ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2016 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Friday, February 24, 2017

Why Russia does not pursue war in Ukraine

Alexander Dugin's explanation of Russian reticence also explains NATO's absurdly aggressive posturing:
We wanted to demonstrate to Europe that Crimea is ours, but that we were ready to discuss everything else. This was rather immoral, and I’m not sure if it really yielded any result. Nevertheless, we broadcasted this message, and those at the top were tasked with demonstrating our peaceful intentions. The shelling of Donbass cities, the murdered people, the mockery of the people of Novorossiya (not to mention the militia) - to me this price seems excessive for such a demonstration, so I have always been an opponent of the Minsk Agreements. They cannot be a solution to the situation, and this is obvious. No one on any side believes in them.

We tried to wink at Europe, to show that “we are wonderful” and say “throw out the Americans.” They [the Americans] were the ones who brought the situation to such a critical point. This wasn’t successful and couldn’t be. The influence of the Atlanticist elites in Europe is quite strong, but we still tried to do this.

As regards Ukraine, Poroshenko demonstrated the same thing. This was not a game with America, but with Europe. Poroshenko says: “I’m sitting down with the Russians at the negotiating table. Look how democratic and decent enough we are to be ready even to discuss peaceful agreements with “terrorists,” because we so want to be in Europe.” That is, Poroshenko didn’t want to report before America, but before Europe. We and the Ukrainians competed in a certain diplomatic battle to attract Europe to our side. But this wasn’t successful - they didn’t believe us up to the end, and they didn’t believe us after Crimea, but after Syria this already became clear. It’s all about confidence and power. My declared ourselves a sovereign and strong regional power, and let others understand that now it is necessary to perceive us as such. Not our diplomacy, but our real strength. Historically it has turned out that if we are strong, then they’ll consider us, but if week, then there will be no consideration. Therefore we didn’t persuade Europe, and we couldn’t convince by such ridiculous negotiations. But then they were convinced by our air strikes on ISIS and other terrorists in Syria.

Poroshenko didn’t convince them, and he couldn’t convince them because Europe, from the very beginning, did not really engage in the Kiev Maidan. The Americans promised that everything in Ukraine will be really fast, and the Europeans won’t incur any responsibility for what’s happening. Moreover, the Americans forced European leaders (especially Hollande and Merkel) to participate in the Maidan. The “young partners,” or, more precisely, the vassals of Washington naturally don’t have greater freedom of action.

When Europe turned out to be an accomplice of the US and started to impose sanctions, then it realized that deliveries of gas were being put into question. Then Europe shrunk back in horror from the Russians and Ukrainians, preferring that everything be turned back to how it always was. The Normandy Format and the Minsk talks essentially revolved around whether or not it would be possible to turn back, or at least extend the status quo. Now, as long as the Minsk Agreements are recognized by everyone, there is already simply no other exit for Poroshenko and Washington except by breaking them unilaterally and beginning the final battle for Donbass.

For the Americans, this is a way to distract us from Syria, opening a second front which is the only way by which Poroshenko can maintain power. It’s nothing personal: they’ll impose this war on us.

We will shy away from this war and cling to the Minsk Agreements for the same reasons. We don’t need a second front and need a falling, not strong, Poroshenko so that Ukraine will collapse before Donbass will be once again annexed by the Nazi state. We will shy away from direct conflict, and I can even assume that comments like mine will be censored by major media outlets. But we have seen this and it is such.

Our bet is not to allow the Ukrainians to impose war on us and not give them the opportunity to take control of the border.
The only way Russia is going to attack Ukraine is if an invitation to NATO is extended or if Donbass unexpectedly falls. Russia does not want Ukraine, because Ukraine is an expensive disaster. That's why all the neocon warmongering about Russia is complete nonsense; the Russians are attempting to build up their strength, not expend it.

Which, of course, is why the neocons who hate Russia even more than Iran are seeking to try to start a war with both. Which, of course, would be disastrous for the USA; one hopes Trump recognizes that there is nothing in it from a national interest perspective.

Labels:

85 Comments:

Blogger CJ February 24, 2017 11:05 AM  

Reticence, says your helpful editor :^)

Dugin might show some reticence himself when it comes to calling Ukraine a "Nazi state".

Blogger pyrrhus February 24, 2017 11:16 AM  

Precisely. Indeed, the Pentagon is well aware that a conventional war on the borders of Russia would see NATO defeated in short order. NATO could not even slow down Russian forces moving through the Baltic Republics per a recent article by a Marine Captain, in which he courageously demanded a complete change in the current wasteful and ineffective development and procurement policies.Such a resounding defeat would necessarily tempt politicians to do the unthinkable to avoid responsibility, and we would have to hope that nuclear launch orders would be vetoed by the actual soldiers involved....

Blogger pyrrhus February 24, 2017 11:20 AM  

"Dugin might show some reticence himself when it comes to calling Ukraine a "Nazi state"."

Apparently you are unaware that neo-Nazi mercenaries were hired by (((Victoria Nuland))) and the US State Dept. to overthrow the government of the Ukraine and attack the Russian speaking east. These mercenaries remain the dominant Ukrainian force, and have threatened even the puppet government if they aren't paid well enough.

Blogger pyrrhus February 24, 2017 11:24 AM  

Trump is a builder, not a destroyer, so there will be no war...

Anonymous Pope Cleophus I February 24, 2017 11:25 AM  

CJ wrote:Dugin might show some reticence himself when it comes to calling Ukraine a "Nazi state".

When you consider that the Maidan "uprising" was sponsored by George Soros (a WW2 era Nazi) and Victoria Nuland (a modern fascist), the shoe fits and the current government in Kiev needs to stop their fascist nonsense and get serious about negotiating with their angry Russian minorities.

Blogger allyn71 February 24, 2017 11:41 AM  

The fascist militias of W. Ukraine are the closest political entity to "literally Hitler" presently on earth today.

Anonymous Rolf February 24, 2017 11:42 AM  

There are worse future histories than CoDominium.

Blogger dc.sunsets February 24, 2017 11:46 AM  

We need to get past this fantasy of Unlimited Guns and Butter before the hole we're in is so deep that we're closer to China than daylight.

Job One: hand any pro-war, belligerent (((pundit))) an M4, a LBH, a ticket to Syria or Ukraine and tell him to put up or STFU, on pain of discovering what "impalement" feels like.

Anyone who doesn't want to "lead from the front" needs to be turned into pig food.

Blogger allyn71 February 24, 2017 11:46 AM  

The only way a Trump presidency fails is if he allows himself to be dragged into a globalist foreign war.

Trump and Putin are fighting the same enemy. That is why (((they))) are trying so hard to get them to fight each other instead.

Blogger praetorian February 24, 2017 11:47 AM  

(((Americans)))

Yeah, nah.

Blogger Silly But True February 24, 2017 11:48 AM  

We have no problem with Russia. We don't want or need Ukraine in NATO either.

Trump recognizes this.

Blogger Positive Dennis February 24, 2017 11:50 AM  

Most people don't actually realize Putin's position in tne Russian political spectrum. Putin is center left. Dugin is far right. Dugin is not a Putin supporter.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl February 24, 2017 11:53 AM  

If Trump were going to get dragged into the globalist agenda regarding Russia, we would have already seen conciliatory moves with NATO/EU among other parties. Flynn was fired for lying and that compromises any deals Trump and Putin may have on the backburner.

If we fear that Trump may be turned, we have to remember he's a mover and a doer - he would have made more solid strides to NATO or Ukraine by now and we haven't seen that.

As per Russia, and Putin - they're far cleverer and more strategic than anything the globalists have to offer, especially those in the EU. The bear won't walk into the trap like they want it to.

Anonymous Eduardo February 24, 2017 12:02 PM  

Hmmm Olave de Carvalho once debated Dugin, had some choicy words for the man, and claimed that he was the ideological inspiration for Putin.

I have to check the debate now, this Dugin guy keeps popping up. Never thought I was ever gonna hear about him ever, Carvalho debated the guy 8 years ago or something and claimed he was pretty damn important in politics... He was right.

Blogger praetorian February 24, 2017 12:05 PM  

OT: Trump at CuckPAC (jump directly to when he comes out)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfEGyPC9xJI&feature=youtu.be&t=2699

Blogger Positive Dennis February 24, 2017 12:05 PM  

Dugon's importance is greatly exaggerated in the West.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr February 24, 2017 12:05 PM  

I've noticed that a lot of people inside the Beltway haven't realized the Cold War is over.

Blogger Positive Dennis February 24, 2017 12:08 PM  

Here is one Take on Dugin. https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/tag/alexander-dugin/

Blogger CJ February 24, 2017 12:08 PM  

I'm not at all impressed by the current Ukraine government, and I think the Obama-era policy of inducing "color revolutions" was insane. Still, Dugin's "Nazi state" rhetoric is overdone. Breitbart News used to call him "Putin's Rasputin". That wasn't very accurate either.

Blogger Robert Browning February 24, 2017 12:12 PM  

If Russia and America destroy each, would Israel then become a world power??

Blogger Positive Dennis February 24, 2017 12:14 PM  

Here is another one. https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/tag/aleksandr-dugin/
I recommend this blog if you want an independent perspective on Russia.

Blogger Johnny February 24, 2017 12:17 PM  


Following WWII we tried for awhile to create a weak, pastoral Germany and discovered fairly shortly that a weak Germany was worse than a strong Germany because of what would replace it (hey, the USSR). Same thing with Russia. A weak Russia would be replaced by something worse.

As far as the Ukrainians being Nazis, this arises no doubt because they were an ethnic minority in Russia in the same way Poland was an ethnic minority in Russia when run by Tsarist Russia. Plus something like (??) twenty percent of the population was starved to death by Stalin. Between the two they sided big time with Germany in WWII and now have a lingering positive view of Nazi's in part of the population. As they lack the resources to go on global conquest and as I doubt there are many Jews in the country, a Nazi label would have little in the way of a policy outcome even if it is true, and most likely the enthusiasts are a small minority. Which is to say the Nazi label is just a convenient slander of no real policy consequence.

Anonymous Gen. Kong February 24, 2017 12:18 PM  

allyn71 wrote:
The fascist militias of W. Ukraine are the closest political entity to "literally Hitler" presently on earth today.

Since they take their marching orders from (((Soros))) and (((Victoria Nuland))), it rather begs the question as to who exactly was yanking the chains of their NSDAP prototype in Germany, especially in light of the origins of the (((Soros))) fortune. Odd connections there….

Blogger Positive Dennis February 24, 2017 12:24 PM  

No the Maidan, while funded by the West, are not controlled by the West. They are the ones that have kept the Minsk accords from happening. I doubt they are thinking this deeply, but they would rather control West Ukraine, than be an important player in a united Ukraine.

Anonymous Yann February 24, 2017 12:26 PM  

Off Topic: Milo already got a new job:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4256174/Milo-Yiannopoulos-boy-lined-job.html

Blogger Silly But True February 24, 2017 12:28 PM  

Kek:
Trump takes US out of NATO, and also sends them bill for unpaid services rendered to date.

Trump and Putin as world's only superpowers cement bilateral relationships based on mutual strength and respect.

NATO invites Ukraine.

Russia goes to war against Ukraine.

NATO goes to war against Russia.

US and Russia defeat NATO.

Trump sends all of its illegals to Merkel.

Blogger Resident Moron™ February 24, 2017 12:43 PM  

Kek:

Kek Kek.

Blogger The Kurgan February 24, 2017 1:01 PM  

CJ,
Why should he? Ukraine IS literally a Nazi state. With US funded Nazis. Not even neo-Nazis, since they read speeches from Goebbles in their parliament, complete with Heil Hitler salutes.

Blogger Silly But True February 24, 2017 1:05 PM  

Started?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey February 24, 2017 1:08 PM  

((George Soros))) and (((Victoria Nuland))). The quintessential ebil not-sees.

Anonymous nope February 24, 2017 1:13 PM  

Dugin is a crazy-ass occultist, mate.

Blogger Nick S February 24, 2017 1:17 PM  

It's been a decade or so since I read up on Dugin, but from what I remember he had some pretty wacky beliefs. I'll have to brush up.

Anonymous MIG February 24, 2017 1:30 PM  

@28
Crimea and the South-East is not their historical territory.

Anonymous genericviews February 24, 2017 1:33 PM  

The solution is to invite Russia into NATO. Then pull out of it ourselves.

Anonymous MIG February 24, 2017 1:34 PM  

@34 To clarify - not Ukrainian territory.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair February 24, 2017 1:37 PM  

"I’ll explain. As we see in Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan, and even in the North Caucasus, trends towards an increase in the influence of ISIS are growing. And if we were not fighting ISIS in Syria, then we would have to do it in Central Asia and then, perhaps, on the territory of the Russian Federation."

They're falling into the same ideas we had about Iraq an Al-Qaeda in '03...

"This is the plan of the Americans. Islamic fundamentalism has traditionally been an instrument in the structure of American and Atlanticist geopolitics, and this is an obvious point. The Islamic State is an American special operation directed against the opponents of American hegemony in the Middle East, and this includes (and is primarily) against us."

Yeah...this is an area the two of us can actually cooperate on. You think we would use Islamic fundamentalism against you all? This isn't '79-'89. Sorry. Chechnya is giving you enough of that.

"The war in Donbass will be imposed on us by Washington and Kiev. Not we, but they, despite the Minsk agreements and our attempts to get out of direct confrontation by any means, will launch hostilities. Accordingly, we return to the point which I interrupted with a commentary on events."

Well given that we didn't honor our agreement on defending Ukraine, you all could take it...I know you won't but just saying...

"Indeed, the Pentagon is well aware that a conventional war on the borders of Russia would see NATO defeated in short order. NATO could not even slow down Russian forces moving through the Baltic Republics per a recent article by a Marine Captain, in which he courageously demanded a complete change in the current wasteful and ineffective development and procurement policies.Such a resounding defeat would necessarily tempt politicians to do the unthinkable to avoid responsibility, and we would have to hope that nuclear launch orders would be vetoed by the actual soldiers involved...."

@2 Fighting on their doorstep would be ill advised due to *wait for it* logistics! That and how Russians have openly admitted they will make first use of tactical nukes...

"Anyone who doesn't want to "lead from the front" needs to be turned into pig food."

@8 So...Soylent Squeal?

"Hmmm Olave de Carvalho once debated Dugin, had some choicy words for the man, and claimed that he was the ideological inspiration for Putin."

@14 Carvalho is a badass. Are there any of his works you'd recommend over others that he's published?

@22 I can't blame the Ukranians for their distrust of Russia. Millions died in the Holmodor.

"We would do the same thing if the Mexicans by military force annexed California or Arizona and started shooting up Brownsville and Laredo."

@28 You been to Brownsville recently? It's conquered by population replacement and run by the cartels.

@35 We tried that first part...didn't end too well.

@36 Well, should've never transferred it to them whilst they were part of the USSR.

Anonymous BBGKB February 24, 2017 1:43 PM  

Russia does not want Ukraine, because Ukraine is an expensive disaster

Would it still be expensive if Soros didn't steal 33 tons of the Ukraine's gold?

I've noticed that a lot of people inside the Beltway haven't realized the Cold War is over.

The real global warming deniers.

Anonymous fop February 24, 2017 1:46 PM  

@29 Ukraine IS literally a Nazi state.

This is your brain.... this is your brain on Huffington Post.

Any questions?

Anonymous Nick February 24, 2017 1:46 PM  

Ukraine is a disaster because of Russia, a century of Russian genocide, imperialism, corruption and theft. It was stupid of America to get mixed up in Ukraine, but Russia isn't an innocent victim. The average Ukrainian doesn't need to be propagandized to have utter contempt for Russia and the havoc its wreaked on their country. When the Alt-Right is called "Nazi" it's a transparent lie, but when Russia (and trolls and useful idiots) use the same term against Ukraine, it's not seen for the age-old Soviet propaganda that it is?

"The only way Russia is going to attack Ukraine is if..." What are you talking about? Russia attacked Ukraine three years ago. They are still fighting there now.

Putin is one of the greatest Mafia bosses in history and perhaps the richest person on earth because he and his associates have robbed their own country blind. Just because he isn't a globalist like Soros, doesn't mean he's an ally of the West or a model to emulate. No war with Russia AND no turning your back on Russia, you'll end up face down in a pool of your own blood.

Blogger Elder Son February 24, 2017 1:59 PM  

@28 I am also betting you typed that under your school desk as the freedumb bells rang.

Russia is not in Ukraine, except for a few "vacationers". The vast majority are Ukrainians of Russian descent. And, the Ukie-Nazi's certainly are not "repeatedly beaten that ass on the battlefield".

I'm thinking you have been reading to much EuroMaiden Press.

And it is a laughingly repeated refrain from the various Ukraine .gov/Pro-Ukraine Twitter accounts that "Russia has invaded Ukraine"! Hogwash. CIA/NATO psyops.

Blogger Johnny February 24, 2017 2:02 PM  

>>Putin is one of the greatest Mafia bosses in history and perhaps the richest person on earth because he and his associates have robbed their own country blind.

@40 Well, no. The country was robbed before Putin ever came to power. Gorbachev followed by Yeltsin gave away the state assets for pennies on the dollar or worse. Probably the biggest giveaway of public assets in history. The reasons were (take your pick) stupidity, corruption, or the need to act quickly owing to the desperate nature of the situation.

As I have never seen a documentation of Putin's wealth, I suspect the numbers given are pure fantasy. What is certain is that Russia is culturally corrupt with serious internal organized crime, and Putin has had his hands in the till. How much? Alleged to be a gazillion gazillion billion rubles by the anti Putin crowd.

Blogger VD February 24, 2017 2:06 PM  

You're banned, Steven Davidson. All you ever do is try to lie about Ukraine. Go away and don't come back.

"The only way Russia is going to attack Ukraine is if..." What are you talking about? Russia attacked Ukraine three years ago. They are still fighting there now.

You're a moron. Russia would take Kiev in 10-14 days according to every Western military analysis I've seen. The only reason they haven't is because they don't want it.

Blogger Elder Son February 24, 2017 2:16 PM  

Actually, Putin has done a pretty good job of ousting the worst of the oligarchs. Those that are left, for the most part, were convinced to work for Russia.

Try typing: Oligarch Putin Meeting - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Oligarch+Putin+Meeting&FORM=RESTAB

Putin Calls Billionaire Oligarchs "Cockroaches" For Closing Factory Live On Camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GsDLrUieJg

Blogger Benjamin Kraft February 24, 2017 2:18 PM  

@28. Stephen, who do you think you're kidding?

Anonymous ZhukovG February 24, 2017 2:26 PM  

@VD: Exactly, Russia's economy couldn't handle the expense of trying to fix Ukraine.

Crimea was the prize; it has now returned home. Putting that right is expensive enough.

Blogger Elder Son February 24, 2017 2:41 PM  

Crimea (Sevastopol) "was the prize" for US/NATO. Putin smiled and winked.

Ukraine is just the US/NATO missing link to more fully buffer Russia's border, for reasons I won't rehash.

And Russia's economy isn't as bad as one wants you to think, it's in the top 5. Russia just doesn't want Ukraine. Things are so bad in Ukraine right now, there is a massive black-market of Ukrainians selling "illegal Cigarettes" just to survive.

Anonymous Clay February 24, 2017 3:16 PM  

I'm not saying Russia will "attack", Ukraine....but it is a pretty strategic and resourceful piece of territory. (Wasn't Stalin Ukranian, by birth?)

If I was Putin. I'd snake my way, any way I could, to get a hold on the Ukraine. For the seaports alone.

Anonymous ZhukovG February 24, 2017 3:26 PM  

@Clay: I believe Stalin was Georgian. Khrushchev was Ukrainian and was responsible for Crimea being taken from Russian SSR and given to Ukrainian SSR.

Eventually Russia, Hungary and Poland may all take pieces off the rotting mass that is Ukraine. Russia getting the lion's, or rather bear's, share.

Anonymous Clay February 24, 2017 3:30 PM  

You're right when your right ZukhovG. My bad, and thanks. Thanks for the info, too.

Anonymous Clay February 24, 2017 3:38 PM  

BTW, ZukhovG....from all outward appearances, Ukraine would seem to be a prosperous country....why are they not?

Is it like Africa, a whole continent, is still a shithole?

I just don't get why people with so many resources just stagnate.

Anonymous james@wpc February 24, 2017 3:48 PM  

"Is it like Africa, a whole continent, is still a shithole?

I just don't get why people with so many resources just stagnate."


Ukraine is run by (((oligarchs))) every bit as bad as the (((oligarchs))) that ran Russia until Putin defanged them.

The (((oligarchs))) are psychopaths and psychopaths can only steal. They cannot create. That is not their nature.

That is why Ukraine is a shithole and will remain a shithole until it completely collapses.

Anonymous ZhukovG February 24, 2017 3:50 PM  

@Clay: It is interesting isn’t it? When the Soviet Union went Tango Uniform, Ukraine was the wealthiest part. But as with Russia there was a ‘fire sale’ of government enterprises to wealthy speculators. So Ukraine fell under the thrall of ‘oligarchs’ just like Russia. Two things seem to have kept Ukraine from recovering:

1. They never had a leader like Vladimir Putin to ‘clean house’. Just pro-West or pro-Russian scumbags.
2. They have the misfortune of being used as a tool in the Neocon attempts to subjugate Russia.

This has left Ukraine with an economy that is rivaled by some sub-Saharan African countries. And people question why the Crimean vote to rejoin Russia was so one-sided.

OpenID vfmshadow0342 February 24, 2017 3:58 PM  

@39

Two words: Stepan Bandera.

The man worked for 'literally' Hitler, and is a hero of Ukraine
and the EuroMaiden movement.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Stepan_Bandera

Putin is no saint, but better than that guy.

@VD: is there some sort of restriction with posting / using another browser other than Brave? Just curious, thank you.

Blogger Silly But True February 24, 2017 4:36 PM  

Looks like Ustazi needs to crack down on all of the Erisca Garnerskis that are taking food out of Ukrainian babies' mouths due to lost cigarette tax revenue.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr February 24, 2017 5:05 PM  

Putin has been taking advantage of U.S. and NATO weakness to recover territory/power lost in the breakup of the Soviet Union. The problem is that the Soviets left a LOT of bad memories in the former Soviet states. As to Ukraine, I suspect the Crimea (not part of the historic Ukraine) is forfeit. The only question are the terms.

Blogger Billy Ray February 24, 2017 5:22 PM  

Russia only wants to keep Ukrainian nat gas off the market. A large transshipment point/pumping station for Russian gas to Western Europe is located in Ukraine. This facility sits atop a YUGE nat gas reservoir. Russia destabilizes Ukraine, Ukraine can’t tap this field. If it could, it would pump its own gas to Europe and cut off Russian supplies, which means no cash for putey pute. So putey funds the rebels just enough to keep Ukraine off balance and the cash flowing to him and his oligarch buddies.
So alt you alt right type who think putey pute is awesome need to learn that his hands are just as bloody as everyone elses.

Anonymous ZhukovG February 24, 2017 5:31 PM  

@Billy Ray: At least when Davenport lied he was somewhat eloquent about it.

Your post on the other hand is one of the most pig ignorant, illogical, inaccurate ‘vowel movements’ I have ever had the misfortune of reading.

Anonymous Silly but True February 24, 2017 5:54 PM  

@Billy Ray,
Do you not understand you and Trump share the exact same view: "There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?"

In case you didn't see the interview, Trump did not say Putin's hands are clean, rather they are bloody. Just as bloody as everyone else's.

Anonymous Bobby Farr February 24, 2017 5:56 PM  

Sad that so many here parrot the "Nazi" name calling as though it proves a point. It is possible to support Ukrainian nationalism and despise the permanent cultural destruction the Soviets wrought in Eastern Europe through ethnic cleansing, Russification and redrawing borders while also opposing the neocon warmongering and Russophobia of our globalist leaders.

Anonymous ZhukovG February 24, 2017 6:21 PM  

@Bobby Farr: Russian writers using the pejorative, ‘Nazi’ when referring to Ukrainian Nationalist is good rhetoric. You see, many of the Ukrainian Nationalists are, in fact, Nazis and these guys make American Alt-Right Nazi LARPers look about as edgy as an Amish quilting bee.

Since many Ukrainians, particularly in the southern and eastern parts of the country had Grandfathers and Great Grandfathers that fought Germans as part of the Soviet Army, this creates discomfort over support for the current Neocon puppet regime in Kiev.

It also helps drive a wedge between the Kiev government and many Europeans.

Anonymous Clay February 24, 2017 6:37 PM  

Please try not to be mean, Mr.ZukhovG.

You should watch the Andy Griffith Show series.

Maybe you will love to kill Aunt Bee:)

Blogger Abyssus Invocat February 24, 2017 7:30 PM  

Short answer to VD's title question is : Because it is not necessary nor would serve Russia's national interests. Seizing Crimea was utterly predictable to anyone who has the slightest knowledge of Russian grand strategy and history.

Blogger Elder Son February 24, 2017 7:36 PM  

A30B Azov: Faithful successors of German Nazis. A volunteer militia so loved by the Ukraine government, it was incorporated into the Ukraine National Guard.

Not limited to the Azov Battalion.

Just one of many pictures: http://impiousdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/azov-ukraine-1024x576.jpg

Blogger Silly But True February 24, 2017 8:07 PM  

I'm not sure which fecks less: Obama's Libya policy, Obama's Syria policy, or Obama's Russia policy?

Anonymous Clay February 24, 2017 10:58 PM  

OK, ZukhovG,....go ahead and bust some ass.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 25, 2017 1:44 AM  

Putin has been taking advantage of U.S. and NATO weakness to recover territory/power lost in the breakup of the Soviet Union.
Simply false. Do you think that if he wanted to take Ukraine we could or would do anything to stop him?
The Red Army could capture Estonia in an afternoon. We'd lob some missiles.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 25, 2017 1:49 AM  

Well, thats a hell of a brain fart.
I meant Russian Army

Anonymous Nick February 25, 2017 4:02 AM  

VD wrote:You're banned, Steven Davidson. All you ever do is try to lie about Ukraine. Go away and don't come back.

"The only way Russia is going to attack Ukraine is if..." What are you talking about? Russia attacked Ukraine three years ago. They are still fighting there now.

You're a moron. Russia would take Kiev in 10-14 days according to every Western military analysis I've seen. The only reason they haven't is because they don't want it.


The Russian military was behind the War in Donbass. Of course they could take Kiev if they wanted to, and probably much faster than 10-14 days. Just because they didn't conduct a full-scale invasion doesn't mean they didn't already attack Ukraine. An occupation wouldn't be in their interest. Their entire MO is plausible deniability, claiming that local forces and activists initiated the war and the annexation of Crimea, when in fact it was Russian special forces. Fourth-generation warfare right?

https://infogalactic.com/info/War_in_Donbass#Russian_involvement
https://infogalactic.com/info/Russian_military_deception#Crimea_and_Ukraine.2C_2014

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 25, 2017 4:36 AM  

Nick wrote:Their entire MO is plausible deniability, claiming that local forces and activists initiated the war and the annexation of Crimea, when in fact it was Russian special forces. Fourth-generation warfare right?
Russia never denied they took Crimea. That was a specific, calculated move.
The rest of Ukraine, though, they don't want. They also don't need to invade or attack it. There are plenty of ethnic Russians in Ukraine that hate the Govt, hate the Ukie Nazis, hate the corrupt Ukies, and hate the government that they were deliberately denied a voice in.
All Russia had to do was supply ammo and intel. Locals took care of the rest. It's not like they need to rise to the heights of military professionalism to beat their opponents.
Given that the destruction of Ukraine is a US project, bought and paid for by our spy services, are the Russians not allowed to counter us? Or are they supposed to patiently sit through their raping, like the EU countries do?
One more point, if we can supply mercenaries, Poland can supply mercenaries, EU can supply mercenaries, Israel can supply mercenaries, why can Russia not supply mercenaries?

Anonymous Nick February 25, 2017 7:16 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Nick wrote:Their entire MO is plausible deniability, claiming that local forces and activists initiated the war and the annexation of Crimea, when in fact it was Russian special forces. Fourth-generation warfare right?

Russia never denied they took Crimea. That was a specific, calculated move.

The rest of Ukraine, though, they don't want. They also don't need to invade or attack it. There are plenty of ethnic Russians in Ukraine that hate the Govt, hate the Ukie Nazis, hate the corrupt Ukies, and hate the government that they were deliberately denied a voice in.

All Russia had to do was supply ammo and intel. Locals took care of the rest. It's not like they need to rise to the heights of military professionalism to beat their opponents.

Given that the destruction of Ukraine is a US project, bought and paid for by our spy services, are the Russians not allowed to counter us? Or are they supposed to patiently sit through their raping, like the EU countries do?

One more point, if we can supply mercenaries, Poland can supply mercenaries, EU can supply mercenaries, Israel can supply mercenaries, why can Russia not supply mercenaries?


Once again, the Russian military attacked Ukraine in mid-2014. Whether or not one thinks it was justified due to US influence on Maidan is irrelevant to it having happened. Attacking is not the same as invading and occupying the whole country. If trying to assert basic facts like this leads to ad hominem attacks then seeking the truth of the situation is obviously not the main point.

As for the ethnic Russians there, where did they come from? Russia! Generations of calculated Soviet policy to colonize and Russify Ukraine. Why should ethnic Russians have a voice in the Ukrainian government? (setting aside the fact that Soviet Russia ran Ukraine for most of its existence) It would be ludicrous to assert that Mexicans in the U.S. deserve a voice in the government, but Russian colonists in Ukraine and their descendants should have their own separate government? Why shouldn't Ukraine have control of its own destiny as a sovereign nation, free from the control of nearly a century of Russian agents?

I'm friends with a Polish volunteer who fought for the Ukrainian side. Neither he nor anyone in his unit was paid, they were not mercenaries: http://researchteacher.com/a-polish-volunteer-on-ukraines-eastern-front-part-1/ They did however capture mercenaries from Central Asia who had been promised payment.

I have both Ukrainian and Russian friends, all of the ones I know are good people. Unfortunately they have very corrupt leaders. The Alt-Right's admiration for the Russian government purely for being enemies with globalists is misplaced and ahistorical.

Blogger ArviK February 25, 2017 8:40 AM  

I'm from Eastern Europe. Nobody has great love for Russia in eastern bloc countries. I had to fake not knowing russian language to get locals in Poland and Latvia to talk to me.

I could make so make many arguments in support of Ukraine, but i'll make only one. In 90.s Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal in exchange for a promise, ill copy it here:

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

So there you have it, lesson in history.

I also don't get alt-rights love for Russia at all. Russia likes christian values?? Like in Chechnia yes? Kadyrov and Putin are best pals, without Putin Chechnia would be free country. How are christian ideals doing in that country? Or do you think that under leader like Putin your women would respect you more and you'd get laid more ofter, or your efforts as honest family man would get rewarderd by your hot submissive wife?

Blogger sepel hos February 25, 2017 8:55 AM  

http://tik8.mihanblog.com/ do u wanna share link with me?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 25, 2017 1:48 PM  

ArviK wrote:In 90.s Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal in exchange for a promise, ill copy it here:

Because that would have been a good reason to take them down and take the damn things from them. The promise was a lie, and the carrot used to get them to surrender the (Russian built) bombs was economic integration into Europe. But Economic integration, even into a system as corrupt as the EU, requires some adherence to law and some chance of ethical behavior, neither of which seem to be available in the Ukie Government.

ArviK wrote:without Putin Chechnia would be free country. How are christian ideals doing in that country?
Given that that province is a Moslem satrapy full of savages and terrorists, Christian ideals were never on the table. Civilized warfare is for civilized societies. After Beslan, Russia would have been justified in cleansing the ground, forcing conversion, executing any who refused the cross, and starting over.

Blogger ArviK February 25, 2017 2:44 PM  

So what's your point Snidely? So it was okay to lie to Ukraine yes?

And what about Chechnia? It became hellhole after first Chechen war in 90s. And if they are muslims then its OK to beat them with a stick yes?

What makes it okay then to invade other countries? "Might is Right"? Every country that was messed with by Russia, or USA or China turns to shithole. Big countries playing geopolitical games in other small countries.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 25, 2017 3:59 PM  

ArviK wrote:So it was okay to lie to Ukraine yes?
Governments lie. It's what governments do.
So,if Ukraine had nukes, would they have used them by now? Would Donbass be a radioactive crater?
You know they would. And that's why Ukraine can't have nukes. If it took lies to get them, then I'm glad they lied.

And what about Chechnia? It became hellhole after first Chechen war in 90s. And if they are muslims then its OK to beat them with a stick yes?
Essentially, yes. Any group that is dedicated to destroying my civilization, to killing me and my family if we don't submit, that is fundamentally opposed to Truth and freedom, yes. Any group that thinks it's okay to come into my country as a refugee, live on my money for years, displacing my countrymen, and then set a bomb to kill as many innocent people as possible needs to die.
In pain.
Alone.
In the rain.
And knowing they've failed utterly and forever.

You seem to think this is one-sided. And group that thinks it's a good idea to invade a school and kill hundreds of children needs, not to be beaten with a stick, it needs to be excised, like a tumor.

You evidently seem to think Christians are cucks who will swallow this sort of outrageous violence and then denounce themselves for being insufficiently loving.

Fuck you. There is no sympathy for Chenyans here.

What makes it okay then to invade other countries?
You acknowledged earlier there was no invasion, now you imply an invasion.Because you're dishonest and butthurt.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 25, 2017 4:02 PM  

ArviK wrote:Every country that was messed with by Russia, or USA or China turns to shithole. Big countries playing geopolitical games in other small countries.
The last time Ukraine wasn't a shithole was when it was completely controlled by Russians. It was also the first time.
Chechnya has never not been a shithole. That's because it's full of Chechnyans. Nothing the Russians did or could have done was going to change that, except forced conversions and mild genocide.

Blogger ArviK February 25, 2017 4:40 PM  

Can you back up any of your claims with some logic or citation? Ukraine would of nuked Donbass... why? Ukraine was better under Russia... how why what??? Like in 40-s Holomodor? Or under USSR? Ohh boy life sure was good, couldn't buy pair of jeans or sausage from stores. Had to wait half a day to buy bread, in fucking 1980-s

Everybody hated life under Russia. Corruption everywhere, food shortages, corrupt police. Most prestigious profession was traffic police officer, because of bribes.

Your post is so riddled with "Truth and freedom", "christian values", "defend", "refugees". It sounds so hollow after you talk that chechens had it coming. Yeah, sure they did, they deserved to get bombed back to stoneage and live under Kadyrov whos building hes own private islamic state there.

What is this "Truth and freedom" you keep talking about?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 25, 2017 5:01 PM  

ArviK wrote:Everybody hated life under Russia. Corruption everywhere, food shortages, corrupt police. Most prestigious profession was traffic police officer, because of bribes.
And independence has improved it, ... how exactly?
Face it, Ukrainians are unfit to rule themselves. They've demonstrated it time and again.

ArviK wrote:What is this "Truth and freedom" you keep talking about?
I figured the concepts would be foreign to you. Jesus is Truth. Chechnya doesn't have Him. Freedom comes from Christ, and Chechnya can't have it because they reject Him.
So they will live under a series of authoritarian autocrats, just like every other Moslem country in the world. Some worse, and some better.

ArviK wrote:It sounds so hollow after you talk that chechens had it coming. Yeah, sure they did, they deserved to get bombed back to stoneage and live under Kadyrov whos building hes own private islamic state there.
Moslems are not capable of living within a free society, and so far as I have observed, most don't want to. As far as "building his own Islamic State", that's what Moslems want.

You're the one who keeps bringing in "Christian values", I don't even consider it a relevant concept.

Blogger ArviK February 25, 2017 5:30 PM  

Well here you are: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp. Until 2014 war they were doing allright. I can give you charts for other countries also. Countries who got their independence back without war from Russia.

But you keep parroting about somekind of abstract "values", that make it allright to invade other countries. What is it then? "Christ", "family", "freedom", belief in your own country exceptionalism, your emotionally loaded words that you so easily spit out?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash February 25, 2017 9:03 PM  

ArviK wrote:But you keep parroting about somekind of abstract "values", that make it allright to invade other countries.
No, that's YOUR argument. Or rather, that's the only argument you're prepared to argue, so you keep hallucinating that I've made it.
Since "I don't believe it's a relative concept" didn't make it into the tiny space your incredibly thick skull leaves for your tiny brain, let me say it yet more emphatically. I don't believe in "Christian values". It's meaning is null. They don't exist. Is that clear enough for you?

Those other countries that got their independence without war from Russia, you will also note that they, unlike Ukraine, did not make war on their ethnically Russian citizens.

The only word on your list that isn't a pure hallucination on your part is "freedom", which I used when I asserted that Chechnya will never be free because Chechens are, like every culturally Moslem nation, not capable of living in freedom.

I don't know what Eastern European country you're from, most Ukrainians I've known are a lot smarter than you, but it's obvious you hate Russians, we get that. And I'm sure you have good reasons to hate them.
But excuse us if we decline to enter into your emotional meltdown. Literally nobody on Earth cares about Ukraine. Nobody in America, nobody in Europe, certainly not the parasite that serves as a simulation of a Ukrainian government. If Putin wanted to take the place, he would already have it, and nobody would do anything about it. It's just that Ukraine is such a basket case that it would cost him far more than it's worth.

Blogger ArviK February 26, 2017 2:42 AM  

You're the one whos having a meltdown. I asked you how was Russia justified in invading Chechnia and Ukraine, you answered me that chechnians are not fit to govern themselves and Ukraine is corrupt and evil and etc.

My initial point was that Putin deserves no sympathy. Want citations for that? Like how blogging is monitored in Russia, how oposition leaders are harassed, chess grandmaster Gasparov living in exile.

I dont hate russians, i hate Putin and russian warhawks. None of my russian friends actually think that chechens deserve to live under Kadyrov.

Blogger Tom Kratman February 26, 2017 12:05 PM  

We don't need to go to war with Russia, however Iran needs a dose of the Carthage treatment followed by a partition that will leave the Persians dirt poor.

What was that? Oh, because I can hold a grudge; that's why.

Blogger Akulkis February 26, 2017 2:15 PM  

@74 ArviK

I'm 1/4 Ukrainian. Lying to the Ukrainian government -- it's something those corrupt asshats deserve. Ukraine has been a den of iniquity since the descendants of modern-day Russia started fleeing north to escape Kievan Rus'. The only people who stayed behind in and around Kiev are those who were and are comfortable with complete lawlessness.

Blogger Elder Son February 26, 2017 2:55 PM  

Seriously, I wouldn't trust the Ukraine SBU, or the U.S. State Dept. to tell the truth after spending 5 Billion USD to destabilize Ukraine and install US/NATO puppet Porky Poroshenko.

The Ukraine SBU says. The State Dept. says.

Our only interest in Ukraine is to create a military buffer, through Ukraine, directly on Russia's border just like we have through all the other E. European borders with Russia. It's only purpose it to militarily pressure Russia from getting involved in our ongoing adventures in the M.E. and Persia as part of our "7 countries in 5 years plan".

The Sunni Saudi Coalition and Turkey, with the backing of USNATO still has eyes on Syria and Iran to create a greater Sunni Caliphate. Then, you'll see those "friends of Israel" turn.

Russia has it's interests, which doesn't mean our motives are pure as some want to believe because Muh USA.

Anonymous Clay February 27, 2017 1:03 AM  

At one time, I think Ukraine thought they had scored big-time by claiming a chunk of the Russian Black Seas Fleet. (Something they couldn't maintain.)

Once Russia took over Crimea again, it's my understanding they got most of their usable vessels back, and a large amount of senior Ukrainian officers went over to the Russian side.

I suppose they're still pissed about that.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts