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Friday, November 04, 2016

Mailvox: the election and the non-problem of evil

11/4 notes a conceptual connection:
Vox, in your AMA you said you became Christian after discovering Evil exists.

This shit just about has me reading a damn Bible, which even 2 years ago I would have scoffed at.

No formal definition is necessary. You see the pattern and know.

I wonder, if all of this comes out, will many other Americans react the same way. Could there be a religious revival under Trump?
It's not impossible. I've stated in the past that one reason I left the USA was due to my momentary glimpse into the social circles of power there. I met Donald Trump in passing back in 1988, as a consequence of a brief relationship with someone who was on the outskirts of those circles. And I had an amount of other exposure to various people in positions of not-insignificant power.

I didn't, and I don't, actually KNOW anything of substance in this regard. But, as the readers here know, my intelligence tends to run towards logic and pattern recognition. And what I sensed more than saw was an intrinsic and fundamental wrongness on the part of everyone involved. It literally made me feel a pressing urge to run, not walk, away from all of it. If you consider that I was not at all bothered being around the gay Chicago industrial scene that surrounded Wax Trax! at the same time, that may put the strength of that impression of wrongness in perspective.

The reason I have come to believe Christianity is true, that Jesus Christ is the hard and narrow path out of a fallen world, that the model of good and evil described in the Bible is real, is because it, and only it, explains the behavior of various people I have met in the course of my life to my satisfaction.

And it's also why I suspect that Donald Trump, the man who once described pedophile procurer Jeffrey Epstein as "a great guy", may have experienced a similar enlightenment at some point in time. As another commenter, leukosfash, observed:

I think The Golden Don found out about those poor kids years ago and he's been plotting all this time to avenge their suffering, even if it cost him his last nickle. There is a flinty grimness in his pursuit of the White House that I noticed, even when he's smiling, but I couldn't understand it until now. He literally loathes all of those evil fuckers; which also explains his refusal to go along with the yukks at that roast thingy.

I've noticed that grimness too. And more than that, I've noticed it in his family and in his entire circle. Nothing fazes them. Nothing even causes them to blink. And nothing can disguise their obvious loathing and contempt for his opponent and everyone around her. Watch Donald Trump Jr. in particular. He looks like he's itching to personally waterboard every single member of the Clinton inner circle.

Labels: , ,

240 Comments:

1 – 200 of 240 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Tom Kratman November 04, 2016 9:03 AM  

I'll be glad to help organize the crucifixions along I-95 from Boston to Miami.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) November 04, 2016 9:06 AM  

And I had an amount of other exposure to various people in positions of not-insignificant power.

The Enron guys?

Blogger Keyser Soze November 04, 2016 9:10 AM  

Tom, I would be glad to help if you need it.
Do you foresee breaking legs? Or just letting them alone once their up?

Blogger VD November 04, 2016 9:11 AM  

The Enron guys?

If I wanted to be specific, I would have been, Josh. Have you not figured that out yet?

In answer to your question, however, no.

Blogger Nate November 04, 2016 9:14 AM  

"He looks like he's itching to personally waterboard every single member of the Clinton inner circle."

Roll Tide

Blogger Nate November 04, 2016 9:14 AM  

"I'll be glad to help organize the crucifixions along I-95 from Boston to Miami."

EAST COAST BIAS

Anonymous Bobby Farr November 04, 2016 9:14 AM  

A wide variety of opinion. Today Erick Erickson posted that Trump is a harbinger of the anti-Christ. lol

Blogger Nate November 04, 2016 9:15 AM  

i-40. Right through the middle of the country. So everyone can share.

Anonymous WinstonWebb November 04, 2016 9:16 AM  

Evil certainly exists. But, is it natural or supernatural? The latter is the part I've not been convinced of.
Regardless, evil still has to be dealt with. If not, then it runs amok - like in our current examples.

Giant Meteor '16?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2016 9:16 AM  

I will offer my services as a deputy minister of applied justice.

Anonymous Nathan November 04, 2016 9:18 AM  

I volunteer to assist with millstone ministries...

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier November 04, 2016 9:19 AM  

@1

No way, Kratman. You don't get to keep all those along the East Coast like that. Flyover Country deserves its fair share of gruesome justice. We'll just have to space them out a little more. Maybe one every mile instead of one every fifty feet.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2016 9:19 AM  

9:18 AM EDT Drudge finally has a headline Wiki: Podesta occult emails

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) November 04, 2016 9:19 AM  

Giant Meteor '16?

Is that a competing candidate to Jonah Goldberg's SMOD 2016?

Blogger Junius Stone November 04, 2016 9:20 AM  

You need a "supernatural" element to define evil. Evil needs to be an intrisic quality in the laws of the universe. Otherwise, to call something evil just means, "I don't like that."

That is why a completely natural universe is not compatible with transcendant concepts of good and evil.

We know evil when we see it. No lab will be able to quantify it, but then, we don't need a lab for that. We never have. We have known it since the beginning.

Anonymous veryfunnyminion November 04, 2016 9:20 AM  

The obvious evil is obvious, or at least I hope it still is, but unless the links between the obvious evil and the less obvious but no less minor evil I don't think that the end result changes. Paedophile sex ring is obvious to us, i.e. because of the reasons Vox gave for deciding Christianity is true.

But if you look at the Paki London sex ring, the fucking German ruling that the rape of a minor was OK cause the sandnazi didn't know better, all this immigration/refugee (legal or illegal) by people who don't see things that way is not conducive to a society where child-sex rings are viewed as evil.

While this is obvious to me and most people here, I don't get the impression that the majority of people in most any country, liberal, progressive, churchian, cuckian, libertarian, conservative, understand or can be made to understand.

Anonymous a_peraspera November 04, 2016 9:21 AM  

I hope all of the pedo stuff is false...for the sake of those children if nothing else. But if it is fake and it causes Hillary to lose, then that's great.

Because it means that someone is fighting dirty and fighting to win AGAINST the Left.

The Left always fights dirty, and they fight to win, without mercy or consideration of "fairness." The Republicans always lose because they don't do this. If someone is finally lying, cheating and fighting dirty to BEAT the Democrats? All I Can say is, it's about damned time.

Blogger Front toward enemy November 04, 2016 9:23 AM  

Heh, reminds me of liberal pundit Kirsten Power's come to Jesus moment on faux news. She dated a Christian man outside the liberal echo chamber and realized there was good in them thar Christians. 2000 years can't be all wrong, the message is still good, despite what he awful messengers.

Blogger Nate November 04, 2016 9:23 AM  

"No way, Kratman. You don't get to keep all those along the East Coast like that. Flyover Country deserves its fair share of gruesome justice. "

exactly. I-40 is a much better option.

Blogger Front toward enemy November 04, 2016 9:23 AM  

...despite the...

Blogger Cerdic Ricing November 04, 2016 9:23 AM  

I've noticed that it seems that the people who understand hold some sort of hardened expression. I've noticed Stephan and you both seem to have a similar expression as well, whenever I see y'all in videos. There's something visual that I've noticed, as far as people you can tell "know," so to say. I've had friends comment that I look like I've "seen shit." I was going to comment on it a few days ago, but I couldn't find the way to properly articulate it in the context of this blog. In kind of the youth Alt-Right/Fascist sphere, I could describe it as a "redpilled" look.

OpenID simplytimothy November 04, 2016 9:24 AM  

Drudge has it now.

Blogger Thomas Davidsmeier November 04, 2016 9:25 AM  

God says that His wisdom makes the wise foolish and is a stumbling block to them. I've got to admit, if He's selected Trump as an instrument of Divine Retribution, I'll be pretty dumbfounded.

I guess Jesus picked at least one tax collector as a disciple. Still, I bet that had to have people scratching their heads back then.

Anonymous Bodo November 04, 2016 9:25 AM  

Years ago I read this book "The Franklin Cover-Up". Sickening stuff. The Washington Times had a story out, but it never got anywhere. No one of importance went to prison.

For about two years now I read this German speaking website from an Austrian engineer turned "goldbug". Many people laugh at him and his theories or information. He is consistent with two claims.

1. That the old nobilities of Europe are fed up with the status quo, they want revenge and burn the system down. He's talking money system and left-wing policies and everything that comes along with it (immigration, sexual stuff etc).

2. "Vomit inducing" sick information will come out that will rail the people up - we are talking pitchforks and rope.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 04, 2016 9:25 AM  

Keyser, I'd say justice and the dignity of the state demand they be left up there with no easy outs.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 04, 2016 9:27 AM  

Thomas and Nate, I didn't say, after all, that they'd only be nailed up along I-95, only that I was willing to organize it for I-95. Tsk.

OpenID simplytimothy November 04, 2016 9:27 AM  

Any photoshop guys want to put a "I'm With Her" on this pic?

http://www.infowars.com/spirit-cooking-clinton-campaign-chairman-invited-to-bizarre-satanic-performance/

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2016 9:28 AM  

Drudge's link is to Infowars so we all know the left and the establishment will poo poo that.

Anonymous Incurvatus November 04, 2016 9:29 AM  

The college I was attending back in the day brought Eleanor Smeal to campus to give a speech. As a Christian, I wanted nothing to do with her abortion-is-a-sacrament-for-feminism proselytizing, however we happened to pass each other on the sidewalk. There was a palpable bubble of evil immediately near her so strong I was pushed out of step and well out of her way.

Anonymous WinstonWebb November 04, 2016 9:30 AM  

You need a "supernatural" element to define evil. Evil needs to be an intrisic quality in the laws of the universe.
Then do does "good", which also does not require a supernatural element. Your two statements above are not logically consistent. For instance:

We know evil when we see it.
If evil were an intrinsic quality of the universe, then you wouldn't define it so subjectively.

At any rate, this is veering off-topic. Since I'm the original culprit of the rabbit trail, I'll end it here. I do appreciate your responses, though.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 04, 2016 9:30 AM  

Thomas and Nate, I didn't say, after all, that they'd only be nailed up along I-95, only that I was willing to organize it for I-95. Tsk.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 04, 2016 9:30 AM  

Keyser, I'd say justice and the dignity of the state demand they be left up there with no easy outs.

Blogger Mountain Man November 04, 2016 9:30 AM  

This shit is real, these people are truly this evil and this is how a large portion of the system works. At the risk of providing any information that could potentially dox me...I can say this based upon hard facts from individuals that I personally know who have power within it and are working overtime to root the rats out.
The current rigged game known as the "political shitstem" needs a flame thrower taken to it.

Anonymous krymneth November 04, 2016 9:33 AM  

I have often wondered about Trump's Christianity. He claims to be one. Obviously, many here are skeptical, as am I, and I think we have good reason to be skeptical. I mean, for one thing, he is obviously a cad, and he certainly has been divorced a couple times.

On the other hand, as C.S. Lewis points out in Mere Christianity, the real measure of whether someone is a Christian may not be whether they are a good person, but how much better they are than if they were not a Christian, which is impossible for us mortals to judge.

And, yes, if Trump as he is now were in my personal circle he'd be a rather brutish guy, not very considerate of other's feeling, a womanizer and a cad. He's also not all that accurate when speaking about the Bible.

On the other hand... in his native habitat of the elites of the world, he may very well be a shining beacon of virtue, absolutely no sarcasm intended. It is clear that he has had every opportunity to become part of the world being uncovered, indeed was probably pressured the way a middle class child may be pressured into drugs, but he is instead risking his life and his fortune to tear it apart. He doesn't even drink. That's... honestly rather more virtuous than the aforementioned "my personal circle", none of whom are risking that much. Including me.

(Does he not drink not just because it doesn't suit him, but because he knows he can't afford to let his guard down in the environment he's in even a little? Because he's seen what happens to those who do?)

I've also wondered in the last couple of days if there's a connection between that and his well-known rather plebeian tastes for gold plating everything and such. Even now he lives more like a middle class person who got rich than a rich person in a lot of ways. Is that perhaps because he's completely failed to absorb the tastes of the upper class as a signaling mechanism, subconscious or otherwise, that he isn't one of them?

I do not know whether Trump is truly a Christian any more than I know the true status of anyone else. I'm not saying I'm committed to the idea that he is. Even if he is on the front lines far more than any of us realize there's really still no excuse for not knowing the Bible very well, as that is commanded of all of us. But... where six months ago I was relatively confident he was not (within the parameters of the first sentence of this paragraph), I'm a lot less confident now. Maybe he really is, and is a lot more battle-scarred than I understood.

Anonymous Credo_In_Unum_Deum November 04, 2016 9:33 AM  

I had to look up "Cheese Pizza" on urban dictionary because of this whole wikileaks shit.

. . .

I know evil exists, but knowing it on a "Intellectual level" is one thing.

Knowing that it has infested the highest levels of power, and it's about to take control of the most powerful nuclear arsenal on Earth is another thing entirely...

Blogger Nate November 04, 2016 9:34 AM  

"Thomas and Nate, I didn't say, after all, that they'd only be nailed up along I-95, only that I was willing to organize it for I-95. Tsk."

Fair enough. I recant.

Blogger Mountain Man November 04, 2016 9:34 AM  

@7
I can't wait for the day that a flaccid cuck like him has to resort to male prostitution to feed himself.

Blogger Phillip George November 04, 2016 9:34 AM  

Thanks for pursuing this line.
I met a woman, professional psychologist who got involved with debriefing victims of ritual satanic abuse.
She had, among other things, one of the longest running court battles in Australian history, a defamation case running over a decade and a half. [ not dissimilar to Mark Steyn's experience exposing climate fraudsters]
Anyway, point is, one of her hardest battles, was simply getting people to believe the content. The Colonel Kurtz sorts of "the horror". Things I wouldn't repeat on an open line. Things a sane man would vomit at the reading of.

Luka Magnotta, the Canadian murderer, cannibal, male prostitute, self publicist home movie maker, was only exceptional in not being politically connected, groomed, protected. Had he have played his cards right he could have had a career in politics, even after his little indiscretions.

I know I've said it all before but America should have been more disturbed, appalled, reactive, over the slaughter of common garden variety wackos at Waco. State sanctioned killings of wackos should have mattered more, to more people. Wacko lives matter.

Luka Magnotta's victim was Lin Jun. As a client of a male prostitute he wasn't in a good state before that day. Victims have names. I hope they get a headline or three these coming days.

If we aren't appalled by their deaths, we'll not escape the voracious appetite for blood. David Kelly to Seal Team 6 to Christopher Stephens, it all matters.

Anonymous johnc November 04, 2016 9:38 AM  

Could it be that God is finally fed up with all this bullshit and is stepping in?

Blogger Ingot9455 November 04, 2016 9:39 AM  

@9 Embrace the power of 'and'.

OpenID simplytimothy November 04, 2016 9:39 AM  

@16 The obvious evil is obvious, ...

The casualness of the conversations ...there is no hint of conscience .





Blogger Mountain Man November 04, 2016 9:39 AM  

Bodo
Do you have a link to his site. Very interested in reading ( unfortunatelyif its in German Ill need a translator)

Anonymous Credo_In_Unum_Deum November 04, 2016 9:40 AM  

One weird experience with me I can tell...

I was at a graduation ceremony. Waiting for things to start, and the feeling "Pray!!" Came over me. So I did.

Didn't really know why. It wasn't a voice, just a feeling that can be described as: "Call on Jesus! NOW!"

A few moments later, one of the speakers then started talking about the wonders of embryonic stem cell research... Yeah... Chopping up babies for medical research.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 04, 2016 9:40 AM  

I don't watch TV or read legacy media but if anyone does are they out in force doing their usual mocking this Occult story on Drudge right now?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 04, 2016 9:41 AM  

@9. Both. People can get up to any and every manner of evil in and of themselves, but it takes time. Supernatural evil helps by making slips and slides that ought to take years or even centuries happen in seconds.

I do enjoy the entertainment factor of a Sweet Meteor O Doom scenario, but it wouldn't be nearly as funny if it came true.

You can look at evil and see it, but when you step through a door and your hackles go up, your mouth goes dry, and your skin starts trying to roll itself up, and you never manage the faintest idea why (even well after getting the hell out of dodge), I'd call it a safe bet supernatural evil is at play.

The fact that with exceeding rarity you'll run into a person who gives you that supernatural evil feeling lends credence to the possibility of demon possession, that's for sure. I mean, how would you even tell the difference between an ostensible "human" of that magnitude of anathema, and an actual demon?

@21. I learned a few years back how to shed that look and do "naive eyes". I don't think I can predict how people would react if I stopped going with a compromise between the two and went all the way non-naive.

Blogger Ingot9455 November 04, 2016 9:44 AM  

@34 It's tangential to the topic, but Trump doesn't drink because his older brother started drinking (with some drugs, but alcohol was supposed to be the worst)and couldn't stop, and died young of alcohol related issues. Made Trump promise, on his deathbed, to never drink or do drugs. And he hasn't.

Several stories out there of Trump at coke-fueled New York parties where the alcohol flowed, standing there with a Diet Coke in his hand.

As has been said, weakness in one is weakness in all. Alcohol and drugs to excess are one way that a person's resistances are weakened. Bad things enter when the body, the mind, or the spirit's immune system are weak.

Anonymous Elipe November 04, 2016 9:45 AM  

I sit in a cubicle now, but believe me when I say I would use my time off to crucify some fuckers with you guys along I-40.

I'm burning with that much anger. A lot of people are.

The Saxon has begun to hate.

Anonymous VFM 42 November 04, 2016 9:45 AM  

"fundamental wrongness on the part of everyone involved"

An English Ambassador returned from Germany before WWII after meeting members of the new Socialist Government said. "Those people are not normal."

I was in academia for 25 years before I was kicked out for thought crimes those 8 words really hit me "fundamental wrongness on the part of everyone involved". Every University I've been to there is a fundamental wrongness. I struggled for years believing it was me, my background and unique life experiences (military, religious) or actually having life experiences. Part of the problem was having an IQ at least a standard deviation higher than most at the University and probably 2SD higher. I can count on one hand Professors that were my equal or smarter. I didn't even know my IQ until after leaving the Uni. and realized that that was a part of the problem, constantly dealing with midwits.

Beyond the lack of intelligence there is that "fundamental wrongness" that permeates the ether of the University. I now know the reasons why.

Blogger Mighty Lou November 04, 2016 9:45 AM  

During his rallies, Trump will often exclaim to his audience that he loves them. I believe him.

Blogger Mighty Lou November 04, 2016 9:49 AM  

The Trump wall should have spikes atop it.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2016 9:53 AM  

> Evil certainly exists. But, is it natural or supernatural?

There's no reason it can't be both. I see a couple of others have already pointed this out.

Blogger Mountain Man November 04, 2016 9:53 AM  

"An English Ambassador returned from Germany before WWII after meeting members of the new Socialist Government said. "Those people are not normal."

It reminds me of a story told to me by my father. My great, great grandfather was an industrialist titan. By dent of his wealth and status he would ,on occasion spend time in the social circles of the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts etc... He hated nearly all of them - particularly the Rockefellers. He stated once that he was most disgusted with the Rockefellers due in large measure to the fact that they would use less sophisticated people to implement their agendas and then once they had outlived their usefulness - throw them to the wolves. Cold hearted reptiles is what he called them

Blogger Kant Leerus November 04, 2016 9:56 AM  

Agreed

Blogger The Kurgan November 04, 2016 9:57 AM  

Tom K.
As a somewhat descendant of the Roman Empire I happily submit my services in the interest of international co-operation to ensure proper crucifixion is followed accurately and with historical observation to pre-crucifixion flaying.
Happy to personally demonstrate for he benefit of instructing your American forces.

Anonymous Red November 04, 2016 10:00 AM  

Roll Tide Roll

OpenID simplytimothy November 04, 2016 10:01 AM  

@48 Beyond the lack of intelligence there is that "fundamental wrongness" that permeates the ether of the University. I now know the reasons why.

I felt it too.

Anonymous Red November 04, 2016 10:01 AM  

I-80. From New York to San Francisco.

Blogger Junius Stone November 04, 2016 10:02 AM  

On the contrary, good does require that. Otherwise..it is "I like that/makes me comfortable". It is that intrinsic element in us, ie the soul, which enables us to recognize good and evil.

Blogger The Kurgan November 04, 2016 10:09 AM  

Best to have three lanes to cater to all. East, west and central.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 10:13 AM  

Had a weird experience in a university college block. No drugs, no nothing, just stepped into an empty room and my senses just all went WHERE THE FUCK IS IT WHERE THE FUCK IS IT WHERE THE FUCK IS IT for just over a second, then went back off alert. It felt like my point of focus circled the small room, VERY fast, then re-centred. No dizziness, no loss of balance, I was just... involuntarily tracking something that wasn't there. I am not prone to now have I had any form of religious "experience" and I am well acquainted with my own "jump at shadows" reflex from walking long distances at night alone in the very, very empty countryside. Never experienced exactly this before or since.

I had no fuckin' idea that was *common*.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 10:14 AM  

*nor have I had

Blogger Were-Puppy November 04, 2016 10:15 AM  

@39 johnc
Could it be that God is finally fed up with all this bullshit and is stepping in?
---

I am coming to believe that, it seems Trump would have gone down by now otherwise.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat November 04, 2016 10:15 AM  

Milady says she's afraid of what Trump might do. I tell her "I don't know what he might do, but I absolutely know what she is capable of and has done, and it's anything."

This is definitely the time to pray. We need to pray for mercy, and that God gives us a government that will obey Him, and NOT the government our country deserves (and has been asking for!).

Blogger Ron November 04, 2016 10:18 AM  

And it's also why I suspect that Donald Trump, the man who once described pedophile procurer Jeffrey Epstein as "a great guy", may have experienced a similar enlightenment at some point in time. As another commenter, leukosfash, observed:

I sincerely hope that is the case. But as I have said repeatedly, even if he is lying, he is at least saying the right lies.

In any case. Prayer.

Blogger Ron November 04, 2016 10:21 AM  

@VD

And what I sensed more than saw was an intrinsic and fundamental wrongness on the part of everyone involved. It literally made me feel a pressing urge to run, not walk, away from all of it.

That is EXACTLY what I felt. A sort of sick horror/loathing that you can't put your finger on.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 04, 2016 10:24 AM  

@43 Credo_In_Unum_Deum
One weird experience with me I can tell...
---

I've had a lot of those type experiences over the years

Anonymous SumDood November 04, 2016 10:28 AM  

How many people along the i-40 corridor need to be crucified? How many along i-40 need to witness the crucifixions to shock them out of rabbitry?

Same questions for i-95.

i-95 wins.

Blogger Mike Muehleck November 04, 2016 10:29 AM  

Wish the US markets would verify this narrative

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 10:31 AM  

"The reason I have come to believe Christianity is true, that Jesus Christ is the hard and narrow path out of a fallen world, that the model of good and evil described in the Bible is real"

Good and evil isn't objective. Good and evil is what you believe is good and bad for your clan. This strikes me as so obvious that I'm shocked when others deny it in any way. It's as though the ignorance is deliberate.

Blogger OGRE November 04, 2016 10:38 AM  

@17 my sentiments exactly. My heart tells me this all is true, but I know that theres a possiblity that it is not. But in any event if it helps bring these people down then I am all for it.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 04, 2016 10:39 AM  

And what I sensed more than saw was an intrinsic and fundamental wrongness on the part of everyone involved. It literally made me feel a pressing urge to run, not walk, away from all of it.
---

I'm so glad you posted this, I've had many many experiences like this. Usually my brain tells me FIGHT, but that feeling when your sensors pick up on something - it's like a shock to your entire system and brain.



I think The Golden Don found out about those poor kids years ago and he's been plotting all this time to avenge their suffering, even if it cost him his last nickle. There is a flinty grimness in his pursuit of the White House that I noticed, even when he's smiling, but I couldn't understand it until now. He literally loathes all of those evil fuckers; which also explains his refusal to go along with the yukks at that roast thingy.
---

Sometime last year I had posted that idea that the elites had pissed off Trump in some fashion and he decided to kick all their asses. Maybe there is something to this after all? It's been hard to figure exactly why he stepped into the ring other wise.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat November 04, 2016 10:40 AM  

On the same thread, I am going to go slightly OT, but it's important. I can't talk about the details, but E and C are friends of ours, and their 2 daughters are friends of my daughter. Daughter #2 has gone off the rails in a highly irrational way, and E is faced with letting daughter #2 mess her whole life up to protect daughter #1 and C.

The entire situation is so clearly an attack by the enemy that they all (especially daughter #2) desperately need prayer.

It's also a hard example about letting SJW women run wild. Their old church had a "support group" of abuse survivors. The SJW women in the group egged Daughter #2 on, but when she actually does what they encourage, not one of them are there for her....

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 04, 2016 10:40 AM  

It's a wonderful feeling to be inhabiting the same mental universe as everyone else, briefly, with no distinction between abstractions and concrete realities.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 04, 2016 10:42 AM  

Torture is pagan, folks. Just put a bullet in them and put their bodies on spikes (for the dignity of the state, was it?) if you want a Christian nation in the future. Torturing them is God's job.

Anonymous Beau November 04, 2016 10:43 AM  

Seek the Lord while he may be found
Call upon him while he is near
Let the wicked forsake his way
and the unrighteous man his thoughts

Let him return to the Lord
that he may have compassion upon him
and to out God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isaiah 55:6-7

Blogger The Kurgan November 04, 2016 10:43 AM  

Stanish,
Fuck you, you lying, relativist prick. You think that kind of fuckwittery will have traction on VD's blog?
Man, I can't wait for when people like you get the full brunt of reality right in the face.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 10:48 AM  

So, if I thought fucking kids was good for my clan, it wouldn't be evil to fuck kids?

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 10:49 AM  

I have decided it would be good for my clan if someone shoved a fork in Stanish's eye. Lucky for him I believe in objective evil!

Anonymous Elipe November 04, 2016 10:49 AM  

Do you really want to argue moral relativism when your kind is about to face the gallows?

I mean, talk about fucking stupid.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 04, 2016 10:50 AM  

Today Erick Erickson posted that Trump is a harbinger of the anti-Christ.

He sure has risen in their estimation from the laughable clown they claimed he was a year ago.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 04, 2016 10:51 AM  

My main experience (although I've had a couple other sudden "I'm going to turn around and come again another day" moments) was living in a small town in the middle of nowhere. The population was about 900-1200 while I lived there. The town had 0-1 real churches, 5-6 of what I would call "fake" churches (completely spiritually dead social gatherings), 13 very busy bars, no theater or other source of entertainment.

Supposedly the town was named after someone who donated quite a bit of land for its founding, but if you walked to the top of a hill on one side of town, you'd find a quite nice, very thick cast brass plate set into the top of it, proclaiming the town to be "Lust", which was only one letter off from what the town's name was "supposed" to be. Oddly the town existed for probably upward of 50 years *before* the person it was named after was ever in the area.

The only historical landmark of note in town, besides a few tiny museums, was an old brothel, supposedly from the town's silver mining era (there were boarded up mine tunnels in the base of the aforementioned hill) but which actually preexisted it. The madame was murdered (https://infogalactic.com/info/Mother_Featherlegs) (and possibly some or all of the girls as well... a thousand different and more odious stories from different people about it) in the past, and some of the older folks in town hinted that it was the site of murders on more than one occasion.

At one point my father tried to dig into the history of the town, and there just, wasn't any, between about 50 years ago and 130, the history just doesn't exist. No records anywhere, and no one could say why. I also tried to check after he did, and yeah, there was a very distinct and large cut-out section in the town's history.

The town was extremely tightly controlled and regulated by what might be called a cabal of a few of the oldest/wealthiest families, in an almost certainly illegal fashion, though it would be all but impossible to prove.

Occasionally, if you happened to pass by, you'd see that the ever-busy bars would be suddenly empty on a weekday, for no discernible reason. We always assumed someone was throwing a party somewhere, but they must have been very secretive parties.

Oh, yeah, and during midwinter, if you decided to drive out of town (and thus almost inevitably out of the county) in any direction, you'd see something that I and several others remarked on on many occasions. There was very high and nearly constant gusting wind in town, and snowdrifts 6-12 feet high during the winter were not at all uncommon, with sometimes 15 foot drifts over snow fences alongside roads. Right, exactly at the borders of the county, in all directions, you could *see* the snowdrifts go from 8-15 footers, down to 1-2 feet of smooth flat snow in about a 3 foot span. Yes, the weather changed right at the borders of that one-town county.

Definitely the most creepy-evil place I've ever lived. Way too much going on there that could never be explained. Felt like hell had quite literally touched the place at some point, and never really stopped.

*Back OT*: Yeah, evil is real, and I don't think the word "relief" is the right one for the feeling of getting free of it.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 04, 2016 10:53 AM  

Also if you checked the infogalactic article, I can tell you it's lying about at least one thing. That whorehouse was a solidly sized two-story building, it was no dugout. Must have been by far the largest building in town, probably for a full century before the 50 years of "recorded" history.

Blogger Lee Katt November 04, 2016 10:54 AM  

Mr. Vox Day:

In 1992, I also found myself on the outskirts of that group. Also, a brief relationship. Also, a brief gimpse. I had a similar sense of alienation, both moral and spiritual, that these people were just ... off. There was a ruthlessness that went beyond normal tough-mindedness and determination, and with a weird cheerfulness, too. There was a sense of entitlement and a willingness to see others as instruments. I wanted to get away from these people as quickly as possible.

Anonymous Deplorable S E Delenda November 04, 2016 10:56 AM  

"The reason I have come to believe Christianity is true, that Jesus Christ is the hard and narrow path out of a fallen world, that the model of good and evil described in the Bible is real, is because it, and only it, explains the behavior of various people I have met in the course of my life to my satisfaction."

Indeed, there is no other explanation for the condition of humanity.

Not only does evil exist; but human beings find it a vexing problem, where through acts of omission or commission we participate in it or fall victim to it. Even those we identify as "good" are beset by some frailty (ies), even if it only affects their interior disposition and has no apparent external manifestation. Y

In addition to validating the central Christian idea that we are fallen and need a redeemer; it invalidates the leftist (collectivist, secularist/atheist, statist) notions that humanity is perfectible in this realm, if the "right" people are in charge of a massive administrative superstate.

Indeed Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, among many, many others illustrate that the very idea that a few enlightened should invade the affairs of the many is in itself evil; as the imperiousness necessary to seek, acquire, enhance and maintain such control is lust-the lust for power identified by St. Augustine centuries ago: Libido Dominandi.

Anonymous Amir Larijani November 04, 2016 10:58 AM  

"I've noticed that grimness too. And more than that, I've noticed it in his family and in his entire circle. Nothing fazes them. Nothing even causes them to blink. And nothing can disguise their obvious loathing and contempt for his opponent and everyone around her. Watch Donald Trump Jr. in particular. He looks like he's itching to personally waterboard every single member of the Clinton inner circle."

That alone would be worth the price of admission.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 11:05 AM  

"Fuck you, you lying, relativist prick. You think that kind of fuckwittery will have traction on VD's blog?
Man, I can't wait for when people like you get the full brunt of reality right in the face"

I'll see your "fuck you" and raise you a "fuck off"! It's one thing to ridicule a statement with a semblance of a reasoned retort. It's another thing to simple have a tantrum. Regardless of what readers think of my statement, I'm sure baby tantrums like yours isn't what many think of as a reasoned response.

Anonymous RCFlyer November 04, 2016 11:06 AM  

Apologies if anyone raised this already, but I'm wondering if this is the reason Drudge has been posting all those inexplicable/odd links to stories about exorcisms and demonic possession for months/years now.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 11:07 AM  

"So, if I thought fucking kids was good for my clan, it wouldn't be evil to fuck kids?"

If you thought fucking kids was good for your clan then you'd place fucking kids in the "good" column. It's not a matter of what's objectively good or objectively evil.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 11:09 AM  

"Do you really want to argue moral relativism when your kind is about to face the gallows?"

Who is going to be doing the hanging? A bunch of anonymous online trolls like you and your friends?

Anonymous Homesteader November 04, 2016 11:10 AM  

"Good and evil isn't objective. Good and evil is what you believe is good and bad for your clan. This strikes me as so obvious that I'm shocked when others deny it in any way. It's as though the ignorance is deliberate."

It's as though your disingenuousness is deliberate..

Blogger Lee Katt November 04, 2016 11:11 AM  

Mr. Vox Day:

In 1992, I also found myself on the outskirts of that group. Also, a brief relationship. Also, a brief gimpse. I had a similar sense of alienation, both moral and spiritual, that these people were just ... off. There was a ruthlessness that went beyond normal tough-mindedness and determination, and with a weird cheerfulness, too. There was a sense of entitlement and a willingness to see others as instruments. I wanted to get away from these people as quickly as possible.

Anonymous Darth Wheatley #2415 November 04, 2016 11:14 AM  

Mighty Lou wrote:The Trump wall should have spikes atop it.

How else would we attach the decapitated heads?

I'll volunteer for Gulf South duty along I-10.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 11:17 AM  

Stanish, that's an extremely naiive materialism there. As in, not you're naiive for being materialist, but you're really not presenting the better arguments arising from materialism.

What you're stating is just a reversal of the second (ie, not Kant's) Naturalistic Fallacy. And if we accept that you are not making an error of formal logic in doing so, you immediately validate the aristotle-thomist logic of naturally observable material good, which then means that, in fact, good is observable and material.

Which makes good and evil are quantifiable characteristics of the natural world, which means they are not social constructs. Which defeats your argument, but not materialism.



Blogger VD November 04, 2016 11:17 AM  

I've noticed that it seems that the people who understand hold some sort of hardened expression. I've noticed Stephan and you both seem to have a similar expression as well, whenever I see y'all in videos.

I've noticed that people who are inclined towards evil often refer to the expression you describe as "scary". I think it may be due to what Bane once described as the remorselessness of the good man. When you know something is, without question, truly evil, you are not inclined to show it mercy, give it the benefit of the doubt, or negotiate with it.

That understandably frightens those who depend upon talking their way out of everything.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 11:20 AM  

In other words, you've reinvented natural law, which confounds your argument of morality as purely subjective (relative is different again), per this essay:
http://www.libertylawsite.org/liberty-forum/natural-law-natural-rights-and-private-property/

Blogger Lazarus November 04, 2016 11:22 AM  

Bobby Farr wrote:A wide variety of opinion. Today Erick Erickson posted that Trump is a harbinger of the anti-Christ. lol

Projection

Blogger The Kurgan November 04, 2016 11:25 AM  

I believe in it too and yet am of the opinion that doing so, whikstvnot "God approved" would be beneficial to the greater good.

Blogger Markus November 04, 2016 11:28 AM  

@Bodo: I'm new here. Been a Molyneux listener for a while. If you are familiar with the macro prognosticator Jim Willie of "the Golden Jackass" I wonder if your Austrian blogger has some point of overlap with Willie's "the Voice", of whom all we are told is that he is central European. The Voice speaks to Willie of gold flows and the like.

Blogger Ceasar November 04, 2016 11:30 AM  

Bomb dropped.....

http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/11/04/erik-prince-nypd-ready-make-arrests-weiner-case/

Blogger OGRE November 04, 2016 11:34 AM  

If Good and Evil are not objective, then they simply do not exist. Period. Any claims for morality based on 'clans' or other relativistic bullshit means nothing. X is good because its good for the clan? What does it matter whats good for the clan then?

Moral relativism is simply arguing for preferences. You cannot ascribe any moral weight to any claim under moral relativism. Is it really Bad if a rock falls on the clan and destroys every last one of you? How can it be Bad if the clan doesn't exist? Really, its just playing with words. Attempting to redefine 'morality' into personal or group preferences. Just say there is no such thing as morality and be done with it.

Blogger The Rev November 04, 2016 11:36 AM  

You just can't know how evil Evil can be until you look it in the eyes. Until the mask slips.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 11:38 AM  

Originally Moral Relativism was the acknowledgement that people DO have culturally ingrained morals and can believe themselves to be right, while doing evil.

It's actually incoherent if good and evil have no other meaning.

Blogger The Kurgan November 04, 2016 11:39 AM  

An excellent point. I sincerely hope we are approaching a time when just retribution to these vermin becomes a common everyday occurrence.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 04, 2016 11:41 AM  

Stanish, you posit that objective good and evil are false.

Barring that, there are a few options, only different by nuance:

#1: What benefits you is good, evil is what is detrimental to you.
#2: What benefits those you care about is good, evil is detrimental to them/you.
#3: What benefits humanity is good, blah blah blah.
#4: What benefits everything alive is good.
#5: What benefits the universe is good.

If good is only what is good for you and yours, is everyone who is not you and yours innately evil because they will inevitably struggle with you and yours? Such a childish opinion.

As I said before, what you're describing is only a single perspective, that of a "clan-ism" if you will. You're completely ignoring not only all the other potential, but the necessary perspectives. You're effectively going with "I wish my clan to ultimately (in all senses) dominate all, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead."

So, I'll be (not) the first to say "go fuck yourself."

Alternatively, you're a troll. Actually, that makes a hell of a lot more sense than you seriously being this dumb. Reverse Dunning-Kruger, here I come.

Blogger VD November 04, 2016 11:41 AM  

Bomb dropped.....

That's not a bomb. We already knew all of that. The bomb is when the NYPD finally mans up and does its duty without worrying that DOJ is going to prosecute an officer or two over the Eric Garner case.

Seriously, how is that even slowing them down at all?

Anonymous Dedicated Lurker November 04, 2016 11:42 AM  

As a longtime lurker I've had a similar experience. Barely more than a year ago I was a Sam Harris devotee. But I've become more and more christian seeing that most atheists will at best do nothing in the face of evil, and the only ones with any moral fortitude were christians. I couldn't write it off as coincidence anymore that most atheists were just fucking evil, and christians mostly good

Anonymous mature-Craig November 04, 2016 11:44 AM  

re : evil and the democratic party.

I have mellowed out on them recently thinking in the past the problem was mostly me, but I sometimes wonder if I used to have it right

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 04, 2016 11:44 AM  

Why are you fucking idiots arguing moral theory with a fool? You should know better by now. As a dog returns to its vomit...

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 11:46 AM  

@106, it's been whitewashed from history that the ONLY staunch resistance to the Nazis was Christian.

The "good civic minded people" of Lions Clubs and other good, modern, non-dogmatic Good People were the first and fastest to either flip to the Nazi side or get parasited to death by Nazi entry-ism.

When things really go pear-shaped, Good Decent Not At All Fundamentalist people are the first to rip off their clothes and paint themselves with blood.

Anonymous bobdobbs November 04, 2016 11:49 AM  

Stanish wrote:Who is going to be doing the hanging? A bunch of anonymous online trolls like you and your friends?

t'totally t'tubular keks.

When she inevitably figures out you've been making cheese pizza with your nieces and nephews, Yo Mama's gonna be doing the hanging.

You might as well jump in the pot for the slow boil now. It'll be less painful.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 11:49 AM  

@107 I'm just educating him so you regulars can have a better class of fool.

Blogger Gary November 04, 2016 11:50 AM  

On the subject of evil....look into the law firm pushing the anti-Brexit legal case, Mishcon.
Look at the history of its founder, and the firm's mission.
You'll reach the same conclusions as me, Jesus's persecutors are still doing the devil's work.

Blogger RonB November 04, 2016 11:51 AM  

VD
"Bane once described as the remorselessness of the good man."
Where is this from?

Anonymous BGKB November 04, 2016 11:53 AM  

I'll be glad to help organize the crucifixions along I-95 from Boston to Miami.

You will have to leave enough for at least one season of my live game show. "Don't Garrote Fewer Felons Than A Faggot", you realize TRUMP could get some good deals from Russia just by letting Putin be a contestant when the Soros clan makes its last appearance.

Blogger BassmanCO November 04, 2016 11:53 AM  

Let me chime in with another, "fuck you, Stannish". Benjamin Kraft laid out the case why you're a piece of shit, so I will just concur.

The world is not going to get better unless people like me, who are usually averse to confrontation, man up and call out bullshit when they see it. And Stannish, your opinion of good and evil is bullshit.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 11:55 AM  

Nah. It's stupidity.
Okay, in the US they support Socialists and Civic Active Not Very Christians.... the powerbase of the Nazis, historically.
Now in Europe they're trying to undermine the UK to cement German power.


Aren't they supposed to be high IQ? Did they not NOTICE who was shoving them into ovens the last time?

OH NO WHO WILL SAVE US FROM FUNDIE AMERICANS AND INDEPENDENT BRITS? I KNOW! IMPERIALIST GERMANS!

Fuck me dead. Dumbest people on earth. Maybe the next holocaust they'll take better notes or something.

Blogger SouthRon November 04, 2016 11:55 AM  

Many have said pray. I would like to invite all so inclined to participate in a 3 day fast leading up to the election. I intend to start Sunday when I wake. Feel free to join in as you feel led and are able.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 04, 2016 11:57 AM  

I've had friends comment that I look like I've "seen shit." I was going to comment on it a few days ago, but I couldn't find the way to properly articulate it in the context of this blog. In kind of the youth Alt-Right/Fascist sphere, I could describe it as a "redpilled" look.

That is why we embraced the epithet "shitlord". Chateau Heartiste has some posts on shitlord vs. shitlib physiognomy; you will notice that they the former tend to be eiyher grimly amused or simply grim, in stark contrast to the Gay Mulatto POTUS and gaypedoface Kaine.

Once it has been seen, it cannot be unseen.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 04, 2016 11:57 AM  

Wreckage, you can train a dog to bark but you'll never educate him.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 04, 2016 11:57 AM  

@106. Atheists have no morality. They logically can't have any morality beyond self-interest, and throwing oneself into the breach does not meet self-interest. They die, and there's nothing else, forever, so they will avoid death and pain at all costs.

The closest thing to morality an atheist can ever have, is either an appeal to hedonism, or an attempt to blend in to their surroundings. I call it "chameleon morality", and it is nothing more than the adopted, socially ingrained morality of whatever culture spawned them. In the case of American atheists, Christian culture spawned them, so they will cling at all costs to scraps of christian morality.

Without moral scraps, the only logical end of an atheist is inevitably either nihilism(passive "let me die" or aggressive "I will destroy") or hedonism. Really, they are the same. Both nihilism and hedonism are subject only to the desires, but while hedonism chases pleasure, nihilism chases either despair, insanity, or hatred.

It's funny, because Atheism, supposedly about intellectualism, consumes itself from the tail forward, feeding its entire logic to the abyss of nihilism, ending up with nothing besides the head of desires that always was its impetus, though it sought so mightily to deny it.

@107. Very true.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 11:58 AM  

@118 True enough, but if I leave you with an idiot dog that does amusing tricks, I've made the world... just that little bit better.
*sincere look*

Anonymous mature-Craig November 04, 2016 12:00 PM  

actually I totally understand everything thoroughly and have no more questions about anything anymore, and im just bored

Anonymous NateM November 04, 2016 12:01 PM  

http://people.com/politics/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit-accuser-raped-13/

So looks like hillary put her projection in over time to try to muddy the waters on the ultimate revelation that she's a kid diddler so she can say "oh look, but he is (allegedly) too!". Until that case falls apart like all the others. The article even says she was supposed to come forward but didn't, and they claim a "hack". I bet anything either it's a stall tactic to carry this to election, or anonymous is going to blow that case up publicly right in their faces.

Blogger Lew Rand November 04, 2016 12:05 PM  

Well as an agnostic (I just don't know and my upbringing has not swayed me to any faith) I have very strong morals. But I may be confused as well. I don't drink or do drugs and that confuses most of my friends. But I have always felt to be a servant of my fellow man, though I am much more capable than most of them (both physically and intellectually). Hell I question why I don't abuse my gifts occasionally, but it is just not who I am.

I believe the benefit of civilization could be a moral basis, but too many midwits and below for that to work (Libertopia anyone?)

Unlike those that raised me, I see the need for religion and have come to appreciate it more over time. But have not found the faith myself.

Sorry if this strays from the OT discussion even further, but just putting out my take.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 12:05 PM  

"If Good and Evil are not objective, then they simply do not exist. Period. Any claims for morality based on 'clans' or other relativistic bullshit means nothing. X is good because its good for the clan? What does it matter whats good for the clan then?"

Well, it certainly matters to the clan, doesn't it. Whether it matters to those outside the clan should be observable or at least discernable.

"Just say there is no such thing as morality and be done with it."

There clearly are moral systems that various people subscribe to in one degree or another. But there clearly is no objective morality imposed from outside human agency.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 12:10 PM  

"But there clearly is no objective morality imposed from outside human agency."

I'm interested in your overall argument, but this actually doesn't do anything for it. Morality doesn't have to be imposed from outside human agency, it just has to be something that can be derived from observation, to be a feature of the natural world. So in that context you're wrong.

And in the immaterial or supernatural respect, you've just used completely circular logic, or at best, an argument from incredulity; you've done nothing to support your own argument that morality is trivially obviously "what's good for the clan".

The term you're looking for, however, is "kin selection". Try it, it will make your non-argument sound much more authoritative.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 12:10 PM  

"If good is only what is good for you and yours, is everyone who is not you and yours innately evil because they will inevitably struggle with you and yours? Such a childish opinion."

Isn't possible that what Clan 1 believes is good will also be held by clan 2 to be good? Of course that's possible. Isn't it possible that in this circumstance there will be less "struggle" between these two clans? Of course that is possible.

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 12:12 PM  

Stanish, do you believe that morality can in any way be defined, or is it ONLY preference? It has nothing to do with suffering, for example? So if a moral system that prefered rape, and the inherent suffering, proved reproductively successful, then, mehh?

Anonymous Nathan November 04, 2016 12:15 PM  

@123,

" But there clearly is no objective morality imposed from outside human agency."

Please prove your claim.

Anonymous mature-Craig November 04, 2016 12:17 PM  

but on a more optimistic note, I believe that Trump KNOWS America very well and he knows how it works, and he sincerely wants to try to do everything he can to improve it and make it work better... so that gives me a strong feeling of optimism

Blogger OGRE November 04, 2016 12:20 PM  

@123 By ascribing the weight of morality to human desires, you are simply elevating human preference to that of divinity. You can no more say "Murder is Evil" than "Gravity is Evil"...its nonsense either way. You can describe any system you like for explaining human preferences, but defining it as Morality is just twisting the words.

Again, is it a Bad thing if explode a bomb that destroys the Earth and all human life? If there are no human agents to give it any moral weight how can it be good or bad? And if the morality of it comes from the existence of human agents, then how does the preferences of human minds give rise to Morality?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 04, 2016 12:20 PM  

@125. It's also possible (as well as more likely) that what clans 1 and 2 hold to be good will conflict with each other in a million little ways, and a few big ones. Obviously it would be better for either clan to possess the other clan's belongings, land, food, knowledge, possibly their women as well.

In other words, no, what is good for one clan necessarily conflicts at some stage with what is good for any other clan. Space is limited, resources are limited, time is limited. Any clan that takes from any of these "commons" is disadvantaging any and every other clan that must share the commons. Thus, by the very act of simply living, one clan is another clan's evil.

You don't believe in good and evil, plain and simple. You're simply attempting to pervert their meanings into "beneficial" and "detrimental" which are NOT their meanings. Stop using words you intentionally don't mean.

Blogger Steampunk Koala November 04, 2016 12:20 PM  

As much as I'd like to see the corpses of these monsters along a major highway, I think they'd be much more impactful in front of the Capitol buildings. Every day, the new crop walk by their predecessors in a gruesome reminder of the consequences of evil. Live c-span style video feed of every coming and going to the Congress or White House, so that the people can see that the lesson sinks in.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 12:23 PM  

"Stanish, do you believe that morality can in any way be defined, or is it ONLY preference?"

Moral system can clearly be defined and matters of preference. For example, look at biblical morality. It is relatively well defined as laid out in the gospels and it is examined and preferred to other systems.

Blogger Basil Makedon November 04, 2016 12:27 PM  

@116 That is an excellent idea, I will join you in that.

@119 Agreed. If you are just a meat machine that operates and exists to make partial copies of itself what possible morality could guide you?

How could such a meat machine even trust its logical or moral reasoning? After all, your meat machine control center evolved to find food and make partial copies of itself, not make moral or intellectual judgments. Any such conclusions would be suspect.

Blogger bob kek mando ( I are Spartacus ... and you can too! C'mon, give it a try, these crosses are way more comfy than they look ) November 04, 2016 12:30 PM  

125. Stanish November 04, 2016 12:10 PM
Isn't it possible that in this circumstance there will be less "struggle" between these two clans? Of course that is possible.



that's not the question.

the question is why you assume that "less struggle" is good. every parasite wants the host to struggle less.

you're also assuming that both clans ACTUALLY DO share the same principles.

what if one clan merely pretends to share those principles ... but actually holds others?


let us say that two clans both share the principle of Free Trade as a general good.

but clan A also believes in sacrificing children in addition to their advocation of Free Trade.

should clan B associate with clan A due to 'shared princples' on Free Trade?

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 12:30 PM  

No, that's restating that moral systems exist and people may prefer one over another; that's the truth that is moral relativism.

What I am saying is that your approach denies any meaning at all beyond preference. So if I prefer to set my children on fire, and you prefer to nurture yours, there is no conflict, and you wave and say hi as you drive your kids to school and I wave and say hi as I look up from the bloody dismembered corpses of mine that I am busy flensing, and we're totally cool with each other, all other things being equal.

Anonymous mature-Craig November 04, 2016 12:31 PM  

Unlike those that raised me, I see the need for religion and have come to appreciate it more over time. But have not found the faith myself

Keep seeking, praying in your heart, show Jesus that you are serious about finding Him and getting to know Him and He will reveal Himself to you

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 04, 2016 12:38 PM  

Here we have a clear cut example of evil and Stanish's criticism is just "Is anything ever REALLY evil though? I mean REALLY? Is anything REALLY REAL?"

Disgusting.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 12:39 PM  

"What I am saying is that your approach denies any meaning at all beyond preference."

Better stated: any meaning beyond that which we embue an act with.

"So if I prefer to set my children on fire, and you prefer to nurture yours, there is no conflict, and you wave and say hi as you drive your kids to school and I wave and say hi as I look up from the bloody dismembered corpses of mine that I am busy flensing, and we're totally cool with each other, all other things being equal."

You are assuming these two moral systems playing out in a vacuum, one in which there are no consequences for actions.

Anonymous 11/4 November 04, 2016 12:42 PM  

I have close family members who see all of this, and still vote for Hillary. They even admit this is true.

How are others dealing with this problem? I feel like I cannot have any further relationship with people who openly embrace or at least ignore such great evil in front of their eyes.

Blogger Joshua_D November 04, 2016 12:43 PM  

"He looks like he's itching to personally waterboard every single member of the Clinton inner circle."

THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD PLAN.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 04, 2016 12:45 PM  

How are others dealing with this problem? I feel like I cannot have any further relationship with people who openly embrace or at least ignore such great evil in front of their eyes.

Perhaps by not having any further relationship with them.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 12:45 PM  

"Here we have a clear cut example of evil and Stanish's criticism is just "Is anything ever REALLY evil though? I mean REALLY? Is anything REALLY REAL?"

Where is the clear cut example of evil?

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 12:47 PM  

@136. Yes, I am. can you answer in that vaccuum? Because you're at risk of consequentialism, the usual error of which is to move the moral judgement back a few steps then pretend it isn't there.

It's commonplace enough that I am being a totally good guy asking you outright whether you're going to give moral weight to the outcome, instead of either lbasting you for it in advance or waiting for you to trip over it then declaring myself unilaterally Best At Amateur Philosophy.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 04, 2016 12:47 PM  

You are a snake and your existence irritates me.

Blogger Lazarus November 04, 2016 12:47 PM  

Stanish wrote:Where is the clear cut example of evil?

Exhibit A

Blogger wreckage November 04, 2016 12:50 PM  

Stanish: fucking children.

Are you claiming it is a false accusation, or that it is not evil? And no hiding behind "our culture says", because NAMBLA is part of the US culture, and no hiding behind "natural, unnatural or advantageous" because psychologists now argue that it is a naturally occurring impulse, not a learned one, and its bearing on reproductive survival is approximately zero.

It is also accepted practice in historical and current cultures outside our own.

Is it evil or not?

Blogger CarpeOro November 04, 2016 12:50 PM  

RonB wrote:VD

"Bane once described as the remorselessness of the good man."

Where is this from?



A deceased member of the Dread Ilk (Nate's best friend here). His blog is still up and listed to the right - Reaper's Hairball is the link to it.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 1:05 PM  

Stanish: fucking children.

Are you claiming it is a false accusation, or that it is not evil?"

Are you referring to the accusation that the Clinton's fuck children or the accusation that Trump fucks children? In the end it doesn't matter.

"Is it evil or not?"

I'm sure that fucking someone under the age of 18 is not necessarily wrong or evil, but depending on the circumstances, particularly the intellectual and emotional maturity of the person it could be considered evil.

Blogger bob kek mando ( I are Spartacus ... and you can too! C'mon, give it a try, these crosses are way more comfy than they look ) November 04, 2016 1:10 PM  

136. Stanish November 04, 2016 12:39 PM
You are assuming these two moral systems playing out in a vacuum, one in which there are no consequences for actions.



on what basis should you punish him for sacrificing *his* children?

it harms you and your clan not at all.

appealing to PRE-EXISTING social norms OF OTHERS after you just got done telling us that only the social norms of YOUR CLAN matter is hypocrisy of the highest order.


137. 11/4 November 04, 2016 12:42 PM
I have close family members who see all of this, and still vote for Hillary. They even admit this is true.



i told you that they did not care and they would not care.

they already knew or inferred most of this about Hillary.

that's WHY they love her.

like Stanish, they are wholly evil.



138. Joshua_D November 04, 2016 12:43 PM
THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD PLAN.


if you're going to waterboard them with the Pacific, maybe.



Stanish wrote:Where is the clear cut example of evil?

143. Lazarus November 04, 2016 12:47 PM
Exhibit A



you notice how Wormtongue's words are a near copy of Hillary's excuses about her various crimes?

well, gosh, it was a 'mistake'. i truly didn't mean anything by it. and i forgot everything incriminating so you can't prove intent.

how am i evil?

Blogger tz November 04, 2016 1:13 PM  

In Perelandra Ransom fights the un-man without mercy:
The joy came from finding at last what hatred was made for. As a boy with an axe rejoices on finding a tree, or a boy with a box of coloured chalks rejoices on finding a pile of perfectly white paper, so he rejoiced in the perfect congruity between his emotion and its object.

Amazingly, Christians are the aliens, the immigrants, the violent refugees taking apart the Devil's kingdom by force. The "no-go" zones for the demons have been dismantled and need to be rebuilt.

The devil's tool is to make things fuzzy, relative. But what has happened is Trump is the Puddleglum that stamped out the witch's fire, and now everyone has to take a side - Good OR Evil. There is Pope Leo XIII's vision that the Devil had 100 years. That seemed to start around WW1. That is over, but he will not retreat without a fight. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Deus Vult!

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 1:17 PM  

"on what basis should you punish him for sacrificing *his* children?"

There may be a legal basis. There may be a personal obligation basis.


"it harms you and your clan not at all."
It might not. But it also might. Certainly, it could be viewed as a threat to my clan that there is a person or group nearby willing to carry out an act that so fundamentally contradicts the principles by which my clan lives and that is so detrimental to our safety if we can't determine if the act was anything less than pure cruelty.

Blogger bob kek mando ( I are Spartacus ... and you can too! C'mon, give it a try, these crosses are way more comfy than they look ) November 04, 2016 1:23 PM  

149. Stanish November 04, 2016 1:17 PM
There may be a legal basis. There may be a personal obligation basis.



bullshit.

we weren't talking about legality, and morality has never been dependent on whether something was legal or not.

you are appealing to extraneous non-moral considerations to address the problem of Evil.

YOU asserted that evil was defined by what was good for YOUR clan.

that is the ONLY means by which you may now defend your choice to take action.

you're trying to worm your way out this because you know, just as clearly as we do, that you have neutered yourself.



149. Stanish November 04, 2016 1:17 PM
if we can't determine if the act was anything less than pure cruelty.


many are the clans who survived by practicing cruelty upon others.

the Vikings being a rather notorious historical example.

the Muslim rape gangs in Europe being from today.

how do YOU justify attacking some one who has harmed you NOT AT ALL.

and, frankly, that someone from another clan would choose to harm HIS clan members is a relational benefit to your clan.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2016 1:25 PM  

> Good and evil isn't objective.

I know I'm supposed to feel sorry for you and the fate that awaits you, but one of my faults as a Christian is that I'm simply incapable of that. I'll probably watch the terror and panic on your face and simply smile.

> Good and evil is what you believe is good and bad for your clan.

What I believe is good for my clan is for your and yours to die as quickly but painfully as possible. Aren't you glad I don't accept your definition?

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 1:31 PM  

"we weren't talking about legality, and morality has never been dependent on whether something was legal or not.

you are appealing to extraneous non-moral considerations to address the problem of Evil.

YOU asserted that evil was defined by what was good for YOUR clan.

that is the ONLY means by which you may now defend your choice to take action."

When I said there "may be a moral basis" that was in response to your suggestion that I would be punishing someone for killing their children. I never brought up the issue of punishing anyone. So, if you don't like it when I respond to something specific, don't state something specific in your comment.


"how do YOU justify attacking some one who has harmed you NOT AT ALL."

Here you go again. Where did I imagine attacking anyone?

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 1:33 PM  

"What I believe is good for my clan is for your and yours to die as quickly but painfully as possible. Aren't you glad I don't accept your definition?"

You don't believe it enough to act on it though.

Blogger SmokeyJoe November 04, 2016 1:35 PM  

@1 Tom K
And I'll take over from Boston north.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2016 1:36 PM  

> But there clearly is no objective morality imposed from outside human agency.

It's called free will. You might want to look into it.

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2016 1:38 PM  

> You don't believe it enough to act on it though.

You had better hope that's true, hadn't you? For all you know I'm another Timothy McVeigh, just waiting for the right thing to set me off.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare November 04, 2016 1:38 PM  

This.
Pedophiles and child-murderers, infant-slaughterers and perpetrators of unspeakable evils...their every breath profanes the air around them with the stench of the Pit. The Lord will see Justice done. We will wrest them from their halls of power, their blood-soaked thrones, and cast them out. They will know the suffering they caused their victims. They will feel the same helpless horror that ravaged the minds and hearts of their innocent prey. And they will perish, only to then awaken to their true, eternal punishment.

For too long they have scurried about with darkness cloaking their evil deeds; now the light is scouring away the darkness that is so precious to them, leaving them naked before all men. And they should tremble in terror.

Blogger VD November 04, 2016 1:44 PM  

I'm sure that fucking someone under the age of 18 is not necessarily wrong or evil.

How many people under the age of 18 have you abused, Stanish? How old were you when you were first abused yourself?

Blogger VD November 04, 2016 1:44 PM  

Where is the clear cut example of evil?

You and your argument.

Anonymous Sam the Man November 04, 2016 1:48 PM  

A few comment on Christian salvation/evil from someone on the outside:

In studying Christian doctrine it appears that one of the areas which Christians differed was on the concept of "once saved always saved".

Since I know the two sides to be sincere and I believe they are both followers of JC, that difference puzzled me.

Now it is a Jewish tradition that JC was a sorcerer, and that his family picked it in the time they spent in Egypt, which would implicate Joseph as well. It is how the miracles are explained in the oral tradition, which is kind of amazing as it implicitly accepts them as occurring.

Now if you read the 4 canonical gospels, it appears JC does spend a lot of time ejecting spirits from folks. Interestingly JC is challenged at one point as beings a doer of magic and his response is that how can he eject demons if he is of the same cloth, a house divided cannot stand.

So it seems to me, that the "saved once saved forever" might refer to the fact that Christians are given immunity from demons and spirits and the like , because of their faith in JC. Now faith also translated to trust. So by essence of trusting JC and allowing him into their life or something to that effect, they are insulated from evil gathering a hold on them.

Of course I could be wrong, I often am on areas of Christian doctrine and there seems to be a lot of disagreement among the various schools of thought. But the above interpretation would not violate any of them.

I would also mention that I think one can actually see it in people. The older I get the more I see it. Just as their are genuinely evil folks there are genuinely good folks, you can somehow detect them too and a lot of them are Christians. I have detected what must be malevolent evil and it is not relative, it is real, both manifesting itself in people and in nature.

G-d the father is good and right. Evil is that which turned away from the creator of all and seeks to implement its own will, not act according to the will (as we can detect it) of G-D. I would hazard a guess that since the creator created everything, there are sentient things larger than us who have also denied G-D and seek to undo his will. Their actions and those they influence are evil, some knowing and others not knowing (lost souls).

Not relative, absolute objective. Which leads to the very difficult issue between Jews and Christians: One side or the other turned their face way from G-D. Did the Christians by following a false messiah or did the Jews by denying the messiah that was sent to them by G-d the father?

Very painful.

Anonymous mature-Craig November 04, 2016 1:51 PM  

re Stanish

Jesus talked about "workers of iniquity" He said He will say to many people go away I never knew you, your workers of iniquity.

That's how I deal with people like Stanish,... my patience is finite

Anonymous Sam the Man November 04, 2016 1:51 PM  

Oh yeah, about having sex with underage folks:

Evil, G-D hates those who do evil to the innocent, those who lead them astray or do harm to them. How could be more innocent than the young?

Of course that does not apply to a 17 year old man marrying a 16 year old girl, it really applies to fornication.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 1:56 PM  

"I'm sure that fucking someone under the age of 18 is not necessarily wrong or evil.

How many people under the age of 18 have you abused, Stanish? How old were you when you were first abused yourself?"

I don't know if you'd call it "abuse" but when I was 15 I lost my virginity to Heather Lowe. I'm sure it wasn't great for her, though she was certainly willing and didn't suggest it was abuse.

I was no Romeo, but I did have three or four other sexual encounters with other girls under 18 before I turned 18. Again, it was consensual and no one suggested it was abuse.

So, as you can see, fucking someone under the age of 18 isn't necessarily "abuse", is it. Or is it? I guess it depends.

"Where is the clear cut example of evil?

You and your argument."

Says you....Which is fine.

Blogger Kel November 04, 2016 1:57 PM  

Becoming a Christian and studying the Bible has opened my eyes about good and evil in the world like nothing else ever has. It puts into perspective why the world is the way it is, why LIFE is the way it is, even with so many people trying desperately to come up with their own answers.

EVIL EXISTS, period.

And it will stop at nothing to turn people away from the truth of Christ. Read Matthew Chptr 24 and Revelation. The horrors of political dynasties, dictators, 'secret groups,' Hitler, and ISIS/Al Quaeda are NOTHING compared to what's still to come. Satan is upping his game in these final days, believe it. The Bible says that what's coming will be so unbelievably, unimaginably horrible that nothing like it has ever happened in the history of the world; humans' hearts will simply stop from fear.

If you don't believe evil exists, you're only kidding yourself. CALL OUT TO JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED!

Anonymous Sam the Man November 04, 2016 2:02 PM  

Stanish,

There are other far better equipped to respond, but let me suggest this:

Fornication leads to some bad outcomes, especially for women. VOX has shown evidence that as the N count of women rise, their ability to form long term relationships with men decline. As most women are bound up by their relationship and how successful they are in that are of life, it can be very damaging to them.

No decent person would do damage to another for a simple pleasure, though I am sure we have all done so unknowingly at best, knowingly at worst.

Anonymous crushlimbraw November 04, 2016 2:09 PM  

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." - Ephesians 6:12
pppministries at wordpress has an excellent commentary
Bottom line - we're dealing with reality folks - it's not our imagination!

Blogger bob kek mando ( I are Spartacus ... and you can too! C'mon, give it a try, these crosses are way more comfy than they look ) November 04, 2016 2:16 PM  

153. Stanish November 04, 2016 1:33 PM
You don't believe it enough to act on it though.



today.

but, if tomorrow i and my clan should change our minds, you and your clan have no means to tell us we are wrong ...

to do ANYTHING.

because, according to you, all morality is subjective AND i should only be concerned about that which i AND MY CLAN have decided benefits US.

Blogger Mighty Lou November 04, 2016 2:29 PM  

We've been asking the wrong question. We are asking if evil exists and if so what is it. We should be asking if sin exists and if so what is it.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 2:33 PM  

"You don't believe it enough to act on it though.

today.

but, if tomorrow i and my clan should change our minds, you and your clan have no means to tell us we are wrong ...

to do ANYTHING.

because, according to you, all morality is subjective AND i should only be concerned about that which i AND MY CLAN have decided benefits US."

Bob,
You and your clan won't be changing your mind and decide to eliminate me and my type because you know in your heart it is wrong and because you know if you try, you will fail since you also know the vast majority of society would scorn you for your attempt to harm others.

That said, me and my clan would be able in a very detailed way to tell you why your attempt to kill me and mine is as quick and painful way as possible is wrong and immoral. We may not cite a God's commands, but we would be able to offer reasons why we believe it is wrong. We'd also acknowledge that you think our reasoning incorrect and we would happily defend out position.

Just because we recognize that different groups come to different conclusions concerning right and wrong doesn't mean we can't be convinced many of those other groups' conclusions are immoral.

Anonymous BGKB November 04, 2016 2:42 PM  

Several stories out there of Trump at coke-fueled New York parties where the alcohol flowed, standing there with a Diet Coke in his hand

I have been at clubs drinking soda when people openly did cocaine. Every job I have ever had, other than working for relatives, has had the possibility of drug testing. In DC & Miami people openly doing cocaine was unavoidable.

Blogger BassmanCO November 04, 2016 2:44 PM  

Stanish, have you always been a disingenuous prick, or did it just start today?

As was stated above, good and evil have definitions. You can't move the goalposts because of your feelz.

Anonymous Sam the Man November 04, 2016 2:44 PM  

Mighty Lou

Sin is literally "missing the mark"

All cultures/religions recognize that humans miss the mark in some form:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 2:47 PM  

"good and evil have definitions"

Really? What are they?

Anonymous Prof November 04, 2016 3:07 PM  

Washington Delenda Est. Raze the city, pull up the foundations, and salt the ground. Start again somewhere less evil. It was always a terrible place for a capital city.

Put heads on pikes.

As a veteran of the Clinton administration, I never saw anything like this coming, but nobody ever accused me of having a good people antennae either.

I do remember one gay friend hinting at some not kosher activities in the white house, but I thought he was just referring to some white house staff in the closet, which didn't shock or surprise.

Anonymous Sam the Man November 04, 2016 3:08 PM  

Evil:

that which is against the will of the Creator

Good

that which is in line with the will of the Creator.

Anonymous mature-Craig November 04, 2016 3:20 PM  

in my earlier comment on Stanish I was under the impression he was seeking to justify pedofilia....

if that is the case I stand by it.

if that is not the case I take it back

Anonymous Sestren November 04, 2016 3:20 PM  

"because you know in your heart it is wrong"

And there it is. If morality is ONLY what is beneficial to his clan and eliminating you and yours is becomes beneficial, then WHERE does this knowledge come from?

Anonymous Obviously hiding something November 04, 2016 3:21 PM  

one reason I left the USA was due to my momentary glimpse into the social circles of power there.

Oh, are you still denying that you left the US in order not to be prosecuted by the IRS?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 04, 2016 3:22 PM  

Stanish wrote:Good and evil isn't objective. Good and evil is what you believe is good and bad for your clan. This strikes me as so obvious that I'm shocked when others deny it in any way. It's as though the ignorance is deliberate.

The ignorance is deliberate all right. But it's not on their part.

Blogger Mighty Lou November 04, 2016 3:23 PM  

Sure all civilizations/societies have values based on a collective of examples of certain behaviors, thoughts and beliefs that are accepted as preferable for various reasons (most often those reason involve what is for the worst or best interest of the health and wealth of the society/culture), and you could argue that people within those cultures who do not live up to these examples have according to each particular culture sinned or missed the mark, and so relatively speaking, what is good and what is evil is whatever that particular culture has decided is good and evil. That would probably be the paradigm through which a humanist, atheist, sociologist would approach the problem of good and evil.

However, even within these separate societies we find that there are different subsets of standards that are applied differently towards different groups of people within those societies. I must add that in those societies, it is the usual practice to reward good and punish evil in order to encourage the good and discourage the evil.

And again speaking relatively, it seems that even within these societies, and I would take our society as an example, there seems to be different examples or standards of what is good and what is evil and these standards are not applied equally within the society. What I mean is that a common man in that society of no notable wealth, power and influence, would be severely punished for committing an act of what would be considered evil, while a person of a different class would not be. Ironically, in most of these societies, it seems that it is this other class of people, who are free from the punishment are the ones who enforce that punishment.

So, while looking at this dilemma as a member of that society it may seem unjust, but to an outside observer this may seem to be just another aspect of that societies culture.

This is because we see societies like this all over the world where the ruling class is held to a different standard than the class that is being ruled, only some societies, such as Saudi Arabia and North Korea do this explicitly, while others, such as ours practice this implicitly. So, whether implicit or explicit, how can we really make any sort of judgment on the wrong or right of any of this.

Are tyrants who rule out in the open any more or less evil than the tyrants who rule in the shadows, relatively speaking?

However, getting out of the realm of relativism, as a Christian, we acknowledge that there is ultimately one government among governments, one ruler among all rulers, a King of kings and a Lord of lords who reigns for ever and ever, and that this King has His own laws and definitions of good and evil which supersedes all of the rules and laws of all of these societies, and by using this King's standards we can judge these societies and determine if in fact they are good or evil. An as a global community, ruled under God, I would say that it is the responsibility of nations to first abide the universal laws given by this law giver, and even to bring to justice those nations who do not.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 3:42 PM  

"Evil:

that which is against the will of the Creator

Good

that which is in line with the will of the Creator."

I'm afraid I find this absurd. Still, knock yourself out.

Blogger Lew Rand November 04, 2016 3:47 PM  

Is it just me, or are people getting an Atlas Shrugged type vibe off this conversation?

Stanish, I'll pile on and say you contradicted yourself. You can't go on about relative morals and morals are clan based then believe that your clan will be able to influence the morals of any other clan.

Remember the Germans were law abiding peaceful people until they weren't... The Germans of today are about as brow beaten as they can get, but I shudder to think what might happen if they flip.

Blogger mary November 04, 2016 3:47 PM  

Have you seen Anne Barnhardt's gaze?

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2016 3:52 PM  

> You and your clan won't be changing your mind and decide to eliminate me and my type because you know in your heart it is wrong and because you know if you try, you will fail since you also know the vast majority of society would scorn you for your attempt to harm others.

Tell that to someone without family members related to the Hatfields and McCoys. You have no idea who you're dealing with.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 3:54 PM  

"You can't go on about relative morals and morals are clan based then believe that your clan will be able to influence the morals of any other clan."

Why?

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 3:57 PM  

"Tell that to someone without family members related to the Hatfields and McCoys. You have no idea who you're dealing with."

I have a pretty good idea: I'm dealing with an internet big talker.

Anonymous Sam the Man November 04, 2016 4:03 PM  

Stanish,

If you deny the creator/G-d, well of course you would reject that definition. You are a materialist.

If one accepts the idea of a Creator/G-D, then it is very obvious, The creator's will is good.

Here is one thing relativists have a problem explaining:

If all ethics/definitions of good and evil are merely self favoring abstractions of sentient beings (such as yourself), why do certain actions creep us out?

For example, the fellow who before he prepares his meal of chicken, goes to a great extent to torture the chicken to death over an extended period of time, because he likes the taste of lactic acid that it leaves in the meat and finds it to be fun? Why should that bother us, the chicken is dead either way, it has no soul, what does it matter?

But it would bother every single person unless they are a sociopath. Why?

Once you can figure that out you will have your answer, or at least be on your way.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 4:08 PM  

"But it would bother every single person unless they are a sociopath. Why?"

My guess would be that the response derives from an "empathy reflex" most all of us possess that likely derives from the fear "it could happen to me or my family"

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 4:23 PM  

"Stanish "and his clan" need no more justification for chucking 6 million Jews into ovens beyond that they like the smell of Long Pig BBQ."

The relativist is more than capable of explaining and justifying their ethics and morals. But they also understand that theirs and any one else's aren't derived from a one true God.

Blogger bob kek mando ( I are Spartacus ... and you can too! C'mon, give it a try, these crosses are way more comfy than they look ) November 04, 2016 4:24 PM  

188. Stanish November 04, 2016 4:15 PM
You might get jollies threatening it, but beyond that...Meh.



*shrugs*

according to your own claimed standard of morality ... i'm right to do so.

Anonymous Sam the Man November 04, 2016 4:26 PM  

Stanish,

Your answer lacks contemplation. Such an act would creep you out if it was s stranger or if it was your young daughter, whom could do no harm to you or any of your tribe. History is full of examples of folks such as the BTK fellow, who was no threat to any of his own church or clan, but only to others outside of the in group, yet for most the distaste would be worse if it were our close relative than a complete stranger.

Why would that be ?

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 4:37 PM  

"according to your own claimed standard of morality ... i'm right to do so."

No, according to my claim there is no objective standard of morality on which you can lean to call it right or wrong.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 04, 2016 4:44 PM  

@Stanish
Was Pol Pot evil?

Blogger James Dixon November 04, 2016 4:50 PM  

> I have a pretty good idea: I'm dealing with an internet big talker.

Really? What have I said I'll do?

But even if you're right, I'm only one of many. How many do you have to antagonize before your luck runs out?

> No, according to my claim there is no objective standard of morality on which you can lean to call it right or wrong.

By your claim there is a subjective one, and it's as valid as yours. In fact, if he wins, it's even more valid, as his clan was objectively superior to yours.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 4:51 PM  

"Was Pol Pot evil?"

Based on my conception of good and evil, he was or at least acted in a decidedly evil manner.

Anonymous Stanish November 04, 2016 4:59 PM  

"But even if you're right, I'm only one of many. How many do you have to antagonize before your luck runs out?"

Not many people are going to get antagonized over hearing someone state a moral philosophy, so I'm feeling ok.

"By your claim there is a subjective one, and it's as valid as yours. In fact, if he wins, it's even more valid, as his clan was objectively superior to yours."

There are many subjective claims to moral systems. The right question is how do you assess the value of different moral systems?

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