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Tuesday, December 27, 2016

Moths drawn to the media flame

There has been a fair amount of drama of late surrounding the Deploraball, Mike, Milo, Baked Alaska, and perhaps a few others for all I know. I am not involved with it, I am not attending it, I know nothing about it, nor have I spoken to anyone about any of it. I haven't even been on Twitter.

However, I suspect I may understand the core issues underlying whatever the various details might be. Basically, there are people who understand the difference between social media and mainstream media and there are people who don't. There is also a fairly significant difference between those who seek to get any attention they can and those who are under incessant scrutiny by enemies looking to discredit and disqualify. Having been one of the latter for the last 15 years, I understand what many of those who have never been subjected to a media blitz simply can't grasp until they experience it for themselves.

The fact is that if you run around using vulgar language, throwing Roman salutes, wearing bedsheets, denying the Holocaust, publicly soiling yourself, denigrating Christianity, declaring your intention of attacking an elected official, expressing your attraction to a minor, putting naked pictures of yourself online, or threatening to commit violence on another individual, you are not ready for prime time. It doesn't matter who you are, or what else you might have to say, you have rendered yourself completely vulnerable to a public neutering courtesy of the media. Just ask Anthony Weiner... and he's on their side.

Moreover, those who are dealing with a hostile mainstream media on a regular basis simply don't have either the time or the inclination to defend your stupid, attention-seeking antics. If you don't have enough respect for yourself or your public image to put on your big boy pants and play by the observable rules, there is no reason for anyone else with anything at stake to maintain a connection to you. You're not worth it.

If you want to publicly neuter yourself, go ahead. If you want to defecate all over yourself in the name of principle, courage, the Third Reich, or sheer bloodymindedness, that is absolutely your prerogative. Do as you see fit. But you should not expect anyone else to stand passively by you and allow you to splatter your self-destructive shit all over them.

This isn't about SJW attacks, where one minor violation of the Narrative results in a media-driven SJW witch hunt. This is about attention-seeking provocateurs failing to grasp the difference between social media memes and real-world public relations, and in doing so, creating both distractions and potential headaches for others.

Look at how the New York Times came to me, then vanished into thin air when I answered their questions and pointed them to the 16 Points of the Alt-Right. They don't want the public to see an intelligent and sophisticated political philosophy of nationalism that has ever-increasing global appeal, they want toothless hillbillies, psychotic racists, and retarded neo-Nazis to dance for them and bolster their false Narrative of "Hey Look, KKK Nazi Squirrel!"

Anyone who is determined to play dancing monkey for the mainstream media and provide support for the media's false Narrative is of less than zero utility to the Alt-Right, to the Alt-Lite, and to the Trump administration, no matter who they are, no matter what they have done. So get serious and stop dancing.

It's fair to criticize Mike, or Milo, or me for things we have done, for words we have written, and for public positions we have taken. It is fair to criticize those who are self-serving cowards and refuse to stand up for putative allies who are attacked unjustly. But it is simply stupid to expect us, or anyone else, to devote any time and effort to defending the willful stupidity of others. And to say that any of us are afraid of being attacked is even more ridiculous when a simple Google search will reveal hundreds of vituperative and defamatory attacks on any of us.

FFS, why play into the media's default script for those they would dearly love to destroy?


UPDATE: Mike Cernovich has posted his side of the story.

Labels: ,

269 Comments:

1 – 200 of 269 Newer› Newest»
Blogger VFM #7634 December 27, 2016 7:11 PM  

aka "How to Tell if You're an Alt-Right Gamma"

Blogger SirHamster December 27, 2016 7:19 PM  

Mike Cernovich just linked his side of the story on twitter, though it's not accessible from his website yet.

Anonymous karsten December 27, 2016 7:22 PM  

I see VD's point. I also realize that there is a history between BA and MC. Perhaps this entire situation cannot be read properly without that backstory, whatever it is.

However, if we go specifically by the one, specific BA tweet that broke the camel's back -- if we look at that one tweet in isolation, independent of anything that went before (and granted, that's a big "if") -- then I find the MC reaction indefensible. It's simply not that controversial.

Blogger pyrrhus December 27, 2016 7:23 PM  

Above all, don't contribute to what Sailer calls the KKKcrazy glue that the left needs to hold its warring factions together.

Blogger VD December 27, 2016 7:26 PM  

I find the MC reaction indefensible. It's simply not that controversial.

It's not about the level of controversy. It's about an employee's stupid immaturity putting the very purpose of the organization at pointless risk. They had already lost one venue.

Anonymous Laconophile December 27, 2016 7:27 PM  

Exactly, you can't just stomp on kittens while goose stepping and then expect to get a fair hearing from the public.

That's what happened, right? What are we talking about again?

Blogger weka December 27, 2016 7:27 PM  

I saw Baked Alaska's tweets on my stream -- the hurt and entitlement was totally unpleasant.

Public event means you have to ensure that you give zero fuel to your enemies.

And no, I'm not involved, would not be involved. It contains my least favourite four letter word. Ball.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 27, 2016 7:32 PM  

0% chance of talking sense with the fame whores, but perhaps a way can be found to make them useful

Blogger Whisker biscuit December 27, 2016 7:34 PM  

I can't read Mike's retort...so what did he say exactly?

Anonymous trev006 December 27, 2016 7:37 PM  

I like Cernovich/ Milo and will keep following them. I've never really heard of BA or understand why I should give a damn about him.

The MSM keeps talking about the "alt-right civil war." It's a decentralized movement, of course there is conflict. But a true war would be Vox vs Milo, or Bannon vs Fields (looool).

A war with BakedAlaska is gonna look more like NoTLK. Or Nacht di langen messer, whatever floats your boat.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 27, 2016 7:41 PM  

Excellent advice for the fame-inclined. This is the first I've heard of the particular squabble though.

Blogger VD December 27, 2016 7:42 PM  

It's simply not that controversial.

There is nothing wrong with the tweet itself, per se. But given the context, it was stupid, silly, and indefensible.

Blogger SirHamster December 27, 2016 7:42 PM  

karsten wrote:-- then I find the MC reaction indefensible. It's simply not that controversial.

I was originally neutral. I've liked MC's work and trust his instincts, but my Twitter feed mainly showed BA's accusations and painted a bad picture of him.

But knowing now that BA was an employee, I'm with Mike now. As boss, MC gets to call the shots. MC has a skin in the game that isn't obvious from seeing random tweets. BA fanning the flames of drama right now only vindicates MC's decision.

In hindsight, probably a bad idea for BA to pick a twitter fight with a media-savvy lawyer. BA's credibility to me is gone.

Anonymous Icicle December 27, 2016 7:42 PM  

It doesn't matter who you are, or what else you might have to say, you have rendered yourself completely vulnerable to a public neutering courtesy of the media.

As they say in the news business (let's co-opt the Left!) it's all about optics.

This is another reason anonymity is so important.

Anonymous Laconophile December 27, 2016 7:43 PM  

A real alt right civil war would never happen because the alt right agrees on everything worth fighting for. What you are seeing now is the failure of subversives to geld the alt right.

Blogger VD December 27, 2016 7:44 PM  

There is no Alt-Right civil war. The media desperately wants there to be one, but everyone from the Alt-White to the Alt-Lite is aware of that.

This minor issue doesn't even begin to qualify.

I like BA. I like Mike. It is between them, regardless of which party is in the right.

Anonymous trev006 December 27, 2016 7:46 PM  

I don't think I even care about the specific tweet. If you get yourself fired, then start trying to shout down your boss and his fans, either you are a social media mastermind or you're a Secret King. There are gonna be a lot of crappy employees of the alt-right who can't handle the pressure. I'll be unhappy if they go, but life moves on without you.

Blogger Lazarus December 27, 2016 7:49 PM  

If you don't have enough respect for yourself or your public image to put on your big boy pants and play by the observable rules, there is no reason for anyone else with anything at stake to maintain a connection to you.


Here is an example of how it is done:

Putin Criticizes Western Countries for Abandoning Christian Roots

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 27, 2016 7:49 PM  

One problem with the perma Jewsers is that they have been meta trolled by Jew Inc., and being trolled like that is inexcusable to the alt-right.

Anonymous Anonymous Bro December 27, 2016 7:54 PM  

You could apply some of this criticism to Trump, like when he imitated a reporter in a wheelchair. Also, all the shocking things he said about various people and groups of people (all of it justified and true of course).

Attention seeking tactics got him a presidency, and at this point shocking the delicate sensibilities of corporate media that will always be hostile to us has no downsides, only upsides.

The lesson of 2016, never apologize. If you disagree on factual matters (hi flat earthers!!!) then voice your disagreement, but you never disavow anybody who is remotely your ally against the globalist plantation, and you never apologize.

Anonymous trev006 December 27, 2016 7:55 PM  

@Laconophile Word. Everyone from the alt White to alt Lite is pumped about Trump winning. The sheer amount of damage done to leftist causes, combined with the benefit for whites, can make the alt White a more powerful political force. If they want to be.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora December 27, 2016 7:58 PM  

I watched Mike's Periscope on this last night. He said BA's mom is paying his rent and said BA is an unreliable drug addled loser. I know nothing about BA except a few tweets I saw months ago but he seemed friendly with these guys. He obviously has had trouble for a while so I'm not sure why they were working with and friendly with a guy they felt this negatively about. A sudden public about face is just weird.

I think a lot of alt lite people were united with more extreme elements for the sake of Trump and it's no surprise that this sort of thing is happening. Sam Hyde decided not to go to the Deploraball after he found out Richard Spencer was banned. They should just start their own ball. Not as competition but there's no reasons to be reliant on people who want nothing to do with you or your beliefs.

Blogger dienw December 27, 2016 8:09 PM  

Lazarus, Putin is right on the money.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 27, 2016 8:10 PM  

@22 Solaire Of Astora
I watched Mike's Periscope on this last night.
---

Yeah, that was an entirely different tune and tone that what I read in his website. He was basically character assassinating BA. And then he deleted that periscope.

There is more going on with others, and all the ones are mainly alt-light kind of flipping out.

When the mexicans for Trump are being blocked for being white supremecist, there is something stupid going on :P

Blogger Last Redoubt December 27, 2016 8:10 PM  

@7 Weka
I saw Baked Alaska's tweets on my stream -- the hurt and entitlement was totally unpleasant.

Yeah.

I knew who I considered in the right by the simple fact that Mikes only comment on twitter until the background story came out was "he's not with Deploraball, wish him well."

I've used damn near exactly that language when firing a client. "That last payment will cover the remainder of agreed outstanding invoices, we'll clear the rest, and I hope you find another good IT support person." It's the language of "I don't want drama, I'm done."

It's also the language, as Scott Adams has said, of either the prepared, smart liar or the honest, direct speaker. Until I heard more from Mike, I was going to give him credence for the second - especially given the degree of butthurt and bitching and the sheer venom of MC's detractors over this. Talk about obsessing over shit that's barely relevant to the topic at hand.

Frankly, even before this I never found BA funny or insightful enough to follow.

Then Mike released his update, with backing evidence that can, par for the course, have key parts validated independently.

Yah, there's a chunk of Alt-white that hasn't figured out why no-one else wants to obsess with them, or why they're losers. But insofar as I can see form both sides of the story - BA's full of shit.

Blogger David Seneder December 27, 2016 8:11 PM  

This started because of Singal kvetching about tweets to be quite honest

Blogger Were-Puppy December 27, 2016 8:12 PM  

Tis the season to be jolly, and we won, lets not let squabbles ruin the good times :P

Blogger VD December 27, 2016 8:17 PM  

Attention seeking tactics got him a presidency, and at this point shocking the delicate sensibilities of corporate media that will always be hostile to us has no downsides, only upsides.

You're not Trump. And if you engage in stupid attention-seeking antics, I won't defend you or have anything to do with you.

I won't disavow you. I won't attack you. I will simply ignore you. And if asked about you, I will say: "I have nothing to say about X."

I am no more interested in defending morons than I am in thought-policing them.

Blogger VD December 27, 2016 8:17 PM  

Fuck off.

Go ahead. Don't comment here again, overcaffeinated.

Anonymous Sciurus December 27, 2016 8:19 PM  

@20

No, Trump did not imitate the reporter in the wheelchair. Ann Coulter debunked this. And remember that Trump *did* apologize for the 'pussy-grabbing' tape. Trump is too smart to hamstring himself by clinging to inflexible rules about 'never do this' or 'always do that.'

Anonymous Freestater December 27, 2016 8:21 PM  

You can check out Baked Alaska's take on the " war " between him and Cernovich here. It's mildly interesting, but I still follow all these guys on twitter, could care less if someone is critical of the jews or not, if they support Trump they are good enough for me.

https://twitter.com/bakedalaska

Anonymous Cinderella's Royal Ball December 27, 2016 8:21 PM  

Why, it's like a dream. A wonderful dream come true.

Blogger JA Novac December 27, 2016 8:24 PM  

Prior restraint, even couched in pretty language, is exactly that and supposedly the opposite of what the New was supposed to encompass.

Blogger David Seneder December 27, 2016 8:25 PM  

Also Cerno seems to be backtracking on calling himself a militant right neo-fascist or the criticisms of Jewish Ethnocentrism in MAGA Mindset

https://streamable.com/nv7m

Blogger Quicksilver75 December 27, 2016 8:28 PM  

This seems like another instance of, "let's mouth off and feed into the Libmedia's fantasy stereotype of the populist right. It will be fun to hand our opponents a big club to beat us with...what a small price to pay for some attention, and to appear edgy..."

An irony about all those who obsess over the motivations of the segment of Ashkenazis who are paranoid about the perils of excessive white, Christian unifomity in western countries...Only the most subtle comments need be made on this issue. It is quite evident who is in the leadership of the open borders SPLC, ADL, the ACLU, and so forth. Simply talk plainly about opposing proponents of multiculturalism and diversity. Do so in a forceful but adult way. Don't overgeneralize and tar yourself with 1930s rhetorical style. We want only want change, immigration controls, sovereignty, freedom of speech, freedom of association. We do not advocate conquest, or to vilify an entire group based on religion or ethnicity.

Blogger VD December 27, 2016 8:30 PM  

Prior restraint, even couched in pretty language, is exactly that and supposedly the opposite of what the New was supposed to encompass.

New what? I've never said anything about a New Right or advocated communications incontinence. My position on the Alt-Right is very clearly laid out in the 16 Points.

Anonymous Icicle December 27, 2016 8:31 PM  

Prior restraint, even couched in pretty language,

Restraint in delivery, not in truth. You can throw them into conniption fits without giving them any Nazi ammo.

Remember that.

Blogger JA Novac December 27, 2016 8:38 PM  

To be clear, de platforming, is completely legit?

Blogger Kristophr December 27, 2016 8:38 PM  

JA Novac: He accepted money from MC to be a twitter publicist. MC owns his tweets for as long as he gets paid.

If he wanted to go do his own thing, he should have refunded MC, and then started his NaziLARPing. And not try to drag MC into it.

Blogger Samuel Nock December 27, 2016 8:39 PM  

Mike's default position is to disallow any discussion of the JQ. People like Baked Alaska, Jared Wyland and John Miller are not at all on the Nazi salute / Holocaust denying / LARPing end of the Alt Right. They are pointing out Jewish influence, with the anger and sarcasm that comes from being struck by the extent of that influence and the fact that they were blind to it for so long. Mike may have strategic reasons for not wanting to go there at all, but this does not strike me as a fight between mainstreamers and LARPers. It is a fight between a faction that does not want to address the JQ (for whatever reason, including a strategic reason) versus those who do.

Point 10 of the 16 Points: "The Alt Right is opposed to the rule or domination of any native ethnic group by another, particularly in the sovereign homelands of the dominated peoples. The Alt Right is opposed to any non-native ethnic group obtaining excessive influence in any society through nepotism, tribalism, or any other means."

BA and Jared Wyland are focusing on point 10. Mike is choosing (for now anyway) not to go there.

Blogger JA Novac December 27, 2016 8:40 PM  

Which nicely avoids the question

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 27, 2016 8:40 PM  

Soon after the election, when all eyes turned to the transition team, our SDL said, "Ignore everything that happens until Jan. 21st because it doesn't matter." Easier said than done, I guess. Look at this infighting. But this will pass soon.

Blogger VD December 27, 2016 8:43 PM  

To be clear, de platforming, is completely legit?

If it is your own platform? Of course! I have no problem with Twitter kicking me or anyone else off it. I have a problem with them pretending they don't do that when they do.

I don't hesitate to ban commenters here.

Anonymous Jay Will December 27, 2016 8:45 PM  

Cernovich twitter "brand" was in part built on controversy. His twitter history is a treasure trove of tweets that can be used against him.

Blogger Lazarus December 27, 2016 8:47 PM  

dienw wrote:Lazarus, Putin is right on the money.

Yah. I wanted to spread the link because it is being "dis-emphasized" in search engines.

Blogger VD December 27, 2016 8:47 PM  

It is a fight between a faction that does not want to address the JQ (for whatever reason, including a strategic reason) versus those who do.

It's not a fight. Go ahead and address whatever you want on your own site. I don't care. But Jeffro and I wouldn't hesitate to kick out a blogger who decided to address anything like that on the CH blog because that's well outside its range of topics and every blogger there knows it.

Anonymous Icicle December 27, 2016 8:48 PM  

I can't wait till we finally get to the point where it is "Nazis? Who cares about Nazis?" Like when you ask someone about some battle from the 1800s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DueSvcjn810
And the UN, un-nazied the world, FOREVER.

Blogger JA Novac December 27, 2016 8:48 PM  

Please do, message sent, on the wrong side of this no matter how it turns out

Blogger Mountain Man December 27, 2016 8:49 PM  

"A real alt right civil war would never happen because the alt right agrees on everything worth fighting for."

It will only happen if men start acting like valley girls. Going onto each and every comment board and gossiping worse than females.
We all know who the regular suspects are.

Blogger Lazarus December 27, 2016 8:51 PM  

Anonymous Bro wrote:Attention seeking tactics got him a presidency, and at this point shocking the delicate sensibilities of corporate media that will always be hostile to us has no downsides, only upsides.

That is what is referred to as "an election campaign". This is done to acquire power. After that, one must consolidate and wisely use this power to accomplish one's goals. One does not need to attract attention with bombast at this stage.

Anonymous Taco Town December 27, 2016 8:55 PM  

The Jews as a whole are a part of the enemy left. They are not THE part of the enemy left. Putting them on that pedestal gives them credit I don't think they deserve, misses the big picture that the enemy left is bigger than the Jews, and is indicative of shoddy thinking.

Anonymous Scintan December 27, 2016 9:00 PM  

Mountain Man wrote:"A real alt right civil war would never happen because the alt right agrees on everything worth fighting for."

It will only happen if men start acting like valley girls. Going onto each and every comment board and gossiping worse than females.

We all know who the regular suspects are.



If it happens, it will happen for any number of possible reasons, because people are people, and sometimes shit happens when people are in contact.

Blogger Wrangler December 27, 2016 9:07 PM  

Thanks VD for your take. Last night was troubling. I've read you since 2001 on WND and trust you (not always agree) 100% and Roosh like 95%. Glad to hear from both of you today.

After reading Mike's side, seems like he had to do it. Mike handled this like shit tho. Guess he isn't used to being in charge of people. You can't give some people 2d/3d chances or the resulting crash will just be bigger. If you think you MIGHT have to fire someone, do it right away.

Anonymous LastRedoubt December 27, 2016 9:11 PM  

@51 taco town

Well put.

Otherwise we'd only have one or two points rather than 16

Blogger red clock December 27, 2016 9:15 PM  

Thanks for putting this into words so clearly. I am tired of ideas I believe in being tainted by idiots like Andrew Anglin and other careless idiots who make endless excuses for being loudmouth, crude, idiotic.

In general, If you want your ideas to gain influence, you must represent them well, especially dissident ideas which already have significant opposition. No need to add personal immature baggage to them.

Nationalism especially is about being selective and filtering out the bad. Allowing (and encouraging) trashy rhetoric and people only makes it grow. NO.

(Not talking about the Cernovich-BakedAlaska stuff but alt-right in general)

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 9:18 PM  

This all started with BA asking the JQ.

The JQ is legitimate.

I understand that there is a certain decorum when it comes to the established overton window, but it seems that wanting to not disturb that equilibrium is more idealistic than being loyal to a legitimate question.

The overton window is as far to the left as it probably ever been. Even the softer points of the alt-right will not gain resonance thought the current position of the window.

As scary as it seems, asking the JQ does help drag the window to the right where we can fit tenets of nationalism, e.g., protectionism and a non-interventionist foreign policy.

Deal with it.

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 9:20 PM  

Oh and by the standards of decorum laid out above, Milo's entire career should be hidden in the pizzagate dungeons.

Anonymous Taco Town December 27, 2016 9:23 PM  

The question is whether the issue here is the JQ or being a dumbass. I've got no issue with the JQ, but don't be a dumbass.

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 9:23 PM  

@55

"I am tired of ideas I believe in being tainted by idiots like Andrew Anglin and other careless idiots who make endless excuses for being loudmouth, crude, idiotic."

I assume you include Milo in that assessment.

Blogger ZhukovG December 27, 2016 9:25 PM  

Looks like a legitimate dismissal. I would have done the same in Mike's shoes. I see no controversy, just some possible Gamma butthurt.

Blogger Alfred Genesson December 27, 2016 9:26 PM  

Vox, thanks for your perspective on this, and the link to Mike's side of the story. The apparent crowd going after Mike and Milo looked a bit too coordinated last night, and I was wondering about the possibilities of frame/false narrative.

Anonymous @GaltReport December 27, 2016 9:36 PM  

Very well on point. BTW, "SJWs Always Lie" & "Cuckservative" are great books. Thank you. Just bought copies for a couple friends.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros December 27, 2016 9:38 PM  

Alfred Genesson wrote:The apparent crowd going after Mike and Milo looked a bit too coordinated last night, and I was wondering about the possibilities of frame/false narrative.

Anglin wrote something on the subject. There will always be an angry Twitter mob when that happens. It's kind of his niche.

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 9:42 PM  

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Anonymous Ron speaks December 27, 2016 9:46 PM  

Milo is a degenerate sodomite. He has nothing of value to contribute. His presence alone makes the venue and the movement a laughing-stock.

Anonymous exterminator17 December 27, 2016 9:47 PM  

There is no Alt-Right civil war. The media desperately wants there to be one... Vox Day

Remember, the MSM/SJW/community organizer business plan is "Lets you and him fight!"

Anonymous MongoJimmy December 27, 2016 9:52 PM  

@63 I believe AA took down the article.

@30 "Buddhas do not observe Precepts".

Anonymous Taco Town December 27, 2016 9:52 PM  

Some of the comments in this thread have me wondering if the alt-right and such going forward is going to be based in reality or if it's going to turn into another false religion, no better than the previous ones.

People need to be careful about wrapping their identity to tightly to abstract concepts. It's this sort of thing that's the driving force behind all the trans bullshit. Let's not make the same mistake.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume December 27, 2016 9:55 PM  

@60

I was thinking the same thing. Take all the Alt-Right, Lite and White angles out of it and it's little more than an object lesson in VD's Gamma-"Secret King" writings. Especially if you note the similarities with employing Gammas in your projects.


But on the other hand, I'm inclined to wonder if there is something to Alfred Genneson's wondering about a Frameing going on: Exhibit A) Just look at all of the paid trolls coming out of the woodwork for this one.

Those guys are the Interwebz equivalent of AA flak. Must be over or near an important target. Or operation...

Anonymous Brick Hardslab December 27, 2016 9:57 PM  

Since I don't read MC's site I don't understand the vitriol directed at Mike for this. What is going on?

Blogger Lazarus December 27, 2016 9:57 PM  

l' Américain wrote:Oh and by the standards of decorum laid out above, Milo's entire career should be hidden in the pizzagate dungeons.

At least he has a career. A fabulous, articulate, influential career.

And you have...........?

Anonymous SevenCrimes December 27, 2016 9:59 PM  

I didn't get in the middle of the Cernovich/Baked Alaska thing, but Bill Mitchell, another "Deploraball" guest, has been a nonstop font of leftist virtue-signalling bullshit on twitter today.

Blogger Achilles December 27, 2016 9:59 PM  

I haven't followed this closely enough, but my two cents:

That's a dangerous line. If we're going to exclude anyone the media calls a Nazi racist monster you're on that list Vox. Maybe Cernovich gets tired of defending Vox Day and gives you the Bircher treatment. Isn't excluding people for convenience or political gain exactly what the GOP did until they represented no one?

Worse, if only Nazis are the ones seen fighting White genocide you're going to make a lot of Nazis.

And it also makes my blood curdle when a leaderless movement starts gaining self-proclaimed gatekeepers.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 27, 2016 9:59 PM  

Taco Town wrote:Some of the comments in this thread have me wondering if the alt-right and such going forward is going to be based in reality or if it's going to turn into another false religion, no better than the previous ones.

People need to be careful about wrapping their identity to tightly to abstract concepts. It's this sort of thing that's the driving force behind all the trans bullshit. Let's not make the same mistake.


What you're asking is impossible. There are many people on the alt-right who won't say "Merry Christmas" along with Trump unless it's framed as a pagan thing.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros December 27, 2016 10:00 PM  

MongoJimmy wrote:@63 I believe AA took down the article.

Nope, still up.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 27, 2016 10:05 PM  

I view this incontinence as a sign that the alt-white needs to take the black pill: most white people are normies and always will be.

Anonymous BBGKB December 27, 2016 10:05 PM  

If you want to defecate all over yourself in the name of principle, courage, the

Make sure you only do it in NYC or San Fran who both decriminalized taking dumps in public.

they want toothless hillbillies, psychotic racists, and retarded neo-Nazis to dance for them and bolster their false Narrative of "Hey Look, KKK Nazi Squirrel!"

Bravo was really pissed when they found out people were watching their hillbilly duck show because it was the only show on TV that showed a Christian family & positive (not HIV) male role models.

don't contribute to what Sailer calls the KKKcrazy glue that the left needs to hold its warring factions together

They have to hire actors to play "Interviewed KKK members" in documentaries. http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/12/24/ae-drops-escaping-kkk-documentary-after-learning-subjects-were-paid/95832966/

misses the big picture that the enemy left is bigger than the Jews, and is indicative of shoddy thinking.

(((Soros))) paid jewish lesbian gatekeepers push the narrative in many communities. Don't fight the cannon fodder go for the controller units.

I assume you include Milo in that assessment. Milo is just high maintenance

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 10:06 PM  

@71

Decency and faith in Christ.

Blogger Sevron December 27, 2016 10:06 PM  

"It just seems"

Guess what that's a tell for, newfriend?

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 27, 2016 10:09 PM  

The thing about the black pill is...it won't kill you. You can even keep winning and enjoy it. But! It means you have to stop feeding on your own supply, use your intelligence, and realize that your attraction to Hugo Boss is not normal.

Blogger Unknown December 27, 2016 10:09 PM  

That's not true at all. Mike in his since deleted periscope, made many personal insults to BA, then told everyone his credit score etc.
Not to mention Mike has said some of the same things about white genocide etc and disavows now that there is money on the line. Another shapiro

Blogger Nate December 27, 2016 10:11 PM  

this is by no means defeatist... as the stages are still extremely early. But as one who helped create the Southern Party.. and one who watched it fall apart in stupid myopic in-fighting...

Well this feels like de javu all over again.

How about we don't do that boys?

Anonymous Taco Town December 27, 2016 10:14 PM  

@74 I said too tightly, though I left out the second o for some reason. There is a line beyond which lies being ridiculous. I'm not saying don't, I'm saying don't cross the line into stupidity.

@76 This goes back to what I said in @51. I am not against the JQ, I think it is pertinent. I think it is also being taken to quasi-hysteria levels, which I think is ridiculous and self defeating, for reasons I stated in @51. I'm not a close follower of Mike, but as I look at this drama, I see the issue as not being JQ but stupidity. BA was/is being stupid. He's being stupid in some part about the JQ, but what's important here is the stupidity, not the JQ. The JQ isn't some sacred dogma that has to be defended against any criticism, or so sacred that we need to defend a gamma dumbass being a gamma dumbass in its name.

Blogger Thanks, J. December 27, 2016 10:15 PM  

I'm not sure what the Alt Light has to offer other than a rebranding of conservativism and libertarianism. I'm not meaning to jew them down. I know they're savvy media people, which IS important to get sh*t done.

Anonymous BBGKB December 27, 2016 10:18 PM  

The BA JQ was about the gay jews who harassed TRUMP's daughter on a plane, about if they behaved that badly because of being gay or jewish. Obviously it was exponential jewish to the gay power. NAFALT IKAGO

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 10:28 PM  

@83

I dont see how you can overstate the control, or at least influence, the the Jews have over the dealings of this country.

However, BA did not put out a twitter rant or an essay, a la Macdonald. He put out a satirical tweet that is so popular and even mainstream that it is a meme.

Exactly, how was BA behaving stupidly? Because it seems that people ( (((Mike))) ) are just upset that he brought it up.

I cannot believe that there are thought police in the alt-right, but I will happily abandon that sentiment if you tell me how BA acted stupidly.

Anonymous Taco Town December 27, 2016 10:33 PM  

@86 the Jews are a small minority that has an inordinate amount of power and responsibility for the mess the left has inflicted on us. You are focusing too much on their inordinate amount of power and too little on that they are a tiny minority. They can only have the power they have because other people agree with them, and to focus too much on the Jews means you are ignoring the vastly greater number of non-Jewish leftists.

As for BA I am calling it gamma stupidity because he has been acting like a little crybaby over this.

Blogger ZhukovG December 27, 2016 10:36 PM  

@ l' Américain, BA was an insubordinate employee and got fired. This is precisely what Mike needed to do. In fact, I have to question Mike's vetting process, since he should never have allowed someone of BA's unreliable temperament into his organization to begin with.

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 10:38 PM  

@87

The JQ is complicated and is inappropriate to discuss in a comment section. I tend to think that their minority status is the proof or indication that they are the wizards behind the curtain. Yea, there are a lot of leftists, but the problem is cultural Marxism and it is the Jews who seem to be the vanguard of that ideology and also its financiers.

And I'll concede on the BA point. I did just look at how this whole spat got started and not how it progressed.

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 10:42 PM  

@88

I am not on Twitter and am unfamiliar with BA, so I'll admit I have been commenting while being uninformed.

However, I have been responding mostly to the idea that Vox expressed, namely the best way to force the alt-right into the mainstream.

My point is that somethings are just too important to be cautious with. The JQ is one of those things along with race realism.

These things have so much gravitas that the only reasonable way to move forward, to me, is to just say it. No need to be tactical; strategic, but not tactical.

Anonymous roughcoat December 27, 2016 10:46 PM  

I have to point out that Baked Alaska was acting like a "whiny bitch" because Mike was actively slagging the hell out of him. It's not like Mike just fired/separated from BA and stopped talking, then BA freaked out completely out of proportion to the offense. There was substantial personal provocation involved, almost all of which has been memory-holed by Mike. I saw it happening in real time last night on Twitter.

Now Baked Alaska is way off the rails, frankly, and while I was fine with him defending himself at first he's now damaging causes I care about with his lashing out at Mike. I will be happy when that stops.

Blogger ZhukovG December 27, 2016 10:55 PM  

@ l' Américain, Your are correct that some things are very important. However these often call for caution. Always strike an enemy at his weakness not at his strength. Constantly talking about the JQ is the equivalent of mounting a Banzai charge against entrenched, machine gun armed US Marines.

Do not strike at the Jew, strike at the Globalist. You will deal with our enemies among the former by default, while robbing them of their greatest defenses.

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 10:59 PM  

@92

Fair point. I much agree.

I do think however that one day the Jew will have to be named, but I will concede that it is not today.

Anonymous Scintan December 27, 2016 11:09 PM  

Nate wrote:this is by no means defeatist... as the stages are still extremely early. But as one who helped create the Southern Party.. and one who watched it fall apart in stupid myopic in-fighting...

Well this feels like de javu all over again.

How about we don't do that boys?


One downside of having a movement without specific leaders is that any random asshole can wreak havoc, and any random asshole can serve as either a savior or a destroyer.

Anonymous Icicle December 27, 2016 11:10 PM  

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/12/24/ae-drops-escaping-kkk-documentary-after-learning-subjects-were-paid/95832966/

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. When is the last time the KKK did something interesting, and not just on TV? Meanwhile MS-13 is streaming across the border.

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric December 27, 2016 11:11 PM  

The only way to break the lock of the PC thought police is to have critical mass of people who don't care what they call you, though.

Sure, sure... you don't want to be too early with that, or you'll take too much personal flak and not get where you need to be. But at the same time, if we don't at some point say that we can say and do these things and not care that they're going to point and shriek, they will never stop pointing and shrieking, because it works.

Blogger bob kek mando ( NABTY ) December 27, 2016 11:11 PM  

7. weka December 27, 2016 7:27 PM
It contains my least favourite four letter word. Ball.



you aren't simply an uncultured heathen, you've betrayed your ANZAC brethren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3tqIukBKg

Anonymous Sploosh December 27, 2016 11:15 PM  

As someone "going after" mike last night and someone who has met him personally, there was nothing coordinated about that last night. Bad optics for everyone involved.

but after speaking with mike and reading this piece, it makes perfect sense. But the questioning was righteous and i still have questions.

but i know see that isn't what i have to learn from this. I don't need the answers to all my questions.

what this has shown me is that i am asking the wrong ones.

Blogger l' Américain December 27, 2016 11:16 PM  

Ok, I have posted enough about this and I ussualy do care about online squabbles, but this one involved my favorite (((person))).

I clicked on (((Mikes))) side of the story link. There is no comment section.

(((Mike))) contradicts himself throughout that article, e.g., hatred = toxic mindset (I'll grant him this, he is an excellent businessman).

Im calling kangaroo court. (((Mike))) is a shill and is trying to convince his loyal/whore followers of his own cognitive dissonance. He only cares about money and status, which is admissable and something that we, certainly myself, are all guilty of from time to time.

However, if you are trying to tell me that (((Mike))) is a thought leader and a true hero, I will spit in your lying faggy face.

Blogger mgh December 27, 2016 11:18 PM  

Should I be concerned that Mike hired this fool? Does this reflect badly on his judgment or was this really the first time BA acted up?

Blogger Bosefus December 27, 2016 11:27 PM  

Now trending....

Hello Clevland...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Fc_5slG_Q

Import... export... rinse and repeat...

See what happens...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk

Christ marches on.

Get hip to the trip.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 27, 2016 11:28 PM  

He was happy to take the Jewgold. If he thinks Jews have too much influence, why is he helping a Jew gain influence? If he thinks that the ethnicity is the determining factor, why did he associate in the first place. If he is so disgusted by fags, why did he take a job with one?
BakedAlaska rather obviously has no integrity.
Honest to God, if you have the need to denounce a particular group, you should not make a habit of flacking for them.

Blogger CynicalMan December 27, 2016 11:29 PM  

Though a battle has been won the war is far from over. Do not believe that your enemy is down for the count. Be careful not to extend your battle lines beyond what you can reasonably hold while reprovisioning for the next battle. Do not presume that if you give the enemy ammunition that they won't use it against you.

Blogger Bosefus December 27, 2016 11:32 PM  

You are the thought police... your house is left unto you desolate... For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Like... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poDGP5b3wws

Blogger The Deuce December 27, 2016 11:33 PM  

Frankly, Mike and Milo are in the wrong here. This episode has really changed my view of both.

Nothing Alaska said was any more extreme or damaging than things Mike himself has said, and Mike didn't just criticize him for it. He outright disavowed him and cut him off, then started slandering him all over Twitter and Periscope with wild accusations, then deleted most of it when most people watching saw it as a meltdown on his part. Alaska didn't play "the media's dancing monkey" like Richard Spencer did. He expressed opinions which Mike apparently has decided he cannot be associated with any longer (despite expressing them himself not long ago before he dishonestly started claiming to have never been alt-right), since he's decided that media attention to it could hurt his now-larger "brand."

For Milo's part, the email that Alaska published is revealing. He's acted like a complete primadonna there, and refused to come to the party unless he could headline it, because he's "a star" and demands "results." God forbid he show up out of gratitude to some of the people who've helped get him to where he is. He then threatened Alaska when Alaska posted the email. I have no problem with people engaging in self-promotion while providing value to others. I do have a problem when they appear to be PURELY in it for themselves, and exhibit contempt and disregard for their supporters.

And I believe there's more to this story than meets the eye too. There have been rumblings of discontent between Alaska an Milo for a few weeks. Alaska mentioned a little bit ago that one of Milo's entourage (probably his drug mule Slater) has been prank calling and generally harassing him, though he avoided lashing out at Milo personally at the time. The timing here, where Mike announced Milo as a guest IMMEDIATELY after booting Alaska suggests that it was Milo who wanted Alaska out as a condition of gracing everyone with his presence, and Mike then contrived the excuse he needed to make it happen. Whether or not that's true, the self-absorption and disloyalty exhibited by both have been pretty eye-opening. They have not handled fame well.

Blogger Bosefus December 27, 2016 11:38 PM  

Did you ever see a robin weep
When leaves begin to die?
Like me, he's lost the will to live
I'm so lonesome I could cry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WXYjm74WFI

You'll walk the floors...

Anonymous Ronn comments December 27, 2016 11:41 PM  

According to Hunter Wallace, Milo is a confirmed pedophile.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2016/12/28/milos-deploraball/

Blogger Bosefus December 27, 2016 11:42 PM  

Your cheatin heart will tell on you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4LCoh0VGQ

The big dog is movin in skinny dog...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lza3NVH6Ig

ease it on over.

Blogger Bosefus December 27, 2016 11:48 PM  

Trump is showing a new dance that han't been done... set the woods on fire...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3hzYRVAkUs

Blogger Bosefus December 27, 2016 11:52 PM  

I'm a long gone daddy... who needs you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtpe6_2nCts

I remeber when things were sweet... but I don't need you now.

Blogger Bosefus December 28, 2016 12:01 AM  

Vox fell in love with an indian over in the antiuqe store...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FY7RWJAtJQ

he always wore his Sunday feathers
And carried his old black hawk

Standin' there, don't never show a sign
'Cause his heart is made of knotty pine.

Ok, I had to twist the tale maybe.

Hey Joe... where you goin go?

Blogger tim December 28, 2016 12:02 AM  

Particular strategy?

Blogger Bosefus December 28, 2016 12:04 AM  

There goes another boy down the lost hiway... Vox made me roll down that lost hiway...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCgicPdsxxg

lol... that would be the day!

Anonymous Taco Town December 28, 2016 12:04 AM  

And now the drama comes here lol

Blogger Bosefus December 28, 2016 12:07 AM  

Cernovitch mindset... don't let the Lord in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtolv9kM1qk

Anonymous Clark Sebastian December 28, 2016 12:11 AM  

You write this Vox from a perspective of wanting to optimize the trajectory of the alt-right and help it come to power. The issue is that many question the sincerity of Cernovich and Milo, and so doubt that this purging mentality is really about wanting to make it easier for us to come to power.

The truth of the matter here is that any movement that Cernovich and Milo did manage to push into the mainstream would be doomed from the beginning because they are willfully blind on the race issue and totally silent on the Jewish question. These two issues are the main issues, and so any cucking on these issues basically amounts to total surrender.

Milo is a basic bitch cuckservative really. Sure, he's anti SJW and anti Islam, but he's a race creationist, and doesn't care if whites become a minority as long as "Western values" are codified into law. This is pure cuckservatism. Any movement that Milo was spear heading and managed to push into the mainstream would be doomed from the beginning because it would have at its core these obvious falsehoods and absurdities.

What Milo and Cernovich offer is cuckservatism with frog memes. That's all, and that's not what is needed.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 28, 2016 12:12 AM  

Sevron wrote:"It just seems"

Guess what that's a tell for, newfriend?


Extraverted intuition in MBTI, the preferred function of ENTPs and ENFPs (and secondary for INTPs and INFPs). Noting this for personal reference.

Blogger Doom December 28, 2016 12:12 AM  

I was wondering about that. No, yeah, I get it. I wasn't getting into it, one way or the other, just heard the splashing, but didn't see who did what, when, or know why. Cool.

Oh, right, and yeah... I'll take note. I get it. Sometimes I am what I am though. I'm trying to clean up. Not really for the cameras or prime time, just... for God's sake, I suppose.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 28, 2016 12:16 AM  

I blame the Holocene for all of this. Agricultural society can't produce the calories and fatty protein necessary to sustain large brains.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros December 28, 2016 12:19 AM  

Lol. The Holocene obviously never happened.
But it will.

Blogger bb December 28, 2016 12:28 AM  

Looks like the purity tests are starting up again. The JQ and all the associated race questions will be answered in due time. Right now, focus on not killing each to other to prove the purity of the cause.

About the drama we have, Mike screwed up the handling of the situation. He did give BA a way out of the situation and he lost his cool. BA went full gamma and has some personal issues getting in his way.

Blogger maniacprovost December 28, 2016 12:33 AM  

How about this, can we stop calling it the Jewish Question? It's fine to use provocative 1930s phrasing to make a point to people who are informed enough to understand it.
..but if you want America to have a national discussion about Jewish privilege.. you need to use current terminology.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 28, 2016 12:35 AM  

Ezekiel Cassandros wrote:Lol. The Holocene obviously never happened.

But it will.


Lol, dammit I should have seen that one.

Blogger bob kek mando ( NABTY ) December 28, 2016 12:38 AM  

44. Jay Will December 27, 2016 8:45 PM
Cernovich twitter "brand" was in part built on controversy. His twitter history is a treasure trove of tweets that can be used against him.


there is a chess concept known as 'tempo'.

there is a PROPER time and place to take certain actions. taking a proper action at the WRONG time can be greatly injurious to yourself.

Trump won the election, he's building his team but he DOES NOT YET have any actual power.

in Cernovich's case, he's already had one venue cancel on him. he doesn't need more drama *right now*.

i'm the guy who advocates "Always Be Trolling" ... surely the idea of tactical moderation is not that difficult to grasp?

Blogger maniacprovost December 28, 2016 12:40 AM  

Also... Milo is not an Alt-Right leader. He is a sympathetic journalist. It's perfectly appropriate to invite him to an Alt-Right event if needed, but complaining about him damaging the movement is a non sequitur.

Also... Cernovich is a self help guru. He's trying to be a social media journalist, and he wants to be part of some kind of right wing zeitgeist... he's not a philosopher. He's not a UHIQ thought leader. Don't expect him to tackle tough questions by himself. Don't expect him to be the one pushing the Overton window.

Anonymous User December 28, 2016 12:41 AM  

Cernovich did not cover himself in glory.

He's reduced himself to selling dreams to gammas who don't totally lack self-awareness. That's not entirely without merit, but it's an ugly way to make a living and not really worthy of respect.

I understand you're bound to stick with him due to reciprocity and shared enterprise, but he is tarnishing his brand and by extension yours. No concern though, the giants on the Castalia imprint should keep its halo shiny for a long time.

Anonymous Rollory December 28, 2016 12:43 AM  

On the one hand, as an employee one has certain responsibilites to the employer.

On the other hand, Cernovich has really damaged himself with how he's handled this whole thing. He's acting like he thinks he has the power to control or define what people say and think. That's precisely the attitude that has been creating the alt-right (in opposition to it) for more than a decade. Cernovich didn't create this. He joined it, rather late in the game, and now he has declared himself opposed to certain basic ideas within it. Maybe he thinks his own brand is strong enough to survive separately. I'm not going to put any money on that.

On the gripping hand, the first rule of leadership is never to give an order you know will not be obeyed. A leader needs to know his men. Cernovich should have known what BA was likely to do or say - it doesn't seem like it's terribly out of the ordinary - and asking him, depending on him, to do something radically out of his (BA's) normal pattern - not only that, but something that BA would predictably be opposed to doing in the first place - is just a way for Cernovich to set himself up for trouble.

The only justifiable concern in this is the risk of having the event cancelled on a whim and having the money gone into preparing for it be wasted. Knowing that risk from the start, and knowing the types of people one finds in the alt-right, this had a high probability of realizing the risk right from the start. I wonder why Cernovich would have made that sort of bet.

I have my disagreements with Jim MacDonald but "No Enemies to the Right" is a sound principle.

Anonymous CNN Reporter December 28, 2016 12:45 AM  

Do you disavow Cernovich and that for which he stands?

Anonymous User December 28, 2016 12:48 AM  

Here's a simple hypothesis: the entryist who called Spencer a shilling federal stooge is in fact a projecting entryist SJW.

Anonymous Afterthought December 28, 2016 12:49 AM  

The "alt right" brand is toxic; not only has it been tarnished by violent rhetoric, Nazi rheotric, and anti-God rhetoric; the type of people attracted to the above know they can get their "fix" of chaos at any time by scuttling the efforts of the Builders.

Not that it is such a big loss, we are far better off with ordered liberty than fascism; normal people might be interested in a well-argued 14, but not in 88.

Anonymous Icicle December 28, 2016 12:59 AM  

Concern trolls are concerned.

Blogger Thucydides December 28, 2016 1:15 AM  

This may be a bit OT, but we should not forget there are real National Socialists out there. The Fake News media knows and understands this, but refuses to point out where real National Socialism exists in favour of using the cartoon Nazis under their beds to smear people they don't like.

Just as one example, Canadians in Quebec have elected and openly supported the "Bloc Quebecois" and Perti Quebecois" on the national and provincial stages respectively from the 1980's until 2011, and these parties and organizations still exist. They are as rabidly nationalist as the *Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei * and equally open about using the power of the State to forcibly redistribute wealth to the "pure lain" Quebecois.

They didn't go for Hugo Boss uniforms and failed to find truly charismatic leaders and electrifying speakers, but were Nazis in every other respect (including advocating ethnic cleansing), but not a peep from the Canadian media.

And that Obama fellow's positions on a lot of things read straight out of the Fascist Corporate State, but it seems odd the NYT, CNN etc. missed that (who did they call Fascist again? Anyone?)

I always make a point of correcting people who pull the Fascist/Nazi card, and hope, in time to find quick, witty and rhetorical ways to turn that back on the Progs, leftists and SJWs.

Anonymous Anonymous December 28, 2016 1:18 AM  

@VD what about cernovich's periscope he deleted, where he did a character asassination on @bakedalaska? isn't that relevant?

Blogger Quicksilver75 December 28, 2016 1:29 AM  

Clark Sebastian wrote:You write this Vox from a perspective of wanting to optimize the trajectory of the alt-right and help it come to power. The issue is that many question the sincerity of Cernovich and Milo, and so doubt that this purging mentality is really about wanting to make it easier for us to come to power.

The truth of the matter here is that any movement that Cernovich and Milo did manage to push into the mainstream would be doomed from the beginning because they are willfully blind on the race issue and totally silent on the Jewish question. These two issues are the main issues, and so any cucking on these issues basically amounts to total surrender.

Milo is a basic bitch cuckservative really. Sure, he's anti SJW and anti Islam, but he's a race creationist, and doesn't care if whites become a minority as long as "Western values" are codified into law. This is pure cuckservatism. Any movement that Milo was spear heading and managed to push into the mainstream would be doomed from the beginning because it would have at its core these obvious falsehoods and absurdities.

What Milo and Cernovich offer is cuckservatism with frog memes. That's all, and that's not what is needed.


This is a gross exaggeration. While I cannot speak for much of Milo's work (other than about 1 hr of youtube content), Mike is clearly not a cuck, at least he was well to the right of all 20 GOP primary candidates, even slightly to the right of Trump.
He has spoken on several occasions (on periscope) about the plight of white South Africans, and about the need for immigration controls, and has repeatedly denounced the anti-white Libmedia. His last book was explicitly nationalist too. Whether he moves left in the months ahead is another matter. As per the "Jewish Question" you make it sound binary, like we all need to upgrade our operating systems, or switch to a different browser to be able to see the real world. It is not a binary Q. Ashkenazi voting preferences, and over representation in the Libmedia has been known for decades. The proper reponse is to specifically challenge & rebut the narrative on a case by case basis. If you start promoting a meme that because of the JQ resistance is futile, you just end up sounding like a paranoid idiot. Many prominent Jewish activists have been fighting for patriot immigration controls for decades & are our staunch allies. I could on, but a lot of this is a moot point. It should be obvious to adults.

Blogger Francis The Pope December 28, 2016 1:29 AM  

The one camp wants people to focus on Muslims and the other on jews. Nobody here can deny the fact that those that want jews on their side to boost their movements support are doing it for their population size. It is clearly to gain financial and media support, however mentioning jews in media and finance is a banned topic, this is an absolutely ridiculous position to hold. Those that want to ban all talk of the jews are the best proof that the JQ is real issue.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 1:47 AM  

@61 Alfred Genesson
Vox, thanks for your perspective on this, and the link to Mike's side of the story. The apparent crowd going after Mike and Milo looked a bit too coordinated last night, and I was wondering about the possibilities of frame/false narrative.
---

I think the alt-white was taking advantage of the story about the idiot professor who called for white genocide. It was a huge story among all the various people, not just the alt white.

And last night Mike was not this reasonable fellow from this written article. He did a periscope that was ridiculous, which he promptly deleted. He really angered a lot of more people with that. There is plenty of blame to go around in what was happening last night.

And there were plenty of other people calling for them both to calm down.

These guys are too stressed out for the holidays

Blogger tim December 28, 2016 1:48 AM  

Particular strategy?

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor December 28, 2016 1:49 AM  

An honorable employee or contractor does what the boss says. Unless the boss is asking you to do something unacceptable, at which point you openly and directly refuse. If given the opportunity, you explain yourself.

I've had to bite my tongue and do things I thought were stupid because that's what my boss or my client wanted more times than I can remember. Most of those times I was right, but sometimes I was spectacularly wrong. But in each case someone else was taking the risk, and it's only right that the risk takers should call the shots.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 1:49 AM  

@64 l' Américain


For such a jumpy guy, mike should have picked a field/topic less turbulent. I dont see (((mike))) going much farther with the alt-right, but then again, I am a little unsure whether or not he still considers himself apart of it.
---

I don't know a lot about him, but have watched maybe 10 periscopes over the last couple of months. He said he was not alt right during something richard spencer did.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 1:50 AM  

@65 Ron speaks
Milo is a degenerate sodomite. He has nothing of value to contribute. His presence alone makes the venue and the movement a laughing-stock.
---

He always says he is not alt right.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 1:53 AM  

@72 SevenCrimes

I didn't get in the middle of the Cernovich/Baked Alaska thing, but Bill Mitchell, another "Deploraball" guest, has been a nonstop font of leftist virtue-signalling bullshit on twitter today.
---

Yeah man, that one has me more wound up than the Cernovich/BA thing by far. He's gone crazy virtue signalling. I found it amusing it reminded me of VD because he blocked the guy Mexicans for Trump during his angry anti- white supremacist moments :P

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 1:58 AM  

@78 BBGKB
I assume you include Milo in that assessment. Milo is just high maintenance
---

A high maintenance trans-American!

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 2:05 AM  

@91 roughcoat
There was substantial personal provocation involved, almost all of which has been memory-holed by Mike. I saw it happening in real time last night on Twitter
---

Yeah, even though Mike deleted that, a lot of people saw it. It was not flattering for him.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 2:13 AM  

@112 bb
About the drama we have, Mike screwed up the handling of the situation. He did give BA a way out of the situation and he lost his cool. BA went full gamma and has some personal issues getting in his way.
---

That is a good summary - no winners there. I don't think it's as important as much as demoralizing to some of their followers.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable December 28, 2016 2:15 AM  

Look. A big part of this Culture War is pro- vs. anti-thought-policing, and we're on the anti- side. So our side is more comfortable with disagreement, and the rabbit media is literally incapable of comprehending how that's a strength.

I'm not talking about any particular disagreement. My point is that there will always be disagreements, and the rabbit media will always think that we're in disarray or having a civil war or whatever.

Praise publicly, criticize privately, and ignore the rabbit narratives.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 2:15 AM  

@117 User

I understand you're bound to stick with him due to reciprocity and shared enterprise, but he is tarnishing his brand and by extension yours. No concern though, the giants on the Castalia imprint should keep its halo shiny for a long time.
---
Speaking of, i've got some money and I'm going to buy some books. I think I'll go with the 9 laws after last night :P Ivan NEVER loses his cool

Blogger Were-Puppy December 28, 2016 2:18 AM  

@122 Icicle
Concern trolls are concerned.
---

Dammit, I need to go to bed. I almost fell for the concern :P

Anonymous Jack Amok December 28, 2016 2:30 AM  

Prior restraint - of yourself - is also known as...

...having self control.
...being mature.
...having a long time preference.
...being responsible.
...thinking for speaking

We all have emotional responses, we all have ideas of questionable virtue, we all, at least us non-conformists, have ideas that are challenges for the mainstream to hear, meaning they are challenging for us to present in ways that won't get ridiculed, belittled and ignored.

If you blow it, if you don't use prior restraint on your own ideas and blurt out something counterproductive, don't get butthurt and start complaining about censorship.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 28, 2016 2:32 AM  

Some of the JQ guys remind me of the character in A Throne of Bones who get's [redacted for spoilers] for stupidly charging the goblins and putting the whole damn battle at risk just because he wanted some personal glory.

Blogger Henry L'Éclair December 28, 2016 2:45 AM  

So you're saying anybody adressing JQ is not suitable for prime time media exposure???
That's odd.

Blogger Nathaniel Blair December 28, 2016 3:10 AM  

@VD and.....it's a talking point:
TYT - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIXnDQ5FIVQ
Google News - https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dFyYnbdgPQAyoyMyebShfwf6uoNFM&q=Alt-right+movement&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi83Y-lt5bRAhVIwLwKHY4UBXEQqgIIJDAA

i'm calling baked alaska got similar deal to richard spencer to do this - hell, he even admitted his profile pic was a heil

Anonymous digger December 28, 2016 3:53 AM  

(((Mike))) seems a bit oversensitive about the JQ. What is this the second or third time they've fired right now? I am fast loosing trust in MC.

Both Milo and Mike have stated they are not alt-right, why does VD keep supporting them when they fire on the alt-right?

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 4:06 AM  

As scary as it seems, asking the JQ does help drag the window to the right where we can fit tenets of nationalism, e.g., protectionism and a non-interventionist foreign policy. Deal with it.

That's irrelevant. There are times and places for everything. The fact that you can't understand that discussing something perfectly legitimate is acceptable for some people at certain times and not acceptable for other people at other times demonstrates that you are one of those amateurs who doesn't understand how to play the game.

Donald Trump did not announce that he was going to grab Megan Kelly by the pussy during the presidential debate, doing so would not move the Overton Window, and would have killed his campaign.

Don't be such a moron. And if you lie here one more time, as you did in your attempt to create a false narrative about Mike Cernovich, you'll be banned and spammed. You clearly have a desire to tear down Mike, so do not comment about him again. Any comments you make that refer to him in any way will be deleted.

Do it repeatedly and you'll be banned.

Both Milo and Mike have stated they are not alt-right, why does VD keep supporting them when they fire on the alt-right?

Because they are returning fire. I will fire on anyone in the Alt-Right who attacks me too, as the Alt-White understands. None of us has any obligation to passively endure personal attacks from anyone. Mike and Milo are much better at the media game than nearly anyone. Only an idiot would publicly attack them and invite reprisals. If you don't support them, then ignore them.

I understand you're bound to stick with him due to reciprocity and shared enterprise, but he is tarnishing his brand and by extension yours.

I'm not bound to do anything. I agree with him completely. I have zero respect for retarded amateurs who think they're master strategists because they survived one or two frontal charges and don't understand that you don't ever use artillery as ground fodder.

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 4:12 AM  

and.....it's a talking point

I'd like to congratulate Baked Alaska, the new Leader of the Alt-Right.

You too can become a Leader of the Alt-Right. Just put on a swastika armband, go to your local TV news station, and start shouting about how much you hate blacks and Jews.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor December 28, 2016 4:28 AM  

On the other hand, the Democratic nominee for president unapologetically supported partial birth abortion, and so did many of her supporters. That makes the hard core GTKRWN guys seem pretty well-mannered by comparison.

Anonymous Clark Sebastian December 28, 2016 4:30 AM  

What is driving people to the ranks of the alt right is the visible failure of leftist policies, particularly the actions of the vibrants. That's not going to stop just because the media throw a hissy fit and say "look, some of them are Nazis!". And in any case, what did Baked Alaska do? He made the observation that Jews are disproportionately represented in media ownership. That's hardly holocaust denial, though the media sees no difference.

Mike and Milo, even if they're coming at this from a tactical point of view, aren't going to be able to achieve anything at all, because their ideology is race-blind cuckservatism. Suppose they do manage to create a new mainstream movement and make it big. Then what? They're both race creationists that don't care if whites become a minority just as long as "Western values" are codified into law. They offer cuckservatism with a side of frog memes.

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 4:37 AM  

What is driving people to the ranks of the alt right is the visible failure of leftist policies, particularly the actions of the vibrants. That's not going to stop just because the media throw a hissy fit and say "look, some of them are Nazis!".

That's absolutely true.

And in any case, what did Baked Alaska do? He made the observation that Jews are disproportionately represented in media ownership.

No, he disobeyed his superior's order to discipline himself. His subsequent behavior demonstrates that he should never have been permitted to be involved in the first place. Gammas gonna gamma.

Mike and Milo, even if they're coming at this from a tactical point of view, aren't going to be able to achieve anything at all, because their ideology is race-blind cuckservatism.

That's absolutely false.

Blogger Nara December 28, 2016 4:40 AM  

I don't know much about Baked Alaska other than his association with Milo. He does seem to be dragging this out in a gamma way. He'd do well to realise that Cernovich is a brand and his positions will fluctuate because of this. For instance, Jared Wyand posted tweets by Cernovich on Gab of him identifying as alt-right, then refuting that once the election was over. He got what he wanted politically which aligned with the Alt-Right, now back to scheduled programming after growing his base.

Anonymous Rocklea December 28, 2016 4:41 AM  

Timing
After the election I was running around telling anyone who would listen that we'd just witnessed a huge culture shift in western civilisation and that white identity politics was the order of the day. I was able to take many people from an anti Trump position to a pro one in a matter of minutes. This was both timing and one of my skill sets(sales/persuasion) at work. One guy went from making disparaging remarks on Trump to wanting to run for public office on a pro nationalist platform in the space of 5 minutes. Were I to meet the same man today the conversation would be different, particularly in tone(which is why I have started posting here, to both contribute and learn a new skill set, written tone) though similar outcomes may have been achieved. That moment is now gone in the 24/7 news cycle we live in.

Context
Many good points have been raised here about BA working for Mike, brand protection, the timing with regard to venue and being deplatformed. Good counter points too about nothing being off limits. The audience is changing and many don't care about MSM anymore. Not being on twitter myself, from what I understand, it started out with a harmless tweet and escalated to an all out brawl, resulting in bad optics for everyone involved.

Loyalty
This one is interesting, and I don't have a well thought out opinion yet, and it would be just that. An opinion. I have listened to some of Mike's work, some of Richard Spencer's and none of BA's. Mike seems to have a scorched earth policy towards those that he has had a problem with. He puts them firmly in the enemy tent, perhaps appropriately, I don't know. I do recall seeing an interview with Mike and Paul Joseph Watson(who to me is alt right but thinks he is alt west) on the "roman salute incident", and thinking to myself that "this is nothing like the NPI event" that I actually watched in full. I was disappointed in both, but forgiving in understanding brand protection. However, Mike's full tilt boogey is something he should get a handle on, and sometimes, just sometimes, saying nothing can work.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor December 28, 2016 4:57 AM  

"...and sometimes, just sometimes, saying nothing can work."

This. Did the Democrats go into overdrive denouncing Hillary's pro-partial birth abortion stance? Nope. They just ignored it and acted like aborting a healthy baby was as American as apple pie.

That's what we need to do whenever the media claims that some Alt-Right figure is acting inappropriately.

Anonymous trev006 December 28, 2016 5:07 AM  

Without getting involved in any of the peripheral issues- except to say that some people will call JQ Judenfrage, and be right to note the allusion- BA was acting in the capacity of a Cernovich employee. Whether you agree with WN theory or not, that isn't the purpose of that group.

Yes, employers fear leftist convergence. Do we have to be on the lookout for WN convergence as well? Or does BA mainly represent himself?

Blogger wreckage December 28, 2016 5:09 AM  

"No, he disobeyed his superior's order to discipline himself."

Exactly. If you CANNOT BE TAMED go make your own brand. Can't hack it? Then fall into line. If I hire you to clean the floors you better fucking not shit on the table.

Blogger Fred Carter December 28, 2016 5:16 AM  

I don't like how any of this was handled. Mike has been working with BA, he should have known going about it as he did was going to blow up. Not only that, in his texts to BA he provoked him, Have you read them? If not you should, my opinion of you would change greatly if you told me you would allow Mike to talk to you like that. I am not a huge fan of BA, but from what I seen, his tweets weren't that bad. He said something negative in reference to Jews, of course the media attacks anyone who says anything negative about Jews, we all know that but what does that mean, should we all be careful to never say anything negative about the jews or race out of fear of being called names by the left? The part that bothers me most about this is this, did Mike even disagree with what he said? I didn't see anything that would indicate that he did, his issue was, that he said it, doesn't matter if its true or not, you just can't say stuff like that and his reason was, because you know the left and media will call you/us names.

Blogger Francis The Pope December 28, 2016 5:29 AM  

So ignoring the JQ question, can somebody explain to me how a white who marries a non white and produces non white babies does not fall in the "cuck" category ? Likewise, why should whites want to have someone who miscegenates as a role model for whites ?

Blogger Francis The Pope December 28, 2016 5:42 AM  

"You too can become a Leader of the Alt-Right. Just put on a swastika armband, go to your local TV news station, and start shouting about how much you hate blacks and Jews."

I can use the very same logic:
You too can become a Leader of the Alt-Right. Just be a narcissistic homosexual, go to your local TV news station, and start wearing drag and boasting how you were with a black man.

But why stop there, if that is acceptable on what premise can you reject BLM from wanting to be alt-right leaders ?

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 5:47 AM  

I can use the very same logic

No, you observably can't. It doesn't serve the media's narrative, you idiot.

if that is acceptable on what premise can you reject BLM from wanting to be alt-right leaders

For the same reason that I reject the idea that either Mike or Milo are Alt-Right. They don't agree with a sufficient number of the 16 Points.

Anonymous roughcoat December 28, 2016 5:56 AM  

Fred Carter wrote:I don't like how any of this was handled. Mike has been working with BA, he should have known going about it as he did was going to blow up. Not only that, in his texts to BA he provoked him, Have you read them? If not you should, my opinion of you would change greatly if you told me you would allow Mike to talk to you like that.

Beyond that, Mike also indulged in significant character assassination on twitter and periscope, deleting what he said immediately after saying it. I didn't screencap it but I saw it all unfold. He accused BA of being a druggie, of being drunk while knocking on doors for Trump, etc, when he knows perfectly well BA has been sober for months. He threw some pretty vicious attacks BA's way before BA really started attacking back. It's also relevant to note that Milo threatened to sue Baked Alaska while all this was going on.

I believe Baked Alaska was reacting much more to the personal attacks from someone he thought was a friend than to the ideological/tactical disagreement or the fact that he'd been fired or forcibly separated or whatever that was. He wasn't lashing out in a vacuum, even if all that's left is his side of the fight because Mike deleted all the stuff he posted. Mike left out anything that made him look bad in that post he made, and is still whitewashing his twitter tonight (though I haven't seen anything more directed at Baked Alaska).

I don't have a problem with Mike firing Baked Alaska. I get why he did it and I agree he had to. But the story he's presenting is, shall we say, incomplete and misleading.

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 5:56 AM  

I am not a huge fan of BA, but from what I seen, his tweets weren't that bad.

That has nothing to do with it. If you're told not to dance, it doesn't matter if you waltz, do the Electric Slide, or publicly perform the Lambada, the forbidden dance, in the nude. You don't fucking dance.

He said something negative in reference to Jews, of course the media attacks anyone who says anything negative about Jews, we all know that but what does that mean, should we all be careful to never say anything negative about the jews or race out of fear of being called names by the left?

Are you really so stupid that you cannot understand the difference between "it is counterproductive for you to publicly discuss X, Y, and Z now in light of your current responsibilities" and "no one should ever publicly mention anything related to X, Y, or Z?"

Seriously, are you people literally retarded or do you just act as if you are?

I don't hate Nazis or Jews, but I really do despise gammas.

Blogger Fred Carter December 28, 2016 6:00 AM  

Did anyone else see this? http://www.ibtimes.com/alt-right-movement-deploraball-spat-over-baked-alaska-splitting-trump-supporters-2466174

After reading that, I am now wondering if this whole thing was a part of some master plan. That article normalises the Alt-Right and Spencer. The focus is negative but the negativity is on BA and Mike, Spencer's comment is genius, both he and the Alt-Right come away looking like the sane parts of the story.

Anonymous C3 December 28, 2016 6:03 AM  

What is becoming more and more apparent is that neither Mike nor Milo are leaders. That is fine. They are very good in what they do and a friend should tell them when they are no good in other fields.

A leader wouldn't have build up Baked Alaska. Milo made him big cause he loves drama and enjoys the fireworks. Mike employed him, sadly not as an employee but as a person to build his own brand. Trainwreck in the making. You can't feed the ego of a gamma and then expect to be able to keep him in check with real talk when it matters.

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 6:05 AM  

Mike also indulged in significant character assassination on twitter and periscope, deleting what he said immediately after saying it. I didn't screencap it but I saw it all unfold.

That may well be. I don't know anything about that because I'm not on Twitter or Periscope. If Mike went too far in that regard, then he would do well to consider apologizing for doing so.

That doesn't change the fact that this has nothing to do with the Alt-Right philosophy or that people would do well to understand that there is a significant difference between shitposting anonymously and playing dancing monkey for the media cameras.

There is nothing wrong with being a shitposter. But that is a specific role which requires different skills and attributes than being a media figure.

Blogger Fred Carter December 28, 2016 6:26 AM  

@157 "Are you really so stupid that you cannot understand the difference between "it is counterproductive for you to publicly discuss X, Y, and Z now in light of your current responsibilities" and "no one should ever publicly mention anything related to X, Y, or Z?"

In light of what current responsibilities? Being apart of the deplorables going to a party who helped trump get elected? What exactly do you think the deploraball is supposed to be? The Alt-Right helped Trump get elected,the Alt-Right was the driving force behind the deplorables. the censoring being done is an attempt to separate the Alt-Right from the deplorables

Anonymous c3 December 28, 2016 6:30 AM  

In light of what current responsibilities?

Being payed to do what his employer, Mike Cernovich, wants him to do. If you think of Mike as "no good", then you cannot jump on the side of BA cause he sold out to "no good". He wasn't his own man. He was a creation of Milo and Mike. Who dragged him to the number of followers he has now.

Anonymous JAMES December 28, 2016 6:42 AM  

So BA had a tiff with Mike.

And?

My God this is tedious bullshit.

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 6:52 AM  

As for your "16 points", it not my problem if you suffer from a Napoleon complex, you are not as important as you think you are. Baked Alaska has far more followers than anything you can muster, and thus makes him more legitimate than you.

That's nice. Go away and don't read or comment here again. Your future comments will be spammed.

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 6:53 AM  

In light of what current responsibilities?

1. Being a paid contract employee
2. Being a featured speaker at a public event requiring a venue.

Apparently you really are that stupid.

Anonymous Rocklea December 28, 2016 7:14 AM  

"There is nothing wrong with being a shitposter. But that is a specific role which requires different skills and attributes than being a media figure."

I recently heard an interview with Arthur Kemp and Jim Giles from radio Mississippi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lX0tO8aHro
It illustrates this point quite well. The interviewer explained to Arthur how he ran for office not once but twice on an anti Zionist platform, while admitting that the electorate had no idea what Zionism was. He lost. Twice. Arthur then pointed out his logical error, and suggested he switch to pointing out disparate welfare distribution among ethnic groups. Jim conceded the point and then suggested Arthur have an interview with some expert on the Jewish agenda. Arthur declined. More than twice. Then Jim got really excited by his fist ever call in to the show. How Arthur got himself into this situation is a mystery to me. Arthur has had some success as an author and with the British National Party. I don't know what Jim is doing now.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore December 28, 2016 7:25 AM  

I know this is discussion between you Alt-Right dudes but I cannot abstain from offering my worthless, good for nothing, unimportant opinion so please forgive.

From what I gathered, it seems that a dude (BA) got fired from a job and is now making a public stink about it without ever addressing the reasons for his employer (MC) fired him. Of course there are other issues at work but the cause of BA's loss of employment is central to this entire kerfuffle.

This reminds me of a type of Black person who gets fired for legitimate reasons, then says "I was fired because I was Black", and proceeds to initiate some type of political action to make his grievances known to as many persons as possible. In the process, other like minded Blacks will join his side and issue the usual "muh systemic oppression" talking points. Never mind the fact that the dude was coming to work late, doing things to make his employer look bad and potentially lose customers.

This episode reminds me of when Willie Randolph was fired from his manager's position with the Mets. In the press conference he suggested that his skin color had something to do with it when, in fact, he was in his very first managerial position and was not yet experienced enough to do what the Mets needed for him to do. He shoulda' started out as a minor league coach.

There, I've offered my two cents which have not yet been adjusted for inflation.

Anonymous JAG December 28, 2016 7:25 AM  

To me this ultimately boils down to having to play by the rules of the guy signing your checks even if you think he's an asshole. Even if he is an honest to god, full-fledged asshole you either do it his way, or you find something else to do. The personal shit between them is none of my business so I have no comment for that.

Anonymous roughcoat December 28, 2016 7:43 AM  

Al From Bay Shore wrote:I know this is discussion between you Alt-Right dudes but I cannot abstain from offering my worthless, good for nothing, unimportant opinion so please forgive.

From what I gathered, it seems that a dude (BA) got fired from a job and is now making a public stink about it without ever addressing the reasons for his employer (MC) fired him. Of course there are other issues at work but the cause of BA's loss of employment is central to this entire kerfuffle.


Well, no, that's not how it went. It all blew up because Baked Alaska made public his firing and the reasons for it. He's the one that brought it out into the open by posting screencaps of the conversation where Mike fired him. That's when the drama really started.

Say what you want about Baked Alaska's ideas and whether he's ready for prime time, but the guy hasn't been dishonest about his actions or failings in any of this that I've seen*. I respect that even though I agree he was not well suited to the role he was in (or rather, what the role had evolved to be) and Mike had to get rid of him.

BA doesn't have some victimhood complex, he has reason to be upset. But if you want to look at the actual ideological disagreement, what it boils down to is the people on Baked Alaska's side want to keep pushing the envelope, and the people on Mike's side want to pause and solidify the gains they've made. I think Mike's right if only because most people aren't paying attention anymore after the election. So even if the envelope is pushed with the political junkie crowd that is paying attention, the normies aren't going to come along for the ride.

*There are some points Mike and BA contradict each other on that I simply don't know the truth of, though.

Anonymous AnalogMan December 28, 2016 7:59 AM  

... declaring your intention of attacking an elected official, expressing your attraction to a minor, putting naked pictures of yourself online, or threatening to commit violence on another individual, you are not ready for prime time.

Would that also apply to publicly boasting of sodomy with negroes?

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 9:22 AM  

Would that also apply to publicly boasting of sodomy with negroes?

Obviously not. Feel free.

Blogger Sojourner December 28, 2016 9:29 AM  

Look, the alt right may be built on the concept of Christianity being integral to the West but it sure isn't being led by it. It's a humanistic answer to a secular problem that we're facing at this point in history. It's "leaders" are, for the most part, not godly leaders who seek God's will over the movement and it's direction. What we see now would obviously come from men who seek power (and let's not BS, outside of Box that's exactly what they seek.)

So, the reality becomes that the alt right is something temporary, a stop gap till faith arrives and is restored (if that ever happens). As a Christian I understand these are very flawed men trying to wrestle the Lion with only worldly wisdom as their guide. I pray for success but understand that unless these men put God first, we're most likely looking at something that will crash and burn under its own weight soon enough (and hence wise I'm glad Trump is his own thing.)

*Disclaimer, even Christian led movements fail from time to time because of pride, ego and selfishness so how much more should this be subject to the same pitfalls.

Blogger NMA December 28, 2016 9:32 AM  

My take on it (by way of analogy):

A platoon of soldiers are sneaking up on an enemy post when one of them suddenly pulls a trombone out of his backpack and starts to play it. The platoon sergeant immediately stabs him. Is the platoon sergeant doing what he needs to do for the mission, or is he unsuitable for his position due to his irrational hatred of brass band music?

Blogger tridekka December 28, 2016 9:35 AM  

Looks like the short bus dumped it's denizens this morning. Not sure there's enough windows for them all; some may have to share.

People need the sense to keep their private affairs private instead of airing it for everyone and making a big mess over a simple screwup. That's not just BA, it's many these days. Like others have said; if you're taking marching orders, then march or GTFO. Don't try and lead everyone else somewhere else on your employer's dime.

Anonymous Dan December 28, 2016 9:42 AM  

#22 wrote:

"I think a lot of alt lite people were united with more extreme elements for the sake of Trump and it's no surprise that this sort of thing is happening. Sam Hyde decided not to go to the Deploraball after he found out Richard Spencer was banned. They should just start their own ball. Not as competition but there's no reasons to be reliant on people who want nothing to do with you or your beliefs."

Exactly. Create your own damn ball, and make it great. Rent a space and then do whatever you want. That is the healthiest approach:

(1) It is just natural growth. The number one thing I yell at my kids when they fight is spread out, spread out! Something that is growing should splinter off. Two giant oaks can't grow side-by-side. They will both end up twisted and stunted. If two people are both natural leaders, they should separately lead different groups.

(2) Baked Alaska can be a great foil as others go mainstream. However, he can't be a groupie who thrives on social confirmation and be a true dissident at the same time. Dissidents have to drink the bitter cup of rejection and learn to enjoy it.

(3) It is good for there to be thriving intellectual communities out of the mainstream. Not everything is ready for primetime.

Anonymous Dystopia Max December 28, 2016 10:01 AM  

"A platoon of soldiers are sneaking up on an enemy post when one of them suddenly pulls a trombone out of his backpack and starts to play it. The platoon sergeant immediately stabs him. Is the platoon sergeant doing what he needs to do for the mission, or is he unsuitable for his position due to his irrational hatred of brass band music?"

Did the platoon sergeant have a history of playing trombone during ambushes, so much so that his soldiers considered it a normal, everyday part of the operations?

Did the rest of his soldiers support that platoon sergeant, or did they scatter in disgust, alternately giving conflicting accounts and refusing requests for interview?

Did the platoon sergeant's actions spark a massive diplomatic incident whose negative consequences were far in excess of the consequences of the failure of the operation?

Why the hell is the platoon sergeant putting the bard in the scouting party anyway?

If you don't want a new Hitler should you really be setting artists up for failure?

Anonymous NateM December 28, 2016 10:06 AM  

"For Milo's part, the email that Alaska published is revealing. He's acted like a complete primadonna"

Does anyone really think that's out of character for Milo?

Anonymous teapartydoc December 28, 2016 10:09 AM  

I was an employer for a long time. I would never have addressed an employee the way Cernovich addressed BA. Also, part of being a good employer is making sure that everyone is aware of the rules ahead of time and sticks with them. And that includes the employer.

Blogger l' Américain December 28, 2016 10:12 AM  

"Donald Trump did not announce that he was going to grab Megan Kelly by the pussy during the presidential debate, doing so would not move the Overton Window, and would have killed his campaign."

You're making a false equivalency. There is nothing intellectual about Donald Trump saying that. On the other hand, remarking that there is a remarkable degree of media influence in the hands of a clearly tribal group carries weight.

There were two mistakes made during this whole spat: BA jeopardized the event and (((Mike))) somewhat de-platformed a guy ballsy enough to ask the JQ publicly. One mistake was potentially expensive, the other mistake was egregious and cowardly.

Anonymous Dystopia Max December 28, 2016 10:26 AM  

Really, the 'platoon sergeant' thing is a risible comparison...one of the biggest things about the Army is ALWAYS PLACE THE MISSION FIRST, as well as: YOU CAN'T FIRE YOUR SOLDIERS EXCEPT IN EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES, SO YOU BETTER KNOW THEM AS WELL AS YOU KNOW YOURSELF. The second one isn't written but strongly implied, which means it might as well be written.

really this sounds like a self-serving managerial comparison, but managers are almost always about post-hoc rationalizing away blame with an obtuse metaphor or three.

I don't give a shit if your behavior was 'technically allowable within the rules I set for myself somewhere and may delete at any time, just like my tweets'. Another cancelled venue would have been a MASSIVE propaganda victory.

Publicly blowing off JESSE FUCKING SINGAL, who was playing the concern troll in this whole thing, would have been a propaganda victory even if he had gotten the new ball canceled:

https://twitter.com/TheeCurrentYear/status/813595038785671170

But no, apparently helping the "brand" (arguably now irrevocably tarnished) and asserting your own authority in a small-potatoes contractural arrangements is more important.

I have never seen a more pennywise/pound-foolish maneuver in my lifetime, which is why people are naturally throwing out the Jew-word even if Mike is technically goy. Matches too many independent patterns in the life experiences of too many people, that's why it's memetic in the first place.

Blogger BunE22 December 28, 2016 10:43 AM  

What happened to no enemies on the right?

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 10:49 AM  

What happened to no enemies on the right?

There is a difference between telling people "stop being stupid" and treating them as an enemy. I don't attack anyone on the right who doesn't attack me first.

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 10:52 AM  

apparently helping the "brand" (arguably now irrevocably tarnished) and asserting your own authority in a small-potatoes contractural arrangements is more important.

Mike's "brand" is not tarnished in the least. Do you not understand it gets burnished every time some idiot "calls him out"?

And if you're surprised that Mike's brand comes first, you obviously haven't read any of his books. He's not, and has never been, an ideologue or a movement figure. For that matter, neither am I.

Learn to distinguish between a) movement people, b) media celebs, and c) intellectuals. You cannot expect one type to behave like another. You simply can't.

Why do you think Mike, Milo, and I have all resolutely denied being leaders of the Alt-Right, despite occasional efforts to declare one or more of us so? Because none of us are movement people. We never will be.

Anonymous teapartydoc December 28, 2016 11:23 AM  

"none of us are movement people. We never will be."
That statement is both wise and frustrating. Several years back I had a comment section conversation with a guy who desperately wanted someone to come to the fore of the teaparty movement. I told him that the moment a leadership stepped forward it was all over and it would lose its political force because those leaders would become targets and the movement risked becoming a racket. Both came true.
Therefore it is good in my opinion that you continue to deny that you are movement people. However, the fact of the matter is, well, here you are. This site is a go to place to find out what's up. 16 points. I know that this can be considered to be an academic exercise, but what we call things and what the facts are on the ground can be at variance.
I appreciate your very measured approach to what is happening, and the distance you keep. Being in another country probably helps. The approach of the person you are defending is, I must say, otherwise. In my opinion he is trying to have his cake and eat it, too, to use an old saying.
Usually people would finish a post like this with advice. I can tell that in this case doing so would be unwise, so I'll leave it at that.

Blogger Nationalist Flicka December 28, 2016 11:33 AM  

It's all unfortunate, IMO.

How Bill Mitchell got into the mix is puzzling though.

I do relish in reading (from GenM) the absolute disdain for the boomers hurled his way though.

He seems to be something of an opportunist and a massive cuck.

Blogger Ransom Smith December 28, 2016 11:49 AM  

@185

Is it really that surprising that Bill Mitchel went full Boomer cuck? He's a typical cuckservative that latched on to the movement.

Anonymous LastRedoubt December 28, 2016 11:55 AM  

I listened to a couple episodes of his show, and gave up after he gushed about how he talked to Jack and how people should stop bitching about twitter if they're using it. Had a couple good points here and there, some good optimism re: the recount and some guys on who understood how it worked, but....

I can't put my finger on it but something is just "off"

Blogger bob kek mando ( NABTY ) December 28, 2016 12:04 PM  

174. tridekka December 28, 2016 9:35 AM
Not sure there's enough windows for them all; some may have to share.



Nancy: i'm skeered. the Stupid, is it ... contagious?

Shitlord: don't lick the window and you'll never find out.

Blogger VD December 28, 2016 12:08 PM  

However, the fact of the matter is, well, here you are. This site is a go to place to find out what's up. 16 points. I know that this can be considered to be an academic exercise, but what we call things and what the facts are on the ground can be at variance.

There is a massive difference between an intellectual and a movement leader. Marx never led anything. One can have a tremendous effect on the way many people think without ever being a leader.

I am assured every day - several times today, in fact - that the 16 Points are irrelevant and I am unimportant - by those who consider themselves Alt-Right. That's fine. After all, Marx's was not the only socialism. Time will tell which, if any, version of the Alt-Right lasts.

It's great that people find it useful, even inspiring. But I am not my ideas. I hope they will long outlast me. And you don't need to follow me, or even have heard of me, to make effective use of them.

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