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Monday, January 16, 2017

No one cares what you want

Jonah Goldberg expresses concerns, concernedly, that Donald Trump will fail to be the kind of president Jonah Goldberg prefers.
I very much want Trump to be a successful conservative president — which is to say, I don’t want him to be a successful statist president. I understand all-too-well that many of Trump’s fans do want him to be a successful statist president. They don’t use the word “statist,” preferring the rough synonym “nationalist.” They either sincerely think, or convincingly pretend to think, that there’s a meaningful difference between a statist and a nationalist. There isn’t. That’s a worthwhile argument to have, and there will be many opportunities to have it down the road. But if Trump is going to be a successful conservative president, I think his biggest fans will have to recognize their own tribalism.
The intrinsic dishonesty of some civic nationalists runs so deep that they do not even appear to recognize it when they make massive blunders like confusing statism with nationalism.

Jonah is smarter than this. He understands the difference between a nation - a group of homogeneous people - and a state - a sovereign political entity. He's written about the Kurds before, so he knows there is a Kurdish nation but not a Kurdish state. He's written about the Soviet Union before, so he knows there was a Soviet state despite there being no such thing as a Soviet nation.

Moreover, conservatives have been overt statists since the first Bush '43 administration. Has Jonah already forgotten "big government conservatism" or the bank bailouts of 2008? The fact is that conservatism is a dying non-ideology, and that's why all the anti-Trumpers and Never Trumpers are beginning to cozy up to the God-Emperor Ascendant, whispering their wicked advice in the hopes that they can influence him.

But it won't do them any good. Their electoral impotence, their intellectual irrelevance, and their lack of character was revealed in last year's primary and general election campaigns. And very, very few of them are indicating that they learned anything from the experience.

And as for tribalism, we readily admit ours. We would just like to see Mr. Goldberg and company be honest about theirs. Given the absence of a strong demographic majority, tribalism and identity politics are the inevitable order of the day. See Thomas Sowell for details.

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142 Comments:

Blogger Sheila4g January 16, 2017 11:06 AM  

Goldberg warns Trump supporters to admit their "tribalism."
The irony and hypocrisy are to be expected.

Blogger Robert Divinity January 16, 2017 11:08 AM  

We should celebrate conservatives have not learned anything. Knowledge might slow their disappearance from political discourse.

Anonymous Faceless January 16, 2017 11:09 AM  

Why would any Trump supporter take his advice? He's somewhere below George Stephanopoulos.

Blogger JACIII January 16, 2017 11:10 AM  

We must make #NeverTrump the new scarlet letter. Never forget #NeverTrump and what its proponents attempted.

Blogger Durandel Almiras January 16, 2017 11:16 AM  

Which books by Sowell do you recommend? A Conflict of Visions? Intellectuals and Race? Black Rednecks and White Liberals?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 16, 2017 11:17 AM  

What are the rules for tribalism in a multicultural state? Of course Jonah will play cuck and scold right and not left.

Blogger praetorian January 16, 2017 11:21 AM  

I think his biggest fans will have to recognize their own tribalism.

My perpetual question: do jews recognize their own hypocrisy and simply flat out lie to us goyim, or is it some sort of self-deception?

Anonymous trev006 January 16, 2017 11:21 AM  

If Americans don't increase their racial awareness, the President will indeed have limited success.

I'm never clicking through to NRO again though. Let them be chained to the free trade anchor, and buried at sea.

Anonymous Smile Of The Shadow January 16, 2017 11:22 AM  

Sounds like someone needs to read Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson as a refresher to remember what words mean.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 16, 2017 11:27 AM  

you know, George Washington was our first Statist-in-Chief. as all the rest of the Founding Fathers were Statists ... because “statist,” is a rough synonym [ of ] “nationalist.

shut the fuck up and go back to Israel you anti-American fucking Jew.

what is the defining characteristic of the Kikeservative?

no, it's not that his first question is, "Is this good for the Jews?"

it's that his first question is always, "How can I use this to my immediate Jewish advantage, even if it's likely to bite me in the ass later?"

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 16, 2017 11:28 AM  

It's a good day to say this, I just want my freedom from jews and blacks amongst many of the crazy groups of the left I want my freedom from.

Free my people

Blogger Rabbi B January 16, 2017 11:28 AM  

Some tribalism is more equal than other tribalism.

Blogger pyrrhus January 16, 2017 11:28 AM  

7."My perpetual question: do jews recognize their own hypocrisy and simply flat out lie to us goyim, or is it some sort of self-deception?"

Honestly, it seems to be some of both. My oldest friend is Jewish, and he will acknowledge that there is a double standard between the US and Israel. But he supports the double standard because his wife is a fanatical zionist...

Blogger Salt January 16, 2017 11:28 AM  

Jonah is smarter than this.

Evidently not.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 16, 2017 11:28 AM  

nota bene:
Kikeservative should never be mistaken for Kekservative. they are mortal enemies.

Blogger Bard January 16, 2017 11:30 AM  

Praetorian,
No self deception at all. Read their own words in the Talmud. They hate goyim and especially Christians. They view them and treat them the same as a Muslim can treat an infidel. It is why Vox is so on point about the Judeo modifier for Christianity. It is literally antichrist.

Blogger Bard January 16, 2017 11:34 AM  

Not on the Jew hate bandwagon. We fellowship with a lot of Isreal first believers and I tell them America first, Isreal first for Jews.

Anonymous JamesV January 16, 2017 11:39 AM  

That a large number of mainstream conservatives who voted for Clinton tells me exactly who their tribe is.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 16, 2017 11:40 AM  

The arrogance of those who opposed Trump and were wrong in every prediction and condemnation they made about him and the campaign over the last year, and now want to brush all that aside without apology or explanation and keep right on preaching at us, is striking.

Blogger Ron January 16, 2017 11:40 AM  

We would just like to see Mr. Goldberg and company be honest about theirs.

Episcopalians?

Blogger pyrrhus January 16, 2017 11:43 AM  

Wildly O/T Jared Diamond and leftist mandarins proven wrong again. North American settlement 24, 000 years ago....https://phys.org/news/2017-01-humans-north-america-years-earlier.html

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 16, 2017 11:47 AM  

17. Bard January 16, 2017 11:34 AM
Not on the Jew hate bandwagon.



i don't hate Jews qua Jews.

i hate Jews who want to cannibalize my nation and forbid to us ALL THE THINGS WHICH THEY DO FOR THEMSELVES.

Jonah Goldberg knows full well all the things that it takes for a successful Nation. that's why he wants those things for Israel.

Jonah Goldberg also knows full well that if you demand the exact opposite for one of your supposed friends, you are destroying that "friend".

does this stop him from advocating for our destruction?

if he wasn't Jewish, *you* would call his actions Treason.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 16, 2017 11:50 AM  

National Review demands a Faceberg profile in order to post comments so i'll put this here:
notice the sub-title on that article?

"For Donald Trump to have a successful conservative presidency, the NeverTrumper Tribe needs grapple with how popular Trump actually is."

a - fixed that for you
b - hire an editor
c - you idiots would have lost three consecutive elections telling us how to do things the "proper" way, nominating Yeb! Bush. a moderate incompetent would shut the hell up out of self knowledge and shame. an arrogant fool follows the Krugman model of demanding twice as much of the retarded crap that's already been shown to Fail.

very Jewish of Jonah, don't you think?

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 16, 2017 11:51 AM  

sorry, should have been ((( NeverTrumper ))) Tribe.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 16, 2017 11:57 AM  

Semi-OT

Here's a thesis that in a Civil War II, the conflict that now seems inevitable, the Left is far better organized and experienced waging political warfare, and that a return to the political violence of the late '60's/'70's favors Leftists.

https://storify.com/sphenoid/days-of-rage-pt-5-finale-what-does-it-portend

I think the Left will do exactly this, in defense of the paradigm they erected these past 50 years. Missing from this discussion is that the Left's success was built on a pervasive embrace of unlimited resources, and the trend has changed to increasingly see resources as very limited.

If the inauguration is disrupted much at all, it will indicate that this Uncivil War is moving from cold to hot, and a consequence cascade has begun.

Time to prepare in earnest?

Anonymous Lawyer Guy January 16, 2017 12:00 PM  

pyrrhus wrote:7."My perpetual question: do jews recognize their own hypocrisy and simply flat out lie to us goyim, or is it some sort of self-deception?"

Honestly, it seems to be some of both. My oldest friend is Jewish, and he will acknowledge that there is a double standard between the US and Israel. But he supports the double standard because his wife is a fanatical zionist...



They know. I went to a top 2 law school, but not a top 2, so we had many Jews from the tier 2 to 4 level of power families.

I think some very few just thought of it as the ways things were. You want job X so your uncle makes some calls. The rest knew exactly what was up and how power works.

There were also some WASP families that had some pull, but they were mostly focused or regional in power, some were powerful in a city metro area or a sector of business. Upper level Jews have contacts everywhere.

Israel is a flash point for them all, though. Suggesting the state is now or has ever done anything wrong triggers the modern "Oy, the Holocaust, Nazis!"--that being 'I reject Antisemitism and won't dialog with you!'

Anonymous VFM #1305 January 16, 2017 12:00 PM  

Jonah Goldberg is a fucking joke. I am very grateful to the Altright in general for pointing out in clear and unequivocal terms the intellectual dishonesty and shameless cowardice of the sub-race that are the cuckservatives. They are traitors, more allied to the left than to the right, but most importantly, enemies of basic decency and enemies of simple people who fight for what's right in the World. Their place is in the gutter, humiliated, ridiculed, tossed aside and left to rot. Sic semper cuckservatives.

Anonymous Icicle January 16, 2017 12:00 PM  

FREE MEL GIBSON!

Blogger rcocean January 16, 2017 12:00 PM  

Is there any reason to push back against Goldberg or Lowery anymore? Their support for Hillary in 2016 showed their true colors. And Jonah has NEVER been a serious thinker. Remember when he proposed we invade Africa to "save it" and build Democracy? Or all his dumb pop culture references?

Anonymous Cary January 16, 2017 12:01 PM  

I would like to note that back at the beginning of the campaign that Jonah thought that Jeb was a perfectly acceptable candidate. This is what pisses me off about the cucks lecturing Trump supporters about "conservatism." These nevertrumpers literally preferred Hillary and would have been happy to give up the Supreme Court to leftism and let the immigrant flow increase over and above the Obama admin. And Trump was somehow worse than that while Jeb would have been great. Take your conservatism and shove it. I support Western Civilization and winning. #altright

Blogger rcocean January 16, 2017 12:02 PM  

Too bad the comment thread is turning into another "lets hate the Joos" trainwreck.

Blogger pyrrhus January 16, 2017 12:03 PM  

As to NRO...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyyoaBa7DaE

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 16, 2017 12:05 PM  

no, it's a "lets hate the Kikeservatives" thread.

Rabbi and SteelPalm and others make quite fine Kekservatives.

Anonymous Icicle January 16, 2017 12:05 PM  

I think some very few just thought of it as the ways things were.

http://m.memegen.com/tuxzux.jpg

Blogger Michael Maier January 16, 2017 12:09 PM  

Rcocean: Can you give me a good reason to NOT look at Jews as the enemy?

Because it sure seems that at every turn, they're stabbing the USA in the back.

Anonymous Patron January 16, 2017 12:09 PM  

He understands the difference between a nation - a group of homogeneous people - and a state - a sovereign political entity.

Does he? Many people use "nation" as short-hand for "nation-state", and even then, they mean "sovereign political entity". To use your example, the Kurdish people aren't a nation / don't have a nation, because there's no sovereign political entity for them. The Jewish people got themselves a nation when Israel was created, the Welsh, Scots, English and some Irish are a part of the nation we call the UK (though they all have their own countries, which are sometimes but not always the same as nations or sovereign political entities), etc.

As for confusing nationalism with statism - if I'm honest, I can see where he's coming from, if you believe that almost all nationalists in the past have also been statists. Looking around today, it still seems to hold true. You'll note I'm using words like "believe" and "seems", quite deliberately. I grant you that Jonah is smarter than this, and so shouldn't be falling into this trap, but hey ho. I think most readers here expect something like that from the National Review crowd :P .

It would be very interesting to see what people like Jonah Goldberg etc would start saying if you could pin them down on some of these definitions and get them to apply some rigorous logic. I suspect a lot of it is down to intellectual laziness and virtue-signalling rather than dishonesty and the latter.

Or my naivete of course :P .

Blogger tz January 16, 2017 12:09 PM  

All of that is annoying, but it can’t hold a candle to the ugliness of emotional correctness. In recent years, we’ve seen how the real crime isn’t conservative intellectual or ideological dissent but conservative emotional dissent. Mozilla’s Brendan Eich being pelted from his job, the perfidious treason of the wedding-cake bakers, the assaults on Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-A, the bonfires of asininity lit every day on college campuses: These have so much less to do with an ideological argument and more to do with the new unwritten and unspoken fatwah: “You will be made to care.”

Care, not know or understand.
They have declared themselves to be the mortal enemy of Christendom, and everything good and decent. The response requires a fighter, not a lawyer. General Sherman or Patton, not McClellan or Powell. War, not diplomacy.

The cucks have been statist while preaching "peace in our time" with the left.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 16, 2017 12:11 PM  

Is there any reason to push back against Goldberg or Lowery anymore?

Maybe not "push back," but "kick around," sure. As long as there are still people who take them seriously as voices for "conservatism," they still have the potential to do damage. They need to be exposed and ridiculed until they shut up or no one listens to them anymore.

Also for the lulz.

Blogger Stilicho January 16, 2017 12:12 PM  

Jonah didn't make a mistake, he simply wants to conflate nationalism/patriotism with big govt statism in the minds of his readers in the hope that they will therefore reject patriotism in favor of Jonah's preferred brand of quasi-globalist neo-connery.

It was no accident that Jonah was. One of the leading voices at NR for the expulsion of Coulter from Conservatism, Inc. Ostensibly for calling some greedy widows (mostly Jewish IIRC) of wall street types killed on 9-11 the "Bitches of East Brunswick" (they wanted to be paid more by the Fed's than what the peons got). Jonah got his Sista Souljah panties all knotted up over that non-event.

Blogger tz January 16, 2017 12:13 PM  

If you don't have a tribe, you will be assigned one whether you like it or not. That is what they fail to understand.
Jews on the day of Krystalnacht could have flown the German flag, had patriotic posters, it wouldn't have mattered no more than when white liberals leave their segre-Gated communities and live in the inner city.

Anonymous #5454 January 16, 2017 12:14 PM  

Jonah no doubt reads what is said here since he comes up fairly often and he knows the quality of the commentary presented and the discussion it drives.

Having said that, I hope that Jonah reads my words and heeds them well: Get a new job. You and your kind are done. You failed miserably.

Anonymous Lit Dog January 16, 2017 12:14 PM  

Remember, the neo-cons supported Mad Dog McCain in 2000 over W, but W still let them in, and we got Iraq etc. They expect to do the same thing with Trump. I don’t think Trump will make the same mistake as W and let the actual card-carrying neocons into his administration. But I fear he may try to make peace with the things they represent such as the Open Door to legal immigration.

Here’s another stanza from Ironman

Without his people’s noble cause
He’ll only make an artful deal—
The press commends his personal growth
If he condemns his race to kneel.

www.DukeDougherty.com/mixed-genre

Anonymous Bobby Farr January 16, 2017 12:19 PM  

What a joke. The lesson of the 2016 election is the continued lack of tribalism among whites. Trump, an anti-immigration nationalist, barely improved on Romney's and McCain's share of the white vote. It shows there is room for the white vote to determine elections in the near future but also shows German levels of cuckiness and self-loathing among many whites.

Anonymous BBGKB January 16, 2017 12:20 PM  

They either sincerely think, or convincingly pretend to think, that there’s a meaningful difference between a statist and a nationalist

The statist is controlled by (((()))) while the nationalist is controlled by the citizens.

Why would any Trump supporter take his advice? He's somewhere below George Stephanopoulos.

Leave the gay jokes to me.

Not on the Jew hate bandwagon. I have jewish exes so its ok.

If the inauguration is disrupted much at all, it will indicate that this Uncivil War is moving from cold to hot, and a consequence cascade has begun. Time to prepare in earnest?

Time to plant fruit/nut trees was 5 years ago. Now is the time for topping off your fish antibiotic supplies & cashews. Its better that the shtf goes down in winter as it will keep the "golden horde" from spreading

Blogger kennymac January 16, 2017 12:24 PM  

BBGKB, why cashews?

Anonymous Icicle January 16, 2017 12:25 PM  

Not on the Jew hate bandwagon. I have jewish exes so its ok.

Why are so many Ashkenazim homosexual? The Caucasian rate seems about 2%. Their rate seems about 10-12%. The Sephardim don't seem to have that.

Blogger Stilicho January 16, 2017 12:33 PM  

And how effective are fish antibiotics for humans? That's a new one for me and I should probably have been aware (courtesy of Uncle Sam).

Anonymous BBGKB January 16, 2017 12:41 PM  

BBGKB, why cashews?

I like them, but they are a nut that doesn't store long. They are impractical to grow in greenhouses for space reasons, and require significant processing. Actually inoculating logs for mushrooms for vit D would be more important for most people. Here is a post from survivalblog, note the initals
https://survivalblog.com/letter-re-vitamins-in-a-grid-down-situation/

Why are so many Ashkenazim homosexual? The Caucasian rate seems about 2%. Their rate seems about 10-12%

They are lazy & they found out they didn't have to put effort into sex if they laid down on their bellies. Also have you meet jewish women?

And how effective are fish antibiotics for humans?

Doomsday preppers stock fish antibiotics because many of them are made in the same factories as human antibiotics, only to use if there are no hospitals functioning after the nigapocalypse . There is data out there on prepper sites. The recipe to make penicillin is at https://www.doomandbloom.net/the-formula-for-penicillin/

as is the recipe for 1930s Quality level insulin https://www.doomandbloom.net/how-to-make-insulin/

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 16, 2017 12:43 PM  

Never heard Goldberg object about Imam al-Duhbya's establishment of the Dept. of Homeland Security. I don't even know if cuckservative is a proper term to describe something as completely mendacious as Goldberg. Neo-Conman is more like it. He's perfectly OK with statism as long as it serves his agenda.

Anonymous To Mock a Killingbird January 16, 2017 12:45 PM  

"Moreover, conservatives have been overt statists since the first Bush '43 administration."

Long before Bush 43 was his father and the Americans with Disabilities Act, which gave the federal government and the Bar sweeping and invasive new powers under the guise of helping the disabled. Like every other surrender to the left, it did nothing to assist HW in his re-election campaign, was decried prior to implementation, and is now thoroughly woven into the political fabric.

That Bush 41 echoed in Clinton, and 43 Obama made me think that had low energy Jeb ran and won, the Democrats would have simply dispensed with their normal paragons of moral turpitude and just ran Satan himself.

Blogger tuberman January 16, 2017 12:45 PM  

The whole Jewish thing is, well it's complicated. I usually take Jared Taylor's position and just stay away from the arguments, and not because I am afraid, but I haven't got it completely figured out yet. But the people crying "Zionists are the problem" all the time are over simplistic IMO. I do not want to attack them, as I often agree with many other thing they say, and some of what they say about Jews. Yet there are multiple divisions among the Jews, and often quite serious including: Marxist/Globalists vs. Zionists, and secular Jews vs. religious Jews. I know, I know, many of you will say that Zionist Jews are Globalists for White countries but not Israel.

Bear with me on this as I'll start with a story of Freud and Vienna. Freud had a lot of gall stating that the Vienna medical establishment was anti-semitic against him to Brits after he settled there to escape Hitler. The upper tier of Vienna's medical establishment was 85% Jewish, so was Freud lying? He was lying from my perspective, yet Freud concidered all religion, including Jewish religion, to be completely OCD (and OCD was close to psychotic according to Freud) , with no exceptions, so in his worldview religious people's opinions did not count, or ONLY SECULAR JEWS WERE REAL JEWS. His Vienna was the Metrosexual secondary Paris of art/literature salons in the late 1800's, and early 1900's. His haunts included people who could fit in with todays elites, or early progressive socialists, and very secular. Feminist women ran these drawing room meeting between Vienna's intellectuals of the day, as these women set the pattern for the hyper sexualization of women in and around Vienna. Many of Freud's "neurotic" young women that he treated, were girls who could not easily make the transition out of a traditional society into this modern society where women competed using hyper sexuality to gain the attention of important men. (This foreshadows Disney's current toxic subliminal work on children.)

What has this to do with today's Jewish complications? Zionist Jews are often religious, in several different ways, and there is even more disdain today between the secular Jews, who are a more extreme form of progressive/marxist/globalist (or neocon if they claim to be on the right). All I'm saying is thse divisions are real, and they often hate each other, thus 70%+ of USA's Jews voting for Obama, and the whole MSM in the tank for the Uniparty, even when it is not in Israel's best interests.

These divisions in the past have been understood and used by some legit Right Wing parties to give them space to survive. Today, the MSM has been so damaged that it may not even be necessary to exploit these divisions, as the MSM's power was the major hold card for both the secular progressive Jews, and the Zionists. The power is obviously from global trillions, but even more from the media and intelligence services that that their money controls. You people here know this stuff already, except some do not understand the Jewish divisions that have caused a crack in their control even before a devastating failure of the world economy.

So, as the MSM becomes even less effective, and the Globalist Parasite Trillions begin to dry up and have less consequences Jewish power declines. Many people don't care about the victim myths now.

Blogger kennymac January 16, 2017 12:46 PM  

Thanks B, here's one for you. Freedom Munitions, fantastic prices on ammo, although delivery is a little slow.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 16, 2017 12:55 PM  

@Patron

Could you be a little more obtuse about the concept of a nation? Vox spelled EXACTLY the differences between a nation, a state, and a nation-state. Now sit down and shut up, you idiot.

Anonymous Bukulu January 16, 2017 12:55 PM  

Stilicho,

They are perfectly effective for humans. The term "fish antibiotics" doesn't mean "a different type of antiobiotic used for fish but not (currently) for people", it means "sold/marketed for use on fish, not requiring a prescription, and possibly not up to the quality standards required of pharma for human use".

Doxycycline comes to mind as a perfect example. Here's a google search for purchasing, and here's a (sobering) one on effectiveness.

Anonymous Susan January 16, 2017 12:57 PM  

After reading this, my first reaction was, "there is never a whale around when you need it".

As to a job, he is probably going to wind up running his mom Lucianne's fabulously successful website if/when she passes.

Of course, he will probably run it into the ground, but that is the way the matzo crumbles.

Anonymous Shut up rabbit January 16, 2017 1:01 PM  

tuberman wrote:Freud

(((Freud's))) whole body of work was covering up for the incestuous pedophilia of the Vienna elite by gas-lighting their children in believing it was their fault. The #pizzagate enabler of his time.

Blogger praetorian January 16, 2017 1:08 PM  

Too bad the comment thread is turning into another "lets hate the Joos" trainwreck.

I've tried really hard not to notice.

I've tried really, really hard.

Blogger SteelPalm January 16, 2017 1:11 PM  

@50 I usually take Jared Taylor's position and just stay away from the arguments, and not because I am afraid, but I haven't got it completely figured out yet.

To clarify, Jared Taylor's position is more than simply neutral/silent.

He has stated "it gets to the point where people blame the Jews if it rains on their birthday!" in an interview with Gavin McInnes and also includes Ashkenazi Jews among the group of white Europeans.

Anyways, repetitive discussion of Jews aside (think about what it says when even a right-wing extremist Jew with a deep interest in Jewish history like myself gets tired of it), it's amusing to note how badly Goldberg, Lowry, Williamson, French, and the rest of the NRO set are at adjusting to sociopolitical changes.

The US is in such dire straits that it simply cannot afford a "conservative-style" Presidency.

It could only do so in stable times, in a heavily white majority nation, without the various warring tribes and a supremely powerful Marxist Deep State intent on crushing right-wingers beneath its iron boot.

Trump being this "conservative-style" President would be a laughable failure and disaster.

The God Emperor NEEDS to be a powerful nationalist smiting his leftist foes as forcefully and mercilessly as he can.

It's the only chance the US has left.

Augusto Pinochet should be his inspiration.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 16, 2017 1:16 PM  

It amazes me how shamelessly they dispense advice to the guy they tried to beat with everything they had, as if he needs or wants to listen to them. And then they pretend the last year doesn't exist.

Blogger Rusty Fife January 16, 2017 1:22 PM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:t's a good day to say this, I just want my freedom from jews and blacks amongst many of the crazy groups of the left I want my freedom from.

Free my people


"Let my people go, so that they may worship me."

FIFY

Blogger tuberman January 16, 2017 1:23 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 16, 2017 1:36 PM  

They're like a girlfriend who spent all your money on crack until you were bankrupt, cheated on you and gave you syphillis, and told everyone you know that you're bad in bed. Then one day after you break up with her you win the lottery, and she shows up and says she's willing to let bygones be bygones and marry you now -- but first you have to lose weight, get a new job, and replace all your friends with hers.

Blogger praetorian January 16, 2017 1:37 PM  

Bear with me on this as I'll start with a story of Freud and Vienna

Freud shared the widespread jewish hatred for Rome (and it's successor, the church of Rome), though. He envisioned himself as Hannibal.

E. Michael Jones claims that the decisive break in jewery was when Zevi failed as a messiah and converted (possibly insincerely, as with the conversos) to Islam. At that point European jews had to pick between an inner-spiritual interpretation (orthodoxy) or a purely materialist interpretation (leading to our boy Marx) to deal with the catastrophe.

I find EMJ's spiritual theory integrated with Kmac's evo-psychological theory a plausible working explanation.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 16, 2017 1:38 PM  

50. tuberman January 16, 2017 12:45 PM
All I'm saying is thse divisions are real, and they often hate each other, thus 70%+ of USA's Jews voting for Obama, and the whole MSM in the tank for the Uniparty, even when it is not in Israel's best interests.



so?

the HBD Semitic tendencies will out.

Muslims, especially the Arab and Turko-Persian types, hate each other all over the place and murder each other all the time.

but they always manage to join hands to dance on the corpse of the khaffir, regardless of any other religious or racial disagreements that they might have.



57. SteelPalm January 16, 2017 1:11 PM
Anyways, repetitive discussion of Jews aside (think about what it says when even a right-wing extremist Jew with a deep interest in Jewish history like myself gets tired of it)



tell you what, i'll stop talking about the Juice when:
1 - you ( Jews ) stop talking about Hitler
and / or
2 - your people stop pulling this stupid shit

Goldberg is doubling down on stupid. just like Krugman. just like Weiner.

shameless.

Anonymous EH January 16, 2017 1:40 PM  

"Statist president" is redundant. "Nationalist president" borders on miraculous.

Blogger Dave January 16, 2017 1:40 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:It amazes me how shamelessly they dispense advice to the guy they tried to beat with everything they had, as if he needs or wants to listen to them. And then they pretend the last year doesn't exist.

I'd been shocked if it didn't happen. Do you think he tried to move Obama to the center his first term?

Blogger Timmy3 January 16, 2017 1:52 PM  

We are choking on the terminology. Statist means big government. Nationalist has no statist connotation. Conservative can mean Constitutional, but hasn't in practice. Jonah Goldberg should know Trump doesn't fit the mold, but he'll never be a conservative as in globalist, free tradem elitist, and open immigration.

Blogger SteelPalm January 16, 2017 1:56 PM  

I usually avoid Bobby's sperging, but I'll humor him this time;

@63 tell you what, i'll stop talking about the Juice when:
1 - you ( Jews ) stop talking about Hitler
and / or
2 - your people stop pulling this stupid shit


1. I can't recall even a single time myself, Shimson, Rabbi B, or anyone else brought up Hitler here. I've even noted my distaste for the whole "Holocaust/suffering porn" angle with regards to Anne Frank/Eli Wiesel.

A certain portion of the commentators here, by contrast, (many since banned by Vox) absolutely worship Hitler, the Third Reich, prance around in swastika panties, etc.

2. We'll try our best, but what about your own people? Powerful leftists/globalists are still overwhelmingly white.

And while an impotent cuck now, at least Jonah Goldberg was an early inspiration for Vox with his "Liberal Fascism" book (which Vox modeled the cover of "SJWs Always Lie" after). What good have white cucks like Rich Lowry, Kevin Williams, or David French ever done, except for the opposition? Or going further back, William Buckley?

Anywho, it's a shame the comment thread has turned into the same conversation we've had a thousand times already.

I was genuinely interested in what type of strong nationalist ruler right-wingers Trump should pattern himself after. Or to what extent that is even possible given the collusion/power of the Marxist Deep State.

My previously mentioned hope was a Pinochet-like ruler, but that's likely still too extreme for enough people to swallow.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 16, 2017 2:15 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 16, 2017 2:21 PM  

Only if Congress will give approval for Blackhawk crews to give free 1/2-way helicopter rides.

Anonymous RabidRatel January 16, 2017 2:21 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:And then they pretend the last year doesn't exist.

It is always the current year

Blogger Tuatha January 16, 2017 2:22 PM  

"They have declared themselves to be the mortal enemy of Christendom, and everything good and decent. The response requires a fighter, not a lawyer."

I nominate myself for candidate.

Blogger tuberman January 16, 2017 2:24 PM  

#63

"So?"

I think it's important to understand the weaknesses of those trying to do the controlling, and whether those weaknesses can be exploited, and even what damage they have done to their control already.

As in my conclusion...."as the MSM becomes even less effective, and the Globalist Parasite Trillions begin to dry up and have less consequences Jewish power declines. Many people don't care about the victim myths now."

I was also interested in what everyone would say, just for the lutz.

Anonymous Discard January 16, 2017 2:26 PM  

25. dc.sunsets: Aside from David Hines take on civil war not accounting for the Left's dependence on unlimited resources, he also leaves out any racial angle. Any civil war will immediately become a race war.

Blogger LBD January 16, 2017 2:32 PM  

Jonah Goldberg is not Jewish.

Anonymous Galactic Starfleets of Deplorable Spartacus January 16, 2017 2:41 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:Here's a thesis that in a Civil War II, the conflict that now seems inevitable, the Left is far better organized and experienced waging political warfare, and that a return to the political violence of the late '60's/'70's favors Leftists.

Here's handy guide to their plans to #DisruptJ20 disrupt Jan 20 inauguration day-

https://archive.fo/rxfHF

E.g here's a group that agrees with the thesis of this VP post-
Black, Brown, and Indigenous Mobilize Against White Nationalism – New York, NY

Blogger Lazarus January 16, 2017 2:53 PM  

LBD wrote:Jonah Goldberg is not Jewish.

We have been through this before:

Goldberg's brother, Joshua Goldberg, died on February 10, 2011, from injuries he sustained in a fall. Their father, Sidney Goldberg (1931–2005), was Jewish, and their mother, Lucianne Goldberg, is Episcopalian. Goldberg himself was raised Jewish.[27]

He is a columnist for the Jewish World Review

Here is a sample of articles:



Nov. 29, 2004

Binyamin L. Jolkovsky: Radical vegetarian group seeking to slaughter one of the world's largest kosher meat processors

Zev Chafets: Let's be honest, peace is nowhere in sight

Nov. 25, 2004

Rabbi David Fohrman: Serpents of desire: Good and evil in the Garden of Eden --- Beauty and the Beast

Rabbi David Aaron: The Secret to Happiness

Nov. 24, 2004

Rabbi Mitchell Wohlberg: Thanksgiving: Let us not be warped in our perspective

Robert Zelnick: If Arafat had been aborted, there would've been a Palestinian state

Nov. 23, 2004

The Jewish Ethicist: Can I use fake bids to raise prices in an auction?

Lisa J. Huriash: Lots of help available for moms who make their own baby food

Nov. 22, 2004

Jeff Jacoby: When hatred is necessary

Ike Seamans: The Arafat I knew

Paul Wieder: …Oh, CDs I will play: It's the Chanukah wrap-up

Nov. 19, 2004

Rabbi David Fohrman: Serpents of desire: Good and evil in the Garden of Eden — What's in it for the Snake?

Rabbi David Aaron: Real Love means embracing Conflict

Jonathan Tobin: Conventional wisdom rides again

Nov. 18, 2004

Cal Thomas: Toward a moral foreign policy

Larry Elder: Arafat and the 'peace process'

Suzanne Fields: No seeds for Middle East peace


Quack, quack, waddle waddle.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 16, 2017 2:59 PM  

praetorian wrote:Too bad the comment thread is turning into another "lets hate the Joos" trainwreck.

I've tried really hard not to notice.


Have you noticed that when Jews start openly calling for the genocide of Whites, the death of White males, the end of Western civilization, none of their fellow Jews jump in and start telling them they're being unfair, unfashionable or whatever you call this passive-aggressive bullshit.

Blogger Robert Divinity January 16, 2017 3:06 PM  

@19:

The arrogance of those who opposed Trump and were wrong in every prediction and condemnation they made about him and the campaign over the last year, and now want to brush all that aside without apology or explanation and keep right on preaching at us, is striking.

I enjoyed your subsequent analogy to an ex- who shows up after you hit the lottery. It really is astonishing hubris. Goldberg and company have rendered themselves irrelevant to contemporary political discourse and now think they can control what they opposed? It's beyond ridiculous. While I enjoyed Goldberg's past work, it is hard not to reappraise any previous admiration, especially after he gave an interview and partially attributed his Never-Trumptardism to his belief DJT would lose. Such principles this guy and those like him hold/held!

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 16, 2017 3:06 PM  

it's amusing to note how badly Goldberg, Lowry, Williamson, French, and the rest of the NRO set are at adjusting to sociopolitical changes.

They're not just bad at it, they are actively working on denying that any such changes have taken place. I no longer read NRO, but on occasion have clicked on links leading there without realizing the source. That is how I became aware of a 4 part series they are running on the "real" reasons Donald Trump won. Rest assured, it had nothing to do with discontent with the status quo. Simply a matter of historical inevitability. The Democrats had been in power for 8 years, so of course the Republican nominee was going to win, don't you know.

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 16, 2017 3:09 PM  

SteelPalm wrote:

2. We'll try our best, but what about your own people? Powerful leftists/globalists are still overwhelmingly white.


This is a fair point, and well worth noting. Putting aside for a second all the Talmudist criminality and ingrained tribalism to such an extent that even out-and-out traitor to his own like (((Soros))) is rarely even spoken of in bad terms, much less dealt with or even exposed by fellow members of the tribe, the point stands:

There is simply no way they could have done this much damage all on their own.

Like so many things, there was nobody holding a loaded gun to the heads of 'Christian' monarchs over the centuries forcing them to borrow from the (((debt racketeers))) due to their own inability to control their spending, their own refusal to live within their means, etc. Likewise, there was nobody forcing the adoption of heresies like Judeo-Christianity in Protestantism and Catholicism alike until the heretics gained sufficient numbers and power (as now). Bill Gates isn't Jewish, neither is John Corzine, Carlos Slim, Waren Buffet, the Rockefeller, Bush or Clinton families. All are party to the crimes as much as (((Soros))), (((Zuckerberg))) and (((Llord Bankfein))) are. Elites need to be held accountable. Part of the problem now is that they are completely unaccountable. It would do little good to destroy the three names with echoes and leave the others intact.

Blogger tuberman January 16, 2017 3:12 PM  

#57 Steel

About Taylor:
"He has stated "it gets to the point where people blame the Jews if it rains on their birthday!" in an interview with Gavin McInnes and also includes Ashkenazi Jews among the group of white Europeans."

Yes, the conversations do get stagnant, like a record stuck on the same tract. I was a retail salesman during high school, and a tournament chess player later, and reached the lower professional or expert level. Most of the Jews I ran into were in no way Marxists or Globalists or, if leftists, they would not have fit into the elite of today. I do believe Globalist money is behind the control of the MSM, and the Black Hat Intel people (tis obvious, and many are Jewish Global Banksters financing this stuff). Too many commenters here project these ideas as completely Jewish and monolithic. I see the Marxist?Globalist Jewish and Non-Jewish as being a bigger problem than Zionist Jewish. I also see the secular, as in Metrosexxual pushing Jewish (again I would include all the people normalizing Pedo activities). I do know that the glass ceiling in most Federal and Global banks is Jewish at the top, with Gays at the second tier.

Blogger Basil Makedon January 16, 2017 3:18 PM  

I'll always have a soft spot for Jonah Goldberg as he's produced some excellent work in the past. Liberal Fascism is not only excellent and informative, it is also "important."

This current offering is little short of ridiculous. Nationalism and Statism are not inextricably linked. One can have Nationalism without an overfed and omnishambling State. The fact that one can have a gigantic State without Nationalism is beyond dispute.

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 16, 2017 3:19 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:

Have you noticed that when Jews start openly calling for the genocide of Whites, the death of White males, the end of Western civilization, none of their fellow Jews jump in and start telling them they're being unfair, unfashionable or whatever you call this passive-aggressive bullshit.

Yes, there is rarely if ever any mention or criticism of such talk from within the ranks - even here. … and they wonder why there's a trust issue. As noted before, not even (((Soros))), whose family fortune was rooted in looting the assets of fellow Jews handed over to the Nazis, is subject to criticism. When the ridiculous worshipper of the Cheetoze Judeo-Christ Glenn Beck made a documentary on Fox News about the origins of the (((Soros))) fortune, he was fired from Fox News. One would think that (((Soros))) is the supreme Rabbi of World Jewry, give the general response.

Blogger tuberman January 16, 2017 3:44 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 16, 2017 3:50 PM  

Liberal Fascism was a good piece of work, but Jonah Goldberg failed to follow up on it. He isn't as smart as he thinks he is, for a start. Or perhaps he just doesn't want to Notice some things; his old boss Ben Wattenburg was a big fan of HIspanics as being the new Italians, but without bothering to think about what the Italians brought to America - the Mafia for a start, more yellow-dog Democrat voters as well.

Goldberg's also got that Reagan disease - the notion that demographics don't matter, as long as a Great Man can be found there will always be Reagan Democrats. It's really short sighted, and it is a common mental malady among cuckservatives. To some people it's always 1980, and this is frankly retarded. It's like a younger version of someone's 90 year old granny going on about Franklin D. Roosevelt and how great he was and all we need to do is just pull together with another FDR and we can stop the invasion of Oregon by the Empire. Or something equally nonsensical.

@61

NRO = Not Relevant, Obviously.
Or as the Arabs put it, "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on".

Anonymous Patron January 16, 2017 3:58 PM  

@Dirk Manly

"Could you be a little more obtuse about the concept of a nation? Vox spelled EXACTLY the differences between a nation, a state, and a nation-state. Now sit down and shut up, you idiot."

I think you're confused, because I've not actually said anything about what I think the differences between those things are. If you'd read my post properly you would have understood that. I'm just trying wondering whether VD's definitions are the same as Jonah Goldberg's - that's all.

Consider the following questions:

1. Is the USA a country?
2. Is the USA a nation?
3. Is the USA a nation-state?
4. Is the USA a state?

My theory is that Jonah Goldberg - and an awful lot of other people - will treat all four questions as different formulations of the exact same question. This matters, because it might mean that such people are merely intellectually lazy or ignorant, rather than intellectually dishonest (or intellectually cowardly).

Finally, and before you respond, do please do me the trouble of actually comprehending what I've written, as opposed to what you fondly imagine I've written.

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 16, 2017 3:59 PM  

Back to the JQ which thread like this one always inspire, just to underline my point above about their inability to create the catastrophe all by themselves (much as most might want to take all the credit):

You simply can't lay this whole dung-heap on the Jews.

Yes they had a hand in it for sure, but it never could have happened were it not for plenty of Catholics who went along with the program for decades running.

Blogger pyrrhus January 16, 2017 4:00 PM  

@55 Yes, Freud's mentor was a serial pedophile in an extremely degenerate Vienna culture. Freud apparently came up with some of his theories when young women would tell him of having dreamed of having sex with their fathers and other pedophiles. Rather than investigating the likely fact that they HAD had sex with their fathers, which would have implicated people around him, Freud came up with exotic theories to cover the mess up. This has been well known for 40 years, and has resulted in the destruction of Freud's reputation within the profession...

Blogger pyrrhus January 16, 2017 4:06 PM  

@87 Jews have traditionally dominated money lending, the sex and sex slave industries, funding of criminal gangs, and leftist organizations like the Communist Party. In other words, they are very good at exploiting human weakness. But human weakness isn't going away, the more so when culture killers like the sexual revolution are being fed by such a powerful group.

Anonymous Icicle January 16, 2017 4:11 PM  

It's kind of shocking how many pornographers are actually Jewish.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 16, 2017 4:12 PM  

Patron wrote:Finally, and before you respond, do please do me the trouble of actually comprehending what I've written, as opposed to what you fondly imagine I've written.
How about you do us the favor of writing clearly about what you mean? I, and I'm sure many others, read your post the exact same way Dirk did. When someone (unintentionally) misunderstands what I've written, I assume I'm not being clear or explicit enough. You seem to assume it's our fault for not reading your intention through your poor exposition.

Blogger Bob Loblaw January 16, 2017 4:14 PM  

Yeah, Jonah knows better than this. National Review went all in with it's NeverTrump stance, and they're not willing to climb down even if it makes them incoherent.

Anonymous Discard January 16, 2017 4:22 PM  

In my experience, Whites who are disaffected from their own kind are generally pretty isolated, and relatively harmless. But if there are Jews around, the disaffected Whites have a ready-made alienated collective to attach themselves to. The Whites will remain second class within this collective, but at least they're not outcasts, as they are among healthy Whites. Being socially defective, they may not even notice their second class status.
In short, Jews are a catalyst to which White defectives are drawn and then programmed.

Blogger Lovekraft January 16, 2017 4:27 PM  

O/T but the comment thread on this Drudge link is on fire.

Regarding the Women's March on D.C.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/womens-march-dc-echo-past-140655850.html

Blogger praetorian January 16, 2017 4:49 PM  

It's kind of shocking how many pornographers are actually Jewish.

‘The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.’
--Al Goldstein

"Before I got my first part in an adult film, I went down to an audition for an X-rated film with my hair down to my ass, a copy of Wilhelm Reich’s Sexual Revolution under my arm and yelling about work, 'love and sex'."
--Pacheco

http://jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38

More people should know about Wilhelm Reich.

I've got the pathological altruism gene as bad as anyone: I really want to judge folks by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, shape of their hat, etc, but this is ridiculous.

Blogger James Dixon January 16, 2017 5:09 PM  

> The Democrats had been in power for 8 years, so of course the Republican nominee was going to win, don't you know.

So there never was a President George H.W. Bush? We went straight from Reagan to Clinton?

Blogger kurt9 January 16, 2017 5:27 PM  

The real question is: What have conservatives like Jonah Goldberg actually accomplished over the past 30 years?

Blogger dc.sunsets January 16, 2017 5:37 PM  

Any civil war will immediately become a race war. I suppose that's plausible, and less chaotic than what my imagination conjured.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 16, 2017 5:43 PM  

My wife reiterated a central truth this morning:

"Without an Obama Administration there'd be no Trump Administration."

The Left cannot & never will grasp this (and everyone left of Alt-Right is simply Left.)

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 16, 2017 6:13 PM  

you know what we ( almost ) never hear when Vox makes a post on Black dysfunction?

Black members of the Ilk whining about how talking about the Negro Question is so tiresome and boring.

you know what we ( almost ) never hear when Vox makes a post on Female dysfunction?

Women of the Ilk whining about how talking about the Wimminz Question is so tiresome and boring.

Boomers and Jews, MORE solipsistic than Blacks and Women, although less solipsistic than a Scalzi sock puppet.

how you like that hierarchy?

you don't like it? well, guess what?

"No one cares what you want."

Blogger Cicatrizatic January 16, 2017 6:22 PM  

@62. praetorian “I find EMJ's spiritual theory integrated with Kmac's evo-psychological theory a plausible working explanation.”

I agree that a synthesis of the two approaches may be the way forward.

I think that Jones is reticent to indulge in a purely racial analysis of Jewish behavior. Understandable, given his theological framework, but it leaves his theory incomplete.

Likewise, while MacDonald’s evolutionary framework is helpful for understanding Jewish behavior in the diaspora, I think Jones’ anti-Logos thesis is also necessary to explain much of the virulent revolutionary activity. Just bought my copy of Jones' book "Barren Metal" and am looking forward to reading it.

Blogger modsquad January 16, 2017 6:26 PM  

Icicle wrote:Not on the Jew hate bandwagon. I have jewish exes so its ok.

Why are so many Ashkenazim homosexual? The Caucasian rate seems about 2%. Their rate seems about 10-12%.


One dare might say there's a connection between this and the cultural bias for circumcision.

Blogger liberranter January 16, 2017 6:48 PM  

I very much want Trump to be a successful conservative president — which is to say, I don’t want him to be a successful statist president.

Are there any people more statist than (((neoncons))) like Jonah? Either he's being disingenuous here, or he's suffered a head injury that has resulted in mental retardation.

Blogger Doc Rampage January 16, 2017 7:34 PM  

Trump would not have won without the support of conservatives. He obviously listens to a lot of conservatives like Kellyanne Conway, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, and Jeff Sessions. Many of the Republicans he attacks such as Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, John McCain, and Paul Ryan are hated by conservatives. He has appointed a lot of conservatives to positions in his administration. In fact, indications so far are that Trump, despite not being conservative, will do more for conservative causes than either Bush did, and possibly more than Reagan did.

What you see as dying out is just conservatives just changing strategies. The large of bulk of conservatives realized that they could never get a conservative nominated in the Republican party so they allied with the nationalists to elect a compromise candidate (I wasn't smart enough to see the value of this strategy early on, but fortunately the large bulk of conservatives did). From the conservative point of view, Trump will be no more statist than Bush, and if you believe Trump he will be a lot better on two big issues where Bush betrayed conservatives: on closing the southern border and on taking the war against Islam seriously.

Unfortunately, he won't do anything to stop Social Security from going bankrupt during my retirement years. Even more unfortunately, Trump tied with Hillary as the most pro-GLBT candiate in our nations history, so he probably will do nothing to stop the moral decay that is leading to so many abortions, so many broken families, and so much sexual abuse of children and young people, but conservatives could not possibly have nominated a president that would do anything about that, so in that sense, we didn't give up anything by voting for Trump.

Have you seen how happy the conservative anti-Trumpers are getting lately? They are starting to realize all of this and turning into Trump supporters--but still conservatives. The movement is doing just fine.

BTW: Bush was not a conservative. Conservatives fought Bush on the Medicare expansion, on immigration, on his support of Islam, and on the bank bailouts, among other things. In fact, here's what Goldberg wrote about big-government conservativism which he calls compassionate conservativism:

"Here’s my silver-lining hope this hurricane season: George W. Bush’s compassionate conservatism gets wiped out like a taco hut in the path of a Cat. 5 storm. Outside of people inside the administration, I’ve never met anyone who really likes the president’s 'compassionate conservatism.'"

Blogger Lazarus January 16, 2017 7:46 PM  

Icicle wrote:It's kind of shocking how many pornographers are actually Jewish.

(((Woody Allen))) quote from Annie Hall movie:


Don't you see the rest of the country looks upon New York like we're left-wing, communist, Jewish, homosexual pornographers? I think of us that way sometimes and I live here

Anonymous To Mock a Killingbird January 16, 2017 8:03 PM  

@104

Unfortunately, he won't do anything to stop Social Security from going bankrupt during my retirement years.

Social Security is already bankrupt. The government sold it as "insurance", "bought and paid for", but it never was anything remotely like insurance.

The question is will it become insolvent and make the bankruptcy obvious to the general public or will the government paper over the insolvency with currency debasement or deceptive financial shenanigans.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 16, 2017 8:19 PM  

104. Doc Rampage

What you see as dying out is just conservatives just changing strategies. The large of bulk of conservatives realized that they could never get a conservative nominated in the Republican party so they allied with the nationalists to elect a compromise candidate

Which conservatives?

Old Right, New Right, GOPe, libertarians, Religious Right, Neocons, Paleocons, Compassionate Conservative?

As a conservative (or former conservative?) I can say that there isn't much left of the conservative movement. It has failed to conserve anything and the GOP as a conservative vehicle is a joke.

What exactly is left to conserve in any case? A debt we can never repay? Men allowed into the women's bathroom? Bakers and photographers forced to work for the designated victim class? Marriage? Welfare and state mandated cash and prizes for divorce? State funded abortion on demand? Socialism in the schools and higher education?

The left has been constantly advancing on every front for decade after decade. It isn't working, and arguing that conservatism was betrayed by Bush and the Neocons sounds entirely too much like Marxists arguing that the revolution was betrayed and 'true' Marxism has never been tried.

I don't like it, but it's time for something different because the world has moved on. You can't go back to the melting pot model. It failed. You can't save marriage in the face of the women's vote. You can't do anything to the out of control spending because of the minority and the female vote.

Conservatism like liberalism has failed.

I don't know what the future holds, but it won't be either of those two ideologies.

Blogger Robert Divinity January 16, 2017 8:27 PM  

@104:

As long as W provided perpetual war, Goldberg overlooked everything else Bush did despite the quote you excerpted. If Trump had promised to fight a proxy war against Russia, Goldberg would have been fully on board with the GOP nominee. National Review and Goldberg are dead letters. Drudge also has a link to an unintentionally hilarious WaPo piece about NeverTrumpers upset that they won't get military/security complex positions. The cancer will be excised.

Anonymous BBigGayKoranBurner January 16, 2017 8:45 PM  

prance around in swastika panties The only time I did that was when I dated an actual bootlicking jew.

Bill Gates isn't Jewish, neither is John Corzine, Carlos Slim, Waren Buffet

Warren Buffet begged jews to be let into the circle to then earn money by buying government property from corrupt/incompetent govt workers for pennies on the dollar. Corzine married a jew.

Blogger Quicksilver75 January 16, 2017 10:43 PM  

Goldberg is an SJW-lite. He is an Entryist for sure. He played Br'er rabbit & rope a dope when he knew NR readers were not in support of him, and then would try to polish his bona fides by attacking easy targets w/ his Dems R the Real Racist schtick. His attacks on Buchanan, Brimelow & Coulter were huge tells in the period 1997-2003. The big giveaway with his ilk (Ben S included) is that when it came down to actually backing a candidate with real conviction for attacking political correctness & cultMarx (the first in a generation with a real winning chance), they winced and looked for an easy out to align with GOPe. In short, he is a placeholder who doesn't really want to win the culture war. He just wants to posture.

Blogger Buybuydandavis January 16, 2017 10:50 PM  

VD: "The intrinsic dishonesty of some civic nationalists runs so deep that they do not even appear to recognize it when they make massive blunders like confusing statism with nationalism."

I think you missed the boat on his complaint about Trump's nationalism as statism.

It wasn't the main point of the article, but I think his criticism of Trump's nationalism as statism comes from his supposed "free market" positions.

Trump's trade policy is aimed at benefiting America First, and the mass of Americans first, over American corporate interests.

Neocons translate that as being against the free market, and hence statism. "Picking winners and losers".

It's true that picking America First is picking winners and loser. Just as it's true that picking the vast majority of Americans over corporate interests is picking winners and losers.

Standing for "free markets" globally, Goldberg is rejecting the US government favoring US citizens over foreigners. Standing for corporate minority interests over majority worker interests, he rejects Trump's populism.

When Goldberg picks corporate interests over the majority, it's the "free market". When Trump picks the workers over corporate interests, it's statism.

Part of what Goldberg is rejecting is exactly the civic nationalism of Trump - putting American interests over foreign interests.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 16, 2017 11:15 PM  

Unfortunately, he won't do anything to stop Social Security from going bankrupt during my retirement years. Even more unfortunately, Trump tied with Hillary as the most pro-GLBT candiate in our nations history,

Blah blah mah conservatism blah.

With friends like you and Goldberg, Trump doesn't need enemies. You can't even compliment him without including cheap shots about things you know he's not going to do, four days before he takes office. Goldberg can't compliment him without lecturing him.

If NeverTrump cuckservatives admitted they were wrong -- wrong in their predictions throughout the campaign, and wrong to attempt to help Hillary win -- and correct their grip on reality, that'd be one thing. I'm not seeing much of that. I just see more of the same hubris and the same BS. The only difference is that, before the election, they ranted that Trump was a liberal shill -- at least as liberal as Hillary, in fact -- and now they assure us he could be sort of conservative -- as long as he's their kind of conservative.

It's not fooling anyone.

Anonymous Eric the Red January 16, 2017 11:48 PM  

Like all leftists and their useful idiots, Goldberg refuses intellectually to make a useful distinction that, if acknowledged, will undercut his argument and call into question his entire world view. Definitely can't go there, so then also strike a pose that everybody else is wrong on the distinction. Yeah, this is what passes for rational discourse on the left.

Blogger Doc Rampage January 16, 2017 11:58 PM  

Sharrukin wrote:Old Right, New Right, GOPe, libertarians, Religious Right, Neocons, Paleocons, Compassionate Conservative?

As a conservative (or former conservative?) I can say that there isn't much left of the conservative movement. It has failed to conserve anything and the GOP as a conservative vehicle is a joke.

"Conservatives never conserved anything" is a silly taunt to throw at a movement that saved the world from Communist totalitarianism. When all those nationalist union members were voting for Communist union bosses who were actively trying to destroy the world, it was conservatives who got first Richard Nixon, then Ronald Reagan elected. Those two presidents saved the world (Nixon was not a conservative; like Trump he was a compromise candidate that the conservatives supported).

Other than the free world, conservatives never wanted to conserve things. If you thought it did, then you were not a conservative. Conservatives have been revolutionaries since the 1960s, wanting to radically change the country, not wanting to conserve things.

Also, GOP-E, libertarians, neoconservatives and compassionate conservatives were never conservatives and were never considered conservatives, which you would know if you were really a conservative and read what they wrote. This isn't something made up after the fact. Movement conservatives have despised the GOP leadership ever since Reagan left office, have always viewed libertarians and neoconservatives as uncomfortable and unreliable allies, and have always despised the compassionate conservatives (who are indistinguishable from the GOP-E).

As to taunting conservatives for being a failure, that's pretty rich coming from a nationalist. Conservatives have at least a few victories to point to over the last 50 years; nationalists have only defeats.

Blogger Doc Rampage January 17, 2017 12:11 AM  

Cail Corishev wrote:If NeverTrump cuckservatives admitted they were wrong -- wrong in their predictions throughout the campaign, and wrong to attempt to help Hillary win -- and correct their grip on reality, that'd be one thing.

I wasn't talking about the Never-Trump conservatives who continued to attack Trump after he clinched the nomination. Anyone who actively tried to help Hillary win has to do a lot more than just admit they were wrong for me to get past it.

However, some of the never-Trumpers were driven to that level of insanity by the extraordinarily obnoxious Trump supporters during the primaries. Sure, it's insane to hold a grudge so strong that you are willing to see the country burn over it, but the people who inspired that grudge were just as bad. They had no way to know that Trump could win without the support of those people, so by so thoroughly alienating those people, they were themselves risking a Hillary win.

Anonymous Eric the Red January 17, 2017 12:16 AM  

Like all useful idiots for the left, Goldberg refuses intellectually to make a distinction, that if acknowledged, will undercut his argument and call into question his entire world view. Definitely can't go there, so he must also assert that everyone else is wrong when they make the distinction. Yeah, this is what passes for rational discourse on the left.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 17, 2017 12:19 AM  

113. Doc Rampage

"Conservatives never conserved anything" is a silly taunt to throw at a movement that saved the world from Communist totalitarianism.

The former Warsaw Pact nations are doing more to preserve and defend their own nations than NATO members are so I have my doubts about what exactly was saved. The western European nations are crumbling before Islamic migration and refuse to defend themselves.

Maybe Soviet occupation was a better deal for the long term survival of those nations and people?

Not a fun thought given the repulsive nature of the Soviet system.

Also, GOP-E, libertarians, neoconservatives and compassionate conservatives were never conservatives and were never considered conservatives, which you would know if you were really a conservative and read what they wrote. This isn't something made up after the fact. Movement conservatives have despised the GOP leadership ever since Reagan left office, have always viewed libertarians and neoconservatives as uncomfortable and unreliable allies, and have always despised the compassionate conservatives (who are indistinguishable from the GOP-E).

As I said, the revolution was betrayed by Neocons and their allies, or it was not capable of rolling back the leftist advance. Regardless of the post massacre analysis, it's still a defeat.

The war is over and the good guys lost.

As to taunting conservatives for being a failure

Not taunting, just pointing out reality.

I don't like it, but that doesn't change how things are.

Conservatives have at least a few victories to point to over the last 50 years

And the Native Indians won at The Battle of the Little Bighorn.

It's NOT working.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 17, 2017 12:33 AM  

However, some of the never-Trumpers were driven to that level of insanity by the extraordinarily obnoxious Trump supporters during the primaries.

Yeah, I heard that allllll through the campaign too: It's all the fault of those obnoxious Trumpkins! It's only gotten more ridiculous now. Every group of human beings has some loud, obnoxious members. Using them as an excuse to oppose Trump was either dishonest or dumb.

The bottom line is that the losers -- who spent months telling us every day what fools we were, how we were betraying conservatism by backing a candidate who couldn't beat Hillary, how we didn't care about Christian values and murdered babies, how we'd regret it when Trump lost which was a certainty -- now want to keep lecturing us, only with a fresh reframe. They're the Cleveland Browns telling the Super Bowl winners how they should have played and how they're allowed to celebrate.

We're not having any.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 17, 2017 1:00 AM  

However, some of the never-Trumpers were driven to that level of insanity by the extraordinarily obnoxious Trump supporters during the primaries. Sure, it's insane to hold a grudge so strong that you are willing to see the country burn over it, but the people who inspired that grudge were just as bad.

So, it's my fault that NeverTrumpers are treacherous shitheads that would rather sell their souls to Hillary and destroy the country than compromise with the American people.

Good to know.

Anonymous Eric the Red January 17, 2017 1:15 AM  

'However, some of the never-Trumpers were driven to that level of insanity by the extraordinarily obnoxious Trump supporters during the primaries. Sure, it's insane to hold a grudge so strong that you are willing to see the country burn over it, but the people who inspired that grudge were just as bad.'

Mommie, he made me do it !

Those who don't take responsibilty for their own feelings are either insane, children, or animals. Which one are you?

Blogger ViciousCreep January 17, 2017 1:16 AM  

Truth be told, as I've realized the extent to which anonymity have been compromised, I've changed my behavior. It's not that I've been more *circumspect*, but I give more more careful consideration of the prospect of having to stand behind what I have written.

I don't believe in doxxing as a method of intimidating private individals. When we're talking about the vicious creeps behind Google and Facebook and telecommunications companies, I frankly think their data Gathering activities should should be mandated by law to be available to the public. We have a right to know the degree of intrusion and explicitly spelling out their use of that data.

on a cultural level, CEO's should expect their location and activities to be public knowledge at all time. That is only fair for plutocrates who monitor billions of people 24 hours a day. It's small price... Perhaps eventually they can be made to pay it.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 17, 2017 1:20 AM  

I may be old, but I remember the olden times of... Last summer, with the insufferbly smug and snarky TruConservatives™ showing up every single day, inaulting us, insulting our candidate, calling us dishonest stupid traitors. That was our fault too. We made them do it with our meme magic and focus on winning, despite even being called names.

Anonymous An Extremely Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than A Basket Of Twenty Deplorable Cents January 17, 2017 1:29 AM  

Doc Rampage:

The whole No True Conservative game has gotten pretty old.

The Cold War ended about 25 years ago. Conservatism has gotten pretty good at surrendering to the SJW's. Even the TruConservatives.

So maybe you should be picking some other position to defend than NRO's conservative credentials? It's just cucky.

Anonymous JAMES January 17, 2017 2:09 AM  

So the National Review is still going huh?

TBH I was hoping that they had all died of shame.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 17, 2017 2:15 AM  

111. Buybuydandavis January 16, 2017 10:50 PM
Trump's trade policy is aimed at benefiting America First, and the mass of Americans first, over American corporate interests.



you are SO dangerously close to the Truth here, but not quite looking clearly at it.

it's not "American corporate interests" which Goldberg favors. it's not even the 3rd world countries to whom the manufacturing is being offshored.

it's the peculiarly well positioned ((( trading and merchant ))) interests scattered all over the globe who, although nominally of a multiplicity of nationalities, nevertheless somehow manage to share Language, Religion and Race.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hotung

Sassoon's largely responsible for China's opium crisis in the 19th century
http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2001/0510/cu18-2.html

gosh, i WONDER, do you think they might gain trading advantages over silly gaijin who don't know Mandarin? or the Cantonese who don't know Engrish?

what possible reason could ((( Goldberg ))) have for flagrantly lying about international free trade being a principal that the Founding Fathers held near and dear to their hearts?

it tis a conundrum.


113. Doc Rampage January 16, 2017 11:58 PM
Conservatives have been revolutionaries since the 1960s,



not even close.

Radical Republicans abolished slavery.

Progressive Republicans got women the vote and gave us the Constitutional abortion of Prohibition.

the Republican party was FOUNDED as a radical and Progressive party, explicitly because they had no intention of following the already established Whig principle of "respecting the Law" in order to ban slavery.

not when they could murder a half million of their brothers instead.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 17, 2017 3:01 AM  

TBH I was hoping that (NRO) had all died of shame.

Sadly, that can never happen. The utterly shameless just lie to themselves.
Again

Blogger Laramie Hirsch January 17, 2017 3:58 AM  

Forgive me if someone has already mentioned this, but this Jew, Jonah Goldberg, from the tribe of men who claim superiority over the rest of the goyim earth, is going to shun us for tribalism?

Preposterous.

Anonymous Eric the Red January 17, 2017 7:09 AM  

In the same article, Goldberg makes the logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum when he refers to Trump's supposedly low approval ratings. It's amazing that Goldberg makes good money peddling such crap.

Blogger Dirk Manly January 17, 2017 9:54 AM  

My cousin moved to New York and it turned him into a left wing pornographer. He's the guy who financed the porn actress with the slogan "bombs not boobs"in the California governor's recall election that put Shwartznegger in office.

Blogger Doc Rampage January 17, 2017 2:08 PM  

bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) wrote:113. Doc Rampage January 16, 2017 11:58 PM

Conservatives have been revolutionaries since the 1960s,


not even close.

Radical Republicans abolished slavery.

Progressive Republicans got women the vote and gave us the Constitutional abortion of Prohibition.


I said "conservative" not "Republican", and I since "since the 1960s". Nothing of what you said is responsive to what I said.

Blogger Doc Rampage January 17, 2017 2:32 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:So, it's my fault that NeverTrumpers are treacherous shitheads that would rather sell their souls to Hillary and destroy the country than compromise with the American people.

No, but it is your fault if you were a treacherous shithead that couldn't restrain himself from attacking and alienating potential allies. Just because they were wrong doesn't mean that you weren't wrong also.

Eric the Red wrote:Those who don't take responsibilty for their own feelings are either insane, children, or animals. Which one are you?

I supported Trump after it was clear that he was going to win the nomination. Are you going to take responsibility for actions that you took that alienated potential allies? Just because they were wrong doesn't mean that you weren't wrong also.

An Extremely Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than A Basket Of Twenty Deplorable Cents wrote:The whole No True Conservative game has gotten pretty old.

Yes it has gotten pretty old. Conservatives spent half a century fighting against the progressives, capitalist cronyists, neoconservatives, and libertarians in the Republican party, trying to minimize the damage that they were doing, only to now see themselves blamed for the policies that they opposed. Somehow, all of those anti-conservative policies have magically transformed into conservative policies. It's Orwellian.

And its comical, coming from a group that claims absolute privilege to slice and dice the political landscape at will to separate out anyone they find embarrassing. Oh, a bunch of alt-right weenies made Nazi salutes? Well abracadabra, they weren't alt-right, they were alt-white! I could play the game of blaming the alt-right for every unpopular thing ever done by a Nazi, racist, or fascist, but I don't blame people for things that completely different people did.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents January 17, 2017 4:56 PM  

Yes it has gotten pretty old. Conservatives spent half a century fighting against the progressives, capitalist cronyists, neoconservatives, and libertarians in the Republican party, trying to minimize the damage that they were doing, only to now see themselves blamed for the policies that they opposed

When was this, again? Was it during the GW Bush years? No, neocons and crony capitalists and progtards were welcomed. Was it during the Clinton years? The GW Bush years?

Dude, you've got to put down that pipe. Whatever is in it is making you hallucinate.

The Cold War was done over 25 years ago. Conservatives have been competing to see who can surrender in the cultural conflict for at least that long, if not longer.

Did conservatives "conserve" marriage? Did the "conserve" even the women's bathroom? Did they "conserve" jobs for working class ordinary men? How about the very lives of Americans, did they "conserve" many of those?

"Conservatism" hasn't even conserved itself. As your pathetic game of "No True Conservative" illustrates clearly.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 17, 2017 5:58 PM  

Well, I don't see any direct lies in Doc's rampage, but one hell of a lot of doubling down and projecting.

It was your side, shithead, that started attacking Trump's supporters. Up to about March it was all criticism of the candidates. Then, when you clowns realized Trump had a chance, your fellows, if not yourself, (I don't recall if you personally were involved)started attacking Trumps supporters. Remember?
We were Communist Fascist homosexual Nazi Liberal bloodthirsty weenie stupid anime mastubators.

We returned fire.

Anonymous Instasetting January 17, 2017 6:24 PM  

Goldberg's chief problem ishe is Libertarian. They are the NTs and those who think Nationalism is not Conservative.

Course that includes a lot here.

Blogger James Dixon January 17, 2017 7:03 PM  

> "Conservatives never conserved anything" is a silly taunt to throw at a movement that saved the world from Communist totalitarianism.

That was Reagan's doing. The "Conservatives" of the time hated him. He dragged them kicking and screaming the entire way. Yeah, the base loved him, but those aren't the conservatives we're talking about.

Blogger Nathan Braun January 18, 2017 12:12 AM  

If there is no difference between a statist and a nationlist, then we should proudly be calling for a statist

Blogger DonReynolds January 18, 2017 12:46 AM  

Jonah Goldberg missed the entire 2015-16 campaign.
Donald Trump was NEVER the "conservative" candidate. Those were the 23 other Republican candidates, including the NeverTrumpers, the CruzBots, Billy Kristol and the National Review clowns, and the Religious Right Wing. Those are the so-called "conservatives".....you remember Jonah.....the Mitt Romney, Miss Lindsey Graham, John Ka-sick, Rick Wilson, Marco Rubio, and Jebby minions. Hey, how about "conservative" Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell? They hate Trump and they hate us too.....first for handing him the party nomination and then the keys to the White House.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) January 18, 2017 2:05 AM  

129. Doc Rampage January 17, 2017 2:08 PM
I said "conservative" not "Republican", and I since "since the 1960s". Nothing of what you said is responsive to what I said.



oh? you want to play it that way?

well then, it's impossible for a Conservative to be a Revolutionary.

the Revolutionary attempts to bring about the new order by destroying the old, the Conservative clings to the old order and despises the new.

to call a Conservative a Revolutionary means that you are either mistaking Progressive Radical Republicans for Conservatives or you don't understand that the post 1960s 'Silent Majority' Republicans weren't Revolutionary in any way.

your choice, either way it's wrong.

Anonymous instasetting January 18, 2017 11:49 AM  

Bob, the post 60's Silent Majority types were for 1. Winning the Cold War 2. Destroying multiple gov't cabinet departments. 3. Private instead of Public schooling. 4. Closing the border to illegals. 5. Believed the gov't was out to get them.

Which view is not Revolutionary? Which view is not Conservative?

Blogger M.F. Malone January 18, 2017 4:01 PM  

bob kek,
Now, wait!
I can't let what you said slip by w/o comment:
“...Yeb! Bush. a moderate incompetent...”- bob

¿Jeb? Bush is *not* a “moderate incompetent”! What a terrible falsehood to spread!

He's an “accomplished/expert incompetent”... in fact, almost a prodigy! ;~)❱

I'm glad we've got *that* straightened out. ;~)❱


Blogger M.F. Malone January 18, 2017 6:02 PM  

Well, to be accurate, Don, Ryan & McConnell hated us well *before* Mr.Trump announced.

As did the bulk of “dyed-in-the-wool” Repubs.

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