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Monday, January 23, 2017

Mailvox: women and SJWs

ER seeks advice on how to go about fighting female SJWs:
I just listened to your periscope today and had several epiphanies so thank you, I couldn't be more thrilled you're hoping to do more of them.

My conundrum is this, I can grasp and admire the gamer gate/Trump tactics and appreciate the explanations about rhetoric and dialectic (your blog inspired me to read Aristotle, Cernovich and Scott Adams). But most of what I see working for all of you guys doesn't translate well into the more passive-aggressive ways of my social circles which are predominantly female.  It caught my attention when you said more people would witness the victories of Trump and Milo and see a way out...to follow their model of winning so we can stop losing. But even if I tried what you do with Scalzi...well maybe I'm just a wimp, but I can't do it.  It's too aggressive for me pull off.

I've tried to watch what other "red pill" women do on twitter and facebook, but the Anne Coulter model seems to work best for the strong, no-holds-barred ENTJ type of woman. As much as I respect or admire them, it doesn't seem to work for the more average woman.

I would just stay quietly in the background except that I see SJWism taking over even my conservative christian and homeschooling circles.  Those of us moms who voted Trump or who could be described as AltWest try feebly to defend ourselves but we don't do it well.

Any thoughts or tips on how women can engage in effective rhetoric? It seems we've found ourselves in this battle whether we want to be here or not.
If you can't utilize the heavy artillery, then all that remains is to use the weapons that you are willing and able to use. Take the passive-aggressive tactics of your SJW enemies as a model and use them to pursue your own objectives. Engage in your own whisper campaigns. Exclude those whom you know to be on the other side. Behave like Mean Girls and Heathers to bully and badger the other women into complying to your will. Tear them down psychologically with little passive-aggressive comments and damn them with faint praise and back-handed compliments.

Anyone who is attacked has three choices: fight, submit, or run away. Now, no advice is going to help those who are simply going to submit or run away. The key is to understand that once you're under assault, minding your own business ceases to be an option for you. Being left alone and going along to get along is no longer an option. You must accept that. Now, I've yet to see a woman who is totally incapable of getting nasty and passive-aggressive when sufficiently motivated, so I recommend that ER and other women in her position simply unleash their inner bitches and start fighting back using the natural weapons that God gave them.

If you don't think you can do it, ask your husband. He might be able to refresh your memory and remind you of certain tactics that are clearly at your disposal.

Remember, these SJW women are attacking you, your organizations, your families, your children, and your way of life. They are attempting to destroy the things you value and love. If you were capable of tearing down girls in 8th grade because they were prettier than you were, or because Billy the quarterback liked Sherry the cheerleader better than you, you are certainly capable of fighting back in this situation too.

You don't have to fight like me, or Milo, or Donald Trump. You probably can't. And that's fine, the important thing is to make up your mind to stand your ground and fight with what you have. The fact that you don't have a mechsuit armed with nuclear missiles doesn't mean you can't smile nicely at an SJW and greet her with flowery words before driving a wooden stake into her heart.

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141 Comments:

Blogger Shimshon January 23, 2017 5:32 AM  

Good advice for John Scalzi too.

Blogger Stilicho January 23, 2017 5:54 AM  

ER, time to get your mind right: never forget that these SJW'S are the creatures that believe that a little pedophilia would be good for your children. Make no mistake, when they infiltrate your church and home school groups, they ARE coming for your children.

Anonymous Rocklea January 23, 2017 6:06 AM  

It's an interesting thing, but when people are in groups and the men start talking politics, the women leave or start their own conversations.

Asking questions is the important part of any dialogue. Find out what they actually know and how they came to know it. Then continue asking questions with a view to getting them to contradict their previous answers. At this point, if they realize that they are beginning to contradict themselves, you can gently point that out and see how they react. Most will change the subject, some will get angry, some will have an ah huh moment.

The questions that relate to them specifically, particularly to something traumatic in their life, they are the teachable moments. Dig deep. If you find yourself monologuing and their eyes are glazing over, you've lost them, go back to questions or something directly related to them.

You have to know heading to these conversations whether this is a relationship that you need and whether or not you are willing to burn it. Don't be afraid to burn it. Actually start with one you can burn to get used to the feeling. It's ok to get angry for emphasis, people do appreciate passion, but always, always, the questions first.

Anonymous Mister M January 23, 2017 6:07 AM  

"THE thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as I best could, but when he ventured upon insult I vowed revenge. You, who so well know the nature of my soul, will not suppose, however, that gave utterance to a threat."

Poe knew what do do and provided a template.

Blogger Wanderer January 23, 2017 6:11 AM  

"I see SJWism taking over even my conservative christian and homeschooling circles"

As someone who doesn't have kids yet, but was hoping to have a family in future, this is really depressing. The whole point of moving away to conservative christian homeschooling circles is specifically to get away from SJW cancer infecting your children. Is nothing safe anymore? Where are the conservative Christian dads in this scenario? Are they all cucks too? It's looking like at this point your child would be safer if raised by a pack of wolves in the wild.

Blogger Robert What? January 23, 2017 6:19 AM  

I'm not a woman (last I checked) but I am getting more aggressive in fighting the Narrative among my circle of family, friends and acquaintances - 90% of whom are Liberal Democrats. Fortunately I own my own business so I can't be fired for my political views. My only problem is my boss is an idiot.

Anonymous Takin' a Look January 23, 2017 6:41 AM  

"If you don't think you can do it, ask your husband. He might be able to refresh your memory and remind you of certain tactics that are clearly at your disposal."

I need a new keyboard Vox :-D !!!!

@2. THIS....This is why we fight. Never forget this, the perversion of innocence and rendering us helpless and impotent in the face of it is the Enemy's primary goal.

Blogger JP January 23, 2017 7:00 AM  

People like following a good leader. If you come across as having your shit together, you will have a much easier time of convincing others your way of life is the superior one.

Blogger haus frau January 23, 2017 7:08 AM  

My husband's daughter got the self righteous, churchian chastisement for posting the meme "trump got more fat women walking in 1 day that Michelle Obama could in 8 years".
This woman started her post claiming that she respects "all" opinions and is neither an Obama supporter nor a trump supporter but that Corey (my step daughter ) is very un-christ like for posting such an insulting name. My husband jumped in to defend his kid and point out that the meme is just a joke. I think that is the wrong response because it doesn't hit the core of the issue. I had a difficult time summarizing my thoughts to explain, but if this churchian was really familiar with her bible, it's crystal clear that the prophets and apostles had no problem with being "un-christ like" and ridiculing the enemies of God. These women were marching for the right to dismember unborn children alive, among other un christ like things and here this woman is in a huff about a face book meme because ridicule is such bad etiquette. Ned Flanders Christianity is a disgusting plague on the body of Christ.

Blogger Timmy3 January 23, 2017 7:14 AM  

Exclude them and don't back down. Just put them on your own Do Not Call list and stop accepting calls.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 7:14 AM  

I think that is the wrong response because it doesn't hit the core of the issue.

It is absolutely the wrong response. It is a deflective response. A much better response would be: "Next time, put down the doughnut before you weigh in, fatty."

But his response was still better than backing down or apologizing.

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric January 23, 2017 7:29 AM  

An interesting and timely topic. My wife, who while reliably voting and believing mostly conservative principles (as filtered through a feminine lens, which means that freedom is less important to her—Libertarian she is not) has for all of her life been mostly apolitical, and hates talking about political or social issues. Part of this is that she's also very confrontation and conflict averse. This innate sweetness is part of her charm, of course, as it is for most decent women. It's been quite amazing to see her really start to wake up just in the last few months, and start to get angry.

But it isn't in her nature to be a real fighter or scrapper, and any woman who has the nature to be effective at that means is one that... quite honestly... is more unlikely than not to be a turn-off to any high quality man.

Don't try to fight like a man would. Steel yourself, learn to see these other women as your adversaries in an existential struggle for the definition of Western civilization instead of merely misguided sisters who have a few polite differences in point of view. And then go and fight them the same way you would any other more mundane issue that you wanted to get done. Think of it as similar to any other program you might want to institute among your friends that you feel too strongly about to let go. What curriculum do you favor for the home-school circle? Where do you meet for this circle? If you care enough about these issues to push for your view to be heard, just do this the same way.

Blogger Scott facehead January 23, 2017 7:34 AM  

Man, I'd love to be an all out aggressive fighter. Only problem is I'm in the military. I have to do my fighting "administrativley."

Anonymous CoolHand January 23, 2017 7:38 AM  

Robert What? wrote:Fortunately I own my own business...My only problem is my boss is an idiot.

You too, huh?

I briefly contemplated looking for a "day job" again a few months back, and promptly concluded that I've become far too big an asshole to properly integrate into a workplace I don't own (and thus can be fired for calling someone a fucking idiot when they deserve it).

Self employment is a tough row to hoe, but it is by far the best choice for people like us.

Probably the first big step (outside of mindset) toward anti-fragility that anyone can take.

As for the lady in question, I'd suggest thinking of what you'd say/do if someone called you ugly or your children stupid to your face.

The visceral reaction to personal insults will be much more aggressive and instinctual than what you'd normally say in an argument about politics.

Tap into that and use it when needed.

Helps if you start on someone you really don't like to begin with. Makes it easier to be mean and twist the shiv from the outset.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) January 23, 2017 7:43 AM  

Those of us moms who voted Trump or who could be described as AltWest try feebly to defend ourselves but we don't do it well.

Flip the script. Talk about the Supreme Court and abortion, force them to defend baby killing.

Blogger Paul R January 23, 2017 7:54 AM  

Don't let them use your niceness against you. Being nice doesn't get you into heaven and not being nice doesn't get you sent to hell.

Anonymous Bz January 23, 2017 7:59 AM  

If you need motivation, always remember that they are fat girls who dress funny and think they are so much better than you.

Blogger haus frau January 23, 2017 8:04 AM  

@11 "Next time, put down the doughnut before you weigh in, fatty." Fun and appropriate verbal Molotov as far as I'm concerned. However, we don't know how close this person is to my step-daughter which means we can't predict whether she would take offense to it on behalf of a friend. I'm not close to her but I suspect she has imbibed some Midwest cult of nice herself, though a very traditional wife and mother. It's a similar situation to what the OP is describing. I guess pointing out the examples in the Bible where ridicule is used is dialectic and wouldn't be appropriate either?

Blogger wreckage January 23, 2017 8:07 AM  

The SJWs cannot be happy as long as anyone - anyone at all - is able to raise their own kids. That's just a fact. These people are there for your kids.

My advice is to pick a really emotive issue and say "I couldn't vote for that. I had to vote against that." Abortion is your best bet.

"A vote for Hillary was a vote for late term abortion. I had to vote against that. I couldn't stand by. I'm sorry you don't understand."

They come back with "but you voted for a pig/ racist/ etc."

You reply:

"I'm sorry that that's more important to you. I'm sorry you don't understand how I feel."

They will usually escalate with outrage. You reply:

"I'm sorry I made you angry. I had to vote against Hillary, and I'm sorry you don't understand why I had to, and I am sorry you're getting so angry!"

From there, you can circle. If you can get upset over it, all the better. Say sorry, display submission, but stick to your point:

I HAD to do it, for EMOTIONAL reasons, why are you so ANGRY at me, I said I'm sorry.

In other words, if you can't attack, make it seen that the other person is attacking, and play that for all it's worth.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 8:08 AM  

However, we don't know how close this person is to my step-daughter which means we can't predict whether she would take offense to it on behalf of a friend.

Who cares? Seriously, what on Earth does that have to do with anything? Why isn't she worrying about offending you?

Do you really not see the problem inherent in your perspective? It is intrinsically defeatist. Once someone attacks, it doesn't matter who they are; defense is always appropriate.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 23, 2017 8:15 AM  

but that Corey (my step daughter ) is very un-christ like for posting such an insulting name

A crisp one-liner is the best response to nonsense like that. Something like:

"Er ... have you READ the gospels? Because you don't seem to have the slightest clue what Christ was like."

Blogger haus frau January 23, 2017 8:20 AM  

@20 "Do you really not see the problem inherent in your perspective? It is intrinsically defeatist. Once someone attacks, it doesn't matter who they are; defense is always appropriate."

Gotcha. That makes sense.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 23, 2017 8:25 AM  

Follow the logical path of a policy she must support, take it to its natural extreme and hang it on her neck like a gasoline soaked tire.

Strike a match. "When did you start loving delusion more than your kids?"

My point: if you are among the minority of women who lack the natural female predilection for backstabbing passive aggressive behavior, you will not win in the battle. All roads lead to separation or acquiescence.

If that's you, play tag team with your man. He will use his masculine power to tell your hecklers to Stop, Sit, Lay, Rollover like the dogs they are. "Who bitch this is?" indeed.

Other women's behavior is ultimately about the battle for the attention of every man around them, including your hubby. He can bitch-slap them with derision better than you can backstab them with put downs.

JMO. YMMV.

Blogger JP January 23, 2017 8:27 AM  

There is no easy way. Even the simple strategy of crushing them with rhetoric requires a lot of effort and experience. But that's okay because we're the side who's used to hard work.

That being said, I got the anti-gunners in our office to come around by inviting them to shoot clays with me. That strategy worked far better than quoting Stefan Molyneaux or Glen Beck ever did. It wasn't even like "just try it and you'll see my point". I literally just said "Hey, I'm going clay shooting tomorrow, why don't you come too?".

I don't know how to turn that tactic into something useful in the more general sense, but "Show, don't tell" seems to be effective if you're not big on direct confrontation.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 23, 2017 8:28 AM  

Take Paul's advice: "Rebuke them sharply ..."

Anonymous RabidRatel January 23, 2017 8:29 AM  

5343 Kinds of Deplorable wrote:"Er ... have you READ the gospels? Because you don't seem to have the slightest clue what Christ was like."

I like it - Temple, moneychangers. Tell them they are the moneychangers. Then keep them on the defensive.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 23, 2017 8:32 AM  

Deplorable Gaiseric wrote:My wife...has for all of her life been mostly apolitical, and hates talking about political or social issues. Part of this is that she's also very confrontation and conflict averse.

Yep, that's my house. Unfortunately she's also been burned too many times by bad female relationships (thru 20+ yrs in the military; we're 53) too and is socially averse now.

She'll vent to me about what she sees going on at FB but won't wade into the fight. Honestly that's the best approach for her as it would eat her up and destroy her if she tried (and possibly do more harm than good to our cause). Not worth it. You have to know your limitations, and she does. But who knows what the future will bring.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 23, 2017 8:35 AM  

PS it's not weakness to enlist a husband to fight battles. His first priority is his wife, and if rhetorically or physically beating down anyone who attacks you is not an autonomic reflex, he should have his testosterone level checked.

Almost all women are obsessed, deep down, with the desire (or delusion) that every man's next orgasm has her face on it. (Exceptions exist.)

A man who can rip this off a woman and cast it aside by casual ridicule is likely a great ally in social warfare.

I'm just guessing, though. My wife and I avoid such henhouses like we avoid cesspools.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 23, 2017 8:40 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote:PS it's not weakness to enlist a husband to fight battles. His first priority is his wife, and if rhetorically or physically beating down anyone who attacks you is not an autonomic reflex, he should have his testosterone level checked.

Indeed. In fact that's partly why I've discouraged her from engaging on social media and IRL too. Because I would get drawn in when the inevitable happened and I just don't have the time to get dragged in. It has happened long ago when I had to do so in her family (she's youngest of 7). But the kabosh on that B.S.

Blogger David Power January 23, 2017 8:52 AM  

Anyone who is attacked has three choices: fight, submit, or run away.

How is the weather in Italy this time of year?

Anonymous Curlytop January 23, 2017 9:04 AM  

This is where Vox's book, SJWAL, comes into play. I had the fortune of being on this blog when Vox started posting the threads that led to the book. Thanks Vox. Truly, you have earned another jewel on your crown in heaven.

As a woman, I think the first step for the non Ann Coulter types is to memorize the steps outlined in the book. Break the steps up and master them 1-2 at a time. For me, the two most important were: Do NOT apologize under any circumstances and don't back down.

Most women simply don't have the verbal arsenal on hand at the moment the attack happens. Our emotions get in the way. I'm more like Ann, yet when I was attacked it was by way of aiming it towards my son.(Satan always strikes at your biggest vulnerability). While that cemented my resolve...no way was I going to back down, it initially threw me.

I took the calculated approach because the first step had to be to remove my child from this heretical "Bible Based" group. That happened on the spot. Then, I brought husband in and quietly plotted my counter attack.

I applied something to the situation that my father used to say: " when you set up bombs, make sure the fuse is long enough that you don't get hit by shrapnel."

I'm pleased to say that the group is collapsing in the most spectacular fashion and the woman who sided w the SJW is feeling the brunt of it. :-)

Nowhere in Vox's book does he suggest that you apply these tactics all at once. You always want to fight from a position of strength, ladies. ER's email implies that she doesn't feel like she is in a position of strength yet. Work towards that goal.

Anonymous George January 23, 2017 9:11 AM  

With respect to Vox, I think his advice is terrible.

There is a way out - you don't play the game. You put the SJWs in a "box" and never take anything they say seriously, but you also don't transform into one of them and begin using their tactics.

If you begin using their tactics, it's the worst thing you can possibly do. You become evil, like them. Tactics are not neutral, they transform you from within. You cannot act evil and not become evil.

If you start using SJW tactics back at them, you will have "lost" in the profoundest way imaginable. Evil will have found one more acolyte.

Vox, being a servant of the devil, will delete this message very soon, but I hope you have a chance to see it before he does. Its important for your spiritual health.

Blogger Cecil Henry January 23, 2017 9:11 AM  

Whenever possible, attack with a question.

This serves to leaves their false and manipulative presuppositions in the light and knocks them off their self made pedestal.

Don't debate, just question, assert and leave.

Blogger Elocutioner January 23, 2017 9:12 AM  

Good != Nice != Kind
Failing to learn the distinctions is Bad.

Blogger Paul R January 23, 2017 9:15 AM  

It's not the tactics that make them (or us) evil. It's the objective that they're working towards.

Anonymous Red sky in morning January 23, 2017 9:17 AM  

I've found my counters work most effectively if I keep it brief and/or form my comments into questions.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 9:19 AM  

If you begin using their tactics, it's the worst thing you can possibly do. You become evil, like them. Tactics are not neutral, they transform you from within. You cannot act evil and not become evil.

You're stupid. And, worse than merely being stupid, you're a liar.

Vox, being a servant of the devil, will delete this message very soon, but I hope you have a chance to see it before he does. Its important for your spiritual health.

And yet, Vox is not the one who is observably lying. Which raises the question: who is serving the devil here and who is not?

Don't ever listen to the Churchian cucks. Theirs is the nice and broad and easy way.

Anonymous Gertie Gasche January 23, 2017 9:23 AM  

LOL George you cucktard. Run along. You are too short to ride this ride.

Blogger Elocutioner January 23, 2017 9:24 AM  

So fat shaming is evil? Man, I really need to reconsider rebuking people for sins such as gluttony.

Blogger Avalanche January 23, 2017 9:24 AM  

ER, permit me to recommend a superb (series of) book(s) on learning the ... graceful ... way to both defend yourself (/your positions) and force your attacker onto the defensive. Alas, the author is pretty much 100% feminist, but her non-fiction books REALLY help you to identify or recognize and (use to hit back... er... deflect; yeah that's it: to DEFLECT!) the attack.

The one I always remember (and I've read all her non-fiction series) is this: someone says; "if you LOVED me, you'd do thus-and-so." (Children and libs -- but I repeat myself -- are esp. prone to that hidden attack...)

The hidden attack is: "you don't love me!" ("Or else you'd let me manipulate you into doing whatever I want." Yes?)

Instead of *accepting her premise* and trying to argue it's false (a complete non-winner: "I do SO love you!"); you instead (and this is where Elgin's books excel!) recognize and directly address the *hidden* attack:

With an astonished and hurt look on your face you cry:
"When did you start thinking I don't love you!?"


And BINGO! You've just thrown her on the defence, as she tries to assure you (however falsely) that 'she does NOT think that'!

Suzette Hadyn Elgin's book series: "The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense" is excellent at helping you recognize -- and dealing gracefully with -- the hidden (or not-so-hidden) attacks our enemies (or children) try to pull on us. (She has: The GAofVSD "in Dating," "in Business" and so on. The first one, without a qualifier is a great place to start.

I'm pretty sure you'll feel fine being GRACEFUL at turning away (or attacking in return... ) an attack you can sort-of see, but that isn't out in the open.

She's way feminist. Well, she was -- her books are old, and I read them back when I was a shrill feminist so her feminist novels were not offensive to me, at that time. In fact, her first novel "Native Tongue" gave me a lot of things to think about. Not so much about feminism (it helps cement the "men are mean and unfair crap"), but about how we choose our words: how casual or careless 'cliche' speech muddies out point(s). (As an editor, that was quite meaningful to me, where the feminist crap wasn't so much.)

Take a look, try one "Gentle Art" out: recognizing when an attack has been thrown at you -- and being flexible enough to "yield and redirect" as we learn in tai chi -- in amazingly helpful!



Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) January 23, 2017 9:26 AM  

So fat shaming is evil? Man, I really need to reconsider rebuking people for sins such as gluttony.

Evil = feelbads

Anonymous George January 23, 2017 9:26 AM  

Theirs is the nice and broad and easy way.

On the contrary, adopting the dirty tactics of your enemy so that you can have worldly "victories" is the easiest - and most tempting - thing you can do.

Its the way of the world which is so seductive, which evil wants us to adopt. We must never do so.

It's not the tactics that make them (or us) evil. It's the objective that they're working towards.

You could not be more wrong, to the peril of your soul.

Vox will delete this message in a few moments, you can be sure, but I hope it reaches you before that.

Blogger modsquad January 23, 2017 9:27 AM  

You don't fight them with logic because their thoughts aren't based on logic. You don't fight with politics, because that's their religion and they won't denounce their god. You go back to the beginning, the foundation of their biological nature, and bring their SMV into question:

"Do you have something in your teeth?"

Anonymous wEz January 23, 2017 9:29 AM  

I usually use a combination of garlic and holy water. And if all else fails a stake through the heart tends to do the trick. I have yet to find any other way.

Blogger Lovekraft January 23, 2017 9:30 AM  

Ask them to defend abortion. Put them on the defensive. Get them to realize their movement is resulting in very real decisions.

Of course you'll get the frantic response, but you haven't allowed yourself to be on the attack. Keep pressing.

Blogger WK January 23, 2017 9:32 AM  

>>so I recommend that ER and other women in her position simply unleash their inner bitches and start fighting back using the natural weapons that God gave them.<<

Use and move towards the truth. God is truth, centering your argument on truth centers on Him. Seeking what is true bears witness to one's faith and as it becomes habit, strengthens.

Luke 12:11 'When they take you before synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how to defend yourselves or what to say,

12 because when the time comes, the Holy Spirit will teach you what you should say.'

Anonymous ZhukovG January 23, 2017 9:33 AM  

@George, You are not the first to whisper venomous words, serpent.

Blogger chris January 23, 2017 9:35 AM  

Look at the ways SJW women attack right wing men, and then do that to them.

Accuse them of sexual harassment and making you feel unsafe and being creepy and gaslighting and mansplaining. Basically, all the tactics they use against white men can be used by right wing white women against them.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora January 23, 2017 9:35 AM  

>using rhetoric is a dirty tactic and makes you evil
>use rhetoric by calling VD a servant of the devil
>therefore be evil

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) January 23, 2017 9:36 AM  

For the record, these are the specific tactics Vox suggested:

Take the passive-aggressive tactics of your SJW enemies as a model and use them to pursue your own objectives. Engage in your own whisper campaigns. Exclude those whom you know to be on the other side. Behave like Mean Girls and Heathers to bully and badger the other women into complying to your will. Tear them down psychologically with little passive-aggressive comments and damn them with faint praise and back-handed compliments.

None of them are intrinsically evil. Most of them are just female group dynamics.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) January 23, 2017 9:37 AM  

>using rhetoric is a dirty tactic and makes you evil
>use rhetoric by calling VD a servant of the devil
>therefore be evil


QED

Blogger Sagramore January 23, 2017 9:37 AM  

Recently showed an old friend my first SJW kill. She remarked that this woman (who was known in the press) could rationalize murder. That stuck with me.

Anonymous Rocklea January 23, 2017 9:38 AM  

George said:
"Vox will delete this message in a few moments, you can be sure, but I hope it reaches you before that."

And yet it is still there George, both a liar and a false prophet. Not to mention your respect of servants of the devil.

Blogger haus frau January 23, 2017 9:39 AM  

". You put the SJWs in a "box" and never take anything they say seriously, but you also don't transform into one of them and begin using their tactics."

Oh good greif. Who le Wormtongue in?

Anonymous George January 23, 2017 9:40 AM  

You guys are trying to use the One Ring against Sauron , but that doesn't work.

But you don't see it, and nothing I say will make any difference.

You really think using the One Ring against Sauron is the smart thing to do, and have no insight into the nature of evil.

Blogger Lovekraft January 23, 2017 9:40 AM  

What does this George actually think of feminism? If he thinks of it as anything other than one head of an anti-civilation snake, he's in denial.

Also note that I skimmed through the comments after posting and found abortion several times. This should tell you something.

Years ago at work I debated a glazey-eyed blond (who later married a muslim, so there you go) about abortion and told her that even though it is a personal decision, it is a REFLECTION of her society, of which I am a member.

She was stunned to realize that her ideology may actually have to be accountable.

Abortion could be the final nail in feminism's coffin. Less babies, male-repelling empowerment, combined with Soros-backed immigration. Connect the dots, ladies.

Anonymous Rocklea January 23, 2017 9:57 AM  

George said:
"You really think using the One Ring against Sauron is the smart thing to do, and have no insight into the nature of evil."

And now you admit you know evil, this encouraging George, accepting you have problem is the first step to recovery.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 9:57 AM  

nothing I say will make any difference.

Of course it won't, George. Because nothing you say is true, except for that.

Blogger Michael Neal January 23, 2017 10:00 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 23, 2017 10:01 AM  

Don't debate, just question, assert and leave.

Excellent point. I have learned a lot from Vox with respect to keeping it short. With rhetoric speakers, one memorable line is worth a thousand paragraphs.

Anonymous Just another commenter January 23, 2017 10:05 AM  

@19 - i like that. Very good passive-aggressive. I've thought about something similar, along the lines of "[she] supports Planned Parenthood. I could never support a program founded by an avowed racists and eugenicist that thought duping blacks into murdering their own children in the guise of 'choice' in order to reduce the number of defectives and inferior blacks in the population was a good thing." Or something like that. Hits the "racist" and "dupe" buttons in one swoop.

Blogger Elocutioner January 23, 2017 10:06 AM  

Lukewarm cucks finish last and are consumed by the evil society they allowed to flourish because they were too womanly to even name evil to its face. May your cloak keep you warm.

Blogger Edwin January 23, 2017 10:08 AM  

"If you don't think you can do it, ask your husband". Excelent advice Vox!

Anonymous BBGKB January 23, 2017 10:08 AM  

SJW'S are the creatures that believe that a little pedophilia would be good for your children
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article128071639.html 40-year-old Florida woman accused of sex with 3 teens at her child’s party

but that Corey (my step daughter ) is very un-christ like for posting such an insulting

Judo Christ got all the fat merchants to move when he flipped their tables and chased them with a whip.

You put the SJWs in a "box" and never take anything they say seriously

How can you hear them if there is 6' of dirt over the box?


OT: Women and moslems https://www.lewrockwell.com/political-theatre/rapefugees-livestream-gang-rape/

Blogger Rabbi B January 23, 2017 10:14 AM  

If you don't think you can do it, ask your husband. He might be able to refresh your memory and remind you of certain tactics that are clearly at your disposal.

Oh man. Who else but the Dark Lord can offer sage advice while administering a shiv at the same time? This was only one of many in the OP.

"Use the natural weapons God gave you and unleash your inner bitch!" Oh, my sides.

Blogger Knight Of the Realm January 23, 2017 10:15 AM  

A great Monday! I am watching Trump meeting with businessmen before signing some executive orders while reading VOX! This lady can be very effective Warrior in her sphere of influence since she is actually trying to learn; as can we all. Love to see a chucktard(George) slapped down! Really couldn't be a better Monday!

Blogger praetorian January 23, 2017 10:15 AM  

You guys are trying to use the One Ring against Sauron , but that doesn't work.

Nice guy conservatism couldn't even conserve women's bathrooms, m'cuck.

Anonymous George January 23, 2017 10:20 AM  

Michael Neil, I don't deny Vox is right from a worldly point of view. In the short term, the tactics Vox recommends are undoubtedly effective. There can be no doubt about that - in the short term. Vox understands the lowest levels of human functioning very well and since we live in a debased culture without religion, the lowest levels are where most people dwell.

Vox himself is an excellent pupil of the left. He learns from them what works in this day and age and its apparent that most of his emotional and intellectual life is spent on this level anyways.

But there are higher goals than worldly success. You're not supposed to chase after worldly success using any means at your disposal. In fact, your specifically not supposed to do this. Its extremely dangerous.

And what's more, there is a sense in which "weakness" - love - is in the long term a far more powerful strategy than the short term gain in worldly success by using worldly tactics. The world functions on paradox in the long term.

In the long term, using the tactics Vox recommends guarantees the alt right will be undermined from within as people who don't care about the values and only want power will say whatever they have to to gain power over the alt right from within and twist it to their own ends.

It will suffer the fate of all revolutions because its tactics are about gaining power.

And so it goes.

But it's a subtle thing, and hard to see. The easy thing is to reach for power any way you can. The hard thing is to have self control, and always has been.

Even your friends who don't disrespect your new found aggressiveness - they are the sorts who care for power, they don't care who wields it or under what banner.

Blogger wreckage January 23, 2017 10:22 AM  

@60, I'd separate those out. You want one theme so you can bang on it every time they open their mouth.

Then, when they're ready for that, hit them with a different one.

Baby-murder first. Hammer it home.

Then NEXT time go for "I had no idea that they killed so many black babies!" No more than that! JUST go on about the black babies.

Only after that, in a later encounter, do you get to your next point: you were so upset by the murder of babies, and then by the murder of black babies, that you did some research and found out that that was always the goal, the only goal; it wasn't choice! It wasn't freedom! They really did just want to kill babies, as long as it was mostly black babies!

But keep all these separate. Doing them all at once is confusing and allows the target to worm out of one by attacking another.

Step one: why do you hate me for wanting to save babies? Why are you so angry?

Step two: did you realise they kill BLACK BABIES? I had no idea! Now i even more want to save babies. I am so upset that you got angry at me for wanting to save babies, but this new fact makes me super determined to save babies, even though you are angry and don't understand and I didn't mean to upset you but babies.

Step three: I was so determined to save babies that I started reading about why they killed so many black babies, who I also was determined to save, and that's how i found out they are just murderers! I thought they really believed all that stuff but they never did! Can you believe this? They lied to us! They lied! I am ever more determined to save babies and I am sorry that makes you angry, but I don't see how you can be angry at me when it was them that lied to you.

Blogger Michael Neal January 23, 2017 10:24 AM  

power and winning are all that matters or true evil and their ideas will rule us all by exerting their power instead

Anonymous Rocklea January 23, 2017 10:24 AM  

You are such a fuckwhit George.

Blogger wreckage January 23, 2017 10:25 AM  

For step three you should demand that they read a book (of your choosing), but NOT by a famous right wing pundit! If they attack you, keep telling them to read the book. Wait to see if anyone else then wants the book, and lend it - or several copies - around. But ONLY push your adversary to read it! Everyone else, err on the side of being coy. Don't even slightly push.

Blogger Michael Neal January 23, 2017 10:29 AM  

look at this for example, the Student for Life did not take no for an answer when they were denied a spot in the cat lady march on Saturday. They just went to the front of the line instead of being polite and waiting for permission they would never get.

Many would consider this rude and un-christ like

Assert yourself or lose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNYYc0L8Kwo

Blogger Michael Neal January 23, 2017 10:31 AM  

that was the biggest shiv I saw all weekend by nice christian college students who are braver than the vast majority of cuckservatives out there from older generations

Blogger Deplorable Gaiseric January 23, 2017 10:32 AM  

Michael Neal wrote:George as someone myself who disagreed with Vox previously, I understand where he is coming from and he is right. When I began speaking up and calling people anti-white racists and cucks and all kinds of of things in response to their attacks I honestly thought I was going to lose half of my friends. But so far very few people have left and none of who I care about.I have actually converted people to the cause. Its getting addictive being a dick and people like it so long as you maintain a level of composure and are not the initial aggressor. Punch them in the mouth verbally. We have been defeated repeatedly being the nice guys, nobody respects nice guys. They will praise your niceness and how you lost being such a kind person but pity you for being a loser.
If you have issues with "being a dick" because of attitudes that mimic George's churchian hand-wringing and couch-fainting, just think of yourself as following the example of Elijah when surrounded by priest of Baal.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 10:34 AM  

In the long term, using the tactics Vox recommends guarantees the alt right will be undermined from within as people who don't care about the values and only want power will say whatever they have to to gain power over the alt right from within and twist it to their own ends.

Conservatives refused to use the Left's tactics and wound up being undermined from within. So, you obviously have it backwards, George.

Also, you're a liar and your predictive model has repeatedly failed. Let's not forget that.

Blogger Michael Neal January 23, 2017 10:36 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 23, 2017 10:39 AM  

@63. This Judo Christ guy sounds like an okay dude, I'd follow him if he asked me.

Keep Judeo Christ the hell away from me though.

Blogger Rabbi B January 23, 2017 10:50 AM  

@67 George

"There can be no doubt about that - in the short term."

Do you think David had any reservations about using Goliath's sword to finish the job?

Stop moralizing. It's nauseating, not to mention boring.

Blogger Derek Kite January 23, 2017 10:51 AM  

First be clear of the issues. Very clear. There is right and wrong, and understand the line very clearly.

If someone is doing or suggesting something that is wrong, the course of action is obvious.

Manipulative people use a strategy of changing the rules to their benefit. A paedophile convinces a child that is is fun and not wrong, and then put the blame on the child.

From then it is simply a matter of standing your ground and being smart in doing so.

Remember that the only power people have over you is fear. If you have no fear, they have no power. If you have no fear, you will see fear in their eyes because they recognise their vulnerability. That isn't the end; their intent will be to cause you to fear because that is all they know. Don't, and cause them to fear in return.

Blogger Markku January 23, 2017 10:54 AM  

Conservatives are absolutely infatuated with losing. Losing is their favorite game.

Blogger Sheila4g January 23, 2017 10:59 AM  

I don't hang around or amongst groups of women so I can't speak to the group dynamics, but one thing that's helped me (even though I'm more combative than many women while simultaneously a loner) has been practicing ahead of time good rhetorical responses to anticipated SJW comments/attacks/situations. I've gotten fairly comfortable doing so online, but often need a few seconds or minutes to clarify the best rhetorical response. I'm not nearly quick enough on my feet in a verbal confrontation (perhaps men are so much better in this regard because of their natural interaction with each other - straightforward and/or ragging on one another rather than passive/aggressive and bitchy) so while I have sufficient aggression to respond appropriately, I don't always have the right words. Think of various responses ahead of time and don't be afraid to "hurt" someone's feelings. Their whole modus operandi is viewing the world as an extension of themselves and their feelings, and the best rhetorical "shiv" is to reframe things and put them in their place (i.e. insignificant and worthless in dealing with today's reality). I used to read Vox's comments attacking someone's appearance (fat or ugly or whatever) in response to political disagreements and considered it a side point or juvenile, but he's right. It gets to the heart of the attacker's insecurity from which he's basing his entire point of view and attacking you. So don't be afraid to make it personal.

Blogger Beau January 23, 2017 11:15 AM  

If you don't think you can do it, ask your husband. He might be able to refresh your memory and remind you of certain tactics that are clearly at your disposal.

* hearty chuckle *

Anonymous Crossphased January 23, 2017 11:15 AM  

Christians who are feeling discouraged today, or discouraged about fighting the SJW's: Isaiah 41 has some valuable encouragement.

Blogger Iowahine January 23, 2017 11:17 AM  

Shelia4g - It gets to the heart of the attacker's insecurity from which he's basing his entire point of view and attacking you. So don't be afraid to make it personal.

Good observation and the reminder that women are fear-based; yet, the age of feminism has convince most women to believe the lie that they are the true strong sex. Remind your female attackers they are propelled by false beliefs built upon their own fears (which, in my observation can best be alleviate by submission to a male. A woman's strongest position has always been this: ability to attract a powerful male and cultivate his loyalty and protection. Go there every time.

Blogger Commenter 2525 January 23, 2017 11:20 AM  

Search or follow Spacebunny on twitter. She's an excellent example of tough grace, dear.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 23, 2017 11:23 AM  

Stop being mean to George. He's busy being the most noble corpse in the ditch.

Anonymous RB84 January 23, 2017 11:29 AM  

Vox - what would you do if you realized after you thought you married a moderate many year ago, that in the throws of a midlife crisis, your wife had morphed into one of thee passive-aggressive full bore SJW types? Not only that but was interested in pursuing divorce, as she now sees herself needing to be free, independent, and pursue happiness for herself outside of the relationships with those she now identifies with more closely. The prior core values once thought shared, faith, family, integrity, loyalty, honesty, all discarded or devalued. Would there be any reason in your mind not to fully pursue the best divorce settlement as possible from your own end as well?

Blogger Beau January 23, 2017 11:32 AM  

ER,

Perhaps part of your aversion to conflict is a personal commitment to being a gentle and quiet spirit. My wife certainly is - but she can be tough as nails if called up. If you can scold children into right conduct, then you are perfectly qualified to engage SJWs; after all they are only arrested-moral-development children. A firm "No" will utterly shock them. Be prepared to cut them loose.

Blogger Phelps January 23, 2017 11:51 AM  

She needs to identify the ringleaders, and relentlessly outgroup them.

"Of course she would say that."

"Well, we all know why she would want (policy X)."

"I can't believe she posted X on facebook. Like we're all supposed to see that and just act like it's normal?"

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 11:56 AM  

Vox - what would you do if you realized after you thought you married a moderate many year ago, that in the throws of a midlife crisis, your wife had morphed into one of thee passive-aggressive full bore SJW types? Not only that but was interested in pursuing divorce, as she now sees herself needing to be free, independent, and pursue happiness for herself outside of the relationships with those she now identifies with more closely.

If a woman wants a divorce, then don't hesitate to give her one. I don't believe in fighting for a relationship or spending time with people who don't want me around.

People are going to do what they are going to do. It's not my job to attempt to control their desires, thoughts, or actions.

Anonymous Red Cabbage January 23, 2017 11:57 AM  

Thanks for that. For many years I have striven to give up bitchiness, because I associate it with evil feminists. Maybe it's time to go "Steel Magnolia."

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 11:58 AM  

I used to read Vox's comments attacking someone's appearance (fat or ugly or whatever) in response to political disagreements and considered it a side point or juvenile, but he's right.

They are juvenile side points. In such cases, so are the interlocutor's points. You have to speak the language of the other side or they won't understand you.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 23, 2017 12:09 PM  

Conservatives are absolutely infatuated with losing. Losing is their favorite game.

The Real Winners, the Secret Winners, are the ones who lose most nobly.

The r-selected Olympics would be a sorry, sorry sight.

Blogger GracieLou January 23, 2017 12:15 PM  

The thing I most admire about Ann Coulter is the way she can take a punch, she’s fan-tastic. For many of us, hitting isn’t the problem. The problem is the fear of pushback. Which is why “Put down that doughnut” is especially effective on women. A short, sharp, shock (Pink Floyd) that Jesus used, “Get behind me Satan” is a verbal slap to snap someone out of hysteria and as a bonus, it’s funny.

My husband, a Voxian beta (the Golden Retrievers, the Nigel Farages of the male hierarchy) is master of the humorous good-natured slap mock. He gets his point across while still managing to be universally beloved. But that’s highly advanced PR mojo, beyond the reach of mere mortals. For most of us, fighting means people won’t like us. That’s hard for women. Also, fighting means tapping into our dark side. I come from a long line of she-devils. One time, my mother, forgetting to take her “get-along pills” got thrown out of a Home Depot. Imagine how bad an eighty-year-old woman would have to be to get thrown out of a hardware store. One would like to keep the inner Tasmanian in high-security lockdown, but does one have the luxury? God doesn’t have many friends left.

It helps to remember that we will all face a universal judgement one day and to quote Rick in Casablanca, “I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that.”

On a practical note, it helps to think of cultural warfare as a spiritual field hospital. You triage. Assess the patient, how far gone are they? If they show signs of consciousness you might be able to bring them along. If they’ve temporarily jumped the shark, a shock might work. If they’re seriously diseased, you need to focus on saving yourself and others. Sometimes that takes the form of open confrontation and/or quarantine and sometimes, if they are really bubonic, you cut them off and salt the earth. Rest assured, this is what Jesus would do. He always asked, “Do you WANT to be healed?” Not everyone does, that’s why Hell exists.

I have done, and am in the process of doing all that spiritual EMT work. Does it hurt? Yes. Is there a lot of adrenaline involved? Yes. Do I like being “mean” to people? No. Do I like being hated? No. Do I hate losing friends who were fun and tolerant of my weirdness? Yes. Does it get easier? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes. Why? Because it is right and just.

Blogger haus frau January 23, 2017 12:15 PM  

@91 bitchyness is a great weapon when sharpened and aimed at the appropriate target. The term bitch comes from dogs, of course, and dog bitches are wonderful creatures who fight for their own

To the noble conservatives who hold themselves above the frey....if your principles are worth more than winning this world for Christ then you are fighting for the other team no matter how much Christian window dressing you pile on.

Anonymous Susan January 23, 2017 12:28 PM  

@78

Rabbi B, I saw a photo of that sword one time a number of years ago. It was very impressive. The Sword of David is a national treasure to Israel.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here yet that I can see is Southern women. Southern women have mastered the fine art of "choking the cat with butter".

Some of the finest insults I have ever heard in my life have been delivered in the most delightful accents and sweetest voices.

Anonymous Stickwick January 23, 2017 12:42 PM  

George: With respect to Vox ... Vox, being a servant of the devil...

Speaking out of both sides of his mouth, with forked tongue. I shuddered with revulsion at George's words, a reliable indicator that he's a Gamma.

haus frau: ...if your principles are worth more than winning this world for Christ then you are fighting for the other team no matter how much Christian window dressing you pile on.

Well said.

Blogger Escoffier January 23, 2017 12:46 PM  

Sagramore wrote:Recently showed an old friend my first SJW kill. She remarked that this woman (who was known in the press) could rationalize murder. That stuck with me.



Any woman could this is why Scripture is so remarkably clear that women are not to be in charge of any aspect of the Church.

Anonymous Bird on a Wing January 23, 2017 12:47 PM  

I am posting this exchange I had two years ago for any women looking for a template and some encouragement. I haven't read any of the comments yet, so I will do so and then if anyone has questions, I would be happy to discuss. My background is in Rhetoric and Communication. I am an Evangelical Christian American woman, and an INTJ.

----------------------------------------

Anne: If this is true, then No more Target shopping for me! I've already distanced myself from Target when they quit allowing the Salvation Army to ring their bell! Sad!! This is my personal opinion so there is no need for a debate on my page, Thx!

REMOVING GENDER LABELS: Target stores will no longer have 'boys' and 'girls' sections in most of the children's departments in their stores. The chain is removing gender labels from toys and bedding sections after customers complained about gender stereotyping.

Greta: I haven't followed the details of the story but from what I understand they are removing it from some sections so girls and boys don't get labeled at an early age. As in "girl toys"= dolls, all pink, kitchen sets, etc. and "boys toys"= building sets, tools, action figures, etc. I don't think it's a bad idea. Why should a girl have to shop in an aisle mark "boys" if they also want to buy a building set or vice versa. I remember in elementary school all girls had to take Home Ec while the boys in their class built some cool stuff. I hated that class but we were not allowed to switch. I studied computer science and women not only were a minority in College but also in the corporate world. Maybe taking away labels from toys gives girls and boys the freedom to play with what they want, not what society dictates them to play with.

Jessica: No. Anyone with eyes can see that boys and girls are different. Guilt trips don't work anymore. Everyone is sick and tired of all the propaganda and political correctness.

Greta: Jessica, no one is saying that they are not different. I didn't even view it as PC more to stop labeling kids in a young age. Back in my Kindergarten days there was a boy corner and a girl corner. I guess you can imagine the toys you found in each playgroup. Over the years they went away with it and I am glad. Why should girls be labeled as domestic and nurturing. There is a reason why you don't find many women with engineering/technology degrees. It's not that they are not interested in it, it's because they are told from a very young age to stay away from it. But that's just my 2 cents.

Jessica: Boys LIKE to play with trucks. Girls LIKE to play with dolls. Everyone knows this. Science has tested this, irrefutably. To say otherwise is politically correct propaganda. Target is unnecessarily antagonizing their customers, and their bottom line will suffer accordingly in the future.

(Continued)

Blogger Dirk Manly January 23, 2017 12:47 PM  

George
Jesus FREQUENTLY lavished scorn and verbal abuse on the pharisees and other calculating evil-doers. Why do you hate Jesus, George?

Anonymous Bird on a Wing January 23, 2017 12:48 PM  

Continued from @99

Amanda: I wasnt going to join the debate on the but my daughters like to play with dolls. AND trucks and legos and building blocks. My son plays with trucks. AND his sisters barbies and my little ponies. I am not opposed to doing away with labeling the grid walls pink and blue and having it say boys items and girls. I feel like things geared toward girls that are sicence minded are dumbed down and have way less to do with the actual sicence than the like items that are geared tward the male counterparts. I compleely am with Greta, kids are kids and can figure out what they like on their own

Greta: I never played with dolls. Maybe I am gender confused and never even knew it LOL. Let's just agree to disagree smile emoticon

Marie: I hated dolls and I hated to be forced to play with them just because of my gender. I would rip the heads off and throw them in the trash hahaha. I hated that boys got to take their shirt off and girls couldn't. I practically hated any answer that stated "because you are a girl.... That's why!" Lol now my daughter, on the other hand, loves dolls and everything "girly" but if she didn't, I would def understand:) I get labels from a convenience stance but I'll take my kids down any aisle they want.

Jessica: Ask anyone in any language group in any part of the world "what do little girls like to play with?" the answer will be -- dolls. The only people who say otherwise are the politically correct who are selling the bizarre propaganda that little girls don't like to play with dolls. Normal people find this very strange, and yet very amusing.

Greta: Jessica, why are you so condescending? There are girls that don't like dolls. I was one of them and I don't remember my sisters playing with dolls either. It's not a big deal and we all turned out perfectly "normal". Despite people like you finding it strange and amusing! And maybe it's people like you who label kids at a very young age that contribute to the problem that there are not many women in the science/engineering world.

Jessica: Personal attacks are completely unnecessary. Politically correct people are trying to make normal girl playtime into something deviant. Don't be surprised to see pushback. The truth is not mean or deviant. It is the truth.

Greta: I didn't attack you, that's not my style. You were being condescending and I just pointed out a problem in this society which we obviously don't agree on.

Jessica: It is remarkable to find disagreement with such a commonplace statement as -- little girls like to play with dolls. And yes, political correctness is very condescending to normal people who like to tell the truth.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 23, 2017 12:53 PM  

@Sagramore
No details for us to savor and learn from?

Blogger Were-Puppy January 23, 2017 1:04 PM  

Just tell them their pussy hat makes them look fat, or say "Shut up Meg"
https://i.imgflip.com/1i73ha.jpg

Blogger Were-Puppy January 23, 2017 1:07 PM  

@9 haus frau
I ran across something like that on Twitter. I just posted "Stop virtue signalling, Churchian" and they dropped it lol

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 1:09 PM  

I am posting this exchange I had two years ago for any women looking for a template and some encouragement. I haven't read any of the comments yet, so I will do so and then if anyone has questions, I would be happy to discuss. My background is in Rhetoric and Communication. I am an Evangelical Christian American woman, and an INTJ.

I would have just called Greta a fat, ugly lesbian and told her to stop hitting on me.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 23, 2017 1:10 PM  

In the ditch is certainly where a traitor like George belongs...with an exit wound where his face would normally be.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 23, 2017 1:14 PM  

Rb84
Drain your bank accounts and file for divorce so that she gets the shock of being served. If she's bluffing as a domination strategy, she'll be on her knees begging you to stop the legal action.

Blogger Marsh January 23, 2017 1:20 PM  

This post is right up my alley. I too am a homeschool mom, who comes here in part to learn strength. And I get that in spades from Vox and the rest of you.

I want to be a fighter too, but it is a real struggle. I was not a mean girl in HS and do not fight w/ my DH. I do argue, but am never mean.

I am in the middle of a debate w/ a leftist who just moved the goalposts from "Trump has no plans or specifics to his Urban renewal idea." To"Well, they aren't really plans..." when I gave him a link most definitely showing some of his ideas. He called me "dear" and "well intentioned" but insisted they weren't real plans.

I responded,"and moving the goalposts isn't intellectually honest." ( see how lame?)

He countered by pretendinv not to know what I meant and started asking me to explain Trump's plan. I wish I knew how to end the conversation by hitting him.

Blogger Mr. B.A.D. January 23, 2017 1:25 PM  

My advice to the lady is to simply find new social circles. Women are such herd creatures that she will never be able to mount an effective defense unless she has at least one herd to fall back on. It is most likely that she is fully capable of flipping the bitch switch but her programming won't let her go against the herd.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 23, 2017 1:26 PM  

@108 Marsh

Say "Why are you acting so gay lately?"

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 1:54 PM  

He countered by pretendinv not to know what I meant and started asking me to explain Trump's plan. I wish I knew how to end the conversation by hitting him.

You're a liar. Why do you lie? Why did you lie here? Why did you lie about lying?

Anonymous Bird on a Wing January 23, 2017 1:56 PM  

I would have just called Greta a fat, ugly lesbian and told her to stop hitting on me.

My husband used to work with her husband. We are all military wives. This was a performance piece for the other lurking military wives, with whom we all have personal relationships.

My strategic goals were to out-group the SJW, and encourage the shy wives who secretly agree with me, so they don't feel alone. I wanted to plant the seed in the minds of the shy ones that THIS IS WORTH A FIGHT. If I am a strong verbal champion, this produces an atmosphere where they can feel comfortable and align themselves with what is true and right, and maybe in the future, they will be encouraged to speak up.

I knew I had succeeded in this primary strategy when another woman replied to the original post after I had completed my comment bombing run with the SJW. The other lady piped up out of the blue and said something to the effect of, "I'm so tired of all the politically correct stuff that's going on right now."

And I thought, BINGO! Target successful acquired.

As far as the lesbian accusation angle: I would have failed in my primary strategy if I had used that tactic in that particular forum. I would have looked like the Mean Girl. Instead, I turned it around, and made the other women see what a Mean Girl the SJW actually was. The thing about women is that the first one to Mean Girl loses all her moral authority.

Once the SJW goes Obvious Mean Girl, however, IT IS ON LIKE DONKEY KONG!

Also, accusing her of being a lesbian would have shamed my husband, and that will NEVER, EVER, EVER happen. Period.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 1:58 PM  

I responded,"and moving the goalposts isn't intellectually honest." ( see how lame?)

The reason this is ineffectually is that you're not pinning it on him. You're talking about something that may, or may not, be related to something he did.

You have to hit them. Directly. You - YOU - are lying. You know you are lying. You said X before and now you are saying Y. Why won't you admit that you lied? You're not fooling anyone, we all saw what you wrote before.

See the difference? By failing to pin it on him, you give him an easy out. "Well, I wasn't doing that." That puts the burden on you to prove he was.

They're snakes. You have to understand that they are snakes and they will wriggle out of everything... if you give them the space to do so.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 1:59 PM  

The thing about women is that the first one to Mean Girl loses all her moral authority.

So? Women all follow the Mean Girl around and do what she tells them to do. So be the Mean Girl.

Blogger haus frau January 23, 2017 2:03 PM  

I have to correct the record for my husband after showing him this blog post. I pretty well butchered the summary of events. His response was not to tell the churchian poster that the meme was a joke. That was my step daughter's response. His response was much more direct.
The churchian woman called the facebook meme evil and this is the gist of the post he made in response:
"What's evil about this post? What's evil is all the women who sat and did nothing under Obama and now they're marching for the right to abort babies"
This is the best I can remember anyway. Step-daughter deleted the post.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 2:06 PM  

His response was not to tell the churchian poster that the meme was a joke. That was my step daughter's response.

Girls and Gammas....

Anonymous Bird on a Wing January 23, 2017 2:09 PM  

Some notes on my strategy:

Use third person language so when they start name-calling you can shame them with moral authority. This is particularly effective in woman v. woman dialog.

When other lurking women start piping up in order to out-group you, pull out the "normal" card and out-group them. Because you're the normal one, not them.

USE THE TRUTH and stick to it.

Choose a few negative words (but not too negative, otherwise you lose moral authority) like, "propaganda" and "politically correct" and use them in every single reply. Repetition is a killer form of rhetoric, and very simple to use.

Use their words against them by re-framing the one who should be ashamed of herself. Again, moral authority is key on this, so don't lose your head and throw away the moral authority you've already asserted.

This is all for a halfway reasonable forum where people already have personal relationships with each other, so the SJWs don't want to appear completely bonkers, and lose face in front of normal people.

Blogger DonReynolds January 23, 2017 2:40 PM  

Angry and Aggressive SJWs.....both the male and female variety are at a keen disadvantage. They insist and they demand obedience from everyone else. All must surrender and cave to their virtue signaling and FREEDOM....individual FREEDOM.....is Kryptonite to SJWs. Just as they have free speech, they cannot deny that same free speech from everyone else. Just as they were free to vote their convictions, everyone else had the same right. Just as they prefer chocolate, others may prefer strawberry or vanilla. SJWs despise power and authority...all the while demanding control of ALL power and authority.
In public, put the noisy ones on notice. They have no right or authority to command the obedience or surrender of anyone. They will not take away the rights of everyone else and call it political correctness ever again.
WE have the same rights as the SJWs. That does not make us equal. That simply means we owe them no obedience. Get loud and indignant BEFORE they put the chains on your wrists and ankles.

Anonymous Bird on a Wing January 23, 2017 2:49 PM  

So? Women all follow the Mean Girl around and do what she tells them to do. So be the Mean Girl.

Women instinctively follow Moral Authority. The Mean Girl who is perceived to possess moral authority will be followed by the go-along crowd. The conflict-avoidant women will just be quiet, even if they don’t agree with the Mean Girl and think she is lying.

Moral authority is the observed congruence between one’s words and one’s actions.

A woman who stands up to the Lying Mean Girl and demonstrates the lack of congruence between her words and her actions rips away her moral authority. That woman may or may not be perceived as the New Mean Girl, it depends if you’re in the go-along crowd or are a quiet conflict-avoidant woman who saw the lie in the first place.

Quite frankly, I don’t care if I’m seen as the New Mean Girl by the hangers-on because I’m INTJ. As long as I know I’m encouraging the quiet women and I see a need and an opportunity to change the group dynamics, I’ll do it.

Blogger Natalie January 23, 2017 2:56 PM  

Bird on a Wing - I think part of the approach is whether you're trying to be the smart/sane one in the room or just tear down the SJW and send her crying into a corner. I have occasionally done both at the same time, but it's hard.

So when I'm fairly sure other moms are watching I'll tend more towards explaining my steps and walking through the reasoning in public so to speak. It actually got some really good conversations happening in private. I've also taken the chance to red pill them a bit by pointing out how logic clearly doesn't work on these people. I'm demonstrating for other people why said person is whackadoodle. Her mental breakdown is nice but not necessary to my end goal.

OTOH it was HILARIOUS the time I sent a mom into a sputtering break down simply by saying she was choosing a stranger's welfare over that of her own kids because of her immigration stance.

"Why are you choosing to put your kid's welfare behind that of a complete stranger?"

"I'm not - but all lives are precious and worth saving!"

"Yes, you are because because 'saving' this other life puts your kids at risk. You are putting your kids in danger for someone you don't even know."

"That's not my choice to make. These people just need a chance."

"You're voting and advocating for policies that will hurt your kids. That's a choice. That's what YOU are actively choosing for your family."

It was beautiful. She really couldn't handle it. And I didn't even call her fat (although she is with a dyke haircut to match).

Blogger VFM #7634 January 23, 2017 2:56 PM  

Hey George, got a quote for ya:

“Kindness is for fools! They want them to be treated with oil, soap, and caresses but they ought to be beaten with fists! In a duel you don’t count or measure the blows, you strike as you can! War is not made with charity, it is a struggle a duel. If Our Lord were not terrible he would not have given an example in this too. See how he treated the Philistines, the sowers of error, the wolves in sheep’s clothing, the traitors in the temple. He scourged them with whips!”
.

.

.

.
--Pope St. Pius X

Anonymous Bird on a Wing January 23, 2017 3:24 PM  

It actually got some really good conversations happening in private.

Yep, the private one-on-one dialogues are the most productive for using persuasion to change hearts and minds. Listen to the Holy Spirit during those times, and He will almost always direct you down the most productive line towards the specific epiphany He wants to bring to the other woman. Sometimes it only takes a few sentences and an open, sympathetic expression on your face.

Be firm but sympathetic. Always tell the truth.

Anonymous craig January 23, 2017 3:24 PM  

ER, google 'Bless your heart'; read and absorb. 'Bless your heart' can be an effective comeback, said sweetly and patronizingly as if you were talking to a cocker spaniel. It admits no obvious reply. Southern ladies used to learn this art at momma's knee, but nowadays one has to take knowledge where one can find it.

Outright verbal thrust-and-parry is not for everyone. Verbal sharpness correlates with 'sharp' habits in other areas, being over-favored by over-credentialed SJWs and common in abrasive (((northeastern))) circles -- reasons enough to avoid making it a habit.

Blogger Marsh January 23, 2017 3:42 PM  

Thank you so much, Vox! I took your advice and called him a liar. He was shocked and actually said, "wow, I am lying. Blah blah blah it wasn't a plan."

I replied that indeed he was lying and was a liar. Then he attempted to still argue and call me stupid. I remained firm and told him the opinions of a liar meant nothing to me. A female friend of his tried to help him, but I swatted her away and stayed firm. LOL

I know I pissed some people off, who were reading it, but who cares, right?

Thanks again!

Blogger GracieLou January 23, 2017 4:04 PM  

Bird on a Wing, you effectively paved the way for normies to join the conversation. If there were such a thing as a female gamma, a female gamma-tell would be, "I never played with dolls." You hear it a lot from narcissists, it's girl one-upmanship. And you know it's a lie. My whole life I've never seen one little girl refuse to play with a Barbie, even my diesel dyke niece Amber.

Bless you for jumping in there and sticking with it. I'm sure you saved many an eye-roll. It can be excruciating arguing with women. I'd rather put on a pussy hat and stroll through Chateau Heartiste.

Blogger Doc Rampage January 23, 2017 4:17 PM  

George wrote:If you begin using their tactics, it's the worst thing you can possibly do. You become evil, like them.

George, I expect that you are a person who is not swayed by the rhetorical attacks against you, so let me try a rational response: it is wrong to strike someone, but not if you do it to stop them from striking someone else. It is wrong kill someone, but not if you do it to stop them from killing someone else. In general, physical violence in itself is neither good nor evil; it is good or evil depending on the reasons behind it. Verbal and social attacks are the same. They are neither good nor evil in themselves, but only based on the motivations behind them.

I think you would understand this is if not for an intuition that verbal attacks cannot accomplish anything good. In your mind, they are always childish antics with no effect other than to create anger and spite. However, the reason you feel this way (I speculate) is because they don't have much effect on you. You can't imagine changing your opinion or to avoid verbal abuse. To you, verbal abuse just isn't that big a deal (I'm like this so I'm doing some projection here).

So if you are like that, then you think verbal abuse is without real power and since it could never be used to accomplish anything good, it can never be used for good. But you are wrong in this intuition. It very definitely does have real power over the majority of people. Just because you are insensitive to it does not mean that everyone else is too. Pay attention to the people who are more normal and feel these attacks as real pain, because they can tell you what hurts and how it motivates behavior, just like a properly-applied lash.

Verbal and social attacks can be used to do good, and when used that way, they are good, just like killing to save a life is good.

Anonymous Evolyn January 23, 2017 5:19 PM  

It's time for you to don that 'I am not nice' badge:

"I would just stay quietly in the background except that I see SJWism taking over even my conservative christian and homeschooling circles."

You can either leave, or you can evict the offending SJW. If the other moms join the SJWs, you didn't lose anyone you wanted to know anyway, in fact, I would send the SJW's a thank you card for weeding out the time wasters in your life.

"Those of us moms who voted Trump or who could be described as AltWest try feebly to defend ourselves but we don't do it well."

"Maybe that's because you're not the bickering type, and that's a good thing. Keep it that way (life is nicer without stupid stress), and in any case, your mistake here is to assume that fighting will solve anything (what kind of victory are you looking for? How will that play in (say) 3 month? If you think your can fix it, can you think of an example you observed success? {I can't.}).

Fact is, this is a sink or swim action, some people will make it, others will not, evolution is never fair, but, it's effective.

"Any thoughts or tips on how women can engage in effective rhetoric? It seems we've found ourselves in this battle whether we want to be here or not."

The SJW who is invading your space either stays or is evicted, and don't bother to waste time on that 'reasonable talk' thing either. You cannot reason with nutters, nor can you win anything with them. You however can kick them out unceremoniously, and it's not something you should spend much time planning either.

Just be straight forward about not wanting to have this person in your life and don't get entangled by engaging to 'talk' about why you feel this way. Because said SJWs really like that kind of shame game.

If it's your social group that's being colonised, set up meetings without the SJW(s) and tell others not to bring them. Choice is: you or them. No compromise.

If your group is not infected yet, have a chat about how new people are introduced and the need for established members to have a veto on newcomer's attendance. Anyone who does not like it, can start their own group, so can you if the group doesn't respect your wish to have a SJW free zone.

Anonymous Bird on a Wing January 23, 2017 5:34 PM  

Thank you @125 GracieLou, and I agree. Arguing with other women is a total pain in the ass. It can also be the most rewarding thing one can do. Seeing the expression on someone’s face when they get an epiphany from the Holy Spirit is one of the great joys of my life.

I encourage every woman reading this to go ahead and fight SJWs in your church group. Feel free to use the Argument From Christian Normality like I demonstrated above. It is powerful and effective. Like a sharp-edged sword, even!

(Also, read your Bibles so you know what Jesus says is Normal—just sayin’!)

Blogger stephanie fehler January 23, 2017 5:36 PM  

TBH - as a CHristian, very libertarian homeschool mom - i am really picky about who i have around my children. They don't do SUnday School. Period. Because as long as we're together in church, i can undo any damage done by SJW speakers (we are also now at a very small, very very traditional church - it kind of sucks bcz there are not a ton of friends for my kids, but church is supposed to be about learning about God and worshipping Him, and you can do that without ten same-age peers... I feel very strongly that had pastors/rabbis/priests been strong men, and spoken out decades ago, we would not be in this position - but God has been gracious and given us ppl like Milo, who are willing to be loud and get stoned in the cause of free speech and defending our rights. Pray for those who are facing the hardest onslaught, defend them when able by asking examples/proof, and feel free to laugh outright at ppl who spray their weird SJW hysteria around... it's hard. BUt maybe the pendulum is swinging the other direction now.

Blogger VD January 23, 2017 5:40 PM  

Thank you so much, Vox! I took your advice and called him a liar. He was shocked and actually said, "wow, I am lying. Blah blah blah it wasn't a plan."

Speak the truth and evil either crumbles in its face or doubles down and reveals itself for the world to see.

Blogger S. Misanthrope January 23, 2017 5:52 PM  

@24 I've had huge success with this tactic, even in San Francisco. The media does everything it can to make people scared of gun owners, so when you're open and inviting, it completely dispels the suspicion normies experience.

@28 100% correct.

@31 Boss.

@43 Love that one.

@125 Agree. I once saw someone bragging about not liking dolls in a rant against gendered toys on FB. I grew up with her, and she played dolls so much and in such a dull way that I stopped hanging out with her.

I found myself singing a little Sondheim to myself reading this thread: "You're not good, you're not bad, you're just 'nice'. I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right!"

I don't know if I can be that helpful to ER, as I'm one of those ENTJ ladies, but even we Field Marshal types use a variety of tools to persuade and lead. And even a natural leader doesn't always get to be the leader in a particular group.

When I'm wondering how to direct a group in some way, I start by asking myself what do I add to the group? What would be different about the group if I weren't in it? How do the members of the group behave differently because I am there? That tells me the type of influence I naturally have on the group.

Let's say that, if you weren't there, this group of women would be cattier. So the influence that you naturally have on these women is you motivate them to be nicer, without even trying. Then if one of them starts to go in a direction you don't like, you can play the nice card to get her back on track.

Blogger Matthew January 23, 2017 6:15 PM  

Rule of thumb:

Anyone who attacks you with arguments that aren't easily summarized is a liar. Treat him as such.

Blogger Matthew January 23, 2017 6:16 PM  

If you get bad vibes from someone opposing you, high odds he's a liar. Call him out immediately.

Blogger Jose January 23, 2017 6:36 PM  

Ok, so this PUA/MRA/MGTOW stuff, inasmuch as I understand it is a bunch of adaptations to asymmetric "warfare" seen from the viewpoint of the weaker side...

Why not go to the master, then, William S. Lind?

Read "the 4th generation warfare manual," and start managing social interactions as operations aimed at winning the moral level; plus OODA-loop all your social interactions when you have no option to avoid them.

I'd recommend van Creveld too, who I'm sure if he could he would have used "ies" instead of "ycats" to title the book he wrote about the new generation. But his writing style is less action-oriented than Lind.

(I currently self-identify as the set of all sets which do not contain themselves; my pronouns are yes→no/no→yes; correctly address me as "Your Antirecursiveness.")

Blogger Natalie January 23, 2017 7:33 PM  

Here are some more subtle approaches to common SJW/shrew behavior - some tried and some merely thought out.

"General husband demeaning bitching" -> "I've heard a couple stories like these. It makes me so grateful that I chose a man who is so contentious/good with kids/disciplined."
(Subtext - I chose more wisely and therefore have a better "picker" and a higher value husband. Therefore I am higher value than you.)

"Blah blah ashamed of my family/culture because BS reasons." -> Yes, I see the rootlessness of so many young people these days, and I thank God I can point to so many wonderful people in our family/community/heritage."
alternate: "Yes, I used to think that way until I learned more about xyz (insert hate fact)
Subtext - your family must be inferior and/or your understanding of culture/history.

"I really wish our church was more diverse!!" -> "It's a pity these people can't go to their own churches without a bunch of middle class white women assuming there's a problem"

There's obviously a lot more you can say in that line, but the point is to not start an argument (unless you want to that is) but also to just gently poke fun at their worldview/life choices while reinforcing your own.

Blogger Nick S January 23, 2017 8:52 PM  

What I've learned from feminists is that the right to reproduce is a fundamental human right. I'm now demanding the government provide me with fertile women to accept my seeds and bear my children.

Blogger Ez January 23, 2017 10:03 PM  

I'm the OP and thanks, this post (and comments) are super helpful. My husband laughed, particularly at this...

VD wrote:If you don't think you can do it, ask your husband. He might be able to refresh your memory and remind you of certain tactics that are clearly at your disposal.


Blogger Zeroh Tollrants January 23, 2017 10:37 PM  

If off color language & occasional statements about slitting throats of lefties doesn't put you off too terribly, perhaps some ladies, (or fellas!),that are a little more reserved might take some inspiration from the account of @dibutler on Twitter.
Don't be fooled, however, into thinking her tweets are merely hyperbolic or unhinged rhetoric.
I assure you she means every single word.

Blogger somercet January 24, 2017 4:54 PM  

Vox: Your advice to Marsh worked because she was arguing with a man. (Good for her, btw.)

If men go from arguing with men to women, they need to dial down the aggression logarithmically. Saying "No" to a woman is like nuking Hiroshima: she has no idea it's coming and it seems very unfair of you. Really, the arguments are all the same, but the manner changes completely. (Note: for some women, you need to use male-mode rhetoric.) Women-only groups don't say no: they just refuse to say yes and talk in circles until the asker gives up.

Twist all attacks. If she claims you are a racist (and any privilege/structural racism/blacks can't be racist/women can't be sexist attacks are claiming you are racist or sexist) simply refuse any of her "solutions" (i.e., demands for you to perform the Anti-Fascism Monkey Dance) and point out that, since you are a racist against your will, you don't see why you should fight it. Since it's invisible, you can't see it. She wants the man to do it for her: refuse.

Like Cannae: Back up, let her get stuck in the weeds, then encircle and fire at will. If she runs, don't pursue, it's almost always seen as too aggressive.

Blogger Mish in Utah January 25, 2017 12:28 AM  

Thank you, Natalie and Bird! I'm the shy type INFP, and this sort of thing is hard for me. I've been weaponizing my bolder ESFJ friend with talking points, and she's had a great time pushing back on the lefty narrative on FB and in one on one conversations.

I agree that taking a verbal stand is so important for the shy folks.

Abortion is a really good issue, especially the late term ones. My friend had a good discussion with a soft lefty friend of hers who started off strong but when she said the old canard about the relationship between a woman and her doctor not being interfered with, my friend said what's the strongest relationship? Parent and child. So the government should keep out of the parent child relationship, right? No more CPS. Oh no, soft lefty says, they have to protect the children from abuse. Right, my friend rejoined, so abortion kills the child, why is the woman/ doctor relationship off limits again? The lefty stuttered to a halt.

Sigh. I wish that could be me. I get so upset and angry I become incoherent. I can think through that sort of logical conclusion and explain it to my bold friend to use later, but I'm useless myself.

I have a new church calling that will result in a lot of one on one conversations. I'll be rereading this thread for ideas and trying to do my small part. Thanks again to you bold ladies for your courage and example!

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