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Saturday, April 29, 2017

Mailvox: moderates never learn

You don't win by running from your extremists and stabbing them in the back in order to try to win the approval of the center. See: Sinn Fein. And yet, it appears elements of the Alt-Lite intend to make exactly the same mistake that Bill Buckley and his followers did when they banished dissidents from the conservative movement and created the Alt-Right in the first place. A report from Berkeley from someone who has been active there since the start:
Antifa's tactics rely heavily on police non-involvement. In this case, police arrested Antifa wearing masks and also patrolled the nearest parking garage, allegedly catching a truck of Antifa with explosives as a result. They also did NOT disarm our side nearly as much and allowed us to wear masks since they weren't for identity concealment.

While Antifa's tactics are somewhat sophisticated, they don't appear to be flexible or adaptive. 2/1, 3/4, 4/15, and 4/27 were all the same. There were more Antifa present than a first glance suggests, as many of them came in quietly to check out our supplies and our numbers. They must have decided we were too well prepared to attack, at least without their explosives.

One big question of the day was who would the 2 PM start time hurt more: us or them? There are various factors, so can't say for sure, but it would appear to have hurt them more. The numbers we got were key, but that may not be repeatable as the urgency will fade the longer we go without violent confrontation.

I see a disconnect between the rank and file and the leadership, particularly the Oath Keepers and Kyle Chapman. The rally attendees are mostly there to push back and to support free speech. They either don't mind or LOVE Nathan Damigo and the TRS/IE/TDS guys, who literally saved lives on 4/15. Kyle and the OK, on the other hand, actively conspire to prevent any white nationalists from speaking on the open mic and don't want them at the events.

For now, no question, everyone is following Kyle, which makes perfect sense. So far we have the fighters, the medics, and the lawyers working under Kyle's banner.

There's a delegation issue on our side, likely the result of not yet knowing who can be trusted to get things done. I do my own thing with my own group but found it was very difficult to make use of volunteers who didn't have an extraordinary amount of personal initiative bc every decision had to be run by Kyle and Kyle never had time to respond.

The Oath Keepers are a pain in the ass to work with. There was some confusion in the morning bc they were telling people that "the neo-nazis" had been arrested, giving the impression it was Nathan's group. Turns out they use neo-nazi as an all-purpose slur and it was actually Antifa who were arrested. In general the OK have survived by being extremely decorous when it comes to the law, so they are basically the nagging mom on the scene, "I don't like this group, I don't like that group. You can't do X, can't do Y [when actually X and Y are perfectly legal]." Understandable but annoying.

I didn't see this "Millennials vs Boomers" thing at all at this event. The Boomers who showed up are much further right than the youngins. I'm curious to see what comes out of the ghetto going forward. After both events, I ended up talking with young black men from Oakland who consume a ton of YouTube and were hella woke, perfectly happy to embrace TDS guys bc they said people in the hood are sick of the discivic antics of Antifa and BLM.
They aren't the only Alt-Lite group about which I've heard the same failed strategy of running to the center being embraced. The thing that is so stupid about the strategy is that it is bound to fail because it is based on a false assumption that people want to be chased rather than led. The moderate conceptual model can't explain why Ronald Reagan got more votes, and was more popular, than the more moderate George Bush. They can't understand why people will respond so much more positively to those whose nationalism is outside the framework that the mainstream media deems to be reasonable. They can't understand what Osama bin Laden meant by "the strong horse".

And they'll never see it coming when, like the Tea Party, they suddenly find that the parade they think they are leading has abruptly gone in another direction. If it didn't work for the mainstream media, if it didn't work for the American political establishment, if it didn't work for the British political establishment, or for the European political establishments, it certainly isn't going to work for them. These massive waves of social mood cannot be managed, muzzled, or controlled.

I appreciate what the moderates of the Alt-Lite are trying to accomplish, but the current trend is very clear. Nationalism is rising. Not civic nationalism, not paperwork nationalism, not state patriotism, not any other facsimile, but real, genuine, linguistic-religious-genetic nationalism. And the post-It's a Small World Happy Time Credit Boom pendulum has barely even begun swinging back. Anyone and anything that stands in the way of that is going to find itself going by the wayside sooner or later.

Omni-nationalism, not civic nationalism or imperialism, much less multiculturalism or globalism, is the future. The world will be a confederation of nations, not a global federation of denationalized, deracinated, demoralized states. Which, of course, is why the Alt-Right is going to subsume the Alt-Lite, at least, those elements which don't wind up drifting to the Left like the Never Trumpers did.

It is, of course, more than a bit ironic that self-appointed "free speech advocates" are themselves attempting to prevent others from speaking. You'd think people so obsessed with optics would be capable of grasping that they are creating a serious credibility problem for themselves.


UPDATE: To quote Cernovich, few understand this. Almost all the rank and file and 100% of those vying for leadership positions believe appealing to the center is the key. Long run, it won't matter.

Ye cats. To think some still can't understand why I have zero interest in leading anyone anywhere. MPAI. If you learn nothing else here, remember that.

Labels: ,

287 Comments:

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Anonymous Moonbear April 29, 2017 5:59 AM  

I love your optimism and I like the term omni-nationalism a lot.

Blogger SteelPalm April 29, 2017 6:04 AM  

Yeah, I've adopted the term "omni-nationalism" into my own lexicon.

Judging by the astute reference, can one assume you've gone through Al Qaeda Reader, Vox? I've read it myself and found it as instructive about Western conflicts as the nature of jihadis and the Death Cult.

One can always learn from one's enemies, and fellows like Bin Laden and al-Baghdadi are very intelligent.

Don't know much about the Oath Keepers, but it's disappointing if that report was generally true of all of them.

Anonymous Mycroft Jones April 29, 2017 6:18 AM  

Omni-nationalist is a good term. I've been using "Holy World Order" in contrast to the New World Order. Holiness in the King James Bible is translated from the Hebrew word qadosh, which literally means "separate/distinct/distinguished/segregated". Once you have this concept of holiness in mind, you can see it all through Scripture, at every level and in every interaction. Dark from light. Heaven from earth. Ocean from Land. Male from female. Man from animal. Animal from vegetable. Nation from Nation. Tribe from Tribe. Family from family. Man from brother (brothers divide up their father's inheritance), father from son (he will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife)

The Holy World Order of Omni-nationalism is righteous and good; the New World Order of globalism and sterility is evil.

Anonymous Darth Dharmakīrti April 29, 2017 6:19 AM  

Chapman made a real contribution by being the first guy willing to publicly stand up and fight, and has been arguably even more useful as a meme since then. But if this report about his organization is true then he is unlikely to be even much of a figurehead within a year. The legend of "Based Stickman" the Alt-Knight will continue, but Chapman himself has neither authority nor staying power apart from his ability to rally the troops.

Anonymous Mycroft Jones April 29, 2017 6:20 AM  

In short, Holiness means "the boundaries God intended".

Anonymous Moonbear April 29, 2017 6:27 AM  

@4 Darth Dharmakirti
""The legend of "Based Stickman" the Alt-Knight will continue, but Chapman himself has neither authority nor staying power apart from his ability to rally the troops."

The good goys at TDS have already started to bully him into more sensible positions, but it's going to be difficult for him because he has a hapa baby with a Asian woman.

Blogger szopen April 29, 2017 6:29 AM  

I wish it was true, but the question is how fast will it rise - will it rise fast enough to make a difference in a face on unending invasion of "world citizens" - and whether there are limits to the rise.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 6:32 AM  

"Omni-nationalism, not civic nationalism or imperialism, much less multiculturalism or globalism, is the future. The world will be a confederation of nations, not a global federation of denationalized, deracinated, demoralized states."

We are fighting against the universal and homogenized state which comes to us under the guise of "diversity" and "multiculturalism". So-called "racists" of all colors, stripes, and creeds need to form an alliance in order to defeat a common enemy. We can assist an aid one another towards those ends but never loose sight of the fact that while our enemy is common, our interests are not. And there ain't nothing wrong with that.

On a related note, I'm trudging through this article which seems to align with the quote I lifted from Vox's commentary. It is from an article posted on "The Imaginative Conservative" that I borrowed the term "...the universal and homogenized state..." I think you dudes might find it interesting. The author, Mark C. Henrie, wrote this in the 90s. He argues that with the fall of the Soviet Union, which brought about the end of the Cold War, conservatives must now fight against "universal homogenization" as a means of defending an individual's right of voluntary association.

http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2016/09/conservative-reformation-mark-henrie.html

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 6:34 AM  

it's going to be difficult for him because he has a hapa baby with a Asian woman.

Identity, identity, identity. Every single time you scratch a civic nationalist, you find that they have mixed loyalties.

I understand their thinking, of course. There are very few individuals who are capable of simply looking at the big picture as it is rather than viewing it through the filter of "is it good for me and my family". Which is why I am always have to explain "the world is not about me" to those who so astutely observe that rigorous DNA-based boundaries would not work to my personal benefit.

Anonymous MDZ1985 April 29, 2017 6:44 AM  

Sounds as if someone needs to remind those OK guys of the old saying, "lead, follow or get out of the way." People instinctively follow active leaders, and leaders don't waste time worrying about every possible ramification of their actions.

The omni-national world Vox describes makes me happy, while the globalists' vision fills me with a sense of horror. I can sense on a spiritual level that the former is the intended way of the world, and the other is a Satanic corruption. Of course, since the globalist cabal is increasing openly Satanic, I don't really have to rely on mystical woo-woo to sense that.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 6:52 AM  

It's confederation versus consolidation. It's the vision of the Declaration of Independence and Articles of Confederation versus the Constitution. It's the radicals who dominated the First and Second Continental Congresses versus the moderates. The radicals would later become the Anti-Federalists (federal republicans) and the moderates would become the Federalists. The Federalists eventually prevailed in establishing a governing structure which possessed consolidating features.

Blogger SteelPalm April 29, 2017 6:54 AM  

@10

The omni-national world Vox describes makes me happy,

It doesn't make me either happy or sad. It will have pluses and minuses to it.

However, it's the only viable alternative to the blood-soaked, maddening nightmare that globalism would bring about.

Anonymous Looking Glass April 29, 2017 6:56 AM  

@VD:

Has anyone actually noted that the Omni-Nationalism approach is the Game Designer's approach to removing Reward Conflict in a multi-player environment? Unless someone has played & thought through a lot of the consequences of the Reward Cycle in playing games, a person rarely thinks through what happens when there is only 1 Reward for multiple people involved in an activity.

I noticed this pretty quickly, but I'm curious if anyone else had. Hey, if Game Theory can win the Cold War, Game Design can save Western Civilization.

Blogger YIH April 29, 2017 7:03 AM  

police arrested Antifa wearing masks and also patrolled the nearest parking garage, allegedly catching a truck of Antifa with explosives as a result.
Color me skeptical, cops love their ''trophies'', always have.
When I hear some antifa actually get sentenced in a court of law (yeah I know, but humor me here) and put in prison then I'll believe it.

Blogger Lazarus April 29, 2017 7:14 AM  

In this case, police arrested Antifa wearing masks

The only guy I saw arrested on the tube looked like an Asian medical student with a cotton mask and a white floppy sunhat. No black clothing anywhere.

That would be a typical cop move....."see, we are totally objective".

Anonymous Moonbear April 29, 2017 7:17 AM  

@9 VD
Do you think this is why he is so willing to exert violence on leftists, because they have lied to him?

@10 MDZ1985
True, it is painfully obvious by now the globalists are luciferians.
They worship sacrifice, I think it's interesting they are sacrificing the entirety of their own people to maybe gain influence in the other reaches of the world to start taking over those places as well, no sacrifice to great to gain power.
This Dutch finance guy seems to be having regrets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEpcY5JU120

Anonymous Walter Oleg April 29, 2017 7:21 AM  

VD wrote:it's going to be difficult for him because he has a hapa baby with a Asian woman.

Identity, identity, identity. Every single time you scratch a civic nationalist, you find that they have mixed loyalties.

I understand their thinking, of course. There are very few individuals who are capable of simply looking at the big picture as it is rather than viewing it through the filter of "is it good for me and my family". Which is why I am always have to explain "the world is not about me" to those who so astutely observe that rigorous DNA-based boundaries would not work to my personal benefit.


Right. The question is what's the way forward for the Chapman types. If he supports the right of Whites to form exclusive spaces and institutions, I will support his right to do the same (for Chapman I assume this would be a "merica fuck ya, these colors don't run" kind of civic nationalism).

There really is no other choice. The world is a dangerous, tragic place, that is marked by suffering and limited resources. The world belongs to the group that can unify and organize around a common identity and plan for the future.

The globalist elites organize around families and wealth and the NWO plan; which entails mixing everyone else into a soup of identityless consumers that can be easily turned into bricks for their masonic pyramid of power (with the globalists at the top of course) but who will eventually get replaced by robots.

Unlike the globalist elites, I don't support destroying any group of people except perhaps them. I propose splicing their DNA with pigs and keeping them in zoos for public viewing and ridicule.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 7:21 AM  

Follow the flow of energy, and the flow of energy is not centrist.

Blogger Dirtnapninja April 29, 2017 7:28 AM  

The right will make many mistakes as we learn how to organise. I'll wager that Chapman could hammer some deal with the white nationalists that gives them a role while keeping them under the radar. He needs to be building a decentralized network that can survive without his leadership and place important assets where they are needed.

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 7:34 AM  

The question is what's the way forward for the Chapman types.

They need to support the right of free association for people who will not accept them or their families. Either everyone has it or no one does.

This really isn't that hard, but it does require looking beyond "is it good for me personally", which unfortunately is beyond most people. The fact is that the average person, if given control of the Fed, would set interest rates on the basis of their own mortgage.

Which, in a nutshell, is the fatal flaw of democracy.

Blogger Doug Cranmer April 29, 2017 7:35 AM  

The social mood is changing and the kids are woke alright. I'm older and staying at a place temporarily with a bunch of undergrads and 30ish superindendents.

Last night two of the kids were arguing with the super over race IQ, industriousness, etc. I swear, it was like listening to Vox. The super was pretty upset but the kids weren't backing down.

There is hope, perhaps.

Anonymous Avalanche April 29, 2017 7:36 AM  

@17 " I propose splicing their DNA with pigs"

What did pigs ever do to you?! Are you a moslem or something? "Mix" 'em with the cockroaches they resemble!! Pigs = bacon = goodness!

Blogger Koanic April 29, 2017 7:37 AM  

Kyle Chapman is to Samson McVeigh
as
the potential combustive energy of a stick is to that of 4,800 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, nitromethane, and diesel fuel mixture.

Anonymous Avalanche April 29, 2017 7:39 AM  

@19 "The right will make many mistakes as we learn how to organise. I'll wager that Chapman could hammer some deal with the white nationalists ..."

"He is not The One."

He's a great and necessary start, and a valuable asset; but he's not "It." Prepare ye the path.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 7:44 AM  

In my opinion, emergent nationalism is libertarian for it is founded upon the idea of an individual's right to form collectives based on voluntary association which is also the right of exclusion.

I need to read "Mending Wall".

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 29, 2017 7:47 AM  

@20 Vox, what forms of government do you think a revived West should adopt after the vicious storm clears and European peoples - if they survive of course - begin the process of rebuilding?

Anonymous Bobby Farr April 29, 2017 7:55 AM  

Well, progress is certainly being made if armed men beating leftists with sticks now merit the label "moderates".

Blogger FALPhil April 29, 2017 8:16 AM  

I am a midwit, but it seems to me that we need a more strategic approach. Here are my thoughts:

http://strugglingforwisdom.blogspot.com/2017/04/making-antifa-irrelevant.html

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) April 29, 2017 8:19 AM  

Based Stickman is alt lite?

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 8:21 AM  

27. Bobby Farr
Even in the near short-term, Chapman and the Oath keepers will absolutely prove to be too moderate. They are the ones who will adapt Right, or will be pushed aside.

Anonymous Jeff April 29, 2017 8:23 AM  

And they'll never see it coming when, like the Tea Party, they suddenly find that the parade they think they are leading has abruptly gone in another direction.

The same could be said for Richard Spencer who thinks he is leading the Alt-Right parade (with some justification since he coined the term). But the Alt-Right has grown beyond him.

There is currently much confusion regarding the Alt-Right, but if it becomes synonymous with Omni-Nationalism, that would be a very good thing.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) April 29, 2017 8:24 AM  

Vox, what forms of government do you think a revived West should adopt after the vicious storm clears and European peoples - if they survive of course - begin the process of rebuilding?

Direct democracy

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 8:29 AM  

Based Stickman is alt lite?

Yes.

The same could be said for Richard Spencer who thinks he is leading the Alt-Right parade (with some justification since he coined the term).

No, there is no justification for it. Coining a term - or in this case, abbreviating it, as he did not coin the term - does not make one a leader. The very concept is stupid. Who is the more definitive socialist: a) Karl Marx, b) Vladimir Lenin, c) Henri de Saint-Simon, d) Leon Trotsky?

And how many socialists have even HEARD of Saint-Simon?

Anonymous glosoli April 29, 2017 8:32 AM  

@Vox,

The Fed doesn't set interest rates, the bond market does. When the Fed had it's first rate hike in this cycle, short-term rates went down for months. Every time they stopped QE, rates went down. As I type, nearly every part of the yield curve (from 6 months out) is lower than it was in November 2008, peak credit crunch. No growth ahead, the Fed is impotent, just talk and printing. Kings can print money just as well as peasants, democracy isn't the problem, it's human nature plus usury being legal.

'North Korea disrespected the wishes of China & its highly respected President when it launched, though unsuccessfully, a missile today. Bad!'

A global federation of nations? That will only be permitted once every nation aligns with the wishes of the commie Russians and Chinese (ignore your lying eyes though,both nations are state-controlled, with planned economies) . North Korea is on their list, and eventually America too, so rude to disrespect the wishes of China's President. Then everyone can peaceably co-exist, under their boot.

The alt-right/Christians will be persecuted, and will either receive the RFID chip, or go underground and fight as the resistance. Or die.

It's a fight worth fighting, and it surprises me that more McVeighs and Breiviks aren't striking the beast right now.

Anonymous Jeff April 29, 2017 8:42 AM  

The Fed doesn't set interest rates, the bond market does.

The Fed sets short-term rates, and long term rates are ultimately a function of short-term rate expectations.

In addition, the Fed COULD set long term rates if it so desired. See Japan which is currently pegging it's 10yr rate.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 8:45 AM  

@34 I might be out of line but doesn't the Fed wield influence over interest rates through rates it charges to depository institutions? I could be wrong.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2017 8:45 AM  

It is, of course, more than a bit ironic that self-appointed "free speech advocates" are themselves attempting to prevent others from speaking. You'd think people so obsessed with optics would be capable of grasping that they are creating a serious credibility problem for themselves.

They're just stupid and slow to adapt. I mean, most of these Oath Keeper types don't spend enough time on the internet to know that calling antifa "neo-nazis" is Boomerposting.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 8:47 AM  

The way I see it, as soon as the Alt-lite start to get converged toward Uniparty take-over, many if not most followers at this point will notice almost immediately, and respond by forming new leadership in the Omni-nationalism direction. People are aware of the Tea Party convergence to the Uniparty.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 29, 2017 8:49 AM  

@32 Interesting. I've noticed that there's much contention on the Alt-Right as to what government whites should adopt in the future. Many on the Christian side of things want to bring back monarchy and theocracy, which as an American, gives me great pause. While I'm inclined towards the Roman Republicanism that inspired the founders more then the lofty ideas of the enlightenment, I hope that future generations work towards a solution that can revive the American Republic without repeating the mistakes of the past; though how they are to do so without the star - albeit, continually dimming - of our founding faith Protestantism, is a mystery to me.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 29, 2017 8:49 AM  

Boomerposting is the best meme ever, by the way. Shows the alt-white still has their fastball, even if they've turned on the God Emperor over literally nothing.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 8:54 AM  

@39 In my opinion, a consideration of size of the territory and population is important. I think a fatal flaw of the Constitution is the attempt to impose strong central governance upon a territory as vast and populated as the continental United States. It is entirely reasonable to predict a dissolution of the United States into 50 separate sovereign republics which may form into separate regional confederations.

Anonymous glosoli April 29, 2017 8:54 AM  

Jeff, you are ignorant of how it all works. In truth, virtually no one grasps how it all works, but Jeff Snyder is the best I've read:

http://www.alhambrapartners.com/2015/11/18/given-our-situation-federal-funds-makes-perfect-sense/

Japan has the illusion of control only, given its shitty economy in this ongoing depression. Wait til we enter a cycle of real growth, with inflation in prices post 2020, Japan (and its currency) is toast.

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 8:55 AM  

This is not a post about interest rates. Do stop sperging, gentlemen.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 8:56 AM  

@39 I think it is also possible that city states might form out of Blue Cities on the Coasts (NY, LA, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C.), and the South (Atlanta, Charlotte)

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 29, 2017 9:01 AM  

For decades the "Right" was lead by intellectuals who if anything wanted to out intellectual the other intellectuals.


Point being they were above the rhetoric that delegitimizes the opposition, and that is why all those brilliant intellectuals were gob smacked by the likes of Trigglypuff.

You find me an intellectual who will really write the next great essay telling us what the left really means and I'll find the next man that Trigglypuff will sit on his face and smother to death (metaphorically)

Anonymous Teapartydoc April 29, 2017 9:02 AM  

In order for a Thermidor to happen there has to be a change in conditions that makes the more radical stance less necessary and less appealing, and the radicals have to have overstepped their mandate. Without these conditions revolutions will tend to be won by the most radical groups that have broad appeal to the man in the street. And that man wants order on terms he is comfortable with. Antifa and BLM forget that one action the French citizen took early on in the revolution was to empty the prisons and murder people like them. Folks eking out a bare living are not going to accept an adjuvant professor of philosophy as their leader. They'd just as soon use him for pet food.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 9:07 AM  

39. Shane

There are problems with rational thought of the "Enlightenment," and there are problems with pure intellectualism, but.. and this is a huge BUT, we need the third leg of Western Civilization. Beyond Christianity, we need a group of people who are knowledgeable in the historical growth of Western Civilization. Pure rationality is Insufficient without Values, or Christian Values, yet Truth can become Life Truth if the two can be combined.

It is still valuable to know logic inside out, and history is necessary to know our roots. How many people even understand "Roman Republicanism?" It does not take everyone to re-explore these historic foundations, but some need to do it.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 9:12 AM  

45. Mr.MantraMan

"...gob smacked by the likes of Trigglypuff"

Their values were the gravy-train money. VD is an intellectual, has Trigglepuff gob smacked him? Nein, because real Values.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 29, 2017 9:12 AM  

"National Liberation" its time has come, clown ideologies (all ideologies and their isms and ists) to the grave.

By a hair I will lay the problems on the Alt-White because they always take the bait from the left and the gimp civic types and instead of National Liberation will when baited go off into the usual spiel of Panzer production of 1944, always. FTR the Alt-White is composed of dudes who do not enjoy much vagina time, simply put they do not know how to reframe or qualify.

Blogger Lovekraft April 29, 2017 9:14 AM  

Nathan Domingo is the standard. All else should get in line behind.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 29, 2017 9:16 AM  

Tuber, I love you man, that was a great response, "muh values, muh values." I too value my George Will book, George Will is awesome.

Blogger FALPhil April 29, 2017 9:21 AM  

@41 Al, it was never intended to be that way. You can thank Mr. Lincoln for that.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 29, 2017 9:30 AM  

@47 This is very true. The more I read of Spengler, as well as the works of the Durants, and compare their findings regarding civilizations' rise and fall with our current society, the more I come to agree that we're at our strongest when under the guidance of religion/tradition, and slowly begin to decline when we grow to become a reason based culture; so naturally, building your country around enlightenment, or reason based principles, could only end in disaster.

This is also why the constant obsession with Jews by many on the Alt-Right is beginning to bug me; it's not that the JQ isn't important in and of itself, but they should be asking why a once despised group of moneylenders were able to aid immensely in the subversion of Western nations; almost as if European elites themselves opened the floodgates by constantly questioning and criticizing what made them great to begin with: just like the Greeks and Romans before them. Just as Vox says, the Globalists will fail, and they, along with the Jewish elites and their machinations will be swallowed by the great wave of History.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 29, 2017 9:31 AM  

In a just world not corrupted by dorkallectuals the Alt-White should be some pipe laying mofos, but instead they are low Deltas and Omegas. Fapfapfapfap "muh Panzer production in 1944 was awesome till the Joooooos bombed us", fapfapfapfap.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 9:33 AM  

51. Mr.MantraMan

You keep reading your "George Will book," Ill review history.

Blogger Sam April 29, 2017 9:34 AM  

@39
They don't want theocracy, they want a state religion. Which was exactly the case in the original US- the 1st amendment was to prevent a national religion but each state could set its own.

As for democracy, it has to go. You might be in favor of it on a small scale, but I'm pretty sure Greek city states were smaller then what you had in mind and they kept having issues with it. We don't have to go back to monarchy- Japan's system appears to work well- but universal suffrage democracy is not the future.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 9:37 AM  

@52 I go further than that. I blame Hamilton and the Federalists. Lincoln was an extension of such. And I'd be remiss if I did not point out that the exacerbation sectionalist tensions by the slavery issue was caused by the Constitution. Please don't misread my last sentence as a form of virtue signaling. America got off to a good start but "soft coup" by the statists derailed the pursuit of the values and principles upon which American polity was founded.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 29, 2017 9:38 AM  

Chapman made a real contribution by being the first guy willing to publicly stand up and fight,

I don't want to devalue his contribution, but lots of people have been there willing to fight. He happened to be the one whose moment of awesome got caught on camera, and who got arrested. That deserves a lot of respect, but it could have been someone else, including an Alt-Righter, like some of our friends here who have gone to the front.

It's interesting to think about how someone Alt-Right would react to being in his shoes.

I've almost decided it's a rule: if someone seeks out widespread leadership of a "movement," he will turn out to be a conciliatory moderate at best, or a subversive at worst. If you know that MPAI and understand SJW entryism and convergence at all, you're not going to set up an inclusive organization and run to the nearest podium to invite in as many people as possible (except both sides' extremists, of course), because you know how that ends.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 9:41 AM  

Stewart Rhodes, the founder and President of Oath Keepers, has Hispanic relatives. So, unfortunately he has the same chunk in his armor that Kyle Chapman has.

Another factor that influences the organization is the need to not give up on the few good law enforcement types there are out there. That's why the moderating drive is there that people at Berkeley noticed.

Lastly, the active duty membership is vitally important to Oath Keepers. Being declared a militia or an Alt-Right/Neo-Nazi hate group would put Oath Keepers on the off limits list for active duty members, just like the KKK.

These are the factors underlying the organization's decision making.

Anonymous DirkH April 29, 2017 9:43 AM  

If you want to build a movement, you need to tell a story and find followers. The center follows the story told by the cultural marxists in the media. Appeasing them means subjugating under their story and becoming part of their movement.

You don't CONVINCE a member of the center. DEBATE is useless: The offered stories are on the table for anyone to choose. Pick the story of Cultural Marxism, or pick the story of self-preservation, easy choice.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 29, 2017 9:43 AM  

@39 To be fair, some like AntiDem and Mark Citadel say that that's what they want to have.

You're absolutely right about the liberties that States were allowed after the founding; heck, the super left wing state of Massachusetts had a state church up until 1833!

Trust me, I'm under no illusions of the failings of Democracy which is why I share the same skepticism and fear of mob rule that the founders possessed.

Anonymous philaegle April 29, 2017 9:44 AM  

The Oath Keepers are a pain in the ass to work with. There was some confusion in the morning bc they were telling people that "the neo-nazis" had been arrested, giving the impression it was Nathan's group. Turns out they use neo-nazi as an all-purpose slur and it was actually Antifa who were arrested

I don't just want to just gloss over this, I think this touches on a vitally important aspect of the Alt Right advancing in the culture war, the taking back of language and how it's used in these discussions.

I believe (for what it's worth) that identifying the group Antifa as 'fascist', which it truly is and by a number of metrics, is HUGELY important here.* I would recommend referring to them as fascists in every way possible, be it in interviews, articles, blogs, discussion forums, everywhere. It would be good to have backing facts ready to spell this out for the MPAI crowd to easily understand Once the soft middle becomes woke as to the actual identity of these domestic terrorists I think there will be a whole sea change and their side will accelerate in it's inevitable decline.

*Please note I'm not saying this would be easy

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 9:49 AM  

What definition of fascist do you want to use?

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 9:49 AM  

Stewart Rhodes, the founder and President of Oath Keepers, has Hispanic relatives. So, unfortunately he has the same chunk in his armor that Kyle Chapman has.

I'm not surprised. If he's not able to think beyond "what is good for my relatives" he is going to lead his organization into failure and eventual convergence just like the Tea Party. They do have one advantage of an objective standard, though, which will help.

I'm not saying he can't think beyond "me, my family", I'm simply noting that it takes an unusual individual to be able to do so.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 9:50 AM  

Guys... Not wanting to give Alt-White an open mic is not running to the center.

What it is... is not committing suicide.

Alt-white is stupid... short sighted... and filled completely with idiots that have no idea how to get a useful message out.

Oathkeepers is an organization that does things. When you're doing stuff... you quickly learn that there is a subset of volunteers who are worse than useless... they are counter productive. They not only harm your cause unintentionally... sometimes its done deliberately.

Alt-White has had a hugely disproportionate number of those kinds of people as long as anyone can remember.

Before you go saying Oathkeepers is running to the center... consider they are going to Pikeville to defend the League of the South...who openly call for Segregation and call the South "The Land of the White Man".


Anonymous Taco Town April 29, 2017 9:50 AM  

From a strategic standpoint, I don't think arguing with or conflicting with the alt-lite accomplishes anything worthwhile. That being said, it is to our strategic advantage to push the alt-lite into certain avenues of action, specifically keeping on the offensive vs the left. Encourage them to attack attack attack all the left wing garbage that they themselves hate, and especially attack things that provoke the left to respond. The left being provoked responding aggressively is the best way to bring what we want to fruition.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 9:50 AM  

The Alt-Right or Omni-nationalism will not be furthered by anything we say here, it is the Globalist/Leftists who will force people further and further to the Right.

These early center-right movements will be converged and abandoned.

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 9:51 AM  

I believe (for what it's worth) that identifying the group Antifa as 'fascist', which it truly is and by a number of metrics, is HUGELY important here.*

You guys never learn. Who cares about the dialectic? Just turn "antifa" into a term of contempt like SJW.

FFS, when you are saying things like "what it truly is and by a number of metrics", that is a reliable sign that whatever you are going to say next is totally irrelevant.

Blogger Dirtnapninja April 29, 2017 9:52 AM  

philaegle wrote:I don't just want to just gloss over this, I think this touches on a vitally important aspect of the Alt Right advancing in the culture war, the taking back of language and how it's used in these discussions.

I believe (for what it's worth) that identifying the group Antifa as 'fascist', which it truly is and by a number of metrics, is HUGELY important here.* I would recommend referring to them as fascists in every way possible, be it in interviews, articles, blogs, discussion forums, everywhere. It would be good to have backing facts ready to spell this out for the MPAI crowd to easily understand Once the soft middle becomes woke as to the actual identity of these domestic terrorists I think there will be a whole sea change and their side will accelerate in it's inevitable decline.

*Please note I'm not saying this would be easy


This is bad memetics.

Fascism is already unpopular. Boosting that signal will accomplish nothing, and can rebound on us because they own the antifascist narrative. What we need to do is boost the anticommunist narrative. We need to call them what they are..communists, then make anticommunism cool again. When that is done, we can begin applying social pressure on communists and their supporters.

Anonymous Krout April 29, 2017 9:52 AM  

Hey, it's the boys and girls playing cowboys and indians, yet thinking they are playing for keeps. Hilarious. Meanwhile the announcers carp from the sidelines and pretend they are analysts. More hilarious. Meanwhile, the adults look on, do the work that needs to be done, and smile at the kids at play.

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 9:53 AM  

Not wanting to give Alt-White an open mic is not running to the center.

You can't claim to be defending free speech and deny anyone the mic. And they're not just preventing the Alt-White from doing so. They are also trying to smother anything identified as Alt-Right.

Which amuses me, to some extent. I'll be around, saying the same things, long after everyone who is moving towards the center goes the way of the Tea Party. Except the pageviews will be 10 million+ instead of 3 million.

Blogger ZhukovG April 29, 2017 9:55 AM  

I think concern over the future government is premature. It will, like all human institutions, be flawed. Right now we just need to do the job that is in front of us and avoid being 'tea partied'.

As for those in the 'What about me!' group, follow Vox's example and quit worrying. Even an ethno-state is going to allow plenty of exceptions. If you want to be one of those exceptions side with the Nationalists and expect nothing in return. You will likely receive most everything you want.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 9:57 AM  

The Alt-Right perspective is taking hold inside Oath Keepers. It will take some time, but Oath Keepers as an organization is oriented towards reality. It will come.

OpenID paworldandtimes April 29, 2017 9:59 AM  

Even an ethno-state is going to allow plenty of exceptions. If you want to be one of those exceptions side with the Nationalists and expect nothing in return. You will likely receive most everything you want.

Well put.

PA

Blogger dc.sunsets April 29, 2017 9:59 AM  


Ye cats. To think some still can't understand why I have zero interest in leading anyone anywhere. MPAI. If you learn nothing else here, remember that.


The herd chooses the leaders, and oftentimes chooses individuals slated for martyrdom. While specific individuals may matter in the details, and the details may well matter greatly, this subject looks very chaotic to me and I wonder how many aspiring leaders are destroyed in order to produce the people about whom we read in history.

Thanks, but no thanks (would seem wisest.)

Anonymous DirkH April 29, 2017 10:00 AM  

@54. Mr.MantraMan April 29, 2017 9:31 AM
"Fapfapfapfap "muh Panzer production in 1944 was awesome till the Joooooos bombed us", fapfapfapfap."

??? The Reich was the first country with complete Radar guided Anti aircraft guns. The Terror Bombing was very much an attrition campaign with losses in the beginning of 25% per bombing run. Not as easy for the bombers as it sounds now.
The German name for Radar was Funkmessgerät or FuMG. An important one was the mobile Würzburg Riese.

Anonymous arw April 29, 2017 10:02 AM  

@Nate

The alt-Right (alt-White) has been at every one of the battles so far and they're going to Pikeville as well. The criticism is unfounded. Oath Keepers can't help but be civic nationalists so their usefulness will only go as far as their normie relatives will allow.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 10:03 AM  

73. Stg58/Animal Mother

"The Alt-Right perspective is taking hold inside Oath Keepers. It will take some time, but Oath Keepers as an organization is oriented towards reality. It will come."

The way it works is that OK will eventually split, some will converge, and some will become more Omni-nationalism, but the original organization will likely go the converged route, with many leaving going far more Right.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 10:08 AM  

Tuberman, the organization will not become converged. It might lose influence and restrict its focus or reach.

The Alt-Right oriented segment of the members might either leave the organization or focus their time on other activities.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 10:08 AM  

@64 "I'm not surprised. If he's not able to think beyond 'what is good for my relatives' he is going to lead his organization into failure and eventual convergence just like the Tea Party. They do have one advantage of an objective standard, though, which will help."

I just had something that could be termed "Epiphany-Lite". I knew that Black folks were bound up in big daddy government in the form of welfare and the penal system, and that intimate involvement influenced our world view but I didn't internalize this.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 29, 2017 10:09 AM  

@65 I wouldn't say they're "completely" filled with idiots, there are great intellectuals like Jared Taylor and Greg Johnson on their side, but they do show an increasing lack of awareness of the position their country is in. They demand that Trump institute policies that solely benefit whites while simultaneously ignoring American interests overseas in order to implement them; they fail to accept that they won't get their "nice white country" without bloodshed because in reality they live in a multiracial state at the center of an global empire. Trump isn't focusing solely on "America First" because he never truly could, never mind a whites only position; so even if the next four years are your typical "basic bitch" conservatism of the mainstream, it's still ten times better then if the Regressive left got their feelers further entrenched in government through Hillary Clinton!

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 10:09 AM  

Al, Jr hasn't just influenced your worldview, it defines your worldview in its totality.

Anonymous Roundtine April 29, 2017 10:11 AM  

People complicate mixed race by their ideology. The problem isn't that he has mixed race children, it's that he believes it should be promoted by society. If immigration is cut off, mixed race eventually disappears because Model Minorities have ultralow fertility and NAM mixes are NAMs.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 10:12 AM  

60. DirkH,

Nope, Memes are still the best for the Alt-West. Self-Preservation will be obvious because ...the Left, and Identity Politics.

Anonymous badhairday April 29, 2017 10:13 AM  

A simple word of warning:

Modern socialism has slowly gone insane. Its now an ideology with no desire or ability to engage with reality.

It started quite slowly, but as each new generation sought to distinguish itself, it became a little bit more extreme.

To inspire; leaders have to 'more' than their followers. If the Alt-Right subsume the Alt-Lite then the 'leaders' will have to make themselves more extreme also.

There's a fine line between criticizing leaders for appeasement (therefore having a lack of integrity) and for not being extreme enough. If you go down the second path you'll just become what you now hate.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 29, 2017 10:18 AM  

Almost all the rank and file and 100% of those vying for leadership positions believe appealing to the center is the key.

That was reflected by the live streams and chats from Berkeley. For the most part, they're reacting to the Left's game of "Free speech for me, not for thee." But they still hold to the civic nationalist myths on race, legal vs. illegal immigration, democracy, and so on. They looooove meeting a black or Hispanic who's on their side. They think the trouble is coming from an extremist subset of the Left, and they still hope if Antifa can be forced to obey the law, everyone can speak freely and find solutions and we can all learn to get along.

That's not a criticism; it's just where they are -- where many of us used to be. People have to start somewhere.

Anonymous BBGKB April 29, 2017 10:19 AM  

Oath Keepers ...are basically the nagging mom on the scene, "I don't like this group, I don't like that group. You can't do X, can't do Y [when actually X and Y are perfectly legal]

Good to know which AltRight group is best for the faggots.

When I hear some antifa actually get sentenced in a court of law

How many of the tribe's judges wouldn't sentence them?

OT: Media kibitzing TRUMP rally that he called a WAR ZONE. Turns out he isn't the only one to call it that, NAACP also1!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/president-trump-hold-rally-war-zone-harrisburg-pa-article-1.3091213
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/70613-Harrisburg-chapter-of-NAACP-urges-martial-law

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 10:21 AM  

85. badhairday
.
"Modern socialism has slowly gone insane." HA,HA,HA..HA.

As opposed to the socialist moderate days in the 20th century when they murdered what 120 to 160 million people.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 10:25 AM  

"You can't claim to be defending free speech and deny anyone the mic. And they're not just preventing the Alt-White from doing so. They are also trying to smother anything identified as Alt-Right."

Sounds like they don't like the label. Because again... The League of the South is overtly pro-white and Oathkeepers is helping with their demonstration in Pikeville.

For crying out loud the moderates are attacking Oathkeepers for helping the guys in Pikeville... and now you guys want to attack them from the otherside. The best messaging here is to take free speech out of it.

This is not about The League of the South or Alt-White.

Its about fighting Antifa.

Blogger Lazarus April 29, 2017 10:25 AM  

Kyle and the OK, on the other hand, actively conspire to prevent any white nationalists from speaking on the open mic and don't want them at the events.

Bring your own mike and set up nearby without being disruptive. Like speaker's corner in Hyde Park.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 10:26 AM  

The best thing our side can do is be anti-antifa. So whatever antifa is doing... whoever they are attacking... regardless of what we think of the folks they are attacking... we show up and bust their heads.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 10:27 AM  

@54 Mr. MantraMan

Yet somehow, they were the ones who beat down the Commies in Berkeley (and Sacramento), not you. Funny how that works. Sometimes it's helpful to engage with reality, rather than your strange sadomasochistic "muh ebil not-sees!" fantasies.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 10:27 AM  

badhairday,

The problem is nihilism, if you spot them on the Left or the Right, they always go toward totalitarian solutions ... Every.Time.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 10:27 AM  

@82 I think I'm at a crossroads much like the dilemma described by Frost in "The Road Not Taken". Bill Cosby arrived at this point but he hesitated and Michael Eric Dyson pounced. Cosby, in my opinion, could not bring himself to completely throw large swaths of the Black community under the bus.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 10:30 AM  

"The alt-Right (alt-White) has been at every one of the battles so far and they're going to Pikeville as well. The criticism is unfounded."

Alt-Right /= Alt-White.

They are not the same. Alt-White is a small subset. Likely the smallest subset. Its just to damn myopic and obsessed with its on navel to realize it.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 10:34 AM  

The Alt-West will be the dominant subset of the Alt-Right.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 10:34 AM  

I don't think anyone is completely disavowing what the alt-lite has done, there is real admiration here. Just projecting what history tends to do with such organizations and why.

Blogger VFM #7191 April 29, 2017 10:37 AM  

Shane Sullivan wrote:They demand that Trump institute policies that solely benefit whites while simultaneously ignoring American interests overseas in order to implement them; they fail to accept that they won't get their "nice white country" without bloodshed because in reality they live in a multiracial state at the center of an global empire.

Nonsense. The alt-right are the only people who do understand this. The civic nationalists still think political solutions within the current system are possible. They are blind to the severity of the problem, not those of us on the alt-right.

The small hope with Trump was that he was really as radical as he portrayed himself on the campaign trail. I never expected him to Make America Great Again, because the system as it stands cannot be saved. What I hoped was that he might go Andrew Jackson on the place and start blowing things up.

But it's clear at this point that that's not the Trump we're going to get. He's going to be another go along to get along Republican president who at most slows down the decay slightly on the margins for 4-8 years before the Democrats take over again (this time probably permanently). Which is fine, in the sense that I'd rather have that than Hillary Clinton.

But "typical Republican" is nothing to get excited about. I hope Trump can still do some good things for us. But a wrecking ball he is not.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 10:37 AM  

"The Alt-West will be the dominant subset of the Alt-Right. "

because Alt-West is the most realistic. We're not going to purge blacks from the US. It isnt' going to happen.

But we can move to a system of voluntary segregation and let human nature handle the rest.

Blogger 1337kestrel April 29, 2017 10:37 AM  

Regardless, race mixing is tolerable and even desirable, to homogenize a population once it has been segregated the "correct" amount.

Yeah, the mixed children may be worse off in some senses.

I suppose my point is that someone with an Asian wife could be perfectly consistent in calling for deportation of all non-mixed Asians, Hispanics, etc. His Hapa kids will be much better off as unique snowflakes because white society will accommodate a few mixed individuals, but not an onslaught.

Genetically, race mixing doesn't actually change the relative proportions of each race's DNA in the gene pool. That's a simplistic way of looking at it, but it should assuage racists to an extent.

I say it's desirable on the level of a small percent per generation because of gene transfer. Too much is bad. None is suboptimal.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 10:42 AM  

"There was some confusion in the morning bc they were telling people that "the neo-nazis" had been arrested, giving the impression it was Nathan's group. Turns out they use neo-nazi as an all-purpose slur and it was actually Antifa who were arrested."

This not only bad/ confusing rhetoric, it's an inversion of the truth in more objective terms (of course). The main antifa group behind the riots in Berkeley has been BAMN, which was previously called, literally, the Trotskyist League, and before that, the Revolutionary Workers League.

What's so hard about referring to Communists as Communists? Are they worried about muh "McCarthyism?" Or just too caught up in the progressive mindset, so that they're unable to conceive of the possibility of calling someone or something evil without invoking the officially-designated demons of the progressive cult?

Chapman makes a good meme, and apparently a decent leader at the tactical level, but a thought leader/ political leader he's not.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 10:42 AM  

I would like to point out that louise Farakhan does not get the mic at the Democratic National Convention.

No one accuses the democrats of ostracizing the Nation of Islam or disavowing their extremists.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 10:45 AM  

Francis Parker Yockey,

Antifa are literally Neo-Nazis. Look at their logo versus the logo of the actual SA. Matt Bracken posted a side by side comparison.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 10:46 AM  

@99 THANK YOU!!!!! Segregation is neither a bad word nor practice! Let's say it again: Segregation is neither a bad word nor practice!

Black folks and White folks can live in harmony and be peaceful..... as long we have our own separate communities and institutions. And if you dudes want to go across town to the Soul Food restaurant and spend your money, that's okay. It might be kinda like that scene in "Animal House" where the frat bros go to see Otis Day and the Nights at the Black club. Otis Day was weirded out by that but, to his credit, his reaction was restrained.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 10:48 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 29, 2017 10:48 AM  

@98 You say "nonsense", but have you checked out the twitter feeds of people like Richard Spencer, RamZPaul, and their followers; just one endless cavalcade since the Syria Strike of "Trump betrayed us" or "Trump cucked"; although I'm not sure how Trump betrayed them when he was never with them to begin with.

I wouldn't say "I'm excited" about Trump being a typical Republican, but as we've both said, that's a far better outcome then a Hillary presidency.

Blogger VFM #7191 April 29, 2017 10:49 AM  

Nate wrote:I would like to point out that louise Farakhan does not get the mic at the Democratic National Convention.

No one accuses the democrats of ostracizing the Nation of Islam or disavowing their extremists.


On the other hand, Nathan Damigo is hardly the right-wing equivalent of Louis Farrakhan. Yes, he's an ethnonationalist. But he's "clean cut" and carefully spoken. He's hardly a skinhead NatSoc. Plus, he's proven adequate in punching communists in the streets.

If Damigo is unacceptable, then they won't let any truly alt-right figure speak.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 10:52 AM  

Belay my last. I was mistaken.

Blogger ZhukovG April 29, 2017 10:52 AM  

@Al From Bay Shore: Always remember, Tis better to be at the back of the bus than under the bus.

Blogger VFM #7191 April 29, 2017 10:54 AM  

Shane Sullivan wrote:You say "nonsense", but have you checked out the twitter feeds of people like Richard Spencer, RamZPaul, and their followers; just one endless cavalcade since the Syria Strike of "Trump betrayed us" or "Trump cucked"; although I'm not sure how Trump betrayed them when he was never with them to begin with.

No, I agree that the anti-Trump sentiment from some of these people is over the top. They expected too much out of him. Still, I do understand their disappointment.

Anonymous LES April 29, 2017 10:56 AM  

I understand that antifa is anti-Trump, anti-Trump supporters and are greatly upset that their side lost the presidential election. What I don't understand is what are they fighting for? What is their motivation or goal for being willing to fight in the streets? Aside from throwing a tantrum I can't see any purpose for their efforts.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 10:58 AM  

LES, they just want to resist and cause chaos.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 10:58 AM  

111. LES

They are being paid.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 10:59 AM  

"I believe (for what it's worth) that identifying the group Antifa as 'fascist', which it truly is and by a number of metrics, is HUGELY important here.*"

Ah, the "No, you're the REAL fascists!" approach. Yeah, that's gonna work. What's wrong with "Communist?" Or "antifag?" Or (a little more esoteric) "Twink ninja?" Or you can always point out that "antifa" is an abbreviation for "anti-First Amendment."

Blogger Markku April 29, 2017 10:59 AM  

LES wrote:I can't see any purpose for their efforts.

The purpose is communism. https://infogalactic.com/info/Antifaschistische_Aktion

May 1932 the communist paramilitary organisation Rotfrontkämpferbund had been banned and after a fight between Nazi and Communist members of parliament the Antifaschistische Aktion was created to ensure that the communists could have a militant organisation to rival the paramilitary organisations of the Nazis.

OpenID paworldandtimes April 29, 2017 11:00 AM  

W/B voluntary segregation in North America wouldn't be a case of Czechs and Slovaks going their separate ways, because the level of functionality and comfort generated by White communities is not equivalent to that of blacks'.

No Black on this planet would voluntarily separate from Whites, given that his standard of living would drop to African levels of violence, filth, infant mortality, and dieoffs within two days of separation.

Unless brutally enforced, voluntary segregation would be like trying to keep mice away from grain. White-run reservations for blacks would be another realistic model.

PA

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 11:00 AM  

@109 In the case of the proverbial bus, I indulge in nuance. I think the Montgomery boycotts were reasonable but the lunch counter sit ins and the Freedom Rides were not. The Montgomery Bus Boycotts were about Black people using their own resources to exact change. I'll admit that they should have leveraged this circumstance to create a Black owned means of transportation. At any rate, the Sit-Ins and the Freedom Rides seem to me to be about demanding something from others with no intention towards "doing for self". Perhaps I am biased but the photos from the bus boycotts are all Black whereas those from the Freedom Rides and Sit Ins seem to indicate involvement of white liberals. There is more to say but I'll stop here so as not to appear racist.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 11:01 AM  

PA, we could call them plantations.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 11:02 AM  

And, the antifa lead meaningless live, so the riots give them quasi-meaning. Lack of religion tends to go that way. Not always, but often.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:04 AM  

The problem here is most of you... damn near all I wager... have no experience in this stuff directly.

This is not about optics. This is about keeping destructive and harmful people away from where the real work is being done.

if you are building a house and a bunch of volunteer arsonists show up... do you accept their help?

no. You don't.

And its not because you are scared someone is going to call you an arsonist.

Its because you don't want them burning down what you're trying to build.

Look we have a history with these people. Oathkeepers has a history with these people. They range from deliberately malignant to well-intentioned but amazingly stupid. They can't control their emotions they don't work well with others and they damn sure don't follow instructions.

They are not part of a team.

That's why we don't want them around.

Blogger VFM #7191 April 29, 2017 11:06 AM  

The right will have about as much success with "antifa are the REAL fascists!" as they did with "dems are the real racists."

Just continue making antifa a dirty word. Or call them commies.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 29, 2017 11:08 AM  

The alt-Right (alt-White)

Trying to slip a fast one past us?

But it sounds like some of the organizers have bought into that Left/media narrative. Could be a temporary misconception and they'll learn better from Alt-Righters in their groups. We'll see.

Given the general civic nationalism of the crowd, I'd say their concerns are overblown anyway. If they let someone have a turn at the mic and he starts ranting about Jews and making Nazi salutes, the crowd will shout him down and you move on. Yeah, yeah, the media will film it and portray you as a bunch of Nazis, but they were going to do that anyway.

Speaking of that, I was wondering about the Nazi admirers we hear so much from. After all, Antifa are explicity anti-Nazi, and have been bragging about how they're going to punch Nazis. So if you're a Nazi sympathizer of some sort, this is your moment, right?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 11:09 AM  

To buttress what Nate said about these people, think Farva from Super Troopers.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:09 AM  

"Black folks and White folks can live in harmony and be peaceful..... as long we have our own separate communities and institutions. And if you dudes want to go across town to the Soul Food restaurant and spend your money, that's okay."

its actually even better than that. When people are allowed to live in segregated communities... naturally neutral commercial areas are very easy to maintain. because everyone can tolerate everyone for a couple hours in public when they get to spend all their time at home with people like them.

it works amazingly well. We see it down here all the time because we still have segregated communities. It doesn't work in the desegregated schools because the kids are forced to spend to much time together.

Anonymous johnc April 29, 2017 11:10 AM  

I read an article at TDS yesterday making similar points. In their view the alt-lite will soon collapse (due to disillusionment) and that most of that group will move to the alt-right to find better solutions.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:10 AM  

"Just continue making antifa a dirty word. Or call them commies."

their commies. everyone knows they are commies. That's why commies works better against them than anything else. Hell they call each other comrad

Blogger Markku April 29, 2017 11:11 AM  

You know, as I arrived at the Austin Ilkmoot, Stg58 had ONLY JUST had to swat down a disruptive Alt-Whiter at an OK meeting on that very same day. He was, shall we say, a tad annoyed.

What I'm saying is, there's a history.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 11:12 AM  

That's why the helicopter ride memes work against them. Because they know they are commies.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:13 AM  

"What I'm saying is, there's a history."

there is a history. a long history. and its an ugly one. These people have destroyed more good works than our enemies have.

Anonymous glosoli April 29, 2017 11:14 AM  

It's worth being aware of the Tytler cycle. We still have to go through the 'bondage/tyranny' phase yet, before we emerge victorious and with liberty, and a renewed awareness of God.
So, there will be bondage and tyranny, before the Right win eventually. Then it all starts again.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2RPpZZu2a-o/UAyaE6xk6XI/AAAAAAAAAPc/uccgjmZKbGI/s640/Tytler+cycle+cdr+modified+071712.jpg

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:15 AM  

now... we can have a discussion about weather OK and MOTW are painting with to broad a brush. As some have said... Nathan Domingo is not louis farakhan. fine. Just understand where we are coming from. This is not about making sure people still like us at cocktail parties like it was with Bill Buckley.

Blogger VFM #7191 April 29, 2017 11:16 AM  

Nate wrote:their commies.

I know they are. Which is why it annoys me when otherwise well-meaning right-wingers call them fascists. Not only is it shitty, unproductive rhetoric that accepts the left's moral frame that a "fascist" is the worst thing you can be, but it once again lets communism off the hook.

Anonymous BBGKB April 29, 2017 11:17 AM  

Something to cheer people up.

any chance these people will learn?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/fyre-festival-instagram-friendly-music-event-12000-tickets-turns/

"muggers and thieves laying in wait to steal wallets from trust fund kids, unhelpful staff, andgourmet cuisine" that turned out to be nothing but ham and cheese sandwiches"

Oh Schadenfreude , Oh Schadenfreude!
Thy pleasure’s so unchanging
Oh Schadenfreude , Oh Schadenfreude,
Thy joys are so amazing
Not only do you give me cheer,
But warm my heart so cold and drear.
Oh Schadenfreude , Oh Schadenfreude,
Thy joys are so amazing
Oh Schadenfreude , Oh Schadenfreude,
Such pleasure do you bring me!
Oh Schadenfreude , Oh Schadenfreude,
Such pleasure do you bring me!
For every time a Lefty sees
The face of stark reality
Oh Schadenfreude , Oh Schadenfreude,
Such pleasure do you bring me!

Blogger Brian H April 29, 2017 11:20 AM  

I'm still not seeing the huge distinction between alt-west and alt- white if both are supposed to acknowledge racial differences. Western civilization can't exist without whites and without overt promotion of their culture and prosperity.

Can someone explain this better? Seems to me that the normie wouldn't see much difference.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:20 AM  

"I know they are. Which is why it annoys me when otherwise well-meaning right-wingers call them fascists"

yep. "NO YOU'RE THE REAL FASCIST!" is just useless as "democrats are the real racists!"

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:21 AM  

"Can someone explain this better? Seems to me that the normie wouldn't see much difference."

alt-white dreams of a nation entirely of white people where only the tiniest of minorities are left and they are not citizens.


Alt-West is not retarded.

That's the difference.

Blogger VFM #7191 April 29, 2017 11:22 AM  

Nate wrote:now... we can have a discussion about weather OK and MOTW are painting with to broad a brush. As some have said... Nathan Domingo is not louis farakhan. fine. Just understand where we are coming from. This is not about making sure people still like us at cocktail parties like it was with Bill Buckley.



Fair enough.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 11:23 AM  

@LES

"I understand that antifa is anti-Trump, anti-Trump supporters and are greatly upset that their side lost the presidential election. What I don't understand is what are they fighting for?"

Probably a combination of:
1. Kids who just want to riot and break sh!t, without having to suffer any consequences for it (as they have the tacit backing of the progressive establishment).
2. (((Communist))) leaders like Shanta Driver, Tania Kappner, Donna Stern, etc.
3. Indoctrinated, true-believing idealistic college kids who actually think that they're fighting against "the establishment," rather than for it.
4. Middle school and high school kids groomed/ recruited/ coerced into BAMN (mostly in Detroit, where BAMN is based). See secetsurvivorsofbamn.wordpress.com for stories of some of those who escaped.
Looks like they changed the above blog to "protected," so archive.is/ArH3k or
archive.is/pbRAL
etc.
Or archive.is/tJcHx for one individual's account.
5. $ (as tuberman said)

Anonymous Walter Oleg April 29, 2017 11:23 AM  

Avalanche wrote:@17 " I propose splicing their DNA with pigs"

What did pigs ever do to you?! Are you a moslem or something? "Mix" 'em with the cockroaches they resemble!! Pigs = bacon = goodness!


I am man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Cockroaches it is.

Anonymous badhairday April 29, 2017 11:25 AM  

88. tuberman & 93. tuberman

Yup, it seems to happen over and over again.
It starts with 'He's useful for now. We'll just remove him when we're ready.' and ends in 'How did that mad bastard get into power? - as soon as I get out of the concentration camp I'll sit right down and write a strongly worded letter...'

Identity politics provides a ladder for sociopaths to climb. Since we can't get rid of sociopaths, can I suggest that we at least try to keep the 'us and them' out of the Alt-spectrum?

Anonymous Bobby Farr April 29, 2017 11:28 AM  

It isn't clear from this report where actual nationalists fit into the mix, if anywhere. It gives the impression there are magic dirt supporters on one side and pan-White Spencer-style racialists on the other.

Anonymous glosoli April 29, 2017 11:28 AM  

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2RPpZZu2a-o/UAyaE6xk6XI/AAAAAAAAAPc/uccgjmZKbGI/s640/Tytler+cycle+cdr+modified+071712.jpg

Already happened:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2515969/Humans-evolved-female-chimpanzee-mated-pig-Extraordinary-claim-American-geneticist.html

Macroevolution.net Fascinating stuff.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:28 AM  

"What I don't understand is what are they fighting for?"

No one hates nazis and fascists more than commies.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 11:29 AM  

For you dudes mentioning Louis Farrakhan, I might suggest that you explore the exchange between Elijah Muhammad of the Nation of Islam and J.B. Stoner of the Ku Klux Klan. For some reason, Elijah Muhammad saw fit to include Stoner's letter in his book "Message to the Black Man." Something that stands out in Stoner's letter is this:

"You blacks have a lower opinion of your own race than we whites have. You hate, yes hate your own African race so much that you want to destroy it by mixing your blood with white blood. You want white blood pumped into your race because you think white blood is better and will improve you and make you less negroid, less African."

A bit of context is necessary. The Nation of Islam, and other Black nationalists, have a habit of trolling Black integrationists. I am of the opinion that Elijah Muhammad did this as a means of identifying the self loathing pathology that was a core element of integrationist philosophies.

Blogger ZhukovG April 29, 2017 11:30 AM  

@Al From Bay Shore: I agree completely. I don't pretend to be an expert on the Civil Rights Movement, but it seems that the movement started with Blacks using their independent economic strength. Then White Leftists decided to destroy that independence while pretending to be your friends.

Blogger Lazarus April 29, 2017 11:30 AM  

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:Probably a combination of:

You forgot 6. Normalizing Pedophelia. BAMN has connections with NAMBLA

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 11:33 AM  

"For you dudes mentioning Louis Farrakhan, I might suggest that you explore the exchange between Elijah Muhammad of the Nation of Islam and J.B. Stoner of the Ku Klux Klan."

I didn't bring him up to call him bad or evil. I brought him up because he is an example of the extreme radical left of american politics. (though yes... in terms of biodiversity he is actually on the right)

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 11:35 AM  

@115

See also:

https://infogalactic.com/info/United_front

Blogger Brian H April 29, 2017 11:36 AM  

I definitely get what you're saying. It just seems like the idea of an alt-west future needs to be more defined. For its faults, its just more straightforward to understand the alt-white position, where an alt-west
arrangement seems to require more complexity. Who votes for what, etc.

It may have been somewhere in these pages already but I just missed it.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 11:45 AM  

@103

Your complete failure to even attempt to refute my point about the origins of the specific antifa Communist group behind the Berkeley attacks speaks for itself. Just Google the names of the groups involved. It's not hard.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 11:46 AM  

@147 I should have clarified my commentary. I like Farrakhan but I also believe that folks are free to disagree with him. But I also agree that Farrakhan, at some point, started to indulge in Leftist politics. I pick and choose the elements of Farrakhan's rhetoric to adopt. I mentioned Elijah Muhammad because it was Muhammad who taught Farrakhan. It might be incumbent upon me to explore this further. There was a split after Muhammad died. The Lost Found Nation of Islam formed under the leadership of Silas Muhammad. Silas claimed to embody the true vision of Elijah Muhammad. I don't know enough about this. What I do know is that the Nation did appeal to Black leftists. At one time, I was one of them. I went so far as to receive my "X". That was a long time ago.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 11:47 AM  

@150 Francis read down five comments @108.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 11:48 AM  

I think I said too much.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother April 29, 2017 11:50 AM  

Francis Parker Yosey don't get your panties in a wad.

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 11:50 AM  

For crying out loud the moderates are attacking Oathkeepers for helping the guys in Pikeville... and now you guys want to attack them from the otherside.

From the emailer's perspective, it looks like they're the ones doing the attacking. Look, no one understands better than I do the importance of not letting the crazies take over, but the mistake they are making is assuming they can make a single mass judgment about who is crazy and counterproductive, and who is not.

I don't mass ban people from the comments here. Everyone gets judged individually. Once you get into the game of "we don't want to associate with anyone associated with X" game, you've set yourself up for easy manipulation. I'm not concerned, regardless, because IF the Alt-Lite is playing a Buckley-style control game, they'll rapidly become irrelevant.

And the Alt-White is rapidly becoming more irrelevant all the time as the Alt-Right grows. The Swastika Panties won't survive the necessary splits between white nationalism and European nationalism on the one hand and between omni-nationalism and Teutonic supremacist imperialism on the other.

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 11:51 AM  

It just seems like the idea of an alt-west future needs to be more defined.

Don't be ridiculous. That's like saying Marx needed to better define the Worker's Paradise before anyone would adopt Communism.

Anonymous Teapartydoc April 29, 2017 11:54 AM  

The answer on the question of the Mic is to say that no one controls it. We don't even know who brought it.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 29, 2017 11:55 AM  

It just seems like the idea of an alt-west future needs to be more defined.

You mean you want it to be more defined, or defined differently that what you've seen so far. But it doesn't need to be.

Blogger Markku April 29, 2017 12:00 PM  

Alt-West doesn't need to be defined because the two groups will gravitate towards each other organically, with EXTREMELY little overlap. The common factor is that for Alt-West, Christianity is the ultimate end.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 12:00 PM  

@Lazarus

"You forgot 6. Normalizing Pedophelia. BAMN has connections with NAMBLA"

Excellent point. It's great to use as rhetoric, and when you combine it with their typical recruitment techniques (that focus on minors, and on separating them from their families), and cult-like atmosphere, it's pretty disturbing.

I recall seeing something about BAMN demonstrating against enforcement of child prostitution laws, as well (can't seem to locate the link). This sort of thing is usually framed as "Oh, it's so MEAN to arrest "underage sex workers!" Why don't the cops arrest the johns instead!" Ignoring, of course, the simple fact that, if you can't arrest underage prostitutes, you can't get them away from the pimps.


The Spartacus League/ ICL (another group of Trots) is better-known historically for their association with/ support for NAMBLA than is the BAMN/ Trotskyist League/ Revolutionary Workers League nexus, but their are clear BAMN connections as well.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/28/documents-tie-berkeley-riot-organizers-to-pro-pedophilia-group-nambla/

Blogger bosscauser April 29, 2017 12:01 PM  

Touche

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 12:02 PM  

@106

That's "Spartacist League."

Blogger Cail Corishev April 29, 2017 12:03 PM  

What I'm saying is, there's a history.

We don't call them alt-retard just because it's funny.

However, this was a special case: a free speech rally with the explicit theme of "No one should be prevented from speaking in a public forum because someone finds it offensive." You undermine that if you then say, "except you, you, and you, because we think you'll say offensive and destructive things."

By all means keep them out of organizations and conventions; but if you're going to hold a free speech rally, you kinda have to give them their turn and accept that they're going to 'tard it up for a bit.

I wonder: if an Antifa leader had respectfully asked to come on stage and debate Southern or McInnes, would they have allowed that? For that matter, would they have allowed Louis Farrakhan a turn? I'm not sure, but I think the answer is yes (and that would be my answer too, at a free speech rally).

This is not about making sure people still like us at cocktail parties like it was with Bill Buckley.

I know that's true, because I know you and others who can vouch for them. If I didn't, I don't know how I could tell the difference, though. I can't blame people who aren't clued in if they think it looks like the same old cucking. They'll have to see over time that it's not.

Blogger bosscauser April 29, 2017 12:04 PM  

Bus boycott won...
Never apologize....

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger Markku April 29, 2017 12:04 PM  

I know that's true, because I know you and others who can vouch for them. If I didn't, I don't know how I could tell the difference, though.

I agree with this 100%

Blogger bosscauser April 29, 2017 12:05 PM  

Next time they show up tell them so!

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 12:07 PM  

@152

Stg58

Missed it. Glad to see that you understand now.

Blogger bosscauser April 29, 2017 12:08 PM  

Be more impressed if alt-right dressed in red and beat the snot of the little commies.

Make great TV. Which is more important than bagging on Oathkeepers on the front line...

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 12:10 PM  

I agree with this 100%

Likewise. It would be wise for those associated with Oathkeepers and Proud Boys to make it clear to them that the one thing they will not be able to survive is going the WFB-Tea Party route. That is a proven fail and most on the Alt-Right are well aware of it.

Anonymous Panzer Man April 29, 2017 12:13 PM  

Civic nationalism is a failure. It's based on the fatuous impression that all humans are 100% interchangeable. Since, in fact, they are NOT, civic nationalism is at best tepid wishful thinking, and at worst disguised convergence.

Those on the Alt-Lite WILL have to either shift rightwards to gain an actually coherent viewpoint, or be naturally resorbed back into the West-destroying amoebic mass of globalism. That doesn't mean they need to become Alt-White, but they'll definitely have to become Alt-White.

It's like in the English Civil War: "Declare, sir! Are you for King or Parliament?" You can't be both. At some point you've got to choose; the Alt-Lite is giving the impression of choosing Soros and globalism at the moment, but hopefully some of them will slant over in an actual Nationalist direction.

As for the outrage against Trump -- well, it's difficult to entirely blame those who feel let down. He was elected because he offered a certain platform; now it looks like he's reneging on that entire platform.

1. No more foreign wars: he's working at starting several now.
2. Build the Wall: now the Wall has been pushed back to next year or sometime, when they have funding.
3. No more refugees: Agrees to take refugees from Australia, doubles the number of refugees from Syria without so much as kicking up a fuss.
4. Get rid of DACA: now the "Dreamers" can stay as a "matter of heart."
5. Will get rid of sanctuary cities: Now offers a definition of sanctuary cities so weird and restrictive that none of the actual sanctuary cities count as sanctuary cities.

I don't particularly personally, but I can at least see why some people would be pretty upset about it. The main purpose of Trump was to shake up the Status Quo, which he did quite nicely. If he comes out of the White House arm in arm with Obama and Epstein, wearing a hammer and sickle shirt, it doesn't really matter because he's already blown the lid off everything --

-- and caused the Left to go full Spartacist. Their rabid frenzy will do the work now; Trump has served his purpose. Sure the Wall, deportations, etc. would be great, and hopefully he'll do them, but if he doesn't, it doesn't really matter any more.

"Antifa" is a great term for "antifa." They're also Commies, Commie Scum, etc. Historically, they're Spartacists, but only spergs will know that (guilty as charged, m'lord). But it's just stupid and confusing to call them Fascists and Neo-Nazis. Fascists are basically militant, hierarchal Nationalists; Commies/Antifa/Spartacists are militant internationalists and seekers of the nadirs of equality.

Don't confuse methods with goals; street fighting and suppression of the enemy's freedom of speech and assembly are NOT philosophical standpoints, they are methods used to achieve the victory of your specific philosophical viewpoint. It's like using artillery doesn't make you an American, a Frenchman, a Czech, a German, or a Chinese; it means you've got artillery support for your forces, no more and no less.

Calling them fascists and neo-nazis is BAD RHETORIC. You know why? Because the press and the Antifa call us, even the Alt-Lite, fascists and neo-nazis, too -- with a bigger megaphone. If they hear "You're the Nazi!" "No, you're the Nazi!" they'll end up not backing either side.

Rhetorically, you need to make a clear divide between US and THEM. They will never call us "antifa" or "America-hating commies." So RHETORICALLY, making a clear distinction between them and us is essential.

Expecting people to drill down to some nuanced definition of Nazi and figure out who the "real Nazis" are is super-sperg thinking. ANTIFA and COMMIE SCUM is good enough for them; let them continue to shriek "racist! Fascist! Sexist!" at us.

Anonymous Panzer Man April 29, 2017 12:16 PM  

*They'll definitely have to become Alt-Right.

Wish we could still delete our posts. I badly botched my second paragraph, dang it.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 12:16 PM  

@164 I have a mild ambivalence about the Montgomery Bus Boycotts. I agree with some aspects of it. At the same time, I also see it as a lost opportunity for Black folks to form their own platforms.... so to speak.

Often I would drop my wife off at her place of employment in Jamaica, Queens on my way to work. While on that drive, I noticed that an emergent Black owned "jitney" operation was underway. Folks would use vans to pick up people at the MTA bus stops and follow the bus routes and resulting stops. This was an epiphany regarding the squandered opportunity insofar as the Montgomery Bus Boycotts were concerned. In fact, this presents meaningful questions about the Civil Rights movement as a whole: Why didn't Black folks in that movement conclude that the formation of Black owned platforms based in the Black community were the answer? I think this to be a reasonable question. This question is a reason for my hostility to the Civil Rights Movement and integration.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 12:23 PM  

Just to add to my last commentary, I'm a bit angry at Black folks acceptance of the assumptions contained in Civil Rights philosophy. It formed dependency, and instead of identifying the flaws of that approach, they resort to excuses about racism. I could go on and on about this. Yeah, I'm a bit pissed at the decision making that ensued in the late 50s.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 12:23 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 12:32 PM  

@170

Excellent points overall.

"Rhetorically, you need to make a clear divide between US and THEM. They will never call us "antifa" or "America-hating commies." So RHETORICALLY, making a clear distinction between them and us is essential."

Exactly. What's so hard about saying something like "Communist criminals wearing masks attacked normal, patriotic Americans. Communists do this because they hate America and they hate free speech."

Blogger Brian H April 29, 2017 12:33 PM  

That makes sense, thanks. I do agree they'll largely wind up arriving at the same point anyway.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 12:37 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 12:38 PM  

@174 There is a divide between the Garveyites and the NAACP. The latter is DuBosian and the former is Bookerite. There are two competing narratives in the history of Black folks. Unfortunately, Booker T. did not like Marcus Garvey. Gotta explore that. At any rate, there exists substantive differences between strategies. Bookerite ideas were about economic empowerment whereas DuBoisian ideas were about social empowerment. The case of the latter relied on symbol whereas the case of former prioritized substance. I remember going to a Farrakhan speech in which the theme was "Politics Without Economics is Symbol Without Substance."

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 12:39 PM  

"Likewise. It would be wise for those associated with Oathkeepers and Proud Boys to make it clear to them that the one thing they will not be able to survive is going the WFB-Tea Party route. That is a proven fail and most on the Alt-Right are well aware of it."

well we've got a founder of Oath Keepers reading and commenting on this thread... and other dread ilk working at all levels in OK.

I cannot speak for Proud Boys.

Though I am plenty proud to see MOTW being called a fascist militia by Antifa.

Blogger tuberman April 29, 2017 12:41 PM  

163. Cail

"We don't call them alt-retard just because it's funny."

"However, this was a special case: a free speech rally with the explicit theme of "No one should be prevented from speaking in a public forum because someone finds it offensive." You undermine that if you then say, "except you, you, and you, because we think you'll say offensive and destructive things.""

^^^THIS^^^

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 29, 2017 12:43 PM  

Here is an excerpt from one of those Farrakhan speeches that expresses the Bookerite doctrine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iYHMaIRfto


Anonymous arw April 29, 2017 12:52 PM  

The alt-White is the largest subset for the simple fact that it's foundation is pro-White, pro-Western. What you're talking about is the alt-Reich segment which has no staying power and only marginal influence. The alt-West is largely non-sensical as a designator because both White and West are after the same thing. Reich is after a natsoc state which is never going to happen.

Anonymous arw April 29, 2017 1:00 PM  

You caught me. Seriously though, the whole point of the alt-Right is as a pro-White, pro-Western movement. To include other nationalisms defeats the purpose because only Whites cannot engage in nationalist sentiments without material consequences. The delineation is more useful as alt-West and alt-Reich since both are pro-White and only the alt-Reich faction is the one that West has a problem with.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable April 29, 2017 1:05 PM  

Al From Bay Shore wrote:@39 In my opinion, a consideration of size of the territory and population is important. I think a fatal flaw of the Constitution is the attempt to impose strong central governance upon a territory as vast and populated as the continental United States. It is entirely reasonable to predict a dissolution of the United States into 50 separate sovereign republics which may form into separate regional confederations.

The 14th Amendment has to go back. It doesn't belong here.

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 1:10 PM  

You caught me. Seriously though, the whole point of the alt-Right is as a pro-White, pro-Western movement. To include other nationalisms defeats the purpose because only Whites cannot engage in nationalist sentiments without material consequences.

You're wrong. If whites fight AGAINST everyone, they will lose. If they, and everyone else, fight together against the globalism that imperils them all, they, and everyone else, will win.

Blogger somercet April 29, 2017 1:12 PM  

Al From Bay Shore:

In fact, this presents meaningful questions about the Civil Rights movement as a whole: Why didn't Black folks in that movement conclude that the formation of Black owned platforms based in the Black community were the answer?

Because the world is full of jerks who lie. Some of these jerks want to hate Negroes but want other people to take the heat of this position ("It's not me, it's the State!"), or want to violate free association, so they suborned the state to pass laws governing the fronts and backs of buses, against the wishes of the bus owners.

Now those laws, passed to screw over one unpopular ethnic group, are being used to screw over another group that made itself unpopular, partly by... suborning the state into violating rights of free association.

As Vox said, "white supremacy" has yet to accumulate any evidence that it exists.

Blogger VD April 29, 2017 1:13 PM  

To include other nationalisms defeats the purpose because only Whites cannot engage in nationalist sentiments without material consequences.

More importantly, WHITE IS NOT A NATION. White is ONLY an identity in the USA. That is why "white nationalism" is so stupid. Most whites don't identify with it. They are Scottish nationalists, Irish nationalists, and so forth.

Anyone insisting on "white nationalism" will lose the vast majority of white people because that is not their identity. Hence the reference to "the European nations". A German is not a Pole is not an American is not a Swede is not an Italian.

Deal with it.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 29, 2017 1:22 PM  

@178

Just noticed the autocorrect to "Harvey" and deleted my "Reminds me of Marcus Garvey's reaction on first walking into the NAACP office." Shoulda left it up.

My (very superficial) understanding is that the Bookerites were more about economic empowerment, while Garvey was more a flat-out separatist.

Farrakhan has some interesting things to say, and you have to give the NoI some credit for "The Secret Relationship between Blacks and Jews," but the ideology does seem to inspire a disproportionate number of Zebra killings/ Washington sniper types.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 29, 2017 1:32 PM  

Nate, thanks for your input.

Would it be a lisstake to say that whomever organized/sponsored the events has primary responsibility and command? If supporters show up they must acquiesce some independence of action. Obviously, individual initiative is good but only if it advances the desired goal.

Blogger Nate April 29, 2017 1:35 PM  

"Would it be a lisstake to say that whomever organized/sponsored the events has primary responsibility and command?"

no.

We are primarily against Antifa. We are only there to counter and defeat Antifa. Thus... it is always our op.

Blogger JaimeInTexas April 29, 2017 1:36 PM  

IIRC, the local government put a stop to the alternative to busing created by the activists. Fewer bus riders were hurting fare revenue.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 29, 2017 1:45 PM  

@101 Francis Parker Yockey

Chapman makes a good meme, and apparently a decent leader at the tactical level, but a thought leader/ political leader he's not.
---

I listened to Chapmans speech. He referred to them as Commies.

Blogger Thurston Pilgrim April 29, 2017 1:48 PM  

Can someone tell me what "MPAI" stands for? Thanks.

Anonymous Urban II April 29, 2017 1:52 PM  

Appealing to the Truth is what ultimately matters.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 29, 2017 1:52 PM  

White is ONLY an identity in the USA.

I expect that as whites in America increasingly focus on their ethnic interests, they won't stop at "white." They'll go deeper into their heritage and start thinking of themselves as German-American, Polish-American, and so on -- and then start putting the emphasis more on the first word, the way other races already do.

That's already been of many Americans who take a lot of pride in their Irish heritage. My grandmother was less than half-Irish, but she visited the "Old Country" a few times, traced her family line back to there, and gave everyone Irish-themed gifts. There will be more of that, but from all whites. Not necessarily to the point of violence between whites, but I would be very surprised if we come together as one group against all non-whites. It's much more likely that you'll see increased segregation between the different white ethnicities (which, as JayMan and others have shown, are already more segregated than most people realize), at the same time as they segregate from non-whites. And that won't be a bad thing.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 29, 2017 1:52 PM  

@111 LES
I understand that antifa is anti-Trump, anti-Trump supporters and are greatly upset that their side lost the presidential election. What I don't understand is what are they fighting for? What is their motivation or goal for being willing to fight in the streets? Aside from throwing a tantrum I can't see any purpose for their efforts.
---

Soros destabilization

Anonymous Darwin is a Harsh Mistress April 29, 2017 1:54 PM  

Oath Keepers must scrupulously follow the law and avoid so-called "hate groups" (whether they are sympathetic or not) because they are active duty military or LEO and would be fired immediately should OK be itself tarred as a "hate group" by SPLC -- or should some converged affirmative action general or full bird colonel declare it so.

To be plain: OK members will lose their security clearances and their livelihood if they do not stick to the straight and narrow. Given their presence at Bunkerville and Malheur, they really have put their asses on the line for civil parity.

Blogger Shane Sullivan April 29, 2017 1:54 PM  

@187 This further delineates the future challenges that White Americans will face trying to establish a new national identity after the collapse of modern America.

Reading some of the earlier comments, I'd have to agree with the theory that mini republics will sprout up along State lines; I certainly feel a greater connection to my home state then any of the others.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 29, 2017 1:56 PM  

@120 Nate

Its because you don't want them burning down what you're trying to build.

Look we have a history with these people. Oathkeepers has a history with these people. They range from deliberately malignant to well-intentioned but amazingly stupid. They can't control their emotions they don't work well with others and they damn sure don't follow instructions.
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I am sadly learning this the hard way out there. And I come to the same conclusions.

Anonymous JamesD April 29, 2017 2:00 PM  

For the long game I agree with your article. Short term, OK and Alt-Knight are scoring big wins. Get back to psyops, which is not mind control. It boils down to legitimizing your side and delegitimizing the opponent. Antifa loses big and the Alt-Lite has come up winners.

Long term demographics added to the upcoming debt wipe out and it will come down to identity.

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