ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2017 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Monday, February 27, 2017

A libertarian take on the Alt-Right

The Anarchist Notebook reviews the 16 Points of the Alt-Right:
Aside from free trade and perhaps some elements of nationalism, much of what comprises the Alt. Right ideology is outside of libertarianism; it neither contradicts it nor agrees with it. The goals of the Alt. Right are not mutually exclusive of those in libertarianism.

Whatever the case, I see many similar values between the two movements. The areas of disagreement, in my opinion, are secondary and not fundamental components. There is room for friendly dispute.

It is my sincere hope that both sides can engage in thoughtful conversations and work together when mutually beneficial against common enemies. Whether anyone cares to admit it or not, it has become self-evident that the Alt. Right, whatever its flaws, is trying to preserve the only kind of civilization in which libertarianism can exist at all.
While I tend to consider the Alt-Right political philosophy to be more post-libertarian than alibertarian, I do agree that libertarianism would require an Alt-Right-compatible foundation to even begin to be a practical possibility.

I found it interesting to observe that while he didn't find my anti-free trade arguments in the Tom Woods-hosted debate with Bob Murphy to be convincing, he did pick up that Murphy - and other libertarians and free traders - have come up with no answers whatsoever to the problems I, and others, particularly Ian Fletcher, have raised.

I was frankly a little mystified to see that a number of people actually concluded that Bob Murphy won that debate, when all he produced was the same free trade boilerplate that we've all known for decades. He didn't even begin to address the substantive differences between theory and practice cited. But I suppose it is difficult for people to relinquish their grasp on defining elements of their intellectual identity, which is why it's necessary for libertarians to cautiously examine the Alt-Right philosophy before they can seriously consider accepting it.

The core conflict between libertarianism and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary to preserve Western civilization and the European nations. And that is something that libertarians are going to have to accept if they are going to remain intellectually relevant in any way, because for all that the nation-state is a necessary evil, it is to be vastly preferred to the multinational state or the global state.

And those are the three options on offer at present.

I expect most libertarians to eventually gravitate to the Alt-Right, simply because the latter is both viable and coherent, while the former is not. I hope you will note that I don't say that with contempt, but rather, with regret.

Labels: ,

280 Comments:

1 – 200 of 280 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Zaklog the Great February 27, 2017 9:07 AM  

Most principled libertarians may become alt-right. I've seen a number of "libertarians" though who are just fine with the big-government bullying of SJWs when it touches an issue they like. I don't know what percentage of self-proclaimed libertarians such people are.

Blogger Resident Moron™ February 27, 2017 9:08 AM  

The regret is real. Having leaned heavily libertarian for most of my adult life, it was hard to give it up.

Anonymous VFMinion February 27, 2017 9:14 AM  

At this point I've stopped debating ancaps & left libertarians. They don't have any answers and ignore the issues created by open borders / free trade and when pressed become hostile. So it doesn't surprise me that some believe Bob Murphy won the debate.

Blogger FUCK GOOGLE February 27, 2017 9:14 AM  

@1
Those "libertarians" are better known as "globalists with weed". That's the only major difference between your average globalist and say, Gary Johnson. Gary Johnson is 100% fine with endless immigration and SJW priorities, as long as he gets his weed too.

As for other libertarians, a great many who used to be such are now alt-right. Libertarianism is not really an ideology that can be sustained when opposed by authoritarian leftists/globalists. Basically, quite a lot of libertarians became alt-right when they finally woke up to the fact that whether they like it or not, we are at war with the globalists and the authoritarian left. They can either fight to preserve a nation where something akin to libertarianism may be possible in the future, or stay detached from reality and keep talking about how borders are totally fascist.

Blogger Richard Stone February 27, 2017 9:17 AM  


"I was frankly a little mystified to see that a number of people actually concluded that Bob Murphy won that debate, when all he produced was the same free trade boilerplate that we've all known for decades. "

Many people have brushed off being against free trade as Protectonism, and sinply KNOW that does not work, arguemtns to the contrary be damned.

People naturally see their "team" as being the better debaters, as they both accept the same implied assumptions. It will take much more than a debate to eliminate that bias. It does not matter as much who they see as "won", as much as which side came out with lingering doubt they did not have before.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) February 27, 2017 9:18 AM  

A big difference between libertarianism and the alt right is that the alt right has a cultural component that's absent from libertarianism.

Blogger Wolfman at Large February 27, 2017 9:19 AM  

IMO the dividing line between left and right libertarians is in which direction you're willing to concede once you're willing forced out of the realm of pure anarcho-capitalism and have to deal with practical matters.

Left Libertarians concede points to the cultural left and really are much use for anything that "advanced herbal medicine" related. They fight the State because the state is inherently evil.

Right Libertarians seek to protect society from the state not necessarily because the state is evil but because society is good.

A person joins the Alt-Right when they come to conclusion that they cannot save the good in Society by themselves. Also the Non-aggression principle doesn't not restrict you at the tactical level if you are already under attack at the strategic level.

Blogger maniacprovost February 27, 2017 9:25 AM  

"the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary to preserve Western civilization and the European nations"

I don't necessarily think a lot of individual liberties need to be crushed. I'd have to think a bit more about it. But then, perhaps I'm more restrictive in my view of the rights of men. Privacy, for example, is not a right. Trespassing into my country is not a right. Being gainfully employed while trying to sabotage your employer for irrelevant personal politics is not a right. I consider threats just about as good as deeds, so, seriously promoting socialist ideologies is not a right, although globalism, properly defined, may be.

So essentially I don't think we need to go so far as violate anyone's civil liberties while we're deporting foreigners, hanging communists, racially profiling, and making contraceptive services available to disadvantaged women (Eugenics on Wheels).

Blogger Samuel Nock February 27, 2017 9:28 AM  

Steve Sailer's riff off of Stalin a few years back summed up the only way the philosophy could work: "Libertarianism in one country!"

Blogger Eric Mueller February 27, 2017 9:28 AM  

I d alt-right to be more coherent than libertarianism. Libertarianism is a fine ideal, but the only way for it to work is for EVERYBODY to accept it. Any system that requires people to magically change their beliefs is doomed to failure. Alt-right doesn't require that, and is practical.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 9:30 AM  

Alright... Now ask for non red-pilled person to review the sixteen-points-that-explode-your-head.

I want lulz... No lulz there... Usually libertarians are completely in favor of immigration because moneyz!

Blogger Jamie-R February 27, 2017 9:32 AM  

Too many barriers to libertarianism now, forget immigration the worst is still the money printing distorting economies. You can't take it out of nation-state's hands, all the more reason to shrink global trade or we'll pay for China's immoral recklessness. Al Gore invented the internet and China invented Al Gore. Environmental destruction is perfectly encapsulated in their disregard of all honest weights & measures.

Blogger Erynne February 27, 2017 9:34 AM  

I really liked 'The Libertarian Manifesto' by Rothbard, however, I can see now that all of the theorizing and fantasizing about a small gov't are worthless if the borders are not protected from mass immigration. Now when I see a libertarian meme about roads I feel like that's something so far down the road as to be worthless discussion. I used to think open borders would be fine without a welfare state, but I think there would still be mass migrations of peoples who are seeking a better life.

I've just started reading Churchill's History of the English-Speaking Peoples and it the origins of England are rife with one invading people supplanting another and how destructive that process was. If Britons and Saxons couldn't get along, why do people assume groups that are even more different will do any better? It really is a rejection of reality and the intellectual waste of living in an era of unprecedented economic and technological growth.

Once again, I'm glad that I was introduced to this blog because I haven't been able to get this depth of learning from anywhere else.

Anonymous hoots February 27, 2017 9:35 AM  

Libertarians, like conservatives, have wasted their efforts fighting the wrong battles in the wrong places, for questionable reasons. For a long time they've been able to take for granted the civilizational foundations that made their political stance possible. It's no longer possible to ignore the crumbling foundation. Time to wake up, grab a pike, and man the line.

Anonymous WinstonWebb February 27, 2017 9:36 AM  

Gents & Ladies, I have a hypothetical question for you in regard to individual liberties vs civilizational preservation:

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies? Why, or why not?

Thank you,

Blogger praetorian February 27, 2017 9:49 AM  

I expect most libertarians to eventually gravitate to the Alt-Right

They already have, especially in the younger generation, and this is one of the major intellectual stories of the last decade. This is why libertarianism is now comprised of confused and irritated older white guys wondering why fat, bearded dudeweedlmao left-libertarians are prancing around naked on stage at their conventions.

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies? Why, or why not?

No, not without more details anyway. Besides being unrealistic (what, are we talking about an militant atheistic regime here?) I don't see how that would be dramatically different than living under islam.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) February 27, 2017 9:52 AM  

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies? Why, or why not?

No

Blogger sykes.1 February 27, 2017 9:53 AM  

Libertarians are fundamentally blank slaters who no differences among individuals worth taking into account. That is a much deeper problem than free trade and open borders, because it justifies them.

Anonymous krymneth February 27, 2017 9:54 AM  

I'm still vaguely libertarian in the sense that I think there's a lot of stupid regulations that need to be removed, but that's definitely the add-on caramel sauce on my politics at this point, rather than the ice-cream base.

I think the question that libertarians have to ask themselves when considering the Alt-Right is, what if any hope you ever had of seeing libertarianism succeed was a hope that could only even faintly flower in the particular context of a nation, people and culture in which the soil for libertarianism was fertile? What if it only works in a homogeneous environment that never fully developed anyhow, and which we are now heading away from with great speed and vigor?

What defense does libertarianism offer against the influx of a whole bunch of people who do not want it?

They are certainly culturally against it, and one does at least have to wonder if they are genetically against it.

Radical anarchists at least try to address that question. I find their answers infeasible, but at least they try. Libertarians, at least generally, don't address how to keep their system stable. The plan generally seems to be that it'll be so wonderful that people will naturally all realize that it's the right thing to do. Even assuming that libertarians are correct that it is the rationally-correct answer for the sake of argument, this still seems to assume a level of rationality from the rest of humanity not on display. Even if one could wave a magic wand and manifest Libertarian paradise in America, I can't see it lasting very long with our current peoples and cultures.

If libertarianism can only thrive in a certain culture and a certain nation, then given the very high likelihood that we do not currently have that certain culture and nation, the rational libertarian answer is to do what is necessary to recreate that culture and nation. What does that plan look like? Who's got that plan?

Anonymous krymneth February 27, 2017 10:02 AM  

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies? Why, or why not?

The question contains so many embedded assumptions in it that to unpack it enough to answer is infeasible. You'd need to be much more specific about the question. Two huge particulars are "Are we talking about my religion specifically, or 'all religions'?", and a far more subtle one, "Who are you granting the power to define 'religion', and by what means are they able to enforce this definition?"

A poll among the Dread Ilk about whether progressivism is a religion, and a poll from progressives about whether progressivism is a religion would have radically different outcomes. Who decides?

Those social systems that have attempted to remove religion in the world have themselves essentially become ersatz religions in their place. As with most ideas about how to structure society, this one has in fact been tried and from our 2017 perspective, we are not limited to theorizing about how it might look when we can simply look and see. It didn't go well. Unless you like corpses, and being a corpse, in which case it went great.

Anonymous User February 27, 2017 10:02 AM  

It's an observable fact that only group action can secure liberty. There is really no such thing as "individual" liberty which means people who talk about it are trying to live out ego fantasies not seriously discuss social organization.

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 10:07 AM  

A slight hijack:

Demographics...

As Vox said on his darkstream the other day, Europe is NOT worse off than the US.

Looking here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Ethnic-groups

Most of Europe is 80%+ white/Caucasian with significant portion above 90% (note that some nations such as France ban the collection of racial data) and most of the foreigners / minorities are heavily concentrated in specific areas of the major urban areas.

The US is listed as about 72% to 79% white BUT, the US census uses a very broad term so you have to drill down. Actual European descendant whites are about 60% of the US population. The other 12% - 19% of “white” are Hispanic and Arab/North African “white”.

“The United States Census Bureau defines White people as those "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa”

Ethnicity by county for the US:
https://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/c2kbr-35.pdf (see page 8 for map)

The US has 3 large obvious ethnic divisions. The north central/north east of the county is white / European descendant. The south east is heavily black, and the south central / south west is heavily Mexican / Latino.

Blogger Durandel Almiras February 27, 2017 10:11 AM  

I was Misean Libertarian, and found this blog a decade ago because of Lew Rockwell's daily. You still called yourself a variance of libertarian I think at the time, though you pointed out that you had broken a bit away in thought. Anyway, over the decade, I've journeyed along with you and many of the Ilk to the Alt-Right conclusion. I would not be surprised if many long time readers were Libertarian inclined initially and are now Alt-Right.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 10:13 AM  

Libertarians should ask themselves:

What beliefs are compatible and mantain our system stable?
How much freedom of action should people have?
How much freedom to move people have?
What traditions and values are compatible with our system?
What kind of social structures are compatible with our system?
How much dissent can the system take?

If the Alt-Right is correct about humans than Libertarianism is wrong and is Utopia. Unfortunately.

Blogger Lazarus February 27, 2017 10:14 AM  

WinstonWebb wrote:Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies? Why, or why not?


5And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their reward. 6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard.…

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 10:14 AM  

On free trade....

One challenge that is rarely discussed is that of international corporations. It is ini their fundamental interest to game nations against one another for their own financial benefit.
Given the significant financial influence on international corporations there are inherently opposed to any sort of non globalist system, as any non globalist system will impede their ability to leverage nations against one another for profit.
Any successful nationalistic system must have controls in place to prevent international corporations from hijacking the nations interest through financial influence.

Perhaps the easiest way to to do that is to ban corporate political engagement of any sort/ donations/ political speech, etc. The nation and people would still have to be constantly vigilant.

Blogger Durandel Almiras February 27, 2017 10:16 AM  

My own walking away was that I concluded Libertarianism is the utopic pipe dream of well off whites who live in 90+% white enclaves. Of course they think everyone they know could accept Libertarian principles and ethics, they haven't been anywhere near the ghettos. Libertarianims simply did not have an answer to how to deal with those who would oppose and conquer a Libertarian state other than "private militaries", and using housing prices and HOAs to keep undesirables out.

In other words, a mostly white, gated community, ad infinitum. Myopic to say the least.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 10:18 AM  

Always wandered about the whole American Ancestry... Aren't all Americans Europeans in Disguise (joke...) I mean when does the English man starts having American ancestry instead of English?

Anonymous Bowman February 27, 2017 10:21 AM  

We are seeing the exact same BS with libertarian / ancap movements that what happened with liberalism.
Weak and perverted minds progressively (sic) destroy it. Undertone & remove the good parts, and expand & create the evil ones.
They give us no choice but to be crusaders.

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 10:24 AM  

@27,

Or your hypothetical community / nation / state must be extremely territorial and aggressively so. Promptly and definitively engaging any interloper. The rattlesnake defense per se. the society would have to make the cost of interloping so high no one would ever consider it but the society must continually demonstrate that ti will follow through on its threats.

Still, no such libertarian flavor of society is likely.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 10:24 AM  

Libertarianism here in Brazil is all about hating the awful Federal Government. It is to produce Libertarians here, but you know where there are more Libertarians... You guessed it, where there are more Whites

I mean people with Direct European descent.

Blogger RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow February 27, 2017 10:25 AM  

Libertarianism without nationalism is a death sentence

In the same way the red pill, game & pua without nationalism descend into degeneracy

In the same way religion without nationalism is a descent into degeneracy & stagnation, the number one mistake of christianity, without a serious focus on nationalism, christianity, along with islam & catholicism are ticking death sentences into degeneracy & leftist horseshit

Without an ethnic identity & pride in your skin & race, you're a death sentence into degeneracy ... oh yea as a bonus, you're women become whores with a penchant for thugs & barbaric scum

Blogger RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow February 27, 2017 10:26 AM  


Libertarianism without nationalism is a death sentence

In the same way the red pill, game & pua without nationalism descend into degeneracy

In the same way religion without nationalism is a descent into degeneracy & stagnation, the number one mistake of christianity, without a serious focus on nationalism, christianity, along with islam & catholicism are ticking death sentences into degeneracy & leftist horseshit

Without an ethnic identity & pride in your skin & race, you're a death sentence into degeneracy ... oh yea as a bonus, you're women become whores with a penchant for thugs & barbaric scum

Anonymous BrerFox February 27, 2017 10:29 AM  

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies? Why, or why not?

As an atheist, I'd have no issue submitting to a Christian state religion. Perhaps this is because a Christian would rather try to save my soul than murder me?

Anonymous ZhukovG February 27, 2017 10:30 AM  

I am still a Nationalist Libertarian, but the Nation(People) must come first.

There is no place for Libertarian thought outside of a Secure, Homogeneous, Ethno-State where the dominant Culture values principles of Individual Liberty.

Blogger SB Wright February 27, 2017 10:31 AM  

I'm not familiar with the Anarchist Notebook, but if it is reflective of a significant segment of libertarian-minded people than it is interesting to see the recognition of common ground and common enemies with the Alt-Right. The final sentence quoted especially nails it.

"I was frankly a little mystified to see that a number of people actually concluded that Bob Murphy won that debate, when all he produced was the same free trade boilerplate that we've all known for decades."

My recollection of that debate puts this down to at least two things. 1) Your position was not the "smart people consensus" view, so as the challenger you needed a decisive win over Bob's champion position to win over even neutral parties. You got to air your points, but the format didn't provide the opportunity for you to give more than a sketch of your objections. 2) Your presentation of the material. You sounded uncomfortable and as if you were reading a speech you weren't familiar with straight from a cue card. Contrasted with Bob's relatively smooth and flowing presentation of his side, this probably affected people's perception of the strength of your position.

Blogger JP February 27, 2017 10:34 AM  

Libertarianism only works for people who don't need to be kept on a tight leash. Ironically those same people could make even communism work.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 10:34 AM  

@32

The answer is two-fold, basically Catholicism and might a certain extent Christianity believes in a distinction Religious/Secular, and Christians believe we ought to forgive.

Of course Doxis doesn't necessarily means Praxis.

Blogger JP February 27, 2017 10:37 AM  

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies

Nope. I want to be able to pray in public if I feel like it. Secularism just doesn't appeal to me because it's a poor imitation of the Real Thing.

Anonymous Casey February 27, 2017 10:41 AM  

During one discussion on the Ron Paul forums everyone was speaking in glowing terms aboput how well the Free State Project in New Hampshire was doing.

I pointed out that New Hampshire is 94% Caucasian and got banned from the forum for all eternity for stating an inconvenient fact.

Libertarians are autistic clowns. Fuck them very much.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 27, 2017 10:41 AM  

Libertarian philosophy is Utopian. It appeals to intellectuals who revile the insanity inherent in Leftism.

As such, it was a polite alternative during a period of pervasive belief in fantasy.

As we roll over from the Universalist and Unlimited-Resources fantasies that characterized the last 50, 100 and 500 years, those who were libertarians will also lose the Universalist underpinnings of their beliefs.

Chief among these is Blank Slate. As DNA/Heredity/HBD become dominant, libertarians will face that only a certain, small facet of Mankind can even imagine living in a relatively libertarian world.

They will move to Alt-Right (or just Right.) I'm living proof of that.

Just wait until more of those Ivory Tower libertarians discover the joys of being unemployable, and they watch as the state they want to see erode does so amidst skyrocketing chaos, crime and danger.

We're on a path toward very serious authoritarianism, and we'll LIKE it. (I'm not saying that's GREAT, I'm saying it is inevitable due to the deep hole in which we're now in, as a consequence of Holy Homogeneous Diversity.)

Everything is cyclical.

Blogger Eric Mueller February 27, 2017 10:43 AM  

I remember a meme from somewhere before 2008 that captures the failure of the average libertarian to communicate his views:

"Normal" person: So what are you then?
libertarian: I'm a libertarian.
"Normal" person: Oh, what is that?
libertarian: Well, I believe drugs should be le...
"Normal" person: Get the fuck away from me.

People like Tom Woods are substantially better at communicating libertarian values.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 27, 2017 10:45 AM  

@9 Steve Sailer's riff off of Stalin a few years back summed up the only way the philosophy could work: "Libertarianism in one country!"

Was it a riff on Stalin or Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson?"

Blogger Some Dude February 27, 2017 10:47 AM  

Libertarians cant imagine predators and fraudsters and quacks because most libertarians are virginal autist engineering majors.

Predation is not common among whites and east asians. But its certainly the rule everywhere else and especially an open border with africa.

At no point in its history was ayn rand viable even on a foundational level.

Rand was deranged in her personal life abd lived in welfare.

The alt right works but it needs to drop milton autsim economics. Socialism economics is optimal in homogenous high trust high empathy countries. Otherwise you get plutocracy and a bunch of aristrocrats like latin america. In turn these landed elites so to speak get flipped to the predatory hegemon of the day.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 27, 2017 10:52 AM  

@40 small-l libertarianism went off the rails once the Reason-rag/Jeff Tucker faction started trying to merge it back into Leftism by decrying "brutalist" libertarians.

This also ignores the canary in the coal mine of the LP. "Libertarian Politics" could not be more of an oxymoron, illustrating the depth of cognitive dissonance across that spectrum.

Cognitive dissonance builds up until it's untenable. Then it resolves (at least partly) in one direction or another. The coming direction will be deemed "pragmatism" but it will walk, swim and quack like authoritarianism.

You can't have peace coincident with weakness. Chaos will drive the public to favor central authority, which will grow strong.

Lest we forget, Russians under Stalin largely approved of the USSR's system. No political system EXISTS without popular support, the Dominant Narrative defines what will be supported and our Dominant Narrative is in the process of changing.

If people think Trump is authoritarian, I aver they "ain't seen nuthin' yet."

Blogger YIH February 27, 2017 11:01 AM  

http://ericpetersautos.com/
Though the site's obvious topic is cars, Eric Peters is a hardcore, dyed-in-the-wool libertarian in his political philosophy (and doesn't come off as a Reason magazine ''hoist your freak flag high!'' type).
A couple of years ago I would have agreed with him in his political POV. Apparently he lives in rural (and probably all-White) VA where such a political system appears realistic.
And that's the problem, living somewhere with some vibrancy makes me realize that kind of libertarianism is about as realistic as unicorns. Simply because non-Whites will push their racial (or religious) agenda; Handouts for Africans, sharia law for moslims, or as the former Prez of Mexico once said, ''Where there is a Mexican, there is Mexico'' - and while that may be fine and dandy for Fred Reed, I'm not him, nor do I want to live in Mexico.
Zman put it best recently; ''Detroit with libertarianism would be Lagos, Nigeria''. Actually, it would probably be worse, more like Somalia or Chicago.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 27, 2017 11:01 AM  

Go with the statement above about Libertarians being blank slaters, probably nothing good comes from that.

If I were in any debate that would be the first question, are you a blank slater. If so then that person will be a kook with a kook religion chasing ists, isms and phobias with the rest of the dipshits.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 11:02 AM  

As DC flips the switch, FrankenHitler raises!

"It's Alive, it's Alive!!!"

"Save all peoples..."

Flips the switch back...

"Gotta rework the narrative sum'moar"

--------------

*my bad for all the words I am missing... Iphone and fast thinking... Sometimes I think but don't write, but think I wrote*

Anonymous BBGKB February 27, 2017 11:02 AM  

the alt right is that the alt right has a cultural component that's absent from libertarianism.

Here are some libertarian cultural festivals https://www.theweedblog.com/five-marijuana-events-you-should-attend-this-year/

I don't necessarily think a lot of individual liberties need to be crushed.

Gay jews hate Bibi because he took away their right to cheap arab rent boy free trade.

used to think open borders would be fine without a welfare state, but I think there would still be mass migrations...seeking a better life

Better to live in a cardboard shack near rich whites than live in a cardboard shack in their homeland. Mexican culture includes littering and being stabby.

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies?

Does that mean not giving copies of your sermons to dyke mayors? http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/14/city-houston-demands-pastors-turn-over-sermons.html

I concluded Libertarianism is the utopic pipe dream of well off whites who live in 90+% white enclaves

With east Asians being the largest minority.

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 11:06 AM  

Modern liberalism is suicidal. Modern liberalism as practiced makes the least successful members of society the most reproductivly successful.
Modern social systems encourage the reproduction of those who cannot successfully compete in society and discourage the most successful in society from reproducing. Anyone who has ever bred livestock or other annals knows how that ends.
Bringing this up to the progressive liberals blows their mind as well. their only response is usually "your a racists" or some variant there of.

Anonymous BBGKB February 27, 2017 11:09 AM  

Nexit next on the plate https://mishtalk.com/2017/02/25/dutch-parliament-to-debate-leaving-the-eurozone-nexit-on-the-way/

TRUMP gun EO http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/02/john-boch/proposed-executive-order-designating-rifles-militia-purposes/

a) “Militia” has the meaning given the term in Title 10, Section 311 of the United States Code to include the Unorganized Militia, as well as the meaning given to the term “Militia” under equivalent State statutes.

Blogger Martin February 27, 2017 11:12 AM  

I think libertarian thinking has alot of good soloutions.

For example, dealing with illegals is best done by retracting the protection of the law for life and property. This would make the illegal helpless against even his own community. The statist aproach to mass deportation is to have hired police to hunt down millions of people, it is just not practicle.

Further, i view the state as an evil. Albeit a necessary evil. I think that is an essential attitude to have any chance of standing against an expanding state.

Blogger tz February 27, 2017 11:25 AM  

Tom Woods is even calling for partition - secession.
The alt-right cuts liberties with a scalpel, but generally is leave you alone, so is compatible with libertarianism. The left wants to micromanage your life more than The Moral Majority did.

The worst alt-right authoritarian will be a smaller government, still tempered by christian and constitutional principles. What they will crush are the dyscivic elements. Iraq under Saddam or Libya under Quadaffi - is it better now without government?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 11:30 AM  

@Samuel Nock
'Steve Sailer's riff off of Stalin a few years back summed up the only way the philosophy could work: "Libertarianism in one country!"'

Exactly. 95% of libertarians are White. As a political philosophy, it has minimal appeal to other groups. Libertarians overwhelmingly support unlimited non-White immigration. Somehow, this does not seem to be a combination likely to result in political success.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 27, 2017 11:30 AM  

Libertarianism is a utopian bong-dream. They can't quite seem to grasp that there's nothing free about a rigged market. The folks with the counterfeiting machinery win the anarchy-capitalist monopoly board, and (surprise!) they're all globalists.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 11:32 AM  

@FUCK GOOGLE
"Basically, quite a lot of libertarians became alt-right when they finally woke up"

Most of the TRS goys are former lolbertarians.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 11:34 AM  

@WinstonWebb
"Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies?"

Perhaps a fairer hypothetical would involve a purge of ALL of the desert tribes.

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 11:36 AM  

The core conflict between libertarianism and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary to preserve Western civilization and the European nations.

As in reconquista 2.0?

Blogger tz February 27, 2017 11:42 AM  

95% white. So when Somalia had no state, they didn't want to move there and set up their utopia for some unknown reason. Maybe the Somali? Isn't the twin cities in MN going ancap?

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 11:43 AM  

Francis @52

It comes back to the blank slate assumption that has been drilled into modern society. We have to purge that assumption from the social consciousness. Egalitarianism is an extension of the blank slate theory. We may all be equal before god but that is not the case in this realm of existence.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 11:44 AM  

@Grayman

"Demographics..."

Well put. One minor quibble-- I don't find "Hispanic" to be a useful term. It's deliberately designed to designate a vague and "socially-constructed" group. Perhaps "mestizo" would be better?

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 11:46 AM  

I would describe alt-right as libertarianism mixed in with what I call "Heinleinian" conservatism. A theme common to all of Heinlein's novels was the notion that freedom required competence. Only a competent people are capable of freedom (e.g. being libertarian). The intent of the alt-right is to create a Western civilization comprised by and for competent individuals. To define a nation or a people on any basis other than competence is superfluous.

The question for alt-right people is how to create the nation of competent people.

The question for libertarians is what liberties do we have to give up to accomplish the above goal.

Why not call alt-right Heinleinian conservatism?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 11:46 AM  

@Eduardo

"If the Alt-Right is correct about humans than Libertarianism is wrong and is Utopia."

Libertarianism is similar to communism in its professed belief in the perfect ability of man, and the achievability of utopia/ paradise in this world.

Blogger tz February 27, 2017 11:47 AM  

Tom Woods and Bob Murphy did "interview with a zombie" on Nullification, with bob cracking Raaaaycisssmm, Slaaayverrrry, etc.
The free trade debate is the mirror:
Ricarrrrdoooh! Compaaahrahtiiiv Advanaantaaage! Taaarrriiifs!

Anonymous BluePony February 27, 2017 11:47 AM  

"A big difference between libertarianism and the alt right is that the alt right has a cultural component that's absent from libertarianism."

That's one of the things that always kept me from fully going libertarian. There was no sense of community or pulling together to accomplish more and push society forward.

At the risk of sounding LARPish, there's a scene in Season 2 of Man In The High Castle where a high ranking Reich officer talks about accomplishing great things as a unified society. They're planning on harnessing the entire Medditerranian Sea and turning the Sahara Desert into a gigantic farmland. He also talks about plans for colonizing space.

Then I flip over to the news, and it's 30 minutes of which confused kid can use which thrice damned bathroom, and I just want to fuck off and go live in a Tibetan monastery.

I'm not looking for a new Reich, but, FFS, is it too much to ask for a society that accomplishes anything anymore?

Look, I love me some President Trump, but, sorry "The_Donald" group, this is *NOT* the best timeline by far.

Anonymous aegis-1080 February 27, 2017 11:50 AM  

One of the big causes of the Trump train is that a lot of people realized that libertarianism is just goony roleplaying, useless on any real context.

Oh, and any ideology that birthed an asshole like Alan Greenspan deserves to be laughed out of the room.

Blogger Orville February 27, 2017 11:50 AM  

The core conflict between libertarianism and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary to preserve Western civilization and the European nations.

While I would love small government that stays out of people's personal business, that is not possible in an existential fight with the left-libtards. They used the surveillance state against us, and we must use it against them to root them out. The White House sent out an email survey this morning asking for input, and I strongly recommended continuing to reach out directly to the citizens, and disembowling the MSM, and RICO investigations against Soros and his ilk.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 27, 2017 11:52 AM  

The core conflict between libertarianism and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary

In order to have a government that isn't heavy-handed, the people need to be self-governing of their individual liberties. We haven't had a people like that for a while. Even large segments of Founder's Stock haven't been taught civic virtues.

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies?

Not necessary, unless you're talking to atheists. Religious freedom has one basic requirement, that practitioners of one religion not use violence or the government to try and stop people practicing another religion. Islam fails the first test, and Atheism fails the second. They're the only two religions we'd need to regulate.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 27, 2017 11:53 AM  

@15. Winston, absolutely not. That you even think that such a solution is possible, let alone desirable, tells us exactly where you stand on the issue.

So we're going to let them practice Islam in public in their countries, but no one can be seen to practice Christianity in ours? Let me be clear, any form of atheism/secularism/humanism is a vainglory-trap, and Will result, quite rapidly, in an even worse outcome than allowing Islam control would.

@25. Lazarus, those who deny Christ before men, he will deny before His Father.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 27, 2017 11:55 AM  

Aside from free trade and perhaps some elements of nationalism, much of what comprises the Alt. Right ideology is outside of libertarianism; it neither contradicts it nor agrees with it.

Libertarianism rests on the blank slate assumption, the alt-Right rejects blank slatism. So the two don't even share the same basic idea space. The immivasion by colonists who uniformly support unlimited state power should have demonstrated to libertoonies how wrong their premise is.

But smart people are no better at examining their premises than anyone else. The 16 points are alien to libertarians because there are premises underlying that they have never even thought about.

What if the closest thing to Libertopia that ever existed was the Scot-Irish culture of the Appalachian hills circa the 18th century up to 1812 or so? One culture, a skein of distantly related bloodlines, one religion. Government consisting of an elected judge, an elected sheriff, selected church elders, a church pastor selected from the elders, and one lawbook called the Bible.

What if Libertopia is only possible in a homogenous population drawn from inside the Hajnal line, practicing Protestant Christianity? Most Liberteenies would reject that, because "Muh Weed!" and "Raycism!". But what if it is true, what does that imply for the Free Staters, the immivasion, Dieversity, and globalism?

Alt-Right to Libertarians: examine your premises, because the ones you have now are false.

Blogger Cicatrizatic February 27, 2017 11:55 AM  

@19. krymneth. “The plan generally seems to be that it'll be so wonderful that people will naturally all realize that it's the right thing to do. Even assuming that libertarians are correct that it is the rationally-correct answer for the sake of argument, this still seems to assume a level of rationality from the rest of humanity not on display. Even if one could wave a magic wand and manifest Libertarian paradise in America, I can't see it lasting very long with our current peoples and cultures.”

I think there is a sort of autistic solipsism on display by many libertarians of this type. They find libertarianism to be so philosophically compelling that they can’t imagine that any other group, when exposed to it under the proper conditions (which itself is a whole separate problem altogether), will not ultimately adopt it. They’re essentially projecting the course of their intellectual development onto the rest of the world.

The same goes for economists on many levels. The micro assumptions about human rationality made by economic theory are largely a projection of how economists, or people like them, operate.

Most people gravitate to an ideology and proceed to rationalize away any apparent conflicts. There are very few who are willing to engage in a close, thorough, and continually open-ended inquiry into a matter.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 27, 2017 11:59 AM  

The core conflict between libertarianism and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary to preserve Western civilization and the European nations.

This. Klantifas show up to riot, smash stuff up, beat people down, because "muh Free Speech", that particular liberty gets suspended for a while for everyone in the area. That particular liberty gets suspended for a lot longer in terms of a few individuals. Because the alternative is the anarcho-tyranny seen in Berkeley to shut Milo's free speech down.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 12:01 PM  

@Casey
"I pointed out that New Hampshire is 94% Caucasian and got banned."

For lolbertarians, as for the Left, implicit whiteness is the height of sophistication, yet merely noticing this obvious fact is a thought crime.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 27, 2017 12:03 PM  

I don't know, I've listened to Christopher Cantwell talk about the libertarian movement lately and I think that the movement is doomed. It's nothing more than the refuge for Marxist losers who don't want to be part of the mainstream bifactional ruling party.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 27, 2017 12:05 PM  

@60. kurt, I wouldn't characterize Heinlein as even conservative, let alone Alt-Right.

Blogger YIH February 27, 2017 12:06 PM  

I found the Zman post mentioned in the previous comment:
The Day At The DMV. We've all been there, the experience ain't too different regardless of which US state it is. But here are the relevant follow-up comments from him:
Libertarians are on firm ground when they talk about economics. Free markets are better than alternatives. The trouble is people are not moist robots. Humans are willing to accept inefficiencies in markets in exchange for non-tangible benefits.

Libertarians also make the same mistake as liberals with regards to the chain of causality. They think it is Economics -> Politics -> Culture, but in reality it is Biology -> Culture -> Politics -> Economics. It’s why imposing Western institutions on Africa failed. The people and their culture were not built for Western politics.
and
That’s not the point. The point is libertarianism, at least the current manifestation of it, gets the chain of causality wrong. Remove the state from Detroit and you are not getting the libertarian paradise you imagine. You get Lagos, if you are lucky.
The thing many libertarians don't really get is there will eventually be disputes between parties and they will need some sort of referee to decide them. Who will that be? A ''government'' (courts, judges, juries) or ''a private entity'' (arbitration). Then who enforces it? A government employee (cop) or a privately hired thug (la cosa nostra comes to mind).
''Nature abhors a vacuum'' and libertarianism in it's purest sense is just that, a vacuum - something will rush in to fill it.

Blogger VD February 27, 2017 12:08 PM  

Why not call alt-right Heinleinian conservatism?

Because it isn't. It's not even close. It completely ignores the whole nationalistic and Western elements.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 12:09 PM  

The big problem is that people don't perceive a particular society as a result of the people involved in it. Sure outside pressures can force a population to make certain bad decisions... You know, like allowing people to purge whoever they want Martin! But the thing is, people don't believe, it is not part of their Beliefs that France is built and maintained by French, that everything in there is an expression of French Culture. People are so far stuck into revolutionary mentality they just think about the Future France made by Future surrender monkeys eating frog (XD! I can't help it) that is whatever the heck they have in their heads, usually based on the current popular culture being pushed in the Mass Media.

@59 Francis

It would still be vague... What do you mean exactly by Mixed/Mestizo/Mestiço word? Someone not entirely white? Or someone that has ancestry in two groups? Latin-americans? Mexicans?

@60

No no Kurt, putting names like that seems to kmply that all Heinlein thinks is Alt-Right, you have to think Stupid dude. You are being too librarian. Trying to get books in the right shelve, next to the right books.

You are appealing to a culture that is not shared by most people, so your message will be learned with several misconceptions.

@61 Francis

Yep! That is my general view of it, when it is just criticism of government-as-a-institution screw ups it is awesome, then you move to Libertarian Society, and you realised that it is just Idiocracy with Snoop Dogg Holding a bong and no Terry Crews in sight

Anonymous Matatan February 27, 2017 12:09 PM  

No.
Islam is not a religion, but a totalitarian collectivist supremacist ideology. It is a political, economic, cultural and also a religious system, so it can't be compared to other religions based on the religious part alone. It is fundamentally incompatible and hostile to Western civilization.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 27, 2017 12:10 PM  

@72. Simply put, Libertarianism cannot possibly create the only variety of society in which it can even be dreamt of.

OpenID doktorjeep February 27, 2017 12:11 PM  

In early 2013 I was at some republican convention whereby we select precinct officers... or something... I'm not actually sure.
Back then I was hardcore libertarian, free floating form, on a scale of 1 to 10, I was Autist.


As usual, in dealing with the state level GOP, we were screwed supporting Ron Paul in 2008, then in 2012 too. And in this large convention for the party where the county selects officers and chairs and all that crap, our county was so eager to be corrupt, the corrupt baby-raping hacks from the nearby county even came up to help. The smoky-backrooms that make sure we can't have anything nice, that ensure we only get candidate who either can't win or if they do win, just keep the chair warm for the "globo-homo" agenda and then blow a house majority on "tough on crime" or on the federal level, "some war somewhere", where clearly and presently outsourcing and ensuring that the stranglehold that one county had on the state could spread to other counties so the entire thing could be run by these corrupt hacks who either had something held over them (do what we say or else) or were surely dark and evil in their own hearts and fully volunteering. But they were not the majority. In the state level GOP the people who show up to these things are just as much sheep and deluded as your as a Trump protester. Most of them gray-haired and deluded by mainstream news and TV their entire lives, and now their brains gone. "Oh you one of those Ron Paul people who want to destroy America!".


So in the usual midst of "oh you can't have a camera", "oh you are not allowed to see this list/rules/slate/agenda/ballots/etc", "oh the votes are being counted in the next room but you are not allowed to go in there", and "oh this meeting is closed" crap, a thought entered my head. It was so clear, it might have well been the voice of God. It was abrupt, clear, fast, and I was silent for the remainder of that day. My mind was stilled, and I didn't further care about the crap I was, once more as was before, neck deep in.

That thought was this:
"It's going to take more than libertarian ideas to save this country".


I silently churned this thought in my head a bit. It told me the present course would not work, and even if it did, it was not enough.
I shared my thought with the people I arrived with, and they said they were starting to feel the same way.


The answer would edge closer in Dark Enlightenment - the realization that freedom is NOT popular and most people are beneath it.

The Alt-right would come later.

Anonymous gxg February 27, 2017 12:11 PM  

The White House sent out an email survey this morning asking for input, and I strongly recommended continuing to reach out directly to the citizens, and disembowling the MSM, and RICO investigations against Soros and his ilk.

Great suggestions. I completed the same survey, and asked him to build the wall, end birthright citizenship, and stop importing people whose belief systems were incompatible with our constitution.

Anonymous Matatan February 27, 2017 12:13 PM  

Islam needs to be removed from Western society, without any concession from Christianity and unconditionally

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 27, 2017 12:13 PM  

@77. It IS a religion, but one that encompasses all facets of society, including politics, as you've said about.

And yes, it is antithetical to western civ.

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 12:15 PM  

Benjamin Kraft wrote:@60. kurt, I wouldn't characterize Heinlein as even conservative, let alone Alt-Right.

Well then, how would you characterize his world-view?

His world-view did vary between "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" (libertarian) to "Starship Troopers" (somewhat fascistic) all the way to "Stranger in a Strange Land" (free love??). Nevertheless, the common thread through out all of these novels was the notion that a functional society is comprised by and for the competent. He believed in competence and liberty, in that order.

I consider this world-view to be the very definition of Western civilization, or at least the anglosphere part of it. What label would you ascribe to this world-view?

You know, when I think of alt-right, I think of Singapore. You guys are basically following in the footsteps of Lee Kuan Yew (and I say that as a good thing).

Blogger Silly But True February 27, 2017 12:15 PM  

I'd ask what's the difference but as long as there is some minimal notion of "honor among thieves" I'd take La Casa Nostra over Ruby Ridge / Waco FBI/ATF hit squads; nevermind CIA droning Americans without due process in countries we are not at war with or in.

Blogger Eric Mueller February 27, 2017 12:18 PM  

Starship Troopers is the only Heinlein book I've read. As I recall, the only people allowed to vote and hold office had earned their franchise through a period of federal service. Others were welcome to live in the society, work, and such, but were not citizens and could not vote.

People bitch about "we need term limits", but nothing is more dangerous than a lame duck politician with no accountability. What we need to do is start taking the vote away from those with the least to lose and most to gain.

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 12:23 PM  

True libertarianism is a nice theory, in which everything is private property, but would be completely incapable of handling the threat from billionaire globalists to seize control through financial means.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 27, 2017 12:23 PM  

His world-view did vary between "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" (libertarian) to "Starship Troopers" (somewhat fascistic) all the way to "Stranger in a Strange Land" (free love??).

Y'know, it's possible for someone to write about a society that doesn't jive with their own personal world-view.

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 12:24 PM  

VD wrote:Why not call alt-right Heinleinian conservatism?

Because it isn't. It's not even close. It completely ignores the whole nationalistic and Western elements.


Well isn't the purpose of using nationalism and other criteria to separate populations into groups of different functionality is to allow the more competent peoples to separate themselves from the less competent? A central tenet of alt-right is group differences in various traits (cognitive ability, executive function, etc.) between various peoples and, as the logical corollary, the limiting or complete elimination of migration of peoples between different societies. It stands to reason that different cultural values and labels are really just proxies for different levels of competence (cognitive ability, executive function) between peoples.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 27, 2017 12:24 PM  

WinstonWebb wrote:Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies? Why, or why not?

No. My society is a Christian society. Mohammedans do not belong here, and driving them out is non-negotiable. Openly practicing Christianity in a Christian society is also non-negotiable.

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 12:25 PM  

@85 Starship Troopers hit some really wrong notes, of which that was one..Giving only government thugs the vote, as if they had ever made a positive contribution to society.

Blogger Nick S February 27, 2017 12:25 PM  

@15
No

@16, @20, @25, @32, @37, @47, & @55
I find it odd that there are still so many people who are completely clueless regarding the degree of organization and the highly concerted efforts employed by literal civilization jihadist. It usually doesn't even factor into their thinking at all in the observe and orient phase of considerations. The typical libertarians as well as the typical liberals are just a useful idiots destined to be sacrificial pawns for those with incredibly long time preferences (Islam). I hope we don't have to crush them to get to the real enemy, but I don't see any way around the willfully ignorant if they insist on maintaining their idiotic obstinance.

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 12:27 PM  

BTW, Heinlein's world-view is very much a western one, with its emphasis on technological innovation, free markets, individualism, and above all, pioneering in the Frederick Jackson Turner context. It seems to me that it is these values that define western civilization and make it unique from all others. Thus, any defense of western civilization should promote this world-view. You guys seem to disagree.

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 12:30 PM  

@84 I'd ask what's the difference but as long as there is some minimal notion of "honor among thieves" I'd take La Casa Nostra over Ruby Ridge / Waco FBI/ATF hit squads; nevermind CIA droning Americans without due process in countries we are not at war with or in.

The key concept here is Taleb's "skin in the game"...the mafia has skin in the game, because they don't want to kill or seriously injure the host. The same was true for hereditary nobility...Whereas, globalists and their individual (immune) government thugs really have little or no skin in your society's survival. Or at least they see it that way....so they are far worse than the mafia or an elite whose wealth is based on the land.

Anonymous The Question February 27, 2017 12:31 PM  

Vox Day,

Thank you for the linkage and the response.

"The core conflict between libertarianism and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary to preserve Western civilization and the European nations. And that is something that libertarians are going to have to accept if they are going to remain intellectually relevant in any way, because for all that the nation-state is a necessary evil, it is to be vastly preferred to the multinational state or the global state.

And those are the three options on offer at present.

I expect most libertarians to eventually gravitate to the Alt-Right, simply because the latter is both viable and coherent, while the former is not. I hope you will note that I don't say that with contempt, but rather, with regret."

I have reached a similar conclusion, with similar regret. However painful this conversation may be for libertarians to have, it's something that needs to happen. History makes it clear that life choices during times such as these are not simple.

Robert E. Lee fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War despite being anti-secession and anti-slavery, because the alternative was either participating in or passively tolerating the military invasion of his home state, neither of which were morally acceptable options for him.

I have no doubt that libertarians will face a similarly complicated situation in the near future, but the current mindset is the equivalent to thinking the North wouldn't have invaded and slavery would have ended if Robert E. Lee had just stayed home.

Such thinking is how we become irrelevant to those facing the same moral conundrum.

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 12:32 PM  

The core conflict between libertarianism and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary to preserve Western civilization and the European nations.

Exactly which civil liberties do you advocate "crushing" in your pursuit of protecting western civilization>

Anonymous basementhomebrewer February 27, 2017 12:33 PM  

Some Dude wrote:Libertarians cant imagine predators and fraudsters and quacks because most libertarians are virginal autist engineering majors.

Predation is not common among whites and east asians. But its certainly the rule everywhere else and especially an open border with africa.

At no point in its history was ayn rand viable even on a foundational level.

Rand was deranged in her personal life abd lived in welfare.

The alt right works but it needs to drop milton autsim economics. Socialism economics is optimal in homogenous high trust high empathy countries. Otherwise you get plutocracy and a bunch of aristrocrats like latin america. In turn these landed elites so to speak get flipped to the predatory hegemon of the day.


Rand was very good at identifying the problems and our foes. She picked up their motivations and how they would act perfectly. Her alternative to their system is where she falls down hard.

Your second statement makes no sense. If you already live in a "homogenous high trust high empathy country" then socialism is not needed. Individual charity will exist and the government does not need to enforce it. The free market works very well in that environment.

Where it falls down is when there is a multicultural, low trust, low morality society. That is when any economic system is going to result in predation and vast inefficiencies occurring around rules/laws enforcement.

Anonymous SaltHarvest February 27, 2017 12:33 PM  

Durandel Almiras wrote:My own walking away was that I concluded Libertarianism is the utopic pipe dream of well off whites who live in 90+% white enclaves. Of course they think everyone they know could accept Libertarian principles and ethics, they haven't been anywhere near the ghettos. Libertarianims simply did not have an answer to how to deal with those who would oppose and conquer a Libertarian state other than "private militaries", and using housing prices and HOAs to keep undesirables out.

In other words, a mostly white, gated community, ad infinitum. Myopic to say the least.


I suspect that in practice, "private militaries" will become gangs and cartels that splinter a weakened state into smaller factions that still perform the depredations of the state libertarians are eager to escape.

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 12:43 PM  

Guys, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this alt-right stuff.

The only analogy I can think of is Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore. You want to create a semi-authoritarian market society where the competent (defined in HBD terms as western white people) rule, and where cultural emphasis is place on competence and achievement.

You guys want to create the "white" western version of Singapore.

At least that's what it looks like from my perspective.

Blogger Dirk Manly February 27, 2017 12:43 PM  

Detroit without libertarianism is already worse than Chicago, or Somalia, or Lagos, Nigeria. I know -- I drive through Detroit nearly every day.

Blogger Dirk Manly February 27, 2017 12:47 PM  

"Like fire, government is a day gerous servant."

Anonymous #8601 February 27, 2017 12:49 PM  

Libertarianism doesn't work for the same reason Communism doesn't work.

MPAI

The Alt-Right recognizes MPAI.

I was going to suggest the above would make a nice 17th Point but I think it's already covered in Point #3 (about the Alt Right being in line with reality).

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 12:52 PM  

Jim Goad totally nails Globalism....http://takimag.com/article/whats_so_bad_about_globalism_jim_goad/page_2#axzz4ZuPrVUSv

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 12:54 PM  

@98 No, we don't want to create Singapore. We want to recreate American society in 1912.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 12:55 PM  

@Cicatrizatic
"I think there is a sort of autistic solipsism on display by many libertarians of this type."

Good way to put it. This, plus the deeply embedded, unexamined blank-slatist assumptions, goes a long way towards explaining the libertarian viewpoint.

In a larger sense, most modernist thinkers of almost any stripe seem to have a mental "year zero," top-down model of societal/ political/ economic structures as something that is rationally designed and built from the ground up. This is in part related to the irrational allegiance to the blank slate, but is also reflective of the typical logical positivist mode of thought. This view is something that has visceral appeal to many modernists, but does not really reflect how societal institutions typically come about in the real world. Attempts to remake societies according to someone's "rational" model of how they "should" work tend to have results like those seen in the (((Russian))) Revolution, the Khmer Rouge, or (at best) the French Revolution.

They are societal creationists, when in fact social structures typically evolve, and in fact, over the long term, have co-evolve with genes to fit a particular group.

OpenID doktorjeep February 27, 2017 12:56 PM  

If any kind of economics comes from the alt-right, I would hope it's a kind of "National Capitalism". No it's not intended to be the opposition to National Socialism (no need to stare into that abyss).

National Capitalism would be primarily free market.

Until people like Soros, Bezos, Bloomberg, etc. show up. Meaning that "You can make all the money you want, but if you use your money to destroy your country and/or buy influence to destroy competition, we drop a hammer on your balls".

Cue libertarian autistic screeching....

Libertarians have one fatal flaw: they fail to realize that politics is downstream of culture. You can't let degeneracy stand. This is why "legalized drugs" in a democracy (even a representative one, for you "but muh republic" crowd because how do you select representatives? My majority vote!) is a bad idea. The minute you have people on drugs voting for the direction of a nation, you are one generation away from "getting high" being the only right you will have remaining. Drug heads and other r-select vermin-brained are best living under a King who has a better vested interest in keeping the lights on and the water running.

Anonymous VFM #6306 February 27, 2017 12:56 PM  

@98

kurt9 wrote:Guys, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this alt-right stuff.

The only analogy I can think of is Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore. You want to create a semi-authoritarian market society where the competent (defined in HBD terms as western white people) rule, and where cultural emphasis is place on competence and achievement.

You guys want to create the "white" western version of Singapore.

At least that's what it looks like from my perspective.


Change your perspective, kurt9

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 1:00 PM  

@Kurt

Kurt let's get the nice folks here to help us. Here, let's try to describe what WE think a Alt-Right town would be like, the points we think are important. Here we go.

I see a city with big thick walls like the ones who were so common in Sumeria, Babylon, Ancient Greece and Roman Empire, who goes in and out is entirely controlled, and most if not all foreigners are not welcome and those who do are welcome have no say about the Future of the city. The city is one race, and people are taught from an early age about Western Civilization and all schools made by the people themselves teach children to engage in civilizatorial behavior.

There that would be my voew of how it would be like...

Your turn Kurt, and please y'all do correct me if I am wrong.

Blogger Johnny February 27, 2017 1:07 PM  

pyrrhus wrote:@85 Starship Troopers hit some really wrong notes, of which that was one..Giving only government thugs the vote, as if they had ever made a positive contribution to society.

If the way a society is held together is through military force, then there is a fairness in having the troopers as the primary beneficiaries. That is the way most all societies used to work. To the victor goes the spoils. The major exception was when a king or potentate kept the goodies for himself and managed to stiff the troopers.

Modern war depends on hardware and support so much that the people who win include the people who contribute the resources. Now days they are the ones who usually get stiffed, left out of the benefits package.

Also, the reason the French Revolution was a success (for a while) was because the rifle democratized weaponry. The rifle armed troopers became more important then the elite horse warrior knights.

Blogger Sheila4g February 27, 2017 1:08 PM  

VD: "The core conflict between libertarianism and the Alt-Right is that the Alt-Right is perfectly willing to crush individual liberties if that is necessary to preserve Western civilization and the European nations."

That necessary limitation or ultimate crushing of certain perceived individual liberties is something I began pondering after reading the Covington books. Any other objections to those books aside, I found the author's hypothetical White Northwest homeland to have a certain authoritarian streak, admittedly necessitated because people have become so cut off from their historic roots and common sense. If there's a perceived need to enforce a sense of nationhood and tradition and the value in homogeneity to insure the continuation of European people and civilization, then the author argues it's warranted. I found myself agreeing. My somewhat libertarian son is appalled by this, because he mistrusts giving that sort of authority to anyone. I counter that if the survival of western civilization necessites it, then I'm willing to concede quite a bit of perceived "individual rights."

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 1:14 PM  

https://www.menofthewest.net/the-hard-right-plan-for-victory/

I like this idea!

I see a city with big thick walls like the ones who were so common in Sumeria, Babylon, Ancient Greece and Roman Empire, who goes in and out is entirely controlled, and most if not all foreigners are not welcome and those who do are welcome have no say about the Future of the city. The city is one race, and people are taught from an early age about Western Civilization and all schools made by the people themselves teach children to engage in civilizatorial behavior.

There that would be my voew of how it would be like...

Your turn Kurt, and please y'all do correct me if I am wrong.


So, you want to limit immigration to the West. I've got no problem with this.

By extension, I assume the "crushing" of civil liberties by the alt-right is referring mainly to limiting or even ending further immigration to the West, as well as a potential repatriation of recent immigrants, what our esteemed host calls reconquista ver. 2.0.

Let's just say I'm not necessarily opposed to any of this. You might even convince me that its the right thing to do. Nevertheless, I still call myself a "libertarian", if not an open-borders one.

Anonymous Rien February 27, 2017 1:14 PM  

The elephant in the room is IQ.

Below 90 you cannot have a democracy.

And I suspect that below 110-120 you cannot have a libertarian society.

Blogger Pteronarcyd February 27, 2017 1:15 PM  

Legitimate Libertarianism is a Right-wing ideology. The Libertarian Party, unfortunately, seems to have been captured by the Left. Mainstream Conservatism continues to be Neoconservative (ie, Alt Left). The only refuge for those on the Right is the Paleconservative/Alt Right.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) February 27, 2017 1:17 PM  

This is why "legalized drugs" in a democracy (even a representative one, for you "but muh republic" crowd because how do you select representatives? My majority vote!) is a bad idea. The minute you have people on drugs voting for the direction of a nation, you are one generation away from "getting high" being the only right you will have remaining. Drug heads and other r-select vermin-brained are best living under a King who has a better vested interest in keeping the lights on and the water running.

1. Alcohol is a legal drug.

2. The War on Drugs has been a total failure.

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 1:18 PM  

@ 108 Phyrrus & Johnny

Large standing armies, as has been pointe dour before are problematic as by their very nature will be populated with the brutes you refer to. The core premise is sound though. Requiring a member of society to have “skin in the game” before having a say in that society. It would be similar to saying that you must not receive government benefits AND must pay a net income tax greater than 0 in order to vote in America.
Having a say in a society without “skin in the game” is an inherent conflict of interest. Having a say in society should be a privilege earned not assumed.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 1:26 PM  

@Eduardo
"It would still be vague... What do you mean exactly by Mixed/Mestizo/Mestiço word?"

That's secondary. You can always argue about precisely how much Indio blood makes one a mestizo, and where you draw the line. Population groupings are not geometry; they will always be, to a degree, statistical categories that blur into each other at the edges. The important thing is to recognize genetic heritage as significant. As it stands now, "Hispanic" is a category that completely lacks any kind of internal coherence. A black Cuban, a Mexican of pure Spanish descent, a mestizo, a pure Indio (often speaking only a tribal language, not Spanish)-- all are "Hispanic." Even a Sephardic Jew who claims that his family was thrown out of Spain in 1492, and has never been back since, is Hispanic (that was an affirmative action court case).

To put it another way-- the term involves an implicit denial of the importance of genetic heritage. It assumes the validity of the blank slate.

Blogger Cicatrizatic February 27, 2017 1:28 PM  

@Francis Parker Yockey"

"They are societal creationists, when in fact social structures typically evolve, and in fact, over the long term, have co-evolve with genes to fit a particular group."

Yes, agreed. We are beginning the exit of a society based on "societal creationist" ideologies and moving into a phase of (re)-discovery of the underlying foundations of human society. The transition is sure to be both exhilarating and painful.

Blogger YIH February 27, 2017 1:30 PM  

Here's where the car of 'libertarianism' crashes headlong into the brick wall of reality.
You say you're for legalizing prostitution, a la Nevada; She gets the cash, he gets the sex, no harm, no foul, it's all good.
What if a wealthy pedo wants a rent boy? Ponies us $22 million, parents sign a legally binding Non Disclosure Agreement. Preposterous, you say? Insane, you say?
Actually happened, I say.
If MILO wanted to literally sell his butt at whatever age, who's to say no?

Blogger praetorian February 27, 2017 1:34 PM  

One thing that is impossible to ignore once you see it is that formalized post WW2 libertarianism is very heavily jewish.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) February 27, 2017 1:38 PM  

One thing that is impossible to ignore once you see it is that formalized post WW2 libertarianism is very heavily jewish.

Is there any area of formalized economic, political, or legal theory that isn't heavily Jewish?

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 1:42 PM  

Reconquista 2.0

The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that there are 13 million based on census data and a Bear Stearns study from 2005 estimated the illegal immigrant population at 20 million based on remittances. The current influx of additional illegal immigrants is estimated at 700,000 to 1,000,000/ year.
On top of that we have about 100,000 muslin “refugees” imported per year
https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/
If we take the refugees back to 2000, and round for ease that about 1.5 million Muslim refugees.

Moving even 1/3 of the Mexican/Latino/south American illegals back into Mexico guarantees Mexico is a failed state. Do to both the civil unrest, as well as the 20 billion/yr Mexico will no longer receive in remittances from the illegals in the US. You are not going to drive all of those illegals back into Mexico with economic policies. They are better off homeless in NYC than in a failed Mexican state that doesn’t want them. Economic policies will stem the tide of 700,000 illegals per year coming in but active police force will be needed to actually remove a population that size.

Also keep in mind that those 20 million illegals make up about 6% of the population. 6% is about the % of colonists who actively engaged the British in the American Revolution and won. While the colonists had active popular support of 30% - 50% of the population, this still suggests that anywhere the local % of the population is significantly Hispanic (legal or otherwise), the process of removing illegals could become very messy.

Anonymous krymneth February 27, 2017 1:43 PM  

Heinlein, when it really comes down to it, is probably someone who thinks he's a libertine anarchist (not just libertarian), with that attitude fundamentally birthed from him living in Western Civilization at one of its heights, allowing him to subconsciously take that as a given.

Yes, a very smart person living at Western Civ's height could get a lot of mileage out of an individualistic Will to Power and live as he chooses, and perhaps fancy himself able to carry that out without Western Civ there backing him up. But it's no way to actually order a society.

(In this case, I am speaking to his actual views from those cases where he spoke about them directly, not ones inferred from his stories.)

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 27, 2017 1:48 PM  

kurt9 wrote:Exactly which civil liberties do you advocate "crushing" in your pursuit of protecting western civilization

Western Civ is the only civilization which recognizes the concept of individual liberties. So, we crush those we must to save the rest, or we lose Western Civ and we lose ALL the individual liberties, and we lose the very idea of individual liberties.

Practically, I think we must crush the libertines, not the liberties. We will lose the ``right'' of foreigners to immigrate without let or hindrance, and we will lose the right to be perverse and depraved in public. I think that might be enough to save Western Civ.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 1:49 PM  

@basementhomebrewer

"Rand was very good at identifying the problems and our foes."

(((Rand))) was very good at identifying the need for ethnonationalism in one particular country, and only that country.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 27, 2017 1:52 PM  

Josh (the gayest thing here) wrote:1. Alcohol is a legal drug.

2. The War on Drugs has been a total failure.


Drugs are a social problem. A society which tolerates drug abuse will not tolerate laws which prohibit drug abuse, and a society which does not tolerate drug abuse will not need those laws.

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 1:54 PM  

Once again to Vox's point about Europe being more realistic, even if the media doesn't portray it that way...


But Mr Calvar, 60, warned there is evidence that radical Right-wing French groups have been massing arms in preparation for their own attacks on mosques and synagogues.
‘I think we will win against terrorism,’ Mr Calvar said, but predicted the ‘confrontation between the extreme Right and the Muslim world’, adding: ‘We’re on the verge of a civil war. I think this confrontation is going to happen. One or two more attacks and it will take place. It is up to us to anticipate and stop all those groups who would trigger clashes.’
The closed inquiry was held on May 24, but Mr Calvar’s dramatic comments were leaked to French media yesterday. He said: ‘Where is the spark going to come from that will light the powder, transforming France into an uncontrollable country where groups take up arms and hand out their own justice? Who sees a crumbling country where violence and vengeance alternates between two camps, where the spiral of attacks does not stop?


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3685561/France-verge-civil-war-sparked-mass-sexual-assault-women-migrants-intelligence-chief-warns.html#ixzz4Zug5O9ka

Blogger Elder Son February 27, 2017 1:54 PM  

I'm pretty that those founding dead old white guys, when they mentioned religion, meant the various flavors of Christianity kind. Not the Muslim kind. Or any other kind of religion.

Blogger Michael Neal February 27, 2017 1:55 PM  

A big part of the solution to immigration is removing government benefits for anyone who is not a citizen and cracking down on employers of illegals, huge civil penalties. So long as there is incentive they will come. Border enforcement is important but its only a small part of the puzzle.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 1:58 PM  

@Josh
"The War on Drugs has been a total failure"

So has The War on Murder. And The War on Robbery. And The War on Speeding.

Legalize 'em all, I say. It's the only way.

Blogger justaguy February 27, 2017 2:00 PM  

Maybe I’m not far enough to the anarchist side of a libertarian, but I would like someone to explore what “individual” rights need to be crushed by the Alt-right. As many of the Alt-right came there from a libertarian background, I am not sure how crushing this is.

The rights of a nation-state versus the individual is one area I see, as many libertarians do not really believe in a nation with borders and any rights—meaning they are the anarchist that do not believe the state has rights that they individually do not give them. So borders, tariffs, restrictions to trade, illegal items at borders etc. Of course, if one accepts that groups form a government for protections that the individual cannot provide, one has to take certain things with it—traditionally that has meant borders, laws, and imposed morals.

The borders and laws can be and has been debated easily, but the moral aspect is where I see the Alt-right expanding the debate. As I understand the 16 points, they force something like a western set of morals (or at least something that works) upon society. I am unsure here of the reasoning, believing that if the government is not tyrannical and neutral then allowing freedom will lead to many childless older cat ladies and broken old men, but also those with vibrant societies and families, according to the choices they made. However, this path also leads to utopianism and following unicorns and rainbows as how does one get the government to be neutral?

Imposing Western morals because they work sounds like something Burke would say and did. Is the Alt-right just old-fashioned conservatism?

Blogger Melampus the Seer February 27, 2017 2:03 PM  

Libertarianism in one country.

Anonymous BBGKB February 27, 2017 2:05 PM  

Grayman Moving even 1/3 of the Mexican/Latino/south American illegals back into Mexico guarantees Mexico is a failed state

If Mexico is not a failed state please give what definition you use for Failed State Identity?

What if a wealthy pedo wants a rent boy? Ponies us $22 million

Ben Stein paid less to adopt a blond boy.

6% is about the % of colonists who actively engaged the British in the American Revolution and won

Those 6% didn't need welafare/food stamps to support themselves. Even leftist whites don't want to spend their own money supporting DieVerseCity

1. Alcohol is a legal drug. 2. The War on Drugs has been a total failure.

3. Libertarians can only score on drug addicts.

Detroit without libertarianism is already worse than Chicago, or Somalia, or Lagos, Nigeria. I know -- I drive through Detroit nearly every day.

Why would you drive through Detroit every day? I say this as someone who worked at hospitals that if I was shot in the parking lot of, I would ask the ambulance to take me elsewhere so I wouldn't be caught dead there.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy February 27, 2017 2:05 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:"Like fire, government is a day gerous servant."
Nice speech wreck ignition soft wear.

I'm seeing a lot of that lately.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 2:06 PM  

@Josh
"Is there any area of formalized economic, political, or legal theory that isn't heavily Jewish?"

National socialism. Of course, as every one knows, it's the evilest evil ever. Proving that any formalized theory that is not heavily Jewish is very bad. QED.

Blogger Elder Son February 27, 2017 2:10 PM  

You don't need to legalize drugs. You just need to de-illegalize it.

Anonymous Phantasmic February 27, 2017 2:13 PM  

I had always been reluctant to call myself libertarian. At first I thought it was just my individualist nature holding me back from identifying with a group, but I now think I always had a vague feeling that something was missing from the libertarian ideology.

Later I called myself a classical liberal in the (mistaken) belief that this label better identified me as someone whose political views aligned closely with those of the founding fathers. Classical liberal comes with the downside of always having to follow up with an explanation of etymologies and outline what core beliefs you hold to lackwits, defeating the purpose of a label in first place. More often than not it still results in odd looks from people who can't seem to reconcile "classical" and modern "liberalism (progressivism)". And even that still felt like it was fundamentally lacking. I now realize what was lacking was my own knowledge of the philosophy of the founders and the will to acknowledge fundamental truths about human nature.

What both lack is this willingness to accept human nature and incorporate it into a working model in favor of "if onlys". I had been guilty of this for far longer than I would like to admit. I knew full well the problems of assuming that most people will do the right thing in their own interests rather than pursuing their own interests at the expense of anything else. I just didn't want to allow it to influence my thinking.

My stumble upon the Alt Right found me struggling to figure out how I reconcile my belief that government is a necessary evil, that inevitably leads to restrictions in fundamental liberties and the understanding that shying away from the power of government means you will be beholden to those willing to use it for nefarious ends.

I found myself at a precipice, from which only one path leads forward. It is not a nice or safe path, and I sorely wish it did not need to be taken.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 27, 2017 2:17 PM  

@Michael Neal
"A big part of the solution to immigration is removing government benefits for anyone who is not a citizen and cracking down on employers"

Require proof of legal residence for remittances. Prioritize high-profile individuals. Featured in the legacy media as an illegal alien sob story? Go to the top of the list. Pro-illegal alien demonstration? Sounds like a target-rich environment.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 2:17 PM  

@Francis

Now that I think about the fact that there are several Descendent from Europeans throughout Latin-America. Yes Mestizo is a good name. Mixed seems... Nazi talk XD.

@Kurt

Yes! The Idea is to control borders, but also to MAINTAIN Western Civilization. You see Libertarianism usually falls more to the side of Blank Slate or Human Re-Enginnering, but the Alt-Right doesn't Believe that, for them your RACE is your Civilizational Destiny.

Basically, Africa Sucks because of Africans...

Blogger Danby February 27, 2017 2:20 PM  

Kurt9 said:
,Guys, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this alt-right stuff.

The only analogy I can think of is Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore. You want to create a semi-authoritarian market society where the competent (defined in HBD terms as western white people) rule, and where cultural emphasis is place on competence and achievement.

You guys want to create the "white" western version of Singapore.


Kurt, you're really not getting it.
It's not about "competence". It's about compatibility.
The base idea is that genetic inheritance determines an awful lot of a person's personality, things like aggression, compliance, honestly, sexual drive, sexual behavior, what sorts of things you find irritating or appealing, etc.
Cultures develop around the genetic inheritance of the members of that society, so that not only does the culture best reflect the genetics of the population, the population becomes better suited to that culture.
Which is why I'm more comfortable in England than in Germany, and much more comfortable in Germany than in Brazil, and even more comfortable in Brazil than in Zaire.
All we want is the ability reclaim the society to which we are best suited, and the society that is best suited to us.
I would agree with the poster above who placed the archetype for that society to the US between 1890 and 1916. Some may place it at other dates. The point is that we have lost something vitally important in the transition to the modern world, and we want it back.

Alt-Right is not an attempt to remake society to better fit a theoretical view of what a society should be. It's a war to reclaim our birthright.

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 2:23 PM  

@131 BBKGB

Mexico has a provisionally functioning government. Push 20 million illegals back into mexico and it becomes a Mexican version of Somalia. At that point the Drug cartels blatantly take over to the point that mexico becomes more or less a tribal state.

I'm not saying we cant or shouldn't remove the 20 million invaders we have allowed in, but such an action will have very real consequences we should be prepared for. We will need that wall....

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 2:25 PM  

Actually the Government can be used as a coordinated action to control borders and provide the people with the necessary resources (deemed at the time and variates from people to people). Of course no group is perfectly homogenous so it is inevitable that people in government might start to privilege their group. that is why you need checks and balances... and lot of angry gun owners.

Technically there is nothing necessarily incompatible with wanting government off your life and defending your City/State/Country/Planet O_O! You see it is like they are in two different categories.

Blogger mrparabolic February 27, 2017 2:26 PM  

Former libertarian here. Now I'm alt-lite on the outside / alt-west on the inside.

I miss the days when liberty seemed feasible. Stupid leftists have to ruin everything.

Anonymous Urban II February 27, 2017 2:29 PM  

Libertarianism is the tails side of the same liberal coin.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 2:32 PM  

Marxism is all about destroying Western Cvilization.

It says so very openly for 100 years ... hmmm

Anonymous amenia4ever February 27, 2017 2:35 PM  

It amazes me as to how many of us libertarians have slowly been influenced by the alt-right, myself included.

We see the shortcomings of free-trade, "capitalism", etc but can we go as far as the Dark Enlightenment in terms of dealing with the shortcomings of "democracy?"

Yet, I must admit, I'm tired of constantly losing every damn culture war of the last 50 years. I'm also tired of being forced into some moral high ground that the left doesn't abide by themselves. Apparently "Nazis" don't deserve rights.

"Civil rights" for them and none for us. All of Milo's tour stops have proven that.

Anonymous Trump Democrat February 27, 2017 2:37 PM  

Good people should work together and cooperate towards a massive purging of all the vast amount of undesirables and useless that heavily burden the American population. I would start with the democratic party and hollywood. Life is valuable but if you are able enough to be making a worthwhile contribution to the country and you are not, then its not in the country's best interest that you remain alive. People need to quickly find a way to make a worthwhile and or a more worthwhile contribution to the country. Many things are being put up with that shouldn't be.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 2:43 PM  

@144 amenia foreva!

Actually you do see that both sides aren't so different in their beliefs of themselves right?

You see them as evil people that must be stopped and they think the same about you. Everybody is a savior in this war.

Personally I think there is NO Democracy where you have people who desire to destroy the City inside the walls.

That is why traditional Right-Wing people are worthless as combatants, they are stuck in the whole MARKET OF IDEAS... while they are in trenches fighting for their existence. GIF

Blogger Silly But True February 27, 2017 2:44 PM  

@Grayman,
If they can't keep things on their side, I'm fine with Operation Juster Cause.

See if cartels in 2017 fare any better against howitzers:
http://www.history.army.mil/documents/panama/jcpic/pics/7527_24a.jpg

It would probably not behoove them to pick that fight.

Blogger tz February 27, 2017 2:45 PM  

Libertarianism is how to correctly divide up the pinhead dance-floor to maximize the number of Angels desiring to disco.

Would you be willing to practice your own religion in secret of it meant a purge of Islam from your own societies?

Note you commit a fundamental error - "SECRET", not "PRIVATE". I would say yes, secret, on the condition that you completely give up both the government and corporate surveillance apparatus so I could "secretly" use online bible-tools linked to from search engines.

But I assume by "secret", you will have either government or bounty hunters trying to discover my secrets, paid informers, etc.

@72 Christopher Cantwell who has a podcast. Other than the profanity, he seems spot on.

This is why I'd describe myself as Alt-Right (-west) rather than Libertarian now. Lee Kwan Yu's observation. The danger of wealthy minorities in a democracy. The majority will vote to rob them (calling it taxation).

Counterpunch notes if you hate Trump you should have voted for Ron Paul

Note that even ubercuck Glenn Beck hated Ron Paul's supporters, though he was better than Romney on all points.

Ron Paul shows multiple sides of the problem. First, in 2012, people would rather go conventional and the machine apparatus anointed Romney (like the current Dem machine anointed Perez - The donor $pice must flow). And the left really didn't want a smaller government, the point was to control your life, impose California on Kansas. Then the "intellectual libertarians" said his campaign should have done more "preaching to the choir" than outreach videos (You can find podcasts where libertarians suggest if the ads were even more abstract and insular he would have done better - from people who can't get elected to their HOA board).

But Cuckservatives only pretend to play fair and nice. The GOPe did to Paul what the DEMe did to Sanders.

@98 - Excellent observation. But I think the US in 1960 had problems, but was much more like Yew's Singapore. We made the same mistake in pushing women to get careers and degrees over husbands and kids.

Blogger tz February 27, 2017 2:47 PM  

@99 Southfield freeway?
Perhaps they should give them a leg up by relocating all the Somali there. (Though I would expect it to redefine "black on black" crime).

Blogger Cail Corishev February 27, 2017 2:51 PM  

You guys want to create the "white" western version of Singapore.

More like Mayberry.

Consider Otis. For those who never saw the show, Otis was the town drunk. He was married and gainfully employed, but he spent every weekend drunk as a skunk, so he would lock himself in the town jail at night so he wouldn't hurt himself or cause trouble.

An authoritarian society would ban Otis from drinking. A libertarian society would let him drink, but wouldn't let him use the town's resources (the jail cell), so he'd be on his own. Maybe he'd spend his weekends driving around and get killed or run someone over.

But in Mayberry, allowance was made for his idiosyncracy, as long as it was basically harmless. They drew the line one time when he got in a fight with his wife and tried to hit her with a leg of lamb, though. That time he got jailed for real.

Mayberry also had moonshiners who were left alone as long as they kept their wares to themselves, and other examples of "colorful" people who were still able to fit in. It wasn't authoritarian or libertarian; it was just life among people with a closely shared culture. When everyone's part of the same extended family, as they are in a small town like that, they can put limits on each other without being authoritarian, and give each other elbow room without being libertardian. A nation is a larger, more extended family, but the same concepts can apply.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 27, 2017 2:54 PM  

Grayman
Moving even 1/3 of the Mexican/Latino/south American illegals back into Mexico guarantees Mexico is a failed state. Do to both the civil unrest, as well as the 20 billion/yr Mexico will no longer receive in remittances from the illegals in the US.

Tax remittances at 10% then increase that by 1% per year to wean Mexico off of them.

You are not going to drive all of those illegals back into Mexico with economic policies. They are better off homeless in NYC than in a failed Mexican state that doesn’t want them.

It's easier to be homeless in Veracruz than in Nueva York.
They have to go back. If they take some ideas back with them that changes Mexican culture, all the better.

As for the cartels I would like to see the US regain control of its own land starting with the national forests in Arizona and California. There are places miles and miles from the border that are unsafe to hike or camp in because of cartel operations.

Blogger seeingsights February 27, 2017 2:59 PM  

The great classical liberal Milton Friedman said that you can have immigration, or you can have a welfare state, but you can't have both. That point seems to be lost on libertarians.

Blogger tz February 27, 2017 3:01 PM  

Stefan Molyneux's last caller on libertarains and Open Borders I think nailed the problem. In the face of all the practical problems, the response is "But private property!".

In a Tom Woods comment section, I noted it would only work if you piled up dead bodies, or skeletons, or heads on posts with the sniper holes visible - even on all five children and their mother. A "no trespassing sign" is NOT a barrier, no more than "gun free zone". It is hard enough when they're literate, but how do you prevent illiterate 80 IQ third worlders and their brood from crossing? If Libertarians are willing to do the bloody wetwork required, I'm all for it but they don't seem to consider what "private security" entails. There are already private ranches (Screech LJWs! it would require eminent domain!) on the border used as trash dumps and sewers, and there would likely be enough militia members willing to do target practice to secure the "private property".

In this Libertarians advocate far more warlike bloody violence than the Alt-Right, albeit indirectly.

Technically they don't advocate open borders, but private property itself suffices, yet it would take the justification of "tresspassers will be shot on sight, even toddlers" more than the Abortion Holocaust (A woman, even though negligent, has the right of deathly eviction).

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 3:03 PM  

@108 If you have a small government society with a Militia, it makes sense to give those who serve in it a vote, subject to good behavior. But someone who is unable to serve in the militia, but also makes a contribution, such as raising a family or running a business, is also crucial to that society.
No society can be held together very long by force alone, as numerous dictatorships have shown.

Blogger Lovekraft February 27, 2017 3:03 PM  

Take this conference on health that was hijacked by LGBT activists. Would anything get done in an alt-right world with the possibility that every meeting could be derailed?

The alt-right has the challenge of being firm and focused to where it can push forward, while also remaining flexible and inviting to not appear authoritarian.

Blogger Lovekraft February 27, 2017 3:03 PM  

http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/27/threatening-violence-trans-activists-expel-un-pc-research-medical-conference/#.WLR_0ingPNg.twitter

Blogger tz February 27, 2017 3:18 PM  

@111 - technically, you can have a democracy, but it is far more difficult and requires indoctrination and virtue. Lewis at the end of part 1 of Abolition of Man notes that the passions, properly ordered, control the behavior far more than philosophy. IQ85s with chests that would limit things do better than IQ125s without.

It also has to be run by the cognitive elite.

@114 - given drones and other electronics and such, it seems "large sitting armies".

@117 - As I try to point out, the Market is AMORAL and is efficient, not just (I won't go into fair). Either you put the NAP above the market (where voluntary exchanges that violate 3rd parties are banned) or below it (where people pay to be under the NAP).

---

I've noticed Asians are both smarter and more conformist than whites so even their culture cannot support libertarian ideas (or they would not matter given the conformity - clones that all want the same thing).

@129 - Liberties crushed? No-fault divorce, hooking up and the rest of the sexual hypergamy Bang! stuff. Hoppe/Block slave contracts. Allowing bankruptcy (incl. student loans). Eminent domain in the original intent (public roads). Pornographic or obscene "gay pride" parades.

An example, my utilities are run by city hall by my (literal) neighbors. Libertarians with religious zeal would prefer a multinational holding company with difficult phone tree to a call center in Bangalore to take my complaints, with outsourcing the fix with a delay of several days instead of me walking into the building and talking with my neighbor. It might be a few pennies cheaper per month, and frustration is abstract.

Blogger Doom February 27, 2017 3:20 PM  

Well, libertarianism was sort of your forst forray into alt politics. First loves and all. I had some hopes for it too, perhaps with the Tea Party as well. Both fell, easily. I never fully got on board, big or little L or TP. Just supported, to a degree. Nor did I do all sorts of equations, logarithms, or such, as you did. Neither ever quite fit, or even became something that one could suit themselves to, as I saw things.

They both, for a time, had energy. Neither ever truly created direction or purpose, not for me. I think both had the difficulty of overcoming morality as secular devices. Without a basis in faith, they had to flounder. Probably more of a problem than other things, as I see things. If it's not Christian, in a wider spectrum sort that can include most orthodox faithful of the various names, it won't work to unite the West.

Blogger tz February 27, 2017 3:23 PM  

Friedman is wrong in that you can't even have the welfare state. And freedom.

On the margin, even if disabled, you could work or sit home and collect benefits, you aren't likely to work even if you are white, Christian, etc., you will rationalize and justify why you can't really work.

This goes back to St. Paul - though the don't work, don't eat was more sexist in its American expression, a man had to chop firewood not only for himself but a widow (why can't the widow chop her own ;).

Blogger praetorian February 27, 2017 3:28 PM  

Is there any area of formalized economic, political, or legal theory that isn't heavily Jewish?

Yes.

Catholic social theory. Pre-WW2 darwinian sociology. Georgeist economics. Distributist economics. Schmittian legal thought. Etc.

I get where you are coming from (DA JOOOOS) but it is impossible to ignore the monomaniacal, messianic and, ironically, totalitarian tendencies in a lot of libertarian thinking.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) February 27, 2017 3:30 PM  


The great classical liberal Milton Friedman said that you can have immigration, or you can have a welfare state, but you can't have both. That point seems to be lost on libertarians.


Libertarians oppose the welfare state.

Anonymous Grayman February 27, 2017 3:33 PM  

Deplorable @151

Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing that we cannot or should not remove the illegals. But there should be an open and honest discussion of what the reality of that is and acknowledge the challenges associated with it.


I see it similar to a fat guy getting up off the couch and starting to get fit. AT first it is going to be painful and unpleasant, exercising and eating well. But the neglect for ones own well being is what put you there and you must mentally prepare yourself for the challenge with undoing the damage that sloth and gluttony have caused.

My ideas on this may be completely wrong but even then at least it gets people thinking about the bigger picture of such an operation.

If nothing else lets assume that 1/3 of the illegals are actively employed. Removing the illegals suddenly opens 3,000,000 to 6,000,000 jobs. We just put over a million people back to work (yes in lower income jobs) and reduced the number of people living off of social programs. Oh, and the democratic party is officially dead once the illegals are removed. WINNING

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 3:34 PM  

Where is all you people's CountryBallz contributions?!?

You is of the no tryingz

Seriously it fits perfectly with you guys hehehehe.

Blogger Cail Corishev February 27, 2017 3:35 PM  

formalized post WW2 libertarianism is very heavily jewish.

I can't see any reason why a minority ethnic group with strong in-group ties would encourage citizens of the host population to follow an ideology that encourages each man to think of himself as a rugged individualist rather than an interdependent member of a community that shares a common culture and goals.

Probably just a coincidence.

Blogger praetorian February 27, 2017 3:38 PM  

The great classical liberal Milton Friedman

Milton Friedman implemented tax withholding.

Blogger Cail Corishev February 27, 2017 3:46 PM  

The great classical liberal Milton Friedman said that you can have immigration, or you can have a welfare state, but you can't have both. That point seems to be lost on libertarians.

The problem is that too many of them think that means you can have all the immigration you want, or treat immigration as irrelevant, as long as you get rid of the welfare state. That's just not true, even if getting rid of all welfare were possible, or desirable to more than a tiny fraction of the population.

If a man is living in a shanty next to a river in India which has sewage and occasional dead bodies floating by, he's going to prefer living in a shanty next to a sparkling clean river in California -- regardless of how much welfare you take away from him.

So then the libertardian says fine, as long as he's not hurting anyone or stealing, who cares? Great, so now we've got people coming in by the millions from crapholes around the world, squatting on public lands, starving because there's no gimmedats, and begging along the highways until they drop dead. Wanna chase them out of all the public spaces? Welcome to the authoritarianism you wanted to avoid.

Just keep them out. Don't try to complicate it, saying we can make A happen by doing B. Just do A.

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 3:51 PM  

The great classical liberal Milton Friedman

Milton Friedman implemented tax withholding.

Milton Friedman was a price controller during WWII.
Milton also said everyone should work for the government for a while.
Milton advised Nixon to close the Gold Window in 1971, triggering wild spending and inflation, and thought it was a triumph.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 27, 2017 3:51 PM  

Francis Parker Yockey: "Legalize 'em all, I say. It's the only way."

Not all of them; that's a strawman.

But sometimes when attempts to legislate morality cause more problems than they solve, it becomes necessary to selectively repeal them.

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 3:52 PM  

Milton was right about immigration dooming a welfare State, but otherwise considered it beneficial....

Blogger pyrrhus February 27, 2017 3:55 PM  

The only practical (and Constitutional) idea is to legalize all drugs at the Federal level, subject to State regulation.....If people frequent killed themselves with illegal drugs (not happening, only with Legal drugs is it common), why would that be a problem in a bankrupt welfare state?

Blogger Danby February 27, 2017 3:56 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:If a man is living in a shanty next to a river in India which has sewage and occasional dead bodies floating by, he's going to prefer living in a shanty next to a sparkling clean river in California -- regardless of how much welfare you take away from him.
And when he gets to that shanty beside the sparkling clean river in California, being an Indian, he's going to shit on the riverbank. Let enough of them in and the Russian river becomes the Ganges.t

Anonymous BBGKB February 27, 2017 3:58 PM  

At that point the Drug cartels blatantly take over to the point that mexico becomes more or less a tribal state.

Have you ever been to mexico outside the tourist areas that have drinkable tap water like Can coon? The 84 lumber superbowl add might have a more realistic view of Mexicans even with one of them reverse littering.

thefederalist.com/2017/02/27/threatening-violence-trans-activists-expel-un-pc-research-medical-conference

No need to wait for SHTF to see tranny biker cultist attacks

Anonymous Vin February 27, 2017 4:06 PM  

Like Vox and most of you I also came to the Alt Right via libertarianism. Before Trump the last Republican I voted for was Buchanan in 92.

The insanity of the LP's open borders stance pushed me out a few years ago leaving me without an ideological home. Libertarianism with open borders in a majority non White and hostile world = suicide.

I'm drawn to the AR for it's acceptance of race/gender/IQ realism and the nationalism but wary of it's embrace of authoritarianism. I accept we may need extra constitutional means to get out of this demographic mess but I'm hoping it's temporary.


Anonymous Jack Amok February 27, 2017 4:17 PM  

Exactly which civil liberties do you advocate "crushing" in your pursuit of protecting western civilization

Basically we restrict your liberty to pursue something at the expense of your neighbors. Some examples:

1) You can't pursue business profitability by dumping untreated waste into the river, and you can't pursue it by importing indentured H1B servants to displace your neighbors from their jobs.

2) You can't pursue business profitability by freely importing cheap crap from overseas when it could be made by locals instead.

Basically, both 1 and 2 can be thought of as "you can't import something unless it's actually better (and likely more expensive) that the native option." French wine or Belgian chocolate? Sure. 3rd-rate Dot-Indian coders? No. Mexican tequila? Okay. Mexican lettuce pickers? No.

3) You can't pursue your religion by restricting other people from pursing theirs. No jihadis, no lawsuits to ban nativity scenes, no insistence that people cater to your dietary restrictions...

4) Your sexual liberties can't disgust your neighbors or expose their children to sexual themes. You like bondage and having your wife peg you? Fine, so long as you do it with the curtains drawn and you don't scream loud enough for the neighbors to hear. But you have no need to parade yourself in public.

5) Most importantly for SJWs, your liberty to make unreasonable demands on your neighbors has to be severely restricted. Your liberty to be an emotional basket case can't force everyone else to walk on eggshells.

Blogger Kettle February 27, 2017 4:19 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous BBGKB February 27, 2017 4:20 PM  

government is a day gerous servant."Nice speech wreck ignition soft wear. I'm seeing a lot of that lately.

Die Verse City His Hour Strength

Blogger Martin February 27, 2017 4:20 PM  

76. Eduardo
If convicts in prisons can group together after identity, im sure civilians can manage as well. Besides, removing the protection of the law from illegals life and property will speak to peoples greed. Even immoral and unpatriotic people will become more effective than any borderpolice in the world.

And it is not "whoever you want". It is simply making the law asymetrical. The only ones the collective protect are those that are part of the collective. OR have a valid visa, meaning the collective have extended its protection to you temporarily.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 4:27 PM  

@173

It is because the Alt-Right is still filled with Neo-Nazi or more accurately, White Movement Restart people that are enamored with... Socialism!

Basically they still want a Dictartorship that will finally end in UTOPIC Communism or it's scientific version or something like that.

What they need to think that is to look at your brethren and think "These are our walls!" It is everysingle of them that counts, you don't need Hitler.

No homo stuff though ... sorry Uncle Steve you gonna have to work as support.

Blogger Cail Corishev February 27, 2017 4:29 PM  

Wait, some libertarians think the solution to illegal immigration is to say citizens can kill and rob them at will?

I just can't figure out why people think libertarians are goofy.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 27, 2017 4:31 PM  

@161

Libertarians oppose the welfare state.


Sure, but nobody cares.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 27, 2017 4:33 PM  

pyrrhus :"The only practical (and Constitutional) idea is to legalize all drugs at the Federal level, subject to State regulation"

I think the Portugese solution bears serious consideration.

Different country, different culture...but still worth the analysis.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer February 27, 2017 4:39 PM  

So how would the libertarians respond to this?
Ramos says US "our country not theirs"

You can't "individual liberty" your way out of an invasion. Trump has done this country a service by forcing our foes to come out and openly state what they think.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 4:43 PM  

@177

Well thinking as a asymetrical rule, yeah I can see Bernie killing his neighbours... It is a Purge-Like scenario.

But do you really want people to get away with stealing so many things... they will get used to all this winning, you do see those Post-Apocalyptic scenarios rising right? Raiders O_Õ!

It is exaggeration but you never know.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 27, 2017 4:43 PM  

So, when you remove legal protections from illegals, does that include protection against enslavement? I know many Libertarians have no objection in principle to voluntarily entering into slavery.

What if slavery in America is better than freedom in Africa?

Libertarians always think they will be the Captain Of Industry, not the serf starving as he slaves in the field for the lord of the manor.

Blogger kurt9 February 27, 2017 4:56 PM  

Basically, both 1 and 2 can be thought of as "you can't import something unless it's actually better (and likely more expensive) that the native option." French wine or Belgian chocolate? Sure. 3rd-rate Dot-Indian coders? No. Mexican tequila? Okay. Mexican lettuce pickers? No.

How about if it is both better and cheaper?

The example was the situation with cars in the 1970's. The Big 3, partly due to regulatory changes but mostly due to corporate arrogance, produced junk in the 1970's. The Japanese came in with cheap cars, but ones that ran well and lasted more than 70K miles. Thus, the Big 3 car makers lost market share. But the quality of cars improved during the 80's and early 90's such that American made cars are now as good as Japanese made ones.

The issue I'm making here is that I understand your guys' desire to protect American jobs. However, there are times when foreign competition is necessary to force an industry to "get its act together". The problem with protectionism is that it is often used to reduce competition and allow corporations to become inefficient and corrupt at producing goods and services. The key is to protect American jobs while at the same time prevent this kind of rent seeking parasitism.

Your sexual liberties can't disgust your neighbors or expose their children to sexual themes.

Seems reasonable to me. I'm a big fan of privacy (and discreteness) when it comes to things sexual. I also agree that sexually does not belong in public.

No-fault divorce, hooking up and the rest of the sexual hypergamy Bang! stuff.

You might be able to change no-fault divorce, although I think it unlikely. Good luck in trying to prevent "hooking up" and the rest. But we can all have our fantasies, can we?

Another big thing right now that will only grow is medical tourism, driven mainly by high costs and excessive FDA regulation. For example, I expect the SENS therapies to become available internationally before the U.S. Same for CRISPR cas 9 gene therapy, which may be useful for telomere maintenance as well as stem cell regeneration in general. One of the problems with current FDA regulation, other than it makes things expensive and takes too long for approval, is that the FDA currently refuses to classify aging as a disease. One candidate for FDA commissioner that Trump is considering wants to change this (and is actually a board member of the SENS research foundation). It is intransigent FDA regulation that forces many Americans (including myself) to seek medical treatment abroad. If the alt-right opposes medical tourism, then it could do a great many of us a massive disservice.

I've never seen the Mayberry show. I have spent time in Singapore and find it a very functional place.

Kurt, you're really not getting it.
It's not about "competence". It's about compatibility.
The base idea is that genetic inheritance determines an awful lot of a person's personality, things like aggression, compliance, honestly, sexual drive, sexual behavior, what sorts of things you find irritating or appealing, etc.


Then you really are talking about competence. Competent people (in the Heinlein sense) share many of the traits that you mention. East Asian immigrants fit in perfectly well in a performance-oriented achievement society that we have. The same is true for SOME Indian immigrants. Basically any immigrant group that does not form a underclass sub-culture does fine in the U.S. The problem comes with Latin American immigrants as well as African Americans. I suspect large numbers of Middle-eastern Muslims will not fit in either. Again, as someone mentioned earlier, the key traits are cognitive ability and executive function. Additionally, both of these traits correlate positively with sexual restraint, which seems to be a key issue for you guys.

Blogger Some Dude February 27, 2017 5:00 PM  

Libertarians should get their testosterone checked and see if they can tell if a person is being sarcastic or smiling.

Once we diagnose autism - social blindness and a form of retardation - they can go back to their toys like good little girls.

Blogger Some Dude February 27, 2017 5:01 PM  

DOES NOT COMPUTE> EVRYONE ACTS LIKE ME> AND IF THEY DONT THEN I WONT TRADE BASEBALL CARDS WITH THEM AND THEN THEY WILL PLAY FAIR AND WORK HARD> DOES NOT COMPUTE ERROR ERROR STOP PUNCHING ME STOP IT THAT IS NOT CIVIL > DONT YOU KNOW THE TIME VALUE OF MONEY? HELP ME FREE MARKET HELP ME FREE MARKEDBH()*)u80j83e

Blogger Some Dude February 27, 2017 5:03 PM  

That is a joke. I am not really a computer yet. I must learn and study hard and then I will become a computer.

Blogger praetorian February 27, 2017 5:10 PM  

You might be able to change no-fault divorce, although I think it unlikely. Good luck in trying to prevent "hooking up" and the rest. But we can all have our fantasies, can we?

The Gods of the Copybook Headings will take care of all that.

I also agree that sexually does not belong in public.

A societies sexuality is always in public. How could it not be?

Then you really are talking about competence.

No. We are talking about identity. High trust societies are necessary for efficient large scale societies because society is a long series prisoners dilemmas, and identity keeps men (as best it can) from cheating. Small scale societies can make their simple dilemmas iterated, so a higher stable state can be achieved, but that doesn't work in highly complex and mobile societies like we have in the west.

China has a much higher IQ than the west (assuming they aren't cheating) and, comparatively, sucks. Why? Europeans are/were high trust.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd February 27, 2017 5:24 PM  

praetorian wrote:China has a much higher IQ than the west (assuming they aren't cheating) ...

If it is possible to cheat on an IQ test, expect the Chinese to cheat. There is a reason their society is considered low-trust.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 27, 2017 5:25 PM  

Then you really are talking about competence. Competent people (in the Heinlein sense) share many of the traits that you mention. East Asian immigrants fit in perfectly well in a performance-oriented achievement society that we have. The same is true for SOME Indian immigrants. Basically any immigrant group that does not form a underclass sub-culture does fine in the U.S.
As I said, you're really not getting this. They have to go back. No Cinese. No Indians. The cultural divide is far too great. They mean to rule us. Not out of animosirt, it's just that they're more comfoetable in a Chinese society.

If I wanted to live in Singapore, I_d moce to Singapore, I wouldn't try to create a new Singapore here.

Blogger praetorian February 27, 2017 5:34 PM  

I_d moce to Singapore

Mobile Snidely Whiplash is best Snidely Whiplash.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 5:37 PM  

Kurts bring a good point, what happens if the Companies start to use nationalism against the nation by being lazy?

Blogger praetorian February 27, 2017 5:48 PM  

Kurts bring a good point, what happens if the Companies start to use nationalism against the nation by being lazy?

It's a danger of course, but there are ways of dealing with it that don't involve dissolving your nation. A culture of engineering excellence, like the Germans have, is a good start.

And keep in mind, one man's lazy is another man's middle class father having time to play catch with his son after school. I'm not making any of my kin compete with hive people fresh off the rice farm and willing to work 12 hour on/offs and sleep in bunks.

Anonymous idiocraties February 27, 2017 5:49 PM  

I have not got a coherent answer from libertarians on how to deal with immigration from cultures that are essentially anti liberty. The usual response is a nod to either the free market, or magic soil. That is to say, not an answer at all.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY February 27, 2017 5:50 PM  

Chinks should live in Chinkland. Pajeets, mezzcans, Somalis, etc., etc., etc. Stay where your culture is the norm and contribute to it. If you let everybody in here that wants to be it here it will soon be standing room only here, and this place will go to crap faster than it already is.
We need a break from this multiculti let 'em all in and let'em all stay stuff already.

Blogger JP February 27, 2017 5:54 PM  

I am or at least was an ancap libertarian. The problem with most critiques of it is that we are so far from a libertarian society that discussing it is a bit like discussing The Invisible Hand while we're starving in a gulag. To get even close to it requires at a minimum reversing the entire culture/demographics since the 1960s, reversing every policy since the 1890s, and reverting to the States rights system prior to 1860. In short, it's a pipe dream without going the route of the alt-right, x10. There's been very few cultures that have even gotten close to a libertarian/ancap ideal, and they were all white, homogeneous, high IQ, largely Christian, and with giant natural barriers between them and their neighbors. To be a non-alt-right libertarian requires ignoring all of those factors.

In short, it requires a mixed-race multi-culti population who've spent 12 years in Marxist indoctrination camps to suddenly emulate the culture of 11th century Iceland, 15th century Switzerland, or 18th century America, all while living in a post-nuclear age.

Anonymous Eduardo February 27, 2017 6:00 PM  

@194

I find funny that most of the problems we habe seem to be correlated with Moral Decadence, even when you think about First World Invasion, it goes back to shitty morals following through. So much for "modernity"...

@195

The answer will probably be: RACISM!

No jokes there.

@196

Well there is some good (to others) to send all the shitty people to other countries and built a WALL later XD.

1 – 200 of 280 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts