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Tuesday, March 21, 2017

That ship has sunk

The God-Emperor tells Republicans to get in line:
President Donald Trump arrived on Capitol Hill Tuesday morning with a stern message for Republicans who've been wobbly about dismantling Obamacare: Give me your vote or you may lose your seat in 2018.

During a closed-door meeting with the House GOP conference, the president gave a full-throated endorsement to the House repeal bill that will come to the floor for a vote on Thursday. He warned that if Republicans don't pass the bill, "I honestly think many of you will lose your seats in 2018."

Trump even called out the bill's most vocal critic in the House, Freedom Caucus Chairman Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), who's led the conservative opposition to the Republican health care plan. "Mark, I'm gonna come after you" if he keeps it up, Trump said, according to multiple sources.

The sources cautioned that Trump may have been "half joking," as one put it. He winked and he smiled at Meadows, and acknowledged the congressman was a strong supporter of his campaign.

But singling out Meadows in front of his colleagues sent a clear message: Trump wants him to get in line. And fast.
I have no doubt that the bill isn't as good as it should be. Who cares? The point is that Republicans have to stop pretending that they're going to act someday and start acting. Their careers depend upon it.

No one is interested in the noble principles and noble defeats of conservatism any longer. That ship has sunk.

Labels:

281 Comments:

1 – 200 of 281 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Almodavar March 21, 2017 1:05 PM  

It's a shit bill and any Republican who votes for it needs to get primaried in 2018.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 1:06 PM  

The current bill is complete garbage and is both worse than Obamacare and worse than straight repeal.

Blogger David Holden March 21, 2017 1:11 PM  

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/norquist-this-week-guaranteed-trumps-re-election-gop-gains-in-2018-and-2020/article/2617794

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni March 21, 2017 1:12 PM  

Trump didn't wait to tear down an existing building on a particular parcel until he had a perfect plan for a new one. He has always negotiated to success, not perfection.

Blogger David Holden March 21, 2017 1:13 PM  


Remember the date of March 13, 2017. It was the day President Trump was guaranteed his re-election and Republican congressional gains in 2018 and 2020.

It's not complicated. Follow along.

The Congressional Budget Office released its study of Trump and Paul Ryan's plan to repeal Obamacare and begin to reform our healthcare system. It had many numbers. Only two mattered: taxes and spending.
CBO announced that the repeal bill reduces taxes by almost $900 billion and reduces federal spending by $1.2 trillion over the next decade. This reduces deficit spending by $300 billion over the next 10 years.

Anonymous TLM March 21, 2017 1:20 PM  

Not sure what DJT is up to here. Yes, symbolically it ends Obamacare, but apparently isn't much better. In a private business situation Trump would never let a loser like Ryan run point for him. Would hope this is some long game to get Ryan to lose his leadership position. Trump made it clear he wants insurance available across state lines and to my knowledge this new bill keeps the same limited choices in place, odd since that seems like an easy fix.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 1:21 PM  

The bill keeps the worst aspects of Obamacare and does almost nothing to dismantle it's apparatus. It even keeps a form of a penalty if you don't get insurance.

We need a repeal. Then we can work on the individual needs of people who can't afford insurance.

Anonymous fop March 21, 2017 1:22 PM  

If Paul Ryan is for it I'm against it. He looks like a pedo.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd March 21, 2017 1:23 PM  

Trump needs to repeal first, replace second (if ever). Allowing the GOP cucks to repeal and replace is likely to be Trump's version of Reagan's amnesty deal.

The bill that Trump is stumping for is neither repeal nor replace, and I expect that it's going to put Trump's name on a disaster.

Blogger Orville March 21, 2017 1:23 PM  

I was watching a short Jeff Walker video this morning on "the best way to fail". It was all about perfectionism. Entrepreneurs, businesses, and yes, even politicians fail when trying to roll out the "perfect" product. It never comes, or the market has passed you by, once you finally get your "perfect" product out. Walker says, "perfectionism is just another form of procrastination".

Congress will never submit or pass a "perfect" bill. It's far more important that the GE establish his authority over Congress than the specifics of what is in the Obamacare repeal bill.

Best Tools For Men

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 1:29 PM  

The bill that Trump is stumping for is neither repeal nor replace, and I expect that it's going to put Trump's name on a disaster.

Breitbart is completely against this bill.

Blogger dc.sunsets March 21, 2017 1:30 PM  

All the talk about 4D chess will be made clear once the next recession is in play and there's an election (mid-term or 2020.)

If Trump successfully shifts the focal point of rage onto Congress and the Twenty-Term Incumbent Class (I jest), then I will be truly in awe of the revealed strategy.

The USA has had several "revolutions" since 1776. Trump's political force may be another, love it or hate it.

Personally, I'd love to see incumbency in congress become a guaranteed primary loser.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 1:31 PM  

Congress will never submit or pass a "perfect" bill. It's far more important that the GE establish his authority over Congress than the specifics of what is in the Obamacare repeal bill.

There's a vast gulf between a perfect bill and a garbage bill.

Blogger Salt March 21, 2017 1:34 PM  

Trump even went so far as to give a tacit nod to Rand Paul at his rally. One thing must be done. Obamacare must be repealed. No keeping anything about it.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 1:35 PM  

Obamacare must be repealed. No keeping anything about it.

This bill keeps most of Obamacare except the mandate and the income adjusted subsidies.

Blogger tz March 21, 2017 1:36 PM  

The problem with multiple phases is the last phase never happens.

Simpson-Mizzoli gave amnesty and was supposed to close the border.
The 1986 tax increase was supposed to be matched with spending cuts.

Ryan passed the Obamanibus funding PP, then had a fake vote later defunding it knowing Obama would veto it.

So a few tweaks that keep most of the bad parts of Obamacare, then a few HHS declarations. Then the phase 3 doesn't pass the Senate.

If ONLY phase 1 gets through, the Republicans and now Trump will own it, even if they can't get phase 3 through and the courts shut down phase 2.

While I trust Trump, I've seen this game played before.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 1:40 PM  

> The problem with multiple phases is the last phase never happens.

To be fair, Trump has seen this played out several times in his life. He may have a plan to deal with it. But that's not the way to bet.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd March 21, 2017 1:40 PM  

Josh (the gayest thing here) wrote:Breitbart is completely against this bill.

Maybe it's not as bad as I thought?

dc.sunsets wrote:If Trump successfully shifts the focal point of rage onto Congress and the Twenty-Term Incumbent Class (I jest), then I will be truly in awe of the revealed strategy.


If Trump can make this Ryan-care or Congress-care, all will be swell. He has certainly proven himself a grand strategist.

We desperately need to get the Federal government out of health insurance (0bammy-care is a health insurance law, not a health care law). If it takes a few more years to do it and make it stick, that's OK.

Denninger keeps on telling us that we are on course for a financial disaster, that we don't have time to fool around, and he seems to be 100% correct. Still, our nation can recover from a mere financial disaster. A financial disaster with an overt default by Uncle Sam would be a great deal if it shrunk government and soured Americans on socialism for a few generations.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 1:41 PM  

> This bill keeps most of Obamacare except the mandate...

It still imposes a penalty if you ever drop insurance, so it has its own version of a mandate.

Blogger tz March 21, 2017 1:42 PM  

@10 No one is asking for "perfection", but the promise was to REPEAL Obamacare, not tweak it a bit leaving most of it in place and hope to do more later. That's not asking for perfection, it's asking to not have another half done surrender.

Rand Paul's bill repeals it and I don't think it is perfect but it keeps the promise.

Blogger Nick S March 21, 2017 1:43 PM  

There are a limited number of possibilities here.

Maybe Trump has been hornswoggled. There are a range of implications stemming from that conclusion; none of them good.

Maybe Trump was being disingenuous on the campaign trail. There are another range of implications stemming from that conclusion as well; none of those are good either.

Maybe Trump is just trying to light a fire under the asses of congress to make the changes that need to be made and get 'er done. I like the range of implications stemming from this latter conclusion.

Time will tell, but I'm not ready to concede that Trump has been compromised by the siren song of the swamp yet.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd March 21, 2017 1:44 PM  

tz wrote:The problem with multiple phases is the last phase never happens.
...
If ONLY phase 1 gets through, the Republicans and now Trump will own it, even if they can't get phase 3 through and the courts shut down phase 2.


Hence my first comment.

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Allowing the GOP cucks to repeal and replace is likely to be Trump's version of Reagan's amnesty deal.

We elected Trump, and now we're stuck with him. We could be stuck with a lot worse, and he may yet come through. He's really done astonishingly wel so far, after all.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 1:45 PM  

> That's not asking for perfection, it's asking to not have another half done surrender.

Exactly. Repeal it. Then fix the resulting problems later. You might even get the democrats to cooperate on fixing the problems.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus March 21, 2017 1:48 PM  

Someone needs to tell Trump that we need more wall and deportations, and less PaulRyanCare and theatrics.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 1:48 PM  

Has anyone here been watching Hannity? The bill is only the first stage. Stage 2 and Stage 3 are where all the good stuff comes in. This is what they could get through the door for budget reconciliation without triggering a filibuster.

It's not any of the good stuff, just a fundamental gutting of the tax portion of Obamacare. Yes, it looks like crap, because this is only the first stroke of a Par 3 hole.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 1:48 PM  

Rand Paul's bill repeals it and I don't think it is perfect but it keeps the promise.

RandCare is significantly better than RyanCare

Anonymous Jeff March 21, 2017 1:50 PM  

Forget healthcare. The God Emperor just signed a NASA act.

Make NASA Great Again!

Anonymous Grayman March 21, 2017 1:53 PM  

https://medium.com/emergent-culture/and-fear-no-darkness-7079dc86d5f4#.2vz74wp1h

TLDR: are Trump and Banon approaching this from a 4th turning perspective, i.e if so MAGA means something very different than going back to Norman Rockwell.

An intetesting article even if I don't agree with his conclusions. The population bottleneck wouldn't be surprising.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 1:53 PM  

Has anyone here been watching Hannity?

Of course not.

The bill is only the first stage. Stage 2 and Stage 3 are where all the good stuff comes in.

As has been mentioned upthread, stage 2 and 3 never happen. Look at any amnesty bill for example.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 1:54 PM  

> This is what they could get through the door for budget reconciliation without triggering a filibuster.

So how many times do you have to be lied to by the Cucks before you stop believing them?

> Yes, it looks like crap, because this is only the first stroke of a Par 3 hole.

And when the round is called due to lightening and you're stuck with the first stroke? What then?

Repeal it. Eliminate the filibuster if you have to. Ram the repeal through by any means necessary.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 1:54 PM  

"RandCare is significantly better than RyanCare"

RandCare won't pass because it will require a 60 vote majority and the democrats have one thing going for them, group think. They won't vote for it no matter how good it is. You need to learn from Vox and look at the larger strategy instead of the individual moves. It's not about losing nobly, it's about winning.

Blogger Phil Mann March 21, 2017 1:54 PM  

What's in the bill, or whether it is better or worse than the existing plan, isn't as important as Trump's line, "I honestly think many of you will lose your seats in 2018."

That is a not so thinly veiled message that he is keeping track of who is with him and who isn't. I've been expecting this from him and so far am not disappointed. The cucks would be wise to get in line.

Blogger Knight Of the Realm March 21, 2017 1:55 PM  

The only error that I see GE has made is letting cuckryan provide the bill; unless his plan is to dump the whole pile of crap in Ryan's lap when it tanks. (which would be awesome) however I am not the one up there having to deal with the demos and the neocons. Long Live the Emperor!

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 1:55 PM  

> RandCare won't pass because it will require a 60 vote majority

Then eliminate the filibuster. It's what the Dem's would do.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 1:55 PM  

There aren't the votes to repeal it in the Senate. Hell, there aren't even the votes in the Senate to eliminate the filibuster via nuclear option and just go straight majority vote in the Senate. Too many traitors in the GOPe still invested.

Repeal can't and won't happen, yet. That way lies the principled stand and defeat. The conservatives like it, 'cause they are comfortable with losing that way.

Obamacare was the poison pill, and the Demons did a good job getting it passed. Left alone, it detonates the country, the gov't, Trump, and you. A failed repeal does the same thing, and costs populists seats, preventing it from being tried later. A moving target sucks, but at least we're moving forward, and we live to fight another day.

Keep fighting, keep kicking, keep dragging the evil bastards down to hell. Take what successes we can, when we can, and keep advancing. Or, lose, lose it all, and burn in the fires with your principles.

No matter what the outcome of Ryancare, it saves money, it moves the ball forward, and Trump isn't done fighting yet.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 1:56 PM  

The cucks would be wise to get in line.

The cucks are in line supporting this bill.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 1:56 PM  

"So how many times do you have to be lied to by the Cucks before you stop believing them?"

Trump sees the promise in this. He hasn't let me down yet. I'd take his opinion before yours any day of the week.

Anonymous Scintan March 21, 2017 1:56 PM  

It's a disastrous bill. It should never have seen the light of day. Passing this piece of shit would be a huge mistake. But these are Republicans we're talking about, so I expect they'll use the full fist on the American public.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 1:57 PM  


Ann Coulter‏ @AnnCoulter

OTOH, Trump numbers dropping is significant. Trump got elected for wall, deportations & trade. Instead he's doing tax cuts & Obamacare Lite.

Anonymous gxg March 21, 2017 1:58 PM  

I support Trump and hope he's got a handle on this, but I can't understand why he throwing his support behind this stinker. Thanks to Obamacare, which pushed our monthly premiums up to nearly $1,800, we dropped Blue Cross last year and opted for Medi-Share, a Christian Medical Sharing program. (Our monthly payment is now under $600/month.)

Medi-Share sent me an email last Friday, begging me to call our congressman and ask him to oppose this version of the bill, using the following statement:

We have been informed that the healthcare reform bill circulating in the House of Representatives does not protect our healthcare sharing ministry. We urge you to support amending the final bill to protect our healthcare options...

I agree with others who have posted above. (1) Parts 2 & 3 are unlikely to come to fruition, much like border security promises were broken after amnesty, and (2) This version of the bill will only ensure that Republicans get the blame when the death spiral completes its descent.

And yes, I did call my congressman, who's a member of the Freedom Caucus. I thanked him for opposing RyanCare, asked him to ensure that Christian based health sharing programs are protected. I finished by saying that I support Trump, but do not support this bill at all.

Anonymous Scintan March 21, 2017 1:58 PM  

Some Guy wrote:"So how many times do you have to be lied to by the Cucks before you stop believing them?"

Trump sees the promise in this. He hasn't let me down yet. I'd take his opinion before yours any day of the week.



Beyond noting the obvious (Obamacare sucks), which everyone already knew, Trump's been wrong on health care from day one.

Anonymous WeAreTheWest March 21, 2017 1:59 PM  

That ship has sunk.

This rhetoric goes to 11.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus March 21, 2017 1:59 PM  

I support Trump and hope he's got a handle on this, but I can't understand why he throwing his support behind this stinker.

I suspect he's making a deal with congressional GOPers to support this bill so that they'll go along with some of his agenda. Not sure if it would be wise to trust Ryan, et al. if this is the case.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 2:00 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> RandCare won't pass because it will require a 60 vote majority

Then eliminate the filibuster. It's what the Dem's would do.


Can't. There are at least 4 votes in the Senate on the GOP side that won't vote for the nuclear option. It only takes 51 votes, but that's how many we have total. No Dem will vote for the nuclear option.

Yes, the "conservatives" who have conserved nothing are still betraying you, still fighting against Trump. Get over it, move on. We'll do something about it, when we can. For right now, those are the cards we have. We're going to win this hand, and redeal.

Anonymous EH March 21, 2017 2:01 PM  

The bill is crap. It has less than no advantages. Trump is making an error in playing the "vote for it or risk losing your seats" card on this. It's Ryan's ugly baby, and it could well take him down.

Either repeal the whole thing or go single-payer. Either way, preempt state insurance regulation and professional licensure, end artificial shortage of internships and residencies, have one billing format, provider-published prices for everything, no discounts to insurers (paying cash can cost 3x as much as insurance actually pays now), have loser-pays independent 3rd party MD review of medical decisions by insurers, eliminate insurer immunity to policyholder suits, and make sure those who didn't pay get cheap bare-bones service.

Blogger Robert Divinity March 21, 2017 2:03 PM  

In a private business situation Trump would never let a loser like Ryan run point for him. Would hope this is some long game to get Ryan to lose his leadership position.

The most disgusting cuck communications outlets, Fox News and National Review, are terrified this will damage Ryan. Its likely failure in the Senate does present congressional cucks with an excuse to savage and sack the execrable Ryan.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 2:03 PM  

> Hell, there aren't even the votes in the Senate to eliminate the filibuster via nuclear option and just go straight majority vote in the Senate.

Then threaten them, not people trying to keep their promises to repeal Obamacare.

> ...but at least we're moving forward...

No, we're not. Ryancare is as bad or worse.

> Trump sees the promise in this.

That's the only thing that gives me any hope, but it's not enough to allow me to trust Ryan.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 2:04 PM  

The lack of strategic sight on this is amazing. All or nothing. Do you all honestly believe this is the first deal that Trump has worked on? Do you think that he is putting his weight behind this for no reason? Do you honestly believe that he has no plan?

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd March 21, 2017 2:05 PM  

James Dixon wrote:So how many times do you have to be lied to by the Cucks before you stop believing them?

How many times does President Trump have to be lied to by the Cucks before the people stop electing Cucks?

It's not hard to imagine that Trump is giving the Cucks and NeoCons scope to piss off enough voters to get a better Congress in 2018. Pray that it works for us.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 2:06 PM  

> Can't. There are at least 4 votes in the Senate on the GOP side that won't vote for the nuclear option.

Again, target them with the threats, not the people trying to keep their promises.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 2:07 PM  

> Do you honestly believe that he has no plan?

I'm certain he has a plan. I don't think for a second a plan relying on the cucks in Congress will work.

Blogger Phil Mann March 21, 2017 2:10 PM  

I'm certain he has a plan. I don't think for a second a plan relying on the cucks in Congress will work.

He's not relying on them. He's setting the stage for removing them. (I hope)

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 2:12 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> Hell, there aren't even the votes in the Senate to eliminate the filibuster via nuclear option and just go straight majority vote in the Senate.

Then threaten them, not people trying to keep their promises to repeal Obamacare.

> ...but at least we're moving forward...

No, we're not. Ryancare is as bad or worse.

> Trump sees the promise in this.

That's the only thing that gives me any hope, but it's not enough to allow me to trust Ryan.



Threaten the GOP traitors all you want. It isn't going to do anything, and it may get the Dems the votes they need to impeach the God-Emperor. Last recourse there is the ammo box, after the soap box, and the ballot box. You ready for that?

Ryancare isn't worse. It is terrible, but it isn't worse than Obamacare. Be accurate, be intelligent. Use hyperbole even. But at least be honest.

If Trump can make phase 2 work (and yeah, that's gonna mean more court battles, same as the immigration stuff) we could probably even squeak by for a few years with just phase 1 and 2. But phase 1 then allows us to put the pressure on the GOP for the taxes.

It is all about leverage, and how it is applied. The more dominoes fall, the more leverage Trump has, and the more he can put the GOP traitors in the vice and make them sing.

Blogger Keith March 21, 2017 2:13 PM  

Trump has all the power to enforce existing Antitrust law against the Healthcare industry but I've seen no talk of him willing to do so. He has to know the problem, and he has to know he has the power.

If he wants a nation of law and order perhaps antitrust should be included.

Anonymous gxg March 21, 2017 2:14 PM  

Some Guy wrote: Do you all honestly believe this is the first deal that Trump has worked on? Do you think that he is putting his weight behind this for no reason? Do you honestly believe that he has no plan?

When I'm feeling optimistic, I think that maybe his "plan" is to throw his public support behind it, knowing it will never pass.

The result? Ryan looks like a fool, and we can rebuild from scratch, or let Obamacare implode right on schedule.

All this to say, maybe part of his plan is to give Ryan enough rope to hang himself, along with the other cucks in congress.

Either way, this bill is a disaster.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT March 21, 2017 2:15 PM  

I don't know what to say on this one because Ryancare is just as bad, if not worse, than Obamacare. There is no excuse for it.

Karl Denninger has been loud and clear on this with the numbers to back it up: we either fix U.S. healthcare, in large part by enforcing existing laws against price collusion and discrimination, or we kiss it all goodbye. Because the Federal government, state governments, and pension plans cannot survive the insane growth in medical spending. You think 2007 was bad? Think again. And think in terms of the Federal government becoming insolvent Soviet Union style.

Then again...maybe that last part is the silver lining.

Blogger weka March 21, 2017 2:20 PM  

@56. The correct thing to do is abolish Obamacare and leave the issue to the states.

The UK experience shows that 60M is too big for a socialized system: Kaiser suggests about 4M allows for funding the rare and expensive disorders.

Just Kill Obamacare. Life will go on.

Blogger GAHCindy March 21, 2017 2:20 PM  

It looks like a mess to me, but I'm inclined to trust the president. I have not always known what he was doing, but he usually turns out to have known EXACTLY what he was doing.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 2:21 PM  

> How many times does President Trump have to be lied to by the Cucks before the people stop electing Cucks?

What makes you think I had anything to do with their election?

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 2:22 PM  

Keith wrote:Trump has all the power to enforce existing Antitrust law against the Healthcare industry but I've seen no talk of him willing to do so. He has to know the problem, and he has to know he has the power.

If he wants a nation of law and order perhaps antitrust should be included.


It should be, but I don't know that Trump has the ability to do so yet. I read Karl too, but I think there is a enough wiggle room in the existing laws that have been passed that the medical monopolies can slip through. It isn't just an enforcement "will" problem, it is also an enforcement "legal" problem.

One Deplorable DT wrote:I don't know what to say on this one because Ryancare is just as bad, if not worse, than Obamacare. There is no excuse for it.

Karl Denninger has been loud and clear on this with the numbers to back it up: we either fix U.S. healthcare, in large part by enforcing existing laws against price collusion and discrimination, or we kiss it all goodbye. Because the Federal government, state governments, and pension plans cannot survive the insane growth in medical spending. You think 2007 was bad? Think again. And think in terms of the Federal government becoming insolvent Soviet Union style.

Then again...maybe that last part is the silver lining.


Again, Ryancare isn't worse. It is terrible, but it isn't worse, and it is a step in the right direction. It is a long way from being good, but feel free to die with your principles if you so desire.

Karl isn't wrong, but he's a terrible messenger, and he generally does a disservice to the 'cause with his approach and attitude.

Besides, you think Trump can't read a budget or a ledger? How long do you think it will take him to figure out what Karl has said, if Trump doesn't already know it? It'll be in his first term, if not by the end of his second budget, at the very latest. It'll come around.

The entire swamp has to be drained before the medical monopolies are going to be fixed. We'll get there, but only by actually draining the swamp. Pontificating from on-high to the corrupt heathens ain't gonna cut it.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 2:24 PM  

> You ready for that?

I've been ready for that since the 1970's.

> ...but it isn't worse than Obamacare

In many ways it is. See the note about Medishare above.

Blogger Jack Ward March 21, 2017 2:24 PM  

Not read comments yet. I have no love for this first step. But, supposedly, step one of three and say bye bye to obama care by summers end. I will reserve judgement and trust Trump to get it right. Until, and if, he doesn't.

Anonymous Rollory March 21, 2017 2:28 PM  

Wrong. This is a poison pill like none other. It will destroy the Republicans and it will destroy Trump, specifically because he's making a point of pushing it through and he will therefore own the consequences.

There are two things he could and should do in order to stop pretending and start acting. The first is a simple "the ACA is hereby repealed". The second is enforcing antitrust law against the medical industry. Nothing else is required. Ryancare does neither.

The steps 2 and 3 I've seen referred to, I'll believe those when I see them. Not before.

Blogger beerme March 21, 2017 2:30 PM  

If the only thing that Ryancare accomplishes is that the cucks can't pretend to repeal Obamacare for 8 years, it will be a success.

Anonymous Pony1 March 21, 2017 2:31 PM  

Obamacare was designed to fail and force us into a single payer plan, and that's what I am hearing from the Dems. They know it's failure and want a single payer plan.

Part of me wants to just let this plan fail - and not replace it at all but all we will hear is how DJT took coverage away from millions of Americans. So maybe it is best to replace it in one swoop but I wouldn't trust anything Ryan is pushing. I would like to seem them go back to the table and rework it w/ Rand, he is open to negotiate and we know the President is as well.

I don't know why Trump is pushing for Ryancare but he usually has an ace up his sleeve... or at least I hope he does.

Blogger JACIII March 21, 2017 2:32 PM  

Umwad your panties ladies. The Senate will pass something completely different. And something completely different will come out of confere.

Anonymous kfg March 21, 2017 2:33 PM  

" . . .feel free to die with your principles if you so desire."

If "Health Care" doesn't kill me first.

Health Care has to die. Medicine needs to be restored.

Blogger Buybuydandavis March 21, 2017 2:33 PM  

I don't know why this is so hard for some Republicans to understand.

1) You pass what you can through the reconciliation process, which only requires a 50 vote majority in the Senate.

2) With those changes in place, Trump and the federal apparatchiks make the changes they can on the regulatory side.

3) With the facts on the ground changed, now you go back and try to get a better bill through the Senate with some Democratic support.

No Democratic will vote to change Obamacare in any way. Repubs have to eviscerate it first through reconciliation and regulatory changes.

Repubs who want to repeal and replace in one move are either retarded or simply too committed to being the Washington Generals. Dems will just block it.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 21, 2017 2:35 PM  

The bill is only the first stage. Stage 2 and Stage 3 are where all the good stuff comes in.

As has been mentioned upthread, stage 2 and 3 never happen. Look at any amnesty bill for example.


@29 Josh
Oh FFS. Stage 2 at least is squarely under Trump's and Dr. Price's purview. Or are you still a NeverTrumper who thinks Trump isn't actually trying to help the country?

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 2:35 PM  

> The Senate will pass something completely different

That's pretty much guaranteed, yes. Paul, Lee, and Cruz are all saying they won't support it.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 21, 2017 2:36 PM  

Obamacare was designed to fail and force us into a single payer plan, and that's what I am hearing from the Dems. They know it's failure and want a single payer plan.

@65 Pony1
Yeah, a single-payer plan, otherwise known as CommieCare. We know all about that.

Anonymous gxg March 21, 2017 2:36 PM  

In many ways it is (worse). See the note about Medishare above.

Right. Because right now many Christians can avoid Obamacare and its penalties. Sure, it's a hassle to apply (because you must go through the old system of providing medical history, etc.).

But once accepted, Christians have a way to protect their family's health and finances without violating their Christian faith (such as by being forced to pay for the morning-after pill). As a bonus, members can save over $10,000 a year, plus have a built-in system for donating extra to support fellow Christians in financial distress due to medical emergencies.

This bill is just one more way to deprive Christians of their religious-freedom and money. And I'm finding it hard to believe that's an accident.

Anonymous patrick kelly March 21, 2017 2:37 PM  

"CBO announced that the repeal bill reduces taxes by almost $900 billion and reduces federal spending by $1.2 trillion over the next decade. This reduces deficit spending by $300 billion over the next 10 years."

HTF is that worse than ObamaCare?

Blogger VFM #7634 March 21, 2017 2:37 PM  


Repubs who want to repeal and replace in one move are either retarded or simply too committed to being the Washington Generals. Dems will just block it.


@68 Buybuydandavis
But but but Obamacare 2.0!!!

Blogger VFM #7634 March 21, 2017 2:38 PM  

HTF is that worse than ObamaCare?

@73 Patrick Kelly
Because 20 million more people will be "uninsured" (i.e., no longer being forced into crappy government-run insurance with astronomical deductibles)

Anonymous TheSmokingMan#3424 March 21, 2017 2:41 PM  

Is it possible that the bill is the first step in a plan we don't know about yet? Is President Trump eating the elephant 1 bite at a time? He keeps proving to us that he is 3 steps ahead of everyone's reactions.

Ave Imperator

Anonymous gxg March 21, 2017 2:46 PM  

Maybe the cucks have a plan, too. Maybe that plan is to secure Trump's support for phase 1, get it passed, and eliminate Trump (whether through impeachment or through the JFK route) before phases 2 & 3 can be enacted.

I still trust Trump, but these are treacherous times, and the republican establishment is worse than useless.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 2:46 PM  

Oh FFS. Stage 2 at least is squarely under Trump's and Dr. Price's purview.

Then why isn't that stage 1?

Blogger Keyser Soze March 21, 2017 2:48 PM  

I've read all these comments. A whole lotta cucking going on here. Trump is my horse, I helped elect him. He's your horse. Stay on him and don't lose faith.
Think about how smart and how long he's been preparing for office. In 2005, Pays $38M on $156M when he had numerous loop holes and tax dodges to use. Would any of you cucking have the foresight and discipline to make that tax payment??? So go with him. Talk positive until a fully evident betrayal is made, if ever.

Cucks- I hate'm

Blogger bosscauser March 21, 2017 2:49 PM  

It goes to the Senate. House members off the hook of Trump retaliation.
This bill DOA as written.

#PresidentTrump2020

Anonymous Roundtine March 21, 2017 2:50 PM  

Is it possible that the bill is the first step in a plan we don't know about yet?

Yes. If the Republicans win enough Senate seats in 2018, they can do whatever they want. Even if this bill is turd, nobody will realize it by election day 2018. It'll be marginally better than the ACA, and the people who will lose coverage and don't want to lose coverage (as opposed to millions of Millennials and Gen X who will gladly forego crappy insurance) were never going to vote Republican anyway.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 2:51 PM  

Via Instapundit, a NYT article on how Trump can fix health care: http://archive.is/ctEpb

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 2:51 PM  

It'll be marginally better than the ACA, and the people who will lose coverage and don't want to lose coverage (as opposed to millions of Millennials and Gen X who will gladly forego crappy insurance) were never going to vote Republican anyway.

Working class whites ages 50-64 don't vote Republican?

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 2:52 PM  

Think about how smart and how long he's been preparing for office. In 2005, Pays $38M on $156M when he had numerous loop holes and tax dodges to use. Would any of you cucking have the foresight and discipline to make that tax payment???

That is a truly bizarre explanation

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 2:53 PM  

gxg wrote:In many ways it is (worse). See the note about Medishare above.

Right. Because right now many Christians can avoid Obamacare and its penalties. Sure, it's a hassle to apply (because you must go through the old system of providing medical history, etc.).

But once accepted, Christians have a way to protect their family's health and finances without violating their Christian faith (such as by being forced to pay for the morning-after pill). As a bonus, members can save over $10,000 a year, plus have a built-in system for donating extra to support fellow Christians in financial distress due to medical emergencies.

This bill is just one more way to deprive Christians of their religious-freedom and money. And I'm finding it hard to believe that's an accident.


I can't speak about Medi-Share. I rejected them as an option when I lost my health insurance due to Obamacare. However, I know for a fact that Christian Healthcare Ministries (https://www.chministries.org/) which is similar to and an alternative to Medi-Share, is NOT adversely affected by the Ryancare bill.

Medi-Share seems to have their own issues, but as a general rule, Christian Healthshares are not outlawed or removed as options from the new bill. There are groups trying to get HSA account access for those of us that are using a health share, which would be fantastic (and leaps and bounds ahead of any options we've had in this country in the last 30 years).

Anonymous Roundtine March 21, 2017 2:53 PM  

A whole lotta cucking going on here.

There's a shit bill in the House, and shithead conservatives opposed to it who are autistic on the deficit and willing to go down to flaming defeat to save $100 billion in fantasy deficits 10 years out. Trump is exactly right on the electoral politics angle, but nobody is proposing serious healthcare reform. The government doesn't function yet because the swamp is still fully staffed.

Anonymous Roundtine March 21, 2017 2:54 PM  

Working class whites ages 50-64 don't vote Republican?

The ones who want free healthcare vote for Bernie.

OpenID aew51183 March 21, 2017 2:54 PM  

To anyone whining about the RyanCare bill:

Sundance over at thelastrefuge, who has been prescient regarding DC strategy for years, is also behind Ryan's bill and has a series of articles removing the mask from all of this..

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/09/paul-ryan-outlines-why-it-takes-three-steps-for-obamacare-repeal-and-replacement/
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/07/why-obamacare-cannot-simply-be-repealed/

This is why Trump is behind this.

He must first wade into the swamp before he can find the plughole.

Blogger Elocutioner March 21, 2017 2:56 PM  

This time may be different because this time we have someone who in charge who isn't just putting a pageant for the rubes. If I had a dime for every time I heard "Trump can't do X" I'd be Trump.

There's a reason Trump met directly and conspicuously with the Wall Street and Main Street CEOs and the heads of the unions without Donohue or Trumka present - he's cutting the legs out from the owners of the uniparty and now he's telling the actors to their faces who the boss is. Trump knows precisely who and what Paul Ryan is. The only question now is whether Ryan remains loyal to the CoC and gets replaced or he gets in line. The swamp wasn't built in a day. Be patient.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 2:57 PM  

> If the Republicans win enough Senate seats in 2018, they can do whatever they want.

This bill won't win them any seats. It may lose them some. But I'll wait to see what comes out of reconciliation before I make any decisions as to how I'm going to vote.

Blogger JWM in SD March 21, 2017 2:58 PM  

"Karl isn't wrong, but he's a terrible messenger, and he generally does a disservice to the 'cause with his approach and attitude."

Yes, I've had my issues with him in past year or so too.

"Besides, you think Trump can't read a budget or a ledger? How long do you think it will take him to figure out what Karl has said, if Trump doesn't already know it? It'll be in his first term, if not by the end of his second budget, at the very latest. It'll come around."

My guess is Trump knows already but I admit that the only reason I can see for him to support it is to get Ryan out of office already. Need to get Nehlen in...he's a better fit with Trump anyway.

"The entire swamp has to be drained before the medical monopolies are going to be fixed. We'll get there, but only by actually draining the swamp. Pontificating from on-high to the corrupt heathens ain't gonna cut it."

That's been my biggest beef with Karl. I don't disagree with him about healthcare but it's moot if they manage to remove Trump from office somehow. They are not going to stop...ever. It's either drain the swamp or get impeached / JFK treatment. Yes, it's a binary set.

Anonymous Roundtine March 21, 2017 2:59 PM  

To anyone whining about the RyanCare bill

Yes, the steps are needed. What's not needed is allowing insurance companies to collect the mandate (30% surcharge if you have a gap in coverage) instead of the federal government.

Blogger YIH March 21, 2017 3:00 PM  

tz wrote:The problem with multiple phases is the last phase never happens.

Simpson-Mizzoli gave amnesty and was supposed to close the border.

The 1986 tax increase was supposed to be matched with spending cuts.

Ryan passed the Obamanibus funding PP, then had a fake vote later defunding it knowing Obama would veto it.

So a few tweaks that keep most of the bad parts of Obamacare, then a few HHS declarations. Then the phase 3 doesn't pass the Senate.

If ONLY phase 1 gets through, the Republicans and now Trump will own it, even if they can't get phase 3 through and the courts shut down phase 2.

While I trust Trump, I've seen this game played before.

Something else occurred back then that set the stage for this cluster: https://infogalactic.com/info/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act
Short version, 50 Cent shows up at an ER looking like Africa's version of Swiss cheese, he gets admitted and fully treated, no and's, if's or but's. Any kind of insurance? On a gangbanger? Surely you jest. Pay? 50 hasn't cut his first rap CD yet, he ain't got no money.
So who pays? The hospital writes it off taxes and shifts the costs on to those who can pay, via insurance or cash.
That was the real purpose of ''0bamacare'', a 'bailout' for hospital ERs. It was to try to 'shuffle the deck' on who pays for what while presenting the illusion that 'everyone is insured'. And that's what ''Ryancare'' is trying to preserve but without the tax penalties and with the Medicaid subsidies curtailed.
What that likely means is things won't be any better and when the SHTF on it, it'll be anywhere from next year to 3 years from now - just in time for Trump to be covered in $#!+ from it.
Ryan's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and hoping he can get a lifeboat seat while the Captain goes down with the ship.

Anonymous Roundtine March 21, 2017 3:01 PM  

This bill won't win them any seats.

They will lose Republican and Independent votes if they do nothing. After 6 years of saying they needed control to repeal Obamacare, they have no more excuses.

Anonymous Andrew E. March 21, 2017 3:02 PM  

Then why isn't that stage 1?

Stage 1 is to repeal the taxes and subsidies of Obamacare, through reconciliation (only 50 Senate votes) so that Trump has a baseline budget from which to begin enacting his planned budget and tax reforms. That needs to happen ASAP if Trump is get his budget and tax reforms this year. That's why HHS de-reg is #2 instead of #1.

I, personally, would like to see more deportations though and less talk about health care.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 3:02 PM  

The ones who want free healthcare vote for Bernie.

Trump won 62% of whites 45-64.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:03 PM  

> They will lose Republican and Independent votes if they do nothing. After 6 years of saying they needed control to repeal Obamacare, they have no more excuses.

Then why aren't they repealing it?

Anonymous 12345 March 21, 2017 3:06 PM  

I don't think many outside of politics, including this bog , understand that the result of passing this bill is losing the GOP majority. Talk about a stupid move based only on the principle that Trump must be supported.

To put it another way, Trump is getting screwed by Ryan...again.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 3:07 PM  

JWM in SD wrote:"Karl isn't wrong, but he's a terrible messenger, and he generally does a disservice to the 'cause with his approach and attitude."

Yes, I've had my issues with him in past year or so too.

My guess is Trump knows already but I admit that the only reason I can see for him to support it is to get Ryan out of office already. Need to get Nehlen in...he's a better fit with Trump anyway.

That's been my biggest beef with Karl. I don't disagree with him about healthcare but it's moot if they manage to remove Trump from office somehow. They are not going to stop...ever. It's either drain the swamp or get impeached / JFK treatment. Yes, it's a binary set.


I agree about Nehlen.

As far as Karl goes, he's a mercenary, and he's in it for Karl. He'll happily help the rest of the country as long as it also helps him, but he won't help anyone else if it doesn't help him.

He did a lot of the original analysis on the birther thing back in 2011 or so, that Sheriff Joe's cold posse eventually came out with. He took it all down in a fit of pique when he semi-retired years ago and blamed his readers for not being strong enough in forcing change. I emailed him and asked if I could have a copy that he had up in public for years. He said no, and that he had no plans on making it publicly available again. It was his work, and he wasn't going to release it to the public anymore. The implication that I could have it if I was willing to pay for it was there.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 3:07 PM  

To all the retards saying some version of "why can't they just repeal?" Go do your homework. You showed up class and aren't ready for this quiz.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 21, 2017 3:10 PM  

96. Josh (the gayest thing here)
I wonder what the percentage is of white males in that age group, I bet it's higher than 62 %, and Southron white males even higher.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:10 PM  

OK. I've fulminated enough on this thread. To summarize: The R's promised to repeal Obamacare. They're not doing so. The proposed bill is at best only moderately better than Obamacare and may be worse in some ways. We've been promised it's only the first stage, but I've been hearing that my whole life and don't believe them.

Others disagree. All I know for certain is, if at the end of this term Obamacare isn't gone, I'm voting voting for whoever runs against my Congress Critters, even if they're Democrats.

As I said, there are only two things that give me hope. One, Trump says he has a plan. Two, this bill is DOA in the Senate. We'll see what happens.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 3:12 PM  


Stage 1 is to repeal the taxes and subsidies of Obamacare, through reconciliation (only 50 Senate votes) so that Trump has a baseline budget from which to begin enacting his planned budget and tax reforms. That needs to happen ASAP if Trump is get his budget and tax reforms this year. That's why HHS de-reg is #2 instead of #1.


Trump already submitted his budget outline

Blogger Gaiseric March 21, 2017 3:12 PM  

Of all the issues to finally tell his collegues to uncuck and fall in line on, he picks THIS one?

Sigh. That's disappointing.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:12 PM  

> To all the retards saying some version of "why can't they just repeal?" Go do your homework.

I've done my homework. We have the majority. It's the job of the Senate leadership to deliver the votes. There are lots of levers that can be pulled to do so. Do it and quit saying you can't.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 3:13 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> They will lose Republican and Independent votes if they do nothing. After 6 years of saying they needed control to repeal Obamacare, they have no more excuses.

Then why aren't they repealing it?

Stop cucking, you cuck. They aren't repealing it because they lied to you then, and are lying to you now. That's why they don't have the votes to repeal, or even use the nuclear option. They don't want it gone. They want their grift and the power it was giving them.

All your cucking is doing is giving them an excuse to hide behind, which they are claiming are actually their principles, and your principles, and they intend to "die" on that hill, because it is their safe place.

The GOPe keeps saying, "don't throw me into that briar patch," and we keep throwing them in, and it works out for them just like it does for Br'er Rabbit.

Stop cucking. Pull your head out and look around.

Blogger Nate March 21, 2017 3:14 PM  

"I have no doubt that the bill isn't as good as it should be. Who cares?"

I care.

A bill that leaves the exchanges intact is not a bill. This is not repealing obamacare. this is a minor tweak.

This is literally what Hillary would have done.

This is cucking.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 3:14 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> To all the retards saying some version of "why can't they just repeal?" Go do your homework.

I've done my homework. We have the majority. It's the job of the Senate leadership to deliver the votes. There are lots of levers that can be pulled to do so. Do it and quit saying you can't.

Name them, cuck. Name the levers. Show us Trump's leverage that he has over each and ever Senator with an R after their name. Come on, cuck. Back up your assertions. Put up or shut up.

Post proof, or retract.

Anonymous kfg March 21, 2017 3:16 PM  

"The ones who want free healthcare vote for Bernie.

Trump won 62% of whites 45-64."

Ergo . . .

Blogger Student in Blue March 21, 2017 3:16 PM  

@88. aew51183

Sundance is pretty legit. If he thinks there's a reason behind it, then there's a very good chance he's correct.

Anonymous Raw Cringe March 21, 2017 3:18 PM  

Wow, everyone has such hot opinions... Let me tell you all a story.

A story about HEALTHCARE.

Once, when I was very wee, I forgot that there was no school on one particular weekday holiday. I told my papa, "Oh no! I'm going to be late for school!" because I woke up later than normal.

Staring through groggy eyelids, he replied, "There's no school today, son, shaddap and eat your groats."

Well, I didn't believe my papa. I put on my clothes and snuck out of the house while he was taking a nap at the breakfast table. I knew I had to walk to school. I didn't know the way exactly, but I would do it somehow. I knew the first turn was left, and then probably left again, or maybe straight.

Around and around I walked, getting no where, because I wasn't allowed to cross the street by myself. I walked around the block two or three times before I realized what was happening! As it dawned on me that I was lost, all alone in the city, I started to cry. I cried a lot of snot because it was a pretty cold day.

While I was crying, the HEALTHCARE WEASEL found me. He gave me a balloon and asked me, "Are you lost, little boy?"

I said, "Yes! Waaaaah! I'm lost! Waaaaah!"

The HEALTHCARE WEASEL bent down and looked me in the eyes. "Would you like to take a ride on my HEALTHCARE TRUCK?" Then I saw the truck.

It had so many balloons! It was made of cake and frosting and donuts and, um, yogurt. I said, "Yay! What a truck! I wish I had a Hotwheels like this so I could eat it all up!"

The HEALTHCARE WEASEL laughed at my joke. He said, "Do you like it, little boy? Do you want to see the place where they make these trucks?"

My eyes widened. "What place do they make these trucks?"

"They make them on the HEALTHCARE FARM... I can take you there, if you wish with all your heart to go."

all right that is part 1, story will be continued if there is popular demand. vote in the comments do I go to the healthcare farm or just ask the weasel to take me home. I'm not sure what to do??? it's all so confusing

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club March 21, 2017 3:19 PM  

If the only thing that Ryancare accomplishes is that the cucks can't pretend to repeal Obamacare for 8 years, it will be a success.

Gotta agree with this. Obamacare has been a godsend for the cucks, who've clucked endlessly about repealing it with no intention ever to do so, because it's a good issue to rally their base, and, perhaps more importantly, their biggest donors are quite content with the ACA (when was the last time you heard any MNC moaning about Obamacare?).

I, personally, would like to see more deportations though and less talk about health care.

This just proves you are not old. Boomers (like my mom) are obsessed with their medical insurance. Nothing else is even close (mainly because those other things don't directly impact them).

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:20 PM  

> They aren't repealing it because they lied to you then, and are lying to you now.

Tell me something I don't know.

> Show us Trump's leverage that he has over each and ever Senator with an R after their name.

Just to start with, committee seats. Do you really think McCain would give up his Chairman of the Senate Committee on Armed Services to oppose a repeal? Then there's the campaign funding by the RNC. Those are just two of the levers available. There are probably lots more I'm not privy to.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 3:21 PM  

Leonidas, I know that the Persians are coming in absolutely overwhelming numbers. But I demand you face them in the open field with your 300 warriors. True Spartans do not use the terrain to their advantage!!! Fight in the open field like a real man.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 3:21 PM  

Wow, everyone has such hot opinions... Let me tell you all a story.

Cool story bro

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 3:23 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> They aren't repealing it because they lied to you then, and are lying to you now.

Tell me something I don't know.

> Show us Trump's leverage that he has over each and ever Senator with an R after their name.

Just to start with, committee seats. Do you really think McCain would give up his Chairman of the Senate Committee on Armed Services to oppose a repeal? Then there's the campaign funding by the RNC. Those are just two of the levers available. There are probably lots more I'm not privy to.


And you think it is Trump who hands out committee seats? Not the leadership of the GOP in the Senate, the very likes of which are (specifically) McConnell and (generally) McCain?

I think we've finally hit the issue. You don't understand how the Congress actually works, and can't understand what is realistic and what isn't.

Anonymous Andrew E. March 21, 2017 3:23 PM  

Trump already submitted his budget outline

That was just proposed spending on discretionary budget items. The full budget, with all spending and tax receipts included comes out in a few months. Trump wants all the Obamacare spending and tax receipts eliminated so that he knows what the budget looks like post-Obamacare (post-Obamacare from a budget perspective only, since that's all he can get passed) and begin his reforms. This is the logic.

OpenID aew51183 March 21, 2017 3:24 PM  

"I've done my homework. We have the majority. It's the job of the Senate leadership to deliver the votes."

60 votes required or nuclear option.

If nuclear option, next time Democrats get into office we get to have federally-mandated gun bans imposed upon texas with zero input from the right.

The 3 phase option will work.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/09/paul-ryan-outlines-why-it-takes-three-steps-for-obamacare-repeal-and-replacement/

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 3:24 PM  



I think we've finally hit the issue. You don't understand how the Congress actually works, and can't understand what is realistic and what isn't.


I thought talking about what is realistic is cucking.

Blogger Johnny March 21, 2017 3:25 PM  

Repealing Obamacare would be the right thing to do because it would force them to come up with something, but apparently they lack the courage for that. So this is what we get. A lateral move I am guessing or we would hear more about it.

What the hell, half a loaf is better than none and that is where we are headed with Trump.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:26 PM  

> And you think it is Trump who hands out committee seats?

What part of "It's the job of the Senate leadership to deliver the votes. There are lots of levers that can be pulled to do so." escaped you?

Blogger Elocutioner March 21, 2017 3:26 PM  

"Do it and quit saying you can't." Are these by any chance the same Congressmen who repeatedly voted for Ryan and McConnell to lead them? They're ALL worthless. They ALWAYS have been, which is why they were selected and groomed for higher office to begin with.

The only ways I see to forward our interests are to replace them during the primaries and replace their owner. Trump is in the process of removing the current owner. Replacing them with someone who doesn't give the least fuck about us or our country and who will always vote against our interests is not the answer. Replace the bastards only when it matters - the primaries.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 3:26 PM  

Like trump would never be president?

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:28 PM  

> If nuclear option, next time Democrats get into office we get to have federally-mandated gun bans imposed upon texas with zero input from the right.

When the Dem's get back in office that nuclear option will be exercised so fast you'll think you got hit by a high speed train.

OpenID aew51183 March 21, 2017 3:31 PM  

"When the Dem's get back in office that nuclear option will be exercised so fast you'll think you got hit by a high speed train."

I don't think so.

They're autistically screeching amongst themselves over the partial nuclear option that has allowed Trump's cabinet and is now allowing Gorsuch.

Being anti-American doesn't make the leftists in power any less calculating. They just had a painful lesson in enlightened self-interest.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 3:33 PM  

Until they hit that stacked Supreme Court. That great red wall of righteousness that it will be!

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:33 PM  

> Being anti-American doesn't make the leftists in power any less calculating.

Their calculation will be that if they can pass their legislation, they can rig the elections from then on. They almost succeeded this time.

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:34 PM  

> Until they hit that stacked Supreme Court. That great red wall of righteousness that it will be!

The Roberts lead Supreme Court? Unless Trump gets at least two appointees, I wouldn't count on it.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 3:35 PM  

And we pulled our trump card, let the man work!

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 3:35 PM  

Anyway, I've answered the questions I was asked. I've got to get some work done. I'm out of here for now.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 3:36 PM  

The Roberts lead Supreme Court? Unless Trump gets at least two appointees, I wouldn't count on it.

You don't watch Hannity? That's phase 2 and 3.

Anonymous gxg March 21, 2017 3:37 PM  

When the Dem's get back in office that nuclear option will be exercised so fast you'll think you got hit by a high speed train.

This. Guaranteed. Trying to hold ourselves to a higher standard is a huge mistake. Unfortunately, conservatives have been making this mistake for decades. As others have said, it's time to end the tradition of losing gracefully, because we refuse to stoop to their level.

Blogger 1337kestrel March 21, 2017 3:39 PM  

It's a shit bill, but I don't think we can know from our cheap seats if it was the best attainable. First, you have to consider that half the GOP is not on our side, and Trump isn't strongly against socialist healthcare. We have to compromise with them. Frankly the Democrats don't care what the bill says because they will spout the same propaganda regardless.

If you *do* think it's possible to get a better bill, then you have to admit that "theoretically" we can pass another bill with additional cuts next year. Is it likely, no, but getting full repeal may be equally unlikely.

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 3:39 PM  

Kennedy will drop soon

Blogger Some Guy March 21, 2017 3:40 PM  

Kennedy will drop soon.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 3:43 PM  

Wouldn't the real nuclear option be launching tactical nuclear strikes against senators that oppose repeal?

Anonymous patrick kelly March 21, 2017 3:48 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:HTF is that worse than ObamaCare?

@73 Patrick Kelly

Because 20 million more people will be "uninsured" (i.e., no longer being forced into crappy government-run insurance with astronomical deductibles)


Oh, well when you put it that way, oh noos, that's horribible. /s

Blogger Anchorman March 21, 2017 3:54 PM  

Disagree.

Kill this bill. First, there's no immediate need to pass it. Let Obamacare collapse under its own weight.

Next, craft a better bill and take your time. It was clear the DC GOP crew never had a viable bill/plan during the posturing with Obama.

Most importantly, focus on the platform planks that got you elected: Trade, the wall, immigration. These are executive actions that he can hammer without as much sausage-making.

Putting bad law into place will only make it impossible to fix later, because the electorate will have no patience or trust for the GOP to fix it.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 3:57 PM  

Most importantly, focus on the platform planks that got you elected: Trade, the wall, immigration. These are executive actions that he can hammer without as much sausage-making.

Plus tax cuts, infrastructure, and regulatory reform.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 3:59 PM  

James Dixon wrote:> And you think it is Trump who hands out committee seats?

What part of "It's the job of the Senate leadership to deliver the votes. There are lots of levers that can be pulled to do so." escaped you?


What part of the traitor GOPe do you not understand? McConnell is a globalist, and a NeverTrumper. If we had a senate leadership that weren't cucks, we would have some options.

You don't appear to understand the balance of power in D.C. either. Trump is trying to DRAIN the swamp, not become SwampLord. His allies are few and far between in the Senate. If we didn't have a bunch of converged GOP in the Senate, then yes, he could lean on the Senate leadership, and they would lean on their members, and we'd move forward. But if we had that, we wouldn't be in this position in the first place!

Trump does have some leverage. He's building more. Stop holding out for the skittle-shitting unicorn. There is absolutely no way to eliminate the filibuster nor pass a repeal bill at this point. There will be more opportunity in the future, as long as you don't cut Trump off at the knees with a bomb planted under his feet that you're just certain is going to bring in that unicorn.

Anonymous Rollory March 21, 2017 4:01 PM  

All right, having read the conservativetreehouse link, I retract my earlier statement. A simple repeal would indeed not pass the Senate. Given that, I don't know enough to judge the Ryancare bill.

I still want to see the medical price-fixing stopped.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 4:02 PM  

Josh (the gayest thing here) wrote:Most importantly, focus on the platform planks that got you elected: Trade, the wall, immigration. These are executive actions that he can hammer without as much sausage-making.

Plus tax cuts, infrastructure, and regulatory reform.


Have to deal with the elephant of Obamacare in the room before you can work on tax cuts, infrastructure, and regulatory reform.


I thought you people were supposed to be smart? Vox is UHIQ. What the hell is up with his low-IQ comment section?

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 4:05 PM  

Have to deal with the elephant of Obamacare in the room before you can work on tax cuts, infrastructure, and regulatory reform.

No you don't. You can work on multiple things at the same time.

The only reason this is first is because Paul Ryan wants it.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 4:06 PM  

Rollory wrote:All right, having read the conservativetreehouse link, I retract my earlier statement. A simple repeal would indeed not pass the Senate. Given that, I don't know enough to judge the Ryancare bill.

I still want to see the medical price-fixing stopped.

Me too. This doesn't get us there. It sucks, but there it is. However, this doesn't preclude us from eventually getting there. Trump knows how to read a budget and a ledger sheet. If we are ever able to get there (to stop the price fixing), this road through Ryancare will start us on the path. If we stop on this side-road, it'll suck. But not worse than it sucks right now.

Blogger William Warren March 21, 2017 4:07 PM  

This bill does NOT even come close to repealing obamacare. it mainly moves the penalty as a 30% rate increase you pay to the insurance companies...among with some tax relief. This bill will send the us economy into implosion even faster. Trump needs to dump this bill and push forward with a real repeal.

Blogger Cerdic Ricing March 21, 2017 4:08 PM  

Next, craft a better bill and take your time

That's the whole point of passing it now, they're stalling. They want to take their time. It's been eight years and they don't have something good to pass. They want to deliberate and discuss Obamacare for even longer, and Trump is doing the right thing and calling them out and telling them to go to work.

They've had eight years to get something decent to put up. If they don't have it now, they never will, and they just want something comfortable to pretend like they're working hard as they continue to sit around and do nothing.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 4:11 PM  

Josh (the gayest thing here) wrote:Have to deal with the elephant of Obamacare in the room before you can work on tax cuts, infrastructure, and regulatory reform.

No you don't. You can work on multiple things at the same time.

The only reason this is first is because Paul Ryan wants it.


The single biggest piece of regulation that needs to be eliminated all stems from Obamacare. There is no budget without getting rid of Obamacare, piece-meal though that may be, because it blows up the budget.

Without Obamacare removal, tax cuts will not happen, period. No pie-in-the-sky exists to make it work.

Without Obamacare removal, regulatory reform will peck around the edges and never get anything accomplished. You have 2k+ pages of law that blossomed into literally hundreds of thousands of new regs that are all tied up in Obamacare. They ain't going anywhere until Obamacare is done.

Try getting any new infrastructure plan through without any money, any budget, and all the regulations in the world barring your way.

In other words, stop being a cuck, and use that lump of flesh three feet above your ass.

Blogger Student in Blue March 21, 2017 4:12 PM  

I thought you people were supposed to be smart? Vox is UHIQ. What the hell is up with his low-IQ comment section?

High IQ people disagree with each other all the damn time.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 4:16 PM  

Yes, high IQ people do. But rarely are high IQ people unable to follow a simple deductive argument, or lack the ability to understand a short document (the Constitution), or fail to acknowledge simple facts and replace them with wishes and fantasies instead. That befuddles me.

Anonymous map March 21, 2017 4:17 PM  

The whole point of Trump's strategy is to drop the ball in Congress' court and let them take the fall.

For example, it is not possible to repeal Obamacare because they need 60 votes in the Senate to do so. The modifications to the current bill are, therefore, under the reconciliation portion, which only requires 51 Senate votes.

Here is the strategy. Right now, Democrat Senators do not want to repeal Obamacare because it is their legacy. Trump modifies ObamaCare so it becomes TrumpCare. Let's say nothing changes. TrumpCare is as much of a disaster. Trump then goes back to repeal Trumpcare, realizing that it may not have been a good deal.

What's the excuse for repealing TrumpCare, then? Are the Senators going to argue that millions of people will lose their coverage if TrumpCare is repealed? I thought they already lost their coverage.

The more Trump owns this problem, the more magnanimous he will appear when he is trying to correct it and the more cynical and negative Congress will look.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 4:18 PM  

William Warren wrote:This bill does NOT even come close to repealing obamacare. it mainly moves the penalty as a 30% rate increase you pay to the insurance companies...among with some tax relief. This bill will send the us economy into implosion even faster. Trump needs to dump this bill and push forward with a real repeal.

What it does do is eliminate the requirements for all the regulations that were mandated in the 2000+ pages. Most, if not all (regulations) can then simply be repealed by the executive branch, the HHS secretary, etc. That's why it's a three step plan.

We can't pass a repeal, because of traitor GOP. So instead, we'll eliminate a lot of the source of the regs, then work on eliminating the regs, and then we're most of the way there.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 4:21 PM  

map wrote:The whole point of Trump's strategy is to drop the ball in Congress' court and let them take the fall.

For example, it is not possible to repeal Obamacare because they need 60 votes in the Senate to do so. The modifications to the current bill are, therefore, under the reconciliation portion, which only requires 51 Senate votes.

Here is the strategy. Right now, Democrat Senators do not want to repeal Obamacare because it is their legacy. Trump modifies ObamaCare so it becomes TrumpCare. Let's say nothing changes. TrumpCare is as much of a disaster. Trump then goes back to repeal Trumpcare, realizing that it may not have been a good deal.

What's the excuse for repealing TrumpCare, then? Are the Senators going to argue that millions of people will lose their coverage if TrumpCare is repealed? I thought they already lost their coverage.

The more Trump owns this problem, the more magnanimous he will appear when he is trying to correct it and the more cynical and negative Congress will look.


And this is where Trump is building his leverage. He has very little to work with in the Senate right now. He's working on pouring the metal for the world's largest crowbar right now. This bill, bad as it is, WILL get him a LOT more leverage later, and that's how you win the ballgame.

Unless you're a cuck. Then you lose anyway, but stopping Trump allows you to lose with your "principles" that allow for the failure of WesternCiv.

Anonymous fop March 21, 2017 4:21 PM  

This will be a major win for cucks. Oh, how proud they will be to declare themselves "Providers Of Socialized Healthcare For Americans!"

Anonymous Roundtine March 21, 2017 4:22 PM  

Without Obamacare removal, tax cuts will not happen, period. No pie-in-the-sky exists to make it work.

They can sell Treasuries to the Federal Reserve and presto there's a big tax cut financed with deficit spending.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd March 21, 2017 4:23 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:Karl Denninger has been loud and clear on this with the numbers to back it up: we either fix U.S. healthcare, in large part by enforcing existing laws against price collusion and discrimination, or we kiss it all goodbye.

The amazing bit is that Candidate Trump had this fix via enforcing existing law in his healthcare position paper. President Trump isn't doing it - yet. Maybe he just forgot. Maybe he's up to something. Either way, it's frustrating.

Blogger JWM in SD March 21, 2017 4:25 PM  

"This just proves you are not old. Boomers (like my mom) are obsessed with their medical insurance. Nothing else is even close (mainly because those other things don't directly impact them)."

It's immigration that got us to where we are with healthcare and big chunk of the ACA was immicare.

Blogger Student in Blue March 21, 2017 4:33 PM  

@149. Cetera
But rarely are high IQ people unable to follow a simple deductive argument

Incorrect. That also happens all the damn time. Just look at any debate involving shibboleths such as evolution - tons of otherwise high IQ people that won't follow a simple deductive argument because either they came to their decision via emotion and are just post-rationalizing everything, or their a priori low level assumptions are so different from the arguer at hand that the arguments aren't convincing at all.

High IQ people are very much better at rationalizing away things than lower IQ people. Ergo, don't expect consensus between high IQ people. It can and does happen, but don't assume it'll happen.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 21, 2017 4:33 PM  

Try getting any new infrastructure plan through without any money, any budget, and all the regulations in the world barring your way.

Congress passes spending resolutions all the time

Blogger Silly But True March 21, 2017 4:34 PM  

Technically, "repeal" was an absolute impossibility. Anyo e who presented that as a precisely accurate option was lying.

This gets back to the original legal passage.

Obamacare (the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" [PPACA] aka "Affordable Care Act" [ACA]) is technically comprised of two separate laws: 1. the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" [PPACA] aka "Affordable Care Act" [ACA]; and 2. the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act.

The former was passed into law with the 60 vote Senate supermajority. Recall the drama with losing candidate Al Franken suing for recount that allowed him to win, Arlen Spector swapping from Repub to Demo giving Demos votes 59 and 60. Then the month between swearing in of Franken and death of Kennedy, and then a month to appoint Kirk. Then the LA Purchase and Cornhusker Kickback to get the Hyde Demos aboard.

The problem was that the Senate version differed from House version. And so reconciliatiob vote was needed; by that time Brown replaced Kennedy.

And so the illegal sleight of hand that was perpetrated was that the Senate version of bill which passed 60 vote supermajority was then illegally made to act as the base bill - which technically needs to originate in the House not Senate.

So the passing Senate bill was grafted on to existing House bill addressing homebuyer credit for servicemembers, and then this was passed by House which had Demo majority. And then signed into law.

Most all of the framework was constructed under the supermajority law. And then blanks were filled in and appropriation levels which can be changed by simple majority were then tweaked to the House version through the second law.

Without a supermajority,but with majority of both House and Senate the best a "repeal" could possibly consist of was a retweaking of the second law to levels (including reducing to zero) favored by Repubs.

The framework was always going to remain because Repubs don't have numbers to actually repeal.

The train of whether the process by which Obamacare bill was passed into law, using Senate version grafted on to unrelated existing House bill has already left the station.

Blogger JWM in SD March 21, 2017 4:34 PM  

"The whole point of Trump's strategy is to drop the ball in Congress' court and let them take the fall.

For example, it is not possible to repeal Obamacare because they need 60 votes in the Senate to do so. The modifications to the current bill are, therefore, under the reconciliation portion, which only requires 51 Senate votes."

Yeah, that would be okay if we had time which the Denninger argument says we don't.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT March 21, 2017 4:37 PM  

@60 - Again, Ryancare isn't worse. It is terrible, but it isn't worse,

Gee, where have I heard this before?

Again, McCain isn't worse. He's terrible, but he isn't worse. - GOPe

Again, Romney isn't worse. He's terrible, but he isn't worse. - GOPe

Again, Obamacare isn't worse. We have to pass it to find out what's in it. And we can fix it later. - Pelosi.

I digress...

The penalty is worse, will lead to a growing class of chronic uninsured if it is passed, and is an EASY target for left propaganda. Ryan might as well have put a bulls eye on Trump's back with that one steaming piece of the bill. (Maybe that's the point?)

It is a long way from being good, but feel free to die with your principles if you so desire.

This isn't dying with my principles. This is bait-and-switch in the style of the finest cuckservatives. Why is Trump falling for it?

Trump has power now. If he blows this, he loses influence. Maybe a lot. Maybe too much for his other plans, including phase 2 and 3.

If he gets it right, he gains. Get on TV and Twitter and lay it out for the American people and Congress. Politicians live and die by public opinion. You get Trump voters calling, writing, screaming about the medical monopolies and repealing Obamacare and even McCain will fall in line.

Hell, you might even get Bernie millennials on your side when you start talking about breaking medical monopolies.

The entire swamp has to be drained before the medical monopolies are going to be fixed.

He is the president and directs the attorney general. Tell the AG to start prosecuting under existing law. Some of it will be challenged, but some of it will be a slam dunk. Either way, it will all be front page news. Meaning it will focus national attention on an issue where the MAGA team and the Bernie team actually sort of agree.

The mere threat of doing so will bring the entire medical community to heel. See how fast their lobbying evaporates when they're facing public anger from one side and the AG from the other. See if you need "steps" then.

Maybe Trump can pull this out. Maybe by phase 3 enough will be fixed that we won't be facing literal collapse. But on this one I refuse to show any judgement towards Republicans who are saying it's crap. Because it is.

And this is a very, very dangerous issue to approach with a bill that's "not worse" and a promise to "fix it later." It hits very close to home for the largest voting demographic, and it has the potential to break us financially. And I do mean break.

Blogger Harris March 21, 2017 4:42 PM  

It is not always true that any action is better than no action. The Ryan bill is an abomination. If it passes, it will be hung like an albatross around Trump's neck. The Congressmen are doing him a favor by opposing it, and demanding more. The real issue is Mitch McConnell's unwillingness to recognize that the battlespace has changed, and the filibuster is forever dead. The Democrats will NEVER AGAIN honor it, so trying to preserve it is a fools game - a trap set by the Democrats which the Republicans are falling into.

Anonymous Red sky in morning March 21, 2017 4:44 PM  

Step 1. Repeal

Steps 2-8 single bills to address specific issues

Blogger Tuatha March 21, 2017 4:45 PM  

Behold brothers, a beautiful day has come! One of the non-human globalists is now in hell! Just a few more hundred of their ilk to go!
https://geopolitics.co/2017/03/20/david-rockefeller-just-died-hooray/

Anonymous Red sky in morning March 21, 2017 4:48 PM  

I honestly thought Trump was letting Paul Ryan run around with his crappy bill to let him hang himself when he chose Rand Paul's solution. What a disappoint

Blogger Anchorman March 21, 2017 4:48 PM  



I agree that they're stalling.

But Trump shouldn't force bad legislation.

He should get his Chief of Staff in the Oval Office, maybe bring in Newt for procedural expertise, and craft the bill from the WH.

In the meantime, crack the whip on the issues he has high approval on.

Then, when the better legislation is ready, that is when you look to strongarm the weak-knees. You do it when his approval is high because he's doing what's promised and delivering for months.

Blogger Nate March 21, 2017 4:49 PM  

Simply doing something to say you did something is bullshit.

Anonymous kfg March 21, 2017 4:57 PM  

"Trump has power now."

So do a lot of other people. Only they got theirs first and have had time to dig in.

Trump is not a Republican. He's a privateer who has boarded a rich galleon with a small prize crew, but the fight for it has only just begun. He has seized the helm, but not the ship.

Anonymous kfg March 21, 2017 5:02 PM  

@164:

I have an El Rey del Mundo to unwrap just for the occasion.

Blogger Silly But True March 21, 2017 5:03 PM  

More thought should have been put into the CBO instructions.

It's not customary for CBO to address how many are covered by legislation.

It should have been financial score only with prohibition on estimation of how many get covered. That's rhetorical narrative that was carelessly ceded.

Does the legislation add to or subtract from the deficit. That is the CBO "score" to be quantified.

Blogger Cetera March 21, 2017 5:11 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:@60 - Again, Ryancare isn't worse. It is terrible, but it isn't worse,

Gee, where have I heard this before?

Again, McCain isn't worse. He's terrible, but he isn't worse. - GOPe

Again, Romney isn't worse. He's terrible, but he isn't worse. - GOPe

Again, Obamacare isn't worse. We have to pass it to find out what's in it. And we can fix it later. - Pelosi.



This isn't dying with my principles. This is bait-and-switch in the style of the finest cuckservatives. Why is Trump falling for it?

Trump has power now. If he blows this, he loses influence. Maybe a lot. Maybe too much for his other plans, including phase 2 and 3.

If he gets it right, he gains. Get on TV and Twitter and lay it out for the American people and Congress. Politicians live and die by public opinion. You get Trump voters calling, writing, screaming about the medical monopolies and repealing Obamacare and even McCain will fall in line.


All true, all of it. But this time there is one difference. Trump is asking for it to happen.

He may be the God-Emperor, but he isn't a savior. He's still fallible. This may be the largest mistake of his so-far very short political career. It has potential upside, and potential downside, and no one can say for certain which way it will go.

I'm willing to give Trump the chance, though. We ride, or we fall, on the outcome of his executive ability. He has done beyond what I had even believed might be possible up to this point.

I've contacted my Senators and urged them to vote for it, and my Rep too. It doesn't help that my Senators are some of the worst (McCain, Flake), but whatever. I've put my chips on the table. At this point, I'm choosing Trump over any other hidden or fully cucked congresscritter.

Anonymous FP March 21, 2017 5:19 PM  

I have no faith that this will work out well but I'll support Trump for now. They all have till 2018-2020. 2027-2030 at best if things keep going on healthcare price wise before collapse.

Anonymous Scintan March 21, 2017 5:28 PM  

Cetera wrote:Yes, high IQ people do. But rarely are high IQ people unable to follow a simple deductive argument, or lack the ability to understand a short document (the Constitution), or fail to acknowledge simple facts and replace them with wishes and fantasies instead. That befuddles me.

You seem to be confusing disagreement based upon a reasonable set of counter beliefs and counter thoughts with an inability to follow arguments, and a lower I.Q..

They are not necessarily the same thing, and that's applicable to this instance.

Anonymous Loki7 March 21, 2017 5:49 PM  

Lets pass it as an interm action. It lets congress keep the built-in pork for another year that Obama gave them to get it passed. Fix it up right later.

Blogger Silly But True March 21, 2017 5:54 PM  

Please. FFS, any shit bill no matter how shitty that removes the subsidies, scales back the Medicaid expansion, reduces its cost, and deficit is a step in the right damn direction.

Anonymous Raw Cringe March 21, 2017 6:11 PM  

I just can't believe how fervently you nerds are debating this, as if your nerdy debates matter at all.

Just back the God-Emperor and shoot left. What is hard about that? A subject and a sovereign are clean different things.

Anonymous Grayman March 21, 2017 6:12 PM  

I read the conservativetreehouse article and would say that given trumps history he has a plan, however see my link @28. There is an argument for the plan being to blow it up by going with Ryancare. Trump knows how to play the bankruptcy game and given banons outlook it could be the case.

Anonymous Roundtine March 21, 2017 6:15 PM  

Republican leadership take out provision to stop money going to illegal aliens. This feels like Medicare prescription drugs all over again.

Blogger Mountain Man March 21, 2017 6:24 PM  

The bill is shit:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-obamacare-immigration-idUSKBN16S2RX

Thanks Butt-Naked and the UniParty ( Demonrats and Republicucks) .. You really saddled us with a beauty.
Let it all burn !

Blogger Elder Son March 21, 2017 6:25 PM  

Just back the God-Emperor and shoot left. What is hard about that? A subject and a sovereign are clean different things.

https://youtu.be/SBEaBta0EJQ

Blogger Billy Ray March 21, 2017 6:26 PM  

THIS is probably the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard in my life.

I have no doubt that the bill isn't as good as it should be. Who cares? The point is that Republicans have to stop pretending that they're going to act someday and start acting.

so what if it is shit, pass it any way. we have to pass shit to make it look like we are doing something even though everyone knows we are just passing shit that will make things worse.

passing shit is better than doing nothing..what? since when is making things WORSE a better option, and you claim to have a high IQ, guess again

Blogger Billy Ray March 21, 2017 6:27 PM  

these people were elected to REPEALO'care not make it worse. not pass mre GOPe crony capitialist crap. if this passes, the reps will lose control of the Senate and maybe the house in the mid terms

Blogger Mountain Man March 21, 2017 6:29 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Raw Cringe March 21, 2017 6:30 PM  

hey THX friend, I never realized how CRINGE that song is until now... maybe I will write a story about it

it is all thanks to U, Elder Son

Blogger Elder Son March 21, 2017 6:32 PM  

I can't seem to find (pick a name)Care in the consteetootion. Maybe someone can help me find?

Blogger Mountain Man March 21, 2017 6:33 PM  

"Simply doing something to say you did something is bullshit.”

Exactly..because of this approach to governing the US economy now resembles a giant yard sale and all other parts of it are quickly descending into a dystopian nightmare.

Blogger Mountain Man March 21, 2017 6:35 PM  

@164

FFS - its a hoax thats been floating around the net for the last week.
No doubt the newborn baby blood transfusions will keep that cunt alive for another decade.

Anonymous JI March 21, 2017 6:35 PM  

I just don't care as long as Trump moves us toward 1965 demographics (in Vox's words) and ensures our gun rights. Everything beyond that is gravy.

Blogger Matamoros March 21, 2017 6:39 PM  

As I have noted on CH:

The ultimate response of Trump has to be the jailing of dissident judges, politicians and individuals who promote treason against the U.S.

That this will likely result in the same effect as Caesar crossing the Rubicon, the ending of the American Republic and the rise of the true American Empire, will be heralded loudly and strongly by real Americans tired of the fake American control of the United States.

Blogger Silly But True March 21, 2017 6:41 PM  

To repeal it, 6 more Republican Senators need to be elected beyond those already in office; probably 8-12 to account for those trying to sabotage.

No democrat or independent(D) is going to vote repeal.

Until then, repeal is not an option.

The only option currently available to Congress is making it shit less or shit in different ways more tolerable.

Blogger Mountain Man March 21, 2017 6:42 PM  

"The ultimate response of Trump has to be the jailing of dissident judges, politicians and individuals who promote treason against the U.S. “

I look at that fag Ryan with that hideous fungus beard on his face and I think to myself “ how much longer can we endure these repulsive critters"

Anonymous kfg March 21, 2017 6:44 PM  

https://infogalactic.com/info/David_Rockefeller

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd March 21, 2017 6:46 PM  

Elder Son wrote:I can't seem to find (pick a name)Care in the consteetootion. Maybe someone can help me find?

Emanations of the penumbra, baby!

JI wrote:I just don't care as long as Trump moves us toward 1965 demographics (in Vox's words) and ensures our gun rights.

0bammy-care/Ryan-care will cause a financial disaster. If President Trump can deliver those on two things, we can live through a financial disaster.

Blogger Mountain Man March 21, 2017 6:49 PM  

@192

Great ! I stand corrected. It appears the efficacy of the blood transfusions had failed with that old shark.

Anonymous Eduardo March 21, 2017 6:58 PM  

Seeing Celera say that his Senator is McCain reminded me why I voted a comedian into congress that has spoken nothing ever dude has not even an idea what his job is. Perfect! Less rules for me to bother about. 500 more like him and We could save Brazil.

Blogger Billy Ray March 21, 2017 7:00 PM  

ryan care is total absolute GOPe CUCKservative crony capitalism and vox is behind it 100 percent, does that make vox a cuck?

Anonymous The OASF March 21, 2017 7:04 PM  

"The current bill is complete garbage and is both worse than Obamacare and worse than straight repeal."

Isn't that the truth. For some of us that are having to fight insurance companies for trying to charge us $1,500 for taking our blood pressure, yeah it kinda matters.

And how about this gem, from infowars...

"TRUMP SIGNS BILL FOR NASA FUNDING, MARS EXPLORATION
With this legislation, we support NASA’s scientists, engineers and astronauts and their pursuit of discovery"

Yes, just what we need. More black box Hollywood Studio Production Mars Rover videos and lousy B-actors pretending to do NASA news conferences.

I'm getting kind of sick of this site and every other alternative right site devolving into pro-trump echo chambers. Call it negativity, defeatism, whatever you want, go ahead and ban me I don't even care at this point. Is it that tough to imagine that maybe Trump indeed was a trojan horse meant to collapse the resistance of the alternative media? Haven't the elites managed to pull every other wool over our eyes?

Blogger James Dixon March 21, 2017 7:11 PM  

OK. I'm home and have some time.

> What part of the traitor GOPe do you not understand?

I'm the one saying I don't trust them.

So we have to trust traitors to pass stage two and stage 3? How's that going to work out, you suppose?

> There is absolutely no way to eliminate the filibuster nor pass a repeal bill at this point.

It takes 51 votes to eliminate the filibuster. We'll simply have to disagree on that point.

> A simple repeal would indeed not pass the Senate.

Not without Senate leadership doing their job, no.

> But rarely are high IQ people unable to follow a simple deductive argument

We can follow the argument very well. We simply disagree. Why are you having so much trouble understanding that?

> The train of whether the process by which Obamacare bill was passed into law, using Senate version grafted on to unrelated existing House bill has already left the station.

No, it hasn't.

> if this passes, the reps will lose control of the Senate and maybe the house in the mid terms

And will deserve it. They'll have broken their promises.

> To repeal it, 6 more Republican Senators need to be elected beyond those already in office; probably 8-12 to account for those trying to sabotage.

Which they're almost certainly not going to get, especially if they pass this monstrosity. So I guess would should all just give up and vote a straight Dem ticket next time, huh?

> The only option currently available to Congress is making it shit less or shit in different ways more tolerable.

So why aren't they doing so? This is just as bad. They don't eliminate the subsidies, they don't eliminate the exchanges, they don't eliminate the penalties, and they don't allow for service across state borders or independent cooperatives.

Blogger Ingot9455 March 21, 2017 7:11 PM  

I may not like the bill but...

It's just two months into the God-Emperor's reign. If he gets a bill into law flawed or not, by the end of three months, he's a miracle worker. It took the Dem's seven months under Obama to get a bill to the floor and that was WITH having the bill already written and waiting in the wings - whereas the Repubs didn't dare write down a bill so it couldn't be attacked.

Blogger Ingot9455 March 21, 2017 7:17 PM  

To continue, getting a bill into law by three months means there will be a phase two and phase three, as opposed to the usual DC rope-a-dope.

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