ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2017 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Saturday, March 25, 2017

Ryancare goes down in flames

Not even the God-Emperor's intervention was enough to save it:
Following a day of drama in Congress yesterday, Friday was another nail-biter until the last moment, and after Trump's Thursday ultimatum failed to yield more "yes" votes, the embattled bill seeking to replace major parts of Obamacare was yanked Friday from the floor of the House.

As a result, Trump suffered a second consecutive blow as opposition from within his own party forced Republican leaders to cancel a vote on healthcare reform for the second time, casting doubt on the president’s ability to deliver on other priorities.

The withdrawal pointed to Trump's failure to charm republicans in the last minute, raising questions about whether he could unify Republicans behind his pro-growth legislative goals of tax reform and infrastructure spending.

NBC News reported that the President Donald Trump asked House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wisc., to pull the bill. A source told NBC that Ryan during visit to Trump at the White House earlier Friday afternoon had "pleaded to pull" the bill after telling the president that the GOP leaders had failed to convince enough House Republicans to support the bill.

Trump personally told Washington Post reporter Robert Costa about the move to avoid an embarrassing loss in the House during a phone call, Costa tweeted. "We just pulled it," Trump reportedly said to Costa.

A large number of GOP House members had declared their opposition to the bill since Thursday night. It was the second time in less than 30 hours that Republicans postponed a scheduled House vote on the American Health Care Act. Republicans could afford to lose at most 22 members of their caucus in the vote. But as of Friday afternoon, there were 34 GOP House member publicly opposing the bill.

Ryan visited Donald Trump at the White House at around 1 p.m. to inform him of the shortfall in support. The second delay was another humiliating setback for GOP leaders and Trump, who had thrown his weight behind the bill.

Trump on Thursday night demanded that the House vote on the plan on Friday, and said he would not agree to change the bill further than he already had in an effort to persuade wavering Republicans to back it.

Shortly after the president drew that line in the sand, GOP leaders amended the bill further to allow states, as opposed to the federal government, to mandate what essential health benefits have to be part of all insurance plans.

But as was the case on Thursday, GOP leaders knew Friday that if the vote occurred as scheduled, the bill would be defeated.
I think the key thing here is that the God-Emperor learns who his allies are. He should have been working with the conservative element in the House that voted against the act, not the Ryan-led mainstream element that was the core Republican opposition to him in the primaries.

This is going to be a little counterintuitive for a centrist negotiator like Trump, but he's just experienced the same thing that George W. Bush did whenever immigration reform was proposed. The core Republican power in the House is the conservatives, not the moderates. To get anything done, Trump has to work with them first.

Ultimately, this should be a good thing, because Trump always learns from his failures. That's why I don't put any stock in the "fatal blow to Trump's political capital" narrative that the opposition media will inevitably be pushing.

Labels: ,

173 Comments:

Blogger Dire Badger March 25, 2017 7:28 AM  

I think this is a blessing in disguise... Obamacare needs to be completely dismantled, not 'replaced with something better'.

The worst thing that could have happened would have been a concession to the Republicrats... If there's one thing we have learned, it is that when dealing with with Alinskyites, Traitors, and Globalists, Compromise is simply another word for surrender.

Blogger #7139 March 25, 2017 7:32 AM  

I don't know what to think right now. Sent an email to my Representative saying I supported the President if he wanted it passed but that I personally wanted Obamacare/Ryancare blasted to hell.

Anonymous Luke March 25, 2017 7:32 AM  

Everyone wants the restrictions on how much more older people have to pay for insurance compared to young people, and not letting insurance companies charge full costs for pre-existing conditions. Problem is, those two things alone are guaranteed to kill any medical insurance plan, whether or not the mandate is killed. If young broke healthy people get charged a fortune compared to how much they really cost to insure, loads of them won't get it. (Not just refuse, literally can't afford in many cases.) I don't think anyone has really explained all this to Trump.

Anonymous SugarPi March 25, 2017 7:33 AM  

"The man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"... some of the Republicans have "accepted" Trump against their will.

Blogger Beefy Levinson March 25, 2017 7:33 AM  

It's probably for the best in the long term. Obamacare is doomed to collapse, and this way there are no Republican fingerprints on it. I strongly doubt Ryan's Speakership will survive this which is an opportunity to replace him with someone better.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr March 25, 2017 7:37 AM  

1. This was clearly rushed legislation. Rush jobs don't turn out well. Go back and do it right.

2. The GOP conservatives have no faith in Ryan and Co. to deliver on a multi-part strategy. They're afraid of getting Obamacare Lite and being stuck with it.

3. Ryan is also overly concerned with Senate Dems. I don't care what you pass, they'll filibuster it. Leave that to the Senate to deal with.

4. The House Republicans need to be looking for a competent Speaker.

Anonymous WeAreTheWest March 25, 2017 7:41 AM  

Trump wasn't promoting Ryancare so much as he was promoting "the Republican fix". If that fix had been a simple repeal, he would have gone along with it.

Trump is well aware that there is a significant portion of the Republican base that wants Obamacare destroyed and not replaced with anything like Ryancare. He is also well aware that that base (us) is not very well represented in Congress.

Basically, Trump gave Ryan and the GOP traitors the rope to hang themselves, which they happily went and did.

Anonymous Casual March 25, 2017 7:42 AM  

I remember being so excited when I heard that Boner was stepping down from the speakership. I thought that maybe it meant we'd finally get someone who wouldn't give Obama everything he wanted. Instead, we got Paul "Just cuck my shit up" Ryan, and I finally realized that the Republicans as a party were absolutely worthless.

If all this is really a ploy to nuke Ryan and install someone who's aligned with Trump and what actual Americans want, I'm all for it.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr March 25, 2017 7:44 AM  

FWIW, I think the best approach is probably an expansion of the Federal Employee's system. They get a choice of insurances, pay a subsidized rate...but that rate is enough to make you shop around.

Start with that, then allow businesses and unions to try for bulk buys that lower rates. Then have a Minimum Care for people who don't buy insurance...catastrophic only. And THAT goes out for bids on a regional basis.

Pay with a flat rate tax.

Blogger Zarathustra's Bastard March 25, 2017 7:46 AM  

From the outside, American health care seems like an insanity. It's more expensive than public systems with more graft, but without universal coverage.

The system needs a total overhaul, but that's political suicide. Can anyone believe English speaking democracy will last another century?

Anonymous 360 March 25, 2017 7:51 AM  

How do you complain for 8 years about Obamacare and not have something ready to go out the gate? The Republicans were only morally posturing, the Cucks. Should of let Obamacare fail from the beginning.

I think the God-Emperor is right to move on to taxes. Either way he has managed to win. Obamacare isn't his fault and the repeal failing also isn't his fault.

Anonymous Jeff March 25, 2017 7:52 AM  

The God Emperor has looked very presidential throughout this whole healthcare situation.

Blogger DaveofSpades March 25, 2017 7:53 AM  

This was a horrible bill. It didn't really end Obamacare, it just tried to keep it but bail out the insurance companies. It was also written, supported, and pushed by the Graham, McCain/Ryan/cuck/enemies of Trump wing of the party. Finally, after being burned 1000 times, folks are wise to the "we're going to do what helps us in phase one but do what you guys want in later phases that will never actually happen" game.

Anonymous Rollory March 25, 2017 7:58 AM  

The bill was bad, and Trump threw his weight behind it without good reason to think it the effort would pay off, and without laying the groundwork to line up the votes beforehand.

Trying a hail mary pass like that is fine if you actually need to do it. They didn't need to do it. It was not and is not critical to pass this particular version of changes to Obamacare. Mike Lee had some very interesting things to say the other day about what the Senate parliamentarian says would be acceptable in terms of making changes that pass the Senate with a 51-vote majority; apparently nobody had even asked her about it until Senator Lee thought to. That's a big failure on the part of Trump and Ryan that probably contributed to getting them into this situation.

Best case, Trump gains psychic strength from defeat and comes back with a better attempt, lays the groundwork for something that will pass, and gets it through.

Worst case, Trump says "I'm done with these losers! Can't even get a basic reform through with a majority! Sad!" and makes nice with the left so he can be a winnah again.

I expect the left hates him too much to let him do that, but we'll see.

Anonymous Rollory March 25, 2017 8:02 AM  

@11

"From the outside, American health care seems like an insanity. It's more expensive than public systems with more graft, but without universal coverage."

This is purely and simply because the medical companies providing care have cartelized the entire market and are engaging in price-fixing schemes all over the place - which is explicitly contrary to the law - and absolutely no level of government has been willing to prosecute them for it or even admit it is happening.

It's that simple.

Blogger Dire Badger March 25, 2017 8:02 AM  

Rollory-
Do you really think Trump threw his weight behind it?

He laid down an ultimatum, knowing full well that the Globalist's pride would NOT allow them to accept it. Their next terms are now far from assured, and they will go down as the "assholes that refused to get rid of Obamacare when they had the opportunity."

Why do you keep assuming Trump's an idiot when EVERY STEP HE HAS taken has turned out to be groundwork for a much deeper game?

Anonymous vfm #0202 March 25, 2017 8:03 AM  

There is a homeomorphism between this and the Corroding / Collapsing story. May Kek send us predictable enemies!

Blogger tuberman March 25, 2017 8:03 AM  

Come on people, and I'm not talking to the Trolls, this was all to be expected. President Trump did not make any mistakes here, as it was the Ryan/GOPe/Uniparty plan.

The Chess goes on behind the scenes by the God-Emperor.

Anonymous Rollory March 25, 2017 8:09 AM  

Badger: I'm not assuming anything. You are.

I laid out a range possibilities that fit the available evidence so far. I wait for more evidence before drawing further conclusions.

As for a "deeper game", I remember exactly that argument being made at great length, and rather convincingly, regarding George W. Bush. This is a big part of why I wait for evidence before putting any faith in princes.

Anonymous W. Lindsay Wheeler March 25, 2017 8:19 AM  

The Republicans are gutless wonders.

What amazes me, these supposed "constitutionalists" wrote up a bill that was kept secret! Secret?! They are acting just like democrats. Seven years---and when they have a chance---they blow it!

It is no wonder that democrats run circles around these jerks. The Repuke party is just that---repugnant. It is Ryan that is incompetent. Ryan has to go.

Blogger Chris Lutz March 25, 2017 8:19 AM  

@4 Like everyone else, you confuse chronic conditions with pre-existing conditions. Before Obamacare, HIPAA in the 90's solved the pre-existing condition problem. As long as you had continuous coverage, the insurance company had to cover any condition. If your coverage lapsed, the insurance company could exclude coverage of an existing condition for up to one year. So free riders paid a serious price, not a pathetic 30% of policy premium, and you had insurance portability.

What most people mean by pre-existing conditions is people with chronic health issues, like my wife. What needs to happen there is the creation of pools to mitigate the costs for the insurance company and the users.

Second, yes older people are upset about changing the charge ratio from 1-3 to 1-5. Part of it is that Ryan's bill changed that but didn't address anything else. I would still be paying for coverages I don't need or want. So it was just going to jack up the price on older people and not offer them any other relief.

Before Obamacare pricing was actually improving. I've used an HSA plan (individual market) for about 12 years. It has a high deductible but paid 100% once for an individual once the deductible was reached. With my wife's condition, it made planning medical costs easy. I always put in the max amount in the HSA and was building a nice nest egg for costs. So what has Obamacare done to me?

Premiums:
- 2007 - Steady
- 2008 - Drop
- 2009 - 3% increase (my age kicked in here)
- 2010 to Today - Steady

Wow, looks great right? Look at deductibles (family).
- 2007 - 3,000
- 2008 - 3,000
- 2009 - 4,000
- 2010 to today 13,000

I'm paying high premiums (always had high deductibles so I never felt the OCare shock on those). Oh and I had two insurance providers to pick from this year as everyone, including the one I was using, pulled out.

All the Republicans need to do to start is pass a bill saying the system it was it was before OCare. The system was flawed but getting better in my opinion. Then they can tweak things.

Blogger Salt March 25, 2017 8:19 AM  

"We shall repeal Obamacare" was a central point of Trump's becoming POTUS. Not fix it, repeal it. Newt Gingrich said last night that asking the people to trust us, as in having added stages, was not going to fly. People trust Trump, not Congress. (R) Freshman Congress-critters also said repeal. Coulter said it too as she called it Obamacare Lite.

It went down in flames. I am pleased.

Blogger Dire Badger March 25, 2017 8:24 AM  

Rollory:

"Best case, Trump gains psychic strength from defeat and comes back with a better attempt, lays the groundwork for something that will pass, and gets it through."

Best Case, Trump knew exactly what he was doing, and manipulated the Freedom Caucus into exposing their hand and looking like traitors and obstructionists to the people that voted for them, while laying the groundwork for a complete repeal of Obamacare and deregulation of insurance... crippling their monopoly while at the same time allowing him to keep his promise of repeal, NOT rewrite, of Obamacare... an educated guess that has held true so far in virtually every performance of our new president.

OpenID RambleAround March 25, 2017 8:28 AM  

Two main things will come from this- Ryan out as speaker, and a better bill.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 25, 2017 8:28 AM  

I think the God-Emperor is right to move on to taxes. Either way he has managed to win. Obamacare isn't his fault and the repeal failing also isn't his fault.

Except for one thing: President Trump (according to reports, anyway) threw his support behind Ryan's bill. So this will be (and already is being) portrayed as his defeat more than Ryan's.

That's the only thing that doesn't fit into theories about how this is a master plan by the president to take out Ryan or something. That wouldn't have required him to demand that they pass Ryan's bill. So either that's being mis-reported, or something about this just doesn't make sense to me yet.

Blogger MrPaules March 25, 2017 8:32 AM  

One area of medicine has improved in quality over the past ten years while slashing costs dramatically. That would be cosmetic surgery, because it's basically an all cash business. I used to take great delight in annoying my liberal colleagues during faculty meetings with the following: "Markets are "one-hundred percent natural, completely organic, and totally spontaneous." You may quote the Paules corollary to Adam Smith without attribution.

Blogger Dire Badger March 25, 2017 8:34 AM  

@Cail-

I thought Trump was throwing his weight behind it right up until the point where he threw out an ultimatum.

Ultimatums piss people off, almost guaranteeing that they will oppose you, 'on principle' if nothing else. "How dare you threaten me?" especially the 'threat' of simply leaving Obamacare in place.

This is business management 101. As of Thursday, anyone who has ever worked as a 'supervisor' at MacDonalds knew that this bill was done. Much better to let the backstabbers expose themselves than be forced to take the hit from vetoing it himself.

It reads almost like a passage out of SJWAL.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 25, 2017 8:34 AM  

Obamacare is unsupportable and the Democrats still own it.

It needs to hit the floor and shatter so big that no one can deny that it's failure. Sure the media will try to blame the president for that but he only has to say, "hey, nobody ever called it Trumpcare."

Anonymous Looking Glass March 25, 2017 8:38 AM  

There is a BUNCH of levels to all of this.

Sundance at CTH is saddened because it doesn't stop the train rolling towards Single-Payer or the monster tax increases coming along with Obamacare. However, I don't think the Bill would have, either.

I still can't nail down how much room there was to write this type of legislation. Yes, there were a lot of limits, but considering they were talking about Tax Credits, there was clearly a LOT of latitude to work with. Yet they put forward a bill mostly similar to their previous "repeal" legislation without much changed. (Those previous bills mostly being just simple enough to force Obama to veto them.)

So the structure of the approach, given the current state of Power in Washington, would have at least made the situation a lot better for a lot of people. However, we were just give a large bill that seemed DoA to most of the people making it at the start. Trump throwing actual support behind it seems to have caught them off guard.

But Trump always has the Walkaway strength in this situation: making the situation worse (or taking blame for the disaster to come) doesn't solve the disaster. It just causes nothing but problems. He'll have leverage over the Dems later on the topic. But it is also now really clear that the UniParty really wanted Obamacare, so Trump is going to need to produce leverage with a little more rough approach.

People forget the Weaponized Executive Branch. How do you produce leverage to deal with Obamacare? Make sure California's (and a few other deep blue States) have their Insurance Companies taken for a regulatory ride. Put the pain into the players that caused this mess and hit them hard. A bunch of Collusion or Anti-Trust lawsuits later and suddenly companies are really eager to start dealing.

This is a short-term tactical loss for Trump, though Strategically very valuable. It's now flushed out the positions of most of the players in DC. We know the Freedom Caucus is mostly a bunch of NeverTrumpers in the first place, now, so it's clear most of their "Principles" have been show for the entire time.

I think it's also safe to assume that Trump pushed this out and pushed hard for a Vote really "early". This was very intentional, as dragging it out wasn't going to actually get it passed, which means that Trump read the situation and actually expected this as the likely outcome. Strategically it works either way, but it would have been better for the country to have gotten a Repeal actually started.

Congress has made its decision, and Trump will response. Note that he's going to be doing Rallies, not Speeches, every other week or so until 2025. The Man knows his base and it ain't in DC.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 25, 2017 8:39 AM  

Do you really think Trump threw his weight behind it?

I actually don't know. That's certainly the way it's being reported, that President Trump was twisting arms to try to get votes for Ryan's bill. But I remember how a dinner with Romney was turned into "Romney for Secretary of State! Ha ha, we told you so!" Or a hundred other examples of the media and NeverTrumpers pushing the most negative possible explanation of everything.

The stories I've seen could indicate that the president threw his support behind Ryan's bill, or that he just demanded action on it. Very different things. The former doesn't make much sense; the latter could. So we'll see.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 25, 2017 8:45 AM  

What the GOP needs in the House is a real parliamentary leader. A Cock-Robin. A Thomas Reed. A Newt Gringrich. Someone who loves the cut and thrust of rhetorical battle.

Instead we have Paul Ryan, a bleary eyed free market economics professor.

In 2006 the GOP collapsed and was driven into the Wilderness. The thing is when that happens you spend about 15 to twenty years in the Wilderness, during that time you develop a new political philosophy and build a new leadership.

The problem is that thanks to Obama the Republicans were recalled from exile ten years too early. The guys we have now were never meant to be leaders because they aren't.

John Boehner and Paul Ryan were just care takers who wander in a circle chanting, "Reagan-Reagan-Reagan."

They are the priests of a religion that has become all form and no substance.

Blogger bosscauser March 25, 2017 8:47 AM  

Trump lost the Iowa primary. Campaign over.
Yawn....

#PresidentTrump2020

Blogger Dire Badger March 25, 2017 8:48 AM  

Cail-

"If I didn't say it, it's Fake." -Trump

"Sources close to the Oval Office have reported that...." has been wrong so many times, it's a good bet that the media is pulling every such 'source' out of a crevice somewhere between their Large intestine and their rectum.

Anonymous Grayman March 25, 2017 8:48 AM  

This was trumps plan.

It isn't currently possible to repeal obamacare. There isn't enough pain being felt to force the democrats.
Trump had to put on a show to make sure blames stays on the democrats shoulders.
He has to let it implode to give him the political capital to move forward, and to potentially remove ryan.

Blogger Otto Lamp March 25, 2017 8:49 AM  

"...Steve Bannon has privately expressed concern that the American Health Care Act (AHCA) betrays the populist voters who put Donald Trump in the White House."

"...Bannon said that he’s unhappy with the Ryan bill because it “doesn’t drive down costs” and was “written by the insurance industry.”"

http://www.rightwingtribune.com/2017/03/24/steve-bannon-ryancare/

I've been reading in multiple places that Bannon was opposed bigly to RyanCare. We know he has Trump's ear.

Anonymous Looking Glass March 25, 2017 8:49 AM  

@25 Cail

It's very possible that the GOPe was going to slow roll the Ryancare until the end of the year, so all we've really seen is Trump forcing his schedule on the GOP and eating a loss that he was going to receive either way. The Trump Train has no brakes, so he threw this version of "Repeal" off the Train because it doesn't work.

In a multi-party negotiation, one party can scuttle a deal regardless of your skill. This was DoA because the UniParty wasn't going to give up Obamacare. So it wasn't Trump just going through the motions; it was Trump setting up the next deal. This was cutting losses, which is why he was supporting it, but it never quite felt that high-energy we're used to.

Trump is going to need 60 Senators and he's got a chance for it after 2018, though it's the Primaries that are going to be epic. The Insurgency is still on, and we'll have most of the Wall built by then.

But, the Business Venture had already failed that was this Bill before it ever got to Congress, so Trump wanted it written off as quickly as possible. Plus, as I mentioned, Trump can still put the hurt into a lot of actors.

Anonymous RC March 25, 2017 8:50 AM  

Some of the many problems: Perverse incentives, no competition, hospitals rolling up medical practices and jacking prices through facility charges and other, ludicrous financial incentives to docs (like ordering common generic creams to be mixed and charging 100x what those would cost separately via pharmacy agreements or hospital back-end deals like MRI machines owned by doctor groups), massive immigration-invasion, horrible food choices, no exercise, five hours a day of television, increasing mega-cost chronic conditions, and end-of-life care that routinely pushes well into the six figures and often into the seven, resulting in an ever increasing percentage of GDP going to health-related expenses. If something is not sustainable it will end.

Some fixes would be easy but many would be very difficult in today’s political climate and weak, fearful, easily malleable citizenry. This I know: increasing costs are absolutely stifling business formation. Even a decision as simple as taking a married part-time pastor full-time at a church has an $18K per year health insurance cost beyond any compensatory costs. It’s ludicrous. Non-linear effects are a bitch and we’re running towards them at full speed.

Blogger plishman March 25, 2017 8:56 AM  

Restoring the price discovery mechanism to industries (such as healthcare) where the insurance industry is a monopoly consumer of their product/service is a non-trivial problem.

Insurers will seek to own healthcare concerns, so that when an insurance claim is made, the insurer is effectively paying their own company - and as a result, will seek to make healthcare costs as high as possible, so that the greatest amount of income from premiums comes back to the insurer as profit.

Blogger Some Guy March 25, 2017 8:59 AM  

Vox,

I'm not sure that your analysis will be accurate here. He will probably pivot to a fix on Obamacare. He can get a lot of moderates like that. One thing is for sure. Anything the freedom caucus passes in the house has almost 0 chance of passing in the senate. Any true changes have to come from the middle.

Blogger James Dixon March 25, 2017 8:59 AM  

Ryan's bill was terrible. It kept everything but the mandate (including a penalty) and did nothing to move us to actual market based reforms. Of course the Freedom Caucus, which ran on a full repeal, wouldn't support it.

Trump now knows who the principled House members are and who were merely posturing when there was nothing on the line. He can work with the principled ones and order the posturing ones around, knowing they'll go along when push comes to shove.

This is how the system is supposed to work. Trump is learning. He'll know what to do now with tax reform. Meanwhile, he's made it clear that he's going to let Obamacare fail and make the dem's come begging for it to be fixed.

Blogger YIH March 25, 2017 8:59 AM  

Luke wrote:Everyone wants the restrictions on how much more older people have to pay for insurance compared to young people, and not letting insurance companies charge full costs for pre-existing conditions. Problem is, those two things alone are guaranteed to kill any medical insurance plan, whether or not the mandate is killed. If young broke healthy people get charged a fortune compared to how much they really cost to insure, loads of them won't get it. (Not just refuse, literally can't afford in many cases.) I don't think anyone has really explained all this to Trump.
That's the problem, I don't really think Trump has given much thought to the health ''insurance'' issue beyond the simplistic ''obamacare is unpopular and bad''.
Because of his business background. Where are his hotels/casinos? NY, NJ and NV, three strong union states. The health insurance package he was providing his staffs was likely much better than anything 0bama/Ryancare did or could offer. It seems Trump's goal was to take the sharp edges off 0bamacare and say ''I repealed/replaced it''.
I too have read Denninger, and he's right, healthcare is rife with graft and fraud and is mathematically unsustainable - then again, what in economics today isn't mathematically unsustainable? Name it.
Denninger's proposals are, to put it bluntly, a non-starter.
The media will continue to reliably churn out sob stories no matter what is done with healthcare. And the hospital/pharma cartel lobbyists (who wrote most of 0bamacare in the first place) still run the show in DC.

Blogger CM March 25, 2017 9:00 AM  

I'm surprised he didn't start with the hard-righters. His thing is the "Art of the Deal". Would make sense to start with the most extreme and move towards a good compromise.

I was baffled and can make no heads or tails of this whole ordeal from Trump's place in it.

Ryan is a buffoon.

Blogger Dire Badger March 25, 2017 9:01 AM  

Plishman-

From what I have seen, restoring price discovery mechanisms and eliminating uncontestable global and tacit monopolies seems to be a key feature of Trump's approach towards eliminating unprofitable expenses.

Blogger James Dixon March 25, 2017 9:04 AM  

> Trump knew exactly what he was doing, and manipulated the Freedom Caucus into exposing their hand and looking like traitors and obstructionists to the people that voted for them

The Freedom Caucus people ran on repeal, not reform. They didn't betray anyone. Ryan did and the other cucks did. A clean repeal would have passed with no problems. And now that the filibuster will have to be done away with to confirm Gorsuch, they can just do away with it entirely and ram a clean repeal though the Senate.

Blogger James Dixon March 25, 2017 9:11 AM  

> We know the Freedom Caucus is mostly a bunch of NeverTrumpers in the first place

The Freedom Caucus are the ones who mostly support Trump. Ryan and his ilk are the never Trumpers.

Blogger Rusty Fife March 25, 2017 9:14 AM  

I keep hearing about all the 'profits' that the cartel insurance and hospital industries are scooping up; but, I'm not seeing it. I'm not a business guy so this could be baloney:

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/margin.html

Drug companies on the other hand...

Blogger Rusty Fife March 25, 2017 9:19 AM  

Given 20% of the population can afford healthcare, regardless of the incentives and 20% of the population will be incapable of affording any healthcare, regarless of the incentives; all insurance should do is protect the middle 60% from financial catastophe. From the utilitarian perspective, it is cheaper to heal any give ailment than to lose that productive person.

Aliens and the elderly are all adding to our bottom 20%.

Reduce or eliminate the cost of 50 million non-paying aliens and figure out how to humanely move the majority of the elderly to retainer type care; then the worst of the problems disappear.

Blogger Otto Lamp March 25, 2017 9:20 AM  

@38, @Phishman,

"Insurers will seek to own healthcare concerns, so that when an insurance claim is made, the insurer is effectively paying their own company - and as a result, will seek to make healthcare costs as high as possible, so that the greatest amount of income from premiums comes back to the insurer as profit."

Counterbalance that with the fact that most corporations are not insurance companies.

To those corporations, health insurance is a 100% loss. It's an expense and PITA they'd rather not deal with; the more they reduce that expense, the more profit they have.

I'm convinced that corporations backed ObamaCare, because they believed it was the FIRST STEP toward a government system which would allow corporations to unload health care onto the government and wash their hands of it.

If we want the backing of most corporations, we need to come up with a plan that allows them to dump job related health insurance. Corporations don't want to be in the health insurance business, they want to be in whatever business they are actually in.



Blogger Rusty Fife March 25, 2017 9:25 AM  

A friend of mine is a health business major; he told me 50% of your care costs are in the last two weeks of life.

With an unlimited cost exposure, the insurance companies have to assume millions of dollars as their maximum exposure. Why not have a yearly cap?

To make it palatable; why not treat the unspent cap as a term life insurance policy?

This way, those who are at the end know they are rebating the balance to their own family and not to the insurance company?

Blogger tz March 25, 2017 9:31 AM  

This was strange, with CTH in total love with Paul Ryan now.
And the Three phase monte. If phase 3 would need 60 votes, it wouldn't get done and everyone knew it, so phase 1 had to do everything.
Gingrich noted RynoCare had 17% approval as everyone hated it.
Obamacare is like a dying animal, it needs to be shot dead, not wounded.
I think Ryan was "The Apprentice" and just got fired.

Blogger U PC BRO? March 25, 2017 9:34 AM  

I take an oral chemotherapy drug. It costs $2,300 for a 2 week cycle. The same exact shit is available for $175 a cycle if I source it overseas. Made in Australia, not some SE Asian counterfeit shit. My doctor won't supervise my care if I source overseas though because they can't verify the drug is legit, or some such bullshit. This is the problem with US healthcare in a nutshell. Big pharma must be leashed, muzzled, and kicked a few times for good measure. No bill will succeed long term that leaves Americans paying 10X-20X more for prescription drugs than the rest of the industrialized world. We're chumps.

Blogger CynicalMan March 25, 2017 9:36 AM  

Perfectly highlights a political difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. Because so many Republicans put country before party they cannot as a group form a line in solidarity behind legislation that they feel is detrimental to the people. Whereas Democrats couldn't care less about the people and can unify for anything that increases their power and furthers their political ideology. They handed the Democrats a significant victory yesterday that the Democrats were quick to exploit. Republicans are just not mean enough, corrupt enough and evil enough to rule as dictators.

Blogger Johnny March 25, 2017 9:41 AM  

>>A friend of mine is a health business major; he told me 50% of your care costs are in the last two weeks of life.

What I have read and what I think is true is that half of all healthcare expenses arise from patients that are in the last nine months of their life. Major bucks could be saved by allowing people to die a little sooner.

As for dealing with that: ain't gonna happen. Politics ends up being a bidding war where each side tries to make outbidding the other side seem credible. Such an environment does not allow for reasonable restraint. Overpromise and underdeliver is the usual solution, along with varying degrees of corruption siphoning off resources along the way.

The lesson I take from this so far is that our current political system is not going to produce a good outcome.

Blogger GAHCindy March 25, 2017 9:50 AM  

Gosh, look at all the rationalizing. Trump goofed. He shouldn't have supported this bill. If he was the player I thought he was, he'd have sat back quietly and let it die with Ryan's name the only one attached to it. Instead, he made it his baby. He was in earnest. I think he always is. That's good!

But he ran on repeal. My hope is that his next step is to try to actually have that happen as straight- forwardly as he typically fits things. It's ridiculous to blame the people (Cruz, Paul, FC.) who DO have a replacement plan and are ready to implement it for not going along with this stinker, and then saying they proved they didn't really want to replace Obama care. Spin it however you like, Trump got in bed with the uniparty on this. He had options on the republican side that were pretty darn good, and may have taken a few rounds of fighting, but would have been worth it. He chose poorly. I think he can recover, but this was not him playing 4d chess. He really thought Obamacare had good things about it to be saved. He really believed (and I think most conservatives have fallen for it at some point, haven't they?) the typical Ryan failure theater that we just couldn't find a way procedurally to do the best thing. It's forgivable, but it's still a mistake.

He can learn. that's what I love about him. I hope he does. But he's a man with flaws, not an infallible god. We'd probably get better results if there were more people holding his feet to the fire of his promises and aspirations, rather than pretending he can't possibly be wrong about anything.

Anonymous Bz March 25, 2017 9:52 AM  

I agree with Bannon's reasoning. Trump seems on consideration to have played it right as well. He was quite helpful to the AHCA proposal of his party, then gave them a deadline instead of dragging things out. Generous, I would say, particularly since it's not like Ryan has been much of an ally before.

Consider if Trump instead had directly rejected the bill himself. Since AHCA seems to have had little thought behind it, the next step would be to get involved in a quagmire of revisions and new proposals, which would likely have stalled the presidency, and ended up with Trump owning something unlikely to work well to boot. Far better the way it played out.

Blogger GAHCindy March 25, 2017 9:53 AM  

fits= does

Swype keyboard and me.

Blogger CM March 25, 2017 9:56 AM  

Bz wrote:I agree with Bannon's reasoning. Trump seems on consideration to have played it right as well. He was quite helpful to the AHCA proposal of his party, then gave them a deadline instead of dragging things out. Generous, I would say, particularly since it's not like Ryan has been much of an ally before.

Consider if Trump instead had directly rejected the bill himself. Since AHCA seems to have had little thought behind it, the next step would be to get involved in a quagmire of revisions and new proposals, which would likely have stalled the presidency, and ended up with Trump owning something unlikely to work well to boot. Far better the way it played out.



That makes way more sense to me than any explanation for Trump's actions I have heard so far.

I really hope we go with our Freedom Caucus as lead next time.

Blogger James Dixon March 25, 2017 9:57 AM  

> A friend of mine is a health business major; he told me 50% of your care costs are in the last two weeks of life.

Because you're never sure whether any given illness will be your last or not, and you're given hospital treatment the same as you would if it wasn't. But you don't get better, so you stay in the hospital till you die.

Hospital care is what drives up the cost of those last two weeks.

This isn't really as complicated as they're making it out to be for the vast majority. They need a catastrophic plan with a reasonable (say $5K/person, $10K/family) yearly out of pocket. They can cover the day to day costs themselves. You need to allow national competition on such a plan while allowing health savings accounts the same as IRA's for everyone. Then you give a health care tax credit similar to the earned income tax credit we have currently, so the poorest group of people have the money to pay the premium and the out of pocket expenses.

There are lots of other things that need done (get rid of Medicare/Medicaid/VA/etc and move them to the above plan, for example) but that's the core of any market based plan.

Anonymous Be Deplorable, Not Afraid March 25, 2017 10:00 AM  

Socialized medicine is socialized medicine, whether it's Obamacare or Ryancare.

The sad truth is that we can't afford to give every possible treatment to every person who gets sick. And nobody wants to hear that. Anything except gold-plated coverage for all, including illegals, will get met with an endless media barrage of stories of poor sick people dying because evil conservatives (who also eat puppies for breakfast) are denying these people healthcare.

Since MPAI, that emotional argument will win every damned time.

Anything Republicans do to change Obamacare will be hung around their necks, and the media will then make them own ALL the failures of that hot mess.

Thanks, Justice Roberts. I don't know what the Deep State spying had on you to get you to change your opinion, but I sure hope it's more interesting than an affair, considering how you screwed the hell out of the country.

Anonymous Avalanche March 25, 2017 10:02 AM  

@6 "This was clearly rushed legislation. Rush jobs don't turn out well. Go back and do it right."

Yeah "rushed," because they've had EIGHT YEARS (and submitted, what, six version to be vetoed?!) to write and work and fix and make better... Somehow NONE of those plans was worth the paper they were written on? Had to start fresh and write in a rush?! Liars, traitors, @ssholes!!

Throw them ALL out!! They, too, MUST GO BACK! (Even if only to their home states...)

Blogger DeploraBard March 25, 2017 10:03 AM  

Trump was very calm yesterday. I think he is pleased with the outcome. Obamacare will fail next year and he gets to say I told you so and bring everyone to the table for a deal.

Blogger Rick March 25, 2017 10:07 AM  

Repeal by constitutional amendment.
That may be an easier solution. That process may bypass the Uniparty and put the whole gov controlled healthcare scheme to bed for good.

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 10:07 AM  

Any heatlhcare system in the US is guaranteed to fail due to demographics. This was true pre-Obamacare. The baby boom bulge plus a younger generation of lower productivity browns assure this.

The trick is to not have your name on the thing when it collapses. Mission accomplished.

And maybe we get Ryan's scalp too.

Perfect.

Blogger Lovekraft March 25, 2017 10:08 AM  

The main issue is over control of the narrative.

It's like there's so many divergent opinions that I see in the near future a new type of 'last word.'

People cannot go on with this uncertainty.

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 10:10 AM  

One thing trump could do is direct the IRS to "temporarily" delay the penalty implementation. That would be fun.

Anonymous Avalanche March 25, 2017 10:12 AM  

@19 "As for a "deeper game", I remember exactly that argument being made at great length, and rather convincingly, regarding George W. Bush. This is a big part of why I wait for evidence before putting any faith in princes."

The Bush-monkey was a wholly owned puppet! He did what the strings pulled him to do. He wouldn't know "deeper game" if it pounded him in the butt with the game board!!

TRUMP?! Now, the God Emperor has been playing a way way deeper game all along (Hey! Remember? HE BECAME PRESIDENT!! Out of nowhere political! With "everyone against him"!)

Has ANY move he has made so far NOT advanced his game?! Has he yet FAILED to make the correct moves in his 5D chess? When he takes a bad step, makes a "stupid" move, says the "wrong" thing, -- has it not pretty much ALWAYS worked out for him, way better than we could expect!?

Please do NOT compare him to the Bush-monkey! Other than both being bipedal humanoids, they are NOT alike!

(And, oh, p.s., you "remember exactly that argument being made..." Where? In the mainstream media?!? FAKE NEWS!)

Blogger Unknown March 25, 2017 10:12 AM  

this was nothing less than a brilliant victory for Trump if you know what was actually going on. This vote had NOTHING to do with Obamacare and was setup to neutralize Paul Ryan.

Anonymous Grayman March 25, 2017 10:12 AM  

Understand that you could remove the Healthcare monopolies with existing kaw, but it causes an instant depression due to a drop of 15+% in GDP overnight and kills 40 to 60% of pharma business in the US due to drops in prices.
It needs to happen but there is no free lunch. Any change to this system WILL bankrupt some people, force others to hurry up and die etc.

A fair % of drugs do very little to actually improve outcomes for the majority of people. I say this as sone one who is associated with getting drugs to market.
The US needs to reassess our view on mortality. We have been conditioned to demand pills and treatments that and very little to quality of life but have huge costs.
Someone mentioned chemo. A lot of chemo treatments add months at best for certain cancers. We need to start being realistic. Is 100k/month for 3 to 6 extra months of life reasonable? No, it's not. It's only going on now because the INS companies can pawn the bill off onto everyone through premiums.

It's going to hurt all of us, but it needs to be burned to the ground, all of health care and pharma. Then we can talk about a system that doesn't rob us blind.

Blogger JaimeInTexas March 25, 2017 10:13 AM  

Did not Trump support Ryan in the primaries and for Speaker?

Any and all legislation that depends on Congress' later legislation has to be killed the and there, like this one.

Blogger Rick March 25, 2017 10:18 AM  

Perhaps the constitutional amendment could be to make single payer unconstitutional, and thus avoid that otherwise inevitability and Obamacare collapses. End of story. Rather than Obamacare collapses and we end up with single payer permanently.

Blogger Johnny March 25, 2017 10:25 AM  

>> Anything except gold-plated coverage for all, including illegals, will get met with an endless media barrage of stories of poor sick people dying because evil conservatives (who also eat puppies for breakfast) are denying these people healthcare.

Yeah, that and add in lots of loot from the medical industry for the complete package.

Anonymous Avalanche March 25, 2017 10:25 AM  

@49 "To make it palatable; why not treat the unspent cap as a term life insurance policy?
This way, those who are at the end know they are rebating the balance to their own family and not to the insurance company?"


Hey cool! Let's kill granny and get the inheritance she didn't provide?!

(Who pays those 'term' premiums? Oh right -- someone else, the taxpayers. No, no, and more no!)

Anonymous citizen-Pepe March 25, 2017 10:27 AM  

so far its democrats 1 republicans 0, long way to go though. In the Broncos Redskins super bowl in 1987-88, the Broncos were up 10-0, but the Redskins won 42-10

Blogger Johnny March 25, 2017 10:29 AM  

>>There are lots of other things that need done (get rid of Medicare/Medicaid/VA/etc and move them to the above plan, for example) but that's the core of any market based plan.

I beg to differ. While I am not a great fan of national healthcare, it would seem that is where we are headed. And I am a Medicare recipient. Getting to watch the program from the inside, the most obvious thing is that it is not a screwed up mess called Obamacare.

Rather than get rid of Medicare, expand it. To avoid overloading the system, extend eligibility down, say, five years at a time on a yearly basis until it becomes our national healthcare system.

Blogger Dave March 25, 2017 10:34 AM  

Trump swung and missed on this one; I'm with Bannon, Coulter, and the Freedom Caucus. Whenever Fake News CNN starts talking sh*t like this I know I made the right choice:

"Why (almost) everyone hates the House Freedom Caucus" http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/23/politics/what-is-the-freedom-caucus/

Blogger peter blandings March 25, 2017 10:34 AM  

i thought we had already agreed that there was only one party, that there was no difference between republicans and democrats, in which case why is trump dealing with congress at all, especially ryan. if it can't be done with an executive order, don't even bother with it.

Blogger Frank Brady March 25, 2017 10:36 AM  

Rollory wrote:@11

"From the outside, American health care seems like an insanity. It's more expensive than public systems with more graft, but without universal coverage."

This is purely and simply because the medical companies providing care have cartelized the entire market and are engaging in price-fixing schemes all over the place - which is explicitly contrary to the law - and absolutely no level of government has been willing to prosecute them for it or even admit it is happening.

It's that simple.


Completely wrong. Every federal intervention in the payment system for the last 50 years has had the effect of hiding the cost of service from the people receiving that service. When potential consumers of a highly desirable service are shielded from its cost, demand for that service will increase exponentially. It's THAT simple.

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 25, 2017 10:37 AM  

My brother in the insurance industry says Ryancare was worse than Obamacare. I don't know if I should trust his opinion on this.

Blogger mushroom March 25, 2017 10:48 AM  

@76 Completely wrong. Every federal intervention in the payment system for the last 50 years has had the effect of hiding the cost of service from the people receiving that service. When potential consumers of a highly desirable service are shielded from its cost, demand for that service will increase exponentially. It's THAT simple.

Excellent and accurate summary. Medicare is the original culprit.

Blogger Basil Makedon March 25, 2017 10:54 AM  

Yes, the entire basis of the Welfare State is: "Earmarked Benefit; Socialized Losses."

Blogger Peter Jackson March 25, 2017 10:54 AM  

Ryan screwed the pooch. How do you even announce a bill to the public unless you know you have the votes to pass it?

Anonymous Raptor disrespect from behind March 25, 2017 10:59 AM  

Check the profit margins of various insurers, they're much lower than you might expect. The blue Cross es are all over the place, Aetna is below 5%. They all largely make their profit off the float if premiums and not the premiums themselves.

The adminstrative overhead of our current system is insane.

Blogger Frank Brady March 25, 2017 10:59 AM  

What's not to like?

1. The Dems still own Obamacare and it is going down in flames. What many don't understand is that the entire Third Party Payment system (including Medicare and Medicaid) is unsustainable in the near term because of demographics and the iron laws of economics. Obamacare will accelerate its collapse. These are the lynch pins of the Welfare arm of the Welfare/Warfare State. The Warfare portion is also in the process of imploding.
2. Ryan and the national GOP's entire leadership has eviscerated itself.

We are in for an exciting ride.

Blogger JaimeInTexas March 25, 2017 11:04 AM  

The entire healthcare, including medicaid and medicare, and insurance laws/regulations is to push us into a single payor system, which would be less complicated. The mess is ny design, a feature not a bug.

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 11:11 AM  

Excellent and accurate summary. Medicare is the original culprit.

Europe has universal health care and far lower costs per capita. That libertarian idea, certainly appealing to me, has been shown by experience to be at least incomplete, if not flat out wrong.

As with other things it is worth looking at what the swiss do.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 25, 2017 11:12 AM  

I agree with Bob Whitaker, they basically sucked Trump and the more likely target us into budget bullshit the quick sand of conservatism.

I'll make a bold prediction, the wars of identity are upon us and all the conservative handwaving won't slow them down in arriving full throat.

More important than saving Blue Cross' scam non profit looting scheme is the article at Castalia House blog about 1980 retro culture, the normies are dropping out and the right is messing about saving millionaire's station in life as if it is the only thing that matters.

Normies back to America, LibCons to the grave.

Anonymous JI March 25, 2017 11:13 AM  

I think the Democrats and Republican enemies-of-Trump are going to adopt the meme, "He can't get anything done." And I think the media will run with this ad nauseum, expanding on it with, "He couldn't even get a small change through Congress, never mind something big." And the people may well buy into it so the GE needs something very strong to counter this defeatist message (unless I'm wrong and the Dems/EOT fail to capitalize on this).

Blogger Pteronarcyd March 25, 2017 11:18 AM  

I'm happy to see Ryancare bite the dust. It was Obamacare Lite.

I'm puzzled by Trump's support of Ryan, but I'm hoping it is primarily theatrics.

The Conservative Tree House is bemoaning this as a major setback, as if Ryancare was worth passing. I want to see a straight forward repeal. After that Congress can debate any replacement, but the reform I'd like to see is getting government out of the health insurance game -- ie, give everyone or no one tax deductions for health insurance premiums.

Blogger Sheila4g March 25, 2017 11:18 AM  

@76 Frank Brady: "Completely wrong. Every federal intervention in the payment system for the last 50 years has had the effect of hiding the cost of service from the people receiving that service. When potential consumers of a highly desirable service are shielded from its cost, demand for that service will increase exponentially. It's THAT simple."

Well said. There should be ZERO federal involvement in health care. Just because Truman inherited wage controls from FDR and employers competing for employees decided to offer health insurance does not mean it is natural, normal, or must continue. People need to pay their own way, and drugs (after a reasonable reimbursement for the cost of development) need to be sold at a competitive price, and a bandaid should cost what it does, not $50 at an emergency room. The only "insurance" available should be for catastrophic coverage.

@64 Praetorian: "Any heatlhcare system in the US is guaranteed to fail due to demographics. This was true pre-Obamacare. The baby boom bulge plus a younger generation of lower productivity browns assure this."

Again, well said. Absolutely we are paying for all the brown children brought to the emergency room for what isn't really urgent care, and the vast majority of these people do not belong in the US in any event. The other issue is the gold-plated service everyone insists on providing to the elderly. No, I'm not saying let people die of pain or starvation or withhold care (so please spare me the "EUTHANASIA!" accusations), but there is a massive cost for the last 6 months of life, as others have noted. I saw it with my father, and I'm seeing it now with my friend's mother. A lovely woman whom I like a great deal, but she's been in and out of the hospital repeatedly for the past 18 months, cost insurance (and her children) hundreds of thousands of dollars, and she's now essentially bed-bound and on about a dozen daily medications. I understand my friend's love for her mother (and I loved my father), but neither I nor most other Americans were given a choice on whether or not we wanted to share that cost burden. More and more I admire my late mother-in-law, who decided she didn't want to go through the pain and struggle and futility of a battle with advanced cancer in her 70s, and refused to put her family through that heartache and immense economic cost. She refused all but palliative care, put her affairs in order (and sorted out all family photos and memorabilia and ensured everything was distributed evenly amongst her sons), and died at home with her family by her side less than a year after her diagnosis.

There's a difference between hurrying someone to their death, and accepting that one's body is failing with dignity and grace and courage. People who I've believed to be far better Christians than I seem to all be terrified of dying, and will do anything to live another day regardless of pain or cost or any purported "do not resuscitate" order they've previously authorized.

Blogger Frank Brady March 25, 2017 11:19 AM  

praetorian wrote:Excellent and accurate summary. Medicare is the original culprit.

Europe has universal health care and far lower costs per capita. That libertarian idea, certainly appealing to me, has been shown by experience to be at least incomplete, if not flat out wrong.

As with other things it is worth looking at what the swiss do.


Europe's vaunted "far lower [health care] cost per capita is a total illusion, masked by socialist economic market distortions affecting the entire economy. For the true picture, look at the total cost of government per capita in Europe vs. the U.S.

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 11:26 AM  

For the true picture, look at the total cost of government per capita in Europe vs. the U.S.

I'm not smart enough to do that. Teasing out all the effects of regulation, subsidization, rationing, knock on effects, etc. seems an impossible task.

Are you smart enough to do that?

The swiss seem happy.

Blogger Timmy3 March 25, 2017 11:30 AM  

Why conservatives weren't included in the writing of the law tells you about Ryan's priorities. He wanted to strong arm conservatives and this will be true of tax and immigration reform. He already says tax reform is harder. I suppose it means getting his tax reform is harder. Time to replace him.

Blogger Jazzmanblue March 25, 2017 11:38 AM  

This bill was a disaster in waiting for Trump and the Republicans, and Trump played his hand well. He let Ryan run with the ball and gave him full "backing", knowing full well he would fall on his face. Ryan will have no choice but to back much better legislation later this year, and he will not be able to blame Trump for his bill not passing. When a much better bill (such as Rand Paul's) is approved, it will be a win all around for Trump and a disaster for the Democrats in the Red States running for the Senate in 2018. If the Ryan bill had passed, Republicans would have likely lost the Senate and weakened the House majority, shooting themselves in the foot by letting the cucks lead the way. Hopefully, Ryan will be gone while letting the RINO's know they do not hold sway in the party while Trump is in office.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky March 25, 2017 11:42 AM  

After Obamacare was passed a window in time sprang up, and it had to be killed before it became ensconced. Apparently that window is closed, this episode has proven that not enough votes exist to kill it. Ryan's bill didn't even attempt that, on the theory that such was already too radical to pass in the Senate. Yet even with such concession this bill was doomed. Had passed the House, which it didn't, it was fated to die in the Senate. All Democrats were opposed, so it required 100% GOP fidelity, and that had already vanished, plus maybe the "nuclear option" and parliamentary trickeration. Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski (pox upon them) had already bolted, and they weren't going to be the last.

So the current plan is to await Obamacare's inevitable collapse. And this collapse is inevitable. This is by design. Obamacare's mission was to do what it has already done, to establish and to normalize the conceit that health care is a right and that government will mete it out -- to tee up a more properly socialist system such as what they're calling now "single payer."

Obamacare was always a disaster, never popular, and foisted on the public by lies and crooked maneuvers by the Obama administration, Congress and the Supreme Court. The progressives are 100% to blame, this was a major goal of theirs for over a century now.

From now until the end of Republic (which is coming sooner than most realize), every election will feature health care concerns a major component. Because it belongs to the government. The left has effectively politicized it, as they aim to do with every aspect of your life.

Blogger JaimeInTexas March 25, 2017 11:48 AM  

Praetorian, a libertarian healthcare system used to exist but it was killed guv'mint. Costs and intervention/regs by gov keep increasing.

Anonymous gxg March 25, 2017 11:50 AM  

This so-called failure hurts Ryan more than it hurts Trump, and does no damage to the Freedom Caucus. Their conservative constituents (me included) applaud their role in opposing Obamacare-Lite and will remember it fondly at voting time, even as we line up to support Trump.

I've come to believe that Trump is playing a larger game here. And that game is to damage the cucks and the Democrats.

How it Damages the Democrats: The eventual implosion of Obamacare is now firmly on them. Trump has said that strategically, it would be good for the republicans if they do nothing and let Obamecare die its eventual gruesome death. Win for Trump.

How it Damages Ryan: Someone elsewhere (on Reddit, maybe?) explained it best. "Trump knows he has 100 HP points. Paul Ryan has 2 HP points, and Trump is driving the truck, with both of them in it, over a mine that does 5 HP damage. After this, he doesn't have to take lead from Paul Ryan anymore, since he say can, 'Look, I worked with you. You suck.'"

Remember how Trump got his revenge on Romney, by pretending to support him for Secretary of State? Who says he didn't do the same with Ryan and this godawful bill that no one liked, except for the insurance companies?

Anonymous gxg March 25, 2017 12:00 PM  

New tweet from Trump: "ObamaCare will explode and we will all get together and piece together a great healthcare plan for THE PEOPLE. Do not worry!"

He's got this.

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 12:04 PM  

Praetorian, a libertarian healthcare system used to exist but it was killed guv'mint. Costs and intervention/regs by gov keep increasing.

I don't disagree. And a lot of healthcare was (and, although poisoned by govt. money, still is) provided by faith-based institutions as well.

On the other hand, though, America has had (very popular) single payer healthcare for over half a century, it's just that it is only for old people and brown people. That is: the most expensive people to insure. The emergency room has become our defacto single payer provider, except if an uninsured middle class person shows up we make sure to bankrupt him for his temerity.

As I said up thread: demographics assure that any system will fail. I anticipate we will end up with single payer basics + private extensions (like the swiss) but with Brazilian demographics, making it a comical version of it. No crystal ball, just a guess.

Anonymous gxg March 25, 2017 12:18 PM  

One additional note... Trump has quietly helped along the implosion of Obamacare by ordering the IRS to stop enforcing the individual mandate. This means that even fewer healthy people will sign up, thus speeding up the Obamacare death spiral.

Like others have pointed out, there's a longer game here. Yup, he's got this.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 25, 2017 12:27 PM  

"I think the key thing here is that the God-Emperor learns who his allies are. He should have been working with the conservative element in the House that voted against the act, not the Ryan-led mainstream element that was the core Republican opposition to him in the primaries."

Actually, I think it's brilliant. Have Lyin' Ryan and the GOPe mainstream put forward a plan, and watch it go down in flames, damaging Ryan in the process.

Next, let the House Freedom Caucus and Rand Paul put together a plan. The Caucus is practically forced to now... otherwise they'll be subjected to justifiable accusations that they kept us stuck with Obamacare.

Anonymous Samuree March 25, 2017 12:29 PM  

Trump couldn't cut a deal

No one feared his threats

Trump broke his promise

Trump gave up

Yeah...he got this.

Anonymous lpdbw March 25, 2017 12:30 PM  

I just wish Trump had rescinded all the waivers to Obamacare that were granted by Obama to his cronies (and Congress). Retroactively. I would hasten the demise, I believe, and increase the pain of people who deserve it.

Anonymous Samuree March 25, 2017 12:31 PM  

The. Next Trump loss will be Tax Reform.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 25, 2017 12:42 PM  

"From the outside, American health care seems like an insanity. It's more expensive than public systems with more graft, but without universal coverage."

This is purely and simply because the medical companies providing care have cartelized the entire market and are engaging in price-fixing schemes all over the place - which is explicitly contrary to the law - and absolutely no level of government has been willing to prosecute them for it or even admit it is happening.

It's that simple.


@15 Rollory
You're too kind. Price-GOUGING.

This was trumps plan.

It isn't currently possible to repeal obamacare. There isn't enough pain being felt to force the democrats.
Trump had to put on a show to make sure blames stays on the democrats shoulders.
He has to let it implode to give him the political capital to move forward, and to potentially remove ryan.


@34 Grayman
Pretty much. There was just enough to get Trump elected, but now we have all these progtards running around whining about "Muh Obamacare!" as if it's their treasured possession.

And there are a LOT of progtards in this country.

I don't know what the real motivations of the House Freedom Caucus were, but the effect of this implosion yesterday has been to severely hurt Paul Ryan. According to Breitbart at least, there's already talk about removing the weasel's Speakership.

One thing is for sure. Anything the freedom caucus passes in the house has almost 0 chance of passing in the senate. Any true changes have to come from the middle.

@39 Some Guy
The Freedom Caucus will have to at least try now. The Democrats still love Obamacare, but a lot of HFC constituents will be pissed at them for siding with the Democrats and keeping us stuck with Obamacare.

The Freedom Caucus are the ones who mostly support Trump. Ryan and his ilk are the never Trumpers.

@45 James Dixon
There was that incident where Trump winked at Mark Meadows after stating that he'd be very disappointed if he didn't back the bill. It's very possible that this was a prearranged coup against Ryan.

But at this point, I'm not sure what the Caucus' motivation is.

If they do NOT write their own version of a repeal and make a serious attempt to move it, the Caucus will look like total UniParty controlled-opposition lackeys, and there may be attempts to destroy it in the primaries in 2018.

Rand Paul, in the meantime, already looks like a dishonest weasel.

Blogger Dirk Manly March 25, 2017 12:53 PM  

@Raptor disrespect from behind

He said medical companies, not insurance companies. Important and huge difference.

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 12:53 PM  

I just wish Trump had rescinded all the waivers to Obamacare that were granted by Obama to his cronies (and Congress). Retroactively. I would hasten the demise, I believe, and increase the pain of people who deserve it.

Fantastic idea.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 25, 2017 1:09 PM  

Remember how Trump got his revenge on Romney, by pretending to support him for Secretary of State? Who says he didn't do the same with Ryan and this godawful bill that no one liked, except for the insurance companies?

@95 gxg
I agree... but as I said, I don't entirely trust the House Freedom Caucus, and definitely don't trust Rand Paul. The ball is in their court now. They have to write a bill and start it moving.

If they don't do anything at all, the plain and simple fact is they will have kept us stuck with Obamacare without making even an attempt to get rid of it.

Blogger Frank Brady March 25, 2017 1:10 PM  

praetorian wrote:For the true picture, look at the total cost of government per capita in Europe vs. the U.S.

I'm not smart enough to do that. Teasing out all the effects of regulation, subsidization, rationing, knock on effects, etc. seems an impossible task.

Are you smart enough to do that?

The swiss seem happy.


1. Come on praetorian. It's really not that hard. Just divide total spending by each European government by each European country's population and, voila, there you have it.

2. By the way, for you Medicare fans, that Ponzi scheme is unsustainable as its Trustees' annual report admits and will collapse within the decade. The implosion of ObamaCare (which is well underway) will hasten its demise, a result that will cause much teeth gnashing and consternation among the geezers who like being supported by their grandchildren's money and the RINOs who are dependent upon their votes. Medicaid will go even sooner and take down some of the most deserving state governments with it (Illinois, California, etc.).

This is going to be fun to watch.

Anonymous FP March 25, 2017 1:14 PM  

Given how the media is spinning this, you know Trump will come out ok on this. I'm not sure why Sundance at TCH is having such a hissy fit, thinking that this would have been passed in the Senate and that stage 2/3 would have gone anywhere. Trump/Price are already in control of a lot of things given what obamacare lets the feds do. If you can't get a straight repeal, you aren't gonna replace anything either. This at least leaves in on the dems/obama.

Also, to all the people who think you can reform this at this stage like saying putting everyone on medicare, that is just delaying the inevitable crash while bankrupting more Americans in the process. The only way you save the country is by actually enforcing the law for monopolies/price-fixing and get the government out of healthcare. Otherwise, the boomers, illegals, welfare, pension plans implode the system and bankrupt everyone, killing millions and leading to civil war.

But hey, my $400/month premiums let me save $8 on my meds this month.

Blogger Student in Blue March 25, 2017 1:22 PM  

So, end result of all this:

Ryan looks ineffective.
Moderate Republicans look ineffective.

MSM, who most Americans are starting to realize are shameless liars, are complaining long and hard about Trump and Freedom Caucus.

Ryan's abomination isn't getting passed.

And this all happened in a very *quick* period of time for legislature.

...how does this not look like the result of 5D Parcheesi to anyone else? You don't just luck into this good of a result.

Anonymous Satan's Hamster March 25, 2017 1:31 PM  

"Just divide total spending by each European government by each European country's population and, voila, there you have it."

Yes. Britain's National Health Service is the fifth largest employer in the world. Anyone think that's cheap to run?

As others have said, one of the reasons European healthcare seems cheaper is because many countries deliberately kill the old farts. The NHS calls it 'The Liverpool Care Pathway', which, in the real world, means 'drug them up and starve them to death'.

There's a reason European countries keep pushing to legalize murder of old farts. And it's not because their healthcare is cheap. Any time government gets involved in healthcare, the costs go up and the value goes down.

Get government out of the way, eliminate the legalized medical monopolies, and technology will revolutionize healthcare in a decade.

(As a side-note, the NHS is also a large employer of foreign workers, and hence a major supporter of immigration into the UK.)

OpenID yippie21 March 25, 2017 1:38 PM  

@109 heh 5D Parcheesi ! Great summation btw. Agree with ya.

Anonymous Raptor disrespect from behind March 25, 2017 1:50 PM  

Even there it is highly variable. Merck has net profits around 9% glaxosmith Kline is around 4 but jnj pulls in around 20%.

Blogger BassmanCO March 25, 2017 2:19 PM  

Samuree, you're right. We're screwed. I give up.

/sarc

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 2:42 PM  

1. Come on praetorian. It's really not that hard. Just divide total spending by each European government by each European country's population and, voila, there you have it.

It must be nice being that smart. Here I was thinking that healthcare was more complex than that. Foolishly, I thought European governments did other things besides pay for healthcare.

Do you also think international free trade is obviously better than restricted international trade, based on first principles libertarian reasoning? I ask because I used to think that, and I also used to think very similarly to you on the question of healthcare. I was quite certain of myself then, as you are now. As I have gotten older and dumber, however, things don't appear as obvious to me.

Anonymous Deplorable me March 25, 2017 2:45 PM  

@67 Grayman

The US needs to reassess our view on mortality. We have been conditioned to demand pills and treatments that and very little to quality of life but have huge costs. ... We need to start being realistic. Is 100k/month for 3 to 6 extra months of life reasonable?

Exactly. We need to get back to considering quality of life and palliative care. If you spend those extra 3-6 mos of life dealing with side effects, bedridden and unable to enjoy life, is it worth it? What about spending two months with your family, enjoying the time you have left?

We've made tremendous advances in medicine in recent years, but I think we've lost sight of the person.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 25, 2017 3:23 PM  

The God Emperor has held his throne for a few moons. We will have what , Patience is always cautioned.

Complicating matters, a lot of health care and pension planning and ideas wasere done back when average family sizes were larger and people on average were younger.

Its awful hard to make a healthcare system or pension system solvent or cost effective from the start when the median age of the population is pushing 40 even with mass illegal immigration.

When Europe went down this route, they like us were in the midst of a baby boom and homogeneous, more than even us

Kicking the illegals and hell many immigrants out while utterly essential out will make the US a nation aged like Florida .

Only 1/4 the population are under 21 after all and with TFR and birth rates the way they are (Europe level) , its not going up .

If we had smarter or maybe more honest politicians who understood that and the fact growth isn't coming any time soon and could make laws based on that, we might be able to manage to do things properly

They don't though and no doubt if somehow GE fails the idiot Left will try for socialized medicine something that plain and simple can't be paid for under any situation.


Blogger Frank Brady March 25, 2017 3:23 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger DonReynolds March 25, 2017 3:28 PM  

Very good analysis, Vox.
One would expect the "smartest people in the room" are gently breaking the same message to President Trump this weekend.

It is clear that the president has the unusual problem of having to woo the political class of his own party.....the RINOs, the NeverTrumpers, the Ripon Society, the Liberal Republicans. He managed to win the election by capturing the Center. He won the Independent voters and the conservatives that backed Ted Cruz had no where else to go. Hillary lost the Center and the Independent vote by moving to the Far Left and trying to kiss and make up with the Bernie Radicals. She should have ignored them and contested for the Independent voters. The Republican and Democrats have roughly the same number of voters, so it is the Independents who cast the deciding vote.

I am glad the Ryancare was pulled, although I would not have minded if it had been put to a vote, to remove all doubt. Obamacare is one of the worst things that Obama did during his two terms and it should be repealed completely. Set it to expire by the end of the Federal fiscal year (September 30) and see if Congress can agree on something to replace Obamacare. If they fail, we can restore freedom and sanity to the health care market. In the meantime, they have reason to agree with a time factor.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 25, 2017 3:35 PM  

Only 1/4 the population are under 21 after all and with TFR and birth rates the way they are (Europe level) , its not going up .

@116 A.B.Prosper
And unsurprisingly, Obamacare keeps fertility down by soaking the young, who are the only people able to reproduce (aside from a very few old men).

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 25, 2017 3:36 PM  

It's unfortunate that Ryancare lost in such a pathetic manner due to Ryan's poor leadership. Clearly, Ryan no longer has the support, and trust, of many of the House Republicans. What can be done to remedy this situation?

Blogger Gaiseric March 25, 2017 3:38 PM  

A few data points:
- Bannon dislike of Paul Ryan is on record.
- Trump pushed Ryan forward into a scenario in which Ryan would be the fall guy for betraying the voters.
- Bannon said a day out two ago that the bill looked like it had been written by insurance companies.
- Bannon is, of course, a well-zombie Trunk operative and surrogate.

This doesn't really hurt the God Emperor all that much, but Ryan's career is toast.

Thesis: Bannon and Trump hatched up this plan which simultaneously 1) sirens the resolve of the conservatives, 2) cuts the legs out from under the cucks, 3) removes Ryan altogether as a player of note. And all at very little cost to himself.

Blogger Student in Blue March 25, 2017 3:38 PM  

He managed to win the election by capturing the Center.

If by "center" you mean the moderates, that is not what happened whatsoever.

Hillary lost the Center and the Independent vote by moving to the Far Left and trying to kiss and make up with the Bernie Radicals.

Hillary alienated the Berners with the DNC shenanigans. Her criminality and utter incompetence is what made her lose, not because she was pandering to the Far Left - because in many cases she wasn't quite pandering to them. She made some nice-sounding overtures but never quite came out for them.

Blogger Frank Brady March 25, 2017 3:40 PM  

praetorian wrote:1. Come on praetorian. It's really not that hard. Just divide total spending by each European government by each European country's population and, voila, there you have it.

It must be nice being that smart. Here I was thinking that healthcare was more complex than that. Foolishly, I thought European governments did other things besides pay for healthcare.

Do you also think international free trade is obviously better than restricted international trade, based on first principles libertarian reasoning? I ask because I used to think that, and I also used to think very similarly to you on the question of healthcare. I was quite certain of myself then, as you are now. As I have gotten older and dumber, however, things don't appear as obvious to me.


Forgive me for not addressing the international trade diversion at the moment.

Our “health care” system is insurance-centered, not patient-centered. “Obamacare” was designed to sell hospital insurance. So was "Ryancare".

“Health care” is a made-up term coined in the 1940s after employers begin to offer hospital insurance as a benefit to get around war time wage and price controls. Until then, most Americans did not have hospital insurance.

The term “health care” conflates insurance costs with medical and hospital service costs, effectively hiding the fact that the insurance-based “Third Party Payment System” (Medicare, Medicaid, Blue Cross and Commercial Insurers) is directly responsible for at least 40% of today’s “health care” costs. Hospital insurance does not provide medical care.

The insurance-based “Third Party Payment System” (Medicare, Medicaid, Blue Cross and Commercial Insurers) has been distorting the market for more than half a century. If the Third Party Payment System did not exist, the real cost of medical and hospital care would plummet.

n any given year, only 1 in 4 Americans will incur medical expenses greater than what they pay for hospital insurance. For those under 50, the odds against incurring that much in medical expenses are even greater. The Third Party Payer System has priced itself out of the primary care market. For most people primary care insurance is a bad bet. Most would be better off to save the premium and pay out of pocket. However, everyone should be encouraged to voluntarily maintain catastrophic coverage to protect against the cost of a major illness or injury.

Blogger Gaiseric March 25, 2017 3:40 PM  

Uh... Well-known. And stiffens the resolve of the conservatives. Although I dibs the typos amusing.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 25, 2017 3:41 PM  

@VFM #7634

"And unsurprisingly, Obamacare keeps fertility down by soaking the young, who are the only people able to reproduce"

Didn't quite catch that aspect of it. Thanks. Obvious once you point it out. Like promoting homosexualism, abortion, trannies, desegregation leading to the need for expensive "Good school districts" or private schools, student loans for expensive, useless college degrees, Third World immigration to drive down wages...

Blogger KJE March 25, 2017 3:43 PM  

At the end of the day, Trump not winning still means one very important thing...

...not Hillary.

Blogger JWM in SD March 25, 2017 3:51 PM  

Gaiseric wrote:This doesn't really hurt the God Emperor all that much, but Ryan's career is toast.

Thesis: Bannon and Trump hatched up this plan which simultaneously 1) sirens the resolve of the conservatives, 2) cuts the legs out from under the cucks, 3) removes Ryan altogether as a player of note. And all at very little cost to himself.


I think you're right. MSM will try to spin but that will only have limited effect. I know Cerno is saying that Ryan has to go because GE can't build the wall with him as speaker. That kind of implies that the wall is a bigger issue than health care though which I don't agree with.

Blogger DonReynolds March 25, 2017 3:53 PM  

During my uneventful career as an economist, I spent a number of years teaching health care economics and health care finance. I was Bill Clinton's Medical Economist during his first term as governor. Seventeen years later, I was called back to be Mike Huckabee's Medical Economist, when he was governor. Both of them fired me because I told them the same thing....There is no magic spell. If you give the medical economy more money, they will demand even more. There is virtually NO END to the costs that they can imagine or innovate and the "justification" is always the same...it is for the patients. Which is not true. It is about money.

A couple of decades ago, the AMA elected a president from Nashville and in his acceptance speech he said that 90 percent of everything that people went to see the doctor about, would actually go away on its own by doing nothing. That was a remarkable admission for a MD. What people want is a quick cure, relief from pain, and to control some of the uncomfortable symptoms, while they healed.

Medical costs are out of control and have been for decades. The old devices that managed to restrain the costs of health care in the past have been repealed and abandoned. The political reality in this country is simple....the health care industry is extremely profitable and they use their profits to influence politics and get favorable legislation. They get it and the cycle repeats every election. There is no donor class that advocates for the patient or the patient's wallet. The normal guards of the public treasury are helping carry the money to health care. I see little reason to be optimistic, since there is no discussion about stopping the growth in spending.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 25, 2017 3:55 PM  

The real, and biggest, problem with how health insurance works in this country is that it pays for everything. Real insurance should pay for unexpected and devastating events. You don't expect your homeowner's insurance to pay for painting and yard work. You don't expect your auto insurance to pay for a brake job. Why do you expect your health insurance to pay for routine health care?

And, as Denninger never tires of pointing out, the effective cartel we have in all healthcare services means that they are extracting monopoly profits. I remember reading an article a few years ago in some Libertarian website. The reporter called every hospital and surgical clinic in Western Washington to get a price for a knee replacement. Several of the institutions couldn't even give him a price. They had no idea what it would cost, presumably because they made the numbers up on the fly depending on what they thought they could get away with. Among the facilities that could actually state a price, they ran the gamut from $8500 to $65,000. All for the same procedure.
I did a version of the same thing two years ago when I needed arthroscopic surgery to repair a torn meniscus in my left knee. My orthoped has his own surgical clinic and told me up front it would cost $4500. I called around to local hospitals, and got prices in the $18,000 to $30,000 range, including one that simply could not come up with a price. I called a couple of independent surgeries like my doctor's, and they were in line with his price, $4000 to $6500.

U PC BRO? wrote:I take an oral chemotherapy drug. It costs $2,300 for a 2 week cycle. The same exact shit is available for $175 a cycle if I source it overseas. Made in Australia, not some SE Asian counterfeit shit. My doctor won't supervise my care if I source overseas though because they can't verify the drug is legit, or some such bullshit.
For $1000 a week, you could afford a nice vacation in Australia. Not 4-star or anything, but nice, on the beach.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 25, 2017 3:57 PM  

Most people don't really understand what "insurance" actually is, nor what a "risk pool" is. The gradual bureaucratization of medicine in the US from Truman on has not delivered on the promises made, but that doesn't matter because most of the debate is pure rhetoric of the "throwing old people out into the snowbank" variety.

Sending the N million illegals out of the country would buy some time for the US by relieving emergency rooms of the primary care burden that was dumped on them in the 1990's. The Europeans are learning their version of this with the ongoing colonization. What worked in France or Sweden 40 years ago in countries 99% white European is coming apart as more and more Africans, Arabs & others pile into the system. They contribute nothing, and cost at least something.

Any fully Federalized single-payer scheme will have two features, like it or not. First, there will be an escape hatch for the rich. 0bama, Bloomberg, Pelosi, Kerry, Cuckerberg, etc. won't be in the system. Congress won't be in the system, the federal bureaucrats won't be in the system. Only the little people. Combine that with the swamp media picking and choosing what fake news to report, and any honest assessment of "is it working or not" will be impossible.

Second, under any DNCe president a single payer system will be used against white Americans. It won't be obvious, no FEMA camps for aging boomers. Just an adjustment in hospice here, a "not enough beds so go home" there, an "this less effective drug is all you get" somewhere else.

Be careful about wishing for single payer. It won't be what is promised.

Anonymous Avalanche March 25, 2017 4:00 PM  

@58 "Because you're never sure whether any given illness will be your last or not, and you're given hospital treatment the same as you would if it wasn't. But you don't get better, so you stay in the hospital till you die."

Not so! Go read Atul Gawande's book "Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End."

Everyone says they want to die at home,in their own bed with their family around them. But everything about our "medical" system is geared against that!

From two Amazon reviews:
"Dr. Gawande shows how end-of-life physical conditions are most often treated as medical crises needing to be "fixed," instead of managed for quality of life when treatment has become futile. Life is more than just a stretch of years; it must have meaning and purpose to be worth living, he says. This is a familiar concept ..., but he builds a strong case for reform through case studies, stories from his own life, and examples of how individuals are either becoming victims of, or bucking, the system...."

and

"In this new book "Being Mortal," Gawande looks at the problems of the aging population and inevitability of death. He points out that you don't have to spend much time with the elderly or those with terminal conditions to see how common it is for modern medicine to fail the people it is supposed to be helping. In speaking of elder care he sadly points out that "Our reluctance to honestly examine the experience of aging and dying has increased the harm and suffering we inflict on people and has denied them the basic comforts they need most." Many physicians are so hell bent on preserving life that they cause horrible and unnecessary suffering.
...
Gawande ... reveal[s] ... how friends and family coped with these powerful and challenging issues. He follows a hospice nurse on her rounds. He discloses how is mother-in-law Alice's life is changed by taking up residence in a senior facility as the only reasonable option. Senior facilities and nursing homes, even the best run, are often sterile institutions that can cause psychological anguish. He includes how he dealt with the final wishes of his father. It is a melancholy yet empowering picture of a man and physician honoring his father."


My own comment (okay, harangue): He describes how many many doctors have living trusts to prevent them from being subjected to the torture "we" subject old folks to at the end of life. THEY have seen and performed such 'tortures' to people who are NOT cognizant of the actual chances of death (or slim or no chances for life) if subjected to the horrors of "we'll try everything."

Doctors do not say to (very sick or very old) patients that some huge proportion of people with this illness, this injury -- even if hospitalized and treated "heroically" -- only get another 20 days, or two months of "life" -- but it includes pipes and tubes and vomiting and burning of mucus membranes (cut 'em, burn 'em, poison 'em: our current treatments for most cancers!) and such horrors we would jail someone for doing to a healthy person!

Doctors have an idea of the chances someone is ACTUALLY going to get out of the hospital / rehab. They know when there will likely be no going home, no dying in their own bed, no spending time with family: just the horrors of being tied to a bed or wheelchair, drugged up to prevent injury (or screaming), and piss-poor pain management. They KNOW that the pablum: "we'll hospitalize you and see how you do," often means there is NO decent chance they WILL get better enough to go home.

(Sorry, you hit a real nerve here!)

Anonymous The OASF March 25, 2017 4:05 PM  

Is it possible that maybe... just MAYBE... Trump was setting Ryan up to fail?

I would say almost assuredly and would be basking in his glory, however Trump's picks for his cabinet and that horrible Supreme Court nomination seem to shoot that theory down.

I also liked RINOCARE as better rhetoric than Ryancare. Just saying...

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 25, 2017 4:05 PM  

In a different country I once had health insurance that was simple. There was a monthly deduction from my paycheck, smaller than tax or retirement. There was a deductible equal to about 1/2 of a month's pay. If I spent more than that deductible in a year, the insurance would then pay or reimburse 80% of all expenses for the rest of the year. It was inexpensive and I was covered in case of something bad, like a car accident. It worked well enough, and covered some expenses a couple of years in a row.

People don't want that kind of insurance because they don't understand what "insurance" is. They want a fairy with a wand, or a free pot of gold, or mommy to make all better. Not a risk pool that they pay into regularly and hope to never make a withdrawal from.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 25, 2017 4:11 PM  

Avalanche wrote:Doctors have an idea of the chances someone is ACTUALLY going to get out of the hospital / rehab.
In my experience, doctors actually have little idea and habitually err to the pessimist side.

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:In a different country I once had health insurance that was simple. There was a monthly deduction from my paycheck, smaller than tax or retirement. There was a deductible equal to about 1/2 of a month's pay. If I spent more than that deductible in a year, the insurance would then pay or reimburse 80% of all expenses for the rest of the year. It was inexpensive and I was covered in case of something bad, like a car accident. It worked well enough, and covered some expenses a couple of years in a row.
I used to have that as well. That different country was the USA in the 1980s.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 25, 2017 4:14 PM  

I know Cerno is saying that Ryan has to go because GE can't build the wall with him as speaker. That kind of implies that the wall is a bigger issue than health care though which I don't agree with.

@127 JWM in SD
One common reason given for the high cost of health care is illegal aliens using our emergency rooms for free. I'm sure there are other factors, but immigration control is itself a crucial part of healthcare reform.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 25, 2017 4:21 PM  

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:@VFM #7634

"And unsurprisingly, Obamacare keeps fertility down by soaking the young, who are the only people able to reproduce"

Didn't quite catch that aspect of it. Thanks. Obvious once you point it out. Like promoting homosexualism, abortion, trannies, desegregation leading to the need for expensive "Good school districts" or private schools, student loans for expensive, useless college degrees, Third World immigration to drive down wages...


All of these things have had an effect and the ACA and other taxes along with population aging and urbanization have reduced the absolute numbers per capita to the lowest in US history, we are roughly at Russia level now and the total numbers of babies born , look bad. Anecdotally while I live in a Mexified area I see a lot less baby bumps than a few years ago with every race though the White people we have out here tend to run fertile either Evangelical, LDS or White Nationalist (saw a dude 14-88 type tats and like 5 kids)

However its not all caused Cultural Marxism and Immigration, the fertility rate started to tank in 1972 (just below replacement) before the full invasion or full feminism when the baby boom ended and gas started to rise

It has been somewhat consistently low since than. We had one year, the faux boom of 2007 with a lot of babies born (the last of the Gen X, some Gen Y and the Mexicans) but a rate of 2.1, just replacement level

Functionally its economic, my take on it is that birth control and abortion allow people the option to not act against their perceived economic and other interests

Anyone with a three digit IQ can control how many kids they have, since work and income is unsteady and cost keep going up, the logical and rational choice is to opt out. So people do

We wanted homo-economicus and have started to get it with disastrous results

Srill when women get too irrational with baby rabies, you get all the illegitimate kids (38% for Whites, ouch)

As economic uncertainty (i.e globalism, post industrialism, two-worker trap) and Cultural Marxism continues, the healthy TFR gets lower

Its a carrying capacity issue, the way our societies are rigged are over the carrying capacity for moderate to high IQ people other than the religious

I don't think there is any way out or honestly any need to end it anyway. Its self correcting so long as we maintain our borders and restrict immigration it will end itself either with a much more religious/cultural population who is immune to modernity or by shrinking to a smaller more manageable amount

A US with say 60-160 million people that was 90% White would be a very pleasant place if we could keep it

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 25, 2017 4:21 PM  

Medicaid is the Federal health care system for poor people. "Poor" keeps changing. It's a money transfer from the middle class. In 24 states half of the births were paid for by Medicaid.

In a few states 60% or even 70% of births were paid for by medicaid. This is what a single payer system in the US will look like, moar free stuff for illiterate colonizers.

Blogger Dire Badger March 25, 2017 4:23 PM  

There's a reason the Hippocratic Oath is 'first, do no harm' and not 'first, save all lives'.

Blogger DonReynolds March 25, 2017 4:30 PM  

@136 A.B. Prosper
The last time I checked, 49 states have a white birth rate below replacement. The only exception was Utah....that's right, those Mormon women are still at it.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 25, 2017 4:32 PM  

I think the key thing here is that the God-Emperor learns who his allies are.

I agree that that's a good thing, but I can't imagine there's much left to learn in that regard. Any of us could have given him a list of allies and enemies months ago, and the Paul Ryan entry would have said something like, "Major cuck. Will pretend to be on board and then get nothing done, while working to undermine you behind the scenes." I assumed Trump and Bannon knew those things by the election, if not far sooner.

Anonymous Avalanche March 25, 2017 4:35 PM  

@73 "Rather than get rid of Medicare, expand it. To avoid overloading the system, extend eligibility down, say, five years at a time on a yearly basis until it becomes our national healthcare system."

Looooong before it gets to be the national health insurance (NOT health "care") system; we'll completely run out of doctors. My 92-yr-old mother's GP gets a whopping $8 per appt to see her. He, like many docs, has to limit how many Medicare patients he accepts, or he'll go bankrupt. Would YOU go into medicine if you knew you'd be forced to spend a couple hundred thou to get the license, and then get paid $8 a visit! Just how many patients can you cram into a single working day?! How many tests can you justify in order to make more than $16 an hour?!

Strongly recommend the great lecture by Dr Dug McGuff (author of "Body By Science," a superb weightlifting book!) called; "Fitness, Health, and Liberty: Preserving Personal Freedom by Staying Out of the Belly of the Beast" at the 21 Convention 4 years ago. (He's an ER phyiscian who also owns a gym. Great book, great guy! Great lecture!)


Blogger DonReynolds March 25, 2017 4:38 PM  

@134 Snidely Whiplash
"In my experience, doctors actually have little idea and habitually err to the pessimist side."

They actually cannot say anything other than what the regulations call for. Under the DRGs (Diagnosis Related Groups) the Length of Stay was pretty much fixed, whether you feel better or not. They exaggerate your diagnosis as much as they can to up the reimbursement rate under Utilization Review, which often means a longer stay in an Acute Care setting. There is some play if they release you to a nursing home or home health, but the best way to get out of the hospital is to "left against medical advice" and go home. Your doctor may retaliate by dropping you as a patient if he is unhappy.

Anonymous EH March 25, 2017 4:41 PM  

Scott Adams' take on GEDJT's* strategy:
"With the failure of the Ryan healthcare bill, the illusion of Trump-is-Hitler has been fully replaced with Trump-is-incompetent meme. Look for the new meme to dominate the news, probably through the summer. By year end, you will see a second turn, from incompetent to 'Competent, but we don’t like it.' "

*Not to be confused with "Gidget", the cute chick in the 1959 surf movie of the same name.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 25, 2017 4:47 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:@136 A.B. Prosper

The last time I checked, 49 states have a white birth rate below replacement. The only exception was Utah....that's right, those Mormon women are still at it.


I think South Dakota may also be at replacement or so but yeah , The national average is at 1.8 or so, European level basically and this includes all races

Also the TFR in Utah as a whole is about that of the US as a whole at the end of the baby boom. Its good but its not that good.

Anonymous Avalanche March 25, 2017 4:54 PM  

@84 "As with other things it is worth looking at what the swiss do."

You mean things like protect their borders? Have a population that is quite homogeneous? (And NOT swamped by low-IQ Third Worlders?!)

Interesting article at Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/04/29/why-switzerland-has-the-worlds-best-health-care-system/#3da906a07d74

Anonymous Avalanche March 25, 2017 5:01 PM  

@97 "The emergency room has become our defacto single payer provider, except if an uninsured middle class person shows up we make sure to bankrupt him for his temerity."

Bravo, exactly in SPADES! They(literally -- ask an hospital doctor, see if he'll tell you the truth!) TRIPLE the costs for the uninsured White person, because they KNOW they can successfully threaten us! Damn near bankrupted me!

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 25, 2017 5:08 PM  

You can boot every colonizer tomorrow and you won't end up much better off economically in the long term. It will buy you a few decades and public safety though which is well worth it,

According to CNBC (and verified by WebMD) a typical uncomplicated vaginal birth costs eight grand

Most new jobs are low pay and part time and unstable, 90% of those under Obama

70% of households have less than 1k in savings . They simply can't pay for the expenses and and given cost of housing , food and the like, probably can't save enough in any reasonable time.

Do you really expect people to scrimp and save for say four years just to have a child? They aren't going to do that, they are already putting off children now and can reduce the number further

Fact is automation and computers along with free trade degrade and immigration the value of labor and are essentially identical to voting in Socialism or engineering an collapse

The irony is the only reason the US isn't basically run by the Bernie Bro's now is the very things that are destroying it , Immigration, Cultural Marxism and the bloated warfare state

The US was kind of founded on "I don't want to pay for that." rebellion, whiskey rebellion , slavery all that.

That kind of attitude won't fly with complex societies and once the US is no longer the reserve currency, it game over,

We'll end up a slightly more affluent Mexico or if we remove the colonists, slightly more affluent Poland or the like.

It can't be avoided without massive changes to marriage, work , priorities and I can't see those ever happening, I'd expect to see a civil war long before that




Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 25, 2017 5:09 PM  

DonReynolds wrote:They exaggerate your diagnosis as much as they can to up the reimbursement rate under Utilization Review, which often means a longer stay in an Acute Care setting.
I had occasion to use the ER for myself or my family, 7 times over the last 20 years. As my insurance paid ER rates for the first 5 hours, in every single instance, we were there for 5 hours. Kidney stone? 5 hours. Deep laceration? 5 hours. Foreign object in eye? 5 hours. Broken ankle? 5 hours.
I'm sure it's just coincidental.

Anonymous Avalanche March 25, 2017 5:16 PM  

@116 "Only 1/4 the population are under 21 after all and with TFR and birth rates the way they are (Europe level), its not going up ."

I have to challenge your premise. MOST white families only have one or two kids NOT because they want so few, but because they're staggering under tax loads that require both partners to work to keep at house and single child! As long as middle class and above White families have to pay for LaQuinta's seven bastards, including their housing and extra schooling to TRY (but keep failing) to make them somewhat productive and income earning; those families will NOT burden themselves with financial costs they cannot carry AND Provide for more than one child; maybe two children at best!

Send ALLLLLLL the immigrants back; STOP supporting bastardy and FORCE sperm donors to pay for what they plant -- force baby mommies to WORK for their charity support... MAYBE we'd see an increase in White middle-class babies!! I'm all for bringing back poor houses and forced sterilization, but people seem to think that's harsh.... oh well, less harsh than civil war!

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 5:19 PM  

Forgive me for not addressing the international trade diversion at the moment.

I will, but you see my point I hope.

Our “health care” system is insurance-centered, not patient-centered. “Obamacare” was designed to sell hospital insurance. So was "Ryancare".

Completely agree.

If the Third Party Payment System did not exist, the real cost of medical and hospital care would plummet.

I'm not sure about that, but it might be the case. NAFTA was supposed to inspire a new round of untold prosperity, and yet it didn't (for all but a few Americans, anyway.) Demand for many (not all) modern medical services is inelastic and requires large capital outlays, so I think a market-based solution might end up oligopic, rather than pricing like a commodity.

I'm instinctively sympathetic to your arguments, but I no longer think they are obviously correct. The swiss model is interesting and my understanding is that they spend far less as a goverment per-capita than the US:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/04/29/why-switzerland-has-the-worlds-best-health-care-system/#396ea29f7d74

Now, the real answer here might just be: have a country filled with swiss. I'm willing to concede that as likely. But if that is true then we have already admitted there are variables outside the payment structure of the health care system that have dramatic effects on its performance.

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 5:20 PM  

You mean things like protect their borders? Have a population that is quite homogeneous? (And NOT swamped by low-IQ Third Worlders?!)

Absolutely.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 25, 2017 5:21 PM  

According to CNBC (and verified by WebMD) a typical uncomplicated vaginal birth costs eight grand


Ok. What's the actual cost, though? Pick some plastic surgery procedure that's comparable in terms of time, risk, doctor skill level. What does that cost?

You seem to have missed most of the postings here. Perhaps you could read them?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 25, 2017 5:33 PM  

praetorian wrote:NAFTA was supposed to inspire a new round of untold prosperity, and yet it didn't (for all but a few Americans, anyway.)
Oh it did, it did. In Mexico, that is. Which was the intention.
Boost the wages of the working class, boost the profits of the investing class, ship the unproductive, criminal and surplus population north, lure the Central Americans out of the country, NAFTA achieved all of it's objectives.

Blogger James Dixon March 25, 2017 6:05 PM  

> Foolishly, I thought European governments did other things besides pay for healthcare.

Seriously? Health care and other social programs are about it. Police/courts/etc. are minimal costs in comparison and we cover most of the military spending.

> Doctors have an idea of the chances someone is ACTUALLY going to get out of the hospital / rehab.

They may have, but the patients don't. And most doctor's apparently won't tell them.

Blogger Student in Blue March 25, 2017 6:22 PM  

@132. The OASF
Is it possible that maybe... just MAYBE... Trump was setting Ryan up to fail?

I believe it's more likely that Trump was setting it up so that he wins if Ryan succeeds, and he wins if Ryan doesn't succeed.

Blogger praetorian March 25, 2017 6:38 PM  

Seriously? Health care and other social programs are about it. Police/courts/etc. are minimal costs in comparison and we cover most of the military spending.

Here is some data on healthcare spending per capita:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

Note that the US is the worse and US public spending alone is higher than many developed countries in total. Japan, for example.

Now, this is apples to oranges stuff, of course, but obamacare isn't what screwed the US relative to other countries, and us avoiding the horrors of (not admitting to ourselves that we have dysgenic) single payer hasn't appeared to help us out much either. Maybe the US is subsidizing the rest of the world. Maybe a libertarian health mall, with doctors barking prices from their doorway, would make a baby cost $100. Maybe we just suck. Dunno.

The swiss seem happy.

Blogger Natalie March 25, 2017 8:13 PM  

Having a trained birth professional at a birth is it's own from of catastrophic insurance. If you could stare into a crystal ball and foretell an uncomplicated vaginal birth you could just stay home and lay in $50 of supplies. Part of what makes birth expensive is over-reliance on medical technology, price gouging, and lack of access to midwifery care (either in hospital or out) for low risk mothers. I say this as a woman who has reason to be grateful for modern obstetric care.

Blogger Happy LP9 March 25, 2017 8:15 PM  

This was a victory for POTUS Trump, it will work out in his & our favor in that He is outing the deep staters and outing how the American pple were financially raped, thrown off our care onto either medicare or medicaid without any choice at all. The DNCRNC bifactionals are in a tail spin not the administration, the admin is doing alright.

Paul Ryan and these other pple are not going to remain or reside in any kind of power, the American people are done with them.

Anonymous Osbert March 25, 2017 8:48 PM  

RyanCare has been a huge distraction from dealing with the single most important issue for Trump's base -- REDUCING IMMIGRATION (and not just illegal immigration, either). The sooner Trump pivots back to immigration, the better.

Blogger Lazarus March 25, 2017 9:42 PM  

Weekly address....not negative

https://www.c-span.org/video/?426000-1/weekly-presidential-address

Anonymous krymneth March 25, 2017 10:12 PM  

If the plan is to label Trump as a do-nothing incompetent, that'll hold up for all of two or three news cycles. You can't both tell people about how incompetent he is and how he doesn't get anything done, and panic people thrice weekly about the horrible things he's doing.

If this really is the plan, it's another example of Democrat's continuing inability to think more than one step ahead. There is simply no way to both keep the base riled up about how dangerous he is and keep telling the base that he's not actually able to do anything. From the Bush era we know they can keep the sound-and-fury rolling along, but the base itself wasn't riled up enough to, say, prevent his re-election. (And, yes, Bush was a member of the uniparty in the end but I still think overall they'd have preferred to get him out sooner.) If he's "incompetent" then the base can just sit back and wait him out, which the uniparty leadership will rapidly remember that's not what they want the people to think.

The "incompetence" meme may literally not last the week, and it certainly won't last the month. Trolls on this thread are advised to watch their email accounts carefully this week; I expect you to get your new narrative rather soon. Enjoy this one while you can.

From this perspective, Scott Adams is definitely correct. While Trump may have taken a small (and virtually inevitable) political hit, if that comes with the Dems flipping to an "incompetence" memeset it's a huge win for him in the long run.

Blogger Johnny March 25, 2017 10:52 PM  

To look for a possible bright side in all this, maybe Trump can use it as an excuse to move away from the healthcare issue. Overall the whole thing looks like a loser issue. A new handout program that nobody wants to foot the bill for.

Blogger Gaiseric March 25, 2017 11:23 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Gaiseric March 25, 2017 11:25 PM  

Seeing the blowback today, I'm more convinced than ever that this whole thing was a rather clever move to remove Ryan. Bannon and Spicer had their part to play, and Trump even tweeted about a guest star role on Jeanine Pirro's show on Fox where she openly called for him to step down.

In retrospect, it looks highly organized and they're not even hiding the clues that it was a hit job on the biggest establishment voice that was going to give the God Emperor grief for years to come.

Blogger American Spartan March 26, 2017 12:03 AM  

Zarathustra's Bastard wrote:From the outside, American health care seems like an insanity. It's more expensive than public systems with more graft, but without universal coverage.

The system needs a total overhaul, but that's political suicide. Can anyone believe English speaking democracy will last another century?


Hyper Inclusive Mass Democracy, open borders, mass immigration is going to die very, very soon.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 26, 2017 12:33 AM  

Avalanche wrote:@116 "Only 1/4 the population are under 21 after all and with TFR and birth rates the way they are (Europe level), its not going up ."

I have to challenge your premise. MOST white families only have one or two kids NOT because they want so few, but because they're staggering under tax loads that require both partners to work to keep at house and single child!

Send ALLLLLLL the immigrants back; STOP supporting bastardy and FORCE sperm donors to pay for what they plant -- force baby mommies to WORK for their charity support... MAYBE we'd see an increase in White middle-class babies!! I'm all for bringing back poor houses and forced sterilization, but people seem to think that's harsh.... oh well, less harsh than civil war!


Wages have declined (measured as percentage GDP) by 50% from 1973 and its right in lockstep with the decline in population

Looking at White people in Europe and the West with similar levels of development, the birth rates are nearly identical everywhere ranging from 1.3 to 1.8 . The amount of Cultural Marxism, Religion and Social Democracy have basically no effect . In fact White Swedes have as many babies or more babies than White Americans !

In fact several somewhat less developed nations (Hungary and Poland) with much higher levels of religion have fertility on the lower end of the scale. They would I assume want more kids but this does not seem to be the case. Also with so many babies being born out of wedlock (70% for Blacks, 50% for Hispanics, 33% for Whites) its impossible to effectively do anything about it.

In theory if male birth control was an option and men were paid to use it, the rate would decline but the technlogy isn't quite ready and even if it was ,while decent Black men would use it gladly good luck getting something that stops the vast majority of Black births and the majority of Hispanic births approved. The net result would be roughly a 33% decline in fertility (allowing for a few to get through and for 10% of the out of wedlock births to be "common law" married or couples )

This would drop the US TFR from 1.8 to 1.3 or some, German level and as such the elite won't allow it. Also forced sterilization? . .If someone decided to forcefully sterilize my people, I'd rebel and I suspect many others would too.

You can cut off welfare and go to orphanages and make work houses I suppose , its cheaper but I have no idea what the long term effects in a post industrial economy would be

Also re: taxes, they are too high . Virtually everything the government takes in is spent on old age pensions, military and health care. The rest is borrowed .The US could roughly cut defense spending in half and go to austerity assuming we kept social security and this would at at most add 8k to a house hold that pays Federal income tax. This is pretty good but its only half of households and the rest won't be helped.
On top of that the debt will still keep building. Basically we can go to austerity and save the US from default or cut taxes for some households and hope for a baby boom which may never come

That said if we can restore the pre 65 demographic balance, we might be able to buy time and get cheaper housing and slightly higher wages but it may have no effect on birth rates

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 26, 2017 1:27 AM  

If total fertility is a genetic trait (and we have no reason to think it is not), the situation will achieve balance in a couple of generations at most.
If the school system would stop anti-fertility indoctrination of young girls, it might balance sooner.
Literally of hundreds of millions of dollars is spent each year to indoctrinate young girls against fertility, and people are surprised that fertility has gone down.

Blogger Lazarus March 26, 2017 5:42 AM  

A.B. Prosper wrote:Looking at White people in Europe and the West with similar levels of development, the birth rates are nearly identical everywhere ranging from 1.3 to 1.8 . The amount of Cultural Marxism, Religion and Social Democracy have basically no effect . In fact White Swedes have as many babies or more babies than White Americans !

Your right, if you assume Cultural Marxism and Social Democracy started in the 70's. But if one assumed that, they would be an historical ignoramus.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper March 26, 2017 8:13 PM  

Laz, you misread me. In current times the amount of CM or SD compared among nations don't seem to have an effect on the TFR at all.

Also while the Frankfurt school was part if the decline and no doubt has an influence on the TFR decline I am not convinced its all of the cause of the decline

The US was not heavily Culturally Marxist in 1972 when out decline began. what did happen is the industrial age started to decline with the oil crisis and the US moved to a more urban society . It could also be related to color TV becoming ubiquitous as well. Brazil used that medium to drop the TFR to 2 or so with great effect and given the poverty there and ecological degradation, its a positive trend

Also I am far from sure that people correctly report how many children they want . My guess is that its correctly roughly two for most people with enough twins and outliers to have a maximum rate of 2 and small change. 2.0-2.3 2.1 is what it would be optimally maybe surging to 2.2 or 2.3

There also is't any known happiness premium for larger families that can be extrapolated to the general population. Its actually correlated negatively

Generally people have many children if they neighbors have many children but even that has a limited effect the TFR in Utah is high but its near the end of the baby boom and its conditionally well situated for large families,

What's happening is that technlogy provides more options for things to do and the means (birth control and ugh abortion) for people to have actual family planning and to act within their own interests

Remember the cost of a child can be the difference between comfort and poverty and the sensibleness act is to choose comfort and to not against ones own interests.

Society needs to grow up, accept that technlogy has changed and that high tech urban societies will be lucky to get replacement . The Baby Boom was an anomaly , not the restoration of any norm

That said the one thing that hasn't been tried and might work is getting people wages up. If wages were what they were in 1973 as percentage GDP we could see more one and one part time worker families with less sacrifice

That however requires some huge changes in education, demography and culture that would only happen over long term (4 decades or so) and with harsh leadership

Anonymous Rollory March 26, 2017 10:26 PM  

@76

No. You don't know enough about the topic to comment. Go read Denninger's piece on this (post date 3/26), it will summarize the relevant facts for you. There is plenty of other evidence elsewhere once you know what to look for.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable March 27, 2017 6:45 AM  

Avalanche wrote:I have to challenge your premise. MOST white families only have one or two kids NOT because they want so few, but because they're staggering under tax loads that require both partners to work to keep at house and single child! As long as middle class and above White families have to pay for LaQuinta's seven bastards, including their housing and extra schooling to TRY (but keep failing) to make them somewhat productive and income earning; those families will NOT burden themselves with financial costs they cannot carry AND Provide for more than one child; maybe two children at best!

Send ALLLLLLL the immigrants back; STOP supporting bastardy and FORCE sperm donors to pay for what they plant -- force baby mommies to WORK for their charity support... MAYBE we'd see an increase in White middle-class babies!! I'm all for bringing back poor houses and forced sterilization, but people seem to think that's harsh.... oh well, less harsh than civil war!


I have so much hate. The current set-up is clearly specifically designed to engineer the long slow decline in Native European population that is being seen in practice. And the midwits think we can't figure out their plans. Well guess what Starwind, Jose, Mohammed, Raj, T-Bone, & etc., you think we real Americans don't know what you're doing to us and don't hate you for it?

You're wrong.

We're just being polite to your face.

For now.

Blogger Olivia Smith March 29, 2017 10:41 AM  

Hello everyone, I'm here to let the whole world know of a man called Dr. Ekpen he is a spell caster and he is the man that helps me in my restore my marriage when my husband broke up with me, he use his power and gift to restore joy in my relationship. I want to also let the whole world know that he can still help if you are been blackmail by someone or you want to win a court case he can help. Contact him today via email: ekpentemple@gmail.com or you can whatsapp him on +2347050270218.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts