ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Wednesday, February 22, 2017

The path of truth

An observation on Gab
voxday is fiercely loyal to people. But there is something else. He has an almost uncanny ability to sense who is seeking the path of righteousness, even if it is not superficially apparent from their behavior. Roosh has taken a far more spiritual path of late. Milo clearly wants to change.
Samuel Nock
There is really nothing uncanny about it. Most people tend to look at others where they were, and judge them by things they have done in the past, even in the distant past. That is why the Left constantly digs through long-forgotten personal histories in seeking to discredit people; to them, you will forever be whatever the worst interpretation of the worst thing you have ever done or said is. That this is patently absurd, of course, is irrelevant to them. They care nothing for the truth, they only seek to destroy. They are little satans, accusers in service to the Great Accuser.

But they are not alone. Petty people always insist on trying to force people into the box of their past. They cannot conceive of change, of personal growth, or personal improvement, and they hate it when others make them feel as if their understanding of the world is incorrect. They will never stop trying to remind even the most successful, most transformed individual of his less impressive past.

Fewer people look at others where they are. And fewer still look at the trend line formed by what a man was to who he is now, thereby providing a glimpse of what he may one day become. The man I am today is very different than the arrogant young man with a record contract whose primary interests were girls, music, and video games. The writer I am today is very different than the author of Rebel Moon and the generic, obvious-twist-at-the-end short story that was rejected by Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine.

The individuals I appreciate most are those who seek after the truth, even when they find it uncomfortable or personally distasteful. I am far more comfortable with the seekers than with those who are convinced that they have arrived at the final one true understanding of God, Man, the universe, and everything, whether it is the Catholic Church, the Bible, or Science that provides them with the basis for their baseless confidence.

I prefer those who know they see as though through a glass, darkly, probably because they are the only people who are not hopelessly self-deluded who also possess the courage to reject the despair of the nihilist.

Not everyone who walks the hard and narrow path of truth is, or will become, a Christian, but it is a path that eventually leads to Jesus Christ all the same.

Labels: ,

565 Comments:

1 – 200 of 565 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Almodavar February 22, 2017 8:07 AM  

One of the best posts I've ever read.

Blogger Justin C February 22, 2017 8:08 AM  

"I am far more comfortable with the seekers than with those who are convinced that they have arrived at the final one true understanding of God, Man, the universe, and everything, whether it is the Catholic Church, the Bible, or Science that provides them with the basis for their baseless confidence"

As G.K. Chesterton said,

'It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.'

Blogger Nate February 22, 2017 8:11 AM  

Amen.

A man's words and deeds reflect what's going on his heart. Conflict is not hypocrisy. It is a sign of inner struggle.

Blogger Mark February 22, 2017 8:13 AM  

The sheep know the voice of the Shepherd. They may wander as sheep are wont to do but, unfailingly, they come when He calls.

Anonymous RabidRatel February 22, 2017 8:24 AM  

Amen

Nate wrote:A man's words and deeds reflect what's going on his heart.

That is why the left is spewing so much hate.

Anonymous james@wpc February 22, 2017 8:29 AM  

So well said!

Anonymous HongKongCharlie February 22, 2017 8:38 AM  

I upvoted Mr. Nock on Gab but didn't have a clear understanding of why. Thanks Vox for putting into words what was slipping away from me due to the massive onslaught of propaganda from the left.

HKC

Blogger Iowahine February 22, 2017 8:44 AM  

Thank you for this; needed this reminder today. Many of us convict ourselves based our pasts and give up seeking the Light. These posts are yet another reason I make time for this blog each day. . . and now, Infogalactic News.

Blogger Salt February 22, 2017 8:49 AM  

Beautifully stated, Vox.

Anonymous Jack February 22, 2017 8:50 AM  

Vox - This is only tangentially related, but I'm curious if you've ever made a study of Thomism, and if so, what is your opinion of it?

Anonymous CC February 22, 2017 8:54 AM  

Great post. When I was a young teenager and the world seemed like a very painful place, I came to understand through reading and deliberation, that in the end, life is less painful when trying to see and embrace the truth, no matter how difficult and painful that might be in the short term. Truth is essential for growth.

Many people who avoid painful truths will endure unnecessary long-term misery in exchange for all kinds of reassuring lies and falsehoods. We all know who they are...

Also, I am very interested to what will happen to Milo. I don't think this is the end for him by any stretch. I wonder where he will go from here, because he's been very impressive in his mission so far whatever people think of him.

Blogger Samuel Nock February 22, 2017 8:55 AM  

Very glad my observation led to this inspired post by Vox. I owe so much to Vox and many other comrades on the Alt Right for whatever personal growth I may have undergone in recent years.

Blogger The Kurgan February 22, 2017 8:57 AM  

Best said Vox. It is after all a very narrow path and hard, but the truth is only one. Those who stay the course get there eventually.

Anonymous #8601 February 22, 2017 8:58 AM  

It has been very enlightening to witness who has been loyal to Milo and who has kicked him while he's down, like Richard Spencer and Baked Alaska.

Blogger Silent Cal February 22, 2017 8:58 AM  

I love this post.

Thank you Vox.

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume February 22, 2017 9:01 AM  

Excellent. Many truths, large and small, right there.

And an Amen to Nate too: Conflict is definitely not hypocrisy. But it's a tool the Enemy's and his minions are all too willing to use against anyone and everyone.

Blogger Vi M February 22, 2017 9:01 AM  

Vox, I noticed something about FB lately if I'm on my tablet. When someone posts a link to your site, I get a warning that says "can not ensure a secure connection."
This also happens on links to some youtube videos.
I don't know if it's just right-wing videos or if it's just that I happen to have rightwing stuff in my feed or if it's just me.
Just wondering if your readers have noticed that too.

Blogger Samuel Nock February 22, 2017 9:06 AM  

@7

Thank you, Hong Kong Charlie.

Blogger J A Baker February 22, 2017 9:06 AM  

Proverbs 3:34
Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

Blogger Wolfman at Large February 22, 2017 9:08 AM  

@14 Damn straight! Very pissed off about Richard Spencer. Next time he gets punched I might just cheer for the shit-eating cuck.

Blogger Greg C. February 22, 2017 9:10 AM  

When I look through that glass, I see you, Vox, as a man filled with wisdom and truth. God bless you!

Blogger JDC February 22, 2017 9:12 AM  

Amen. Great stuff.

Blogger Subversive Saint February 22, 2017 9:16 AM  

Glory to Him who will complete the work He began in us!

Phenomenal post Vox

Blogger rumpole5 February 22, 2017 9:17 AM  

"whether it is the Catholic Church, the Bible, or Science that provides them with the basis for their baseless confidence."

The distilled wisdom of 5000 years of sages and saints is "baseless"?

Blogger VD February 22, 2017 9:21 AM  

The distilled wisdom of 5000 years of sages and saints is "baseless"?

Absolutely.

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 9:22 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Ken Prescott February 22, 2017 9:22 AM  

The five most important words in the world, and the five hardest words for me to utter: "But I might be wrong."

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 9:25 AM  

rumpole5 wrote:"whether it is the Catholic Church, the Bible, or Science that provides them with the basis for their baseless confidence."

The distilled wisdom of 5000 years of sages and saints is "baseless"?


Given the company that he put it in, I guess the Church is not doing so badly. Still, Vox only ultimately accepts one authority, that of an internet superintelligence.

Blogger Jakob Niedzwiecki February 22, 2017 9:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous BbigGayKoranBurner February 22, 2017 9:32 AM  

Milo clearly wants to change.

What if that change is merely an anagram change to "dating 8 GINGERS concurrently"? I will let you work out the anagram.

That is why the left is spewing so much hate.

On the show Gaycation: Orlando a Hispanic lesbian activist interviewed had far more vitriol for the hospital that saved lives after cops waited 3 hours to go in, than she did for the Afghani moslem that shot 102 gays.

Blogger Goldeneye February 22, 2017 9:34 AM  

VD wrote:The distilled wisdom of 5000 years of sages and saints is "baseless"?

Absolutely.


Out of curiosity, how is it baseless?

Blogger pyrrhus February 22, 2017 9:34 AM  

@27. The five most important words in the world, and the five hardest words for me to utter: "But I might be wrong."

True. When I was young, I rarely said them. Now, I say them every day......

Blogger Dean Haskins February 22, 2017 9:34 AM  

Nobody in scripture ever knew a Jesus. http://wayofthetabernacle.com/name.htm

Anonymous Jerry February 22, 2017 9:35 AM  

Please explain.

Anonymous Stickwick February 22, 2017 9:40 AM  

Casher O'Neill: Given the company that he put it in, I guess the Church is not doing so badly. Still, Vox only ultimately accepts one authority, that of an internet superintelligence.

There is some serious lack of reading comprehension going on here. Reread what Vox wrote without the words that seem to be triggering some of you:

I am far more comfortable with the seekers than with those who are convinced that they have arrived at the final one true understanding of ...

If any of you think it's possible for a limited, finite, imperfect, fallen human being to have the final one true understanding of anything, you're worse than deluded.

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 9:41 AM  

@14 @21 I've said earlier that I have no particular interest in defending Milo, but for those who want to fight this battle, Audacious Epigone has some good pointers and some broader reflections on Milo's own problems in this regards.

https://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/02/unpacking-milo.html

Anonymous ZhukovG February 22, 2017 9:46 AM  

@BigGayKoranBurner: The Prophets, Matt Stone and Trey Parker assure me that GINGERS have no soul. Date as many as you wish. Also, kind of a weak anagram, drink more coffee. In reference to your anagram forgo suger or dairy products in said coffee.

I have been an Atheist and I am now a Roman Catholic, plus a lot of things in between, before and around. I have learned never to assume that I am not possibly mistaken.

Anonymous vfm9499 February 22, 2017 9:46 AM  

Your column today raises a minor question that came to mind while reading "Innocence & Intellect". I have an idea of what the answer probably is, garnered from reading this blog for a few years, but I'll ask anyway, because sometimes I'm kinda dim: At the beginning of 2003, you described yourself as a "radical pro-life Austrian-schooled neo-capitalist Jacksonian techno-libertarian Southern Baptist Christian". How much of that still applies?

Blogger Cail Corishev February 22, 2017 9:50 AM  

Stickwick, right. I'm Catholic, but that doesn't mean I think the Church has already arrived at a "final one true understanding" of everything, let alone managed to transmit it all to me. Nor does the Church teach that it has, so it would indeed be baseless to think so. Even our greatest saints felt that they only scratched the surface in this life.

Anonymous Iacobus February 22, 2017 9:51 AM  

In some ways, if I ever met the person I was in the past, I'd probably want to beat the shit out of him.

Anonymous Hugh G. Gaines February 22, 2017 9:55 AM  

I don't know about change for the better, but I've seen plenty of people change for the worse.

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 9:56 AM  

Stickwick wrote:There is some serious lack of reading comprehension going on here. Reread what Vox wrote without the words that seem to be triggering some of you:

I am far more comfortable with the seekers than with those who are convinced that they have arrived at the final one true understanding of ...

If any of you think it's possible for a limited, finite, imperfect, fallen human being to have the final one true understanding of anything, you're worse than deluded.


You seem to have read something into our statements. We were reacting to Vox's somewhat gratuitous singling out the Church for a sort of criticism. Confidence in all three are not "baseless" they are just not complete. The "final one true understanding of" all things belong to God. Nevertheless He did bother to teach us and give us the capacity to learn on our own. I think that all Christians would, at a minimum, agree with the statement "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfectly equipped for every good work." That implies some level of well-founded confidence.

If Vox is more comfortable with seekers, that is fine; he can keep the company he chooses. But seeking only exists to find, without a goal in the end it is mere wandering.

Blogger Cail Corishev February 22, 2017 9:56 AM  

In some ways, if I ever met the person I was in the past, I'd probably want to beat the shit out of him.

Heh. I think that every time I talk to my nephew.

Anonymous Starbuck February 22, 2017 9:56 AM  

Nobody in scripture ever knew a Jesus.- Dean Haskins

You trying to say that the entire New Testament are not "scripture"?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 9:56 AM  

@24. rumpole, from the standards of the strictest possible evidence, absolutely everything is baseless.

We hold the Bible to be based on accurate history, tradition, etc. but many people will refuse to believe this, and or have been fed information (lies or otherwise) to the contrary.

Ultimately it all comes down to belief, as ever being absolutely sure of anything in this world is effectively impossible.

@28. Casher, is that supposed to be sarcasm?

@31. Because it's quite literally impossible to "prove" anything to the strictest standards. No matter how much evidence you accrue, someone's goalposts can always be a bit further.

This isn't even going into interpretations, errors in translation, etc.

Blogger Silly But True February 22, 2017 9:57 AM  

Good wisdom. Some of the best men I know have been some of the worst I've known. We all have our own path to take, but for me on this point, aspirations matter regarding my associations.

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 9:58 AM  

Iacobus wrote:In some ways, if I ever met the person I was in the past, I'd probably want to beat the shit out of him.

But would the feeling be mutual?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 9:58 AM  

@44. Starbuck, no, he's trying to say that "Jesus"'s name would be more accurately translated as "Joshua" or "Yeshua".

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 10:01 AM  

If you waltzed into a banquet babbling about "Yesoos" no one would have the faintest who you were talking about.

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 10:01 AM  

@45 Benjamin, is that?

Blogger Dean Haskins February 22, 2017 10:02 AM  

@44 and @48, no Joshua and Yeshua are incorrect also. The link explains.

Anonymous SammyBoy February 22, 2017 10:02 AM  

@44, He's being pedantic about the Anglicization of Hebrew names.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 10:04 AM  

@50. Casher, you first.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian February 22, 2017 10:04 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian February 22, 2017 10:06 AM  

I prefer those who know they see as though through a glass, darkly, probably because they are the only people who are not hopelessly self-deluded who also possess the courage to reject the despair of the nihilist.

Not everyone who walks the hard and narrow path of truth is, or will become, a Christian, but it is a path that eventually leads to Jesus Christ all the same.

One of the single greatest things you have ever written. GOAT level.

Blogger CM February 22, 2017 10:13 AM  

It was baseless confidence. Not that our authorities on which we base our beliefs on are baseless. Whatever we know, while certain of faith, should be based in humility and knowledge that not all has been revealed or even that we have correctly interpreted what has been revealed.

Anonymous Stickwick February 22, 2017 10:15 AM  

You guys are just gonna double-down, eh?

Vox isn't saying you can't have confidence in the Bible, the Church, or Science. He's saying YOU will never arrive at the final true understanding of anything, even if YOUR OWN PERSONAL confidence in YOUR OWN understanding is based on the greatest sources of wisdom.

No wonder Vox gets irritable.

Blogger Some Dude February 22, 2017 10:16 AM  

This thing with milo is their jump the shark moment. Asode from accusing everyone they hate like trump asange and now mil of being a paedo, it curiously boomerangs back on them by stirring up gays. Add to the fact more people than ever are checking out his vids. Its their waterloo. Their dreyfuss affair in reverse.

Blogger Dean Haskins February 22, 2017 10:18 AM  

@52, strawman, as names of real people aren't changed based on the languages of others.

Blogger J A Baker February 22, 2017 10:19 AM  

“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”
C.S. Lewis

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 10:19 AM  

@51. Dean, you realize that he explains the schwa and then immediately goes on to spell the transliteration incorrectly, right? It should be Yuhoshua, not Yahoshua (YAH is another inaccurate transliteration itself, just like the names Jesus or Joshua. The letters are, more precisely, YH or YHWH because no vowels...). He's literally committing the sin he's railing against, and that's even on top of the fact that the name isn't in English to begin with, so it's technically יְהוֹשֻׁ֙עַ֙, not either "Yahoshua" or "Yuhoshua". Another "closest" interpretation would be Yhsa or "Isa" perhaps.

יְהוֹשֻׁ֙עַ֙

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 10:19 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Homesteader February 22, 2017 10:19 AM  

This. Callow youth must be transformed, usually by failure, humiliation, and bone- deep suffering that leaves him pleading with God," Please take away this pain, Father, or make me stronger, for I cannot bear it any more."

Only with this, can the weeds be cleared from the garden, and Wisdom, however unpalatable, find purchase to grow.

The boy I was, and who I am now, have only a name in common. Little else.

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 10:19 AM  

Stickwick wrote:You guys are just gonna double-down, eh?

Well, now who has the problem with reading comprehension?

Anonymous Iacobus February 22, 2017 10:21 AM  

Heh, most definitely. To get an idea, I used to be a "Friend of the Rainbow Warrior," if anyone remembers that pledge effort from Greenpeace. I look back and laugh.

Ugh.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 10:22 AM  

@57. Stickwick, you realize that part of your own personal confidence is that the Bible is true, right? You can go up in scale to larger machinations, or focus on smaller ones. I chose to focus on a particular one that was being brought up.

Double down my ass.

Blogger Beau February 22, 2017 10:27 AM  

Well, now who has the problem with reading comprehension?

Not Stickwick.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 10:29 AM  

@67. Beau, yes Stickwick.

That the basis is the basis they have chosen is the issue. That it is correct is something impossible to prove. It is taken on faith at some level, just like quite literally everything else.

Blogger Detective Instinct February 22, 2017 10:31 AM  

Stickwick wrote:You guys are just gonna double-down, eh?

Vox isn't saying you can't have confidence in the Bible, the Church, or Science. He's saying YOU will never arrive at the final true understanding of anything, even if YOUR OWN PERSONAL confidence in YOUR OWN understanding is based on the greatest sources of wisdom.

No wonder Vox gets irritable.


"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." -1 Corinthians 13:4-8a

Anonymous AzDesertRat February 22, 2017 10:31 AM  

I had no idea you co-authored Rebel Moon.

I still have my original copy, bought in the late 90's from a Waldenbooks.

Small world.

Blogger Student in Blue February 22, 2017 10:32 AM  

"Jesus wants us to betray everyone we know as long as it makes us look holier."
-a cuckservative

Blogger Austin Ballast February 22, 2017 10:33 AM  

Vi M wrote:Vox, I noticed something about FB lately if I'm on my tablet. When someone posts a link to your site, I get a warning that says "can not ensure a secure connection."

This also happens on links to some youtube videos.

I don't know if it's just right-wing videos or if it's just that I happen to have rightwing stuff in my feed or if it's just me.

Just wondering if your readers have noticed that too.


Something is odd about blogspot.com. LastPass doesn't see it as a separate domain from things it should be separate from, it is now not showing up on my Chrome homepage even after completely resetting Chrome, etc.

I am sure some alt-right censorship is going on, but some may also be the odd way blogspot is setup.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 10:34 AM  

@71. Student, why of course! Gotta make human sacrifices on the altar of the god you serve!

Every. Single. Time.

Anonymous Iacobus February 22, 2017 10:34 AM  

Stickwick wrote:You guys are just gonna double-down, eh?

Vox isn't saying you can't have confidence in the Bible, the Church, or Science. He's saying YOU will never arrive at the final true understanding of anything, even if YOUR OWN PERSONAL confidence in YOUR OWN understanding is based on the greatest sources of wisdom.

No wonder Vox gets irritable.


I'll give a perfect example: I used to be hardcore into being Catholic. In some ways, I still am. I would say to myself that I'd never change the way I think about it.

Turns out that I changed, especially in regards to the so-called leadership. I'd like to think it's for the better; after all, I can't stand Pope Francis to begin with, what with him getting on his little f*cking soapbox and telling people like me that I'm not being Christian enough. Pfft. Physician, heal thyself.

Blogger Latigo3 February 22, 2017 10:35 AM  

Wow Vox, you sound a little like C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity. Was that on purpose? Or as I have learned over the years, as we learn certain truths, they become part of us.
What the little satans do not understand, is the power of the blood and what it does.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 10:35 AM  

This is another reason Christianity is rather different and interesting. It calls us to sacrifice ourselves on the altar as a mirror or representative of Christ, rather than trying to sacrifice everything/everyone else.

Blogger Austin Ballast February 22, 2017 10:36 AM  

Vox,

I would agree a smug "I know it all" attitude is poor, but some assurance you are operating according to truth is definitely useful and proper. You are quite assured about everything I have seen you post here, as far as I recall.

Being open to being convinced otherwise is more the key. Wouldn't that be openness to the dialectic?

I have often been accused of thinking I am right too often, but I am smart enough to not force it all the time, even though some will think me merely thinking that is me pushing it.

Life is a balance of seeking what is right and true, and balancing that with reality and working it out appropriately.

Blogger Cail Corishev February 22, 2017 10:38 AM  

From the Infogalactic page on St. Thomas Aquinas:

"On 6 December 1273 at the Dominican convent of Naples in the chapel of Saint Nicholas, after Matins, Thomas lingered and was seen by the sacristan Domenic of Caserta to be levitating in prayer with tears before an icon of the crucified Christ. Christ said to Thomas, 'You have written well of me, Thomas. What reward would you have for your labor?' Thomas responded, 'Nothing but you, Lord.' After this exchange something happened, but Thomas never spoke of it or wrote it down. Because of what he saw, he abandoned his routine and refused to dictate to his socius Reginald of Piperno. When Reginald begged him to get back to work, Thomas replied: 'Reginald, I cannot, because all that I have written seems like straw to me' (mihi videtur ut palea)."

St. Thomas, of course, knew scripture forwards and backwards, as well as the writings of the Church Fathers and others. I'll never have 1% of his depth of knowledge on the topic. If Thomas felt that his own understanding of and ability to explain God and His teachings still fell that short of a glimpse of the real thing, then yes, it's safe to say I'll never be confident that I can stop seeking more understanding.

Blogger lowercaseb February 22, 2017 10:38 AM  

When you get older, it's true on the personal level but in a converse way. We look at ourselves at who we were, and define ourselves by things they have done in the past. Most of the time (and in my case) it's by living of some great past achievement rather than taking a good honest assessment of what you are doing now.

That's why I like VP as a community. It forces you to look at yourself hard and it does not allow you to believe comfortable lies about yourself...but it also shows you that if you find yourself lacking, there is a way forward.

Hell...it doesn't just show you. If you are lagging It picks you up by the scruff of your neck and tells you "You're better than this...and I won't accept or allow you to gloat OR wallow while you are here."

This place stops the journey to gammahood right in it's tracks...and nowadays that is absolutely vital. In today's society the tools of a Gamma are actively rewarded, and it is a quick and easy place for men to achieve. Nowadays, equality means that everyone has their own secret kingdom.

Thank you for deposing me from mine!

Anonymous Stickwick February 22, 2017 10:38 AM  

And now tripling down. Ironic, given that Vox's post is essentially about humility.

Anonymous WeAreTheWest February 22, 2017 10:38 AM  

Great post. Only the humble.

Blogger Student in Blue February 22, 2017 10:39 AM  

@69. Detective Instinct

In that case, based on the amount of patience he has to have, to deal with the rampant stupidity, Vox should instead be known as the Fluffy Lord of Kindness.

Anonymous TS February 22, 2017 10:40 AM  

"That is why the Left constantly digs through long-forgotten personal histories in seeking to discredit people; to them, you will forever be whatever the worst interpretation of the worst thing you have ever done or said is."

So basically not "progressive" at all.

Blogger Rabbi B February 22, 2017 10:41 AM  

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. (cf. John 3)

It is simply axiomatic that as long as we are walking in the light as He is in the light, we will be hated and reviled. The light we shine exposes their deeds which they would rather keep in the dark. And why in the dark? Because they know their deeds are evil; and rather than change their ways and walk in the light, preferring slavery to freedom, the sons of darkness must do all they can to discredit the light, trampling and suppressing the only thing that will ever set them free: the truth.

Vox is right and the OP couldn't be more spot on ...

They have become filled with every kind of wickedness ... Although they know G-d’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (cf. Romans 1)

May we, the sons of light, be encouraged and not grow weary, confident that the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Thanks, Vox. Excellent post.

Blogger Austin Ballast February 22, 2017 10:41 AM  

"No wonder Vox gets irritable.

Some of that is part of his character as well however. We tend to keep our core character, even after our conversions.

(How do you get out of preview mode? I found an error, but had to scrap the post to get back to be able to edit this.)

Blogger Goldeneye February 22, 2017 10:41 AM  

Stickwick wrote:Vox isn't saying you can't have confidence in the Bible, the Church, or Science. He's saying YOU will never arrive at the final true understanding of anything, even if YOUR OWN PERSONAL confidence in YOUR OWN understanding is based on the greatest sources of wisdom.

Thanks for the explanation Stickwick!

Blogger Dean Haskins February 22, 2017 10:43 AM  

@61--False. Spelling out the phonics of something is merely spelling out how it sounds. There is no proper English spelling, as it is a Hebrew name. According to the phonetic spelling of the Hebrew, it is yə·hō·wō·šu·a‘. There is no "u" sound there.

Anonymous Stickwick February 22, 2017 10:44 AM  

One last try, doomed though it probably is.

For those of you currently occupying the mossy lower slopes of the Bell curve, I'll type as slow as I can:

VOX IS NOT SAYING THE BIBLE ISN'T TRUTH.

HE ISN'T KNOCKING THE CHURCH.

HE ISN'T SAYING WE SHOULDN'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN SOURCES OF TRUTH.

HE'S SAYING HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING IT ALL.

WHICH YOU ARE ABLY DEMONSTRATING.

Blogger Austin Ballast February 22, 2017 10:44 AM  

BbigGayKoranBurner wrote:Milo clearly wants to change.

What if that change is merely an anagram change to "dating 8 GINGERS concurrently"? I will let you work out the anagram.


Even Solomon came to a realization that all his sin was stupid. See the very end of Ecclesiastes. Our purpose is to honor God and we will not fulfill ourselves otherwise, no matter how good things seem along the way.

Anonymous Jay Will February 22, 2017 10:45 AM  

Knowledge as weapon not wisdom. If its about wisdom there is no emotional triggering.

Blogger allyn71 February 22, 2017 10:45 AM  

I haven't read all the comments but the first one I did read @74 is exactly what I thought I was going to find based on Vox's one simple comment "the Catholic Church" was going to cause a protestant vs Catholic sperg a thon.

I am a devout Catholic but I am constantly seeking greater understanding and discernment for my positions as Vox advocates here. I agree with his statement completely, to blindly follow a dogma without thinking is ruinous. We won't all agree on any position even when looking at the same evidence. Universal agreement will only come with the return of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, till then the seeking is what is important.

Blogger Austin Ballast February 22, 2017 10:45 AM  

Relax Stickwick. It is not worth the stress!

Blogger Detective Instinct February 22, 2017 10:46 AM  

Student in Blue wrote:@69. Detective Instinct

In that case, based on the amount of patience he has to have, to deal with the rampant stupidity, Vox should instead be known as the Fluffy Lord of Kindness.


Self-proclaimed Christians who are impatient, argumentative, and unkind are poor witnesses for Christ. Do you think such 'Christians' are difficult to spot?

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian February 22, 2017 10:49 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian February 22, 2017 10:49 AM  

@93

So, you wish to confess your sins, my son? Please continue.

Anonymous 100PctAmerican February 22, 2017 10:56 AM  

Petty people always insist on trying to force people into the box of their past. They cannot conceive of change, of personal growth, or personal improvement, and they hate it when others make them feel as if their understanding of the world is incorrect. They will never stop trying to remind even the most successful, most transformed individual of his less impressive past.

Such a provocative post and full of some wonderful gems. The excerpt above reminded me of what I've suspected of SJWs for a very, very long time.

Basically, they're hurt little tweens that never got over it.

I've noticed this when I've been around them. They still talk and act as though they're in high school. Everything is taken personally and they are offended very easily. It's as though they missed out getting that "adult" gene when transitioning from high school/college into the real world.

That hurt, that woundedness is what galvanizes their protests. They have this insistence (or fantasy) that somehow they're going to make people pay for all the slights they suffered. Because doggonit... life is supposed to be fair.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but that woundedness has to be healed. Psychotherapy helps but Jesus Christ is truly the Great Healer. I've experienced it and I've been privileged to help others experience it.

The rage we've been witnessing is a very real demonstration of the Biblical "weeping and gnashing of teeth." It has a lot to do with the refusal to die to self and embrace Jesus Christ, but that's another deep topic for another day.

Blogger Detective Instinct February 22, 2017 10:56 AM  

Conan the Cimmerian wrote:@93

So, you wish to confess your sins, my son? Please continue.


I know for a fact that you don't love me as Christ does. You amuse me. I am laughing at your evasion. :D

Blogger Casher O'Neill February 22, 2017 10:56 AM  

Casher O'Neill wrote:The "final one true understanding of" all things belong to God. Nevertheless He did bother to teach us and give us the capacity to learn on our own. I think that all Christians would, at a minimum, agree with the statement . . . That implies some level of well-founded confidence.

Stickwick wrote:

HE ISN'T SAYING WE SHOULDN'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN SOURCES OF TRUTH.

HE'S SAYING HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING IT ALL.

WHICH YOU ARE ABLY DEMONSTRATING.


What are you attacking, O Master of the High End of the Bell Curve? Do you want me to rearrange the order of my statements to more ably demonstrate something? Or are you maybe reading something in, as I first said?

@92 Concur.

Blogger Resident Moron™ February 22, 2017 10:58 AM  

Truly well said.

I'd add that a big part of what permits us to be loyal to imperfect allies is the awareness of our own imperfections.

Some people lost sight of that during the last fee days.

Blogger Beau February 22, 2017 10:58 AM  

"I may be wrong," is phrase uttered by the soul on the brink of freedom.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 22, 2017 11:00 AM  

I love the part about seeing through a glass darkly.

This is a big personal theme for me lately. Sometimes it's less dark than other times, which is puzzling.

The idea that you have to seek, you have not arrived yet, is a way of life.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 11:04 AM  

@87. "Now, that first upside down e is called a “schwa,” and its sound is “uh.”"

You failed to read this, huh? That sure looks like a "u" followed by an "h" to me.

I quite literally said that technically all transliterations to English from Hebrew are somewhat incorrect (even if only because they lose native accent), thanks for repeating.

@80. Stickwick, you look like a hypocrite, trying to impose your own interpretation rather than what was actually stated.

"I am far more comfortable with the seekers than with those who are convinced that they have arrived at the final one true understanding of God, Man, the universe, and everything, whether it is the Catholic Church, the Bible, or Science that provides them with the basis for their baseless confidence."

Stickwick, he's quite literally saying that even though the Bible/etc. is their basis, their CONFIDENCE is baseless. This includes their confidence in the Bible, if you go to strict enough standards.

But please, feel free to insult us more instead of, you know, reading. Everyone loves a good baseless ad-hominem attack.

Anonymous TS February 22, 2017 11:05 AM  

"That is why the Left constantly digs through long-forgotten personal histories in seeking to discredit people; to them, you will forever be whatever the worst interpretation of the worst thing you have ever done or said is."

And such behavior usually but not always leads to the mark/victim getting worse not better. Which is the aim I'm sure considering who is behind it.

Blogger Were-Puppy February 22, 2017 11:06 AM  

@100 Beau
"I may be wrong," is phrase uttered by the soul on the brink of freedom.
---

Quote of the day

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 11:06 AM  

You know you've lost your argument when you resort to insulting peoples' intelligence and typing in all caps instead of actually addressing their arguments.

Anonymous Stickwick February 22, 2017 11:09 AM  

Benjamin, the option to write in crayon wasn't available. If you're going to persist in being this willfully stupid, I leave you to it. Nobody can say I didn't give it the old college try.

Blogger Dean Haskins February 22, 2017 11:09 AM  

@102, Yuhoshua is pronounced identically to Yahoshua. And, from Psalm 68:4, we see the Father's name is Yah (יהּ). So, spelling the transliteration "Yahoshua" is more faithful to the actual meaning of the name.

Blogger Student in Blue February 22, 2017 11:10 AM  

@93. Detective Instinct
Self-proclaimed Christians who are impatient, argumentative, and unkind are poor witnesses for Christ. Do you think such 'Christians' are difficult to spot?

You... realize you're describing yourself, right?

I've been reading and commenting for a number of years, and have spoken with Vox personally. He is none of those things that you describe.

Meanwhile, your first outing is today, and your first response to my post, which is mostly making a joke, is full of self-righteousness, argumentative, and makes a lot of assumptions. Which is very impatient and unkind.

Blogger JDC February 22, 2017 11:11 AM  

I said in my heart, “I have acquired great wisdom, surpassing all who were over Jerusalem before me, and my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 And I applied my heart to know wisdom and to know madness and folly. I perceived that this also is but a striving after wind. 18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow. (Ecc 1: 16-18)


Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 11:11 AM  

@107. Hebrew doesn't contain vowels, that's why you can say it's identical. Psalms literally says "Yh".

This is exactly why I said any transliteration is incorrect. Neither transliteration is more faithful because both are just as wrong.

Anonymous fop February 22, 2017 11:13 AM  

It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. And some that died deserve life. Can you give it to them Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many."

Anonymous Vin February 22, 2017 11:13 AM  

This x10

I'm ashamed to admit I supported him, if only as a dialogue opener on race.

After seeing him kick Milo while he's down I now have a visceral loathing for the man.

I'll not only cheer his next attacker I'm tempted to take the role myself.

Blogger Beau February 22, 2017 11:13 AM  

Sometimes it's less dark than other times, which is puzzling.

When my daily reading of God's word and attendant prayer is vibrant, then the walk is more enlightened and aware. The same as in times set aside for worship or service in his name.

The idea that you have to seek, you have not arrived yet, is a way of life.

Lord, how can I return maximum investment by you into me?

Blogger Student in Blue February 22, 2017 11:16 AM  

@102. Benjamin Kraft
Stickwick, he's quite literally saying that even though the Bible/etc. is their basis, their CONFIDENCE is baseless. This includes their confidence in the Bible, if you go to strict enough standards.

It's completely possible to take something completely true, and misapply it or misunderstand it. It does not mean that the underlying thing is untrue.

And given how much higher God is from our understanding, there's a very, very good chance that each person can be misunderstanding something about God and His Word. That does not mean that His Word is untrue.

Blogger JDC February 22, 2017 11:17 AM  

I'm beginning to believe that the early Gnostics, and those who hold to gnostic teachings today (specifically, that only their special secret wisdom or interpretation saves) are only unhappy, unsatisfied and covetous gammas acting our their secret king fantasies.

What part of, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," is so hard to understand? Is it the "not your own doing," or the fact that it is gift from God so one may not boast in their own wisdom or works?

Blogger Dean Haskins February 22, 2017 11:17 AM  

Yah in Psalm 68:4 is יהּ, its English phonetic spelling is yâhh, and it is pronounced yaw. Your points are meritless, as the names must be able to be pronounced, and this pronunciation is based on the best information we have. I am aware that written Hebrew contains no vowels, but it wasn't spoken without vowels.

Blogger Detective Instinct February 22, 2017 11:18 AM  

Student in Blue wrote:@93. Detective Instinct

Self-proclaimed Christians who are impatient, argumentative, and unkind are poor witnesses for Christ. Do you think such 'Christians' are difficult to spot?

You... realize you're describing yourself, right?

I've been reading and commenting for a number of years, and have spoken with Vox personally. He is none of those things that you describe.

Meanwhile, your first outing is today, and your first response to my post, which is mostly making a joke, is full of self-righteousness, argumentative, and makes a lot of assumptions. Which is very impatient and unkind.


It's been noticed that you didn't answer my question directly like a healthy adult would... Frauds with little self-control like you are easy, very easy! :)

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 11:19 AM  

@106. Stickwick, you know in @88. where you said that was going to be your last try? This is where I call you out for your dishonesty in addition to pushing your personal interpretation of the topic, in denigration of the other (accurate) interpretations encompassed.

You're going to insult me again. Where is what I said incorrect? It is not, and you have yet to provide a single example for why it is. But then, we've already established that you're both pushing your opinion and are dishonest, so I think I'm done here.

Unlike you, I actually won't be replying to any further comments of yours on this topic.

Blogger Student in Blue February 22, 2017 11:19 AM  

I did answer your question, dumbass.

Blogger Lazarus February 22, 2017 11:21 AM  

Synopsis of this thread so far:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLUEMj6cwA

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2017 11:21 AM  

The distilled wisdom of 5000 years of sages and saints is "baseless"?

Absolutely.


The Bible is not the distilled wisdom of 5000 years of sages and saints. It is the inspired will of God.

Blogger Student in Blue February 22, 2017 11:22 AM  

Alas, secret king wins again. Shouldn't have bothered responding to a Gamma, it's just a waste of everyone's time.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2017 11:23 AM  

Benjamin Kraft,

No matter how hard you try, Stickwick will not make out with you.

Blogger Beau February 22, 2017 11:24 AM  

I'm beginning to believe that the early Gnostics, and those who hold to gnostic teachings today (specifically, that only their special secret wisdom or interpretation saves) are only unhappy, unsatisfied and covetous gammas acting our their secret king fantasies.

Excellent insight, JDC. I'll have to start thinking on this.

Anonymous fop February 22, 2017 11:26 AM  

Actually, the quote from the book is much better than the movie quote.

"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many – yours not least."

Blogger Mountain Man February 22, 2017 11:27 AM  

A recently departed dear friend and pastor once preached that Judgement Day will be like standing trial in a court room. When our sins are laid bare for all to see - Christ as the advocate for those who have belived, will stand between us and God and say "he/she is one of mine" . At that point the trial is over... and we leave the room pardoned.


And yes we truly do see as through a glass darkly. This world and humanity is very messy and the spiritual realm complex and awe-inspiring. As mere mortals its the height of arrogance to believe we have a monopoly on the Truth.

Anonymous patrick kelly February 22, 2017 11:27 AM  

I think objective truth exists, but I am skeptical of human ability to objectively discover it.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2017 11:27 AM  

JDC has a great point. Gnosticism fits so perfectly into Gammadom that it can't be an accident.

Blogger Mountain Man February 22, 2017 11:29 AM  

@121

Good one..very apropos.

Blogger VD February 22, 2017 11:31 AM  

We were reacting to Vox's somewhat gratuitous singling out the Church for a sort of criticism. Confidence in all three are not "baseless" they are just not complete.

It was neither gratuitous nor was it criticism. If you were more intelligent, or had better reading comprehension, you would have understood that.

You're going to insult me again. Where is what I said incorrect?

Deservedly. I just pointed out two errors right there. You also erred when you claimed that "baseless confidence" was somehow an attack on the basis for that confidence.

You are obviously nowhere nearly as intelligent as either Stickwick or me. Nor is Stickwick dishonest. So, you're incorrect about that too.

I actually won't be replying to any further comments of yours on this topic.

You won't be replying to anyone at all. Go away. You're too short and much too butthurt for this particular ride.

Blogger dienw February 22, 2017 11:31 AM  

Life is a balance of seeking what is right and true, and balancing that with reality and working it out appropriately.

Say whaaa?

What is right and true is reality. Our sin is the failure to be right and true; or, if you would, we sin because we cannot be real.

Blogger Rabbi B February 22, 2017 11:33 AM  

"...so I think I'm done here."

Translation: My butt hurts.

Unlike you, I actually won't be replying to any further comments of yours on this topic.

Translation: My butt still hurts.

Blogger Mountain Man February 22, 2017 11:33 AM  

@14

Baked Alaska just oozes loser. In a previous time I lived in a world where his type were endemic. The type of guy who would always be hitting you up for a dime bag but never once bringing any of their own to the table.

Blogger dienw February 22, 2017 11:34 AM  

Our sin is the failure to be right and true.
Rephrase that: Our sin is the failure to do right and be or love the true.

Blogger VD February 22, 2017 11:37 AM  

Stickwick, he's quite literally saying that even though the Bible/etc. is their basis, their CONFIDENCE is baseless. This includes their confidence in the Bible, if you go to strict enough standards.

That is a fifth error. It does not include their confidence in the Bible. You are really demonstrating a serious lack of reading comprehension here. Stickwick has been correct throughout. You have been incorrect, rude, and obnoxious throughout.

You should be embarrassed by your feeble performance here.

And yes, this sort of Dunning-Kruger cretinism is one reason I tend to come off as irritable. Instead of assuming he doesn't understand and asking, he assumes I must somehow be wrong and criticizes.

Statistical probability indicates that there are a handful of people here smarter than I am. They also indicate that the average critic is probably not one of them.

Blogger Austin Ballast February 22, 2017 11:37 AM  

Beau,

That is why we are promised Wisdom when we seek it! We also need to realize that our plans are not necessarily God's, as James discusses.

Blogger darrenl February 22, 2017 11:38 AM  

"I am far more comfortable with the seekers than with those who are convinced that they have arrived at the final one true understanding of God, Man, the universe, and everything, whether it is the Catholic Church, the Bible, or Science that provides them with the basis for their baseless confidence."

The Catholic Church does claim many things. One of them is not the "one true understanding of God".

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2017 11:38 AM  

Mountain Man,

If my memory serves me right, Baked Alaska is also an Oath Keepers Alaska reject.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 11:38 AM  

@137. My mistake entirely then. I apologize, and will delete my comments if you wish.

Stickwick, I apologize.

OpenID doktorjeep February 22, 2017 11:39 AM  

Today's Saul could be tomorrow's Paul

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2017 11:39 AM  

Benjamin, good job.

Anonymous crushlimbraw February 22, 2017 11:43 AM  

"Believe the man that seeks the truth - run from him who has found it!" - read it somewhere but haven't found the author.
This post literally describes my own personal experience - especially the last 10 years - and so late in life. It has become my primary premise on my website on mentoring. "The harvest is ripe, but the workers are few!"
The biggest pains in the ass are people that decided some time ago that they had all the truth and now are the experts always fighting DaLastWar! It encompasses all political stripes - the worst are Conservatives and Churchians. I simply dismiss the Left as developmentally arrested - after all, that's how they're programmed.
Vox, I believe this post also relates to the one you wrote about the lack of intellectual curiosity some time ago. I have it archived.
Here's another quote from Biblical Logic by McDurmon: "Logic is the systematic study and practice of discerning and telling the truth!" - which obviously is a dynamic process and not static.
Which reminds me - Discovering truth is a process and not an end state!
Vox, you have defined what maturing is all about - and do we ever need that state of mind now!

Anonymous High Priest of Kek February 22, 2017 11:43 AM  

I enjoy this part:

"The individuals I appreciate most are those who seek after the truth, even when they find it uncomfortable or personally distasteful. I am far more comfortable with the seekers than with those who are convinced that they have arrived at the final one true understanding of God, Man, the universe, and everything, whether it is the Catholic Church, the Bible, or Science that provides them with the basis for their baseless confidence."

I was fortunate to study philosophy in college. I got to really enjoy debate, hearing different opinions, and trying to express myself clearly. I felt a lot of growth from reading different philosophic systems in different cultures, trying to understand them but also trying to keep a healthy degree of skepticism.

Truth it seems has two main components. There are objective truths - facts, statistics, etc. And there are subjective truths - belief in one's self, knowledge of one's self, the belief in some sort of higher power or background metaphysical order. To reconcile the truths - finding harmony with the observable, objective truths; and the subjective, inward truths -- has been a goal of mine the past several years (I am 27 now). Reading lots of different perspectives with an open mind has helped. I was a socialist 5 years ago, and now I am a Trump supporting capitalist and nationalist. Part of the journey of growing and journeying towards truth is being able to admit you were wrong.

Anonymous Vin February 22, 2017 11:51 AM  

Seems a good post to thank both Vox and The Ilk for putting words to some gut feelings I've had, forcing me to analyze situations from new angles and increasing my knowledge base exponentially over several years now (lurking for most of it).


OT: R Spencer & everyone else joining the Milo pile on has me so livid I'd like to file a petition for Vox to issue the following Executive Dark Order (EDO):

'No punching to the right has been temporarily suspended for 30 days'

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 11:52 AM  

@145. Vin, nah, just don't support those people when someone punches them. "Faithlessness to the faithless"...

Blogger RmaxGenactivePUA Mgtow February 22, 2017 11:53 AM  

A person who insists on ideologies & religion, isnt a seeker of the truth ...

He is a moulder of the truth, he taints the truth in spite of the obvious in front of him

This is a problem with the ideologue & the religous, instead of the truth, they taint reality, infecting it, all the while denying all the harm as it snowballs out of control, until the logical consequences of its actions destroys itself

Christianity like other religion's, is unique, it has no feedback loops, no system of correcting the errors in the bible or its followers.

Christianity's inability to adapt to its enemies is a real liability to europe & the u.s.

Jewish Leftism, jewish socialism, jewish communism are all specifically based on the bible.

Communism is specifically designed to exploit the flaws in christianity

Jews have targetted christianity, its ideology & its flawed morality, plus theyre counting on its inability to adapt to the attacks by the jews

As such it is suicidal for europe to rely on christianity

The only real hope europe has is nationalism, it has the adaptability & maneuverability, to out think & out maneuver the jewish & christian occupation of europe.

War isnt won by strategy, war is won when you're so advanced, so superior, your opponent becomes an ant easily crushed

Therein lies the question, have you the will & determination?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 11:53 AM  

Then again, I may be being a bit too vindictive.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) February 22, 2017 11:56 AM  


JDC has a great point. Gnosticism fits so perfectly into Gammadom that it can't be an accident.


Secret knowledge for secret kings

Anonymous Stickwick February 22, 2017 11:58 AM  

No worries, Benjamin. I wouldn't have persisted, except the point Vox is making is important.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) February 22, 2017 11:59 AM  

But they are not alone. Petty people always insist on trying to force people into the box of their past. They cannot conceive of change, of personal growth, or personal improvement, and they hate it when others make them feel as if their understanding of the world is incorrect. They will never stop trying to remind even the most successful, most transformed individual of his less impressive past.

To quote Rocky in Rocky IV, if I can change, you can change.

Reminding someone of their past is a way for the critics to convince themselves that he hasn't really changed, and ultimately convince themselves that they don't need to change either.

Blogger Beau February 22, 2017 12:00 PM  

We also need to realize that our plans are not necessarily God's, as James discusses.

O how I have had to learn that lesson over and over and over. Lord, what do you really want? I'n tone deaf and feckless. The only answers I see are in the scripture; preach the word, make disciples, hold forth the word of life, feed the hungry, cast out demons, cloth the naked, visit the prisoners. He tells me, "Go do these." Yes Lord. Strengthen my hands to accomplish your will.

Blogger Nick S February 22, 2017 12:02 PM  

Asher had disciples?

Blogger Student in Blue February 22, 2017 12:03 PM  

@Benjamin Kraft

Honestly the only problem was a misunderstanding between "confidence in one's understanding of the Bible" and "confidence in the validity of the Bible". Given the subject was on how faulty our own understanding can be, the former is definitely what's intended.

Misunderstandings like that happen though. As long as people don't get hung up on their own interpretation then it'll work out.

Blogger Scott February 22, 2017 12:04 PM  

Paul says something very similar in Phil 3:12-14:
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Blogger Joshua_D February 22, 2017 12:05 PM  

Thankfully, our salvation in Jesus Christ is not contingent on our own understanding.

"... that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”"

CAN I GET AN AMEN?

Blogger CM February 22, 2017 12:05 PM  

I love the part about seeing through a glass darkly.

This is a big personal theme for me lately. Sometimes it's less dark than other times, which is puzzling.

The idea that you have to seek, you have not arrived yet, is a way of life.


Sometimes, I think the gift of special knowledge is God clearing the glass for just a moment to give someone a limited, but clearer, revelation.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:05 PM  

@149. Stickwick, reading back I actually agreed with you completely at the beginning, then I assumed something that was said was directed at me instead of its actual target, and proceeded to go off on a sperg-definition-precision-rampage that was totally uncalled for.

Still working on getting my berserker instincts to calm down. I have a tendency to fly off the handle easily.

Blogger Jehu February 22, 2017 12:06 PM  

Seeker is a word that has a lot of loaded connotations in the current Christian community. It's probably best to assume that Vox means something closer to the denotation---those who are actually trying to know God and to do what He wants, however badly. Those referred to as "Seekers" in the Churchian parlance rarely fit into that category. They generally want their behavior 'affirmed' and 'embraced' regardless of the history of Christian faith and practice or the clear teaching of Scripture.
It is pretty clear that Milo does not believe that his sexual behavior is appropriate or in keeping with Scripture. In this he falls into the same category most of us do, those struggling with inappropriate sexual temptations. Is he struggling as hard as he is capable of given the grace allotted to him? I don't know. Milo might know, or he might not. God does know. God is far more forgiving than I can even dream of being, but he's also far more difficult to bullshit.
People who are honest about being sinners and who are trying to do right are infinitely preferable to those who try to twist Scripture, reality, and language to justify themselves and their heresy.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:09 PM  

@153. I partially misinterpreted what Vox was saying when people started asking questions about it. I myself find evidence in support of the Bible to be sufficient, but I kind of sperged-off down a rabbit trail that was entirely my own doing.

Vox clarifying definitely helps.

Blogger Rabbi B February 22, 2017 12:13 PM  

@157 Benjamin Kraft

The secret kings could learn a thing or two from your response. Not because you conceded or agreed ... but considered the criticism and took it to heart. Well played.

Anonymous Ken7- February 22, 2017 12:15 PM  

It's not where you were that matters most, but where you're going.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 22, 2017 12:15 PM  

What is uncanny, Vox, is how good you are at conjuring up people eager to prove your point by arguing against it.

Out of curiosity, how is it baseless?

The final distillation always has to happen inside our own thick, mortal skulls - as Stickwick has been trying to get across. And if you don't understand that, why are there a half-bazillion different Christian denominations, all using more or less the same original source material?

Blogger Mountain Man February 22, 2017 12:16 PM  

"God is far more forgiving than I can even dream of being, but he's also far more difficult to bullshit."

Amen !

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable February 22, 2017 12:17 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:"...so I think I'm done here."

Translation: My butt hurts.

Unlike you, I actually won't be replying to any further comments of yours on this topic.

Translation: My butt still hurts.


Ding ding ding! Thread winner!

Blogger James Dixon February 22, 2017 12:17 PM  

> Self-proclaimed Christians who are impatient, argumentative, and unkind are poor witnesses for Christ...

We're all "poor witnesses for Christ". But what he asks is that we be witnesses, poor or not.

Blogger Mountain Man February 22, 2017 12:18 PM  

"Self-proclaimed Christians who are impatient, argumentative, and unkind are poor witnesses for Christ..."

Well by that standard.. Im a poor witness

Anonymous damntull February 22, 2017 12:20 PM  

122. "The Bible is not the distilled wisdom of 5000 years of sages and saints. It is the inspired will of God."

Says the binary thinker.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:23 PM  

@164. Yeah man, keep piling on, my butt can take it ;3

But seriously, so much misunderstanding flying around in this topic.

@166. I know that feel bro. Patience in communicating is definitely a weak point of mine.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2017 12:23 PM  

We're all poor witnesses, hypocrites and broken sinners.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2017 12:24 PM  

Think what you want, Damntull. I won't budge an inch on that point.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother February 22, 2017 12:25 PM  

Benjamin, you might want to rephrase the reference to your butt's capacity to take it.

Just saying.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:27 PM  

@167./@170. If you accept that it's the inspired will of God, it cannot simultaneously be the distilled wisdom of sages and saints. It's from one source or the other. Thus, damnatull, regardless of which one you personally subscribe to, it's actually a binary matter, so you're wrong.

Anonymous damntull February 22, 2017 12:28 PM  

I'm saying it's both. You think these guys were taking dictation? And consider the source of the claim that the Bible is the word of God. You're relying on the "distilled wisdom" of the Church when you accept that claim.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:28 PM  

@171. Stg58, you assume that wasn't intentional.

I'm actually not gay though, but I can appreciate the humour.

Blogger VD February 22, 2017 12:29 PM  

My mistake entirely then. I apologize, and will delete my comments if you wish.

No, that's good enough. Carry on.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:30 PM  

@173. If it's from God, it's not from man. If it's from man, it's not from God.

If you think parts are from man and parts from God, you are saying that parts are valid and parts less so. You are allowing yourself to pick and choose which you will believe, which, technically, is the definition of heresy.

Blogger James Dixon February 22, 2017 12:31 PM  

> O how I have had to learn that lesson over and over and over. Lord, what do you really want? I'n tone deaf and feckless.

The one thing I've learned over the years is that he's not bashful about applying a 2x4 to the side of my head when I'm being particularly dense. :)

> Asher had disciples?

It seems so, doesn't it? At least his posts didn't fill up entire pages.

> As long as people don't get hung up on their own interpretation then it'll work out.

As long as people are searching for the truth. Exactly as Vox said.

> ...but I kind of sperged-off down a rabbit trail that was entirely my own doing.

We all make mistakes, Benjamin. We try to learn from them. Sometimes we even succeed.

Blogger Cail Corishev February 22, 2017 12:31 PM  

Seeker is a word that has a lot of loaded connotations in the current Christian community.

That's true. I've known "New Age Christians" for whom "seeking" was an end in itself. They weren't seeking any ultimate truth -- because they didn't believe objective truth exists -- so in the end they were seeking their own navels, and gladly chased any new guru or experience, the weirder the better.

That's very different from seeking toward a goal, however vaguely understood.

Blogger Brian S February 22, 2017 12:35 PM  

Molyneux enters the fray on the Milo issue, imo best analysis I've heard yet

https://youtu.be/2wsZSE-iJAk

Blogger James Dixon February 22, 2017 12:36 PM  

> If it's from God, it's not from man. If it's from man, it's not from God.

Well, it's from God but transmitted via man. The vessel cannot help but shape the message, so to that extent I think I'd have to side with damntull's interpretation.

What we are assured is that the resulting contents are both necessary and sufficient to obtain our salvation.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:46 PM  

@179. James, if you want to go with that interpretation, didn't God shape the vessel in the first place? Thus even if it's apparently entirely from man, it's actually entirely from God, regardless how poorly some things from man may reflect God.

I'm just playing semantics though. If the resulting contents are both sufficiently necessary and sufficiently accurate, I see no reason to question it being inspired by God, no matter how much it may have been distorted, it is still "sufficient". I suppose we agree then.

Blogger Detective Instinct February 22, 2017 12:48 PM  

Student in Blue wrote:I did answer your question, dumbass.

You're hypersensitive, delusional, and defamatory, a perfect little snowflake who's easily baited.

Why don't you care more about your own unkindness and hubris?

You're lying if you'd say you'd prefer to edify rather than belittle me. I'll take you seriously when you demonstrate Christlike love and humilty, which won't be in the near future, will it? :D

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian February 22, 2017 12:48 PM  

I have had many conversations about God with Mrs. Cimmerian, at the end of which, I often state, "I am glad (have hope in that) God doesn't hold us to perfect theology and knowledge of Him to enter into Heaven."

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:52 PM  

@182. Detective, regardless of whether or not Student is demonstrating Christlike love and humility, you certainly aren't. Probably best to just drop it as clearly you guys aren't getting anywhere.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 12:54 PM  

@183. Conan, no kidding. That's a higher standard than never sinning. Even Jesus said that his Father had not told him all things.

Blogger James Dixon February 22, 2017 12:58 PM  

> James, if you want to go with that interpretation, didn't God shape the vessel in the first place?

The vessel he shaped didn't need the message. :) We aren't that vessel any more.

> I suppose we agree then.

Almost certainly.

Blogger Nick S February 22, 2017 1:01 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:Seeker is a word that has a lot of loaded connotations in the current Christian community.

That's true. I've known "New Age Christians" for whom "seeking" was an end in itself. They weren't seeking any ultimate truth -- because they didn't believe objective truth exists -- so in the end they were seeking their own navels, and gladly chased any new guru or experience, the weirder the better.

That's very different from seeking toward a goal, however vaguely understood.


You're right, Cail. I think we are witnessing an acceleration of the strategy of Baalam manifest itself. It's becoming clearer all the time as it unfolds.

Blogger Student in Blue February 22, 2017 1:02 PM  

@Benjamin Kraft

Your warning to him, while well intentioned, isn't going to get anywhere with him. He's a full-blown Gamma amidst a sea of projection. It's just touching the poop at this point.

Blogger Dean Haskins February 22, 2017 1:04 PM  

Christianity = churchianity. You might be a churchian if . . .

http://wayofthetabernacle.com/churchian.htm

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents February 22, 2017 1:15 PM  

MSNBC reporter is Concerned that Trump is undermining the media, because "It's our job to control what people think"

This fits as well here as in the free speech thread. It also fits in the Balkanization thread.

Blogger Rabbi B February 22, 2017 1:16 PM  

@190 Detective Instinct

When was the last time you walked on water?

Blogger James Dixon February 22, 2017 1:18 PM  

> You haven't read the NT with comprehension if you believe all Christians are equally poor witnesses for Jesus.

Where did I say "equally"? Here, your reading assignment, should you choose to accept it: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Romans-3-10/

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 1:19 PM  

Detective, there are different perspectives. From the perspective of God, anything less than perfection is poor, and all us pure humans are short of perfection.

You're starting to get pretty preachy. Mountain's statement speaks to his humility, nothing else.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 1:22 PM  

Detective, I say you're a heretical self-righteous prick attempting very hard to look down your nose at everyone. Stop projecting.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 1:22 PM  

This poop...

Blogger Sam Spade February 22, 2017 1:27 PM  

One of the best posts I read from you. Great stuff.

Blogger Joshua_D February 22, 2017 1:27 PM  

LOL. Y'all better up your game, otherwise Detective here may also decide to not sleep with any of you!

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 22, 2017 1:28 PM  

@202. What makes you think you might be educating anyone else whatsoever?

You're poop, and I will now discontinue touching.

Blogger Raging Papist February 22, 2017 1:29 PM  

Well said Vox. From the Catholic perspective, its amazing how many live in an ivory tower of faith. Sure, they know the names of saints, without actually knowing anything about them.

I think Milo could do incredible good for the Church. His presentation on saints at a university was excellent.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable February 22, 2017 1:30 PM  

What's your genuine intent in asking me this?

Don't lie and say it's for the edification of Christ's church, please.


There is a time to stop justifying yourself and just shut up, Detective Instinct, and you're well past it.

1 – 200 of 565 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts