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Friday, December 23, 2016

The ultimate argument for atheism

Even the formidable vocabulary of John C. Wright struggles to find the words required to address the most cogent argument in defense of atheism ever articulated:
When George Lucas sat down some autumn afternoon out on one of the verandas at Skywalker Ranch and began penning The Phantom Menace, with its two-dimensional characters and pointless plot, no all-powerful god living somewhere in the clouds stopped him.

When the first test footage of Jar Jar Binks surfaced and Lucas said something to the effect of, “Great job, guys. This really fulfills the vision of what I had in mind for this character,” no omnipotent deity struck him dead. There was no lightning from the sky, no sudden cardiac arrest. When we needed God most, he was silent.

He didn’t come to judge Lucas at any point during the travesty that was Episodes I-III. Any good and powerful god would have turned Skywalker Ranch into a smoldering crater where nothing else could ever grow, and yet your god remained silent.

I posit, then, that your “god” is no god at all. Either he was powerful enough to stop the Star Wars prequels from happening and didn’t, meaning he can’t possibly be all-good—or else he wanted the prequels stopped and couldn’t do it, meaning he can’t possibly be all-powerful.
Even the evils of Mao and Stalin and Hitler can be rationally explained by the ruthless pursuit of power. But there is no explanation for the so-called prequels. Free will? Nonsense! Nobody willed that. Natural selection? Even a blind and random process would not have chosen thusly.

It is a conundrum indeed.

Labels: ,

91 Comments:

Blogger Tom Kratman December 23, 2016 2:33 PM  

Oh, jeez, simplicity itself: God didn't send down the lightnings because this Earth is supposed to be a place for testing and learning. If he'd blasted Lucas then we'd all have missed an important lesson and failed of a test.

Blogger frigger611 December 23, 2016 2:34 PM  

Hilarious and spot-on! Thanks for the PHI.101 laugh, I really needed some Christmas cheer!

Blogger Scott Birch December 23, 2016 2:35 PM  

I don't know about the non-existence of God, but these films made this agnostic reconsider his views on the existence of Satan.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 23, 2016 2:39 PM  

Is Rogue One our redemption?

Anonymous WS December 23, 2016 2:40 PM  

Clearly the purpose of the prequels was to set up the sale to Disney, who would start making better films than Lucas. How can you not look at the prequels and how they led to VII and Rogue One, and not see a Watchmaker in action?

Blogger 4thPointOfContact December 23, 2016 2:40 PM  

Or he wanted the prequels to exist, so that atheists would cry out in terror, and suddenly be silenced...except for the sound of tears.

Blogger Tom Kratman December 23, 2016 2:40 PM  

"The wheels of God grind slowly..."

Anonymous Salt December 23, 2016 2:44 PM  

God's sense of humor knows no bounds.

Anonymous trev006 December 23, 2016 2:45 PM  

Okay, casual blasphemy aside, to hell with all the people who called the prequels absurd pseudo-liberal garbage with an abysmal story. As a fable about how a cute diversity puppet ushers in the autocratic rule of an insane geriatric who can't convincingly fake kindness, its only flaw was that it didn't predict Hillary eventually losing to Cyborg Trump.

Of course, I loved the Sith Lord Binks hypothesis, so take it as you will.

Blogger bearspaw December 23, 2016 2:47 PM  

God works in mysterious ways.

Anonymous Smile Of The Shadow December 23, 2016 2:48 PM  

Here I am getting ready for Christmas and now I have to rethink my existence. Thanks.

Blogger l' Américain December 23, 2016 2:49 PM  

Oddly compelling.

Blogger GFR December 23, 2016 2:50 PM  

http://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestudies/articles/theology/why-do-bad-things-happen-to-good-people.html

Anonymous Smile Of The Shadow December 23, 2016 2:50 PM  

WAIT! I HAVE IT

George sold his soul to the devil to make 4-6 and the agreement was to make 1-3 to make good Christians like us DOUBT God's existence.

Anonymous fop December 23, 2016 2:56 PM  

Jar Jar jokes are racism. I am literally shaking right now.

Anonymous Silly but True December 23, 2016 2:58 PM  

RE: Animal Mother,
No. Clearly Rogue One is Paradise.

The woman and black Jesi of the Force Awakens were our Redemption.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab December 23, 2016 3:01 PM  

Tom Kratman,

God could have tested us in a much less painful way. Like global thermonuclear war for instance. Or even limited nuclear war. This was cruel as the Book of Job.

Blogger Tom Kratman December 23, 2016 3:04 PM  

God can seem cruel, of course, Brick, but it's ultimately for our own good.

Blogger VFM #7634 December 23, 2016 3:15 PM  

OTOH, the total raping of Lucas' legacy by J.J. Abrams may be proof there is a God after all.

Blogger Fenris Wulf December 23, 2016 3:20 PM  

Jar Jar is The Mule.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z7jq1uCnNU

Blogger 4thPointOfContact December 23, 2016 3:32 PM  

On a side note, I'm pretty sure R2D2 is a cyborge Sith Lord. The little bastard has been a key plot device for 7 movies now.

Blogger JJ from AZ December 23, 2016 3:36 PM  

I beg to differ.. There is no universe, untainted by the hand of Evil, or that of Light, wherein Episode IV and V could have possibly evolved into into Jar Jar Binks. The forces of an evil will were there, for everyone to see, beginning on the Moons of Endor and culminating in JJ Abrams. It's not too late, Rogue One represents a turn to the Light, let's hope it continues.

Blogger Ken Prescott December 23, 2016 3:39 PM  

Evidence for God's existence and His Divinely Warped Sense of Humor: Anthony Wiener's dick pics ended up saving the Republic.

Blogger Cinco December 23, 2016 3:44 PM  

Remember, The Clone Wars could have been Braveheart with light sabers. But no...

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 23, 2016 3:49 PM  

The god that is most generally and passionately disbelieved in, is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

That's the god that Atheists always have in mind when they starting whining, "where is the evidence, for the existence of God?"

It should be noted however Loki would have been totally cool with Lucas' creative process.

But then Loki isn't the god they disbelieve in, now is he?

Anonymous p-dawg December 23, 2016 3:54 PM  

Obviously, the new Star Wars movies are a judgment from the Creator, on the order of the Great Flood, only worse.

Anonymous BBGKB December 23, 2016 3:55 PM  

But there is no explanation for the so-called prequels. Free will? Nonsense! Nobody willed that. Natural selection? Even a blind and random process would not have chosen thusly.It is a conundrum indeed.

I blame the Whorey Hosts of The learned Elders of Wye

Remember, The Clone Wars could have been Braveheart with light sabers. But no...

JJ Abrams said after getting complaints about the sith crusaders cross light saber the next movie would have 2 lesbians fighting with light scissors.

Blogger Servant December 23, 2016 3:56 PM  

Further evidence:

All sith lords had really stupid names, leading them to over compensate and turn evil and take on cool edgy names.

Annie -> Vader
Palpatine -> Sirius
Dooku -> Tyrannosaurus
Jar Jar-> ???

Blogger Servant December 23, 2016 3:58 PM  

Sidious

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 23, 2016 4:02 PM  

4. Stg58/Animal Mother

Mommy? Why is the funny robot DEEEEEEEEAD!?!?!?

Blogger Cataline Sergius December 23, 2016 4:07 PM  

Behold the yellow and black source of George Lucas' creative genius.

Blogger Wanderer December 23, 2016 4:13 PM  

2 Corinthians 4:4 states clearly that Satan is the god of this world.

Blogger Mighty Lou December 23, 2016 4:14 PM  

Perhaps Lucas has been using the Star Wars trilogies as sort of time capsule where they act as reflections-recordings, and even commentary on the times in which they were made.

When looked at that way, the prequels make sense and even more so do the more recent Star Wars films, for those more than the rest really illustrate my point that Star Wars are a mirror of our society in those particular points in time.

It may be safe to say that change took a bit longer leading up to the prequels, but change has been happening at a quite a rapid pace during the past ten years or so.

Anonymous Glass Darkly December 23, 2016 4:25 PM  

Wheels within wheels...

Blogger Servant December 23, 2016 4:27 PM  

Sidious

Blogger Servant December 23, 2016 4:27 PM  

Further evidence:

All sith lords had really stupid names, leading them to over compensate and turn evil and take on cool edgy names.

Annie -> Vader
Palpatine -> Sirius
Dooku -> Tyrannosaurus
Jar Jar-> ???

Anonymous Rolf December 23, 2016 4:35 PM  

Hey, something has to be the punchline, and popular references are more easily understood than obscure ones. And "those whom the gods would destroy they first make rediculous." (if it's not a famous quote, it should be). God's humor is obscure, after all.

But don't worry. I have a good Star Wars robot reference planned for Cosmic Arena, the last (I expect) in the TSCB series. (Now being written concurrently with the sequel to the sequel.) I'm even fairly certain it won't get me sued, but it WILL get more than a few laughs.

Blogger William Hudson December 23, 2016 4:39 PM  

Regarding Atheism, let me see if I have this straight.

In the beginning, there was this HUGE hunk of shit. We don't know what kind of shit, or how much shit, but there it WAS.

Somehow, the Shit BLEW UP! We're not sure exactly when, where, or how, but we KNOW it blew up.

It seems to have created little pieces of shit, and other pieces of Not-shit.

For aeons, the shit has always managed to get in the way of, and cause trouble for the Not-shit.

When the Universe ENDS, in either a mocrocosmically compressed atom of shit/Not-shit, or another HUGE shitsplosion, we can then chalk this up to . . . (wait for it) . . .




SHIT HAPPENS!

Have I got it right, non-theologically-oriented sapients?

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club December 23, 2016 4:44 PM  

But there is no explanation for the so-called prequels. Free will? Nonsense! Nobody willed that. Natural selection? Even a blind and random process would not have chosen thusly. It is a conundrum indeed.

Mammon?

George's bid for an Obama-like legacy?

Spergy demands for more action figures of tertiary characters to leave in the box forever?

Blogger totenhenchen December 23, 2016 4:48 PM  

Meesa triggered!

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 23, 2016 5:03 PM  

Mighty Lou @33 -- you're being way to charitable. There's no redeeming the prequels. Mr. Plinkett infamously breaks it down here:

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/

Anonymous SaltHarvest December 23, 2016 5:11 PM  

Jar Jar Binks serves as a litmus test for people who lean towards the dark side, in that universe or this one.

Blogger Dave December 23, 2016 5:11 PM  

Ex-atheist? reviews the year 2016 in Stefan Molyneux's 5hr Christmas Spectacular: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fj9jm6tqrY (VD starts @ 26:17)

Anonymous BBGKB December 23, 2016 5:15 PM  

Here is the link for the next Star Wars Light Scissor Battle https://www.lewrockwell.com/political-theatre/together-huma-hillary/

Blogger pdwalker December 23, 2016 5:18 PM  

*laugh* you guy's are killing me here.

Blogger synp December 23, 2016 5:19 PM  

Even the evils of Mao and Stalin and Hitler can be rationally explained by the ruthless pursuit of power.

No, no, no. Mao, Stalin, and Hitler are divine punishment to the world for allowing the Jews to lapse in their observation of the Torah. Hassidic kids are actually taught that. Luckily for their rabbis, the Hassidic kids did not watch the prequels, because they would be hard pressed to explain why the world deserved that.

Blogger Desillusionerad December 23, 2016 5:24 PM  

As an Atheist, I must say this is a compelling argument.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 23, 2016 5:25 PM  

Carrie Fischer just had a massive heart attack and is near death, how do you theologians place that in the universe?

Anonymous WaterBoy December 23, 2016 5:27 PM  

Vox :"Free will? Nonsense! Nobody willed that."

Obviously, Darth Lucas himself did.

QED.

Blogger Student in Blue December 23, 2016 5:34 PM  

@37. William Hudson
Regarding Atheism, let me see if I have this straight. [...]

Except The Big Bang Theory was a result of Creationism. Since, y'know, there was a specific point where things *began*. Previously atheists crowed long and hard about a universe without a definite starting point.

But now they try to claim it as proof of atheism somehow. Odd, that.

Blogger SirHamster December 23, 2016 5:40 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:But now they try to claim it as proof of atheism somehow. Odd, that.

The inference of a beginning point to our universe is evidence that Science Roolz! Also that the Christian religion is ignorant for claiming that the universe was created. But no comment on the religions that believe the universe is eternal and cyclical.

Thus, be an atheist for the logic and reason. Why won't you acknowledge all the proof?

Anonymous Han Solo December 23, 2016 5:41 PM  

Princess Leia is dying? Why, God, Why?

Blogger Mighty Lou December 23, 2016 5:44 PM  

@40 a deplorable rubberducky

"you're being way too charitable"

well, it is Christmas

thanks for the link; I will check it out

Anonymous WaterBoy December 23, 2016 6:06 PM  

Student In Blue @49: "Except The Big Bang Theory was a result of Creationism."

Of course it was. After all, it is just a simulation.

Blogger Loyd Jenkins December 23, 2016 7:07 PM  

Genesis 3 says the ground was cursed for Adam's sin. Add to that, the fact that Satan is the god of the air, and the earth. The Prequel Trilogy was inevitable. ;)

Blogger herfsi December 23, 2016 7:11 PM  

@51 h. solo re: Mark Hamill/Luke Skywalker tweeted "as if 2016 couldn't get any worse... sending all our love to @carrieffisher” - using princess leia's heart attack to virtue signal unhappiness w/ the current year - tsk, tsk.

Blogger Derek Kite December 23, 2016 7:28 PM  

If there is a god in heaven video recordings of Hillary's meltdown early morning 9th of November will surface.

In the meantime I'm agnostic.

Blogger sappbe December 23, 2016 7:34 PM  

Nice.

Blogger William Hudson December 23, 2016 7:43 PM  

@53. WaterBoy, interesting link. Thanks. IMHO, though, Neil deGrasse Tyson is no more than a badly-educated, artificially created, Affirmative Action American African (4A) action hero figure for the amusement of the globalist (Luciferian) temporary landlords of our lovely Yahweh provided homeworld.

tl;dr: Neil blows.

Blogger Pseudotsuga December 23, 2016 7:50 PM  

These are not the gods you're looking for...
You can go about your business...

Blogger William Hudson December 23, 2016 7:53 PM  

I, too, would like to add my prayers to those being sent up by the family, friends, and mega-fans of our dear Princess, Carrie Fisher.

Anonymous WaterBoy December 23, 2016 7:53 PM  

Fortunately, NdGT is only the moderator of this panel. The real interesting discussion takes place amongst the participants; the video is embedded and linked on YouTube.

Blogger William Hudson December 23, 2016 8:01 PM  

Because I believe in the Holy Bible's creator god, Jesus the Christ (Logos), I'm not that interested in the old "Simulacron 3" debate.

HOWEVER, because of SirHamster's "ruling science", which has always studied "Life, the Universe & Everything", I am VERY intrigued by the possibilities contained in some of the Holographic Universe theories, as well as those of the Electric Universe (regarding the true nature of stars). If they actually manage to find, and isolate the God Particle (Higgs boson), it will only confirm my belief all the more.

Blogger stevo December 23, 2016 8:04 PM  

Revisiting star wars with my kids. We mock 1-3 mercilessly. So horrible. We are alone in the universe

Anonymous @1n1 December 23, 2016 8:11 PM  

There are different types of fame with their own distinct followings, Lucas couldn't accept that he was to become famous for fiction so he created his interpretation of reality on a timeline long enough to only be realized as complete upon his abdication of it and he left the last pieces unfinished but sure to fall into a matrix of real-time parameters.

Thanks for bringing this conundrum to light. Im sure God would appreciate a more efficient description of our reality. Fiction sophistically expands the notion of the Undistributed Middle fallacy but also has the unsettling aspect of being able to be dissected to translate the authors true meaning of his work into nuanced, more efficient, and timely explanation. IMO this is the greatest fear of a writer who rigorously controls a small amount of creative output to the public.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 23, 2016 8:20 PM  

God gave us the prequels to serve as fodder for some of Mr. Plinkett's best work. The Rifftrax treatments are pretty great too.

Blogger Daniel December 23, 2016 8:40 PM  

Told this to local priest. Missing now. Last seen in sttriper club

Blogger Koanic December 23, 2016 8:52 PM  

Hell needs in-flight movies, same as Delta.

Blogger cavalier973 December 23, 2016 9:03 PM  

God's purpose for the sequels was that the Mr. Plinkett reviews could then be made.

Blogger John rockwell December 23, 2016 9:25 PM  

@Student in Blue

There is the multiverse theory as well as the quantum fluctuation theory to get around the need for a creator.

Although they base quantum fluctuations on the fact that virtual particles appear and disappear out of observable vacuum making vacuum a latent energy state.

More on the quantum fluctuation theory:
http://www.space.com/16281-big-bang-god-intervention-science.html

Anonymous One Deplorable DT December 23, 2016 10:00 PM  

@62 - Because I believe in the Holy Bible's creator god, Jesus the Christ (Logos), I'm not that interested in the old "Simulacron 3" debate.

I don't know. Quantum weirdness, like that observed in the double slit experiment, doesn't seem so weird if the object being tested is neither a particle nor a wave but rather a probability function. One which is only resolved when some other object queries the simulation regarding the test object's state.

This could be a very sophisticated version of The Sims. In which case the player manipulating George Lucas is one twisted son of a....

Blogger 4thPointOfContact December 23, 2016 10:01 PM  

@ John Rockwell,

The problem is that a quantum vacuum is not a state of nothing.

Ad David Albert notes on this argument, "The fact that some arrangements of fields happen to correspond to the existence of particles and some don’t is not a whit more mysterious than the fact that some of the possible arrangements of my fingers happen to correspond to the existence of a fist and some don’t. And the fact that particles can pop in and out of existence, over time, as those fields rearrange themselves, is not a whit more mysterious than the fact that fists can pop in and out of existence, over time, as my fingers rearrange themselves. And none of these poppings . . . amount to anything even remotely in the neighborhood of a creation from nothing.

Krauss is dead wrong and his religious and philosophical critics are absolutely right"

The mulitiverse theory is simply trying to "add more dice" to the ridiculously high probabilities that our universe happened by chance. If you had a poker player draw all 4 aces at a table 20 times, you'd bet he was cheating, and not attribute some fanciful theory that this was just the one universe in an infinite number of universes where that happened, oh well.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT December 23, 2016 10:07 PM  

@71 - The mulitiverse theory is simply trying to "add more dice" to the ridiculously high probabilities that our universe happened by chance.

But it doesn't solve that. Even if there is an infinite multiverse, life could not have happened by chance in THIS universe. It would have had to have been seeded, and guided to its present state, by life not of this universe.

An atheist can argue until his fedora tips that if life evolved somewhere in the multiverse then there is no god. But a being that jumped universes to create life in this one is effectively a "god" no matter how many hairs we split. We would owe our lives to said being, and said being would likely have the power to carry through with any promises of salvation or judgement.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer December 23, 2016 10:23 PM  

If I was going to take God to task about crummy cinema,. Id start with any Steven Seagal movie.

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 23, 2016 10:49 PM  

It is given to all men once to die, and THEN the judgement.

George's judgement lies yet in his future.

As does that of anyone who gives him money after seeing what he did to Darth Vader, in concept one of the most interesting of villains, in actuality a whiny brat who filled Mother Theresa with the desire to torture him for several eternities.

Blogger William Meisheid December 23, 2016 11:45 PM  

Atheists don't speak against Loki as a God because his non-goodness was amply demonstrated by the Hulk when he smashed him to smithereens and said, "puny god!"

Anonymous JAG December 24, 2016 12:23 AM  

John rockwell wrote:@Student in Blue

There is the multiverse theory as well as the quantum fluctuation theory to get around the need for a creator.

Although they base quantum fluctuations on the fact that virtual particles appear and disappear out of observable vacuum making vacuum a latent energy state.


Nonsense. Neither of those "get around" the need for a creator at all. All I have to do to nuke this ridiculous claim is to simply ask why is it that there is an arena in which multiverses and quantum fluctuations can take place.

To try and twist logic and science into claiming proof there is no deity is not science at all, but personal philosophy.

To be required to believe that multiverses and quantum fluctuations just "are" because you've hit a logical dead end requires faith because you certainly cannot prove it.

Not only that, but because time exist then the universe cannot be eternal. Again, for those claiming it is they must explain how to count to infinity. We could never arrive at this point in time (or any time for that matter), because an infinite amount of time would have to occur before now which is absurd.

Anonymous Sgt. Polite December 24, 2016 12:24 AM  

God allowed such crap to exist so we may know true art by comparison. What is bitter or sweet if we can't compare them?

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor December 24, 2016 1:21 AM  

In totally unrelated news, John Wick 2 is going to be released soon.

Anonymous RA December 24, 2016 3:17 AM  

Jar Jar was a disturbance in the force ... so disturbing I could no longer watch Star Wars without being triggered ... aaaaahhhh!
thought I heard a billion voices silenced, nay submerged under Jar Jar's cackling. Wake me up please

Blogger John rockwell December 24, 2016 6:49 AM  

@4thpointofcontact

I don't think the quantum fluctuation theory is about a universe coming out of nothing. But of a latent energy state that existed until quantum fluctuations led to the big bang.

Of course the Atheist I am arguing with did not provide proof that such a state of energy in the vacuum existed prior to the big bang.

Anonymous D. Maul Jr. December 24, 2016 8:23 AM  

They gave us Darth Maul and took him away in the same movie! NOooooooo!

Blogger Freelance Teacher December 24, 2016 8:59 AM  

This is great.

Anonymous Bob Just December 24, 2016 12:04 PM  

"This really fulfills the vision of what I had in mind for this character”

Darth Jar Jar

How Star Wars Revenge Of The Sith Should Have Ended

https://youtu.be/K2ScVx4mRDE?t=2m41s

Hmm. I wonder - Vader played by a white guy but voiced by James Earl Jones, the Emperor played by a white guy, and Jar Jar played by a non-white. I could see some SJW concerns on an anti-redemptive storyline for a non-white.

@76 all folks need to do get around a creator (in this life) is think it so - (basically, elevating self to god-status)

If one reads Genesis 1 and the book of John and then reads about quantum information theory on how information (Word) precedes matter - it makes for some interesting thinking or perhaps "confirmation bias" as Scott Adams would say.

So, I guess Gödel's incompleteness theorems are the "confirmation bias" of his bias against confirmation.

It's called faith for a reason, folks.


If you want to read Gen 1:3 Let there be light and then read about the Breit-Wheeler theory of Light becoming matter - here ya go.

http://phys.org/news/2014-05-scientists-year-quest.html

Blogger cavalier973 December 24, 2016 1:05 PM  

Jar Jar was supposed to be "The Phantom Menace". He was the Sith apprentice trying to get a war started so that Palpatine could take over.

Blogger Cail Corishev December 24, 2016 1:52 PM  

Here's the saddest thing: we keep getting more Star Wars and Star Trek movies, more superhero reboots, more Transformers and other toy-selling sequels -- but we never got "Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League."

Anonymous GeoGeo Lucus December 24, 2016 2:00 PM  

Mesa GeoGeo Lucus....and Mesa approves 'dis message!

Blogger Lionillion December 24, 2016 2:05 PM  

Surely the prequels and Jar Jar proves, not the non-existence of God, but rather the existence of God, his will to punish idolatry, and his sense of humor.

Blogger William Hudson December 24, 2016 10:03 PM  

@87 Good call, Lionillion! I truly believe that God does have a Cosmic sense of humor. However, it is probably only reserved for His children. Hellbound Others need not try to understand it.

Blogger flyingtiger December 26, 2016 12:01 AM  

I have not laughed so hard in a long while. But be careful, someone might think you are serious.

Blogger ZaijiaN December 27, 2016 1:33 PM  

Proof God exists: Slave Leia.

Proof against: Prequels.

Tough one.

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