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Monday, March 13, 2017

The decline of trust in the USA

Bill Bishop attempts to address it, in the Washington Post, of all places.
The easiest sell of President Trump’s life is that a “corrupt” media produces “fake news.” After all, fewer than 2 in 10 Americans have “a lot” of trust in news organizations, the Pew Research Center has found, and we live in a “Matrix”-infused “conspiracy culture,” according to social scientists, where one is thought to be impossibly simple to not understand that the world is ruled by collusion and machination.

Trump has helped make trust a big deal for media types, and they are now searching for ways to regain the faith of their readers. To combat the “fake news” charge, the New York Times, for example, is running full-page ads and even bought a television spot during the Oscars declaring that “the truth is more important now than ever.” For some, the problem is that journalists have allowed too much of their personalities to creep into their work. Pittsburgh Post-Gazette editor David Shribman prescribes “less analysis and more reporting, less personality and more facts.” For others, there’s a need to demonstrate that journalists are not faceless elites but real people. Washington Post opinion writer Dana Milbank wrote of his newsroom colleagues: “They hail from all corners of this country, from farms and small towns, the children of immigrants and factory workers, preachers and teachers.” But even local papers, the ones most closely connected to their readers, are struggling to defend their integrity. One editor of a rural California paper accepted an op-ed about the danger of “fake news” in an attempt to instill some faith among the anti-press crowd.

You can hear similarly fretful discussions in dozens of other professions. The president has maligned politicians, scientists, judges, teachers, labor union leaders and intelligence officials, among others. “Donald Trump’s most damaging legacy may be a lower-trust America,” the Economist’s Lexington column predicted. Trust in American institutions, however, has been in decline for some time. Trump is merely feeding on that sentiment.

The leaders of once-powerful institutions are desperate to resurrect the faith of the people they serve. They act like they have misplaced a credit card and must find the number so that a replacement can be ordered and then FedEx-ed, if possible overnight.

But that delivery truck is never coming. The decline in trust isn’t because of what the press (or politicians or scientists) did or didn’t do. Americans didn’t lose their trust because of some particular event or scandal. And trust can’t be regained with a new app or even an outbreak of competence. To believe so is to misunderstand what was lost.
Well, I certainly think the behavior of the media, the political class, and the university professors has contributed to the decline in trust.  However, look at how the USA is more heterogenous and more US residents now possess national backgrounds from historically low-trust peoples.  Thanks to Robert Putnam, there is now an understanding that a more diverse population is a lower trust one due to inter-group dissimilarities.

But I haven't seen anyone connect the fact that low-trust immigrants tend to bring their lack of trust with them to these observations of declining trust, even though the demographic math would indicate that it is likely an additional contributor.

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111 Comments:

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) March 13, 2017 9:01 AM  

“Donald Trump’s most damaging legacy may be a lower-trust America,” the Economist’s Lexington column predicted.

Trump is a symptom, not a cause, of lower trust America.

Anonymous james@wpc March 13, 2017 9:08 AM  

"The decline in trust isn’t because of what the press (or politicians or scientists) did or didn’t do."

You've got to be kidding me! Is this chutzpah or what?! Shameless

Blogger JP March 13, 2017 9:11 AM  

If you can believe "religion enslaved the world for thousands of years", but "Rich bankers run the world" makes you chuckle, you're a fool. Back in the day religious disciples had to carry their message by foot. The big daddy bankers simply have to dictate an email (you just know mr Rothschild doesn't do his own typing).

Anonymous Grayman March 13, 2017 9:13 AM  

This ties to a comment from yesterday

DonReynolds wrote:
…..To those Defeatists who say that resistance is futile, or the battle is already lost, or we will get slaughtered if we try, I only say one thing.....

Their BIG MISCONCEPTION is thinking they will be able to park on the couch and watch it all on television news without breaking a fingernail. They will be very disappointed when they are rounded up by one side or the other. Maybe not for combat roles, but there will be plenty of work to do. In all likelihood, they will not even know which side is having them work.


I think this is a key idea to keep in mind. Once again I’ll reference the Spanish civil war. No one was allowed to “stay out of it”. If you didn’t choose a side you were either forced to choose or killed by one side or the other as a potential threat.
Regardless of a desire to “stay neutral”, “not participate”, etc. once the conflict between the leftist and the right escalates in the US there will be no neutral ground, no side line. No one will trust anyone except known members of their team and all others will be viewed as potential threats or as potential resources for the opposition.
This growing lack of trust will make local “meatspace” social networks ever more important, and those in your local “meatspace” who are not known to you ever more dangerous. There were regular and extensive “cleansings” of unaligned individuals and families throughout the Spanish civil war by all sides involved.
What really kicked off the violence in the Spanish civil war was the political killing of a key conservative politician by the police in the middle of the night as they were rounding up political targets for detention. Given the similarity in the course of events that seem to be developing I wonder if a similar sort of killing might spark off violence in the current conflict.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable March 13, 2017 9:14 AM  

“Donald Trump’s most damaging legacy may be a lower-trust America,” the Economist’s Lexington column predicted.

Since the things in which we formerly trusted have proven themselves untrustworthy, lower trust in America is actually a positive. Maybe this time a few people "won't get fooled again".

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 13, 2017 9:15 AM  

"trust" is a precursor to "morale".

"production" is a precursor to "logistics".

therefore, an ideology which reduces intra-society trust and / or domestic productivity is, at a very high level, an act of war.

Anonymous Grayman March 13, 2017 9:16 AM  

@2

"The decline in trust isn’t because of what the press (or politicians or scientists) did or didn’t do."

Nope, no way, the 65+ MSM reporters directyl coordinating with the hillary campaign was in no way a violation of trust. Move on please...

Anonymous krymneth March 13, 2017 9:21 AM  

If you want to have some fun with a liberal, ask them if it's bad that people in general don't trust the media. They will of course say yes. Then ask them, what is the solution to the problem that people don't trust the media?

Pretty much without exception when this discussion comes up, the only answer offered is just that you should trust the media more. The idea that media are going to have to do something to earn that trust back is entirely foreign to them. It seems to be an unthinkable thought to them, since in my experience if you try to explain this idea to them it is so foreign they simply can not grasp it. That social capital may have to be earned, that giving unearned social capital can itself be bad, that trusting the untrustworthy is not a social benefit, all these ideas seem to be unthinkable thoughts.

Therefore, since the news media is liberal, and suffer from all the aforementioned problems, plus arrogance and increasingly large chips on their shoulder, we get to look forward to the news media trying to fix this by simply yelling "TRUST US MORE? WHY? BECAUSE!". And then being mystified at the result. Should be a blast.

Anonymous TS March 13, 2017 9:23 AM  

"But I haven't seen anyone connect the fact that low-trust immigrants tend to bring their lack of trust with them to these observations of declining trust, even though the demographic math would indicate that it is likely an additional contributor."

Especially Indians(dot)they're some of the worst. Explains their "society".

Blogger Some Dude March 13, 2017 9:24 AM  

Its also the fact that the media cabal, like the CIA cabal and so on are genetically low trust. Every single conviction of white collar insider dealing and market abuse crime in the 'greed is good' 1980s era were the tribe. Once you're aristocracy and elite become low trust predators, this behaviour waterfalls down to the upper class, the middle class and eventually the proles. Its all about Race as heartiste says. Race explains everything. Everything else like economics, culture or laws is commentary.

Blogger Some Dude March 13, 2017 9:28 AM  

Kinds of Deplorable

Good point. Losing trust in very high IQ conmen like the Economist, is actually a vote of condifence in the intellect of the general public. From the nadir of the Iraq War, the questioning and resourceful attitude of younger people to the Narrative is encouraging.

As Pumpkin Person said, the Iraq war was a kind of general IQ test. While most people failed it in America, many did pass the Syria one and the majority are passing the Russia one.

Good progress!

Blogger Aeoli Pera March 13, 2017 9:28 AM  

For some, the problem is that journalists have allowed too much of their personalities to creep into their work.

For some, the problem is that murdering journalists would make his mother unhappy.

Washington Post opinion writer Dana Milbank wrote of his newsroom colleagues: “They hail from all corners of this country,

From Brooklyn to the Bronx, and even so far out as the Beltway!

Anonymous Grayman March 13, 2017 9:29 AM  

Marine Le Pen speaks the truth out loud.

https://gab.ai/shadowmud/posts/6065364

Anonymous Dyskord March 13, 2017 9:32 AM  

The assumption that isn't questioned is that the media, politicians, academics deserve our trust.
As if they needn't earn it.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 13, 2017 9:36 AM  

Those Who Can See has an article about what happens when people from low-trust societies enter high-trust societies. Basically, the latter are easy marks for the former, and it's predictable.

If the high-trust society at least recognized the difference, it could protect itself. Japan might fit that category. But when a high-trust society assumes everyone else holds the same values about trust and corruption, it's almost defenseless against low-trust groups.

Blogger LibertyPortraits March 13, 2017 9:38 AM  

Low trust peoples is right. When I was selling cars I never saw anyone comb over a car so thoroughly like a brown person. An older gentleman told me its because in their culture they are always trying to screw each other.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning March 13, 2017 9:42 AM  

The easiest sell of President Trump’s life is that a “corrupt” media produces “fake news.”

It's amazing how thoroughly the "fake news" meme has blown up in the faces of the MSM. They are the ones who launched and promoted it during the elections to smear their opponents. Here- have an atomic bomb, gratis. Please don't drop it on us.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer March 13, 2017 9:44 AM  

It used to be axiomatic among the left that people immigrating from countries where the police were corrupt and the rule of law did not apply would not trust the police here any more than they would in whatever country they originally hailed from. They simply lacked the experiential background to formulate any other mindset. Lack of trust in police and other institutions was a reasonable reaction to the reality of their existence.

Considering how the institutions of the US have been subverted, or converged, how is it unreasonable to not trust them?

Civic forfeiture, no-knock SWAT raids, MSM that continually slants news to further their agenda, MSM and politicians conspiring against the populace, using lawfare, including the criminal code, to silence legitimate political opposition, accusations of racism, homophobia, sexism, to silence debate, city and state governments allowing rioting to silence debate, university administrators encouraging rioting to silence debate, etc, etc, etc.

Fuck em.

Blogger mushroom March 13, 2017 9:47 AM  

The media has a great plan. They are going to confess their faults, one to another, then tell us just enough truth to get the rest of us to believe their next lie.

I have an even better plan.

Blogger Jourdan March 13, 2017 9:54 AM  

These people don't have an ounce of self-assessment ability. The Post is near-literally unreadable to all who don't share its outlook. It's like reading a Scientology pamphlet; if you're in the in-group it all is sheer obvious good-sense. If you're not....

Anonymous Bz March 13, 2017 9:59 AM  

"Trump ruined such an unsurpassed con. It will take us some time to collect ourselves."

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 13, 2017 10:00 AM  

But I haven't seen anyone connect the fact that low-trust immigrants tend to bring their lack of trust with them to these observations of declining trust, even though the demographic math would indicate that it is likely an additional contributor.

It's a chicken and the egg sort of thing. The problem is the people from low trust societies act in untrustworthy manners. This drags the native population down to the low-trust level. So it is very arguable that it has everything to do with the things they have done. Build on top of this the natural conflict that occurs between heterogeneous populations and it's a problem that can't be overcome without segregation.

Anonymous Tony Denton March 13, 2017 10:04 AM  

Did anyone see Steve Kings racist Nazi tweet.

He's about to go down

This is the end of the "altright" movement

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer March 13, 2017 10:05 AM  

I know a few people who have visited China. Every single one of them mentioned the lack of queuing at buffets. Filling up a plate is a free-for-all. They won't even queue when it would be more efficient to do so.

Anonymous Dyskord March 13, 2017 10:06 AM  

@16 that is 100% correct.
Here in S.A if you buy a second hand car/ appliance or anything really from a white person you can 95% of the time find it as advertised. Sometimes in better condition than stated as the person selling will try to improve it for the buyer.
If the seller is coloured you have a 95%% chance of receiving a dud. Some way, somehow the seller will be fleeced. Your second hand car which worked like a beauty when you bought it will suddenly need an additional 10 grands worth of repair by week 3.
If the seller is black good luck and may I interest you a bridge selling in london LOL

This is from a coloured person. There is no trust or sense of obligation towards another.

Blogger Doug Cranmer March 13, 2017 10:07 AM  

I've seen this in two high tech companies I've worked for. The Canadians didn't have a chance. I've always wondered at what level there was knowing collusion and what the pay off was.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 13, 2017 10:07 AM  

22. basementhomebrewer March 13, 2017 10:00 AM
and it's a problem that can't be overcome without segregation.



you know when they were segregated?

when the low trust peoples lived, geographically, in their low trust society and vice versa.

Blogger Marie March 13, 2017 10:08 AM  

Oh, the NYT is running full page ads. I feel better already.

Clearly, if the AD section will print it (and on using a Full Page!) it MUST be true!

Sheesh, they aren't even trying anymore.

Blogger Wanda Sherratt March 13, 2017 10:10 AM  

He writes as if a decline in trust is something that just happens naturally with the passage of time, like wrinkles. But the institutions that are fretting so much about their loss of influence have been around for centuries, yet only in the past 50 years or so have they experienced this sort of collapse.

Wretchard at the Belmont Club has been writing for years about the "design margin" in society - the surplus in trust that can cushion us from injury in case of problems. The elites in all institutions have been busily eroding that design margin for their own short-term advantage. Lying by the press, corruption by Congress, laxity in the churches, avarice in big business - it paid off for the people doing it, and they never foresaw a time when the insulation of trust would be eaten away. At best, like gamblers, they imagined that they could repair things later, once the urgent requirements of the present were satisfied. Yeah, they'd lie to get an Obama or a Hillary elected, but afterwards, once the prize was attained, there would be time to mend fences and put things right.

The result is that these elites have skeletonized society, and now what used to be a comfy couch is bare bones and wires for all of us.

When the West was strong, we knew that every good thing had to be earned and protected. We knew that trust didn't naturally arise or naturally decay - it had to be acquired and stored. That's why were were taught not to give in to the temptation to cut corners, even in small things, because trust was something that was constantly dependent on what we did. Our design margin was so great that many people couldn't see that anymore; they thought that the respect given to a minister or a policeman was just inherent in the office and would always be there, no matter what they did. Now they're finding out the truth. The writer's correct that no quick fix is available.

Anonymous andon March 13, 2017 10:10 AM  

"Trump has helped make trust a big deal for media types, and they are now searching for ways to regain the faith of their readers."

nah, they're searching for ways to attack Trump

“Donald Trump’s most damaging legacy may be a lower-trust America,” the Economist’s Lexington column predicted.

who's fault is that?

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 13, 2017 10:18 AM  

My own view is that this new conspiracy culture is a by product of the Deep State.

Every country that has a Deep State develops a conspiracy culture.

While the trust issue among immigrants is there, I don't feel that this has effected traditional American culture.

Some neighbors of mine recently got together and re-roofed the house of a neighbor we shared. We knew that that family couldn't afford to do it due to a protracted illness.

Nobody made the decision. No one commanded that it be done. The only thing that happened was that the word went to be there at a certain time and place if you wanted to help. And none of use really knew who started it.

Everyone brought what skills we had and we made it happen. At the time we did it, we all said it was kind of like a Barn Raising. Which indeed it was.

Here is the big thing about Barn Raisings. They have never and I do mean never happened anywhere else in the world.

I mean yes, buildings do get put up but that was always due to the order of the Clan Chief, the Headman or Big Ju-Ju.

But only here in America has a group of unrelated strangers ever gotten together for a project that promises them nothing but hard work with a few beers and some barbecue afterward. This Barn Raising culture emerges from a very high level of trust.

Half of America still remains the highest trust people that have ever existed BUT only half.

But and this is the interesting part, it's this Barn Raising half that has the conspiracy culture.

Then again how paranoid are you when they really are secretly out to get you?

I mean what is MILO doing these days?

Blogger Timmy3 March 13, 2017 10:20 AM  

Immigrants bring distrust of police, politicians, government, and news reporters. Liberals and Progressives feed that distrust on a regular basis and the irony is they own those institutions.

Blogger Joe Doakes March 13, 2017 10:23 AM  

In the olden days, reporters told us who, what, when, where and how.

Nowadays, journalists tell us how women and minorities feel about it, implicitly telling us how we ought to feel about it, too; unless, of course, we're heartless bastards who hate women and minorities and want them to die.

That's why Fox News had such a hit with its slogan: "we report, you decide."

Full page ads won't fix that problem.

Anonymous andon March 13, 2017 10:26 AM  

Aeoli PeraMarch 13, 2017 9:28 AM
For some, the problem is that journalists have allowed too much of their personalities to creep into their work.

For some, the problem is that murdering journalists would make his mother unhappy.


i was thinking about this the other day. how many high profile "journalists" would have to be offed before the rest decided they'd better play it down the middle?


Anonymous Michael Maier March 13, 2017 10:27 AM  

To combat the “fake news” charge, the New York Times, for example, is running full-page ads and even bought a television spot during the Oscars declaring that “the truth is more important now than ever.”

A TV spot being run THEN and saying THAT is just more proof that the NYT is both tone-deaf and damned clueless.

Was that because Oscar ad time is relatively cheap?

Blogger phunktor March 13, 2017 10:29 AM  

The "implied covenant of fair dealing" may be a tragedy in Britain, but it's a comedy in India.

Blogger Marie March 13, 2017 10:29 AM  

I don't think lack of trust is just due to the immigrants from low-trust societies.

We have had several generations of children who grew up watching adults gleefully screw people over.

For example, the article mentions a lack of trust in teachers. That would describe most of the thinking members of my generation. We watched each other get screwed by teachers for years. They made fun of the dumb kids for jollies, they applied double-standards at will, they outright lied to us or promoted the lies in the "curriculum." In the few cases they were called out, they often circled the wagons and lied for each other.

Sure there were some good ones, and they were loved. But even those had limited ability to protect us or right wrongs.

We don't trust teachers....what a shocker!

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 13, 2017 10:31 AM  

Just another progtard giving us a glimpse into the culture of the Left in our multi-ethnic empire. Not so much a commentary on flyover America but what this person sees about him in his work and social environs.

Prediction time, the 2020 presidential race will be an open bidding war on the Left from all the power bases that will make Bill Clinton's aspirations seem like George Washington's.

All the ethics of a third world bazaar will be on display

Blogger VD March 13, 2017 10:35 AM  

This is the end of the "altright" movement

Again? It's been declared dead almost as often as #GamerGate.

Anonymous BBGKB March 13, 2017 10:38 AM  

Trust is so low they have had to take out Anti Trump ads in NYC subways, that's more telling than the Man in the High Castle ad response.

there’s a need to demonstrate that journalists are not faceless elites but real people.

"NY Times reporter selflessly takes homeless men into his home"

I know a few people who have visited China.

There are 2 white vloggers in China that are brutally honest but still love China and married there.
https://www.youtube.com/user/churchillcustoms The most shocking thing is their explanation as to why friendship doesn’t exist in China, people just use each other in relationships.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 13, 2017 10:41 AM  

There's an interesting sleight of hand as part of this article. It's ostensibly about trust in general, not just trust in the media. Yet he starts with this bit:

The easiest sell of President Trump’s life is that a “corrupt” media produces “fake news.” After all, fewer than 2 in 10 Americans have “a lot” of trust in news organizations, the Pew Research Center has found,

So the reader's focus is on that. Then, after several paragraphs about other things, he says:

The decline in trust isn’t because of what the press (or politicians or scientists) did or didn’t do.

But he hasn't proven that at all. The overall decline in trust may not be the sole fault of the media, but the decline in trust in the media certainly is the fault of the media, and due to things it has done and not done.

That's true of the other institutions as well: trust in politicians is down because they've been lying to us. Trust in scientists is down because some of them have been lying to us (or their work has been used to prop up lies). And trust in media is down because they've been lying to us. They're not just suffering from a general decline in trust, which I think is the main takeaway he's hoping to transmit with this piece.

There probably is a general decline in trust due to the invasion from low-trust societies, but that doesn't explain trust in the media being somewhere around "used car salesman." And since the media has been a major cheerleader of that invasion, it's partly culpable for the general decline anyway.

Anonymous Just another commenter March 13, 2017 10:42 AM  

It's a matter of conditioning. Like an abused spouse who really wants to believe his violent wife will change, will mean what she says *THIS* time, will finally come clean about her cheating and lying and spendthrift ways, eventually the American Public has been taught that no, the media will NOT change, will NOT tell the truth, will NOT be trustworthy. It's taken a century, but they have finally convinced us that they are agenda-driven rhetoric in the guise of objectivity first, last, and always.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 13, 2017 10:44 AM  

low trust CME appears to be in the process of destroying their $4 billion investment in the UFC via ((( best business practices ))).

https://youtu.be/gMzirjp1ZGE?t=1m50s

Anonymous Trump Democrat March 13, 2017 10:45 AM  

Trust is huge. When I get betrayed I get so upset.

Anonymous Grayman March 13, 2017 10:47 AM  

Tony Denton wrote:Did anyone see Steve Kings racist Nazi tweet.

He's about to go down

This is the end of the "altright" movement


Forgive If I’m feeding a troll here but this is hilarious. The entire alt-right is going to curl up and cry because they got called names? Because this politician cant speak as eloquently as Geert Wilders? The left will yell and scream the entire way down, get used to it. Racists, Nazi, Misogynist, etc has lost all impact and frankly means that the left’s buttons are being pushed the louder they call names.
Even if this one politician complete blows himself up politically it is irrelevant. The leviathan of the right is waking and there is little that can be done about that, the only question is will the left allow this proceed without violence (but we know the answer to that too)?

Blogger Resident Moron™ March 13, 2017 10:53 AM  

"The leaders of once-powerful institutions are desperate to resurrect the faith of the people they serve."

It's ironic, given what follows this line, that it could be written at all. The largest, most pertinent, and most enduring factor in the loss of faith in our political institutions, is that they have not SERVED us at all.

Contrary to the bland pablum of high school civics class, they do not serve nor seek to do so.

Rather they rule with callous arbitrary casual cruelty, and what they do not already rule they are ever seeking to bring under their command.

And THIS is why we don't trust them, this is why we hate them.

This is why we will destroy them.

They have rebelled against their lawful authority, have broken every law, breached every trust, betrayed every moral and ethical principle.

They are traitors and treason demands death for one simple reason; it kills.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 13, 2017 11:01 AM  

1 - go to blog of Literally Hitler, the internationally known Racist, Sexist, Homophobic Dipshit

2 - accuse completely unrelated third party of being a "racist Nazi" in an off topic thread post

3 - ???

4 - Profit!

Anonymous Grayman March 13, 2017 11:01 AM  

@46

The vast majority of the structures of western society have failed to serve the people, from the church to the political stricture to the courts to the teachers.

that is one of the better brief descriptions I have heard for the problem of education. Teachers RULE students for the political elites benefit in modern education they do not SERVE the student by guiding them to enlighten themselves.

Anonymous BBGKB March 13, 2017 11:06 AM  

Well you can trust me that i know how the left will react when the Drug Resistant HIV that arrived last year in the US & this new deadly 3rd world fungi makes its way to the bathhouses. Deadly Drug resistant Candida auris in US, was in Colombia, India, Israel, Kenya, Kuwait, Pakistan, South Korea, Venezuela and the United Kingdom before
http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article137943703.html

If you think white people have been resting on our laurels with antibiotics you haven’t seen how limited our fungal treatments are.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer March 13, 2017 11:06 AM  

When it becomes routine for influential institutions to denigrate your culture and celebrate its imminent death (along with your demographic) perhaps it is perfectly reasonable to not trust those institutions?

Blogger Mr.MantraMan March 13, 2017 11:15 AM  

Yeah Ron great observation and well stated.

To expand on that I say we call the Left on their calls for violence (Snoop Dog's latest video and explicit call for violence)

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 11:19 AM  

"Trump is a symptom, not a cause, of lower trust America."

Bingo.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 11:23 AM  

@krymneth

"The idea that media are going to have to do something to earn that trust back is entirely foreign to them."

B-b-b-but the legacy media merely serve to transmit the completely "objective" version of events! It says so right there in the First Amendment.

Blogger J A Baker March 13, 2017 11:24 AM  

Well, I may be biased, but I believe that everyday, every newspaper's front page headline and every news cast's top story should be the Gospel and then on to other news.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 11:27 AM  

@Some Dude

"Its also the fact that the media cabal, like the CIA cabal and so on are genetically low trust"

Yeah, having a hostile elite in charge, who don't identify at all with the historic American nation, is both a cause of a vibrantly diverse low-trust society, and an exacerbating factor in that diminished trust.

Anonymous Grayman March 13, 2017 11:32 AM  

A truly WTF add from Sweden, notice the small print:

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17265058_1459157267437042_2278355982220753885_n.jpg?oh=3e3b6e1a17fc21a6b5790056287a5a31&oe=5932FC17

Blogger J A Baker March 13, 2017 11:35 AM  

@Mr. MantraMan,

Snoop's been calling for violence for over twenty years, and not only violence, but he also glorified drug use, promiscuity, and gang and criminal lifestyles all which have been very destructive to a generation black families and communities across the country, and he bacame rich and famous for it, but now he says black lives matter?

Blogger Feather Blade March 13, 2017 11:36 AM  

This yahoo doesn't realize that Trump's accusations wouldn't have any traction if the majority of people didn't already believe they were true.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 11:36 AM  

@Some Dude

"the Iraq war was a kind of general IQ test. While most people failed it in America, many did pass the Syria one and the majority are passing the Russia one."

The officially-promoted Syria narrative was simply chutzpah run wild.
"We're intervening in a civil war to fight against both sides. No, wait a minute, we're backing THIS group of internationally-recruited radical Sunni jihadis, who are totally democratic, feminist, gay rights-loving good guys, against that other, TOTALLY DIFFERENT group of internationally-recruited radical Sunni jihadis, who are the baddest bad guys ever. Like, literally Htler, or something. And they're fighting against the evil democratically-elected dictator, who is literally Hitler too. We know this will work out well, because look how well Libya is doing after we followed a similar strategy (albeit with a less ridiculous propaganda narrative) there."

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 11:44 AM  

@Grayman

"Marine Le Pen speaks the truth out loud."

Le grand remplacement.

Of course, if you do a search for that term, the very first hit is a wikipedia article that begins with the words "Le grand remplacement est une théorie de type conspirationniste"

Who ya gonna believe, wikipedia? Or your lyin' eyes?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 11:47 AM  

@Ron Winkle heifer

"using lawfare, including the criminal code, to silence legitimate political opposition"

Like 20 years in prison for yelling at black people who threw rocks at your truck.

Anonymous gxg March 13, 2017 11:57 AM  

A truly WTF add from Sweden, notice the small print

WTF indeed. Is that real? An ad that basically says, "Hey There, Swedish Couples, Let Immigrants Father Your Babies."?

Headline: More Swedish Couples are Choosing to Have Multiracial Children

Fine Print: When Klara and her partner Sven, decided it was time to have children, they knew that Simon, a close personal friend who emigrated from Kenya would father the child.


And they say there's no push for white genocide?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 12:00 PM  

@Jourdan

"The Post is near-literally unreadable to all who don't share its outlook"

WaPo has some longstanding connections with the mother of all fake news-- the CIA.

Bezos bought it right around the same time that Amazon got that $600 million CIA contract for cloud computing services, which will apparently be shared with the other US intelligence agencies. Sounds like a potentially massive security risk if you're interested in keeping secrets, but if what you really want is to disseminate propaganda?

Prior to that, WaPo was owned by Katherine Meyer Graham. Her husband, Philip Graham, played a leading role in the CIA'S Operation Mockingbird.

A decent article about Operation Mockingbird (apart from the posturing about "muh McCarthyism," because they're commies):
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/11/30/the-cia-and-the-press-when-the-washington-post-ran-the-cias-propaganda-network/

Blogger tz March 13, 2017 12:02 PM  

Bill Bishop is co-author, with Robert Cushing, of "The Big Sort: Why the Clustering of Like-Minded America is Tearing Us Apart." He lives in La Grange, Texas.
He doesn't think diversity + proximity = war.
The clustering is all that's saving us.

Import Mexicans, and America has the trust in Government and other institutions Mexico has.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 12:09 PM  

@Grayman

Concern troll is concerned.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer March 13, 2017 12:11 PM  

@62

Could you give me a link to that? I was thinking about the stuff in Wisconsin with the John Doe investigations and the Austin DA's indicting the Texas governor for doing his job. I don't doubt it, just very very interested in the details.

Blogger tz March 13, 2017 12:12 PM  

Rule of Law is part of trust, as is reporting facts, at least separate from spin and commentary.

Nixon did a coverup and had to resign and his pardon was controversial.

Bill Clinton perjured himself and was impeached but not convicted.

Hillary ran pay to play and endangered national security and wasn't charged.

Yet patriotic Americans are being charged and imprisoned daily.

The media is well-known, the alt-media exists because the bias got so bad.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 13, 2017 12:15 PM  

@gxg

"And they say there's no push for white genocide?"

It's just a "conspiracy theory," goy-- I mean, my fellow White people. Nothing to see here.

Blogger tz March 13, 2017 12:18 PM  

Least common denominator.
I don't think Japanese next to Scandinavians would be a problem.
But high-trust is self-reinforcing, so cheaters are expelled or ostracized.
When you have a diversity, you can't trust your neighbors to enforce culture or the social contract.

Anonymous gxg March 13, 2017 12:20 PM  

Thinking more about the multi-cultural babies.

Right now, black babies are the ultimate status symbol among low-sexual-market-value virtue-signaling fatties. "See how worthy I am? I have a wonderful black baby. I'm not racist. I'm open-minded and loving. And someone wanted me."

Never mind that the baby will almost surely dumber than the mother. And never mind that the sperm-donor, if he bothers to stick around, will likely beat her, cheat on her, and sponge off her welfare while bringing misery to her and her whole family.

Facts would change some of this. Now, I realize that facts by themselves don't change the minds of idiots. But imagine if, rather than being praised for her "multi-cultural baby," people openly sneered and asked, "Really? You don't mind that your baby's going to be dumb, retard-level dumb, compared to a white baby?"

Things used to be like this. Yes, the "bad old days." But women respond to praise and incentives. If (when?) black babies go out of fashion, once women are openly mocked for bringing dumber offspring into the world, things might begin to improve.

Blogger tz March 13, 2017 12:34 PM  

@67
Flags and N-words = 20 years

Anonymous Grayman March 13, 2017 12:36 PM  

gxg @70

There is a lesbian couple in my town that has adopted 2 black children and there are a fair number of people who will say WTF when in private trusted company but run with the polite "thats nice" in public. Some of the husbands are a bit more open about it because frankly "those boys" really dont fit in with the otherwise 98% white upper middle class community. There is a small group of moms/women who latch onto it to virtue signal as loudly as possible.

Blogger D. Bay March 13, 2017 12:41 PM  

Well, to be fair, Obama turned out all right, good student, became an attorney, after being raised by his Anglo grandparents in Hawaii. Regardless of what you think of his politics.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 13, 2017 12:46 PM  

D. Bay wrote:Well, to be fair, Obama turned out all right, good student, became an attorney, after being raised by his Anglo grandparents in Hawaii. Regardless of what you think of his politics.

Exception proves the rule. Also, if all mixed race children had parent's with radical connections that allowed their child to be used by wealthy benefactors interested in destroying their society then they would do ok for themselves. Most of them don't fit that criteria though.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 13, 2017 12:56 PM  

tz wrote:@67

Flags and N-words = 20 years


Corpse of the 1st Amendment is starting to stink. Cucks need to be forced to watch footage of this side by side with Black block and BLM footage. BLM certainly uses more charged language and actually commits acts of violence to go with the threats. As many people have feared the excuse of "terrorism" is being used to prosecute domestic individuals while ignoring actual terrorist's threats.

Anonymous BBGKB March 13, 2017 1:06 PM  

There is a lesbian couple in my town that has adopted 2 black children

I am not sure if i should feel more sorry for the boys or girls adopted by dikes, the mental abuse of boys might be worse than the lickings the girls get. At least when they make movies about gay mudsharks they dont hide the mudshark sunglasses.

Blogger Sheila4g March 13, 2017 1:07 PM  

Once you accept that something or someone you believed in wholeheartedly was just selling a passel of lies, you lose that child-like instinct to trust in any/all authority. Once you realize there's an entire back story that's been hidden, or 3 more sides to the issue that you've never learned about, you begin to look more more critically at everything. First you unravel one thread, and then find another loose end and start picking at it, and before you know it the whole thing has come apart. While for me it began with living/traveling abroad and then graduate school, and accelerated while comparing what I read in the International Herald Tribune with what I knew from embassy cable traffic, it accelerated rapidly with the internet and then the Alt Right. Now I really don't reject any "conspiracy" theory immediately (caveat: I can't get behind "the moon landings were faked" and "chemtrails are real"). Everything else is fair game.

Anonymous gxg March 13, 2017 1:09 PM  

Well, to be fair, Obama turned out all right, good student...

How do we know? Not sure that "good students" spend millions of dollars to have their record sealed. Plus, once the dude goes off the teleprompter, he becomes a bumbling idiot.

There is a small group of moms/women who latch onto it to virtue signal as loudly as possible.

It's hard to believe, but there's a good chance that these women have no idea that genetics plays such a role in intelligence. Until a couple of years ago, I had no idea either, because my education, society, everything informed me that intelligence was mostly (all?) due to environment.

But the more time went on, the more my eyes and ears told me otherwise. Finally, after silently wondering at this, I said to a trusted friend, somewhat hesitantly, "You know, I, um, don't think blacks are as smart as whites."

My friend looked at me like I'd just suggested burning a cross on the neighbor's front lawn. He said, "Wrong. It's all due to poverty." I said, "No. That can't be the case. Look at poor white areas. They're not violent shitholes..." We went back and forth for maybe an hour before we let the conversation go, with unspoken conclusion that I was suffering from a sudden bout of racism.

And then, I did some research, supplemented by fact-based articles and interviews, mostly on podcasts. Now, a couple of years later, my conclusion has been solidified, and I'm angry that everyone lied to me for so long, and worse, that I was stupid/trusting enough to believe those lies.

And my friend? Well let's just say that his eyes are open now, too.

All this to say, when you grow up knowing certain "truths" because you've been told those "truths" from birth, from absolutely everyone -- the media, teachers, society at large -- it takes a lot to realize that either they've been terribly misinformed themselves, or they've been outright lying to you.

I suspect it's some of both.

But here's the upside. Attitudes can change, sometimes quite rapidly. And the more that normies are lied to in the face of obvious evidence otherwise (such as when a "peaceful protester" assaults an elderly man or smaller woman) the more that people will realize that people ARE different, and will likely always be different, regardless of how many freebies and preference-points we give them.

Anonymous kfg March 13, 2017 1:12 PM  

". . . journalists are not faceless elites but real people."

As it happens I know real people. Several of them. How is a hightened awareness that journalists lie, cheat and steal to further their own interests supposed to make me more trusting of them?

Blogger D. Bay March 13, 2017 1:21 PM  

"Plus, once the dude goes off the teleprompter, he becomes a bumbling idiot."

Not true. Obama won the majority of the presidential debates against McCain and Romney. He lost the first one against Romney. But he wouldn't have gotten two terms if he didn't win most of the debates. No teleprompter was used there.

Blogger Marie March 13, 2017 1:26 PM  

@ gxg

The women you are talking about aren't going to care about intelligence. They _might_ care about social pressure.

But most of those women have already ostracized themselves from the groups they want. They use their babies as a shield and a ticket. They aren't damage or unpleasant people...it is the racist haters who are picking on their poor child. Now, they have a new sisterhood with the other women in the same boat.

Woman want to be part of groups and will work to create a group if they can't fit in with existing ones.

It is natural to think mothers put some thought into who should father their children and the well being of their child. But outside of what is just instinctive to all women, most girls these days don't think past their own selfish wants.

Those girls don't care if their children will be less intelligent, if they will be stuck between two contradictory cultures, or if they even have a father who is present. It is all about them.

Blogger pdwalker March 13, 2017 1:30 PM  

that's cucking outrageous!

Blogger Cail Corishev March 13, 2017 1:32 PM  

It's hard to believe, but there's a good chance that these women have no idea that genetics plays such a role in intelligence.

They do and they don't. When one of these enlightened, modern women decides to get artificially inseminated, she damn sure wants to know the IQs of the donors. At the same time, she believes all the little kids at the local preschool, regardless of ancestry, are equally capable of being A students, and you're a vile racist if you say otherwise.

Anonymous gxg March 13, 2017 1:43 PM  

The women you are talking about aren't going to care about intelligence. They _might_ care about social pressure.

Right. Your post is absolutely true. The thing that gives me pause is the swing of the pendulum. Right now, 99% of the visible social-pressure is pro-black baby. If someone has the guts to express disapproval for the idea of diverse babies, they're shouted down by mobs of SJWs.

But there was a time, not terribly long ago, when societal pressure was the exact opposite. We're long overdue for a pendulum swing back toward realism.

If, for example, our government runs out of money for freebies, things could change quite rapidly. Or, as more whites become tribal in response to anti-white rhetoric and discrimination, this could offer a smaller nudge away from current thought patterns.

Either way, I believe it's societal pressure that will ultimately lead to a change. Right now, people can virtue-signal with other people's money. If the money runs out, things get a lot more interesting.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 13, 2017 1:44 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:It's hard to believe, but there's a good chance that these women have no idea that genetics plays such a role in intelligence.

They do and they don't. When one of these enlightened, modern women decides to get artificially inseminated, she damn sure wants to know the IQs of the donors. At the same time, she believes all the little kids at the local preschool, regardless of ancestry, are equally capable of being A students, and you're a vile racist if you say otherwise.


Correct, most people (my old self included) believe that IQ is at least partially if not wholly genetic. That's why people casually make comments about kids getting their intelligence from their parents.

The part that is hidden from them is that "smart genes" are not equally distributed among all races. It is verboten to even speak about such an idea.

Anonymous #5454 March 13, 2017 1:52 PM  

Here are actual instructions from Control the Record (CTR) to operative trolls to disrupt social media with memes and comments during the election. See how many tactics you can spot in use here and on other sites you have visited. They are still using these to undermine Trump and his supporters.

This is why we must keep up the morale. We don't need to stoop to such pathetic shilling. Next, this is why there is low trust. People are coordinating efforts do erode trust and truth.

CTR-Digital-Disruption-Memo

I found this on Voat but I think it was part of a wikileaks dump?

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 13, 2017 1:58 PM  

77. Sheila4g March 13, 2017 1:07 PM
(caveat: I can't get behind ... "chemtrails are real").



here's the thing:
aircraft spraying poisons from their exhausts is REAL.

and WE KNOW it.

but i'm not talking about jets or airliners here.

i'm talking about PPL guys flying ultralights and single prop Cessnas, the hobby flight guys, the ones who do the Oshkosh Fly-In annually, the barnstorming stunt pilots you see at every air show ... our favorite Cuckservative "No Chemtrails Yuo" spokesperson, Bill Whittle.

you see, the engine used in a prop driven plane is a normal gasoline engine, functionally the same as what you have in your car.

BUT

the fuel used in that prop driven aircraft is what is known as AvGas or 100LL.

http://airnav.com/fuel/local.html

https://infogalactic.com/info/Avgas

AvGas is a very highly refined version of the pump gas that you put in your car, and it's rated at 100 octane ( hence the "100LL ). further, they don't permit ethanol ( or other alcohols ) to be added to AvGas ... because alcohols draw water, which ruins fuel stored for long periods.

it's exactly the same as what you put in your car, only BETTER.

except for one tiny little detail.

the little "LL" on the end. you know what that stands for?

"Low Lead". AvGas and some racing gas are the only fuels in the country which are permitted to incorporate the old tetraethyl Lead additive.

you know, that's the Leaded Fuel which the US banned back in the 1970s.

are you concerned with your child eating leaded paint chips?

then why do you let Bill Whittle, the same Bill Whittle who poo poos chemtrails, fly over your house?


Whittle's primary argument against chemtrails, that there would have to be separate tanks and discrete fueling of every craft involved in the chemtrail spraying is entirely specious.

you change the formulation of the jet fuel AT THE REFINERY and no one involved in piloting or ground service of the craft would even know what was happening.

because the additive is an integral part of the fuel formulation and is burned in the normal operation of the engine ...

just as your car could spew Lead permeated exhaust if you dump a can of AvGas into your fuel tank.

( don't do this though, Leaded fuels will plug up your catalytic convertor )


so, conjecture about jet airliner chemtrails all you want, you KNOW for a certainty that your local puddle jumper really is poisoning you.

Anonymous andon March 13, 2017 2:20 PM  

D. BayMarch 13, 2017 12:41 PM
Well, to be fair, Obama turned out all right, good student, became an attorney, after being raised by his Anglo grandparents in Hawaii. Regardless of what you think of his politics.


ask the YouTube fella if he turned out alright. Or the 4 men in Benghazi, or the Tea Party members investigated by the IRS, and on and on and on. Or ask them if he's a f'ing LIAR and a snake.

Blogger bosscauser March 13, 2017 2:43 PM  

Next thing you know they'll be calling us racist!

#PresidentTrump2020

Anonymous Mr. Rational March 13, 2017 2:49 PM  

andon wrote:how many high profile "journalists" would have to be offed before the rest decided they'd better play it down the middle?
All of them, high-profile and otherwise, as long as their editors, producers and owners decided that the Narrative is more important than truth.

Who's more important, the columnist or the (((Bezos))) who owns him?

Anonymous Stryker4570 March 13, 2017 3:51 PM  

I came to the realization several years ago that every bureaucracy, organization,and agency either abuses those in/under them, or exploits them. This includes the vast majority of churches and all government entities. Trust has been eroding for years after worst case scenarios proved to be true over and over, and a never ending parade of scandals is force fed to us through the media. Shit just doesn't work like it is supposed to, and not even like it used to.

Blogger weka March 13, 2017 4:08 PM  

Why do you thinning we care
The truth needs no leader

Anonymous Snidely Whiplash March 13, 2017 4:19 PM  

bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) wrote:so, conjecture about jet airliner chemtrails all you want, you KNOW for a certainty that your local puddle jumper really is poisoning you.
Okay, bob, what's the annual lead ingestion from this source? On an average per person basis, it's probably not within the range of homeopathic medication. For those most highly exposed, say pilots and airport fuel handlers, it probably adds up to what, maybe micrograms per year?
I can't tell if you're trolling or stupid, but I'll go with trolling.

Blogger RobertT March 13, 2017 4:26 PM  

“the truth is more important now than ever.”

That should work.

Blogger Happy LP9 March 13, 2017 5:04 PM  

De-bank, De-Phone, De-cable, De-MSM, De-lethally deceptive media. The hypnotic trance can stop.

Anonymous Frank Brady March 13, 2017 6:02 PM  

There is an obvious reason that journalism majors, out of all professional groups, score the lowest on standardized tests.

Blogger OneWingedShark March 13, 2017 6:48 PM  

Deplorable Winning wrote:The easiest sell of President Trump’s life is that a “corrupt” media produces “fake news.”

It's amazing how thoroughly the "fake news" meme has blown up in the faces of the MSM. They are the ones who launched and promoted it during the elections to smear their opponents. Here- have an atomic bomb, gratis. Please don't drop it on us.
Deplorable Winning wrote:The easiest sell of President Trump’s life is that a “corrupt” media produces “fake news.”

It's amazing how thoroughly the "fake news" meme has blown up in the faces of the MSM. They are the ones who launched and promoted it during the elections to smear their opponents. Here- have an atomic bomb, gratis. Please don't drop it on us.


The whole thing is proof God has a sense of humor! :)

Anonymous rws March 13, 2017 7:06 PM  

@87 I love it when BKM goes off his meds. He's a hoot.

Blogger Were-Puppy March 13, 2017 10:42 PM  

@73 D. Bay

Well, to be fair, Obama turned out all right, good student, became an attorney, after being raised by his Anglo grandparents in Hawaii.
---

Did they raise him to be a trannies gay husband with a choom wagon?

Blogger Were-Puppy March 13, 2017 10:57 PM  

@87 bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat )

Whittle's primary argument against chemtrails, that there would have to be separate tanks and discrete fueling of every craft involved in the chemtrail spraying is entirely specious.
---

From what little i've looked into chemtrails so far, I watched a documentary where they had determined through photographs that there are some extra tanks or something putting out a substance. And they aren't jet lines, they are unmarked aircraft or w/e.

I haven't been interested enough to look into it a lot yet.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable March 14, 2017 12:09 AM  

That's why were were taught not to give in to the temptation to cut corners, even in small things, because trust was something that was constantly dependent on what we did.

I knew a night-shift security officer who was fired over a piece of candy, and rightly so. He presumably rationalized that it was okay because it was no big deal, but that's backwards.

If I can't trust you when the stakes are small and it would be easy for you to not betray me, then how can I possibly trust you with anything important, where the stakes (and temptations) are large?

Anonymous Discard March 14, 2017 5:17 AM  

44. Trump Democrat: Agreed. I remember when someone has cheated me. If I ever see them choking, I will not apply the Heimlich maneuver. If I ever see them drowning, I won't throw them a life jacket. If I ever see them getting the shit beat out of them, I will not call the cops. They chose to put themselves outside the boundaries of civilization, and I will respect those boundaries.

Anonymous Avalanche March 14, 2017 8:26 AM  

@62 "WTF indeed. Is that real? An ad that basically says, "Hey There, Swedish Couples, Let Immigrants Father Your Babies."?"

Well since so many damned "immigrants" are RAPING Swedish women, the "immigrants" ARE fathering "Swedish" babies... And anyone against abortion is facilitating that!! OOPS! Can't have it both ways!

Anonymous Mr. Rational March 14, 2017 1:11 PM  

bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) wrote:are you concerned with your child eating leaded paint chips?

then why do you let Bill Whittle, the same Bill Whittle who poo poos chemtrails, fly over your house?

Because by the time any of that lead reaches the ground, it's so spread out that my kid is at higher risk from eating what's left in the soil from the decades when all cars burned the stuff.

Avgas is a very tiny niche product.  There's so little of it, it may go bye-bye in the not so far future as refiners don't find it profitable.  This is why autogas STCs are so popular.
you change the formulation of the jet fuel AT THE REFINERY and no one involved in piloting or ground service of the craft would even know what was happening.
And then you'd have massive concentrations of the stuff at airports where jets start and run up right on the ground.  Not to mention being able to take samples of Jet-A anywhere you wanted to analyze for that stuff.

The problem with conspiracy theorists is that the willful ignorance of contrary facts makes them stupidity-spiral into textbook examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Were-Puppy wrote:I watched a documentary where they had determined through photographs that there are some extra tanks or something putting out a substance.
That's what it would have to be.

Blogger SirHamster March 14, 2017 3:48 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Okay, bob, what's the annual lead ingestion from this source? On an average per person basis, it's probably not within the range of homeopathic medication. For those most highly exposed, say pilots and airport fuel handlers, it probably adds up to what, maybe micrograms per year?

I can't tell if you're trolling or stupid, but I'll go with trolling.


A point about dosage being too low to have an effect is not an actual argument against poisoning taking place.

Just as the amount of money paid for sex does not change whether she's a prostitute or not.

Anonymous Mr. Rational March 14, 2017 4:34 PM  

SirHamster wrote:A point about dosage being too low to have an effect is not an actual argument against poisoning taking place.
Yes it does.  The dose makes the poison; IIUC arsenic is a required micronutrient, and you can literally have a fatal overdose of oxygen (2 bar or more of it).

Just as the amount of money paid for sex does not change whether she's a prostitute or not.
Like anyone fuels a light aircraft with intent to poison anyone thereby.

Talk about a strawman argument... and it's crippled besides.

Blogger SirHamster March 14, 2017 5:54 PM  

Mr. Rational wrote:Yes it does.  The dose makes the poison; IIUC arsenic is a required micronutrient, and you can literally have a fatal overdose of oxygen (2 bar or more of it).

Thus, arsenic and lead are not poisons.

Mr. Rational wrote:Like anyone fuels a light aircraft with intent to poison anyone thereby.

Is intent to poison part of the definition of poison? Google says no.

Anonymous Mr. Rational March 14, 2017 9:58 PM  

SirHamster wrote:Thus, arsenic and lead are not poisons.
"The dose makes the poison."  Which word didn't you understand?

Is intent to poison part of the definition of poison?
Is asking for money for sex a deliberate act?  Who pays you to construct such lame arguments?  You show no pride in them or they'd be better.  Are you an intellectual whore?

Blogger SirHamster March 15, 2017 1:13 AM  

Mr. Rational wrote:"The dose makes the poison."  Which word didn't you understand?

I understood your sentence just fine. Thus, arsenic and lead are not poisons. Only doses of arsenic and lead can be poison.

Are you disagreeing with the conclusion to your own premise?

Mr. Rational wrote:

Is intent to poison part of the definition of poison?

Is asking for money for sex a deliberate act?  Who pays you to construct such lame arguments?  You show no pride in them or they'd be better.  Are you an intellectual whore?


Answer the question.

Asking is a deliberate act by definition. I am not paid to post here, but clearly you're too ignorant to recognize a reference to a famous Churchill quote, related to definitions being true regardless of degree. No.

Anonymous Mr. Rational March 17, 2017 1:00 PM  

SirHamster wrote:I understood your sentence just fine. Thus, arsenic and lead are not poisons.
That is inaccurate/misleading.  Arsenic and lead are poisons in certain doses.  So are oxygen and vitamins A and D.

Only doses of arsenic and lead can be poison.
Sophistry fail.  If you are not dosed with them, you are by definition not poisoned by them.

Getting back to the example, I recall a claim somewhere that a Skylane full of 100 octane holds something like a pound of metallic lead.  A C-152 would hold about half that, so someone flying a C-152 all day burning 5.2 GPH at 110 knots would deposit roughly half a gram of lead per linear mile.  If this falls out evenly over a 10-mile crosstrack swath, that's about 18 nanograms per square meter.

The EPA rates up to 400 ppm of lead in bare soil in children's play areas as non-toxic, and 1200 ppm in the rest of the yard.  I'll let you do the math for how much flying you'd have to do before posing any significant risk to anyone.

Leaded aviation fuel will be long gone before we have anything to worry about.

Blogger SirHamster March 17, 2017 2:12 PM  

@110

What part of "Answer the question" did you not understand? The following was a direct questions that I expected you to answer according to the blog rules.

"Is intent to poison part of the definition of poison?"


While you did not answer my other question directly, I think the following says it all:

Mr. Rational wrote:
SirHamster wrote:
I understood your sentence just fine. Thus, arsenic and lead are not poisons.

That is inaccurate/misleading.  Arsenic and lead are poisons in certain doses.  So are oxygen and vitamins A and D.

Only doses of arsenic and lead can be poison.

Sophistry fail.  If you are not dosed with them, you are by definition not poisoned by them.


It's not inaccurate or misleading for me to state that arsenic and lead are not poisons, when my following sentence uses the exact same clarification that you yourself offer as a correction.

You are not very bright. You are not following the blog rules. Taking a 3 sentence paragraph and splitting it into two separate pieces is not honest, either.

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