ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2017 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Thursday, December 29, 2016

Anti-Christian hate crime

Israeli parliamentarian destroys the New Testament and declares that Christianity "belongs in the garbage can of history".
MK Michael Ben Ari (National Union), a member of the Israeli parliament tore up a copy of the New Testament and threw it in the trash, an act that was apparently caught on camera. Ben Ari and several other Knesset members received by mail on Monday a copy of the New Testament, sent by the Bible Society in Israel, an organization that distributes religious books.

In the letter sent with the book, director of the Christian organization Victor Kalisher wrote that the new edition “sheds light on the Holy Scriptures and helps understand them."

“We hope the book will help you and illuminate your way,” Kalisher furter wrote.

However, while most MK's chose to ignore the book or return it to its sender, the rightist lawmaker chose to term the book a "provocation," tore it up into shreds and then threw it out.

“This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition and during auto da fe instances,” Ben Ari said adding that “Sending the book to MK's is a provocation. There is no doubt that this book and all it represents belongs in the garbage can of history.”
Imagine the outrage if a U.S. Congressman tore up a copy of the Talmud and denounced Judaism on camera.

There is no such thing as Judeo-Christianity. It does not exist. There are no "Judeo-Christian values", any more than there are "Islamo-Christian" or "Hindu-Shinto" values.

What many naive Christians need to understand is that many Jews absolutely hate Christians and Christianity. Such Jews are neither our friends nor our allies, but our overt enemies.

That does not mean that all Jews are enemies of Christianity. It doesn't even mean that most of them are. It simply means that they are a distinct people with their own distinct interests, a nation who should neither be favored nor trusted on the sole basis of their religious or ethnic identity. And like everyone else, Jews should be judged as individuals, on the basis of their individual statements and actions.

As for Israel, the USA should support it to the extent it is in American interests to do so. As a regional power in the volatile Middle East, Israel is much more useful to Americans as an ally than as an enemy. But Christians nevertheless need to understand that many Israelis, including some Israeli political leaders, are their open and avowed enemy.

Now, I realize there are more than a few Jews and Christians alike who would prefer to bury all signs of this Jewish enmity for Christians and Christianity for one reason or another. This is understandable, and it may even be well-intentioned. But if you are inclined to knowingly keep the deceived in the dark, I think you really need to ask yourself whom you are serving in that regard.

Labels: ,

204 Comments:

1 – 200 of 204 Newer› Newest»
OpenID techdouchebaggery December 29, 2016 11:42 AM  

>>>
“This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition and during auto da fe instances"
>>>

Millions? He's off by a factor of 1,000x. The death toll was closer to ~5,000, and not all of those executed were Jewish.

I wonder if he would've done this publicity stunt if the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita had arrived in the mail.

Anonymous Michael Maier December 29, 2016 11:44 AM  

I'm still trying to figure out why I am supposed to think of the Spanish Inquisition as a bad thing.

And "millions"? ...... Really.

Blogger Counter Attack December 29, 2016 11:44 AM  

I'm Jewish and have a strong dislike for the absolute nutters in the government. You run into the same crap in Israel as you do in the rest of Western civ. A big difference though is the insiders in Israel have kept the right wing "extremists" at bay for awhile. Likud is dealing with this nonsense and a large chunk of the government body who wants Israel to disappear. God knows they don't want a repeat of the Messionic Jew fiasco.

Anonymous An Israeli December 29, 2016 11:45 AM  

VD,

This story is pretty outdated.

This man is not a member of Knesset any longer. His party could not garner sufficient votes to get in. And he was shunned by nearly all other members when he was in the Knesset.

Blogger Robert Divinity December 29, 2016 11:49 AM  

Ari's promotion of Israel as a Jewish nation-state is understandable, but would he had made such a display if a Muslim sent him a Koran? I assume not because Ari realizes Western Christians are neutered and won't react the same way as Muslims will. The most humorous aspect of the story, by the way, was how Ari's fellow KP's condemned the act although they generally share his hatred; their concern is Western cash being cut off.

The problem precisely is what you identified, the deep denial of huge swaths of Western Christianity as to how much they are hated by most Jews, both in and outside of Israel. It is time to take a realistic approach to Israel. It's a situational ally in much the same way as Saudi Arabia is or was. It's not our friend.

Anonymous Tipsy December 29, 2016 11:49 AM  

techdouchebaggery wrote:“This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition and during auto da fe instances"

Millions? He's off by a factor of 1,000x. The death toll was closer to ~5,000, and not all of those executed were Jewish.


More priests and nuns were killed in Spain during the 8 months of the Red Terror than victims of the Inquisition in the 150 years. Saying that millions were killed provides moral cover for those who are on a mission destroy Christianity.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus December 29, 2016 11:50 AM  

The death toll was closer to ~5,000, and not all of those executed were Jewish.

I'd wager that more people from baptistic groups were killed than Jews.

Blogger haus frau December 29, 2016 11:51 AM  

All this talk of Israel being America's greatest ally in the region, I've heard it all my life as an evangelical protestant. I still can't figure out what exactly they do for us that isn't necessitated by Israeli interests. We don't need the oil and anyway that should be problem of the oil corporations not our military. Much of the intelligence Israel might share is only necessary because of our heavy military involvement in the region. I guess I'm at a loss to see what constitutes being great allies when Israel contributes neither blood or treasure to the cause, nor is the cause an American problem without Israels presence in that region.

Anonymous BBGKB December 29, 2016 11:52 AM  

This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition

Does he think non Christians would have been ok with Jews selling their women as slaves to moslems and letting moslems in while being "Traitors At The Gate"

Blogger VD December 29, 2016 11:52 AM  

This story is pretty outdated.

It's from 2012. And the guy is complaining about events from the 15th century. It's not even remotely outdated.

What percentage of Israeli Jews would you estimate agree with the guy about Christianity?

Blogger VD December 29, 2016 11:53 AM  

I'm at a loss to see what constitutes being great allies when Israel contributes neither blood or treasure to the cause

It's always better to be on the good side of a nuclear power. Of course, that's equally true of Pakistan and North Korea.

Blogger Eric Slate December 29, 2016 11:55 AM  

I remember trying to talk sense into an anticatholic preacher by reminding him the reconquista, settling America, and Spanish Inquisition all fit within about a hundred years of each other. Wouldn't be possible if so millions died in the Inquisition.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus December 29, 2016 11:55 AM  

All this talk of Israel being America's greatest ally in the region, I've heard it all my life as an evangelical protestant.

Baptists churches of all types (Southern, Independent, whatever else) are also lousy with this sentiment.

AFAIAC, Israel is our ally in the region only to the extent that they share a similar governing form to us, and serve as foils and antagonists to the assortment of Islamic wackos who dominate the region. I say withdraw from the region and let Israel serve its purpose of being the focal point of Islamofascism.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 29, 2016 11:56 AM  

VD wrote:This story is pretty outdated.

It's from 2012. And the guy is complaining about events from the 15th century. It's not even remotely outdated.

What percentage of Israeli Jews would you estimate agree with the guy about Christianity?


I'm pretty sure there was a more recent story where an Israeli man stated that Christians are vampires.

Head of extremist Jewish group calls Christians ‘blood-sucking vampires'

If only that were true. We'd rule the world.

Blogger FALPhil December 29, 2016 11:57 AM  

No one comes to the Father except through the Son.

We should pity such Jews.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus December 29, 2016 12:00 PM  

I'm pretty sure there was a more recent story where an Israeli man stated that Christians are vampires.

Head of extremist Jewish group calls Christians ‘blood-sucking vampires'


If that were really the case, we'd be importing way more matsoh bread. *rimshot*

Blogger The Kurgan December 29, 2016 12:01 PM  

VFM project?
Send Korans to the whole Israeli cabinet.
Do it every 3 months.

Blogger pyrrhus December 29, 2016 12:04 PM  

Recent polls have shown that Jews continue to prefer moslems to Christians, pretty much everywhere. Maybe it's in the genes, since otherwise it makes no sense in the modern world.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 29, 2016 12:06 PM  

How very neurotic of him. The Ashkenazi can make aliyah but he will never be at home.

Anonymous rienzi December 29, 2016 12:09 PM  

In 2014 the Pew Research Center did a study of attitudes to various religions in the USA. Jews had a 35% favorable image of Muslims. 34% favorable image of Evangelical Christians. They disliked Evangelicals more than any other religious group, and Evangelicals were the group they disliked the the most.

So much for Judeo-Christian anything.

Blogger tublecane December 29, 2016 12:10 PM  

@2-"I'm still trying to figure out why I am supposed to think of the Spanish Inquisition as a bad thing"

Because your immortal soul is nobody's business but your own. Meanwhile, everyone must be of the same belief on mentally deranged sex-switchers' bathroom access, or else civilization will fall apart.

Blogger Cicatrizatic December 29, 2016 12:11 PM  

1 Thessalonians 2:15

OpenID vfmshadow0342 December 29, 2016 12:12 PM  

@18:

I'm on board. :)

Blogger Wanderer December 29, 2016 12:16 PM  

@18

Jews have more respect for Islam than for Christianity.

Blogger allyn71 December 29, 2016 12:17 PM  

Psalms 118:22

The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.

Anonymous Die Fledermaus December 29, 2016 12:27 PM  

Yes, speaking from the Jewish side of things, "Judeo-Christian" is a cringe worthy term. Theologically they are absolutely contradictory. Christians believe Jews will end up in hell because they do not accept Christ. Jews believe Christians will go there since Christianity is a form of idolatry that violates the first three commandments. It does not mean Christians and Jews can't be friends, or allies, especially since geopolitically our interests do seem to be in line. But we are not one and the same. Never will be.

Anonymous Basket of Deplorables December 29, 2016 12:27 PM  

@18
In addition to the Qurans, include a pair of white cotton gloves...because the dirty MK infidels shouldn't be able to even touch the pedo's book.

Blogger Phelps December 29, 2016 12:30 PM  

The Spanish Inquisition didn't have jurisdiction over jews, only Catholics. The only jews who were executed were cryptojews who falsely claimed to be Catholic.

Anonymous Azimus December 29, 2016 12:32 PM  

VD:
There is no such thing as Judeo-Christianity. It does not exist. There are no "Judeo-Christian values", any more than there are "Islamo-Christian" or "Hindu-Shinto" values.

What many naive Christians need to understand is that many Jews absolutely hate Christians and Christianity. Such Jews are neither our friends nor our allies, but our overt enemies.


When I read this, I interpret you to say that the term "Judeo-Christianity" is sociological/cultural, an alliance between the religions, or a merging of the two cultures. Is that the perspective you are building your argument off of? I don't want to bandy definitions, just to understand what you are saying better. For my part the term always implied the historical-theological connections between the Mosaic Law and the condemnation it brings combined with the Christ and the freedom He brings. Romans stuff.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 29, 2016 12:33 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 29, 2016 12:33 PM  

And I was just about to tell the Missus to put away the Hugo Boss leather miniskirt, bustier, thigh high boots, officer's coat, and riding crop.

But when I show her this VD post, she is going to crank the Nazi to 11.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 29, 2016 12:34 PM  

rienzi wrote:In 2014 the Pew Research Center did a study of attitudes to various religions in the USA. Jews had a 35% favorable image of Muslims. 34% favorable image of Evangelical Christians. They disliked Evangelicals more than any other religious group, and Evangelicals were the group they disliked the the most.

So much for Judeo-Christian anything.



Debtors always come to hate their creditors.

Blogger Student in Blue December 29, 2016 12:38 PM  

And I was just about to tell the Missus to put away the Hugo Boss leather miniskirt, bustier, thigh high boots, officer's coat, and riding crop.

If you're telling her to put the miniskirt away, then I can only hope for you that there's something better to replace it.

Blogger Kant Leerus December 29, 2016 12:39 PM  

The Spanish Inquisition started a century before the New Testament was translated... the Spanish probably did not subscribe to the New Testament for quite sometime because they are catholic and the New Testament was translated by Martin Luther. Saying the New Testament was responsible or played a role during the Spanish Inquisition is a bit like saying Dr. Seuss books are responsible for anti-semitism

Blogger Cecil Henry December 29, 2016 12:40 PM  


The blindness to Jewish and Israeli hatred and manipulation of Western nations is contemptible.

US politics has become beholden to Jewish money. Ignorance of such a basic fact is either duplicity or willful ignorance. Which is it??

Judeo Christian is a contradiction in terms.

ITs Judeo OR Christian. The paths diverge completely with Christ.

Blogger haus frau December 29, 2016 12:41 PM  

From what I gather, the inquisition was meant to smoke out foreign subversives that remained in Spain after the Jews and moors were expelled. Not so unreasonable when it's explained in its historical context.

Blogger Some Dude December 29, 2016 12:43 PM  

Now you know why they sell interracial sex to gentile daughters and seek to degrade and destroy western civilisation.

Ever since the 50s when they were shunned from country clubs despite their wealth, they've been on a crusade to destroy America and replace it with a vassal state.

Many Zionist jews are gamma males.

Vindictive, conniving, treacherous, liars, mischievous, sophists, cunning, consumed by rage and completely unethical in their means.

Blogger Bard December 29, 2016 12:44 PM  

What is the spirit of antichrist except those that deny Jesus is the messiah.

Blogger Some Dude December 29, 2016 12:44 PM  

Spain did a great job cleaning out the jews and muslims. Everyone should be using Reconquista as a template for Western renewal.Its portrayed horribly in history books which were written by Jews/brainwashed SJWs.

Blogger Nate December 29, 2016 12:44 PM  

look people.. the USS liberty was never attacked ok. didn't happen. for realz.

Anonymous TLM December 29, 2016 12:45 PM  

Imagine getting your ass beat and then having the nerve to try and take over and/or co-opt the work of the God that brought woe upon you. That's modern Jews. Their judgment came in 70AD, but instead of repentance, they chose this Tikkun Olam nonsense. A stiff necked people indeed.

I've met some cool Israeli's, know some pleasant Jews, and even hired a Hebrew attorney before (he was outstanding), but they are, at least the ones in the US, a small minority. Most are down right hostile to anything Christian, and you can spot that rage lying underneath the surface of their superficial smiles, personality, etc.

Even the few times I witnessed a Jews For Jesus presentation at my local big box church, those Jews just projected a kind of smugness that was annoying. As if some how a Jewish Christian is a cut above a Gentile one.

But no surprise or media outrage for this incident, unlike the goofy pastor in the south that was going to burn Korans.

Jerry Jenkins, Tim LaHayne, John Hagee, and many others in the Christian circuit have really skewed people's view as to who modern Jew really are, they aren't a bunch of Davids & Moses running around.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 29, 2016 12:45 PM  

@33 that there's something better to replace it.

Aye. La variété est l'épice de la vie.

Blogger Salt December 29, 2016 12:45 PM  

Wanderer wrote:@18

Jews have more respect for Islam than for Christianity.


They definitely fear it more.

Blogger Some Dude December 29, 2016 12:50 PM  

since geopolitically our interests do seem to be in line.

No. They are diametrically opposed. Muslims only attack the west due to jewish money bribing and blackmailing politicians like Woodrow Wilson to antagonise Muslims for over 100 years with coups, wars, drones, torture, supporting cruel dictators when they had democracy, stealing land, stealing resources, banning investment/trade there, funding extremists to be a foil for Zion etc.

People with <110 IQs can't understand why Muslims are angry. How about listening to them?!

ITS THE FUCKING JEWS that stop us hearing them.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 29, 2016 12:50 PM  

I'd wager that more people from baptistic groups were killed than Jews.

Also, the Inquisition tried heretics -- baptized Christians who spoke or acted contrary to the faith. So if the Inquisition convicted a Jew, it was a Jew who had claimed conversion and been baptized, then abandoned that and been caught practicing or proselytizing for Judaism.

A Jew who remained a Jew all along wasn't subject to the Inquisition, but he faced significant restrictions on his social and business activities in post-Reconquista Spain (and to be fair, sometimes there was pressure to convert), so many falsely claimed conversion. Then some got caught. Eventually the crown realized making allowances for them wasn't going to work, and expelled the rest.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 12:51 PM  

@4 "This story is pretty outdated."

The charge of hating Christ and Christians is, however, not "outdated."

Blogger Lucas December 29, 2016 12:52 PM  

They hate Christians more than they hate muslims because Jesus exposed quite brilliantly their fake religiosity, which undermined their "chosen" status. Without that, they are just like everyone else and many hate that feeling.

Anonymous fop December 29, 2016 12:54 PM  

look people.. the USS liberty was never attacked ok. didn't happen. for realz.

False flag?

Blogger Shimshon December 29, 2016 12:55 PM  

I'm out and can't post on thus now.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 1:01 PM  

The term "Judeo-Christian" was used in a letter written by Alexander M'Caul dated October 17, 1821. It has since been appropriated by Jews as a foot-in-the-door ploy to hoodwink the goyim. It's a crock. They hate our guts. We became the chosen people when Christ ascended into Heaven. They, on the contrary, are the people cast out weeping and gnashing their teeth. They're burned up with envy. So-called "Christian" Zionists such as Mike Huckabee, John Bolton, Lindsey Graham, Pastor John Hagee, et al, listen up---you will answer to God for your duplicity in promoting the cause of these children of Satan.

Blogger Orville December 29, 2016 1:03 PM  

@34 The Spanish Inquisition started a century before the New Testament was translated.

@34 Nope. Not even close to true. The eastern empire was awash in copies of the books later cannonized into the complete NT. They were called the Byzantine texts. In the west, the Catholic Church had it's texts as well, so both sides had "the New Testament" well before the Inquisition.

Blogger GracieLou December 29, 2016 1:04 PM  

"Jews prefer Moslems to Christians"

It's even in something as bland and innocuous as "Judaism For Dummies." I couldn't believe it.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 29, 2016 1:07 PM  

Bard wrote:What is the spirit of antichrist except those that deny Jesus is the messiah.

Specifically, those who deny he came in the flesh.

Blogger Orville December 29, 2016 1:07 PM  

To quit the judeo-christian scam is in no way contradictory to what Paul wrote in Romans about the church's relationship to the Jews. I think it's just about the churchian feelz.

Blogger Robert Divinity December 29, 2016 1:07 PM  

@44

If every Jew on the planet suddenly disappeared, Muslims still would hate people who don't share their faith. They are commanded by their false prophet to punish nonbelievers. Muslims are more than capable of bringing the hate and whipping up their own outrage.

Blogger Orville December 29, 2016 1:08 PM  

And we know that most churchians are as stupid as a post when it comes to biblical truth.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 29, 2016 1:08 PM  

Such people would have us believe the gospel is only "mythical truth", rather than historical truth.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 29, 2016 1:10 PM  

Nothing against mythical truth, I married a gal who's purely mythical.

Blogger Shimshon December 29, 2016 1:11 PM  

Vox is right, to the extent that it matters. It does not prevent us from finding common ground where it exists. Judaism looks askance at provoking the nations in this manner. At the very least, it's bad optics that doesn't accomplish anything positive. But it's true, Ben Ari is a clown, not so different than a certain Baked Alaska.

I think the main issue for those who care here is Christian proselytizing in Israel. This is totally comparable to the recent UN vote. Should the UN be more Zionist than Bibi? Should Christians be mindful of Jewish sensitivities when our own government refuses to reflect that desire? It is perfectly acceptable from a nationalist perspective for Israel to ban proselytizing in Israel outright. But cucks infesting government not only do not so, they enable it at every turn. What practical thing has Ben Ari done to make that reality? Nothing...

Blogger Cheradenine Zakalwe December 29, 2016 1:11 PM  

The deep roots of the Jewish War on Christmas:

http://diversitymachtfrei.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-deep-roots-of-jewish-war-on.html

I think the story you're quoting is from a few years ago, though.

Blogger Kant Leerus December 29, 2016 1:12 PM  

I could be mistaken, but I thought the New Testament was translated into vernacular and made it accessible to much of the population living in Europe. Perhaps stating the Spanish would not abide too it was incorrect. My apologies

Blogger Grandpa Lampshade December 29, 2016 1:14 PM  

What I find humorous about this topic and reading the comments is how ingrained it has become that Jew somehow = religion. They are a race. Yes, there is a religion called Judaism but when people such as myself discuss the problem with Jews, it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with racial differences.

Blogger Basil Makedon December 29, 2016 1:27 PM  

@51 I think from context he is referring to a NT translation into Spanish. As best as I can determine with 30 seconds of research, that occurred possibly in the late 1400s and early 1500s. So, still not true, but not wrong in the way you think. Also, since the NT was originally recorded in Greek, I'm not sure that the ERE needed "translations" per se.

@44 Islam needs no extra incentives to attack Christianity and Christians. It was designed from very early on to be an antichrist system. In their view of the Trinity we associate God with partners (the Holy Spirit and Jesus, though in some places in the Koran they accuse us of worshiping Jesus and Mary). Mohammad declared this associating God with partners to be the worst sin imaginable -- Shirk. Any Muslim who denies this is likely ignorant or more likely practicing Taqqiya.

TLDR: They accuse us of polytheism.

In Islam, "Issa" was "just a prophet" and bears only superficial similarities to to Jesus. While being a miracle worker, and virgin born, Issa of the Koran was not divine, was not crucified, did not die for our sins and was accordingly not raised from the dead. I could go on, but you get the point.

Blogger Nick S December 29, 2016 1:28 PM  

It's completely understandable that Jews would have disdain for the "Judeo-Christian" label and that Christians should find it totally unnecessary. Christians, after all, don't appropriate the TaNaKh; they incorporate it. I'm all for educating the public, but getting lathered up over what has evolved into a colloquialism over the years is a little pedantic. Fretting over the label doesn't change the wine; only the whine.

Blogger Orville December 29, 2016 1:32 PM  

@61 Perhaps stating the Spanish would not abide too it was incorrect. My apologies No apologies needed, no offense taken. If you meant specifically a Spanish language bible then I mistook that. I thought you meant any version of the New Testament. Rome was opposed to any vernacular version that could be read by the masses, and even kept the latin version locked and chained to the pulpit.

Blogger Ron December 29, 2016 1:41 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 29, 2016 1:46 PM  

Grandpa Lampshade wrote:What I find humorous about this topic and reading the comments is how ingrained it has become that Jew somehow = religion. They are a race. Yes, there is a religion called Judaism but when people such as myself discuss the problem with Jews, it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with racial differences.

The religion called Judaism is much older than the Jews. It's a mistake to conflate them into a monolithic category.

Anonymous MIG December 29, 2016 1:47 PM  

"In the letter sent with the book, director of the Christian organization Victor Kalisher wrote that the new edition 'sheds light on the Holy Scriptures and helps understand them.'"

Kalisher is a Jewish name. In other words, the guy who sent the Bible was probably an ethnic Jew.

By the way, if you are an ethnic Jew who practices Christianity you do not have the right of return.

Blogger Kant Leerus December 29, 2016 1:50 PM  

To be fair, I had learnt as a child that the New Testament was translated into the vernacular (which it was) and may have forgotten and been under the impression that it was more unique to the Protestant and calvinists. It has been a long time since I read or focused specifically on the hirstory and after double checking (just reading the bible is not enough) it would seem I was wrong. However to state an entire Inquisition was galvanised because of a section in a book that was written in Hebrew and Greek (the New Testament of the bible at that time)that the natives could not read seems a bit, peculiar... especially if it was only translated into the vernacular a century later.

If that were true than shouldn't all Christians be starting inquisitions wherever the Jew may be ? Since almost every Christian can read the gospel on their own now and haven't needed a priest for centuries to translate it

Anonymous CitizenOutkast December 29, 2016 1:52 PM  

FWIW, most people (that I know, at least) just see the term Judeo-Christian to mean that the OT is still part of Christianity, and that it is still valid, worth learning from, and important. Paul obviously thought the same way, as the new Christians who studied "the Scriptures," which would have only been the OT at the time, were praised by him. I sincerely doubt most people know or care about the origin of the term.

As for why Christians support Israel so blindly, from my experience it comes straight from the OT and *only* because of one verse. "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you," God said to Abraham. Christians take this to mean that anyone who dares to say anything bad about the Jews/Israel are going to be cursed, and those who fall all over themselves to praise everything Jews/Israel do are going to be blessed. For some, if Israel stated they were going to gather up all kids under two and gun them down, they'd shrug and agree with it.

Anonymous BBGKB December 29, 2016 2:01 PM  

Recent polls have shown that Jews continue to prefer moslems to Christians, pretty much everywhere

Jews also make movies about jews falling in love with arabs. For both STR8 & gay movies.

Muslims are more than capable of bringing the hate and whipping up their own outrage.

Desert didnus are just like dindus, only a problem because of (((better call Saul)))

Blogger VFM #7634 December 29, 2016 2:01 PM  

In 2014 the Pew Research Center did a study of attitudes to various religions in the USA. Jews had a 35% favorable image of Muslims. 34% favorable image of Evangelical Christians. They disliked Evangelicals more than any other religious group, and Evangelicals were the group they disliked the the most.

@20 rienzi

Here's a link.

"Attitudes among religious groups toward each other range from mutual regard to unrequited positive feelings to mutual coldness. Catholics and evangelicals, the two largest Christian groups measured here, generally view each other warmly. White evangelical Protestants give Catholics an average thermometer rating of 63; Catholics rate evangelicals at 57. Evangelicals also hold very positive views of Jews, with white evangelical Protestants giving Jews an average thermometer rating of 69. Only Jews themselves rate Jews more positively. But that warmth is not mutual: despite evangelicals’ warm feelings toward Jews, Jews tend to give evangelicals a much cooler rating (34 on average)."

IMO, looking at it from a Jewish standpoint, it must be rather strange having a foreign religious group virtually worshipping the ground you walk on and sucking up to you all the time, and putting your interests above their own, like these Evangelical dispensationalist hyper-Zionists do. It would be extraordinarily easy to end up despising them.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 29, 2016 2:05 PM  

@61, a quick summary: The books of the New Testament were written in Greek, except for the gospel of Matthew, which was written in Aramaic. The first official translation into Latin (the vernacular of the time) was by St. Jerome in the 4th century, but there had been other earlier translations, including one called the Itala, of which the entire New Testament and parts of the Old are still preserved and used in liturgy.

The entire Bible (New and Old) was translated into Gothic (for the Goths) in the 4th century, and there were other translations here and there. The first official English translation by the Catholic Church was the Douay-Rheims, of which the New Testament was published in 1582. The Protestant version authorized by King James soon followed in 1611.

Translations weren't banned before then; the problem is that good translation is hard. Especially when you're dealing with works by multiple authors, in multiple ancient languages, from eras spanning millenia. It takes major scholarship, not just in languages, but in history, theology, culture, and more. It also takes a level of objectivity or oversight that can keep individual translators from injecting their own biases or misunderstandings into it. So the Church didn't approve translations for use unless they were carefully done and checked.

But the point is, regardless of what translations were available to the people, the gospels and the rest of the bible were preached throughout Christendom from the late first century on. To say that the Spanish people, whose faith was strong enough to aid them in kicking the Moors out of their country and eventually out of Europe, didn't have the gospels because they lacked translations, is frankly bizarre. It's more likely that they knew (and followed) the gospel far better than modern Christians do.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus December 29, 2016 2:06 PM  

As for why Christians support Israel so blindly, from my experience it comes straight from the OT and *only* because of one verse. "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you," God said to Abraham.

The irony is that this verse applies to Christians, who are the true children of God by faith. He is a Jew which is one inwardly. Today's followers of Judaism are the synagogue of satan.

Blogger VFM #7634 December 29, 2016 2:08 PM  

The irony is that this verse applies to Christians, who are the true children of God by faith. He is a Jew which is one inwardly. Today's followers of Judaism are the synagogue of satan.

Yeah, I wonder how these hyper-Zionists try to explain away Galatians 3:29.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus December 29, 2016 2:09 PM  

The books of the New Testament were written in Greek, except for the gospel of Matthew, which was written in Aramaic.

Honestly, there's about zero actual evidence for Matthew originally being in Aramaic. All the early writers (1st-2nd century) who quote it do so in ways which demonstrably indicate they were using a Greek version of it. There doesn't seem to have been any serious translation of the NT into Aramaic/Syriac until at least the early 3rd century.

Basically, the whole "Matthew was originally in Aramaic" thing is just an argument Catholics use to get around the whole word-play in Greek in Matt. 16:18 which indicates that Peter was not actually the one upon whom the churches were built, and therefore was not "the first pope."

Blogger VD December 29, 2016 2:20 PM  

As for why Christians support Israel so blindly, from my experience it comes straight from the OT and *only* because of one verse. "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you," God said to Abraham. Christians take this to mean that anyone who dares to say anything bad about the Jews/Israel are going to be cursed, and those who fall all over themselves to praise everything Jews/Israel do are going to be blessed.

And yet, they don't hesitate to curse the other children of Abraham....

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 2:21 PM  

@70 "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you..."
God was speaking to the ancient Hebrews, not to the Turkic Khazars (a people--today known as "Jews"--who are not Semites). The Fundies are blinded by their Calvinist zeal for Sola Scriptura.

Blogger VFM #7634 December 29, 2016 2:22 PM  

Basically, the whole "Matthew was originally in Aramaic" thing is just an argument Catholics use to get around the whole word-play in Greek in Matt. 16:18 which indicates that Peter was not actually the one upon whom the churches were built, and therefore was not "the first pope."

@76 Titus
If you're right, there would've been no point in Christ naming him "Peter" at all, and He rather gave a distinctly false impression that He wanted Peter to lead the Church.

Your rationalization is quite frankly ridiculous, transparent, and desperate.

Blogger Tank December 29, 2016 2:26 PM  

Truly, some of you, including VD, found a couple of nuts (2012 !!!). What a stretch, just like those who say that Alt-Right = KKK because of relative handful of loons. Too eager to drum up the Jew hate here.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 2:29 PM  

Orville wrote:Rome was opposed to any vernacular version that could be read by the masses, and even kept the latin version locked and chained to the pulpit.
Fucking Black Legend, will it never die?
Rome was opposed to translations because translations always distort meaning. In Italy in particular, though in Spain as well, knowledge of Latin was actually more common than being able to read. Both languages are literally dialects of Latin.
The reason the Bible was kept chained down was because books were incredibly expensive. Representing thousands of hours of hand work, a complete Bible in the 14th century was as expensive as a luxury car is today. Simply, if not chained down, it would have been stolen.

So please stop repeating these obvious lies.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus December 29, 2016 2:32 PM  

If you're right, there would've been no point in Christ naming him "Peter" at all, and He rather gave a distinctly false impression that He wanted Peter to lead the Church.

Quite the opposite, actually. Naming him "Peter" (petros) gave the impression that Peter - who Christ *was* establishing as the first pastor/leader of the group of disciples at the very start - was a small stone. He was one stone in the building of the church, whose founder and builder is Christ. Using the term petra, on the other hand, made the obvious connexion to Peter's statement about Jesus as the Christ sent from God, and that this confession of faith was the great foundation upon which the church was started, and also hearkens explicitly back to Christ's parable in Matthew 7:24-25. Those who knew Koine fluently, as Galileans in particular, and 1st century Jews in general, would have would not have had any difficulty understanding what Christ was saying. This is probably why Peter was never actually treated as a "pope" by the very early Christians. Indeed, he lived out his days and died as a pastor ministering to the Jewish community in Babylon (I Peter 5:1#), and while he was still with the church in Jerusalem, he was actually under James' authority (Acts 15:13-21, also implied in Gal. 2:11-21).

I know that it's very, very important to Catholics that Peter be the First Pope who established His Chair in Rome and founded the Holy Catholic Church, but the fact is, it's all based on later traditions winnowed out from among a much larger body of traditions. Indeed, there's no actual evidence that Peter ever was *in* Rome, much less was a pope there.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 2:40 PM  

I have never seen and Catholic commentator claim that Matthew was written in Aramaic. Granted, I'm no biblical scholar, but that seems a pretty tendentious claim.

Anonymous MIG December 29, 2016 2:45 PM  

@78

You have not kept up with current genetic findings. The Khazar hypothesis has been disproven. It's easy to google.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 29, 2016 2:46 PM  

Not even the fierce Ann "Crazy Eyes" Barnhardt - famous for her torching the Koran with strips of bacon - would dare to do such to the Talmud, despite the fact that Mohammed's tract is considerably more respectful of both Jesus and his mother than the Babylonian Spirit-Cookbook.

Neither truth or history seems to matter much to the heretics who bow before the (((master race))) as if they were demigods. They remember nothing and they learn nothing.

Blogger VFM #7634 December 29, 2016 2:46 PM  

Our Lord spoke Aramaic as His vernacular. So the original in-the-flesh words would have been in Aramaic anyway. It really doesn't matter if it was first written down in Greek or not, although Aramaic would obviously be more accurate, and therefore, any purported doublethink that results from a Greek translation would quite simply be invalid right off the bat.

As to the point about Peter never having been to Rome (!), I suspect Titus is reading far too much "modern" "scholarship". Much of that has also lately been saying that Jesus Himself never existed.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 29, 2016 2:49 PM  

Many Zionist jews are gamma males.

It is a matrilineal society.

Muslims are more than capable of bringing the hate and whipping up their own outrage.

Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is just another asshole who can't get along with anyone.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 2:50 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:As to the point about Peter never having been to Rome (!), I suspect Titus is reading far too much "modern" "scholarship". Much of that has also lately been saying that Jesus Himself never existed.

It suits his prejudices, so it must be true.

Blogger DrAndroSF December 29, 2016 2:56 PM  

Kant Leerus wrote:To be fair, I had learnt as a child that the New Testament was translated into the vernacular (which it was) and may have forgotten and been under the impression that it was more unique to the Protestant and calvinists. It has been a long time since I read or focused specifically on the hirstory and after double checking (just reading the bible is not enough) it would seem I was wrong. However to state an entire Inquisition was galvanised because of a section in a book that was written in Hebrew and Greek (the New Testament of the bible at that time)that the natives could not read seems a bit, peculiar... especially if it was only translated into the vernacular a century later.

If that were true than shouldn't all Christians be starting inquisitions wherever the Jew may be ? Since almost every Christian can read the gospel on their own now and haven't needed a priest for centuries to translate it


You are operating under a misapprehension. The whole Bible was translated into Latin in the 4th century and was used as the foundational text for the education of the clergy and the universities throughout all of Europe, Spain included, from then on. And the clergy were the conduit through which the Catholic faith, which came from the Latin Bible, shaped the ruling classes, which were the ones who set up the national Inquisition in Spain. By that time, the ruling classes also learned Latin and so could read it for themselves. Plus, don't assume that you know the actual history involved. It is one of those things "everybody knows" which is highly propagandized. UK Jewish historian Henry Kamen's work on the Spanish Inquisition puts it in a realistic light.

Blogger VFM #7634 December 29, 2016 2:56 PM  

Besides, if there was any word-play at all involving Greek, it would've been between the original Aramaic Kephas (rock) and the Greek word for "head".

Anonymous Sam thre Man December 29, 2016 2:58 PM  

A few observations that might help:

1) Jews are less enamored of evangelicals because the evangelicals are actively trying to convert them. For the most part main line Protestants and Catholics do not try, unless they see an active interest by an individual.

The problem is 2 fold with the evangelicals: 1) they seem to assume if you just heard the gospel you would convert (which is not the case) and
2) they are generally fairly ignorant of the history and wider aspects of their own Christen roots and Judaism. Judaism puts a lot of emphasis into study of scripture, so the relative ignorance of the evangelicals (not all I have met some real evangelical scholars)is kind of off putting to say the least.

The perception is that the Evangelicals like Jews because they hope to convert them, if they knew how impossible that is (in most cases), they would flip the other way.

Blogger Cicatrizatic December 29, 2016 2:59 PM  

@82. In Koine, petra and petros were synonyms that simply meant rock. This is confirmed by Protestant Greek scholars D.A. Carson and Joseph Thayer.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 3:01 PM  

@80 "Too eager to drum up the Jew hate here."
It's the Jews who hate us, dude.

Blogger Rabbi B December 29, 2016 3:05 PM  

I know that it's very, very important to Catholics that Peter be the First Pope ...

(((POPE)))



Anonymous Jack Amok December 29, 2016 3:05 PM  

You have not kept up with current genetic findings. The Khazar hypothesis has been disproven. It's easy to google.

Okay, so God wasn't talking to Khazars or Italians then...

Blogger Joshua_D December 29, 2016 3:06 PM  

Tank wrote:Truly, some of you, including VD, found a couple of nuts (2012 !!!). What a stretch, just like those who say that Alt-Right = KKK because of relative handful of loons. Too eager to drum up the Jew hate here.

Yeah, we're the ones drumming it up.

OpenID ar10308 December 29, 2016 3:09 PM  

But "Muh 5,000" were the original "Muh 6,000,000"...

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 29, 2016 3:10 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:

Translations weren't banned before then; the problem is that good translation is hard. Especially when you're dealing with works by multiple authors, in multiple ancient languages, from eras spanning millenia. It takes major scholarship, not just in languages, but in history, theology, culture, and more. It also takes a level of objectivity or oversight that can keep individual translators from injecting their own biases or misunderstandings into it. So the Church didn't approve translations for use unless they were carefully done and checked.

But the point is, regardless of what translations were available to the people, the gospels and the rest of the bible were preached throughout Christendom from the late first century on. To say that the Spanish people, whose faith was strong enough to aid them in kicking the Moors out of their country and eventually out of Europe, didn't have the gospels because they lacked translations, is frankly bizarre. It's more likely that they knew (and followed) the gospel far better than modern Christians do.


Yes, absolutely true. Even the oldest parts of the liturgy in both Catholic and Orthodox churches contain passages from the New Testament. Translations were done long before the reformation too. As you mentioned, the reason they are relatively few in number was the great difficulty in preparing them. The rate of literacy was not high, though I think a case could be made that those who were educated back in that era had a far better level of mental discipline than generally seen today. A deliberately heretical and deceptive doctrine such as "Judeo-Christianity" would never have passed the mental sniff test with folks like Jerome, Ausgustine, or Luther. it's a doctrine of demons, taught in practically every church in Amurika.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 3:10 PM  

@82 "out from among a much larger body of traditions. Indeed, there's no actual evidence that Peter ever was *in* Rome, much less was a pope there."

Yeah. And for 1500 years (FIFTEEN HUNDRED) there was--the Greek schism notwithstanding--only ONE repository of the Christian religion: the Catholic Church.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 3:12 PM  

@84 "You have not kept up with current genetic findings..."

Oh, I see. They're the ancient Hebrew people, right?

Blogger Kant Leerus December 29, 2016 3:12 PM  

No, I don't think they followed the gospel better than modern Christians do. This was during feudal times whereby priests and jesuits would exploit families. If one family member committed a sin, the entire family could be extorted to pay for that sin. And royalty frequently bought insurance to enter the kingdom of heaven after death (not really the teachings of Christ). The vernacular translation was due to the corruption of the church and the abuse/lies that were told to the populations that were unable to read the texts.

The Spanish did not have translations of the gospel in the 1400 (why do you say that is frankly bizarre) unless you insinuate that the gospel played a role in removing the moors ? In which case, how did the gospel play a role in doing so?

Blogger Basil Makedon December 29, 2016 3:14 PM  

@85 No, the Koran is absolutely filled with lies about Jesus. Rather than "respect," the Koran denies and denigrates his divinity and essentially casts him as an abject failure. While the Koran admits he was a virgin-born miracle worker it denies the three most important parts -- death, deity and resurrection.

Here are some good examples from the Koran:

"And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden." (5:116, Yusif Ali)

Or

"The Jews call 'Uzair [Ezra] a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!" (9:30, Yusif Ali)

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 3:16 PM  

@98 "folks like Jerome, Ausgustine, or Luther..."
How did the heresiarch Luther get in there?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 3:17 PM  

Kant Leerus wrote:No, I don't think they followed the gospel better than modern Christians do. This was during feudal times whereby priests and jesuits would exploit families. If one family member committed a sin, the entire family could be extorted to pay for that sin. And royalty frequently bought insurance to enter the kingdom of heaven after death (not really the teachings of Christ). The vernacular translation was due to the corruption of the church and the abuse/lies that were told to the populations that were unable to read the texts.

The Spanish did not have translations of the gospel in the 1400 (why do you say that is frankly bizarre) unless you insinuate that the gospel played a role in removing the moors ? In which case, how did the gospel play a role in doing so?

Look, you're just embarrassing yourself now. Ignorance is no crime, but neither should it be put on dispolay for the amusement of the locals.

Anonymous Sam the Man December 29, 2016 3:21 PM  

99: Actually my reading of Christian history is that there were something like 12 original apostolic churches , Rome being but one. The early councils included most of them, with a gradual attempt by Rome and Constantinople to take over power rather than resolve things by council. Islam arose as Constantinople was trying to beat down all of the apostolic churches of the east, with Rome doing the same in the west. Islam eliminated most of the original apostolic churches, or isolated them from the west (like the Coptic's of Egypt) Then they had a final schism over who would be the deciding power in 1054.

Seems like a decided warping of JCs comments on how to resolve church disputes in one of the gospels.

Blogger Gregory Smith December 29, 2016 3:30 PM  

I had to check the source link, here's what I found:

"Ben Ari and several other Knesset members received by mail on Monday a copy of the New Testament, sent by the Bible Society in Israel, an organization that distributes religious books."

Really? Why would they do that? If I get mail I don't desire, what do you think I do with it?

"Imagine the outrage if a U.S. Congressman tore up a copy of the Talmud and denounced Judaism on camera."

That would never happen, because Jews don't try to convert Christians. But let's say you did get a copy of the talmud, what would you do with it? Chances are you'd throw it in the garbage. Why? Because you didn't order it. We value the things we buy and want, free things aren't valued. That's why public bathrooms are often dirty and disgusting.





Blogger VFM #7634 December 29, 2016 3:36 PM  

@Sam the Man @Gregory Smith

Yeah, that makes sense. I suppose if someone was constantly trying to sell me something like a sleazy car salesman or a telemarketer, I wouldn't want too much to do with them either. Some evangelicals do try to convert Catholics, but I guess enough of them recognize us as Christians that we're not quite as turned off to them as those other groups are.

Blogger Kant Leerus December 29, 2016 3:36 PM  

What does that even mean ?

Fine, if you think the New Testament galvinized the Spanish Inquisition, then that is your business

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 29, 2016 3:41 PM  

Basil Makedon wrote:@85
No, the Koran is absolutely filled with lies about Jesus. Rather than "respect," the Koran denies and denigrates his divinity and essentially casts him as an abject failure. While the Koran admits he was a virgin-born miracle worker it denies the three most important parts -- death, deity and resurrection.

Here are some good examples from the Koran:

"And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden." (5:116, Yusif Ali)

Or

"The Jews call 'Uzair [Ezra] a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!" (9:30, Yusif Ali)


One would not expect the scribblings of a person inventing his own new religion to acknowledge Christ as anything divine. That's not the point. The Talmud explicity states that Jesus was the bastard son of a Jewish whore and a Roman soldier and that both swim eternally in a vat of shit but a person like Barnhardt - influenced by the Judeo-Christian heresy broadcast in the USSA for the last 7-8 decades - wouldn't dare torch a Talmud, which is even more vile than the Koran.

Musloids aren't exactly known for their great sympathy for Christians either. Talmudists are even worse - and consistently have been for 2000 years. They're the ones who opened the gates for the invading Muslims in 8th century Spain and they're the primary force driving the Musloid invasion of Europe presently. The fact that there are greater enemies and lesser enemies does not mean any are your friends or allies. Way past time for the church to purge itself of this heresy.

Blogger tz December 29, 2016 3:50 PM  

@76, @79, Jesus spoke Aramaic, regardless of what Matthew was originally written in. Hence Paul refers to Peter as Kephos/Kepha in his epistles.

@73 Tyndale was condemned not for translating the bible but doing so badly, sewing confusion. A modern parallel would be "translating" the constitution by a "living document" type like Ruthie.

Similar to the "Bibles were chained to monastery walls" - because they took years of work using expensive materials in a scriptorium before Gutenberg. However I love pointing out most translations like the NIV are even more heavily chained by the copyrights though they will let me quote a few pages occasionally - they have opened up for the Bible on Web, but when I was working on an app, I could literally not get a NIV license for my Palm app (entire KJV on the Palm 3, search took 1 minute to start from Genesis find a word only in Revelation on an 8Mhz processor!).

Anonymous Aphelion December 29, 2016 3:51 PM  

Our church supports Christian missionaries in Israel. They must hide their main purpose in order to get into the country even though they are ethnic Jews. Jewish law keeps Christian missionaries out. Currently.

Blogger Jew613 December 29, 2016 4:01 PM  

Shimshon wrote:Vox is right, to the extent that it matters. It does not prevent us from finding common ground where it exists. Judaism looks askance at provoking the nations in this manner. At the very least, it's bad optics that doesn't accomplish anything positive. But it's true, Ben Ari is a clown, not so different than a certain Baked Alaska.

I think the main issue for those who care here is Christian proselytizing in Israel. This is totally comparable to the recent UN vote. Should the UN be more Zionist than Bibi? Should Christians be mindful of Jewish sensitivities when our own government refuses to reflect that desire? It is perfectly acceptable from a nationalist perspective for Israel to ban proselytizing in Israel outright. But cucks infesting government not only do not so, they enable it at every turn. What practical thing has Ben Ari done to make that reality? Nothing...


Proselytizing is banned in Israel already. It is not enforced sufficiently but it is illegal.

Very few Jews hate Christians or Christianity, it simply isn't important enough to warrant hatred. Honestly for gentiles it is better that they be Christian then nothing at all. What we do hate is attempts to steal Jewish souls through missionizing and sending New testaments to Jews is an obvious attempt to do so.

Dr. Ben-Ari never burned any Korans as far as I know. But he did lead a nationalist march through the Muslim occupied town of Uhm El Fahm. Which enraged the Muslims at the time.

Blogger tz December 29, 2016 4:01 PM  

Cephas
Scroll down for the early church fathers like Tertullian and Ignatius

Blogger Hugo Smith December 29, 2016 4:01 PM  

@18 Definitely. I think the idea is that Christians can acquire hatred of Jews far more easily than Muslims can acquire military power. This is why there is still no Christian state in the Middle East (but Russians may hopefully correct that)

Blogger LES December 29, 2016 4:04 PM  

Not to be pedantic but Abraham was not a Jew. Isaac and Jacob were not Jews. Moses was not a Jew. The word Jew is derived from a person from the tribe of Judah. The Kingdom of Judah and the land called Judea are sources for the word, Jew.
I don't know the name of the religion the ancient Hebrews practiced but it wasn't Judaism. That's why there are no Pharisees in the Old Testament and why Jesus condemned their teachings of the Babylonian Talmud.

Anonymous Urban II December 29, 2016 4:15 PM  

This abominable book (the New Testament) galvanized the murder of millions of Jews during the Inquisition

This is a bold-faced lie. The best estimates, based on the limited data available, put the number around 3,000 deaths.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 4:22 PM  

Jew613 wrote:Very few Jews hate Christians or Christianity, it simply isn't important enough to warrant hatred. Honestly for gentiles it is better that they be Christian then nothing at all.

That is simply not my experience.

Blogger Jed Mask December 29, 2016 4:27 PM  

.... Skim-reads sentences...

Makes up comment:

"JESUS CHRIST IS THE KING OF THE JEWS! Jews don't wanna hear it. Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life. Christianity is in effect; Judaism is outdated. Jews gotta accept..."

Yeah, don't take none of the Jewish "hatred" against Christians too personally: deep down many know (or should know) Jesus Christ is their Jewish Messiah but don't want to accept it, fighting against the Truth that is. Let 'em talk. Don't fuel that ignorant fire. Amen.

~ Bro. Jed

Anonymous Maj December 29, 2016 4:27 PM  

C'mon Vox, JQ? Stupid man, you are listed as featured guest!

Handle your business, man.

Blogger James December 29, 2016 4:41 PM  

The New Testament says that Jews were and would be enemies of the gospel of Jesus Christ, so, no surprise there. And it was Jews who started the violence, first when they bamboozled the Romans in to executing Jesus, and then later when they went after Christians, siccing guys like Saul of Tarsus on them, and then going after Saul when he becomes Paul and starts preaching the gospel himself. Paul put it this way,
Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."
I boast not against the branches; I don't bear the root, the root bears me, and if God spared not the natural branches, I don't presume that I will be spared if I sin and fall into unbelief my self.

Blogger Student in Blue December 29, 2016 4:46 PM  

It's remarkable how Protestant vs Catholic monomania can even overpower a (((juicy))) thread.

Now we need to test if people would rather kvetch about Boomers or sports. I guess we need a thread on how Boomers are ruining sports... for science, that is.

Blogger Rabbi B December 29, 2016 4:50 PM  

"What we do hate is attempts to steal Jewish souls through missionizing and sending New testaments to Jews is an obvious attempt to do so."

No. It is really not.

Jewish souls are in danger when we forsake the spring of living water and build our own cisterns, cisterns which cannot hold water. Jewish souls are in danger as long as we draw near with our lips while our hearts remain far from Him. Jewish souls are in danger as long as we forsake the Torah and the righteousness demanded therein. Jewish souls are in danger for as long as we seek to establish our own righteousness while rejecting the standard of righteousness that has already been established in the Torah and the Prophets by the Holy One, blessed be He.

Jewish souls are indeed in danger, for so long as we are determined to reject and suppress the truth, we are a danger to ourselves. A set of writings that most Jews reject out of hand is a danger? Spare me.

In my experience with most Christians, there is nothing sinister in their proselytizing efforts. At the very least I can appreciate the fact that they showed enough concern for my soul to present me with an opportunity, that from their perspective, may preserve my soul. No one is forcing me to agree with or adopt their perspective and it's easy enough to reject theirs.

But to assign blame to a set of documents known as the New Testament, is just obtuse and as idiotic as the infamous blood libel that is held in equal disdain among our own.

Unless the Scriptures hadn't said otherwise, I don't think we would ever stop blaming others for our problems ...

All the nations will ask: “Why has the L-rd done this to this land? Why this fierce, burning anger?”

And the answer will be [i.e. we will finally admit]: “It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord, the G-d of their ancestors, the covenant he made with them when he brought them out of Egypt.(cf. Deuteronomy 29)

Blogger Student in Blue December 29, 2016 4:56 PM  

@Maj
C'mon Vox, JQ? Stupid man, you are listed as featured guest!
Handle your business, man.


If you think the only reason there was an objection on Vox's side was because someone might have dared utter something critical about Jews, then you clearly know nothing.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 5:00 PM  

Whatever else Jews are worried about, loss of Jewish souls is not on the list. They welcome, even celebrate the apostate, the Atheist, the Communist, even a wrecker like Soros, who betrayed his people in their time of need.
A typical Jew doesn't care if another Jew rejects God, and seduces others to do so.
A typical Jew doesn't even care if his own children curse the name of the God.
A Jew cares if his child marries a Goy.
A Jew cares if another Jew embraces the Messiah.
A Jew cares if any rapproachment with the enemy is made. Because Jews hate Christ, and by extension, Christians, far more than they love God. Talmudic Judaism is founded explicitly on rejection of Christ. That is the basis of Judaism, and hatred of Christians is their public worship.
And of course, for the women and Gammas, NAJALT, IKAGO.

Blogger dienw December 29, 2016 5:03 PM  

Over two years ago I recommended here two books on Christianity:
Mohammed and Charlemagne by Henri Pirenne and Mohammed and Charlemagne Revisited by Emmet Scott.

These two books provide a history of what happened to Christendom when the Moslems rampaged throughout the Roman Empire East and West.

One thing the reader discovers is that there were copies of the Scriptures both NT and OT widespread throughout Europe before the ascendency of Rome (correspondingly, literacy was high). Unfortunately, the texts were on papyrus which does not age well. When the Moslems horde invaded North Africa/Egypt, the supply of papyrus was cut off and bibles could no longer created using this inexpensive resource. As the papyrus copies deteriorated and became rare, Babylonian Rome collected such papyrus copies and burned them and assumed control of the creation of bibles on sheepskin.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 5:09 PM  

@124 Very insightful, Snidely. Your words are striking a responsive chord in the hearts of Jews who are reading them, though they would never admit it. You hit the nail on the head. You described them to a T. Know thy enemy (and they have, in their Talmud, clearly described us as their enemy).

Anonymous craig December 29, 2016 5:09 PM  

92. Cicatrizatic: "In Koine, petra and petros were synonyms that simply meant rock. This is confirmed by Protestant Greek scholars D.A. Carson and Joseph Thayer."

Yes, this claim of some substantive distinction between the -a and -os form of the same Greek noun is ludicrous. It's as if all the 'scholars' claiming this temporarily forget how languages with gendered nouns work. Male subjects have masculine noun endings (articles, pronouns, etc.), and female subjects have female ones. The rule is only broken when one intends to insult the subject (here, with implied effeminacy).

Blogger Eric Mueller December 29, 2016 5:19 PM  

Most of our Cuckshianity "leaders" seem to teach that every single Jew that has ever lived and is still living is somehow dedicated to the Torah and Tanach. But this is not the case. Fewer than 15% of Jews are what we would call "religious". Approximately 85% are secular, and the vast majority tend to liberalism.

A few, like Rabbi Lapin, seem to realize that 21st century American Evangelicals are the best friends Jews ever had. The majority don't. Fortunately for them, Evangelicucks are not likely to realize this any time soon.

Blogger Orville December 29, 2016 5:26 PM  

the reason they are relatively few in number was the great difficulty in preparing them.

True but I think some of you are thinking in terms of a whole bible, when in fact for a number of centuries individual books, or letters if you will, of what became the New Testament were hand written and circulated widely among the churches one thousand years before the Catholic inquisition.

So it's not quite the monumental tasks of monks toiling for decades to create one copy, but just an educated man with papyrus making a copy of the Letter to the Ephesians to pass on to other churches.

This is where the huge, almost 5000 whole or partial manuscripts of the Byzantine family were compiled by Beza into the Textus Receptus Greek text that was THE primary text for any translation from 1600 to the late 1800's excluding Catholic translations. Those 5000 whole and partial documents had a high degree of agreement with each other.

Blogger bosscauser December 29, 2016 5:50 PM  

This nut was run out of office....

#PresudentTrump

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 5:58 PM  

@129 The Bible was codified and given to the world by the Catholic Council of Nicaea in the 4th century. It's indisputable. The Catholic Church gave us the Bible.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable December 29, 2016 6:05 PM  

The Catholic Church gave us the Bible.

Er ... so what? Think God couldn't have managed if they didn't?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 6:07 PM  

Orville wrote:So it's not quite the monumental tasks of monks toiling for decades to create one copy, but just an educated man with papyrus making a copy of the Letter to the Ephesians to pass on to other churches.
Careful, Orville, your prejudices are showing.

Blogger Patriotic Canadian December 29, 2016 6:17 PM  

90% or so of Russian Bolsheviks were jewish. All murders commit or aided and abetted by the soviets in the last century are blood on the hands of those monsters. They deserve to be reviled and hated. As for Israel they can exist as long as they leave Christians alone to worship as they please. As soon as they deny access to Jerusalem or any other Christian holy place their right to existence ceases.

Anonymous Tipsy December 29, 2016 6:19 PM  

Orville wrote:@61 Rome was opposed to any vernacular version that could be read by the masses, and even kept the latin version locked and chained to the pulpit.

You realize they were chained because they were worth 3 years wages and in danger of being stolen, being hand copied before the printing press was invented? In fact, chaining of books at universities and seminaries was common at that time.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 6:19 PM  

@132 Right. It's no big deal: Catholic Church is only church that can trace it's origin to time of Christ, gave us the Bible, responsible for the glories of Christendom, gave us Western Civilization, etc., etc.

Anonymous Schwartz December 29, 2016 6:22 PM  

It's clearly not a hate "crime".

Anonymous BBGKB December 29, 2016 6:27 PM  

Jew613 Very few Jews hate Christians or Christianity, it simply isn't important enough to warrant hatred. Honestly for gentiles it is better that they be Christian then nothing at all.

You have a choice of 2 possible neighbors chose one:

One is a evangelical family active in boy/girl scouts, NRA members, who in their free time hand out wine and fish sandwiches to the poor. They are also master gardeners(Yes DavidG I know its a scam)& support missionaries.

The other couple is 2 gay rights activists with fostered niglet sons, who plan to turn their property into a nudist retreat, openly worship Satan, have pet lamas & practice their garage band every Saturday.


Feel free to be honest about which most jews would prefer.

Blogger Jew613 December 29, 2016 6:30 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:"What we do hate is attempts to steal Jewish souls through missionizing and sending New testaments to Jews is an obvious attempt to do so."

No. It is really not.

Jewish souls are in danger when we forsake the spring of living water and build our own cisterns, cisterns which cannot hold water. Jewish souls are in danger as long as we draw near with our lips while our hearts remain far from Him. Jewish souls are in danger as long as we forsake the Torah and the righteousness demanded therein. Jewish souls are in danger for as long as we seek to establish our own righteousness while rejecting the standard of righteousness that has already been established in the Torah and the Prophets by the Holy One, blessed be He.

Jewish souls are indeed in danger, for so long as we are determined to reject and suppress the truth, we are a danger to ourselves. A set of writings that most Jews reject out of hand is a danger? Spare me.

In my experience with most Christians, there is nothing sinister in their proselytizing efforts. At the very least I can appreciate the fact that they showed enough concern for my soul to present me with an opportunity, that from their perspective, may preserve my soul. No one is forcing me to agree with or adopt their perspective and it's easy enough to reject theirs.

But to assign blame to a set of documents known as the New Testament, is just obtuse and as idiotic as the infamous blood libel that is held in equal disdain among our own.

Unless the Scriptures hadn't said otherwise, I don't think we would ever stop blaming others for our problems ...



Rabbi B, you've drunk deeply of strange waters. The moment you vomit them up you will be welcomed back among your people you'll even be allowed to make Aliyah. You may wish to missionize yourself, but please dont pretend that sending out New Testaments has any purpose other then converts.

The intent behind missionizing isn't relevant, the intent may be good, it may be bad. The act is inherently evil. Since you are of Jewish heritage despite your embrace of a foreign faith do not disrespect your ancestors by comparing the blood libel to opposition to new testaments being distributed in the Jewish state.

Indeed many Jews are troubled and dont have the Torah necessary to resist missionaries. You never put a stumbling block before a blind man and this includes keeping the missionaries away so Jews aren't lost to their people in this world and the next.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 6:36 PM  

@139 There ya go.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable December 29, 2016 6:40 PM  

The intent behind missionizing isn't relevant, the intent may be good, it may be bad. The act is inherently evil.

Uh, no. Not if the God of Israel is behind it, it isn't. Grow up.

Blogger Lovekraft December 29, 2016 6:48 PM  

Virtue signaling to the fellow tribesmen while removing one of the central safety measures against their elimination. Genius.

Blogger VD December 29, 2016 6:49 PM  

The intent behind missionizing isn't relevant, the intent may be good, it may be bad. The act is inherently evil.

How can the act be "inherently evil" in the eyes of secular Jews?

Anonymous Sam the Man December 29, 2016 6:57 PM  

a few comments:

I hear more overt hostility of Jews here by Christians than I do of Jews hostile to Christians. Most Jews just want to be able to practice their faith without being messed with. Jews are not trying to convert anyone, they really do not care about Gentiles, most religious Jews are inward looking.

Folks like to quote Talmudic writings out of context. Yes there are some areas where statements made would piss of Christians concerning JC birth parents, same as certain statements of JC concerning first century Judean practices piss off Jews.

Rabbi B makes one think with his writings. I have to admit, reading a critical description of some of his comments, and having read non standard interpretations of the Talmud, that once can actual find support for his position within Jewish oral law. Once you consider it, it gives one pause.

Frankly I have seen little overt hostility of Christians by Jews in my life, Most Jews spend much more time hating on each other for the various differences. Jewish folks take these things seriously, so if someone is less Kosher/devote than you, they are a dangerous heretic, if they are more devote they are a religious fanatic. Kind of funny if folks had an eye to see it....which they do not.

last comment: The fundamental problem is that either the christens are right or The Jews that rejected Jesus are. There really is no middle ground. The only way folks can get along is to agree to disagree on these religious areas and just not discuss it. Of course that is impossible, so here we are.......

Anonymous Sam the Man December 29, 2016 7:00 PM  

The only other possibility is all folks cannot meet the father without going through JC first. If correct a lot of Jews will be going Opps......, when they run across JC on the way to meet the father.

I am sure that will piss off both sides....

Anonymous BBGKB December 29, 2016 7:04 PM  

Jew613 can you not bring yourself to lie and say you would rather have the evangelical family as neighbors from comment 138? What if you were selling the property next to you and the evangelical family offered 50% more, while the gay couple planned to grow pot in humanure?

Anonymous Schwartz December 29, 2016 7:10 PM  

"The Spanish Inquisition didn't have jurisdiction over jews, only Catholics. The only jews who were executed were cryptojews who falsely claimed to be Catholic."

This is terribly short sighted. The Catholics of Spain decimated the Jewish population through too many discriminatory edicts to describe, all meant to steal their worth and humiliate them. It was perfectly unjustified and perfectly catholic. And it was perfectly european.

The Holocaust is the logical outcome of the irrational anti Semitism that has infected the continent for centuries.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 7:14 PM  

@144 "The only way folks can get along is to agree to disagree on these religious areas and just not discuss it."

There is another way--having you find another host to parasitically feed on.

Anonymous Schwartz December 29, 2016 7:18 PM  

There is another way--having you find another host to parasitically feed on".

I'll bite. Hey, fuck you and your purposeful embrace of sloppy, bottom feeding ignorance.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 7:22 PM  

@147 Liar. Spain welcomed into its bosom the suffering diasporic Jews and then, later, witnessed their treachery when Jews literally opened the city gates of Granada, Toledo and other cities to the invading Muslim hordes.

Blogger Michael O'Duibhir December 29, 2016 7:25 PM  

@149 "I'll bite. Hey, fuck you and your purposeful embrace of sloppy, bottom feeding ignorance."
Keep it up. Once again the goyim are waking up to your mendacity and treachery. It's happening all over again, just like it has so so many times before in the past. Soon, you'll be seen waddling towards the nearest exit out of harm's way. We're not intimidated by your obnoxious ass.

Blogger VD December 29, 2016 7:40 PM  

I hear more overt hostility of Jews here by Christians than I do of Jews hostile to Christians.

That's because Tad - who is a Jew - has his comments spammed. As does Tiny Duck and the odd hasbara. The actual Jewish readers don't tend to be hostile to Christianity, and there are a few Judeo-Christians too.

Blogger bw December 29, 2016 7:45 PM  

The Holocaust is the logical outcome

Except, it wasn't...and isn't.
May the Schwartz be with us!

Talmudic (Kabbala) Judaism is founded explicitly on rejection of (and killing of THE) Christ. Snidely

ding ding ding - but Jesus noted it already existed as the rabbinical Pharisee's "traditions of men" and was the cause of the killing of Jesus, not the result - ie. Babylon, Egypt, etc. It would be of note if the Hebrews had been captives in those lands for extended periods..

If you had known Moses, you would know Me

Anonymous Urban II December 29, 2016 7:50 PM  

@144

There really is no middle ground. The only way folks can get along is to agree to disagree on these religious areas and just not discuss it. Of course that is impossible, so here we are.......

In certain cases it may be prudent to not discuss it, but it cannot be a matter of principle. We are asked to love everyone. Love is to will the good of another. Nothing is more good than accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is an act of love to share the Gospel.

Anonymous Dan December 29, 2016 7:56 PM  

144. Sam the Man
Christians don't hate jews, their just done with their bullshit. There is no hostility in the comments, it's just how men talk. Stop trying to virtue signal that you are a rational balanced observer.

Anonymous Marvin Boggs December 29, 2016 8:19 PM  

@17: better still, send them each a Bible quarterly. Koran's are of no value, real or theoretical. Bibles, on the other hand, are definitely of value. Perhaps we'll be more stubborn than they; maybe they'll eventually read it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 8:35 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:Frankly I have seen little overt hostility of Christians by Jews in my life, Most Jews spend much more time hating on each other for the various differences.
Jew613 wrote:The intent behind missionizing isn't relevant, the intent may be good, it may be bad. The act is inherently evil.
Schwartz wrote:This is terribly short sighted. The Catholics of Spain decimated the Jewish population through too many discriminatory edicts to describe, all meant to steal their worth and humiliate them. It was perfectly unjustified and perfectly catholic. And it was perfectly european.

The Holocaust is the logical outcome of the irrational anti Semitism that has infected the continent for centuries.


Compare and contrast.

Anonymous Sam the Man December 29, 2016 8:35 PM  

Urban II

I have not personally ever been treated bad by Christians, quite the contrary, heck I married one, but then again I am not exactly socially acceptable. I get your comment of it being love to share the gospel, but understand it will not be perceived that way. Much oral law is a warning not to be subsumed into Christian faith.


Once aspect I note that some Jewish people get wrong is to assume the holocaust was done by Christians. it was not. The Nazis were a rejections of Christianity, my eyes were opened to this when reading a detailed history of the Battle of France, where the army command complained that the SS regiments were burning churches in Belgium, before the Holocaust was planned (and yes, it did happen). Most of the righteous Gentiles that helped save Jews from the mincing machine were Christians of one sort or another.

Blogger Detective Instinct December 29, 2016 8:38 PM  

Jew613, it's clear you're a hater, not a lover.

Why do you, a very dirty, faithless pig, believe one's Jewish heritage means anything to Jehovah after seeing how He took care of those 3000 who had worshipped the Golden Calf?

Blogger Jew613 December 29, 2016 9:02 PM  

Detective, that's the great part about eternal promises from G-d, they are eternal.

No amount of name calling will change G-d's promises to the Jewish people.

Anonymous Sam the Man December 29, 2016 9:06 PM  

Detective Instinct:

Because of the Torah. Now consider this: If a devout Jew took a look at JC and determined him to be a false messiah, what else can they do? Do you not realize, that given the fact Jews truly believe JC not to be the promised Messiah, how following him would be the equivalent of worshipping the golden calf? To Jews (that did not convert in the first 3 centuries after 30 AD) he did not meet the requirements of the Messiah.

Jew613 is not a hater, he is honestly expressing his opinion (and those of mainstream Judaism) on Rabbi B's conclusions. He thinks they are wrong, dangerously so.

Now knowing what G-d commanded to those who reject him and follow false deities, Your example can be interpreted to back Jew613 up, can you see that?

Said another way, he is doing exactly what a Christian would do to a minister who decided that Mohammad's Koran supplanted traditional Christianity and made it public.

As to why your insult of faithless pig is laughable, Jews worship the father, as I seem to recall JC summoned his followers to do so. Jews will keep the Torah as long as they live as even a fragment of a people. The will bear it without change and keep G-d word through all the generations. That is what a stiff-necked people do, perhaps that is what they were chosen for (I know Christians have a different view of what they were chosen for).

In any case while G-D smites them on a pretty regular basis for the same old sin of drifting away in good times, he also seems to be looking out for them, else it is hard to see how they have lasted all this time.

Blogger Ron December 29, 2016 9:10 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Detective Instinct December 29, 2016 9:13 PM  

Sam the Man, you're a moron who believes Jesus and His genuine followers are less righteous and ethical than those who reject His message.

Debating you about this would be a waste of time, so I'll continue to condescend toward you as I should.

Blogger The Hammer December 29, 2016 9:20 PM  

@139: Indeed many Jews are troubled and dont have the Torah necessary to resist missionaries. You never put a stumbling block before a blind man and this includes keeping the missionaries away so Jews aren't lost to their people in this world and the next.

The intent behind missionizing isn't relevant, the intent may be good, it may be bad. The act is inherently evil. Since you are of Jewish heritage despite your embrace of a foreign faith do not disrespect your ancestors by comparing the blood libel to opposition to new testaments being distributed in the Jewish state.


These charges are a little ridiculous, to say the least. Most Jews, being secular, observe less of the Torah than Gentile Christians. So "converting" certainly isn't going to diminish their place in the world to come.

Next, the New Testament, or more appropriately for the Jewish Context, the Apostolic Writings, originated from Jewish Apostles and a few other Jews (with the possible exception of Luke). Furthermore, they founded and intended the sect of the Way as a sect of Judaism (albeit with more permissive and more strict halakha for Gentiles, depending on the issue).

And since it was founded in Israel, specifically Galilee, Jerusalem, and the Temple, it has as much Jewish historic grounding in the Land as the Second Temple, and almost as old!

So it doesn't wash at all that becoming a disciple of Yeshua as Messiah is antithetical to Judaism nor that it requires conversion to another religion for Jews (Christianity).

Yes, I know the majority of missionaries also point Jews away from a path of increasing observance of the commands intended for them in the written and oral Torah, but that doesn't change the fact that there are believing Jews and Gentiles who support both for Jews: Yeshua as Messiah and Torah observance.

As Elijah learned, there is always a remnant.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 29, 2016 9:25 PM  

The Catholics of Spain decimated the Jewish population through too many discriminatory edicts to describe, all meant to steal their worth and humiliate them.

While Spain was under Muslim control, Jews were cozy with them, financing their regimes and generally acting in ways familiar to us today. When the Catholics took their country back, they would have been justified in expelling all the Jews along with the Muslims immediately, but because papal teaching had always been that the Jews should not be molested, they were allowed to stay, within limits. If you want to call those limits "disciminatory," that's fine; but a nation with a homogeneous people and an official religion has a right to ban other religions from the public square and take other steps to make sure foreigners and non-believers don't gain undue influence. If the foreigners and unbelievers don't like it, they are welcome to leave. In fact, some Jews did leave with their Muslim patrons, but they weren't allowed to take their gold, so many didn't take that option.

Despite those strict limits, Jews still found their way back into positions of undue influence with nobles who didn't follow the rules either, proving that the limits hadn't been strict enough, and eventually leading to full expulsion. Which helped Spain to remain Catholic longer than other parts of Europe which welcomed them, by the way.

I don't doubt that some individual Jews were poorly treated, even "humiliated" (a telling word), but what do you expect in the aftermath of a centuries-long struggle for their homeland? Imagine if the refugee/migrant colonization of the US continued for another century, driving white Americans into a few western states, and then they fought their way back into control of the Northeast over the next century. How kindly do you suppose they'd treat the (((lobbyists))) and others who had spent the war collaborating with the enemy and enjoying the spoils of their nation? I suspect they'd be lucky to get off with "humiliation."

Anonymous Sam the Man December 29, 2016 9:37 PM  

Detective Instinct:

I have never rendered my opinion about JC on this site, and I do not believe I have ever said a harsh thing about him or Rabbi B. You have no idea what my stance is on JC being the messiah or not. I was attempting to explain how it appears from the other side, in as neutral a tone as I could manage, given my inherent limitations as a human.

Now it seems to me you are making the Jewish point in their ambivalence towards fundamentalists, which I suspect you to be (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). You make a very basic argument, attempting to use The Torah against a Jew, throw in what you think is a stunning insult to boot, and then get mad when the fellow does not engage with you. I did engage you and you make it clear you are not seeking an exchange of ideas, but you want to rant. How gamma.

I will explain it; he is being nice by not engaging, and I thought I was as well in my attempt to explain how it appears from the other side. If you want an example why Jews fear Christians, go into you bathroom and look in the mirror, you are not exactly showing Christian love towards your neighbor. Many fear that what you are showing is lurking underneath most Christians, though I for one know that the be false, just like the idea a plurality of Jews are seeking the downfall of the US is an equally silly idea.

Blogger Harsh December 29, 2016 9:38 PM  

pyrrhus wrote:Recent polls have shown that Jews continue to prefer moslems to Christians, pretty much everywhere. Maybe it's in the genes, since otherwise it makes no sense in the modern world.

Of course. Muslims are their enemy. Christians are their superior.

Anonymous BBGKB December 29, 2016 9:47 PM  

I don't doubt that some individual Jews were poorly treated, even "humiliated" (a telling word)

Vox would ban me for sure if I quoted (((Dan Savage))) about how he enjoys being "humiliated"

Blogger Detective Instinct December 29, 2016 9:51 PM  

Sam the Man, why are you so ridiculously loquacious? What makes you think you need to explain anything to me?

You value your dogmatism and tribalism above objective righteousness, it's not difficult to see.

As I rightfully said about you, you're a moron, and you can't help but keep proving it, can you? You're about as interesting, useful, and hubristic as Barack Obama, you pompous buffoon. Forgive me for laughing at you.

Anonymous Dan December 29, 2016 9:59 PM  

166.Sam the Man

You know what your problem is, Sam? It's that sheepish unassuming victim role that you so much wish to display. All your comments are like that. The rants against jews are very much warranted and NO, you are not the victims. Cut the bullshit!

Blogger Detective Instinct December 29, 2016 10:06 PM  

Jew613 wrote:Detective, that's the great part about eternal promises from G-d, they are eternal.

No amount of name calling will change G-d's promises to the Jewish people.


What makes you think Jehovah likes Jews who reject Jesus' message more than He does the Gentiles who embrace it?

You're a fool if you believe Jesus' critics love and respect the Father more than His followers do.

Blogger Rabbi B December 29, 2016 10:10 PM  

@139 Jew613

Rabbi B, you've drunk deeply of strange waters.

Hardly. Since when are the Torah,the Prophets, and the traditions of our fathers strange waters? It sounds like you might need a little more refreshment yourself.

" ...do not disrespect your ancestors by comparing the blood libel to opposition to new testaments being distributed in the Jewish state.

Stop being dishonest and twisting the meaning of my words. You know full well I was comparing and highlighting the absurdity of both claims. No one has been disrespected, least of all my ancestors.

" ...dont pretend that sending out New Testaments has any purpose other then converts.

Oh, make no mistake, the New Testament is the least of your worries. It is obvious to me that you do not know the Torah as well as you should. What should concern you very much is Moses and the Prophets. What should concern you is Abraham Avinu and David ha-Melech. May the Holy One, blessed be He, open your eyes to all of the wondrous things in His Torah ... for as Dovid ha Melech proclaims: The Law of the L-rd is perfect, converting the soul ... the testimony of the L-rd is pure, making wise the simple ... the commandment of the L-rd is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Indeed many Jews are troubled and dont have the Torah necessary to resist missionaries.

Indeed. And this also means that too many Jews are troubled and don't have the Torah necessary to comprehend the truth and what Hashem requires of them. Should not the defection we are witnessing in our own day spur us on to redoubled loyalty and commitment to Hashem and Torah-observance rather than whining, bitching and moaning about what is "good for the Jews" and throwing a temper-tantrum every time a New Testament shows up in our mailboxes?

Should we not consider that we may be the blame for the present decline of Judaism? Are we really doing everything in our power to discharge our duties and timeless responsibility which G-d has imposed on every thinking Jew, most especially in times like ours? Should our resolve and determination not increase and outpace the vacillation that is rampant among our own? Do we know, and I mean really know, what it means to be mikdash Hashem?

Anonymous Sam the Man December 29, 2016 10:36 PM  

Detective and Don

I don't believe I have ever said I am a victim, nor do I see myself that way in any way. It is hard to be a victim when you are born a citizen of the US of A in a period without a major war. Kind of like hitting the jackpot. You both seem to make a lot of unwarranted assumptions.

I would note Don, that you and Detective Instinct want to make this personal. It seems to be an unwillingness to engage in a conceptual discussion. Why?

As to my loquaciousness: I am guilty of being interested in the truth, many here have challenged me and helped me get closer to it. Abstract ideas require words to express them, all I am trying to do it to express certain ideas in as neutral a way as I can. It seems those who want to rant against the Jews cannot seem to handle a reasoned discourse on the facts of the matter, or handle ideas counter to those they hold.

Something to ponder.

Blogger Detective Instinct December 29, 2016 11:04 PM  

Sam the Man, do you think you're a good listener? An extraordinarily rational person? Well, so does Barack.

Who's closer to God in your opinion, a respectful Gentile who basically values Jews and Gentiles the same, or a tribalistic Jew who happens to be a selfish and vain person? If you don't answer this question directly and intelligently, what kind of person would expect me to take you as seriously as you take yourself?

Anonymous Schwartz December 29, 2016 11:05 PM  

"Once aspect I note that some Jewish people get wrong is to assume the holocaust was done by Christians. it was not."

Oh for goodness sake. Germany was nearly 100% Christian in 1933. Germans didn't renounce Christianity when they embraced the Nazis. Nearly 100% of the German population under the Nazis, if asked, would have professed to be Christian...Even as they watched, pointed and laughed as Jews were carted off to the ovens.

Here's what I know....My fellow Americans of Jewish descent will never allow the kind of hardship to to come upon them that the likes of many of you would like to see. We are too strong and our allies to great in number. The only ones who don't know this are the small band of anti-semites that prefer to cower in corners of the Internet and make threats but who are at least smart enough to not make the threats under their own names.

Anonymous Schwartz December 29, 2016 11:07 PM  

" It seems those who want to rant against the Jews cannot seem to handle a reasoned discourse on the facts of the matter, or handle ideas counter to those they hold."

It has always been this way. Reasoned discourse is difficult when you hate with a passion.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 29, 2016 11:27 PM  

Schwartz wrote:Here's what I know....My fellow Americans of Jewish descent will never allow the kind of hardship to to come upon them that the likes of many of you would like to see. We are too strong and our allies to great in number. The only ones who don't know this are the small band of anti-semites that prefer to cower in corners of the Internet and make threats but who are at least smart enough to not make the threats under their own names.

Your only strengths are money and social intimidation. Your allies you have always betrayed, and are in the process of betraying even now. Jews have never had friends in the world, because any time a people tries to befriend Jews, they wind up exploited, impoverished and subjugated.
A man who take a Jew for an ally has two enemies.

Blogger Rabbi B December 29, 2016 11:31 PM  

@175 Schwartz

Here's what I know....My fellow Americans of Jewish descent will never allow the kind of hardship to to come upon them that the likes of many of you would like to see. We are too strong and our allies to great in number. The only ones who don't know this are the small band of anti-semites that prefer to cower in corners of the Internet and make threats but who are at least smart enough to not make the threats under their own names.

The Holocaust is the logical outcome of the irrational anti Semitism that has infected the continent for centuries.

What you think you know is wrong. The Holocaust is the logical outcome of assimilation and laxity in Torah observance which has infected European Jewry for centuries. Enmity and oppression continue apace because we are enjoined to live in accordance with the Torah in whatever conditions society may present and we by and large refuse to serve Him and the nations to which we have been scattered.

Many Jewish leaders will have to answer to Hashem and acknowledge that they have forsaken Him and his Law in order to curry favor with the nations, seeking deliverance from the Torah only to be delivered to the nations and oppressors.

Consider this: How aware are we of the responsibility of every individual Jew to contribute to the end of the galuth by mending our ways, rending our hearts instead of our garments, and remaining faithful to G-d and His Torah? What other result should we expect when we deviate from His will as expressed in the Torah?

We continually demonstrate, and many of the comments from the Tribe demonstrates how little we have understood the spirit of the Torah and how little we have learned from our long sojourn in exile.

Anonymous Sam the Man December 29, 2016 11:39 PM  

Detective Instinct:

Fair Question:

"Who's closer to God in your opinion, a respectful Gentile who basically values Jews and Gentiles the same, or a tribalistic Jew who happens to be a selfish and vain person? If you don't answer this question directly and intelligently, what kind of person would expect me to take you as seriously as you take yourself?"

Pretty easy answer:

The Gentile. I think G-d loves those who try to do his will the best they are able to perceive it.

There are rotten Jews, there are rotten Gentiles. There are also good Gentiles and good Jews.


I much prefer this type of discourse than the prior.


Schwartz,

Obviously your family comes from Germany and I am sure you lost some family. So did mine. Germany was a Christian county, but the actual folks who did the killing were ~50,000 if my memory is correct. The SS, which carried this plan out had a virulently anti-Christian doctrine early on, as I said when I read the official complaints the German army field about the few SS regiments and their anti-Christian deprecations in France and Belgium in 1940, well it gives one pause. The SS did not use crosses as gravestones but upward facing arrows. There was a plan to supplant Christianity in the 3rd Reich with a new religion of perverted Christianity that was essentially worship of the state. When the Germans were losing and they used the Waffen SS as a foreign legion much of the anti-Christian stuff was lessened, as they were recruiting all over Europe, to fight godless communism.

The NAZIs went to great lengths to hid the truth from the public, the official story was they were being transported for settlement. It was much easier for folks to believe that than face the truth.

I very much doubt you can find any reference to devote church going Germans Christians thinking killing of the Jews was a right or actively partaking in that. There were apostate Germans such as Hans Frank, who recanted his actions in Poland at Nuremberg and even wrote a biography where he basically admitted being enticed by the devil himself (AH). If I am in error on my read of the Christians participation, feel free to correct me, it is possible I have not read the right books. I did read Hitler's willing executioners, but it had some issues.

Anonymous Schwartz December 29, 2016 11:51 PM  

"but the actual folks who did the killing were ~50,000 if my memory is correct. The SS,"

And how many were those that let my father's father and his people be dragged out of the home they occupied for a century and be sent off to the camp where he was killed?

Anonymous Afterthought December 29, 2016 11:53 PM  

The actions of extremists, whether they be Jewish or the "alt right" cannot negate the billions of positive Jew - Christian relationships past, present, and future.

Anonymous Schwartz December 29, 2016 11:59 PM  

"Jews have never had friends in the world, because any time a people tries to befriend Jews, they wind up exploited, impoverished and subjugated."

America is many things, but is is not exploited, impoverished nor subjugated by the 2% of the population that is Jewish. Don't make nonsensical arguments like that and not expect to be shown to he a fool.

Anonymous Urban II December 30, 2016 12:07 AM  

Sam the Man

I get your comment of it being love to share the gospel, but understand it will not be perceived that way

It may not be perceived that way and prudence would dictate the best way to approach it. In some cases, it may be impossible to reach someone. I'm glad that you understand it is an act of love.

I'm also glad you have a proper understanding of the Nazis. The movement was not Christian. The fact that Germany was Christian and Hitler was baptized doesn't change this. If anything, Nazis had much more respect for Islam and paganism and thought little of Christianity. They probably agreed with Nietzsche that Christian morality is "slave morality".

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 30, 2016 12:08 AM  

Schwartz wrote:America is many things, but is is not exploited, impoverished nor subjugated by the 2% of the population that is Jewish. Don't make nonsensical arguments like that and not expect to be shown to he a fool.
Don't be economically and historically ignorant and come here to spew your deceitful vomit.
Americans have been and are being exploited. Ask your fellow tribesmen at Goldman Sachs. Americans have been and are being impoverished. Talk to any working-class American worker who has benefitted fromt eh Jewish control of industrial and trade policy in this country. Americans are even now being subjected to an oppressive regime of unlimited population replacement, miscegenation and frank genocide, with the (((usual suspects))) crowing over their success at displacing the White population of this country.
Lies do not become us, sir.

Anonymous Sam the Man December 30, 2016 12:14 AM  

Schwartz,

I back off a wee bit form my prior comments, I forgot about the Police battalions that were involved from 1941 to 43. It is very possible some Christian church goers were in those units. Most of those bustards also avoided prosecution and they did shooting, up close and personal.

Perhaps its my distance from the events but I find it hard to condemn entire nation for acts of omission. I do think it is right to condemn individuals for acts of commission.

Germans in general are well ordered and obedient to lawful authority. Yes the nation is guilty of not rising up to oppose the deportations, but the were subject to very clever propaganda and a government that was very good at finding and routing out opposition (because of the internal collapse in WWI). They certainly knew by late 1942 when word started to get around that something awful was happening in the east that if they lost the war their nation was to be dismembered. That Germans looked the other way when evil acts were committed in their name does not condemn those who stood by, any more than some of the acts done in our name overseas that we have not opposed do not condemn us. At least that is how I see it.

By the By, I went and read a lot of the propaganda the German were exposed to in the 1903s that blamed the Jews for everything in WWI and the postwar period. What I get out of all of it when I ended was that the rejection the idea of collective guilt. If folks could abandon that and treat ever crime to be punished as an individual thing, we would be much better for it.

Anonymous Anonymous December 30, 2016 12:35 AM  

Yes, but after the Jews were expelled anybody remaining had to be cryptojews! Some of those Jews stayed behind because they didn't want to start over in a new land but still.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 30, 2016 12:49 AM  

No amount of name calling will change G-d's promises to the Jewish people.

It wasn't a promise, it was a covenant, and your people have broken it many, many, many times. I wouldn't be so sure God still assumes He's on the hook for his side of things.

I'm just an Agnostic with no particular dog, goat or camel in this fight, but a relatively straightforward reading of Christian theology sure sounds like God finally gave up on his Chosen people after they failed him one too many times and went with Plan B, opening up salvation to anyone.

Of course, if you don't believe in Christ, then no problem. Except, well, there's still that whole question of whether the Chosen People have upheld your side of the covenant. Doesn't look like it to me, but hey, my judgement isn't what your immortal soul needs to worry about.

Blogger Detective Instinct December 30, 2016 1:10 AM  

Sam the Man wrote:Detective Instinct:

Fair Question:

"Who's closer to God in your opinion, a respectful Gentile who basically values Jews and Gentiles the same, or a tribalistic Jew who happens to be a selfish and vain person? If you don't answer this question directly and intelligently, what kind of person would expect me to take you as seriously as you take yourself?"

Pretty easy answer:

The Gentile. I think G-d loves those who try to do his will the best they are able to perceive it.

There are rotten Jews, there are rotten Gentiles. There are also good Gentiles and good Jews.

I much prefer this type of discourse than the prior.


First: you should realize and accept that your choice to try to speak for Jew613 when that input wasn't wanted or needed was a bad one.

Good, we agree that a respectful Gentile is closer to God than a selfish Jew. Since such a state can be attained by Gentiles without relying upon any non-Christian Jewish understanding of the Old and New Testaments, what then is so special about being a Jew from God's point of view?

Jesus and His Apostles fervently promoted the OT idea that we should love God, ourselves, and our neighbors. Are you fully on board with how other genuine Christians have continued to do that? It seems to me that you and other Jewish non-Christians are not, which I reasonably infer to be a reflection of a non-intimate relationship with God.

If you believe my perception about the relative lack of love from Jewish non-Christians is an inaccurate one, you should provide evidence why.

Blogger Lazarus December 30, 2016 1:44 AM  

Jack Amok wrote:It wasn't a promise, it was a covenant, and your people have broken it many, many, many times. I wouldn't be so sure God still assumes He's on the hook for his side of things.



Let us say there were some promises made BEFORE the Covenant.
Which are fulfilled by the events of the prophesies.

The promises to Abraham

Blogger Shimshon December 30, 2016 2:02 AM  

@143 "How can the act be "inherently evil" in the eyes of secular Jews?"

Vox, "All Israel is responsible for one another." Kol Yisrael arevim zeh l'zeh. It's the tribalism, and it's Torah law. Besides, in Israel, "secular" as a label really only applies to a small fraction of the population.

Of course, as I said, that doesn't mean clowns liked Baked Alaska...I mean Michael Ben Ari...should rip or burn Christian bibles up publicly.

Jew613, you're right that there are laws against proselytizing. But they are weak and barely enforced, even when blatantly violated. The police are always looking for the chimerical next Jewish Underground instead.

Blogger Ron December 30, 2016 2:20 AM  

@Shimshon

I dont have a problem with Ben Ami. He had every right to do what he did. Missionizing is a persistent and obnoxious problem in Israel, it is not as if he walked into a Christian bookstore, bought one of their books and then publicly insulted them, or took a diplomatic gift and did this.

You are representing a new political party in Israel, and you must set a high moral tone that respects others unless they disrespect you first. You dont know what someone has been through. Yes, there are many fools, but you must never put anyone down.

Blogger Ron December 30, 2016 3:14 AM  

@VD

"Why is it inherently evil"

Because your doctrine is false in ways that has severe consequences if a Jew follows it.

Jews are obligated to keep the 613 commandments given by God, Gentiles are obligated to seven (there are some who say more but whatever), a Gentile who follows any of the basic variants of Christianity will usually follow those seven laws and in such a case will go to Heaven. A Jew who should know better and does the same is violating Gods will. Something that frustrates the Divine plan and brings calamity upon humanity.

Your doctrine teaches that the covenant was abrogated. Its fine by us if you believe that, because we are mostly concerned with if you follow the basic seven laws and are at peace with us. So we dont bother arguing it as it makes no difference. But the covenant wasnt abrogated, and if a Jew is convinced it was he will end up violating the laws he is obliged to, one of which regards the how we are required to perceive God. That is, as a singular unified being Who has no corporeal form whatsoever. Something Gentiles are not required to do. As well as laws regarding intermarriage with a Gentile.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

Blogger Ron December 30, 2016 3:18 AM  

I meant "laws prohibiting intermarriage with a Gentile" and by this I was referring to someone not of our faith, rather than someone from another race who has adopted our faith, as would be the case of Ruth, mother of the Davidic line.

Blogger Shimshon December 30, 2016 3:39 AM  

@Ron it was a stunt, that's all.

If it's illegal, why not demand the police do something? Or convene hearings on why the police aren't doing anything? Or something practical?

If it's legal, why not do something like push to make it illegal. Agitate for it, whatever.

Why not do something to expel the perpetrators?

I don't think Vox or most neutral pro-nationalism outsiders would even have a problem with that. Ripping up their bible, on the other hand, will not stop the problem. The usual response is in fact to double down, while needlessly antagonizing them.

I don't deny his right to do the same. Or that what he did was "wrong" in some way. Obviously it's not.

It's theatrics and nothing more. Is this all that an MK in the coalition can do?

Blogger Ron December 30, 2016 6:54 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous To Mock a Killingbird December 30, 2016 8:36 AM  

@34

.. the Spanish probably did not subscribe to the New Testament for quite sometime because they are catholic and the New Testament was translated by Martin Luther.

Into German. If you think the Spanish were incapable of reading Latin, what good would German do them?

Somwe people need to think, before they write.


Anonymous To Mock a Killingbird December 30, 2016 8:47 AM  

@175

"Germans didn't renounce Christianity when they embraced the Nazis. Nearly 100% of the German population under the Nazis"

A lot of people don't renounce their theistic religion when they begin worshipping the state. Their apostasy is constructive, not declarative. I don't care of Ruth Bader Ginsberg observes every tenet of Judaism; she worships the state.

Blogger The Hammer December 30, 2016 10:32 AM  

@191 Ron,

See my comment in @164. It doesn't have to be about repudiating the commandments. The New Testament certainly doesn't, as it was written by observant Jews.

Blogger Detective Instinct December 30, 2016 12:39 PM  

Ron, what makes you think you properly understand what Jehovah wants from all of us?

Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness. -Genesis 15:6

Gentile Christians understand and respect this concept at least as well as any Jew does, do they not? Judaism is not what justified Abraham; it takes more than religious zeal or Jewish heritage to please God.

As Sam the Man pointed out, "Most Jews just want to be able to practice their faith without being messed with. Jews are not trying to convert anyone, they really do not care about Gentiles, most religious Jews are inward looking."

Anti-Christian Jews do not respect the faith of Abraham, for if they did, they'd recognize and celebrate those Gentiles who revere God the same way he did. Their rejection of Jesus and their insularity speaks to where their hearts are at.

Blogger Tom Kratman December 30, 2016 3:49 PM  

Israel is not and never has been an ally. We have some common values, but those do not an alliance make. We have a lot of the same enemies but neither do those an alliance make. We sometimes work together, under the table as often as not, but that does not an alliance make.

On the other hand, they've attacked and sunk one of our naval vessels (oh, yes, they fucking did), killed our personnel, stolen our secrets and sold them to our enemies, and looked out for number one from start to finish.

There are certainly Israelis, and not all of them American-born, who have very warm feelings for and even loyalty to the United States, but one rather doubts they're a majority. They don't make an alliance either.

1 – 200 of 204 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts