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Sunday, January 29, 2017

Pagan rhetoric is not Christianity


The actual Christian position on refugees and immigrants:

It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs.
- Matthew 15:26

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
- 1 Timothy 5:8

But what about that verse from Exodus?

Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
- Exodus 22:21

When were Americans ever foreigners in Egypt? That is not Christian compassion, that has nothing to do with Christianity at all. Anyone who is appealing to Christianity in arguing for settling refugees and foreigners in the USA is a confirmed liar.

Got that, Churchian cuck? You have denied the faith and are worse than an unbeliever. If you genuinely want to go help the foreigners, go to foreign lands and do so. Take your neo-Babelist melting pot paganism with you and go.

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281 Comments:

1 – 200 of 281 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 1:03 PM  

Ah, AIDS Skrillex cut his hair. Or is that Pajama Boy?

Anonymous JI January 29, 2017 1:06 PM  

Timely. Literally one minute ago I'd visited the website of one of my favorite musicians and the website only had quotes like "Knock and ye shall enter" and diatribes against President Trump.

Anonymous Colt January 29, 2017 1:06 PM  

"Got that, Churchian cuck? You have denied the faith and are worse than an unbeliever"

You are very bad at Biblical hermeneutics. Plus, you have no authority for even attempting it. Try Dr. Seuss interpretation first. Start with Hop On Pop. It's your speed.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky January 29, 2017 1:06 PM  

Just caught Chuck Schumer's presser. Chuckie was crying, moved to weeping, standing there among the Muslims. What theater. He and Hillary have taken to telling us what it means to be American today. Apparently it means welcoming foreign invaders from lands swimming in Islamic radicalism.

Anonymous jesuit watcher January 29, 2017 1:08 PM  

VD .. you do not speak for Christ, Christians or its Church .. You clear do not know what the passages you have used really mean...

Blogger Hugo Smith January 29, 2017 1:10 PM  

The Exodus passage can certainly be applied to a Christian state. The problem is that some people think "mistreatment" is even recognizing that foreigners are foreigners.

I think European people have been ridiculously just an charitable to all foreigners throughout our entire history, even to our detriment.

Blogger Some Dude January 29, 2017 1:10 PM  

That sounds like something a jew would say.

"So gentile, the bible says you must bend over and turn the other cheek when we promote magic negro to your daughters and send your sons to fight for our lebensraum in the middle east".

Their treachery echoes through the ages. Not just in Eygpt when they were expelled for sedition.

Anonymous Viidad January 29, 2017 1:11 PM  

Damn straight. Preach it.

Blogger haus frau January 29, 2017 1:13 PM  

Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
- Exodus 22:21

A commandment to not mistreat or oppress foreigners does not translate into a commandment to admit them in the first place, let alone support them at the expense of the native population. Nor does this verse support allowing foreigners with incompatible beliefs and cultural practices to freely practice those beliefs at the expense of the natives. Jailing people for hate speech againt their prophet is not Christian.

Blogger BassmanCO January 29, 2017 1:14 PM  

Colt and jesuit watcher,

So you are saying good Christians should bend over and take itlike a man? Is that What Jesus Would Do?

Anonymous Netty January 29, 2017 1:15 PM  

If it were not for Jews, most Americans would have no idea how to honor their own families and act morally. If you want to understand how to be a good father, son, mother, daughter, aunt, uncle, mother, then observe the average Jew.

Blogger haus frau January 29, 2017 1:15 PM  

@7 Jesuits have a long history of agitating for communism, as anti-christian a philosophy as any. If Vox can't speak for " Christ, Christians or its Church .. " then you have even less standing to do so.

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 1:15 PM  

Theologically speaking, I am not at all sure one should quote 15:26 without also mentioning 15:28.

Anonymous Colt January 29, 2017 1:16 PM  

"So you are saying good Christians should bend over and take itlike a man? Is that What Jesus Would Do?"

If I meant that, I would have said it. I didn't say that.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 29, 2017 1:16 PM  

Go fuck yourself, Netty.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 January 29, 2017 1:17 PM  

Gentile Christians anyway. The descendants of Abraham would seem bound by it.

My understanding of Foreigner means immigrant with intent to permanently resettle. Refugees are in theory supposed to return home.

Also, I never understood the inviting in blasphemers and heretics part. If we follow Jesus's example we are commanded to do outreach to these people, WHERE WE FIND THEM and if we can't convince them we are to leave them alone.

Anonymous Netty January 29, 2017 1:18 PM  

"Go fuck yourself, Netty."

Why, when I can FUCK YOU!!

Anonymous Credo in Unum Deum January 29, 2017 1:19 PM  

Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
- Exodus 22:21


Keeping people out is not "mistreating" or "oppressing" them.

We are doing Literally nothing to them. They are not our responsibility when we have our home problems to fix.

If a group of Canadians come to America, and find themselves being put into chains, and then forced into slavery, under harsh conditions, with President Trump saying, "So let it be written, so let it be done." then that verse can be applied.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 1:20 PM  

In addition, for those who say the Law of Moses sets us a precedent for receiving foreigners as equals, they're dead wrong. Deuteronomy 23 is relevant:

“You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, because you were a sojourner in his land. Children born to them in the third generation may enter the assembly of the Lord."

The "assembly" here is not the people of Israel at large, but the governing body of the nation. Descendants of Edomite and Egyptian fathers who married Jewish women could be involved in Israelite politics, but not until the third generation. Descendants of Moabite and Ammonite fathers who married Israelite women could not be involved in government until the tenth generation (same chapter).

And Canaanites were NEVER absorbed. Even the Gibeonites, 400 years after the treaty with Joshua, were still second class citizens when Saul tried to wipe them out. They had no legal recourse to prevent their own genocide under Israelite law and had to appeal directly to God.

In other words, this idea that people could come from other nations and become Israelite citizens on equal terms to the blood descendants of Jacob is hogwash.

Foreigners could come and "sojourn" for a while in bad times, but they never became Israelites and they had no say in what the nation did.

There is no support for civic nationalism to be found in the Bible. It's only general ignorance among Christians of what the Bible actually says that keeps so many evangelicals cucking.

OpenID b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 January 29, 2017 1:23 PM  

"Go fuck yourself, Netty."

I tend to think he is right about that. If Christians were as good at promoting their own family as Jews, there is zero chance the Supreme Court would have 3 Jews on it, or that a Jew would have chaired the Fed the last 30 odd years, over representation in Ivy league, Wall Street, Hollywood, Publishing, etc.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 1:23 PM  

VD .. you do not speak for Christ, Christians or its Church .. You clear do not know what the passages you have used really mean...

No, you're the ignorant one, and you haven't cited a single specific. Since you're so smart, prove him wrong with actual scholarship.

Anonymous DissidentRight January 29, 2017 1:25 PM  

Jesus didn’t die to enlighten our immigration policy, and He certainly didn’t die so that atheists could lecture us about it.

Inviting invasion is neither compassionate nor Christian.

BTW the line about “In Christ there is neither male not female; therefore transgendered marriage” is weapons grade. Thank you. I already dropped that bomb once today.

Anonymous UF January 29, 2017 1:26 PM  

[b]Theologically speaking, I am not at all sure one should quote 15:26 without also mentioning 15:28.[/b]

True, but 15:28 was not spontaneous. It was in response to 15:27 "Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table."

With 92 million unemployed Americans, we have no crumbs to offer to foreigners.

Blogger Hen January 29, 2017 1:29 PM  

If one reads the OT as a guide to God's mind (in addition to history), then you cannot help but be impressed at how opposed He was to the mixing of His Israel Adamic people with the people who were living in the land He intended for Israel. The concern was that His people would intermarry and end up worshiping idols, that their love for the foreign culture would lead them to corrupt their own.

I rest my case.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky January 29, 2017 1:29 PM  

Remember the whole narrative. God abandoned the Jews and cast them into the Babylonian Captivity. Why? The men of Israel, influenced by the gentile women among them, began taking to the high places in order to worship Astarte and the like - despite explicit warnings from God not to do exactly that. AND, the kings Solomon and David failed to eradicate those high places and refocus on the Jerusalem Temple.

What do you know, foreigners are foreign? They will adulterate your nation if you do not beware. You don't need to bicker over the exegesis of this or that verse. This is a *MAJOR THEME* of the bible.

Blogger Avalanche January 29, 2017 1:33 PM  

@11 "If you want to understand how to be a good father, son, mother, daughter, aunt, uncle, mother, then observe the average Jew."

Like Bernie Madow,you mean? Or is he super-average? Cause he even scammed lots of jews!! (But not, apparently his wife and sons.... who were in it with him...

Blogger Rambam January 29, 2017 1:33 PM  

No pre-Super Bowl discussion open thread?

Blogger Avalanche January 29, 2017 1:34 PM  

Madow? Madhof? whatever

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 29, 2017 1:34 PM  

Netty,

Usually, my detractors threaten not to have sex with me.

Anonymous BBGKB January 29, 2017 1:36 PM  

If you want to understand how to be a good father, son, mother, daughter, aunt, uncle, mother, then observe the average Jew.

I don't think I have ever meet one of these average jews, he must be with a good moslem rent boy.

the bible says you must bend over and turn the other cheek when

Only at MCC churches.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 1:36 PM  

The Exodus passage can certainly be applied to a Christian state.

No, it can't. Christians were never slaves or foreigners in Egypt. Americans certainly weren't. It does not apply to anyone but Jews.

Let Israel take them.

Theologically speaking, I am not at all sure one should quote 15:26 without also mentioning 15:28.

You not only should, you must. 15:26 is the law. 15:28 is the exception, granted to her, and her alone, on the basis of her great faith.

Blogger plishman January 29, 2017 1:37 PM  

CCC 2265: Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 1:37 PM  

No pre-Super Bowl discussion open thread?

Since it is one week away, no.

Blogger Rabbi B January 29, 2017 1:38 PM  

netty, jesuit watcher, and colt ... a veritable and formidable trinity of idiots.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 1:39 PM  

No pre-Super Bowl discussion open thread?

Super Bowl
Sunday, February 5, 6:30 PM
NRG Stadium, Houston, Texas

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 1:39 PM  

VD .. you do not speak for Christ, Christians or its Church .. You clear do not know what the passages you have used really mean...

I speak for myself and I speak the truth. You don't even know how to use an adverb, so I think we can safely dismiss your exegetical capabilities.

Blogger Tom January 29, 2017 1:40 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Cecil Henry January 29, 2017 1:41 PM  

This mindset is very telling.

This liberal is saying that failing to give money is the same as a willful act of harm.

In other words all the West and any individual anywhere is available as prey to whoever has a need: your money, your resources, your future, your land, your heritage.

Got a problem: failure of anyone else you can target to pay is the same as willing the problem. What a parasitic con job.

Any other demand before your own integrity and choice.

(Your choices may be your own, but the consequences are paid by everyone)

Underneath the rhetoric, this is very evil, very manipulative.

Very satanic.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 29, 2017 1:41 PM  

Keeping people out is not "mistreating" or "oppressing" them.

Dialetically speaking, you could even make the case that turning foreigners into indentured servants to increase corporate profits and support our consumerist lifestyle is "mistreating or oppressing" them.

That may not be very good rhetoric, though.

Anonymous NateM January 29, 2017 1:41 PM  

I'm already seeing on social media the leftos quoting tweets from people saying "oh I voted for trump, now X effects me, I regret voting for him" (and lets face I wouldn't be surprised if that was all bullshit anyways). So do the left respond with the compassion they expect from others? No. They respond with autistic screeching calling that person a bigoted shit heel. Then they wonder why we just laugh in their stupid faces.

Blogger The Kurgan January 29, 2017 1:44 PM  

Piss off Churchian. No one cares what you think. I hate Churchians SO much more than the Saracen invaders. You need to all be impaled.

Blogger The Kurgan January 29, 2017 1:46 PM  

Your stench of hypocrisy is nauseating. If I ever catch someone like you near me I shall instruct them personally in the mercy of Jesus for people like you. A whip will be involved.
You will be surprised and will not like it, yet it will be thoroughly Biblical.

Blogger Wanderer January 29, 2017 1:48 PM  

God invented nationalism. The story of the Tower of Babel is in the first few pages of the Bible. This isn't some obscure story in the back pages of Hosea or something. Multiculturalism (one world government/money/religion/etc) is of the anti-christ.

Blogger Jew613 January 29, 2017 1:51 PM  

The passage in Exodus refers to converts to Judaism who have formally joined our people. It is a warning not to discriminate on a day to day basis against those who weren't born Jewish but went through the process of conversion. It has no relevance to immigrants of any other people or religion and certainly doesn't apply to gentile nations.

Anonymous NateM January 29, 2017 1:54 PM  

@44 i'm sure you and you're wife's son are just Outraged

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 29, 2017 1:56 PM  

Henry Keller is as blind and dumb as his namesake, but she probably had more common sense.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 1:56 PM  

You are embarrassing Christianity.

You are embarrassing yourself. Perhaps you'd like to take your own medicine and avoid speaking for fellow Christians. I for one would be grateful.

Anonymous NateM January 29, 2017 1:57 PM  

@3 Colt, if you don't get that people who have usually dismissed the bible's word and are now using a Literally interpretation of a line or lines to guilt christians are up way past their bed time, I don't think there is any hope for you.

Anonymous Clueless Cuckservative January 29, 2017 1:57 PM  

But...but...but....muh Judeo-Christ ! Muh Emma Lazarus!

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 29, 2017 1:58 PM  

Henry Keller (Idiot),

I happen to know that Nate M has seen more than his share of the real world. You are an idiot indeed.

Anonymous NateM January 29, 2017 1:59 PM  

@50 Edgy Nihilist Reality Bubble. Cute little tag line. Which liberal provider of talking points did you take that from?

Also at risk of sounding like a Scalzi, Edgy Nihilist Reality Bubble is the name of my next band

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair January 29, 2017 1:59 PM  

Anyone else wanna punch the drawing in the face?

@35. Ever heard a homily on that one? Yeah me neither

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 29, 2017 2:00 PM  

CHURCHIAN: Yea hath not Judeo-Christ said thou shalt admit murderers, rapists and thieves without number, in his mercy?
MAN OF THE WEST: DIE TRAITOR!

Blogger Rambam January 29, 2017 2:00 PM  

Well, I guess I'll just buy my squares and wait.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair January 29, 2017 2:00 PM  

That should read @32. My bad

Anonymous NateM January 29, 2017 2:01 PM  

@54 Henry is the Cuck Lorax and he Speaks for the Trees... I mean Faith

Anonymous Dan January 29, 2017 2:02 PM  

44. henry keller
You mean the article about the south african cuck?
So no christian site can show how the liberal ideas blow up in the face of sjws cause compassion for the sake of compassion?
So if your daughter sees a pervy homeless man she should endulge him cause of compassion.

Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 2:03 PM  

@47

His wife's boyfriend is the most embarrassed of all.

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 29, 2017 2:04 PM  

It's way past high time for some good old fashioned heretic and witch burnings…...

Anonymous Faceless January 29, 2017 2:05 PM  

More from the Gospel of Matthew:

6:1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

There is a lot of demands to take in these refugees as a ostentatious display of righteousness.

7:9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! "

What if your son asks for a country that was as good as you had? What if he asked for the land you inherited from your father? Freddie Mercury in "Father To Son" understood this obligation better than the people who speak against Trump.

12:48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

For those who have a problem with special consideration for the protection of Christians and other religious minorities persecuted among the Muslims.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 2:06 PM  

You're spammed, Henry Keller. You're blinder than Helen. And you're a liar. I particularly enjoyed the way you lied about the murdered man's nonexistent children.

We need a new term. What do you call the wife's son when the cuck is not even married to the woman?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 2:08 PM  

You mean the article about the south african cuck?
So no christian site can show how the liberal ideas blow up in the face of sjws cause compassion for the sake of compassion?


Exactly, Dan. That incident was a superb illustration that God is not mocked, and that whatever a man sows, he will also reap. Vox was simply celebrating God being proven right once again.

Wonder what poor Henry does with the language of the imprecatory Psalms, like "Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!"

Blogger SouthRon January 29, 2017 2:08 PM  

Jesuits and pikes. They go together.

As for Mt. 25, show me repentence, true and unfeigned, and I'll consider your crumbs, but not at the expense of my household and family.

People miss that the benefits had by the converted foreigner and the defeated native are of the overflow of God's blessings upon his obedient people. The national follower of Christ first, then the local followers of other nations.

As others have said the missionary commandment is "go ye" not "bring them".

Anonymous jakob January 29, 2017 2:08 PM  

jesuit watcher wrote:VD .. you do not speak for Christ, Christians or its Church .. You clear do not know what the passages you have used really mean...

Judeo-Christianity intensifies.

Anonymous Judeo-Christ January 29, 2017 2:13 PM  

@10 - So you are saying good Christians should bend over and take itlike a man? Is that What Jesus Would Do?

But I tell you, do not resist a foreigner. If anyone who is not white rapes your wife, offer him your daughter also.

Blogger Hugo Smith January 29, 2017 2:14 PM  

@31 Yes it can. Unless you're prepared to say that abstract principals can't be drawn from specific examples?

I agree that Israel can take them.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 2:16 PM  

Not mistreating foreigners and visitors is not the same thing as letting them become a part of your nation.

The Jews in Egypt ASKED the Pharaoh for land in Goshen to settle on. If you don't ask, it's an invasion.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 29, 2017 2:16 PM  

THE POWER OF JUDEO-CHRIST COMPELS YOU

Anonymous One Deplorable DT January 29, 2017 2:20 PM  

@60 - There is a lot of demands to take in these refugees as a ostentatious display of righteousness.

Correction: There are a lot of demands for OTHERS to take in these refugees as an ostentatious display of righteousness on the part of the one making the demands.

Let the liberals have their refugees under these rules: all expenses must be paid by the liberal including any assistance of any kind. Also, if the refugee commits any crime they shall be deported and the liberal shall serve the sentence, up to and including the death penalty. If the refugee kills more than one then apply the death penalty to an equal number of the liberal's family, then to their friends and associates.

See how many liberals open their doors then, and to who.

Anonymous Rent a car Bucuresti January 29, 2017 2:23 PM  

A very good article!

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 2:30 PM  

Ezra 9

After these things had been done, the leaders came to me and said, “The people of Israel, including the priests and the Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices, like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians and Amorites. 2 They have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, and have mingled the holy race with the peoples around them. And the leaders and officials have led the way in this unfaithfulness."

Any Churchians want to comment on this one and how importing those sad little Muslims is the biblical thing to do?

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein January 29, 2017 2:30 PM  

The God-emperor has made leftist forget all about the *separation of Church and State* and now they are quoting Bible verses to justify policy...

Best. Election. Ever.

Anonymous jakob January 29, 2017 2:30 PM  

Judeo-Christ wrote:But I tell you, do not resist a foreigner. If anyone who is not white rapes your wife, offer him your daughter also.

I'm rereading these words of our progressive Saviour again and again, they are akin to a balm for my soul in these dark times (in which we must not be divided).

OpenID paworldandtimes January 29, 2017 2:31 PM  

We need a new term. What do you call the wife's son when the cuck is not even married to the woman?

In non-cuck circumstances, the term is "mood killer."

PA

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky January 29, 2017 2:33 PM  

A new term? Cuckastard comes to mind.

Blogger Sean January 29, 2017 2:35 PM  

I fail to see how keeping foreigners from settling in our lands oppresses or mistreats them.

Anonymous Clay January 29, 2017 2:36 PM  

I couldn’t help but think of this, from C.S. Lewis:

“What some people say on earth is that the final loss of one soul gives the lie to all the joy of those who are saved."

"Ye see it does not."

"I feel in a way that it ought to."

"That sounds very merciful: but see what lurks behind it."

"What?"

"The demand of the loveless and the self-imprisoned that they should be allowed to blackmail the universe: that till they consent to be happy (on their own terms) no one else shall taste joy: that theirs should be the final power; that Hell should be able to veto Heaven."

"I don't know what I want, Sir."

"Son, son, it must be one way or the other. Either the day must come when joy prevails and all the makers of misery are no longer able to infect it: or else for ever and ever the makers of misery can destroy in others the happiness they reject for themselves. I know it has a grand sound to say ye'll accept no salvation which leaves even one creature in the dark outside. But watch that sophistry or ye'll make a Dog in a Manger the tyrant of the universe."

Anonymous One Deplorable DT January 29, 2017 2:37 PM  

@74 - damn it paworldandtimes, you owe me a keyboard.

Anonymous 360 January 29, 2017 2:37 PM  

First and foremost this is not a salvific issue. Whatever side you are on this is not a "denying the faith" instance.

There is a conflation between the individual and the nation(s) when it comes to this issue. The nation itself (which includes governmental policy) has its own uses that are not the same thing as the individual.

Most of the texts listed apply (in context) to the individual or individual nation, not the nations as a whole (unless it specifically mentions all nations).

Matthew 15:26 does not apply to the Christian's position on refugees. In the context of the book itself, it highlights the culture at the time of Jewish superiority and the separation between Jews and Greeks. The fact that Christ marveled at her faith and then healed her showed that He is in fact the one to bridge that gap. See also the book of Hebrews, etc.

1 Tim - Again, this is an individual mandate, not a national one. You, the Christian, are responsible for your family and Church. This is not to be applied to a nation's position on immigration.

Paul outlines clearly what the marks of a true Christian are in Romans 12:9-21.


Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord. Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.


You are not going to find national policy in scripture, it's not there. You are only going to find what you, as a believer, are to do in the moment that has been given you.

Blogger Rusty Fife January 29, 2017 2:40 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:

See how many liberals open their doors then, and to who.


In honor of BBGKB we should have a sexworker visa. Said visa holder is sponsored by a gay or spinster, my domocile with sponsor, and is required to be given $5k upon revocation of the visa with a plane ticket home to their native country. Visa my be revoked at anybtime by sponsor. $5k and ticket are bonded with the issuance of the visa.

Blogger Mastermind January 29, 2017 2:41 PM  

It's not mistreatment or oppression to not let foreigners into your country anyway. To say nothing of the fact that by Mosaic law they were second class citizens in Israel unless they converted to Judaism.

Blogger SouthRon January 29, 2017 2:41 PM  

VD wrote:We need a new term. What do you call the wife's son when the cuck is not even married to the woman?

Whore's child

Blogger Skyler the Weird January 29, 2017 2:42 PM  

What about the Centurion with the sick Servant? He rightly knew Christ had authority over disease so he asked him to speak the word rather than make himself ceremonially unclean by entering the House of a Gentile Roman invader.

It clearly shows Jews separated themselves from foreign invaders.

Anonymous gavin m. January 29, 2017 2:44 PM  

Totally didn't take those convenient quotes out of context, like those "churchians" of yours supposedly do. Also, nothing quite so "Christian" as intentionally causing hatred and divisions within your church, amirite... But I forget, you are a nondenominational of some or other description.

Anonymous 360 January 29, 2017 2:45 PM  

@83

And yet several instances he put himself in areas that would have made himself ceremonially unclean, fortunately the opposite happened.

Blogger Rusty Fife January 29, 2017 2:47 PM  

360 wrote:@83

And yet several instances he put himself in areas that would have made himself ceremonially unclean, fortunately the opposite happened.


The centurion didn't know that.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT January 29, 2017 2:48 PM  

@84 - I'm sure Vox feels your concern.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 29, 2017 2:48 PM  

Franklin Graham says you're a cuck:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/graham-trump-not-violate-bible-protecting-nation/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=PostUp&utm_campaign=ConservativeBrief&utm_content=2017-01-29

Anonymous 360 January 29, 2017 2:49 PM  

@71

I'll bite. The Israelites were called to separate themselves from those around them so that they could be a light to pagan nations. They failed. They were to keep laws to live a holy life. They failed. All the OT does is show the need for something outside yourself to save you. The NT reveals that that something is a person, Jesus.

As Vox already stated above. Israel≠ America. Your point is moot.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 2:50 PM  

84. gavin m.

Also, nothing quite so "Christian" as intentionally causing hatred and divisions within your church, amirite...

You would be right.

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Some Guy From The Bible

Anonymous 360 January 29, 2017 2:54 PM  

@86

A better example would be Peter's attitude in Galatians 2 towards the Gentiles when the other Jews showed up. Paul rebukes Peter for his actions:

"But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

"We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. "

Blogger Robert Browning January 29, 2017 2:54 PM  

That is right. Charity begins at home.

Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 2:54 PM  

Whore's child

Whoreson, for those feeling a bit more archaic.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 2:58 PM  

89. 360

@71

Your point is moot.

Then so is the Exodus quote you folks keep trotting out.

And didn't Jesus say that the law has NOT passed away?

Ezra 10:3

Now let us make a covenant before our God to send away all these women and their children, in accordance with the counsel of my lord and of those who fear the commands of our God. Let it be done according to the Law.

Anonymous Clay January 29, 2017 2:59 PM  

Lord have mercy. Every time the Jews come up, I get a feeling what will be the next post.

The Israelites were called to separate themselves from those around them so that they could be a light to pagan nations. They failed. They were to keep laws to live a holy life. They failed. All the OT does is show the need for something outside yourself to save you. The NT reveals that that something is a person, Jesus.

Who said this? Who supposedly wrote this?

Sigh.

Anonymous 360 January 29, 2017 3:00 PM  

@90

That passage is about the propagation of the gospel and the hostility that would ensue from sharing it (Jesus is talk to the Disciples).

You would want to look at Romans 16 and 1 Corinthians 1, 3, and 11 for verses that pertain to the actual church. Throw in Jude for good measure.

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 3:00 PM  

Totally didn't take those convenient quotes out of context, like those "churchians" of yours supposedly do.

They are not taken out of context. They clearly apply to the topic at hand.

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 3:01 PM  

I am not going to go through them all, but foreigners had obligations living in Israel. And the Jews had obligations: First and foremost, not to go after the foreigners strange gods, nor suffer them building their shrines to their strange gods, nor suffer that their strange gods take the place of Yahweh. Foreigners had obligations under biblical Jewish law, and many times under the penalty of death.

We have seen it over and over, when the Jews went after, and worshiped the foreigners strange gods, rather than the God of their fathers. And the penalty was FOREIGNERS.

And so it is today. America has gone over to foreigners and their strange "gods".

Remember, O Lord, what has befallen us; look, and see our disgrace! Our inheritance has been turned over to strangers, our homes to foreigners. We have become orphans, fatherless; our mothers are like widows.

Keep your feet from going unshod and your throat from thirst. But you said, ‘It is hopeless, for I have loved foreigners, and after them I will go.’

Only acknowledge your guilt, that you rebelled against the Lord your God and scattered your favors among foreigners under every green tree, and that you have not obeyed my voice, declares the Lord.

‘We are put to shame, for we have heard reproach; dishonor has covered our face, for foreigners have come into the holy places of the Lord's house.’

Your country lies desolate; your cities are burned with fire; in your very presence foreigners devour your land; it is desolate, as overthrown by foreigners.

For you have rejected your people, the house of Jacob, because they are full of things from the east and of fortune-tellers like the Philistines, and they strike hands with the children of foreigners.

The Lord has sworn by his right hand and by his mighty arm: “I will not again give your grain to be food for your enemies, and foreigners shall not drink your wine for which you have labored.

lest you give your honor to others and your years to the merciless, lest strangers take their fill of your strength, and your labors go to the house of a foreigner, and at the end of your life you groan, when your flesh and body are consumed.

Stretch out your hand from on high; rescue me and deliver me from the many waters, from the hand of foreigners.

The guests in my house and my maidservants count me as a stranger; I have become a foreigner in their eyes.


Rather than staying true to our God and our traditional idea's based on biblical freedom and liberty passed down to posterity, we have followed strange gods. And we have allowed foreigners to water that down even more by bringing in that foreign concept that has been ingrained in them by their own culture and "we" now emulate because feelz.

And remember, foreigners had no right to eat that which came off the altar.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 29, 2017 3:02 PM  

It's Hurricaning cucks in here!

Anonymous 360 January 29, 2017 3:02 PM  

@94

It's not something I trotted out. You are correct in saying the law will not pass away, it doesn't need to. Christ fulfilled the law. It's the only way anyone can fulfill the law.

Blogger M Cephas January 29, 2017 3:06 PM  

I think Thomas Aquinas was able to interpret scripture in regards to immigration well enough:
http://www.returntoorder.org/2014/07/saint-thomas-say-immigration-2/?utm_source=sm-rto&utm_medium=email&utm_content=RTOE0177&utm_campaign=rto_newsletter

I don't think What VD said about the text applying only to Jews is accurate, but it also does not mean one has to take in foreigners, allow them into their country, or whatever else the Churchian might think it says.

Anonymous 360 January 29, 2017 3:06 PM  

@95 It is throughout the entire narrative of the Old Testament. Start with Deuteronomy. I am not going to do your work for you. Just read it.

Anonymous Clay January 29, 2017 3:13 PM  

Well, thank you very much, 360.

I asked you...WHO wrote this information you quote?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 3:15 PM  

You are not going to find national policy in scripture, it's not there. You are only going to find what you, as a believer, are to do in the moment that has been given you.

Exactly. Otherwise, it should be the policy of the "Christian" U.S. to "turn the other cheek" when China nukes New York.

Uh, no. Not so much.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 3:17 PM  

And didn't Jesus say that the law has NOT passed away?

Uh. Sure. But ... um ... he was ALIVE then.

His death and resurrection may have kinda reordered the universe, no?

Blogger Ken Prescott January 29, 2017 3:18 PM  

I asked this:

"Give me a number; how many dead American citizens are enough for you?"

Keep asking that question. It is the question none of these people can answer.

Blogger Idunna B January 29, 2017 3:20 PM  

Funny how the secularists seem to know more about my faith than I do-- they love to quote the Bible and invoke the name of Jesus when they want to encourage some certain behavior, but then argue that the US isn't a Christian nation or founded on Christian principles.

Anonymous Roundtine January 29, 2017 3:21 PM  

It is not mistreating or oppressing a foreigner to deny them entry, particularly when they aren't really in need, but coming for gibsmedats. Nowhere did Jesus say open your door to the burglar and let him loot your family.

Blogger kh123 January 29, 2017 3:21 PM  

@64 "Judeo-Christianity intensifies."

Approaching Judeo-critical mass.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 3:25 PM  

105. 5343 Kinds of Deplorable

Uh. Sure. But ... um ... he was ALIVE then.

His death and resurrection may have kinda reordered the universe, no?


He didn't seem to think so, unless I don't fully understand what "until heaven and earth disappear" actually means?


For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven

Blogger Babydoc January 29, 2017 3:30 PM  

@61 - Pseudocuck?
Cucklit?
Hemi-cuck?

Take your pick.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) January 29, 2017 3:30 PM  

Zechariah 7 doesn't mention Egypt.

9“Thus says the LORD of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, 10do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart.”

That doesn't answer the question of what oppressing the sojourner is, however.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 29, 2017 3:31 PM  

@110. "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

-Matthew 22:37-40.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 29, 2017 3:32 PM  

@111. Babydoc,

Whoreson is traditional. Cuckstard would work as well.

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 3:34 PM  

The strong man has entered your house to steal and to spoil it, you have an obligation to bind the strong man.

I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Blogger Arithtoddle January 29, 2017 3:36 PM  

Can anyone who espouses the "God is love" mantra point out a single example from history that is a shining example of multiple races/identities living in close proximity that did not eventually end badly? And do these lunatics think the Tower of Babel is a fairy tale? As Vox has pointed out many times: any thought or action that is anti-reality is anti-God, period.

Blogger Karl January 29, 2017 3:38 PM  

I noticed as well the usual suspects (Schumer etc.) talking about the Statue of Liberty crying etc. It's creepy.

Steve Sailer calls this the "zeroeth" amendment. Steve is still using the dialectic response to claims about "nation of immigrants" etc. And there are plenty of well-researched, well reasoned histories of the statue, the process by which Emma Lazarus' poem got attached to it, which show that the original intent zzzzz....

Forget it. Idolaters are going to idolize, no matter what logical arguments are offered. We've been force fed idolatry for over 100 years over that damn fucking statue. I can remember the humongous celebration back in 86 for the statue's centennial with Reagan presiding. Looking back today, I can see that it was a religious celebration - for America's "civil religion" complete with the veneration of the great lady herself.

It is flat out pagan idolatry to demand that we all obey the tutelary goddess of New York in our national immigration policy.

I imagine that the protestants reading here would be put out if there was a giant statue of the Virgin Mary in New York harbor and everyone was demanding that you venerate and validate the statue's poem that we open the border.

To tie this back to the original topic of the post . . . Why would any Christian accept or validate or leave unchallenged a demand that you burn incense for Astarte, Ishtar, Libertas, or whatever other goddesses that statue represents by taking the cuckservative route of affirming we are a "nation of immigrants".

That's my 2c. Hopefully someone more skilled at writing (or with a bigger megaphone) can take it and use it. Anyone who quotes Exodus should be forced to explain the difference between the golden calf and the Statue of Liberty.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 29, 2017 3:38 PM  

@112. Josh, it's not hard, so don't let them pretend it's complicated. Oppression is obviously unjustly forcing things on someone. Telling someone who has no legal right to stay here the get the F out has nothing whatsoever to do with oppression. In truth, anyone trying to force a US Citizen to admit a foreigner is actually attempting to oppress that Citizen, and anyone admitting a foreigner while such action is opposed by the Citizens is oppressing the Citizenry.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) January 29, 2017 3:39 PM  

In Matthew 25, Jesus does include foreigners in His list of "the least of these:"

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 3:40 PM  

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Does anyone even grasp that?

Do you beat yourself up? Do you steal from yourself? Do you murder yourself? Treating others as you would wish to be treated is fine. It's not license for your neighbor to take advantage of you.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) January 29, 2017 3:40 PM  

Josh, it's not hard, so don't let them pretend it's complicated. Oppression is obviously unjustly forcing things on someone.

Agreed. Bombing the shit out of Syria or Yemen or Somalia is certainly much more oppressive to the foreigners there.

Blogger kh123 January 29, 2017 3:42 PM  

@106 The usual reply is a divert to "So then how about the number of people killed by guns. Still want your 2nd Amendment huh?!!"

Taking a page from here: Sure, so long as we ban cars, public school transportation and tricycles, since the death toll from any one of those activities will likely be equal or higher to the number of firearm homicides this year alone.

Then the usual feigned shock or typical Leftist salat of "Bullshit!," followed by pointing out that they obviously don't care if the death count is by accident, murder, or Islamic terrorism.

Might be too far down into the weeds this, but always like you said ask: How many women and children dying from exuberant lorry driving and enthusiastic cartoon critique they'd be cool with. "How many people dying for your spoon-fed idealism are you comfortable with. A baker's dozen? 50? 100? 500? A thousand? Somewhere in between a low Inquisition and a moderate Great Leap Forward?"

Blogger Resident Moron™ January 29, 2017 3:43 PM  

@haus frau.

Indeed. Moses also commanded that all foreigners in the land were to obey the laws of the land.

e.g. the sabbath commandment regarding doing no work ends wirh these words:

"... nor the stranger that is within thy gates"

Anonymous Anonymous January 29, 2017 3:43 PM  

Yeah they're def good at nepotism

OpenID captainramius January 29, 2017 3:44 PM  

The South Church in Boston (near Copley) has a banner up that says "Love thy (muslim) neighbor as thyself".

Blogger Ken Prescott January 29, 2017 3:50 PM  

"The usual reply is a divert to "So then how about the number of people killed by guns. Still want your 2nd Amendment huh?!!""

The answer to that is to politely redirect them back to your question.

Force them to either give a number (which makes them look like mass-murdering pieces of s---) or to keep dodging the question, which makes them look like dishonest mass murdering pieces of s---.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 3:50 PM  

Benjamin Kraft

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And who is my neighbour?

If you read the Parable of the Good Samaritan it seems to be the one willing to have your back, not simply close proximity or someone trying to screw you over.

Anonymous Jay Will January 29, 2017 3:51 PM  

Picture looks like a smirkier, nastier version of pajama boy.

Blogger Laurel Lowrey January 29, 2017 3:53 PM  

119: You said:
"In Matthew 25, Jesus does include foreigners in His list of "the least of these:"

WRONG.
You left out the first part of the passage:
Matthew 25:40
"...whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

And who are Jesus' brothers and sisters?

Matthew 12:50
"For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 3:53 PM  

That should say: "Love thy (Taqiyya) neighbor as thyself".

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 3:55 PM  

Theologically speaking, I am not at all sure one should quote 15:26 without also mentioning 15:28.

"You not only should, you must. 15:26 is the law. 15:28 is the exception, granted to her, and her alone, on the basis of her great faith."

Bluntly, I think that's nonsense. 15:26 is the bait for the disciples. 15:28 is the rule he wanted broadly applied. To find otherwise, you have to assume that he didn't know what was coming. This is worse than heresy; it's blasphemy because it's denying a fundamental aspect of His divinity.

Moreover, while the apostles probably still think of themselves as Jews, this woman is among the very first actual Christians. She is not, when she approaches Christ, anything but a Christian, and he has to know that, too.

He's teaching a lesson here, Vox, not laying down the law. And the lesson is neither that this woman is an unworthy dog, nor that He has come only to benefit the Jews.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 3:58 PM  

128. Laurel Lowrey

Matthew 12:50

"For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”


So No Muslims.

Anonymous Jay Will January 29, 2017 3:59 PM  

Forcible immigration onto the American people is the true oppression. As with Brexit, TPTB are anti-democrats. True liberty is freedom to associate with who you want to.

Pragmatically its perfectly sensible to not want a Syrian refugee to live next door to you after your own govt has bombed the hell out of his country.

Do it for the Greater Good of Israel Americans! Under the guise of humanitarian progress! A true christian would welcome his own dispossession!

Blogger Laurel Lowrey January 29, 2017 4:00 PM  

How could she be a Christian? Christ offered nothing non-Jewish to be saved by. That she accepted he was a great man, a healer plus? Absolutely. That's it.

Blogger Laurel Lowrey January 29, 2017 4:01 PM  

131; Not brothers and sisters, no. Neighbors? Unfortunately, but, yes.

Blogger Laurel Lowrey January 29, 2017 4:03 PM  

The Apostles were Jews from start to finish. They didn't stop being Jews until the Jewish leaders forced the schism. They believed forward, that Christ would come; they believed backward, that Christ had come. That was the Jewish schism. In that light, the Gospels are pre-Christian: Christ lived, taught, died under Jewish teaching, law and prophecy.

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 4:04 PM  

I'm seeing a lot of dishonesty here. Making the scripture fit "you" and "your" image. Or, molding God (and scripture/verse) into your own image.

Go get a bible that has NO "verse numbers" as originally written. Makes it a lot easier to NOT take "verse" out of context. After all, "thou shalt not live by verse alone".

Anonymous Jay Will January 29, 2017 4:05 PM  

As the christians engaged in theological discussion of what a "good" christian was, her enemies were busying themselves with taking over their lands.

The bible should be in order. First chapter deals with protecting its existence. Ask your Israeli friends!

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 4:07 PM  

She's a Christian because she's apparently accepted him as divine, a savior, and quite probably also as the son of God. he knows where the power lies and knows the demons possessing her daughter are simply outranked and outpowered.

The whole line about "only the lost sheep of Israel" would, if true and taken literally, mean that none of us are or can be saved, because we are not of Israel.

There's a great deal of arrant nonsense - see cartoon above - about what Christianity requires, but at a bare minimum it does not require that one be a Jew, nor of the "lost sheep of Israel." Hence Christ simply cannot have been serious in saying it, but only said it for a contrary teaching point.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 4:07 PM  

134. Laurel Lowrey

131; Not brothers and sisters, no. Neighbors? Unfortunately, but, yes.

Again...The Parable of the Good Samaritan.

The Levite and the Priest walked on by and didn't help.

The Samaritan did help and that was who Jesus said was a neighbor. The one who provided mercy and a helping hand.

If the guy next door wants you harmed he isn't your neighbor.

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 4:11 PM  

Note the line "you have great faith." God accepts mere faith in a healing shaman as "great faith." Puh-fucking-leeze.

Blogger Resident Moron™ January 29, 2017 4:12 PM  

@Karl

Good point. Yet the Christian churches are today so corrupt that they ARE actively preaching that all these pagan practices are equivalent to Christianity.

So the point only works on people who know that christianity is distinct from all other religions.

If a man approach it as a sociological enquiry, as the humanists do, then like them he will never be converted.

Anonymous the management January 29, 2017 4:13 PM  

Nehemiah built a wall.

Blogger Koanic January 29, 2017 4:14 PM  

"Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt."

The problem with Egypt was not letting My people go.

Deportation is obedience with alacrity on top!

The story also illustrates the dangers of Hebrew immigration.

At most, the sojourner has a right to safe passage, turning neither to the left nor the right, but keeping to the road, and paying for his food and water.

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 4:14 PM  

"I'm seeing a lot of dishonesty here. Making the scripture fit "you" and "your" image. Or, molding God (and scripture/verse) into your own image."

I've mentioned it before; much of my problem with Protestantism, in general, and sundry cultish forms of it, in particular is precisely the tendency to take tempting sound bites from scripture, which appeal mainly to the Protestant founder's vanity, as often as not, ignore all context, all logic, and all other scripture and build a threadbare faith around that.

Blogger Laurel Lowrey January 29, 2017 4:14 PM  

Jesus sent his disciples to the Jews, specifically NOT to Gentiles or Samaritans. Why? Because only His death could offer grace. The exceptions, like the Canaanite woman, reinforce His entire ministry being to the Jews.

Anonymous Jay Will January 29, 2017 4:15 PM  

It is not enough for you to bake that gay cake Christian bigot! I want you to do it with joy in your heart!

They want your soul.

Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 4:18 PM  

I've mentioned it before; much of my problem with Protestantism, in general, and sundry cultish forms of it, in particular is precisely the tendency to take tempting sound bites from scripture, which appeal mainly to the Protestant founder's vanity, as often as not, ignore all context, all logic, and all other scripture and build a threadbare faith around that.

As opposed to Catholic universalism and its present openly-Marxist pope? Colonel, please. I'd sooner follow Pepe than the present paynim pope.

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 4:21 PM  

I have issues with both liberation theology and the Pope, yes, Hesiod. They are somewhat different issues, of course.

Catholic means universal, so I am not sure which other aspect of Catholic universalism upsets you.

Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 4:22 PM  

Catholic means universal

There's your sign.

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 4:23 PM  

It's like taking your wine bag, pouring out half the wine, then refilling it with water.

And this is what we have done, or allowed to happen, to our country.

Or, the salt has lost its flavor. Not because there is no salt, but because it has been diluted with something else.

Seriously, there is so much to be gleamed from the bible. Too many people read it with their eyes and heart closed. Or read it as it were just a novel and just set it aside afterwards.

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 4:24 PM  

"Jesus sent his disciples to the Jews, specifically NOT to Gentiles or Samaritans. Why? Because only His death could offer grace. The exceptions, like the Canaanite woman, reinforce His entire ministry being to the Jews."

He already knows his body is going to die, Laurel; He already knows everything there is to know. Time means nothing to an omnipotent God. He knows what Christianity is. He knows it will arise, in the artificial construct, time, he created for us and for our benefit. And he intends that it do so. To deny any aspect of that is blasphemy. To insist on incidents contrary to those, is, once again, theologically suspect, at best. (I'm being kind here.)

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 4:25 PM  

That's not very illuminating, Hesiod. Try again, please.

Anonymous Clay January 29, 2017 4:28 PM  

Uh huh. Now, please don't misunderstand me...I have nothing whatsoever against Jews, but, at the same time, I have nothing for them, either.

They could be from Upper Eastern Southern Botswana for all I care.

But. All you Bible quoters are using a book, written mostly by Jewish folks to "make a point". (please feel free to correct me)

And most of you, I assume, believe that Jesus is our savior. And, believe in Hell!

My info says the Jews don't.

Ya know, if you want to ride an Indian motorcycle, and use a Harley manual, well, that's your choice.

Blogger Laurel Lowrey January 29, 2017 4:30 PM  

Aw, don't be dense. Of course Christ knew. The promises to the Jews had to be fulfilled; did God know the Jews would reject His promised Messiah? OF. Course. But GOD keeps/kept His promises to the Jews, with a few, a VERY few, non-Jews over HUNDREDS OF YEARS being the exception. Paul does NOT become an apostle until years after the Crucifixion, and he becomes what? THE Apostle to the Gentiles. Sequence of events matters in understanding the underlying plan of salvation. And keep your passive-aggressive tone to yourself.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 4:36 PM  

If Jesus was omniscient while in mortal form then what is this quote?

Mark 13:32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

"only the Father" and NOT the Son.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 29, 2017 4:40 PM  

Love thy Nazi neighbor as thyself.
Love thy KKK neighbor as thyself.
Love thy racist redneck neighbor as thyself.

Hey, this is a fun game!

Anonymous the management January 29, 2017 4:41 PM  

Tom Kratman wrote:Bluntly, I think that's nonsense. 15:26 is the bait for the disciples. 15:28 is the rule he wanted broadly applied.

TK, interesting take but, re-reading after your comment, I think 15:24 is the "bait". 15:26 gives the impression of a common folk saying that Jesus was quoting approvingly, to help make a point, which He also did elsewhere.

The implication is that Christ generally approved of taking care of those closest to you first (corroborated nicely by 1 Timothy 5:8 quoted above).

Kind of like He implicitly approved of wine by making and drinking it.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 4:42 PM  

He didn't seem to think so, unless I don't fully understand what "until heaven and earth disappear" actually means?

You're forgetting "until everything is accomplished."

After all, "It is finished."

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 4:43 PM  

Re: Peter, the Rock, and the Catholic Church - I have it starting at 5:24, but you would do will to start at the beginning.

Peter is not THE ROCK, nor is he the first "POPE" of the Catholic Church:

https://youtu.be/G8qOMY6CQ4k?t=5m24s

Listen and learn time, place, geography.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 29, 2017 4:44 PM  

Love thy neighbor Putin as thyself.
Love thy conservative neighbor as thyself.
Love thy rich neighbor as thyself.
Love thy snti-feminnist neighbor as thyself.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 4:46 PM  

156. Snidely Whiplash January 29, 2017 4:40 PM

Love thy Nazi neighbor as thyself.
Love thy KKK neighbor as thyself.
Love thy racist redneck neighbor as thyself.

Hey, this is a fun game!


Funny how the Churchian love never reaches that far?

Blogger Were-Puppy January 29, 2017 4:48 PM  

It didn't take long for the apostles of Judeo Christ to start chiming in

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 4:49 PM  

158. 5343 Kinds of Deplorable

After all, "It is finished."

So heaven and earth have disappeared?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 29, 2017 4:49 PM  

Elder Son wrote:Re: Peter, the Rock, and the Catholic Church - I have it starting at 5:24, but you would do will to start at the beginning.

Peter is not THE ROCK, nor is he the first "POPE" of the Catholic Church:

Listen and learn time, place, geography.


Yes, Catholic haters have spent hundreds of years creating that argument out of wholecloth. It is bad linuistics, it is bad theology, and it is dishonest argument.
We've heard it all before. It is neither dispositive, intelligent, nor persuasive.
Also the papacy is explicitly an office of the Catholic Church, and has no meaning outside that context. the sentence "{Peter was not the first pope (or POPE, as you have it), is literal nonsense.

Anonymous Tanjil Bren January 29, 2017 4:51 PM  

"But what about that verse from Exodus?"

What about it?

Old Testament, n'es pas?

Blogger praetorian January 29, 2017 4:52 PM  

Why, despite it all, I ended up catholic, the thread.

Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 4:53 PM  

That's not very illuminating, Hesiod. Try again, please.

Catholicism is suspicious because of its universalism precisely for the same reason secular political movements are contemptible for their universalism. You yourself have dedicated an entire series to this. History has shown Catholicism is quite willing to rob its subjugated nations to fund its Roman opulence and predominance. Martin Luther gave a huge middle finger to the Alexander VIs of the world and their bastard brood, and I thank him for it. Catholicism has been losing political ground ever since, and have moved more and more to the Left to maintain relevance. The current Pope Commie X proves this.

Anonymous Clay January 29, 2017 4:55 PM  

LOL. You folks still won't acknowledge the book you cherish so much was written by Jewish folk, the one you carry religiously into church, is by people who do not recognize Jesus is the savior of man.

I don't suppose there is any more to say.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 29, 2017 5:00 PM  

168. Clay January 29, 2017 4:55 PM

LOL. You folks still won't acknowledge the book you cherish so much was written by Jewish folk, the one you carry religiously into church, is by people who do not recognize Jesus is the savior of man.

Modern Talmudic Judaism is only remotely related to the faith of the Old Testament. So is Islam for that matter, but they didn't write the bible either. Both of them came hundreds of years after the New Testament was written.

Anonymous Tanjil Bren January 29, 2017 5:03 PM  

"I don't suppose there is any more to say."

I guess that entirely depends on whether one can be bothered addressing such appalling (if not wilful) ignorance...

Anonymous Tanjil Bren January 29, 2017 5:05 PM  

And just to clarify, I meant yours, not theirs...

Blogger Sheila4g January 29, 2017 5:08 PM  

@77 Clay: What book of Lewis is that excellent quote from?

Blogger Mrs. Mullata January 29, 2017 5:08 PM  

Vox, your hermeneutics are weak and I suspect you know it.

"It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs."
- Matthew 15:26

The implication of the question and born out by Jesus' response is that it is right to take the children's bread and give it to the dogs.

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
- 1 Timothy 5:8

Providing for ones own family doesn't preclude providing for another's family (so long as it doesn't prevent you from providing for your own.). For the refugees who are unable to provide for their families? Yes they are worse than unbelievers, but again this does not diminish the good of taking care of the "dogs."

But what about that verse from Exodus?

"Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
- Exodus 22:21"

This is God's law; little else in scripture is of more importance and seriousness. His followers follow His law. His law is that the foreigners not be oppressed. So, is this your God or not?

Alternatively, is your argument really that the law is close-ended and only for those who were slaves in Egypt? Then likewise Americans should not use honest scales and honest weights because Americans were not brought out of Egypt (Lev. 19:36). Absurd!

Blogger Were-Puppy January 29, 2017 5:08 PM  

@61 VD
We need a new term. What do you call the wife's son when the cuck is not even married to the woman?
---

Cuck + Bastard = Cuckstard

Blogger Laurel Lowrey January 29, 2017 5:09 PM  

Correction: The Bible, OT and NT, was written by men of God. THEY certainly believed in the promised Messiah before He was born. THEY wrote the Bible. Not the surrounding population, whom even Elijah at one point lamented, were not true followers of God.

Anonymous Clay January 29, 2017 5:11 PM  

Oh, man, I hate ignorance Tanjii! Please explain to me how a book, written by mostly Jewish folk, is the Bible of Christians. Would a Jew like being called a Christian?

Folks like you help me understand such complicated theological questions.

Anonymous Zion's Paladin January 29, 2017 5:15 PM  

Sheila4g wrote:@77 Clay: What book of Lewis is that excellent quote from?

Sheila, it's from The Great Divorce.

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 5:20 PM  

@164 That is pretty weak considering historical and biblical evidence. And kissing the feet of Mary statute.

Anonymous Clay January 29, 2017 5:20 PM  

172. Sheila4g January 29, 2017 5:08 PM
@77 Clay: What book of Lewis is that excellent quote from?

Wasn't me, sweetheart. I haven't read Lewis in many, many years.

Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 5:22 PM  

I haven't read in many, many years.

Apologies, VD, for touching the poo. But this was too good to pass up!

Anonymous Tanjil Bren January 29, 2017 5:25 PM  

"Oh, man, I hate ignorance Tanjii! Please explain to me how a book, written by mostly Jewish folk, is the Bible of Christians. Would a Jew like being called a Christian?

Folks like you help me understand such complicated theological questions."

I stand corrected.

It's not ignorance we're dealing with here.

It's idiocy.

(And I can't quite believe you actually posted this thinking it was some kind of snappy reposte...)

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 5:29 PM  

Ah, I see you are confusing the all-too-human Vatican, replete with human failings through most of its history, and the universal message and doctrine. That's perhaps understandable, but also perhaps not sound.

Actually, though I found Luther's theology highly questionable and, indeed, unbiblical in some key particulars, I think he did the Catholic Church a great favor by causing it to reflect on its own sins and, insofar as a human institution is capable, reform itself.

As for it's losing ground...some places, some times. It's also gained ground, to include against the Reformation, at its greatest extent. However, it's not in nearly as bad a shape as various Protestant denoms that decided to get even more "relevant" and "with it" and "inclusive" through the 60s and 70s. I am thinking especially, say, of the Episcopals, which gave considerable evidence of being just another arm of the COMINTERN.

One thing to consider; the Catholic Church is internally fractured along a number of fault lines, from Jesuit Liberation Theologians in Latin America to conservative Jesuits to hypocritical perverts masquerading as priests to admirably right wing militarists like, arguably, Cardinal O'Brien, to pick your weirdness. It's human run, and large, and so can be expected to have at least a proportional representation of all human ills.

Anonymous Clay January 29, 2017 5:29 PM  

Because I knew I would get no answer...except for insult.

Blogger Were-Puppy January 29, 2017 5:31 PM  

@154 Laurel Lowrey

And keep your passive-aggressive tone to yourself.
---

:P That got a big chuckle out of me! I've never thought of Kratman as passive-aggressive LOL

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 5:38 PM  

In Matthew 25, Jesus does include foreigners in His list of "the least of these:"

Mercy, Josh. The "sojourner" in the Law was some poor guy and his family straggling across the border with his family because of a famine. Neither the Law of Moses nor the Lord Jesus can possibly have been expected to give direction about 65 million invaders as if they qualified.

Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 5:50 PM  

Ah, I see you are confusing the all-too-human Vatican, replete with human failings through most of its history, and the universal message and doctrine. That's perhaps understandable, but also perhaps not sound.

This is why I do not consider myself Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, but a mere Christian. Human institutions suck; I'll stick with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Apologies if I came off busting your Catholic balls, but I was brought up Protestant, and leapt to support the home team so to speak. I have much respect for you and many other Catholics; indeed I loves me some St. Thomas Aquinas.

Blogger Elder Son January 29, 2017 5:53 PM  

And considering, "The gates of hell shall prevail against it", and the Catholic Churches various "Popes", including the current "Pope".

But then, I'm not poking at just the Catholic Church. There's the Nazarene Church, the Baptist Church, the Lutheran Church, and all etc. proclaiming to be the "true" Church with the "true" gospel.

Blogger Sean Carnegie January 29, 2017 5:58 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Aphelion January 29, 2017 5:59 PM  

“Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?” 2 Corinthians 6:14

Blogger tz January 29, 2017 5:59 PM  

Stefan nailed it when he noted that you are literally harming 12 refugees over there when you virtue signal by bringing one here.

As to treatment of foreigners, refugees aren't "foreigners". Those coming in illegally aren't "foreigners".

It is equally slanders Christ and his church to be mindlessly brutal or to be patsies. Somehow showing a stupid, naive Jesus is anti-evangelism.

Blogger Sean Carnegie January 29, 2017 6:02 PM  

@187

Don't even bother explaining hermeneutics, context or anything to the papists. After spending their time being told what it means rather than actually reading the Bible, they're rather handicapped in its usage.

Blogger KSC January 29, 2017 6:11 PM  

So I suppose Christians aren't under the ten commandments either, since God prefaces them with the fact that he brought Israel "out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery?"

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 6:11 PM  

TM, you can certainly take 24 and 26 in pari materia, since both reinforce each other and both are refuted by 28.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable January 29, 2017 6:13 PM  

So I suppose Christians aren't under the ten commandments either

Oh, no doubt Christians would be inclined to obey them, but for entirely different reasons than Jews would in the time of Moses.

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 6:16 PM  

@184:

I didn't think he was talking to me, Were-P, since I wasn't being passive aggressive, but uncharacteristically polite. I try to be polite, when engaging in theological argument, because, after all, I am only human and do not _know_ the truth.

Blogger KSC January 29, 2017 6:19 PM  

Not what I asked: I asked if Christians were morally obligated to obey them. They come with a similar clause to the verse VD is referring to; he argues that, because of that clause, the command about not oppressing foreigners only applies to Israel. By analogy, the ten commandments only apply to Israel. If he's willing to go this route, he should admit it; he's never had much of an issue disclosing heresy.

Blogger Tom Kratman January 29, 2017 6:22 PM  

"Human institutions suck"

Generally, yes. OTOH, the Catholic Church gives me a place, sometimes nice and sometimes breathtaking* to commune with my God. I could do it anywhere, of course, but I find the earthly shadow of the beauty of the divine to be helpful.

*Breathtaking. Aunt's funeral, 16 months ago, was held at what is still our family church, here: https://www.gateofheavenstbrigid.org/. The Gate of Heaven, pay not attention to St. Bridgets, it's so-so. Buddhist girl, friend of aunt's daughters, comes in, takes one look at the interior, and gasps. Think I, approximately, "Aha; another soul garnered for Holy Mother Church by one of God's tools, beauty."

Blogger VD January 29, 2017 6:33 PM  

Vox, your hermeneutics are weak and I suspect you know it.

I think "hermeneutics" is the way that rather thick people try to disguise the way they claim that the Bible says something other than what it clearly does.

Bluntly, I think that's nonsense. 15:26 is the bait for the disciples. 15:28 is the rule he wanted broadly applied. To find otherwise, you have to assume that he didn't know what was coming. This is worse than heresy; it's blasphemy because it's denying a fundamental aspect of His divinity.

I don't think he did know what was coming. I very much doubt Jesus Christ's entire time on Earth was him simply going through the motions. But if you're going to feed the dogs instead of the kids, well, that's on you.

And if you think implying that Jesus, or God, didn't know something at any given point is blasphemous, well, you'd better throw out that blasphemous Bible and let your priest interpret it for you.

It never changes. Catholics, Protestants, Calvinists, everyone has their explanation for why the obvious meaning MUST be wrong in favor of their bizarre contorted reasoning.

This is why I pay no attention to most theologians. I can find the obvious flaws in their logic as easily as I do in the Greek philosophers and in what passes for atheist philosophy.

Anonymous Hesiod January 29, 2017 6:33 PM  

We are an urban, multi-ethnic, socially, culturally, and educationally diverse faith community.

Back to well-deserved snickering.

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