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Saturday, January 07, 2017

Build. The. Wall.

The House Republicans get on board with alacrity, after having the God-Emperor Ascendant put the fear of himself into them.
Republicans on Capitol Hill say they don’t need to wait for Mexico to make good on President-elect Donald Trump’s central campaign promise: building a southern border wall.

In fact, they are happy to underwrite the wall themselves, at a potential cost of many billions of dollars.

The GOP’s willingness to fund Trump’s border wall with taxpayer money could put the party’s deeply held desire to rein in government spending in conflict with its long-standing goal of cracking down on illegal immigration and toughening border security. Nonetheless, many Republicans do not see an inherent conflict.

“It would be a proposal that would cost billions of dollars to get done, but if it’s an appropriate priority for our country, it’s worth spending that kind of money,” said Rep. Luke Messer (R-Ind.), chairman of the House Republican Policy Committee.
It's more pathetic than amusing to see the media affect to be concerned about the federal government spending between $8 and 20 billion on shutting down illegal immigration from Central and South America after they were cheerleading Obama's $787 billion in economic stimulus.

The irony is that there will arguably be more genuine economic stimulus created by building the wall than there was from Obama's vastly larger income redistribution efforts.

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119 Comments:

Anonymous Rocklea January 07, 2017 8:12 AM  

I really do hope mexico pays for it, I $10 riding on that.

Blogger Salt January 07, 2017 8:13 AM  

I've seen a few bitching that Mexico isn't paying for the wall. With sufficient jobs and money repatriating home, Mexico's payment is in the form of a loss. Chuck enough immigrants back into Mexico and I'll concede a win by Mexico on that score. Increasing Mexico's population is good for their economy, right?

Anonymous Rocklea January 07, 2017 8:17 AM  

I think I will need a detailed flow chart to get that ten dollars.

Anonymous Mark Auld January 07, 2017 8:18 AM  

The Trump train is already leaving the station,let's see how many R's jump on or Chase it down the tracks.

Blogger Franz Lyonheart January 07, 2017 8:19 AM  

I was under the impression all along that US federal taxes would pay for the wall, Congress would tally the cost, and then just subtract the resulting figure from any US financial support granted Mexico. Simple.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 07, 2017 8:20 AM  

Or justburdensome taxes in private remittances frim illegals to their home country.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 07, 2017 8:21 AM  

On*

Anonymous Michael Maier January 07, 2017 8:37 AM  

Increasing Mexico's population is good for their economy, right?

"Illegals damage our country by coming here."
"No, they enrich us by coming here, you bigot!"
"Whoa, you're right! So they should stay in Mexico so they enrich Mexico because they're so much poorer than us. It's just wrong for us to take what would enrich them."
"No, wait...."
"So wait, why DO you hate Mexico so much?"

Blogger Johnny January 07, 2017 8:45 AM  

By my lights the spending was always a fake issue, and Trump it would appear is going to fund it by means even more obvious than I expected.

Prediction two is that Trump is a spender, or covertly achieve the same outcome with tax cuts. He is only nominally a conservative in that he is a nationalist and the other side has gone internationalist.

Anonymous Rocklea January 07, 2017 8:47 AM  

"The irony is that there will arguably be more genuine economic stimulus created by building the wall than there was from Obama's vastly larger income redistribution efforts."

I heard an interesting caller on Stefan's call in show the other day. He was from Sydney, doing his Masters on economics I think. His theory(not just his I think) was that their is correlation between government surplus and depression/rescesion. Basically because a surplus amounts to the destruction of money supply, trade deficit will exacerbate this further. Obama's welfare resditrubution increased the trade deficit as well the national debt. If Trump can increase productive spending, while at the same time start reversing the trade deficit, a bigger national debt won't be a problem.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 07, 2017 8:49 AM  

If the spending improves the economy, and cuts the various welfare rolls, then it will be a win.

Blogger rumpole5 January 07, 2017 8:56 AM  

A stiff tax on remittances and small express packages to American Hispania would pay for the wall easily

Anonymous Be Deplorable, Not Afraid January 07, 2017 8:58 AM  

If PE Trump manages to get that wall built over the efforts of the Dems, bureaucrats, and GOPe cucks, he will have truly earned the title of God Emperor.

Blogger rumpole5 January 07, 2017 9:01 AM  

I am married to an expatiate from the Cayman Islands. The money flow is always from the USA to points south.

Blogger Makeshift January 07, 2017 9:03 AM  

Other than being a good talking point, does building a wall actually do anything? Why not just deport, e verify, and restrict welfare to citizens?

Blogger Cail Corishev January 07, 2017 9:07 AM  

I've seen a few bitching that Mexico isn't paying for the wall.

They're either joking ironically, or it's a last-ditch attempt to discourage Trump supporters by claiming he's not doing something that was rhetoric in the first place. The haters don't have much to work with these days.

Although I don't think you'd find many still willing to bet real money that Mexico won't end up paying for it somehow.

Anonymous Oreo January 07, 2017 9:08 AM  

Of course Mexico won't pay for a wall. That would be a campaign promise kept.

Blogger James Dixon January 07, 2017 9:12 AM  

> The irony is that there will arguably be more genuine economic stimulus created by building the wall than there was from Obama's vastly larger income redistribution efforts.

The left never has gotten the idea of how economic stimulus actually works. They keep thinking the government has to spend more money to stimulate the economy. When it's been proven time and again that all they actually have to do is let people keep more of their own money, and that their spending money is actually counterproductive.

> I really do hope mexico pays for it, I $10 riding on that.

Don't worry, they will. One way or another.

Anonymous patrick kelly January 07, 2017 9:15 AM  

Yes I would prefer he find a way to divert from the wall to deportation and cutting free stuff for immigrants

Blogger Cail Corishev January 07, 2017 9:17 AM  

Other than being a good talking point, does building a wall actually do anything?

Yes.

Why not just deport, e verify, and restrict welfare to citizens?

We need to do those things too, plus enforce massive penalties on corporations hiring illegals. Anything else you'd like to put on the list?

OpenID elijahrhodes January 07, 2017 9:18 AM  

With all the money the US spends in foreign aid we could pay for a wall completely surrounding the US. Twice. With a moat. And gondola rides. And lasers.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr January 07, 2017 9:20 AM  

Taxing remittances is the obvious way to pay for the wall. But I expect there will be another effect - the obvious way to obstruct it would be some sort of legal action to block construction, probably on environmental grounds. Which will justify a change in those laws that has been long overdue.

Blogger Orville January 07, 2017 9:24 AM  

@9 Prediction two is that Trump is a spender, or covertly achieve the same outcome with tax cuts. He is only nominally a conservative in that he is a nationalist and the other side has gone internationalist.

Feature, not a bug. At this point spending is a moot point as we've already crossed the debt event horizon. Best to clear out the riff-raff before the big debt purge. Follow me on Gab @BestToolsForMen

Blogger Sherwood family January 07, 2017 9:27 AM  

U.S. spends about $35 billion in foreign aid annually. So yes, he can build the wall for the cost of foreign aid. If Trumps takes foreign aid for two years he can probably do both borders just to be safe.

OpenID elijahrhodes January 07, 2017 9:27 AM  

The problem of illegals could be solved in one day, without a wall, by making hiring an illegal a felony with mandatory prison time and hefty rewards to whistleblowers.

People (especially on the left) act like illegal immigration is a phenomenally complex problem. It's a rather simple one, the solution of which only requires men with chests.

Blogger Dave January 07, 2017 9:28 AM  

Makeshift wrote:Other than being a good talking point, does building a wall actually do anything? Why not just deport, e verify, and restrict welfare to citizens?

Obama's building a wall at his new residence in DC. Does that wall actually do anything? Ask him.

Blogger Sherwood family January 07, 2017 9:30 AM  

If you want to look at foreign military aid as a percentage of foreign aid it is about 17%. If you look at where that money goes you have to start asking yourself questions about why. The following CNN link (I know, okay!) has a good visualization of foreign military aid and where it goes.

Blogger Sherwood family January 07, 2017 9:31 AM  

Here's the link. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/11/politics/us-foreign-aid-report/

Blogger Cail Corishev January 07, 2017 9:32 AM  

Since 9/11, over 1 trillion dollars has been spent on homeland security, according to the Economist. That's $400M per mile of Wall. People who say we can't afford it are innumerate, have never built anything bigger than a sandcastle, and/or are lying.

Blogger Johnny January 07, 2017 9:33 AM  

Other than being a good talking point, does building a wall actually do anything? Why not just deport, e verify, and restrict welfare to citizens?

The best evidence that walls work is how frequently they are built. Chain link fence best suited to keeping out people is routinely sold to all sorts of people. I think Hungary is building a wall, Obama is building a wall, and my local lumber yard has a wall, etc..

If the spending improves the economy, and cuts the various welfare rolls, then it will be a win.

The problem is that the improving economy does not wholly cover the cost of causing it to happen.

A stiff tax on remittances and small express packages to American Hispania would pay for the wall easily

Really, be ye not concerned with how the wall is funded. 20 billion is more or less nothing in a 3 trillion dollar annual budget. Plus once it is built nobody in Washington will give a rip where the money came from. Plus a sure thing $10 bet is that the alleged funding for the wall will be at least a semi fraud if not a total fiction.

Blogger pyrrhus January 07, 2017 9:33 AM  

The Wall will save 1000 times its cost in welfare, especially medical welfare, and law enforcement costs, so the media can just shut up.

Blogger Skyler the Weird January 07, 2017 9:34 AM  

Tax foreign wire transfers and allow emergency rooms to send the bill for treating illegal aliens to the local consulate or embassy of their country of origin.

Blogger pyrrhus January 07, 2017 9:35 AM  

But as I have been saying for a decade or more, LOL, a remittance tax will pay for many walls and will only harm Carlos Slim....

Blogger Sherwood family January 07, 2017 9:36 AM  

For a more holistic view of who receives development aid the following Infogalactic link clarifies it a little. It does make one scratch one's head to think of what that money could be put to domestically. Good thing we don't have any use for it and have no debts to speak of.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Development_aid

Anonymous JAG January 07, 2017 9:39 AM  

Makeshift wrote:Other than being a good talking point, does building a wall actually do anything? Why not just deport, e verify, and restrict welfare to citizens?

You have to be a fucking moron to think the wall won't help with discouraging illegal entry.

Do you think your garage door keeps scumbags from ripping off your tools, and other stuff you keep in there? Why don't you remove it, and leave it open for a few decades. See how that goes for you.

Anonymous Matthew McConnagay January 07, 2017 9:43 AM  

Am I the only one who thinks all this talk about the wall is kind of gay? I mean, isn't the whole thing obviously superfluous?

If the US isn't serious about keeping out illegals, then a wall won't stop them from coming in. Conversely, if they are serious about it, then they don't need the wall.

Isn't anybody worried that the wall is a big red herring? It allows Trump to play both sides of the issue if he wants. Surely it's the deportations that are the actual important thing.

Anonymous Rocklea January 07, 2017 9:45 AM  

The DeploraWall shall prevail

Blogger wreckage January 07, 2017 9:45 AM  

Security is not about absolutes, it's just about making things inconvenient.

Anonymous Rocklea January 07, 2017 9:49 AM  

The DeploraWall will never fall!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 07, 2017 9:51 AM  

I believe the wall in the San Diego area is quite popular, maybe the SJW want to be blamed for removing it.

Blogger Dave January 07, 2017 9:53 AM  

Johnny wrote:
Really, be ye not concerned with how the wall is funded. 20 billion is more or less nothing in a 3 trillion dollar annual budget. Plus once it is built nobody in Washington will give a rip where the money came from. Plus a sure thing $10 bet is that the alleged funding for the wall will be at least a semi fraud if not a total fiction.


Annual spending is a lot closer to $4 Trillion. Foreign aid accounts for less than 0.012% of that $4 Trillion. Why do we keep wasting our time talking about foreign aid? Fed gov spends a trillion dollars a year more than it collects in taxes and we're supposed to fall all over ourselves justifying $20B for the wall. Don't play the media's game.

Blogger Dave January 07, 2017 9:55 AM  

Matthew McConnagay wrote:Am I the only one who thinks all this talk about the wall is kind of gay?

You're gay

Blogger Mighty Lou January 07, 2017 9:56 AM  

I wouldnt believe those numbers; there's probably a lot of kickbacks included in them; Trump will build the wall under budget and ahead of schedule.

Blogger Mighty Lou January 07, 2017 9:58 AM  

Matthew McConnagay? I feel like I'm back in 6th grade, but that gave me a good chuckle. Lol.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 07, 2017 9:58 AM  

You can make it impossible for illegals to get jobs, take away all the welfare and the free medical care and the birthright citizenship, and America will still be a better place for illegals to live than many of the crapholes they come from. Living in a cardboard box under a bridge and begging from strangers all day would be a step up for people who already live in cardboard shacks where there aren't any wealthy strangers to beg from.

So you'll have to go well beyond just taking away the freebies to stop the colonists. You'll have to make it illegal to live in a cardboard box under a bridge or to beg for your living; and hire more cops to roust people, find out if they're citizens, and send the non-citizens home. You'll have to give the IRS and other authorities more power to stick their noses into people's business to find out if they hired some garden help for cash last year. You'll have to raid ethnic neighborhoods and drag out illegals hiding in the attics of their legal relatives. Won't that look good on TV?

In short, you'll have to make America (more of) a police state. Or, you know, you could build a wall and control the border, keeping most of them out in the first place and deporting the occasional one who sneaks in. Let's try that first.

Blogger Lovekraft January 07, 2017 9:58 AM  

Ah the hypocrisy. First Cuckerberg and now NoBordersBarack abandoning their UN feelz of compassion and diversity when it comes to protecting them and their own.

Let me see if I got this:

Globalists don't care that the masses have to navigate a world of feral dindus and psychopathic Mohammedans, but don't ask them to endure the same dangers. Ok then.

Blogger Lovekraft January 07, 2017 10:01 AM  

Considering the amount of debt the U.S. has, it has entered into a type of surreal issue that most cannot even grasp. So quibbling about a few billion here and there, thinking this demotes Trump's abilities is missing the point.

We're well past any notion of sustainable public fiscal health.

We've entered Alice in Wonderland territory.

Blogger StrongCoffee61 January 07, 2017 10:02 AM  

Renegotiating trade deals with mexico so that our annual trade deficit would modestly shrink from $54 billion to $44 billion would save $100 billion over a decade.

Just a fraction of that would pay for even the most expensive version of the Wall.

Also, the percentage of Latino immigrant-headed households using one or more welfare programs is 73%. That's, by far, the highest of any immigrant group.
The Wall's effect of reducing Latino immigration, particularly the anchor babies, will pay for the Wall many times over given time.



Blogger Some Dude January 07, 2017 10:11 AM  

Hahahaahah, that was a good laugh. Nice to see the price tag being an 'issue'. Just like Trump being a secret Russian spy is an 'issue' that clashes with conservatism.

Anonymous Rocklea January 07, 2017 10:11 AM  

There once was a wall built by Trump
To keep separate the Mexican dump
They said your hands are too small
You just can't build that wall
Once done he said "You can go jump!"

Blogger Some Dude January 07, 2017 10:11 AM  

Trump being a pro pace candidate is an issue with (((conservatism))).

Blogger Some Dude January 07, 2017 10:12 AM  

#peace

Blogger Cail Corishev January 07, 2017 10:13 AM  

Surely it's the deportations that are the actual important thing.

If your goal is a revolving door, sure.

The argument that the wall wouldn't be necessary if we just deported illegals, fined employers, ended welfare, etc., etc., is a lot like the argument that we wouldn't need to pursue drug dealers if we just got Americans to stop using drugs. Or this favorite: instead of shaming sluts, just get men to stop sleeping with them.

The logic is always the same: let's do this impossible thing, so we don't have to do that possible thing that makes me uncomfortable. Which in practice always boils down to: let's do nothing.

Blogger Lazarus January 07, 2017 10:14 AM  

The Israelis have a lot of experience with this sort of thing.

The Israeli Company That Fenced in Gaza Eyes Trump's Mexico Wall

The border security business is thriving and that’s good news for Magal Security Systems Ltd. boss Saar Koursh. His biggest showroom: the Gaza Strip.
The Israeli company, which wrapped Gaza in a fence to prevent militant attacks, has helped construct barriers along the Egyptian and Jordanian frontiers. It’s now competing for the contract to build a wall on Kenya’s border with Somalia, Koursh, Magal’s chief executive officer, said. If Donald Trump makes it to the White House, Mexico could be next.


“The border business was down, but then came ISIS and the Syrian conflict,” Koursh, 44, said in an interview, using an acronym for Islamic State. “The world is changing and borders are coming back big-time.”

Blogger Lazarus January 07, 2017 10:15 AM  

My tags did not work even though they worked in the preview....strange

Blogger CynicalMan January 07, 2017 10:19 AM  

It is amusing to see the left attempt to apply logic and reason in almost any of their arguments. It seems they can only use the rhetoric of their ideology to define any issue. Logic is not a big tool in the hands of the progressives.

Blogger James Dixon January 07, 2017 10:19 AM  

> The problem is that the improving economy does not wholly cover the cost of causing it to happen.

It more than covers it. The problem is that Congress will always insist on spending far more than we take in, regardless of how much tax revenues increase.

Blogger Bard January 07, 2017 10:43 AM  

We could fund it in a week with tax deductible donations from flyover country

Blogger Bard January 07, 2017 10:45 AM  

Mexico is already paying for in lost revenue from Ford, Carrier, and soon Toyota

Blogger Lovekraft January 07, 2017 10:58 AM  

Just wanted to say that I found this comment thread on VP to be among the best (and I've been coming here for around three years now):

http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/01/the-2nd-law-of-sjw-in-action.html#comment-form

The vibrant exchange of ideas, the respect. A great place to push our ideas and learn from others. Thanks, guys.

Blogger liberranter January 07, 2017 11:11 AM  

I see a lot of merit in this idea:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/11/gary-north/trumps-wall/

Blogger Some Dude January 07, 2017 11:12 AM  

@36 Shaaaaadddddddduupppppppp yo moutttthhaaaaa.

Why doesn't Israel use amnesty, pathway to citizenship, underfunded border patrol agents and repatriation agreements with Honduras then?

THATS RIGHT.

ITS NOT FUCKING RETARDED

Blogger Johnny January 07, 2017 11:13 AM  

James Dixon wrote:> The problem is that the improving economy does not wholly cover the cost of causing it to happen.

It more than covers it. The problem is that Congress will always insist on spending far more than we take in, regardless of how much tax revenues increase.


Deficit spending to fix the economy has been in place since JFK, and it was introduced on the contention that it would fix the economy and self cover the deficit. Well it has been 50 year and it still has not worked.

Your rebuttal does not follow. If deficit spending would eliminate the deficit then even more deficit spending would fix it even more. Spend your way to economic heaven I guess.

Anonymous BiigGayKoranBurner January 07, 2017 11:13 AM  

concerned about...$8 and 20 billion on shutting down illegal...cheerleading Obama's $787 billion in economic stimulus

While a real news number is illegals costing over $180 billion a year, even ABC admits its over $100billion http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317

The Trump train is already leaving the station,let's see how many R's jump on or Chase it down the tracks.

Hopefully they will mistake it for a parade and try to jump in front of it.

I think I will need a detailed flow chart to get that ten dollars.

I fear you will be earning less than min wage for that teaching job.

The following CNN link (I know, okay!) has a good visualization of foreign military aid and where it goes.

I suspect they underrepresent the amount of hookers and cocaine involved.

stick their noses into people's business to find out if they hired some garden help for cash last year.

Even while working in an inner city hospital I managed to live in a place so white that white teens would offer to mow lawns for cash.

I really do hope mexico pays for it, I $10 riding on that.

It depends on the IQ of the person you are betting. Since the beginning the plan was to tax money sent via money order to Mexico, taking the same cut Carlos Slims takes due to his monopoly. Its also less than Israel take out for money going to Palestinians, & would use the same paperwork that tracks money sent to Cuba. If the person isn't smart enough to understand taxing cash wired to Mexico which is done by illegals is making Mexico pay for it you will be out of luck.

Blogger Some Dude January 07, 2017 11:14 AM  

Anyyone ever noticing the way deee NEw Yoik Timzen is owned by a mehican lebanses facist Israel prop? Lebanon's fasces fundo par la Zion por conqueror dos Arabos, then Slimy gets the NYT to brainwash Amehicans.

Yo ho Ho and a barrle of rum.

Blogger Some Dude January 07, 2017 11:18 AM  

You could pay for the wall by fining illegals and seizing property as you round them up and deport them.

We sent a man to the moon. We have pretty smart guys on Wall Street that know how to make money, of which Trump has many in his cabinet.

There are 432 different ways - no joking - that you could get mexicans to pay for the wall.

Hell, do an IRS tax investigation of offshore assets of Carlos Slim and you'll pay for it.

Blogger Some Guy January 07, 2017 11:19 AM  

Trump knows we can't pay off our debt with the economy in the state it's in. Step 1) build it back up 2) reign in spending 3) pay off the debt. No theiries needed just elbow grease

Blogger Some Dude January 07, 2017 11:21 AM  

The republic is at a nadir when a fascist Lebanese-Mexican owns the NYT, Jeff Bezos is running a paper for the CIA and all the news networks are run by fascist jews who despise white people. Amazing where high empathy and tolerance gets you....

DEATH

Blogger Some Guy January 07, 2017 11:28 AM  

Having an individual in the White House that can understand a financial statement and knows how to leverage debt should be should at least be entertaining when all the pundits say it's impossible.

Anonymous patrick kelly January 07, 2017 11:35 AM  

elijahrhodes wrote:With all the money the US spends in foreign aid we could pay for a wall completely surrounding the US. Twice. With a moat. And gondola rides. And lasers.

Can we afford bovine catapults?

BorderDefence

Blogger michaeloh59 January 07, 2017 11:44 AM  

It depends on how the wall is used doesn't it? Central Americans for example will not be deterred in the slightest since the law allows them to present themselves at the border and demand special status- whereas Mexicans can be and are deported rather quickly. I agree that since there is nothing to stop the next Establishment traitor President from refusing to 1) enforce immigration laws 2) manning or even maintaining a border wall, the Wall is mostly symbolic. However symbols can sometimes be important. If patriot-Americans make the Wall the new Statue of Liberty then perhaps it will become a new 3rd rail- a policy both sides are afraid to alter i.e. social security.

Blogger Brian H January 07, 2017 11:46 AM  

Adding to this, the wall, to me, is a functional, monolithic symbol (read: a giant F YOU) of a new approach to US immigration if nothing else.

It proclaims that the privilege of being in America is no longer a cheap throwaway thing to be used and abused with nothing given in return.

And that we're going to be really damn choosy from now on about who we think fits that description.

Blogger Chris Mallory January 07, 2017 11:47 AM  

Dave wrote:Why do we keep wasting our time talking about foreign aid?

Because a few years ago the Senate voted to cut heating oil subsidies going to Americans by X amount. The same day the Senate voted to ship that same X amount to Tel Aviv.

As much as I enjoy the thought of Yankees freezing to death, spending money on shitty little nations on the other side of the world while cutting money going to Americans just strikes my Nationalist streak the wrong way.

Anonymous Avalanche January 07, 2017 11:56 AM  

@23 "Follow me on Gab @BestToolsForMen"

Will you quit with the advertising?! Yes, Vox gave you permission -- what, 3-4 months ago!? NO one else -- at all -- on this blog advertises in their comments. It does NOT make you look good or cool or worth checking out! It makes you look desperate and completely uninterested in how the people you're bothering feel about you continually pushing your business on them. It's as if you're wandering around a party shoving your card at anyone you see and urging them to buy from you. NOT enticing.

Or, it could just be me who is annoyed by it.

(And if I have overstepped, Vox, my apologies, but it's annoying.)

Anonymous patrick kelly January 07, 2017 11:58 AM  

I'm not opposed to the wall. It is a great rhetorical rallying point, but as a practical priority it is lacking.

It will be years before a wall turns back anyone, we could start deporting and cutting off $$ now and see immediate results.

Blogger Sillon Bono January 07, 2017 12:07 PM  

People (especially on the left) act like illegal immigration is a phenomenally complex problem.

This is because they do not talk about immigration, they talk about "Pablo", "Mohammed" and "Owunu", all of them excellent people, one does my lawn the other sells halal kebabs and while I do not know what the other does they're all great chaps who want a better life.

Fuck all that, neither "Pablo", "Mohammed" nor "Owunu" have a right to be anywhere else than heir homelands, regardless of how great as individuals they are, they stick to their social group dynamics and foster a sense of alienation and inadequacy on some of their compatriots, then fuelling social unrest.

People (especially on the left) act like illegal immigration is a phenomenally complex problem. It's a rather simple one, the solution of which only requires men with chests.

The left is just required to shut up and fuck off.

I agree with you the solution is simple and only takes determination.

Blogger Dave January 07, 2017 12:12 PM  

Or, it could just be me who is annoyed by it.

Seems to be just you.

Blogger Danby January 07, 2017 12:19 PM  

Johnny wrote:Prediction two is that Trump is a spender, or covertly achieve the same outcome with tax cuts. He is only nominally a conservative in that he is a nationalist and the other side has gone internationalist.
OMG! Trump is exactly who we said he was! What will we do?!?!?

Seriously, kid, welcome to the party.

Johnny wrote:Spend your way to economic heaven I guess.
Drink yourself sober.

Blogger Danby January 07, 2017 12:23 PM  

patrick kelly wrote:I'm not opposed to the wall. It is a great rhetorical rallying point, but as a practical priority it is lacking.

It will be years before a wall turns back anyone, we could start deporting and cutting off $$ now and see immediate results.


The wall is fine. Seriously, you don't see the value of FORCING every saboteur and wrecker out into the open to actually answer questions from voters?
"Senator McCain, you said in you last campaign we should just build the dang wall. Yet you voted against building the dang wall. Care to explain?"

Anonymous Avalanche January 07, 2017 12:23 PM  

@61 "I see a lot of merit in this idea:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/11/gary-north/trumps-wall/"

Nope. Because without the wall, the NEXT leftie-lib-socialist-communist prez will STOP the program -- and there will BE NO WALL! It will be right straight back to open doors, open wallets, once again.

Build The Wall! THEN use North's drones and cameras and YouTube vids to 'out' the coyotes.... but the wall, first and always!

Blogger Cail Corishev January 07, 2017 12:28 PM  

I'm not opposed to the wall. It is a great rhetorical rallying point, but as a practical priority it is lacking.

You can't separate the two. Without rhetoric to rally the people, you'll never have support for your "practical" methods. We've had leaders who had good, solid, comprehensive plans to secure the border and reverse the invasion, such as Tancredo and Sessions, and they couldn't get enough support to get into the election debates. The Wall is necessary, doubly so since it was one of Trump's main promises. Perhaps a wall isn't strictly necessary for stopping the colonization, but it is necessary for keeping the Trump Train moving down the tracks so that he can accomplish other things he was elected to do.

It will be years before a wall turns back anyone, we could start deporting and cutting off $$ now and see immediate results.

Again, there's no reason we can't do both at the same time. The laws and funding are already in place for things like deportations and border security; the agents have just been sitting on their hands because they weren't allowed to do their jobs. Trump can start most of the works moving again with a few phone calls telling people to get back to work. Then he can hire someone to build a 2500-mile wall, and check in for daily or weekly briefings while he works on new trade deals and judicial appointments. It's not really that big a deal.

But you're also wrong that it won't stop people for years. Just the fact of Trump's election kicked off many self-deportations, and headlines like "Trump Appoints X to Head Wall Effort" and "Trump Breaks Ground on First Mile of Wall" will prompt some would-be invaders to stay home. The Wall is already helping. If he would take cuck advice and say, "We'll get to the Wall someday, but for now let's focus on deportations and cutting welfare benefits," (which cutting, by the way, there isn't widespread support for), he'd be telling the invaders he's a paper tiger, so they can keep right on coming.

Anonymous Avalanche January 07, 2017 12:32 PM  

@75 "It will be years before a wall turns back anyone, we could start deporting and cutting off $$ now and see immediate results."

Why do you think a madly successful businessman, who runs multiple, multiple business ALL at the same time, somehow cannot manage to do a couple of important things at once?! Especially when he's got some pretty great staff to help?

It's NOT going to be:
1. Build The Wall. (and while doing that, do nothing else at all. When the Wall is finished,
2. only then begin deporting illegals. Once you've gotten THEM all gone,
3. only then start cutting out welfare programs for all immigrants. And only after you've finished THAT,
4. begin changing the anchor-baby opinion and enforce the opposite.
5. After all that is finished, maybe then begin renegotiating trade deals?!

Really?

Blogger Casher O'Neill January 07, 2017 12:43 PM  

This is a testament to Team Trump's competence and Trump's leadership and skills as a persuader.

An anecdote that is consistent with other interactions w/ Republicans I know here in DC:
I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago with a hill staffer who works (indirectly) with the congressional Homeland Security crew. He describes himself as an arch-conservative (or "more right-wing than you"). He is typically a good bellwether for establishment Republican opinion. He confidently pronounced that the wall wasn't going to be built and that Mexico paying for it was a ridiculous idea. I mentioned the Bush-era border security laws as an avenue that Trump might use and he was flabbergasted. The possibility had literally never occurred to him. He's not a stupid, lazy, or improvident fellow, just a bit unimaginative and demoralized.

People outside Washington can fail to see just how oppressive the atmosphere is here for the 4% of the population that actually supports Trump and how isolated their conversation is from all but establishment conservative or general media. Once the winning starts and proceeds apace, we may see a considerable awakening on the part of the old Tea Party types and even some old-school conservatives. For example, it looks like Priebus is on board and energized. Though he's hardly an inspiring fellow on his own, he may prove formidable as a Trump organization man.

Keep the pressure up, as Bannon asked. Trump will need to be able to point to public support since media and internal DC pressure will be relentless. I was beginning to be sold on the idea of passivism but in the age or Trump, actual right-wing activism looks possible.

BiigGayKoranBurner wrote:I think I will need a detailed flow chart to get that ten dollars.

I fear you will be earning less than min wage for that teaching job.

Probably. Even if bets get paid out they'll retcon their positions. Still the general struggle is worth the effort.

Blogger rumpole5 January 07, 2017 12:45 PM  

Amen!

Anonymous Cassie January 07, 2017 12:47 PM  

The wall is a powerful symbol. Deportation will not be a powerful symbol because the media will always use it to increase sympathy for the deported rather than using it to convince illegals to go home on their own; and things like e-verify and welfare cuts aren't visual and therefore don't register as useful persuasion.

The wall is a visual symbol of "This is our property. No trespassing." Therefore it's useful to persuade people not to come, and to leave if they're already here.

Blogger DrAndroSF January 07, 2017 12:56 PM  

Amen!

Anonymous patrick kelly January 07, 2017 1:07 PM  

"Really?"

No. I'd just have more confidence if I heard Trump and his administration talking more about the other things.

That's why I'm not a VFM. I still care. I'm trying to drink it out of me. Progress is slow.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 07, 2017 1:11 PM  

The wall absolutely needs to be built. If only for political reasons Trump needs to see it done. Walls work very well which is why you see so many of them.

I would also recommend self-enforcing measures such as allowing illegals to sue their employers for ten times the legal wages they would have made while employed and add on a $5-10,000 fine which they can take home to wherever.

No employer would hire someone that can, at the end of his employment get ten times what he would have been paid legally.

That would end the illegal job market overnight.

Blogger Casher O'Neill January 07, 2017 1:21 PM  

@15 @19 @36 @53 @66

Deportation is a very difficult issue. If Trump is serious about it, he's going about it the right way by going after sanctuary cities. One has to destroy organized political opposition first and break the capacity and will of the enemy to fight. Additionally, he will need a judiciary that is more favorable to it so they don't stand in the way. He looks to be trying to do that all pretty quickly. Nothing happens instantly in Washington.

No one can fault DOJ for going after municipal politicians who are in violation of(nationally) popular immigration laws. Fewer sob stories in that, especially if it can be connected with urban crime and corruption. Just keep on the administration on that.



Blogger James Dixon January 07, 2017 1:33 PM  

> Deficit spending to fix the economy has been in place since JFK, and it was introduced on the contention that it would fix the economy and self cover the deficit. Well it has been 50 year and it still has not worked.

You have no idea what you're talking about. It hasn't worked because government spending always outstrips the increases in tax revenues.

Let's take the Reagan years for example. From http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/budget.php

Tax revenues in 1980 were $517B. When Reagan left office after 1988, tax revenues were $991B. Tax revenues almost doubled in his eight years in office. But the spending went from $591B to $1,064B, again almost doubling.

Try pulling your BS on someone who didn't live through those years and can't do math. those of us who did and can know better.

Blogger James Dixon January 07, 2017 1:40 PM  

> Step 1) build it back up 2) reign in spending 3) pay off the debt.

Step two will be the problem. It always is. Freezing government spending for his term(s) seems like the only likely solution to the problem. A real freeze, not a baseline budget freeze.

Anonymous patrick kelly January 07, 2017 2:33 PM  

"No one can fault DOJ for going after municipal politicians who are in violation of(nationally) popular immigration laws. "

There is an important difference between violating laws and not enforcing *federal* laws. The SC has ruled that local and state governments cannot be forced to enforce fed laws. In one case (Arizona?) courts ruled that state and local LE couldn't enforce federal laws.

This is a good thing. This is part of what took the teeth out of the Brady bill. Court ruled the feds couldn't force local LE to do background checks before approving sales. This is why some states are passing laws forbidding their LE or courts from enforcing fed gun laws.

The only tool the feds have for pressuring local govt and LE to do stuff is withholding funding.

Anonymous To Mock a KIllingbird January 07, 2017 2:46 PM  

@4.

Guarantee Batcrazy Man John McCain and his boy wonder Ribbons Lindsey Graham will stand on the tracks yelling "stop".

They will get run over.

Blogger Some Guy January 07, 2017 3:04 PM  

Yep, getting people off the dole is always the issue. If anyone can find the compromise that will do it, he can. I genuinely believe this is where guys like rand Paul and Cruz will start to shjbe

Anonymous John VI January 07, 2017 3:08 PM  

Mexico is on the verge of economic collapse. Ala Venezuela. It's nice to see these US companies coming back to the states, but it's not just a trump thing. Those CEOs can see the writing on the wall. The costs of maintaining the security and bribery needed to keep a factory running in Mexico are going to exceed profits in the next 10 years. ALL those South American cleptocracies have a history of "nationalizing" foreign held property and business for "good of the people" building south of the border for the next generation is going to be financial suicide.

Blogger bosscauser January 07, 2017 3:18 PM  

Deficits financed by income taxes from paychecks. Large deficits no paychecks. People on the dole. Bring back paychecks deficits go away!
Jobs jobs jobs. Win win win!
#PresidentTrump

Blogger bosscauser January 07, 2017 3:20 PM  

We deport they walk back in. Some a dozen times after arrest.
Wall cheaper than armed guards and much better use of assets.

#PresidentTrump

Blogger bosscauser January 07, 2017 3:23 PM  

Why not a complete police state? Wall cheaper than hiring million bureaucrats...

#PresidentTrump

Blogger bosscauser January 07, 2017 3:27 PM  

We deport them over n over n over! We want the wall and Mexico will pay. And be grateful we still let them trade with us after we remove our jobs.
Yes, we will import workers legally from Mexico.
Everybody happy!

#PresidentTrump

Blogger Michael Kingswood January 07, 2017 3:28 PM  

"Freezing government spending for his term(s) seems like the only likely solution to the problem. A real freeze, not a baseline budget freeze."

Cannot happen.

The 3rd Rail of politics (SS) makes such a freeze impossible.

Blogger bosscauser January 07, 2017 3:31 PM  

Bottom line. Illegals drop kid who grow up vote DEMOCRAT to make momma Democrat then they vote to bring 29 relatives in to vote DEMOCRAT!

Got it? Good!
We build the wall send them home! Import legally if necessary then send home!

#PresidentTrump

Anonymous BBGKB January 07, 2017 3:52 PM  

The 3rd Rail of politics (SS) makes such a freeze impossible.

Kill off all the illegal aliens and refusegees from social security disability fraud, no more SSD for not speaking English and we can freeze it.

Blogger RobertT January 07, 2017 3:53 PM  

It would certainly be nice if a conservative news source developed contacts in the political system so this kind of growing or waning support could be reported on as it occurs. Seems like a no-brainer to me. All we get now is headlines.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster January 07, 2017 4:03 PM  

"When it's been proven time and again that all they actually have to do is let people keep more of their own money, and that their spending money is actually counterproductive."

But.. but... but... those people then spend that money on THE WRONG THINGS! Only government knows what those people should really be spending money on, therefore it must take that money and give it to the lesbian poets and solar power companies who would otherwise not exist.

Getting back to The Wall, the other benefit of building one is that you can fix remote-controlled machineguns to the top and charge people to log in over the Internet and take potshots at any wetbacks who try to climb over. Turn security from an cost to a profit centre.

Blogger Thanks, J. January 07, 2017 4:07 PM  

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. "You've got to be kidding me", is what I said out loud when I read this utter BULLSH*T: The GOP’s willingness to fund Trump’s border wall with taxpayer money could put the party’s deeply held desire to rein in government spending in conflict with.."..dot dot dot.
Cuckservative traitors, Democrat newly concerned about government, spending, the (((MSM))))... What do we have to say in return? Should we detail how much was spent in the failed Iraq and Afghanistan wars? How much we spend on a Navy ship or jet we don't need, on "experimental" weapons that don't work and aren't needed today, on defending other countries, on social programs for parasites? I you feel like it.
I'd prefer to let Trump and the Republican Party and the whole god damn government to know that they're going to have a growing problem throughout the country with more than just their blacks chimping out. It'll begin with Republicans losing congressional seats, with Trump sent back to Nooo Yawk in embarrassing defeat. In time we'll organize ourselves, for the long fight, in a country that was taken from us. Just. Build the f*cking Wall - it's an important start. Also, deport all illegals, not just "the criminals", idiots, because illegal aliens are all criminals. And end birthright citizenship now. I'm rambling. BUILD THE WALL.

Anonymous Ghost Who Walks January 07, 2017 4:13 PM  

Why not just crucify illegals along the border? Then we'd only need to build the posts and could dispense with the infill. Oy! A savings, itz!

Blogger James Dixon January 07, 2017 5:03 PM  

> Getting back to The Wall, the other benefit of building one is that you can fix remote-controlled machineguns to the top and charge people to log in over the Internet and take potshots at any wetbacks who try to climb over. Turn security from an cost to a profit centre.

The "killer" app of 2017. Actually, more likely 2018 or later, but...

Blogger Some Dude January 07, 2017 5:13 PM  

ANYONE AGAINST THE FUCKING WALL NEEDS TO BE DEPORTED OR JOIN THE CUCKOLD PARTY.

I don't want bullshit cost, symbolic, not practical, not environmental, we need more money for Israel, more jewish paedo porn budgets.

ANYONE AGAINST THE FUCKING WALL IS A TRAITOR

Anonymous Eric the Red January 07, 2017 5:21 PM  

@92:
"The SC has ruled that local and state governments cannot be forced to enforce fed laws. In one case (Arizona?) courts ruled that state and local LE couldn't enforce federal laws."

Perhaps states can't be forced to enforce federal laws, but Arizona was TRYING to enforce federal laws, and the Obama administration fought to prevent it. Do you see the difference?

BTW, taking federal money means you uphold federal laws. This is the ploy used by leftists over the last 60 years to gain top-down control over the entire country while eliminating any last vestige of locality. As in all things, the left is trying to have it both ways.

Blogger Dave January 07, 2017 5:31 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> Getting back to The Wall, the other benefit of building one is that you can fix remote-controlled machineguns to the top and charge people to log in over the Internet and take potshots at any wetbacks who try to climb over. Turn security from an cost to a profit centre.

The "killer" app of 2017. Actually, more likely 2018 or later, but...


No, that's just another game. People need to go see the wall, put skin in the game, pull the trigger, feel it, hear it, smell it, and taste it.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor January 07, 2017 6:49 PM  

I'm not opposed to the wall certainly, but IMO the top priority should be ending all forms of welfare to illegals, including public schools and health care. End all welfare and there will be a mass exodus of them going back home.

Blogger Chris McCullough January 07, 2017 7:30 PM  

I'm a slight bit disappointed it's a febce instead of brick and mortar. I planned on luring a few progressives in with promises of free trade Amontillado.

Blogger American Spartan January 07, 2017 10:42 PM  

Chris McCullough wrote:I'm a slight bit disappointed it's a febce instead of brick and mortar. I planned on luring a few progressives in with promises of free trade Amontillado.

A fence for the open, rural areas but walls for the cities..

Anonymous LurkingPuppy January 08, 2017 1:05 AM  

Some Dude wrote:ANYONE AGAINST THE FUCKING WALL IS A TRAITOR
So anyone against the wall needs to be… against the wall?

Dave wrote:No, that's just another game. People need to go see the wall, put skin in the game, pull the trigger, feel it, hear it, smell it, and taste it.
No, we don't need more kuru cases in this country.

Noah B The MacroAggressor wrote:I'm not opposed to the wall certainly, but IMO the top priority should be ending all forms of welfare to illegals, including public schools and health care. End all welfare and there will be a mass exodus of them going back home.
The courts won't let us do that; we'll need to remove a bunch of judges from office first. (Fortunately, that's just a matter of finding their hot-dogs-and-pizza videos and arranging for ‘Russian hackers’ to leak them.)

Anonymous Discard January 08, 2017 2:16 AM  

92. Patrick Kelly: Some states and local governments would like to see the wetbacks leave. When they know that they'll have Federal backing as well as local support for getting rid of wetbacks, they'll do so. That pushes the wetbacks into pro-wetback areas, and puts the costs where they belong. How long will the "blue" states be willing to bear all the costs of iminvasion?

Blogger EscapeVelocity January 08, 2017 2:51 AM  

Not to mention the cost savings derived from the wall and immigration enforcment.

Blogger Resident Moron™ January 08, 2017 3:00 AM  

Of course there's less point to the wall if he doesn't also deport a lot of welfare criminals.

But the wall would pay for itself several times over if you took into account the reduction in welfare benefits and criminal justice costs (which for a lot of the lower class are more or less the same thing).

Anonymous Luke January 08, 2017 3:35 AM  

Cail Corishev wrote:"You can make it impossible for illegals to get jobs, take away all the welfare and the free medical care and the birthright citizenship, and America will still be a better place for illegals to live than many of the crapholes they come from. Living in a cardboard box under a bridge and begging from strangers all day would be a step up for people who already live in cardboard shacks where there aren't any wealthy strangers to beg from.

So you'll have to go well beyond just taking away the freebies to stop the colonists. You'll have to make it illegal to live in a cardboard box under a bridge or to beg for your living; and hire more cops to roust people, find out if they're citizens, and send the non-citizens home. You'll have to give the IRS and other authorities more power to stick their noses into people's business to find out if they hired some garden help for cash last year. You'll have to raid ethnic neighborhoods and drag out illegals hiding in the attics of their legal relatives. Won't that look good on TV?..."

"Or, you know, you could build a wall and control the border, keeping most of them out in the first place and deporting the occasional one who sneaks in. Let's try that first.
"

I don't have any problem with any of those except a more active IRS against nonlawbreaking citizens. Frankly, IMO, when Third World illegals are found in a house, any diverse citizens in that house, and possibly every (say, up to four) houses should all be deported as well.

Anonymous Luke January 08, 2017 3:39 AM  

97. bosscauser January 07, 2017 3:20 PM
"We deport they walk back in. Some a dozen times after arrest.
Wall cheaper than armed guards and much better use of assets.

#PresidentTrump
"

So, instead of flying 3rd World deportees back to the capital cities of their home countries, how about dropping them 100 yards offshore of the southern tip of South America? They'd be a LOT longer getting back here that way...

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