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Thursday, December 08, 2016

The boomerang concept

French Socialists quite clearly don't understand how their actions in the National Assembly are likely to come back to haunt them before too many years have passed, if the Senate doesn't have the sense to reel them in:
The French National Assembly has voted to approve a bill that would outlaw some pro-life websites. The Socialist government wants to criminalise sites which it says “exert psychological or moral pressure” on women not to abort. The proposed offence would be punishable by up to two years’ imprisonment and a €30,000 fine.

Archbishop Georges Pontier of Marseille, president of the French bishops’ conference, has written to President François Hollande expressing his concern about the bill. Archbishop Pontier urged Hollande to not allow the bill’s passage, calling it a “serious infringement of democratic principles”.

French law already prevents pro-lifers from demonstrating outside abortion clinics. Supporters of the bill argue that pro-life tactics have now moved online and must be stopped.

The bill will now need to pass through the French senate, which blocked the legislation earlier this year.

Dominique Tian, MP for Les Républicains, said there was a “very heavy atmosphere in parliament” and accused the government of “attacking freedom of expression”. He said the government’s proposals were “dangerous for democracy and probably anti-constitutional”, and that his party would do all it could to stop them.
I mean, it's not like such a law would ever be used to criminalize sites that advocate alternative sexual preferences, or practices, or for that matter, Marxian economics, right? Now, I understand the principle of MPAI and I know that socialists tend to have a hard time anticipating logical consequences, but this is indicative of a short time-preference to an extent one seldom sees outside of primitive tribes that can't count to five.

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76 Comments:

Blogger GFR December 08, 2016 1:25 PM  

Let them do it. The mainstream media is probably completely liberal in France. They have more to lose than we do..

Blogger Kant Leerus December 08, 2016 1:26 PM  

Keep up the information dump, every post is fantastic. I am probably not the first to notice the soft spoken kindness you have in face to face interviews or debates and ruthlessness on blogs and net... appreciate both, 2 sides to the same coin

Blogger Richard Stone December 08, 2016 1:31 PM  

"Archbishop Georges Pontier of Marseille, president of the French bishops’ conference, has written to President François Hollande expressing his concern about the bill. Archbishop Pontier urged Hollande to not allow the bill’s passage, calling it a “serious infringement of democratic principles”."

Sheese. I'm thinking a *little* stronger wording may be in order here, maybe something along the lines of "a mortal sin anyone supporting will undoubtably be damned for."

Blogger Student in Blue December 08, 2016 1:34 PM  

@2. Kant Leerus
Keep up the information dump, every post is fantastic.

He's been doing it for, what, 15+ years now? I don't imagine he'll stop anytime soon. :)

Anonymous WinstonWebb December 08, 2016 1:36 PM  

"Of course, monseigneur, I will sell you this length of rope and knot-tying instructions, but whatever do you plan to...mon Dieu!!! *urk* *gag* *gurgle* ---silence---"

Anonymous Thales December 08, 2016 1:36 PM  

Perhaps they should craft some kind of imprimatur which all books and websites must be stamped with before they can legally be read?

Blogger Kant Leerus December 08, 2016 1:37 PM  

Only been following for a few months :)

Anonymous Kyle Stein December 08, 2016 1:39 PM  

Whatever....

When the demographics change and whites are a minority then will see who run it

Blogger bearspaw December 08, 2016 1:40 PM  

Last month, in Ontario, a by election was held to elect a vacant seat in the Ontario legislature. A 19 year old student of Dutch heritage won in a rout against a progressive and a socialist. His platform had one plank- anti abortion. The boy went door to door with a batalion of fellow stidents, male and female, promoting his pro life message. And won- easily.


Anonymous TBA December 08, 2016 1:43 PM  

Many people seem to think that what's mandatory goodthink today always will be. Even if your time preference is a thousand years it doesn't matter, because GOODTHINK IS FOREVER.

Blogger Marsh 01701 December 08, 2016 1:48 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Sagramore December 08, 2016 1:51 PM  

But Vox, It's Okay When We Do It™.

Blogger Stilicho December 08, 2016 1:55 PM  

But socialists ARE a primitive tribe that can't count to 5. It goes something like this: 1, 2, 3, socialist utopia! (other variants are 1,2,3, tax the rich! And 1,2,3, other people's money!).

Anonymous Alexander December 08, 2016 1:56 PM  

Good to see that French Socialists have their own Harry Reid.

After all, progress is a ratchet and now that we are in power, procedures that limit our ability to act should be disbanded, because there is no danger they'll ever be used against us.

Anonymous Deplorable S E Delenda December 08, 2016 2:03 PM  

@3

"Sheese. I'm thinking a *little* stronger wording may be in order here, maybe something along the lines of "a mortal sin anyone supporting will undoubtably be damned for.""

That would presume Hollande believes (his) eternal damnation is possible. If he did, he wouldn't be a socialist. I suspect many socialists are surprised at death.

Anonymous SugarPi December 08, 2016 2:03 PM  

A dying culture is outlawing an effort to stop the dying... but that will eventually switch to outlawing the promotion of infanticide (and other culture-killing practices)? Better flip that switch soon.

Blogger James Dixon December 08, 2016 2:06 PM  

You know, this brings to mind one of John Boy and Billy's Hoyt scripts. Folks who have heard the show will know what I mena.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 08, 2016 2:10 PM  

That would presume Hollande believes (his) eternal damnation is possible.

It also presumes the archbishop thinks so, which is far from a sure bet.

Anonymous Clay December 08, 2016 2:16 PM  

Ya know, VD, I'll hope you will revive the the VPFL this next season. I miss it. If you don't choose to be the Commish, let Mr. John C Wright choose to do so...if he should have to the propensity. Hell, SB might be better to do so.

Regards,

Clay.

Anonymous Broken Arrow December 08, 2016 2:22 PM  

Short time preferences and calling everyone a tenth of a step to the right of them they are "literally Hitler". I don't see how Trump possibly won and right wing nationalism is on the rise. Mystery!

Blogger pyrrhus December 08, 2016 2:25 PM  

Once again, we see that the only good socialist is a dead socialist....

Anonymous Wes Permen December 08, 2016 2:27 PM  

white people are the most overrated thing ever

http://verysmartbrothas.com/the-worlds-most-overrated-things-ranked-from-least-overrated-to-most-overrated/

Anonymous RA December 08, 2016 2:41 PM  

@9 This and Trump's election should shows how people can respond to the one issue that matters the most where they live if that issue has been shut down by those who are running the show.

Gross violations of Godwin's Law, short time preferences, ad hominem ad nauseum, etc. When the Democrats dumped the Senate filibuster a few years back, they couldn't have thought it would bite them in the ass, did they? smh

Anonymous fop December 08, 2016 2:47 PM  

France is ten times cuckier than you can imagine.

Actual conversation:

Frenchman: "These f%&ing cockroach immigrants. Filthy pigs don't assimilate. Just take the welfare and destroy neighborhoods. Human garbage."

Me: "Wow. Maybe you should send them back."

Frenchman: "What are you a racist?"

Blogger Cetera December 08, 2016 2:48 PM  

but this is indicative of a short time-preference to an extent one seldom sees outside of primitive tribes that can't count to five.

That's only because time is growing short. The Evil one knows, and those that have dedicated themselves to his service feel the urgency.

Blogger Freeholder December 08, 2016 2:56 PM  

In America, the liberals are starting to figure out that the unchecked power of various agencies (specifically the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau) are soon going to be held by Trump appointee's. Popcorn sales rise.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 08, 2016 2:57 PM  

Now, I understand the principle of MPAI and I know that socialists tend to have a hard time anticipating logical consequences, but this is indicative of a short time-preference to an extent one seldom sees outside of primitive tribes that can't count to five.

You'd be tempted to think we're experiencing a massive decline in intelligence. Fortunately SCIENCE tells us that we're the smartest humans that ever lived, because iPhones.

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 08, 2016 3:01 PM  

Sagramore wrote:But Vox, It's Okay When We Do It™.

This Time It™ Will Be Different.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor December 08, 2016 3:12 PM  

Once again, we see that the only good socialist is a dead socialist....

Well, dead is a good start.

Blogger modsquad December 08, 2016 3:15 PM  

fop wrote:France is ten times cuckier than you can imagine.

Actual conversation:

Frenchman: "These f%&ing cockroach immigrants. Filthy pigs don't assimilate. Just take the welfare and destroy neighborhoods. Human garbage."

Me: "Wow. Maybe you should send them back."

Frenchman: "What are you a racist?"


Culturalist. People can't assimilate their skin color (race), but they can assimilate their behavior, which is cultural.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 08, 2016 3:25 PM  

Observe what happens when Price gets ahold of the levers of power built into 0bamacare. The screeching will be deafening.

Blogger Robert Divinity December 08, 2016 3:28 PM  

It almost would be as stupid as U.S. Senate Democrats reducing the number of votes to filibuster to 51. Oh, wait.

Blogger David Power December 08, 2016 3:49 PM  

The ultimate expression of male violence is War

The ultimate expression of female vanity is Abortion.

Anonymous SugarPi December 08, 2016 4:04 PM  

About 60 years ago a popular song was "My Boomerang Won't Come Back." Probably inspired by the Aztecs.
So, quick, abort all socialists... or cut their hearts out in a ritual to the gods.

Blogger André Sanchez December 08, 2016 4:35 PM  

Need those dead babies for the Spirit Cooking dinners ya know.

Anonymous clay December 08, 2016 4:40 PM  

I suppose I'm missing something....but, Aztecs had boomerangs???

Blogger André Sanchez December 08, 2016 4:45 PM  

These people really don't get it. They dehumanize a segment of the population (the unborn) and make it a sin to even conceive of the idea that they might be humans. This isn't about freedom of expression. The right isn't going to simply censor pro-choice views. The dehumanize and kill without shame or mercy tactic is what they need to start fearing.

Blogger David Power December 08, 2016 4:45 PM  

@34

"My Boomerang Won't Come Back" was a hit by a short, bald comedian called Charlie Drake. Who indecently, my father said he saw with the most beautiful woman he had ever seen, on his arm one night in London.

Preselection trumps looks every time.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 08, 2016 5:03 PM  

Harry Reid says it's all Comey's fault, without that Hillary would have won and the D's could have even picked up a couple of Senate seats. Oh, and the Koch bros. Other than that, the DNCe is fine, just fine, no need for any changes. Nope.

Maybe Harry can move to France and help out Hollande.

Blogger James Dixon December 08, 2016 5:15 PM  

> Harry Reid says it's all Comey's fault

There is a non-negligible chance that he's somewhat correct in that assessment. I sure Comey's actions influenced some percentage of uncertain voters (I don't think anyone was undecided by that time, merely looking for reasons to justify their decision). He's completely wrong about everything else though.

Blogger James Dixon December 08, 2016 5:16 PM  

> They dehumanize a segment of the population (the unborn) and make it a sin to even conceive of the idea that they might be humans.

There's an old saying that seems applicable to that: What goes around comes around.

Blogger Daniel December 08, 2016 5:21 PM  

All of this during the biggest hijra ever recorded. I dont know what to think anymore

Anonymous SugarPi December 08, 2016 5:26 PM  

@Clay... that was an attempt (feeble)at humor. My non-western civ prof told us that the Aztecs destroyed themselves in part by killing too many of the younger citizens who were needed to carry on the tribe. Clearly, the boomerang effect didn't apply... as the pendulum never swung back in the direction of those who perhaps didn't agree with all the bloodletting and would have banned the practice.
"Too late" happens.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 08, 2016 5:33 PM  

Daniel wrote:All of this during the biggest hijra ever recorded. I dont know what to think anymore
I think we should be thinking about how to sic law enforcement on the demonstrably criminal (from jamaat camps with felons handling firearms to EBT fraud in kebab-owned C-stores) and siccing EOE lawyers on Arabs who won't hire Blacks or Hispanics (until the EOE laws are repealed), and while they're off-balance from that start re-Americanizing zones which have been Islamized.  Once the repatriation flows have gotten well under way the final push to expel the dregs can begin.

Anonymous Eric the Red December 08, 2016 5:50 PM  

Indicative of the left; they don't know when to stop, it's not in their philosophy. They just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. They will find the right language or the right judge to eventually get this bill passed.

Tradition: inherent limits based on reality, natural law (hierarchy), and Christian God.

Leftism: no inherent limits, contrived from mental fantasies, a semi-religious monomania unhinged from reality.

Blogger Off The Wall December 08, 2016 5:59 PM  

"Now, I understand the principle of MPAI ..."

Sorry, I must have skipped a lesson somewhere, what does MPAI stand for in this context?

Anonymous Eric the Red December 08, 2016 6:08 PM  

addendum...

Traditionalism: can be modeled as stable (negative) feedback loops.

Leftism: can be modeled as unstable (positive) feedback loops.

Anonymous SugarPi December 08, 2016 6:14 PM  

@46 Most People Are Idiots (a Vox-ism)

Blogger Off The Wall December 08, 2016 6:29 PM  

SugarPi wrote:@46 Most People Are Idiots (a Vox-ism)

Brilliant! Thank you.

Anonymous BGKB December 08, 2016 7:22 PM  

Me: "Wow. Maybe you should send them back." Frenchman: "What are you a racist?"

Recommended travel distance 6' direction ⬇

> Harry Reid says it's all Comey's fault

I tell leftists its because they fought for tranny bathrooms in an election year, don't worry just keep calling everyone Hitler.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 08, 2016 7:26 PM  

This is the same nominal country that passed a similar law which makes it illegal to mention the mass murder of communists - because it's "minimizing the Holocaust". Three guesses (((who))) was behind that law. As for the Churchian Archbishop cucking away, he probably needs a refresher trip to Epstein Island.

Anonymous BGKB December 08, 2016 7:59 PM  

The Philippians now have a grrrl power vag trying to defeat Duterte

"Meet the woman ready to take on Philippines' hardman Duterte on his own turf
Nyshka Chandran"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/28e01bee-c8f6-36e1-ba2e-2f64628e6cad/meet-the-woman-ready-to-take.html

Anonymous Marvin Boggs December 08, 2016 10:08 PM  

@50: May I suggest 20 ft instead of 6ft? After all, deep down, the invaders are nice people.
(sorry, I'm an old guy and I like old jokes)

Blogger Akulkis December 08, 2016 11:01 PM  

@52


"Meet the woman ready to take on Philippines' hardman Duterte on his own turf
Nyshka Chandran"

LOL. Obviously she's not smart enough to understand that

wanting to != ready to

Anonymous RabidRatel December 09, 2016 12:50 AM  

Marvin Boggs wrote:@50: May I suggest 20 ft instead of 6ft? After all, deep down, the invaders are nice people.

(sorry, I'm an old guy and I like old jokes)


Is even 20 ft deep enough? I mean, if it is really really deep down that they are nice, wouldn't 20 fathoms be even better? Or do we have to dig?

BTW, hereabouts (Gauteng, South Africa) we have the deepest mines in the world. Deep down can really be a mile or more.

Blogger wreckage December 09, 2016 4:26 AM  

What is MPAI?

Blogger Alec Rawls December 09, 2016 5:38 AM  

Making moral arguments is to be made illegal in France... Explains a lot actually.

Blogger Duke Norfolk December 09, 2016 7:33 AM  

wreckage wrote:What is MPAI?

See @48:Vox-ism)

Blogger wreckage December 09, 2016 8:12 AM  

@58 Ahhhh, thanks.

Blogger S. Misanthrope December 09, 2016 1:05 PM  

Why are they like this specifically about abortion? There are plenty of things in the "legal but not moral" category where no one begrudges or limits free speech and advocacy rights. There's such a sense of desperation around abortion in particular that I don't fully understand.

Blogger André Sanchez December 09, 2016 1:23 PM  

@60 There is nothing complicated here. Abortion is the killing of a human being, which without a legitimate cause, is murder. If people point out that the nice liberals and delicate innocent women are openly engaged in mass murder, that is much heavier than any of the other "legal but not moral" issues. It strikes too close to the truth. So they absolutely MUST push the narrative that a fetus isn't really a human being. Also, #Spirit Dinner Parties.

Blogger SirHamster December 09, 2016 3:55 PM  

S. Misanthrope wrote:There's such a sense of desperation around abortion in particular that I don't fully understand.

To add to @61, some of those advocates have themselves had abortions or pushed their pregnant woman/women to do so.

It is a matter of life and death to their feelings whether or not they acknowledge that guilt. Being slaves to their feelings, they reject the truth with prejudice.

Anything that leaks through that prejudice might awaken their guilty conscience.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 09, 2016 6:05 PM  

André Sanchez wrote:There is nothing complicated here. Abortion is the killing of a human being, which without a legitimate cause, is murder.
Even granting your implied definitions of terms (hint, they're wrong), non-consensually occupying someone's body is "legitimate cause".

they absolutely MUST push the narrative that a fetus isn't really a human being.
I'll grant it the moral and legal status of a baby when it's capable of doing what a baby does:  breathe air on its own and live and grow by drinking milk.  Of course, that's not good enough for you.

Abortion is the rock the Religious Right has been wrecking its ships on for 40 years now.  It is a direct route to LOSING.  Haven't you learned ANYTHING from Trump?

Blogger SirHamster December 09, 2016 6:14 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:Abortion is the rock the Religious Right has been wrecking its ships on for 40 years now.  It is a direct route to LOSING.  Haven't you learned ANYTHING from Trump?


Poor Trump, wrecking his election chances when he said this at the 3rd debate:

"Well I think it is terrible. If you go with what Hillary is saying, in the ninth month you can take baby and rip the baby out of the womb of the mother just prior to the birth of the baby. Now, you can say that that is okay and Hillary can say that that is okay, but it's not okay with me. Because based on what she is saying and based on where she's going and where she's been, you can take baby and rip the baby out of the womb. In the ninth month. On the final day. And that's not acceptable."


It's just tragic how Clinton pulled out a narrow win thanks to Trump's stance on abortion. When ever shall the Right pragmatically abandon abortion for political victory like rational people would?

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 09, 2016 7:44 PM  

@64  Nobody cares all that much about 9th-month abortions.  The problem you Religious Reichers have is that you declare Plan B and even birth-control pills to be performing abortions.  The tens of millions of women who use them for family planning are never going to vote for a candidate even suspected of having such views.

After your Reich condemned Trump for being a New York liberal, he could get away with condemning third-trimester abortions to pander to you without anyone being able to seriously claim he was going after birth control.  Hitlery didn't even try making an issue of that.

There are what, 2 states where late 2nd-trimester abortions are still legal?  Trump may sign legislation but it is going to do nothing that hasn't already been done.  It'll be the ultimate in "something we could appear to be doing", and you will be right where you are now... only looking like ungrateful wretches because you got your bill and aren't satisfied.

Go ahead, aim your ship at those rocks again.  Trump won't be on it.

Blogger Thucydides December 10, 2016 1:16 AM  

Pro lifers should also be practicing Samizdat as a means of bypassing all government censorship, and in ways the State cannot immediately recognize or counter.

Blogger André Sanchez December 10, 2016 5:36 AM  

Mr. Rational wrote:
Even granting your implied definitions of terms (hint, they're wrong), non-consensually occupying someone's body is "legitimate cause".


No, they aren't wrong. You could argue that, and the extent to which people are willing to rationalize against basic biology (aka, human nature) is cute. There is room for reasonable legal discussion on the nuances of abortion. However, if a woman wasn't raped, or was but did not soon after use the "morning after pill", consent, and responsibility for the care of the fetus until delivery, has been acquired. Pretty basic logic here.

I'll grant it the moral and legal status of a baby when it's capable of doing what a baby does:  breathe air on its own and live and grow by drinking milk.  Of course, that's not good enough for you.

You can say that a fetus isn't a baby. That's fine. It's still a human. And if it isn't a baby, then it's something even more vulnerable and special than a baby. I like the term baby because it reminds people that we have a built-in love for it, it isn't a "thing", it's a little person.


Abortion is the rock the Religious Right has been wrecking its ships on for 40 years now.  It is a direct route to LOSING.  Haven't you learned ANYTHING from Trump?

You're wrong. Trump likely got more votes for promising to turn the tide on the abortion issue than he lost. That being said, I never said we need to give the issue of abortion our undivided attention.


The problem you Religious Reichers have is that you declare Plan B and even birth-control pills to be performing abortions.

Because they are. The pill is forgivable, and in cases of rape "plan B" is also forgivable. That is, if a woman goes to the police to report the rape, and investigation into the matter does not later reveal that she made it up. But let's not kid ourselves, the pill has done great damage to western society.


The tens of millions of women who use them for family planning are never going to vote for a candidate even suspected of having such views.

Which is another reason why women shouldn't be allowed to vote. It is deeply unwise to pander to women. My greatest concern with Trump is how much influence Ivanka seems to have over him.

Blogger André Sanchez December 10, 2016 6:49 AM  

Seriously, the woman worshiping cancer that western societies are suffering from is at the heart of everything, and nothing displays this as clearly as the abortion issue. Contrary to popular opinion, a vagina is not a dimensional portal from heaven through which souls incarnate on earth. Look, I get that we all die. I'm not that freaked out about death, because either God saves us, or he doesn't. Accepting that makes it much easier to live in this world. But that means I'm just as willing (actually more willing) to live in a world where abortionists (male and female ones) go to the oven as I am to live in a world with publicly funded abortion clinics.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 10, 2016 12:44 PM  

André Sanchez wrote:No, they aren't wrong. You could argue that, and the extent to which people are willing to rationalize against basic biology (aka, human nature) is cute.
You're not arguing biology, you're arguing sophistry.  It's what you've been doing for all the decades I've been watching this.

You can say that a fetus isn't a baby. That's fine. It's still a human.
This is the distilled quintessence of Right-to-Lie sophistry:  the fallacy of ambiguity between "human" the noun and "human" the adjective.  Human (adjective) blood is not a human (noun).

And if it isn't a baby, then it's something even more vulnerable and special than a baby.
It's something with far less investment than a baby, and only the people directly involved can be trusted to judge whether it's worth the investment to make it into one.

I like the term baby because it reminds people that we have a built-in love for it
You like the term because it lets you try to get people to have warm and fuzzy feelings for things like balls of cells in freezers.  Specifically, other people's balls of cells, which are their business alone and ought to be free of your demands for control.

Trump likely got more votes for promising to turn the tide on the abortion issue than he lost.
Because the specific abortions he was talking about are insignificant, and the middle trusted him not to carry things to the extremes that you (or Cruz, or Bush) would.

The pill is forgivable, and in cases of rape "plan B" is also forgivable.
That is not up to you.

That is, if a woman goes to the police to report the rape, and investigation into the matter does not later reveal that she made it up.
In other words, you want to bring El Salvador's "abortion police" here and throw women in jail for having placenta abruptio.  You want to arrogate tremendous, unchecked power to yourself.  And you wonder why you are so violently opposed....

But let's not kid ourselves, the pill has done great damage to western society.
Not nearly as much as you would.

I'm just as willing (actually more willing) to live in a world where abortionists (male and female ones) go to the oven as I am to live in a world with publicly funded abortion clinics.
If you ever get within reach of the power you want, I'm willing to pick up a gun to stop you.  Mind Your Own Business.

Blogger André Sanchez December 10, 2016 2:23 PM  

I think who I am and am not willing to forgive is certainly up to me. I know nothing about the intricacies of El Salvador's policies on abortion. The one who wants the power to kill with impunity those he regards as inconvenient is you, not me. A fetus is composed of its own cells, it belongs to nobody but itself. The parents are merely the legal guardians.

I do not believe in giving free room and board to convicted murderers; the appropriate punishment is death.

I am not on a crusade to personally right all the wrongs in the world. I'm also no afraid of death. Go ahead, pick as many guns as you want, just remember that a grown man isn't quite as easy to kill as a little baby.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 11, 2016 6:02 PM  

André Sanchez wrote:I think who I am and am not willing to forgive is certainly up to me.
You have no business presuming to forgive anything, or withhold forgiveness.  You are not involved.  It is not your place.  You are arrogating moral authority you do not have.

I know nothing about the intricacies of El Salvador's policies on abortion.
There's nothing intricate about it.  It's a kangaroo court system where the testimony of medical experts is ignored in favor of ideologues.  That kind of system is tailor-made for power-hungry people like you.

The one who wants the power to kill with impunity those he regards as inconvenient is you, not me.
You really are stupid enough to read "only the people directly involved can be trusted to judge" and claim that I want power over anything other than my own personal decisions.  Breathtaking.

A fetus is composed of its own cells, it belongs to nobody but itself.
A heart is composed of its own cells.  It... is nothing without a body to sustain it.

The parents are merely the legal guardians.
This is the exact position of the Marxists, who say that said guardianship must be exercised :"in the interests of the child"... as they define it.  Just like you.

If you're so hot on assuming guardianship over e.g. 8-week fetuses, I'm sure that the families who don't want them will happily deliver physical custody to you as well.  They go their way, you go yours, everybody's happy... oh, wait.  You actually want physical custody of THE WOMAN as well.  No dice, control freak.

Blogger André Sanchez December 11, 2016 6:28 PM  

A fetus isn't a body part, it's a body. A body at a particular stage in its life cycle. You may claim this body isn't a human individual in the metaphysical, spiritual sense, but it is certainly a human individual in the biological sense. You may also claim that individuals do not inherently hold a right to life and that a fetus hasn't acquired that right yet, and therefore, it is legitimate to kill it. But you still can't claim it's part of body, as opposed to an actual body, joined to but distinct from the body of the mother and the father.

I would be perfectly happy to let women have abortions and then go their own way if artificial wombs were to be developed along with a viable method of fetus extraction, thus aborting the pregnancy, not the life of the fetus. Once the fetus is taken care of and in the artificial womb, she can go party or whatever, just as soon as she is sterilized for having proven to be incapable of exercising her reproductive rights responsibly.

Anonymous J. Fred Muggs December 12, 2016 2:52 AM  

Damage a fertilized alligator or bald eagle egg, go to jail for harming an "endangered species." Destroy a human fetus? Will that be cash, check, or credit?

Remember: a fetus is unimportant because it's "just a clump of cells."

And an adult human is also "just a clump of cells," but is important and has rights because... because... someone help me out here... because...

Some of us want to live in a world where human life is important, even, if I may use the term, sacred--not cheapened into "a clump of cells" by the flexible ethics of "doctors" who offer foolish, irresponsible women a way to avoid the consequences of their choices, for a fee.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 15, 2016 12:49 PM  

André Sanchez wrote:A fetus isn't a body part, it's a body. A body at a particular stage in its life cycle.
It's not an individual until it can be separated from the woman.  Further, it won't have any real ability to remember for years (no memory, no sense of self), is unable to survive on food and air without extreme support until rather late (and earlier, not at all), and does not even have the neurological "wiring" to even feel sensations until very late.  Arguably, some of that wiring doesn't start working until some time after birth.

You can call a fetus a body, but it's a body with nobody in it yet.  The ancient Greek word for soul is the same as breath, πνεύμα; the change occurs at birth.  What's important is its potential value as a member of its family and society.  The family is the most intimately involved and its decisions should be generally deferred to.

you still can't claim it's part of body, as opposed to an actual body
So it's an actual body that the woman doesn't need (she'd otherwise function better without it) and acts as a parasite.  Unless another member is good for the family, it's a deadweight loss... and there are many circumstances where the family can't support another member, or that particular member would damage the family.  K-selection, remember?

I would be perfectly happy
It is not other people's job to keep busybodies like you happy.

to let women have abortions and then go their own way if artificial wombs were to be developed along with a viable method of fetus extraction, thus aborting the pregnancy, not the life of the fetus.
You've got your work cut out for you.  Get to it.  Come back when you have something.

Oh, and take on all legal and financial responsibility for the ones you insist on "saving".  Anencephalics will die very quickly anyway, but in the case of Down's, microcephaly, cleft face, spina bifida, Zika-infected... that's going to take a huge load off the taxpayer and put it right on you.  I salute you in advance for your generosity.

J. Fred Muggs wrote:Damage a fertilized alligator or bald eagle egg, go to jail for harming an "endangered species."
The American alligator is no longer an endangered species.  You can buy deep-fried alligator all over the place.

Destroy a human fetus? Will that be cash, check, or credit?
Given the dysgenic breeding patterns of ghettos and barrios we haven't destroyed too many of them, but far too few.  The USA would be much healthier with 4 million Africans-in-America than 40, and zero Mayans, Aztecs, Mixtecs, etc.

Remember: a fetus is unimportant because it's "just a clump of cells."
Wrong.  It is important or unimportant to those responsible for it.  Unless it's yours, that's none of your business.

And an adult human is also "just a clump of cells,"
Normal adult humans are responsible for themselves and their minor children.

Some of us want to live in a world where human life is important
Then you should make certain that the world isn't swamped with it.  India is literally crawling with extremely poor people, and life is correspondingly cheap there.  Don't go the way of India.

Blogger André Sanchez December 15, 2016 5:58 PM  

@74 You're a really boring cuck. You and me are enemies and the whole wide world is closing in around us, squeezing us together. If we live long enough, we'll have to deal with one another. Until then, I have other stuff to get done.

Anonymous Mr. Rational December 15, 2016 10:01 PM  

@75  Insisting that I must devote my family energies to an offspring which is unable to carry on my legacy is literally half as bad as cucking (raising a child of the enemy).

Quit thinking like a religiotard for a minute and ponder the war.  It will be won by numbers * (ability - needs).  A child with zero ability but demands for survival is a liability, not an asset.

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