prove to be the most beneficial place in the future.
  8. Why should his brown children have any place in shaping America to their liking? They are not American and what they want is not what native Americans want. Geographic location is not nationality. I didn't become Japanese because I lived in Tokyo, and I'm not Italian just because I reside in Italy and speak Italian. Nationality is not a difficult concept, it is not an abstract concept, and it consists of considerably more than official government paperwork.
  9. No one is "demonizing" anyone. To observe that the man, his wife, her parents, or his children have zero American heritage between them is not demonization, it is accurate observation. We can also observe that their behavior is very much in line with the Alt-Right's predictive model for it. He's not concerned that the Alt-Right is wrong, or evil, he's concerned that we are correct.
  10. It is not Trump, his candidacy, his presidency, or the Alt-Right that will ignite a race war. What will ignite ethnic conflict in the USA is the same thing that has always ignited it everywhere around the world since the dawn of Man; the presence of different ethnicities in the same geographical location. This outcome has been the most likely one since 1965, and no amount of solipsism, handwringing, appeals to emotion, and searching for a Nazi bad guy is going to avert it.
BN has a rather different perspective:
Read your article today. On the train I dug out The Fate of Empires by John Glubb as it reminded me of what you were saying. It still amazes me the reaction one gets when it is shared with liberals. If they can move beyond coarsely dismissing the author they sputter and say "America is different. We are different." Is there any scenario you see the identity politics and brewing ethnic tensions in the US de-escalates? I think if Trump utterly fails as president maybe it defers it. But just do not see him failing.
The fact is that only Donald Trump can significantly delay the inevitable strife, and he can only do so by accepting a lot more of it than most Americans are presently willing to accept. If Trump somehow managed to return the US demographics to 80-85 percent white in the next eight years through immigration restrictions and repatriations, that would buy the USA at least another generation, and possibly two, of relative domestic tranquility.

Even a return to the pre-1986 amnesty demographic balance would be a de-escalation scenario. But I find it very hard to believe that the God-Emperor Ascendant has the vision, or the nerve, to push that far ahead of the conceptual curve. The best we can probably hope for is that he will keep the situation from actually getting worse, and thereby stave off serious domestic conflict until an eventual financial collapse, which I anticipate in the early 2030s.

And finally, a reader from Bradford adds a somber note:
The community of my street doesn’t exist anymore. The social organizations don’t exist any more. It’s all been erased except that the stone, brick and mortar still stands.
Devastating. That is what the Englishman and his family have to offer America. Social destruction. And that is why all sane Americans should want them to go home, whether that is Manila or Bradford. It's not about the quality of the immigrants, the scale of the mass migration has rendered that irrelevant now. It's a simple and straightforward matter of quantity.

That is what the Alt-Right is standing against. That is why the Alt-Right exists.

Labels: , ,

380 Comments:

1 – 200 of 380 Newer› Newest»
OpenID paworldandtimes November 15, 2016 5:27 AM  

I can see why someone in Virginia, or Pennsylvania, or Florida, or wherever, is upset that illegal immigrants have taken their jobs.

This isn't primarily an economic matter. It's not even about fear of terrorism. It is about not wanting to see foreign/brown faces in our country, communities, schools and so on.

PA

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton November 15, 2016 5:48 AM  

One thing I notice the concerned outsiders never do is ask what they can do for us. If they truly felt they had nowhere else to go, and had they a drop of wisdom, they'd be looking for ways to make alliances that likely benefit the host disproportionately in order to save their own asses.
I understand the fear and concern, but not the way these types deal with it. They're not even trying to calm the alt-right/nationalists.They're fanning the flames and continuing to say "our hosts don't matter. be nice to us!"

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton November 15, 2016 5:49 AM  

@1 "This isn't primarily an economic matter. It's not even about fear of terrorism. It is about not wanting to see foreign/brown faces in our country, communities, schools and so on."

In the US, it's been far more forgiving than that. It's more about just wanting to see a white face in the sea of brown every now and then.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable November 15, 2016 5:51 AM  

illegal immigrants have taken their jobs.

This isn't primarily an economic matter.


Disappearing jobs ARE primarily an economic matter. If whites living in Michigan for generations cannot find work because their factories have gone to Mexico or because people from south of the border are doing them here cheaper, where exactly are they to be employed? And how can America prosper if large numbers of them become/remain welfare-dependent?

The presence of a disproportionate number of brown faces on American soil is the most visible evidence of the problem, sure, but even if even if the jobs were being outsourced to Scandinavia or were being worked by illegal Canadians in Michigan, you'd still have an huge economic issue.

Anonymous JAG November 15, 2016 5:54 AM  

Regardless, to me, as a European liberal, she was going to protect things that believe in.

Like child rape, sex slave trafficking, RICO level racketeering, pay for play, selling of influence to foreign enemies, satanism, and a plethora of various other felonious activities?

An "empathetic" person would feel "queasy" at the thought of someone like Clinton anywhere near the levers of power. This guy is merely another sociopathic shitlib.

Blogger Stilicho November 15, 2016 6:01 AM  

Despite his claims of being American, his politics are explicitly anti-American, his values are anti-American, and his posterity is anti-American. No small wonder that he is waiting for actual Americans to recognize this and tell him and his family to go home. He should stop waiting and start moving.

Blogger MATT November 15, 2016 6:01 AM  

Detractors don't understand that it doesn't matter if he isn't the savior of this nation. He represents a glimmer of hope that may lead to a slight shift on the right direction. Ron Paul had no chance. He was swept away and ignored, but Trump is the Alpha to Ron Paul's skawking Omega.

Anonymous JAG November 15, 2016 6:02 AM  

Right now, we're wondering if we should take our American kids and try to get jobs in my native England instead.

Yes, he should absolutely do this as it is the best he can "offer" the United States rather than providing a vote to the likes of Obama and Clinton.

Blogger Lovekraft November 15, 2016 6:07 AM  

Very good primer for understanding the left's meltdown:

from Bixxy Noodles on MPCdotforums

Cognitive dissonance is a major problem in our over-SCALEd society. The information control systems (education-media complex) used by our governing order to manage the people and keep them in line lead directly to the people adopting a lot of conflicting and wrong beliefs in order to adapt to the system and get by. The indoctrination of these conflicting beliefs happens mostly in education, while the purpose of the major media has been to reinforce them via "the narrative" and provide a vehicle for the management of any cognitive dissonance which does arise.

This election has been a case study in this dynamic. The regnant orthodoxy demands that its partisans believe all sort of incompatible and false things: everyone is equal except white males, faggotry is normal and healthy while traditional marriage is rape, debt is money, and way too many other examples to list. Because of the constant, competing cognition these nonsensical and contradictory beliefs generate, the people who hold them are in a nearly constant state of emotional disequilibrium. They are temperamentally brittle, and easily perturbed into emotional outbursts as their cognitive dissonance essentially causes their brains to lock up and blue screen.

The old media narrative control system evolved specifically to mitigate this problem. By dramatically narrowing the Overton Window and ruthlessly deprecating everything outside of it, the amount of contradictory stimulus and information generating dissonance was reduced. They also provided mantras as tools for people to use to insulate themselves from dissonance: extremist!, racist!, conspiracy theory!, dangerous!, insane!, etc.

The advent of the internet undermined and routed around this control and management system, to the point where, in The Current Year, the only people still using the old media are the ones who need it most to manage their dissonance problems.

Anonymous Jack Amok November 15, 2016 6:08 AM  

One thing I notice the concerned outsiders never do is ask what they can do for us.

Well, their assumption is that by being here as examples they are doing us a favor. We can gaze upon their beatified countenances and be uplifted. Isn't it enough that they provide us benighted Amerikanski with an example to aspire to? What more could deplorables such as us ask for?

Verily, by relieving ourselves of these people we are pinching off a loaf to spite our feces. Wait, possibly I've garbled that saying...

Ah, but to return to sanity for a moment, Deadmaus is correct - these types don't think of what they could offer us, at least not in terms of anything we might want. They only think in terms of what they have to sell, never in terms of what anyone else might rationally want to buy.

Anonymous MonkeyMonkey November 15, 2016 6:09 AM  

But how do we become unified as a country if some groups have neither the desire nor the capacity to be unified?
How do we become unified as a country when the country is merely seem as a sinking ship to be looted by everyone?

If foreign peoples can't to assimilate into American culture, the only way to be unified would be for Americans to assimilate into the foreigner's culture, that American culture should disappear through miscegenation, eventually unifying the country into a Mexico or a Caliphate or something else (that would not be America)...

What you could really ask is how do we become unified in spite of the natural human tendency to prefer one's own kind? What measures will be required to get the American people to give up and submit?

Blogger JACIII November 15, 2016 6:12 AM  

Had a similar conversation yesterday.

He should leave. It will be difficult to pick a side or even get a side to have his family. And a country in "interesting times" is no place to be if there is a place of refuge elsewhere.

Your skin is your uniform is a very gray area for some. I can imagine the consternation, "but it thought we were post racial!"

Blogger Lovekraft November 15, 2016 6:12 AM  

I tried to explain to a doe-eyed liberal how conflict is a constant using the example of a people living in a fertile plain, and other living in the rugged nearby hills. The hill people will want what the plains folk have. And there's no amount of appeasement the fertile people can do to prevent that.

Anonymous Otis the Sweaty November 15, 2016 6:16 AM  

Is it necessary for economically developed white countries to have a relatively small, but still significant, minority population to inoculate them from cucking out? I am worried that if we make America 90% white again that we will backslide into cuckdom. No minorities = no white racial consciousness.

After the Left is destroyed, we can't take any risk of having conditions where it could potentially rise again.

Blogger Ben Sanderson November 15, 2016 6:20 AM  

It was the last sentence which is salient. I predict a soviet union-style collapse of the USA by no later than 2050. Indeed, I was going to invest money in a mutual fund, I even applied for the paperwork from Vanguard. But if you're in the alt-right, and you read voxday, heartiste, counter-currents, etc...it isn't advisable. I'm therefore taking that money I was going to invest and will look into some kind of high-yield money market savings account.

we're on the cusp of a race war. I'm wondering where it will flare up first. we're talking national guard situation here. and the eventual partition of the USA wherein whites are located in the north, blacks in the southeast and hispanics in the southwest. we have. no. choice.

Blogger Trid November 15, 2016 6:26 AM  

Ruthlessly policed ethic cantons of model minorities should do the trick. Not much diversity in Chinatown, so proximity shouldn't be an issue

Anonymous JAG November 15, 2016 6:26 AM  

we're on the cusp of a race war. I'm wondering where it will flare up first. we're talking national guard situation here. and the eventual partition of the USA wherein whites are located in the north, blacks in the southeast and hispanics in the southwest. we have. no. choice.

The hispanics will not get Texas or Oklahoma. Texas already has precedent on kicking out Mexico.

Blogger Stilicho November 15, 2016 6:33 AM  

The explicitly rascist dindus, Hindus, and mooshus always claim to be "post-racial". What they mean by that is "anti-white". I for one am tired of them culturally appropriating our indoor plumbing, but I suppose I should be grateful.

Blogger wreckage November 15, 2016 6:33 AM  

@16 I can't see any other way out of it that doesn't itself kick-off a race war. There's precedent in religious conflict. It could be possible for a multi-ethnic monoculture. Not for a multi-cultural multi-ethnic situation, as far as i can see.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 15, 2016 6:35 AM  

You could boil the crux of the matter down even further:

#1: You think of yourself as English, your wife as Filipino, and you children as English/Filipino. You even refer to yourselves as such. You do not think of yourself as American FIRST and ONLY.

#2: Why should actual Americans think of you as Americans rather than as English and Filipinos?

#3: You vigorously slurped down the lie of diversity, you invested your future and the future of your children in it. You've got no one to blame but yourself.

#4: You've got two options. Either integrate as fully as possible, or get out. Become American, and American ONLY, or GET OUT.

#5: If you choose to integrate utterly and completely, and yourself and your family exemplify such, people will step forward to defend you when the time comes. If not, it's stupid of you to still be here, why are you still here?

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 15, 2016 6:38 AM  

The Brit could have voted for Trump, like his wife did, if he really was that concerned. At least, he should have not voted. Yet, he voted for his best interest.

Anonymous Eric the Red November 15, 2016 6:41 AM  

@9 Lovekraft

Nah, it's too verbose, and it doesn't provide a tinker's damn worth of information as to what to do about it.

It's past time to analyze the enemy.. they're the enemy, and they need to be not only defeated but utterly destroyed.

Blogger ChickenChicken Sweep November 15, 2016 6:45 AM  

I'm English

Those are the first two words and this clumpnugget can't figure out the central issue. Make him swim back to Ingerland.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 6:45 AM  

You've got two options. Either integrate as fully as possible, or get out. Become American, and American ONLY, or GET OUT.

It's probably too late for the former. That's an option when foreigners aren't a significant minority. Once they've formed a competing identity, as they have, there is no going back.

Anonymous Bobby Farr November 15, 2016 6:49 AM  

This limey is the perfect counterexample for those types who talk about continuing to allow immigration from white countries, as though it were somehow necessary or desirable. They are merely the least bad foreigners. Still foreigners and still shouldn't be welcomed.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 15, 2016 6:57 AM  

@24. VD, the way I see it, it works itself out either way. Either one identifies with us fully, or we identify them as Other. You've got a solid point though in that he and his family certainly don't have enough time to breed their skin tones to white, and almost certainly won't change their ideologies and identities either.

Trying to assimilate in at this point is very much the "throw yourself on the fire in faith and pray it spares you" option.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 6:59 AM  

This e-mail is, itself, an expression of identity politics.

Anonymous the management November 15, 2016 7:00 AM  

Once during a long train ride in Germany, two black American soldiers latched onto me for conversation because they couldn't speak a word of German. By the end of the ride I realized that I felt far more comfortable, and had much more in common, with white Germans than I could ever have with these two "fellow Americans".

And this was long before being red-pilled.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 7:02 AM  

To the Englishman: Moving to England would be a very bad idea. The fact is that the UK is going to be far more racist and identitarian than the US in the near future, either because it becomes all Muslim or because it becomes all white.

If you move, move to the Phillipines: your children will integrate much better there around people who look like them. Hell, being a bit lighter-skinned will give them a bit of a leg-up socially.

Anonymous Takin' a Look November 15, 2016 7:02 AM  

-OT

As usual, our (((ancient friends))) are opening up the gates of Toledo to the Saracens

http://www.timesofisrael.com/jews-and-muslims-ramp-up-alliances-in-wake-of-trumps-election/

Blogger Lobo Util November 15, 2016 7:02 AM  

" I'm waiting for them to come home from school to tell me a classmate told them they're different, not American enough, not good enough. That they are what's wrong with America."

Notice he is waiting? It never happened. It happened in his mind a thousand times, but not once in reality. His kids and his wife know he is waiting. They will soon come home and say, "A white person committed a micro-aggression." Then he will feel justified because someone looked at his kid a second too long and looked away without the proper facial expression.

The problem is that they HOPE they can claim the title of "The Offended." Instead they should learn to ignore it. That is where being an adult starts.

Blogger Chent November 15, 2016 7:05 AM  

Vox, I understand what you say.

But you are an American living in Italy. As an expat yourself, what do you think it will be the solution for expats? Going home? Would you go back to the United States?

Don't get me wrong. I am not questioning. I am really interested to know what do you think about that. I don't think it is a topic that has been defined by the Alt-Right (yet). But I could be mistaken.

My opinion is this: there have always been people like expats. They were isolated individuals and not a community. Ambassadors, business people, you name it. They often married local women. This is completely different from two million of people from country X creating a community in country Y.

But this is my opinion. What is yours. As an expat, what do you think it is the solution for people like you?

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 7:08 AM  

That said, I don't necessarily advise moving. On the policy level, I'd support a law that sends you back. On the personal level...I'd say stick it out for now, we aren't sure how this thing is gonna shake out yet. There might be a small Chinese nation on the West coast soon that you and yours could thrive in, or a reasonably integrated South. All we know is that race war is coming, because that's what happens when the gravy train stops.

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton November 15, 2016 7:11 AM  

@26 "Either one identifies with us fully, or we identify them as Other."
We'll likely identify him as "other" anyway.

The only thing I can see getting foreigners off the hook is a long paper trail of nationalist sentiment,probably including bashing their own people and previous culture/race while praising us as superior in one way or another, and a network of locals willing to vouch for the foreigner and put themselves at risk for him.
I've met a handful of foreigners who are loved by locals and hated by their former countrymen for these exact reasons,and one could assume they'd be willing to fund or fight for our side.Anything less than that sounds less than adequate when considering loyalty and potential to integrate.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume November 15, 2016 7:13 AM  

So, this retard moves to the USA, presumably because it's a better place to live than Europe.

When he gets here, he votes for a candidate who is a European Liberal (not to mention twice for a Manchurian Candidate) who will seek to make his newfound "home" MORE like the pseudo intellectual cesspool and welfare state of the Europe he left behind.

Am I getting that right?

Dude, get out. You're not welcome here.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 7:13 AM  

Chent wrote:But this is my opinion. What is yours. As an expat, what do you think it is the solution for people like you?

Imagine your neighbors looking at you down a rifle scope and wondering "Is this guy on my side or not?" This is why skin color is so important in a race war, even though it's not all that important for studying genetic ancestry (unlike, say, bone structure). Go where you look as much like your neighbors as possible.

OpenID basementhomebrewer November 15, 2016 7:16 AM  

TL;DR
"Why don't you want me in America? I am an American citizen that calls himself an Englishman and votes my European liberal values. Why won't you let me change your country into what I want it to be?"

Anonymous trev006 November 15, 2016 7:16 AM  

What are your kids going to do when someone comes up to them in the grocery store? What will they do when someone throws a brick through your window?! If you can't take people being mean, how will you handle the inevitable violence? Plan moving to save yourself a lot of time and money.

If any minorities want to stay in America, they need to be ready to fight, and ready to fight for the white majority. Who also happen to be the armed part of the country. Given the current state of the GOP, this is the absolute best time to volunteer, and it won't get this good again. The rise of exclusive white nationalist thinking has already happened- your challenge right now is to prove more useful to white voters and President Trump than Vox Day. By the way: that will be hard.

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 15, 2016 7:17 AM  

The “post racial” thinking and “diversity is our strength” B.S. (along with feminism, and more) is a lot like veganism. It's the notion that we can “rise above” our human nature just by force of will and “eat ethically” regardless of the coding in our genes. It's delusional and it can kill you (and will in the long run).

OpenID basementhomebrewer November 15, 2016 7:19 AM  

Bobby Farr wrote:This limey is the perfect counterexample for those types who talk about continuing to allow immigration from white countries, as though it were somehow necessary or desirable. They are merely the least bad foreigners. Still foreigners and still shouldn't be welcomed.

In his case he is just as bad as anyone immigrating from the 3rd world. He came here and started voting to allow more people from the 3rd world because those are "his values". That makes him nearly identical politically to a 3rd worlder.

Blogger peter blandings November 15, 2016 7:19 AM  

we're on the cusp of a race war.
the race war has been going on for 30 years. whites just haven't realized it until the last year or so. and some are now thinking of fighting back. we have to get on it fast. people who are projecting out 20 or 30 years are dreaming. it's here now. many whites still don't have a clue that they're being attacked. they should not be forgiven for their tardiness. an initiation should be required.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 7:20 AM  

But you are an American living in Italy. As an expat yourself, what do you think it will be the solution for expats? Going home? Would you go back to the United States?

It totally depends. I am looked at as an ally by the Europeans around me because a) I look like them, b) I speak their language, c) I am not making any attempt whatsoever to force them to accomodate me or change the way they live. But I know that me and my family are, and will remain, stranieri and conduct myself accordingly. I don't vote. I don't agitate.

More importantly, there is precisely one American expat within 30 minutes of us, who is unlikely to be here long. As I repeatedly point out, the problem is QUANTITY.

If my family and I were unwanted, I would not hesitate to leave. But we have gone all-in on integration and that is obviously respected in these parts. Many do not even know we are Americans, they usually assume we are Europeans from a different country.

Anonymous VFM #6306 November 15, 2016 7:25 AM  

"But...I've been a voting unAmerican for 20 YEARS! Doesn't that count for something?"

Uh...

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 15, 2016 7:25 AM  

basementhomebrewer wrote:Why won't you let me change your country into what I want it to be?"

Excellent summation!

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 7:27 AM  

peter blandings wrote:we're on the cusp of a race war.

the race war has been going on for 30 years. whites just haven't realized it until the last year or so. and some are now thinking of fighting back. we have to get on it fast. people who are projecting out 20 or 30 years are dreaming. it's here now. many whites still don't have a clue that they're being attacked. they should not be forgiven for their tardiness. an initiation should be required.


I expect the difference between identity politicking and race war will be one of those "I know it when I see it" things.

Blogger Chent November 15, 2016 7:28 AM  

Thank you, Vox, for your answer. I think it's clear now.

I am also an expat (but an European expat in Latin America) and I agree with you.

Blogger APL November 15, 2016 7:32 AM  

Reminds me of the Partition of India into what is now Pakistan and India. That involved some of the most barbaric ethnic violence and an enormous migration of populations across the new border.

Not many people liked the partition, but loads of people didn't want to find themselves on the wrong side of the border, either.

Blogger Roger Hill November 15, 2016 7:33 AM  

How to proceed in my own circumstances....
First, allow me to say that my views on politics have gone through a rather long, sometimes rocky, change. I voted for Trump. I supported Ron Paul in the previous two election primaries (2008, 2012). Prior, I was a bit lost in what direction to go, still sorting out the problems that I began to see in neocon foolishness.

My wife and I (both Caucasian) adopted a daughter from China. She is older now, obviously. She considers herself about as 'American' as I consider myself. But these revelations have been personally troubling for me, obviously. I love this child. Would die for her. And I am so very proud of the young, strong, intelligent young lady she has become. Her Christian faith is mind blowing for me.

I see no way through the coming years other than to continue to be frank and open with her. We chose foreign adoption for a number of reasons. Overall cost being an issue, the concern about parental rights disputes that can arise, my wife's repaired heart condition which made domestic adoption far more difficult, and the mere idea of helping an abandoned and sick baby girl was also strong on our minds.... Thus, it was a list of both selfish and less so concerns that brought us to China.

But here I sit. Loving a child who I adore and who adores me. I am Dad. Any thoughts of wisdom, tempered with understanding and the truth, would be greatly appreciated. I know I have asked no specific questions. That is because I don't even know specifically what to ask. Perhaps I am trolling for sympathy, if I am honest with myself. I'm down right convinced I did a foolish thing years ago.. I there is no way to put back now. The cure might be far worse than the error. Still, I have no desire in my heart other than to do what is right by her now.

Blogger wreckage November 15, 2016 7:37 AM  

Not hard: assimilate, and love the locals.

If you want to be seen as American, BE American.

Blogger Elizabeth November 15, 2016 7:39 AM  

Interesting that you predict a financial collapse in the early 2030s. A friend of mine, a recently-retired financial adviser and strong Trump supporter, told me that Trump knows what to do and will stave off the inevitable economic collapse until 2032. A Clinton victory would lead to a collapse right around the corner.

Blogger wreckage November 15, 2016 7:40 AM  

@48, sorry, I wasn't actually addressing you, but I think it is the key.

We're not heading into mindless violence yet, hopefully not even eventually. I think you will be perfectly OK. Be known, be part of the community. It may even help, if things degenerate, to go somewhere as white-bread as possible. A minority of 1 is no threat.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 7:41 AM  

The only issue I would take with this post is that its a bit off to call legal immigration invasion. Vox didn't invade italy or japan. Mourning drunken white widowers do not invade jamaica when they move there to live out their remaining few years in a time honoured stupor.

But it wasn't the englishman or his bride that caused this... it was the very real invasion of mexicans that pushed it so far over the line. And I agree... once the tipping point is reached... what sort of out-sider you are won't matter much. You're just going to be seen as an outsider.

as for the long term prospects... there is a way out beyond race war. But that's something that will have to be fleshed out more than a mere comment here can allow for.

Blogger SteelPalm November 15, 2016 7:43 AM  

No one knows what the future holds.

I imagine some immigrants will do well and live safely in a community that accepts them here. Others will leave, whether of their free will or by force. Others will die.

However, I can say with absolute certainty that this haughty English liberal and his Filipino kids will NOT thrive in the future, regardless of what reality comes about.

They are observably not American, have no desire to be American, and aren't even a part of any sufficiently large, powerful, and well-organized minority community.

I agree with others that it's likely best that he leave. Not least because he voted for Obama and Crooked Hillary.

OpenID paworldandtimes November 15, 2016 7:43 AM  

People who adopt foreign children are rightly resented for importing alien seed to our country. If we're speaking frankly, it's pollution. Of course, quality matters. A Chinese girl is not the same as an African boy.

PA

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 7:44 AM  

'The community of my street doesn’t exist anymore. The social organizations don’t exist any more. It’s all been erased except that the stone, brick and mortar still stands'

Get off your ass and re-build it. And if that is not possible... then leave it. Find a place where it still exists, or can be rebuilt, and rebuild it.

Your neighbors should interact with each other every single day. You should see and speak to at least one of your neighbors every day. When the bad times come... these are the people who will be on your flanks.

Blogger The Observer November 15, 2016 7:47 AM  

@48:

"WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?"

Sorry, that one has been used too much.

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 15, 2016 7:49 AM  

The error that almost all fall into (and I myself have to remind myself of) is that Vox and the Alt-Right aren't necessarily prescribing identity politics, etc., they're just acknowledging its reality and inevitability. It's a lot like HBD, and, as I referred to earlier, the fact that humans are omnivores who need to eat meat.

Many are shocked and appalled by those things, but that doesn't change the reality of the world. Resisting those truths just leads to trouble.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 7:50 AM  

But here I sit. Loving a child who I adore and who adores me. I am Dad. Any thoughts of wisdom, tempered with understanding and the truth, would be greatly appreciated. I know I have asked no specific questions. That is because I don't even know specifically what to ask. Perhaps I am trolling for sympathy, if I am honest with myself. I'm down right convinced I did a foolish thing years ago.. I there is no way to put back now. The cure might be far worse than the error. Still, I have no desire in my heart other than to do what is right by her now.

First, understand that with whom she ultimately identifies will be up to her. I know an adopted Korean girl who identifies strongly as Korean. I know a Korean girl, raised by Korean immigrant parents, who always dated whites, married a white man, and almost exclusively associates with whites.

So, you never know. But if things continue to heat up, I would consider moving to an Chinese-dominated area. Better you take the brunt of racial discrimination than her. After all, it was your choice that put her in that situation.

It's not necessary now, I don't think. But all you can do is be honest and do what is right by her. That's the thing. We all made choices on the basis of limited information and what we believed at the time, and we all have to live with the consequences of them now, whether they were wise or foolish.

OpenID luciussomesuch November 15, 2016 7:50 AM  

"When he gets here, he votes for a candidate who is a European Liberal (not to mention twice for a Manchurian Candidate)"

Voted twice for the Manchurian Candidate, and then once for Angela Lansbury.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 7:57 AM  

Diversity + Proximity = War

I would like to see this corrected over time to Diversity + Proximity + Economic Hardship = War. This has the additional benefit of explaining why working whites are already up in arms, whereas white elites are being caught completely by surprise.

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric November 15, 2016 7:57 AM  

VD wrote:You've got two options. Either integrate as fully as possible, or get out. Become American, and American ONLY, or GET OUT.

It's probably too late for the former. That's an option when foreigners aren't a significant minority. Once they've formed a competing identity, as they have, there is no going back.

I tend to agree, and to the degree that a solipsistic anecdote is probably only going to be understood if countered by another; one of my own great great grandfathers is the son of Portuguese immigrants from Madeira. His father, my great great great grandfather, moved out of the immigrant community in the Chicago area and told people that he wasn't Portuguese anymore. My great grandfather lived and died his whole life never knowing that he was an ethnic Portuguese. He married a Scots-Irish woman, and pronounced his own name wrong. His daughter, my grandmother, married a southern Borderer from Georgia. My father and my uncle are the ones who eventually figured out what was happening. Their grandmother, the Scots-Irish, refused to her grave to believe that her late husband had been Portuguese and denied it vehemently. Both my dad, his brother and his two sisters married good old-fashioned Anglo-Americans with impeccable colonial English ancestry. As, for that matter, have I and my brothers.

There is a process wherein you can graft a foreign element into the host, but it requires 1) giving up your prior identity completely, 2) being here in small enough numbers that your group gets absorbed into the host rather than the other way around, and 3) it still takes generations to accomplish. The fact that I have a thin strain of Portuguese ancestry alongside my otherwise overwhelming white, English ancestry is only a conversation piece, as it contributes nothing whatsoever to my identity, my culture, and it isn't even significant to my genetics or physical appearance either.

This English guy and his Filipina wife and kids aren't even trying to assimilate, and they certainly don't have generations to make a go at it anymore. Tough luck, pal, but we don't care.

Blogger Michael Maier November 15, 2016 8:00 AM  

This stupidity is starting to piss me off. For over a decade I have heard libtards crowing about "breeding whitey out". We finally take them seriously at their own word and NOW the identity THEY SHOVED ON US is a problem?

No mercy for these pricks. None. Their fear may be real but it's also a ploy. We should stoke it, not placate it. The more than voluntarily leave, the better we all are.

Blogger Roger Hill November 15, 2016 8:04 AM  

"But if things continue to heat up, I would consider moving to an Chinese-dominated area. Better you take the brunt of racial discrimination than her. After all, it was your choice that put her in that situation."
Thank You, Vox.
This is an idea which I did not consider yet. There is actually a sizable Chinese community close to us. We tried to involve her in events and the language, Utilizing this community but she has pretty much rejected all that and wants to be exclusively within the white culture of her adoption. The more time goes by, the less and less she seems to have interest in her Chinese heritage. It is to the point now where all the books and videos about China are boxed up (by her) and collecting dust. She doesn't even talk about China right now. That may change.

If anything, she has immersed herself in Christianity. We are Lutheran by denomination and sent her to a Lutheran school where she has excelled beyond our expectations. She writes Christian hymns and plays classical violin. She gets straight A's with very little effort. She loves European history. It is so very strange to even explain how she is now. She even looks more Polynesian than Chinese. I was asked by someone at the grocery store whether her mother was Hawaiian. All this my help or hurt, I just don't know as yet. I do know that up till this point, she seems to thrive within white culture and with almost all white friends.

Blogger Flyover Pilgrim November 15, 2016 8:05 AM  

The man isn't American, he said it himself, right out of the gate: "I'm English." He just happens to be leeching off of Americans, he and his not-American family. Maybe his in-laws will let his family live in their house in the Philippines.

Anonymous Jordi November 15, 2016 8:07 AM  

Nice article.

It is all the most interesting as the guy is polite, probably socially competent, ... . At first glance he says things that look perfectly respectable.

Till the moment you think back and consider : at which time tdid this guy identify himself as an american ? How many NFL or baseball matches did he go to ? Does he take part in a non-ethnic social circle, such as an american church, a charity, a PTA, ... . Did he hire americans in a company he built ?

His wife's parents may be american. But him ? He's a british expat with an american passport. America first should be an opinion shared by every american (to the exception of democRAT party hacks)

I think civil war is nto the only possible outcome.

However, a very urgent measure is to abolish dual citizenship

Any american (or any other nationality FFS) should be barred from holding a foreign passport. Any naturalized american should be barred (under threat of prison and disenfranchisement) from going to his former country. And any american picking anew passport should relinquish the american one immediately.

While these may seem harsh, those are measures that were enforced when the american nation was born.

For immigrants to become americans, they need to cut the cord.

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric November 15, 2016 8:11 AM  

@63 Roger Hill: Some of the predictions that get tossed around here are pretty grim, but I think in your case that you need to take some of them with a grain of salt. Your adopted daughter may face skepticism for her physical appearance. She may not have the level of acceptance that she (or you) would like. But given what you've said about her, it's pretty unlikely that her physical safety would be at risk from white Americans.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 8:16 AM  

I would like to see this corrected over time to Diversity + Proximity + Economic Hardship = War.

No. Don't sperg over it. When rhetoric works, use it. Don't try to improve it and ruin its effectiveness thereby.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 8:17 AM  

"That is because I don't even know specifically what to ask. Perhaps I am trolling for sympathy, if I am honest with myself. I'm down right convinced I did a foolish thing years ago.. I there is no way to put back now. The cure might be far worse than the error. Still, I have no desire in my heart other than to do what is right by her now."

I know a beautiful brown skin black-haired girl who looks very indian. she also has an obvious indian (dot... not feather) name. But... she is a huge NASCAR fan. She is an absolutely redneck girl who names her dog after race tracks like Bristol or 'Dega. She drinks domestic beer from a can because "imports are gay".

In short... the girl is 'Murica as all hell. whatever community she is in, will recognize her as such.

Anonymous lurker November 15, 2016 8:21 AM  

"I'm English and I moved to the States more than 20 years ago, as a young man. I'm a naturalized citizen. I voted for Obama twice and, this time around, I voted for Clinton, but I can understand why people recoil from the worst parts of her candidacy."

GTFO!

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 8:23 AM  

VD wrote:I would like to see this corrected over time to Diversity + Proximity + Economic Hardship = War.

No. Don't sperg over it. When rhetoric works, use it. Don't try to improve it and ruin its effectiveness thereby.


You're right, as always. And, as always, this is the gayest possible universe.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 8:24 AM  

And, as always, this is the gayest possible universe.

Milo hasn't been elected Queen of Earth yet. But, at this point, I wouldn't rule it out.

Blogger Shimshon November 15, 2016 8:25 AM  

@68 Exactly, Nate. This Chinese girl will have no problem if she's that assimilated. If she marries white, which the father should also encourage, even more so. That's a great anecdote, btw. Imports are gay. Hi-freaking-larious.

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric November 15, 2016 8:28 AM  

VD wrote:And, as always, this is the gayest possible universe.

Milo hasn't been elected Queen of Earth yet. But, at this point, I wouldn't rule it out.

That doesn't happen by normal election; only by Acclamation...

Anonymous Sazerac November 15, 2016 8:30 AM  

A few points:

1st) You admit your politics aren't American and you vote for non-American politicians. Why should Americans show you respect when you disrespect them.

2nd) You are coming from the position of what America can do for you and not what you can do for America. Your politics have lead to this situation and now you whinge about it. If you cannot even look in the political mirror for America I doubt you can offer them much at all.

However in saying that, I can see a situation where a certain percentage of East Asians can remain in Western countries. They are education focused, productive and low crime etc. However they need to recognise some things and recognise them fast.

These being:
1) Recognise Western countries are white countries and become very vocal and supportive of White culture and keeping Western countries White. Become an ally of the developing White identity.

2) Become more Western, try to fit into our culture and values. Generally better than any other immigrants but a key would be becoming Christian and changing their mindset from a Shame based culture to a Guilt based culture.

3) Do not act economically clannish, dodgy or create negative economic outcomes for Whites. Unaffordable housing is a key issue in this regard. Do not try to take advantage of our welfare system for you elderly retired parents that are immigrating with you. From my interactions with East Asians that think like this, they actually boast about this thinking Whites are too stupid to realise. We are not! The vast majority of us realise what is going on, but we are to polite to raise it, though not for much longer.

4) If they are Chinese do not act like the vanguard of China. We don't need recent immigrants of Chinese background waving Chinese flags on streets and attacking their new country's political policies on various international or even sporting issues. If your loyalty is to another country you do not belong as immigrants to ours.

Basically most East Asians I know in the UK, Canada and the USA vote left and huff and puff about social justice. From my interactions, East Asian's in Australia are generally much more conservative, and once they realise the growing ire of White majority will quickly fall in line behind them. Not sure about the UK, Canada and the USA.

Blogger clk November 15, 2016 8:30 AM  

And why would someone send such an email to VD --- he has not signed up for/nor given the task of grand arbitrator of who is "us" verse "them".

@34 --- "The only thing I can see getting foreigners off the hook is a long paper trail of nationalist sentiment,probably including bashing their own people and previous culture/race while praising us as superior in one way or another, and a network of locals willing to vouch for the foreigner and put themselves at risk for him."

Always very interesting -- but who is this "us" -- what happened that allowed you to define yourself as "us" instead of "them" --- I don't remember seeing you at any of the "us" meetings :)... In all seriousness though -- whats going to the criteria for being considered a local when everyone in this country without red skin is a foreigner -- are you signing up for the job ?


@17 "Texas already has precedent on kicking out Mexico."

I think to be historically fair when talking Texas we are including historical Spanish Texas and the Spanish (and their descendants) Following the logic on the "us" are those of us of English descent and native Americans, would not the "us" in Texas actually include the Mexicans and other natives... And to be really honest.. I don't think Texas can be part of us long enough to be considered "us" --- your history is the Republic of Texas -- so I am sorry, your going to have to leave with your Mexican brothers :)







Blogger ZhukovG November 15, 2016 8:36 AM  

I think all of us know of some exceptional person, who is not American, but has nevertheless integrated sufficiently that we would not want to see them harmed in the coming troubles.

However, they are the exceptions that prove the rule. It is only because the vast majority fail to integrate these people stand out.

In the end, I think if a local community is willing to vouch for one of these exceptions, they will have little to fear.

As for our Englishmen and his Filipino Wife and kids. If they live in California they may be able to stay in California. However I doubt California will stay in the United States. He just better hope that Mexicans are more accepting of diversity than we are.

Blogger pyrrhus November 15, 2016 8:37 AM  

@50 Martin Armstrong's computer AI and economic model, which predicted both Brexit and Trump, predicts massive collapse and disintegration after the 2032 election.

Blogger rumpole5 November 15, 2016 8:37 AM  

I have been married to a Caymanian woman for almost 40 years. I've had extensive interaction with Caymanians during that time. Two points: Firstly, I would not presume to tell Caymanians how to do things, nor would I ever sign up for Caymanian status or vote in their elections. I know my place when I am there. English and Scottish solidiers and their servants founded and settled those islands with a great deal of hardship and risk, and I don't have any business telling their descendants how to run their country.
Secondly, I feel exactly the same way about the USA. My ancestors settled this country over three and a half centuries through a great deal of hardship and risk. Newcommers (anyone without deep ancestural roots here) should know their place and stay the hell out of our affairs.

Blogger Durandel Almiras November 15, 2016 8:42 AM  

Vox, these last few articles on this subject have been great! Thank you!

Vox, do you think culture accounts for anything in this whole racial mess? When my family came to the USA in 1910, America had a clearly defined culture that was developing towards cultural richness. This my fam had a culture they could adopt and assimilate into, discarding their native tongue and ways to adopt American ones.

But for the last 30 years, American culture has been desiccated and hollowed. All cultural transmission points, such as civic holidays and religious ones have been turned into exercises of hedonism and consumerism. The meaning is gone. The history unknown. The values unsung.

Is this why Balkanization is the likely outcome? Because with no great culture to unite us, we can't magically create a high culture in the middle of the multicultural mess. Is this a factor that should be considered or is culture too abstract to be useful in this conversation?

Blogger Cail Corishev November 15, 2016 8:43 AM  

Short version: "Since moving to your nation, I've voted to destroy it at every opportunity. Why don't you like me?"

Consider the fact that the thing they're dreading, the hate crime they fear so much that they might leave the US to avoid it -- though it hasn't happened and may never happen -- is the possibility that someone might say something rude to them. Not being fired, lynched, or driven out of their neighborhood with pitchforks, but unpleasant words. The horror!

Considerations of race aside, America wasn't built by people this easily frightened, was it?

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton November 15, 2016 8:45 AM  

@75 clk
"who is this "us"...... whats going to the criteria for being considered a local when everyone in this country without red skin is a foreigner "

which "us" are you talking about? we're talking about Americans and white people here for the most part. Whether anyone likes it or not, American Indians have probably the least influence on American politics, which is why as I mentioned to Vox on Gab, everyone can basically tell others what the "native" stance is without as much as asking a single native.

Americans defined the relationship between ourselves and the Indians.We didn't need to provide any Rez's or even let them survive. I for one am fascinated to see Dot Indians, Arabs, Chinese and everyone else now talking about the rights of native americans especially since I can safely assume that if any of these non americans take power, they'll be significantly less accommodating and more brutal and anti-native than my ancestors were, especially when they want natural resources from sovereign Indian land.

Blogger Durandel Almiras November 15, 2016 8:50 AM  

@Cail - It would seem that years of peace has the tendency to diminish both the spirit and perspective of those who live in it. Our ancestors and predecessors were made of stronger stuff.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 8:53 AM  

"I think all of us know of some exceptional person, who is not American, but has nevertheless integrated sufficiently that we would not want to see them harmed in the coming troubles."

Right.

What is getting swept under the rug here is a very important distinction... The left lie that virtually everyone believes is "You to the tribe you claim."

That is wrong. The Truth is, "You belong to the tribe who claims you."

So... Skin color is your uniform is a broad rule but it is a macro rule to which there will always be micro-community based exceptions.

if you are not obviously American and you are worried about it... start being more obviously American so that Americans will claim you when it matters.

Anonymous JC NRA November 15, 2016 8:54 AM  

@42 VD wrote: "If my family and I were unwanted, I would not hesitate to leave. But we have gone all-in on integration and that is obviously respected in these parts."

But where would you go? You may be an American CITIZEN, but you and your children are not of the American Nation.

My immediate family shares this concern, since I'm not of pure English descent (Irish contamination of blood-line), and wife and kids have mixed backgrounds (although citizens for many generations).

I presume the key is your comment about going all-in on integration, but is there anything more to it? Is that simply the best we can do?

Blogger Cail Corishev November 15, 2016 8:55 AM  

The man's wife and her parents should consider going home. Because it is home. They even have a home there.

Most Americans still hold the old myth of immigrants as being off the boat and fully dependent on their new home, but that's not true anymore. Many of them are well-off in their home nations, and use America as a place to make money and connections, while spending their wealth and emotional capital back home. They're like suburbanites who drive into the city for work, but spend their time and money in the suburbs -- how much do they really care about the city? If someone proposes a law to tax the city to build stuff in the suburbs, for instance, won't they vote for it?

Even many so-called refugees travel back home now and then, putting the lie to the notion that they "fled."

The wave of immigration that brought my German forebears may not have been as wonderful as the myth, but at least once they were here they were here. They didn't go on welfare and then send their paychecks back to Germany to build summer homes.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 15, 2016 8:57 AM  

Ben Sanderson wrote:whites are located in the north, blacks in the southeast and hispanics in the southwest. we have. no. choice.

The blacks belong up north. You people are the ones who freed them. You people are the ones who destroyed the legal protections Southern whites had put in place to keep the blacks semi civilized. You wanted them, you should have them.

Anonymous Oye November 15, 2016 8:57 AM  

"More importantly, there is precisely one American expat within 30 minutes of us, who is unlikely to be here long."

He must be benevolent.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 9:01 AM  

"The blacks belong up north. You people are the ones who freed them. You people are the ones who destroyed the legal protections Southern whites had put in place to keep the blacks semi civilized. You wanted them, you should have them"

meh. The South has always had blacks and always will. You're correct though about the source of the problem. Yankees meddling. That said... the only reason there is a problem is the continued stoking of the fire. As soon as its stopped... it will start improving. A decade later things will be so much better it will be hard to believe it got this bad.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 9:05 AM  

I feel the obligation to point out that anyone attempting to drive my wife out of the states is going to die. If there's time, the deaths will be slow, agonizing, and degrading. If not, I'll just shoot the motherfuckers. But die they will.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 9:05 AM  

"I presume the key is your comment about going all-in on integration, but is there anything more to it? Is that simply the best we can do?"

yes.

Pick a nice rural small town and move there. Move to one of the less populated places. Everyone in a small town will know you and your family. They will claim you.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 9:05 AM  

I feel the obligation to point out that anyone attempting to drive my wife out of the states is going to die. If there's time, the deaths will be slow, agonizing, and degrading. If not, I'll just shoot the motherfuckers. But die they will.

Blogger The Deuce November 15, 2016 9:06 AM  

I'm not being egotistical but I think we have so much to offer America.

No, you are being egotistical, and the only thing you've actually offered America so far is three votes to enslave us all to a godless global elite and deprive us of our fundamental rights, which are enshrined in our nation's foundational documents and history, neither of which you give a fig about. I figured you were going to say you voted for Trump even if you didn't, in order to try to "prove" Vox wrong, but no. That it didn't even occur to you that YOU are the one who is obligated to try and make your HOST feel comfortable and not the other way around just illustrates precisely the problem that the alt-right is pointing out. By all means, please go.

Blogger Alexander November 15, 2016 9:07 AM  

Regardless, to me, as a European liberal, she was going to protect things that believe in.

Ladies and Gentleman, we have found that elusive proposition! It turns out that what it means to be a true American is to be a European liberal!

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 9:08 AM  

"I feel the obligation to point out that anyone attempting to drive my wife out of the states is going to die."

I wouldn't worry to much about the bluster Krat. The Alt-Right gets itself pretty wound up when talking about what is going to happen in the future.

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton November 15, 2016 9:09 AM  

@Nate "So... Skin color is your uniform is a broad rule but it is a macro rule to which there will always be micro-community based exceptions."

Not sure why, but this made me think of Savitri Devi. She somehow straddled the lines of race,religion and ideology very well. An English woman, married to a Bengali, and both were Nazis. Cool chick. Would give her citizenshib.

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton November 15, 2016 9:10 AM  

@91 they'll all die ey? Are you Rambo? How many can you fight off alone?

Blogger Cecil Henry November 15, 2016 9:11 AM  

Whites are allowed to think of ourselves only as human beings with generic human interests that by definition cannot conflict with those of other human beings.

We can benefit as a group only by benefiting all humanity.



The West including America is a culture created by a specific people and it will be destroyed if that people is dispossessed.
Europeans everywhere have the self-evident right to secure their homelands for themselves, without regard to the claims others make upon it:


1.White people exist.

2. White people have the RIGHT to exist.

3. White people have the RIGHT to exist AS White people in White Communities and Nations.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 9:12 AM  

Just doing my Christian duty, Nate, by pointing out there are some serious potential consequences to certain actions.

Blogger 1100 November 15, 2016 9:14 AM  

How much can we get done within the legal framework of the USA? It seems like we can keep much broader support for the clean up effort until we ignore the laws. Of course a lot of laws have been distorted by "progressive" judges and politicians with the media's help.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 15, 2016 9:14 AM  

Either one identifies with us fully, or we identify them as Other.

The problem is, if things get ugly, no one's going to ask his kids with whom they identify, any more than vibrants who beat up a Trump voter will ask him whether he voted on racist or economic concerns. When BLM shoots a few cops, they don't ask first whether the cops identify as killers of blacks. Their uniform is their uniform, and in racial strife, your skin -- not your identification -- is your uniform.

As Vox said, realistically Trump isn't going to kick all non-Americans out of the US. Considering all the forces lined up against him, it'll be amazing if he can get rid of the bulk of the illegals. That he would get started dis-inviting legal immigrants is probably too much to hope for, and citizens like this man's wife have no reason to fear deportation. But the legal questions don't matter in a race war. If other ethnic groups, especially whites, start acting like BLM, she's in just as much danger as an illegal who looks like her.

Heck, considering their "Audis and there Mercedes and their Porsches," maybe more danger. It's probably not good to brag about all the wealth you've gathered in your host country, especially displaying it with foreign cars most of your hosts can't afford.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 9:16 AM  

Fair number. And I have friends. And I would not hesitate for a microsecond to go after the families of anyone who goes after mine.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 15, 2016 9:17 AM  

@23 Exactly. The clown self-identifies as English, then VOTES in a US election? And these assholes are shocked, shocked that we are enraged to apoplexy over them opening their %#@& mouths and trying to influence conditions under which WE live?! If this was a lifeboat this clown and his family would already be treading water.

@24 Once the proportion of aliens rises above the threshold were "when in Rome, do as the Romans" no longer feels necessary, the die is cast.

The USA could remains mostly Western until (using the figure you've posited) the four- or five-generations-deep immigrant load passed that threshold percentage, a figure I imagine is less than 10%.

The USA never stayed below that figure since the late 1800's. The coup-de-tat of 1965 was a direct result of Irish, Italian and to a degree German/Scandinavian immigrants and their 2nd and 3rd generations shifting the demographics of the USA. The camel's nose, and all....

There is no turning back. I concur that Trump cannot roll back the tide, and that at best conditions simply hold near current until evidence of the over-consumption of the last 35 years becomes inescapable.

I recently noted that the USA is one good pandemic away from solving its political problem, given that most "blue" voters live in coastal cities. I amend that, to suggest that simply turning off the EBT system and LINK cards for two months would accomplish the same outcome. Given the metaphor of most White Rabbits existing in zootopias of exotic diversity, it would be like simply removing the bars from the cages of the predators they use to signal their virtues. I'm reminded of the fate of "Grizzly Man" and his girlfriend.

When the bond market blows up enough, this will happen anyway. It's like a time bomb ticking down, but we can't be certain how much time is left.

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton November 15, 2016 9:18 AM  

@Tom Kratman I'd wait to see the battlefield before I decided how I'd fight on it. Not having any clue if,when or how any of this might play out, it seems to decide at this stage to "go out blasting!!!!" might not be the most wise choice.
But that's just me.

Blogger Robert What? November 15, 2016 9:19 AM  

Why would the Englishman be concerned about "the rise of Islamic fundamentalism" here and in England but reject the obvious American concerns about the invasion by people like him and his wife? Don't Muslims have the same right to invade other countries and settle in them en masse that Englishmen and Filippinos do

Vox, you don't see any difference between this mixed English/Filipino family who support America and want to integrate into it, versus Islamic invaders who want to replace the American culture with their own? Do you experience Italians telling you to go home?

Blogger ZhukovG November 15, 2016 9:22 AM  

@Tom Kratman, I don't think it will get that bad. However, it might. As an Army Officer, I am sure you understand the value of a timely Retrograde. If things go pear shaped, parts of Virginia are likely to be even more dangerous than in the 1860s.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 9:27 AM  

Vox, do you think culture accounts for anything in this whole racial mess?

No. This pattern has evolved in every multiracial society. The only difference culture has made here is that Whites permitted it to get far worse than Asians or Blacks ever would have.

Fair number. And I have friends. And I would not hesitate for a microsecond to go after the families of anyone who goes after mine.

It's all a numbers game, Tom. You know that better than anyone. But if your wife isn't out agitating for more invasion and more Hispanics, I very much doubt anyone will care.

Again, and I can't stress this enough, your opinion, my opinion, and everyone else's opinion are all totally irrelevant. Trump's too, for that matter. The great waves of history and social mood are going to sweep over all of us regardless. Position yourselves accordingly.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 15, 2016 9:30 AM  

Nate is right; a small, rural town where everyone knows each other is the best place to be if you're different (and for other reasons anyway). However, the other side of that is that they need time to get to know you and fully accept you as one of them. The time to move to such a place and start settling in is now, not after your apartment complex gets burned down.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 9:31 AM  

"Just doing my Christian duty, Nate, by pointing out there are some serious potential consequences to certain actions."

Noted.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 9:32 AM  

Vox, you don't see any difference between this mixed English/Filipino family who support America and want to integrate into it, versus Islamic invaders who want to replace the American culture with their own? Do you experience Italians telling you to go home?

First, they don't support America nor do they want to integrate into it. They want a different culture than their fellow Islamic invaders, but they don't want American culture either.

In 20 years, I have never had a single Italian tell me to go home, not even when they are complaining about African and Muslim immigration.

What part of QUANTITY do you people have a hard time understanding? If the USA had 6.5 million immigrants instead of 65 million, it wouldn't even occur to any of us to be having this discussion.

Italy has a very, very small number of American immigrants. Furthermore, a lot of Italians have relatives in America. In general, they're mostly puzzled, and a little flattered, that we prefer it here.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 9:32 AM  

It's not a question of wisdom - it may be very unwise, indeed - it's a question of principle. The principle is that if my wife is harmed, if she is even insulted, people are going to get hurt or, if I can make it happen, die, as many as I can make happen before I die. People, in this case, is defined down to, "baby sucking at the tit of the wife of the man who attacks mine." Though civilized, in ordinary circumstances, I have no real sense of restraint. That whole "fight or flight" mechanism everyone is supposed to have? Yeah...ummm...no, I have no flight mechanism. Never have had. Threatened, I attack. 70 to 1 odd? I attack. Yes, as a matter of fact I have. It's not a question of having great courage; I simply lack the flight mechanism and always have.

I am also a man of war, possibly more so than anyone you have ever met or perhaps can even conceive of. It would be profoundly stupid to push me over to the other side. I would suggest that people who would push me over to the other side are thereby demonstrating their own racial and genetic inferiority, that they are, in fact, "life unworthy or life."

Blogger The Hammer November 15, 2016 9:33 AM  

To echo @83 and @94, since the USA will breakup, prioritize by regions, then states, then counties that are 85-95% white with the remaining 5% having a good amount of the particular ethnicity you or your family is.

You'll have a much better chance of toleration than living in some Southwestern city or town where the breakdown is 40-30-30.

There is also the historical taboo against race-mixing to consider, in certain parts of the country. In some places it has been reduced but is still likely to reassert itself after economic collapse and the ethnic competition really gets going. Nate might be able to speak better to that phenomena.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 15, 2016 9:35 AM  

@101 And I would not hesitate for a microsecond to go after the families of anyone who goes after mine.

A perfect encapsulation of why thinking people abhor what the Left has done in sowing the seeds of the coming conflagration.

When this thing blows, there is nowhere to stop until it becomes just the most recent illustration of total war. Sherman's letters to his wife indicated his desire to put every man, woman and child to the sword.

My template for what's coming remains a combination of the English Civil War (a house-by-house, neighbor-by-neighbor sword-fight over which political faction would rule) and Rwanda's Tutsi-Hutu pogrom. The main questions to me are: 1) what factions will rule what geographies and 2) how quickly will the urge to create order rise to the level where the pogrom includes women and children. Reprisals don't come from lines wiped out entirely, and once this becomes the dominant ethos....

I love these current comfortable times, even with all the social rot and corruption. What's coming scares the crap out of me because I fear for my family no matter how well I (and they) prepare.

Blogger wreckage November 15, 2016 9:36 AM  

Small communities protect their own. Just make sure that you're their own.

Blogger tz November 15, 2016 9:38 AM  

@90 exactly, since they are usually 95%+ white, and integrate means ingratiate. Don't push it, but find the bar and start talking. Attend the local high school football games. Immerse yourself.

This Englishman (and I hope he reads and replies) is NOT American and is trying to destroy America with his smug liberal superiority. Much to give? He is on the side of the Takers, as are his in-laws. His children will be told they don't belong because they won't fit in. Crooked Hillary Secularism isn't American.

Dear citizen aliens: you don't get to choose when Americans consider you assimilated, and the more you protest and resist, the more you prove you aren't and maybe never will be.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 9:39 AM  

That was directed to Deadmau5.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster November 15, 2016 9:44 AM  

"The only issue I would take with this post is that its a bit off to call legal immigration invasion."

I grew up in a working-class area in a small English town. It was a community of English people who all knew each other and looked out for each other. Thanks to legal immigration from the EU, it's now Polandtown, most of the houses are rented out as shared accommodation to half a dozen Poles, and the locals can't afford to live there, if they want a house of their own as everyone used to, rather than to spend their life sharing a room with a Pole.

So, yes, legal immigration does become invasion, when the numbers rise high enough. The English working class have been ethnically cleansed from that area, and replaced by the Polish invasion. Poles may be better than Syrian 'refugees', but that part of England is no longer English, either way.

Back on the Englishman in America front, the biggest post-election freakout I saw among my Facebook friends was from an English guy who's been living in California for twenty years. When he moved, he was fairly sane, if a bit liberal. Now he's sunk to the point where he's posting about his cisgendered male privilege, and volunteered for the Clinton campaign.

You really, really need to close the doors to English immigrants. Those you're getting today are not the kind who created America, or even the kind you were getting fifty years ago, when the 'best and brightest' were fleeing Labour's socialist hell-hole. You can't afford to allow in more than a well-vetted handful who'll actually assimilate.

Blogger James Dixon November 15, 2016 9:55 AM  

> But here's my problem: how do we become unified as a country if some groups have been singled out to be treated differently?

We're not going to become a unified country. That ship has sailed. And the Alt-Right didn't start the process of singling some groups out to be treated differently. That's been the law of the land for over 40 years now.

> So I'm wondering, does the alt-right have any reservations at all about framing the discussion in this way.

Again, we weren't the ones who started framing the discussion this way. We're merely joining in.

> Isn't diversity good?

No, it isn't.

> Right now, we're wondering if we should take our American kids and try to get jobs in my native England instead.

Probably, but you're only delaying the problem by 10 years or so at most. England's turn is coming, as demonstrated by Brexit.

> I'm not being egotistical but I think we have so much to offer America.

OK, if you insist: Yes, you are; and no, you don't.

> ...if Trump's candidacy ignites a race war, would you be happy, or sad, or indifferent?

Trump's candidacy is the last attempt to prevent such a war. The fact that you can't see that merely illustrates that you don't in fact have anything to offer America.

Blogger The Other Robot November 15, 2016 10:00 AM  

Google and Facebook worry about fake news sites:

The shifts comes as Google, Facebook and Twitter Inc (TWTR.N) face a backlash over the role they played in the U.S. presidential election by allowing the spread of false and often malicious information that might have swayed voters toward Republican candidate Donald Trump.

Anonymous Eric the Red November 15, 2016 10:01 AM  

Damn it, enough quantity can drive out (a) quality. There is a tipping point, and the whole mess ain't linear either.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 10:02 AM  

Google and Facebook are fake news sites.

Anonymous Eric the Red November 15, 2016 10:04 AM  

I really don't understand why 90% of my posts get deleted.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 10:08 AM  

I really don't understand why 90% of my posts get deleted.

Because you responded to trolls too many times. Now you usually get spammed. I have repeatedly warned you guys not to touch the poop. That's exactly what happens.

Blogger Phat Repat November 15, 2016 10:12 AM  

This is the one area that vexes me the most about the alt-right. I have a hard time looking at a white man's family members any differently than the man himself UNLESS I am aware that his views are counter to the good of the nation; as is obvious from this unabashed Englishman (who, as VD rightly suggests, can never be American). If the man, an American, were a Cuck or a SJW or a male dominated by his wife (a different Cuck), I wouldn't associate with him either no matter the hue of his wife.

Further, I can't, and won't fault a man for seeking a bride abroad, especially from Asian countries. Yes, they won't be Americans per se, but they are extremely dedicated and devoted to their family and, for the right man, obedient to their husband. When looking at the pool of American women, the obese entitled wildebeests roaming the streets of the US, the only alternative is celibacy (non-starter) or the life of game (putting your wives/girlfriends at risk; not desirable).

Looking at the stock of white males today, I suggest the alt-right be careful not to alienate those that might assist them the most. And yes, I'm sure some might respond with We.Don't.Give.A.Fuck; well, from this white man's perspective, I suggest you do. To win this war will take all those willing to stand on the right side, to have skin in the game, and any affront to those with the tools and means to move the alt-right towards the end goal of what our Forefathers had envisioned will be delayed at best and derailed at worst. There is no foregone conclusion in this battle and we must win, as such, choose your battles wisely.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 10:15 AM  

"So, yes, legal immigration does become invasion, when the numbers rise high enough."

its colonization. Voluntary colonization I would add. invasion has a connotation of force. its like me putting out a sign that says, "Party here! ALL WELCOME!" then calling it trespassing because 1000 people showed up.

I'm not saying its good. I'm not saying its not incredibly harmful. It is not good. It is incredibly harmful. I'm just saying invasion is the wrong word, and unless laws are being broken, its even bad rhetoric.

Invasion works with America's situation because we know they are just pouring over the border. That is invasion on both a rhetorical and dialectal level.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 10:16 AM  

Vox:

"The great waves of history and social mood are going to sweep over all of us regardless. Position yourselves accordingly."

Very likely. This doesn't change that, should it adversely affect my wife I'm going to kill the people responsible until I am killed. Her I'd send to her family; for safety, yes, but more to free myself to kill the people who drove her out, along with their families. My highest and best use, in that circumstances, would be to teach and direct others to kill, and I will, but I will kill, too.

There, are, you know, quite a few of us with foreign-born citizen wives for whom we would gladly kill.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 10:21 AM  

"There, are, you know, quite a few of us with foreign-born citizen wives for whom we would gladly kill."

it is not going to come to that. Vox has a lot of this right, but he misses the key point... which is.. you belong to whatever tribe claims you.

I have no doubt that the local community you are in will claim you and your wife Tom. So its silly. Because these folks here jabbering about this are not part of your local community... and thus their opinions are irrelevant.

Anonymous MendoScot November 15, 2016 10:22 AM  

I lived in the US for 8 years. This wanker illustrates why I refused to socialize with Brit ex-pats. They were all a bunch of whingers, constantly talking about how much better the UK was than the US and why didn't these ignorant yanks start doing things the British way.

Slack jawed weasels.

Anonymous Longtime Lurker November 15, 2016 10:22 AM  

@85: "Many of them are well-off in their home nations, and use America as a place to make money and connections, while spending their wealth and emotional capital back home."

Here's a recent example: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-14/world-s-biggest-real-estate-binge-is-coming-to-a-city-near-you

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 10:31 AM  

It's always been a sub-thread to this line of argument, Nate, that the alt-white folks don't understand the wisdom of not making enemies you don't have to, nor the foolishness of driving away people you will need. It's not merely militarily foolish, it seems to derive also from a notion of something that doesn't exist; that there is a purely English-derived population - again, one that remains pure - and exists in sufficient numbers for self defense or reconquest, and is somehow not the same WASPs who have wrecked or overseen the wrecking of the country. Forget it; there is no ship that had sailed further away than that one.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster November 15, 2016 10:32 AM  

"Voluntary colonization I would add."

No, it's not. If you'd asked the people who lived in that area thirty years ago whether they wanted to be colonized by Poles, they'd have said 'sorry old chap, but I'd really rather not'.

There's nothing voluntary about it. That's why the English working class overwhelmingly voted against mass immigration from the EU the first time they were allowed to. It's an invasion imposed on them by the globalists, to bring in foreigners to out-vote the English.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 15, 2016 10:37 AM  

America neither wants nor needs what the Englishman is offering. Tens of millions of Americans would probably like to deport him on the basis of him being a foreigner who voted for Obama and Clinton alone.

Snort. I would. Get 'em out.

He and his children would have even more to offer the less-developed Philippines, but the truth is that he doesn't give a damn about Americans, what they want, or what they need, he's merely intent on living wherever he thinks it would be most beneficial to his family.

Good point. One would think that being married to a citizen of a less-developed country would enable him to get a job in his wife's country much more easily. And being white, he and his offspring are even more likely to be a member of the country's petty bourgeoisie and have it made.

Also, English is an official language of the Philippines.

Lastly, I notice he has boys. Because of their racial makeup and the NOWAG problem, it'll be considerably easier for them to find wives in the Philippines than here.

If this fellow had married and had a family with a white American girl, this wouldn't even be an issue. But for whatever reason, foreigners living in the U.S. seem to marry each other relatively more than they marry Americans.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 10:38 AM  

" Forget it; there is no ship that had sailed further away than that one. "

Amen. And you're correct... the Alt-Right keeps talking about a white nation but it has never been a white nation. What is america today was settled by everything from spaniards to frenchmen and was inhabited by redskinned indians before that. Blacks have been in america longer than Kentucky has been a state. All of this is built on the shifting sands of false assumptions.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 10:39 AM  

Tom Kratman wrote:It's always been a sub-thread to this line of argument, Nate, that the alt-white folks don't understand the wisdom of not making enemies you don't have to, nor the foolishness of driving away people you will need. It's not merely militarily foolish, it seems to derive also from a notion of something that doesn't exist; that there is a purely English-derived population - again, one that remains pure - and exists in sufficient numbers for self defense or reconquest, and is somehow not the same WASPs who have wrecked or overseen the wrecking of the country. Forget it; there is no ship that had sailed further away than that one.

Fascists always purity spiral. It's baked into the religion, just like expansion is baked into imperialism. There's no use in threatening an ideologue as if he were a rational actor.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 15, 2016 10:40 AM  

"There, are, you know, quite a few of us with foreign-born citizen wives for whom we would gladly kill."


@124 Tom Kratman
If the foreign-born wife is white, then the kids won't have problems being members of the white American nation.

If the foreign-born wife is nonwhite, then I'd advise moving to the wife's country, which does make accommodations for people married to their citizens and where the family can have a decent, cheap, but upper middle-class lifestyle.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch November 15, 2016 10:40 AM  

@17 The hispanics will not get Texas or Oklahoma. Texas already has precedent on kicking out Mexico."

And yet, they're everywhere down here.

@11 "What you could really ask is how do we become unified in spite of the natural human tendency to prefer one's own kind?"

A state religion based on Christianity. Universalism is a Christian concept that was co-opted by the Left in the 20th Century and turned into something odious and filled with double-standards--to the point that the Alt-Right now detests the very idea of Universalism.

"They are not American and what they want is not what native Americans want."

So, what ought non-white people want for America, and what ought they contribute?

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 15, 2016 10:43 AM  

Murdoch Murdoch did a video on this subject fairly early, "100% Pure Bavarian Phenotype".

Blogger Bodo Staron November 15, 2016 10:43 AM  

Assimilation is the only acceptable way of immigration.

Speaking of numbers, what is an acceptable number?
5% of the native population within one generation? More? Less?

OpenID ymarsakar November 15, 2016 10:45 AM  

That is what the Alt-Right is standing against. That is why the Alt-Right exists.-VD

The Alt Right exists because people wanted a coalition to counter the Leftist alliance, of which SJWs are merely the Left's trash cannonfodder not their strongest vanguard. Gather together all the bottom 25% of human trash, and you get SJWs, but the Leftist alliance has many more useful religious priests and tyrants than that, given NLP and Linguistic mind control R/D link from Chomsky. Chomsky promoted the Left's R/D into mind control via linguistics, 1984 style, and Mao even implemented their own version via Simplified Chinese.

The Alt Right only stands for white eugenics based purity for one third of the coalition. I wouldn't count yourself the primary philosophical leader of the coalition just yet, VD. Eugenics has been mainly a Leftist phenomenon in the US, via Margaret Sanger and the Democrat slave lord plantations that had better eugenics than Sanger even before she was born. The Warhammer propaganda posters line up well with Purity, your propaganda theme VD, but it is only consistent with eugenics based Christian Nationalism. That's going to be a harder sell to the other Alt Right factions.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 10:47 AM  

@47: "Reminds me of the Partition of India into what is now Pakistan and India."

That is what I have been predicting for the breakup of the US. There will be no recapitulation of the north-south war. People will go to bed one night in the US and wake up the next morning in Yankeeland or Dixie, and that will be that. The individual states will remain intact as they are.

The violence will be a recapitulation of the division of India.

This time around the proper wars will be in the west, as the states are too divided internally already. NoCal-SoCal are two different nations. Portlandia-East of the Cascades are two different nations.

There will be war and the state lines will not survive intact.

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric November 15, 2016 10:54 AM  

Tom Kratman wrote:There, are, you know, quite a few of us with foreign-born citizen wives for whom we would gladly kill.
Including the God Emperor. Let's not counter one purity spiral with another.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 15, 2016 10:56 AM  

"it seems to derive also from a notion of something that doesn't exist; that there is a purely English-derived population - again, one that remains pure - and exists in sufficient numbers for self defense or reconquest, and is somehow not the same WASPs who have wrecked or overseen the wrecking of the country. Forget it; there is no ship that had sailed further away than that one."

It is called the Ohio and Tennessee River Valleys. From Southern Ohio and Indiana down to Northern Georgia, Northern Alabama and Northern Mississippi. You know, the only group of people who still identify themselves as Americans on the Census forms. An area that could exercise control of 3 of the most important rivers in the US.

OpenID paworldandtimes November 15, 2016 11:01 AM  

Everyone "purity spirals" because ideological conflicts have an identitarian substrate, however identity is defined or under whichever proxies its interests are asserted. This is why:

- SJWs police their own speech so hard among their own and turn on one of their own so viciously over an impure thought.

- Blacks view fellow blacks who had a father with suspicion; race agitators have their own "reverse" racial hierarchy

-The Khmer Rouge sent their countrymen to camps for wearing eyeglasses.

- Bolsheviks included stamp collectors high on their list of enemies of the revolution.

PA

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 11:06 AM  

7634:

The kids are white but she's a 3/4 Euro shading cinnamon. Makes not a whit of difference to me; if she is driven out or hurt I try my damnedest to set the world record for mass murder.

OpenID ymarsakar November 15, 2016 11:06 AM  

@125
it is not going to come to that. Vox has a lot of this right, but he misses the key point... which is.. you belong to whatever tribe claims you.

I have no doubt that the local community you are in will claim you and your wife Tom. So its silly. Because these folks here jabbering about this are not part of your local community... and thus their opinions are irrelevant.
-nate

Those are good points, but I would point out that South Carolina had BLM paid rioters and gang bangers come in to start things up. Same for Ferguson, Baltimore, etc. Although some riots are purely local, due to some guy raising the Rage meter (Sharpton anyone).

VoxDay could be the ultimate propaganda mob reinforcer, since he would be starting up kill squads from as far away as another continent. I think Vd underestimates the importance of propaganda to the Alt Right, without it they wouldn't have been able to link Alt Right to Trum via twitter or any other such coalition would be dead before it was born. He calls it his opinions and his faceless minions just do whatever they want, but given human nature, that's not quite true. Many people need permission to act, even in self defense. People are born to slave under somebody's leadership and chains.

So true that VD isn't part of Tom Kratman's community, but if VD's eugenics based Christian Nationalism takes off, he doesn't need to be. Since the death squads will gladly be created domestically and then move into Tom Kratman's community or convert/recruit from it. An American Death squad should be a sight to see, as they would be many times more effective than Iraqi ones or AQ or Vietcong.

The Scots Irish tribes of the Southern states that seceeded, weren't going up north to kill abolitionist speakers in 1830. No, the killers just wanted the bounty or were doing so due to ideology. That eventually leads to a race war, so to speak, or a civil war.

Southern slave lords thought the North were too weak to fight, since the abolitionists tied in a noose pretty easily. Sometimes reality is not what the propaganda masters want it to be. They end up waking people like Sherman, who isn't quite as pacific as the abolitionists. Or extremists like anti slavers who raid Harper's Ferry for arms.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 11:07 AM  

Aeoli:

I'm not "threatening" anyone. I am promising that if mine are fucked with the price will be very high and I will neither aim nor try to spare innocence.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 11:14 AM  

@131 Nate: " Blacks have been in america longer than Kentucky has been a state."

Hawaii was once a foreign nation, populated by a people utterly foreign, both culturally and racially, to the United States.

Now it is a state, and there are millions of us who remember when it wasn't.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 11:15 AM  

There would be more than one faction with death squads, YM.

Blogger Nate November 15, 2016 11:15 AM  

"
The Scots Irish tribes of the Southern states that seceeded, weren't going up north to kill abolitionist speakers in 1830. No, the killers just wanted the bounty or were doing so due to ideology. That eventually leads to a race war, so to speak, or a civil war. "

/facepalm

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 11:17 AM  

"An area that could exercise control of 3 of the most important rivers in the US."

Not if they're not populous enough to defend it. Not if they haven't sufficient of the other needs of defense. Not if everyone else decides they must go under.

Anonymous BigGayKoranBurner November 15, 2016 11:18 AM  

My wife was born here in the States, but her family is Filipino. Both her parents are doctors who came to the States in the 1970s. They have lived the American dream. They worked like cats basically creating a social security disability factory for brown people, that they got a cut of the action from (((better call Saul))). They say fuck those stupid white Americans if they are not smart enough to cheat the system as well.

Much more likely scenario than what the OP wrote.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 15, 2016 11:20 AM  

I really doubt we will be the ones going under there, Krautman. Head on back up to Boston where you belong.

Blogger Nick S November 15, 2016 11:22 AM  

The Englishman and his family clearly expect to be accepted as naturally belonging. People that come here seeking to be included as a part of Americana and fully expecting to belong are likely collectivists. Those seeking freedom from government are likely averse to it.

I just listened to Obama defending the superior nature of centralization and collectivism. He didn't use those terms, but that's what it boiled down to. He understands completely that areas with high population densities will necessarily be inhabited by a higher percentage of people that are more inclined toward collectivism and that is why they tend to agree with him. Every Democratic policy is attractive to collectivists by design. Rural Americans, in fly-over country, are naturally more inclined toward decentralization and individualism and the collectivists hate us because they can't relate to us.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 11:22 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger TM Lutas November 15, 2016 11:24 AM  

I respect the alt-right when it shows a fidelity to the truth. I shake my head and dismiss it when it goes off into fantasyland no more connected to reality than the lowest of SJW idiots on a bad day.

I live in the US, gained citizenship after a decade here at age 12. I am currently running a solo startup specifically designed to reduce the dead weight loss of idiot politics in the US, which, if successful, I hope would demonstrate my bonafide desire to improve America in the best way I know how. My political instincts are minarchist and I find the GOP to be the least bad option most of the time but think we can do an awful lot better.

To those of you who dismiss me as a foreigner incapable of becoming an american. Screw you, you don't get to control my choices as I am a free man, made so by this country I choose to call home. I choose to love this land with all my heart and will do so to my dying day. Were I to return home to the land of my birth (forced or not), I would forever bear the label "the american". They know one when they see one even if some here seem to be confused on the point.

My father made the choice to stand against communism and chose to be an American. I do too. You cannot take that away from me. If you try, we will fight.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 11:25 AM  

You have no idea how to do any of that, dumb ass. You haven't a private's sense of how to wage a war, let alone a war of extermination. You're just a posturing ape and, one suspects, a coward.

Anonymous Jack Amok November 15, 2016 11:26 AM  

But it wasn't the englishman or his bride that caused this... it was the very real invasion of mexicans that pushed it so far over the line. And I agree... once the tipping point is reached... what sort of out-sider you are won't matter much. You're just going to be seen as an outsider.


At this point, most Whites are primarily concerned about three types of immavasionists - Mexicans, Moslems, and Blacks. Nobody wants them living in their neighborhood. Deport the Mexicans and Moslems and stop Section-8ing and EEOC-ing Blacks into everyone's kitchen and the odds are we can avoid a race war.

Well, assuming we dump the H1B program and Free Trade, othewise Hindus and Chinese - and probably (((Fellow Whites))) too - will be at risk.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 11:26 AM  

That was directed at Mallory, the dipshit.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 11:28 AM  

@153: ". . . we will fight."

Q.E.D.

Anonymous BGKB November 15, 2016 11:32 AM  

I can see why someone in Virginia, or Pennsylvania, or Florida, or wherever, is upset that illegal immigrants have taken their jobs.

I attended a showing of a ((("Documentary"))) movie Shenandoah about an illegal alien killed in a small town in one of those states. At the end of the movie there was a question/answer session. I asked " You seem to be blaming this all on football(((actually blaming it on white people))), I get your point that football players commit a lot of crime as every starting line up in the NFL could fit in this theater, & commit multiple felonies a week. But when Lou Dobbs covered this story he mentioned that an illegal alien had just raped a 13yo white girl in the town. Why didn't you cover that?" The filmmaker said it had nothing to do with the killing. So I said "if I had tattoos on my face that said MS-13 gang bangers and the only other people you meet with such tattoos gang banged you would that bias you against me"

Blogger TM Lutas November 15, 2016 11:34 AM  

kfg wrote:@153: ". . . we will fight."

Q.E.D.


Don't try to hurt me and mine and we'll get along just fine.

Blogger tz November 15, 2016 11:36 AM  

@122 - there are many beautiful and good women here, just not in cities and universities.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 11:36 AM  

TM:

There is a reason why, when I breakdown the 10 million people who have to die or be interned to save the republic I include, along with 4 million common law felons, 5 million moonbats, "and a million wing nuts."

Blogger kmbr November 15, 2016 11:39 AM  

**Assimilation is the only acceptable way of immigration**

I agree with this.

Ultimately though, the problem lies with self hating white leftists.

My state, Arizona (probably Texas too) has long been about 30% hispanic. Largely we have co-exised here, rather peacefully and had a hidden slice of prosperity among the craziness sweeping the country. 30% is a very significant number.

Overall they had their areas, we had ours and life went on. Sometimes, families mixed. Some of the largest, most well known and affluent names are Spanish names--say, Navarette--a large property and farm owner in the area. Mexicans (mostly) were happy to have the prosperity trickle down to them.

They mostly assimilated but the culture here was a mix of the two, with obviously, the dominant (white) American culture being the one of strength.

Now, ofcourse, with our population growth--the leftists have discovered us and the entire atmosphere as changed. All those Mexicans have chips on their shoulders and their children are radicalized and taught to hate whitey.

If you got to places in Central/South America--say the DMV--there is still the "Gringo Line" which expedites your service. Ofcourse now that busy body white leftists are calling places down there home--Costa Rica for example--the natives are getting restless and agitated.

Honestly, I'd rather go back to the days when we were 30% hispanic and, largely, leftist agitator free.



Blogger Robert Buchanan November 15, 2016 11:39 AM  

In address of this mess:

[...] "she was going to protect things that believe in."

What, specifically?!

"As an empathetic person"

Nota bene: estrogen spike.

"I can see why someone in Virginia, or Pennsylvania, or Florida, or wherever, is upset that illegal immigrants have taken their jobs."

Sure. But that's not so important as "things that believe in."

"And I understand, and have been outspoken in my way, about the rise of Islamic fundamentalism here, and everywhere."

"I boldly opined to one of my coleagues, sotto voce: 'I don't want to sound racist, but those proud People of Color seem somewhat sexist!'"

"These are real threats, not imagined."

Withal, none among them can compete with the primacy of "things that believe in."

"They voted for Trump, I think."

He doesn't know?!

"And we're waiting for the moment that someone who doesn't know her walks up to her in a grocery store and tells her to go home."

[...]

"I'm waiting for them to come home from school to tell me a classmate told them they're different, not American enough, not good enough. That they are what's wrong with America."

We know, sugar-pie. Thence, you'll finally find cause to stamp your little feet because you were offended. This actully weighs heavily on your mind. Rampant black crime, Muslim fundamentalism, demographic strife, entrenched corruption (for which you voted) and all their attendant depredations just aren't as important as some personal affront, be it a direct indignity or a microagression. Christ.

"Right now, we're wondering if we should take our American kids and try to get jobs in my native England instead."

Good. Fuck forthwith off to rotten Albion. Circumstances there are analogous.

"Taken to its logical conclusion: if Trump's candidacy ignites a race war"

That's not a logical conclusion.

If anything, this cretin should be deported on grounds of confirmed idiocy.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 11:40 AM  

@159: "Don't try to hurt me and mine and we'll get along just fine."

I am not your problem.

Blogger TM Lutas November 15, 2016 11:45 AM  

@164 Good, glad we settled that.

Anonymous BGKB November 15, 2016 11:46 AM  

"There, are, you know, quite a few of us with foreign-born citizen wives for whom we would gladly kill."

Ok I had to read that more than once to be sure it didn't mean they wanted to kill their wife.

Blogger The Hammer November 15, 2016 11:47 AM  

@128 and @131, yes, white nationalism here is ultimately as unworkable here as it is in Europe. Ethnic nationalism will be the way through what's to come. Woodard's "American Nations" map has been useful to me when explaining it to others

(I know his map paints with too broad a brush and there will be more nation-states than shown - might be a good for online rhetoric if an alt-right or hard right graphic designer improved on Woodward's county map with someone that has the in-depth historical and social regional knowledge. I don't have the in-depth knowledge yet but am interested in helping any that do).

In fact, Trump has already triggered a mainstream Silicon Valley figure, Shervin Pishevar into ethnic nationalism (though he doesn't realize that ideological part of it yet). He wants Calexit and to start a states' rights movement. He's open to Oregon and Washington going into it with him too.

Blogger James Dixon November 15, 2016 11:48 AM  

> I really doubt we will be the ones going under there, Krautman. Head on back up to Boston where you belong.

That for his neighbor's to decide, Chris, not you. And knowing what I do of that area, I don't think Tom or his wife will have any problems.

Anonymous Mark Auld November 15, 2016 11:49 AM  

The conflict will probably start where it rightfully should, in the cities they normally start burning their own neighborhood down.Stay in or move to the country

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric November 15, 2016 11:54 AM  

kmbr wrote:My state, Arizona (probably Texas too) has long been about 30% hispanic. Largely we have co-exised here, rather peacefully and had a hidden slice of prosperity among the craziness sweeping the country. 30% is a very significant number.
Yeah, but keep in mind that that original 30% number were here before those existed as states in the Union. Heck, in Texas, those families probably fought for Texas independence, not against it. They are really not very much like fresh across the river wetbacks, even though growing up we called them that, and they jokingly used the term themselves. When you see these immigrants from the interior of Mexico, or Central America, they don't even look like our own native Mexicans—they're tiny, very, very indio and heck; some of them are so remote that they don't even speak Spanish let alone English. Our locals hadn't spoken a word of Spanish in generations other than taco, burrito, tortilla, frijoles and fajitas.

That's the difference; we had a balance that worked well for everyone right up until the Democrats declared war on America and invited alien foot soldiers into our sovereign territory to overwhelm us. They may have spoiled it for the hispanic locals that we used to have, maybe. It depends on how hard it will be to drain the demographic swamp.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 11:58 AM  

167: "I know his map paints with too broad a brush and there will be more nation-states than shown . . ."

In some areas. In others it has too many. The Far West will not countenance The Left Coast, NoCal the same for SoCal and pretty much everybody hates Tidewater.

Whereas (with the Tidewater exception) the differences in Dixie will not matter and Dixie will be on friendly relations with Texas.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab November 15, 2016 12:00 PM  

Italy was very good to my sister twenty years ago. The only unpleasantness was from a African 'refuge'. But her husband and his family were Italian. Good people.

OpenID ymarsakar November 15, 2016 12:01 PM  

TM Lutas wrote:I respect the alt-right when it shows a fidelity to the truth. I shake my head and dismiss it when it goes off into fantasyland no more connected to reality than the lowest of SJW idiots on a bad day.


VoxDay's wing of the Alt Right (I think of it as Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin troika, mostly in jest) does not believe in the American experiment. Maybe that's because VD bailed for Italy when his Christian religion or libertarian politics failed here to get the kind of traction he wanted. Maybe that's due to the abuse of the Left or learning to fight like your enemy too much.

But the idea of the American experiment as a nation under Covenant/Contract with God, to pursue divine laws and implement them in a human nation under human laws that are consistent with divine laws, is rejected by Nationalist Christians.

Meaning, Christianity accepts any one, almost, that destroys previous allegiances and obeys Jesus of Nazareth as their Christ and Liege Lord. AD, the Lord.

Christian nationalism, so to speak, only accepts you as a Christian if you are part of the same nation. In American affairs, the white supremacist beliefs used to unite the Italians, Irish, Scots, and Germans against the blacks, can still be popular. But it runs counter to a nation that bases itself on the Christian Gospel, on being able to convert anyone to being Christian or American.

I doubt Michael Cernovich or even Milo believes in that degree of division which VoxDay has written about. Milo's a Catholic Christian and is sexually active as a homosexual to boot. Freedom should be more of a concern than what flag people live under.

The idea of a race based or European nation behind America is what the Japanese have. If your ancestors weren't here for x generations, then you aren't Japanese, and even if your ancestors were here for x, your genetics do not match so you aren't Japanese. WWII military junta Japan had a lot of "race purity", they thought themselves better than even the Germans. Given their economic miracle and construction quality, hard to say which one is better. Maybe mechas will determine once and for all.

The problem with all of this is if VoxDay is writing the truth and the war isn't about normal human power struggles, but evil, then I have to ask: "Does God continue to protect and allow a nation to survive in the Americas that does not follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ?"

If so, then it won't matter if America becomes like a European racially based nation. If not, then even if people win the war against the Left, they will still have lost, if the goal of evil is to destroy divine laws on this American continent. Strategic vs tactical thinking.

Tom Kratman wrote:There would be more than one faction with death squads, YM.

True, which is why I've oft wrote that Civil War 2 will be 1000 factions against each other. Less clean that way.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 12:07 PM  

"Civil War 2 will be 1000 factions against each other."

As will be WWIII. Not a global conflict, but a globe of conflicts.

Blogger VD November 15, 2016 12:12 PM  

VoxDay's wing of the Alt Right (I think of it as Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin troika, mostly in jest) does not believe in the American experiment.

Believe in it? I believe it existed more than two centuries ago. It failed in 1861. It's over and it's been over for more than 150 years. One difference between conservatives and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right understands the difference between an ongoing experiment and a long-defunct one. I publicly pointed out that America, as a functional concept, was dead in a column more than 12 years ago. This is hardly news.

But the idea of the American experiment as a nation under Covenant/Contract with God, to pursue divine laws and implement them in a human nation under human laws that are consistent with divine laws, is rejected by Nationalist Christians.

It's also rejected by many other Christians around the world. In fact, virtually no one believes that anymore.

Meaning, Christianity accepts any one, almost, that destroys previous allegiances and obeys Jesus of Nazareth as their Christ and Liege Lord. AD, the Lord. Christian nationalism, so to speak, only accepts you as a Christian if you are part of the same nation.

This is entirely false. Anyone, of any race, and and should become a Christian. But being a Christian does not make you American any more than it makes you Saudi, German, or Israeli.

Anonymous deplorable six pan November 15, 2016 12:13 PM  

You've mentioned this quite a number of times. Are we to assume you kill for your wife?

Anonymous Jack Amok November 15, 2016 12:13 PM  

I am promising that if mine are fucked with the price will be very high

A wise promise to make. I'm hopeful we can get out of this with a minimum of violence, but there's almost certainly to be some (already has been actually). Best to get yourself on the "fuck with them last" list. Odds are that whatever level of violence we end up with, it'll be over before people get to you.

Where I grew up, there were several Indian (feather) tribes. One lived on the coast at the mouth of a river. They were peaceful and had decided there were too many White men to fight and that they would do their best to get along peacefully in the new world. Up in the hills was another tribe, and hill people being hill people regardless of race, they were more ornery.

The hill tribe went on an extended cattle-rustling spree and eventually shot and killed a settler. The other settlers got together a militia and massacred the peaceful tribe on the coast because they were afraid of the hill tribe.

After that, the US Army rounded up all the remaining Indians and moved them onto a reservation.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 15, 2016 12:19 PM  

Now, ofcourse, with our population growth--the leftists have discovered us and the entire atmosphere as changed. All those Mexicans have chips on their shoulders and their children are radicalized and taught to hate whitey.


@162 kmbr
Interestingly enough, a post-mortem from Pew Research finds this about voting patterns by religion:

"White Catholics also supported Trump over Clinton by a wide, 23-point margin (60% to 37%), rivaling Romney’s 19-point victory among those in this group. Trump’s strong support among white Catholics propelled him to a 7-point edge among Catholics overall (52% to 45%) despite the fact that Hispanic Catholics backed Clinton over Trump by a 41-point margin (67% to 26%)." (Source)

Voting patterns between white Catholics and Hispanic Catholics (mainly Mexicans) have widened into a gaping chasm.

Recall too that it was white Catholics who were responsible for the Rust Belt states flipping to Trump.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 12:26 PM  

"...the difference between an ongoing experiment and a long-defunct one. I publicly pointed out that America, as a functional concept, was dead in a column more than 12 years ago."

Depends on which experiment you mean; there were several going on at once, at a bare minimum 13 at once. OTOH, more generally, if a tweak, albeit a rather large tweak, could fix it, then it's not really dead.

To paraphrase George Wallace: "Timocracy now, timocracy tomorrow, timocracy forever."

Blogger JohnG November 15, 2016 12:26 PM  

Looking at Marxist/Maoist insurgencies, it's almost always the same, with a political group in charge pandering and delivering favors to one group and abusing others, all the while stoking the fires of resentment. Usually there's some kind of financial collapse (and hunger) and then the guns come out. I often wonder if the Left is trying to bring this on deliberately, or if they're just too stupid to know that fire is hot...

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 12:29 PM  

"Odds are that whatever level of violence we end up with, it'll be over before people get to you."

Maybe not. Remember that I have not only ties of blood and religion, but of military comradeship with damned near every color and creed, and that the latter ties are as thick as blood. If an old comrade calls, be he ever so brown or black, I am not going to turn my back on him or his.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 12:31 PM  

"You've mentioned this quite a number of times. Are we to assume you kill for your wife?"

You may assume that I would, without hesitation or restraint.

Anonymous BGKB November 15, 2016 12:32 PM  

I expect the difference between identity politicking and race war will be one of those "I know it when I see it" things.

10-12-2013 the food stamp system went down for 8 hours.

Roger Hill: Some of the predictions that get tossed around here are pretty grim

Even our gays fled Die Verse City.

Your neighbors should interact with each other every single day. You should see and speak to at least one of your neighbors every day.

I always pictured Nate as having a 3 mile long drive way, were he could shoot his guns in any direction and not threaten neighbors property.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 12:38 PM  

" . . . there were several going on at once, at a bare minimum 13 at once."

And until WWII the Shining City on a Hill concept was pretty much limited to the northeast coast. In other places motivations tended to be far more worldly, the Scots Presbyterians who took to the hills not withstanding.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 12:50 PM  

Every state operated a little differently, or had some slightly different values and programs. And there were, as mentioned, 13 of them.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 12:59 PM  

" . . . there were, as mentioned, 13 of them."

Plus one whose values were sufficiently different that they were in open, armed conflict with two of the 13 and refused to join the Union until their status as an independent republic was recognized.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 15, 2016 1:00 PM  

Tom K. I here you. Context is almost everything. In some instance, swallowing pride to by backing away, to be able to continue provision of protection to wife is is the wiser course of action. Getting killed prematurely, then, who will protect her?

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 15, 2016 1:12 PM  

That is hear, not here.

Anonymous JustAnotherPairOfEyes November 15, 2016 1:14 PM  

When the US has severe riots, long before "race war" begins, the governors will activate their National Guard and State Defense troops and they will immediately restore order. It doesn't matter whether the State is blue or red, its troops will be very conservative. In short, a race war in the US will quickly end with conservative martial law.

The inclination for rural parts of a country to be more conservative than the urban seems to be a universal human practice. If you read the histories of civil wars in other countries it happens this way all over the world, at least in civil wars that are liberal versus conservative. There are several obvious reasons for this.

The urban regions typically have an advantage in manpower over rural but the rural regions usually have an advantage in martial inclination. And it's also common that in these sorts of wars the urban regions are cut off from rurally produced food and are subject to starvation. Google "siege of Paris" for an example. In the modern US, a civil war would see the immediate loss of electrical power and this alone would leave even medium size cities uninhabitable. A week later they'd be out of edible food. No such war would last for long.

Finally, I don't see any examples of civil wars that permanently split a country along racial lines except cases where the two (or more) races also spoke different languages. And even a temporary split, like the US or English civil wars, is only possible when the country is conveniently split by the factions. Slavery allowed the US civil war to split north/south. But the US urban and rural regions are too intimately mixed to split. (The only counterexample I can think to this was the split of the Roman Empire into east and west but that seems to have been a result of organization, that is, it was a civil war of the elites not the people. Basically the region of Roman rule was too large. The US is big too, but modern transportation makes it much smaller, in terms of transportation times, than the Roman Empire.)

So I expect that there will be no significant civil war in the US. Instead, we'll eventually get a military dictatorship. And that dictatorship will be fundamentally conservative. There may be some sort of imitation Democracy going on as that's kinda conveient. See Russia today.

I'd love to see arguments on this.

Blogger JaimeInTexas November 15, 2016 1:16 PM  

RE. Texas

Northeastern states threatened secession over the Louisiana Purchase and the annexation of Texas. Because ... the differences with the Catholic culture and the languages.

Blogger Alexander November 15, 2016 1:18 PM  

A year ago it would have been a tongue-in-cheek pipedream, but now I think there's a real chance here that we'll see President Kratman of the Timocratic Republic of Massachusetts

Anonymous BGKB November 15, 2016 1:22 PM  

I think all of us know of some exceptional person, who is not American, but has nevertheless integrated sufficiently that we would not want

We can't all claim Dinesh DSouza

The blacks belong up north. You people are the ones who freed them.

Without Vit D supplementation dark blacks can't get enough even below the snow line.

The time to move to such a place and start settling in is now, not after your apartment complex gets burned down.

The time to move there and plant some fruit/nut trees was 5 years ago.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 15, 2016 1:27 PM  

Her rather large clan in Panama, Jaime, where large is defined as 104 legitimate first cousins and God knows how many 2nds and 3rds. I believe I said I'd send her away for her safety and _then_ start killing those who drove her out.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 15, 2016 1:39 PM  

@144 Tom K

I'm not "threatening" anyone. I am promising that if mine are fucked with the price will be very high and I will neither aim nor try to spare innocence.


Dude, we got it. You don't see the other side of the coin, that's clear. Try this on for size.

Last year I met a truck driver in a restaurant. He was pretty quiet, but interesting. It came out all of a sudden that he hates Mexicans. Hates them a lot. He hates them enough that if anyone asked for volunteers to drive them across the border at bayonet point, he'd do it without question. He'd do it with the same grim determination you have.

It just so happened that I was talking to him about 2 years after his wife was killed in a traffic accident by a very drunk Mexican illegal with no insurance and no license. The drunk was arrested but somehow got out on bail and skipped town, probably the country. Nobody cared. The cops did their job, the judge did his job, the jailer did his job, nobody's fault. Btut his wife was still dead and the wetback still free, and nobody was interested in finding him. Because nobody cares about another US citizen killed by another drunken illegal. It's just part of the "illegal tax" we are all supposed to pay without even blinking.

Tom, he felt about his wife like you feel about your wife. Except his wife got killed by an illegal who was identified at the scene as a very drunk Mexican national, and the justice system just let the killer go. Sure, you can probably kill him, he's middle aged, drives a truck. But there's hundreds, thousands more like him, and they are very, very angry. Just saying.

Blogger tz November 15, 2016 1:41 PM  

@173
But the idea of the American experiment as a nation under Covenant/Contract with God, to pursue divine laws and implement them in a human nation under human laws that are consistent with divine laws, is rejected by Nationalist Christians.

To have a Christian Nation, you have to have a Nation, then stock it with Christians - and not just any Christians - South America has been Roman Catholic since Cortez and Pissaro. Is there a "covenant with God", even in Argentina where Francis came from?

What happens is you have 95% homogeneity. The 5% that are different are all but fully assimilated. But then unassimilatable relatives of the 5% come in and eventually create their own different sub-culture that rejects the "covenant". In microcosm, it happened with White Flight. The first two blacks to move in are seeking to escape the ghetto and are good neighbors. But then the gang bangers start coming in. Then the Whites move away leaving a new ghetto. What has changed is the mass of new people coming in and many becoming citizens who reject this "covenant" and imposing this neo-socialism so there is no place for Whites to fly to.

A (nonconformist) Christian Nationalist simply realizes you need A. A Nation, B. filled with (nonconformist) Christians.

Mogadishu on the Mississippi is Muslim. If they have a covenant it is with Allah, not Jesus, and their oath and law is Sharia, not the constitution.

Anyone can become a Christian, but what does that mean? There are dozens of major denominations.

Anyone can become a Catholic. That is the one diverse large world institution, but it is federalized in that Masses in the middle of Africa are very different than those in Poland or France. For that matter here in the USA no two Novus Ordos are the same (like the novus odious I tried last saturday as I was travelling).

But except for violating the commandments, the Missionaries (if they are smart) don't try to change the culture. Because you can't, at least for 95%.

Even Canada isn't the USA, and Quebec is not Ontario. French Quebec is Catholic, but they wouldn't be easy to assimilate (see Cajuns).

I pointed out that the fundamental American proposition is "Man is fallen and can't be trusted with power". That would only make the handful of Christian anarcho-libertarians Americans. Every person claiming to be an American - to convert to be an American - would wish 90% of the Federal Government be eliminated. I think maybe 30% of my neighbors would go that far (since we are remote, they would hate city life). 70% think it is too big and although they are Christian, I can't convince them to shrink a few obvious bad laws.

Christianity at least has the holy spirit helping the conversion. The covenant is wonderful, but most Christians today either specifically reject the covenant (separation of church and state or some other tripe), or think it means EBT cards and Medicare, not Natural Law. The number of preachers like Chuck Baldwin at Liberty Fellowship, Montana is very small. Few could even state the basics of Natural Law 101. Most are like Joel Olsteen or one of the other prosperity preachers, another group says we are all going to be raptured soon so doing anything with the Law doesn't matter.

You are correct that anyone has the POTENTIAL to be Christian, and even American, but they must say "Yes" to the divine and civil creed respectively. Right now over half the citizens reject the civil creed - small, dispersed, government under the natural law.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 15, 2016 1:51 PM  

Some Silicon Valley Hindu wants...
Calexit and to start a states' rights movement. He's open to Oregon and Washington going into it with him too.

LOL, if he only knew what kind of fire he is playing with. Everyone here knows that NorCal would be just fine with finally forming the state of Jefferson, but there's more. The big valley and high desert would be just fine with seceding from the coastline. San Diego might just not want to go along with the rest of SoCal. Big chunks of Oregon outside of Portlandia and Salem, for sure everything from Hood River eastward would be happy to secede from the secession. Ditto Washington east of the Cacades.

So good luck to the ignorant Indian who would wind up with a "country" consisting of parts of Puget Sound, Portlandia and some of the Willamette Valley, some of the Bay Area and pieces of L.A. That would work well.

Libtards are just children playing with fire around the Christmas tree.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 15, 2016 1:57 PM  

@170 Arizona and Texas.
Yeah, but keep in mind that that original 30% number were here before those existed as states in the Union. Heck, in Texas, those families probably fought for Texas independence, not against it.

Most of the Mexicans in Arizona are recent arrivals, or descended from recent arrivals, or descended from refugees. The Mexican Civil war drove a lot of people out of Mexico and into the US, like Los Angeles, Tucson, Phoenix, Indio etc.

That whole "the border moved over us" riff from Los Tigres del Norte is just not true, except for a handful in Arizona and California, and a larger number in New Mexico and Texas.

Anonymous kfg November 15, 2016 1:59 PM  

". . . San Diego . . . Portlandia and Salem . . ."

Push them into the sea.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 15, 2016 2:06 PM  

@191 Jaime
Northeastern states threatened secession over the Louisiana Purchase and the annexation of Texas. Because ... the differences with the Catholic culture and the languages.



In 1848 when General Scott's troops were occupying Mexico City some in Congress pushed to annex all of Mexico. Every single bit. This didn't fly because of language and religion. That was a good decision for a lot of reasons. But it was considered.

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