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Friday, February 10, 2017

Debate: Jack Murphy vs Vox Day

Here is a brief selection from the recent debate on the future of the Alt-Right  between Jack Murphy and me that was hosted by Ivan Throne, the author of The Nine Laws:

Ivan Throne: Vox, do you advocate a white ethno-state? If so, what is the proper white homeland?

Vox Day: I wouldn’t say that I advocate for the white ethno-state so much as I see it as inevitable. First of all, white ethno-state is somewhat of a misnomer. White American is not the same as a European nationality. This is something that I have had to explain to a lot of white nationalists. White nationalism makes no sense in Europe because over here we have distinct white ethnic groups that are completely separate.

In the US, however, where the original American nation has been adulterated to the point that you have a generic white race, there you will see the same move towards homogeneity that we have traditionally seen throughout history. People tend to forget that homogenous nations do not spring into existence from the ground. They emerge from heterogeneous, multinational, multicultural empires. The US went from an Anglo-Protestant nation to a multinational, multicultural, multiracial empire. It was an empire that was imposed by force during the Civil War, and it will go the way of all empires. We are already seeing, in the American southwest, the rise of La Raza Cosmica, who want their own independent state in the southwest.

It’s going to be a mess. These situations are always a mess, but in terms of what is right or wrong, my tribe has its own reservation, and I support them having that reservation, and I don’t see any reason that self-identified white people should not have the same self-determination that the US has defended around the world for a hundred years.

Jack Murphy: That is a very interesting representation. I am a lifelong Democrat. I voted for Bill Clinton and proudly for Obama during the first election. I live in Washington DC, the bluest of all blue districts in the US. It is sort of a democratic ideal. I have come into the exploration of white identity politics from a belief that there is a feminist/Marxist overreach combined with intersectionality that has deemed victim culture here in the US as where we are. Every minority group, self-identified to some intersection, has become a victim. By virtue of them being a victim there must be a perpetrator. That perpetrator according to them is me. A straight white male. Russian Jewish and Catholic Irish, but that doesn’t matter. Through intersectionality I become the perpetrator of all evils in the Us.

This is my entre for identity politics. From there I explore why and how our people representing themselves in groups and based around identity functions. I explore the identities and advocacy that our people entertain. My perspective, as I explore new political groups after being abandoned by the democrats in their move to the left, the world shifts and the center passes me by and I find myself on the left. I must figure out where I fit into in this new reality. The term alt-right came up. From my perspective, the alt-right was exciting. It wasn’t stodgy and unappealing to a counterculture person. It wasn’t boring. I didn’t really understand or have any notion about its history. I began to explore with the perspective of “I am now the bad guy.” Just ten years ago, I was part of the “good team.” I was questioning how I would find my way in the future when being a straight white male in the US makes you the villain.

This conversation is to me an exploration. The conversation I wanted to have with Spencer, who has been very vocal advocate for white amnesty by any means possible, was going to seek direct answers to the question of what means he wanted to use. For me, I am less concerned about theory, less concerned about broad subjects that are not really about what I am going to do today. How am I going to manage day to day?

Vox Day: Just so you understand, we are not talking about theory here.

There is nothing more pragmatic and realistic than what I am describing. What I am describing is about as optional as gravity. What has fundamentally changed is the US, and the reason that people like Richard Spencer and people who have long been completely ignored on the Right, people who were pushed out and pushed aside by William F. Buckley and the conservative movement. Those people saw this coming. Since 1965, when the Immigration and Naturalization Act was pushed through, the die was cast. Ever since 1965, the US has been on a clock, and the clock is running out of time. The clock has now run out.

What I mean by running out is this: it is only possible to have ideological or political disagreements when you have people who are more or less the same in identity. As the founder of Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, said, in any multiracial state, all politics is identity. This is not a white thing, or a European thing. This is not even a right-wing thing. This is straightforward history and political science.

Someone like Richard, or some of the people who are out there more aggressively advocating for white nationalism, or whatever you want to call it, they are a symptom. Even your move to the right was a result of people hating you. They didn't allow you into the party anymore. At the DNC, they kicked out a guy running for chairman because he was criticizing a Muslim. That, too, is identity politics. It doesn’t matter if you do not know your identity, you know you are different because they kicked you out.

This is all part of the same very large cyclical process. The end result of that process is, as the Alt-Right likes to say, diversity plus proximity equals war. And the end result of that process is ethnically homogenous ethno-states.

Labels: ,

89 Comments:

Anonymous Vin February 10, 2017 8:08 AM  

I stopped listening to anything Murphy had to say after 'proudly voted for Obama'.

Anonymous Rocklea February 10, 2017 8:20 AM  

"How am I going to manage day to day?"

A primal question for the id in an unfamiliar environment. A desperate yearning to belong.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 10, 2017 8:26 AM  

"I don't know how I'll manage." Classic libtard tell. You can see he still hasn't recovered fully yet.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 10, 2017 8:38 AM  

"Intersectionality" = Progressive Caste System, that fucking cat fight that conservative intellectuals are paid to legitimize.

Even the Black Bloc that group of low SMV white males is part of the PCS and their actions are lift them above the others within the caste system.

The PCS most valuable asset are the conservative stooges who mindlessly volunteer for the weekly political theatre.

Blogger VD February 10, 2017 8:42 AM  

I stopped listening to anything Murphy had to say after 'proudly voted for Obama'.

That's a mistake, in that our numbers are going to come from ex-cucks, ex-cons, and ex-libs. It helps to see where they are coming from. Granted, it makes no sense to follow them, as they are followers, and it makes no sense to accept their inevitable "you're going too far" criticism, but it is wise to understand them in order to better persuade them.

Blogger Hauen Holzwanderer February 10, 2017 8:44 AM  

I'll have to give it a listen but if this is any indication it's Vox giving cogent answers (and ones that you can nearly anticipate if you've been paying attention) vs. muh abandonments feelzbadz.

Blogger MDN February 10, 2017 8:48 AM  

"A straight white male. Russian Jewish and Catholic Irish"

Now reading Jack Murphy's blog posts talking about divorce, 'ethical non-monogamy' and all sorts of deviant sex make a lot more sense...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 10, 2017 8:50 AM  

Check out his twatter feed, hilarity ensued, moronic posts galore.

IMO the Murph is a frakin idjit

Blogger Hunsdon February 10, 2017 8:50 AM  

I am trying really hard not to come across as a sycophant or fanboi, but damn. He just couldn't let go of the jargon, could he? Magic dirt, magic words.

Anonymous Viidad February 10, 2017 8:55 AM  

"Now reading Jack Murphy's blog posts talking about divorce, 'ethical non-monogamy' and all sorts of deviant sex make a lot more sense..."

Two words: Threesome Thursdays

Blogger VD February 10, 2017 9:02 AM  

He just couldn't let go of the jargon, could he? Magic dirt, magic words.

Give him time. If you read the debate, you can see that he's never encountered some of the concepts or questioned some of his assumptions before. He's a smart guy, he'll figure it out soon enough.

As I said, this is similar to gravity. Sooner or later, you'll understand that your preferences and opinions are irrelevant.

Blogger Mr. Excitement February 10, 2017 9:05 AM  

Jack is still stuck on all the old myths. "Proposition Nation" "Magic Dirt" "Judeo-Christian"

We can come together and teach the Somalis the concepts of small government and free markets!

Blogger VD February 10, 2017 9:07 AM  

Jack is still stuck on all the old myths. "Proposition Nation" "Magic Dirt" "Judeo-Christian"

I have to admit, I was very much amused when he threw in the classic "Judeo-Christian" nonsense. But I've learned not to chase tangents.

Blogger Kang February 10, 2017 9:15 AM  

VD:"That's a mistake, in that our numbers are going to come from ex-cucks, ex-cons, and ex-libs. "

I hope so.
Watching Jonah Goldberg, and Krauthammer this morning, no doubt many cucks are Stockholm syndrome imprinted and will move left as these trends move forward. Amazing: these two concede conservative principles but bemoan tactics while the waters rise. Because they were once strong in my tribe, I watch fascinated and revolted.

Just as they bow to left, will they bow to an ascendant God emperor, as the right viciously rolls over them? Will then then respect the Alpha, and reprint (when, like all reprogramming), they are ripped by fear, and conditioned by alt-right approvals?

I don't think so. Derb said recently no war will happen as the left owns just about all western institutions and it works for them: denying cakes/ hotel reservations, voiding EO, etc. like high school mean girls.

I don't know.....

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 10, 2017 9:15 AM  

I'm pretty sure after reading his twitter feed that the "Alt-Wrong" is not for him. Honestly I have seen better virtue signaling, but still his was good.

In his defense he is a man of the left and even he thinks feminism a frigging horror show. If anything then why should I take feminism seriously if he doesn't?

Anonymous PinochetsChopperPilot February 10, 2017 9:25 AM  

Pardon my non-technical Gen-X ignorance, but I'm really enjoying the Periscope thing and infogalactic, where/how do you "join" the Burn Unit (where is it?), or donate. I hear you and others reference the Burn Unit but I don't see where or what it is.

Keep going Vox, you are doing a lot of the labor for us.

Blogger Gaiseric February 10, 2017 9:27 AM  

Kang wrote:Watching Jonah Goldberg, and Krauthammer this morning, no doubt many cucks are Stockholm syndrome imprinted and will move left as these trends move forward. Amazing: these two concede conservative principles but bemoan tactics while the waters rise. Because they were once strong in my tribe, I watch fascinated and revolted.

The problem with the two you mention is that they never were part of your tribe. They just seemed like it, because for a little while there, your aims were aligned. But Krauthammer and Goldberg very reliably prioritize the interests of their (((real tribe))) over that of ours.

They may yet be useful allies again. But never again will I make the mistake of believing that they are of my same identity and therefore likely to be aligned when it comes to existential threats to the nation.

Anonymous Millenium February 10, 2017 9:27 AM  

Russian Jewish

If he turns his coat again I won't be surprised.

Anonymous Ironsun February 10, 2017 9:34 AM  

'I am a lifelong Democrat. I voted for Bill Clinton and proudly for Obama during the first election.'

I have read Murphy somewhat, but something rubbed me the wrong way. My suspicions are confirmed. I would be surprised if he did not vote Obama twice.

Nice teaser, I am looking forward to listening the the whole thing.

Blogger Nate February 10, 2017 9:44 AM  

wait..

Asked about the White Ethnostate... jack responds by spending 500 words talking about himself?

is Jack Murphy a female minister?

Blogger VD February 10, 2017 9:52 AM  

Pardon my non-technical Gen-X ignorance, but I'm really enjoying the Periscope thing and infogalactic, where/how do you "join" the Burn Unit (where is it?), or donate.

Right here: Join the Burn Unit. Just to be clear, the Burn Unit is made up of the monthly subscribers, and does not include the one-time donations. We appreciate both, of course.

Blogger VD February 10, 2017 9:53 AM  

Watching Jonah Goldberg, and Krauthammer this morning, no doubt many cucks are Stockholm syndrome imprinted and will move left as these trends move forward.

Certainly. Like Jesus Christ before him, the God-Emperor comes as a sword, in this case to divide Alt-Right from wrong.

Blogger darkdoc February 10, 2017 10:03 AM  

Through intersectionality I become the perpetrator of all evils in the Us.

"Intersectionality" is that state where, instead of forcing progressives and SJW's onto an ice flow, and casting it out to sea, the alt-right is asked to tolerate and understand their complete lack of worth to civilization.

Anonymous Avalanche February 10, 2017 10:06 AM  

@18
Krauthammer and Goldberg very reliably prioritize the interests of their (((real tribe))) over that of ours: EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

FIFY

Anonymous ZhukovG February 10, 2017 10:13 AM  

I could see voting for Obama the first time. John McCain is the only reason anyone needed.

Anonymous ZhukovG February 10, 2017 10:19 AM  

Besides, we really do owe Obama a debt of gratitude. Did he not tirelessly, if unconsciously, labor for eight years to prepare the way for the ascendance of God-Emperor Trump?

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable February 10, 2017 10:21 AM  

But I've learned not to chase tangents.

Yes, I was glad you didn't. Judeo-Christ is a great meme, but better to stay on message. It was less of a debate, I thought, than a learning experience for Jack, but then he explicitly said that's what he was after.

Anonymous teapartydoc February 10, 2017 10:24 AM  

The identity and violent shut downs of speech is explained pretty well in "Campus Discourse and the Silence Track" in the Winter 2016 issue of Academic Questions. Speech is conditional, parsed by race, class and gender, and enforced by silencing-of-voice theory. Current hegemony is by gender feminism, race/post-colonial theory, antinormative sexuality, and neo-Stalinism, which turns speech into a military issue with domination by the winners.
Postmodernism comes in to say that there is no ideation in speech. All speech is an act, and as such becomes merely an instrument of enforcement. Counter-actionis not, therefore done on some metaphysical plane but is done by interference and interrupting. The way this is seen by gender feminists is that it is necessary because according to the theory of gendered silence male gendered voices silence women and listening to the male voice is an act of silencing.
As such the libs have painted themselves into a corner where violence is their only alternative to dealing with us.

Anonymous teapartydoc February 10, 2017 10:26 AM  

I need to add that my response to the article was that the concept of speech as enforcement is the way a three year old views speech.

Blogger Timmy3 February 10, 2017 10:27 AM  

Good interview. I find the Democrat being open minded to your point of view to be much better than the Never-Trumpers. I'll visit the link to read the rest.

Anonymous 2-10-17 February 10, 2017 10:32 AM  

Murphy is put of his depth.

He blames victim based identity politics for what has happened while at same time uses the tools of victim claiming.

Murphy:
"Look at these good white things I did, I was so good. Now the bad identity politics is here and they won't let me play anymore, and I'm all alone. Poor me, waaaaah."

Simone give that little boy a cookie and Pat on the head. Maybe a participation ribbon.

Anonymous Joe February 10, 2017 10:42 AM  

I think Jack may have the same "mixed-bias" as Obama did. Obama will always identify more with his black side, and I believe Jacks' biases and uncertainty toward the alt+right stem from him identifying more with his Jewish side. This is the feeling I get. Nothing nefarious, just tribal.

Anonymous BBGKB February 10, 2017 10:56 AM  

election. I live in Washington DC, the bluest of all blue districts in the US. It is sort of a democratic ideal

Democrat Ideal indeed "While my mayor is snorting cocaine off a trannies ass I can go down to Comet Ping Pong when I get a hankering for dark meat & cheese"

VD:"That's a mistake, in that our numbers are going to come from ex-cucks, ex-cons, and ex-libs. "

The old "if not liberal at 18 no heart not conservative after looking at how much of your paystub goes to Latrina's 21 crack babies no brain"

Nothing nefarious, just tribal.

Do you consider the boy scouts hosting trannies to be nefarious? The BS won a supreme court case saying they could be themselves but thousands of jewish lawfare attacks latter they offer a tranny badge.

Anonymous fop February 10, 2017 11:00 AM  

Read Jack's bio. Loved the part where he says he was an amateur boxer who never lost a match.

Anonymous fop February 10, 2017 11:01 AM  

OMG Jack Murphy is Tiny Tim!

Anonymous Jack Amok February 10, 2017 11:18 AM  

I'm having a hard time reconciling Murphy's bio (amateur boxer, hyper-competitive athlete, red-pilled advocate of masculinity, etc.) with the PoMo word soup he used to answer that first question. Not only was there the solipsism Nate noted, but the word choices and phrasing ("coming to the exploration...from a belief...intersectionality...") were hardly what I'd call masculine.

Strange cat.

OpenID rufusdog February 10, 2017 11:21 AM  

Murphy is a deviant. Read “You Deserve to be a Sex God” from his site.

I didn’t think it was possible for my opinion of “Game” to sink any lower but, never say never.

Yet another shining example of, sans Jesus, just a different kind of fucked up.

Anonymous ZhukovG February 10, 2017 11:24 AM  

I believe there is a reason that Never Trumpers are often more difficult to deal with than many White Democrats. Most Never Trumpers made their decision based on their own ideological beliefs and/or their own ‘Identity’ group. Many White Democrats are only voting Democrat because of FDR. Most, particularly younger, White Democrats don’t realize that is what they are doing but if you follow their families’ voting history it will have its roots in FDR’s moderately left economic populism.

President Trump is not only Reagan’s heir, but FDR’s as well. The moment I heard about Trump’s plans to rebuild America’s infrastructure, I thought to myself, “that sounds like the WPA”. Trump is offering a ‘New Deal’, not only to those of us who fondly remember Ronald Reagan, but to working class White Democrats, not just abandoned but actively reviled by their own party.

Anonymous CC February 10, 2017 11:45 AM  

He blames victim based identity politics for what has happened while at same time uses the tools of victim claiming.

Jack Murphy is trying to come to terms with a world rapidly changing around him but is doing it with the intellectual tools familiar to him. But, here again, it's seeing the trend that's important and it looks like it's dawning on him that the concepts and ideals he believed in are inadequate. That's why it's important to understand them to some degree in order to give a helping hand to anyone who is moving beyond them. Not easy though, every time I read something like intersectionality my eyes glaze over...

Anonymous Jack Murphy February 10, 2017 12:09 PM  

Great comments.

One point of clarification - I use the word "intersectional" as a way to point out the tools of the left. I'm clearly (to me at least) not an adherent to that model, and the consequences of that model are being seen everywhere today. Intersectionality is one of the root problems I am working against.

Blogger Jon D. February 10, 2017 12:38 PM  

So excited to listen to the full debate!

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents February 10, 2017 12:39 PM  

"A straight white male. Russian Jewish and Catholic Irish"


Outside of the Hajnal line on both sides. There are some things he will never grasp at the intuitive level, but will have to work hard to understand, like "the rights of Englishmen".

I guess if Jack Murphy's SJW and Klantifa pals beat on him hard enough and long enough, he'll come to terms with the parts of alt Right he cannot really understand.

Like why the Hajnal line matters.

Anonymous craptagon February 10, 2017 12:54 PM  

diversity plus proximity equals war

WW2 supposedly helped the various ethnicities of America feel as one, and the same's been said of various wars re: the class system in Britain. And I understand that Rome was pretty much constantly at war with someone or other throughout its entire existence.

So (1) does war help forge a nation out of its diverse parts, and (2) does peace do the opposite, allowing those constituent parts to gradually drift apart until the nation itself is no longer whole?

P.S. Feel free to substitute "war and peace" with "crisis and contentment" or even "chaos and order"

Anonymous Eduardo February 10, 2017 1:00 PM  

I can almost hear jack murphy saying: "You see if we get rid of Christianity, problem solved n_n!!!"

Hmmmmmmm, looks at Athey Europe... Yep, I agree bro.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl February 10, 2017 1:11 PM  

I think we should be easy on Jack Murphy - discussed in good faith, was honest, respectful overall (it seems, have to read the whole thing).

Besides, what's that all about "red pilling" anyway? Jack Murphy is no SJW nor is he a Commie.

@41 Jack Murphy

Yeah, that whole "intersectionality" model is meant to basically edge out white liberals. It's a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose proposition - you look white, ergo, you're white. Plus, if you're Russian and Jewish, that's a double hit too, depending on the day. (The Left is sympathetic to Jewish people as long as they're in, well, entertainment or the government. Other than that, Jews are Apartheid-loving baby killers.)

Either way, good debate and discussion.

Note: Maybe we have to update "red pilling" to "red meating" - red meat is delicious. Red pills are pills.

Anonymous BBGKB February 10, 2017 1:11 PM  

Read Jack's bio. Loved the part where he says he was an amateur boxer who never lost a match.



So (1) does war help forge a nation out of its diverse parts, and

People used to expect to make sacrifices in wartime, in peacetime the burden of Latrina's 21 crackbabies is too noticeable.

Anonymous BBGKB February 10, 2017 1:13 PM  

Sorry my "insert delivering/receiving blows behind the home depot dumpster joke" tag didn't work.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl February 10, 2017 1:16 PM  

BBGKB wrote:The old "if not liberal at 18 no heart not conservative after looking at how much of your paystub goes to Latrina's 21 crack babies no brain"



I think it happens when people learn real math and not Social Justice Math.

"Hey wait, why is 1/3 of my paycheck gone?"
"Taxes."
"Huh? I make 9.00 an hour."
"Yes, but it's to help those in need."
"Uhm, like roads and libraries?"
"Well, no, families who need money."
"Oh like my neighbor. She has 5 kids from 5 different dads, who are all in jail. I see."
"That's right. They need your money."
"..."

Anonymous Eduardo February 10, 2017 1:17 PM  

Was a great talk. But was less hard-hitting that I had expected. You guys were too nice, we need to have more uncontrolled emotions, screaming and sound-only fights.

Was good.

Blogger Duke Norfolk February 10, 2017 1:19 PM  

This poor boy is lost. It remains to be seen if he'll be able to truly accept the world's truths.

Sounds a bit like Dave Rubin, who's turned from a Young Turks doofus to something more libertarian, I suppose.

He says the left moved and he has just stayed the same, but that's largely B.S. Yeah, the left has gotten more extreme, but the mainstream was NOT where Rubin is now, anytime in the last couple decades, at least.

Rubin's OK, and he does a good interview. But he's a midwit who thinks he's discovering new ground at times. It's amusing.

Anonymous Eduardo February 10, 2017 1:21 PM  

I know this is racist... but is Ivan's voice really like that O_O???

He sound like Steven Crowder's Matthew Petterson voice.

Blogger VD February 10, 2017 1:24 PM  

I know this is racist... but is Ivan's voice really like that O_O???

You probably can't tell since you're not American, but he's deaf. Read The Nine Laws. It's a powerful story.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl February 10, 2017 1:32 PM  

Duke Norfolk wrote:Rubin's OK, and he does a good interview. But he's a midwit who thinks he's discovering new ground at times. It's amusing.

True, but guys like Rubin are important for conversion of the empirically minded, but misinformed.

I'll steal from Gavin McInnes - who said a lot of times people just have the wrong facts. A lot of people trust data and evidence - it's human nature. When given the reality, people will take reality.

OR: Guys like Rubin and Murphy give candy to the cave dwellers in Plato's allegory, give them the taste of reality before the crash.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 10, 2017 1:33 PM  

@44
WW2 supposedly helped the various ethnicities of America feel as one

There was wall-to-wall propaganda with that in mind. Movies made at the time pushed it very hard.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 10, 2017 1:36 PM  

@14 ce8d632a-647c-11e3-94d3-000bcdcb2996

BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN!
---

Vox, please spam this loser. This is the one and only person on GAB that I have blocked. I don't know if you saw it, but it is a monomaniacle troll who will post this same thing hundreds of times in a row to every forum it can find.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 10, 2017 1:40 PM  

@56 Were-Puppy

Why not just boycott him?

Blogger VD February 10, 2017 1:42 PM  

I don't know if you saw it, but it is a monomaniacle troll who will post this same thing hundreds of times in a row to every forum it can find.

Yeah, he's on the spam list. Hasn't commented here enough for it to pick him up reliably.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 10, 2017 1:43 PM  

@41 Jack Murphy
Great comments.

One point of clarification - I use the word "intersectional" as a way to point out the tools of the left.
---

It is my understanding that intersectionality is a part of 3rd wave feminism to allow for even greater levels of victimhood. Being a bra burner was no longer good enough. "I'm black, and feminist, therefore I'm more important than you" type of thing.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 10, 2017 1:47 PM  

@48 DemonicProfessorEl
I think it happens when people learn real math and not Social Justice Math.
---

Damn that common core math is crazy. Saw a video describing it. It really reminds me of the assembly language programming days trying to be cute :P

Blogger Were-Puppy February 10, 2017 1:50 PM  

@56 A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents Why not just boycott him?
---

If they don't spam him, we'll all see why :P

Blogger Brian S February 10, 2017 1:51 PM  

Vox, your rebuttal about the nation immigrants part, where you went into the founding ideals, and the realities on the ground back then was excellent, and tying in the euro situation with the napoleonic wars was something I hadn't considered as a complete picture before, despite knowing about these things individually.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper February 10, 2017 1:53 PM  

This was a very hopeful interview. If someone who is steeped in the ways of the enemy can begin to come around, that means a lot of people can be brought around.

Blogger Cerdic Ricing February 10, 2017 1:55 PM  

The debate is pretty excellent, and the ground covered was pretty large. It was really weird to hear the answer that America is all about liberty and freedom and making money, as Murphy put it. That's certainly not how I think of it, and I doubt much of the rest of America 1.0, or even 2.0, thinks of it that way. It sounded very much how a foreigner would view my country, just a pile of money to loot, like a norse raider to a monastery.

Blogger Andrew Taylor February 10, 2017 2:10 PM  

The wishful thinking is strong with Jack.

Anonymous BBGKB February 10, 2017 3:18 PM  

Damn that common core math is crazy.

It's not crazy it's designed so that east Asians and whites wont learn to do math in their heads. The top wetback at amazon was actually reported on as saying the ability to do tipping level math in ones head is a superpower that the vice presidents at amazon have & recommended it for career advancement. Most of my graduating high school class had this superpower.

It sounded very much how a foreigner would view my country, just a pile of money to loot

Do you mean like a Russian Jew?

Anonymous User February 10, 2017 3:36 PM  

Moldbug shows how to talk to reporters: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/behind-the-internets-dark-anti-democracy-movement/516243/

Anonymous BBGKB February 10, 2017 3:40 PM  

Tell Jack Murphy that BLM is quiet because it is cold. Blacks act worse when its hot out, they evolved in hot areas.

Anonymous Ivan Throne February 10, 2017 3:49 PM  

Great comments from everyone.

@51 - I've got an odd voice. Son to an upper class English officer... hence the slightly odd diction. Raised on Long Island, so the nasality of the "Lawn Gyland" accent has an impact. And yes, quite deaf... so my voice at times shows it.

For the last six weeks I've been absolutely glued shut with the worst nasal virus I've ever had... like a lot of folks here in Colorado. Everyone is really rather annoyed about how long it's taking to get over this bug. It's put an absolute stop to recording the audio version of The Nine Laws.

So... essentially...

the audio experience of Ivan Throne is...

...currently problematically intersectional. Sorry.

That said, it was a terrific pleasure to host Jack and VD. It will easily hit a thousand listens in the first day.

I too found the point of the population increase as a deliberate hedge against the European powers as well-received point. Someone should write a dystopian horror show of the Emperor Napoleon hanging men in Washington.

Call it Old Boney On The Potomac.

Regards,

Ivan

Anonymous digger February 10, 2017 4:02 PM  

The one point they both goofed on was feminism. Feminism was very deliberately pushed, both in our country and others.

The same goes for the spread of public education as tool of destroying families and propagating feminism.

You can see in real time what they did to us as they do it today to the last few holdouts in Africa and Asia. Often this is seen as NGOs begging money to help little Susy get an education so she knows about the opportunities to have a better future in a job instead of a miserable existence raising the next generation.

Blogger Cerdic Ricing February 10, 2017 4:02 PM  

Do you mean like a Russian Jew?

Exactly like a Russian Jew would view it, just a pile of money to pillage from the Gentiles. I was kind of laughing to myself when he said, "well I've integrated." No, not really. The foreigner in him is still coming out quite strong.

Blogger MDN February 10, 2017 4:07 PM  

Exactly like a Russian Jew would view it, just a pile of money to pillage from the Gentiles. I was kind of laughing to myself when he said, "well I've integrated." No, not really. The foreigner in him is still coming out quite strong.

Exactly. I was laughing too hearing him talk about how well integrated he thought he was after explaining how he was lifelong liberal who proudly voted for Obama

Anonymous DissidentRight February 10, 2017 4:09 PM  

I did a double take when Murphy said that Milo benefits from the Berkeley rioters.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian February 10, 2017 4:12 PM  

Was I the only one (have not read The 9 Laws) that five minutes in, thought to myself, this dude (Ivan) is deaf? (semi-rhetorical)

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian February 10, 2017 4:14 PM  

Was a decent interview/discussion because it did not feel like a debate with the talking over each other, etc.

Anonymous digger February 10, 2017 4:36 PM  

It was a very good discussion.

When the Mexican flag waiving protesters at Trump rallies started occurring I have wondered if Trump was funding it or at least egging them on by secretly providing flags to those who showed up since the optics were so horrifically bad for Trump's opponents.

But that was before I discovered that illegal aliens could vote.

This ineptitude will continue given the DNC seems constitutionally incapable of learning from their loss.

Eventually the Soros level operatives will figure things out and adjust; but right now they seem to think the color revolution strategy will work.

Blogger newanubis February 10, 2017 4:44 PM  

Magnificent!

Blogger SirHamster February 10, 2017 4:47 PM  

Pity about the sound, it got unbearable for me around 30 minutes in, will go to the transcript.

Good content, thanks to all parties for recording and posting it.

Anonymous Eduardo February 10, 2017 4:52 PM  

@68 Ivan

Well I have to say that your accent is okay, and the diction is pretty good too, of course for a foreigner's ears, but I do see the slow a proper pronunciation worry now that you've said you are a son of an English Officer. But the way you said some words, I thought it was a internet persona speech thing, thought you just jokingly liked to speak like that.

Then Vox tells me you are deaf. =_= mannn. You are probably have the most awesome diction and pronunciation of all deaf population. Of course Vox did said that the reason I can't really connect the way you talk to deafness it is because I am not American but still, it never crossed my mind you had any kind of hearing or voice impairment. I was baffled for a while...

Anonymous Eduardo February 10, 2017 4:53 PM  

Yeah, about the audio. The microphone is picking the same sound multiple times.

Echoes, echoes everywhere.

Blogger newanubis February 10, 2017 4:53 PM  

I cast that troll back under the bridge as well WPm

Blogger Chent February 10, 2017 5:08 PM  

OT.

Vox, why don't you buy an Internet domain and start redirecting that domain here and publicizing that domain as your new address?

This way, if Google is converged and ban your blog, you can seamlessly redirect the domain to another direction.

Just a thought.

Blogger VD February 10, 2017 6:05 PM  

Just a thought.

I've had backup plans for over a decade. Nothing does exactly what I want, except this old Blogger template. I'll give it up when I must, and not until then.

Blogger tuberman February 10, 2017 8:44 PM  

#65
I intuited the math in the head thing as a mentor. I ran into a couple of books years ago on how to appear to be a math magician that works for kids with slightly above average grade school math skills. They are a series of TRICKS that make these kids seem to be prodigies. The first few chapters are easy, but make these children (usually boys) look sharp with tools that even a 3rd or 4th grader can tackle, but they get
harder as the chapters progress.

The real trick is that they lead these kids into doing math in their heads...FAST, and at levels that get harder and harder. The success in the early chapters is the carrot that sets a fire in them for learning more by pushing forward with it, and the books always promotes all emphasizing quick head calculating.

Within six months one of these boys was almost 4 years ahead of 3rd grade his class. At the end of his 7th grade year, he was in the upper 1% of juniors in high school math (with much more mentoring, of course). He knew basic Algebra and Geometry at the end of 7th grade.

I have no follow up on the other boy, except he was doing really well through 4th grade.

Anonymous map February 10, 2017 9:20 PM  

The one thing that every white liberal male has to understand is this:

What makes you think the Revolution does not apply to you?

If the policies are anti-white male, then they will eventually be used against you and no level of virtue-signalling will prevent that from happening. So why would you find it surprising is this revolution eventually eats you?

Anonymous digger February 10, 2017 10:56 PM  

@tuberman

What are these books you speak of?

Blogger KSC February 10, 2017 11:08 PM  

Dang, I want to know about those math books.

Blogger Duke Norfolk February 11, 2017 7:43 AM  

Cerdic Ricing wrote:It sounded very much how a foreigner would view my country, just a pile of money to loot, like a norse raider to a monastery.

Excellent characterization that has occurred to me many times of late. This is exactly what America is now; a cash cow for the world to milk.

Blogger tuberman February 11, 2017 11:00 AM  

#85 &86,

"Secrets of Mental Math: The Mathemagician's Guide to Lightning Calculation and Amazing Math Tricks" was the most important of the two, but it's been five years and I forget the other one, although I believe it was "Doing Simple Math in Your Head," which was not as playful and started a a somewhat higher level.

The first book was by far the critical book of these two, but it's always nice to have aa second source.

Blogger tuberman February 11, 2017 11:13 AM  

Playfulness is so important when ever possible to starting that burning, yearning fire that enchants fast curious inquiry.

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