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Sunday, January 08, 2017

That is not clarifying

Hunter Wallace doesn't so much clear things up as add to the confusion by making similar mistakes about the Alt-Lite that many in the mainstream make about the the Alt-Right.
First and foremost, the Alt-Lite are marketers who are driven by the economics of viral clickbait media. The brands aren’t particularly philosophical about what they do. We’re the ones who think in terms of ideas. Case in point, we’re the ones who coined the term “Alt-Lite” in order to distinguish them from other conservatives. We’re the ones who call them “civic nationalists.” They still don’t even know what they believe.

If the Alt-Lite brands are civic nationalists, why is their hallmark the business of trafficking in polarizing racial clickbait on social media? What are they even doing in our neighborhood of the internet? Blacks and Muslims should be our fellow Americans because the country doesn’t have any ethnic, cultural, racial or religious foundation. Cernovich is a brand, Gorilla Mindset, so he casually dispenses with *tolerance* (whether of women, different religions, different races) in order to create engagement.

It’s funny to watch the Alt-Lite throw around terms like “Western civilization” or “populism” which quite obviously mean completely different things to them. When they say “Western civilization,” they mean liberalism like other mainstream conservatives. When they say “populism,” they think that means “supporting Trump” or like Bill Mitchell being vaguely against the Republican establishment.

These people are not great thinkers. What kind of populist demands $10,000 as a “prize” to debate someone? What kind of populist talks about purging gammas? What kind of populist talks about losers who are “too poor for my time?” What kind of populist talks about himself as a brand? The #Deploraball controversy, which has devolved into the question of who’s in and who’s out, has already exposed the faux populism of the Alt-Lite.
This is why the Alt-West is the future of the Alt-Right and not the Alt-White. The latter not only insists upon a one-size-fits-all tactical approach, but it refuses to be honest with itself about the observable realities of its potential adherents. It's a bit ironic for Hunter Wallace to denigrate the thinking ability of the Alt-Lite opinion leaders considering how many obvious errors he commits here.

The Alt-Lite are not mere clickbait chasers. That's a category error; the Alt-Lite isn't just the PJWs, Mike Cernovichs, and MILOs, it's the entire pool of their conservative and libertarian supporters who are inclined to sympathize to some extent with the Alt-Right. The Alt-Lite consists of those who agree with some of the 16 Points, but not enough to be genuinely characterized as Alt Right. There is no hard line, the distinction is a gradient. And it's foolish to dismiss smart, popular, effective individuals such as PJW, Mike, and Milo as clickbait chasers anyhow, even if one disagrees with them.

Some Alt-Lite leaders are civic nationalists. Others are genuine nationalists. The same is true of those who follow them, but the contradiction Wallace sees is the result of everyone in the Alt-Lite being in transition from civic nationalism to nationalism as a result of current events. The Alt-West is absolutely NOT civic nationalist; I don't know if anyone has done more to tear down the precepts of civic nationalism in the last 18 months than the brilliant and unquestionably handsome authors of Cuckservative. This ongoing transition is why the growth of the Alt-Right is inevitable, and the fact that the Alt-West welcomes newcomers while the Alt-White openly scorns them is another reason why the latter is likely to fade into irrelevance over time.

(It's also rather funny to see the Alt-White ready to go to war with all and sundry to protect "their" brand while also denouncing an Alt-Liter who is considerably better at marketing for talking about himself as a brand. Of course, if marketing acument, or consistency, or even coherency, was in their wheelhouse, they wouldn't call themselves white nationalist neo-Nazis in the first place.)

Nobody of whom I am aware conflates Western civilization with liberalism or even Western democracy. That's not possible, as Western civilization obviously predates both. And populism is synonymous with the Trump campaign; Trump is himself a civic nationalist. And in answer to his questions:
  1. Mike is both popular and a populist. He has offered $10k to debate others on several occasions to demonstrate his seriousness, and the fact that the Alt-White can't, or won't, come up with such a relatively small sum to debate him about whatever it is they want to debate him about simply shows either a) how small their numbers are, or, b) that the challenge is not a serious one.
  2. I'm not Alt-Lite. And I'm not a populist. I am, and have always been, an elitist. That's natural, of course, since I am, statistically speaking, more intelligent than something like 7.49 billion of the people on the planet. What sort of populist lives by the mantra MPAI? As for purging gammas, I was only referring to my blog; I don't question the right of gammas to live as self-deluded secret kings in the privacy of their own homes, I just don't want to listen to them.
  3. A populist who knows how to prioritize, presumably.
  4. I didn't care about prom and I still don't care about balls, so I can't even begin to address this statement.
One should never describe things as one wishes them to be, but rather, as they are. To do otherwise is magical thinking, which tends to achieve results akin to those achieved by the famous cargo cults of yore. The Alt-Lite is not going away, as it, too, is growing, as whites in the mainstream continue to be driven rightward by the identity politics of the non-whites to their Left. This is all a good thing, and if the Alt-White were smart, it would be attempting to appeal to the Alt-West and the Alt-Lite alike, not alternating between denying their existence and attacking them.

Labels:

203 Comments:

1 – 200 of 203 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Dave January 08, 2017 11:15 AM  

Ow my balls!

Blogger Johnny January 08, 2017 11:41 AM  

What I would look for is SJW (hard left) inroaders. The new conservative, compassionate conservative crap recycled on the AltRight. Otherwise things don't seem clear enough to me to draw any certain conclusions.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2017 11:42 AM  

Yes, but Idiocracy was not a comedy.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 11:44 AM  

There are certainly things to avoid. For the Alt-West, the primary one is to keep the civic nationalists and race-deniers out. If you don't believe racial differences exist or are convinced that all black social pathologies are the result of LBJ's social policies, or believe that moderate Islam is compatible with Western civilization, you are not Alt-Right.

Anonymous stuff January 08, 2017 11:45 AM  

No idea who hunter is and i doubt he was talking about you or this blog.

Without a doubt Watson, Cernovich and Mitchell are throwing punches and the other guys are punching back. Both Mitchell and Cernovich have completely lost it. It would help Cernovich a lot if a friend would talk to him about his insane ramblings on periscope. And no, I'm not looking for a reply or even acknowledgment of this comment. Neither am I looking for a ban or gamma insults. It's a take it or leave it advice.

Anonymous BBGKB January 08, 2017 11:50 AM  

I don't question the right of gammas to live as self-deluded secret kings in the privacy of their own homes

Gives new meaning to "a man's home is his castle"

Yes, but Idiocracy was not a comedy.

Its the scariest movie I ever saw.

OT: CA's child prostitution legalization law worse than we thought.
http://www.returnofkings.com/111556/california-law-sb-1322-greenlights-child-prostitution-criminalizes-being-poor

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2017 11:51 AM  

The polarization of peoples has only just begun, and no man, committee thereof or marketing brand will alter the trajectory one bit.

In 1999 We were the World. By 2030, 2050 or 2100 the dominant notion for everyone of consequence will be "nits turn into lice." That is just how bereft of compassion or even mercy will be common people of each separate group.

Survival will be found by both defending geographic in-grouping and relentlessly eliminating real, potential or even imagined threats.

Anonymous Casey January 08, 2017 11:52 AM  

From what I've seen, those who continue to identity as Libertarian are extremely hostile to any category of the Alt-Right. In fact, they're about as tone deaf as any SJW on the subject.

I said very early on, when it became evident that the MSM narrative couldn't diminish Trump's support in the primary that Trump is where the old Liberty Movement people had gathered. I still think so.

I don't expect anything positive to come from those who continue to wave the old Libertarian banner. Their ideology and methods are far too weak to compete with the realities of establishment politics.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 08, 2017 11:54 AM  

Who this Hunter Wallace dude is and what the Occidental Quarterly is, I have no idea. Another blog surfaces with an opinion on the alt Right? Great!

It is a good thing that previously unknown, low traffic bloggers are suddenly appearing with comments about the alt Right. They've stopped ignoring reality, and have to pay attention to something other than whatever Mean Girl fight they've been having with other low traffic blogs.

This is progress.

Blogger Some Dude January 08, 2017 11:58 AM  

If you want to be prissy about it, the alt lite is to alt right what SJW useful idiot is to Frankfurt Post Modern Philosophy.

I see no problems at all with Mike, Milo, Hopkins, etc

I've never read anything of Mike's where I said to myself - that's a total lie, that's downplaying, that's bad journalism, that's not useful.

Whereas the opposition is based on sophistry in the first higher level, and mere hoax/lies/sloganeering on the lower SJW rung.

Zion>Frankfurt>SJW

?>Alt Right>Alt Lite

As you go up the chain the intellectual depth is stronger, and the anonymity more pervasive.

Blogger Dave January 08, 2017 11:59 AM  

This is foolishness. Taxonomic pedantry serves no useful purpose. It doesn't even make for interesting blog reading.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2017 12:00 PM  

For the Alt-West, the primary one is to keep the civic nationalists and race-deniers out. If you don't believe racial differences exist or are convinced that all black social pathologies are the result of LBJ's social policies, or believe that moderate Islam is compatible with Western civilization, you are not Alt-Right.

No group that remains comfortable with delusions that underpinned the slide into this deep pit will survive.

Live and let live may be compatible for a short time, if such "allies" are geographically segregated, but eventually those fault lines, too, will become battlefields.

When I imagine the granularity of in-group trust necessary to counterbalance the insane levels of pathological openness of recent decades, it's clear that even small differences in "doctrine" will eventually be intolerable. I may not live long enough to see it, but these things do tend to balance out eventually.

Blogger S1AL January 08, 2017 12:03 PM  

The jealousy is palpable. That's what happens when neo-socialists talk about successful people.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) January 08, 2017 12:04 PM  

Is there a good definition of civic nationalism?

Blogger Some Dude January 08, 2017 12:04 PM  

To be honest anyone for open borders, no matter what their stance is on any other issue should be fucked out. If you want to be a crypto-zoologist-anarcho-capitalist-sadomasochist-dildo salesman but most importantly are for shooting immigrants as they come over the border, I'm in the trenches with you buddy!

Blogger Dave January 08, 2017 12:06 PM  

This is foolishness. Taxonomic pedantry serves no useful purpose. It doesn't even make for interesting blog reading.

I wouldn't say that.

Blogger Some Dude January 08, 2017 12:06 PM  

If you met a bunch of african american brothas, and they said they wanted to come along with their glocks and defend the border, are you going to tell them to go fuck themselves is a better question, than this prissy labelling stuff.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2017 12:07 PM  

From what I've seen, those who continue to identity as Libertarian are extremely hostile to any category of the Alt-Right. In fact, they're about as tone deaf as any SJW on the subject.

Reason Ragazine was the harbinger of the split in libertarian-land. Another signal was LewRockwell.com turning into the Ron Paul Show during his presidential campaign.

Along came Jeff Tucker & the term "brutalist" and mainstream libertarianism veered Hard Left and became a philosophical dead end.

It remains difficult for me to watch people I once truly respected espouse beliefs just as incompatible with reality as any zealot of the Equals Temple cult.

Blogger Matt January 08, 2017 12:11 PM  

@stuff

What has Cernovich done to make you say he's "lost it"?

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2017 12:12 PM  

When one of Chicago's street gangs sends a unit to help police the NM border, I'll not be the first to expect a surge in cocaine & heroine availability in Englewood.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 08, 2017 12:14 PM  

Then again, maybe Englewood could use a few Joans of Arc.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 12:16 PM  

In 1999 We were the World. By 2030, 2050 or 2100 the dominant notion for everyone of consequence will be "nits turn into lice." That is just how bereft of compassion or even mercy will be common people of each separate group.

@7 dc.sunsets
There will be a LOT more blacks and Muslims around in the coming years. They by themselves will do the trick handily, leaving secular humanitarian universalism a smoking ruin that will be abandoned for at least hundreds of years.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 12:18 PM  

From what I've seen, those who continue to identity as Libertarian are extremely hostile to any category of the Alt-Right. In fact, they're about as tone deaf as any SJW on the subject.

@8 Casey
Along those lines: WTF is up with Ron Paul? He's now constantly attacking Trump and defending free trade and immigration as equivalent to "liberty". Sounds like he's bought too much of his own BS. I'm glad he wasn't able to get anywhere in 2008 and 2012. He would've been a disaster.

Blogger Duinne Eile January 08, 2017 12:25 PM  

Who this Hunter Wallace dude is and what the Occidental Quarterly is, I have no idea. Another blog surfaces with an opinion on the alt Right? Great!


I think Kevin MacDonald is behind the OQ, so it is worth your time, as is any thing MacDonald writes, every one on the right, alt-right or not needs to read his Culture of Critique book ASAP

Blogger tz January 08, 2017 12:28 PM  

I think civic nationalism is the "all men are created equal", like the hateful 4, their victim, and everyone else.
Family and tribe are strong identities.
Ideology is at best weak - would you divorce a lovimg spouse because she wouldn't follow you into objectivism.
You aren't going to get Al Sharpton to adopt the Constitution. Glenn Beck wants to futiley try to convert progressives forgetting they don't like checks and balances and want all that is Christian destroyed.
The losertarians are like tne cuckservatives, discussing how their anarchic utopia can build private roads and otner irrelevant minutiae. They keep losing, and given the LP convention have lost what was left of their minds.

The Right is splitting into the lame or dead cucks, the Constitutional equality whigs, and the rest somewhere on the Alt spectrum.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 12:28 PM  

Is there a good definition of civic nationalism?

The idea that nationalism is based on citizenship, not genetic kinship. In other words, it's fruit of proposition nation ideology.

Anonymous BBGKB January 08, 2017 12:34 PM  

african american brothas, and they said they wanted to come along with their glocks and defend the border, are you going to tell them to go fuck themselves is a better question

Quite writing fantasy porn for MILO, even he has low expectations for black men.

Chicago's street gangs sends a unit to help police the NM border, I'll not be the first to expect a surge in cocaine & heroine availability

I don't think the availability will be increased, only that the price might go down.

Blogger Cerdic Ricing January 08, 2017 12:45 PM  

The alt-lite is much better at branding than most of the alt-white, which is why they consistently have large followings. PJW, Mike, Milo, etc. reach many more people than most of them.

I've never much understood why they need to attack those people consistently. It should be understood that they're not "us" so to say, and it should be understood that they have their failings. However, for the most part, they are attacking our enemies and are quite effective at it. Milo went into the heart of the campuses and fought feminism. I disagree with him, but as I've heard, a Sith Lord can still teach you the force. There's a lot to learn from him, shall we cuck out on learning methodology from him in the same way the conservatives cucked out on Alinsky's tactics for so long? Even otherwise, if Milo is leading this crusade to destroy some our enemies, so to say, is it so damn hard to just let him?

Strategy is not their bright point. Many of them question whether Stefan will ever "come to our side," like that's a passive triviality. Stefan reaches so many people that we should want him to come to our side, to the point where that should even be an active goal, strategically. The whole concept of acquiring allies and assets seems to be lost. None of them are people I'd want as my general, and that's most of why I don't side with the alt-white on most things. Consistently, these people seem out of touch with anything as far as actually getting the job done is concerned.

Anonymous LikeLiterallyPinochet January 08, 2017 12:47 PM  

I always found Cernovich sensible in his approach to just daily life as a guy (like Gorilla Mindset), as a veteran and Gen-Xer myself. I never kept up with the drama within the Alt.whatever, but when I heard a breakdown of this thing with this Baked Alaska guy, and then a reading of Mike's old tweets (apparently since deleted?) I lost all respect for the guy. It pretty much related to race and the JQ.

Either he's the victim of the world's most efficient and on point trolling (complete with "forged" as it were, tweets and other quotes), or he is a phony hypocrite simply protecting his brand. I wouldn't want to think that of him as he has been so damn right about things with the media and how to take the fight to them and SJWs.

Anonymous Galactic Starfleets of Deplorable Spartacus January 08, 2017 12:49 PM  

the brilliant and unquestionably handsome authors of Cuckservative.

Cannot refute, but. must. sperg-

Hurr, durr, http://www.countrymeters.info/en/World/ says 7.48ish billion current population. That leaves about -1,500,000 negative unpeople that are statistically not as intelligent as Vox.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 12:52 PM  

I lost all respect for the guy.

That's nice.

I wouldn't want to think that of him as he has been so damn right about things with the media and how to take the fight to them and SJWs.

So, he's so damn right, but you have no respect for him. And you wonder why we think the Alt-White is incoherent?

The core problem is that all you guys are looking for a leader. Well, Mike isn't it. MILO isn't it. Stefan isn't it. Take what they have to offer that is useful and ignore the rest. Is that really so difficult?

Blogger Nate January 08, 2017 12:54 PM  

Ya know... if these people would be making so much more progress if they would just... shut.. the fuck... up.

Anonymous PinochetsChopperPilot January 08, 2017 12:56 PM  

Cerdic, after listening to hundreds of hours of Stefan, I would be pretty certain that he is one of us, to the core. He's pretty much in completely agreement on Race and IQ, and lives a comfortable enough life and enjoys enough internetz fame he is never going to have to fight for a White Caliphate any time soon.

Milo, like Trump, has done his part is completely opening and crawling thru the Overton Window that is your feminist sister's glass pane worldview and for that he should be applauded. He has done something the "right" has never been good at: Been relatively funny, irreverent, and has completely and mercilessly mocked feminists (and to a degree, pro-dindus--regardless of how many he sucks).

I've always believed the first rung on our journey was to make our adversaries "not the cool kids", as simple and childish as that seems. They've been the establishment, as we know, for decades, but until the last couple of years, have never been successfully cornered, named and tagged for being who they are--the largely rich, often old, 'establishmentarianists" that run everything, and have for the most part, been in charge of everything (media, academia, congress, presidency) and thus, are to blame for everything--and being on THEIR side makes one "part of the system".

Milo, like Trump, and Vox and Cernovich as well, have been part of deconstructing them--including the cucks on the "right".

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 12:56 PM  

And if Hunter wants to debate any of this, I'll be happy to debate him on Brainstorm for free, as long as he understands that my willingness to do so does not make me a populist.

That's asking a lot. They aren't all magical thinkers but they are trying very hard to be, as part of their ideological foundation.

Cerdic Ricing wrote:I've never much understood why they need to attack those people consistently.

Because the alt-white was a subculture before it was a political movement.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 1:00 PM  

I'll put it this way...if you believe in using the law of attraction for demagogy, then you're ideologically bound to see the world you want more clearly than the one that's in front of you. This probably overwrites the brain's object permanence over time.

Anonymous KeptPinochetsListOfNames January 08, 2017 1:03 PM  

VD, I lost respect for him, based upon what I heard, because it sounded like he was hurting the Alt.White cause that legitimately JQs. Btw, there's nothing wrong with a guy changing his mind, but it sounded like he tangled with aspects of the Alt.white, then it turns out he had written some tribal material himself (which he then deleted). I have no problem with anyone grabbing their part of the fabric that is the Alt-Right and rolling with it--but we shouldn't be taking down fellow travelers.

Anonymous VFM #6306 January 08, 2017 1:05 PM  

VD wrote:

The core problem is that all you guys are looking for a leader. Well, Mike isn't it. MILO isn't it. Stefan isn't it. Take what they have to offer that is useful and ignore the rest. Is that really so difficult?


They are not incoherent! They are simply waiting for a true and inspiring Pan-Germanist like Martin Luther King, Jr. to return on his White (((Nationalist))) Gelding to lead them all into the promised land of Jutland to fight against the Danes and be protected...

...from whites like Cernovich and Milo.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 1:06 PM  

(I have a blog post about this titled "concept permanence" for anyone who's interested enough to seek it out without a direct link.)

Anonymous Galactic Starfleets of Deplorable Spartacus January 08, 2017 1:07 PM  

tz wrote:The Right is splitting into the lame or dead cucks

Lame cuck: A cuck who is reaching the end of his term and cannot be resurrected in current year. Or something like that.

Blogger Cerdic Ricing January 08, 2017 1:14 PM  

I would be pretty certain that he is one of us, to the core

I agree. His progression seems publicly deliberate, and the amount of work he's doing is outstanding. Although he may seem "lite", his videos have done much more for normalizing the right viewpoints than most other things.

"Because the alt-white was a subculture before it was a political movement."

That makes sense, they more defend their subculture than actively look at achieving goals.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 1:16 PM  

S1AL wrote:The jealousy is palpable. That's what happens when neo-socialists talk about successful people.

Jealousy is not the motive here. The alt-white is genuinely worried about being co-opted and gelded.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 1:22 PM  

In comparison to the alt-white's subculture, the alt-west is merely a demographic that is still fat, happy, and largely immobile. This will change if the economic situation declines.

Blogger Sheila4g January 08, 2017 1:30 PM  

@24 Duinne Eile: "Who this Hunter Wallace dude is and what the Occidental Quarterly is, I have no idea. Another blog surfaces with an opinion on the alt Right? Great!"

Not to be a pedant (if your comment was intended as sarcasm, my apologies) but I've been reading/lurking around the fringes of the Alt-Right for more years than I've been reading Vox. Hunter Wallace has been around, in various iterations, for a long time. He has always been a larger part of Southern Nationalism but still a subset of the Alt-Right. His site is distinct from Occidental Quarterly, site of Kevin MacDonald, which is also well worth reading. I believe I started reading both back when I began reading the first of Vanishing American's blog (which she's started and stopped for many years now).

I've noted before that I find Cernovich's aggressive marketing (and that of others) distasteful and offputting, but other than that I take no sides in this whole spat and find it unnecessary (perhaps I'm missing a central issue, but I don't think so). The Alt-Lite has myriad branches/divisions, but what makes them Alt-Lite (even if in transition) is their intransigence (at least thus far) on the racial question and acknowledgment of Jewish involvement/culpability. There is a greater and lesser focus on both of those at various Alt-White sites. I read and learn from all of them.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 08, 2017 1:31 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:There will be a LOT more blacks and Muslims around in the coming years. They by themselves will do the trick handily, leaving secular humanitarian universalism a smoking ruin that will be abandoned for at least hundreds of years.

Yep. Analogous to the saying (for markets) that "the cure for low prices is low prices" (and the obverse).

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 1:35 PM  

What kind of populist talks about purging gammas?

The Alt-White would do well to purge its Gammas, or at the very least, if possible, to get them to siddown and shuddup. For example, at The Daily Stormer, Anglin and most of the saner posters are non-Gammas -- in fact, the board as a whole is a lot less Gamma than Stormfront -- but they are still far too indulgent of Gammas who are out loud and proud white nationalist. Heck, they have even tolerated moon-hoaxers and flat-earthers.

The fire coming from the Alt-White into the Alt-Lite would be coming, I imagine, either from Alphas or Gammas. And somehow I suspect they're short on Alphas right now.

Allowing Gammas to mouth off in your organization is nearly as bad as allowing in SJWs. They may not converge it to the Left, but they'll still gum up the works very effectively.

Anonymous Sharrukin January 08, 2017 1:40 PM  

The Alt-White is and will remain marginalized with only moderate growth as things get worse.

The current culture is far from what they believe and people will only change in the face of undeniable reality. That social-ideological change will be the shortest leap possible with the least mental effort required.

That means civic nationalism and the Alt-West become more popular as things deteriorate.

The Alt-White will only become a force to be reckoned with when violence erupts and civil turmoil are the leading stories. The most radical and belligerent tend to emerge to prominence in such times which we saw for example in 1917 Russia, Weimar Germany, and revolutionary France.

In Europe I suspect that much of what the Alt-White supports will be coupled with straight up nationalism.

What the end result of all that will be is more than I can predict.

For the time being the belligerence and radical nature of the Alt-White will relegate it to the margins because it is too out of line with the current primary culture.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 08, 2017 1:45 PM  

Not that it's terribly important, but to clarify, The Occidental Observer is Kevin MacDonald's site. http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/mission/

Hunter Wallace (pen name) is at Occidental Dissent, a notably Southern Nationalist site.

Anonymous IAMtheShrike January 08, 2017 1:46 PM  

I follow several the Alt-White voices, and this is why I have to agree with Vox:
My political journey from Fall 2015 - Present day is as follows:

+Instapundit, Althouse, etc --> Milo, Scott Adams --> Mike Cernovich, et al --> Vox Day, Richard Spencer.

The Alt-Light is important to bring others to the cause, and even if many of these individuals don't agree with every single Alt-White position they have real skills and abilities to help take down the enemy. It baffles me how many Alt-Whiters won't acknowledge this. It's almost as if they're comfortable with being a schoolyard clique that has a moderate amount of recognition with small numbers.

They often try to avoid what they call a, "purity spiral" in regards to what parts of Europe various members are from (they don't really like Italians it seems because they are slightly tan), but have an insane rigidness in terms of their ideological purity.

Even if I agree with a lot of their points - making oven jokes is just distasteful and not going to allow the movement to gain a lot of mainstreamers and current normies. Also, many of them are vehemently anti-Christian which turns me off, and makes me believe God will never truly bless their movement.

Anonymous casey January 08, 2017 1:47 PM  

Trump's victory demonstrates that the current primary culture is much different than what is being reported.

Blogger ZhukovG January 08, 2017 1:52 PM  

If Alt-White is marginalized, it will be because they did it to themselves. Both Alt-Lite and Alt-White are based on individually variable degrees of nostalgic wishful thinking.

Alt-West is the future because it has a philosophy based on observable reality and arrives at logical conclusions based on those observations.

I believe Alt-Lite will eventually transition to Alt-West because it will become the obvious road to take. Unfortunately, I have no confidence of Alt-White doing the same. Thus they doom themselves to obscurity.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 1:53 PM  

That means civic nationalism and the Alt-West become more popular as things deteriorate.

@46 Sharrukin
I expect more subtle trends, actually. Civic nationalism will be abandoned most quickly by those whites living in areas with a lot of blacks and/or Muslims.

But beyond that, there will be a divergence. The Alt-West will appeal most strongly in areas with a lot of Muslims, but as the Alt-West, from what I've been able to tell, is silent about blacks who are nominally Christian, the Alt-White will take off there instead of the Alt-West.

This in fact might explain why the Alt-White seems strongest in the United States, but not nearly so much in Europe, except maybe Britain.

Anonymous LastWhiteCabbie January 08, 2017 1:53 PM  

I think things can and will turn on a dime. War, infrastructure collapse, disease...and things will be, as William Pierce noted decades ago, MUCH WORSE in the border areas that have 80/20 or even 85/15 whites vs. blacks/brown latinos, etc.

The face of Alt-White will effectively be, until then, whomever runs for president and actively seeks the majority white vote, per Steve Sailor--which includes White Hispanics, Persians and various Arab groups that have similar interests to that which they consider "American Nationalism" which is to whites synonymous with founding principles.

Blogger Danby January 08, 2017 1:56 PM  

VD wrote:The core problem is that all you guys are looking for a leader.
The Führerprinzip in an integral part of the Nazi/Fascist worldview. A Fascist without a leader is not a Fascist.

VFM #6306 wrote:protected...from (((whites))) like (((Cernovich))) and (((Milo))).
Fixed your spelling there.

Blogger Lovekraft January 08, 2017 2:09 PM  

I don't see the alt-white whining or filling up airtime with claims of 'we're the best'. It's the alt-light that is most in danger of being co-opted because they are spreading themselves too thin.

If the alt-lite was serious, it would first realize their approach is a luxury and would adopt a role related to their position: reform, primarily.

The alt-white is the necessary arm that will hold the gun. Get rid of it and the intellectuals will, again, drive everything into the ground.

Synthesis, people.

Blogger S1AL January 08, 2017 2:09 PM  

"Jealousy is not the motive here. The alt-white is genuinely worried about being co-opted and gelded."

A bunch of guys who don't reproduce and have no appeal to 99% of the country are worried about being co-opted and gelded? Either they're not insane than I credited, or there's more to it.

Their word choice absolutely reeks of jealously, though. As do the choices in article subjects.

Blogger S1AL January 08, 2017 2:09 PM  

*more insane

Blogger weka January 08, 2017 2:10 PM  

OT: Islam uses the Truck of Peace again. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4099046/Truck-attacker-shot-dead-killing-three-wounding-15-pedestrians-Jerusalem.html

Anonymous Sharrukin January 08, 2017 2:10 PM  

@46 Sharrukin

I expect more subtle trends, actually. Civic nationalism will be abandoned most quickly by those whites living in areas with a lot of blacks and/or Muslims.

Civic nationalism has no long term future, but will be a bridge towards the political movements that are coming.

We live in a socialized culture and most people are comfortable with that outlook. Unfortunately I think that means that some form of Fascism, or Marxism will be the most comfortable to a large number of people.

That will allow them to change the least and such movements have demonstrated their ability to exclude entire groups of people when it becomes necessary or desired. The Han Chinese for example with Chinese Communism.

The white liberals of New England, European Socialist and Social Democrats and Antifa could easily turn on their black and tan pet immigrants if the conditions were right.

I certainly hope the Alt-Right emerges as a contender but I fear that people will choose the path of least resistance that requires the smallest mental effort on their part.

This is why Marxism could so easily become Nazis in pre-war Germany.

Blogger Mighty Lou January 08, 2017 2:10 PM  

Kind of Off topic, but having a bit to do with Alt-Lite celebrity.

Kid Rock is a pretty big name music act, and he doesn't keep his support of Trump a secret, yet he's not been asked or offered to perform at the innaguaration?

Blogger pyrrhus January 08, 2017 2:11 PM  

@48 Yes, this is a transitional phase. Civic nationalists like Trump are important for breaking away from the suicidal Globalist rule in the West. As events proceed, and most likely deteriorate in most of the world, there will be rapid movement toward straight, at least semi-ethnic nationalism, as happened during the 1930s and during the period of independence from colonialism for African nations, in which ethnic minorities were persecuted and expelled in many nations.

Blogger Montrose January 08, 2017 2:16 PM  

The alt-lite (civic nationalists) are considered piñatas, you hit them a few times and supporters fall out and join you.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 2:24 PM  

@58 Sharrukin

I don't see Marxism appealing to any large group of whites ever again in the future, especially since Marxists have made feminism and anti-white anti-racism essential parts of their core beliefs for so long and expecting Marxists to abandon those core beliefs would be like expecting Christians to start denying the Trinity. They won't; they'll double down, as usual. Heck, they've already been adding tolerance of homosexuality and transgenderism.

In the case of the coming nationalism, if you want to get it to correspond to any of the major fascist dictatorships, I suspect Franco's Spain is more along the lines of what we'll see.

Not Nazi Germany. National Socialism had too many differences from what appeals to present-day nationalists, except at a very superficial level. The only reason they're still talked about at all is because "neo-Nazi" has been the epithet of choice used by SJWs on nationalists for decades, and the Alt-White has recently been trolling them back with Nazi imagery. But again, it's all superficial.

Anonymous STV (Stop Truck Violence) January 08, 2017 2:29 PM  

@57 OT: Islam uses the Truck of Peace again.

When will the needless truck violence be stopped? Ban assault trucks now.

Blogger Lovekraft January 08, 2017 2:31 PM  

How about some regular polling to get a more accurate picture of our views?


And to the guy wanting Kid Rock at the inauguration, tell me you're kidding.

Hiphop/rap is near the top of any alt-right list of things to eliminate, IMO.

Anonymous User January 08, 2017 2:31 PM  

I think the alt-light is going to end up being basically white anyhow, with the occasional war bride and so on as the exceptions. As peoples all non-whites share the same political goal: feed off the living carcass of America while we pay them to do it. Sooner or later that will drive out the xenophiles so focus on reaching out to all of white America in splashy ways.

Imagine the espoused premises of the "alt-white" hold and then they'll get the results they want. Getting anti-miscegenation propaganda past the censors would be a better use of their time and effort than fighting cognitive dissonance.

I wonder if Vox is being intentionally unpersuasive while he gives correct strategic advice. Fits with cruelty artist.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 08, 2017 2:35 PM  

The jealousy is palpable. That's what happens when neo-socialists talk about successful people.

I think you got that one dead right, S1AL. Not that all Alt-Whites are like that, but the ones stirring up trouble within the Alt-Right are.

Regarding the Alt-Light, I think of them as people who see reality, but don't yet accept it. They see the problems that inevitably come from multi-culturalism, globalism, and Leftist progressivism, but they don't want to abandon the civic nationalist values they've held all their lives. They're trying to reconcile this inconsistency.

Some will abandon their civic nationalism and join the Alt-West and some will just hunker down and hope someone else will solve it for them.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 2:36 PM  

(Part 1)

My take:

The Alt-West punched right and got what they deserved. None of this would have happened if the Alt-West shut their mouth when HeilGate happened (no one cared except you guys and clickbait Leftists), or when that whiny Yid journalist complained about Baked Alaska & Cernovich went ballistic about how this makes him look.

The incoherence is coming from the Alt-West just as much as the Alt-White. You know and we know that Jews are a very big problem when it comes to the West. They violate Point 10 of the 16 points and see themselves as a ruling class rather than a minority member of society that has to play by the rules.

The Alt-West seems to be okay with Jews and over-representation of Jews when you guys punch to the right. It sends a message of "whoa hold on goy that's racist" when you claim that you're against foreign ethnic groups dominating a native ethnic group. After everything they've been doing, it should be obvious to the Alt-West that Jews have to be treated neutrally at best.

Furthermore, Point 12 is violated when you kick people out of public events for PR purposes. If the Alt-West doesn't care what anyone thinks of it, why do you care if people mock a group that you are eventually going to depose as a power group anyway? It seems like you really do care what people think about the Alt Right, but especially Jews.

I can see the strategy of holding off on the Jew stuff until later, but look at how pathetic so many Jews are acting. The Laci Greens, Lena Dunhams, Ben Shapiros, etc. Mocking them is driving them insane, and case by case they do the "fellow White people... wait, hold up I'm JEWISH" routine. That makes them look so damn stupid. The Tanya Gersh situation backfired on them. Badly. Not even JDL will defend that. Promote that situation, not how much Cernovich is so cool for demanding 10k for a debate.

This infighting is stupid - Jews have to be laughing their ass off at their political and cultural opponents kicking each other out of events because they make fun of, mock, and, most importantly, DO NOT PHYSICALLY HURT Jews or commit any crimes against them. Jews do not support the Alt-Right. They see every single one us as Anudda Shoah if we are allowed to continue growing. They and their anti-White allies love this shit.

Furthermore, Point 3, that the Alt Right is about offense, is no more embodied by anyone in the Alt Right than the Alt-White. There is always a battle going on. Every day. If you don't want drama, back off, apologize, and get out of our way. We're naming the Jew, fighting Islam, SJWs, and fighting our mutual enemies. You guys are bringing people in, we're crashing the enemy's parties and terrifying them every time they log into Twitter and Facebook. Good Cop, Bad Cop. Stop fucking it up.

Furthermore, you can't claim to support Point 5, demanding homogeneity in a society, and undermine the means to achieve homogeneity by promoting degeneracy, homosexuality, and behaviors that inhibit traditional lifestyles. Milo might be a talented circus clown, but nothing that guy does promotes the nuclear family. Mike Cernovich openly antagonizes the idea of marrying and having children into a homogeneous race. So does Gavin McInnes. If you support a homogeneous society the rhetoric needs to change - "I'm a degenerate. I admit it. I'm a race mixer. Don't be like me. You don't want to live in Brazil, live in America!" The Alt-White is the destination - you guys are the placeholder.

This is not a situation where Alt-White is the only group "messing up." Don't punch right. Stop doing things that make you look like you're sucking Jewish cock. Account for how you guys are not up to standard in your own principles and point to us as the foundation for the future homogeneous society that you claim to support for all nations.

In America, there are Americans. In Italy, there are Italians. That type of thing.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 2:36 PM  

(Part 2)

That's the goal. If that isn't the goal or you have a problem with that, then you need to go back to the drawing board and ask if that's really what you want from all this or you just want a slightly less disastrous demographic percentage than we have right now.

Now with all that said, there are some things that have to be accounted for that we fuck up in the Alt-White.

1) Anyone who isn't German has no business pretending that they're a Nazi in any unironic way. Nazism is German. It was always German and by definition it has no compatibility with other ethnicities. Everyone else are Untermensch in Nazism, even other Europeans.

2) We need to focus on our aesthetics and crank up the Chad appeal. Maybe not use profiles of Pepe alone, but of well dressed, strong, dominant men. What we do demands anonymity, so we have to look more appealing than Saturday morning cartoons if we want to be taken seriously. At least until we can do this openly without anonymous avatars. I love Pepe, Kek, etc. and it's fun, but that's the rebellion - now we have to dominate.

3) We need to focus more efforts on authentic, real Christianity and demanding more out of Christians than Pope Cuckcis and the Protestant Zionists. Shove Ephesians 6:10-17 down the throats of these flaccid losers. Put on the Armor of God, Satan is laughing his ass off at you Jew slave, Leftist subverted morons.

Anyway, this should be an interesting read and hopefully leads to a return to the Good Cop, Bad Cop dynamic that we can use to crush our enemies and restore the West to glory.

Blogger RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow January 08, 2017 2:38 PM  

Vox Day has no idea what he's talking about, Alt Light is co-option of the real Alt Right

The Alt Light is funded by the jews

Vox Day like most christians will always betray nationalists & any movement they insert themselves in

They screwed over the manosphere by always whining about demonising women, & male sexuality, which scares the crap out of christians

Christians are just as bad as the SJW's & jews, christianity is a traitorous religion precisely because its a mainstream religion controlled by the elites

If man is to win it has to put nationalism first & its white race first

People who follow religions are traitorous scum, put the people first, religious second or be destroyed by the nationalists

Alt light is a dead duck

Mike Cernovich is an outed jewish controlled shill

Anonymous BBGKB January 08, 2017 2:40 PM  

Cerdic, after listening to hundreds of hours of Stefan, I would be pretty certain that he is one of us, to the core.

I am pretty sure he doesn't think evolution stopped at the neck either.

If Alt-White is marginalized, it will be because they did it to themselves.

Most people have to overcome anti-white brainwashing with their own eyes. Thus having something that is just like alt-white without explicitly addressing racial reality can bring people to the doorstep when looking at WhiteGirlBleedaLOT can let them cross over. Otherwise it will take another food stamp failure to be witnessed in person.

OT: Islam uses the Truck of Peace again. Time to ban high capacity trucks

I think the alt-light is going to end up being basically white anyhow, with the occasional war bride and so on as the exceptions.

Exactly only productive people that would fit into the west support it. I am willing to give up the California right to legally purchased sex in graveyards with underage wetbacks for the possibility that pizza delivery will be available 20 years from now.

OT: Schumer says "Oy vey if you don't act on our lies we will do 6 underhanded things", actually that was a translation of:

The new leader of Democrats in the Senate says Donald Trump is being “really dumb” for picking a fight with intelligence officials…“Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” said Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer…

Anonymous Sharrukin January 08, 2017 2:45 PM  

@58 Sharrukin

I don't see Marxism appealing to any large group of whites ever again in the future, especially since Marxists have made feminism and anti-white anti-racism essential parts of their core beliefs for so long and expecting Marxists to abandon those core beliefs would be like expecting Christians to start denying the Trinity. They won't; they'll double down, as usual.

Socialists and Democrats of various stripes have no real core beliefs and anti-white ideology could be tossed overboard rather easily. They are after all already wedded to identity politics and if any ethnic minority walks away from their ideology you will see just how easily they embrace racism.

Do you recall how easily they embraced "the Russians are coming to get you"? They will prattle on about McCarthyism and the 'Red Scare' one day and a few months later talk about UnAmerican activities, Russian stooges, and the Great Russian Menace the next.

These are just tools that they use to advance their quest for power. They are the same folks who founded the KKK and were fine with segregation. Then they weren't.

You see them as more committed to ideology than they truly are.

Not Nazi Germany. National Socialism had too many differences from what appeals to present-day nationalists, except at a very superficial level. The only reason they're still talked about at all is because "neo-Nazi" has been the epithet of choice used by SJWs on nationalists for decades,

They won't call themselves Nazis of course just as Antifa doesn't. They claim to be anti-Fascist in fact. That doesn't change the essential nature of what they believe or support. The NSDAP is not that far away from what many socialist movements support in Europe as do the Democrats in the US. The racial angle isn't that much of a change.

Anonymous User January 08, 2017 2:45 PM  

RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow wrote:Vox Day has no idea what he's talking about, Alt Light is co-option of the real Alt Right

The Alt Light is funded by the jews

Vox Day like most christians will always betray nationalists & any movement they insert themselves in

They screwed over the manosphere by always whining about demonising women, & male sexuality, which scares the crap out of christians

Christians are just as bad as the SJW's & jews, christianity is a traitorous religion precisely because its a mainstream religion controlled by the elites

If man is to win it has to put nationalism first & its white race first

People who follow religions are traitorous scum, put the people first, religious second or be destroyed by the nationalists

Alt light is a dead duck

Mike Cernovich is an outed jewish controlled shill



Low quality effort.

Blogger S1AL January 08, 2017 2:48 PM  

Writes six paragraphs about Jews.

Wonders why people don't take it seriously.

*sigh*

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey January 08, 2017 2:50 PM  

Hunter nails it.

Not a second after we killed and buried the body of mainstream conservatism, than a new group of cucks (Alt-Lite / Alt-West) emerges to take its place.

Gammas gotta find a home, I guess.

Blogger Lovekraft January 08, 2017 2:51 PM  

I don't expect the laborer to unravel parasitic trade agreements and I don't expect the Ivy Leaguer to keep the yobs in line.

When they step over or are unaware of these lines is when turf-wars start.

What is most important is how to strive together to achieve a nation-state that works.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey January 08, 2017 2:54 PM  

The Alt-Lite are largely a group of opportuniststic self-promoters. Speaking of which, have you noticed that Cernovich is sounding increasingly unhinged lately? Maybe he's been drinking too much of his wife's breast milk. Or maybe the nootropics he's trying to sell aren't working. What a nutjob.

Welcome to the Alt-Lite!

Blogger Lovekraft January 08, 2017 2:57 PM  

The alt-white is starting at an extreme, with the alt-right being sort of a middle compromise, the alt-lite being the most palatable.

Sort of like bartering, you make an extreme demand while being content with what you end up getting by negotiating.

Blogger Dave January 08, 2017 2:58 PM  

User wrote:
RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow wrote:Vox Day has no idea what he's talking about, Vox Day like most christians will always betray nationalists...Mike Cernovich is an outed jewish controlled shill

Low quality effort.



Not the first time and probably not the last.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey January 08, 2017 3:03 PM  

I have to laugh at the little cucks issuing debate challenges. Here's a better idea. Why don't we organize one-on-one boxing or fighting matches?

Anonymous Roundtine January 08, 2017 3:06 PM  

In practical terms, alt-white thinks the rest of the alt-right should not punch right. Some on the Alt-West believe Nazi salutes limit popularity, and thus are self-defeating for a populist movement. There are probably some people weaseling on both sides. Some Alt-West complain about tactics, but really have some deeper complaints. Some on the Alt-White use every little dispute as an opportunity to ferret out everyone who isn't a True Believer.

Also, the NYTimes is more popular than various far-left groups. Go on a far-left site and listen to them rant about the corporate, right-wing media because it is to the right of them. If the far-left actually gets out in front, with something like BLM or street riots, or their Trump protests, or their emails leak, or the retarded drink tax in Philly, the result is the left becomes less popular. Extremism is never popular, otherwise it wouldn't be extreme. The far-left pulls the Overton Window left and it gets filtered through the NYTimes. It's almost always going to be the case that the most popular people with the widest audience aren't extreme enough for the vanguard.

Blogger SirAdam January 08, 2017 3:07 PM  

Gay

Blogger Katechon January 08, 2017 3:07 PM  

What's the main point of divergence between the Alt-Right and the Alt-White ?

If the Alt-Right views nationalism as a racialist project, then I fail to understand what distinguishes it from the Alt-White.

Blogger Laguna Beach Fogey January 08, 2017 3:09 PM  

The DeploraBalls party is an event just begging to be crashed.

I hope some of our Alt-Right people are planning something.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 3:10 PM  

Roundtine wrote:In practical terms, alt-white thinks the rest of the alt-right should not punch right. Some on the Alt-West believe Nazi salutes limit popularity, and thus are self-defeating for a populist movement. There are probably some people weaseling on both sides. Some Alt-West complain about tactics, but really have some deeper complaints. Some on the Alt-White use every little dispute as an opportunity to ferret out everyone who isn't a True Believer.

Also, the NYTimes is more popular than various far-left groups. Go on a far-left site and listen to them rant about the corporate, right-wing media because it is to the right of them. If the far-left actually gets out in front, with something like BLM or street riots, or their Trump protests, or their emails leak, or the retarded drink tax in Philly, the result is the left becomes less popular. Extremism is never popular, otherwise it wouldn't be extreme. The far-left pulls the Overton Window left and it gets filtered through the NYTimes. It's almost always going to be the case that the most popular people with the widest audience aren't extreme enough for the vanguard.


That's why it's Good Cop, Bad Cop. The Alt West needs to be the tamer, nicer, bake the cookies group, while we scare the shit out of the enemy and impale their fallen on giant wooden spires.

Blogger 1337kestrel January 08, 2017 3:12 PM  

I finally understand the tension between "ideologues" and "pragmatists."

The USA is a civic organization. For a wide variety of marketing and structural reasons, we can't strip 3rd generation hispanics of their citizenship and start chucking them over the border next month. For moral reasons we can't round up blacks and put them on boats to Africa. Teddy Roosevelt was right to despair on that point. So someone with common sense isn't going to promote those policies as legislation.

But the moment you propose a bill that only deports illegal immigrants, and doesn't allocate funds for gas chambers, the Alt-White starts attacking you for being a Jewish shill.

Neither most pragmatists nor most ideologues can hold two contrary layers of thought simultaneously, and promote policies that vary somewhat from their ideological underpinnings.

Blogger SirAdam January 08, 2017 3:15 PM  

Agree similar trajectory but staring with Rush Limbaugh!
Also what the Alt white doesn't understand is many of us who despise current SJW culture, despise those who Show such disregard to other people.
Do we think all peoples should have their own safe nation, yes. All people. Do we want to destroy those who have their own nation? No, in fact I'd rather fight with them against the attackers.

Blogger SirAdam January 08, 2017 3:17 PM  

Gay

Blogger Cail Corishev January 08, 2017 3:17 PM  

I've never much understood why they need to attack those people consistently.

Imagine that you play for a small-time semi-pro football team. Your team has always been last in the standings and the butt of jokes around the league. No one wants to play for you, but despite (or because of) all that, you've stuck together as a team and played hard through loss after loss.

Finally, one season you seem to be making some progress. More fans are showing up for games; and for the first time ever, the final game of the season is a meaningful one, to determine whether you make the playoffs. Your hard work and all the years of abuse are finally about to pay off!

The week before the game, the coach announces that the owners have signed two recently retired NFL stars, a QB and a RB. They go out and pretty much single-handedly win the game. Suddenly the jokes have stopped, and people are cheering for your team and saying you might have a chance at the championship.

Are you thrilled? Or are you pissed? How do the former starting QB and RB feel, riding the bench? Will the new guys bring in more of their ex-pro friends next year, pushing you and all of your teammates out? Will they get bored with the whole thing and leave as quickly as they came, leaving the team in disarray and unprepared? Will they monopolize all the cheerleaders?

Note: I'm not saying they're right; I'm saying I think that's how they see it.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 3:18 PM  

If the Alt-Right views nationalism as a racialist project, then I fail to understand what distinguishes it from the Alt-White.

The Alt-West believes in nationalism for everyone and peaceful coexistence between the racially segregated nations. The Alt-White believes in one big white nationalist empire that will magically rule the world because pure.

Blogger Mighty Lou January 08, 2017 3:20 PM  

@Lovekraft,

Not kidding, just really out of the loop where pop music is concerned.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 3:22 PM  

For a wide variety of marketing and structural reasons, we can't strip 3rd generation hispanics of their citizenship and start chucking them over the border next month. For moral reasons we can't round up blacks and put them on boats to Africa.

Considering that the probable alternative is mass slaughter of large numbers of people on all sides, we'd better find a way to revisit those options.

What is more moral, killing 12 million [fill-in-the-blank] or deporting 40 million of them? Because, like it or not, believe it or not, that is the choice the USA will soon be facing.

Blogger Katechon January 08, 2017 3:27 PM  

Thank you.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 3:29 PM  

STV (Stop Truck Violence) wrote:@57 OT: Islam uses the Truck of Peace again.

When will the needless truck violence be stopped? Ban assault trucks now.


No one needs these high-capacity gas tanks.

Anonymous trogs January 08, 2017 3:30 PM  

The Alt-West believes in nationalism for everyone and peaceful coexistence between the racially segregated nations. The Alt-White believes in one big white nationalist empire that will magically rule the world because pure.

Can you find a single quote from a major Alt-Right figure that is even reminiscent of this? I doubt you can, I know all of the major ones. Sounds a bit like a strawman.

Even the "pan-European" unity types like Richard Spencer are neither purist, nor properly imperialist. They're all Putin-friendly, anti-Iraq isolationists, who seem at most to vaguely want to salvage parts of the EU.

No need to dig unnecessary ditches, Vox.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 3:31 PM  

VD wrote:If the Alt-Right views nationalism as a racialist project, then I fail to understand what distinguishes it from the Alt-White.

The Alt-West believes in nationalism for everyone and peaceful coexistence between the racially segregated nations. The Alt-White believes in one big white nationalist empire that will magically rule the world because pure.


Racially segregated is funny because you guys work with or for Jews as fanatically as the cuckservatives do. That's a mischaracterization of White interests, but you knew that.

Bake the cookies, welcome the new arrivals, entertain them, point them our way, and stop pretending we're Nazis.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 3:33 PM  

Here we go. Perfect examples.

Manifest Destiny = alt-White non-Gamma (most likely Delta). Attempts to lay out a coherent strategy (Good Cop Bad Cop, in this case) and team up with the alt-West/alt-Lite, and states why he's alt-White rather than alt-Lite.

RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow = alt-White Gamma. Blindly attacks Christianity as if it's Churchianity and won't consider looking for allies. His way or the highway.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 3:34 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:I've never much understood why they need to attack those people consistently.

Imagine that you play for a small-time semi-pro football team. Your team has always been last in the standings and the butt of jokes around the league. No one wants to play for you, but despite (or because of) all that, you've stuck together as a team and played hard through loss after loss.

Finally, one season you seem to be making some progress. More fans are showing up for games; and for the first time ever, the final game of the season is a meaningful one, to determine whether you make the playoffs. Your hard work and all the years of abuse are finally about to pay off!


Go Lions! This is our year!

The week before the game, the coach announces that the owners have signed two recently retired NFL stars, a QB and a RB. They go out and pretty much single-handedly win the game. Suddenly the jokes have stopped, and people are cheering for your team and saying you might have a chance at the championship.

Are you thrilled? Or are you pissed? How do the former starting QB and RB feel, riding the bench? Will the new guys bring in more of their ex-pro friends next year, pushing you and all of your teammates out? Will they get bored with the whole thing and leave as quickly as they came, leaving the team in disarray and unprepared? Will they monopolize all the cheerleaders?

Note: I'm not saying they're right; I'm saying I think that's how they see it.


You're projecting your neurotypical personality on the alt-white.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 3:37 PM  

Whenever this alt-white/alt-west shit hits the fan, it's always started by either the alt-white or Mike Cernovich.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 3:42 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:Here we go. Perfect examples.

Manifest Destiny = alt-White non-Gamma (most likely Delta). Attempts to lay out a coherent strategy (Good Cop Bad Cop, in this case) and team up with the alt-West/alt-Lite, and states why he's alt-White rather than alt-Lite.

RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow = alt-White Gamma. Blindly attacks Christianity as if it's Churchianity and won't consider looking for allies. His way or the highway.


You can't pretend that the mob is beneath you. They're useful when you direct them at the enemy. It isn't just about the brilliant counter-punch against an argument, it's also about surrounding the enemy with enough angry voices to feel like they're hopelessly outnumbered.

"Midwits" understand this. The Alt-White is probably "Midwit" at best right now, but pretending that is somehow a failure is just like when PHretarDs underestimated Trump and lost spectacularly and ignores the genius of Scott Adams.

I get the sense that you guys in the Alt West are starting to drink your own kool-aid now that you're tasting success and fame.

Do not forget how quickly that can be taken away from you and how loudly your enemies will laugh at you if that happens. We're your allies - you're going to have to get over how intense we get and how you'll have to clean up some messes every now and then.

Either that or we all fail.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros January 08, 2017 3:42 PM  

@Manifest Destiny
One of your errors is that you fail to distinguish between Alt-West and Alt-Lite. Vox is Alt-West. Cernovich and Milo are Alt-Lite because they are not Alt-Right.

You also err in assuming that the criticism of Baked Alaska was because he named the Jew. Although this may be true for some on the Alt-Lite, the criticism from this blog was more a matter of strategy; working for a public-facing event that has already been kicked out of one venue and can reasonably be expected to be under intense scrutiny by the enemy is a bad time to look like you're about to go full Jared Wyand.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 3:45 PM  

Katechon wrote:What's the main point of divergence between the Alt-Right and the Alt-White ?

If the Alt-Right views nationalism as a racialist project, then I fail to understand what distinguishes it from the Alt-White.


In Vox's terms, Alt-White is a subset of Alt-Right that doesn't believe Christianity is a necessary component of Western Civilization. In fact, many of them are low church pagans who despise Christianity. Having thrown out Christianity, most of them become socialists because it's the only viable alternative (for reasons I won't get into), and because of the appeal of esoteric Hitlerism to people who like secret knowledge.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 3:46 PM  

The Alt-West believes in nationalism for everyone and peaceful coexistence between the racially segregated nations. The Alt-White believes in one big white nationalist empire that will magically rule the world because pure.

@85 VD
I wasn't aware of those definitions. I'm a white American nationalist, but according to this definition, I'm alt-West. The alt-White would be the actual hardcore Gamma white supremacists who consider themselves neo-Nazis.

Whenever this alt-white/alt-west shit hits the fan, it's always started by either the alt-white or Mike Cernovich.

@94 Aeoli Pera
Doubt it. Gammas fling a lot of poop but are ultimately ineffective at best, without institutional backing.

Blogger Old Odd Jobs January 08, 2017 3:48 PM  

Americans are so weird. Agonised debates over whether or not Ireland belongs to the Irish people or to whichever illiterate Somalians the E.U decide to import. Careful! You wouldn't want to be seen as Alt Right now, would you? Jesus.

Anonymous TLM January 08, 2017 3:48 PM  

...This is why the Alt-West is the future of the Alt-Right and not the Alt-White......

You may be kicking against the bricks on this one. Every incident like the FB Live whitey torture session, and yet another sh*t-skin Muslim chimp out at the airport this week alone, is driving and/or making people who otherwise want nothing to do with the perceived goofy skin heads of the 90's 'white power" movement much more palatable. It 's hard to have your ear to the ground an ocean away. White America is waking up to the fact that we have been, and are under assault. They won't care what it's being called (alt-white, alt-west)doesn't matter, they're just sick of being victims.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 3:50 PM  

Manifest Destiny wrote:That's why it's Good Cop, Bad Cop. The Alt West needs to be the tamer, nicer, bake the cookies group, while we scare the shit out of the enemy and impale their fallen on giant wooden spires.

This is already the case, except insofar as infighting renders us all useless for days at a time.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 3:52 PM  

Fractiousness is an inherent property of political right-ness so there's really no avoiding this stuff on the larger scale.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 3:53 PM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Manifest Destiny wrote:That's why it's Good Cop, Bad Cop. The Alt West needs to be the tamer, nicer, bake the cookies group, while we scare the shit out of the enemy and impale their fallen on giant wooden spires.

This is already the case, except insofar as infighting renders us all useless for days at a time.


All I'm saying is the side more sympathetic to the people kicking allies out of events because of the JQ needs to look in the mirror a bit longer than they have.

I have admitted some of our shortcomings. I don't see that coming from the Alt-West or Alt-Lite. At all. Self-criticism is something you guys need right now, especially after you've tasted fame and success.

Anonymous trogs January 08, 2017 3:58 PM  

You also err in assuming that the criticism of Baked Alaska was because he named the Jew. Although this may be true for some on the Alt-Lite, the criticism from this blog was more a matter of strategy; working for a public-facing event that has already been kicked out of one venue and can reasonably be expected to be under intense scrutiny by the enemy is a bad time to look like you're about to go full Jared Wyand.

I think most of us got that part. And it's true, Baked Alaska was acting badly, he himself has copped to as much during his Fash The Nation interview.

But any time I say something that risks being perceived as counter-signaling discussion of Jewish behaviour, I'll make damn sure to continuously add a sentence or two like "don't misunderstand me, I do think that Jewish anti-gentile behaviour / subversion of our countries needs to be discussed, and cowardice of discussing it is reprehensible. Just not here.".

In Vox's terms, Alt-White is a subset of Alt-Right that doesn't believe Christianity is a necessary component of Western Civilization. What? Come on, he doesn't believe that, don't strawman him. Bulbasaur of TDS is the biggest Christcuck on the planet.

Blogger tuberman January 08, 2017 3:59 PM  

#66 Jack,
All I can say is the movement toward the Right has been happening and is escalating. I follow sites like CTH, and the people that post their have grown more aware than they were a year and a half ago. The new people get up to speed fast. Some even seem to have Alt-West understanding. The point is, the worthwhile understanding comes in stages, and the stages are moving somewhat Right there.

The problem with many, but not all, White Nationalists is they never rethink things in logical thought-out ways. Ha! Something they share with the Left. Eric Hoffer said in "The True Believer" that the most fanatical Nazis can be turned into the most extreme Marxists and vice versa. That's why when this thing breaks, it will be former Bernie supporters in front burning the Globalist witches.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 4:01 PM  

Ezekiel Cassandros wrote:@Manifest Destiny

One of your errors is that you fail to distinguish between Alt-West and Alt-Lite. Vox is Alt-West. Cernovich and Milo are Alt-Lite because they are not Alt-Right.

You also err in assuming that the criticism of Baked Alaska was because he named the Jew. Although this may be true for some on the Alt-Lite, the criticism from this blog was more a matter of strategy; working for a public-facing event that has already been kicked out of one venue and can reasonably be expected to be under intense scrutiny by the enemy is a bad time to look like you're about to go full Jared Wyand.


The only way I can accept the public siding with the Alt-Lite over the eventual destination of everything we're doing, homogeneous society advocacy, is if there was some hint of a private "Dude stop fucking this up" conversation happening behind the scenes. I see no indication of that whatsoever, it looks more like ganging up on the vanguard than anything strategic.

Well, what's the strategy behind having the event at a heavily Jewish biased institution and venue? This drama came from a divide over Jews. If this was handled strategically, Cernovich could have gone reality TV and pretended it was a breakup, still had the "disinvited" show up, then publicly humiliate the group which is going to be deposed in the future anyway. Instead he threw everyone who criticizes Jews under the bus and tried his best to destroy their reputations.

That's not strategy - that's the SJW Mindset

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 4:02 PM  

The Alt-White is probably "Midwit" at best right now, but pretending that is somehow a failure is just like when PHretarDs underestimated Trump and lost spectacularly and ignores the genius of Scott Adams.

It's not even midwit. And I not only saw Trump coming as soon as Adams did, I never once thought he would lose, as Adams did after Pussygate.

Bake the cookies, welcome the new arrivals, entertain them, point them our way, and stop pretending we're Nazis.

Stop throwing Nazi salutes, calling yourself Nazis, and lionizing Hitler, and perhaps we'll consider it.

I have admitted some of our shortcomings. I don't see that coming from the Alt-West or Alt-Lite. At all.

The Alt-West has no intrinsic shortcomings as yet, other than some confused or self-serving civic nationalists. It is the pragmatic Alt-Right.

Blogger tz January 08, 2017 4:04 PM  

Hunter Wallace Responds

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 4:08 PM  

What? Come on, he doesn't believe that, don't strawman him. Bulbasaur of TDS is the biggest Christcuck on the planet.

The Alt-White is divided on Christianity. The Alt-West is not. One more reason why the Alt-West will thrive at the expense of the former.

The only way I can accept the public siding with the Alt-Lite over the eventual destination of everything we're doing, homogeneous society advocacy, is if there was some hint of a private "Dude stop fucking this up" conversation happening behind the scenes.

There has been, in both directions. Why do you think the Alt-White and the VFM aren't going after each other? There is absolutely no point. I'd like to see them ignore the Alt-Lite as well, but that doesn't directly concern me.

The tide is moving rightward. Libertarianism is defunct. Conservatism is moribund. So, speak the truth, shoot Left, and grow the fuck up. No one will follow excited newbies dancing for the mainstream media, be they Alt-Lite, Alt-West, or Alt-White.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 4:09 PM  

trogs wrote:In Vox's terms, Alt-White is a subset of Alt-Right that doesn't believe Christianity is a necessary component of Western Civilization. What? Come on, he doesn't believe that, don't strawman him. Bulbasaur of TDS is the biggest Christcuck on the planet.

Don't try to gaslight me, you aren't smart enough. Christianity is, in fact, a point of strong division and you can't change that by denying it.

Anonymous BBGKB January 08, 2017 4:11 PM  

What is more moral, killing 12 million [fill-in-the-blank] or deporting 40 million of them?

After killing the first 6 million the rest will self deport.

unhinged lately? Maybe he's been drinking too much of his wife's breast milk. Or maybe the nootropics

Research shows that if the Elite are drinking the blood of kids they would only get a benefit from those 5yo and under.
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/are-the-aging-elite-feasting-on-young-blood-rockefeller-research-advanced-eternal-quest_01052017#

Racially segregated is funny because you guys work with or for Jews as fanatically as the cuckservatives do

Its Russians over/under the bed not jews.

Whenever this alt-white/alt-west shit hits the fan, it's always started by either the alt-white or Mike Cernovich

And people think faggots bring the drama.

Baked Alaska was because he named the Jew...working for a public-facing event that has already been kicked out of one venue

Don't name the jew if you need a cheap venue. If you need to do an arm signal do the https://infogalactic.com/info/Quenelle_(gesture) awkward no pictures available there.

Anonymous Whitey Whiteman III January 08, 2017 4:12 PM  

"The Alt-White believes in one big white nationalist empire that will magically rule the world because pure."

Jesus, no wonder you consider the Alt-White such a tiny segment that could never be the future of the Alt-Right.

It is your definition, so you can define people out as you please, but this is a small extreme of what I would consider the Alt-White.

Hell, it would be an extreme of "Alt-Reich".

Who actually thinks that?

Under a more reasonable/inclusive definition of Alt-White, the main difference vs. Alt-West would be the primacy of the jewish problem, as the lesser primacy of Christianity.

Blogger tuberman January 08, 2017 4:15 PM  

One other thing, the infighting on the Right is minor compared to the self-destruction going on with the left, not even close.

The prisons are turning radical blacks into full Jihadists Muslims. Ha,Ha,HA! Now that has a well thought out future.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 4:16 PM  

Ezekiel Cassandros wrote:@Manifest Destiny

One of your errors is that you fail to distinguish between Alt-West and Alt-Lite. Vox is Alt-West. Cernovich and Milo are Alt-Lite because they are not Alt-Right.

You also err in assuming that the criticism of Baked Alaska was because he named the Jew. Although this may be true for some on the Alt-Lite, the criticism from this blog was more a matter of strategy; working for a public-facing event that has already been kicked out of one venue and can reasonably be expected to be under intense scrutiny by the enemy is a bad time to look like you're about to go full Jared Wyand.


Low-wits do not embarrass the highest IQ, highest verbal IQ population on the planet multiple times in debate and in response to a blockbust scam that blows up so badly that not even JDL terrorists defend Tanya Gersh. Low-wits do not produce the types of memes that the Alt-Lite copy and paste because they know they're better than anything they produce. Low-wits do not infiltrate a Hillary rally and immortalize Pepe in a speech that already was a manifestation of trolling high-IQ people into doing our work for us.

You're not giving your allies enough credit.

Have you not considered the value of deconstructing one of the most effective social stigmas used to shame Whites into not rallying behind their own? If "you're a Nazi" becomes totally meaningless, then no one has to put up with that anymore. That's one less major obstacle to giving less sturdy Whites permission to embrace their own identity.

Furthermore, the idea that Hitler was a 100% evil man is just as mythological as suggesting that Jews have never been evil. Lionizing elements of the Third Reich that actually worked out well is no different than lionizing elements of the British or the Roman Empire. It happened. Some of it was terrible, some of it was great.

And yet the Alt-West is accurately able to be lumped in with degeneracy, race mixing, and violating multiple tenets of your 16 points by associating strategically with the Alt Lite in drama over the people advocating for the results you also want.

Dunning Kruger can affect everyone. Being self-critical is just as important as never trusting foreign peoples and cultures.

Blogger tz January 08, 2017 4:17 PM  

@87 - Trump has merely postponed things, and there might be a soft landing, but one in any case will result in cutting off all welfare and things like EBT cards - if you don't work you don't eat, not because it isn't nice, but because the 20 trillion in government debt can't be repaid.

Now, if you have millions of people who can't support themselves, and can't be fed, sheltered, etc. the alternatives are to starve here or go back to their national homelands. Refugees.

Europe will be similarly forced - When Germany and Sweden meet austerity can literally can't afford to feed and house refugees?

Karl Denninger continually points out it is not morality but mathematics.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 4:18 PM  

Manifest Destiny wrote:I have admitted some of our shortcomings. I don't see that coming from the Alt-West or Alt-Lite. At all. Self-criticism is something you guys need right now, especially after you've tasted fame and success.

I'll remedy that, briefly.

1. The Alt-West's institutions are heavily infiltrated by child-touching Satanists and Gnostic heretics. A majority of nominal church leaders are either secular or outright anti-Christian liberals.
2. The Alt-West proper is ideologically incoherent because it is only culturally Christian, being more concerned with pragmatic societal group selection effects than true belief.
3. The Alt-West is mostly filled with normies and normies are worthless for any purpose because they will believe whatever makes them the most comfortable in the short term. There are very few extremists or fanatics to actually accomplish anything.
4. The Alt-West is so fat, lazy, and stupid that it still, in thee current year zero of Our God Emperor Trump's ascension to the Cherry Blossom Throne, that it still doesn't have its fucking boots on.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 4:18 PM  

Hunter Wallace Responds

I'll address it tomorrow. But it was not unreasonable. We can certainly agree to disagree on a few things.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 4:25 PM  

Low-wits do not embarrass the highest IQ, highest verbal IQ population on the planet multiple times in debate and in response to a blockbust scam that blows up so badly that not even JDL terrorists defend Tanya Gersh.

From what I've seen, you guys lose more than you win in debates and optics. But I wouldn't describe the Alt-White as low-wits, but normal. Midwit is not average, it is between +.5 SD and +1.5SD.

Have you not considered the value of deconstructing one of the most effective social stigmas used to shame Whites into not rallying behind their own? If "you're a Nazi" becomes totally meaningless, then no one has to put up with that anymore.

I have. It's irrelevant. My tactic for dealing with those crying Holocaust is vastly more successful in action than any of the antics concocted by the Alt-White.

Furthermore, the idea that Hitler was a 100% evil man is just as mythological as suggesting that Jews have never been evil. Lionizing elements of the Third Reich that actually worked out well is no different than lionizing elements of the British or the Roman Empire.

It is vastly different. It is prodigiously stupid. The Third Reich was an utterly epic disaster for Germany. What utter idiot would EVER want that for his own people? Both the Roman and British empires conquered the world and ruled for generations. The Third Reich lasted six years from the time it launched its very first invasion.

You would be hard-pressed to pick a more defeatist model.

Blogger Ransom Smith January 08, 2017 4:33 PM  

For the love of god. Someone please point out that the so called nationalistic elements of Nazism are just stolen from Prussia and Bavaria. Hiter used those elements to drum up support.

Larping as Prussians is 100% more effective and rational (not to mention non idiotic) than larping as Nazis.

Bismark makes more friends than Himmler.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 4:33 PM  

To be clear, the point is irrelevant because it hasn't happened yet nor is it likely to happen any time soon.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 08, 2017 4:41 PM  

For a wide variety of marketing and structural reasons, we can't strip 3rd generation hispanics of their citizenship and start chucking them over the border next month. For moral reasons we can't round up blacks and put them on boats to Africa.

Dude, think about how long the Moors had been living in Spain when Ferdinand and Isabella started their pet project.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 4:51 PM  

VD wrote:Low-wits do not embarrass the highest IQ, highest verbal IQ population on the planet multiple times in debate and in response to a blockbust scam that blows up so badly that not even JDL terrorists defend Tanya Gersh.

From what I've seen, you guys lose more than you win in debates and optics. But I wouldn't describe the Alt-White as low-wits, but normal. Midwit is not average, it is between +.5 SD and +1.5SD.

Have you not considered the value of deconstructing one of the most effective social stigmas used to shame Whites into not rallying behind their own? If "you're a Nazi" becomes totally meaningless, then no one has to put up with that anymore.

I have. It's irrelevant. My tactic for dealing with those crying Holocaust is vastly more successful in action than any of the antics concocted by the Alt-White.

Furthermore, the idea that Hitler was a 100% evil man is just as mythological as suggesting that Jews have never been evil. Lionizing elements of the Third Reich that actually worked out well is no different than lionizing elements of the British or the Roman Empire.

It is vastly different. It is prodigiously stupid. The Third Reich was an utterly epic disaster for Germany. What utter idiot would EVER want that for his own people? Both the Roman and British empires conquered the world and ruled for generations. The Third Reich lasted six years from the time it launched its very first invasion.

You would be hard-pressed to pick a more defeatist model.


1) Richard Spencer humiliating a Rabbi like that is a bigger win than anything I've seen from the Alt Lite or Alt West regarding Jews. The Tanya Gersh situation is a major disaster for Jews claiming the moral high ground.

2) Perhaps, but the more tactics we use to take that shit down the faster we can rally Whites to our cause.

3) I don't want that for America, for reasons I've already stated. I'm not German. I can't be a Nazi. I'm not interested in the concept of Lebensraum. The spirit of conquest is what started this entire bullshit two thousand year fued between Christian Europeans and Jews.

But to deny the impact of the Third Reich is nuts. The US interstate system is the Autobahn 2.0. The US Navy was built after German naval technology, especially submarines. The propaganda tactics they developed are still being used today. Their military tactics were ahead of the curve to such a degree that American generals have copied them. Gen. Mattis would probably be able to give a 2 hour lecture on Third Reich military tactics.

Furthermore, 6 years in the 20th century is not the same as 6 years in the Roman Empire. Going from decade to decade in the 20th and 21st century the world changed dramatically and much faster than in previous eras.

They were an unsuccessful flash in the pan, but that was a hell of a political, social, economic, and cultural explosion.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 4:56 PM  

Manifest, you appear to be under the misapprehension that Jews really do have an average IQ of 115. There is no way that's the case. They get their advantages over Europeans from whining, cheating, (((networking))), verbal bullshitting, and the little fact that the backbone of Churchianity is making the Jew THE supreme sacred cow. Sort of like the blacks, in fact.

Anonymous buybuydandavis January 08, 2017 4:57 PM  

"why is their hallmark the business of trafficking in polarizing racial clickbait on social media?"

SJWs Always Project

The Left has had nothing to sell but polarizing identity politics for decades.

Anonymous Anonymous January 08, 2017 4:59 PM  

Hey Civic Nationalists!

If you want to live in freaky mix blended societies so much you can have it right now. Its called Brazil. Instead of building freaky mix blended societies ONLY in White people's countries, you can move to Brazil right now.

So how about it anti-Whites?

Anonymous PinochetsChopperPilot January 08, 2017 5:00 PM  

Who in the Alt-White movement, of any note, is part of any purity spiral? I think Spencer has the same view I (a mixed White Iberian/Celt) have...if you look white, are considered white by others and are of primarily white heritage, you are white. Whether 1/4 Amerind from S. America, dark Italian or Spaniard, or Slavic, or Persian or White Arab. If your GOALS are to a different tribe (as with many White Arabs) then yes--you aren't welcome, but the fact is, whites everywhere are under assault, including Assad.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 5:02 PM  

And I'm supposed to believe that after everything you just described they don't have at least some intellectual advantage?

If it's not an IQ advantage, then they prepare themselves for these types of conflicts in a way that clearly works for them.

Whether it's inherited or learned is moot - they are a force to contend with and pretending the challenge they pose isn't greater than Blacks comes off as crazy to me.

Blogger Old Ez January 08, 2017 5:02 PM  

@ VD - "The Alt-West believes in nationalism for everyone and peaceful coexistence between the racially segregated nations. The Alt-White believes in one big white nationalist empire that will magically rule the world because pure."

Please at least cite one Alt-Right/Alt-White personality pushing for anything remotely resembling this and "Richard Spencer" is not a valid answer, as 95% of your commentariat will agree. The commenter to whom you're responding hit the nail on the head - there's fundamentally no difference at the end of the day between Alt-West and Alt-white (beyond "branding"/tactics) because the West is "white" for better or worse and whether we like it or not - everyone who is not "West" ensures that "West=White" whether we want to accept it or not. I think you would be willing to admit at least this positivistic formulation.

"Nationalism for everyone and peaceful coexistence between the racially segregated nations" is exactly what 99% of the Alt-Right/Alt-West/Alt-White wants - which is not good news for anyone look to propagate a "brand" on the back of this political and intellectual movement.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 08, 2017 5:07 PM  

Lovekraft wrote:Hiphop/rap is near the top of any alt-right list of things to eliminate, IMO.

Yes, please.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 5:11 PM  

VD wrote:Low-wits do not embarrass the highest IQ, highest verbal IQ population on the planet multiple times in debate and in response to a blockbust scam that blows up so badly that not even JDL terrorists defend Tanya Gersh.

From what I've seen, you guys lose more than you win in debates and optics. But I wouldn't describe the Alt-White as low-wits, but normal. Midwit is not average, it is between +.5 SD and +1.5SD.

Have you not considered the value of deconstructing one of the most effective social stigmas used to shame Whites into not rallying behind their own? If "you're a Nazi" becomes totally meaningless, then no one has to put up with that anymore.

I have. It's irrelevant. My tactic for dealing with those crying Holocaust is vastly more successful in action than any of the antics concocted by the Alt-White.

Furthermore, the idea that Hitler was a 100% evil man is just as mythological as suggesting that Jews have never been evil. Lionizing elements of the Third Reich that actually worked out well is no different than lionizing elements of the British or the Roman Empire.

It is vastly different. It is prodigiously stupid. The Third Reich was an utterly epic disaster for Germany. What utter idiot would EVER want that for his own people? Both the Roman and British empires conquered the world and ruled for generations. The Third Reich lasted six years from the time it launched its very first invasion.

You would be hard-pressed to pick a more defeatist model.


My theory is that VD sees any positive association with Nazi ideology as a sign that the Alt-White would be similar in how we rule.

Never mind the trolling or how many groups are showing up to the armed march in Whitefish from different nations, even Middle Eastern nations.

The Whitefish March already looks like exactly the kind of thing the Alt West wants to do - show a unified but nation respecting front of people who want to live the way they want to and are telling the Jews to fuck off with their dyscivic bullshit.

Blogger Harsh January 08, 2017 5:13 PM  

The alt-whites seems to live by the philosophy that no matter how stupid we think they are, they can always do better.

Anonymous teapartydoc January 08, 2017 5:17 PM  

http://www.dailystormer.com/purity-tests-are-absolute-poison-to-the-alt-right/
I think it goes without saying that this goes in all different directions.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 5:18 PM  

1) Richard Spencer humiliating a Rabbi like that is a bigger win than anything I've seen from the Alt Lite or Alt West regarding Jews. The Tanya Gersh situation is a major disaster for Jews claiming the moral high ground.

That's nice. Two minor encounters with nobodies totally beat the President-elect disavowing the Alt-Right. Do you know why the NYT, the Atlantic, and other outlets don't run my answers to their questions? Because they have no response to them.

2) Perhaps, but the more tactics we use to take that shit down the faster we can rally Whites to our cause.

It's counterproductive. You're not rallying whites to the cause, events are. You're actually turning them away.

I don't want that for America, for reasons I've already stated. I'm not German. I can't be a Nazi. I'm not interested in the concept of Lebensraum.

Then stop LARPing and defending the indefensible. I'm not saying to cower in fear when someone calls you a Nazi. Just don't EVER even mention it. When asked, deny it and point out the absurdity.

That's how to defang the media. Show them to be liars pushing a false narrative.

Anonymous Wyrd January 08, 2017 5:19 PM  

Hunter and his pet whore Denise The Cunt have no explanation besides teh Jewz. So tiresome.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 5:19 PM  

My theory is that VD sees any positive association with Nazi ideology as a sign that the Alt-White would be similar in how we rule.

No, I see it as a sign you'll never get anywhere close to ruling anything. My attitude is about the same as if you started wearing powdered wigs and taking snuff in the name of reviving the Whig Party. It's both stupid and totally irrelevant.

Only it's worse, because it's also counterproductive.

Anonymous buybuydandavis January 08, 2017 5:21 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:Reason Ragazine was the harbinger of the split in libertarian-land.

Reason magazine as an institution is Open Borders Uber Alles, but a good half of their commentariat is openly contemptuous of that position.

Blogger Harsh January 08, 2017 5:24 PM  

VD wrote:My attitude is about the same as if you started wearing powdered wigs and taking snuff in the name of reviving the Whig Party.

Now that made me laugh out loud.

Anonymous Vin January 08, 2017 5:31 PM  

I despise the timidity and opportunism of some in Alt Lite but also the inability of Alt White to stop attacking allies and fellow travelers instead of the real (and numerous) enemies.

They complain about people like Milo only going after 'low hanging fruit' like feminism and Islam. If it's so easy why is it still there? Feminism is as much, if not more, responsible for the low White birth rate than anything and Islam...well, Islam. And he's damn effective at both. In a way, Milo is doing more to raise the near future White birthrate than all of Alt White combined.

All they have to do is keep their mouth shut and focus on issues Alt Lite won't touch. Either they're jealous of the attention and effectiveness or, like you said (kind of) they're just strategic morons.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 5:31 PM  

1) You've even acknowledged that it wasn't really that big of a deal. Trump was being bombarded with it and he was basically like "I 'disavow' now ask a real question."

Every win counts.

2) Is that why Daily Stormer gets more traffic than this site? Or why TRS and FTN are growing every month, along with AmRen, VDare, etc.?

The only people we're turning away are the people who were never going to be open to radical ideas anyway. They'll follow whoever is in power that doesn't hurt them or change their lifestyle too much.

3) I don't LARP as a Nazi lol. I just don't care if anyone else does because I genuinely do not care what anyone thinks of the Alt Right. If someone wants to LARP as Vlad the Impaler and it's funny I don't give a shit.

Humiliating the media goes hand in hand with proving they're liars. Trolling gets them to call us Nazis while having absolutely nothing but tweets and memes to point to. The media gets dumber every day they fall for Nazi LARPing.

Michael Tracey just linked an article by a Leftist think-tank Jew who imagined his middle-aged White plumber as a secret Nazi and wrote about it. This is what we've created - they are making damn fools out of themselves and it's easy to point out now.

Anonymous JAG January 08, 2017 5:32 PM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:STV (Stop Truck Violence) wrote:@57 OT: Islam uses the Truck of Peace again.

When will the needless truck violence be stopped? Ban assault trucks now.


No one needs these high-capacity gas tanks.


They certainly don't need automatic transmission equipped trucks.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 5:44 PM  

Then stop LARPing and defending the indefensible. I'm not saying to cower in fear when someone calls you a Nazi. Just don't EVER even mention it. When asked, deny it and point out the absurdity.

That's how to defang the media. Show them to be liars pushing a false narrative.


This is it in a nutshell. Nazi memes may be useful for causing hypertension in certain SJWs and leftoids, Jewish or not, but should be reserved for online trolling purposes.

Otherwise, ripping apart their leftist crap as idiocy and insanity and absurdity, and attacking their own intelligence (since they purport to be smarter than us), is a better option. A reasoned debate plays into their frame -- even using Nazi memes does so to an extent, Agree and Amplify notwithstanding -- but they can't handle having their opinions flushed down the toilet contemptuously.

Also, within the last year, I've managed to get two cucks to explode at me in complete meltdowns on Disqus merely by calling them "cucks". That was fun.

Blogger Ben Sanderson January 08, 2017 5:47 PM  

I will just say this, and not as prelude to a pissing match. Outside of this blog there is no alt west or alt white. The only recognized alts are alt right and alt light. Therefore, as Vox does indeed hang with Milo and Mike and so on, I think it's safe to say that Vox is alt light.

It matters not a jot how Vox sees himself. What matters is how everyone else sees him. That's all I have to say.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 5:47 PM  

VD wrote:My theory is that VD sees any positive association with Nazi ideology as a sign that the Alt-White would be similar in how we rule.

No, I see it as a sign you'll never get anywhere close to ruling anything. My attitude is about the same as if you started wearing powdered wigs and taking snuff in the name of reviving the Whig Party. It's both stupid and totally irrelevant.

Only it's worse, because it's also counterproductive.


Nobody's calling what we do the American Nazi Party or some such, but okay.

There's nothing wrong with mocking the enemy for lumping people into Nazism when they have no case for it by agreeing, amplifying, getting them to scream and point, and having nothing but tweets and memes by anons to show for it.

They look a lot dumber than we do as "professionals" who continue to feed the trolls non-stop, 24/7, 365.

Blogger 1337kestrel January 08, 2017 5:52 PM  

Considering that the probable alternative is mass slaughter of large numbers of people on all sides, we'd better find a way to revisit those options.

What is more moral, killing 12 million [fill-in-the-blank] or deporting 40 million of them? Because, like it or not, believe it or not, that is the choice the USA will soon be facing.


I said next month. As in literally, when Trump takes office and we have a Republican majority in every relevant government body except California... we are only going to be able to deport illegals. Is it logical? No, as you've pointed out dozens of times, the problem is immigration, not its theoretical legality. But that's where we have to start.

Once the machine is humming along, and more importantly, there are no expectations of more future immigrant voters to appeal to, we can enact policies to remove families with anchor babies and DREAMers. Then first generation immigrant adults. At that point we'll know if the pendulum is swinging out of control, but it'll be too late to do anything about it.

Blacks would be better off, in the long run, migrating to Africa and forming a new ruling class there. But they're also tolerable in the US as a 10% minority, as long as they are treated equally under the law as everyone else.

Blogger Harsh January 08, 2017 5:52 PM  

"I just don't care if anyone else does because I genuinely do not care what anyone thinks of the Alt Right."

Yeah, bullshit.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 08, 2017 5:56 PM  

ALT-WHITE: stop pretending we're Nazis.

ALT-WEST:Stop throwing Nazi salutes, calling yourself Nazis, and lionizing Hitler, and perhaps we'll consider it.

ALT-WHITE:But to deny the impact of the Third Reich is nuts. The US interstate system...They were an unsuccessful flash in the pan, but that was a hell of a political, social, economic, and cultural explosion.


For fuck sakes. See, this is the problem. You're worshiping the fucking Third Reich. Look at all the accomplishments! Nonsense. They had control of Germany. Germans are highly intelligent, productive people. The Prussian military you worship wasn't the Nazi's creation - it was the Kaiser's, along with the old Prussian Junkers. Hitler and his band of opportunists high-jacked that too.

The 12 years of Nazi rule were not any kind of positive cultural explosion. But they had stylish uniforms.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 6:01 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:ALT-WHITE: stop pretending we're Nazis.

ALT-WEST:Stop throwing Nazi salutes, calling yourself Nazis, and lionizing Hitler, and perhaps we'll consider it.

ALT-WHITE:But to deny the impact of the Third Reich is nuts. The US interstate system...They were an unsuccessful flash in the pan, but that was a hell of a political, social, economic, and cultural explosion.


For fuck sakes. See, this is the problem. You're worshiping the fucking Third Reich. Look at all the accomplishments! Nonsense. They had control of Germany. Germans are highly intelligent, productive people. The Prussian military you worship wasn't the Nazi's creation - it was the Kaiser's, along with the old Prussian Junkers. Hitler and his band of opportunists high-jacked that too.

The 12 years of Nazi rule were not any kind of positive cultural explosion. But they had stylish uniforms.



Lol it's only about deconstructing the go-to shame tactic of the Left.

Breaking that down gives them less ammo. It's already working.

Yeah you could only pick the military you don't have an answer for the rest, not including the others I didn't add.

Oh what a terrible thing for a nationalist party to only be in control of ONE nation! That isn't what we're trying to do at all right?

Is the Alt-West about imperialism now?

Blogger tuberman January 08, 2017 6:02 PM  

#66 Jack,
All I can say is the movement toward the Right has been happening and is escalating. I follow sites like CTH, and the people that post their have grown more aware than they were a year and a half ago. The new people get up to speed fast. Some even seem to have Alt-West understanding. The point is, the worthwhile understanding comes in stages, and the stages are moving somewhat Right there.

The problem with many, but not all, White Nationalists is they never rethink things in logical thought-out ways. Ha! Something they share with the Left. Eric Hoffer said in "The True Believer" that the most fanatical Nazis can be turned into the most extreme Marxists and vice versa. That's why when this thing breaks, it will be former Bernie supporters in front burning the Globalist witches.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper January 08, 2017 6:04 PM  

Some Dude wrote:If you met a bunch of african american brothas, and they said they wanted to come along with their glocks and defend the border, are you going to tell them to go fuck themselves is a better question, than this prissy labelling stuff.

Merit an answer actually.

America has 5 major races White, Black, Hispanic, Asian and First Nations

There is also one minor "race" American which includes people of every other race than White that are culturally White.

What the magic soil loons and cucks think is that this can be anyone from everywhere which is nuts. Not at all.

Its 20-25% of the general population of other groups probably lower that can take on this persona and that's being very generous and including mixed race people who lean to the White half.

That small pool makes up the not White but still American ethnic group.

Easiest way to tell, would they volunteer for a high risk war to protect the US one they might not come back from and if they couldn't go gladly serve in some other capacity?

If yes , than they might be an American. Maybe.

This is why you will see an occasional militia member that is Black (Michigan Militia has a few) or Mexican Mestizos part of a border militia but you'd never see a group of "Brothas" down there with Glocks or a Mexican posse from some barrio

Worse there is no way to test for this and no way to determine which immigrants will make it

Its why when you strictly limit immigration even expel undesirables and the US stays almost entirely White the "Americans" living here will do very well and the rest can be managed pretty easily.

However mass importation of foreigners for political and economic gain basically dragged the "Americans" into the mess and will end the Republic if its not reversed.


Blogger Huggums January 08, 2017 6:09 PM  

"For a wide variety of marketing and structural reasons, we can't strip 3rd generation hispanics of their citizenship and start chucking them over the border next month. For moral reasons we can't round up blacks and put them on boats to Africa.

Considering that the probable alternative is mass slaughter of large numbers of people on all sides, we'd better find a way to revisit those options.

What is more moral, killing 12 million [fill-in-the-blank] or deporting 40 million of them? Because, like it or not, believe it or not, that is the choice the USA will soon be facing."
- VD

Why does every plan involve moving or killing large numbers of people from other nations/races? How about white people move themselves back to Europe and defend it? It's more moral than either of the other options.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 6:14 PM  

Every win counts.

So does every loss.

2) Is that why Daily Stormer gets more traffic than this site? Or why TRS and FTN are growing every month, along with AmRen, VDare, etc.?

Your entire movement is barely larger than my personal blog. How very impressive. Infogalactic already gets more traffic than this site too. Alt-Tech is only six months old and it's already larger than the entire Alt-White.

Humiliating the media goes hand in hand with proving they're liars. Trolling gets them to call us Nazis while having absolutely nothing but tweets and memes to point to. The media gets dumber every day they fall for Nazi LARPing.

You're not humiliating the media. You're humiliating yourselves. You look stupid and ridiculous, and most sane people want nothing to do with you. You will never lead anything anywhere because you think like losers. Your entire approach is defensive.

I will just say this, and not as prelude to a pissing match. Outside of this blog there is no alt west or alt white. The only recognized alts are alt right and alt light. Therefore, as Vox does indeed hang with Milo and Mike and so on, I think it's safe to say that Vox is alt light.

And you're still wrong. There are three clearly observable and distinct positions. The Alt-Right is divided into white nationalism only and omni-nationalism; the Alt-White has literally nothing to offer those who are not white. The Alt-Lite is neither.

Some of you morons desperate to "protect the brand" can't seem to grasp the difference between a movement and political taxonomy, even when it is explained to you.

I find it amusing that you are attempting to categorize my ideological beliefs on the basis of my friendship of Milo and Mike. Why not just call me a left-wing Jew? I hang with Martin van Creveld too. You're way too short for this ride.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 6:18 PM  

Why does every plan involve moving or killing large numbers of people from other nations/races? How about white people move themselves back to Europe and defend it?

Because whites have been retreating inside the USA for the last five or six decades. The problem, Huggums, is that neither the Hispanics nor the Blacks are capable of maintaining a modern advanced civilization without Whites. Even many Asians prefer living in a White civilization. So, those non-whites who want to live in one will NEVER stop chasing Whites around if not forcibly prevented.

Notice that Indians don't chase after Whites. Because they don't really care about living in an advanced civilization.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 6:20 PM  

Why does every plan involve moving or killing large numbers of people from other nations/races?

Also, it's not so much "plan" as "what history indicates always happens, sooner or later". It's one of the historical cycles.

Anonymous Rocklea January 08, 2017 6:22 PM  

Alt-right-lite-west-white, all shift the Overton Window and are all driven by demographics and SJW insanity, to white identity politics. Whether this is stated openly or not is irrelevant. In some countries it will be socialist, in some conservative, in some coalitions. I don't see Christendom returning anytime soon, but Christians will form a part as well. Addressing the issue of demographics will be paramount and even a return to some semblance of natural law(only possible through collapse IMHO) will not suffice and war may follow. Outright discriminatory law will also lead to police state or war as it is already leading to under current welfare systems. Hunter Wallace, liberalism and tolerance will al be scorned if thought of at all.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros January 08, 2017 6:25 PM  

1337kestrel wrote:Blacks would be better off, in the long run, migrating to Africa and forming a new ruling class there. But they're also tolerable in the US as a 10% minority, as long as they are treated equally under the law as everyone else.

Unfortunately, if you treat them equally under the law, they will be angry at you due to the lower rate of blacks in higher education and the higher rate of blacks shot by cops and thrown in jail. They can never be content in our society; just suppressed one way or another.

Blogger Cataline Sergius January 08, 2017 6:29 PM  

No, I see it as a sign you'll never get anywhere close to ruling anything. My attitude is about the same as if you started wearing powdered wigs and taking snuff in the name of reviving the Whig Party. It's both stupid and totally irrelevant.

Only it's worse, because it's also counterproductive.


Counterproductive is the best case scenario with them. The Swastika and Sigrune set have two things in common; malignant narcissism and an Omega socio-sexual rank.

Anonymous PinochetsChopperPilot January 08, 2017 6:38 PM  

I think just as some Overton Windows open, others (perhaps we should coin a name) close. Many, if not a LARGE MINORITY of Whites simply don't care if some dudes at an NPI event thru up a Nazi salute, or Roman salute, or if Milo is gay, or if so and so has a "racist past" who is running for office.

The key is the shift, just as some things (gay marriage) go from unthinkable, to debatable, to sensible...some things, including White Identity politics, from across the spectrum, will go from "not discussed in polite company" to "well, he has a good point". How many whites game out to protest Dylan Roof? How many, outside of ACTUAL safe spaces like college campuses, give zero fucks about the murders in Chicago, black abortion, or a group of whites starting a pro-white group?

We reached Peak Negro a couple of years ago and no matter how many (rare as they are) Dylan's there are, because of social media, there will always be plenty of screen time for the latest chimpout--a whites are not rushing to defend the subhumans as they used to--which goes back to the original theory many of us had when it came to PERSONAL CONTACT with blacks--the more contact whites have with blacks, now facilitated by social media, the less they like them or are empathetic to them. What used to take a white kid from Iowa moving to Chicago to see, or going to boot camp--happens daily when the chimpouts are seen in real time.

The first degradation of virtue signaling isn't signaling in the opposite direction--it's remaining silent in the face something that others presume you will feel shame over.

Hail.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 08, 2017 6:39 PM  

Lol it's only about deconstructing the go-to shame tactic of the Left.

Stop lying, Gamma. If it was just about deconstructing a leftist tactic, you wouldn't be yammering on about how great the Autobahn was. But you were, and when I called you on it, you retreated to "Lol, just kidding."

Gamma tell. And that's why you suck at the agree and amplify tactic, too. Leave that to the Alphas.

Breaking that down gives them less ammo. It's already working.

Nothing to do with your antics. Peak Nazi as a viable slur was at least 20 years ago. When Jerry Seinfeld made fun of the Soup Nazi it was clear the term had passed its use-by date. If anything, your incompetent PR antics are slowing down the demise of the term.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 6:39 PM  

Manifest Destiny wrote:Lol it's only about deconstructing the go-to shame tactic of the Left.

Only is a strong qualifier. I suspected you were arguing disingenuously before I offered criticism of the Alt-West, now I know you are because I know you know this isn't true.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 08, 2017 6:41 PM  

Pseudo-dialectic restricts our response to...rhetoric. I hope you're a masochist because this is kind of a thing around here.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 08, 2017 6:47 PM  

Counterproductive is the best case scenario with them. The Swastika and Sigrune set have two things in common; malignant narcissism and an Omega socio-sexual rank.

@155 Cataline Sergius
REVENGE!

@157 Jack Amok
I really wish one of these alt-White types could demonstrate that they aren't in fact Gamma, but this is all consistent with the alt-White being a Gamma/Omega ghetto of the alt-West.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 08, 2017 6:47 PM  

Notice that Indians don't chase after Whites. Because they don't really care about living in an advanced civilization.

You mean feather right? Cause the dots seem to be chasing pretty hard.

Blogger S1AL January 08, 2017 7:01 PM  

That's because hotels, not casinos, are closer to Caucasian than they are anything else. A couple generations eating real food and out from under the thumb of the caste system and the men even start looking like, well, men.

Anonymous Sethinlabora January 08, 2017 7:07 PM  

Hunter Wallace has a point. Alt-lite / Alt-West sounds similar to Buckley's National Review. Maybe the only difference is that the former discusses and acknowledges non-whites as organized into interest groups more than Buckley did. Otherwise, they are similar.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 7:17 PM  

Alt-lite / Alt-West sounds similar to Buckley's National Review. Maybe the only difference is that the former discusses and acknowledges non-whites as organized into interest groups more than Buckley did. Otherwise, they are similar.

You clearly don't know the first thing about Buckley, John Birch, or the history of conservatism. There are no similarities between the situations at all.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd January 08, 2017 7:30 PM  

Manifest Destiny: Good cop-bad cop is the way to go. Unfortunately, Nazi LARPing is not bad cop, it's Keystone cop.

You come across as Buster Keaton, not Clint Eastwood or Heinrich Himmler.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor January 08, 2017 7:37 PM  

Given the definition of Alt-White as advocating a pan-white nation, I would think that would be a very small group. But I wouldn't be surprised if most of them also fly Confederate flags at times.

Anonymous Manifest Destiny January 08, 2017 7:42 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Manifest Destiny: Good cop-bad cop is the way to go. Unfortunately, Nazi LARPing is not bad cop, it's Keystone cop.

You come across as Buster Keaton, not Clint Eastwood or Heinrich Himmler.


Well Nazi LARPing will inevitably get boring, so other ideas should be brainstormed.

Maybe we could get into the horror genre, get some ideas together for how to scare the shit out of our mutual enemies with GIFs and videos

Anonymous Rocklea January 08, 2017 7:42 PM  

Cedric Ricing on Stefan Molyneux:

"I agree. His progression seems publicly deliberate, and the amount of work he's doing is outstanding. Although he may seem "lite", his videos have done much more for normalizing the right viewpoints than most other things."

Having consumed an enormous amount of his work, I have wondered myself if their was deeper strategy involved, or if he just follows the evidence. Regardless he has managed to go from small tent ancap, popularize that to a bigger tent, then back to a smaller tent of alt-west and still manage to squeeze everyone inside. I know because I have also made the same journey.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor January 08, 2017 7:44 PM  

@167 For the long run, think more in terms of "White Girls Are Magic" memes

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 7:49 PM  

Well Nazi LARPing will inevitably get boring, so other ideas should be brainstormed.

Every tactic, no matter how initially effective, will eventually play out or be rendered harmless. One must always be looking for new tactics to utilize.

"White Girls Are Magic" memes are very good. So are crime rate and immigration statistics; there is a reason that Facebook and Twitter are trying to figure out how to ban them.

Anonymous Utah4Trump January 08, 2017 7:54 PM  

I used to read Hunter's Occidental Dissent site regularly about 5-6 years ago. I also used to follow Matt Parrot and Kievsky. I used to be heavily into the WN scene, I was in London, Yorkshire and Bristol units of the British National Party, was a racial Odinist, hung out with skinheads, and attended all the London New Right meetings. I was good friends with Jez Turner and Jonathan Bowden.

The far right scene in London was my life for years.

Hunter, Parrot and Kievsky were very positive and helped me escape from the waste of my life that the WN scene was in many ways.

I left the scene, became a Mormon, moved to America, married a blonde Mormon girl and now have two blond sons. My life is better in every way than when I was on the scene.

WN are right about a lot of things but when you're in the scene, it's really easy to get angry, bitter, frustrated and negative. These emotions and attitudes aren't helpful in achieving your goals.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 8:11 PM  

Correction: I will not be responding to Hunter Wallace. I don't see any more point in further discourse with the Alt-White than with BLM. Except for taxonomic purposes in Alt-Right Revolution, I don't plan to pay them any attention anymore, positive or negative. It's a fruitless distraction.

Anonymous Sethinlabora January 08, 2017 8:30 PM  

VD wrote:Correction: I will not be responding to Hunter Wallace. ... It's a fruitless distraction.

Hunter Wallace, I think, has some thought provoking ideas. A discussion may prove beneficial. Any chance of reconsidering or is your decision absolute?

Anonymous Jack Amok January 08, 2017 8:36 PM  

...when you're in the scene, it's really easy to get angry, bitter, frustrated and negative. These emotions and attitudes aren't helpful in achieving your goals.

No they're not, and good for you getting beyond those emotions. Whatever taxonomy anyone wants to use, ultimately it comes down to whether you're willing to take responsibility for your own outcomes.

Some people look a little funny at Mormons, but those blonde Mormon girls are usually a fair bit hotter looking than the average, and don't mind having lots of kids.

Blogger VD January 08, 2017 8:40 PM  

Hunter Wallace, I think, has some thought provoking ideas. A discussion may prove beneficial. Any chance of reconsidering or is your decision absolute?

I have no problem with Hunter; we probably agree on much more than we disagree. That being said, I won't reconsider because I'm no longer interested in the subject. It's become far too fucking tedious.

Blogger Mountain Man January 08, 2017 8:51 PM  

The Third Reich is what you get when a gamma manages to actually become a "cult of personality".
Its extremely rare when it happens. When it does - its the sociological equivalent of the Hindenberg.

Anonymous Vin January 08, 2017 9:25 PM  

Whitefish is a great example of Alt White with the moral high ground (Gersch) and taking action (good) but then blowing it by being completely oblivious to optics and the current landscape.

A Hamas speaker? In 2017 Cucked for Israel America you have fucking HAMAS as part of your event? Trolling or legit, either way it's too stupid for words.

I was sympathetic and looking forward to it but now...I'm out

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 08, 2017 9:43 PM  

"I don't expect anything positive to come from those who continue to wave the old Libertarian banner. Their ideology and methods are far too weak to compete with the realities of establishment politics."

Something like 94% of lolbertarians are White, yet they invariably advocate for unrestricted immigration, the vast majority of which is non-White. Any political movement that promotes its own demise in such a straightforward fashion has a limited future.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros January 08, 2017 9:48 PM  

That's too much, for an event on MLK Day named after MLK's killer involving a couple hundred skinheads with machine guns explicitly marching against Jews and all who support them?

The only thing surprising is that, if Anglin is going to be at the march as he said, that would require him to actually still be in the country.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 08, 2017 9:49 PM  

@Dunne Eile
"I think Kevin MacDonald is behind the OQ, so it is worth your time, as is any thing MacDonald writes, every one on the right, alt-right or not needs to read his Culture of Critique book ASAP"

Absolutely. He's the editor. F. Roger Devlin is associated with them, too.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 08, 2017 9:53 PM  

@VD
"The core problem is that all you guys are looking for a leader."

No leader = no target

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 08, 2017 9:57 PM  

@Aeoli Pera
"Because the alt-white was a subculture before it was a political movement."
And it's not as if politics is downstream from culture, or anything.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 08, 2017 10:00 PM  

@Duke Norfolk
"Yep. Analogous to the saying (for markets) that "the cure for low prices is low prices" (and the obverse)."

In a perhaps grimmer form, "All bleeding eventually stops."

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd January 08, 2017 10:40 PM  

Manifest Destiny wrote:Well Nazi LARPing will inevitably get boring, so other ideas should be brainstormed.

Try things. You will know they are working when the lefties squeal, and the normies start joining in - joining in with you, not with the lefties. Nazi LARPing fails one of those tests.

Blogger 1337kestrel January 08, 2017 10:43 PM  

Unfortunately, if you treat them equally under the law, they will be angry at you due to the lower rate of blacks in higher education and the higher rate of blacks shot by cops and thrown in jail. They can never be content in our society; just suppressed one way or another.

If treating black people equally under the law means that half of them are in prison, so be it. I think if we allowed free market segregation to take place, there would be three different types of black communities.
1) integrated blacks who represent a small minority in a white community, but tend to hang out together
2) successful blue collar black communities, which you see in rural / suburban areas
3) failed communities, comparable to crime-ridden urban ghettos of today, but better. The reason is that because they would be more segregated, they would revert to using more family and tribal social structures to maintain order.

I won't write a whole thesis on it because the other response I could make is, I don't really care if they like equal treatment or not.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 08, 2017 10:44 PM  

@Manifest Destiny
Well put. Deconstructing the dominant leftist narrative necessarily involves deconstructing, or at least mocking, Holocaustianity and the simplistic, ahistorical portrayal of Hitler as Da Debbil, not-sees as demons, that is an inextricable part of that.

Blogger Happy LP9 January 08, 2017 10:45 PM  

6 Love you Bro, your posts are so great. That movie was scarier than Jacob's ladder to the Today Show and even HRC. So tragi comedy.

Alt Right is the only logical, tenable choice for genx and the younger generations.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 08, 2017 10:53 PM  

@Cataline Sergio
"Dude, think about how long the Moors had been living in Spain when Ferdinand and Isabella started their pet project."

Exactly. Or, conversely, the Portuguese in Angola, or the French in Algeria.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 08, 2017 10:58 PM  

@VFM #7634
"Manifest, you appear to be under the misapprehension that Jews really do have an average IQ of 115. There is no way that's the case..."

Good point. Even more so once you look at other groups of Jews beyond the Ashkenazim. What's the average IQ in Israel again? How do they do on PISA tests?

Blogger Were-Puppy January 09, 2017 12:16 AM  

@121 Cataline Sergius
Dude, think about how long the Moors had been living in Spain when Ferdinand and Isabella started their pet project.
---

I have been reading a book about the Spanish Inquisition, fascinating times. Were these the original book burners? Or would that have been the sacking of Alexandria?

Anonymous Jack Amok January 09, 2017 1:14 AM  

Try things. You will know they are working when the lefties squeal,

Yeah, if you do something and your opponents scream and your allies cheer you on... good job.

If, OTOH, your opponents try to get you on the evening news and your allies cringe and say "aw, man, why did you have to do and do that?", maybe you fucked up.

Anonymous Mathias January 09, 2017 2:15 AM  

@191

There is a biblical passage for this... I know it... Yes! By their fruit, you will know them. I learned a while back that how your enemies and allies respond to your actions is an important barometer in figuring out if what you are doing is actually good for your interests.

As far as idolizing the Third Reich goes, it is foolishness, the accomplishments of the Germans in the 1930's are just that, and the groundwork for them was really laid out by the likes of Otto Von Bismark and his generational cohort. The fact that Germany basically survived two closely spaced extermination attempts is more of a credit to the preconditions on the ground created by said Statesman and his people. I would like to point out that one of the reasons that Germany got battered so hard is that the Men of America had been thoroughly Prussianized before the turn of 1900 by massive central European immigration.

It seems that immigration has fruits of death going both ways, because "successful" immigration produces a people essentially removed enough from their spawning body to consider it foreign, but alike enough to be an even match in a conflict with it.

Anonymous Discard January 09, 2017 4:19 AM  

20. dc. sunsets: I'd rather have Hunter Wallace by my side defending the border than some Chicago gang Dindus. He's been at this for a long time.

I'm surprised at this dust-up. Unless he's changed since I back when I followed his blog, Hunter Wallace is a Confederate, not a Nazi. Confederate or Nazi, as long as he's shooting in the same direction as I am, I won't object.



Blogger Bodo Staron January 09, 2017 10:02 AM  

VD
On the question of traffic, I think you underestimate sites like DS.
https://www.similarweb.com/website/dailystormer.com

As I read this most interesting discussion from Europe some notes:

1. AltWhite is very North American/USA. Can not and will never work in Europe. Hungary is very different from Germany, as is Spain, as is Poland etc etc.

2. AltWest seems more like a bigger tent. RamzPaul is in this camp. And he does not shy away to point out hypocrisy on (leftist) Jews while being friendly with conservative Jews or nationalists etc. AltWhite is looking to purge constantly. Parts of the 16 points can be sneaked easily into conversations. Because these are true and logical. This converts people.

3. For the Larpers: You can do this only in the US. Recently the group "National Action" got banned in the UK. They were not violent, but guess what, the government banned them as a terrorist group. Their optics were stupid? Running around with big Hitler heads on banners is not going to help your cause. I watched one good speech on Youtube, which then negated itself by Hailing and praising Hitler.

4. One of the issues seems to be the Milo question. I follow him on Facebook. He posted all those stories that connect him to the "AltRight" and he constantly denies it. It's comical. It's not him, it's the press that connects him, because he once wrote an article on the movement. He is still very effective in attacking SJW's and Feminists. Why not let him? There is nothing to lose. Not going into the other people, they already denounced so it should be over. Just move on. Stop attacking, ignore. It's very easy.

Stefan is actually much smarter than Cernovic, PJW and so on. He does not comment on fights. He does not get into fights. Still the AltWhite taunts him (ever seen the Twitter handle "Molynauschwitz"?).

The man just does his thing, keeps growing, putting out quality material. Actually a role model on work ethics and online behavior.

Blogger Someguy January 09, 2017 10:36 AM  

What would the Alt Right get out of paying 10k to "debate" Cernovich? I would rather give that 10k to Spencer. Far more beneficial. Besides, I have seen Cernovich "debate" (ex Viking punter), it wasn't that impressive.

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