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Saturday, January 14, 2017

This is really not good

The clock is rapidly running out on antibiotics. Indeed, it may have already run out.
A US woman has died from an infection that was resistant to all 26 available antibiotics, health officials said this week, raising new concerns about the rise of dangerous superbugs.

The woman, who was in her 70s, died in Nevada in September, and had recently been hospitalized in India with fractured leg bones, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported.

The cause of death was sepsis, following infection from a rare bacteria known as carbapenem-resistant Enterobacteriaceae (CRE), which is resistant to all antibiotics available in the United States.

The specific strain of CRE, known as Klebsiella pneumoniae, was isolated from one of her wounds in August.

Tests were negative for the mcr-1 gene -- a great concern to health experts because it makes bacteria resistant to the antibiotic of last resort, colistin.
This is genuinely terrifying. Remember, once a species becomes overpopulated, Nature usually figures out a way to cut it back down to size again. Human intelligence doesn't eliminate that reaction, it merely raises the bar. Immigration and global travel are creating significant health risks, and may even be putting the future of the species in jeopardy.

"The report highlights international travel and treatment overseas as a feature in the introduction of this pan-resistant isolate into the USA," he said.

Complicating matters is the fact that lower average intelligence across the West means that humanity is less able to address these concerns should they arise. Sooner or later, the Trump administration will have to look very seriously at denying antibiotics to everyone who cannot, or will not, abide by a strictly observed drug-taking regimen. The potential consequences are that serious.

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213 Comments:

1 – 200 of 213 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 14, 2017 10:11 AM  

Third World striking back against colonialist oppressors, "US Woman."

Blogger Rob January 14, 2017 10:11 AM  

I've spoken to friends and family in the healthcare industry about this very topic.

The situation is bad.

Blogger The Kurgan January 14, 2017 10:13 AM  

Yup. I really dislike being stuck on this planet of the apes. Can the alien invaders get here already?

Blogger Joshua_D January 14, 2017 10:16 AM  

Do you want "The Stand"?

Blogger Jeff Wood January 14, 2017 10:18 AM  

I remember, years ago, reading that Tuberculosis was becoming resistant to antibiotics.

It took a lot longer for news to leak that the problem was mainly found in certain ethnic groups where good medication discipline is non-existent.

It didn't take a moment for me to wonder if groups with good discipline would soon be affected. I suppose I now have my answer.

Blogger Happy Housewife January 14, 2017 10:19 AM  

"This town needs an enema."

Anonymous Mother Abigail January 14, 2017 10:21 AM  

There's rats in the corn.

Anonymous TLM January 14, 2017 10:28 AM  

India? Besides an Indian, who in the world would go there for treatment. I know I'm raciss, but these people shit in the street, not to mention the bathing in the Ganges. They are dirty pagans with horrific germs, etc. Why was she in Nevada? Article doesn't say if white woman or another extended family member of some H1B.

We went from painting T's on the doors of TB infected homes to flying in Ebola patients. We is f*cked.

Nosocomial infections are deadly, stay out of the hospital if at all possible. And wash your damn hands after touching anything in there.

Blogger Scott Birch January 14, 2017 10:30 AM  

This has been long in coming. Those supposedly high-IQ SE Asians have been taking antibiotics like they're candy for years. Other parts of the world aren't far behind. This is what we get. It makes me wonder how effective all those traditional herbal remedies could have before bacteria simply mutated them into obsolesence.

Blogger Cinco January 14, 2017 10:35 AM  

Would you agree that once enough people start dying of antibiotic resistant bacteria, a larger market will exist and drug manufacturers will allocate more resources into research and production? It seems to me that enough people aren't sick with the "superbugs" to warrant the increased expense for corporations right now. Additionally, most of these "superbugs" are only found in one place, hospitals.

I know that there is a particular form of gonorrhea that is immune to everything they throw at it. They should probably rename that thing Tinderrhea. It turns out abstinence education was right after all.

Anonymous NateM January 14, 2017 10:38 AM  

"The report highlights international travel and treatment overseas as a feature in the introduction of this pan-resistant isolate into the USA," he said.


Coming soon, the Sequel to Eat, Pray, Love: Eat Pray, Pan Resistant Staph Death. That i'd actually read.

Blogger The Observer January 14, 2017 10:39 AM  

@12:

Drug research, IIRC, and research in general, isn't a matter of just throwing money into something and when you hit the X amount invested mark, you get a discovery. You can pour billions into new drugs and still not get anything useful out of it, even with advances in drug design.

Anonymous Smile Of The Shadow January 14, 2017 10:40 AM  

Science wise, as an adult, is there any reason where not taking anti-biotics is a good thing? For people who have already taken several, and with our immune systems pretty set as they are, when you're very sick and you may not need it, does it hurt anything?

I understand there's a global danger that doctors have overprescribed this everywhere for far too long just wondering scientifically what the real implications are on an individual basis.

Blogger VD January 14, 2017 10:40 AM  

Would you agree that once enough people start dying of antibiotic resistant bacteria, a larger market will exist and drug manufacturers will allocate more resources into research and production?

No.

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 10:42 AM  

Interesting that she suffered from "Klebsiella pneumoniae." I spent two days in a hospital in the summer of 2013 because of a Klebsiella infection in my lungs which led to double pneumonia. Luckily, I was in otherwise excellent health and recovered completely with antibiotic medication.

Blogger Sillon Bono January 14, 2017 10:44 AM  

We're fucked, there's nowhere to run... this is getting moar and moar interesting by the minute! \o/

1 week to inauguration!

Blogger Peter Parker January 14, 2017 10:45 AM  

Hospitals on the US have begun over the last couple of years to implement antibiotic restrictions via a process called "Antibiotic Stewardship". The main thrust is to teach physicians to avoid the kneejerk reaction of going straight to the newest (and most expensive) antibiotics, and to tailor the spectrum of coverage to the actual bacterial sensitivity. Anecdoctally, my hospital has dome this for about 2 years, and thankfully we are seeing a decrease in multidrug resistant isolates using this strategy.

Granted, this doesn't block MDR strains of bacteria brought on from outside our geographical region.

Anonymous Silly but True January 14, 2017 10:46 AM  

Stupid question: why was a women hospitalized in India and infected with a rare bacteria which is immune to all forms of US antibiotics allowed back into country?

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 10:48 AM  

Cinco wrote:Would you agree that once enough people start dying of antibiotic resistant bacteria, a larger market will exist and drug manufacturers will allocate more resources into research and production? It seems to me that enough people aren't sick with the "superbugs" to warrant the increased expense for corporations right now. Additionally, most of these "superbugs" are only found in one place, hospitals.

I know that there is a particular form of gonorrhea that is immune to everything they throw at it. They should probably rename that thing Tinderrhea. It turns out abstinence education was right after all.


It's been my observation that the more medicine can do to cure or at least control a medical problem, the less willing people are to live a lifestyle that prevents/controls/cures the problem in the first place. In other words, if you are told that you are pre-diabetic, it's easier to take a pill than change your eating habits. On top of that, the aging of America leads to many aged people with worn-out parts being kept alive on medication, e.g., high blood pressure.

Blogger Angry Midwesterner January 14, 2017 10:51 AM  

These 3rd world countries are terrible with antibiotic stewardship. That honestly should be more than enough reason to outright ban all travel from those countries, let alone immigration. The public health burden alone is obscene. We in this country are already ruining decent ones like Levaquin. Imagine if these 3rd worlders ruin Zosyn. We will legit be fucked

Anonymous LurkingPuppy January 14, 2017 10:53 AM  

Complicating matters is the fact that lower average intelligence across the West means that humanity is less able to address these concerns should they arise. Sooner or later, the Trump administration will have to look very seriously at denying antibiotics to everyone who cannot, or will not, abide by a strictly observed drug-taking regimen. The potential consequences are that serious.
The first step should be export control, to keep antibiotics and antivirals out of countries where they have been commonly misused or adulterated. (Including Mexico; build that wall!)

The second step should be strict liability for both hospitals and hospital personnel who fail to prevent transmission of drug-resistant infections within their premises.

Blogger rumpole5 January 14, 2017 10:56 AM  

I recently did a same day hospital procedure to laser apart a-to-large-to-pass kidney stone. My wife was not happy about having me home in the "science project" condition that I left the hospital, but I think that I made the right decision for just the infection issues addressed by this blog post. We did experience some difficulties that required a dash back to the emergency room on the first night home.
A practical or registered nurse could develop a good business advertising the setting up of a home discharge plan, obtaining the materials, and providing a home care nurse to supervise the arrival, provide initial home care and family caregiver training, and be on call to respond to issues that arise.

Blogger WarKicker January 14, 2017 10:57 AM  

"This has been long in coming. Those supposedly high-IQ SE Asians have been taking antibiotics like they're candy for years. Other parts of the world aren't far behind."

95% of my patients who think they need an antibiotic don't. Most, not surprisingly, have viral infections. Even after I explain this to them, they remain skeptical and tell me that they've gotten better on antibiotics under similar circumstances before causing me to almost have to do a face palm. And there is always the patient who is "about to leave town" or "is going to Disney World" and would like an antibiotic so the sniffles that they starting experiencing a day earlier doesn't become a sinusitis. There is a lot of pressure to acqueisce lest they leave your office angry or trash you on a review on the internet or Facebook. We have indeed dug ourselves into a huge hole.

Blogger Some Dude January 14, 2017 10:58 AM  

The Pharma cos are going to be angry about any rationing of meds. As a liber-retardate I believe our quasi AI shareholder maximisation algorithms are in the best interests of the politic. Signed. Tyler Cowen, Phd Retardate.

Anonymous NateM January 14, 2017 10:59 AM  

Another reason to build the Wall. You can buy antibiotics over the counter in Mexico, in fact in some towns like Naco, Sonora, there's not much there EXCEPT pharmacies to bring people there. A lot of Mexicans on the american side go over for meds you can't by here (Antibiotics, Steroids, etc). So not all the MRB are originating from outside.

OpenID basementhomebrewer January 14, 2017 11:00 AM  

LurkingPuppy wrote:Complicating matters is the fact that lower average intelligence across the West means that humanity is less able to address these concerns should they arise. Sooner or later, the Trump administration will have to look very seriously at denying antibiotics to everyone who cannot, or will not, abide by a strictly observed drug-taking regimen. The potential consequences are that serious.

The first step should be export control, to keep antibiotics and antivirals out of countries where they have been commonly misused or adulterated. (Including Mexico; build that wall!)

The second step should be strict liability for both hospitals and hospital personnel who fail to prevent transmission of drug-resistant infections within their premises.


I agree but the boomers will not allow it unfortunately. That generation has been thoroughly indoctrinated on how terrible Ellis and angel islands were. Screening for health problems before allowing people into the country has been demonized and portrayed as unnecessary for virtually their entire lives. The fortunate side of the failing education system is those events in US history are rarely taught now and therefore Millennials are less likely to have been indoctrinated.

Anonymous Rodrigo Duterte January 14, 2017 11:02 AM  

Woman returns from world's largest open air toilet with incurable infection. News at 11.

Here's an eye opener about the problem

Blogger Seal Of Lion January 14, 2017 11:03 AM  

There are new classes of antibiotics that are being developed. Ones that work very differently than the ones we have now. Problem is they are still in development and it might be several years before they are close to being available.

Blogger pyrrhus January 14, 2017 11:03 AM  

Rev. Malthus never left the building, he just took a smoking break...

Blogger pyrrhus January 14, 2017 11:09 AM  

@22 When I had emergency surgery for a ruptured appendix, the Residents kept telling me that as soon as I could walk, I had to get out of there because the hospital was too dangerous. It was the second highest rated hospital in the Chicago area (and the surgeon did save my life, barely).

Blogger Derek Kite January 14, 2017 11:09 AM  

The gay and licentious lifestyle cannot exist without effective antibiotics. Or not for long. The fentanyl death rate is an indication of how bad it can get very very quickly.

Anonymous Jack January 14, 2017 11:11 AM  

Who's really surprised that she caught an Enterobacteriaceae in India? Their streets are public toilets, it was probably all over her shoes.

Blogger Tino January 14, 2017 11:12 AM  

With respect, drug resistance is an inevitable mathematical/bio process, and has little to do with inappropriate use of antibiotics. Either a bacterium DOES have the enzyme/mechanism to inactivate the antibiotic or it DOES NOT. So when a human taking antibiotics, properly or not, wipes out the population of bacteria that is sensitive, it automatically hosts the microscopic fraction that is insensitive. This insensitive fraction may or may not be sufficient to propagate to surfaces or other hosts depending on other aspects of that patient's immune system. Hence the large time constant (relative to bacterial life) to the development in the herd of the antibiotic-resistant strain.

There are other aspects that lead to this same or equivalent situation -- for example, even if you take an antibiotic properly, tissue distribution is uneven, thus regular bacterial flora can be trimmed in the same manner, resulting in a selection of normal, non-pathogenic bacteria that happens to be antibiotic-resistant that will be pathogenic in another human being when it penetrates into another tissue compartment.

Then, there is horizontal transfer of genes, so...

I could go on for hours, but you get the gist. If everyone took their antibiotics to the letter of prescription, you would still end up with antibiotic resistant bacteria. I am amazed it took 75 years to get here.

Blogger Nick S January 14, 2017 11:13 AM  

Those poor microbes just need a more welcoming environment. Shame on you.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein January 14, 2017 11:15 AM  

Let's head over to Hap's Texaco and have a beer or twelve.

Blogger cheddarman January 14, 2017 11:15 AM  

The only way to end this is two fold


The only way to end this is two fold

1) end immigration and ship non-westerners back to their country of origin
2) criminalize homosexuality, due to gays being another vector for the spread of antibiotic resistant bugs

Anonymous BiigGayKoranBurner January 14, 2017 11:18 AM  

Importing low IQ third worlders only makes this worse. They are not smart enough to take meds as instructed.

I remember, years ago, reading that Tuberculosis was becoming resistant to antibiotics.

It all comes from the 3rd world. It was eradicated in the 1st world when it only took 6 months and less money than a day trip to the beach in meds, now takes 18+ months and $250,000-$1.5mill of meds per person, usually picked up by county health offices. Thanks to do gooder doctors using 1st world taxpayer money to give free meds to 3rd worlders who think they are smarter than white doctors so they stop taking the meds when they start to feel better only to sell them on the black market. Thank Doctors With Out Borders(but ran chickenshit from Somolia's borders) for this.

It didn't take a moment for me to wonder if groups with good discipline would soon be affected. I suppose I now have my answer.

All it takes is an affirmative action CNA to take a blood pressure machine in and out of a marked isolation room. One of the interesting stories of last year was a homeless man's DNA who was in a coma ended up being found on a later murder of a rich man, it turned out the rich man took the same ambulance afterward.

India? Besides an Indian, who in the world would go there for treatment. I know I'm raciss, but these people shit in the street

If you have to go to india tell your doctor you have taken up spelunking and get the rabies vaccine. The only people in the US that are given vaccine immunity to rabies are spelunkers and veterinarians. Tourists to india have gotten bitten by rabid animals but not been able to find the shots in time.

, a larger market will exist and drug manufacturers will allocate more resources into research and production?

I am of the opinion that we have already discovered all of the safe, easy, low side effect effective drugs. Keeping your self healthy is as important now as the founding fathers day.

I know that there is a particular form of gonorrhea that is immune to everything they throw at it. They should probably rename that thing Tinderrhea

Grindrrhea more likely. Now gays have taken to just taking Truvada Prep pills at the cost of $1500+ per person per month(picked up by taxpayer or others on insurance plan) instead of using condoms. Prep only protects against HIV nothing else. http://www.clatl.com/news/article/13086560/fulton-opens-free-prep-clinic

Science wise, as an adult, is there any reason where not taking anti-biotics is a good thing?

Every drug has side effects. Since jews jewed Colchicine that was used since before recorded history from being cheaper than dirt to hundreds of dollars a month even with insurance, the poor substitute drug allopurinol has significant side effects for over 20% of both blacks and Asians.

Hospitals on the US have begun over the last couple of years to implement antibiotic restrictions via a process called "Antibiotic Stewardship".

Its not doctors fault but stupid 3rd worlders including those in the US. Import the 3rd world get 3rd world problems.

Blogger cheddarman January 14, 2017 11:19 AM  

The development of new antibiotics is a tactical approach to a problem that has to be dealt with on a higher level. A nation has to enact public health measures like criminalizing dangerous lifestyles and eliminating disease carriers from the 3rd world

Blogger Mr.MantraMan January 14, 2017 11:19 AM  

Indians are tough, they can literally drink shit water that would fell us regressive gene white bread no account too privileged types and our fancy shmancy meds.

Blogger Natalie January 14, 2017 11:21 AM  

I do have to wonder if the alternative remedies crowd will be proudly vindicated or completely shocked by how their therapies hold up.

Also - I wonder if the push to be more responsible with antibiotics could lead to a renewed interested in avoiding cesarean births. They pump you full of antibiotics for those things. Might swing the risk profile back around in favor of normal birth except in those cases when surgical interventions are really needed

Blogger Boko Harambe January 14, 2017 11:21 AM  

Our eldest child was hospitalized a few years ago due to an infection that wouldn't respond to Abx.

Her doctor cultured a sample to make sure he knew exactly what bacteria had infected her. He Rx'd the correct meds. Infection only appeared to go away...she had a febrile seizure the same day a different doc did her follow up check. Poor kid was barely conscious for a week while she stayed hydrated via IV drip and was pumped up with a five day course of IV antibiotics.

Well, thankfully she recovered and is healthy now. I do not run off to the doc when kind de show the slightest sign of illness. I let fevers run their course unless they get very high for too long. But I know more than a few nervous moms who demand a z-pack or Amoxicillin at the first cough or sniffle. It's silly, and deadly, but we all knew that...

Blogger Me-man January 14, 2017 11:23 AM  

This issue creating the resistant strains in not predominantly antibiotic use in humans, but is antibiotic use in farming for livestock, where the vast majority of antibiotics are used and overused, and where the discharge into the environment is large and continuous.

Treating people is not the problem. Livestock is an order of magnitude more detrimental in accelerating the resistance process and spread. Massive use in livestock is the main problem, especially in the underdeveloped world. China is notorious for using last resort antibiotics on farms, thus creating the resistant strains in nature where they proliferate rapidly.

Blogger Mountain Man January 14, 2017 11:24 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Mountain Man January 14, 2017 11:27 AM  

Maybe if big Pharma wasn't joined at the hip with Big Farma we would have a lot less of our meat and even cheeses ( shredded in particular) giving the fat masses low doses of antibiotics in nearly every forkful of food they're shoveling into their mouth.
That, along with nasty diseases imported by turd world immigrants are the two biggest culprits behind this slow motion horror flick.
The food issue will never be addressed by Trump. He, along with most city dwellers, just don't get it. Last I heard he was looking to appoint to the USDA a former CEO of one of the largest pork producers in the country. Jaust another fox guarding the house. He should have considered Joel Salatin instead.

Anonymous badhairday January 14, 2017 11:28 AM  

If memory serves the largest gains in public health over the last 300 years were due to improved sanitation; not to antibiotics.

The last 70 thousand years have shown that we can thrive without antibiotics if we really have to.

I'd be more concerned with Islam putting us back into a self perpetuating 8th century than a cull.

Anonymous Susan January 14, 2017 11:30 AM  

There are many reasons for why this is happening. VD hit on a couple of the biggest. Another is people who are administered an antibiotic correctly but they stop taking it as soon as they feel better.

That practice by patients for the past 20 years or so has done a lot to contribute to the resistant strains we are seeing right now. Especially with the TB problem in this country.

Overly protective parents who are convinced that Johnny or Sally really needs that drug, because mom heard that Tommy down the street was getting it is another big problem too.

Getting the FDA to start administering commonsense rulings on stuff like this, backing up doctors who know better, would go a long way to slowing down the problems with these resistant bugs.

Only thing people go to India for is because of the Taj Mahal or because they are foodies. I cannot think of any other reason for visiting at all. Visiting their cat's litter box would be cheaper and give them much the same experience.

Blogger pyrrhus January 14, 2017 11:33 AM  

@44 Absolutely right. Florence Nightingale (who was not a nurse) was hugely successful in promoting sanitation in Britain and the world. The problematic result is that people with weak immune systems, who would rarely have survived 200 years ago, are now common in the population, hence more and more dependence on antibiotics.....

Anonymous BBGKB January 14, 2017 11:33 AM  

With respect, drug resistance is an inevitable mathematical/bio process, and has little to do with inappropriate use of antibiotics.

One Latrina who stops taking the free meds Dr Whitey gave her once she starts to feel better then sells the rest on the black market burns thru at least 50 years of proper medication lifespan. Penicillin would probably be almost as effective as it used to be if we kept the single megadose shot as standard instead of spreading it out 10-14 days. The reason they changed was some diseases( mostly later stage syphilis & lyme disease) would get killed too fast and the dead diseases would be hard for the body to get ride of all of the destroyed diseases with the worse being syphilis & lyme.

criminalize homosexuality, due to gays being another vector for the spread of antibiotic resistant bugs

Back when AIDS was a death sentence gays used protection, now that its just something to take pills for & lets you lay about on social security disability there are people who get it on purpose.

OpenID archerfisher21 January 14, 2017 11:37 AM  

She was "repeatedly treated" in India and given a treatment not even approved in the USA... in other words, multiple Indian doctors worked hard to help make sure her infection was antibiotic resistance. And then you have to consider India is a country where the government can not convince people to use toilets instead of defecating in fields. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/08/indias-government-is-now-shaming-people-into-using-toilets/?utm_term=.e1740743ba1d

Probably not as much risk in the USA if we would just close the doors and keep exotic infections out...

Of course, in the USA as far as antibiotics are, you can mail order things like amoxicillin and keflex... google "Fish Mox" if you don't believe me.

Blogger Chuck Dantes January 14, 2017 11:39 AM  

Fractured leg bones in India? Immediately made me think of that height increasing surgery. But offering it to a 70 year old woman is malicious malpractice so I'm hoping it was just the result of a fall.

Blogger WarKicker January 14, 2017 11:39 AM  

"With respect, drug resistance is an inevitable mathematical/bio process, and has little to do with inappropriate use of antibiotics."

Interesting. I'm aware of the mechanisms and other related factors regarding antibiotic resistance you mentioned in your post and have often wondered if antibiotics were use appropriately 100% of the time, if there wouldn't still be a movement toward resistance on a much slower time scale. Most of the epidemiological studies I've read tend to show a direct relationship between inappropriate antibiotic consumption and the emergence and dissemination of resistant bacteria strains. Thank you for your insight.

Blogger wreckage January 14, 2017 11:39 AM  

@41, oh yes. There's a strong case for refusing any meat or animal products from China until they unfuck the situation. They'll still have in-situ problems with the runoff, but usually resistant strains arise locally and stay local.

Resistant bugs, like resistant weeds, are not "super"; generally they compromise metabolically to obtain antibiotic resistance. This means that at least some of the time, the very worst multi-resistant bugs are not very viable in the wild, or are highly vulnerable to basic hygiene, or arise on-site independently.

This also means that quarantine is very effective at containing the problem; one of my absolute pet peeves is Libertarians, who I agree with strongly on several issues, insisting that quarantine and biosecurity are scams. It beats anything on the left for pure, total, fucking retardation; it's beyond faking the moon landings, it's batshit insane.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 11:40 AM  

34 years ago I worked in the microbiology lab of a major clinical reference laboratory. On occasion I'd get a bacterial culture, usually from a urine specimen, where susceptibility tests revealed no antibiotic was likely to be effective. I asked what would become of that patient (usually a resident of a facility for quadriplegic persons. The answer was, they would probably die of sepsis if the infection traveled to their kidneys or broke into their bloodstream.

Pan resistance is propagated almost entirely in immunocompromised and/or long-term institutionalized/chronically ill people.

Such unfortunates are the Typhoid Marys of our Age.

Blogger pyrrhus January 14, 2017 11:42 AM  

@45 Since bacteria reproduce about every 20 minutes, and hence evolve rapidly, it is only a matter of time until they become resistant to an antibiotic that is widely used. Wise use will only slow the process.

Blogger Me-man January 14, 2017 11:42 AM  

You can't stop antibiotic resistance, you can only slow it down. Targeting human use and ignoring livestock use is targeting 20% of antibiotic use (in the United States) vs 80% which goes to livestock will do little.

The harbinger of widespread problems will be huge culling of livestock by resistant bugs on industrial farms. It is not one international traveler dying, although this is a bad sign.

Anonymous BBGKB January 14, 2017 11:42 AM  

What was wrong with my first comment that got deleted?

Blogger pyrrhus January 14, 2017 11:45 AM  

@52 That is very interesting....The human Petri dishes of eldercare.

Blogger S1AL January 14, 2017 11:45 AM  

It was too gay for life.

Blogger wreckage January 14, 2017 11:46 AM  

@54 With proper isolation and biosecurity measures, factory-farms are the MOST able to avoid antibiotics altogether. Meat birds for example will pretty much never need antibiotics if managed correctly, according to a mate I worked for, who managed tens of thousands such.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 11:46 AM  

The lesson of this OP is, stay healthy at all costs; hospitals are now full of pretty carpeting & wallpaper & such, which cannot possibly be disinfected. This is a testament to the diversion of their intended role, just one of many signals that modern hospitals are perfectly positioned to aid in transmission & propagation of this scourge.

There's never been a better time to reduce your risk of being brought to one for treatment or surgery (childbirth is a tricky, possible exception.)

PS. As I see it, infection control at most hospitals is abysmal.

Blogger wreckage January 14, 2017 11:49 AM  

@59, over here, they stopped boiling everything - too expensive. So, there's one mode of decontamination just completely discarded. It's bonkers.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 11:50 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Nick S January 14, 2017 11:52 AM  

Back when AIDS was a death sentence gays used protection, now that its just something to take pills for & lets you lay about on social security disability there are people who get it on purpose.

I expect to see the 2 hour special CNN exposé on this any day now....Oh wait. This just in:

"That's not fair. That's not fair. That's not fair. Can we stop that, please? It is not fair. It is a low blow. Yes, I want to end it. This is the lowest of the low...

Can you please stop? Can we please cut him off, please? Can we end this? Thank you. We're done." ~ Don Lemon

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 14, 2017 11:54 AM  

This is what happens when everyone defects in a societal dilemma. You can't design a system or technology that eradicates bad faith actors, all you can do is raise the stakes.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair January 14, 2017 11:55 AM  

"Drug research, IIRC, and research in general, isn't a matter of just throwing money into something and when you hit the X amount invested mark, you get a discovery. You can pour billions into new drugs and still not get anything useful out of it, even with advances in drug design."

@12 Bingo! These facts are probably fairly out of date (heard them from a doctor back in the '90s) on average it takes 15-20 years to develop one prescription med and approx. $800-900 million. For every one drug approved by the FDA that a company created, there are approx. 100 that are not. The ignorance of people regarding pharmaceuticals (I'm not in the industry or a medical related one, for that matter) is simply astounding some times. Yes...Big Pharma *snorts*.

"Stupid question: why was a women hospitalized in India and infected with a rare bacteria which is immune to all forms of US antibiotics allowed back into country?"

@18 Not stupid at all. She evidently broke it two years prior to being admitted, per the article. What was she doing there (India) in the first place? Why is it our problem? Furthermore, to these morons saying we can't close our borders during these crises, I was on the Hill back in '09. F'ing CUBA (yes, that Cuba) closed it borders! It can and (in situations of a medical emergency) must be done. Lest people forget, we have laws on the books from the 1800's allowing the government to quarantine persons. This pre-dates 9/11, Ex-Part Miligan, and even Posse Comittas.

"It's been my observation that the more medicine can do to cure or at least control a medical problem, the less willing people are to live a lifestyle that prevents/controls/cures the problem in the first place. In other words, if you are told that you are pre-diabetic, it's easier to take a pill than change your eating habits. On top of that, the aging of America leads to many aged people with worn-out parts being kept alive on medication, e.g., high blood pressure."

@19 Having multiple doctors in the family, the one thing that seems to incense them more than anything else is what you wrote above: people are too lazy to practice PREVENTIVE MEDICINE.

"The second step should be strict liability for both hospitals and hospital personnel who fail to prevent transmission of drug-resistant infections within their premises."

@21 Operationalize that for me. Ok, is it airborne? Let's install Level 4 shit all around. How much will that cost? Ok, it's not airborne but possible transmission? Ok, level 3. Any idea how few hospitals IN THE COUNTRY are Level 3 or 4? Look it up on Infogalactic. Under 30! Also, how are you going to get staff to take additional steps, especially the physicians? They're already so busy learning ICD 10, coding, and complying with Obamacare they barely have enough time to see patients beyond an assembly line style form a patient care.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair January 14, 2017 11:55 AM  

"There is a lot of pressure to acqueisce lest they leave your office angry or trash you on a review on the internet or Facebook. We have indeed dug ourselves into a huge hole."

@23 That Internet review crap is such bs. Yes, who gives a flying **** what your besdide manner is if the patient dies? But but but he was so caring...

@27 That was hilarious! Thank you!

"Back when AIDS was a death sentence gays used protection, now that its just something to take pills for & lets you lay about on social security disability there are people who get it on purpose."

@47 It's still an automatic decline for life insurance purposes.

"The answer was, they would probably die of sepsis if the infection traveled to their kidneys or broke into their bloodstream. "

@52 It's a pissy way to go.

"With proper isolation and biosecurity measures, factory-farms are the MOST able to avoid antibiotics altogether. Meat birds for example will pretty much never need antibiotics if managed correctly, according to a mate I worked for, who managed tens of thousands such."

@58 Not sure on antibiotics, but a buddy who works for a very WELL KNOWN, pharma company on their stuff for poultry said they can market all their HGO grown poultry as non HGO since current marketing standards only care if HGO is present in the meat at the time of sale. By the time they off the poultry, they've shat it all out. #truestory

"The lesson of this OP is, stay healthy at all costs; hospitals are now full of pretty carpeting & wallpaper & such, which cannot possibly be disinfected."

@59 Going back to tiled floors would be better. My most recent hospital experience (I've been in and out of them my entire life and am convinced I've picked up a few immunities here and there) I got blood on the pre-op bed (they started a line on me). I apologized. The RN thought it was funny.

Blogger WarKicker January 14, 2017 11:56 AM  

"You can't stop antibiotic resistance, you can only slow it down."

Bingo

"modern hospitals are perfectly positioned to aid in transmission & propagation of this scourge. "

Agreed. I try to get my patients out of the hospital ASAP and many of the surgeries that traditionally required post-operative hospital stays, I'm sending patients home same day or performing them as out patient procedures. This trend seem to have cut down on post-operative infections.

Anonymous Loki7 January 14, 2017 11:57 AM  

I recall reading in OMNI magazine about 25 years ago of a soviet doctor who was working on zapping bacteria with micro-viruses. However the USSR fell and when she asked for help from the west Big Pharma said no. No real profit.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 11:58 AM  

With respect, drug resistance is an inevitable mathematical/bio process, and has little to do with inappropriate use of antibiotics.

That is bullshit.

It's astonishing to watch "the experts" (physicians) egregiously misuse antibiotics. Chronic use, especially of concentration-dependent agents, is common and frankly crazy.

I know from years of experience the frustration of trying to explain the difference between concentration dependent & time dependent agents to doctors, most of whom could not give a shit.

You simply have no idea the level of ignorance about all things infectious found among physicians. Microbiology isn't their strong suit.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 14, 2017 12:00 PM  

@33. No just no.

While I'm not certain that this happens for all varieties of resistant bacterium, I've been given to understand that it's a fairly solid rule of thumb:

In a non-hostile environment, non-resistant bacteria replicate much faster than the resistant varieties. This is for a few reasons:
#1: Resistance often is a result of nonfunctional receptors that would otherwise assist the bacteria metabolically.
#2: Even when #1 isn't the case, resistance is an adaptation that produces more strain on the bacterium (or uses more resources/energy), slowing propagation.

Adaptations are just that, adaptations. When placed in an environment where those adaptations are not useful, they immediately become a liability and a waste of resources. Horizontal gene transfer means nothing in a non-hostile environment, because bacteria will not "query" for resistant genes to be passed, thus they will never be passed.

@39. Someone else said it first, but what if many of those alternative remedies are now seen as quackery because bacteria ALREADY adapted to them?

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 12:01 PM  

As a former antibiotic salesman I can tell you that the drugs do differ in their capacity to drive resistance, even within drug classes.

This is a fact that even few Infectious Diseases Specialists know.

Even the experts are poor at using their own tools.

Blogger Me-man January 14, 2017 12:01 PM  

at 58

We will see if farms become the incubators like hospitals have.

Blogger Aeoli Pera January 14, 2017 12:01 PM  

Also, this development will favor k-selection of Asians. They have a higher percentage of neanderthal genes, many of which influence the immune system.

The way to survive without medicine is not to get sick. To not get sick, get enough rest and sleep, exercise moderately, don't get injured, get out more (for light exposure to common diseases), eat lots of meat and veggies, and take vitamin C every day, that's all I got for you.

Blogger Shimshon January 14, 2017 12:02 PM  

I had a staphylococcus aureus infection in my eye last year. That was the most painful and aggressive infection I had ever had in my life. Thank G-d it wasn't MRSA. Within two days of onset I was completely blind in that eye, even after starting antibiotics. At that point, the hospital insisted I check in just to make sure they could monitor me closely. For the first couple days, I was taking two different antibiotics, alternating between them, every half hour, day and night.

I still have corneal scarring that makes it impossible to completely correct my vision. But at least I recovered and can see in that eye.

Anonymous David of One January 14, 2017 12:05 PM  

Dakin's Solution is worth knowing. It is easy to make and costs nearly nothing to make.

Named after Dr. Dakins, the solution is 1/4 of 1% of hypo-sodium chloride ... regular unscented bleach. NOT bleach alternative.

That works out to a little less than 2 tablespoons to a gallon of purified or distilled water.

I had a serious abscess following extensive surgery. It was MRSA and kept recurring.

Dakins Solution is a very good topical antibiotic.

In my case I was directed by my Doctor to use syringe with a irrigator tip to flush the wound a few centimeters below the surface after the abscess was surgically drained.

For me, this worked where the "big gun" antibiotics were problematic with a somewhat isolated infection in what ended up being a scar lined pocket below the skin in muscle tissue that had been repeatedly "debreeded".

You can look up how to make Dakins Solution online. Some of the directions include some buffering agents.

You can also buy Dakins Solution at Walmart, CVS and other stores and pharmacies.

Blogger YIH January 14, 2017 12:05 PM  

@8 TLM: Why India? There are those in the media who for libertardian reasons have been promoting ''medical tourism'' (their term) with claims of ''You can get X procedure for 1/5th of the cost it would be in America - including the cost of travel and hotel!''. Often downplaying the pitfalls - such as above.
@10 Cinco: Super clap? Maybe your remembering this. I did.

Blogger tz January 14, 2017 12:07 PM  

But antibiotics make livestock grow bigger and faster

Liberals should be concerned about ALREADY resistant STDs or maybe it is part of the globalist plot. Read about the effects of syphilis. The rest are either icky, render you sterile or both. Victorian Age II.

@5 MDR = multi-drug resistant; XDR - extremely DR. Russian prisons bred a lot of XDR. Most are from not following the antibiotic schedule.

@10 - it isn't solved just by money, and many aren't the $3 for the whole bottle. Vancomycin must be done via an IV carefully or the patient will go deaf. Biochemically, it has been more complex pathways blocked each time for newer ones.

Basically we are approaching Chemotherapy type cures - hope we kill the bug before the patient.

@19 - Or one generation of monogamy and STDs would disappear.

@36 Diseases aren't homophiles, though they provide easier pathways. But are you going to try to ban sex outside of marriage including prostitution? HIV was more specific. The rest mostly aren't. Way back when we had classes in this there were just 2, syphilis and gonorrhea. Now there are dozens.

This tome from 2001! documents why we're here and her earlier coming plague

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 12:09 PM  


In a non-hostile environment, non-resistant bacteria replicate much faster than the resistant varieties. This is for a few reasons:
#1: Resistance often is a result of nonfunctional receptors that would otherwise assist the bacteria metabolically.
#2: Even when #1 isn't the case, resistance is an adaptation that produces more strain on the bacterium (or uses more resources/energy), slowing propagation.


Exactly. Remove the selection pressure and wild-type returns to dominance.

The problem is that now you have a readily available inoculum of resistant subpopulation, so if the patient's immune system is unable to rapidly mop up what the anti-infective can't kill you get a full-blown infection caused by non-susceptible cells.

Hospital acquired superbugs are worrisome, but you should fear community acquired infections far more. Community acquired MRSA can be transmitted on surfaces & while susceptible to common antibiotics, is extremely virulent. An infected skin lesion has gone into pneumonia and killed otherwise healthy people.
At least, this wad the situation 7 years ago when last I paid attention.

Blogger wreckage January 14, 2017 12:10 PM  

@70 That's rather alarming. I was only a farmer and I did what I could to be uptodate on that kinda info (WRT weeds, not germs).

Another reason to resist the obsession with incremental time-and-brain taxes in the form of endless legal and legislative compliance. It's not "free", and it's not "no regrets", it all has a real cost and that cost is often egregious.

Blogger wreckage January 14, 2017 12:14 PM  

@77 replace all "stainless" surfaces with copper alloys.

Blogger Tino January 14, 2017 12:14 PM  

@69 Your understanding, is in a phrase, incomplete and tending towards wrong. I will avoid appeal to authority and simply suggest you think it thru. There is NO conceivable way to blitz 100% of the bacteria 100% of the time in 100% of the patients. Whatever the failure rate is, will result in antibiotic resistance over time, and eventually a resistant bacteria escaping into the wild. The rest is then epidemiology. What changes, and not all that much if the math is to be believed, is the time constant of propagation between the scenario of perfect antibiotic use and imperfect antibiotic use.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 12:15 PM  

@ David of One, you highlight the key difference between a disinfectant & and an anti-infective. I see lots of people conflate the two.

10% bleach kills everything with proper exposure (not sure about prions, though.) Too bad it kills us, too, if ingested or injected.

Anonymous BBGKB January 14, 2017 12:16 PM  

just one of many signals that modern hospitals are perfectly positioned to aid in transmission & propagation of this scourge

Even scarier than the affirmative action CNA taking blood pressure cuff in/out of isolation rooms is last year the DNA from a homeless man in a coma was found on a rich murdered man after the homeless was in a coma. The only contact they had was the rich man used the same ambulance after the homeless man.

Blogger wreckage January 14, 2017 12:18 PM  

@81 the bee bacterial disease, American Foulbrood, requires 20 freakin' minutes of exposure to kill the spore-phase (concentration might be lower). Boiling doesn't work unless you hit 160C and maintain it for 10 minutes. I am very glad it doesn't infect humans.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 12:19 PM  

The anti-infective is not intended to "kill everything." The patient's immune system is required to reestablish peaceful coexistence.

It is when the bacterial sp. is too virulent or the patient's immune system too weak, that trouble multiplies.

We are filled with bacteria. Part of the problem is that every systemic agent bathes the normal flora, too (some drugs more than others.)

Blogger Dave January 14, 2017 12:20 PM  

get out more (for light exposure to common diseases), eat lots of meat and veggies, and take vitamin C every day

Vitamin D3 too, most people are deficient.

Blogger Tino January 14, 2017 12:20 PM  

"The second step should be strict liability for both hospitals and hospital personnel who fail to prevent transmission of drug-resistant infections within their premises."

Completely utterly impossible at the present state of the art unless you want every hospital to operate as a Level IV containment facility.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 12:24 PM  

Antibiotics are unprofitable compared to drugs used for chronic diseases like diabetes. Only biologics buck this trend (e.g., hep C treatments) b/c by their nature they don't ever go "off patent."

Blogger Matthew Davis January 14, 2017 12:25 PM  

This is going to happen before nanotechnology becomes a solution.

1. No one who has lived in India should be allowed in the country. India is the single largest offender when it comes to the abuse of antibiotics.

2. Anyone prescribed antibiotics must agree to see the prescribing doctor multiple times over the course of their use and if it is possible to measure blood levels, do so. Otherwise they should only be given enough for a couple of days and required to see the doctor much more often.

Actions like these seem extreme, but even if they are taken a lot of people are going to die. If no action is taking, we are looking at an absolute calamity.

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 12:31 PM  

Mr.MantraMan wrote:Indians are tough, they can literally drink shit water that would fell us regressive gene white bread no account too privileged types and our fancy shmancy meds.

The Darwinian survival of the fittest. Only the strong survive to reproduce and pass on their strong genes to their offspring.

Blogger Dystopic January 14, 2017 12:32 PM  

The Russians have been messing with phage therapy for a long time... could that become a viable replacement?

Anonymous David of One January 14, 2017 12:39 PM  

I have been told by an Infectious Disease Specialist that Thailand has the most virulent MRSA bacteria on the planet.

I've related this information to Active Duty Military personnel who were excited to "vacation" in Thailand and the behavior that goes with visiting Bangkok and other destinations.

I have little doubt that Thailand is the only country with very bad "bugs" as evidenced by the increase in diseases formally eradicated in the U.S. and Europe including a number of diseases and bugs never seen before.

Blogger Jed Mask January 14, 2017 12:40 PM  

Yikes... I thank God the Lord Jesus Christ is my "Great Physician" indeed. Amen.

~ Bro. Jed

Anonymous Loki7 January 14, 2017 12:41 PM  

@90 If the woman got the bac infection from the Ganges, the same river also held the micro virus that could of saved her life.

Anonymous vfm #0202 January 14, 2017 12:46 PM  

Could a 5-year rotation of which antibiotic families are being actively used work /technically/? The idea is to have the plasmids conferring resistance to XYX be very rare when XYZ gets (re)introduced into use.

Of course the concentrated benefit and diffuse harm when defecting from such a rotation regime makes this politically problematic.

Blogger pyrrhus January 14, 2017 12:51 PM  

@89 Yes, India's lack of modern sanitation has surely produced people with strong immune systems and powerful digestive tracts....

Anonymous Loki7 January 14, 2017 12:54 PM  

@94 You may be on to something. Not many years ago the frozen bodies of men from a hundred years before were found to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in their stomochs. How could this be 60-70 years before antibiotics unless bacteria can only mutate in a very narrow vector.

Blogger Ron January 14, 2017 12:55 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger tuberman January 14, 2017 12:57 PM  

#30 pyrrhus
Curious, which hospital in the Chicago area did you go to for your ruptured appendix? There are a big number of bad or mediocre hospitals in Chicago or surrounding areas and antiseptics cannot kill most of the worst germs.

Anonymous BBGKB January 14, 2017 1:01 PM  

Vitamin D3 too, most people are deficient.

Make sure you get D3 as the other versions of D are not as well utilized.

Blogger ace January 14, 2017 1:02 PM  

I can't help but be charmed at the thought of the Ridiculous Society being forcibly reacquainted with the laws of nature. I imagine all of the people who stand in smug judgment of their grandparents and great-grandparents will be very surprised to find out how much lower than them they actually are.

Anonymous BBGKB January 14, 2017 1:07 PM  

H7N2 cat-astrophe in NYC, who will keep career women company?
http://nypost.com/2017/01/12/city-quarantines-hundreds-of-cats-amid-bird-flu-outbreak/

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 14, 2017 1:07 PM  

@80. No, it is not. You failed to read and think through what I posted in entirety. Resistant strains will not succeed "in the wild". They only exist and continue due to pressure we exert on their populations via antibiotic use.

I never so much as even implied there was an antibiotic panacea. I have no idea where you got that idea from.

To go into depth, yes, you could eliminate antibiotic resistant bacteria. How? Well, by being a harsh, cold bastard about it (and this [lots of harsh cold bastards] will happen eventually anyway if current trends continue). Someone comes in and is found to be infected with a resistant strain? Lethal injection + incinerator. Anyone else happens to contract it? Same solution, immediately. Failing that, complete quarantine of the entire hospital until all infected are long dead and disposed of. No one out, no one in.

However, for the present non-harsh-cold-bastard reality, it would be naive to think that patients will forgo antibiotic treatment (and risk or forfeit their lives) to avoid producing or propagating AR strains. It's also naive to think that no patients will be complete fornication-tards and stop their full course of antibiotics the instant they start to feel better in direct violation of their doctor's very specific orders.

Here's how you get antibiotic resistance via the fastest and most efficient method:
#1: Get a bacterial infection.
#2: Get antibiotics for the infection.
#3: Stop taking the antibiotics before the infection is completely eradicated (leaving only the somewhat-resistant bacteria to propagate and further mix their differing resistant genes).
#4: Repeat steps 2-3 ad-infinitum, substituting as many different antibiotics as possible as fast as possible.

If, on the other hand, you went through the full regimen as prescribed and successfully exterminated that bacteria from your body, the somewhat-resistant types will have died, and will not develop into the effectively-fully-resistant strains.

Similarly, if you refuse to use the antibiotics that already resistant bacteria have adapted to resist on those bacteria (and preferably no antibiotics at all) the resistant strains will either go extinct or dissipate genetically into the larger wild population of that bacteria. (Effectively dying or de-adapting.)

To put it simply, antibiotic resistance is only beneficial in the presence of antibiotics. When other solutions are universally applied, antibiotic resistance will - as a huge set of now-detrimental adaptations - vanish rapidly into the wind that is the wild un-adapted population.

Will we ever completely discontinue antibiotic use in order to eliminate resistant strains and "super-bugs"? Almost certainly not.

Anonymous canis January 14, 2017 1:18 PM  

Handwashing adherence rates are only about 40% in hospitals.

Let that sink in.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 14, 2017 1:19 PM  

Our rather secluded lifestyle in a rural area is looking pretty good right now. The biggest exposure we have is through our 4 yr old grand-niece (who's like a granddaughter to us; we see her often) who unfortunately goes to preschool (aka disease central).

And my aversion to doctors' offices and hospitals. And that “routine” colonoscopy I'm supposed to get after age 50? No thanks. (And f#$@ you Katie Couric.)

Blogger tuberman January 14, 2017 1:26 PM  

I suspect many people with even "White Bread" immune systems will survive, if they know how to boost their own immune systems rather than use antibiotics except during absolute emergencies. I use to get over various bacterial and viral infections in record time due to several natural helpers such as echinacea, NAC,
vitamin C, zinc, D3, astaxanthin, and etc. I would use two or three of these at a time with the effect of stopping everything dead without drugs.

Anonymous RedJack January 14, 2017 1:29 PM  

Interestingly enough, I am being treated for pneumonia. I was given a high powered antibiotic and strict requirements on when to take it. My doc said "There are quite a few people who I wouldn't give this to, because they will stop taking it once they feel better".

She also said she has hospitalized three people this week with it, who DIDN'T follow directions.

Anonymous Anonymous January 14, 2017 1:31 PM  

The consequences of human stupidity are disastrous. And unfortunately it doesn't matter if most of the world wakes up and decides to stop spamming antibiotics in their body; from what I understand China alone has massively contributed to the rise of super bugs as doctors there prescribe antibiotics for just about anything. Not to me to mention the entire animal agriculture industry feeds it's animals antibiotics MIXED IN WITH THEIR FOOD

Blogger Happy LP9 January 14, 2017 1:32 PM  

Americans wont eat bother to eat healthy pre-biotics and probiotic foods upon getting a cold its just here's a pill. The superbug issue is a problem that reached Pittsburgh PA which branched into our hospitals that border PA in WV so its a mass effect level crisis.

Anonymous Just another commenter January 14, 2017 1:32 PM  

Any bets that the leftist morons will want to transport the ill here "for better treatment"?

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 14, 2017 1:33 PM  

Mountain Man wrote:He should have considered Joel Salatin instead.

Hear, hear. Or at least consulted with him on the best candidate (as I doubt he'd be interested in the job, other than being a consultant). He's got a great list of things we could do to steer our ag industry in the right direction. And it's a might big ship so it wouldn't happen overnight, to say the least.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 14, 2017 1:36 PM  

We can't forget the surge in anti-bacterial soaps as a contributor to this either. Ridiculous concept, really. And if you really feel the need it's better to wash with soap and then use an alcohol-based sanitizer.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 1:39 PM  

RedJack, were you prescribed Levaquin (levofloxacin) or another fluoroquinolone? Just curious what a doctor now thinks is "powerful."

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 1:41 PM  

Triclosan in soaps is a very stupid notion going back 30 years.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor January 14, 2017 1:44 PM  

@90 The Russians have been messing with phage therapy for a long time... could that become a viable replacement?

Yes, absolutely. The main challenge to be overcome is that phages need to be more specifically tailored to a particular bacterial strain than antibiotics do, but phage therapy holds a great deal of promise.

Anonymous Anonymous January 14, 2017 1:49 PM  

Military-emforced quarantines have been a highly effective way of stopping deadly pandemics since the Black fucking Death. Libertardians gonna libertard.

Blogger VFM #7634 January 14, 2017 1:49 PM  

IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong), antibiotic-resistant bacteria reproduce more slowly or require more energy than susceptible bacteria, which is why resistant bacteria don't persist if antibiotic use drops.

That said, I think antibiotics are what has allowed gay culture to become so entrenched, and helped the latest expansion of Islam. The Turks lost the Balkans because Muslim death rates were so much higher than among Christians because Muslims got syphilis and other STDs so much more often.

Interestingly enough, death rates in the United States started to head upward in 2010-2011. Including among nonwhites -- before then, 80% of annual deaths were non-Hispanic whites. I suppose this is because the first post-1965 immigrants are starting to die off.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 1:49 PM  

Bottom line: the biggest horror stories about Antibiotic Resistance revolve around extremely ill people who have very compromised immune systems.

Should that change, and AR organisms begin to cause common, but often fatal if untreated diseases like community acquired pneumonia or acute pyelonephritis, all bets are off.

Perfectly healthy, strong and young people get pneumonia & no one really knows how or why now. It happened to my 17 year old son a decade ago. What you assume is just a bad viral URI with a fever lasts too long or becomes more acute.

Always ask, "Do you feel anything like crackling in your chest when you inhale?" That's a dead giveaway.

Anonymous Philalethes January 14, 2017 1:52 PM  


Antibiotics are among the crowning successes of conventional (allopathic) medicine, in turn among the peaks of the Western Civilization we're so anxious to preserve. Unfortunately, conventional medicine nearly always suppresses only symptoms rather than changing causes. Sometimes the suppression of symptoms lasts long enough to let the person feel "well" for the rest of es life; but increasingly often the unaddressed causes simply manifest as other symptoms (or a repeat of the same). And meanwhile, the poorly-nourished, immune-compromised "patients" continue to reproduce.

The real problem with all this almost nobody seems to be willing to even mention – though the OP hints at it. It's the same as the real problem behind the "climate change" scam. Of course the climate is changing; it's never stopped changing since the Earth was formed some 4½ billion years ago (by some accounts). The problem is that humans are living in ways that require the climate never to change: e.g. Bangladesh, India, China, Indonesia, Africa, et al. Not to mention New Orleans. Until that problem is addressed, problems deriving therefrom will only continue to proliferate.

Among the few who have brought up the real problem are Paul & Anne Ehrlich, with The Population Bomb, published almost 50 years ago. Just the other day I saw an article on some "conservative" website excoriating them. Sure, they were (and I suppose still are) "liberals", and probably hold a lot of views I would disagree with, but the simple, brutal fact they pointed out remains true: an ecosystem of finite size and resources cannot support an infinite human population – and especially not in the style to which all aspire. As VP writes above, balance will be restored eventually.

In this context, the frequent complaints that the Western nations (including Japan) are not reproducing at "replacement" levels make no sense to me. Why do we need more people? How many is enough? When I was a child, California's population was less than half what it is now. Is it really better off? Would it be, even if the entire population were White Northwest Europeans? I see the declined birthrates of the Western nations as a plus – even if it's for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately, a large portion of the decline is accomplished by abortion, which is another phony "solution" that only postpones the problem.

Just as in an individual life we can choose to stop the behaviors that are racking up debts of all kinds that must eventually be paid, so on the species level humanity collectively does have the possibility of choice. So far, despite our proud claims to rationality, as a species we are employing only the survival tactics of the "lower" animals who can act only on instinct. Under stress, most species will reproduce even faster, in the unconscious hope that some will survive. Whatever is coming, it is likely that the genus Homo will survive in some form, though probably in much reduced numbers (and circumstances). The tragedy, as always, is that so much of the coming suffering could have been (could be) avoided. But that doesn't seem to be the way most people want to do it.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 1:54 PM  

Ya. They won't eat pork (originally out of justified fear of disease), but packing fecal material in someone's colon with their penis over and over, driving feces up their urethra, is A-Okay!

Talk about rabbits with a high disgust threshold.

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 1:54 PM  

RedJack wrote:Interestingly enough, I am being treated for pneumonia. I was given a high powered antibiotic and strict requirements on when to take it. My doc said "There are quite a few people who I wouldn't give this to, because they will stop taking it once they feel better".

She also said she has hospitalized three people this week with it, who DIDN'T follow directions.


I don't understand why people stop taking an antibiotic because they "feel better." They can't take back unused pills for a refund.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 1:58 PM  

Philalethes, just as long as the pop drop doesn’t dry up all the nuclear engineers. Most of the power plants in the USA cannot just be "turned off." A sudden hard stop (including loss of electricity) and half the country east of the Mississippi will be down wind of a Fukashima-level problem.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 1:59 PM  

They save unused pills for the next time they feel sick. This is a side effect of prescription drug laws.

Blogger Teri January 14, 2017 2:00 PM  

I had three MRSA infections. The clinic would lance them, pack them and give me Bactrim. The last one, I was treated by a different doctor. He lanced it, didn't pack it and gave me Vancomycin. I haven't had any further problems with it.

I talked to the head of infectious diseases at the clinic. She told me the local strain was not resistant to Bactrim and gave me a prescription for it! I was incredibly lucky to be treated by that doctor. This is part of the reason I dumped my pulmonologist there when he wanted to do a bronoscopy. I'm not doing any unnecessary procedures.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 14, 2017 2:01 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:We are filled with bacteria.

Which introduces another complicating factor here. We have large populations of symbiotic bacteria (and other flora) that we need to be healthy in order for ourselves to be healthy. We're only now really starting to understand this.

Killing them off along with the ones causing disease all too often leads to other problems, which are usually chronic, long term, and hard to diagnose.

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 2:12 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:Bottom line: the biggest horror stories about Antibiotic Resistance revolve around extremely ill people who have very compromised immune systems.

Should that change, and AR organisms begin to cause common, but often fatal if untreated diseases like community acquired pneumonia or acute pyelonephritis, all bets are off.

Perfectly healthy, strong and young people get pneumonia & no one really knows how or why now. It happened to my 17 year old son a decade ago. What you assume is just a bad viral URI with a fever lasts too long or becomes more acute.

Always ask, "Do you feel anything like crackling in your chest when you inhale?" That's a dead giveaway.


As I mentioned earlier, I developed bacterial pneumonia in the summer of 2013. The only symptom was shortness of breath. I spent 2 days in the hospital and went home. I felt better, but still had shortness of breath, though not to the same degree. Further tests were eventually run and in January of 2014 it was discovered that I had the Klebfiella bacteria in my lungs, as well as a staph infection (!). I took an antibiotic (or two, I don't recall) and felt fine in a fine days.

An alternative doctor that I went to after I left the hospital but before further tests were run correctly diagnosed that I still had an infection simply from reading the results of a blood test. He didn't think that I needed to stay in the hospital at all. I must have picked up the staph infection there - go in with one problem, come out with another. I knew a very elderly man who died of a staph infection acquired in a hospital.

Anonymous Philalethes January 14, 2017 2:12 PM  

@15: I spent two days in a hospital in the summer of 2013 because of a Klebsiella infection….

@22: I recently did a same day hospital procedure to laser apart a-to-large-to-pass kidney stone.

Last summer and fall I went through a series of out-patient operations for the urinary tract, to laser-pulverize ("cystolitholapaxy"; see videos on YouTube) a bunch of stones in the bladder. While recovering from the last one, I noticed that the urine seemed a little cloudy. The hospital checked it (and charged me three times what an independent lab I'd used before had charged for the same procedure) and found Klebsiella. Hmm. I did a little research, and discovered that Klebsiella is (a) very commonly contracted in hospitals during surgery, and (b) resistant to the antibiotic I'd been taking to clear intestinal pathogens (and the last vestiges of a previous UTI, different bacterium).

So far the infection doesn't seem to be serious, and I'm hoping that as I gradually recover from 20+ years of increasingly serious chronic illness (caused, it seems, in great or total part by the bladder stones – something which none of the health professionals I've been to, conventional and "alternative" – including the urologist – ever guessed at; I only know I've been getting better instead of worse since they were removed) my own recovering immune system – fortified by various "natural" aids – will take care of it.

I'm due for yet another operation in the summer… I can only hope that the Chinese herbal formula I'm now taking will, as advertised, dissolve the last of the stones, rendering the operation unnecessary.

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 2:15 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:They save unused pills for the next time they feel sick. This is a side effect of prescription drug laws.

Oh! I didn't know that - that's for telling me.

Anonymous RedJack January 14, 2017 2:16 PM  

DC Sunsets.
500 mg of levofloxacin once a day. I was coughing non stop, it hurt to breath, and I couldn't catch my breath. I don't remember the "crackle", but the doc stated I was going to be hurting pretty bad if I didn't start antibiotics (I typically avoid them). Had a major upset at work, and was working 15 hour days in a high dust environment for two weeks straight. Caught a cold along the way, and never got over it.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 14, 2017 2:18 PM  

Elizabeth wrote:I don't understand why people stop taking an antibiotic because they "feel better." They can't take back unused pills for a refund.

I honestly think they just forget. People are terrible at compliance with medication in general (among other things). And they don't bother to find ways to help remember. So without the symptoms to remind them, it just falls out of their minds.

Anonymous RedJack January 14, 2017 2:20 PM  

@127 My sister in law is a nurse. Many don't forget, they sell them on the street.

Blogger Duke Norfolk January 14, 2017 2:25 PM  

RedJack wrote:My sister in law is a nurse. Many don't forget, they sell them on the street.

Yeah, I don't deny that happens. I just think the forgetting is the larger reason. It's easy to do in a busy life unless you take active measures to ensure you remember. Just ask all too many women about their birth control pills. And that's not for something that's just over a ten day period (or whatever the specific time frame).

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 14, 2017 2:28 PM  

@Jeff Wood
"I remember, years ago, reading that Tuberculosis was becoming resistant to antibiotics"

Forget about drug-resistant TB. TB in general was nearly eradicated by the 80s in the US, until the combination of HIV and uncontrolled Third World immigration brought it back.

Blogger Scott January 14, 2017 2:29 PM  

> "Nature"

o_O

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 14, 2017 2:31 PM  

@TL
"We went from painting T's on the doors of TB infected homes to flying in Ebola patients. We is f*cked."

That's a very diseasist, or perhaps infectionist, attitude, you bigot.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster January 14, 2017 2:34 PM  

"Problem is they are still in development and it might be several years before they are close to being available."

They already are available. Just not in America, because Innovation Is Icky!

I read an article a few months ago about an American woman who was told she was going to die with some untreatable disease which was immune to antibiotics, but found some gene-hackers in Eastern Europe who created a targeted virus to kill off the infection. That kind of thing is the future of medicine, not finding some magic leaf in the Amazon that cures disease for a few years before it becomes immune again.

But the Western medical establishment is completely unable to deal with custom-designed genetic cures. How can they require ten years of testing to ensure it's 'safe' if anyone can build one in their basement DNA synthesizer?

It's well past time we replaced witch-doctors with medical engineers. But the medical establishment will fight it tooth and nail.

Blogger Quicksilver75 January 14, 2017 2:40 PM  

The future will be one of a lot more cocooning, avoidance of random crowds, and keeping your neighborhood & country secure.
There will also be premium on keeping one's immune system in top form. Probably one of the ways the education system breaks for good is that their will be too few newbie teacher lambs to manage classrooms of 7 yr olds, freshly arrived from the 3rd world.

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton January 14, 2017 2:41 PM  

I've traveled quite a bit in my life, and have known many travelers. Everyone I know who has gone to India, including myself, was prescribed small doses of antibiotics for one or two days in order to lessen the symptoms temporarily, and with the doctor's intention being that you'll come back and spend more money.

I've said this many times- India will be the starting point for a global pandemic,not Africa, and Indian "doctors" will throw gasoline on the fire. India is as dirty and corrupt as any part of Africa, but also rich with a highly mobile population thanks firstly to the British rail system, and later to the H1B scam and Indian businessmen.

An unhygienic, corrupt, and incompetent population who sell meds unethically with no prescription and completely outside of the usage guidelines, and who travel the world by the millions AND serve as doctors in the west.

What could go wrong? Everything. That's what.

Blogger Tino January 14, 2017 2:41 PM  

@102 oh goodness, I haven't laughed so much in ages.

I'm going to stop now. Your draconian, Nuremberg-violating approach to handling infectious disease reveals you have no clue about bacterial disease transmission nor the litany of forces at work here. You sound good, but you actually don't know.

I leave it to the readership to dissect why your "off-to-the-incinerator"/"nobody in-out" [paraphrased] can't work except for a well-targeted single vector *viral* illness.

Peace to all, see you on the next thread when the God Emperor Ascendant slays a new dragon.

Blogger RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow January 14, 2017 2:42 PM  

LOL theres no such thing as antibiotic resistance

If you want to cure antibiotic resistant bacteria, all you have to do is introduce a population which outreproduces the infected bacteria

Eating fermented products, is an incredibly simple way of fighting all antibiotic resistant infections

Kefir is known to heal infections with ease

Or you use a highly adaptive broadspectrum natural antibiotic, like oregano oil which prevents bacteria from reproducing

The only thing infections are resistant to, are isolated lowspectrum pharmaceutical antibiotics

Blogger Quicksilver75 January 14, 2017 2:48 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 2:55 PM  

RedJack,
Interesting. I sold that drug for its entire patent life 1997 to 2011. It's best in class, but definitely not a first resort. Rare but big-deal side-effects are now known.

Ironically, it's probably best used at 750mg once daily for 5 days for pneumonia. Higher doses for shorter courses make sense for concentration dependent agents, but it was introduced at the 500mg so that mostly stuck.

The good news is that very little is excreted intestinally so little parties with your normal intestinal flora.

There's some data that suggest trying to normalize intestinal flora after antibiotic use via eating fermented foods like kifer, natto and sauerkraut.

In the pre-antibiotic era about 1/3 of people who developed pneumonia died. In the flu pandemic of 1918 almost all the deaths were due to secondary bacterial pneumonia. To this day, influenza kills almost no one.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster January 14, 2017 2:55 PM  

"The future will be one of a lot more cocooning, avoidance of random crowds, and keeping your neighborhood & country secure."

That too. Unfortunately, millions will probably have to die or become permanently crippled by these diseases before the West will be willing to support a closed-borders policy.

On the plus side, VR is going to devastate the travel industry over the next few decades, so the cost of physical travel will increase dramatically. And it looks increasingly like we're entering a new Little Ice Age, which should discourage more Third-Worlders from wanting to visit the Frozen North.

Blogger tuberman January 14, 2017 3:07 PM  

#136
Yep, fermented foods boost the immune system on the gut level, and also the blood, liver, and spleen (these are all overlapped and connected anyway). People will need to ferment their own foods, and that will take disease resistance to the next level.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT January 14, 2017 3:08 PM  

Thread is up to 110 posts now so some of my comments may have been covered above.

* Genes which confer AB resistance have always existed (confirmed from bacteria recovered from ice core samples). We did not cause them by synthesizing or using AB.

* Using AB will increase the population of resistant bacteria. But they will never take over and render AB useless because the same genes which confer resistance introduce disadvantages as well. They will always be the minority.

* Eliminating all AB use for a time would not eliminate AB resistant bacteria. It would reduce their population size. But this would save a handful of lives per year at the expense of tens or even hundreds of thousands of lives, thinking of the US human population. Government policy to "fight" AB resistant bacteria could very easily kill more people than AB resistant bacteria would under a worst case scenario.

* People tend to lump anything "antibiotic" into the same category which leads to comments like "AB soaps create resistant bacteria." (No offense @110.) It depends entirely on what's in the soap. Along the same lines extensive use of one AB drug may have no impact on the effectiveness of another AB drug. Any policy to alter AB use in the hopes of reducing the population and risk of resistant strains has to be intelligent and not assume everything is equal like a SJW.

* In response to increasing (though still rare) cases of AB resistant infection, doctors are becoming 'stingy' with AB prescriptions. This will only make the problem worse. It is a key reason why people take half their prescriptions and horde the rest. It's also trivial to get AB through other means, and gov is no more going to control this then they can control cocaine or heroin.

* Doctors need to test to see if bacteria is involved whenever symptoms indicate a possible infection. If the test is negative they have something real and tangible they can use to convince the patient not to abuse AB from some other source. If the test is positive then they know which strain(s), and therefore which drug(s) to prescribe instead of just randomly picking a broad spectrum AB and hoping for the best.

* Doses should also be higher across the board. The dose IS the poison and it's better to hit an infection hard if you want to eliminate bacteria which are showing some resistance.

* I'm sure this will come as no surprise to the Ilk, but the people most likely to abuse AB prescriptions are immigrants. I have friends in the medical field who are constantly telling me about some third world immigrant who nearly died because they didn't take their medicine as prescribed (AB or otherwise). We need to send all illegals home. We need a moratorium on immigration. And we need to be ruthless in pressuring legal immigrants already here to live the American way or GTFO.

* India is a literal shit hole of disease and infection. Indians here on H1B visas often travel home. Do the math.

* Finally: you are exposed regularly to things that would kill you if they could get past your skin in sufficient quantity. Sanitation, sanitation, sanitation. And keep yourself as healthy as possible because the resources your body can bring to bear on an initial breach can make the difference between not ever knowing there was a battle and laying in a hospital bed praying that you survive.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 14, 2017 3:09 PM  

Philalethes wrote:In this context, the frequent complaints that the Western nations (including Japan) are not reproducing at "replacement" levels make no sense to me. Why do we need more people? How many is enough?

All of the various social programs, including especially old age pensions, require a significantly larger population of working-age people than retired and disabled people. With US demographics at the point of passing the intestinal impaction of the Baby Boom (and similar population bulges elsewhere) into retirement, it will become a choice of binging in more people, or cutting retirement benefits.

That's all it's about, keeping us Boomers fat and happy.

Blogger Quicksilver75 January 14, 2017 3:10 PM  

re: Comment #116-
Ehrlich's warning was mocked by Neocons (a bit less so today) cause many of them are 'every sperm is sacred' Utopians. Translation: they want to make money flipping real estate deals, selling toilet paper, and developing malls. It is the Locust view of economic growth, but it also gave them psychotherapy feelz since it made the USA less white.
Ehrlich himself was a victim of hard left SJW bullying as they forced him to help get the Sierra Club to marginalize immigration control patriots. It was case of the left eating its own to feed the Diversity Beast. Ultimately, neither the SJW Left or the Neocon right care about the Environment or sustaining civilization. What they care about is homogenizing the world so the developed world isn't white or European in character. They also want the world's suffering to be shared equally. We should all suffer the same. You may call this a wider war on Personal Responsibility, and a war against Merit & Beauty.

Blogger tuberman January 14, 2017 3:18 PM  

#136
Yep, fermented foods boost the immune system on the gut level, and also the blood, liver, and spleen (these are all overlapped and connected anyway). People will need to ferment their own foods, and that will take disease resistance to the next level.

Blogger Matthew Davis January 14, 2017 3:25 PM  

The lack of understanding of anti-biotics, anti-biotic resistance, and just complete pseudoscience in these comments is ridiculous.

No, Thailand is not the biggest threat by a long shot.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/India-has-highest-rates-of-antibiotic-resistance-rampant-misuse-to-blame/articleshow/49784929.cms

I don't think a lot of people here understand how serious this is. The person Vox is talking about was unable to be cured even after the use of all 26 FDA approved antibiotics in the US. Drug resistant bacteria are appearing so rapidly we can't create new antibiotics fast enough. We are dangerously close to having to rely on drugs that have severe side effects that are now reserved for livestock.

Pump home remedies like vitamins into your body until they are coming out of your ears. You people are living in a fairy tale.

Blogger AngelaMVK January 14, 2017 3:26 PM  


https://itun.es/us/i5EiY?i=841084567

Anonymous One Deplorable DT January 14, 2017 3:29 PM  

@116 and @143 - the Ehrlich's are not mocked because every sperm is sacred or because someone wants more real estate deals. They are mocked because their dire predictions failed to materialize for reasons which were obvious beforehand to more critical thinkers. See the Simon-Ehrlich wager.

If you want a reasoned approach to issues surrounding population and resource use click here.

Anonymous RedJack January 14, 2017 3:46 PM  

DCSunsets. I have an allergy to penicillin, so that limited the Doc some. Also, the beds at a local hospital are full of pneumonia patients right now, and she said "I don't feel you want to end up there." Been locked up in the spare bedroom for 48 hours, but I am not in pain anymore.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT January 14, 2017 3:50 PM  

@145 - I don't think a lot of people here understand how serious this is. The person Vox is talking about was unable to be cured even after the use of all 26 FDA approved antibiotics in the US.

AB are not a magic on/off black/white instant cure. They do not kill all of the bacteria for you. They open another front in the battle waging between your immune system and the bacteria thereby increasing, sometimes dramatically, the odds your immune system will win.

She was in her 70s. She had been through two years of surgeries and issues. She didn't have much of an immune system left.

Had she been younger...had doctors tested first and gone straight for the big guns...had the doses been higher (which a younger person can better tolerate)...the outcome likely would have been different.

Drug resistant bacteria are appearing so rapidly we can't create new antibiotics fast enough.

They have always existed. They are not "appearing rapidly." And they are not going to replace the population of bacteria for which AB are very toxic.

We are dangerously close to having to rely on drugs that have severe side effects that are now reserved for livestock.

No. We are "dangerously close" to an increase in the relatively small number of cases where we have to rely on drugs that have severe side effects.

I do agree with Vox's points that immigration and global travel create new and unnecessary health risks. I would freeze all immigration tomorrow. And given the cesspool that India is I would terminate all travel to/from that country unless and until they stop living worse than animals.

But I do not agree that "time is running out" since it's not possible for this or any "super bug" bacteria to supplant the globe's bacteria population tomorrow. Or ever.

Blogger J Carlton January 14, 2017 3:53 PM  

Very scary video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plVk4NVIUh8

Anonymous Jack Amok January 14, 2017 3:58 PM  

I do have to wonder if the alternative remedies crowd will be proudly vindicated or completely shocked by how their therapies hold up.

Most alternative remedies are throwbacks to before modern drugs and generally work - to the extent they do - by boosting your own body's ability to deal with the problem and heal itself. So I expect they'll work as well or as poorly as they ever have.


Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 4:14 PM  

Duke Norfolk wrote:Elizabeth wrote:I don't understand why people stop taking an antibiotic because they "feel better." They can't take back unused pills for a refund.

I honestly think they just forget. People are terrible at compliance with medication in general (among other things). And they don't bother to find ways to help remember. So without the symptoms to remind them, it just falls out of their minds.


I guess so. I forget to take my vitamins.

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 4:15 PM  

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:@Jeff Wood

"I remember, years ago, reading that Tuberculosis was becoming resistant to antibiotics"

Forget about drug-resistant TB. TB in general was nearly eradicated by the 80s in the US, until the combination of HIV and uncontrolled Third World immigration brought it back.


Leprosy has come back.

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 4:19 PM  

RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow wrote:LOL theres no such thing as antibiotic resistance

If you want to cure antibiotic resistant bacteria, all you have to do is introduce a population which outreproduces the infected bacteria

Eating fermented products, is an incredibly simple way of fighting all antibiotic resistant infections

Kefir is known to heal infections with ease

Or you use a highly adaptive broadspectrum natural antibiotic, like oregano oil which prevents bacteria from reproducing

The only thing infections are resistant to, are isolated lowspectrum pharmaceutical antibiotics



I'm looking at a bottle of Latta Russian Kefir Drinkable Yogurt 0% Fat Plain. Mix with fruit and stevia sweetener and it's a palatable low cal snack.

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 4:22 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:RedJack,

In the pre-antibiotic era about 1/3 of people who developed pneumonia died. In the flu pandemic of 1918 almost all the deaths were due to secondary bacterial pneumonia. To this day, influenza kills almost no one.


Pneumonia was considered "the old man's friend."

Blogger Elizabeth January 14, 2017 4:26 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Philalethes wrote:In this context, the frequent complaints that the Western nations (including Japan) are not reproducing at "replacement" levels make no sense to me. Why do we need more people? How many is enough?

All of the various social programs, including especially old age pensions, require a significantly larger population of working-age people than retired and disabled people. With US demographics at the point of passing the intestinal impaction of the Baby Boom (and similar population bulges elsewhere) into retirement, it will become a choice of binging in more people, or cutting retirement benefits.

That's all it's about, keeping us Boomers fat and happy.


You're right, but will third worlders be willing to pay high taxes to keep a bunch of old white people fat and happy and alive? On top of that, many of the third worlders themselves are at least partially dependent on government programs themselves.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 14, 2017 4:36 PM  

The problem of antibiotic resistance is real, present and huge. I don't bother talking about it because if you don't sound like a paranoid, apocalyptic kook, then you're understating the threat.

Call me a pollyanna but on the plus side, when even the top hospital (let alone the free clinic) can't do anything about antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea (which already exists), eventually the incentives will align with chastity again.

Slutwalks are already dead, they just don't know it yet.

Blogger Matthew Davis January 14, 2017 4:46 PM  

AB are not a magic on/off black/white instant cure. They do not kill all of the bacteria for you. They open another front in the battle waging between your immune system and the bacteria thereby increasing, sometimes dramatically, the odds your immune system will win.

This is the exact reason why antibiotic resistance develops. The most susceptible bacteria are killed by the drug and the ones that are resistant survive and reproduce. This image makes it pretty easy to understand:

https://infogalactic.com/w/images/f/f6/Antibiotic_resistance.svg

Had she been younger...had doctors tested first and gone straight for the big guns...had the doses been higher (which a younger person can better tolerate)...the outcome likely would have been different.

There are countless diseases that are more deadly for children than adults.

They have always existed. They are not "appearing rapidly." And they are not going to replace the population of bacteria for which AB are very toxic.

Genes for resistance have been around in bacteria since ancient times. The new much more resistant bacteria created by our abuse of antibiotics are definitely growing at an accelerated rate.

No. We are "dangerously close" to an increase in the relatively small number of cases where we have to rely on drugs that have severe side effects.

This is simply not true.

I do agree with Vox's points that immigration and global travel create new and unnecessary health risks. I would freeze all immigration tomorrow. And given the cesspool that India is I would terminate all travel to/from that country unless and until they stop living worse than animals.

I agree with freezing immigration from India.

But I do not agree that "time is running out" since it's not possible for this or any "super bug" bacteria to supplant the globe's bacteria population tomorrow. Or ever.

No one is proposing that one single "super bug" is going to supplant the rest of the worlds bacteria except maybe sensationalist media. If you are interested in the topic I suggest you read this:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Antimicrobial_resistance

Anonymous VFM 6184 January 14, 2017 4:53 PM  

Chinese tourist's notes on India

The images and anecdotes in this article are *appalling*.

Blogger Stephen January 14, 2017 4:55 PM  

Are antibiotics still put in animal feed? Stopping that would help.

Blogger Stephen January 14, 2017 5:07 PM  

@159.VFM How does everyone in India not die of cholera? How can you get a country of 1 billion people with hygiene practices like that? It seems impossible for people to survive like that.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd January 14, 2017 5:29 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:
Most alternative remedies are throwbacks to before modern drugs and generally work - to the extent they do - by boosting your own body's ability to deal with the problem and heal itself. So I expect they'll work as well or as poorly as they ever have.


Here is an example of that:

http://www.sciencealert.com/this-forgotten-wwi-antiseptic-could-be-the-key-to-fighting-antibiotic-resistance

Anonymous Discard January 14, 2017 6:06 PM  

120. dc sunsets: Maybe I misunderstand you, but I thought that without prescription drug laws, people would be buying whatever pills they wanted whenever they felt bad, and stop using them when they felt better. That is a prescription for breeding drug-resistant bacteria.

Anonymous Marvin Boggs January 14, 2017 6:09 PM  

""With respect, drug resistance is an inevitable mathematical/bio process, and has little to do with inappropriate use of antibiotics."

Interesting. I'm aware of the mechanisms and other related factors regarding antibiotic resistance you mentioned in your post and have often wondered if antibiotics were use appropriately 100% of the time, if there wouldn't still be a movement toward resistance on a much slower time scale. Most of the epidemiological studies I've read tend to show a direct relationship between inappropriate antibiotic consumption and the emergence and dissemination of resistant bacteria strains. Thank you for your insight."

I've often wondered if taking two antibiotics might do a better job of completely wiping out the infection entirely. There are a finite number of bacteria in any infection.

Anonymous Discard January 14, 2017 6:17 PM  

A great niece of mine went to a dental hygiene program, where she was shown a video of a Hindu street dentist. She gave me the link, and there he was, a man on a sidewalk with a pair of pliers, pulling teeth. The wrong side of the world, IMHO.

Blogger Harold January 14, 2017 6:22 PM  

95% of my patients who think they need an antibiotic don't

I here that from my doctor any time I go in and tell him I need an antibiotic. But, he doesn't apply it to me. Because the first three times I went in and told him I needed one he sent me home telling me I didn't, and two days later I was back in his office with worse symptoms. Aside from seeing him every six months because I have to go to a gatekeeper (doctor) for blood tests to monitor things that need monitoring, I don't see him unless I really, really, need to.

It's good to have a doctor who listens. Used to visit him regularly for prescription decongestants. Then, I heard about nasal irrigation, and started doing it. Once, one day, in the last 10 years I've taken an OTC decongestant; the pollen count that day was off the charts high. He had never heard of it. I took in the device I use and demonstrated for him. He says about 1/3 of his patients now do it. And it works. For most, anyway. One thing he and I agree upon. Not every treatment works for everyone. Human bodies aren't interchangeable machines.

Blogger Artisanal Toad January 14, 2017 6:22 PM  

Some have mentioned taking Vitamin C and D, but what you were never told about is intravenous ascorbic acid (IVAA).

Pull the articles by Fred Klenner, who cured a polio epidemic with it years before the Salk vaccine came out. The medical establishment completely ignored IVAA even though the news was published. Yes, they completely ignored a cure for polio because that would have killed the profits on the vaccine that was in the pipeline. It was poetic justice when Salk gave it away.

IVAA is a potent anti-viral and anti-bacterial, costs only pennies and is so effective that it's easy for the necrotic cascade of dead tissue to cause major problems if administered too fast. It takes out most cancers (won't penetrate the blood-brain barrier)and super-charges the immune system at the same time.

And I can pretty much bet that your doctor has never heard of it. Because vitamin's can't be patented and there's no profit in it.

Anonymous Discard January 14, 2017 6:26 PM  

A South African wrote that,since all the medical expertise came from the White 20%, only Whites got First World medical care. The Blacks got clean water, soap if they cared to use it, and high quality first aid. Fix a Black's broken leg? Sure. Cure his cancer? Nope.
I advocate something similar for us. A White society can carry it's own dullards and fuck-ups, but not two or three times that number, as we have with Blacks, Mexicans, and other 3rd Worlders.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 14, 2017 6:40 PM  

@135. "I still didn't read 95% of what you wrote, but I'm going to attempt a condescending attitude and hope that other people will argue your point because I haven't a clue."

Yeah, thought so. You've got literally (pun intended) no argument aside from petty insulting implications and vapid pretensions.

You're going to regret that, and I don't even have to make you, though I'd love to try if I see you again.

Blogger Cloudswrest January 14, 2017 6:45 PM  

Check out this apropos video that appeared on Twitter today. https://twitter.com/TheeCurrentYear/status/820375096258871296

Blogger Quicksilver75 January 14, 2017 6:49 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:@116 and @143 - the Ehrlich's are not mocked because every sperm is sacred or because someone wants more real estate deals. They are mocked because their dire predictions failed to materialize for reasons which were obvious beforehand to more critical thinkers. See the Simon-Ehrlich wager.

If you want a reasoned approach to issues surrounding population and resource use click here.


Your link is all Neocon boiler. Coulda been written by open borders shills like Paul Gigot, Stephen Moore or Ben Wattenberg

Am familiar with Simon, Ehrlich & Commoner arguments about population. And esp the Simon cheerleaders @ the WSJ, Economist mag & parroted by Cheap Chalupas Tyler Cowen.

Julian Simon most certainly is an 'every sperm is sacred' Utopian. Why the hell else would someone write a book "The Ultimate Resource" positing that the only limit on our development on earth is Human Ingenuity? Then he goes on to deduct that more people = more ingenuity. Tell me why we don't now have a NASA colony on Mars or why Somalia & Bangladesh don't have space stations?

The reason Ehrlich lost the bet with Simon is that his time frame for the wager was way too narrow, and that governments were willing run up trillions of dollars of debt to maintain the status quo. He wasn't aware that we are in a 100 to 120 year period of easy oil & gas that makes easy resource substitution possible. Basically Simon & Ehrlich were both open borders multiculturalists anyway who were too cowardly to point out that it is reckless personal behaviour, low IQs and dysfunctional cultures that imperil much of the world. They were both "politically correct" but serving different factions.

The whole "green revolution" relied on trading natural rigor of wild cultivars for high abundance of new versions with the caveat that they are heavily reliant on massive cheap oil inputs via fertilizer & pesticides. We do that instead of simply asking people in Islamic countries not to have 7 kids in a Harem when they are unemployed & illiterate. Cause it would be "racist" to insist on standards of behavior in exchange for foreign aid. More ominously, it is now clear that Simon & his buddy Wattenberg had ulterior motives for suppressing the population concern: they wanted to flood western countries with folks from 3rd world countries to give themselves the anti-Euro warm feelz.

Here is a funny clincher from your link-
"" Q. Is the population problem urgent?

A. Only in a few countries, and it is their problem, because they have sovereignty. People in the advanced countries can only provide technology, but adequate birth control technology has already been provided. For the world as a whole, the population problem may be important, but it is not urgent. ""

Big problem: the population problem may be limited to only a "few countries", but those countries are sending their people here, and it is a bottomless pit when you have a fertility level of 5 to 7 as in NW Africa.
That is the fatal flaw in your thinking. The world population boom is being weaponized by SJWs (& Neocons) to destroy western countries. And it was weaponized because of the cowardice of people like Julian Simon & Ben Wattenberg who wouldn't confront the problem of dysfunctional cultures because of cultMarx suppression from their peers. In the meantime, let's get back to selling more toilet paper, and building more strip malls.
Here is some reading for you-
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/

Blogger Benjamin Kraft January 14, 2017 6:53 PM  

@167. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but last I checked, I could have sworn that ascorbic acid is just the technical term for vitamin C.

Quite interesting that someone developed a viable intravenous solution of it though.

Anonymous BBGKB January 14, 2017 7:30 PM  

it will become a choice of binging in more people, or cutting retirement benefits.That's all it's about, keeping us Boomers fat and happy.

Bringing in more 3rd worlders only results in less money available as they contribute less than they cost taxpayers.

Drug resistant bacteria are appearing so rapidly we can't create new antibiotics fast enough.

Only if your goal is to save every tranny hooker in Baltimore, at a certain point a culture change will be easier than hoping for Whitey to shit out the next miracle drug. I will have to look up the post but I remember someone mentioning here that only men contributed more towards society than they take monetarily. Realize its likely only Asian and white men http://judgybitch.com/2016/08/16/reblog-research-find-that-as-a-group-only-men-pay-tax/

How does everyone in India not die of cholera?

They can end up with low grade infections, kind of like a tax upon their systems. I was actually surprised to see some preppers talk about how if you let untreated Giardia go long enough its basically just like tapeworms.

Anonymous BBGKB January 14, 2017 7:33 PM  

I could have sworn that ascorbic acid is just the technical term for vitamin C

ascorbic acid is Vit C a strong & cheap antioxidant that stays in your system for a limited time.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 14, 2017 8:09 PM  

Are antibiotics still put in animal feed? Stopping that would help.

Yes, and there are people working on that. I'm amused and pleased how they stepped back from coercion to persuasion.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 14, 2017 8:10 PM  

Hey, at least they're trying to do something about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pj4L7C2twI

Blogger bulbasaur January 14, 2017 8:52 PM  

VD: "Sooner or later, the Trump administration will have to look very seriously at denying antibiotics to everyone who cannot, or will not, abide by a strictly observed drug-taking regimen."

World leaders can uniformly agree to sanction Russia over its bellicosity. Why not similarly sanction countries for their excessive and irresponsible antibiotic use (which has arguably worse global externalities than Crimean annexation)?

Anonymous Evolyn January 14, 2017 8:56 PM  

Fixing the drug licencing regime would go a long way towards solving the problem of keeping up with evolution.

As a side note, whilst not completing antibiotics is bad, even if everyone finished their course we would still have issues.

Your gut and skin is quite the lab, so, resistant critters do turn up at random, it does not necessarily require exposure to antibiotics, maybe the resistance is a side effect of other advantages, or, you ate blue cheese (with it's own mutations happening), or, the 'dice' just rolled that way.

It's a never ending war and we will never be able to slack (unless we can change mechanisms), and the amazing thing is that we got away with not developing new antibiotics for as long as we did.

Blogger dc.sunsets January 14, 2017 10:27 PM  

Discard, I understand your point & don't know the answer. Neither prescription drug laws nor their absence solves any of these problems.

Utopia is not an option.

Blogger cheddarman January 14, 2017 10:28 PM  

We have not had a plague or major epidemic in western civilization for over 100 years or more. Public health and medicine gave us the tools to defeat them. However, since we care more about virtue signaling that self protection, public health and medicine are now loosing the battle(s).

The U.S. National Institutes of health published an article on using silver nitrate to treat antibiotic resistant bacterial infections. You can make your own silver nitrate or an equivalent medicine from silver

here is a cut and paste link for the article.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3771099/pdf/nihms-511274.pdf

Blogger Mountain Man January 14, 2017 10:55 PM  

@BBGKB

The key is to combine the D3 with K2. Without the latter the former is not effectively assimilated into your bloodstream. A slice of Gouda or Brie cheese is an easy way to get a sufficient daily dose of K2.

Blogger Artisanal Toad January 14, 2017 11:03 PM  

@172 Benjamin Kraft

Vitamin C, also known as ascorbic acid, titrated with sodium hydroxide to raise the ph to acceptable levels for injection, gets you sodium ascorbate. You can read about what it does.

http://www.oscarfalconi.com/49/
Journal of Southern Medicine and Surgery, 1949.

https://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinical_guide_1988.htm
Clinical Guide To the Use of Vitamin C

https://riordanclinic.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/89024642-web.pdf
IVAA and Cancer


@174 BGKB

Vitamin C is an antioxidant when taken orally. Taken intravenously it's an oxidizing agent. While it's a potent virucidal and bactericidal agent, it can also be quite effective at treating some cancers.

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 January 14, 2017 11:26 PM  

She went there for medical care - likely a surgery such as hip replacement - that costs about $10-15,000 in India and 2-3 million in the US. Thanks Obama care and the prior presidents who green lighted the cartel like monstrosity known as our medical system

Blogger scimitar January 15, 2017 12:32 AM  

MD here. Don't want antibiotic resistance ? Don't go to the doctor. You can't , thankfully , get antibiotics over the counter. You need a prescription by a doctor. So quit going to the doctor for minor sniffles and colds and demand antibiotics. We doctors are weak so we give antibiotics to shut patients up. Doctors are under huge pressures to have high "patient satisfaction scores" ( Press-Gainey scores) and hospital administrators are constantly up our asses about patient complaints when they don't get what they want. You can't get inappropriate antibiotics if you don't go the doctor....

Blogger wreckage January 15, 2017 12:52 AM  

The problem with replacement fertility is that declining populations have major economic and social effects, not least of which is a completely irresistible need for immigration.

Declining populations get replaced. It's simple biology.

Anonymous Discard January 15, 2017 1:46 AM  

185. wreckage: Japan has a declining population, without a completely irresistible need for immigration. Actually, White Americans do not have an irresistible need for immigration, only our Rulers do. The newcomers are a huge economic burden to the people, but a benefit only to the Rulers.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 15, 2017 1:50 AM  

@wreckage: The Japanese have resisted the Native European instinct for other-affinity.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 15, 2017 1:53 AM  

Oops by 4 minutes and thank you Discard.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT January 15, 2017 3:41 AM  

@158 - This is the exact reason why antibiotic resistance develops. The most susceptible bacteria are killed by the drug and the ones that are resistant survive and reproduce.

And in a healthy host are wiped out by white blood cells which have the upper hand after antibiotic assistance. Or are ultimately killed by longer/stronger doses of antibiotics because resistance is not Kryptonian immunity. Or some survive because no one knows any better and the patient no longer has symptoms. But they are out bred in the wild by bacteria which do not have resistance because the gene expressions which confer resistance hobble the bacteria in other ways.

We can shift the population towards resistance slightly. We're not going to create a super plague through the use of antibiotics.

The original point, which you seemed to miss, was that this woman had no real immune system left to assist. Her death would have been likely even with lesser strains. And the fact that she had a particularly resilient strain is not an indication of anything new, much less doom for the world.

Genes for resistance have been around in bacteria since ancient times. The new much more resistant bacteria created by our abuse of antibiotics are definitely growing at an accelerated rate.

No they are not. If they were there would be thousands of reported deaths from AB resistant strains. Not one or two. We've had that every year since the first year this became an "issue" presented to the public.

No. We are "dangerously close" to an increase in the relatively small number of cases where we have to rely on drugs that have severe side effects.
This is simply not true.


No, this is precisely what has been observed to date. Observation trumps theory. Observation always trumps theory. I've heard and read the theory that antibiotics were going to fail "real soon now" for well over a decade. It's not happening. Antibiotic resistance is a concern which warrants some changes to the ways in which we use antibiotics. But it is a fraction of the problem it is presented to be.

No one is proposing that one single "super bug" is going to supplant the rest of the worlds bacteria except maybe sensationalist media.

Yet that is what would have to happen for the risks to be as great as presented by the media.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT January 15, 2017 3:52 AM  

@171 - Your link is all Neocon boiler.

No, it's a rather well known and accomplished computer scientist with a B.S. in mathematics from Cal Tech discussing the numbers behind energy and resource use. If you can hand wave his research with name calling then you are way too short for this ride.

I don't care about Simon, Cowen, or the price of tea in China. None of those things have anything to do with why Ehrlich is mocked. Once again, his predictions failed. All of them. He wasn't even close. So he is considered a fool by anyone who actually cares about accuracy in models of global population and resource use.

The reason Ehrlich lost the bet with Simon is that his time frame for the wager was way too narrow,

Which means he didn't do basic research that any college student should be capable of. Why should anyone listen to him again?

He wasn't aware that we are in a 100 to 120 year period of easy oil & gas that makes easy resource substitution possible.

You also haven't done your basic research. Earth bound fossil fuel hydrocarbons are a 300-500 year resource, of which at least another 100 years worth are in the form of oil. And that's not counting the hydrocarbons trapped in the deep ocean, the Arctic circle, or Antarctica. We're never going to use all of that. We will be on fission or fusion long before that runs out. Which means Ehrlich missed his energy predictions not by 100-120 years, and not even by 500 years, but by a few billion years.

Big problem: the population problem may be limited to only a "few countries", but those countries are sending their people here, and it is a bottomless pit when you have a fertility level of 5 to 7 as in NW Africa.

Stop letting them in.

That is the fatal flaw in your thinking.

Not in my thinking. I've been anti-immigration since before I started following Vox's blog. I've only become more adamant and radical about it since discovering his blog. The west is waking up and a lot of people will have to go back.

That's not to say the third world can't act out in ways which prove to be very damaging to humanity as a whole. But that's an issue of human behavior, not resource scarcity.

Blogger wreckage January 15, 2017 4:04 AM  

@186 @187 I didn't mean irresistible to the people, but to the rulers, yes. As for Japan, we'll have to see if they can actually maintain their independence with a long term population decline. Given the porous border to the South, what do you think would happen if the US population began a sharp decline?

Blogger wreckage January 15, 2017 4:09 AM  

@190, Given that Ehrlich's work has been republished several times, and every time needed updated predictions, and even then the new predictions failed, I am deeply surprised that realists of any kind give him any credence.

Ehrlich is part of the political cartel that set out to psychologically castrate the West. Clearly even in the depths of Alt-Right land there are people susceptible to his methods.

Anonymous Discard January 15, 2017 4:30 AM  

191. wreckage: The southern border is only porous because our Rulers want it to be porous. I personally favor reducing our population to less than 200 million, and I see no reason that anyone south of the border should be able to do anything about it. We could go to the moon, but we can't manage to build a wall as effective as East Germany's?

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable January 15, 2017 5:53 AM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:No one is proposing that one single "super bug" is going to supplant the rest of the worlds bacteria except maybe sensationalist media.

Yet that is what would have to happen for the risks to be as great as presented by the media.


I don't watch TV so whatev. There will be a gradual accumulation of risks that will discourage people from going to hospitals or having extramarital sex. Don't know other assertions, don't care.

Blogger woodenavaklu January 15, 2017 7:37 AM  

For those of you concerned about antibiotics becoming ineffective you might want to take a look at MMS. The guy who stumbled across it accidentally discovered it to be effective against malaria but it turns out to be also effective against all known microbial organisms.

http://jimhumble.is/

Yes he has naysayers but it is easy to get hold of the raw materials and roll your own for very cheap prices and he tells you how to make the final product. I've tried it and it works as expected.

Anonymous FAILBOAT January 15, 2017 7:54 AM  

Lol 70% of abx go to animals, arguably, in humans, counterfeit drugs (reduced dose) are a bigger contributor to resistance than non-compliance (hi Indian biotech industry!)

Are there any lessons we can draw from 'creation microbiology' to address this plague?

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