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Sunday, January 29, 2017

Alt-Right or surrender

This is a trenchant observation that explains the emptiness of civic nationalism and why there is no actual alternative to the Alt-Right anymore. Identity politics are no more a choice than war is a choice once the enemy is marching. It is demographics, and awareness of demographics, that distinguish between identity and ideology, and the post-1965 US demographics no longer permit one to ignore the reality of identity politics:
This is, in the realm of practical politics, why the Buckley crowd is circling the drain as a political force. Way back in the 60’s, they could not bring themselves to challenge the implausible claims by the Left with regards to civil rights. Instead, they picked the losing hand of state’s rights, hoping to avoid facing the Left over the “negro question.” As a result, they ceded the moral high ground to the Left with regards to race and identity. No amount of legal precedent could stand in the way of social justice!

Ever since, the Buckley-ites have had to fight the Left while acknowledging that the Left is their moral superior and the arbiter of civil morality. That’s a battle that can never be won as the other side will simply declare your latest position to be heresy and out of bounds. No matter how logical and right your position, it can never withstand the moral authorities saying it is wrong. That’s why the Left has won every battle in the culture war. They can thunder, “you may have facts, but we have righteousness!”

There’s another problem with what Milo and Sam Harris are saying. Let’s stipulate that identity politics are a bad thing. Is playing that card better or worse than losing to the Left as they relentlessly play the identity politics game? Unless you have a serious mental illness, you have to see that the Left is nothing but identity politics now and they are winning. Just turn on the TV. Just look at the best seller list. The people of the New Religion hate white people, particularly white men and they will not be talked out of it.

The question that faces every man is not “what sort of society do I want for myself and my children?” That’s a lie and it has always been a lie. The question is “What are my choices and how do I achieve my preferred option?” The choice pushed by our betters is a world run by Black Lives Matters and women dressed as vaginas. If the other option is white pride, white nationalism and white supremacy, it is not hard to see how this is going to go.

All of the howling and complaining from the Official Right about the rise of the so-called alt-right is due to the unanswered question from the Milo piece. If the identity politics of the alt-right are bad, what’s the other option? If the answer is submission, which has been the case for the last three decades, at least, then the response is not just going to be “no” it is going to be “hell no!” No amount of moral preening is going to work because that is the thing people are rebelling against. What’s left is what is always what’s left and that’s force.
And that is why I have been saying that the Alt-Right Revolution is inevitable. I'm not trying to talk anyone into it. I'm not proselytizing or preaching. I am observing the historical trends playing out the way they reliably do.

Civic nationalism was stricken and fatally wounded in 1965. It has been bleeding out ever since, and both the conservatives and the New Right are fighting a hopeless battle to prevent not only the people of the Right, but the white nations, from abandoning ideology for identity because that is what they have to do if they, and the Western civilization they created, are going to survive.

There is no real conflict between the Alt-Right and the Alt-Lite. The latter are going to join us in time. It's actually testimony to their human decency that they struggle with accepting the dark reality that the post-1965 demographics have thrust upon us. They are like the nice white people in Iowa who can't understand why people in Texas or California might have any problem with those hard-working Mexicans with their exotic food coming to America in search of a better life. Once a few thousand metaphorical Somalis and Nigerians move into their conceptual neighborhood, they'll not only understand, they'll become even more militant than we are.

Look, merely encountering Somalis at the mall convinced hundreds of thousands of Minnesotans to vote for a Republican presidential candidate that the media called racist. Unless you've grown up in Lutheran Scandihoovia, you can't possibly understand the significance of that. That is the power of identity politics.

"The reality is, if you force everyone to play identity politics, if you insist in pitting whites against blacks, women against men, straights against gays, the reality is you guys are gonna win."
- Milo Yiannopoulos

Precisely. In fact, the only flaw in Milo's analysis is the idea that we have a choice. We don't. This isn't a recent observation on my part, as I specifically warned everyone four years ago that identity politics were, not only inevitable, but already the dominant form of US politics.
US politics are now an identity game.  Democrats have already established that they are the brown, black, and yellow party, so unless Republicans realize that they are, whether they like it or not, the white party, and begin to plan their strategy accordingly, they not only cannot win intentionally, they aren't really even in the game.  It's like watching a rugby team trying to play football without bothering to learn what the rules are. It is long past time for conservatives to realize that one cannot continue to play by centuries-old Anglo-Saxon rules after one permits a large quantity of non-Anglos who neither know nor care about those rules to invade the playing field.  The great irony is that the Republicans of the sort one finds on the Wall Street Journal editorial page, who cling to the outdated notion of a creedal United States, genuinely consider themselves to be pragmatists.

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128 Comments:

Anonymous Icicle January 29, 2017 5:02 AM  

We can't do anything. The media... might call us names.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 5:03 AM  

If the media isn't calling you names, you're not doing it right.

Anonymous VFM0265 January 29, 2017 5:08 AM  

Yup.....grab your flak jackets, Ilk....we must be over the target! If Force is all that's left, then let's bring it. Finding more and more ways to fight this culture war ever day. Thanks, as always, for your continued keen insights, Dread Lord.

Anonymous JAG January 29, 2017 5:16 AM  

Sorta related:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEdKHMCU33w

This is a compilation of people trolling the Shia Lebouf "He Will Not Divide Us!" cam. Some of it is hilarious. This is supposed to be a performance art piece. The best shitlibs performances are when they are trolled mercilessly.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch January 29, 2017 5:19 AM  

Americans have become sociopathic. The Left is doing all they can to villify and justify violence against white men. Many who are unaware of the alt-Right are still lying to themselves about what's happening.

Best case scenario, if America is to stay complete and remain: a leader will have to allow local areas to do their own versions of soft segregation with non-segregated zones. This is to stop white flight. Simultaneously, he must call for the cessation of Diversitykult propaganda.

Without someone making such moves, we will be getting the civil war the Left craves, and we will be witnessing what happened in Castille during the Reconquista. It will, of course, be the Right who builds up their fortified centers.

Blogger Shimshon January 29, 2017 5:21 AM  

Being called names is better than exotic cuisine.

Blogger Shimshon January 29, 2017 5:36 AM  

TL;DR More cowbell!

Blogger Lazarus January 29, 2017 5:59 AM  

Almost exactly the problem Feiglin talks about. As long as Israelis act like colonizers instead of accepting their Jewish identity and claim the land on that basis, the Arabs have the moral authority.

Anonymous Mike January 29, 2017 6:07 AM  

One thing I don't get though -

He says that no amount of facts can win out against moral authority.

Then towards the bottom he says people are rebelling against moral preening and no amount of moralizing will win out against brute facts of life.

I've also a few times seen Vox say we need to win the moral high ground while at the same time mock morality and talk just about winning.

Can someone explain this to me. I'm not denying there is a logic here and I'm sincerely asking what it is, that's all. Thanks.

Blogger Balázs Varga January 29, 2017 6:13 AM  

VD, I'm curious why you think that people will not just surrender as they had done before?

Blogger Nathan January 29, 2017 6:13 AM  

Looks like you and Milo are on a bit of a collision course:

https://www.facebook.com/myiannopoulos/videos/832031163601447/

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/01/26/milo-white-nationalism-is-not-the-answer/

The guy doesn't like being associated with ethnic/racial nationalism. But did the foreword for the book of this guy who....

+Nathan

Blogger synp January 29, 2017 6:18 AM  

Mike wrote:One thing I don't get though -

He says that no amount of facts can win out against moral authority.

Then towards the bottom he says people are rebelling against moral preening and no amount of moralizing will win out against brute facts of life.

I've also a few times seen Vox say we need to win the moral high ground while at the same time mock morality and talk just about winning.

Can someone explain this to me. I'm not denying there is a logic here and I'm sincerely asking what it is, that's all. Thanks.


The moral high ground is subjective. You lose it not by realizing that the other side is objectively more moral than you, but by conceding the point.

The flip side of this is that the other side won't lose the high ground either unless they're somehow convinced. What they will lose is the power to paralyze you and win every argument by default.

Blogger Lazarus January 29, 2017 6:18 AM  

The most amusing paragraph in the piece.

This is reminiscent of recent forays into doubt by big shot intellectuals like Charles Murray, Steven Pinker and Robert Putnam. In all three cases, they work through the case against the prevailing orthodoxy of the blank slate, egalitarianism and multiculturalism, only to be horrified by where it leads. In the case of Murray, he has been trying to atone for the Bell Curve ever since. Pinker now sounds like a raving loon and Putnam chants Progressive pieties to avoid finishing his thought.

There is similar criticism leveled at Orientalist historian Bernard Lewis:

The ironies abound—consider only Lewis’s former uncompromising descriptions of both Communism and Islam as totalitarian ideologies, or the World War I era Armenian massacres as a “terrible holocaust,” i.e., a genocide —now summarily redacted. It is apparent Lewis has fallen quite short of the standard set by his own rhetoric.

Blogger synp January 29, 2017 6:22 AM  

Nathan wrote:The guy doesn't like being associated with ethnic/racial nationalism. But did the foreword for the book of this guy who....

I wish Milo was right. I think Vox would have liked Milo to be right as well.

Blogger Some Dude January 29, 2017 6:26 AM  

(((ACLU))) gets ruling to stop the muslim ban. And they say Jews don't love muslims! The jews are the greatest friends of muslims....

They don't believe in republican or democrat. They don't believe in any nation except their own.

One you accept they play all sides in a fairly mastermind manner in keeping with their prodigious low empathy IQ.

You will see civilisations greatest enemy, just like in Pharaohs time, Caeser's, Ottoman, The Tsars, Castilla and so on are the high IQ berbers. The only schiz race of man to gain high intelligence.

Anonymous simplytimothy January 29, 2017 6:28 AM  

The Google definition of Ideology is straight forward: "a system of ideas and ideals, especially one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
"the ideology of republicanism"
synonyms: beliefs, ideas, ideals, principles, ethics, morals;"

and asserting that nations can only practice ideologies which they are capable of seems non-controversial (unless you are a writer for The NRO )

The infogalactic page does not support my assumption, subsuming the straightforward Google def in multicultural contortions.

"We hold these truths to be self evident " was not directed to all nations.


We will keep the West, they will go home.

Blogger Shimshon January 29, 2017 6:29 AM  

@13 Nathan there's no collision in the making.

“You should be focusing on what unites people and not what drives them apart,” MILO concluded. “You shouldn’t give a shit about skin color, a shit about sexuality… You shouldn’t give a shit about gender, and you should be deeply suspicious of the people who do.”

The statement does baffle, especially as he does give a shit about religion. But unless he's disavowing or condemning anyone, it's not friendly fire.

Blogger Some Dude January 29, 2017 6:29 AM  

The best way to stop the left is realtalk. Talk about black crime, jewish white collar crime, hbd and the attempt to sell blacks to your daughters.

Its a full frontal war. It started with 9-11.

This is where the test of survival comes in. If you are too pussy to even talk openly in a suitable setting (not work or professionally, etc etc), you don't deserve to survive.

Its a shit test of western civilisation writ large. Will famous platonic ideals 'reason' and 'truth' win? Or will the necromancer subdue you to a 1984 slow cooked genocide?

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 6:31 AM  

Looks like you and Milo are on a bit of a collision course

Why would you say that? Were you under the impression that Milo and I were in ideological lockstep? I'm not in ideological lockstep with anyone.

I understand his civic nationalism. I previously shared it. But all civic nationalists will become identity nationalists sooner or later, because demographics is destiny.

Anonymous simplytimothy January 29, 2017 6:32 AM  

note to self: take the time to compose your thoughts on something other than a comment entry form. Your line of thought is nearly unintelligible.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 6:36 AM  

VD, I'm curious why you think that people will not just surrender as they had done before?

They didn't know they were surrendering before. They were deceived.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 6:37 AM  

I've also a few times seen Vox say we need to win the moral high ground while at the same time mock morality and talk just about winning.

I've never said anything about the moral high ground. You are confusing the 4GW concept of "the moral level of war", which concerns the perception of actions, and actual morality.

Blogger Balázs Varga January 29, 2017 6:39 AM  

Thank you for your explanation. Hopefully the President will manage to turn the century old tide.

Anonymous Jay Will January 29, 2017 6:39 AM  

Ask a white liberal type if he is happy living in an 80/20 Muslim UK. If they were honest with their thoughts and feelings they would say no. Years of brainwashing, create an unreconcilable conundrum. They feel they are good people, racists are bad people, the racist thoughts in their head appear. The thought infers their guilt, they immediately shut down. This is a designed psyops. And is still highly effective.

A lot of them get past it by stating it will never happen, but a true multi-culturalist should state that he is happy with that prospect.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 29, 2017 6:48 AM  

Mike wrote:One thing I don't get though -

He says that no amount of facts can win out against moral authority.

Then towards the bottom he says people are rebelling against moral preening and no amount of moralizing will win out against brute facts of life.

I've also a few times seen Vox say we need to win the moral high ground while at the same time mock morality and talk just about winning.

Can someone explain this to me. I'm not denying there is a logic here and I'm sincerely asking what it is, that's all. Thanks.


I don't understand your question. What is the contradiction supposed to be? Winning > morality > facts > feelz, unless you're some kind of pervert that would get off on watching his wife being gang-raped by men of a different tribe. Perhaps sitting in the corner masturbating, and wearing a pink babydoll. Loser.

Anonymous Rocklea January 29, 2017 6:58 AM  

liberal secularism is a suicidal death cult and an evolutionary dead end

Blogger Nathan January 29, 2017 6:59 AM  

Vox,

I was never of the impression you were in ideological lockstep, no. That said, because of my own struggles regarding these issues under discussion (which I know many here would mock, and perhaps rightly so), I wonder how long he might hold out. I understand you and many here are basically convinced that the demographical shift means some violence or war, but I'd like to perhaps entertain the illusion that that won't be necessary everywhere in the West (or even anywhere?) even if reducing immigration and some partitioning might be.

I'll confess a lot of ignorance here about the science regarding race. I will try to read Cuckservative soon and, if memory serves, you addressed some of this in your Irrational Atheist to, which I have access to.

The thing is that I ultimately want to believe that all of the good stuff in the West with values, blessings, etc. is mostly because of Christianity. Further, I want to believe that Christ can overcome conflict, making those who are not alike brothers.

When I read synp say "The moral high ground is subjective. You lose it not by realizing that the other side is objectively more moral than you, but by conceding the point," I want to say: Not according to Romans 1 and Romans 2:14-15... if you do concede, make sure you say "for the sake of argument" first...

When I read "Some Dude" say "This is where the test of survival comes in. If you are too pussy to even talk openly in a suitable setting (not work or professionally, etc etc), you don't deserve to survive" I think maybe I won't survive then. I do want to defend my nation, but I wasn't ready for this.

I assume many of you here would commend the Bible-believing theologians who stood up to Hitler in the 30s (stop! I am *not* wanting to draw some equivalence between what is happening now and what is happening then). Theologians took on Hitler's nationalism and racially-focused worldview theologically. In a document called the "Bethel Confession" (search for it in Google books), they even dealt with the issue of race theologically.

All I am saying here is it is very hard for me to not think about how all of this stuff is or is not related. What a proper theological response is, etc...

Let the mocking ensue... Before that happens I will just insist once again that I do want to listen and learn. I will read whatever ensues and reflect on it deeply, struggle with it, etc.

+Nathan

Anonymous Jay Will January 29, 2017 6:59 AM  

Sam Harris is Jewish first and a thinker 2nd. The reformation of Islam is one of his main points. And it being diluted by white liberalism even if this leads to violence, or neocon war. Global peace may require just another few hundred million more lives to be taken. So close.

You'd think he'd be pro wall, pro Muslim ban. But Harris like all the different humanitarian progs wants the melting pot and Western ideas to resolve Islamic problem. He's more interested in that than saving human lives.

Blogger pyrrhus January 29, 2017 7:01 AM  

I don't see the morality of giving away the country that should belong to your children and grandchildren to a bunch of 3d world grifters and billionaire "citizens of the world." Is it because a fourth rate poem written by a Jew in London was inscribed on a statue originally created for a muslim potentate? As Sailer points out, the Zeroeth Amendment itself was imported by (((them))).

Blogger pyrrhus January 29, 2017 7:04 AM  

@28 Harris and the Buckley crowd simply refused to deal with the fact that tribalism and Islam are both characteristic of genetically low IQ populations, and we aren't going to change either with dialectic.

Blogger Lazarus January 29, 2017 7:15 AM  

London’s Muslim Mayor: Terror Attacks ‘Part And Parcel Of Life In A Big City’

and yet, Tokyo, the largest city in the world has had no terror attacks.

Because it is an Identitarian country:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/224011

Blogger Nathan January 29, 2017 7:26 AM  

All,

pyrrhus said:

"Harris and the Buckley crowd simply refused to deal with the fact that tribalism and Islam are both characteristic of genetically low IQ populations, and we aren't going to change either with dialectic."

OK - it might help me if I were familiar with some of the best books to read regarding race (fully genetic, nature), ethnicity (culture, nurture, in the mix), IQ and civilization. I take it Murray's "Bell Curve" is the good start, but where to go from there? Where to go for good, solid summaries of the science by people who ultimately go further than Murray and essentially determine that race is the most important and perhaps determinative lens for dealing with these issues? Perhaps there are other resources that argue specifically that only places where there are enough high IQ persons are able to attain certain degrees of civilized society?

I can probably find some of these resources with some searching on my own, but I am asking all of you for the best stuff. I understand, given the sensitivity of the topic, if you just give me names of the scientists I need to pay attention to (perhaps the conclusions of many here are left unsaid in the book literature and a lot of this has to do with connecting a lot of dots).

+Nathan

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 7:27 AM  

I'd like to perhaps entertain the illusion that that won't be necessary everywhere in the West (or even anywhere?) even if reducing immigration and some partitioning might be.

Entertain it if you like. It remains an illusion. The USA has just endured the largest invasion in human history. It WILL end in blood. It always does. Do you know why the Danish immigrants left little genetic trace in Great Britain? Because more than a million of them, and their descendants, were slaughtered in the Harrowing of the North and other massacres.

The thing is that I ultimately want to believe that all of the good stuff in the West with values, blessings, etc. is mostly because of Christianity. Further, I want to believe that Christ can overcome conflict, making those who are not alike brothers.

When, in the history of Christianity on this planet, has that ever been the case? Men may be brothers in Christ, but still belong to different nations, with different allegiances. Do you think that men and women who are Christians cease to be men and women too? Shall a Christian man marry a Christian man because there is no longer male or female in Christ?

Your logic is inconsistent and incoherent.

Anonymous Eduardo January 29, 2017 7:29 AM  

Actually it is Because Japanese actually deem their culture important.

Unlike the Secular Europe that got rid of European Culture (in their minds).

Why would they stop people from outside to explode their country if their country means as much as the shit they did in the toilet in this morning?

Rejoice, we all pay for our stupidity somehow.

Anonymous Jay Will January 29, 2017 7:31 AM  

@ pyrrhus

A part of the problem.

However the childishness in his and Pinkers (literally wont spell Trumps name out) response to the God Emperors rise doesnt suggest great dialectical minds. If they seriously believed dialectical engagement with Islam could work why do they and their liberal friends engage in childish insults about Trump, Brexit etc?

They don't engage dialectically with us, they ignore Vox day and do the very "othering" that Jews tell us made Hitler happen. They are full of shit.

Anonymous VFMUltra January 29, 2017 7:35 AM  

Here is the problem; the only way the US and western civilization survives intact as a multiracial entity is if non-whites return to 2nd (and 3rd) class citizen status. This is the problem no one has so far been able to fully grasp consciously, only sub-consciously. What we have currently on one side of the Right spectrum are those who believe the only way forward is to remove all non-whites from our societies, while on the other side of the spectrum we have those who believe our current racial makeup is sustainable as long as we create and pass perfectly written laws and elect perfect people to interpret those laws to keep society from degradation. Both ways are equally unrealistic and it quickly becomes evident why. So then, once the conclusion is reached that they have to go back (to lower class status) the realization sets in that, though more realistic than what either end of the Right spectrum believes, this correct way isn't without its own problems to achieve. For one, it can't be had without violence because the brown genie won't go back into the bottle without it (albeit with less violence than the 100% purge scenario). Two, it neglects the fact that certain subset of whites are as detrimental to society as the lower classes they are in league with, so they too would have to be dealt with as well (likely through violence also if it were to work). Three, a set of laws must be created to prevent current conditions from happening again and those would have to be self-imposed by ruling whites, i.e. your child decides they want to get Blacked, they are demoted to lower class status and who their parents are can have no bearing. This has proven difficult in the past.

The primary problem as I see it is we are beset by a generation of whites who are completely adverse to committing violence for any cause, possibly even in self-defense. This has to change.

Blogger Lucas January 29, 2017 7:36 AM  

Dayum! Four years ago I'd look at the "white nationalism is dead" mantra with unwillingly nods. Burt now, I see it will happen and is happening.

The White has no choice. He may not want war but war wants him.

Blogger Stilicho January 29, 2017 7:44 AM  

That sense of relief the Dread Ilk feel when contemplating the rise of the alt right is the result of having a political movement that aligns with reality rather than wishful thinking for the first time in our lives.

As for Milo, he needs a tolerant society. Eventually he will realize that a multicultural society cannot be a tolerant society unless the tolerance is imposed. By force. Of course, such imposition is liable to have a short shelf life and a violent end.

Blogger John timken January 29, 2017 7:47 AM  

I still enjoy Milo's presentations, but I did note during his latest New Mexico talk he referred disparagingly to, "the white supremacist alt right".
Is he drifting away?

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 7:48 AM  

Both ways are equally unrealistic and it quickly becomes evident why.

You're completely wrong. You're simply avoiding confrontation with the historical norms. Understandably, because they are ghastly. But it is stupid - seriously, very stupid - to claim that the normal historical outcome is "unrealistic".

Anonymous Mike January 29, 2017 7:50 AM  

Ok, thanks for the clarifications - so the moral level, not morality, pertains to the morale of your own troops and destroying it in your enemies, through manipulating perceptions. Nothing to do with morality. Thanks.

Nathan - no one here cares about actual Christian precepts about how to live and act. Christianity is of interest because its seen as distinctively Western and the basis for Western civ, not as a moral code. In other words its about identity and tribalism and not morality or religion. Its a badge. It could have been anything else, its just that the West has traditionally been Christian, so it has to be that. Quoting scripture is irrelevant.

Defeating your enemies and "winning" is not exactly a Christian virtue, but its a virtue here.

As much as we might not like it, I think we have to admit that Vox is quite correct in his analysis of what it takes to win and defeat enemies, which is why Christianity enjoins not to be concerned with worldly victory and success. Christ knew what it takes to win in a fallen world ruled by the devil as well a Vox does, or even better, and he understood how its utterly incompatible with morality and spirituality.

But I think we have to be utterly firm and honest about the fact that Vox is right about the tactics needed for worldly success, and that too much worldly success can never be a Christian goal.

It's really a choice - worldly success or Christ. But confusing the issue and pretending that we can "win" using Christian methods is just dishonest.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 7:50 AM  

I still enjoy Milo's presentations, but I did note during his latest New Mexico talk he referred disparagingly to, "the white supremacist alt right". Is he drifting away?

From what? He's never been a 14/88er. Remember, Milo describes four different elements to the Alt-Right. Why would you assume that he is referring to the entire Alt-Right there? The adjective modifies the noun.

I am Alt-Right. And I am neither entirely white nor am I a white supremacist.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 7:53 AM  

It's really a choice - worldly success or Christ.

It's not a choice. Most people are not choosing between political action and missionary work. There is nothing incompatible between defending your nation and supporting missionary work to your own and other nations. They are simply two different things.

But confusing the issue and pretending that we can "win" using Christian methods is just dishonest.

This is true.

Blogger Nathan January 29, 2017 8:03 AM  

Vox,

Thank you for your continual schooling. : )

As best I can tell than, eventually, as long as people are not significantly sick of a season of war, the "white" tribe might be liable to revert back to its more blood-specific ties, i.e. the various European nations.

Thinking of all this is no fun.

Speaking of which, looking at pages 212-214 in your Irrational Atheist now. Harrowing stuff, especially when you consider it side by side with the issues being discussed here. The big challenge for the greater population at large, I think, has to be that right now, people inevitably see ethnic/racial nationalism (at least as regards white Europeans) as equaling ethic/racial superiority (e.g. since my group is smarter than yours and can build better societies than yours, this makes us of more intrinsic worth, ultimately). The "human race" becoming suspect...an open question.

As I wrote in my "Liberal Christian Nationalist" post though, Christians, unlike the world (even temporary allies) can ultimately believe that "If those sharing common genetics are found to possess greater intelligence, artistic ability, strength, beauty – or any other particular quality or combination of qualities – this does not mean they are intrinsically superior in value. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. In like fashion, good parents and other family members will not even show less love to a child who has a severe disability or, less seriously, lacks other desired qualities."

There are others who could not believe that. Life unworthy of life and such.

+Nathan

+Nathan

Blogger Nathan January 29, 2017 8:13 AM  

Mike #41,

"no one here cares about actual Christian precepts about how to live and act. Christianity is of interest because its seen as distinctively Western and the basis for Western civ, not as a moral code."

They they are either tremendously ungrateful for what God has blessed them with, through Christians, or they are tremendously ignorant. See Mangalwadi's "The Book That Made Your World".

"It's really a choice - worldly success or Christ. But confusing the issue and pretending that we can "win" using Christian methods is just dishonest."

I understand what you are saying. Faithfulness to Christ is absolutely no guarantee that things will go well for you in the world. That said, first, there is nothing un-Christian about defending by force your family and kin ("turn the other cheek" is a tactic, not a command to let the intruder rape my wife). Second, I just want everyone to bow to the real God-Emperor, thinking it will likely help some here (its all we have really), even as I know I need to ultimately look forward to the life to come (Christ said that in the end "the love of many will grow cold" and "will the [Son of Man] find faith on earth"?

+Nathan

Anonymous VFMUltra January 29, 2017 8:21 AM  

If an immediate 100% purge is the ONLY way, then the outcome will be disaster. Who goes first? If the US pursued such a course, it would instantly unite a majority of nations against it, possibly leading to war in short order. If some other nation were to implement such policies, even our current congressional makeup would likely impose sanctions, leading to attempts at destabilization of the acting nation.

And then to address another problem. If a pure white nation is to be achieved tomorrow, what of those of non-Anglo backgrounds? I witnessed many debates on what constitutes "white". Are Slavs white? Are the Irish white? Are Spaniards white? If what constitutes white is defined as of Anglo decent, then the pool of possible supporters shrinks and the pool of dissenters increases.

And what of those of mixed Anglo blood? Who gets to define what proportion gets you what societal tier? Actual Anglos are currently more cucked than their bastard American cousins? Is this what constitutes the supreme white race? Same goes for Germany.

I am not avoiding confrontation with historical norms, I am suggesting that returning to those norms may take as long as it took to displace them. I am thinking of logical first steps that correct our current heading, but I do not believe that correcting the course can instantly returns us to where we came from. That jouney took many years and it will take many years for us to find our way back.

Anonymous Mike January 29, 2017 8:24 AM  

Nathan, you are right that there is nothing un-Christian about defending your home and wife, but I wasn't talking about self-defense. Although even here one can do self-defense in a cruel overly aggressive non-Christian way as well.

Its possible to do self-defense in a Christian way - but to seek power, victory, domination - to "win" in a worldly sense - require far, far more than just self-defense. They require going on the offense and using deceit and guile, dishonesty, and aggression, cruelty, and mockery.

This is just the way the world is, and if you want worldly mastery, this is how you have to play the game - in the history of the world no one has ever become top dog without using these kinds of tactics. Its why Tolstoy said every elite is composed of the worst elements of society. Its why Christianity says this world is presided over the Prince of Darkness. Because to win in this world you must be dark. There is no other way.

Self-defense and becoming top dog are two very different goals.

Which is why self-defense is always fine, but "winning" is not something Christians should try for in the world.

Christianity offers us a very stark and clear choice, but we mustn't fudge the truth.

Vox - I meant the choice is between being top dog in the world, or living a Christian life. You can be Christian and engage in self-defense, but you can't be Christian and achieve supremacy. In fact, that's not even a Christian value.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr January 29, 2017 8:28 AM  

If you look at the history of immigration to the U.S., a 60-year cycle emerges. The valve opens for 30 years, closes for 30 years. It was open between 1835 and 1865. Closed 1865-1895. Open 1895-1925. Closed 1925-1955. Opened in the mid-1950s....and welded open in 1965.

Which is the problem. Had that valve been closed in the mid '80s, the U.S. could have digested the immigrants. The process of assimilation (however slow and imperfect) undertaken.

Now...I think that Trump may be the most generous option. I'd be far more inclined toward a flat immigration ban.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 8:32 AM  

Who goes first? If the US pursued such a course, it would instantly unite a majority of nations against it, possibly leading to war in short order.

No, it won't. No one goes to war with the supreme nuclear power except those who think the supreme nuclear power won't use it.

I am suggesting that returning to those norms may take as long as it took to displace them. I am thinking of logical first steps that correct our current heading, but I do not believe that correcting the course can instantly returns us to where we came from. That jouney took many years and it will take many years for us to find our way back.

Obviously. Why are you under the impression I ever suggested it would be easy, painless, or brief? I have consistently said that the most likely outcome is far worse than nearly anyone can imagine, including me.

Who, in the lead-up to WWI, could have predicted the events of WWI and WWWII? That is the situation we are in, only worse.

Which is why self-defense is always fine, but "winning" is not something Christians should try for in the world.

No one said anything at all about supremacy. Take your self-righteous cuckery elsewhere. You are dishonest, and that is considerably more anti-Christian than winning at something.

Blogger Nathan January 29, 2017 8:33 AM  

Another question that occurs here is this: why, in America, were all the ethnic groups able to basically get along (the civil war was really not an ethnic conflict)? Because of the power of the idea of America? The resources available? The distance between groups possible? Common enemy (indians)? Christianity?

How can we ultimately know what is the key here? Even as, as has been discussed here and in a recent thread, the idea of "white America" is not even really stable....

+Nathan

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 8:38 AM  

Another question that occurs here is this: why, in America, were all the ethnic groups able to basically get along (the civil war was really not an ethnic conflict)?

1. There weren't many different ethnicities.
2. Blacks were slaves and Indians were outside the borders.
3. Lots of space.

Blogger Nathan January 29, 2017 8:39 AM  

I don't think it is non-Christian to win a war, to be "supreme" in this sense. I do think that racial supremacy is odious to Christ though. "What do you have that you have not received?" is how Christians talk.

+Nathan

Anonymous Dan January 29, 2017 8:40 AM  

47. Mike
There was this dragon that terrorized some citizens. At first the offering of sheeps satiated him, afterwards he needed more, he needed virgins to spoil and defile. Them, for some reason out of nowhere this dude came and killed that mother-fucking giant snake on the mother-fucking spot, no negotiation, no nothing.
That dude apparently is one of the greatest symbols of christianity, now ain't that something.

Blogger Arithtoddle January 29, 2017 8:42 AM  

The Churchian mantra of "God is love" will result in the slaughter of many. Read and memorize Psalm 58, remembering it was written by a man who was a foreshadow of Christ himself. Those who would rip the OT from their Bibles will be among the 1st to die. Praise God and pass the ammunition.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch January 29, 2017 8:49 AM  

Okay, two questions, now.

What will happen to all of the blacks?

What should happen to all of the blacks?

Discuss.

Blogger Nate January 29, 2017 8:49 AM  

once racism was redefined by the academic left to mean "only white people, and all white people all the time"... the die was cast.

There was no other way for this to go.

Anonymous Dan January 29, 2017 8:56 AM  

55. Laramie Hirsch
And he returned to Africa, kicked out of America
Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival

Blogger Stilicho January 29, 2017 9:06 AM  

@Mike, what part of we don't care did you fail to grok? Cuck off.

Blogger Nate January 29, 2017 9:10 AM  

'(the civil war was really not an ethnic conflict'

actually it was. The North and the South were settled by very different people. People who, if you look back far enough, have a history of violence against each other. They have very different views on government and its role.

Jefferson himself wrote that he did not think the north and south could get along in a shared system if the system actually had any real central power.

Blogger Arithtoddle January 29, 2017 9:13 AM  

Racial majority is not racial supremacy. The former represents peace and stability, the latter is what happens when there *isn't* a racial majority. The die was cast post-1965, the left just accelerated the pace. Diversity + Proximity = War. Consider it the mother of all market corrections.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 29, 2017 9:28 AM  

I'm not proselytizing or preaching. I am observing the historical trends playing out the way they reliably do.

One of the biggest barriers to understanding, which crops up even here, is how often people don't see the difference between "I think this is going to happen and people should prepare for it" and "I want this to happen and am working to bring it about."

Blogger Laramie Hirsch January 29, 2017 9:32 AM  

@57 Dan

Okay, so you want to fly 42 million black people back to Africa. To which country? Do you honestly think this is a reasonable thing to hope for?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 9:42 AM  

Further, I want to believe that Christ can overcome conflict, making those who are not alike brothers.

Christ makes people brothers when both parties submit to him. No submission, no brotherhood. Most of the world will never submit to him, ergo, most of the world will never experience brotherhood.

Man up and fight. Your personal Christian walk and your civic responsibilities are two different departments of your life. Don't try to jumble them.

Practically, that means on a personal level I will show love to any Muslim friends my children bring home because that's my job. And on a civic level, I'll vote for any politician who promises to have them all removed ASAP. There's no contradiction there.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 29, 2017 9:43 AM  

I'm curious why you think that people will not just surrender as they had done before?

As Vox said, they didn't think they were surrendering. As long as there were nice suburbs with "good schools" (read: schools full of white kids) to move to, it felt like mild retreat, or even a lateral move.

Now, thanks to overreach by the left, whites are starting to realize they won't be allowed to opt out. You could move to the last Mayberry in America, and eventually they'll bring you busloads of neighbors who think your daughters deserve to be raped. You could own the only business in the country that doesn't want to serve gays, and they'll force you to bake a cake.

Retreat isn't an option anymore; it's surrender or fight back.

Blogger ZhukovG January 29, 2017 9:44 AM  

We are in a time of difficult transition for many people. Civic Nationalism is comfortable, until it isn't. Do not be surprised to see someone condemn the Alt-Right in one week and the next have to be talked out of going full Nazi LARPer.

Blogger The Kurgan January 29, 2017 9:52 AM  

But confusing the issue and pretending that we can "win" using Christian methods is just dishonest.
The first crusade was fought by Christians. They won.

The Churchian mantra of "God is love" will result in the slaughter of many

Not if you understand the truth, instead of the Churchian twisting of it.

God IS love. That's a fact.

What both these commentators completely miss is the following:

1. You can be a Christian and you can ALSO march toward your enemies and kill them all with extreme prejudice.

2. You can (and indeed should) certainly make use of all Christian qualities that will help you in this endeavour, such as:
- perseverance in the face of adversity.
- faith in our creator's capacity to forgive us our sins.
- compassion (where it does not affect our ability to win. For example, if there is time and it is logistically feasible, a brief prayer over the corpses of our enemies for their immortal souls) this keeps us sane and allows us to fight longer and harder.
- our duty to fight to protect others is perfectly Christian (in Catholic Christianity this is actually canon law) and defence can be pro-active, it need not be passive or reactive.

3. This is not to say you should ever kill in God's name. That would be a blasphemy. That is the only confusion people have. Don't say Deus Vult.
It is not God that wants the bloodshed.

Say instead the truth: Ego Volo. Gloriam Deus.
Which if you know Latin is a play in words.

I want. Glory to God.
With a full stop in between it is not a blasphemy. The sin of killing is yours. Any glory that might result from your sin though, is only thanks to the grace and glory of God.

So for crusade 2.0: inside yourself, say NOT Deus Vult, but rather: Ego Volo. And Gloriam Deus.


Blogger Buybuydandavis January 29, 2017 9:54 AM  

The alternative to the Alt-White is easy enough, it just depends if Whites can pull it off.

AntiWhite identity poltics in the West would seem absurd on it's face as a winning strategy.

How is playing identity politics against the majority seem like a great tactic? How has it been winning?

Two reasons.

First, there is something wrong with White People. Who else feels guilty for being born? What other group in the world, when it has power, eagerly sets about enforcing its own dhimmi status?

It's understandable why Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics would go along with whites bending over to them. What a deal! If a crazy person keeps giving you money because their crazy voices tell them to do so, wouldn't you go along with it? And what a miracle gift from the heavens, if that crazy person bowing to you actually has to *power* to screw you instead.

The alternative to the AltRight is easy: Whites overcome White Guilt.

When minorities see that happen, I predict their taste for racial strife will dissipate quickly, because it will be an obvious loser, and a potentially existential one.

The second reason that AntiWhite identity politics has been working is the bigger picture. There are people who like to rule, and both the main prize for and main obstacle to that rule is Western Civilization.

Identity politics is just one tactic of the Ruling Reptiles to effect that rule. Increase crime/violence/strife to divide and conquer the peasants. White Guilt is a bonanza for them, as it not only provides the weakness for playing identity politics against Whites, but it makes Whites less likely to defend Western Civilization and their own freedom. White Guilt breeds White surrender and submission.

Immigration is a big tactic for them as well, as it's a lot easier to win elections when you can import voters for your ideology. Fact is, almost any random immigration to Anglosphere countries from other countries will be a drag on liberty. And you can do a lot better with *targeted* immigration.

Identity politics is just a means. As is immigration. The Reptiles don't want to rule Egypt, Somalia, or even Mexico. The big prize is the Western World. I don't see them wanting to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs (though the Left often manages).

White Guilt and the Reptiles are the problem. AntiWhite identity politics would be nothing without them. But the Reptiles are an issue regardless. They are the big picture within the West, not the immigrants they import.

Full out racial violence will build their thrones. Once established, I fully expect them to switch back to White Identity politics.

But I wouldn't take much consolation in the Gulag because the accommodations were White only. Or because the Reptiles made life even more miserable for Blacks.

Beat White Guilt, beat the Ruling Reptiles, and a few extra tan neighbors just are not a big problem.

(For the even larger picture: start counting. Not so many Whites in the world. And less as a percentage all the time. Ethnonationalism without the spread of Western values is a long term loser for Whites.)

Anonymous Dan January 29, 2017 9:55 AM  

62. Laramie Hirsch
I get Vox's theory in which the country splits into different pieces and every race gets its share.
I think it will all depend on the mexicans. The whites are merciful so even if they will kill some blacks they won't try to exterminate them. But the latinos(whichever group) might actually try it. And if they would you might see some blacks running back home to get back in touch with their kang roots.(it's a possibility)

Blogger Dirtnapninja January 29, 2017 9:56 AM  

As long as whites were able to flee from black violence we had peace. We didnt need to fight, since we could simply leave and let the vibrant population rot in its own diversity. But there aren't many places to flee too now. Soon there will be no escape from the hatred and violence of our foes. Then it will be time, at last, to fight.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 29, 2017 10:01 AM  

What will happen to all of the blacks?

Optimistic answer: They manage to carve out one or more fiefdoms for themselves during a general dissolution of the US. (The main reason I see this as unlikely is that their smartest people are busy filling quotas for goodwhites, and may not be interested in leading them. Maybe racial solidarity will bring them back.) From what Nate says about the South, I expect they'll do better there than elsewhere.

Pessimistic answer: many of them are caught in the crossfire of more capable groups and wiped out; the remainder end up basically slaves or a labor caste for Asians, who have no qualms about that sort of thing.

What should happen to all of the blacks?

Sometimes there aren't good answers. What should happen if you're a million dollars in debt and you make a hundred dollars a week? What should happen when you've imported millions of incompatible people and allowed (encouraged?) the conflict and resentment to build for a few centuries?

One difference between Left and Right, and the reason cucks and moderates always see the Left as more moral, is that the Left will never say there's no happy answer. The Left always claims a pleasant solution can be found, if enough people of good will want it badly enough, and cucks and moderates want to believe that too. The Right says, "Sorry, but there's no way out of this burning building except through the fire." They don't like hearing that at all, even when they know it's true.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 10:02 AM  

But the latinos(whichever group) might actually try it.

Might? Look at what they've been doing to each other in Mexico. 60,000 dead in 10 years. And they harbor antipathy for blacks on a level whites simply do not fathom.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 29, 2017 10:03 AM  

Mike, moral in this context is a synonym for legitimate.

If the Jews don't act like they belong in Israel simply because they are Jews and Israel is their land, their arguments for the existence of Israel won't be seen as legitimate.

Blogger Dirtnapninja January 29, 2017 10:05 AM  

Buybuydandavis wrote:

Identity politics is just a means. As is immigration. The Reptiles don't want to rule Egypt, Somalia, or even Mexico. The big prize is the Western World. I don't see them wanting to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs (though the Left often manages).


Our lords and master DO want to rule Egypt. They want to rule *everything*.

A little note from history...the mongols would never have been able to conquer their empire by themselves. What allowed the mongols to build such a vast empire was their conquest of northern china. They used the vast wealth and manpower of northern china to build a global Empire.

Our enemies intend to use a similar strategy...use the barbarian invaders to subjugate the west. Then use the wealth and power of the west to assert themselves on the rest of the world.

Anonymous Henry Havelock January 29, 2017 10:14 AM  

@32 Nathan

The best contemporary research into race is being done at Richard Lynn's Ulster Institute. You can find their publications for sale here: http://www.ulsterinstitute.org/publications.html

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 29, 2017 10:24 AM  

Conservatives always fretting about blacks, what to do, how to do, oh my oh my.

How about Freedom, freedom from blacks, not supremacy just freedom.

Blogger Lazarus January 29, 2017 10:29 AM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:How about Freedom, freedom from blacks, not supremacy just freedom.

You have a dream! (Free at last! Free at last!

Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!)

Blogger Quilp January 29, 2017 10:29 AM  

I am coming around to your way of thinking. Strike that, I'm coming around to reality. I've never been very good at pretending, but Im older than a lot of you so the fantasy the old, credal right has been pounding in my head for so long has taken a long time to be seen for what it is: a lie. But not just a lie, a lie that, if continued, means the destruction of everything I hold dear.

Blogger Buybuydandavis January 29, 2017 10:30 AM  

On Sam Harris, his utilitarianism is the apotheosis of White Guilt.

He is rational enough to see obvious harm, but his utilitarianism always drives him back to State power to enforce his Good.

You have no right to exist for your own sake. For your family's sake. For your tribe's sake. If you have more, Feel Guilty Now, and serve Humanity!

Since Whitey has More, Whitey is the Devil!

Blogger Buybuydandavis January 29, 2017 10:37 AM  

Dirtnapninja wrote:



Our lords and master DO want to rule Egypt. They want to rule *everything*.
...
Our enemies intend to use a similar strategy...use the barbarian invaders to subjugate the west.


My point was that the prize is the West. I agree they'd get around to the whole world eventually if they manage the West. Though the Chinese will have something to say about that.

Also agreed that immigration is a tactic they are using in the Wests. But I don't see them wanting to turn the West into Egypt - they don't want to destroy the prize, they want to keep it shiny for themselves.

Anonymous Vin January 29, 2017 10:40 AM  

Curious what Vox and The Ilk think is the #1 impediment to Alt Rite fellas joining us on the Dark Side.

Ingrained 'muh Constitution' ?
Conditioned repulsion to anything 'racist'?
Churchian pushed altruism?

Blogger Dirtnapninja January 29, 2017 10:41 AM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:Conservatives always fretting about blacks, what to do, how to do, oh my oh my.

How about Freedom, freedom from blacks, not supremacy just freedom.


Theres a meme or slogan in this..

Freedom FOR the blacks is freedom FROM the blacks.

They can have their ethno state, and we will have ours.




Blogger Orville January 29, 2017 10:47 AM  

I don't think it is non-Christian to win a war, to be "supreme" in this sense. I do think that racial supremacy is odious to Christ though. "What do you have that you have not received?" is how Christians talk.

Nathan, I think you are confused about supremacy because of an equalitarian mindset. People aren't created equal, races are not equal. There is even mention of a racial curse from God in the mix, which by objective historical measures still seems to be in effect. Reconsider the truthfulness of equalitarianism and you might see more clearly.

Blogger Escoffier January 29, 2017 10:55 AM  

Nathan wrote:Vox,

I was never of the impression you were in ideological lockstep, no. That said, because of my own struggles regarding these issues under discussion (which I know many here would mock, and perhaps rightly so), I wonder how long he might hold out. I understand you and many here are basically convinced that the demographical shift means some violence or war, but I'd like to perhaps entertain the illusion that that won't be necessary everywhere in the West (or even anywhere?) even if reducing immigration and some partitioning might be.

I'll confess a lot of ignorance here about the science regarding race. I will try to read Cuckservative soon and, if memory serves, you addressed some of this in your Irrational Atheist to, which I have access to.

The thing is that I ultimately want to believe that all of the good stuff in the West with values, blessings, etc. is mostly because of Christianity. Further, I want to believe that Christ can overcome conflict, making those who are not alike brothers.

When I read synp say "The moral high ground is subjective. You lose it not by realizing that the other side is objectively more moral than you, but by conceding the point," I want to say: Not according to Romans 1 and Romans 2:14-15... if you do concede, make sure you say "for the sake of argument" first...

When I read "Some Dude" say "This is where the test of survival comes in. If you are too pussy to even talk openly in a suitable setting (not work or professionally, etc etc), you don't deserve to survive" I think maybe I won't survive then. I do want to defend my nation, but I wasn't ready for this.

I assume many of you here would commend the Bible-believing theologians who stood up to Hitler in the 30s (stop! I am *not* wanting to draw some equivalence between what is happening now and what is happening then). Theologians took on Hitler's nationalism and racially-focused worldview theologically. In a document called the "Bethel Confession" (search for it in Google books), they even dealt with the issue of race theologically.

All I am saying here is it is very hard for me to not think about how all of this stuff is or is not related. What a proper theological response is, etc...

Let the mocking ensue... Before that happens I will just insist once again that I do want to listen and learn. I will read whatever ensues and reflect on it deeply, struggle with it, etc.

+Nathan



Your problem as I see it Nathan is that some Progressivism has crept into your Christianity. Your first challenge should be to return to the true faith and burn out the heresy which is causing you this confusion. The last chapter of Cuckservative is a useful restorative.

Blogger Escoffier January 29, 2017 10:55 AM  

Laramie Hirsch wrote:Okay, two questions, now.

What will happen to all of the blacks?

What should happen to all of the blacks?

Discuss.


Liberia 2

Anonymous VFM #6306 January 29, 2017 10:56 AM  

Heh. Overcome white guilt and the browns will surrender?

Just like they did at Little Big Horn? Just like Haiti?

Stupid illusion.

Blogger Escoffier January 29, 2017 10:57 AM  

Laramie Hirsch wrote:@57 Dan

Okay, so you want to fly 42 million black people back to Africa. To which country? Do you honestly think this is a reasonable thing to hope for?


There are ships you know?

Blogger Escoffier January 29, 2017 10:58 AM  

Nathan wrote:Another question that occurs here is this: why, in America, were all the ethnic groups able to basically get along (the civil war was really not an ethnic conflict)? Because of the power of the idea of America? The resources available? The distance between groups possible? Common enemy (indians)? Christianity?

How can we ultimately know what is the key here? Even as, as has been discussed here and in a recent thread, the idea of "white America" is not even really stable....

+Nathan


You ahould have heard my South Side Irish Grandma go on about the WOPS. Get along, snort!

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 10:59 AM  

I am coming around to your way of thinking. Strike that, I'm coming around to reality.

Precisely. I had to walk the same path myself.

Curious what Vox and The Ilk think is the #1 impediment to Alt Rite fellas joining us on the Dark Side.

Conditioned repulsion to anything 'racist'. This is compounded by personal and family ties to people of other races. It is, understandably, very distressing to think that one might find oneself on the other side from one's spouse, one's friend, one's adoptive child, or one's wife's son.

But we aren't given the ability to draw the lines, or in most cases, even to choose sides. These divisions are not ideological.

Blogger Escoffier January 29, 2017 11:00 AM  

ZhukovG wrote:We are in a time of difficult transition for many people. Civic Nationalism is comfortable, until it isn't. Do not be surprised to see someone condemn the Alt-Right in one week and the next have to be talked out of going full Nazi LARPer.

I keep saying to folk that one of the great ironies of this situation is that for all the names we will be called now, come the disruption, we will be voices of calm and reason and will be hated for that. It is darkly amusing.

Blogger Escoffier January 29, 2017 11:04 AM  

VD wrote:But the latinos(whichever group) might actually try it.

Might? Look at what they've been doing to each other in Mexico. 60,000 dead in 10 years. And they harbor antipathy for blacks on a level whites simply do not fathom.


Mexico? How about L.A.? Latinos have been ethnically cleansing Blacks for at least twenty years. And winning pretty handily to boot!

Anonymous Dan January 29, 2017 11:07 AM  

78. Buybuydandavis
My most wasted 2 hours of this year were spent listening to a podcast with Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris on the meanining of truth. Sam Harris was trying to convince Peterson to accept his version of the materialistic truth so that later he could use that argument to bash Jordan's faith in christianity.
Sam Harris listens to people's arguments on why they're christian(or any other religion) beforehand, then he takes those points and twists them through the use of micro-scenarios until they are completely nulified and if you fall into his trap by agreeing with him he then won the debate.

Anonymous BbigGayKoranBurner January 29, 2017 11:35 AM  

I'm curious why you think that people will not just surrender as they had done before?

There is no where to retreat. Colored vaginas that wouldn't get accepted to RN school if they were White/Asian get a free ride at Harvard MED. Your taxes with put niglets next door via HUD.

I wish Milo was right. I think Vox would have liked Milo to be right as well.

MILO doesn't want to have to live in a black majority area to have black boyfriends, just like Graham Spanier. As far as tadpole-frog I used to think I would never live outside of pizza delivery range.

Two, it neglects the fact that certain subset of whites are as detrimental to society as the lower classes they are in league with, so they too would have to be dealt with as well

I really wanted to post on John Wright's blog about Judo "fighting" Christ for jews article that I personally meet 2 people that bragged about trying to spread AIDS into the blood supply so that STR8 would be infected, in hopes of speeding up research & ask what odds he would place that they were both jewish. That's the sort of question that would could get one banned.

then the outcome will be disaster. Who goes first? If the US pursued such a course, it would instantly unite a majority of nations against it, possibly leading to war in short order.

China Russia & Japan wouldn't care. Are you worried about Pollow & Niggeria?

BURN BABY BURN http://www.westernfreepress.com/2017/01/28/texas-mosque-burns-to-the-ground/

OpenID elijahrhodes January 29, 2017 11:48 AM  

Many on the Alt-RIght need to stop being so pedantic and spergy and realize that this is a very messy situation. America is a demographic clusterfuck at the moment. You can dream about a pure Arian nation all you want, but most of us have friends and family that are not 100% Anglo Saxons. Will we take up arms against our literal brothers?

Mike Enoch is a perfect example. Here is a guy who became an Alt-Right leader, but it turns out he was married to a Jewish woman and hid that fact. My assumption is that his red pilling happened after marrying her. Should a red pill be grounds for divorce? Thus, the type of real-life dilemmas that many of us will face.

I don't know how this will all shake out. But to proclaim Milo an enemy because he's not in lockstep with someone's definition of Alt-Right is stupid. Personally, I'm thoroughly disgusted by his continual references to black cocks in his mouth, but I understand that he is politically useful in a way that I'm not.

I don't know how things are going to shake out and nobody else does, but anyone who takes up a pitchfork in the fight is my friend. Once the battle is won there will be plenty of arguing to do. I see criticisms of Vox all the time from guys in the Alt-Right. It's a form of tedious virtue signaling from those who lack political wisdom or maturigy.

Blogger tz January 29, 2017 12:06 PM  

What Milo missed is contained in his response to the Orlando massacre. He even has a rainbow gun "We Shoot Back" line of clothing.

Milo arguing that we shouldn't do white (patriarchial Christian) identity politics is like him arguing that instead of getting a gun and "we shoot back" he should have a line of rainbow bullet-proof vests which he would look fabulous in, but won't stop a head-shot.

That is the difference. The left is shooting. The Cucks disarm. The alt-lite suggests body armor. The alt-right shoots back.

Blogger michaeloh59 January 29, 2017 12:26 PM  

VD:There is no real conflict between the Alt-Right and the Alt-Lite. The latter are going to join us in time. It's actually testimony to their human decency that they struggle with accepting the dark reality that the post-1965 demographics have thrust upon us. They are like the nice white people in Iowa who can't understand why people in Texas or California might have any problem with those hard-working Mexicans with their exotic food coming to America in search of a better life. Once a few thousand metaphorical Somalis and Nigerians move into their conceptual neighborhood, they'll not only understand, they'll become even more militant than we are.

Exactly. Milo is the nice people whisperer. The alt-right, and especially Vox Day is a heavy lift. If one wants more people making that lift one applauds anyone and anything that creates an easier path for nice people to make it. And one understands that even many of those who will never make it as far as a fully red polled alt-righter will support our political-social movement,much as there are allied yet distinct political parties in Europe.

Regarding your remark about 'metaphorical' Somalis and Nigerians and 'conceptual' neighborhoods:The notion that proximity to diversity red pills lots of gringos is supported by white voting patterns. It seems white naïveté is (or perhaps it's really just Nordic/Scandinavian naïveté) such a mighty force for stupidification that only whites who live near diversity vote in anything close to the racial block voting of other tribes. For instance here in Texas whites typically vote 70% GOP. What I don't follow is your use of 'metaphorical' and 'conceptual'.

Blogger CM January 29, 2017 12:30 PM  

I'm not ready for full frog. I get you don't care and that is fine. From government perspective, civic nationalism makes the most sense when paired with severe restriction of immigration.

I know you are likely right... and at some point, if things aren't corrected, I may not have much choice.

Blogger CM January 29, 2017 12:36 PM  

--VD:There is no real conflict between the Alt-Right and the Alt-Lite. The latter are going to join us in time. It's actually testimony to their human decency that they struggle with accepting the dark reality that the post-1965 demographics have thrust upon us. They are like the nice white people in Iowa who can't understand why people in Texas or California might have any problem with those hard-working Mexicans with their exotic food coming to America in search of a better life. Once a few thousand metaphorical Somalis and Nigerians move into their conceptual neighborhood, they'll not only understand, they'll become even more militant than we are.--

I don't know. Politically, I'm still alt-lite. It isn't that I see no issue with the wide swaths of people we have given citizenship to. Its that, as long as we are operating at a peacable level, I don't care much for the government revoking citizenship status. I don't see much any other way for alt-right to get what they are asking for in a peacable manner.

I'm angry at how careless we have been in creating human rights issues where none need have been if we had exercised more discretion when granting citizenship, so I will fight tooth and nail for immigration reform that favors the alt-right.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 12:48 PM  

Many on the Alt-RIght need to stop being so pedantic and spergy and realize that this is a very messy situation. America is a demographic clusterfuck at the moment. You can dream about a pure Arian nation all you want, but most of us have friends and family that are not 100% Anglo Saxons. Will we take up arms against our literal brothers?

Thank goodness the smartest man in the room has finally arrived!

We already know that. We've already addressed that. FFS, I'm part-Anglo, part American Indian myself, moron. Most of you will be rejected by your friends and families who side against the White Party. You will take up arms against those who take up arms against you.

Brother fought brother when skin color wasn't involved. Why on EARTH would you imagine you won't take up arms against your dark-skinned brother?

Its that, as long as we are operating at a peacable level, I don't care much for the government revoking citizenship status.

That's pretty stupid. You'd rather wait for the violence to arrive than do something to avert it? Just so you can feel better about yourself? That doesn't speak very well for you.

Answer these questions and the essay might make some sense.

The essay does make sense. If you're too slow to understand it, I suggest you ask the author.

Blogger praetorian January 29, 2017 12:53 PM  

Americans have become sociopathic. The Left is doing all they can to villify and justify violence against white men. Many who are unaware of the alt-Right are still lying to themselves about what's happening.

Tumblr left's reaction to the Falcon Punch of Richard Spencer, not the Falcon Punch itself, has been the most telling event of the last week.

Blogger praetorian January 29, 2017 1:07 PM  

Let the mocking ensue... Before that happens I will just insist once again that I do want to listen and learn. I will read whatever ensues and reflect on it deeply, struggle with it, etc.

Stop worrying about that. On the internet everyone gets mocked. It doesn't matter.

As Vox has said, red pilling is a process that we all have to work through. We've all been programmed via cultural marxism, which was designed, explicitly, to take advantage of tactical weaknesses in the Christian West. Their rhetoric is superb (the academy and hollywood, not shit-libs, who are morally incontinent.) It takes time, because the conclusions (and some of the historical reconsiderations) are horrifying and can cost you your job, friends and/or family.

Just keep reading and asking honest questions, and don't worry about being called a cuck or pussy. I bet 90% of us were more cuck'd on many questions at one point than you are now.

Blogger praetorian January 29, 2017 1:11 PM  

Nathan - no one here cares about actual Christian precepts about how to live and act.

(kek)

As Judeo-Christ said: "If a man rapeth your one daughter, do not expel him from your country, but rather turn to him the backside of your other daughter."

Blogger praetorian January 29, 2017 1:18 PM  

Vox - I meant the choice is between being top dog in the world, or living a Christian life. You can be Christian and engage in self-defense, but you can't be Christian and achieve supremacy. In fact, that's not even a Christian value.

You can tell this is true by how Christianity conquered first Rome and then Europe.

And every knee shall bend before the heathen invaders, in the name of the Concern Troll, the Cuck and the Chubby Nice Guy.

OpenID elijahrhodes January 29, 2017 1:19 PM  

You know, Vox, sometimes you can unnecessarily harsh, especially to those like me who have read and supported your site and endeavors for years. Not only is this site among my very favorites, I've read every book you've written except the throne series, I gave copies of SJW and Cucservative to friends and family for Christmas, and I've always looked forward to every one of your interviews by Stefan and others, and more recently to your periscopes. I am an Original Galaxian and a VFM and I've bought swag from you. I know perfectly well what your ethnicity is.

To dismissively call me a moron simply for, best I can tell, defending you and guys like Milo against the Spergy alt-righters like Wallace and the various ones that inevitably post here is more than a little shitty.

Blogger CM January 29, 2017 1:19 PM  

--Its that, as long as we are operating at a peacable level, I don't care much for the government revoking citizenship status.

That's pretty stupid. You'd rather wait for the violence to arrive than do something to avert it? Just so you can feel better about yourself? That doesn't speak very well for you.--

No... its that I think revocation of already given citizenship will escalate to war even faster.

Quite frankly, I ain't ready for that. Since I'm a woman with young kids, I find it sensible to hope that curbing immigration now and restoring our demographics to historic norms would potentially start the long road away from war (at least this is what I thought you were saying up until recently).

Was that your view? Did you change it?

Whether I am right or wrong, I'm on the alt-right's side if war starts. For now, I'm banking on what I perceive a last ditch effort to avoid it.

Anonymous BBGKB January 29, 2017 1:24 PM  

but most of us have friends and family that are not 100% Anglo Saxons. Will we take up arms against our literal brothers?

How many siblings did you have after your mom started to mudshark? Did they ever stand up to other niglets to defend you? Have any of these brothers positively contributed to the family in any way?

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 1:35 PM  

93. elijahrhodes

Will we take up arms against our literal brothers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_against_brother

That's why they call it a civil war. It happened that way in the American Civil War, in Rwanda, Russia 1917, China, the American Revolution, Yugoslavia, and currently in the Ukraine and Syria.

That is almost ALWAYS the way it comes down.

OpenID elijahrhodes January 29, 2017 1:39 PM  

Fuck you BBGKB, there are no mudsharks in my family, and my lineage goes back to the 1600s in New England, and England before that. I am who the founders referred to when they talked of the rights of Englishmen. I'll put my pedigree up against anyone's.

I was referring to the Spergs who demand absolute racial purity before anyone can be called Alt-Right, when things on the ground are significantly more messy. As praetorian noted (as did I) red pilling is a process. And one's past choices are what they are. My entire point is that allies can be found everywhere. Case in point: Milo and Cernavich.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 1:47 PM  

You know, Vox, sometimes you can unnecessarily harsh, especially to those like me who have read and supported your site and endeavors for years.

No doubt. But how on Earth am I supposed to recognize the status of every single person who comments here from time to time. For the most part, I react to the content of the words, not the person who wrote them.

To dismissively call me a moron simply for, best I can tell, defending you and guys like Milo against the Spergy alt-righters like Wallace and the various ones that inevitably post here is more than a little shitty.

Stop whining. That is not a reasonable characterization of your actions. You came in here and announced the obvious while claiming that "Many on the Alt-Right" didn't recognize it, even though literally everyone does. Then you threw around a little rhetoric that ignored every single civil war in the history of Man.

Now, you've read my books. You've read this blog. When have I EVER let that sort of nonsense pass with kid gloves? While I appreciate your support, there is no chance that I am going to change who I am or how I address criticism simply because someone happens to support me. If I didn't soft-pedal it in my debate with Nate, who is literally my first and foremost supporter, why do you expect me to do so with you?

Don't get upset. Get better. It's nothing personal.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 1:49 PM  

My entire point is that allies can be found everywhere. Case in point: Milo and Cernavich.

Your point is correct. Your case in support of it needs work.

Blogger szopen January 29, 2017 1:51 PM  

I wonder what are Boers' political preferences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_National_%28South_Africa%29#2014_general_election_results

Blogger szopen January 29, 2017 1:57 PM  

My point is not that reality counts. The perception of reality counts. If left will succeed in associating alt-right with "non-sexy", then alt-right won't succeed, no matter how many somalis will go around. If alt-right will win in war of memes, then there may not be any somalis around. Reality and truth helps, but sometimes perceptions are more important.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 29, 2017 1:59 PM  

From government perspective, civic nationalism makes the most sense when paired with severe restriction of immigration.

That doesn't make much sense. Civic nationalism says severe restriction of immigration isn't necessary, and may even be counter-productive, because immigrants are good as long as they subscribe to the right civics.

On the other hand, if you severely restrict immigration from the start, you never need much civic nationalism (or it happens automatically), because everyone shares the same culture already.

That's why some of us don't really trust the civic nationalists to stay strong on immigration. They still want to believe there's a way to square that circle, maybe by getting immigrations from the right place, or by stopping/slowing them long enough for the magic of assimilation to happen.

Anonymous Bellator Mortalis January 29, 2017 2:10 PM  

Technology will have an impact. Example: the DNA mappings will enable tailoring viruses to target specific racial groups. And as the technology is now inexpensive enough, we will see gene "hackers" working in their garages and basements weaponizing viruses to target genetic groups.
The counters to these attacks will mainly be used by intelligent people of at least modest wealth. So whites & asians will survive and thrive, but most of the inner city blacks will be wiped out.
(Basic counters: masks, gloves, and quarantining of affected groups.)

Blogger michaeloh59 January 29, 2017 2:29 PM  

'As Judeo-Christ said: "If a man rapeth your one daughter, do not expel him from your country, but rather turn to him the backside of your other daughter."'

Now THAT'S rhetoric!

Blogger rumpole5 January 29, 2017 2:48 PM  

A few points.

Firstly, I think that VD is wrong about the inevitability of significant violence. The American people are more stable than he gives them credit for being. They will react, but it will not be a French revolution type reaction.

Secondly, we have arrived at the present sorry state of affairs because our government officials have abrogated their duties. Their proper role is that described by the apostle Paul in Chapter 13, verse 4 of his letter to the Romans, Viz:

if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

If Trump swings that sword, I believe that things will right themselves.

Finally, perhaps because he was raised in Minnesota, Vox does not consider the capacity that much of the country has to tolerate very different "tribal" groups. Most real Southerners can coexist with native Blacks just fine if outsiders would stop stirring up trouble. I don't think a race war is going to rise between two tribes who have had a much extensive inteaction as have American Blacks and white Southerners. No other single minority group is large and united enough to feed the conflagration that VD seems to anticipate. Moreover, those groups are at each other's throats. Hence, no big upheaval if Trump just turns off the immigrant faucet.

Blogger szopen January 29, 2017 3:47 PM  

@115 rumpole
I think it was evolutionistx in her blog who pointed out that most of people don't like when they stop to know how to operate in an environment. If this is correct, then being raised in high-minority environment does not make you wary of them; rather, being raised in minority-free env. and THEN witnessing this environment changing into minority-heavy one is what makes you really disturbed.

ANother thing: I just thought that the reasons all those guys demonstrate in liberal-heavy cities ismaybe because on animal level, they do not really think Trump HAS supporters? Yes, they see them in TV, they know on rational levels they are millions of Trumpists, but in real life they have no interaction with Trump's supporters. TOlerancy if more often effect of being affraid of the other side employing violence; you resign from violence, and in return the other side resigns from violence too. But if you do not see that other side can muster troops, why resign from the violence? And in liberal cities, street-fighting would be pretty much one-sided, right?

Blogger Sheila4g January 29, 2017 4:47 PM  

@93 elijahrhodes: "Many on the Alt-RIght need to stop being so pedantic and spergy and realize that this is a very messy situation. America is a demographic clusterfuck at the moment. You can dream about a pure Arian nation all you want, but most of us have friends and family that are not 100% Anglo Saxons. Will we take up arms against our literal brothers?"

As Vox noted to you in his reply, it's nothing personal. I understand it's human nature to wonder about where each individual fits, or what if my spouse is X, or my best friend is Y. The point is, right now we're in a fight for survival. I don't spend time worrying about whether I fit the precise genetic or political description to belong to a specific group (not to mention that even amongst those Vox labels Alt White there are numerous and varying opinions regarding just who and how much qualifies as "White"). I believe in the reality of HBD, I believe in the supremacy and innate value of Western Civilization, and I believe in and rely on Christ as my Saviour. I will fight and die for those things, because they are good in and of themselves. How things shake out precisely, no one knows. Obviously I'm concerned about a future for my children, but which subsection of "America" they will fit into is not my primary concern when right now the official line is they need to die as White, Christian men.

Anonymous FP January 29, 2017 5:30 PM  

"To dismissively call me a moron simply for, best I can tell, defending you and guys like Milo against the Spergy alt-righters like Wallace and the various ones that inevitably post here is more than a little shitty."

You expected less? How long have you been reading here? Point to the doll where the Red Man touched you.

@115 "The American people are more stable than he gives them credit for being."

Until society is no longer stable. What happens when the music stops playing? Look at the interview Tucker Carlson had with Hans Gruber on healthcare this last week. Gruber outright says he doesn't care that there are losers who will be bankrupted by his healthcare plan because it supposedly gave insurance to millions.

These people want you dead or as their slaves begging them for bread and "healthcare".

Blogger rumpole5 January 29, 2017 6:47 PM  

Stability is a basic characteristc of most white people in "flyover" country America. We still constitute 78 per cent of the American population. Many whites have cottages, camps and the like where they vacation and hunt and enjoy living offline. Many white hobbyists have experience with small engines, steam engines, electrical circuits, and the like. Thanks to Obama whites are more armed than ever. If the 32 per cent non whites (many of whom voted for Trump anyway) cause problems, those problems will be short lived, and confined to "blue" urban areas that do not impact the white "flyovers" anyway. We are a competent stable people not given to over reaction. If the Liberals try to cause significant problems outside their limited territory they will be dealt with and life will go on smoothly in most of America.

Anonymous Jack January 29, 2017 11:13 PM  

Vox, sometimes your tough-love advice sounds a lot like Jose Maria Escriva. (Comment #108) Ever thought of starting your own secret society - Opus Day?

Blogger Laramie Hirsch January 30, 2017 1:13 AM  

@86 Escoffier

So, you are saying you want to ship the blacks off to a Liberia part 2?

Vox Day just said that the Alt-Right deals with reality, while it is the Alt-Lite that deals in wishful thinking and theory.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 30, 2017 1:43 AM  

I don't see the morality of giving away the country that should belong to your children and grandchildren to a bunch of 3d world grifters and billionaire "citizens of the world." Is it because a fourth rate poem written by a Jew in London was inscribed on a statue originally created for a muslim potentate? As Sailer points out, the Zeroeth Amendment itself was imported by (((them))).

That is the immaculate VP comment. We can all go home now. Our work here is done.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 30, 2017 2:07 AM  

Here is the problem; the only way the US and western civilization survives intact as a multiracial entity is if non-whites return to 2nd (and 3rd) class citizen status.

I concur.

The primary problem as I see it is we are beset by a generation of whites who are completely adverse to committing violence for any cause, possibly even in self-defense. This has to change.

I believe it is only a question of how many pretty young white girls have to be gang-raped by aliens. And then there will be mass murders of exclusive private clubs. Because cause.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 30, 2017 2:52 AM  

I am not avoiding confrontation with historical norms, I am suggesting that returning to those norms may take as long as it took to displace them. I am thinking of logical first steps that correct our current heading, but I do not believe that correcting the course can instantly returns us to where we came from. That jouney took many years and it will take many years for us to find our way back

We need to confront the fact that for Native Europeans to survive, we need to forbid our women to work more than supplemental. Otherwise they will make work instead of babies.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 30, 2017 8:25 AM  

So, you are saying you want to ship the blacks off to a Liberia part 2?

Vox Day just said that the Alt-Right deals with reality,


You asked what should happen to blacks, not what is realistic.

Setting them up with their own nation in Africa probably would be a better outcome than anything that's likely to happen here. They'd be one of the highest-IQ nations on the continent, so they ought to be able to defend themselves from their neighbors and make better use of the local resources than any of them. They could become an economic powerhouse of Africa, relatively speaking -- assuming they can keep the Chinese from ruling them.

I agree with you that that's not realistic, though.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch January 30, 2017 9:53 AM  

Do I really need to qualify the question to that extent?

What should realistically happen to the blacks on the North American continent?

Blogger Cail Corishev January 30, 2017 12:44 PM  

My point was that "should realistically" doesn't makes sense. None of the "realistic" outcomes are what anyone thinks "should" happen, as far as I can tell.

Blogger JP January 30, 2017 8:29 PM  

Ah, but the problem is that people who are prepared often want to get the unpleasantness over with. It's why the Germans in WW1 called the invasion "Der Tag", because it was the day that they had been practicing for to finally get the French to stop imposing on their turf. The reaction to war is often a mix of excitement, elation, and horror.

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