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Sunday, December 04, 2016

Making Europe Great Again: Italy edition

Today Prime Minister Renzi's attempt to centralize the Italian government in order to render it more subservient to the EU occupiers is going to fail. This will be the second domino to fall after BREXIT, the third may be the ascension of the nationalist Austrian Freedom Party to the ceremonial role as President:
Donald Trump’s victory—which shocked Europe’s political and media elite—gives the populists backing the “No” side of Italy’s referendum the political rocket fuel they need for a virtually guaranteed win.

That momentum will be all but impossible to reverse. Anti-elite sentiment is rising on both sides of the Atlantic. And I bet the global populist revolution will continue.

If Italians buck the establishment—and it looks like they will—it will clear a path for a populist party to take power and for Italy to exit the euro.

If that happens, the fallout will be catastrophic for global markets. The Financial Times recently put it this way:

An Italian exit from the single currency would trigger the total collapse of the eurozone within a very short period.

It would probably lead to the most violent economic shock in history, dwarfing the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy in 2008 and the 1929 Wall Street crash.

If the FT is even partially right, we’re looking at a possible stock market crash of historic proportions. This is why we’re watching the December 4 referendum so closely.

The referendum is meant to concentrate more power in Italy’s central government. On that point alone, everyone should oppose it. The centralization of power never leads to good things.

A “Yes” vote is effectively a vote of confidence in the current pro-EU Italian establishment. This is what the global elite wants.

A “No” vote is how the average Italian can give the finger to the faceless EU bureaucrats in Brussels, whom many blame—quite correctly—for their problems.

Trump’s win has been a double whammy for Italy’s pro-EU establishment.

First, it emboldens the populist forces fighting the referendum.

Second, it humiliates and politically castrates Matteo Renzi, the current Italian prime minister. Renzi took a rare step when he openly endorsed Hillary Clinton. He was the only European leader to do so.

As one of Renzi’s rivals said after Trump’s victory, “Matteo Renzi is politically finished from today, he’s a dead man walking.”

Other Italian politicians are furious that he weakened Italy’s standing with the new Trump administration....

Austria

Austria is holding a presidential election, also on December 4. It’s actually a redo of an election held in May, where a populist candidate, Norbert Hofer of the Freedom Party, barely lost.

Austrian courts found irregularities in the results and ordered a prompt new election. But when opinion polls showed the populist candidate in the lead, the government delayed the vote until December 4, giving a lame excuse about faulty adhesive on absentee ballots. Despite the foot-dragging, Mr. Hofer looks set to win the December 4 vote.

France

France has a presidential election next spring. There’s a chance that Marine Le Pen, leader of the Eurosceptic National Front party, will do better than many expect. After more than a decade of disappointment under presidents François Hollande and Nicolas Sarkozy, French voters are clamoring for something different.

Spain

Spain recently re-elected incumbent Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy. However, Spanish voters fled traditional political parties en masse for new populist upstarts Podemos and Ciudadanos. So Rajoy was unable to form a majority government. Rajoy now leads a severely weak minority government. The political power of the Spanish populist parties is only expected to grow.

Germany

Angela Merkel, the chancellor of Germany, embodies the European establishment more than any other politician. Her party suffered a series of stinging defeats in regional elections this year, mostly because of her signature lax immigration policies, which have flooded Germany with migrants. Merkel’s troubles have only helped the Alternative for Germany, a new populist party surging in popularity. The party could pose a real problem for Merkel in the 2017 federal elections.

The Netherlands

As the Netherlands approaches elections in March, Geert Wilders’s Party for Freedom, which advocates leaving the EU, is basically tied in opinion polls with the establishment parties.
Meanwhile, the children of EU elites are literally being raped and murdered by the very "refugees" they welcomed inside their nations. Their trans-European globalism isn't merely untenable these days, it is very nearly as intellectually finished as Communism.

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71 Comments:

Blogger Otto Lamp December 04, 2016 8:11 AM  

If Italy abandons the Euro "...we’re looking at a possible stock market crash of historic proportions."

Give me a freaking break. Scare monger much? This is the same thing they said about Brexit and Trump winning, and the were wrong in both instances. They're wrong this time too.

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton December 04, 2016 8:31 AM  

@1 It's zero hedge, man. the ultimate permabears. take it with a grain of salt.

Blogger random Earth dweller December 04, 2016 8:31 AM  

Just in time. Demography was reaching the tipping point.

Blogger clk December 04, 2016 8:43 AM  

Two world wars in europe in the last century based on nationalist tension... it will be unlikely that the US will come to the rescue a 3rd time and the UK isnt in a position to do it anymore...so sure -pour out some gas and give a bunch of matches to some nationalist zealots...

This is one of the possible outcomes of what you seek to unlease.... nothing is 100% but theres a history here that should not be ignored.

Anonymous Kreator December 04, 2016 8:54 AM  

The first domino who -would- have fallen would have been Greece and the epic ammounts the "NO" option got in the 15' referendum, but fuck Clinton's for getting their filthy hands on another country's affairs, I hope Trump's presidency puts a halt on that.

Blogger Orville December 04, 2016 9:00 AM  

The worst crash ever won't be caused by any one specific thing such as Brexit, Italexit, Austrexit, etc. It will happen because of the vast complexity of re-hypothecated and intertwined global debt.

Anonymous TAC December 04, 2016 9:01 AM  

I live in France and I agree that french people want a change in their politics. We wanted it for decades, but still don't seem to accept anything else than traditional right/left parties. How can it change if it keeps voting for the same ? But Front National is on the rise and I hope this 2017 election will be the turning point.

Anonymous Garrulus December 04, 2016 9:05 AM  

The euro disintegrating would lead to a severe crash. (EUROZONE 10T economy EU 20T economy). and note, Brexit has not actually taken place. and note nothing got fixed since 2008, things only were undermined deeper. I welcome the crash.

OpenID bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 December 04, 2016 9:23 AM  

"An Italian exit from the single currency..."
Oddly, I'm not seeing the part about
the latest experiment in a New World Order
being just about a "single currency", at ALL. As a LEASH maybe..as "official travel permit" perhaps.
CaptDMO

Anonymous aegis-1080 December 04, 2016 9:30 AM  

Spain is kind of stuck with Rajoy at the moment since the alternatives are:

a)Podemos. Pro-EU commies that turns out were "advisors" of the socialist revolution at Venezuela. Rajoy ended up in charge again explicitely because the not-Podemos vote had to end up somewhere.
b)Ciudadanos. A coalition of the Very Smart People that was created to oppose Catalan nationalism and secession. It's leader put it as such: "Catalonia is my homeland, Spain is my country and Europe is our future".

So, really, don't expect much.

Blogger Baelzar December 04, 2016 9:33 AM  

When can we expect results for the Referendum vote? It's about 330pm now in Rome.

Blogger Johnny December 04, 2016 9:35 AM  

I suspect Merkel's immigration madness is behind lots of this, but it remains in the background because it raises the charge of racism. If I had the power to impact events, I would deport all the new entrants to whatever country or local still pretends that they are a good idea. Let the virtue signalers consume their own medicine.

(And while we are at it in the US, deport the various riff into the sanctuary cities. Letum have the criminal aliens if they think that is the path to virtue.)

Blogger wreckage December 04, 2016 9:50 AM  

"Two world wars in europe in the last century based on nationalist tension"

No, based purely and entirely on Germany's trans-national ambitions to imperial rule of a unified continent.

Without German-speaker's murderous obsession with pan-European unity via conquest and blood, neither of the bloodiest conflicts in human history would have happened.

Blogger wreckage December 04, 2016 9:54 AM  

If war breaks out in Europe over national and ethnic identity, historians will once again be left with little choice but to lay the blame at the feet of Germany's trans-national, imperialistic elite, and their utter contempt for the rights and privileges of nationhood of any European peoples.

Frankly, German high political office should be a one-way door into a sausage mincer. The German people, and everyone else, would be better off.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian December 04, 2016 9:59 AM  

It would probably lead to the most violent economic shock in history, dwarfing the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy in 2008 and the 1929 Wall Street crash.

If the FT is even partially right, we’re looking at a possible stock market crash of historic proportions. This is why we’re watching the December 4 referendum so closely.

It is statements such as these that make he hate people and wish them dead.

Blogger pyrrhus December 04, 2016 10:17 AM  

Stephen Hawking enters the fray....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-03/most-dangerous-moment-human-history-stephen-hawking-warns

Anonymous Teutscher December 04, 2016 10:20 AM  

Sure, it's the "ugly german" again! I understand that most of the readers here are US-based, so they have been brainwashed like german people -- Germany is a colony of the US -- during their history lessons, but please, do read Christopher Clark, Stefan Scheil or Helmut Roewer's new work on WWI (just reviewed by Paul Gottfried, who speaks german). It's tiresome. Two german works that shed some light on the west's anti-german hatred are Karlheinz Weissman's "Der hässliche Deutsche" ("The ugly german") and Roewer's "Kill the Huns!".

Anonymous Teutscher December 04, 2016 10:23 AM  

Sorry, it's "Die Erfindung des hässlichen Deutschen" by Weissmann (The invention of the ugly german). But still, it's too easy to just blame germans for everything. Too easy.

Anonymous Mark Auld December 04, 2016 10:30 AM  

I do not believe dismantling the Brusselcrats power base will result in eco meltdown,but if it does,rise from the ashes.

Blogger Hobgoblin1975 December 04, 2016 10:33 AM  

Lotta' commies in Italy , prediction: Doesn't go our way. Hope I'm wrong but commies cheat.

Austria, no election shenanigans this time and the nationalist are galvanized. Prediction: Win for Hofer

Blogger Orville December 04, 2016 10:41 AM  

In the great financial unraveling to come I'm hoping that the collapse of centralization and complexity will lead to greater opportunities for the smaller fish during the decentralization and stabilization phase. I'm speaking only of the financial side. The ethnic side of this could make things much more messy and drawn out.

Blogger Matthew December 04, 2016 10:55 AM  

clk is an idiot.

Blogger GFR December 04, 2016 11:09 AM  

The history that is being ignored is that rogue german governments have destroyed europe twice in the past and threaten to do so again. Let's see if we can reign these bastards in without so much bloodshed this time.

Blogger pyrrhus December 04, 2016 11:11 AM  

Treason, refugee smuggling and the NGOs.....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-04/something-strange-taking-place-mediterranean

Blogger pyrrhus December 04, 2016 11:25 AM  

Media calling Austrian election for Green candidate based on a few exit polls....http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-04/sundays-day-reckoning-austria-braces-historic-presidential-election-result

Blogger GFR December 04, 2016 11:25 AM  

You know why the germans have a bad reputation? Because they insist on sending violent young men into other countries to rob rape and murder the locals.
.
It is this unfortunate practice that results in the populations of Germany's neighbouring countries viewing them negatively.
.
Germany should try to improve it's image by not doing that.

Blogger seeingsights December 04, 2016 11:27 AM  

The election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 emboldened anti-Communists forces around the world. Soviet Communism collapsed a decade later.

The election of Donald Trump gave the anti-EU, anti-globalists forces a new, and powerful ally. I expect the European Union to fall into the dust-bin of history.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 04, 2016 11:29 AM  

No, based purely and entirely on Germany's trans-national ambitions to imperial rule of a unified continent.

@wreckage, could you explain further how Germany's ambitions to imperial rule of a unified continent caused WWI in particular? "Purely and entirely" is a very strong statement given all of the actors and actions involved.

Anonymous Dave December 04, 2016 11:30 AM  

@25 per same link Hofer's campaign manager has conceded defeat

Blogger J.M. December 04, 2016 11:33 AM  

"Two world wars in europe in the last century based on nationalist tension"

No, based purely and entirely on Germany's trans-national ambitions to imperial rule of a unified continent.

Without German-speaker's murderous obsession with pan-European unity via conquest and blood, neither of the bloodiest conflicts in human history would have happened.


Just shut up brainwashed American. For starters WWI was not even started by Germany and had your country not meddled in European affairs the war would have been over much sooner and with a smaller toll. Had you not financed the Bolshevik revolution it would have been harder for the communists to massacre millions in order to achieve their "Workers Paradise"...If anything Germany does what the U.S. says, no sovereign nation suffers foreign troops on its soil and Germany is still an occupied nation...

Blogger Balázs Varga December 04, 2016 11:44 AM  

Remember Orban endorsed Trump. It seems I found his antithesis.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 04, 2016 11:45 AM  

@J.M., (((German-speakers))).

I would, as a start, reference "The Guns of August" and note the correspondence between cousins Nicholas and Willhelm, both (((targeted))) for destruction included there. Particularly noting Willhelm's dread over what he saw coming and his seeming inability to stop it.

I would also reference Benjamin Freedman's 1961 speech at the Willard Hotel.

Anonymous europeasant December 04, 2016 11:48 AM  

German Nationalism in the 1930's would have been just fine, If only it was confined to Germany. But no, some idiot decides to send German armies into Austria,Czechoslovakia,Poland,France,Norway and for God's sakes Russia!
I like the German people(I was born there)but there is some of that superiority/follower shit going on there that I don't understand. Heil Leader ve vill do vatever you vont jus tell uz how great ve are.
I would like to see Europe united but the people in Brussels are leading Europe to strife and disaster.

Blogger Salt December 04, 2016 11:51 AM  

Of interest and concerns Italy

"Human traffickers contact the Italian coast guard in advance to receive support and to pick up their dubious cargo. NGO ships are directed to the “rescue spot” even as those to be rescued are still in Libya. The 15 ships that we observed are owned or leased by NGOs have regularly been seen to leave their Italian ports, head south, stop short of reaching the Libyan coast, pick up their human cargo, and take course back 260 miles to Italy even though the port of Zarzis in Tunis is just 60 mile away from the rescue spot.

The organizations in question are: MOAS, Jugend Rettet, Stichting Bootvluchting, Médecins Sans Frontières, Save the Children, Proactiva Open Arms, Sea-Watch.org, Sea-Eye and Life Boat."

Anonymous Shut up rabbit December 04, 2016 11:58 AM  

wreckage wrote:No, based purely and entirely on Germany's trans-national ambitions to imperial rule of a unified continent.

Alternatively, WWI: the allies slapping down Germany for daring to try to become a colonial power; WWII: predictable backlash at the ridiculously harsh settlement of WWI.

Anonymous VFM #6306 December 04, 2016 12:06 PM  

Sink the warships.

Anonymous AlexT December 04, 2016 12:14 PM  

Hofer just conceded.

Blogger seeingsights December 04, 2016 12:23 PM  

This is my take on the Austria election result: The EU is popular in Austria, which makes sense because the EU is Germany-centric and Austria is linked with Germany. Hofer promised a referendum on EU membership. Austrians are not as anti-EU. The link below gives stats on the Austrian level of support for the EU.

http://www.thelocal.at/20160623/40-of-austrians-in-favour-of-austrian-eu-referendum-brexit

Blogger Johnny December 04, 2016 12:23 PM  

All the European nationalities have had their periods of expansion by military methods. Russia, or the USSR, was or is an empire, more a prisoner of nations than a nation. The French kicked bloody hell under Napoleon. Aside from some early ambition to control territory on the continent, the British spent their energy abroad, as did the Spanish. The Swedes even had some fun in Germany. I forget. The thirty years war? Whatever. And way back when it was the Italians. Or was it the Greeks under Alexander the great?

German militarism is unique only in that it occurred more recently. Which should be unsurprising in that they were the last major ethnic group in Europe to consolidate.

Anonymous BGKB December 04, 2016 12:28 PM  

A “No” vote is how the average Italian can give the finger to the faceless EU bureaucrats in Brussels,

Don't just give the finger, be generous give the whole fist.

It's zero hedge, man. the ultimate permabears. take it with a grain of salt.

The good thing about SHTFPLAN is that the world is always ending tomorrow so you wont be surprised.

#16 Stephen Hawking enters the fray
“We can do this [overcome the challenges], I am an enormous optimist for my species; but it will require the elites, from London to Harvard, from Cambridge to Hollywood, to learn the lessons of the past year. To learn above all a measure of humanity.”

If he is talking about measuring humanity by IQ which is mostly genetic, this guy is the biggest shitlord out there.

Blogger The Kurgan December 04, 2016 12:30 PM  

Clk,
Fuck you, retard. The only history we should be repeating is the one of beheading the elite.
Italy was never a country and a NO vote give us a chance to return to federalism and in due course individual states. And for my money, City states. If it takes war to throw the sarecens in the sea and let the Serenissima return to being an indipendent city-state, then so be it.
People are so sick of it that when it kicks off it will be over in a month, even if the repercussions will last decades.

Anonymous Mark Auld December 04, 2016 12:31 PM  

Austria down,come on and pull for Italy.

Blogger The Kurgan December 04, 2016 12:33 PM  

He's intentionally idiotic though. I smell a troll.

Blogger Lew Rand December 04, 2016 12:37 PM  

I agree on the troll question, but I was curious if it was debated on what should have been done?

Assuming that Russia was about to break the treaty in WW2 and attack Germany and they just beat them to it (causing the war on that front either way, even if Germany had not declared war), what should they have done once they broke the Russians army that as laid out in offensive mode (and thus overrun).

I believe historically, Germany tried to sweep to Moscow just as they had swept to Paris for a surrender, but winter got them. What would have been a more prudent choice (since at that point (after breaking the Russian front preparing for an attack) they were the only continental power left.

Or were the sources that Russia was preparing to backside Germany false?

Anonymous BGKB December 04, 2016 12:37 PM  

But still, it's too easy to just blame germans for everything. Too easy.

What about the gay jewish German Minister of Justus,Heiko Maas?

The organizations in question are: ... Médecins Sans Frontières

Too bad it was only low level locals who died when Doctors without Borders fled Somalia after 200+ employees had been killed.

Anonymous Philipp December 04, 2016 12:42 PM  

As Winston Churchill pointed out: The problem with the Germans is you have them either at your feet or at your throat.

However, blaming German nationalism for both World Wars is wrong. The breakout First World War was the result of the actions of the German, Austrian-Hungarian, French, British, Russian and Serbiann political, diplomatic and military elites.

As for WWII, the German people did not want war. It was the Hitler and the Nazis who wanted war.

Anonymous BGKB December 04, 2016 12:46 PM  

OT: Who feels like doing some shitlording in person? Set up crystations for after the election. https://www.meetup.com/Support-Group-for-Liberals-Progressives-Democrats/

Blogger J.M. December 04, 2016 12:46 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger J.M. December 04, 2016 12:49 PM  

Clk,
Fuck you, retard. The only history we should be repeating is the one of beheading the elite.
Italy was never a country and a NO vote give us a chance to return to federalism and in due course individual states. And for my money, City states. If it takes war to throw the sarecens in the sea and let the Serenissima return to being an indipendent city-state, then so be it.
People are so sick of it that when it kicks off it will be over in a month, even if the repercussions will last decades.


CLK might have a deranged version of history but there is one point that has to be addressed. When you are smaller, you are a lot more insignificant in the world stage and more reliant on alliances and the good will of your bigger neighbours and local empires. In the case of Italy, the last thing Italy needs is secession of the states. Italian politics need a purge from leftists but secession would ensure that the city states that replace "Italy" would be satellites of bigger neighbours till the end of time. We are not in the Middle Ages where geography made invaders think twice before launching an invasion and transportation as a function was infinitely harder to perform. A federation with more power to regional entities is the best outcome. Had the 13 colonies followed your advice (go their own ways) they would never have amounted to anything besides being something like modern day Ireland or Scotland; expansion was the best option.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 04, 2016 12:50 PM  

Leftists and cucks will continue to predict very bad things will happen if they are defeated. When they are defeated, any bad thing that comes along will also be blamed on we who defeated them.

They cannot recognize reality. Again, even one's genitalia cannot be accepted as definitive proof of one's gender among this lot. They are unmoored from reality entirely, unscientifically bending it always to fit their theories.

So it's no surprise they cannot comprehend chains of natural causation. Their harebrained multiculti policies and disastrous foreign adventurism during the Arab Spring have led to the greatest migration invasion of Europe seen since Ghengis Khan.

Naturally, everything that will happen for the next generation or two in Europe will be in response to the gigantic, existential problems arising from this invasion.

Blogger Johnny December 04, 2016 12:50 PM  

"Assuming that Russia was about to break the treaty in WW2 and attack Germany and they just beat them to it (causing the war on that front either way, even if Germany had not declared war), what should they have done once they broke the Russians army that as laid out in offensive mode (and thus overrun)."

Owing to glasnost it is now documented that Stalin was planning to invade German. Hitler beat him to the punch by a year. And as noted, the Russian army was arrayed for an offensive. That along with Stalin's intransigence was why the Russians got beat so badly early on.

The remarkable thing to me is that Hitler repeated almost exactly, the mistake Napoleon made. Germany was yet another European power to overextend itself in Russia.

Blogger J.M. December 04, 2016 12:50 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Johnny December 04, 2016 12:54 PM  

The thing about these little nation states, Italy breaking up into pieces, is that it requires a non warlike period. Otherwise your neighbors will take advantage of your small size, something France and Britain were doing to the German Duchies before they united. If things go back to nationalism, really Italy should stay together. Perhaps a weak union would be the best choice. Something they have already if I understand there politics.

Blogger J.M. December 04, 2016 12:55 PM  

@J.M., (((German-speakers))).

I would, as a start, reference "The Guns of August" and note the correspondence between cousins Nicholas and Willhelm, both (((targeted))) for destruction included there. Particularly noting Willhelm's dread over what he saw coming and his seeming inability to stop it.

I would also reference Benjamin Freedman's 1961 speech at the Willard Hotel.


Thank you for the recommendation. I will check out that book.

@Phillip

That citation coming from one of the worst hypocrites of the world is almost meaningless, especially when his empire had a quarter of the globe as its subject. As you said the WWI was the result of the actions of many actors, but the responsibility for the lengthening of the war falls square on the British. Had they accepted a return to the previous boundaries and a cease-fire as proposed by Germany, the war would have been over by 1916 not in 1918, two years and millions of dead men later.

Blogger Johnny December 04, 2016 1:19 PM  

I am not real big on war guilt. It is the nation state version of cop guilt as pushed by Black Lives Matter. It is an inherent lefty way of thinking about things.

Anonymous Philipp December 04, 2016 1:21 PM  

@54: J.M. You are right regarding Churchill and the British imperialists being hypocrites. I remember a historian writing "the British Queen was the Empress of India, the Germans only wanted to build a railway to Baghdad." (When Iraq was part of the Ottoman Empire before WWI).

However, Churchill is not completely wrong when it comes to the German national character.

Niall Fergueson has argued that it would have been better for Britain (and Europe) if the British had stayed out of the war and let the continental powers might among themselves. He argues that a German-dominated Europe would have looked more or less similarily (geopolitically speaking) the one we have today.

I would also recommend to you Christopher Clark's master piece "The Sleepwalkers". He explains how Europe went to war in 1914.

Blogger pyrrhus December 04, 2016 1:30 PM  

Churchill, the most vociferous voice for entering WW1, caused the economic and demographic destruction of Britain in that war. In WW2, he finished the job and destroyed the Empire as well. You have to laugh when you see him described as a "great statesman."

Anonymous Eumaois December 04, 2016 1:33 PM  

Well, that's that. As a commentor from Breitbart said, the gates of Vienna have been swung right open. I am disinclined to feel bad for the Austrians for committing cultural and demographic suicide, since they did it themselves. Nonetheless, I am remain deeply concerned. I wonder what Austria will look like 15 years from now.

Anonymous Bumbaru December 04, 2016 1:37 PM  

57. pyrrhus
Wasn't he the guy that refused to announce his people that the germans were going to bombard Coventry?

Anonymous Shut up rabbit December 04, 2016 2:14 PM  

Philipp wrote:He argues that a German-dominated Europe would have looked more or less similarily (geopolitically speaking) the one we have today.

Then who would have paid for France's socialist, islamic welfare state?

Blogger Sam Spade December 04, 2016 2:45 PM  

Only one correction, Vox.

I'm from Spain, and I can confirm that Podemos (communist, Chaves simpathizers) and Ciudadanos (cuckservatives in the end, trying to paint themselves as an alternative to the conservative stablishment repesented by the Partido Popular leaded by Rajoy), are as estabishment, NWO and invasion friendly as it gets.

The populist right parties are fucking minority, ostracized as neo nazis by the media, and/or very incompetent and stale.

The reality is that here the people that doesn't want inmigration vote for the lesser evil of the Partido Popular no realizing they are traitors, because nobody hear talks about in political discussion, and at least they are not openly pro inmigration (left populists) as Podemos or PSOE (left stablishment party).

They also keep voting Partido Popular despite their TERRIBLE management because they see the left as incompetent in economic matters, and are VERY afraid of the communists governing the country.

The social sitation with immigration is not as bad as in France or Germany, so the people hasn't reacted yet to it. We still not have our future candidate to God Emperor.

But I can confirm that even inside the left few people are pro immigration, because of the high unemployment (20-25%) and economic crisis.

Blogger Unknown December 04, 2016 3:11 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger cheddarman December 04, 2016 3:27 PM  

Sam Spade,

Spain had the wisdom to choose Franco over the leftists in the last century, I believe Spain will find another Franco when the time is right, or many Francos if needed.

Blogger Kyle Searle December 04, 2016 3:57 PM  

People being people and having short memories, winter votes will result in less anti-migrant sentiment because the migrants are either returned home for the winter or not out-and-about. Also the Balkans have done a lot to stem the flow of migrants already. I assume the Balkans still teach their children about the tyranny of the Ottomans. It really does take a crisis level event to get a lot of people to take action.

OTOH, the high turnout in Italy, especially in the North of the country, looks like a good sign for a "No" vote and a rejection of the technocrats.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 04, 2016 4:41 PM  

clk wrote:.so sure -pour out some gas and give a bunch of matches to some nationalist zealots...

This is one of the possible outcomes of what you seek to unlease.... nothing is 100% but theres a history here that should not be ignored.

It's not nationalism that leads to war. It's republicanism, socialism, imperialism.
If you don't want Nazis stop building Weimar.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 04, 2016 4:42 PM  

Spain chose Franco only because the other choice was yet more civil war.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster December 04, 2016 4:49 PM  

"Otherwise your neighbors will take advantage of your small size"

What does size matter if you have weapons that can wipe out, or at least economically obliterate, anyone who tries to attack you?

The biggest army in the world isn't going to stop a few of your cities being nuked, or millions of your people being killed by a suicide tourist carrying a genetically-engineered disease.

'Bigger is better' may have made sense in the 1950s, when government was relatively limited and relatively sane, and the side with the biggest factories usually won. These days, big nations are an economic liability, and they're about to become a military liability, too. To advanced weapons, a big nation is just a target-rich environment, and you can't afford to have a nation large enough to contain many people you don't trust, when they can build a killer virus in their garage.

The EU makes absolutely no sense, so it will die no matter what the Eurocrats want. But many of the nations in the EU make little sense either.

Anonymous MendoScot December 04, 2016 6:31 PM  

What strikes me is the number of tweets in Greek on the #italyreferendum tag.

Krypteia on the horizon? Who will the youth side with?

Blogger J.M. December 04, 2016 7:13 PM  

Satan's Hamster wrote:"Otherwise your neighbors will take advantage of your small size"

What does size matter if you have weapons that can wipe out, or at least economically obliterate, anyone who tries to attack you?

The biggest army in the world isn't going to stop a few of your cities being nuked, or millions of your people being killed by a suicide tourist carrying a genetically-engineered disease.

'Bigger is better' may have made sense in the 1950s, when government was relatively limited and relatively sane, and the side with the biggest factories usually won. These days, big nations are an economic liability, and they're about to become a military liability, too. To advanced weapons, a big nation is just a target-rich environment, and you can't afford to have a nation large enough to contain many people you don't trust, when they can build a killer virus in their garage.

The EU makes absolutely no sense, so it will die no matter what the Eurocrats want. But many of the nations in the EU make little sense either.


Yeah, because Luxembourg is nowadays sole superpower right? (At least according to your twisted logic).

Look, while you are right about the EU, Russia and China know that such advice would only lead to ruin and constant warfare, as it happened in other periods of their history. While being a big country is not always convenient, it's proven fact that economies of scale have advantages of their own (bigger demand, bigger supply chains, more incentives to innovation ie. there is a reason inventions and other innovations in art and sciences didn't happen in the fjords of Norway, Switzerland or in Iceland but In Germany, UK, France, Spain etc.). Populations centers with hinterland have a quality of their own so to speak, even with current circumstances.

Whether you like it or not, a big country with resources and smart and united people will always be better and able to crush city states abandoned by all and with no place to rely on (read no hinterland). Moreover all the things you mentioned (cyberwarfare, nuclear/biological/chemical weapons) while crippling for a big country like China or U.S. can wipe out overnight any city-state that is attacked by them.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster December 04, 2016 11:12 PM  

"Yeah, because Luxembourg is nowadays sole superpower right?"

When did Luxembourg get nukes?

"Moreover all the things you mentioned (cyberwarfare, nuclear/biological/chemical weapons) while crippling for a big country like China or U.S. can wipe out overnight any city-state that is attacked by them."

You think America will trade LA, NYC and DC for... Luxembourg? (OK, many Americans would, but not the people who want America to be a 'superpower')

You're stuck in an industrial-era mindset in a post-industrial world. That won't be a good place to be in the next few decades.

Blogger wreckage December 05, 2016 12:10 AM  

The answer is the loose imperialism... federalism might be a more familiar way of thinking of it... espoused by Nasim Taleb. That demands a loosening of central control to permit self-determination by member states, while having a huge-scale trade network and defence capacity.

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