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Monday, November 14, 2016

WANTS to burn it down?

What do they think happened on November 8th? I would say that we are well on the way toward burning American politics as we knew it to the ground, as the ongoing conservative freak-out over the Alt-Right's rise, as most recently signified by Steve Bannon's assignation as Chief White House Strategist.
The Alt-Right wants to burn American politics to the ground.

The Alt-Right most immediately opposes conservatism, as Youth for Western Civilization founder Kevin Deanna explained in his Taki’s Magazine and AlternativeRight.com piece titled “The Impossibility of Conservatism.” The Alt-Right contains a who’s-who of right-wing voices that have been “purged” from the conservative movement by William F. Buckley and National Review, like Peter Brimelow and John Derbyshire, and Alt-Right leaders like Vox Day described the movement in an interview as “the heirs to those like the John Birch Society who were read out of the conservative movement.” Steve Bannon, who refashioned the website of conservative icon Andrew Breitbart into “the platform for the Alt-Right,” has encouraged activists to “turn on the hate” and “burn this bitch down.”

But while conservatism is its most immediate target, the Alt-Right seeks to destroy a far older, more central American idea referenced frequently by Ronald Reagan and dating back beyond Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address and Alexis de Tocqueville’s Democracy In America to John Winthrop’s “City On A Hill” sermon: America as a proposition nation.
As John Red Eagle and I chronicled in detail in Cuckservative: How "Conservatives" Betrayed America, conservatism has not only failed, it was always doomed to eventual failure by virtue of its very nature. It was an attitude and a defensive posture, not a coherent ideology or an identity, and it lacked positive objectives, so it never had any hope of resisting the relentless ideological onslaught of the Left.

And the concept of America as a proposition nation is not only historically false, it is logically and empirically untrue. It's trivially easy to demonstrate with a number of different logical syllogisms. For example:
  1. X agrees with, and subscribes to, the proposition that defines America.
  2. X is not an American citizen.
  3. Therefore, X's American citizenship does not rely upon the proposition.
  4. Y disagrees with, and rejects, the proposition that defines America.
  5. Y is an American citizen.
  6. Therefore, Y's American citizenship does not rely upon the proposition.
  7. Neither an American's citizenship, nor a non-citizen's lack of citizenship depends upon his acceptance, or rejection, of the proposition.
  8. Therefore America is not a proposition nation.
Notice that this all-important proposition is never actually defined. The proposition is hinted at, alluded to, and various names are dropped, but the proposition itself remains nebulous. It's not a coincidence that this lack of definition is precisely the same as the way the Left fails to define what is, and what is not, politically correct, or morally right, because in all three cases, there is a void at the center that allows the non-definer to play the role as subjective judge rather than permit any objective observer to do so on the basis of a specific, identifiable definition.

There is no proposition. There is no such thing as a nation based on a proposition. And there is no such thing as a nation based on a nonexistent proposition. All the concept of "the proposition nation" was intended to do was to destroy the actual, material, cultural, Christian, ethnic American nation on behalf of the second-wave immigrants to the United States, who did not belong to the nation, but wanted to be able to claim that they did.

On a tangential note, the author of The Nine Laws, Ivan Throne, did an interview entitled Your Future Under the God-Emperor with Troublesome Radio.

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124 Comments:

Blogger William Meisheid November 14, 2016 10:37 AM  

Re: "It's not a coincidence that this lack of definition is precisely the same as the way the Left fails to define what is, and what is not, politically correct, or morally right, because in all three cases, there is a void at the center that allows the non-definer to play the role as subjective judge rather than permit any objective observer to do so."

That hits the nail directly on the head and drives it home in one fell strike. This should be hammered home at every opportunity, since it in one sentence delegitimizes the Left/Progressives/Political Correctness/et al.

Anonymous Homesteader November 14, 2016 10:41 AM  

“Just because the cat had kittens in the oven, it don’t make ‘em biscuits.”

Blogger Student in Blue November 14, 2016 10:41 AM  

Weird, now they're trying to pin Kek on the Alt-Right as well?

It's as if these people don't have a clue. Remarkable.

Blogger Chris Mallory November 14, 2016 10:42 AM  

"1488. (That phrase contains 14 words, while 8 refers to the eighth letter of the alphabet, H, which doubled represents “Heil Hitler.”)"

They get part of it right, but the 88 stands for the "88 Precepts". Both the 14 Words and the 88 Precepts were written by David Lane.

I love how they ignore that Breitbart has a whole page devoted to spreading Tel Aviv's lies.

Anonymous Viidad November 14, 2016 10:48 AM  

Ivan is cool.

Anonymous Viidad November 14, 2016 10:49 AM  

I used to call myself a true conservative. Now I am no conservative at all.

Blogger bob kek mando ( I are Spartacus ... and you can too! C'mon, give it a try, these crosses are way more comfy than they look ) November 14, 2016 10:50 AM  

our claws are sharp
our teeth are red
the world is cruel
...
and your belly is so, so soft.

http://s46.photobucket.com/user/bobkmando/media/canbeentrails_zpshpmnluwp.jpg.html?o=1

Anonymous An Extremely Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than A Basket Of Twenty Deplorable Cents November 14, 2016 10:51 AM  

The pure pearl-clutching, collapsing onto the fainting couch, hysteria of that article is summed up in the sentence.

The Alternative Right asks conservatives to trade God for racial identity, liberty for strongman statism, and the unique American idea that “all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights” for a cartoon Nazi frog.

As opposed to the cuckservative approach; trade God for plutocratic bureaucracy, liberty for neo-Maoist Political Correctness and the idea of a unique American nation for an endless line of African orphans.

People who couldn't conserve their way out of a ladies bathroom have no place in handing out advice to anyone else.

The meltdowns will continue until morale improves?
My morale is just like the Trump train: Fine!

Trump 2016 for the LOLZ!

Blogger Chris Mallory November 14, 2016 10:52 AM  

"If you are attacked physically by liberals"

They will find out that old, fat, crippled up white men usually carry guns.

Anonymous Proposition November 14, 2016 10:55 AM  

There is no proposition. There is no such thing as a nation based on a proposition.

Hey, sailor, new in town? Looking for a little action, or a nation?

Blogger Bard November 14, 2016 10:59 AM  

That is why PC is the speak of the SJW. Always shifting definitions with no concrete positions. It allows them to define immoral and evil ideologies with words such as blue, left, Democrat and never face what they truly represent. It is an excellent example of calling evil good.

Anonymous Bentley November 14, 2016 11:00 AM  

CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE. Trump is not the REAL president. We do not accept him and never will. We will not stop fighting until the Trump is removed from office. People of Color and women and homosexuals will bring all you down

Blogger Nathan Wright November 14, 2016 11:02 AM  

The (((chutzpah))) of referencing de Tocqueville, who was explicit that the American democracy only worked due to the commonality of race and religion in its citizens.

Blogger Elizabeth November 14, 2016 11:02 AM  

Wasn't the late, unlamented (by most people) Soviet Union based upon a "proposition"?

Blogger VD November 14, 2016 11:04 AM  

The (((chutzpah))) of referencing de Tocqueville, who was explicit that the American democracy only worked due to the commonality of race and religion in its citizens.

Good point. Would you mind providing us with a conclusive quote or two?

Blogger slarrow November 14, 2016 11:05 AM  

I too thought we were a proposition nation based on principles until Vox brought that down with a simple observation. If memory serves, it was "if an American disagrees with the proposition, do we kick him out? And if so, to where?" Game, set, match.

And the undefined "proposition" serves the same role as "social justice": the terms aren't there to have content, just to signal that We are the Good People.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 14, 2016 11:06 AM  

@12
CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE.

TRUMP WON THE UNPOPULAR VOTE!

FOR THE LOLZ!

Anonymous bgkb November 14, 2016 11:09 AM  

Are you guys going to see the new BLOCKBUSTER Star Wars movie, Rogue One.

In Star Trek Mary Sue Rouge One the empire is white privilege. http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2016/11/boycottrogueone-writers-of-new-stars.html
" Writers of New 'Stars War' Film, in Anti-Trump Rant, Say Evil Empire = White Supremacy; Multiracial Rebellion Led by Woman = Good "

CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE. Trump is not the REAL president.

TRUMP won the popular vote by over 700,000. That's even with millions of illegals voting.

Blogger Elizabeth November 14, 2016 11:13 AM  

John Jay would disagree with the idea that American is a proposition nation for all the world (from Federalist Papers No. 2):

With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people--a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.

This country and this people seem to have been made for each other, and it appears as if it was the design of Providence, that an inheritance so proper and convenient for a band of brethren, united to each other by the strongest ties, should never be split into a number of unsocial, jealous, and alien sovereignties.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed02.asp

Blogger pyrrhus November 14, 2016 11:14 AM  

Trump tackles the student loan problem...https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/trump-tackles-student-loans/

Blogger Nick S November 14, 2016 11:15 AM  

People of Color and women and homosexuals will bring all you down

Once you convert all the pro-Trump people of color, women and homosexuals to your cause get back with us and remind us of how irresistibly powerful your contingent is so we can worry about it properly.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 14, 2016 11:23 AM  

CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE. Trump is not the REAL president.

TRUMP WON THE DEPLORABLE VOTE! The Trump Train is FINE!

Anonymous VFM#1819 November 14, 2016 11:23 AM  

@Nick S

Once the deportations start (((their))) pool of "revolutionaries" will quickly shrivel and die.

Anonymous Athor Pel November 14, 2016 11:32 AM  

"19. Blogger Elizabeth November 14, 2016 11:13 AM
John Jay would disagree with the idea that American is a proposition nation for all the world (from Federalist Papers No. 2):
...
This country and this people seem to have been made for each other, and it appears as if it was the design of Providence, that an inheritance so proper and convenient for a band of brethren, united to each other by the strongest ties, should never be split into a number of unsocial, jealous, and alien sovereignties.
..."



"seem" and "appear". Gamma language.

"...unsocial, jealous, and alien sovereignties" Yankees.

Yes it illustrates the point but there has to be better out there.

Blogger M Cephas November 14, 2016 11:32 AM  

Are you arguing that citizenship alone makes you American, whether you accept the proposition or not. Therefore not a proposition nation?

Am I missing something here?

Blogger Johnny November 14, 2016 11:32 AM  

VFM#1819 wrote:@Nick S

Once the deportations start (((their))) pool of "revolutionaries" will quickly shrivel and die.


Along with the people who leave, those left behind will, feeling more secure, chill out.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 14, 2016 11:32 AM  

Death to political correctness

Anonymous fish November 14, 2016 11:34 AM  

The Alt-Right wants to burn American politics to the ground.

Ok! Good so far......

Blogger VD November 14, 2016 11:34 AM  

Are you arguing that citizenship alone makes you American, whether you accept the proposition or not. Therefore not a proposition nation?

That's a separate matter. Here I'm taking down their position syllogistically on the basis of their own assumptions. I do not consider citizenship to be synonymous with nationality myself.

Blogger Basil Makedon November 14, 2016 11:36 AM  

Of course we all want to burn US politics to the ground and start over. What's worth preserving? The manifest incompetence, the graft, the cronyism, the nascent oligarchy, the debt, the lawlessness -- which part do they want to keep exactly?

Blogger Alexander November 14, 2016 11:41 AM  

Actual citizenship is like your SMV: you can influence it, but ultimately it's your neighbors who have the final say.

Blogger RobertT November 14, 2016 11:42 AM  

I am still keeping an eye out for a coherent statement of what the Conservative Movement embodies. IMO, the fact the leading limelights of the movement disagree about this lends credence to the presumption the movement itself existed in mind of William F. Buckley but was never flushed out. Conservatives are jumping under the bus in lost cause of a mythical creature.

Blogger Elizabeth November 14, 2016 11:43 AM  

@24 - Athor Pel
Maybe he was hedging his statement because Divine Providence didn't tell to him personally.

Blogger Tom K. November 14, 2016 11:43 AM  

And don't forget the millions of phoney ballots cast and the absentee ballots uncounted. Can't let or military actually have s vote. That's fascism.

Blogger Sheila4g November 14, 2016 11:47 AM  

If any writer un-ironically uses the terms "community," "proposition nation," "melting pot," or "that's not who we are," I know the writer's a cuck with a brain filled with leftist memes (and most likely hatred for me and mine).

As for the (((feminist dems))) plans for the White female vote, they'll do fine with the lesbians who physically and mentally torture their male children. The rest, even the perennial churchian nice ones, usually care (at least somewhat) for the future of their husbands and sons.

Blogger Phat Repat November 14, 2016 11:49 AM  

Thanks VD for the reference to Ivan Throne (The Nine Laws; just purchased). The introduction alone was a punch to the stomach. And caused reflection that perhaps I'm too soft with my own? Time to rethink the way forward.

Blogger Tom K. November 14, 2016 11:51 AM  

I really hate this growing language policing in Alt-Right.

Read Benjamin Franklin on the use of words like "seem" and "appears to me". No one could accuse him of being gamma. He was a red pill alpha into his 80s.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 14, 2016 11:52 AM  

I'm tired of cuckservatives and neocons claiming Reagan as their guide. Reagan may have had a "shining city on a hill" faith in America, but he also wasn't dealing with today's multicultural mess. He lived at a time when California still voted Republican. He wasn't a globalist like today's movement conservatives, and although he built up a strong military, he did it to defend against a specific, real threat. He didn't run around the globe using it to do social engineering like they want to. His conservatism was much more the white, small-town, self-sufficient, pro-America "gut conservatism" of men like Buchanan and Derbyshire, whom the conservative movement ran out of town. If Reagan were running today, they'd want nothing to do with him either.

They don't get to claim Reagan as one of theirs. They are Bush conservatives.

Blogger Wild Man November 14, 2016 11:53 AM  

Perhaps the meritocracy implied by the accurate definition of the egalitarian, may be eventually resurrected via the new identity politics (alt right), now occurring within the dominant culture.

After all, the common cultural denominator, among European cultures, better supports the ideology of the egalitarian (as accurately defined) and therefore there is stronger European tendency towards meritocracy, ..... and I propose that this common European cultural denominator (better tendency towards egalitarian mindset => meritocracy) is actually the expressed sweet spot of the dominant American culture.

The way I see it ...... there are some advantages that can accrue with a limited diversity, as long as said diversity is screened via the lense of the "egalitarian mindset => meritocracy". And of course, even if you buy this idea of limited meritocratic diversity (like I do), it is absolutely clear from a logical perspective that said meritocratic diversity must not grow to the point of overwhelming and subsuming the dominant culture (i.e. - do not slay the golden goose the better values merit, or all is lost).

But America has slowly begun to lose her way in precisely that way. In some American ventures, the meritocratic is still valued, but this is, in the main, not the case. And it has even been legislated so. Can America find her way again guided by a Trump presidency? Trump has the correct platform with respect to some of the more ruthless actions necessary to turn the ship (address the illegal immigration issue in the whole, then re-purpose immigration policy towards the meritocratic only ..... but over-weighted for those of European heritage ....... and choose only the secularized among those of merit sourced from the Islamic regions).

Now ..... that leaves the Jewish issue. As far as I can tell the Jewish mindset is geared towards commandeering the nerves that turn the head of whatever dominant culture Jews find themselves in. As such the Jewish mindset is not actually congruent with whatever the face it shows, appears to be. With respect to American culture, this is akin to the Jewish mindset as a foreign installation, showing itself as "egalitarian => meritocracy", but by logic cannot be that. This is the primary problem at hand. At this juncture it is best if any and all narratives spun by Jewish minds simply be ignored for the time being. But it is not clear how this will be possible. Not sure where Trump is on this aspect.

The Jewish mindset is indeed expansive, ... and creative .... (but also verbose, byzantine, labyrinth-like and paranoid), and has brought the west and the world many fruits ....... but .... this is not a Jewish world. I think it is destined to become a western world. It is destined to become that way by way of emphasizing "egalitarian => meritocracy". If the west again turns attention towards it's true endeavor, the world will naturally eventually follow on their own accord (we are all humans after all - we are all very much predisposed towards wanting a good thing when we see it, as such - our desire mimicking the desire of others, as long as tribalistic rhetoric doesn't hold sway)... of course this has already naturally been occurring over the last 50 odd years (despite our rotten western leadership that has sponsored globalism by covert coercion).

The Jewish mindset has a place in the western juggernaut, but not as the nerve center that turns the head of the dominant culture. This is not a Jewish world. It is destined to be a western world. Hopefully, eventually, the Jews will find their properly more symbiotic place in the western adventure.

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 14, 2016 11:54 AM  

Why just burn it down when you can nuke it from orbit?

Blogger Aeoli Pera November 14, 2016 11:55 AM  

The JQ is easy. They need to go back.

Blogger frigger611 November 14, 2016 11:56 AM  

I agree, Tom. I have often thought that Rs need an extra 6 million votes just to reach parity with Ds, as their roles are fattened by the dead, illegal aliens, and felons - none of whom should be voting.

And let's not fail to account for those on the left who vote multiple times, due to racist ID laws...(*ahem*)

All of the shenanigans listed above are well known and well documented, and yes, it means that the Democrat Party and the MSM are actively involved in usurping the will of the people, of rigging elections (to the best of their demonic abilities).

That we and Trump were able to fight off the beast is nothing short of a miracle. I am glad that the left is so eager to keep God on our side.

Blogger Christopher November 14, 2016 11:58 AM  

Longish quote via project Gutenberg's site:

The inhabitants of the United States talk a great deal of their attachment to their country; but I confess that I do not rely upon that calculating patriotism which is founded upon interest, and which a change in the interests at stake may obliterate. Nor do I attach much importance to the language of the Americans, when they manifest, in their daily conversations, the intention of maintaining the federal system adopted by their forefathers. A government retains its sway over a great number of citizens, far less by the voluntary and rational consent of the multitude, than by that instinctive, and to a certain extent involuntary agreement, which results from similarity of feelings and resemblances of opinion. I will never admit that men constitute a social body, simply because they obey the same head and the same laws. Society can only exist when a great number of men consider a great number of things in the same point of view; when they hold the same opinions upon many subjects, and when the same occurrences suggest the same thoughts and impressions to their minds.

The observer who examines the present condition of the United States upon this principle, will readily discover, that although the citizens are divided into twenty-four distinct sovereignties, they nevertheless constitute a single people; and he may perhaps be led to think that the state of the Anglo-American Union is more truly a state of society than that of certain nations of Europe which live under the same legislation and the same prince.

Although the Anglo-Americans have several religious sects, they all regard religion in the same manner. They are not always agreed upon the measures which are most conducive to good government, and they vary upon some of the forms of government which it is expedient to adopt; but they are unanimous upon the general principles which ought to rule human society. From Maine to the Floridas, and from the Missouri to the Atlantic Ocean, the people is held to be the legitimate source of all power. The same notions are entertained respecting liberty and equality, the liberty of the press, the right of association, the jury, and the responsibility of the agents of Government.

If we turn from their political and religious opinions to the moral and philosophical principles which regulate the daily actions of life and govern their conduct, we shall still find the same uniformity. The Anglo-Americans *d acknowledge the absolute moral authority of the reason of the community, as they acknowledge the political authority of the mass of citizens; and they hold that public opinion is the surest arbiter of what is lawful or forbidden, true or false. The majority of them believe that a man will be led to do what is just and good by following his own interest rightly understood. They hold that every man is born in possession of the right of self-government, and that no one has the right of constraining his fellow-creatures to be happy. They have all a lively faith in the perfectibility of man; they are of opinion that the effects of the diffusion of knowledge must necessarily be advantageous, and the consequences of ignorance fatal; they all consider society as a body in a state of improvement, humanity as a changing scene, in which nothing is, or ought to be, permanent; and they admit that what appears to them to be good to-day may be superseded by something better-to-morrow. I do not give all these opinions as true, but I quote them as characteristic of the Americans.
d 
[ It is scarcely necessary for me to observe that by the expression Anglo-Americans, I only mean to designate the great majority of the nation; for a certain number of isolated individuals are of course to be met with holding very different opinions.]

Chapter XVIII: Future Condition Of Three Races—Part VII
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/815/815-h/815-h.htm

Blogger flyingtiger November 14, 2016 11:59 AM  

The USA just needs a few changes. All we have to do is seriously enforce the present immigation laws and our country will be improved.

Blogger ZhukovG November 14, 2016 11:59 AM  

I have seen nothing to convince me that 'The Conservative Movement' wasn't created with the explicit goal of ultimately destroying traditional American culture by gradual corruption. This election alone shows that 'Conservatives' are far more detestable than Liberal Progressives.

The Liberal Progressives are honorable enough to at least be open about their enmity. The Conservatives however, claimed to be allies, but didn't hesitate to stab us in the back.

Burn it down.

Blogger pyrrhus November 14, 2016 12:02 PM  

@45 Traitors are always more dangerous than the declared enemy....

Anonymous patrick kelly November 14, 2016 12:02 PM  

Tom K. wrote:I really hate this growing language policing in Alt-Right.

Read Benjamin Franklin on the use of words like "seem" and "appears to me". No one could accuse him of being gamma. He was a red pill alpha into his 80s.


Yeah, I find myself editing my comments as if there was some culturally correct pressure or something appearing to be kinda' like that it seems. hahahha

But that's on me. I intend to use appears and seems as an honest check on my own ignorance and linguistic ineptitude. I don't want to contribute to squishy gamma-tude on the blog, but I also weary of language policing.

What to do, what to do. Apparently more whiskey is called for. Same as it ever was.

Anonymous kfg November 14, 2016 12:05 PM  

Dear Mr. Knowles,

If you don't want to get burnt, get out of the house.

Anonymous Credo_In_Unum_Deum November 14, 2016 12:06 PM  

Get it through your skulls that we are not only on the offensive, we are the barbarians camped-out in view of the towers of the "Progressive Utopia" city. With Trump's victory the ram has touched the wall. No more surrender will be accepted, no more negotiations will be done. If you don't laugh off the cries of, "Go away you racist misogynists pigs!!" Then you're NOT one of us!

You need to realize that they're crying because deep-down they know what's coming. I'd be crying having a total meltdown too if I looked around and saw the only guy to defend me was wearing a "Stronger Together" t-shirt and holding a sign that read, "Love Trumps Hate."

If you're not of the mentality of: "Let's storm the gates, slaughter both the weak men and the ugly women, breed with the attractive women, burn it all to the ground, and then build a new empire on top of the smoldering ruins."

THEN STEP ASIDE!!!

The Alt-Right's mentality, in song form...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiMaOmDtaYI

Blogger pyrrhus November 14, 2016 12:06 PM  

@44 Denninger's timetable to financial catastrophe if the healthcare monopoly isn't broken up...https://market-ticker.org

Blogger slarrow November 14, 2016 12:07 PM  

@37, I think it's a misunderstanding of historical and philosophical language. Keep in mind that Jay and Franklin are writing just about a century and a half after Descartes who famously taught us to distrust our perceptions. When writing about the possible motives of God, it's appropriate to use terms like "seems" and "appears" for their precision. I ran across that language a lot even in modern stuff when I studied philosophy, and it's there for the same reason: "I seem to see a table" is a different claim than "I see a table."

That training gave me a bit of trouble when Vox started pointing out the Gamma uses of that terminology. But the rhetoric/dialectic distinction really helps to identify what's happening. Lot of education going on here at VP and AG.

Anonymous Bo Sears November 14, 2016 12:07 PM  

There are hundreds of examples of naming & labeling used to cast shade on the American nation. Just changing from "my country" to "my homeland" is a good example of one way to slightly shift our understanding of who we are.

"Proposition Nation" and "Great Experiment" loosen the bonds that bind us one to another and to our country. Those two labels are propaganda points only, and I suspect simply ways to lead us into the impossible global & universal slavery of John Lennon's "Imagine," which will plant a boot on our necks and those of our descendants.

The best source for seeing the true nature of this republic is to carefully read the Articles of Confederation & Perpetual Union (in force 3/1/1781) which contains (more truly than the Declaration or the second & present Constitution) what the aspirations of the 13 unified colonies and their citizens were all about.

Human weasels and rats have been tearing those aspirations to rags, one way or another for 235 years, and their biggest success was drafting a new Constitution in secret with an executive form of government, when what we originally wanted was a congressional form of government.

Anonymous kfg November 14, 2016 12:12 PM  

" . . . the aspirations of the 13 unified colonies . . ."

Plus Vermont, which fought a three front war for independence against Britain, New York and New Hampshire.

Blogger Warren Yurmind November 14, 2016 12:17 PM  

President Thomas Jefferson- "Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion has drawn indelible lines of distinction between them." Jefferson's Autobiography


Democrat President Woodrow Wilson--- “[Reconstruction government was detested] not because the Republican Party was dreaded but because the dominance of an ignorant and inferior race was justly dreaded.”
“In the matter of Chinese and Japanese coolie immigration, I stand for the national policy of exclusion. We cannot make a homogenous population out of people who do not blend with the Caucasian race…Oriental Coolieism will give us another race problem to solve and surely we have had our lesson.”
“Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.”

“Segregation is not a humiliation but a benefit, and ought to be so regarded by you gentlemen.”
“Off by themselves with only a white supervisor, blacks would not be forced out of their jobs by energetic white employees.”
“The whole temper and tradition of the place [Princeton] are such that no Negro has ever applied for admission, and it seems unlikely that the question will ever assume practical form.”

“If the colored people made a mistake in voting for me, they ought to correct it.”
“The domestic slaves, at any rate, and almost all who were much under the master’s eye, were happy and well cared for.”
“Now came multitudes of men of the lowest class from the south of Italy, and men of the meaner sort out of Hungary and Poland, men out of the ranks, where there was neither skill nor energy nor any initiative of quick intelligence, and they came in numbers which increased from year to year, as if the countries of the south of Europe were disburdening themselves of the more sordid and hapless elements of their population.”




President Abraham Lincoln
"I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."
From 4th Lincoln/Douglas Debate, 1858

"There is no reason why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree he is not my equal in many respects- certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is the equal of every living man."
From 1st Lincoln/Douglas Debate, 1858


"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."

Blogger Warren Yurmind November 14, 2016 12:17 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Warren Yurmind November 14, 2016 12:18 PM  

a picture is worth a thousand words.
the White man made America https://postimg.org/image/41utoi541/

Europe vs Elsewhere http://postimg.org/image/nnjmbumb5/
slave vs non slaves http://postimg.org/image/6c8ngayy3/
equality http://postimg.org/image/6ajqsovcp/

crime is people https://postimg.org/image/i5r6wzbfr/
racist monkeys https://imgflip.com/i/1b39ez
diversity race social construct POTUS https://imgflip.com/i/18ne4s

Blogger Anchorman November 14, 2016 12:27 PM  

Eric Hoffer, The Ordeal of Change:

When a population undergoing drastic change is without abundant opportunities for individual action and self-advancement, it develops a hunger for faith, pride, and unity. It becomes receptive to all manner of proselytizing, and is eager to throw itself into collective undertakings which aim at “showing the world.” In other words, drastic change, under certain conditions, creates a proclivity for fanatical attitudes, united action, and spectacular manifestations of flouting and defiance; it creates an atmosphere of revolution.

Blogger M Cephas November 14, 2016 12:29 PM  

@29. "That's a separate matter. Here I'm taking down their position syllogistically on the basis of their own assumptions. I do not consider citizenship to be synonymous with nationality myself".

Okay, so an argument against the proposition nation idea. Not an argument for what makes someone American.

I'm interested in how the conservatives will respond to this, if they do.

Anonymous Anonymous November 14, 2016 12:37 PM  

VD wrote:Are you arguing that citizenship alone makes you American, whether you accept the proposition or not. Therefore not a proposition nation?

That's a separate matter. Here I'm taking down their position syllogistically on the basis of their own assumptions. I do not consider citizenship to be synonymous with nationality myself.


Can you explain that?

Blogger tz November 14, 2016 12:37 PM  

Pitchforks and TORCHES. What do they think the torches are for?

Blogger VD November 14, 2016 12:41 PM  

I really hate this growing language policing in Alt-Right.

It's not Alt-Right. It's just the overlap of Game and Alt-Right. Game is, for many men, the first step into the Alt-Right.

And it has nothing to do with texts from 200+ years ago.

I'm interested in how the conservatives will respond to this, if they do.

Most of them won't, because they can't. The few that do will rely upon a combination of appeals to emotion and word salad.

Anonymous Midwit November 14, 2016 12:41 PM  

"Can you explain that?"
Vox is an Italian citizen but he's not Italian.
Paperwork versus bloodline.

Blogger ace November 14, 2016 12:47 PM  

We should agree and amplify.

"Yes, let's make America a proposition nation. First, we need a proposition. Second, we'll purge the unbelievers."

Blogger Stilicho November 14, 2016 12:50 PM  

Responses to cuckservatives:
-You couldn't conserve perverts out of little girls' bathrooms.

-stfu and bake me a cake! It's what you do best.

-Proposition nation? Man proposes, God disposes.

-don't you love Derb's column in NRO this week...yeah, me too!

-irrelevant... not just a random adjective anymore...

-you have to ask yourself if conservatism is good for the shrews.

-patriotism doesn't stop at thr Rio Grande.

Anonymous kfg November 14, 2016 12:51 PM  

" . . . we'll purge the unbelievers."

That's what Canada has traditionally been for.

Anonymous Midwit November 14, 2016 12:52 PM  

The proposition most bandied about is that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 14, 2016 12:52 PM  

I'm interested in how the conservatives will respond to this, if they do.

Why, point and shreik "NAAAAAZZZZZIIIII", of course.

Anonymous bagger vance November 14, 2016 12:56 PM  

Well, i'm a little rusty on the other sources quoted, but the Gettysburg Address definition seems to be clearly "... the proposition that All Men Are Created Equal."

Leaving aside the HBD problems, the idea that by saying "all are equal" is somehow a confession of faith that confers American-ness upon the believer--much like "there is no god but allah" --seems to be a bit of a stretch, especially within historical context.

Blogger VD November 14, 2016 12:57 PM  

The proposition most bandied about is that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

So, all men are Americans? That's the only possibly conclusion from that proposition.

Anonymous bagger vance November 14, 2016 12:58 PM  

@65: lol, i think i can see why that quote is not brought up too often. "Creator"!?!?!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 14, 2016 12:59 PM  

The proposition most bandied about is that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Yet, the VAST majority of Americans, including the vast majority of Congressmen, Senators, Presidents and Supreme Court Justices never believed that "all men are created equal" in the sense that propnats believe.
Were they Americans?
Was George Washington an American? Thomas Jefferson? Abe Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? Woodrow Wilson? LBJ?

It's ludicrous on it's face.

Blogger Nathan Wright November 14, 2016 1:01 PM  

VD wrote:
Good point. Would you mind providing us with a conclusive quote or two?


Not sure if I can do the case justice.

He's a democracy skeptic:

I do not say that tyrannical abuses frequently occur in America at the present day, but I maintain that no sure barrier is established against them, and that the causes which mitigate the government are to be found in the circumstances and the manners of the country more than in its laws.

Christianity is central to restraining the tyranny of democracy:


Christianity, therefore, reigns without any obstacle, by universal consent; the consequence is, as I have before observed, that every principle of the moral world is fixed and determinate, although the political world is abandoned to the debates and the experiments of men. Thus the human mind is never left to wander across a boundless field; and, whatever may be its pretensions, it is checked from time to time by barriers which it cannot surmount. Before it can perpetrate innovation, certain primal and immutable principles are laid down, and the boldest conceptions of human device are subjected to certain forms which retard and stop their completion.

The imagination of the Americans, even in its greatest flights, is circumspect and undecided; its impulses are checked, and its works unfinished. These habits of restraint recur in political society, and are singularly favorable both to the tranquillity of the people and to the durability of the institutions it has established. Nature and circumstances concurred to make the inhabitants of the United States bold men, as is sufficiently attested by the enterprising spirit with which they seek for fortune. If the mind of the Americans were free from all trammels, they would very shortly become the most daring innovators and the most implacable disputants in the world. But the revolutionists of America are obliged to profess an ostensible respect for Christian morality and equity, which does not easily permit them to violate the laws that oppose their designs; nor would they find it easy to surmount the scruples of their partisans, even if they were able to get over their own. Hitherto no one in the United States has dared to advance the maxim, that everything is permissible with a view to the interests of society; an impious adage which seems to have been invented in an age of freedom to shelter all the tyrants of future ages. Thus whilst the law permits the Americans to do what they please, religion prevents them from conceiving, and forbids them to commit, what is rash or unjust.

Religion in America takes no direct part in the government of society, but it must nevertheless be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of free institutions. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief. I do not know whether all the Americans have a sincere faith in their religion, for who can search the human heart? but I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or to a party, but it belongs to the whole nation, and to every rank of society.

Blogger Nathan Wright November 14, 2016 1:01 PM  


He also identifies (in 1830) the north-south split over slavery as potentially fatal to the republic. He's also (no surprise) a (in SJW parlance) white supreeeemist:

The human beings who are scattered over this space do not form, as in Europe, so many branches of the same stock. Three races, naturally distinct, and, I might almost say, hostile to each other, are discoverable amongst them at the first glance. Almost insurmountable barriers had been raised between them by education and by law, as well as by their origin and outward characteristics; but fortune has brought them together on the same soil, where, although they are mixed, they do not amalgamate, and each race fulfils its destiny apart.

Amongst these widely differing families of men, the first which attracts attention, the superior in intelligence, in power and in enjoyment, is the white or European, the man pre-eminent; and in subordinate grades, the negro and the Indian.


Sorry, that's the best I can do at the moment.

Blogger Shimshon November 14, 2016 1:11 PM  

@54 You know, re-reading Lincoln's words, they are proto-alt-right. It was pretty progressive for the day. Pretty much, nearly full civil rights, no political rights. The country would be a lot better off if that arrangement were ever successfully implemented.

Blogger tz November 14, 2016 1:22 PM  

Louis Farrakan and Al Sharpton are also racist and you can find many more. Why isn't that bad?
Depending on the subsection, Jews are anti-American and it is hardly anti-Semitism to call them out on it.
5. Projecting. The Alt-Right is the only truly Christian group on the right. The churchianity with the nice Jesus - no Passion of the Christ - no requirement to accept Jesus and go the narrow way. Reaching out to fornicators and divorcees (aka single mothers) without demanding repentance, sackcloth and ashes isn't Christian. Pushing disorder by helping illegals isn't Christian. A small section wants Christendom without Christ.

The first smoking crater was the RNC/GOPe apparatus. There are still a few refugees, but we'll see if Paul RINO and Mitch McCuckold last very long. I think Priebus is part of the magnanimity, since he came around early, but it is clear now who runs things. I look at Priebus as proconsul to the land of the conquered cucks.

The second smoking crater was the DNC and whatever is left of the democrats. The only thing left of the left are the idealist Bern-outs.

The third smoking crater is the legacy Media - the talking heads, the "newspaper of record", the Clinton News network, the push pollsters. They used to at least have a facade of fairness that they could try to hide behind. This time I think they believed their own propaganda. Oh, Hemlock Hillary wasn't poisonous?

I expect the next smoking crater to be Wall Street. They will crash the economy but will be surprised when they are not only NOT bailed out, they are arrested for securities fraud and manipulation.

The huge, monolithic towers are falling as did the Tower of Babel. There are - to use a cuck term - a thousand points of life to replace it. It wasn't just that they turned off the dinosaur institutions, it is that they tuned into the new.

Brexit was Trenton, Trump was Saratoga, but there's more to do. Like Britain, the left and cucks now have to fight across an ocean. And when we win, a lot of the comfortable crap will go away, but we will have exchanged our stupor for our soul.

Empirical evidence is a bitch. Aristotle says let reason be silent when it is obviously wrong.

If you define the "proposition" as original intent constitutionalism, and deported everyone who rejects it, America would go from being 55% white to 90% or more white.

If you reject the "white" aspect, go, be a missionary for the "proposition", but the real one, a Christian which offers the good news but doesn't sugar-coat it, not a churchian. I don't have to convert many whites, and you can't convert traitors. Conduct the experiment on your own time and own dime. I've been impoverished through the taxation theft trying to - I'm not sure what. Go to Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore and fix those citizens. Do your Pygmalion. I really wish you success. I hope I'm wrong and would love to discover such.

If you refuse to put your blood, sweat, and tears to support your view on "the proposition" by doing the necessary things to restore it to the 50 million who don't merely reject it but hate it, why should I believe you were sincere?

The Alt-Right's victory was bought at a price, and it will require effort to maintain. We've embraced the Left's accusation - yes, racist, sexist, etc. The left has nothing else to throw at us. Except a perverted proposition. "Equality" (think affirmative action). "Liberty" (think abortion and gay marriage). "Unity" (Hillary won the majority of votes, even though many were illegal). (Social) "Justice". I refuse to give the left that weapon. Maybe our children and grandchildren can return to a higher level, but we must first bear them and (home)school them to be able to do so.

Blogger buwaya November 14, 2016 1:26 PM  

Speaking as someone entirely outside this debate, being by constitution and ancestry an imperialist (is that a globalist? If so, I am not the nice sort of globalist) -

Your problem is with the concept of political ideology itself. Anytime you try to define such a thing you run into dissent and confusion, as these things can't be defined in such a way as to please everyone. And its worse when some promise of power is the prize. This is why the left is always breaking up into factions. They, foolish people, have an ideology.

Conservatism has had a lot of definers over the years, who have tried to build a box around the concept. The best definition of conservatism, as a general thing, is an anti-ideology.

Americanism is indeed an ideology, of a sort, and it is probably best understood by people looking from the outside into the fish tank and perceiving the difference between air and water, not to the fish in the tank. This is, as noted, not a definable set of propositions but rather a set of propositions plus a worldview and a cultural context. That said, this is not unteachable.

Catholicism and Islam for instance are likewise a set of propositions plus a worldview and a culture. These can be and have been taught to large populations across a vast range of substrate cultures.

The US used to be quite good at teaching immigrants this ideology, as France also was at teaching Germans, Poles, Hungarians and Italians to be Frenchmen.

But this required actually teaching Americanism, which has become unfashionable. You used to be very good at it though. Back in our old third-world backwater we memorized Longfellow and could sing "Hail Columbia!", leftovers of imperialism. This works, but you won't find it in US schools anymore.

You were stabbed in the back by your own intellectuals.

Blogger tz November 14, 2016 1:30 PM  

You want the proposition?

Men are fallen and subject to not mere concupiscence for small compromises, but any power is at best a slow poison, and at worst will turn the most sainted into a devil in short order. That is why we needed federalism as tyranny can differ for each state, and why there are three branches with the legislature split in two so they would fight each other for power and never allow it to concentrate. It takes a deeply rooted biblical view of this from the citizenry as Christians are naturally suspect of power, and beyond that a deep desire for individual virtue.

If you agree with the proposition, you should immediately start working to undo the 16th and 17th amendments. Period. One quick test. There are many more.

Equality? equally bad.
Liberty? will descend to licentiousness.
Pursuit of Happiness? debauchery.


Blogger tz November 14, 2016 1:38 PM  

To look at the proposition - How can you govern when man is so badly fallen?

When you look at the government we have, "WANTS to burn it down" is the only proper reaction. "Faster, please". You'd be more libertarian than 90% at LewRockwell.com or Mises.com.

Anonymous Midwit November 14, 2016 1:40 PM  

"So, all men are Americans?"
All people who believe the proposition about all men. On the bright side, they have to believe in a Creator.

Blogger Mother Effingby November 14, 2016 1:48 PM  

Clarice Feldman @ America Thinker has a good name for the left. If we are Alt-R they are CTRL-L.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/11/ctrll_the_left_loses_its_unremitting_fight_for_control.html

Blogger Wild Man November 14, 2016 1:49 PM  

VD: "The proposition most bandied about is that 'all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.' So, all men are Americans? That's the only possibly conclusion from that proposition."

Yes - that is the natural eventuality, as outlined in my comment #39.

Anonymous Tipsy November 14, 2016 1:55 PM  

@81: RE CTRL-L. Philosopher Eric Voegelin describes the principle characteristic of the gnostic Left as "Libido Dominandi" - the desire to dominate and control. So it fits will.

Blogger Cail Corishev November 14, 2016 2:00 PM  

So, all men are Americans?

That's pretty much what Bush conservatives believe, whether or not they put it that plainly. Bush preached that all people want to be free -- in the American sense of the term, of course -- so they're basically Americans in larval form, and just need to be introduced to the wonders of democracy and women's so that they can emerge as full-grown Americans.

It's what they mean when they call Hispanics "natural conservatives," except then they're being even more specific: they're not only proto-American on the inside, but a particular kind of American.

Blogger Wild Man November 14, 2016 2:16 PM  

#82, CC said: "So, all men are Americans?

That's pretty much what Bush conservatives believe, whether or not they put it that plainly. Bush preached that all people want to be free -- in the American sense of the term, of course -- so they're basically Americans in larval form, and just need to be introduced to the wonders of democracy and women's so that they can emerge as full-grown Americans."

Bush 2 misunderstood. The "egalitarian =. meritocracy" implied by the American ideals (which are western ideals), cannot be spoon-fed by way of a sponsoring of globalism by covert coercion. That is a neocon conception(as fashioned by the Jewish mindset). No .... as a natural eventuality, all men become Americans by way of the U.S. (and other western nations) marking the course, and other nations will eventually naturally follow once their populaces grasp the advantages of western ideals. But any coercion (neocon or otherwise) in that direction is antithetical to the primacy of self-agency as upheld by the western ideology.

Blogger dc.sunsets November 14, 2016 2:30 PM  

@50 Pyrrhus...and anyone else who is interested in arithmetic reality:

This website is among the nifty ones that will let you model what happens to bond values in a rising-rate environment. https://www.easycalculation.com/finance/bond-price-calculator.php
You just input your assumptions for one rate, then change the rate to see the difference in capital value. For 35 straight years the rate decrease, so bond capital values went UP. Yay, debt!

From the rate lows of this past July to now, if you assume there's ~$1Q (yes, that's quadrillion) in total US dollar-denominated debt outstanding then over $80T in value was lost over just the past four months. That is most of the total theoretical value of WORLD GDP.

If (big IF) the rise in rates is the beginning of a trend toward lower bond values, the game has changed. If this is so, we are all living at the foot of a Krakatoa, a Mt. Saint Helens, a Mt. Vesuvius. Boo, debt!

The entire structure of our debt-based economy is mathematically unsustainable at interest rates that are still below "normal," much less "stressed."

Denninger is wrong. Pulling the plug on the Medical Cartel won't fix things (neither will leaving it alone, however.) It will precipitate what must happen anyway. The avalanche must occur....the vast existing overhang guarantees it.

Blogger tz November 14, 2016 2:30 PM  

My observation that if there is a proposition, it is "Men are Fallen (and not to be trusted with power)" cuts across most of the arguments, both dialectically and rhetorically.

(For non-Christians, I'd point to the clearly observable fact that passions - especially lust, anger, gluttony, sloth, envy, pride, greed - rule reason so creates rationalizations)

Are (((some people))) in positions of power in entertainment, finance, and the media? Burn them out of their castles.

Are blacks, LGBTQs, and others using the government to steal my wealth and force my behavior? Burn!

Are some in power ignoring the law allowing illegal immigrants to come in and take jobs to make a few rich? Burn!

Do we have a "rule of law" or a uniparty political machine that protects its own while crushing whistleblowers or anyone who opposes their evil (Bundys)? Burn!

Few whites would disagree with my version of "the proposition". It may be generations of experience and Christendom.

Western Civilization may depend on it.

We watch Venezuela, Zimbabwe, or even either Korea, Japan, India, or China. And say "not in my back yard".

Cromwell burned the King. The Nobles burned the King's power with the Magna Charta. The US colonies burned George 3.

Whites are used to burning out those who have concentrated power to themselves. Not always in the wisest form (WW1 and WW2).

Blogger Salt November 14, 2016 2:33 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:Bush preached that all people want to be free -- in the American sense of the term, of course -- so they're basically Americans in larval form

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG8EpY_eovE

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz November 14, 2016 2:35 PM  

On the technical note: no burning. You tried burning at the stake, HRC and feminazi survived.
As East European I strongly suggest an impaling. They will die longer, scream louder and their support would run away faster and more scarred…

Blogger tz November 14, 2016 2:38 PM  

I would also note Lincoln totally violated the Proposition as I described it, both by initially proposing to make slavery permanent, and by starting a war of conquest - both concentrate power.

Blogger tz November 14, 2016 2:40 PM  

@87 - I stand corrected. It would also help them get the point.

Anonymous Clueless Cuckservative November 14, 2016 2:44 PM  

"So, all men are Americans?"
All people who believe the proposition about all men


Muh Emma Lazarus! Muh natural conservatives!

Blogger Kyle Searle November 14, 2016 2:47 PM  

The real issue is the lack of a common philosophy amongst the population. I feel that the philosophy of religion, and how it molds the morality of the individual, is more important than the faith from the perspective of society. Without the shared morality there's no common ethical position and we find that we don't have a direction as a people anymore.

Blogger Student in Blue November 14, 2016 2:52 PM  

@tz

Some people need the pointers. They are, after, "up the pole".

Blogger Robert What? November 14, 2016 3:05 PM  

@Vox,

The proposition most bandied about is that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Most people don't understand that the Founders meant "equal before God". Not equal in terms of anything else.

Blogger Bard November 14, 2016 3:17 PM  

All,
Vox mentioned it at the end, but listen to the Ivan Throne podcast. Quite excellent.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan November 14, 2016 3:32 PM  

No one believes in equality it's rhetoric used as a scam

Blogger Elocutioner November 14, 2016 3:45 PM  

"CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE."

She barely won a plurality of the official popular vote - 47.8%. Which is greater than Bill's 1992 tally of 43.0% but less than his 1996 tally of 49.2%. No Clinton has ever won a majority of the popular vote. And, now, none ever will.

So President Trump is more legitimate than Bill Clinton.

Suck it, shitlibs.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft November 14, 2016 4:16 PM  

@24. I'll use "seem" and "appear" as I please, but know that I imply "this is suspect" when I say either. I'm in the habit of multi-speak, not doublespeak. I don't mean that I say what i seem not to be saying, I mean that I say several things at once, all true.

@37. Indeed, I also understand he had a habit of "being with" extremely attractive women, in both this and other countries. Definitely more like Trump than the other.

@44. No, it needs monolithic upheaval. Your posited steps are only the first steps, and only make the rest of the journey easier.

@59. For hardening the tips of the impaling stakes, of course. Vlad Tepes III had the right idea with regards to deterring persistent invaders.

Blogger bob kek mando ( I are Spartacus ... and you can too! C'mon, give it a try, these crosses are way more comfy than they look ) November 14, 2016 4:21 PM  

87. Bernard Korzeniewicz November 14, 2016 2:35 PM
As East European I strongly suggest an impaling. They will die longer, scream louder and their support would run away faster and more scarred…



Kaziglu Bey ... rising.

Blogger Bard November 14, 2016 4:22 PM  

All,
Vox mentioned it at the end, but listen to the Ivan Throne podcast. Quite excellent.

Anonymous Lit Dog November 14, 2016 4:28 PM  

Thanks VD for the tireless work you do to debunk the bogus concept of a “Proposition Nation.” This theme can’t be overstressed.

We just had a bitter election where every non-White demographic voted one way, and Whites voted the other. Doesn’t that demonstrate, once again, that diversity promotes divisiveness?

With apologies for any of you who previously saw this link in August, I have an essay which complements the observations Vox is making here.

www.DukeDougherty.com/mixed-genre

Anonymous FP November 14, 2016 4:39 PM  

Midwit wrote:"Can you explain that?"

Vox is an Italian citizen but he's not Italian.

Paperwork versus bloodline.


There was a gal who called into Limbaugh's show today. A woman from California who voted for Trump detailing dealing with the Dem voters there. She had a pronounced Mexican accent and she called herself Mexican but an American citizen.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 14, 2016 4:45 PM  

Oh, I still think of myself as conservative, though I suppose my definition of the stand is different. I agree that it lacks an ideology; I have no real ideology. I disagree that it cannot deal with the left's ideology. It would be very easy, for example, for me to do so. I would tell the military and police to round up the motherfuckers and shoot them. See? Not so hard to deal with.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz November 14, 2016 5:03 PM  

Mr. Krautman, how do you feel living inside your books? It seems a progressive UN world government is unstopaple. Mr. Trump did accepted some NWO candidates…

Blogger Tom Kratman November 14, 2016 5:06 PM  

No U in the name.

You would be shocked at just how much I wish nothing I had ever written would ever come to pass.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 14, 2016 5:29 PM  

@104

Krautman for ambassador to Germany!

Blogger Tom Kratman November 14, 2016 5:40 PM  

I almost can't think of a job worse for me to be in than ambassador to some country or group we wish to maintain good relations with.

I would consider being ambassador to the UN, because a) we don't need and ought not want good relations with Kleptocracy Central or Tranzi Central, and b) I would enjoy shitting on them daily. And besides, just undoing anything that Hibernian twat Samantha Power has done would be a mitzvah.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable November 14, 2016 5:40 PM  

@Vox

So, all men are Americans? That's the only possibly conclusion from that proposition.

I was just watching the second season original Star Trek episode from '67 in which Shatner ends his quote from the Preamble with "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity". I bet they'd edit that out today, as it undermines their case severely.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 14, 2016 5:40 PM  

And still no fucking U in the name.

Blogger Teri November 14, 2016 6:56 PM  

I had no idea that Mary Cloggenstein of Brattleburg VT posted here. I thought it was just an Ace thing.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab November 14, 2016 7:51 PM  

I still imagine you as Richard Crenna from Rambo no matter how you spell your name.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 14, 2016 8:25 PM  

I'd have told Rambo to keep destroying the town.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents November 14, 2016 8:43 PM  

@106
I almost can't think of a job worse for me to be in than ambassador to some country or group we wish to maintain good relations with.

Ok, so Minister Extraordinary Ambassador to Sau Merkle herself, then.

Iff you are sent to Chermany, you vill answer to Krautman, or even Krautmann if required, und you vill enchoy it!

I would consider being ambassador to the UN, because a) we don't need and ought not want good relations with Kleptocracy Central or Tranzi Central, and b) I would enjoy shitting on them daily. And besides, just undoing anything that Hibernian twat Samantha Power has done would be a mitzvah.

That works for me. Works just fine.

Blogger James Dixon November 14, 2016 9:34 PM  

> All people who believe the proposition about all men. On the bright side, they have to believe in a Creator.

So you'll be leading the campaign to expel all atheists and agnostics from the US then?

Blogger Elocutioner November 14, 2016 10:55 PM  

Misspell it one more time and he'll be tacking U up with some nails and a hammer.

Blogger Tom Kratman November 14, 2016 11:07 PM  

Nah. I'm not sensitive about it, it's just that inaccuracy of any kind annoys.

Blogger American Spartan November 15, 2016 2:42 AM  

Basil Makedon wrote:Of course we all want to burn US politics to the ground and start over. What's worth preserving? The manifest incompetence, the graft, the cronyism, the nascent oligarchy, the debt, the lawlessness -- which part do they want to keep exactly?

Borders, language, culture, The Bill of Rights, Most of the Constitution (restrict the power of the courts/Federal Government greatly)

Blogger Were-Puppy November 15, 2016 10:38 AM  

@3 Student in Blue

Weird, now they're trying to pin Kek on the Alt-Right as well?
---

They are so blinded by their own brand of racism (white ppl are at the root of every problem) that they can't define the alt-right.

This guy gave it a hell of a good shot, but he is too obsessed with the alt-white nazi elements to be able to see any of the rest of it.

I actually think Hillary did a better job at describing it because she separated out different elements, such as she added in "alt-right and conspiracy theorists".

If Bannon and Milo are alt-right then they would only fall into alt-west. If even that. Alex Jones is squarely in the conspiracy theorist camp.

The problem with these people trying to define is there are so many fellow travelers to the alt-right and they can't distinguish between them.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 15, 2016 10:40 AM  

@6 Viidad
I used to call myself a true conservative. Now I am no conservative at all.
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Same here. I'm somewhere in alt-west and conspiracy theorist

Blogger Were-Puppy November 15, 2016 10:48 AM  

@12 Bentley
CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE. Trump is not the REAL president. We do not accept him and never will. We will not stop fighting until the Trump is removed from office. People of Color and women and homosexuals will bring all you down
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Get bent, Bentley. You can't even win an election with massive rigging, entire media, foreign funding, and groupthink. In a physical confrontation, you lose.
In a mental confrontation, you lose.

You're a loser.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 15, 2016 11:45 AM  

@38 Cail Corishev

They don't get to claim Reagan as one of theirs. They are Bush conservatives.
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Now that you mention it, that is so obvious it's like a slap in the face. From 1988 and on Bushies took control of the whole thing, with the added bonus of the NWO...

Anonymous Pennywise November 15, 2016 12:14 PM  

X agrees with, and subscribes to, the proposition that defines America.

X is not an American citizen.

Therefore, X’s American citizenship relies on the fact the Founding Fathers enabled future generations to define citizenship.

Y disagrees with the current application of how citizenship is defined in America.

Y is an American citizen.

Therefore, Y's American citizenship acknowledges the fact the Founding Fathers enabled future generations to define citizenship.

Neither an American’s citizenship, nor a non-citizen’s lack of citizenship, rejects the concept of that proposition.

Thus, America is a proposition nation.


Regarding de Tocqueville, the commonality of race was in reference to ethnic groups who had seamlessly blended in despite their historical aversions to another. Moreover, there was no "common religion"--it had run the gamut, from Roman Catholicism to Judaism to Protestantism to Islam (In 1790, the South Carolina legislative body granted special legal status to a community of Moroccans).

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 15, 2016 1:27 PM  

Give it up @Pennywise. You have to go back.

Blogger Were-Puppy November 15, 2016 3:14 PM  

@51 slarrow
That training gave me a bit of trouble when Vox started pointing out the Gamma uses of that terminology. But the rhetoric/dialectic distinction really helps to identify what's happening. Lot of education going on here at VP and AG.
----

I thought he said it was a gamma tell. In the times I saw him point it out, they were using it to try and redefine his clear words on some subject.

Observation: The lime is green.

SJW Point & Shriek: You seem to be saying the lime is blue and yellow mixed together. You racist! Where is the orange? Where is the red? I can't even...

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