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Wednesday, November 23, 2016

The fortress of solitude

It's not such a bad place to be. In fact, it's rather comfortable, if not energizing.
While it's widely accepted that socialising makes us happier, this might not be strictly true if you’re highly intelligent. Evolutionary psychologists from Singapore Management University and the London School of Economics and Political Science found exactly this when they studied more than 15,000 young adults.

They concluded that, while people generally feel happier when they spend time with others, very smart people are an exception to this rule.

The study said this could be because of evolution.

Smarter people can more easily adapt to their surroundings in the modern world, so they don’t need close relationships to help them with food and shelter, like our ancestors did. Or, in the modern equivalent, the Wi-Fi password and a spare phone charger.

Their other theory is that smarter people are more aspirational, and want to spend more time working towards their goals, rather than socialising.

The study found that more intelligent people actually had lower life satisfaction the more frequently they socialised with friends - spending time with friends actually made them unhappy.
Here is an example of why I prefer solitude. Imagine going through some form of this every single day, in almost every single conversation with almost everyone you encounter outside the home. After I posted a link to the 16 Points of the Alt-Right on Gab, no less than THREE (3) people decided that they had spotted a contradiction and promptly popped up to demand clarifications.
So are we the best of humanity objectively speaking, or merely our best selves when under nationalist administration? If you are speaking in terms of who wields power over who in point 15 rather than objective cultural/racial traits, that needs to be clarified.

It doesn't need anything of the sort. Stop sperging.

Can you explain why #14 and #15 aren't a contradiction?

Existence is not supremacy. Did you really need help understanding that? Learn to read what is there, don't just latch onto one word in the sentence.

Wow, dude. Why so nasty? There are some racial nuances of the #AltRight I'm trying to understand...Much of what I'm hearing in practice sounds contrictory...but I see you have no interest in any questions.

I don't have any interest in questions from people who can't distinguish "race" from "civilization" or "supremacy" from "existence". Seriously, how do I talk to you if you can't even handle that? Sign language? Charades?

If you're going to draw up what's essentially a summative constitutional/base document, get it fucking 100% unambiguous.

I don't write for relative retards. There are many translations of it. Feel free to translate it for those with normal-range IQs if you like. I'd genuinely be curious to see what that would look like.

Yes you're quite right. Guess there's no point communicating. You're way too busy being pissed off to bother.
Do you know why people have to be paid to teach? Because no one wants to put up with idiots struggling with the obvious. I really don't want to have to repetitively explain to people that 2 is not 37 and purple is not yellow every single time I open my mouth. It's worse than aggravating, it is exhausting.

If you want to be more accommodating to the highly intelligent people in your life, there is one thing that you can do that will make you considerably less annoying than the average person: DO NOT CORRECT THEM. If you don't understand something, or if you think something they have said is wrong, just let it go.

This is desirable because 75 percent of the time someone "corrects" a highly intelligent person, they are demonstrably and provably wrong. Another 20 percent of the time, the correction is trivial and totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. This percentage rises to 99 percent when the "correction" is based on something pedantic. I'm not saying that highly intelligent people are always right, I'm just saying that the odds are not in your favor.

Labels:

141 Comments:

Blogger Student in Blue November 23, 2016 11:09 AM  

This is desirable because 75 percent of the time someone "corrects" a highly intelligent person, they are demonstrably and provably wrong. Another 20 percent of the time, the correction is trivial and totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Uhm, uhh, I have to correct you here Vox, because clearly 75% + 20% isn't 99% and yeah. Gosh, how could get it so wrong?

:)

OpenID cicerotoo November 23, 2016 11:09 AM  

It makes holidays a bitch.

Blogger ViciousCreep November 23, 2016 11:10 AM  

"Do you know why people have to be paid to teach? Because no one wants to put up with idiots struggling with the obvious."

Ohh! I thought it was just because no one wants to put up with college administrators. *Makes note with tongue clenched firmly in lips*

Blogger Sillon Bono November 23, 2016 11:13 AM  

>>Because no one wants to put up with idiots struggling with the obvious.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like to point that:

"The obvious" is obvious once you know it, and sometimes getting to know it is not that obvious.

Teaching small children opened my eyes a lot on that regard.

Blogger JACIII November 23, 2016 11:17 AM  

This have anything to do with, and I paraphrase,: "Wait. I thought WE. DON'T. CARE. if they call us Nazis" ?

Anonymous RC November 23, 2016 11:20 AM  

"If you want to be more accommodating to the highly intelligent people in your life, there is one thing that you can do that will make you considerably less annoying than the average person: DO NOT CORRECT THEM. If you don't understand something, or if you think something they have said is wrong, just let it go."

Amen. And may it be so.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar November 23, 2016 11:30 AM  

Grok fail.

Anonymous Hauen November 23, 2016 11:30 AM  

Best. Post. Ever. As a midwit who deals with halfwits all day I can only imagine what it's like for people at the genius-level to deal with literally almost anyone. I know when I get home I don't want to see or talk to anyone, just lock myself in my office and nap.

Blogger Flyover Pilgrim November 23, 2016 11:31 AM  

Exasperated is no way to go through life, which is why I prefer to be alone.

@4. I don't think Vox was talking about teaching *young* children.

Anonymous Faceless November 23, 2016 11:32 AM  

What I love about the new generation of online bumpkins: They believe in rules.

What I don't love about the new generation of online bumpkins: They are the ones who make the rules, know the rules, and will only tell them when they appeal to them.

Good golly, I guess you need to ask the secret princes of wisdom to peruse your blog posts to ensure you haven't broken the rule and written them at too high a Flesch Index.

Anonymous krymneth November 23, 2016 11:35 AM  

"Smarter people can more easily adapt to their surroundings in the modern world, so they don’t need close relationships to help them with food and shelter, like our ancestors did."

That sounds like a just-so story.

I'd submit that the far more likely path is:

1. As Vox has mentioned many times, communication across an IQ gap becomes difficult the larger it becomes, until it is all but uncrossable at around 30 points.

2. People learn to enjoy socialization because humans are genetically predisposed towards socialization, and when the social interactions are successful, the enjoyment forms a simple positive reinforcement loop, feeding into and enhanced by our genetic inclinations.

3. For very intelligent people, the social interactions are not successful, so even though they are also genetically predisposed towards being social, the reinforcement loop never successfully kicks in, and the intelligent person learns to develop without needing social interactions.

Of course this is merely a competing "just-so" story, but I'd submit that is at least has more explanatory power for how intelligent people interact. On those rare occasions where my wife gets to see me interact socially at work, she has commented that it is weird to see me laughing and joking and saying hi to people and generally looking like a social butterfly, because it's the only time she sees it. Well, sure... I have a very intellectual job, so "my coworkers" is the closest thing I have to a pool of people that I can freely communicate with. Most of the time, in most other social situations, I take care of the children if relevant, or perform basic social tasks to at least not look like an ass, but have a hard time connecting.

A hostile reader will probably conclude that I'm using the IQ gap problem as an excuse to check out of social interactions. Actually, if anything, coming to a deeper understanding of that has helped me socialize more successfully, by improving my understanding of the situation. However, that has its limits.

I've also phrased this as being "asocial, but not anti-social". There's a difference.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable November 23, 2016 11:36 AM  

It comes back to that 15 point IQ differential Vox talked about months ago. Speaking to people more then 15 points below your own level is like speaking another language. 30 points below and they might as well be another species.

This is why most of the time highly intelligent people do not make good schoolteachers. They're exceedingly useful to those equipped to learn from them, but that's a tiny percentage of the average 30 students chosen at random.

Blogger JACIII November 23, 2016 11:36 AM  

insanitybytes2 wrote:"This is desirable because 75 percent of the time someone "corrects" a highly intelligent person, they are demonstrably and provably wrong"

Fortunately people like Vox never confuse being highly intelligent with having a huge ego and believing oneself to be above the other mere humans.


I apprenticed under a highly accomplished, competitively successful master of his craft. He told me once while I thought I was doing well on a project, "It is physically painful to watch you work at that skill level."

I thought he was full of shit. Like you think VD is full of shit. I eventually got good. I see it now.

Sometimes folks are far enough above your level you can't conceptualize chasm. Doesn't mean you shouldn't question, but doing some homework first might keep you out of hot water.

Blogger Mr. Naron November 23, 2016 11:38 AM  

I remember how much easier socializing got when beer became part of the process.

Blogger Gordian12 November 23, 2016 11:38 AM  

"Do you know why people have to be paid to teach? Because no one wants to put up with idiots struggling with the obvious."

Given that most educators are people who failed out of their first career or major, the connection between intelligent people and education is tenuous. Of course, there are also people like me interested in indoctrinating young people, but I don't do it for the paycheck, I do it for the lulz, and I just flunk the total idiots.

Blogger Happy LP9 November 23, 2016 11:41 AM  

I empathize. The fortress complex is not well accepted when some one is being called a recluse or too introverted. It's more about the value of time and of course a place enjoying interactions as long its short and not too often. My 11/8 election celebration party did me in, great time, but a tad of drain even though I like or care for everyone.

It is also painful to be labeled depressive or depressed when schedules and energy levels do not meet the other persons wishes. It is not avoidance, its kinda exhausting. I like it when the other person or entire group carries the whole party or the whole group setting not contented or happy me. But this is not an illusion of intelligence just a quieter person. Gab is super fun but a live offline Gab party might have me leaving for home in 40 mins. I dont know.

Blogger Joe Doakes November 23, 2016 11:42 AM  

Every day, I have to explain to other licensed attorneys how to practice Minnesota real estate law. Vox is correct: the struggle is real and it's exhausting.

Anonymous Casey November 23, 2016 11:42 AM  

I think it's pretty simple. If you're reasonably bright, the dumbasses hate you. Even if you try to keep the fact hidden.

Blogger Rabbi B November 23, 2016 11:43 AM  

If you don't understand something, or if you think something they have said is wrong, just let it go..

Indeed.

The one who has knowledge uses words with restraint, and whoever has understanding is even-tempered. Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent,and discerning if they hold their tongues. (cf. Proverbs 17)

Blogger Whisker biscuit November 23, 2016 11:43 AM  

OT, but what's up with Paul Joseph Watson on Farcebook? He's snow flaking like an SJW..

Blogger Happy LP9 November 23, 2016 11:45 AM  

13 That is what teaching yoga and ballet is like, painful to watch very talented women operate at a lower level. Even I cannot often level up in skillz as I accept my aging. I dont understand why women 10 to 15 years younger than me are not better than me, they should be teaching not me but life is life.

Blogger buwaya puti November 23, 2016 11:51 AM  

Very much a personality thing I think, not IQ, or only IQ.
I personally love teaching. Getting close to retirement, it is what I mostly do, practically speaking, these days. I have also done my bit of university teaching (thermodynamics, etc.) and high school math tutoring. Yes, I suffer fools gladly and they don't make me angry. No genius I, but it can't be uncommon even for the genius class.
Richard Feynman for instance loved teaching. See "Surely You're Joking...".

Blogger JACIII November 23, 2016 11:55 AM  

buwaya puti wrote:Very much a personality thing I think, not IQ, or only IQ.

I personally love teaching. Getting close to retirement, it is what I mostly do, practically speaking, these days. I have also done my bit of university teaching (thermodynamics, etc.) and high school math tutoring. Yes, I suffer fools gladly and they don't make me angry. No genius I, but it can't be uncommon even for the genius class.

Richard Feynman for instance loved teaching. See "Surely You're Joking...".


There must be a natural drive for older guys to pass on knowledge. I see a change come over the soon to be retired and the retired. They get back some of that patience they (we) lost while in the daily struggle.

Anonymous Anonymous November 23, 2016 11:55 AM  

Every single conversation is some variation of the following:

them: You always think you're right.

Me: Of course I do, if I thought I was wrong I would change my mind.

them: But you never listen to me and then change your mind.

Me: That's because you're invariably wrong.

them: jackass

Me: Moron

Anonymous Millenium November 23, 2016 11:56 AM  

Nothing is more draining than living with housemates.

Blogger Dave Narby November 23, 2016 12:00 PM  

@

"There must be a natural drive for older guys to pass on knowledge. I see a change come over the soon to be retired and the retired. They get back some of that patience they (we) lost while in the daily struggle."

b/c it's a core aspect of being human.

Perhaps best phrased by Steven Covey: “To Live, To Love, To Learn, To Leave a Legacy”

http://www.brevedy.com/2015/03/12/live-love-learn-and-leave-a-legacy-the-four-human-dimensions/

Blogger Dave Johnston November 23, 2016 12:04 PM  

Great quote from the 'Sherlock Holmes' TV show along these lines. Sherlock tells the story of he and Mycroft being raised in isolation at the family estate in the country. Because Mycroft is so much smarter, they are both convinced that Sherlock is retarded. Now that they have interacted with the rest of humanity, Sherlock surmises that, for Mycroft, it must be 'like living in a world populated by goldfish'.

Blogger VD November 23, 2016 12:06 PM  

Very much a personality thing I think, not IQ, or only IQ.

Read the study. Personality is certainly a factor, but I've noticed that virtually no one I know can stand my preferred level of isolation. The only friend who is more solitary is a full SD above me.

Blogger Dave Narby November 23, 2016 12:08 PM  

As a fellow smartfucker, I have noted that historically, the issue with smartfuckers is they generally get things right. Otherwise they'd be dumbfucks, or average joes.

The problem is that when they get big things wrong, they can get them really, really wrong, and the error can take generations to correct.

e.g. Einstein's theory of Relativity. Einstein was truly a smartfucker. But he fucked royally up in his ultimate smartfuckery, Relativity. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tB3IBXTgEc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fePQdJNVF9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zELjb6iDjL8 much more at www.thunderbolts.info

Blogger Ben Cohen November 23, 2016 12:08 PM  

Learned years ago that arguing is a waste of time and most of life is observing people.

I suspect it would be easy to connect with a super intelligence like Vox - just shut up and actively listen.

Curious, Vox: what is the type of person you tend to get along with?

Blogger Bernard Brandt November 23, 2016 12:11 PM  

My experience has been one with that of Confucius, who said: 'Some account me among the wise, but I believe that I have something to learn from one of three people who are walking around.'

The smarter third of humanity, yeh. The other two thirds, not so much. That's why I stay in the Fortress of Solitude, which is what I call my little cottage in SoCal.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 November 23, 2016 12:14 PM  

Do you know why people have to be paid to teach?
"Oleanna", 1992 David Mamet.
CaptDMO

Anonymous VFM #0265 November 23, 2016 12:15 PM  

VFM Bulletin Notice: Ilk, Dread Ilk, VFM & assorted Lurkers -- Please do not feed the Trolls. That is all. Thank You.

**We. Don't. Care**

Anonymous NateM November 23, 2016 12:15 PM  

I'm not highly intelligent, but I notice the same tediousness. After the election I posted a rather mild statement about it (nothing like the ruthless deep burns the ilk normally favor, and I find hilarious) and got no less than 3 friends basically Demanding I pay attention to them and justify myself. One in particular posted:

"Totally curious: Why believe him now? Why not believe the other things he said about women, minorities, etc?"

I decided I didn't need the agita of dealing with the terminally offended, so simply ignored all the replies. Later I posted a meme about the irony of their wanting to escape to canada, which already had the same strict immigration policies Trump proposed, and which they find racist. The same person posted

"You realize everyone is cool with having a process for immigration, right? We're just not afraid of people who are refugees, people of color, or non Christian. This doesn't move discourse forward at all. I've several times asked questions of you based on things you've written about and posted and you've never responded."

Me- "That's because I have no interest in responding."
her-" I guess I don't see the point of posting something on social media if you're not interested in discourse."
Another Friend-"For the Lulz"

These people seriously think that you OWE them some explanation of your opinions, when it always devolves into some tedious exercise of them either not understanding, or pretending not to understand the most basic tenets of your position. If i'd been feeling particularly mean I would have told her that one day she'll understand the difference between being able to do something, and being required to do it. But I thought "for the lulz" summed it up well enough.

Blogger Nick S November 23, 2016 12:16 PM  

LOL! None really. We all annoy him.

He's just jealous of my glorious flaxen mane glistening in the sun like a beacon of love shining an irresistible tractor beam of lust on his women's nether regions...and my sturdy ankles.

Anonymous fop November 23, 2016 12:17 PM  

I like solitude but I'm a total dumbass.

HYPOTHESIS FALSIFIED BITCHEZ!!!!!

Anonymous Fisher November 23, 2016 12:17 PM  

Because life without levity would be absurd.

Blogger Jose November 23, 2016 12:22 PM  

There's a parallel to knowledge too: when your knowledge about a subject is one or more orders of magnitude above that of your interlocutors, you get the same problems. (For example, when an electrical engineer tries to talk about power generation with environmentalists: after a while, exasperation at their ignorance sets in.) Like with intelligence, there's no hope for useful communication.

As for teaching, two relatively modern techniques, participant-centered learning and peer instruction, solve this problem (when done well). Basically, by training the higher knowledge/IQ person to solve a different problem than the one the students are solving (they are solving the subject matter, the instructor is solving a modal logic problem where the subject matter is the object operated upon by logic operators).

Cheers,
JCS

Anonymous GregMan November 23, 2016 12:24 PM  

I have spent most of my adult life pretending to have an IQ 50 points lower than it actually is, just to get along with "normal" people in social settings. It really is a huge struggle.

Before I figured it out, most people, especially pretty girls, said they were "intimidated" by me. Try getting a date with that particular albatross hanging around your neck (this was way, way before there was such a concept as "Game"). So is it any wonder I prefer to be by myself?

Blogger Esmar Tuek November 23, 2016 12:25 PM  

I'd voluntarily lose 20 IQ points if it were possible.

Blogger Horatio Lust November 23, 2016 12:26 PM  

"Obvious" means "Overlooked" as a seminar master once opined...

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 23, 2016 12:26 PM  

krymneth wrote:On those rare occasions where my wife gets to see me interact socially at work, she has commented that it is weird to see me laughing and joking and saying hi to people and generally looking like a social butterfly, because it's the only time she sees it. Well, sure... I have a very intellectual job, so "my coworkers" is the closest thing I have to a pool of people that I can freely communicate with. Most of the time, in most other social situations, I take care of the children if relevant, or perform basic social tasks to at least not look like an ass, but have a hard time connecting.

Wow, I could have written that. And the rest of it too. I only came to understand this well when I was in my 40s (53 now).

Anonymous VFM #0265 November 23, 2016 12:27 PM  

fop said: I like solitude but I'm a total dumbass.

HYPOTHESIS FALSIFIED BITCHEZ!!!!!

----

Yeah, coz if X likes Z....

and Y likes Z.....

Then Y = X !!!

When I hear Logic like that, Sir Fop....well, I think to myself THAT....is in a Class all it's own. We "Bitchez" are most humbled by your ravist wit.

Blogger plishman November 23, 2016 12:28 PM  

The more you know, the less you can say. Only love and the Good News contribute to the perfection of reality.

Anonymous Avalanche November 23, 2016 12:31 PM  

My late husband described himself as a lonely lone wolf in the cow pasture that was/is the South. (I believe he would have found such pastures no matter where he lived.) I used to tease him about 'writing in a pompous way,' but he said he wasn't writing to find "people" -- he was writing in the hopes of finding another WOLF! (http://master-morality.blogspot.com/)

(Sorry to wander down memory lane, but your post made me cry, Vox: the loss of such a man is world-shattering and heart-breaking. Would that he had found you before his death.)

(I wonder if Kratman will find him horrible or prescient. From his blog (2010):

"...
Amidst coming global catastrophe, mid-century at the latest, whatever is left of the military will inevitably assume command of the situation - for good or ill. Satan is on his way to collect his due for WWII, after a century of party-time for the conniving and back-stabbing Anglo-Americans. Indeed, the ghost of Hua Guofeng whispers to us his cautionary tale, from the shadows around us into which we do not see.

Thus it is important for military personnel, above all others, to have been exposed to a brutally forthright explanation of the roots of the catastrophe. The Big Tent propaganda effort, to sneak as many goyim under the White-wing canvas, detracts from that vital project by sliding over differences in ideological perspectives (to the extent that they are even recognized amidst a lack of clarity as to the nature of reality). {Harken, Christers, Populists, and Colonists.}
..."

Anonymous fop November 23, 2016 12:35 PM  

@43

U r gay. And I fukking LOVE science, biatch.

Anonymous RC November 23, 2016 12:36 PM  

Esmar Tuek wrote:I'd voluntarily lose 20 IQ points if it were possible.

Drink flouride.

Anonymous VFMUltra November 23, 2016 12:38 PM  

I'm an ENTJ and though I've moments where I feel very comfortable in social environments, they are fleeting and infrequent. My wife will often accuse me of being a terrible friend or just a plain dick because I will often reject phone calls or not return phone calls to close associates until days have passed. I reserve most of my social energy for attending my children's sports games. Mostly I feel I don't have time for chit-chat because it's regurgitated bullshit and in interrupts ongoing thought processes. Most socialization is a useless distraction that adds nothing (usually) and clutters the mind.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair November 23, 2016 12:38 PM  

Going off what someone said above about being an SME, it's very painful explaining your area of expertise to outsiders. I speak from experience on several fronts there. What makes it worse is asshats who know jack about your area but people believe them.

Blogger Wanda Sherratt November 23, 2016 12:41 PM  

I'm no genius, but I've read a lot of English literature, and can usually summon up a quote for almost any occasion. I remember once on an old discussion board, quoting a phrase from Shakespeare's Richard II, only to be immediately corrected by someone, saying "LOL. You mean Richard III". "No. Richard *II*." Incredulity. Just because this person had heard of Richard III and not Richard II, she assumed I was wrong. And obviously she'd never heard the quote before, or she'd know it wasn't from Richard III, assuming she'd even read Richard III, which I doubt. I still fume when I think about it.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw November 23, 2016 12:41 PM  

See? I like average people. Men and women in the 95-105 IQ range know where they stand most of the time and are happy with themselves. They are the people I take great pleasure in being around, who hold very little demand for my knowledge, and understand that I'm human and fallible, just like them. Its like laying in a field or going camping. When I crave the stimulation, I always have the option of diving into my own head and working on one of the side projects.

Fuck most +1/+2s though. It's like they don't understand plain English and leading them to a point is like pulling a donkey. They are shining examples of people that when called out on false claims of knowledge, create an impenetrable delusion bubble. You can focus your beams on it, and all they will do is use the energy to bubble harder. They seem to use their slightly advanced intelligence simply to jerk their own egos, not understanding that for all the back pats they got in their lives, they are closer to dogs than they are to me, intellectually, and dogs are at least loyal and unpretentious.

+3s seem to be on the outer end of the curve, knowing enough to know what they don't know. I'm cool with the ones I've met, but they're so damned rare.

I'm just a damned freak.

Blogger buwaya puti November 23, 2016 12:42 PM  

If you are highly intelligent and are having trouble attracting pretty girls, there are three or four or five things that shouldnt be too hard for the highly intelligent to do to break out of that problem.
- learn to play the guitar, for preference, but any common "social instrument" will do.
- learn French or Italian. Or whatever passes as a high status language in your context.
- be wealthy, or reasonably so
- Work out, at least a bit, and don't be fat. This shouldnt be too hard for the enhanced self-discipline of the intelligent.
- learn to dance, at least one step. I learned the cha cha, and I can cha cha to anything - waltz, rap, metal, whatever. Just dance, it works.

Blogger Scott6584 November 23, 2016 12:42 PM  

"I'm not saying that highly intelligent people are always right, I'm just saying that the odds are not in your favor."

In my own experience as a "highly intelligent" person, I tend not to opine about subjects of which I have very limited knowledge. But unlike some who are less intelligent, I don't have any problem admitting ignorance. It doesn't deflate my self-regard in any way to admit ignorance and ask for more information.

But the subjects on which I do offer opinions are very well thought out, because I do the work to find the information to support the conclusions I've reached. I think that is why it is dangerous for low to medium intelligent people to get into discussions with highly intelligent people. It's not that we know everything better than you. It's that on the subjects we care about, our level of knowledge and understanding dwarfs that of others.

And on subject we care not about, we are happy to let you have your say without contradiction. But even on those subjects, we expect a minimum level of intellectual rigor and logical coherence. I am quick to see the logical inconsistencies in presentations about which I know little, and have little patience with propoganda.

One of the more difficult things for me to fully comprehend and practice has been Vox's distinction between making dialectic presentations vs. rhetorical arguments. While I can easily understand the logical basis for the two different styles of communication, I think I owe a debt of gratitude to those who have learned to effectively use the rhetorical style to convince others. It is too easy to lapse back into dialectic reasoning when it is neither appropriate for the audience, or very convincing. I think it takes great self discipline to evaluate your audience correctly, and stick to rhetorical argument techniques when the knowledge base is present from which you could draw to obliterate your opponent dialectically. To realize how ineffective that can be is a revelation many highly intelligent people people need to experience and understand - however frustrating it may be.

Anonymous BGKB November 23, 2016 12:47 PM  

U r gay. And I fukking LOVE science, biatch.

Yes that is a good example of how most gay conversations go. So few are willing to abide silence.

Blogger buwaya puti November 23, 2016 12:48 PM  

See? I am teaching. Its a bad habit. Give me a whiteboard and I'm insufferable.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor November 23, 2016 12:50 PM  

I hate it when people ask me what I do and then press for details when they're clearly not interested. Usually if I somehow get suckered into providing detail, I can spot the moment when their eyes glaze over a few seconds into the convo. I bet a lot of people here know what I'm talking about.

Blogger Scott6584 November 23, 2016 12:50 PM  

buwaya puti wrote:If you are highly intelligent and are having trouble attracting pretty girls, there are three or four or five things that shouldnt be too hard for the highly intelligent to do to break out of that problem.

- learn to play the guitar, for preference, but any common "social instrument" will do.

- learn French or Italian. Or whatever passes as a high status language in your context.

- be wealthy, or reasonably so

- Work out, at least a bit, and don't be fat. This shouldnt be too hard for the enhanced self-discipline of the intelligent.

- learn to dance, at least one step. I learned the cha cha, and I can cha cha to anything - waltz, rap, metal, whatever. Just dance, it works.


Girls are impressed by intelligence, but not impressed by the details of your intelligence. A display of intelligence is very effective in increasing a woman's attraction to you. But it has to be limited to a display. Use it to impress her, and then focus on her - which is who she really wants to talk about anyway. And a raised eyebrow with the comment, "You really believe that?" combined with a somewhat dismissive smile will drive them crazy. If they already believe you are smarter, then they will try to get your approval of their opinion. Don't give it. Change the subject to how hot she looks, or how much you like her dress. Leave the dismissal of her "obviously" inferior opinion hanging without resolution. She'll simultaneously know that 1) you are above her, 2) she is inferior, and 3) you are gracious enough to not expose her. It will both infuriate her, and make her appreciate you even more.

That's how it works. It is really quite easy.

Anonymous Avalanche November 23, 2016 12:54 PM  

As the mate to a highly intelligent man, who only spoke when he "had information to pass on"; and, like a girl, I was SO frustrated at his lack of talking... (You know that saying: women have 10,000 words a day and men have 5,000; so by the time men get home from work, they've used them up? My husband had 700 words a day!)

Once at lunch, I snapped: "I don't CARE what you talk to me about: read the damned phone book! Tell me the throw weight of WWII weapons, just TALK to me!" So (a WWII expert), he began to tell me the throw weights of WWII weapons (no, really!).

To his absolute amazement(and eventual delight), I listened closely, I asked intelligent questions, and he actually had a conversation about a topic close to his heart that he truly enjoyed. I may be within 30 points of his IQ, but his depth of knowledge (in his fav areas) WAY outreached mine (except in my fav areas).

I don't know how smart folks *find* such a friend or mate; but an interest on the part of the ... um ... the *other* person ... in the fav topic of the smarter one might not go amiss?

Blogger Cail Corishev November 23, 2016 12:55 PM  

As a midwit who deals with halfwits all day I can only imagine what it's like for people at the genius-level to deal with literally almost anyone.

It's probably worse. The sub-100 people I know generally know they're not going to understand everything, so they try to get what they can and accept it that way. Plus, when talking with them, you have to get down to concrete terms that turn out to be easy to communicate in. Tomorrow I'll sit with a couple and talk hunting and trucks and stuff and it'll be great.

It's the midwits who expect to understand everything, so when they don't understand something, they assume the other person got it wrong.

Blogger The Kurgan November 23, 2016 12:57 PM  

Yup. Exactly that. Stupid people are exhausting. And sometimes even smart people speak different "languages" and it can take a little while to adjust.

High intelligence coupled with a touch of aspiness makes other humans almost intollerably stupid. Honestly it's a bit of a drag. It's not that we don't get a bit lonely at times. It's that compared with being surrounded with a sea of stupid, a desert island can feel relatively blissful.

Blogger plishman November 23, 2016 12:58 PM  

@45 you are not a scientist, but possibly a materialist.

The domain of perception of science is limited, not infinite. I can think of two domains it cannot examine just off the top of my head - single event phenomena and coincidences.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor November 23, 2016 1:00 PM  

@57 I'd say that telling a hot girl you're just getting to know how hot she looks is a bad move. For me that has had a 0% success rate. This was once a mystery, but Game explains this quite well.

Blogger kmbr November 23, 2016 1:01 PM  

**As a midwit who deals with halfwits all day I can only imagine what it's like for people at the genius-level to deal with literally almost anyone**

Love this. (:

Blogger Billy November 23, 2016 1:02 PM  

I've noticed that quite a bit in the comments, not just with the author of a piece but also towards other commenters. It's annoying. I don't know if they just have nothing to say and just want to look intelligent by "catching" one in a contradiction. Similar to when they point out missed spelling or grammar. Man we ain't got time for that. I'm driving and commenting, I'm focused on not running over over a cyclist not spell check.

Anonymous Stickwick November 23, 2016 1:04 PM  

It's worse than aggravating, it is exhausting.

It's genuinely enjoyable to teach people who are teachable, but it's exhausting to deal with people of any IQ or education who are deliberately obtuse or who lack the humility to recognize their limitations (and we all have them).

As a scientist in what is arguably the coolest scientific field, I not only deal with people who are confused, obstinate, and have difficulty grasping concepts, but with earnest folks who think they've figured out the secret to the entire universe and want me to comment on their theories. (Did I say astrophysics? Sorry, I meant astrology. Want me to give you your horoscope?)

As for socializing, I am forced into solitude whether I would want it or not. Fortunately, I do need a great deal of alone time for my sanity, but there are still times when I want to socialize, and that can be extremely frustrating. If you think it's hard, as an intellectual man, to find people you can comfortably socialize with, it's even worse as an intellectual woman who is socially autistic. It's rare to find any meaningful points of connection with other women. It's not that they're unpleasant or unintelligent, but many social cues fly right past me and the vast majority of women just aren't interested in the same things I am.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 23, 2016 1:04 PM  

@55
If you are highly intelligent and are having trouble attracting pretty girls

Then you should read alpha game blogspot. That's why it exists.

Blogger Scott6584 November 23, 2016 1:05 PM  

Noah B The MacroAggressor wrote:@57 I'd say that telling a hot girl you're just getting to know how hot she looks is a bad move. For me that has had a 0% success rate. This was once a mystery, but Game explains this quite well.

It all comes down to timing. If you are being dimissive of her intelligence, what you are communicating is "Stick to looking pretty, sweetheart. That's your only hope. You obviously aren't smart enough for me, so stick to what you're good at."

That is completely different than drooling over her like a lovesick puppy.

Blogger Billy November 23, 2016 1:05 PM  

The only appropriate response. In great words of Tia Tequila " suck balls faggot

Blogger Dave Johnston November 23, 2016 1:06 PM  

Esmar Tuek wrote:
I'd voluntarily lose 20 IQ points if it were possible.

Just wait a few years. I'm in my 50s and it is distressing how my intellectual edge has been dulled by age. I used to have near total recall of anything I had ever read. Now? Not so much. There are compensations. Previously, once I had watched a movie, I remembered every scene and pretty much all the dialogue so thoroughly that I could never enjoy watching it again. Now, give me 10 years and I will have forgotten enough to enjoy a repeat viewing of a good movie.

Anonymous VFM #0265 November 23, 2016 1:07 PM  

Man, Cail.....Hits a homerun once again:

"It's the midwits who expect to understand everything, so when they don't understand something, they assume the other person got it wrong."

--That's the crux of it sometimes. And everything else you wrote prior to that makes me think of The God-Emperor himself. DJT has the ability to communicate via speech at a level congruent & pleasing to his present audience.

Just like you said, he gets down to "concrete terms" that are "easy to communicate in". The refreshing nature of this approach is why many people related to him and ultimately voted for him. We should all follow his example, really.

--Still not tired of winning.

Blogger Billy November 23, 2016 1:12 PM  

Damn, high IQ folks got it bad with the isolation part. It's hard to chase pussy when your alone in a mountain cabin staring out the window contemplating deep thoughts.

Blogger Scott6584 November 23, 2016 1:14 PM  

Honestly, while girls may be impossible to fully comprehend from an intellectual perspective (I don't think most women can even comprehend themselves or other women), they are exceedingly easy to manipulate and control. It never ceases to amaze me how many men find it difficult to entice a woman. I'm 51 years old, and overweight, and still have young girls in their 20's initiating physical contact, and trying to impress me. Once you learn how to push the buttons, it's not that hard.

Think of it like driving a car. You don't have to understand the intricacies of how an internal combustion engine works, or how the DC electrical system operates to be able to drive the car. Just stick your key in the ignition, put it into gear, and drive it. Maybe some guys try to hard to understand how women tick. My advice is to stop it. Just stick the key in and drive. They are BEGGING to be driven. It's what they are made for. They love, love, love to be manipulated and controlled. It (weirdly, from a man's perspective) makes them feel safe, loved, and fulfilled.

Blogger Leo Littlebook in Shenzhen November 23, 2016 1:15 PM  

Meatspace dialectic is dialup.

Anonymous Jacks Carlton November 23, 2016 1:17 PM  

Word thinking at its finest. 14 words = white supremacy and white supremacy is a contradiction of point 15. Retarded, I know, but that is what is happening.

They must be SJWs (or at least AntiFa if there is a difference) because their thinking belies a familiarity with the 14 words which they have already equated to white supremacy. This is how SJWs see it, so that's where they are coming from. They also already think you are an ass, so when you get frustrated with their retardation, that is what they see. The problem is you haven't clarified their hallucination.

Get with it, Vox. A good writer knows how to anticipate the hallucinations of retards. :/

Blogger Mish in Utah November 23, 2016 1:17 PM  

Interesting take. I find social interaction exhausting, but assumed it was due to my introverted nature. But I'll admit, in the last office I worked in, I enjoyed it when the coworkers gathered before a meeting and chatted.
Only one of us didn't fit in well in spite of efforts to be nice. It was definitely a difference in IQ. His was noticeably lower than the rest of us. Super nice guy, but just outmatched and often misunderstood jokes and couldn't follow conversations at times. It was painful to deal with him.
Anyway I'll admit Vox loses me sometimes, but I believe that its on me to go back and read again more slowly if I want to understand. Since he makes sense most of the time he's built up credit with me.

Blogger VD November 23, 2016 1:20 PM  

I think it takes great self discipline to evaluate your audience correctly, and stick to rhetorical argument techniques when the knowledge base is present from which you could draw to obliterate your opponent dialectically. To realize how ineffective that can be is a revelation many highly intelligent people people need to experience and understand - however frustrating it may be.

I think speaking an additional language or two helps a lot in this regard. One is accustomed to the idea of switching gears depending upon the audience.

Anonymous The Question November 23, 2016 1:25 PM  

This is why I avoid all political discussions on Facebook outside of a private group. In fact, I find it hard to have any meaningful conversations with most people due to a combination of ignorance a total lack of intellectual curiosity The conversations are more of an education session with them so they can learn about a subject they have a strong opinion on but know nothing about. They can read about it at InfoGalactic - I have better things to do.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents November 23, 2016 1:30 PM  

What happens when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey November 23, 2016 1:34 PM  

I hear you, Vox. I can attest to this study.

Spending time alone--preferably drinking and shitposting--can be very satisfying indeed.

Not only is it satisfying, it's essential.

The problem becomes more acute when you're an attractive person, people like being around you, or your job depends on being around people a lot.

It's exhausting.

Blogger Scott Laughlin November 23, 2016 1:38 PM  

Vox, have you been listening in on my 'teaching' Math lessons to my 14 year old daughter?

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey November 23, 2016 1:39 PM  

I remember how much easier socializing got when beer became part of the process.

Same here.


----------------------------------------------------------
Why Intelligent People Drink More Alcohol

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010/why-intelligent-people-drink-more-alcohol

OpenID dreadilkzee November 23, 2016 1:41 PM  

Feeling a little less gracious to talking down to the >-2 deviations today I see. This why companies have PR people. VD needs to stop handling his own PR.

Blogger Mr. Naron November 23, 2016 1:46 PM  

80

And I did a lot of "socializing" at Laguna Beach.

Blogger Caedryn Stonelaw November 23, 2016 1:47 PM  

@81 Nah, most of the Ilk are here because they appreciate that Vox talks to them like adults. He's surprisingly kind, even to those that don't get it. If you don't understand the lesson he gave the person above, and how it is different from a plain insult; You'd understand that he's done them a good. He doesn't have to be nice about it.

Blogger Jose November 23, 2016 1:47 PM  

I think a couple of chapters of "the inmates are running the asylum" (a book about human-technology interfaces) were about why nerds are unhappy in general society, and the explanation included something along the lines of the quotes above (ability) but also matters of motivation (nerds would rather be right than successful) and opportunity (non-nerds threatened by nerds control opportunity).

Cheers,
JCS

PS: This might deserve some more thinking, so -- thinking being my main hobby -- I'll probably co-opt the topic into a blog post of my own. :-)

Anonymous Stickwick November 23, 2016 1:48 PM  

Mr. Naron: I remember how much easier socializing got when beer became part of the process.

Word. After being a teetotaler for much of my adult life, about four years ago I discovered how miraculous alcohol really is. Not only does it filter out a lot of the noise, it makes socializing much easier. There's a reason Jesus turned water into wine and not the other way around.

Anonymous Ivan Throne November 23, 2016 1:49 PM  

A reminder to those who measure themselves against more intelligent adversaries, from The Nine Laws:

http://darktriadman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Dark-Triad-Man_The-Nine-Laws_Hundred-Lessons-Card_035.jpg

It accords with the warning of not to engage with the mass media.

Regards,

Ivan

Anonymous Michael T November 23, 2016 2:01 PM  

I only have 120 IQ, I wish it was higher but being smarter than 91 percent is pretty good plus I get to have some social skills too

Anonymous dissidentright November 23, 2016 2:04 PM  

Vox has 30 points on me and I understand almost everything he writes. Not All Midwits Are Like That.

:-)

Blogger Ezekiel November 23, 2016 2:06 PM  

buwaya puti wrote
- learn to dance, at least one step. I learned the cha cha, and I can cha cha to anything - waltz, rap, metal, whatever. Just dance, it works.

I've been known to tell women that I *don't* dance (Southern Baptist) and some of them seem to find that alluring.

Other Baptists, at least the Churchian, Miranda Lambert fangirl types, don't. I think they see my particular brand of retrograde morality as an affront to their own irreverence. Works best with agnostics.


Avalanche wrote:My late husband described himself as a lonely lone wolf in the cow pasture that was/is the South. (I believe he would have found such pastures no matter where he lived.) I used to tease him about 'writing in a pompous way,' but he said he wasn't writing to find "people" -- he was writing in the hopes of finding another WOLF! (http://master-morality.blogspot.com/)

Sounds like my kind of guy.

I don't know if I count as a wolf—or even as, per the OP, intelligent—but I do know that back when I was farming I could often go weeks or even months at a time without speaking to anyone outside of church and first-degree family. I've been diagnosed with Schizoid Personality Disorder, and that seems fitting. Not sure if you can call it a disorder when half the farmers born before the 20th century would have probably been diagnosed with it, though.

In contrast to the article's explanations, I have to wonder how many intelligent people prefer not to deal with others because the "modern world" does them more harm than good.

Anonymous fop November 23, 2016 2:08 PM  

This is why I avoid all political discussions on Facebook outside of a private group. In fact, I find it hard to have any meaningful conversations with most people due to a combination of ignorance a total lack of intellectual curiosity

Lack of intelligence is a different phenomenon than politically charged cognitive bias. Two different neural mechanisms are in play, although the effect (complete inability to understand simple principles) is strikingly similar.

Blogger Ezekiel November 23, 2016 2:09 PM  

Stickwick wrote:Mr. Naron: I remember how much easier socializing got when beer became part of the process.

Word. After being a teetotaler for much of my adult life, about four years ago I discovered how miraculous alcohol really is. Not only does it filter out a lot of the noise, it makes socializing much easier. There's a reason Jesus turned water into wine and not the other way around.

Yeah, but women who drink are absolutely unbearable. Makes me wonder if Sharia would really be so bad.

Blogger Sagramore November 23, 2016 2:13 PM  

Just read the last few paragraphs aloud to my father, whom I love very much but is an accountant and not a lawyer. He makes a mean breakfast though.

Blogger Geir Balderson November 23, 2016 2:19 PM  

Now I understand Scalzi's bunker located below his large grassy acerage! He is intelligent by half!!

Anonymous Stickwick November 23, 2016 2:19 PM  

Ezekiel: Yeah, but women who drink are absolutely unbearable.

Maybe the trick is to liquor up an aspie chick. After about three margaritas, it's like I enter that unattainable realm of joy where life is good and I love everybody and nothing is a problem. Really takes the edge off. If it was possible, my husband would probably prefer I was perpetually buzzed.

Anonymous Bukulu November 23, 2016 2:28 PM  

RC @ 46:



"Drink flouride."

Holy time preference, Batman! Drinking alcohol will solve the issue in a few minutes.

Anonymous Bukulu November 23, 2016 2:29 PM  

Noah B @ 55

"I hate it when people ask me what I do and then press for details when they're clearly not interested..."

Well, it's partly your fault for not turning it into a game...

Q: What do you do?

A: Well, my cover-job is computer programmer, but really I'm a hit man.

Q: Really?

A: Of course, that's not the sort of thing you would joke about.

Q: But... you don't look dangerous or scary...

A: Exactly! Who's going to have an easier time getting close to the victim? The one-armed man.... or me?



Noah B @ 61:

Even the "like your dress" move is fraught with perils. Far better, if you can pull it off, is a comment about that dress that is ambiguous.

Blogger Arborist (#0232) November 23, 2016 2:33 PM  

Amen. My famiy and a few other people understand how I function and that's about it. Hope all of you who celebrate have a great Thanksgiving holiday.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 23, 2016 2:44 PM  

I find the whole issue to be related to a few others. Humor, for one, has been heavily indicated in studies to not translate across a gap of 2SD or more. If you view humor as the grease of social interaction, this pretty much puts it on a "teflon or die" basis for many of us. Either don't speak and avoid engagement, or you better have a teflon hide to keep people above it and away from your nerve endings.

@63. Hello Billy, I'm here for your recommended daily dose of corrections. Just so you remember, "ain't" ain't a word, and you really shouldn't be texting - or typing - while driving.

As far as your local, social "correction officers" go, most of us have something of an obsession with having things neat, accurate, and precise. Just tell us you don't care, and we'll generally bugger off, because there's nothing we can do to correct that.

@71. Most girls are distressingly simple to understand. So simple that if you're not understanding, you're almost certainly over-analyzing. Even the smart ones tend to operate mainly off of emotions, as you've said, you just have to understand that there's nothing intellectual about it.

@77. You.

@80. I've found that sleep deprivation has many of the same effects, while sporting a totally different kind of hangover.

@83. Yes.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 23, 2016 2:52 PM  

@89. I was thiiiiis close to self-diagnosing with SPD at one point, it matches in a whole lot of ways.

@91. I'd rather see their faces. There are probably more lateral methods of keeping them from drinking too much, especially if you're involved in the situation.

Blogger tuberman November 23, 2016 3:00 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 23, 2016 3:01 PM  

Lack of intelligence is a different phenomenon than politically charged cognitive bias.

Political discussions are extra painful because people think anyone can understand politics and have a valid opinion about it. Most people know no more about politics (and all the fields like history and economics that play into it) than they know about, let's say, medicine. But where they would back away from an in-depth discussion between two doctors, or spend most of their time asking questions, when they see a political discussion, they jump in and assume they know as much as anyone else.

That's the main reason I don't discuss politics outside this group. When you're used to talking about things like historical cycles and the effect of the socio-sexual hierarchy on the election, how do you (and why would you) talk to people whose political knowledge stops at "Republicans hate poor people"? It's not just that they're intellectually incurious; it's that they don't see a need to be curious about it, and would probably be offended by the suggestion that they should.

So straight to rhetoric.

Blogger tuberman November 23, 2016 3:03 PM  

I like reading, and even though I'm not a teacher, I have a knack for mentoring, or lighting a spark in intelligent kids, so they can "take the bit," and discipline themselves into excellence. That is the way it really works.

There are many aspects to being able to connect dots to solve difficult problems or to simply see what's really at hand, but curiosity is needed to go along with IQ.

Being able to look into things from the inside out is a huge help, and one looks for aliveness, and questions whether paths followed are fertile with vast new categories of critical questions more then answers.

Being curious in broad areas, and not only reading but testing ideas, gives Density, which could be called intelligent experience.

Intelligence, in a way, means "reading between the lines," and often creating whole new categories is essential.

On the practical side I'm working with my nephew on running, getting his abs strong, and polymetrics. That will make him more body smart.

Blogger Badger Brigadon November 23, 2016 3:05 PM  

Being antisocial doesn't mean you don't like to be around people, isolation breeds insanity... what it means is that when you are around people, you need periods of 'downtime' to recharge your social batteries.

Anonymous torus November 23, 2016 3:16 PM  

"Do you know why people have to be paid to teach? Because no one wants to put up with idiots struggling with the obvious. "

I teach high school mathematics, and nothing could be more true. I remember the first year I taught honors precalculus, it was like walking through a door into another dimension. We could discuss new concepts and the students could make the connections instantly.

We tend to see others as generally like ourselves, but that experience really has allowed me to witness as an objective observer the difference between the group of friends I had in high school and most everyone else. It's quite a leap in communication to go between those kids and a freshman algebra class, many of whom are 2 grades below grade level walking through the door the first day. If you can't adapt and acquire patience and a little empathy, you'll go crazy in this line of work. It's often a struggle for me, but being around honors students is a big gift because I don't need to slow down thoughts or speech with them.

Anonymous Sam the Man November 23, 2016 3:21 PM  

Not so sure I agree exactly, in as much as I have observed the following pattern in social clubs.

Folks of different intelligence levels can socialize quite well if it is based around an activity they all like, such a glider club, as shooting club, a collecting club, etc. The level of interaction will vary but I have seen dull normal (under 95 IQ) socializing on a reasonable level with folks I suspect to be 150 plus or nearly 4 standard deviations (assuming 15 to be a SD.)

In a similar vein, I have seen a bunch of engineers who are all in the 130 plus range (based on GRE scores) who really do not have much interest in talking to each other outside of the technical topics they deal with all day. Yet they are all of a similar intellectual level, within a 1.5 to 2 SD range (high 120s to 150s (possibly lower at the high end).

Blogger Matthew November 23, 2016 3:29 PM  

Stickwick wrote:Ezekiel: Yeah, but women who drink are absolutely unbearable.

Maybe the trick is to liquor up an aspie chick. After about three margaritas, it's like I enter that unattainable realm of joy where life is good and I love everybody and nothing is a problem. Really takes the edge off. If it was possible, my husband would probably prefer I was perpetually buzzed.


Can confirm: Stickwick is good company when buzzed.

Blogger RobertT November 23, 2016 3:35 PM  

Very well put.

Anonymous Douglas November 23, 2016 3:40 PM  

Those who can, do. Those cannot, teach.

Blogger Johnny November 23, 2016 3:42 PM  

What I suspect is there is no reproductive advantage to high intelligence. The reason it evolved is that it is helpful to the clan or extended family to have a few smart people sprinkled in among the population. As in a traditional society everybody would be related, the smart guy causes his genes to get promoted because other things equal, his group is more successful. That is why intelligence is not more universal. It is of no evolutionary benefit for everybody to be smart, and may be detrimental.

Anonymous EH November 23, 2016 4:05 PM  

Even with people within 1 s.d., at the top of the range one likely has specific interests that very few others have. As a jackleg generalist, though, I find there is usually some area of overlap in my interests with whomever I may meet.

Still, it would be nice to meet someone who could teach me something about my more abstruse interests.

Anonymous BGKB November 23, 2016 4:17 PM  

Even the "like your dress" move is fraught with perils

People might think you are a liberal guy that wants to wear it in a little girls bathroom.

There are many aspects to being able to connect dots to solve difficult problems or to simply see what's really at hand

I blame the black nurse getting on the plane while having ebola symptoms on testing. She was not mentally capable to get to the starting point of: "You have symptoms of Ebola, just like the patient you treated this week. Should you A. Get on a plane, B. Get on a plane & insist on being bumped to 1st class because you have a fever, C. THE CORRECT ANSWER, D. Drink some booze, E. All of the above". If she was smart enough to recognize the symptoms she might have chosen differently.

Anonymous Discard November 23, 2016 4:43 PM  

18. Casey: In the military, the smart learn the limits of their fellow E-3s and respect them. They don't hate you for being bright, they'll hate you for rubbing their noses in it. Don't show off. Carry your share of the shitty work. Listen to your comrades. They know things you don't. It is their world, you know. They'll still think you're weird, but they'll accept you.
A semi-literate once saved my life. Had he thought I was an asshole, I'd be dead.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor November 23, 2016 4:48 PM  

@111 It's not really all that often that I'm spectacularly wrong... but the Ebola scare was one of those times, as I thought it was going to be rampant by 2015.

Anonymous patrick kelly November 23, 2016 4:56 PM  

I often feel like I'm trying to discuss and understand stuff with someone who just wants to wear the I'm smarter crown. I really don't care anymore.

I'ts ok if I'm wrong about something. It's ok if someone tells me I'm wrong even if I'm not. It's ok if other people are wrong.

My honest take on my intelligence is that after being tagged with the gifted minor lable and a 140-ish IQ in elementary school, drugs, alcohol, and mental anguish have beaten it down to 120-ish by the time I finished H.S, so I'm a midwit at best, and this blog has helped me embrace and understand what it means.

voxday.blogspot.com and whiskey are the keys to my happiness now.

Blogger Roger Hill November 23, 2016 4:56 PM  

Now I have documentation on why I regularly prefer to be alone.

Irritation from attempts to correct non-errors can apply on a spectrum of intelligence. People with average intelligence roll their eyes and raise their voices when someone of low intelligence keeps asking stupid questions.

Blogger Johnny November 23, 2016 4:56 PM  

From what I have seen of people, most would rather be wrong than lectured to. And that is often true of both the smart and stupid sort. Unless I can say it quickly or anticipat the person will be interested, I don't get into correcting people.

Blogger Roger Hill November 23, 2016 4:58 PM  

My last post was tongue in cheek, by the way.

Anonymous Discard November 23, 2016 5:08 PM  

Even average schoolteachers regularly deal with people much less intelligent than themselves, if for no more reason than age. The interest, and fun, is in adapting your own understanding to make things explicable to your intellectual inferiors. I put long hours every week into coming up with methods that worked. Teaching 13 year olds was the best job I ever had.

Anonymous VFM #6306 November 23, 2016 6:34 PM  

Feynman was no genius. George W. Bush range.

Anonymous Discard November 23, 2016 6:52 PM  

119. VFM #6306: Not a genius, just a Nobel Laureate in physics? That is not G.W. Bush range.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 23, 2016 7:27 PM  

Since this thread has basically devolved to competitive sperging, I offer this NASA competition to all the geniuses. It's appropriate, it's on topic, and the deadline is December 20.

Blogger tuberman November 23, 2016 7:32 PM  

119,

Feynman's IQ was never measured as an adult, only as a child.

Blogger Ned November 23, 2016 7:59 PM  

VD: Thanks - that post nailed it for me.

Blogger Samuel Nock November 23, 2016 9:22 PM  

Aaron Cleary's "Curse of High IQ" provides some life strategies on this question.

https://www.amazon.com/Curse-High-IQ-Aaron-Clarey-ebook/dp/B01BG9VV1U/ref=cm_cr-mr-title

Blogger Doc Rampage November 23, 2016 10:02 PM  

If you are good at solving problems, you ought to be able to solve the problem of socializing with people who are less intelligent than you. When I became suitably motivated (by the fact that there weren't a lot of women in my IQ range), I came up with the following:

1. Restrict your vocabulary to short words with Germanic roots.
2. Don't discuss anything except other people, sports, and entertainment (but not books).
3. Use occasional random complements in a joking way.
4. Ask lots of questions.
5. If they ask you what you do, change the subject ASAP.

This works very well, with men as well as women. It can be tiring though.

Blogger Scott6584 November 23, 2016 10:30 PM  

Doc Rampage wrote:If you are good at solving problems, you ought to be able to solve the problem of socializing with people who are less intelligent than you. When I became suitably motivated (by the fact that there weren't a lot of women in my IQ range), I came up with the following:

1. Restrict your vocabulary to short words with Germanic roots.

2. Don't discuss anything except other people, sports, and entertainment (but not books).

3. Use occasional random complements in a joking way.

4. Ask lots of questions.

5. If they ask you what you do, change the subject ASAP.

This works very well, with men as well as women. It can be tiring though.



It helps to learn to actually care about the other person.

Blogger Doc Rampage November 23, 2016 10:54 PM  

"It helps to learn to actually care about the other person"

An excellent point. Also, when I started asking questions, I remember being surprised at how interesting other people's lives were.

Blogger Zeroh Tollrants November 23, 2016 11:10 PM  

I have gone weeks, months, without speaking to more than two or three people, and that's including phone calls, in person interactions, and online interactions. I truly do not need any contact with other people to be content. However, it took until I was over 40 until I reached this level of complete isolation. Mostly I find people exhausting, regardless of IQ levels. I'm either intelligent or a hermit. Whatevs.

Blogger Scott6584 November 23, 2016 11:38 PM  

Zeroh Tollrants wrote:I have gone weeks, months, without speaking to more than two or three people, and that's including phone calls, in person interactions, and online interactions. I truly do not need any contact with other people to be content. However, it took until I was over 40 until I reached this level of complete isolation. Mostly I find people exhausting, regardless of IQ levels. I'm either intelligent or a hermit. Whatevs.

So, go all the way, and stop communicating online also.

Anonymous Reader November 24, 2016 3:49 AM  

Interesting to hear the existential angst of the intelligent.

Thank Lord, that the highly intelligent people I live and have lived with show a relatively happy and well balanced life. Maybe some humility helps, little bit of patience for other people too. And they being relatively good looking too, mean they miss a lot in the dating game.

But yes, I agree they are rather introvert.

I don't know my IQ myself, but maybe there is such a thing as intelligence osmosis. But for sure, they are generally always happy to "teach" me when I ask.


Anonymous Reader November 24, 2016 3:52 AM  

Should have written: means they do not miss a lot in the dating game.

Blogger wreckage November 24, 2016 6:52 AM  

@130, usually it's better to be teachable than to be high IQ, and it's also important to remember than no amount of genius will give you specific skill-sets. Anyone can be skilled, even if only a few people can be noticeably high IQ.

I'm a smidgin above average IQ but I have a series of tricks with metaphor, vocabulary, and visualization that let me keep up OK with properly smart guys by using mental models. Obviously, no substitute for the real thing ;)

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 24, 2016 8:43 AM  

Cail Corishev wrote:That's the main reason I don't discuss politics outside this group. When you're used to talking about things like historical cycles and the effect of the socio-sexual hierarchy on the election, how do you (and why would you) talk to people whose political knowledge stops at "Republicans hate poor people"? It's not just that they're intellectually incurious; it's that they don't see a need to be curious about it, and would probably be offended by the suggestion that they should.

Oh so much this. I just stay away from it entirely; not even rhetoric. There's just no way for it to go well - for me. I may just voice a simple agreement if they, for instance, support Trump, even if they don't really understand what's going on. But otherwise I avoid it altogether.

Blogger Duke Norfolk November 24, 2016 8:51 AM  

Zeroh Tollrants wrote:Mostly I find people exhausting, regardless of IQ levels. I'm either intelligent or a hermit. Whatevs.

Me too.

Anonymous ScarletNumber November 24, 2016 11:37 AM  

@47

In your wife's defense, you are a terrible friend.

Blogger Doc Rampage November 24, 2016 12:04 PM  

"It helps to learn to actually care about the other person"

An excellent point. Also, when I started asking questions, I remember being surprised at how interesting other people's lives were.

Blogger Greg Hunt November 24, 2016 1:05 PM  

"If you are highly intelligent and are having trouble attracting pretty girls, there are three or four or five things that shouldnt be too hard for the highly intelligent to do to break out of that problem"

I make a point of not saying anything. Don't sperg. Women don't care about anything at all so long as they're having fun. Be flirty, engage witty rejoinders, don't be serious. Save the serious conversations for men.

Anonymous Anonymous November 25, 2016 7:35 AM  

He who increases wisdom, increases sorrow.

Blogger technovelist November 25, 2016 11:58 AM  

At some point in the upper reaches of intelligence, you have to get used to people being considerably less intelligent than you are. But it is still a great relief when you find someone you can talk to without having to explain everything!

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable November 26, 2016 12:54 AM  

krymneth wrote:I've also phrased this as being "asocial, but not anti-social". There's a difference.

I prefer to tell people that I'm a "gregarious introvert." It sometimes gets a laugh, and pretty much covers all of the possibilities right there.

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