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Thursday, February 16, 2017

Genetic politics

It is futile to deny the impact of identity politics, given that both science and history are pointing towards the observable influence that genetics and demographics have at the macrosocietal level:
Here we identify very recent fine-scale population structure in North America from a network of over 500 million genetic (identity-by-descent, IBD) connections among 770,000 genotyped individuals of US origin. We detect densely connected clusters within the network and annotate these clusters using a database of over 20 million genealogical records. Recent population patterns captured by IBD clustering include immigrants such as Scandinavians and French Canadians; groups with continental admixture such as Puerto Ricans; settlers such as the Amish and Appalachians who experienced geographic or cultural isolation; and broad historical trends, including reduced north-south gene flow. Our results yield a detailed historical portrait of North America after European settlement and support substantial genetic heterogeneity in the United States beyond that uncovered by previous studies.

In short, their giant sample and rich genealogical data allowed them to detect large patterns of shared ancestry in living Americans. And, as expected the American nations clearly emerge from the genetic data.

How did this pattern emerge? In short, this is ultimately the result of the four British folkways of Albion’s Seed. Here the genetic data show that they remain alive and well. Previously, in my post Genes, Climate, and Even More Maps of the American Nations, we saw that the founding British colonists came from distinct parts of the British Isles and settled in different parts of North America. The founding British stock are themselves visible in the genetic data, as we saw from fine-scale analysis of Britain

So what then do the clusters of Han et al mean? While the original colonial ancestry of the country has been overrun by subsequent migrants, the founding stock remain as a genetic undercurrent – a common genetic thread – within each American nation. This is especially true in the nations of the American South, where the colonial settlers received less subsequent migration and the original stock remains strong.
Neither conservatism nor progressivism can account for the patterns and trends being observed. This is why it is vital for the Alt-Right to resolutely resist the temptation to lock itself into an ideology that will ultimately doom it to the same sort of ludicrous denial that we so often see from communists, socialists, feminists, free traders, multiculturalists, Churchians, conservatives, neo-Nazis, and others whose political identity requires them to rely upon anti-scientific, anti-historical denial.

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83 Comments:

Anonymous Icicle February 16, 2017 4:44 AM  

Now we'll see if we can isolate the markers and transmute one population into another.

Blogger Hauen Holzwanderer February 16, 2017 5:07 AM  

Doesn't muh magik durt already do that?

Blogger #6277 Hammer February 16, 2017 5:08 AM  

"This is why it is vital for the Alt-Right to resolutely resist the temptation to lock itself into an ideology that will ultimately doom it...."
And this is why I believe you're one of the few capable of writing a definite and lasting treaty on the AltRight

Blogger Stilicho February 16, 2017 5:24 AM  

The early German influence (palatine) in upper Appalachia is easily seen today by reading surnames in a phone book. These are the Anabaptists and Mennonites who settled with and intermarried with the culturally dominant Scots-Irish although small pockets of non-integrated Germans remain, primarily distinguished religiously from the Presbyterian/Baptist Scots.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY February 16, 2017 6:00 AM  

" Nations of the American South "
I like the sound of that.

Anonymous Icicle February 16, 2017 6:08 AM  

How long until we have human ethnicity stored as genomes in frozen little capsules?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLHzEuBj0Ig

"Who wants some Pygmy?"
"Uhhhh... why the fuck did you steal that one?"
"I'm Bantu and I like rape."

Blogger Phillip George February 16, 2017 6:37 AM  

Supposedly a lot of black people voted for Trump. So there's current history genetic politics.

The NWO is a vain attempt to reverse the separations of Babel. Pentecost is God's attempt.

1. NWO
2, PreChristian Ethno States
3. Pentecost.

God can work with all three. 1. To destroy. 2. To delay destruction. 3. To avert destruction.

What have I missed?

Blogger MrPaules February 16, 2017 7:02 AM  

The Human Genome Project combined with linguistic evidence has already put into question the popularly believed assumptions about race and the emergence of early man.

1. The birthplace of humanity was in Turkestan, not Africa. The spread of the various haplotypes began in Central Asia or appeared as genetic mutations along the various migration routes during primeval times.

2. The genetic core of what it means to be "white" consists of the haplotypes R1a and R1b, but the "white" race is considerably more admixed than previously thought.

3. The Basque claim that they were the original Europeans is largely substantiated when you overlay a map of the R1b haplotype with the spread of the Vasconic language family. The so-called Indo-Europeans arrived later in a secondary wave.

Let us follow the science, indeed.

Blogger Silly But True February 16, 2017 7:17 AM  

What are the left's biggest complaints right now? 1. America was stolen from the First People of North America - Vox's family - by Europeans. 2. Putin installed Trump as his hand-picked agent to turn the US into a Russian satrapy.

Well if the First Peoples are Siberians who crossed the Bering ice bridge, then - liberals - you've got two birds killed with one stone.

But, if Vox's people weren't really Siberians who came here 13,000 years ago, but really Europeans (French, Spanish, or both) who boated here 16,000 years ago hunting after seals, well then the identity politics of the indigenous North American peoples just got a lot more interesting.

Blogger Cail Corishev February 16, 2017 7:25 AM  

The early German influence (palatine) in upper Appalachia

Learning about the two distinct waves of Germans made some things fall into place for me. I live in a fairly German-descended area of what they're calling Greater Appalachia, and some of the observations here about Germans are spot-on, while others don't really fit. It makes sense that we're talking about two different strains.

Anonymous Magus February 16, 2017 7:28 AM  

I wasn't aware of the original post to which the Unz article refers, specifically the "Four British Folkways". Seems to make a lot of sense actually.

You have rich, poncy Southerners (like myself) settling in New England; West Country Oo-ars out in Virginia; no-guff, non-pretentious mid-western folk being basically "I'm naht being funny, but..." Liverpudlians and Brummies; and then the barbarians and drunks settling across Appalachia.

That said, if I was to ever move to America, think I prefer Colorado or Oregon to any of New England.

Blogger Adm Trell February 16, 2017 7:31 AM  

Those maps are amazing... this confirms what we in Ohio have known for years, but now there's genetic proof. Generally speaking, we have 3 very distinct cultural types in Ohio. Northern is very much New England (it was a Connecticut reserve, iirc) and votes heavily Blue. Big rust-belt cities dominate this area. Western and central is Midwest and votes Red, overall. These areas have lots of small/mid sized towns and rural agricultural areas. Southern is very Appalachian and votes (mostly) Red. This mirrors his American Nations boundaries very closely. The interesting thing is that Trump made powerful inroads in northern Ohio and flipped many areas Red, causing an presidential landslide that we haven't seen in a very long time (he won by almost 10%, which is the biggest margin in 20 years)

Anonymous Barnabas February 16, 2017 7:48 AM  

"The NWO is a vain attempt to reverse the separations of Babel. Pentecost is God's attempt."
Pentecost occurred and yet tribes, tongues and nations remained and apparently will remain in Christ's kingdom. Pentecost was a sign and a wonder but I don't see where it reversed anything. In light of the events of 70AD, Pentecost doesn't appear to avert destruction in any current world sense.

Blogger Lazarus February 16, 2017 7:51 AM  

Silly But True wrote:ut, if Vox's people weren't really Siberians who came here 13,000 years ago, but really Europeans (French, Spanish, or both) who boated here 16,000 years ago hunting after seals, well then the identity politics of the indigenous North American peoples just got a lot more interesting.

Indeed:

Cherokee DNA finds matches in Northern Israel,
and along Eastern Mediterranean coastal regions

LAWRENCEBURG, TN. – Genetic research directed by the Equahiyi-Wasi (Abraham-Moses Project) of the Central Band of Cherokee has discovered links with peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean including Northern Israel and the coastal region.



"The Cherokee comprise one or more of the Northern Tribes of Israel, collectively called, 'the House of Israel' before their exile more than 2,730 years ago," said Principal Chief Joe "Sitting Owl" White of the Central Band of Cherokee, who have a museum and Council House in the Town Square.

Blogger James Dixon February 16, 2017 8:00 AM  

> ...and then the barbarians and drunks settling across Appalachia.

Hey, I resemble that remark. :)

Anonymous Barnabas February 16, 2017 8:04 AM  

By that I don't mean to imply that linguistic division persists into eternity.

Blogger Orville February 16, 2017 8:04 AM  

Magus, where does the east midlands fit in? Specifically Nottinghamshire?

Anonymous Mycroft Jones February 16, 2017 8:05 AM  

America BC, by Barry Fell. Excellent book about all the pre-Columbus immigrations to America by people from all continents and races.

Blogger Silly But True February 16, 2017 8:31 AM  

@Lazarus

Interesting.

Who would have thought the Book of Mormon was right all along?

Blogger MrPaules February 16, 2017 8:56 AM  

"Who would have thought the Book of Mormon was right all along?"

Ridiculous. The Book of Mormon describes the migration of a Hebrew tribe who crossed a vast wilderness and arrived at the sea. South is the only possible route matching this description. The western coastal region (of modern Israel) is/was anything but a wilderness, and there's no ocean marching east.

Once again genetics provides the answer. There's an African tribe on the Zimbabwean/South Africa border that has always claimed to be the lost tribe. They have always maintained Jewish practices such as dietary rules and circumcision. Recent genetic investigations reveal a direct link, not only with ancient Israel, but with a specific priestly cast within the Jewish genome. I can't remember the name of the African tribe, but it begins with an "L". Maybe someone else can elucidate.

Blogger Harris February 16, 2017 9:06 AM  

Speaking of Identity Politics, consider the recent complaints by Left-wing reporters covering the White House. They cannot make any legitimate complaints about the content of the questions being asked of Trump, because the questions in the various press conferences have been universally good and relevant. What they complain about is WHO is asking the questions - as if the questions are disqualified by virtue of who asks them.

Furthermore, the arrogance of the entrenched media in trying to determine the dominant narrative is on display. By what logical measure are questions about General Flynn and the Russians appropriate at a joint press conference featuring Israel and the USA? And yet, they don't want to comply with the purpose of the press conference; they want to highjack the occasion to pursue their own agenda. And then they wonder why Trump doesn't call on them...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 16, 2017 9:14 AM  

Well Harris you never know someone might just start stating the obvious that the once named "mainstream media" is all fucked up, staffed by lunatics with an agenda.

The king has no clothes and the media is all fucked up.

Blogger Harris February 16, 2017 9:22 AM  

Phillip George wrote:Supposedly a lot of black people voted for Trump. So there's current history genetic politics.

The NWO is a vain attempt to reverse the separations of Babel. Pentecost is God's attempt.

1. NWO

2, PreChristian Ethno States

3. Pentecost.

God can work with all three. 1. To destroy. 2. To delay destruction. 3. To avert destruction.

What have I missed?


The problem with your logic is that Pentecost was a SPIRITUAL REGENERATION, not a physical one. It is not therefore related to genetics and race; it transcends them. But that doesn't mitigate that we live in a physical world with physical realities. Pentecost doesn't mean you get to violate the physical laws of nature. Gravity, electrical properties, properties of mass and light still govern the physical world, and are not suspended due to Pentecost. Similarly, genetic differences among the nations still exist physically despite Pentecost.

I think you are making a category error by including Pentecost in your comments. Pentecost empowered disciples of Christ to make disciples of all nations. It doesn't destroy national identity. It converts nations to Christ. To take the spiritual analogy a little further, even if you consider the "body" of Christ to be one body (1 Corinthians 12), it doesn't follow that the eye can function as a liver, or the hand can function as an ear. There are still stark distinctions in function and form. No part can tell another part they are more valuable. But it means that you do your part, and don't try to do someone else's part. It doesn't merge us all together into one big melting pot.

Blogger szopen February 16, 2017 9:25 AM  

I would only warn against Jayman's-level of determinism. Genetics are important and influence the current culture, but the current culture shapes future genetics. It's absolutely doable to get thousands of the worst white trash, or bunch of gangstas from black ghettoes, put them into proper culture, cull the outliers mercilessly with no exceptions, encourage reproduction of some while discouraging reproduction of the others, and after mere 20-50 generations you could get decent, intelligent folks rivaling the best in the west.

At least, in theory :D

Blogger sysadmn February 16, 2017 9:27 AM  

No, No, No. He's reading the evidence wrong. Clearly the bands of magic dirt run East-West, not North-South. We need to move Iowa topsoil into the Black Belt across the south to counter the tragic dirt. We also need research to understand why the Somalis in Minneapolis and Columbus are resistant to magic dirt's effect.

Blogger Harris February 16, 2017 9:28 AM  

One other comment about the map. It shows something that I, as a Texan, have been saying for years. Only far east Texas is culturally related to the Deep South. The vast majority of Texas does not relate to the deep south cultural norms. It also points out the big differences that exist between Dallas and Houston, from a cultural perspective.

I have a daughter who has chosen to move to Houston, and I feel she has betrayed her family to a degree. It's a gut level feeling that cannot be easily explained. It's like she's moved to a foreign country.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 9:30 AM  

"This is especially true in the nations of the American South . . ."

So the Jamestown Colony and the state named in honor of the Queen comes to the fore again. Perhaps they can be included as Real Americans.

Note that my family is Massachusetts Bay Colony, so if I had a bias it would be to support the Mayflower claim, but . . . it just ain't so.

The Mayflower claim to primacy isn't based on being first. It isn't based on being English. It is based on the Mayflower Compact, i.e. a Proposition of Americanism.

The Palatines are technically a single group of immigrants who arrived (from England) in the first decade or so of the 1700's. Thousands were refused entry due to being Catholic which wasn't merely unAmerican, it was unBritish.

Now all we have to do is figure out how Thomas "The Author of the Declaration of Independence" Jefferson and Benjamin "The First American" Franklin get to be real Americans. Each had a English born parent.

Some of the signers of the Declaration were not of English descent (or had a minor component). Had English descent been considered necessary, there never would have been a United States of America.

A few thousand accepted Queen Anne's offer of terms of indenture to go to the colonies. The major areas of settlement were in Carolina and the Hudson Valley. Referring to later German immigrants as Palatines was slang.

The problem is that the problem of defining what a Real American is was baked into the cake as original ingredients, not as added frosting, which is a part of why it was formed as a confederation of states in the first place.

It was noted in the previous threads that the original settlers at Jamestown included Germans.

Blogger Thucydides February 16, 2017 9:30 AM  

Interesting.

Samuel Huntington's book "Who Are We" arrived at similar conclusions (although not quite so fine grained) through historical analysis. Amplifying Vox's repeated observations that America was founded by and to preserve the rights of Englishmen, Huntington points out that the largest initial wave of settlers who ultimately provided the nucleus of thinkers and doers who created the United States were not "just" Englishmen, but very particular Englishmen who shared certain values (Protestant dissenters) and largely came from the same regions of England.

Canada and Australia, despite also being settled by Englishmen, have different cultures and institutions because they were settled by "different" Englishmen with somewhat different cultures and beliefs. I'm informed that you can even determine roughly where Canadians and Australians came from, simply by comparing the accents of modern Canadian and Australian speech to various regional accents in England.

Of course, human history is pretty much a history of peoples migrating and displacing other peoples, so the other results of the study should not be overly surprising as well. The historical lesson for *us* is really are we going to sit still and be displaced, or are we going to do the displacing?

Anonymous BBGKB February 16, 2017 9:37 AM  

the founding stock remain as a genetic undercurrent – a common genetic thread – within each American nation.

We don't have enough white privilege left to keep recently inspected dams with no problems from breaking.

What are the left's biggest complaints right now?

I could have sworn not enough niggerettes on the moon was one of them.

It also points out the big differences that exist between Dallas and Houston, from a cultural perspective.

You mean other than black crime?

It's absolutely doable to get thousands of the worst...and after mere 20-50 generations you could get decent

Australia was a prison colony but don't expect the same thing to happen with blacks. 50 generations is longer than the US has existed in WHITE/Asian generations.

Blogger Gaiseric February 16, 2017 9:39 AM  

James Dixon wrote:> ...and then the barbarians and drunks settling across Appalachia.

Hey, I resemble that remark. :)

Benjamin Franklin called our people a race of runagates and crackers, equally savage as the Indian.

If you're one of us, you probably don't see that as an insult.

Blogger szopen February 16, 2017 9:44 AM  

@29 BBGKB
Sure, but remember that it's not like 50 generation of no results and then, puff, you get decent citizens. By imposing certain culture on people (in contrast to allow them to built their own culture) you are building an environment, to which they have to adapt. SOme will thrive and will have more children, some won't. If you would get a metrics of any complex trait with some average value of X, I am quite sure you can shift it by 1/5 of SD within a century.

It's just a reminder that while in short term genetics is VERY important, in the long term culture is important too, because it shapes future genetics.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 10:00 AM  

"Australia was a prison colony . . ."

Bearing mind that your actual criminal offense might be nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time (especially while being Irish) when the crown was looking to shore up the population of the colony.

". . . the long term culture is important too . . ."

One of the things that sets the Dutch colonies apart is that while they weren't the first to declare independence as a nation, they were the first to declare independence from their founding country. They basically invited British rule. The Dutch colonies were "captured" without a shot fired.

And of the continental countries the Netherlands had the closest cultural ties with the English. So long as you were Protestant the two cultures were compatible.

Blogger Gaiseric February 16, 2017 10:12 AM  

BBGKB wrote:Australia was a prison colony
So was Georgia. But shipping out debtors and dealing with the truly violent, unruly and savage are not the same thing.

Blogger Johnny February 16, 2017 10:18 AM  

If you wanted to and could get into breeding humans the number of generations needed for a lot of change would be very small because the selective process would be a lot more pure. Essentially it would be the same as livestock or pet breeding. Move in the Brahma bulls and the entire next generation would be noticeably different.

Blogger Johnny February 16, 2017 10:18 AM  

>>birthplace of humanity was in Turkestan

I supect what you are arguing here is not actually the "birthplace" of humanity (Africa) but the Out of Africa theory. The Out of Africa could be true but has always been kind of thin on proof.

Blogger Johnny February 16, 2017 10:19 AM  

Who stole what from who is only an issue of time. Except for the most remote areas, all land everywhere was seized by military force. So, how far back do you go. Does time start in 1947CE or 2000BCE. And so on and so on everywere else.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 10:25 AM  

"Move in the Brahma bulls and the entire next generation would be noticeably different."

With strong enforcement both from the top down and bottom up.

And if your breeding group is based on a proposition than all who do not accept that proposition must be culled from the herd.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 10:40 AM  

The last time I looked the genetic evidence was growing that Turkestan was the locus of the original homo sapiens migration into Europe. The origin of Europeans, not humanity, circa 40k years ago. This idea should only bother you if you are a white supremacist, rather than a white nationalist.

The evidence is growing that were, at minimum, two out of Africa migrations. The first, circa 100k year ago settled in Palestine, never expanded from there, and eventually failed.

The second, and successful, migration took place circa 70k years ago and populated the globe. The group was no less than 100 individuals, but no more than 300.

If you object to being descended from Africans, bear in mind that they were NE Africans and a very small, very select bunch of the hardiest and most future oriented of the lot.

Blogger Ivaneus February 16, 2017 10:47 AM  

@38 eh, I still go with the middle east "cradle of life" based on the Tigris and Euphrates. I just don't think there's enough good proof in the "Out of Africa" theory.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 10:49 AM  

"NE Africans"

i.e. the ancestors of the Real Egyptians, not the Bantu.

Anonymous RabidRatel February 16, 2017 11:08 AM  

MrPaules wrote:I can't remember the name of the African tribe, but it begins with an "L". Maybe someone else can elucidate.

That would be the Lemba - which is nominally a part of the Venda tribe.

Anonymous PolarBearBalls February 16, 2017 11:12 AM  

Virginia has historically been two states, as far as whites (now arguably three with N. Va being Yankee-fied).

The Tidewater area/Hampton Roads was the Cavalier/gentry class from England, buttressed by the elites of Richmond, and the rest of the Commonwealth was Scots-Irish, with mixes of German and Huguenot, both of which mixed with the Scots-Irish (and lower class Anglo-Saxons) to create the common "Southern" culture, which has always been Celtic in nature. That's changed of course, but that was essentially Virginia, and to a large extent, much of the Carolinas...South Carolina having more direct Scots and Huguenots.

Blogger Silly But True February 16, 2017 11:14 AM  

@kfg,
"...If you object to being descended from Africans..."

My objection is inversely as strong as how well reparations take root.

Anonymous Anonymous February 16, 2017 11:19 AM  

Lemba, one of the tribes who claim to have built Great Zimbabwe. Probably originated from refugees from destruction of second temple in ~70 A.D. and local intermarriage. Like many Lost Tribes people they don't neccessarilly do everything Kosher by modern Orthodox standards... The Lembas have legends of using an alleged Ark of the Covenant in battle, the stories sound like they packed a chest with gun powder. *shrug* I tried to look them up but are not mentioned as a major tribe locally, so either downplayed or minor ethnic group (of course could be political in that setting too...)

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 11:23 AM  

The Great Rift was not just a geological divide, but a genetic one as well, with what had been a single breeding group in an Old African Environment separated into three.

On one side an Old African environment with leopards. On the other side the Old African environment without leopards. And down the middle a New African environment, the savannah of the new valley floor.

Bonobos to the left us, Chimps to the right, here I am, stuck as a bipedal long distance runner with you.

The Nile just a hop, skip and a jump away, once we had become good enough hopping, skipping and jumping. The Nile, cradle of life and a roadway both into the heart of Africa and into Asia.

The archaeological evidence is now leaning toward Anatolia being the origin of civilization (but not Europeans, as had been previously assumed), which then really took off when it migrated into Mesopotamia. Hence the wealth of evidence for the origin of civilization in Mesopotamia.

I have no dog in the hunt, per se. I don't really care where humanity originated. If they tell me tomorrow that they have been able to "prove" that we originated in New Jersey, I might feel a bit insulted, but I'll give the evidence a fair shake.

But right now everything pretty well points to the formation of the Great Geological Rift in Africa as being the root cause of the great genetic rift.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 11:29 AM  

". . . "Southern" culture, which has always been Celtic in nature."

And, as I have pointed out before, "country" music (i.e. "hillbilly"), Gospel, Blues (The Keltic form known as the "Lament") and even rap came out of this culture.

"Pop" music is a citified phenomena, and while Keltic, is Irish-Irish, rather than Scots. The verse-chorus-verse-chorus form of song is of Irish origin.

Anonymous trogs February 16, 2017 11:42 AM  

"communists, socialists, feminists, free traders, multiculturalists, Churchians, conservatives, neo-Nazis"

One of these is not like the others. I think the sooner we get over internal countersignaling on this kind of thing, the better.

Blogger VD February 16, 2017 12:06 PM  

One of these is not like the others. I think the sooner we get over internal countersignaling on this kind of thing, the better.

You're wrong. There is no counter-signaling of any kind. Each of those concepts is intrinsically based on one or more fundamental untruths; I can easily destroy the credibility of any conventional adherent of any of those concepts.

Anonymous trogs February 16, 2017 12:31 PM  

The former 7 are hostile to the awakening and transition from cold war to blood war.

The last is largely a slur directed at milquetoasts who say hail at NPI conferences, against which our enemies encourage us to countersignal, but who otherwise read all of the same blogs, population structure papers, etc as the rest of us. I don't think distancing and disavowal does anything productive, it only feeds legitimacy to the slur.

Blogger Dirk Manly February 16, 2017 12:41 PM  

SJWs always hijack other people's events and organizations.

Blogger Cail Corishev February 16, 2017 12:46 PM  

One of these is not like the others.

Funny, I guessed you were talking about "conservatives." If you claim one member of a set doesn't belong, that's undercut pretty badly if you have to point out which one.

Blogger Dirk Manly February 16, 2017 12:50 PM  

Germans at Jamestown who agreed tolive the rest of their lives under English laws, leaders, and customs.

Blogger Dirk Manly February 16, 2017 12:58 PM  

Johnny

1947 AD or 2000 BC

There, FIFY

Blogger Dirk Manly February 16, 2017 1:04 PM  

The language trees all branch off of a trunk in India, not Africa. African languages are a branch on the language tree. Perhaps Tower of Babel was in India?

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 1:07 PM  

Or at least as long as the terms of their indenture. I understand that there was a tendency to "go native" after that.

But yes, that is the essential thing. Same as the Dutch, who not only agreed to become subjects of the crown, but in some cases actually begged for it. They were happier being British than they had been being Dutch, and that certainly influenced their assimilation.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 1:17 PM  

"The language trees all branch off of a trunk in India . . ."

No. All Indo-European languages do. They have been dying off, but not too long ago (within my own lifetime) 1/4 of all languages originated in New Guinea, not only not related to outside languages, but not even related to each other.

Some extant European languages are not Indo-European.

And here and there are scattered individual words so ancient that we have no idea where they come from, not being apparently related to any known language group.

Blogger Dirk Manly February 16, 2017 1:19 PM  

Drogs,
Your mommy says your swastika panties will be dry in just a few minutes

Blogger Silly But True February 16, 2017 1:23 PM  

I was actually going to say Free Traders. Traditionsl laissez-faire proponents were really only specifically interested in removal of direct tariffs and subsidies.

But you can still execute pretty draconian international trade measures through hard quotas, taxes, any of various "Chicomm" approaches to favoring domestic industry, and even currency manipulation, or geopolitical destabilizing which were beyond the traditional concept of "tariffs" or "subsidies."

Blogger Dirk Manly February 16, 2017 1:24 PM  

I should have qualified that. All old world languages trace their roots back to India, and the African languages are a distant branch on the Indian tree.

Blogger VD February 16, 2017 1:48 PM  

The last is largely a slur directed at milquetoasts who say hail at NPI conferences, against which our enemies encourage us to countersignal, but who otherwise read all of the same blogs, population structure papers, etc as the rest of us. I don't think distancing and disavowal does anything productive, it only feeds legitimacy to the slur.

No, it's not. Both Nazism and Neo-Nazism are complete bullshit, political philosophies that are every bit as hopelessly incoherent and hapless as feminism or communism.

I have zero respect for ANYONE who calls himself a Neo-Nazi, because it means he is a philosophically inept moron. That is not a slur, it is a substantive dialectical analysis, and I will be more than happy to publicly debate any Neo-Nazi on the subject.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 1:52 PM  

Basque, Sami, Estonian: not Indo-European.

North Africa is Indo-European because it no longer speaks a native African language. It has been repeatedly colonized by Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Spanish and French. The lingua franca of the coastal regions has a large Arabic component, with bits of Portuguese and English.

Go into "deepest darkest" and you will find languages so far from Indo-European that no European can learn them. You need to acquire them from infancy.

A current stronghold of apparent Indian origin does not actually imply that that is the origin, but just that that is where the bulk of the evidence currently lies.

There could have been, for instance, an "Aryan Invasion" of both Europe and India from Turkestan.

If that is the case, then relying on Biblical, archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidence, I would begin a search for The Tower somewhere in the neighborhood of Tehran.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable February 16, 2017 2:16 PM  

I guessed you were talking about "conservatives."

Yeah, I thought it was free traders, Cail. Makes your point for you.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 16, 2017 3:09 PM  

@24 szopen, what do you think will happen one way or another, regardless? We exist in a peculiar and not-to-be-repeated state at all times. History doesn't have a pause, stop or rewind button. That includes the broad sweep of human genetics.

Neither is this life teleological. The path ahead is not a march to bigger, better, faster, smarter, etc. If a massive culling takes place someday and the principal attribute of fitness for survival is being short, squat and having enough melanin to protect against equatorial sun, then the sun races will survive and prosper...even if it's in a complete state of barbarism found among stone-age tribesmen.

To me, we put one foot in front of the other, discerning first how we should live and then trying to implement it. How the future plays out is far beyond the influence of men, even when looking only at the path of mankind. Everything else is entertainment.

We obsess about the last 5, 50, 500 and 5000 years of human history, when even the last one is but an eye-blink of the total. Nothing that exists today is permanent at that scale.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 16, 2017 3:16 PM  

I have zero respect for ANYONE who calls himself a Neo-Nazi, because it means he is a philosophically inept moron. That is not a slur, it is a substantive dialectical analysis, and I will be more than happy to publicly debate any Neo-Nazi on the subject.

I've been (self-described) a conservative republican, a Libertarian, an anarchist-libertarian and now am something totally different from the last.

I don't know what that is, but it has roots in Commonwealth tradition and has affection for hereditary and natural aristocracy with antipathy for "anyone can be caretaker-king" democracy. I'd love to see a whole blog post dedicated to naming what the heck this is. Alt-Right lacks description, and nationalist is only part of the whole.

It most certainly is NOT any version of National Socialism. In the Current Year it's difficult to imagine anyone who's not cognitively disabled openly advocating socialism as an actual governing system.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 16, 2017 3:28 PM  

@39 I think that's "cradle of life" vs "cradle of civilization."

Regarding Jayman's original column, I'd find it hilarious if similar studies were done on the greatest distance runners of our time, and they all turned out to be relatively close cousins from East Africa. As I understand it, those who are successful in the NBA are, in fact, almost all products of (IIRC) 100 or so families.

This column, in fact, posits the same theory for why Africans dominate footraces as Griff du Lion posits for the Smart Fraction Theory and the Wealth of Nations. Take THAT! You blank-slatists!
http://www.runnersworld.com/newswire/the-latest-on-african-running-supremacy
http://www.iratde.org/issues/1-2009/tde_issue_1-2009_03_rindermann_et_al.pdf
http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/sft.htm

Anonymous Barnabas February 16, 2017 3:30 PM  

"Both Nazism and Neo-Nazism are complete bullshit, political philosophies that are every bit as hopelessly incoherent and hapless as feminism or communism."
Complete bullshit compared to what? Movements are built on myths, not on science. You don't want your myths to be self-destructive like progressivism but you are painting all ideology with the same brush.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 4:08 PM  

"I'd find it hilarious if similar studies were done on the greatest distance runners of our time, and they all turned out to be relatively close cousins from East Africa."

The best of the best are not "Kenyans," but actually from a single tribe.

Blogger szopen February 16, 2017 4:12 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:@24 szopen, what do you think will happen one way or another, regardless?

I have no idea. As I wrote, I merely observed that it is wrong to assume that genetics completely determines our future. I've discussed with Jayman on several occasion on this, because he always thinks the culture is totally determined by the population genetics, while I argued that sometimes culture may be imposed from the outside, _changing_ the population genetics, while simultanously being changed. Obviously, I do not claim that the experiment I suggested in my first comment is actually possible; no one can possibly predict with 100% certainty what will be the effects of some cultural changes.

If you, however, ask me for some general predictions on future... Well, I am the worst possible person who can any predictions. I only think anyone can see several paths which can be traversed by human race, but the problem is that this time the circumstances are really changing; advance of genetics and technology made old truths obsolete. So much may go wrong.

African populations are raising, adding their footprint on the world; Robotics may render large part of population totally unemployable in any productive way (i.e. except as some entertainers, human toys and such like). Genetic engineering may, OTOH increase average intelligence. Or it may be available only for the richest, creating real genetic castes. Geoengineering may save us from the global warming (though I know most readers here are absolutely convinced GW is a scam), or it may destroy our world. It is absolutely possible that separate human castes will form, as in the sf dystopias of the worst kind, in which elites will govern everything and everyone with a steel hand, paying only lip services to justice, fairness and such like, while all the others will live from the mercy of the capital owners, without any chance to change their fate. Technology may made any rebellion impossible. No amount of ingenuity or hard work may in future save our children from the fate of being the peons. Sometimes I wonder whether we are living in the last decades, when people can actually influence the future.

I'm sorry, I know I sound silly, but the are things which really do haunt me. If communist government of Poland had access to the half of the technologies predicted on conferences I frequent, no underground movement would be possible at all. No dissent would be possible. Everyone would present happy face to the outside world, while screaming inside.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) February 16, 2017 4:12 PM  

Complete bullshit compared to what?

Reality

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 16, 2017 4:13 PM  

Dirk Manly wrote:I should have qualified that. All old world languages trace their roots back to India, and the African languages are a distant branch on the Indian tree.
This is an assertion contrary to the current state of evidence.
As currently understood, the Indo-European languages of India (Sanskrit, Hindi, etc) are descended from the Aryan languages of Central Asia, overlaid on a substrate of the Dravidic language family of the original inhabitants.
The Indo-European languages themselves are generally thought to have developed in Central or Northern Asia, somewhere between Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Armenia, Ukraine, and Western Russia. The spread out in distinct waves, first to the south into Persia and India, then to the southwest into Anatolia and Greece, and finally to the west into Europe.
This is based on the base vocabulary of the Indo-European language family, which is rich is terms useful for a nomadic horse-based pastoralist culture in a cold and semi-arid climate, and poor in words useful to a dairying and small-hold agriculturist culture in a hot and humid climate.

There is also the Sino-Tibetan language family (Chinese, Vietnamese, etc) spoken throughout Eastern and Southeastern Asia.
The Basque language is probably the last remnant of the original languages of Europe, but has no known living relatives.
The Uralic or Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish, Magyar, some languages found on the Northern Don) are also not related to the Indo-European in any known way.
Turkish, Japanese, Korean and Mongolian form a separate language family, probably developed on the Mongolian steppe. It bears no known relation to the Sino-Tibetan or Indo-European language families.
The Dravidic language family is probably the ancient language of India, and is spoken by a couple of hundred million people.

There is a proposal, with not yet enough evidence to even be called a theory, that all of the European and Asian language families, except Basque, can be traced to a single language or language family spoken during the paleolithic, around the end of the last ice age, in what is now Jordan, Iran and Iraq, and perhaps Palestine and Egypt.

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 4:32 PM  

@68: "Reality"

I hate when that happens.

Anonymous Barnabas February 16, 2017 4:54 PM  

Twin brothers suckled by wolves. Utter bullshit, doomed from the start.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 16, 2017 5:54 PM  

Oh, and the sub-Saharan African languages have no known relationship to the Indo-European or Semitic (Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic) languages. None at all, although some claim a relationship to the Dravidian languages.

Blogger Silly But True February 16, 2017 6:35 PM  

Who gets to tell Mel Gibson he's a Semite? Well, or Persian?

Anonymous kfg February 16, 2017 6:47 PM  

"Who gets to tell Mel Gibson he's a Semite?"

http://jahtruth.net/celtisr.htm

Oh, hey, he was born in Peekskill. I had no idea until I just looked up his bio to discover he was Irish.

If you're not careful, you can learn something new every day.

Blogger Gospace February 16, 2017 6:53 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Silly But True February 16, 2017 7:11 PM  

@kfg,
Thanks. That was damn interesting.

@Sallah, Indiana Jones and Literally Nazis: "They're digging in the wrong place!"

I guess that is a larger understatement than intended.

Blogger Basil Makedon February 16, 2017 7:17 PM  

@69 Snidely,

I think you are referring to the Nostratic hypothesis. It's interesting, but controversial.

As I recall, it attempts to reverse engineer languages backwards in time based on the techniques that linguists used to reverse engineer the Indo-European languages (everything from English, Hittite, Greek and Latin to Punjabi and Urdu).

Then unify Indo-European with Uralic (Finnish, Hungarian, etc.) and the Altaic (Turkish, Mongolian, etc.) languages, then so on and so forth. The result is a language family covering all of Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, and all but the SE corner of Asia.

Some known languages are isolates meaning that they can't be grouped with any other known language -- Basque is one, Sumerian is the other.

Blogger James Dixon February 16, 2017 7:55 PM  

> though I know most readers here are absolutely convinced GW is a scam

AGW is the scam. There was global warming in the latter part of the 20th century, but such fluctuations are perfectly normal over geological time, and they were well within geologic norms. There is no real evidence we were the cause and no evidence at all that it was even a bad thing.

> Everyone would present happy face to the outside world, while screaming inside.

Which would breed an entire race of psychopaths, one of whom might very well just one day start randomly killing everyone they even think is associated with the government. And the snapping of the first one might very well trigger a number of others, ad infinitum.

Blogger Elder Son February 16, 2017 10:44 PM  

Some scholars, through research of old and newly acquired ancient text will say that from the "cradle of life" came the "cradle of civilization." I'd have to go back, but it all boils down to spiritual connotations. Somewhat of Elohim versus Elohim. Find Babel, and there you'll find the Garden of Eden, neither of which were in India.

Anonymous Avalanche February 16, 2017 11:43 PM  

@31 "By imposing certain culture on people (in contrast to allow them to built their own culture) you are building an environment, to which they have to adapt."

And then a bunch of ((("liberals"))) show up and start telling the black families with kids in school and very little divorce, with jobs and businesses in their own communities that 'they was wronged,' and 'them is owed,' and 'it's all Whitey's fault' -- and all those years of forcin' 'em to stay inside White civilization laws and cultures causing them to ACT like "they been civilized" or BE PUNISHED were wiped out in less than a couple decades. OOPS - guess it ain't magic dirt changing 'em, and it ain't magic culture raisin' their genetics.

"Wherever there are africans, this is africa" seems to be a basic biological LAW!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 17, 2017 12:11 AM  

The interesting element of the Nostratic Hypothesis is that it places and event described in Scripture, in the place Scripture describes it happening, 10-12 thousand years ago.
I don't know enough about the Hypothesis to say whether that is intentional or not.

Anonymous Discard February 18, 2017 3:28 AM  

52. Dirk Manly: Thank you.

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