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Sunday, November 20, 2016

San Antonio shooting

Another policeman is murdered:
A detective was shot and killed while writing a traffic ticket outside of police headquarters late Sunday morning. San Antonio Police Chief William McManus identified the slain officer as 20-year veteran Detective Benjamin Marconi, 50. He said the suspect has not yet been apprehended, and a motive is not known.

McManus said Marconi had pulled over a car for a traffic violation outside Public Safety Headquarters in downtown. While Marconi was inside his squad car writing a ticket, a black vehicle pulled up behind him and the driver got out, walked up to the detective’s window and shot him in the head, McManus said. Then the suspect reached into the window and shot Marconi a second time, he said.
It's tragic. It's horrifying. But the grim reality is that this will not be the last such murder. Until the following steps are taken, expect more of the same:

  • Restore the pre-1965 American population demographics
  • Demilitarize the police
  • End the Drug War.
If you're not going to work towards, or support, any of those things, then Blue Lives really don't Matter to you. Sure, you can talk tough if you like, but no one has ever won a 4GW conflict that way.

Labels: ,

121 Comments:

Blogger James Dixon November 20, 2016 7:31 PM  

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be one of Trump's strong points. :( It looks like he's too much of a pro-cop law and order person to see the problems. I'd love to be wrong about that. Of course, he'll wind up having to cut some things if he wants to do everything he wants done, so maybe the war on drugs will be one of the casualties.

Blogger haus frau November 20, 2016 7:31 PM  

It is unfortunate but, realistically, I don't see the police responding be de-escalating. Marijuana prohibition is toning down but most people still support heavy enforcement of drug laws on all the harder drugs, for the children of course.

Anonymous Abbey November 20, 2016 7:35 PM  

Where do cops actually enforce pot laws?

Blogger Tom Kratman November 20, 2016 7:36 PM  

I believe I already gave a comprehensive program for demilitarizing the police. In any case, we can't get there directly; some things have to happen first.

Blogger Sun Xhu November 20, 2016 7:40 PM  

"McManus said the suspect is a black male around five-foot-seven to six feet in height, wearing a gray sweatshirt and black baggy pants. The suspect also has a beard."

Anonymous Cyclone Bob November 20, 2016 7:42 PM  

Drugs or no, niggers gonna nig.

Pre-65 must include Segregation. You can't employ Deputy Fifes where feral hominids are legally allowed to roam - and own the same firearms as Free White Men.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 20, 2016 7:45 PM  

Abbey
Where do cops actually enforce pot laws?

Where they want to imprison someone and don't have any actual crime to charge them with.

Blogger Casher O'Neill November 20, 2016 7:52 PM  

Those three points may not be simultaneously practicable. You harp on point 2 a lot, but I cannot see how point 1 (and correspondingly point 3) goes away without it at this point. It is the (frequent enough) harping on point 2 that I have a problem with. I'm sure there are some elements underlying Kratman's last remark that he & I agree on.

Blogger Casher O'Neill November 20, 2016 7:53 PM  

@3 They never did (to my knowledge) prior to legalization here in DC.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) November 20, 2016 7:53 PM  

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be one of Trump's strong points. :( It looks like he's too much of a pro-cop law and order person to see the problems.

It's not one of sessions' either

Blogger VD November 20, 2016 7:54 PM  

Those three points may not be simultaneously practicable. You harp on point 2 a lot, but I cannot see how point 1 (and correspondingly point 3) goes away without it at this point. It is the (frequent enough) harping on point 2 that I have a problem with.

Read the 4GW Handbook. Then get back to me with your opinion. You clearly don't understand how these things relate.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) November 20, 2016 7:54 PM  

Where do cops actually enforce pot laws?

No knock swat raids

Anonymous dagwood November 20, 2016 7:54 PM  

John Lennon was a greater songwriter than Franz Shubert!

Ahh, I'm just yankin' yer chain, to piss youse off.

Carry on with Present Discussion in Current Year.

cheers! -- jpz





Blogger Zaklog the Great November 20, 2016 7:55 PM  

A question I've had for a while. You've said American cops are very violent as compared with their European counterparts. How much of this do you think can be accounted for by the fact that American police have to deal with a racially diverse populous which exhibits different behaviors than an overwhelmingly white one does?

Blogger Casher O'Neill November 20, 2016 7:56 PM  

I never tire of pointing out that the cops are on our side (if we want them) in 4th gen war. (E.g., https://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legislation-Law-Enforcement/articles/6183787-PoliceOnes-Gun-Control-Survey-11-key-lessons-from-officers-perspectives/ ) After the war we can ask them to beat their swords into plowshares.

(SNL sort of noticed this in their bubble skit: ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/20/saturday-night-lives-bubble-skit-about-liberals-in-denial-over-trump-was-perfect/ )

Blogger Casher O'Neill November 20, 2016 7:58 PM  

@11 Read the 4GW Handbook. Then get back to me with your opinion. You clearly don't understand how these things relate.

I've read it and a lot on it back when it was called irregular warfare.

Anonymous Cato the Elder November 20, 2016 8:00 PM  

His Twitter-feed shows him to be very pro Trump. Solid guy. Sad.

Blogger rumpole5 November 20, 2016 8:02 PM  

I'm not sure that "restoring the pre 1965 demographics" will help. It was a "white" Irish catholic politician, Senator Edward Kennedy, who got us into the third world demographic mess we are in now. How about restoring the pre Irish potato famine American demographics. I think that the 19th century "Know Nothing" party was right. We have been demographically screwed for responsible republican citizenship since the 1850s.

Blogger Casher O'Neill November 20, 2016 8:03 PM  

@11 Just a thought: you may consider republishing this.

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-irregular-warfare-military-phenomenon/dp/0933488491

Anonymous Down and Out in... November 20, 2016 8:06 PM  

@18 rumpole5

TRANSLATION: Wow, I am a completely stooopid f@cking idiot.

Anonymous BGKB November 20, 2016 8:06 PM  

We know the color of the vehicle but nothing about the shooter.

OT: TRUMP SHITLORDING Hamilton play Sends Steve Bannon
https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/800130330032275456

Anonymous Bobby Farr November 20, 2016 8:09 PM  

@18 you dream big but just getting back to 1965 is a big enough chore for now. And as shown in the election, we will need the support of ethnic whites, esp in the rust belt, to get there.

Blogger Sun Xhu November 20, 2016 8:10 PM  

@21 You have to go a couple articles deep to see it: @5 is a quote from the original report.

Anonymous Bobby Farr November 20, 2016 8:12 PM  

@21 I am not sure if I should celebrate or cringe but I can't help but be glad Trump is tweeting again.

Anonymous #8601 November 20, 2016 8:12 PM  

If there are readers of this blog who are close to Mr. Trump, and I believe there are (hi Don Jr.) please but a copy of the 4GW Handbook in his hands (which are yuge, BTW).

Blogger Elder Son November 20, 2016 8:13 PM  

Pot arrests outnumber those for violent crimes.

And I personally could care less about what if cop surveys on guns. Fact is, own and/or carry in anyway "illegal" way and cops will harass and arrest you.

Blogger Elder Son November 20, 2016 8:14 PM  

P.S. Hell, they harass and/or arrest for the "legal". Because, flaunting rights.

Anonymous kfg November 20, 2016 8:20 PM  

"The suspect also has a beard."

Had.

Blogger rumpole5 November 20, 2016 8:23 PM  

The stupid idiots are the simpletons who reduce our problem to a "white - nonwhite" issue. It is much more complex than that.

The very reason we HAVE drug laws and militarized police here is because we have so many citizens who are culturally (and genetically?) unable to understand the proper roles of responsible citizenship and limited government. Many, many of them are "east of the Hajnal line" whites. They are predisposed to despotism, and they are getting despotism.

Anonymous Just another commenter November 20, 2016 8:24 PM  

*Scratched chin*
*ponder, ponder, ponder*

End asset forfeiture for drug violations;
add civil forfeiture for illegal immigrant status;
make end-user drug possession a simple fine;
make drug dealing a larger fine and community service;
make illegal immigrant employment and trafficking illegal immigrants a very large fine or hard time;
reduce the barriers to hiring casual labor and unskilled workers;
make being available, and performing, casual labor or unskilled work a condition of government benefits.

Change the incentives -> change the behavior

Blogger Tom Kratman November 20, 2016 8:32 PM  

Not exactly. You have to change the incentives _enough_ and have the political and memetic wherewithal to make those changes.

Blogger AdognamedOp November 20, 2016 8:36 PM  

After that Baltimore incident last year I told my Neighbor watch and see, cops will be killed regularly. Not a prediction I'm proud of but not hard to predict.
I didn't read the 4g handbook but it seems the groups most responsible for cop killings was here long before the 65' immig bill.

Blogger Unknown November 20, 2016 8:42 PM  

The drug war is another hold over from the nineteen teens that needs to be taken out back and shot. Just like the 16th and 17th Amendments.
No greater vehicle for the loss of our individual freedoms has ever been designed or conceived than the War on Some Drugs. Unfortunately, there is billions of dollars tied up in it's perpetuation, so I don't think there is any chance of it going away in our lifetimes.

Anonymous Wyrd November 20, 2016 8:42 PM  

OT: TRUMP SHITLORDING Hamilton play Sends Steve Bannon
https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/800130330032275456


Who was Sulu blowing in the TOS? I'm thinking Chekov or Scotty.

Anonymous kfg November 20, 2016 8:52 PM  

What The Donald tweeted before sending Bannon to the play:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/799974635274194947

Blogger John rockwell November 20, 2016 8:54 PM  

Something worth a look:
http://freenortherner.com/2015/01/16/abolish-prison/

It will be much improved if alot of prison gets replaced by beatings and fines for the less grevious crimes, hard labor for fines unable or unwilling to pay. And execution for the worst of crime.

No more breeding grounds for gangs and terrorists.

Anonymous Greg November 20, 2016 8:54 PM  

@35

Of course the neocon Charles Johnson doesn't get the joke.

Blogger Patrick Wilson November 20, 2016 8:58 PM  

amen,the drug war and open borders have been an aberration since I was a lad.

Anonymous kfg November 20, 2016 8:58 PM  

My favorite satanist (erstwhile LaVeyan) explaining the joke to the aspies, and he hadn't heard about the Bannon follow up yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v_R24ih4-c

Blogger Wishing Star November 20, 2016 8:59 PM  

Cyclone Bob wrote:Drugs or no, niggers gonna nig.

Pre-65 must include Segregation. You can't employ Deputy Fifes where feral hominids are legally allowed to roam - and own the same firearms as Free White Men.


You act like your any better. Based on how you express yourself, you would probably be digging ditches or knocking over stage coaches with these people back in the day.

Just when I think my spiritual walk is getting better.

Blogger tz November 20, 2016 9:28 PM  

Train police to de-escalate instead of instilling paranoia.
Don't use police as a source of revenue.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer November 20, 2016 9:31 PM  

Vox is right on all three points.

I think immunity is a problem with cops. When they murder someone, they get put on paid vacation. Then their buddy at the prosecutors office blows the grand jury who somehow..wink wink.. fails to return a true bill. This does not promote respect for the law. It is like Hillary Clinton. A different set of rules fir them. Infact there is a different set if rules called the policements bill of rights. Extra rights that you serfs dont get to exercise.

I say get rid of immunity and make cops get insurance just like any other professional.

Oh and Idaho enforces their marijuana laws.

Anonymous Marvin Boggs November 20, 2016 9:39 PM  

When I started trying to lose weight, one of the most helpful things I read was:
"It took you a long time to get fat, it'll take you a long time to get thin."

Our society has been going south since (at least) some time in the '60s. We won't fix everything in the next 4 years. But we can make a good start.

Blogger Retrenched November 20, 2016 9:41 PM  

Pat Dollard is reporting that the cop killer is a black male.

http://www.patdollard.com/person-of-color-assassinates-white-san-antonio-police-officer-as-cops-targeted-by-blacks-across-the-country

Anonymous Jack Amok November 20, 2016 9:44 PM  

Train police to de-escalate instead of instilling paranoia.
Don't use police as a source of revenue.


Agree on both points. This guy was a detective and he got shot while writing a traffic ticket? (totally separate from the question of police, we have a screwed up sense of traffic design - we build roads that scream "50 mph" and slap a "35 mph" sign on them because we expect pedestrians to walk across them).

A co-worker of mine suggested a "reverse three-strikes" law. Any law that doesn't carry a life sentence for three violations can't be enforced by armed police. They're only there for things that are serious problems for society, and if a problem is serious, then someone who can't learn not to cause it should be locked up.

Blogger Orville November 20, 2016 9:52 PM  

It is being reported that AG Sessions is pot friendly, legally speaking, and would rather those decisions be made at the state level. So maybe Trump will Make Pot Great Again #MPGA.

Blogger Jew613 November 20, 2016 9:53 PM  

VD, back in Minnesota were the police militarized or peace officers?

Blogger allyn71 November 20, 2016 9:53 PM  

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there is a Soros' funded black militant ring operating in Texas. The Dallas guy was a trained operative that probably wasn't solo. Now this guy. It is part of their plan to cause civil unrest. This is done to increase hostilities and inflame passions, battle lines are being drawn.

Anonymous Greg November 20, 2016 10:00 PM  

@48

"The Dallas guy was a trained operative that probably wasn't solo."

Was he not ex-army?

Blogger Elder Son November 20, 2016 10:11 PM  

@48 No one needs to be a trained operative to pull this off. Just some situational awareness. And balls.

Blogger allyn71 November 20, 2016 10:16 PM  

@49 Greg

Yeah but it wasn't in a combat MOS. He was a reservist Carpentry and Masonry Specialist (MOS 12W). He showed advanced tactical skills that indicated he may have received post-service training. He also was known to have had ties to the Nation of Islam.

I have nothing to offer besides speculation but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there was some sort of Soros' supported Black Militant ring in Texas training and conducting operations.

Anonymous BGKB November 20, 2016 10:16 PM  

Who was Sulu blowing in the TOS? I'm thinking Chekov or Scotty.

He married his longtime agent.

explaining the joke to the aspies, and he hadn't heard about the Bannon follow up yet:

So many leftist sites still don't get it.

Anonymous Just another commenter November 20, 2016 10:19 PM  

@39 -I like it. Love the comments.
"Trump Tzu writes The Art of Trolling.

Blogger Fenris Wulf November 20, 2016 10:21 PM  

Ending drug prohibition will empty out the prisons to some extent, if you include all the related gang violence. But it won't change the demographics much. Dindus will still ook about institutional racism, and they won't stop until they get de facto racial quotas. It's already happening under Obama, with the DOJ and DOE telling public schools that they're not allowed to discipline violent black students.

What really infuriates dindus is the humiliation of being ruled by a white majority. That's why they have riots when human kills ape, but not when ape kills ape. "Black Lives Matter" isn't hypocritical as some people believe, it's perfectly valid from a tribal standpoint.

Personally, I think blacks have a right to live under a legal system that reflects their culture. Let them rape, rob, and murder each other all they want, but God help them if they touch a white person.

Blogger allyn71 November 20, 2016 10:22 PM  

@50 I agree no one needs special training to pull up next to a cop car and shoot a guy. But you have to be looking for a target of opportunity and a desire to do it.

To me it is seems like there are a cluster of these attacks in the South (Texas and Louisiana) where blacks are specifically looking for opportunities to kill cops, specifically white cops, and are setting up ambushes or in this case taking advantage of an ad hoc ambush.

I don't have any proof and it is just speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that somehow it was all tied back to Soros' money. After the Podesta emails and all the wikileaks do you think that type of activity is outside the realm of possibility?

Blogger Kona Commuter November 20, 2016 10:24 PM  

I have zero trouble believing that there is an organised attempt to destabilise the US.

They'd be playing a dangerous game if they are. After all a destabilised nuclear power isn't something anyone needs

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey November 20, 2016 10:25 PM  

Rumpole5
"It was a "white" Irish catholic politician, Senator Edward Kennedy"

Hey, let's not forget (((Celler))) and (((Javits))). Kennedy was a junior senator at the time; Celler had worked for 40 years to get the borders opened. Kevin MacDonald has a good piece (a chapter in "The Culture of Critique," I believe), on the history of open-borders advocacy in the US between the 1920s and the Hart-Celler Act.

That said, yeah, Ted was a sellout, and the Irish immigrants were a significant change from the founding population of the US.

Blogger Lazarus November 20, 2016 10:26 PM  

Fenris Wulf wrote:What really infuriates dindus is the humiliation of being ruled by a white majority.

No, they like being ruled by a white majority that can keep some kind of lid on their AND their fellow Dindu's behavioral excesses. It is when the white majority gets wobbly about it that they get scared and act out.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey November 20, 2016 10:30 PM  

Kfg
"What The Donald tweeted before sending Bannon to the play"

Heh. Look at the responses. They still don't get this trolling thing, do they?

Blogger Fenris Wulf November 20, 2016 10:30 PM  

We can't win with them. If we don't protect them from criminals, we're racist. If we do protect them from criminals, we're racist.

That's why the future white ethnostate will turn away blacks at the border. Because we wouldn't want to be guilty of oppressing them.

I think white people would agree to a very generous divorce settlement in which blacks get 15% of the country's land and 15% of the wealth, just to get rid of them.

Blogger Lazarus November 20, 2016 10:30 PM  

Wyrd wrote:Who was Sulu blowing in the TOS? I'm thinking Chekov or Scotty.

It cannae take anymore, Sulu, its gonna blow!

Anonymous BGKB November 20, 2016 10:30 PM  

Massive protest planned for Monday NYC
A massive protest is planned on Monday at 5 pm ET at Donald Trump’s Soho NYC hotel to demand that Trump’s appointment of racist, homophobic, misogynist anti-Semite, admitted white nationalist Steve Bannon as Chief Strategist be withdrawn....
Join Gays Against Guns in this protest to tell Trump and the world that a WHITE SUPREMACIST in the WHITE HOUSE is UNACCEPTABLE.

Of all the groups to organize, I guess it could be worse like the Pink Tie Pedostra Pizza Party.

Blogger Lazarus November 20, 2016 10:32 PM  

Fenris Wulf wrote:I think white people would agree to a very generous divorce settlement in which blacks get 15% of the country's land and 15% of the wealth, just to get rid of them.

And when they blow through that, they will be knockin on the door.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey November 20, 2016 10:34 PM  

Centralization of police power is a trend to watch for at least as much, if not more, than militarization of police.

Blogger wreckage November 20, 2016 10:46 PM  

@39. Exactly. Have a look at all Trump's "stupid promises". Note how each sets him up in a strong negotiating position for he others. He goes to the table from a position of dominance; he's already defined the terms of the contest.

And it's been demonstrated that his "stupid promises" are actually not too hard to fulfill with some lateral thinking

(Mexico is going to pay for it? Well, yes, when we tax the outgoing dollars, or when they have to renegotiate the NAFTA deal their economy utterly depends on, under threat of getting locked out of the entire TPP as well... so yes. They're going to pay for it and smile the whole time because he COULD make them pay 3 times over and he has a clear mandate to do so.)

The thing is Trump isn't a genius. He's just not a congenitally brain damaged Washington-sheltered-workshop retard. He's a skilled player in a room full of people who don't know what a skilled player looks like.

Do I like Trump as a person? Probably not. But I don't have to like a hand-grenade *as a person* to enjoy watching it tossed into the enemy trenches.

Anonymous Laz November 20, 2016 10:59 PM  

"Where do cops actually enforce pot laws?"

Most definitely Texas. Other states I've lived in they didn't really bother with personal amounts.

"No knock swat raids"

Several years ago we a had a rookie cop in Waco who was killed when he was the first guy in the door. He's serving 4 years for growing pot but the grand jury no-billed him on killing the cop because no-knock.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 20, 2016 11:09 PM  

Casher:

It was here: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2014/07/hiding-behind-girl.html?commentPage=2#c3528116411978537829 later expanded on, much to the psychic pain of those who deserve psychic pain, here: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-holistic-solution.html

I rather enjoyed the whole thing, really.

Blogger Elder Son November 20, 2016 11:55 PM  

Re: Cops. Look up "Strong Cities Network". Let's just face the fact that not only are cops going to become more militarized, but federalized as well. Then we can also look for more-more technological "Law Enforcement Tools". All to better serve us. We have 200 plus years of laws, codes, regulations, statutes, and etc. that tells us all that there is no laws cops won't enforce, and no interpretation of any of the 10 amendments that they will not go along with.

@66 Once again, pot arrests outnumber those for violent offenses. I laugh at my local SBCSD every time they make a pot bust and display it as if they have saved the world. It doesn't even put a pinch in the pot trade.

Blogger Escoffier November 20, 2016 11:57 PM  

Fenris Wulf wrote:We can't win with them. If we don't protect them from criminals, we're racist. If we do protect them from criminals, we're racist.

That's why the future white ethnostate will turn away blacks at the border. Because we wouldn't want to be guilty of oppressing them.

I think white people would agree to a very generous divorce settlement in which blacks get 15% of the country's land and 15% of the wealth, just to get rid of them.


So long as it's not in the Continental U.S. I would second that emotion!

Not for nothing but I think ya'll should recalibrate your 'what is possible' phasers. Trump won, he won doubling down on build the wall and being more than a little bit of a shitlord. The right answer to this question is the shiniest spiffiest Liberia 2 that anyone could ask for. And when they start eating each other we don't answer the phone.

Anonymous Grinder November 21, 2016 12:00 AM  

There is much to do. To get ahead of the demographic timebomb there must be mass roundups and expulsions of illegals and jailings of those who hire them wherever there is a means available to verify legal status. The power of (((Hollyweird))) and (((MSM))) must be broken and countered with positive white civ friendly programming. Blacks need to be suppressed vigorously. The drug laws are a means to disarm blacks or as a convenient excuse to imprison them but the prisons must be made more economical to operate. Federal overreach of the past century+ comes in handy now to help pull the country back from the cliff edge exacerbated by urban liberal progressive strongholds. The SCOTUS is the last key. The police should be militarized in non-white areas and demilitarized in white areas. In white areas, the police need to be told that they are merely a dedicated resource to law enforcement and they should have no power that isn't available to law abiding whites. With the right attitude, police will have high support in white areas. Black or Hispanic, and hence, problem areas should be policed by the same race as the inhabitants who can determine the best approach themselves. They will still be overseen by senior officers who will be responsible for their detachments being honest and law abiding. Whites who commit no other offense than drug possession should be left alone. If they commit crimes to support their habits then they should be imprisoned and treated there. Trump needs to not delay in bringing back jobs for the law abiding who are struggling to pay their bills. Close most bases around the globe, cut the defense budget and use the savings for domestic policy. Four years goes by fast so there is no time to waste. The first year should focus on draining the swamp and staffing key positions wisely. Congress is unreliable as yet. Trump shoulduse any means to get past their uselessness and treason of the past 30+yrs.

Blogger Elder Son November 21, 2016 12:06 AM  

Good news. We all have 4 years to test drive Donald Trump. Bad news, he may test drive us.

Anonymous Grinder November 21, 2016 12:07 AM  

@69 I have considered this to some extent. In the interest of what is feasible perhaps a territory within the continental US could be parted with conditions as to what a black nation could do externally such as, they could not give up their territory to any other nation other than USA and could not host foreign military bases. Blacks being what they are, without white handouts and technical help, they will become an economic and sociopolitical basket case and whites could then buy territory back in parcels in exchange for the handouts that they will need. This is the way white countries should recolonize Africa instead of just handing money over to the bottomless pit of black kleptocracies.

Anonymous Francois November 21, 2016 12:10 AM  

"Restore the pre-1965 American population demographics"

I"m curious....Does anyone really believe this is going to happen?

Anonymous Grinder November 21, 2016 12:11 AM  

@ Elder Son - that just means that we are left with plan B. Stockpile now.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch November 21, 2016 12:13 AM  

Just change the culture.

Anonymous Die Fledermaus November 21, 2016 12:14 AM  

There are two ways exactly to end the drug war. One is to treat it like an actual war and kill the traffickers and users, and the other is to just stop it. You can't "half fight" a war.

Anonymous Just another commenter November 21, 2016 12:25 AM  

@70 Why do the hard work when you can incentivize them to do it themselves. You don't need to "round them up," just taper the gravy-train off, and loosen up the labor laws. People will either move out on their own or get with the program and start to earn a living for themselves, generate a little honestly-won self-respect, and they'll take care of themselves.

Anonymous DissidentRight November 21, 2016 12:31 AM  

One can summarize the core anti-4GW strategy in a single sentence: Either kill them all or don't kill anyone.

...

• Restore the pre-1965 American population demographics
• Demilitarize the police
• End the Drug War.


I guess strategy 1 is where we are headed, then. Unless minority groups magically come to their senses in a huge hurry.

Blogger cheddarman November 21, 2016 12:34 AM  

I wonder how much collaboration goes on between the big fish in the drug trade and the higher ups in law enforcement agencies, where the drug lords buy protection for their operations, like in the movie "Scarface". I would think that the Law could shut down much of the drug trade quickly if they wanted to do so.

Anonymous Luke November 21, 2016 1:00 AM  

72. Grinder November 21, 2016 12:07 AM
"@69 I have considered this to some extent. In the interest of what is feasible perhaps a territory within the continental US could be parted with conditions as to what a black nation could do externally such as, they could not give up their territory to any other nation other than USA and could not host foreign military bases. Blacks being what they are, without white handouts and technical help, they will become an economic and sociopolitical basket case and whites could then buy territory back in parcels in exchange for the handouts that they will need. This is the way white countries should recolonize Africa instead of just handing money over to the bottomless pit of black kleptocracies."

This has already been tested to the point of conclusive results in Africa, Detroit, and numerous other super-majority-black inner cities. WITH lots of help, those places become sh*tholes, and without help, worse than sh*tholes. If you haven't read Kim du Toit's classic short essay about black culture, I highly recommend it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/924795/posts?page=5

Cathy Buckle's "News From zimbabwe" http://cathybuckle.com/ and Alan Paton's widow's essay "Fly The Beloved Country" are worth a look as well.

Anonymous Mr. Rational November 21, 2016 1:25 AM  

Zaklog the Great wrote:ou've said American cops are very violent as compared with their European counterparts. How much of this do you think can be accounted for by the fact that American police have to deal with a racially diverse populous
You mean, like this?

BTW, you mean "populace".

Lazarus wrote:when they blow through that, they will be knockin on the door.
Then we offer to give them cash and transport to Liberia in return for land.  Actually, that should be the first offer.  No Black felons released save to Africa, require transport for EBT and housing vouchers, etc.

Grinder wrote:Black or Hispanic, and hence, problem areas should be policed by the same race as the inhabitants who can determine the best approach themselves.
What you get is gang members "policing" their own and covering for attacks on other tribes.  Not just no, but hell no.

@77 Loosening labor laws doesn't help when so many occupations are being automated out of existence.  Amazon has eliminated forklift drivers with their Kiva robots, and may soon eliminate the packers as well.  Japan has "lights-out factories".  Accounting and legal discovery are being done by software packages.  When all but the most abstruse jobs are automated, what's left for most people to do that is worth even minimum wage?

Blogger synp November 21, 2016 2:12 AM  

BGKB wrote:Massive protest planned for Monday NYC

A massive protest is planned on Monday at 5 pm ET at Donald Trump’s Soho NYC hotel to demand that Trump’s appointment of racist, homophobic, misogynist anti-Semite, admitted white nationalist Steve Bannon as Chief Strategist be withdrawn....

Join Gays Against Guns in this protest to tell Trump and the world that a WHITE SUPREMACIST in the WHITE HOUSE is UNACCEPTABLE.


Would it run afoul of the first amendment if Congress was to pass a bill limiting strings of adjectives to no more than two or three?

Also, I've got a great idea for a new product. An "SJW rosary" (or SJW Misbaha) that can be used by offended Catholics and Muslims to count out the failings of their oppressors: racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, anti-semitic, transphobic, biphobic, white supremacist... I've probably missed some.

Anonymous map November 21, 2016 2:15 AM  

I used to be someone who was against the drug war and I used to fully believe that drugs should be legalized.

I have since changed my tune.

I think there is real blind spot among libertarians regarding drugs. Legalizing drugs will makes things infinitely worse because drug gangs are killing each other over maintaining monopolies on territories, not because the drugs are illegal. Legalizing drugs is not going to change the incentives to kill each other over territories.

There is an even further problem. The modern-day drugs business was created by criminals, who are willing and able to use violence. Consequently, you are not going to get competition that will somehow reduce the "profitabilty" of drug-selling.

The net result is that legalizing drugs will entrench the criminal gangs in the business, will cause a massive increase in gang killings, and will make policing nearly impossible.

Blogger wreckage November 21, 2016 2:38 AM  

@83, except that with decriminalization, what you predicted hasn't happened, and what the libertarians predicted has.

The correlation isn't perfect but it's fairly consistent.

Criminals aren't smart or competitive. In an actual market they get undercut, usually overnight, and out-competed by people who understand markets, supply chains, and logistics; people who aren't criminals because there's not enough money in it.

And suddenly, instead of jail time being a valuable networking opportunity, every day you're behind bars you lose market share and you lose contacts. Violence, instead of bringing notoriety and prestige, gets you shunned. The entire social and business model changes. It isn't perfect, but it is far more destructive to the violent criminal enterprises than the cops are.

Blogger Badger Brigadon November 21, 2016 3:14 AM  

@84-
All drugs are not created equal.
By all means legalize buzzers and non-addictive substances if you like. But when it comes to Opiates and substances with similarly physically addictive properties, especially those that utterly destroy bodies, You CANNOT treat them like alcohol or weed.

By all means end the war on drugs... but only if you are willing to introduce a Malthusian solution to Opiate abuse.

It would be much cheaper, though.

Blogger Badger Brigadon November 21, 2016 3:21 AM  

The trick is 'addict and restrict'. The reason Prohibition was utterly doomed was because just about every vegetable substance known to man is capable of being converted to alcohol.. all that is required is water and naturally occuring yeasts in the air.
But with opiates, Legalizing them means that many, many more people can be induced into addiction... and Opium poppies CAN be restricted and monopolized.
Legalizing opiates would lead to criminal monopolies the likes of which the west has never experienced or dealt with before. It is a phenomenally stupid idea.

OpenID anonymos-coward November 21, 2016 3:28 AM  

End the Drug War

Won't work. The narcotics industry is an MLM racket, to fight drug epidemics you need to go after the distribution and marketing channels.

Look at China and Russia, two countries that have successfully won the 'drug war'.

(Rank-and-file drug addicts will be the casualties, but they're already dead people walking anyways.)

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 21, 2016 3:51 AM  

Destroy meth. Go hard on heroin. (And other opiates.) Educate the would-be psychedelics why that's stupid. Let pot go.

I'm open to correction, and I believe this is common sense.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 21, 2016 3:59 AM  

I don't know enough about cocaine or E to say.

Anonymous Bz November 21, 2016 4:09 AM  

The "War on Drugs" is just a source of revenue, patronage and good government jobs, as far as I can tell. Like so often with government activity ("War on Poverty"), we are not seeing a solution but something that can be gardened to occasionally bloom but never disappear.

Legalizing marijuana should be kept as a tactical tool for Trump. He can kill the Libertarian party in one stroke of the pen, if need be. Because they are pothead strategists.

However, I believe legalization in practice is a bad solution in the longer term. It's simply unhealthy for the community, as we can see today with rural whites dying in droves addicted to prescription heroin. In China, this led to the Opium Wars. Last time I checked, Thailand kept the lid on by the death penalty. In the Philippines, they now have Duterte Harry and death squads to clean up. The same thing will happen in the US once they actually have to solve the problem, rather than garden it into many nice well funded retirements. (Or weird ideological false flag ops, like Obama and Holder's Fast and Furious.)

Also, legalization will drive out the black and mexican sellers and instead put the drugs in Walgreens, and/or drone delivery by one of the hundred Silicon Valley VC startups working on weed. Great times ahead, one supposes, but what will the blacks do once they can't even sell drugs on the corner? (Though if America gets to grips with its great hunger for getting high, they will of course have to adapt regardless.)

Blogger clk November 21, 2016 6:32 AM  

"Demilitarize the police
End the Drug War."

So the recommendation is unconditional surrender... one of the things you have to protect against is making policy based on how you wish things are vs how they really exist.... I appreciate your history with law enforcement but right now, thats unimportant.

You cannot disarm the police at this time .. who would step in, a bunch of fat gun nuts militias, the miltary.... no... for the time being the police will be your friend and will be the ones standing between you and your enemies... it would take 20 years for society to transform from where it is TO where it's going before you could change the police to something more benign... for the time being, theres a pile of trouble heading this way and unfortunately the cops will need bigger guns and more bullets... its the lesser of 2 evils.

Blogger clk November 21, 2016 6:36 AM  

Certainly legalize pot... if booze, tobacco and chocolate is legal, theres no reason why pot shouldnt be legal... althought you need to limit thc levels... its no longer the pot of your college days...

Blogger Stilicho November 21, 2016 6:45 AM  

Clk, what, exactly do you think US police are protecting the citizens from?

OpenID basementhomebrewer November 21, 2016 7:16 AM  

Bz wrote:The "War on Drugs" is just a source of revenue, patronage and good government jobs, as far as I can tell. Like so often with government activity ("War on Poverty"), we are not seeing a solution but something that can be gardened to occasionally bloom but never disappear.

Legalizing marijuana should be kept as a tactical tool for Trump. He can kill the Libertarian party in one stroke of the pen, if need be. Because they are pothead strategists.

However, I believe legalization in practice is a bad solution in the longer term. It's simply unhealthy for the community, as we can see today with rural whites dying in droves addicted to prescription heroin. In China, this led to the Opium Wars. Last time I checked, Thailand kept the lid on by the death penalty. In the Philippines, they now have Duterte Harry and death squads to clean up. The same thing will happen in the US once they actually have to solve the problem, rather than garden it into many nice well funded retirements. (Or weird ideological false flag ops, like Obama and Holder's Fast and Furious.)

Also, legalization will drive out the black and mexican sellers and instead put the drugs in Walgreens, and/or drone delivery by one of the hundred Silicon Valley VC startups working on weed. Great times ahead, one supposes, but what will the blacks do once they can't even sell drugs on the corner? (Though if America gets to grips with its great hunger for getting high, they will of course have to adapt regardless.)


I think this covers the root of everything.

1.) The police aren't serious about eliminating the drug trade.

This was easily observed here in Cincinnati when fentanyl showed up in the heroin supply. The local police rolled out the real enforcement units and that problem disappeared in a couple weeks.

2.) Policy makers are likely worried about what drug gangs would do instead of dealing drugs if they are forced out of the market through legalization.

This again can be observed because marijuana legalization didn't start gaining traction until it was clear that gangs moved onto heroin and meth as their cash cows.

Anonymous Bellator Mortalis November 21, 2016 7:22 AM  

Assuming the wall is built (combination of actual wall plus fencing, heavy use of drones and rapid response forces for drone sightings of attempted border infiltration) and much of the non-pot drug traffic goes away.

Anonymous Ironsides November 21, 2016 7:23 AM  

Stilicho wrote:Clk, what, exactly do you think US police are protecting the citizens from?

Dindus, presumably. The eternal google. The Brethren of St. Trayvon of Skittles. The building-torching, old-white-person-burning, raping, murdering pavement apes who are currently mostly confined to their Golgothic "hoods."

I'm personally not sure whether it's the police or the fear of AR-15 wielding "crackers" or simple laziness that keeps the groids confined in this manner, though I suspect that it's a mix of all three. But considering that I don't see the police pounding on white people much, and that most of them are in favor of private gun ownership (the last argument of the white man against tyranny) I have some inclination to agree with clk.

The leftists and Obongo have been frantically assailing the cops as "hate-filled racists" for years now. This suggests that the cops must be doing something right. And now they're under literal attack from dindus, shot down constantly by commie googles out to "kill Whitey," and the alt-right's response is, "we've got to disarm the cops"? Does not compute.

Blogger endwatcher November 21, 2016 7:43 AM  

Step one establish a media paradigm where black and Hispanic pan criminality are on complete display to the American public.

The moral level of war is already won, you just need to show it.

This isn't a cop vs average citizen conflict, it is a race war. Druggies only get in the way because by being druggies they side with black and brown by default.

You can't demilitarise the police until the culture changes in favor of order. I agree with pre 65 demos in theory but it will require horror to get there now. We will simply have to be an object lesson to a better future civilization, if one can be built.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy November 21, 2016 7:47 AM  

Stilicho wrote:Clk, what, exactly do you think US police are protecting the citizens from?
WASP vigilantes, of course.

The police exist to protect criminals from punishment now. And to collect revenue from people who aren't sufficiently criminal.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 21, 2016 8:13 AM  

Ironsides wrote:But considering that I don't see the police pounding on white people much,

They pound on whites just as much, it just doesn't get the air play that pounding on minorities gets.

The cops are not our friends. Like has been said, it is a race war, but the cops are blue, not white.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 21, 2016 8:18 AM  

For half of our history you could buy any drug you wanted over the counter.


Opiates were widely distributed.

The junkie with a needle in his arm is no threat to me or mine. The cop with a no knock warrant and a machine gun is.

Blogger clk November 21, 2016 8:47 AM  

"Clk, what, exactly do you think US police are protecting the citizens from?"

(1) Its more a future state I am worried about than the present.. as you move forward you agenda to make a white, nationalist society, they will be a few that feel left out or opposed...and they have lots of guns too ...

(2) This Christian society is still going to have laws and it will not due to have it enforced via vigilantes -- that would be inconsistent with the rights of all Englishmen under common laws... there will be a court, there will be laws, and there will be those that feel the laws are not for them. There will be crime and that necessitates justice..

Dont get me wrong -- the majority of cops I know (including those in my own family) are assholes; and they spend way too much time enforcing things that are not crimes and not enough time dealing with real crimes (I guess it is easier to give out tickets than catch murderers and rapists) -- but just look at the riots that happened already - 1 week into Trump ... if he does 1/2 of what he has promised, there will be more ... while I am prepared to protect my family during such times, you have to view it as last ditch -- the first line will be the police in all practical scenarios...

Dont ever assume that the police are their to protect individuals, because se that is not their job .. that's your job... but for the general things, manning the check point, standing between rioters and your town - there will be a sherriff, constable, cop what ever... and when doing that, they will carry a weapon that is equivalent to what the criminals might have..

Blogger Stilicho November 21, 2016 9:00 AM  

Clk, if they limited themselves to the roles you envision, few would have a problem with them but they don't and won't. So we are left with a bunch of up-armored Barney Fifes desperately trying to prove that they are tough while doing very little that is worthwhile. We need more sheriff Andy and a lot less Barney. We didn't need these ravening hordes of tax collectors with badges 60 years ago (despite the problematic black population) and we don't need them today.

OpenID anonymos-coward November 21, 2016 9:01 AM  

The junkie with a needle in his arm is no threat to me or mine.

We (i.e., humanity) have tried opiate legalization before, in Qing China. It was a horrific disaster unlike anything seen before or after.

Remember that the narcotic industry is an MLM racket: it's only profitable as long as new addicts are constantly created, and once you're addicted then the only way to sustain the addiction is by drawing in new addicts.

Infer what that scheme does to society in the long run for yourself.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 21, 2016 9:56 AM  

anonymos-coward wrote:We (i.e., humanity) have tried opiate legalization before, in Qing China. It was a horrific disaster unlike anything seen before or after.

Opiates were legal in the US for much of our history. Morphine/alcohol mixtures were even marketed to parents in order to "soothe your fussy child". I don't remember reading about the "horrific disaster" we had in the US in the late 1800's and early 1900's.

You have just swallowed the drug warrior propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

Anonymous Don't like druggies November 21, 2016 10:55 AM  

Execute drug dealers? Dries up market

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 21, 2016 11:09 AM  

Yes, it's an example of 4GW. It's not the war some here seem to think it is though, which could best be charaterized as a moronic juvenile Libertarian pipe-dream of a general popular uprising against a police who've become above the rule of law (except when a dindu dies), over-militarized (war on drugs), made worse by the colonization of the USSA by the third world.

The business of only holding police accountable for their actions when such actions are taken against criminal negroes (note that Darren Wilson is no longer in law enforcement, even though the killing of St. Swisher the Sweet was completely justified) is clearly a problem. It is only secondarily a problem of the local police themselves and primarily one of laws and courts which are owned by the SJWs and their cuck allies. The same can be said for the over-militarized police and the relaxed hiring standards (another result of court-decrees that negroes and laws don't have to pass the qualifications) plus the property-seizure and no-knock laws and decrees (again put in place by the same folks who brought you the 1965 immigration act).

We haven't been seeing the FBI, DHS, DEA, IRS, BATFE and other grunts in the numerous federal goon squads (whose criminality and unaccountability is several orders of magnatude worse than even the most corrupt local gendarmerie) being killed at random by outraged citizens over their unending string of murders and abuses, have we?

The 4G war in play here is a long-standing one which has been simmering for six deacdes with the full coverup of the (((media))), the SJW-owned courts and legal system: the dirty-war of murder and rape being waged by dindus (who were here in 1965) against whites. With the generous funding of (((Soros))), dindu foot-soldiers are now so bold that they're going up against armed white police.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 21, 2016 11:28 AM  

Ironsides:
I'm personally not sure whether it's the police or the fear of AR-15 wielding "crackers" or simple laziness that keeps the groids confined in this manner, though I suspect that it's a mix of all three. But considering that I don't see the police pounding on white people much, and that most of them are in favor of private gun ownership (the last argument of the white man against tyranny) I have some inclination to agree with clk.

I pretty much agree with your take with the exception that there are more cases of police abuse of whites (especially dindus with badges and guns) than is reported by the (((media))). There was a white mother of three gunned down in her backyard in a smallish Iowa town about 2 years back by a dindu officer over her dog barking. Bet you never heard of that one. Officer dindu's murder was (of course) "justified" (as they always are) and (unlike old Darren Wilson), Officer Dindu Nuffin' is still collecting his nice taxpayer-funded salary. Contrary to the pipe-dreams of libertarian popular-uprising, nobody has sent Officer Dindu to his eternal reward (though he has no doubt earned it many times over).

Anonymous Jack Amok November 21, 2016 12:02 PM  

Contrary to the pipe-dreams of libertarian popular-uprising, nobody has sent Officer Dindu to his eternal reward (though he has no doubt earned it many times over).

Of course the people with higher levels of impulse control will snap last. But when and if they do...

That's the fire "authorities" are playing with.

Anonymous Hugo de Naranja November 21, 2016 12:28 PM  

@97
"Druggies only get in the way because by being druggies they side with black and brown by default."

Underrated post.

Drug use is a niggerish pastime and not an element of our society. It's a disreputable foreign vice introduced, encouraged, and practiced by wiggers, who are enemies of our people.

Preserving our culture from those who would wreck it for profit, or introduce foreign vices that are intended to weaken us, is what the State is for.

Hang the dopers. All of them. Leave them in the gibbet with signs around their necks saying "I chose to be a wigger and betray my community." Whether it's Rastus with the little glass pipe or Jose with the needle or the idiot high school kid caught with two joints. The suppliers and the associated organized crime and corruption will vanish once no one is willing to buy from them.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 21, 2016 1:05 PM  

@109 Don't forget beer which came from those wicked Middle Easterners. Hang all those drunkards.

Hang the smokers too, Vox's savage red kin gave us tobacco.
Vox's Mexican ancestors cursed us with chocolate, better hang anyone caught with a Snickers.

Anonymous map November 21, 2016 2:16 PM  

@84

I don't understand. Where do you think you are going to get this competition that will somehow alter the business model of drug dealing? From where are these production and distribution networks going to emerge to remove the criminal element from the use and sale of drugs?

Remember, when prohibition ended, the mass manufacturers of alcohol simply brought their production back online, because alcohol was always a legitimate mass market product. From where do you get your production of meth and heroin? Mexican drug labs? You want these to be allowed to flood the market?

Because production and distribution of opiates is controlled by criminal gangs with a monopoly on violence, they will use those assets to prevent the very competition you are counting on to somehow alter the business model. Think is through and actually understand what it is you are doing.

Beyond that, America does not need to become a society of lotus eaters. Pot is a mind-altering substance and a gateway drug to other drugs, not to mention that legalized pot will lead to ever stronger varieties. Heavy-duty drug users cannot hold down jobs or take care of themselves. Because we do not exist as individuals but as families, one drug addict can take out an entire family, as everyone scrambles to deal with the addicts' needs.

No, if anything the drug war has to be directed to removing the mass manufacture and mass distribution of drugs from the US...militarily if necessary. The wall on the Mexican border is a good start.

Anonymous map November 21, 2016 2:23 PM  

@110

Alcoholism is a personal failing, not a physically addictive product. That is why the ratio of alcoholism to alcohol use is very small.

Chocolate and tobacco are not mind-altering drugs. Smokers and chocolate eaters can hold down jobs.

Blogger James Dixon November 21, 2016 2:55 PM  

> Legalizing drugs is not going to change the incentives to kill each other over territories.

That depends on whether you can buy the drugs at Walgreens and CVS. If you can those territories are lost.

> Legalizing opiates would lead to criminal monopolies the likes of which the west has never experienced or dealt with before. It is a phenomenally stupid idea.

You can buy codeine at any pharmacy in Canada simply by asking for it. I haven't noticed the problems you mention the times I've been there.

> I don't understand. Where do you think you are going to get this competition that will somehow alter the business model of drug dealing? From where are these production and distribution networks going to emerge to remove the criminal element from the use and sale of drugs?

They're called drug stores. I'm sure you've seen them around.

> Pot is a mind-altering substance and a gateway drug to other drugs, not to mention that legalized pot will lead to ever stronger varieties.

I believe you've watched Reefer Madness a few times too many times.

> Alcoholism is a personal failing, not a physically addictive product.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Anonymous map November 21, 2016 3:15 PM  

@111

Really? You think you are going to buy crystal meth or heroin at Walgreens or CVS? And I suppose both want the legal liability of selling these products to consumers?

You think the Crips and Bloods won't torch any pharmacy in their neighborhoods that attempted to move in on their territory?

C'mon people.

You are not going to get the competition you expect to alter the business model. Big corporations are not going to incur the legal liability of selling drugs with massive side-effects and no medicinal value over-the-counter. Mom-and-pop stores are not going to risk murder, kidnapping and arson just to sell dope in bad neighborhoods. Nothing is going to move online.

Geez. Let's be realistic.

More importantly, I don't want some democrat giving a drug-dealing crony a franchise to get your kids hooked on drugs...and then tell you it is ok because of taxes which will go to another democrat crony to start rehab programs for your kids. Eff that...

Anonymous LurkingPuppy November 21, 2016 3:17 PM  

I just want them to legalize pseudoephedrine. And iodine and phosphorus.

Blogger James Dixon November 21, 2016 4:29 PM  

> Really? You think you are going to buy crystal meth or heroin at Walgreens or CVS?

If they're legal to sell, yes. Lots of businesses sell things that can kill you.

Blogger James Dixon November 21, 2016 4:31 PM  

> I just want them to legalize pseudoephedrine.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/better-living-through-chemistry-making-sudafed-from-meth/

Blogger James Dixon November 21, 2016 4:36 PM  

> You think the Crips and Bloods won't torch any pharmacy in their neighborhoods that attempted to move in on their territory?

Do you have any idea how many drug stores there are out there?

But why would people want heroin or crystal meth when there would be far better and cheaper options for getting their desired highs if they weren't illegal.

Blogger wreckage November 21, 2016 7:53 PM  

The Crips and Bloods, under legalization, would lose all police protection. Right now they get protected from other gangs, by the cops. Under legalization only pharmacies would be protected; everyone else would be shot. It will work, because it has worked.

Legalizing booze didn't make Capone or his like rich. Legalizing marijuana has already gutted the Mexican growers and traders.

Legal and regulated. It works.

Anonymous map November 22, 2016 3:32 AM  

"The Crips and Bloods, under legalization, would lose all police protection. Right now they get protected from other gangs, by the cops."

What are you talking about?

Anonymous Crow November 23, 2016 12:43 AM  

The problem would actually be solved by just fixing the demographics. The latter two are symptoms of the first. Also, I can assure you that in small town America the police are most certainly not militarized. In larger cities that is debatable, but large cities also have liberal mayors who appoint liberal police chiefs who are all about population control. Since I personally would rather watch America's largest 20 cities be nuked than be forced to live in one, I have no issues with watching them destroy themselves internally.

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