ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2017 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Monday, March 06, 2017

Mike Cernovich - Sam Harris debate

Cerno has accepted Harris's challenge:
Sam Harris, who said on Joe Rogan’s podcast that Hillary Clinton would win the election (and also that Trump “terrified” him) wants to debate me....

One topic could be this: How could Sam Harris support Hillary Clinton when it’s Clinton who wanted to import radical Islam into the U.S. with her open borders policy?

Whatever, I accept Sam’s debate challenge. I suggest Dave Rubin of the Rubin Report moderate it on neutral territory.
Interesting that Harris's fans want him to debate Mike. They probably underestimate him; I have no doubt at all that they don't want him to debate me. I doubt Mike will have much trouble with him, though. Mike is smarter than most people think, and Sam, although smart enough, is very intellectually careless, and habitually leaves very large holes in his arguments.

I would expect Mike to be able to spot those holes without too much difficulty.

Labels:

74 Comments:

Blogger Aleksander Pierchalski March 06, 2017 2:13 PM  

Did he ask for $10,000 to be given to charity?

Blogger IrishFarmer March 06, 2017 2:14 PM  

He waved it due to Harris' larger platform.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 06, 2017 2:14 PM  

I am not sure that Dave Rubin is exactly a neutral party, but I guess it is exceedingly hard to find someone that everyone would agree is neutral.

Blogger Some Dude March 06, 2017 2:20 PM  

Harris is defending hilary? Cicero couldnt defend hilary. Terrible topic to defend even if your opponent was intellectually disabled.

In fact if harris had no opponent and just the mod asking qs it would soubd bad.

Blogger Beau March 06, 2017 2:23 PM  

Watching Sam Harris debate is like watching a drunk pontificate with a cigarette in his hand during an excruciatingly vapid cocktail party.

Anonymous Bryan King March 06, 2017 2:25 PM  

Heard Cernovich say on his live stream last night that Harris backed out...

Anonymous Stickwick March 06, 2017 2:39 PM  

Beau: Watching Sam Harris debate is like watching a drunk pontificate with a cigarette in his hand during an excruciatingly vapid cocktail party.

Heh, yes, but it's all relative. I watched Harris "debate" Ben Affleck on Bill Maher's show, and it was a little unnerving to see Harris come across as the far superior intellect.

-----

Vox, I wanted to tell you I've been enjoying your Darkstreams. There are lots of people out there offering astute commentary, but one thing that differentiates you from the others is that, no matter how bad things look, you give reasons to be hopeful. You said in your last Darkstream that some people fall prey to the Left's demoralization campaigns, and you're right -- I'm one of those pessimistic types who gets overwhelmed by negativity sometimes. That's why it's so encouraging to see you remain positively steadfast in the midst of all the craziness and give us reasons to be of good cheer. It's much appreciated.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 06, 2017 2:41 PM  

@5 Beau
Watching Sam Harris debate is like watching a drunk pontificate with a cigarette in his hand during an excruciatingly vapid cocktail party.

Even that drunk would know better than to defend Hillary.

@6
Heard Cernovich say on his live stream last night that Harris backed out...

If true that would be typical.

Blogger S. Misanthrope March 06, 2017 2:44 PM  

Cernovich already said on twitter that Harris backed out. Mensch tweeted she wants to debate Mike now. If you want that happen, tweet at Mike.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 06, 2017 2:46 PM  

Mensch tweeted she wants to debate Mike now.

Teh LuLz! She could even share a brain with Ben Affleck as backup.

Anonymous Bryan King March 06, 2017 2:46 PM  

Mike talks about it at 12:00 min in here

https://youtu.be/Ang1hvuXW2c

Blogger JWM in SD March 06, 2017 2:48 PM  

Mensch tweeted she wants to debate Mike now.

Teh LuLz! She could even share a brain with Ben Affleck as backup.

The same topic of debate (Hitlery & open borders)?

Blogger Kentucky Headhunter March 06, 2017 2:48 PM  

The choice between Hillary and Trump was the choice between Satan and not-Satan. Don't see how that gets argued.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 06, 2017 2:52 PM  


The same topic of debate (Hitlery & open borders)?


Who cares? Louise is such a fleabrain she'll drag the topic all over the place anyway. Maybe Cerno can get her to double down on Theodore Herzl's anti-Semitism! For the lulz!

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 06, 2017 2:53 PM  


The same topic of debate (Hitlery & open borders)?


Who cares? Louise is such a fleabrain she'll drag the topic all over the place anyway. Maybe Cerno can get her to double down on Theodore Herzl's anti-Semitism! For the lulz!

Blogger Buybuydandavis March 06, 2017 2:57 PM  

Harris flaked.

Not a big loss. The whole affair was a dick swinging contest. Not that that can't have some entertainment value, but it was a rather empty "challenge"; they hadn't ever identified a topic for the debate.

https://twitter.com/SamHarrisOrg/status/838566254017335296

@SamHarrisOrg
As B. Russell once said, "never debate a man who is covered in his own jizz." It's a high standard, Mike. Sorry.

@Cernovich
I Accept @SamHarrisOrg’s Debate Challenge

Blogger Peter Jackson March 06, 2017 2:57 PM  

I'm a regular listener to Sam's podcast; I agree with him on many things, but man, he's way off the mark on Trump. He's had a parade of "Republican" cucks on of late; the last one being David Frum-- a guy who calls himself a Republican but is clearly cheerleading for Trump's failure, if for no other reason that to make his pre-election predictions seem relevant.

Blogger Kentucky Headhunter March 06, 2017 2:58 PM  

Of course my wife (sigh) was like, "But Trump might pull us out of the Paris Environmental blah blah blah" to which I replied, "Hillary wants to get us into a shooting war with Russia, (sotto voce) you idiot".

Blogger The Kurgan March 06, 2017 3:03 PM  

Beau
+1000

Anonymous grumblr March 06, 2017 3:04 PM  

Sam Harris is a vapid punk. "Debate"? That's like 'debating', well, a ski lift. Hmm, why did I choose that particular image?

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 06, 2017 3:11 PM  

@17 Peter Jackson
I'm a regular listener to Sam's podcast;

Why? Penance, or some other need to suffer?

I agree with him on many things,

Like what?

but man, he's way off the mark on Trump. He's had a parade of "Republican" cucks on of late; the last one being David Frum-- a guy who calls himself a Republican but is clearly cheerleading for Trump's failure, if for no other reason that to make his pre-election predictions seem relevant.

Cuckservative (((David Frum))) is well known around here, and I for one follow the lead of Jerry Pournelle in referring to that cuck as "The odious Frum", for good reasons.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 06, 2017 3:15 PM  

@17 Kentucky Headhunter
Of course my wife (sigh)

Do you read Alpha Game?

was like, "But Trump might pull us out of the Paris Environmental blah blah blah" to which I replied, "Hillary wants to get us into a shooting war with Russia, (sotto voce) you idiot".

"You idiot" is overkill, a simple Dear delivered with a smirk should be good enough.

Explained to a couple of Gen Z's the other day what Hillary's "No fly zone" over Syria would have likely led to, and then asked them if they'd filled out their Selective Service paperwork or not. Dialectic plus rhetoric.

Anonymous Eduardo March 06, 2017 3:21 PM  

I ove Sam Harris DeucheBaggery: "Are you afraid bro boohoo!"

Yep... has changed nothing from his Neo-Atheist days.

I hope Cernovich smashes Sam just to remind him he is an idiot in more things he talks about.

Anonymous Roundtine March 06, 2017 3:40 PM  

Sam Harris sounds like a Bernie Bro in his tweets, using the language of toxic masculinity. This is very disturbing. Very problematic.

Anonymous Allabaster March 06, 2017 3:42 PM  

After the job Wlc did on him a few years back im surprised he would be willing to debate anybody.

Blogger JWM in SD March 06, 2017 3:47 PM  

"But Trump might pull us out of the Paris Environmental blah blah blah"

I would have said: "Yes, and ?"

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents March 06, 2017 3:50 PM  

@21 Roundtine
Sam Harris sounds like a Bernie Bro in his tweets, using the language of toxic masculinity. This is very disturbing. Very problematic.



Yes, the first thing Cernovich should do is demand Harris check his white, male privilege. Because problematic and intersectionality.

Blogger Eric Slate March 06, 2017 3:55 PM  

The real cause of many people's objections to Trump is a visceral dislike of the man. This is understandable as he has trained his entire life to psychologically dominate others effectively.

Atheists are first among people to decide that they act totally based on logic, so their worldview will not permit them to analyze their own visceral nature.

Anonymous Yann March 06, 2017 4:05 PM  

@16

I'm a regular listener to Sam's podcast; I agree with him on many things, but man, he's way off the mark on Trump.

Harris has been quite aggressive when it comes to Islam, so probably he's trying to avoid the label "nazi" by attacking Trump. Yeap, a bit disappointing, but he's still a guy with very interesting things to say. He lacks some confidence though that lead him to some contradictions.

But even with his flaws, he's somebody that's worth hearing.

Anonymous Vin March 06, 2017 4:14 PM  

Forgive me while I dream out loud.

'Tonight on Pay per View, the debate of the decade:

Milo Yiannapolis vs Vox Day

Proposition: Civic Nationalism is a lie

Moderated by Stefan Molyneux

All PPV profits donated to the Trump 2020 campaign

Blogger Lovekraft March 06, 2017 4:16 PM  

When is the Sargon vs Dorsey debate going to happen?

Anonymous Just Saying... March 06, 2017 4:21 PM  

Harris: "But the Holocaust!"
Cernovich: "Not an argument."

Blogger Peter Jackson March 06, 2017 4:24 PM  

"I agree with him on many things,

Like what?"

We're both atheists.

We agree on the threat of radical Islam.

We agree that the new Left has jumped the shark on most everything, like calling anyone and everyone a "racist."

Anonymous Ironsides March 06, 2017 4:46 PM  

Mike Cernovich has endorsed a WeSearchr legal defense for Based Stick Man (Kyle Chapman) located here: https://www.wesearchr.com/bounties/based-stick-man-legal-defense-fund

Here's Cernovich's endorsement thereof:

https://www.dangerandplay.com/2017/03/06/based-stick-man-and-the-lefts-normalization-of-political-violence/

Blogger old man's breakfast March 06, 2017 5:07 PM  

Number 19. Harris is unlikely to be open minded enough to see that the aim is to find the truth. Yet, his gathering crave his offerings, and run to the hills with flags and 2x4s. Ours too. This occupied enemy territory that's called open debate is by now long far behind us. That's their terrible dawn, yet the horizon and our position on the world's surface is rushing to meet at the inevitable sun rise.

Blogger pyrrhus March 06, 2017 5:09 PM  

@15. Yes, that didn't last long.....It's kind of similar to global warming debates, which never happen because the warmists always pull out at the last minute.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 06, 2017 5:31 PM  

@31 Peter Jackson

We're both atheists.

Too bad for you.

We agree on the threat of radical Islam.

Well, let's look at this. Sam Harris has written words about the dangers of Islam. But the same Sam Harris supported Hillary Clinton who wanted to continue and even expand the 0bama "refugee" policy, so Sam Harris wants more Sunnis in the country. So he's in favor of importing more radical Islam, not opposed to that. It's insane to be alarmed by Islam on the one hand, and to support importing tens of thousands of Sunnis on the other hand.

How about you? Where do you stand on importing more Sunnis?

We agree that the new Left has jumped the shark on most everything, like calling anyone and everyone a "racist."

Where and when did he say that? I don't recall him ever having any kind of a problem with the Left over anything, except for their ongoing unrequited love affair with Mohammed's followers.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 06, 2017 5:35 PM  

https://infogalactic.com/info/Sam_Harris

Harris was born on April 9, 1967 in Los Angeles.[13] He was raised by a single mother since the age of two.[14] He is the son of actor Berkeley Harris and TV producer Susan Harris, who created The Golden Girls.[15] His father came from a Quaker background and his mother is Jewish.[16]

How did I miss that? The mtDNA doesn't fall far from the tree.
Yeah, I know, "secular upbringing", right, fine. How much of behavior is influenced by genetics, again?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 06, 2017 5:51 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 06, 2017 5:53 PM  

I meant to ask, Can Islam save Liberalism?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 06, 2017 6:17 PM  

Instead maybe one of our smarties debate "Crazy Screamer" oh she's a hoot.

Anonymous Eduardo March 06, 2017 7:19 PM  

@36

Oh come on 20 Cents, you didn't know THAT!!!!

Why you think he wanted to nuke the entire Arab people off the planet O_O!?!

Anonymous Clay March 06, 2017 7:20 PM  

There are a lot of deluded folks, here.

Blogger JWM in SD March 06, 2017 7:20 PM  

I'd be very cautious about following stick man's lead in this. A better approach is to flank them and start pulling off masks while recording. Then expose who they are later. Avoid weapons and just have shields for now. Focus on exposing and subduing for police...at least at this stage.

Anonymous Eduardo March 06, 2017 7:29 PM  

@42

My Latin blood does not allow for a flanking maneuver u_U!

Anonymous Eduardo March 06, 2017 7:34 PM  

Dear Ilk... here I have our uniforms

HERE

Blogger Thurston Pilgrim March 06, 2017 7:51 PM  

Well after Jordan Peterson ripped him a new orifice, he probably thinks this will be an easy debate and want to get a "win"under his belt.

Blogger Thurston Pilgrim March 06, 2017 7:53 PM  

@5 So it's like a Hitchens debate? lol

Blogger Vikki Wilson March 06, 2017 7:59 PM  

I've listened to Sam. Like Ben Shapiro, he's a highly rational human being who can't apprehend Trump's genius: he is a savant of human-media communication who operates on levels beyond reasoned argument. This makes him appear random, unpredictable or even insane to the likes of Sam.

Blogger tim March 06, 2017 8:29 PM  

Visual on point

Blogger tim March 06, 2017 8:47 PM  

The Tuscan mind creates optimism

Blogger tim March 06, 2017 8:48 PM  

Visual on point

Blogger Nagru March 06, 2017 8:57 PM  

Is there a tweet from Sam asking for a debate? It looks like Cernovich tried to initiate the debate all on his own, there were some insults exchanged between the two, and Sam wasn't interested.

Blogger Katechon March 06, 2017 9:27 PM  

Can't wait to listen to this debate, for I appreciate the work of both.

But why a moderator? Why not just a conversation between them?

Blogger Student in Blue March 06, 2017 9:38 PM  

@43. Eduardo
My Latin blood does not allow for a flanking maneuver u_U!

And here I thought those of the Latin blood were big on "flanks". Especially if they're big flanks.

Blogger Lazarus March 06, 2017 10:14 PM  

JWM in SD wrote:I'd be very cautious about following stick man's lead in this.

Your right. We do not need inspiration. We need a clever, measured response that will yield absolutely nothing of value.

Blogger Todd Brown March 06, 2017 11:23 PM  

Why won't Cernovich debate anyone from the alt-right?

Anonymous Eduardo March 06, 2017 11:42 PM  

@53

Well those flanks are more about "shape" than tactical movement!

FOR instace look at these reserve forces

We all know real victory is in frontal attack. Unless you are facing Hannibal...

Anonymous Duder March 07, 2017 2:03 AM  

You guys are delusional. Cernovitch has no debate experience and would get destroyed in a debate with Sam Harris.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 07, 2017 2:45 AM  

Duder wrote:Cernovitch has no debate experience and would get destroyed in a debate with Sam Harris.
Cernovich is a lawyer.
Sam Harris is a Dilettante.
Sam Harris is a pathetic loser.
And that's why Harris backed out.

Anonymous AmericanGraffiti March 07, 2017 2:56 AM  

Smarter than Affleck is a low bar.

Harris also looked spergy, as in, he didn't seem to understand how angry Affleck was. There's something "off" about Harris. Aspergers?

Anonymous AmericanGraffiti March 07, 2017 3:05 AM  

Harris's debate of Jordan Peterson was a complete waste of time. Harris's early lines of argument (including an appeal to his ivy league education and name dropping) were totally uninteresting. He (willfully?) talked past a sincere Peterson. But it may not have been willful. It could've been an asperger-like focus on a point of minutiae of interest only to Harris. I couldn't get past the first 30 minutes...

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 07, 2017 3:24 AM  

18. The Kurgan March 06, 2017 3:03 PM
Beau
+1000
absolutely ( lights bic )
Sambo bagged out, what else is new ?
Will Weezy stand and deliver ?
Will Mike pity the fool ?

Blogger Apotheosis Magazine March 07, 2017 3:51 AM  

Harris is also a slightly disingenuous philosopher.l I've noticed that he notes that some neuroscientific experiments, which could predict whether you would push a button on the left or on the right, were 100% correct in their predictions.

Not true, they were 70% correct. Which isn't that startling. Random guessing - at a baseline - statistically will get you 50%.

I agree with Harris's conclusions regarding our lack of free-will (for different reasons - not to be expanded here) but I shudder when he overplays an experiment to back up an argument. He does this because the likelihood is that the recipient will take his description of the experiment at face-value, and then proceeds to "win" the argument.

Blogger VD March 07, 2017 5:59 AM  

You guys are delusional. Cernovitch has no debate experience and would get destroyed in a debate with Sam Harris.

Sam Harris loses most of his debates. Cernovich might or might not win, but he would not get destroyed.

Why won't Cernovich debate anyone from the alt-right?

Why should he? If you are a trivial figure to whom no one pays any attention, it's of no benefit to the more popular figure. Very few people are generally willing to debate anyone for no reason behind the pleasure of crushing them.

Except me, of course.

You would have done better to ask why no one from the Alt-Right wants to debate me, especially any of those who claim I am not Alt-Right. And if you had, I would have pointed out that I am considerably smarter than any of them, that they know it, and they don't want to risk their vision of the Alt-Right being publicly shown up by mine.

Probably a good move on their part. But if a leading Alt-Right figure wants to debate white nationalism, national socialism, or whatever, I'm certainly willing to do so.

Blogger Roger Hill March 07, 2017 6:36 AM  

My atheist sister sent me Sam Harris' "Letter to a Christian Nation". Then my brother sent me Douglas Wilson response to Harris, "Letter From a Christian Citizen".
I found it somewhat startling the ease with which Wilson obliterated Harris' little book.

Blogger Peter Jackson March 07, 2017 10:10 AM  

"But the same Sam Harris supported Hillary Clinton"

His "support" was quite tepid, and only in a contest where the alternative was Trump, and he did acknowledge before the election that Trump was more correct than Clinton WRT Islamic immigration.

"How about you? Where do you stand on importing more Sunnis?"

I oppose it.

"Where and when did he say that?"

Do you listen to his podcast? If not, then you really shouldn't be commenting on his views.

Harris is a well spoken, intelligent guy. In time, I think he will come to see things our way.


Blogger VD March 07, 2017 11:20 AM  

Harris is a well spoken, intelligent guy. In time, I think he will come to see things our way.

No, he won't. He's insufficiently intellectually rigorous. I don't think he's actually dishonest, but he is very sloppy.

Blogger Peter Jackson March 07, 2017 2:17 PM  

"No, he won't. He's insufficiently intellectually rigorous. I don't think he's actually dishonest, but he is very sloppy."

So everyone in the Alt-Right is intellectually rigorous? I wouldn't call Donald Trump a scholar. He has street smarts and common sense; one need nothing more to see the folly of the Regressive Left.

Blogger Daniel Paul Grech Pereira March 07, 2017 6:30 PM  

Somebody get the ambulance on standby and forward them Sam's details.

Blogger Buybuydandavis March 08, 2017 4:58 AM  

Vin wrote:

'Tonight on Pay per View, the debate of the decade:
Milo Yiannapolis vs Vox Day
Proposition: Civic Nationalism is a lie
Moderated by Stefan Molyneux


I think a debate between Milo and Vox would be great.

But a political program is neither true nor false, anymore than "Let's go wash the car" is true or false.

I see a lot of the Alt-Right attacking Civic Nationalism, but I don't see an alternate program proposed.

Let Milo sell his vision, and Vox sell his, if he has one. (I don't mean that to be snippy, I just don't see that he has one. I think he might explicitly deny he has one.) A program for the US would probably be of most interest.


Blogger Esmar Tuek March 08, 2017 7:57 AM  

I listened to Sam Harris "debate" Jordan Peterson, dreadful. It doesn't seem that Sam is even remotely interested in debating Mike. I don't think it's a huge loss.

Blogger Rotting March 09, 2017 11:24 AM  

hahahaha Saw this a couple days ago so I googled the two names and debate. This apparently has origins of at least 4 months ago. But the funny part for anyone who makes it down this far.

Who is Mike Cernovich and why do people listen or care about what he says?

He's a neonazi and a conspiracy theory troll, trying to manipulate sad angry men on the internet in to paying him for.......

Blogger Peter Jackson March 09, 2017 12:42 PM  

"I listened to Sam Harris "debate" Jordan Peterson"

I heard that Podcast too and it was painful. They got way off track from anything interesting and I thought Peterson came off looking nonsensical.

Since I read your post I went back and listened to three or four hours of Jordan Peterson on YouTube. Now I think the man is a genius; thanks for turning me on to him.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts