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Wednesday, April 26, 2017

A belated discovery

The media belatedly discovers that Turkey's AKP is not a pro-Western party that will serve as a model for Islamic democracy:
the Western party line remained unchanged over many years:

“Turkey is now a vibrant, competitive democracy….” —New York Times, June 8, 2010

“A vibrant democracy…an example of reform in the region….” —Foreign Policy, May 26, 2011

“Regionally, a vibrant, democratic Turkey no longer under the military’s thumb, can offer the Arab world a true model…. The Turkish model could also provide a model of how Islamic factions can coexist alongside liberal and secular groups, despite their clashing worldviews….”—Haaretz, August 15, 201

“A vibrant democracy…led by Islam’s equivalent to the Christian Democrats….” —Financial Times, September 15, 2011

“A template that effectively integrates Islam, democracy and vibrant economics….” — New York Times, February 5, 2011

“Turkey is poised to become one of the most successful countries of the 21st century, a model of Muslim democracy and a powerful force for regional peace… —Boston Globe, June 14, 2011

“One of the most remarkable success stories of the past decade…a vibrant democracy and dynamic economy under the Muslim equivalent of Christian Democrats”…—Financial Times, April 19, 20121

The Justice and Development Party, known as the AKP and widely (if meaninglessly) described as a “moderately Islamist” party, came to power in 2002, at which point the rubicund encomiums from the press and foreign spokesmen began. I began visiting Istanbul in 2003, moved there a year or so later, stayed until 2013, and left after the so-called Gezi protests, when, only then, the cheery music in the media fairly abruptly stopped.

The West’s collective assessment of Turkey throughout that time, displayed in official diplomatic statements, the mainstream press, and just as often in the specialized media, was notably weird and notably wrong. It was either the cause or the consequence of an exceptionally poor understanding of Turkey by Western publics and their policymakers. It resulted in the crafting of policies toward Turkey that were neither in Turkey’s interests nor the West’s, and helped, at least to some extent, to usher in the disaster before us today.
Living in a state of constant denial while clinging to the current Narrative is seldom an effective strategy. I can't help but notice that absolutely no one is talking about Turkey joining the EU anymore.

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50 Comments:

Blogger Buybuydandavis April 26, 2017 4:56 AM  

Mark Steyn called it in the mid 2000s. Turkey was heading for Islamic dictatorship. Inevitably. Demographics don't lie.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 26, 2017 5:06 AM  

It's not only demographics.

We have systematically destroyed every secular pro-western moderate regime in the Middle East. It's like some kind of global suicide plan, it's so appallingly & criminally stupid.

At the same time we promote, support, foster, fund, and train the most repressive violent psychopaths we can find.

We have compassed land and sea to find an Islamic Democrat, and when we think we've found one, we make him seven times the son of hell as ourselves.

Blogger Lucas April 26, 2017 5:30 AM  

They knew all along that it was not a democracy. They were probably hoping to make Europeans lower their guard and let them enter the EU.

Blogger Shimshon April 26, 2017 5:34 AM  

I visited Turkey a few months after the first Gulf War in 1991. It was a fantastic trip. There were almost no tourists anywhere. I would not want to visit there today.

Blogger Robert What? April 26, 2017 5:37 AM  

@Resident Moron,

The reason we are following such idiotic policies is because the US government foreign policy is largely dictated by Israel's wishes, not what is best for the US. What Israel wants is the destruction of stable, Arab nation states (which could pose a real threat to Israel's expansion desires) with a collection of Arab rabble that will end up fighting amongst themselves. If tens of thousands of Christians get slaughtered or forced into exile in the process, well that is acceptable collateral damage for Israel. Once you understand that the US government is doing Israel's bidding, it suddenly becomes clear.

Blogger Bastion Harm April 26, 2017 6:03 AM  

I love the word "vibrant".

Blogger Jonathan Wales April 26, 2017 6:12 AM  

"I can't help but notice that absolutely no one is talking about Turkey joining the EU anymore."

Indeed. Turkey potentially joining the EU was yet another reason I, and many others, voted Brexit. I dread to think what would happen if/when they all get visas to EU countries in return for Erdogan 'holding back' the refugees. I do not think Islam is compatible with democracy. Vibrant indeed.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable April 26, 2017 6:18 AM  

It's not just that they all concur in their general analyses, it's that every one of these quoted media sources improbably uses exactly the same adjective to describe the new regime. If that isn't an indication somebody is scripting this for them, I don't know what is.

Blogger Midnight Avenue J April 26, 2017 6:31 AM  

ive worked with and for Turks. They dislike Arabs and Arabs don't care much for Turks, so I wonder how it is possible that Turkey could be a model for Arab states.

Oh sure, they have a religion in common, but that's about where it ends. My experience was that Turks see themselves as supreme, they tend towards totalitarianism and communism, are highly suspicious of anyone not-Turkish, will lie and deceive if it means protecting a fellow Turk, and even though you were born within their political boundaries and practice their religion, they know if you're not a Turk, so screw you when the chips fall.

Turks in America use charter schools as crypto-conversion facilities. Idk about Europe. Stealth invasion and colonialism. They must be feeling pretty cheeky about their success and prospects to show their face even partially, but anyone savvy saw it coming.

Blogger Lovekraft April 26, 2017 6:35 AM  

Gangsters do what gangsters do. Erdogan is a thug who's only calling is to shakedown whatever prosperous state he can get his slimy fingers into.

Anonymous Yann April 26, 2017 6:39 AM  

Why is Turkey gonna join EU?

When there's enough Turkish population in Germany, Germany will join Turkey. Turkey only has to sit and wait, Frau Puppet will do the rest.

Blogger Jonathan Wales April 26, 2017 6:52 AM  

https://youtu.be/I_To-cV94Bo

Spread of Political Islam.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 26, 2017 6:59 AM  

I am honestly surprised that the press finally noticed.

I was indeed expecting them to keep up the Narrative even after slaves start getting openly sold in the bizarres again

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 26, 2017 7:00 AM  

@11 Yann

To get rid of the utterly worthless and hyper-inflated Turkish Lira.

Blogger Duke Norfolk April 26, 2017 7:14 AM  

The brain virus apparently infecting the world's white population is a truly horrifying thing. Reminds one of Toxoplasma gondii infection in mice.

Will we survive it?

Blogger ZhukovG April 26, 2017 7:14 AM  

The Ottoman Caliphate is being reborn, in all but name so far, before our eyes. Apparently, we are trying to create a 'Great Power' that we can use as a weapon against first Russian interests and then possibly against Russia herself. The Europeans have little or no interest in fighting Russia and the Ukraine project has been a humiliating failure.

As a bonus, when Turkey no longer serves our purpose, we can declare them the new bogeyman. Justifying the continued purchase of insanely expensive military hardware of dubious practical use.

Unfortunately, by 2030 or thereabouts we will likely be engulfed in American Civil War 2 and Turkey may be one of the powers backing a faction.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer April 26, 2017 7:15 AM  

Robert What? wrote:@Resident Moron,

The reason we are following such idiotic policies is because the US government foreign policy is largely dictated by Israel's wishes, not what is best for the US. What Israel wants is the destruction of stable, Arab nation states (which could pose a real threat to Israel's expansion desires) with a collection of Arab rabble that will end up fighting amongst themselves. If tens of thousands of Christians get slaughtered or forced into exile in the process, well that is acceptable collateral damage for Israel. Once you understand that the US government is doing Israel's bidding, it suddenly becomes clear.


Except if that is the calculation, it's a stupid one on Israel's part. The "rabble" hate the Jews as well and tend to fight using 4GW tactics. No modern nation has successfully counteracted 4GW.

Blogger Thomas Henderson April 26, 2017 7:23 AM  

so I wonder how it is possible that Turkey could be a model for Arab states

History, my friend, history.

Turks are outsiders, always have been - part of the mongol invasion that wreaked havoc over much of Asia from China to India to Persia. Eventually one of these fierce tribes settled in Anatolia. In the late 13th century its chieftain Osman established a firm hold on power and began raids on the Byzantine Empire. Legend says he had a mystical dream that was interpreted by one of the local seers as giving his dynasty (henceforth known as Ottomans) Allah given authority over all the earth. Success fed success until these tribesmen conquered the Second Rome, the Orthodox axis mundi of Constantinople. The emperor in Constantinople was styled the ecumenical ruler, the head of the household (oecumene), i.e. the habitable world. It was natural, therefore, for the Turks to see their prince as a Caliphate, the Muslim equivalent. Even to this day, Turkey's motto is Devlet-i Ebed-müddet, "The Eternal State", even though the Ottoman Empire has been defunct since 1924.

The dream of Osman and the Caliphate has not died. Turks once mastered and governed all of Arabia. Why not again?

Anonymous Avalanche April 26, 2017 7:26 AM  

@9 "My experience was that Turks see themselves as supreme, they tend towards totalitarianism and communism, are highly suspicious of anyone not-Turkish, will lie and deceive if it means protecting a fellow Turk, and even though you were born within their political boundaries and practice their religion, they know if you're not a Turk, so screw you when the chips fall."

OMG! You mean they're JEWS?!?!

(Just how close IS Turkey to the Khazarian mountains?!)

Anonymous Walter Oleg April 26, 2017 7:38 AM  

This shows us again that the media and foreign policy establishment don't write about reality, only what they want reality to be (or what they want us to believe reality to be). And I say GOOD! Let them build their foundation on falsehood.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 26, 2017 7:45 AM  

Yeah the dream of joining the EU is dead.

Erdogan is going to reintroduce the Death Penalty.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 26, 2017 7:47 AM  

More like the EU joining Turkey.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 26, 2017 7:49 AM  

Avalanche wrote:@9 "My experience was that Turks see themselves as supreme, they tend towards totalitarianism and communism, are highly suspicious of anyone not-Turkish, will lie and deceive if it means protecting a fellow Turk, and even though you were born within their political boundaries and practice their religion, they know if you're not a Turk, so screw you when the chips fall."

OMG! You mean they're JEWS?!?!

(Just how close IS Turkey to the Khazarian mountains?!)


Make a triangle between the Black Sea, the Caspian Sea, and the Mediterranean Ocean, and you'll have compassed 80% of the Swiderians' descendants.

Blogger JP April 26, 2017 8:04 AM  

They used to say that about Mandela-era post-apartheid South Africa too.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 26, 2017 8:06 AM  

Why do we call them "intelligence agencies" if their employees systematically produce grossly inaccurate conclusions?

From the CIA to all the "news" organizations, it's too heterogeneous a system to be an organized conspiracy, and the Stupidity can't just be contagious...or can it be?

Ideas spread like a viral pathogen.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd April 26, 2017 8:23 AM  

dc.sunsets wrote:Why do we call them "intelligence agencies" if their employees systematically produce grossly inaccurate conclusions?

Irony?

Blogger praetorian April 26, 2017 8:27 AM  

They used to say that about Mandela-era post-apartheid South Africa too

And how is South Africa doing these days? I never hear about it in the press. I used to hear about it all the time in the press.

Ideas spread like a viral pathogen.

You don't have ideas. Ideas have you.

Blogger bagginz April 26, 2017 8:36 AM  

Lol! Those quotes from the lamestream media propaganda machine are a good example of why the term "vibrant" is now being used as a sarcastic synonym for immigrant.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 26, 2017 8:50 AM  

Yeah but their god might really be great, have you ever heard a liberal slander Islam?

Blogger Midnight Avenue J April 26, 2017 8:56 AM  

never. But they're more than happy to let me know they're so contemptuous of my Christianity.

I have relatives who won't attend their nieces communion ceremony because Christian, but they're more than happy to celebrate Diwali, light menorahs, or attend iftars.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 26, 2017 8:57 AM  

a good example of why the term "vibrant" is now being used as a sarcastic synonym for immigrant.

But-but-but- that's a word the left chose because it has positive connotations. It's completely inaccurate, so we shouldn't use it, since we're committed to the truth. I think it would be more effective to call them "People Who Break Stuff A Lot."[/sperg]

Anonymous Clueless Cuckservative April 26, 2017 9:00 AM  

But, but, but...muh modurut ISLAM!

Anonymous CarpeOro April 26, 2017 9:01 AM  

Funny how reliable the NYT is. Like a veritable weather vane, just pointed the opposite direction. Anyone reading here or with connections that had any real knowledge of Turkey in the last twenty years would have laughed at how awesomely wrong the NYT is about Turkey (I knew a former missionary to the Kurds in Turkey).

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 26, 2017 9:12 AM  

IMO the leftists don't believe most of the stupid crap they say or write, they are womanish and they say what others say they don't really believe it. But we on the right take our women too literally and fail to see that their lives are one continuous struggle in their hierarchy, the hen house with spoken words.

Sailer is making a big deal of the word "interogate" good idea if only the feckless sissy boys of conservative intellectual circles would actually ask their Leftist brethren if they really believe in any of the crap they spew.

But we live in a world where phrases like "White supremacists enjoy the spoils of white privilege in their racist oppressive system" ensure domination on the moral level. of conflict. Myself I would say they are making shit up and so what.

Anonymous Just another commenter April 26, 2017 9:28 AM  

Maybe Turkey isn't joining the EU anytime soon, but an awful lot of Turks already have.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl April 26, 2017 9:40 AM  

I would say that Turkey's going to be admitted to the EU, and probably soon.

Let's not forget that the EU and Merkel are evil rather than just dumb.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope April 26, 2017 10:23 AM  

The Turks will never join the EU because the EU is on the verge of ripping itself in many pieces.

But I believe those behind all these moves know and want the destabilization of the Middle East. They want the war and suffering. It consolidates their control. It allows more money and power to flow to their hands. They may lose money, but their competition loses far more, so net it is a gain for them.

Long run, I fully expect to see full out western jihad against islam. Which is a shame, as they had a right to autonomy as self-governance and life. But no, we had to meddle. And disrupt. And squeeze. And force a sham of democracy upon them. And give them western technology.

And millions upon millions on both sides are going to pay with their blood.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 26, 2017 10:24 AM  

Everything we read in "the press" is nothing more than a look in the rearview mirror.

We trend (drive in a straight line) for long periods, so "the news" (and "expert analysis," including CIA reports, etc.) tends to reflect reality...

...right up until the road makes a hard turn. At that point, steering by looking backward is revealed for what it is.

No man or group of men controls the road. All inferences that they do so are artifacts of trending, nothing more. The "people at the top" are thus just as surprised as the rest of us plebes when our political, social and economic environment suddenly changes trend.

They're not "in charge." They're just a bunch of clowns who reap big $$$ for empty bragging, and we're the dupes who pay them.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 26, 2017 10:44 AM  

"The West’s collective assessment of Turkey throughout that time, displayed in official diplomatic statements, the mainstream press, and just as often in the specialized media, was notably weird and notably wrong."

Don't worry, they're only lying about the one area where you happen to have in-depth knowledge. They tell the truth about everything else. Honest.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 26, 2017 10:49 AM  

@9

"ive worked with and for Turks. They dislike Arabs and Arabs don't care much for Turks, so I wonder how it is possible that Turkey could be a model for Arab states."

As Thomas Henderson points out, you're sort of skipping over a minor historical technicality often referred to as the "Ottoman Empire," which has been gone for less than a hundred years.

You could always try replacing "Arabs" with "kebabs" if you still feel the need to be more ethnically inclusive.

Blogger JP April 26, 2017 10:51 AM  

I agree entirely with the Haaretz quote; the Roman/Byzantine government of 201 AD is a far better model than the current rulers.

MICA!
(Make Istanbul Constantinople Again!)

Blogger Midnight Avenue J April 26, 2017 11:03 AM  

Maybe I am. Are they?

Anonymous BBGKB April 26, 2017 11:14 AM  

Living in a state of constant denial while clinging to the current Narrative is seldom an effective strategy

At least when I lived in Die Verse City I knew it was not the STR8 White Church Going Christian Men who would be committing violence against gays like the Soros paid jewish lesbian gatekeeper said.

We have systematically destroyed every secular pro-western moderate regime in the Middle East.

To be fair they all did fake gas attacks on taqiyya moslems.

I visited Turkey a few months after the first Gulf War in 1991. It was a fantastic trip. There were almost no tourists anywhere.

There is an underground city carved into volcanic rock in Turkey that early Christians lived in for defensive purposes.

Yeah the dream of joining the EU is dead. Erdogan is going to reintroduce the Death Penalty.

Hopefully Le Penn will also.

Anonymous BBGKB April 26, 2017 11:20 AM  

OT: China bans moslem names
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4443586/China-bans-extreme-Islamic-baby-names-Muslims.html

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents April 26, 2017 11:25 AM  

Anyone remember when a previous Pope went to Turkey mainly to have a meeting with Eastern Orthodox bishops? One of the problems the Orthodox have is a "no new churches can be built" law in Turkey. That's one of the standard Dhimmi laws. Underneath the shiny modern exterior parts of Turkey are pure Islam. Add to that the population growth is all out in the Anatolian country side, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together should be able to figure out where Turkey is heading, and "modern secular state" is not that place. So of course the Western journo-lists have no clue what's going on.

Anonymous Cyclone Bob April 26, 2017 12:32 PM  

Mr.Mantraman have you ever heard a liberal slander Islam?"

All the time: 'its a religion of peace' ad excretum.

Have you ever heard a liberal speak the truth about islam?

Anonymous Avalanche April 26, 2017 2:56 PM  

@27 "And how is South Africa doing these days? I never hear about it in the press. I used to hear about it all the time in the press."

No need; they've been destroyed so there is no news.

Blogger frigger611 April 26, 2017 5:24 PM  

Vibrancy. There's that word again. FFS somebody get the left a thesaurus.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 26, 2017 7:07 PM  

That OP violated my "vibrant" quota for the day :P

Any time they start throwing around vibrant, we're bound to see some serious cultural enrichment happening soon. The EU caliphate is shaping up.

Blogger Scott Birch April 26, 2017 11:43 PM  

[chuckle] The Khazarian Mountains aren't just a place: they're a state of mind 😄

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