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Sunday, May 21, 2017

America's Indian heritage

A commenter at Steve Sailer's explains why Americans tend to feel differently about Indians than Central and South Americans, or Canadians, do:
In America, the Indians fought back with everything they had not for years, not for decades, not for generations, but for centuries.

And the resistance began at the beginning, so to speak, as they were whipping the Spanish at least as early as 1513, when the Timucua drove Ponce de Leon off near present-day St. Augustine, Fla., and later that year the Calusa drove him out of San Carlos Bay, Fla. Four years later Hernando de Cordoba’s fleet, returning from a campaign against the Maya, dropped anchor in San Carlos bay to replenish water and supplies, but their landing party was driven off by the Calusa, who were described as “very big men with very long bows and good arrows.”

Ponce de Leon and Cordoba returned to San Carlos Bay in 1521 with 200 soldiers, settlers and supplies to establish a colony. The Calusa again defeated and drove them off, killing both de Leon and Cordoba.

Then there was the disastrous Navaraez expedition into northern Florida in 1527 with 600 soldiers, where the Spanish crossbows were no match for the Indians 7-foot long bows, as thick as a man’s arm, that could penetrate six inches of wood at 200 yards. Only four Spaniards survived the catastrophe.

In 1539, Hernando de Soto, who had been Francisco Pizarro’s chief military adviser and among the 168 who conquered the Inca empire, and a veteran of 15 years of warring against south-of-the Rio Grande Indians, landed in Tampa Bay with 330 infantry and 270 cavalry, most veterans of the Spanish conquests in the south. They had given up European armor and adopted Aztec quilted cotton armor covered with leather as more effective protection.

They marched north reaching the Choctaw town of Mabila on the present site of Selma, Ala., which they assaulted and took after prolonged fighting, estimated having killed 2,500 inhabitants. But no Indian surrender ensued. Instead, they forced the Spaniards to retreat and harried them, the Chickasaw attacking and burning de Soto’s winter camp, inflicting severe losses. Ultimately, only about half of de Soto’s force survived the expedition — not including him.

And so it went for hundreds of years, into the 20th century, if we count the 1911 Shoshone uprising, which was not called a “war” but a “riot,” as nomenclature was changed after Wounded Knee.

It is remarkable that some 350 years after the Calusa crushed Ponce de Leon and Cordoba, the Sioux defeated Crook and annihilated Custer.

So the American Indian earned respect and a place in our history that he does not have in Latin America or Canada. That’s even reflected in our language. Only the American armed forces to this day speak of going into Indian Country, and mean it ominously. Only American paratroopers legendarily shout “Geronimo!” as they leap from airplanes. Only a famous American general was named after an Indian. We speak of being off the reservation, and on the warpath. We Indian wrestle and walk Indian file. Indians are a part of, in today’s parlance, who we are in a way they are not in Canada or Latin America.
I find it fascinating that Indian ancestry is so respected that some whites will even attempt to deny that those they don't like could possible have any. In any event, the Indian experience is one more factor that tends to separate the American colonist/settler from the later US immigrants.

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104 Comments:

Anonymous Looking Glass May 21, 2017 11:13 AM  

New someone who had a parent that was of Seminole descent.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Seminole_tribe

They will tell you, without any prompting, that they were the only Tribe to never be conquered by the USA. Without any prompting. And they're damn proud of it.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 21, 2017 11:17 AM  

I believe the late David Yaegley raised this point. The leftoid attacks on Indian names for sports teams, etc. demonstrate their ignorance of it.

Anonymous Philipp May 21, 2017 11:21 AM  

Interesting. It is rather similar to the very different attitudes of the white settlers in Australia and New Zealand to their respective native populations.

Blogger Shamgar May 21, 2017 11:29 AM  

Well, the whites intermarried with the indians in Latin American, hence mestizo. But this is true only mostly in Mexico and Peru. Hence the Mexican flag (a native symbol) and Peru where native languages are official. But it is also true that in all of Latin America, the indians are just second or even third class. In Mexico, to call someone an "indio" is an insult.
I can think of only one sport team in Mexico that uses natives in their nickname, but even here San Diego St. is called the Aztecs.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable May 21, 2017 11:36 AM  

I find it fascinating that Indian ancestry is so respected that some whites will even attempt to deny that those they don't like could possible have any.

#NotMyIndian

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 21, 2017 11:36 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab May 21, 2017 11:37 AM  

Funny thing is that our family and my mom's best friend left the reservation. My mom's friend claimed to be 'French Canadian' while my family was just generic 'white'.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab May 21, 2017 11:44 AM  

JaimeInTexas wrote:Do they live on their oen country? Which passport they isdue?

I understand what they are saying but they conquered and under fedgov rule.


Some tribes do issue passports that are accepted by other countries. Of course, the US does not accept them so the holders have an interesting time reentering the country.

Some tribes issue license plates. Since the feds supply so much of their funds they can't bait them too far and the example of a truly sovereign nation inside the US is simply too much.

Most tribes cannot function in the modern world without support. It would be interesting to see who makes if we do balkanize.

Blogger Dave May 21, 2017 11:44 AM  

Then there was the disastrous Navaraez expedition into northern Florida in 1527 with 600 soldiers, where the Spanish crossbows were no match for the Indians 7-foot long bows, as thick as a man’s arm, that could penetrate six inches of wood at 200 yards.

As I read this post, I was thinking Peter Grant could write a great story in this setting.

Anonymous Icicle May 21, 2017 11:48 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKJ0VoOSS8w

Footage of Vox from earlier today.

Make Vox Indian again!

Blogger Al From Bay Shore May 21, 2017 11:51 AM  

After reading this post, I am wondering what happened at Roanoke Island? Who is Croatan?

Anonymous p-dawg May 21, 2017 12:00 PM  

We don't sit "Indian-style" anymore, though. Now it's called "Criss-cross applesauce".

Blogger Al From Bay Shore May 21, 2017 12:03 PM  

From an old 11th grade social studies textbook published by a local company (AMSCO):

"In 1587, John White and 120 others from England landed in Roanoke Island, North Carolina, to establish a colony. After a month, White returned to England for supplies. When he returned to Roanoke in 1590, the colonists had disappeared. The only trace ever found of the 'lost colony' was the word 'Croatoan' - the name of a nearby island inhabited by friendly Indians."

Blogger Hugo Smith May 21, 2017 12:06 PM  

I've never understood the fascination with Indians. No group of people conquered and dominated by Europeans handled it worse than North American Indians. Even blacks were better at resisting. And white people who constantly talk about having Indian ancestry are annoying.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore May 21, 2017 12:13 PM  

@13 I cannot resist the poop. May Kek forgive me.

Resistance by minority groups, in my opinion, are qualitative. Resistance in the pre-Progressive eras are different from the post-Progressive eras. More to say but I'll stop here.

Blogger Alan Gould May 21, 2017 12:16 PM  

Totally. You don't mess with the Maori.

Anonymous David-093 May 21, 2017 12:21 PM  

My direct ancestor was involved in a minor war in New Netherlands with the Indians. He was so well respected by them they specifically chose him to negotiate peace terms and let him and his entire village go unharmed.

Americans have an emotional attachment to the Indians. It's why we name cities, regions, rivers, mountains, and entire states in their language. Newcomers and shitlibs have never understood this.

Blogger Hugo Smith May 21, 2017 12:22 PM  

@15

Why not? They'll beat you with bone clubs? Please. If they were so scary New Zealand wouldn't exist.

But I guess they get to lead that gay dance in rugby so it isn't a total loss.

Anonymous BBGKB May 21, 2017 12:23 PM  

I have only ever meet 2 other gays that would be willing to go camping, one of them was an Indian.

Yet not only have they fought past the Supreme Court ruling in favor of the Boy Scouts in 2000 to get to the boy cots, but this week a Jew judge ignored letter of law,& allowed a tranny to file first ever tranny ADA claim against of all things a hunting outfitter. Why would a tranny work at a place selling knives & guns? I have been to a Cabela's before but I am statistical outlier(not someone who came out as a liar)& prepper.

https://www.washingtonblade.com/2017/05/19/court-transgender-people-can-sue-ada/

Anonymous SDH May 21, 2017 12:24 PM  

Do they live on their oen country? Which passport they isdue?

The Iroquois have been issuing their own passports for almost a century.

Blogger Ingemar May 21, 2017 12:24 PM  

Pop culture likes to talk a lot about Black involvement in the US Civil War, but people neglect that Natives participated on both sides. Those that joined the Confederates did so because of fear that the Union would make a state out of the Oklahoma territory that was "gifted" to them. Which is exactly what happened.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore May 21, 2017 12:25 PM  

@16 Your family is from New York. Are they from the fine borough of Brooklyn?

Anonymous David-093 May 21, 2017 12:32 PM  

The settlement was in Staten Island, but the family settled permanently in north Jersey afterwards.

Anonymous Deplorable me May 21, 2017 12:35 PM  

I know the God Emperor has lots on his plate, but I really hope that he guts and overhauls BIA.

For all the SJW prattling, they never talk about BIA or the reservations ... maybe they'd pay attention if the tribes claim to be muslim

Blogger Sagramore May 21, 2017 12:40 PM  

My landlord is a Cree-Scot-Magyar, or as I call him, "Maple Syrup Vox."

Just a slight correctionand a note that a hell of a lot Mohawks join the USMC.

Anonymous Baseball Savant May 21, 2017 12:45 PM  

This might be silly to say but I remember as a kid playing "cowboys & indians" and I don't remember having any visceral negative reaction to being the indian from time to time. i don't remember any of my friends thinking this way too. i asked my mother about this as well and although she says she doesn't remember, she also said she never remembered me or my little friends complaining about having to be the indian at times. that might be faulty memory on mine and my mother's part, but i will say that i do remember that all of us thought being the 'indian' was pretty cool because we had a indian constume and little toy hatchets. plus if the indians would win we'd pretend to scalp the others which was different if the cowboys won because then we'd make believe shoot the indians.

i say all this to contrast it to how my kids and nephews view minorities. they have a visceral negative reaction to hispanics, indians (dot not feather), southeast asians and blacks. we homeschool so my sons and daughters are well aware of american indians and their role in north american history. and while they don't see any use for immigrants or blacks, there is a certain reverence they have for american indians.

i probably would have never thought about this had VD not written this post, but the more i think about it the more interesting it is to consider my children's attitudes about the subject. the kids don't play cowboys and indians, but they don't have a negative reaction to indians either and when we encounter them in literature, they seemingly like them quite a bit. a good example is the the indian "two dog" in Ralph Moody's book Little Britches. We read that as a family and my kids were very excited about two dog and were disappointed when he didn't show up in the 2nd book "Man of the Family". I think if a black/immigrant/hispanic would have shown up, they would have felt the book more disappointing.

Anonymous Icicle May 21, 2017 12:47 PM  

We should fix the alcohol problem with gene editing from CRISPR.

Unlike the retard Liberal social engineering, this will actually work.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 21, 2017 1:00 PM  

Before the white man came, the stronger, more capable tribes had taken the good land in North American and driven the weaker, less capable tribes south into the disease and insect ridden jungles.

Blogger g wood May 21, 2017 1:01 PM  

All Army helicopters are named after Indian tribes.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 21, 2017 1:12 PM  

Do they live on their own country? Which passport they issue?
I understand what they are saying but they are conquered and under fedgov rule.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 21, 2017 1:17 PM  

Are they under the Dept. Of Indian Affairs? Are they exempt from BATFE, OSHA, SocSec Admin/taxes, ADA, EPA, etc?

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 21, 2017 1:20 PM  

Then, the Buffalo Soldiers joined with the liberation movement

Blogger dienw May 21, 2017 1:40 PM  

the Indians 7-foot long bows, as thick as a man’s arm, that could penetrate six inches of wood at 200 yards.
Just how big did those Indians need to be in order to use those bows?
I have read articles which state that the eastern Indians were derived from the Phoenicians.

Blogger dienw May 21, 2017 1:42 PM  

We don't sit "Indian-style" anymore, though. Now it's called "Criss-cross applesauce".

No, we call it stretching.

Anonymous Eduardo May 21, 2017 1:59 PM  

Well Vox, The Portuguese and Spanish were pretty damn good in exterminating people. XD What a skill huh?

But Brazilian Indians are still around and being used by international institutions to rob land in Brazil, 1/3 of our country is in international hands, but is disguised as Reservations to Indians or Quilombolas.

But Vox, no dig at your heritage, but wasn't the whole Nice good 'ol savage idea one of the first Social Justice projects? You know, to attempt to give Justice to what was left of the Natives? Is this wrong?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 21, 2017 2:09 PM  

...wasn't the whole Nice good 'ol savage idea one of the first Social Justice projects? You know, to attempt to give Justice to what was left of the Natives? Is this wrong?

The Noble Savage myth was an early effort to discredit civilization and destroy Christianity. It had literally nothing to do with Indians themselves and everything to do with denying Original Sin.

Blogger glad2meetyou May 21, 2017 2:10 PM  

Interesting post. Love that red card.

Blogger Sheila4g May 21, 2017 2:14 PM  

Fascinating thread. I, too, never really thought about how America's Indians influenced our language. Are there any native Spanish speakers here who can opine about whether there are any Spanish phrases equivalent to ours {Indian Country, off the reservation, on the warpath, etc.}? FWIW, I still say sitting "Indian style." I remember my brother and his friends playing cowboys and Indians and, as Baseball Savant mentioned, no one ever complained. It gave the boys permission to be as violent, dangerous, or "savage" as they wished to be. While there's a certain degree of respect of Indians related to martial prowess and culture, it's still distinct from regarding them as an equal or civilized people. Of course, their present-day circumstances may well contribute to that.

Blogger Quilp May 21, 2017 2:19 PM  

Great piece - I remember being sent to the YMCA as a young boy, my brother & I, for "bean dinners". It was a a cheap, convenient way for parents to have their kids occupied on a Saturday afternoon. They would stick us all in a room, (after playing basketball or swimming etc), feed us beans and milk, and play movies about the Iroquois, the Mohawk..different tribes and people, but always American indian movies. We grew up seeing them as fearsome opponents, men who fought with knives, arrows, and tomahawks, that could still win out over muskets and bayonets, & cannons. Never once was it even suggested, by anyone, that we had replaced an inferior people.

PS, yeah, the "dinners" smelled even worse than you can imagine.

Blogger James Dixon May 21, 2017 2:21 PM  

I believe it was Louis L'Amour who said that the Apache were the best guerrilla fighters the world had ever know.

Blogger Cluebat Vanexodar May 21, 2017 2:23 PM  

They would be in a much better position today if they were not so susceptible to old world diseases. Smallpox conquered the Americas.

Blogger RobertT May 21, 2017 2:27 PM  

I have always taken pride in my Indian heritage. It is unfortunate that reservations have turned most tribes into sad reflections of their former selves.

Blogger Tom Kratman May 21, 2017 2:30 PM  

To a considerable extent the person Vox is quoting is mnaking the lefty error (except in their case its deliberate) of mixing all indians up as if the same people. No, the Indians did not fight us for centuries. No, no group of Indians fought us for centuries. They fought for a few decades, typically, before we crushed them. The Seminoles are unusual in that we never conquered them. On the other hand, they ended up with some swamp and stopped attack ours, too.

Blogger J Van Stry May 21, 2017 2:31 PM  

I'm part American Indian (though a small part, I admit). As a child, we were told -not- to talk about it or mention it (in the 60's) because my Aunt's in-laws had a lot of prejudice against Indians (half of their family had been killed in an Indian massacre a long time ago, and they were still carrying quite the grudge). There was also some other prejudice in some places out there as well.

It wasn't until much later, as adults, that my sister started looking into that part of our family. Apparently she was never very happy about having been told to 'shut up about it'. Of course most of the family who knew the details are now dead after so many years, so it hasn't been easy finding out about it, but we've done DNA testing and yes, the genes are definitely there.

At least nowadays, there is a lot less prejudice about it. But I really get tired of those people who want to cut all reference of American Indians out of our culture. They're not doing it because they like Indians. They're doing it because they still hate them.

Anonymous BBGKB May 21, 2017 2:32 PM  

Since Vox is from MN, how does he feel that he is not allowed to scalp but CUCKS rolled over on moslems being able to hack off body parts?
MN cucks roll over on FGM ban. #BanIslam
http://www.wnd.com/2017/05/minnesota-retreats-from-ban-on-female-genital-mutilation/

Blogger James Dixon May 21, 2017 2:38 PM  

> ...and a note that a hell of a lot Mohawks join the USMC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdNV9JX-Xi8

Blogger NathAn Schuster May 21, 2017 2:39 PM  

I recall that Donald Trump said some very negative things anout Native Americans. He didn't want to compete with Native American run casinoes. He even testified bofore s committee. I hope he changed his attitude about Native Americans since then.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 21, 2017 2:59 PM  

It is unfortunate that reservations have turned most tribes into sad reflections of their former selves.

@41 RobertT
Problem is, reservations tend to be in rural, out-of-the-way areas that don't even have the ability to support a good-size city.

Looking at it from the white man's standpoint, being on a reservation is okay if you're Amish or other hard-core rural off-the-grid type, but if you want to build an economy with modcons, it just doesn't work all that well.

Indians do of course have the right to live off the reservations, so you have, for example, a significant Sioux population in Rapid City S.D., but because they're a minority in the city, it's not quite the same.

Blogger Michael Maier May 21, 2017 3:03 PM  

J Van Stry wrote:I'm part American Indian (though a small part, I admit). As a child, we were told -not- to talk about it or mention it (in the 60's) because my Aunt's in-laws had a lot of prejudice against Indians (half of their family had been killed in an Indian massacre a long time ago, and they were still carrying quite the grudge). There was also some other prejudice in some places out there as well.

It wasn't until much later, as adults, that my sister started looking into that part of our family. Apparently she was never very happy about having been told to 'shut up about it'. Of course most of the family who knew the details are now dead after so many years, so it hasn't been easy finding out about it, but we've done DNA testing and yes, the genes are definitely there.

At least nowadays, there is a lot less prejudice about it. But I really get tired of those people who want to cut all reference of American Indians out of our culture. They're not doing it because they like Indians. They're doing it because they still hate them.


It looks more like the libtards just hate everything good about America and attack what the West does. Just because they're obnoxious and have a fig leaf to hide behind.

Blogger S1AL May 21, 2017 3:18 PM  

@VFM #7634

Don't overlook the fact that reservations are regulated by the federal government. And even by that low bar, poorly regulated. Innovation and ambition are throttled at every turn.

Anonymous RedJack May 21, 2017 3:54 PM  

Grew up near two Sioux rez's.

The best got out. Sometimes it was just mentally leaving the rez. A friend of mine came from a fairly successful farming family. Of course, the rest of the Omaha tribe hated them because they actually worked.

Still, I had a great many good experiences where I grew up. Playing Cowboy's and Indian's is different where everyone raises cattle and some of the kids were Sioux. We all wanted to be Indians, because playing what we worked at was no fun (Farmboys, not Cowboys, but we didn't know the difference).

Blogger g wood May 21, 2017 3:56 PM  

I always thought it was cool that Rambo was described as half German and half Apache.

Anonymous Rick W May 21, 2017 4:19 PM  

I read an article a long time ago ( Analog SF ? ) that noticed that the British empire behaved differently towards natives depending on the relative technology difference between the British and the natives. The Maori in New Zealand were close and were treated as near equals. The Australian aborigines were primitive and ignored or assimilated for their own good. American Indians and African tribes with lower technology were conquered and subjugated.

The author wondered if the relative technology difference would determine alien behavior when humans encounter extra-terrestrials.

Anonymous Rick W May 21, 2017 4:28 PM  

More on topic, I am 1/64 American Indian because long ago an ancestor named Prudence married an American Indian in New England. We don't know tribe or name of husband. My mother traced family back to the Great Migration of the 1630s. I am proud of the 1/64. Maybe I should claim it on the census forms.

Anonymous Rfvujm May 21, 2017 4:49 PM  

IIRC he didn't say anything negative. He basically just said "prove it" to being Indian, before receiving benefits regarding opening casinos specifically given to Indians.

But of course the cuck media would just say he disparaged a minority.

Anonymous Texas exile May 21, 2017 4:51 PM  

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the small but significant amount of cross breeding between whites and Indians in the founding stock of the US. From my reading of outdated history books, first hand accounts, there were many notable cases of so and so running off to "live among the Indians" and Indians who moved to white towns. So much so it was notable enough to record, but in more than one history book during an early Indian war when one of the Indians being shot at would yell "don't shoot! I'm so and so's kid."

Also many early notable families, especially in the Virginia area (which was the early cultural capital) married among the tribal chiefs families for political reasons.

I'd guess our country would look a lot more like Mexico without the continuing European immigrations.

Also there are many "family geneologies" where some great great ancestor was an Indian that may contribute to the fondness.

Blogger NathAn Schuster May 21, 2017 5:13 PM  

I read that the Army had to use Apaches to fight Apaches.

Blogger NathAn Schuster May 21, 2017 5:29 PM  

He said that there is a lot of crime on the reservations. It was a long time ago so maybe he changed.

Anonymous logprof May 21, 2017 5:41 PM  

That was a very insightful comment. I went to FSU for a while and I roll my eyes when someone calls the Seminoles and their mascot racist. The Seminoles were the only nation in the USA never to surrender to the white man. The student who currently plays Chief Osceola is himself a Seminole. Whoever has the role of Osceola has to have excellent horsemanship, since he has to ride an Appaloosa with no saddle or bridle, while carrying a flaming spear.

Blogger ant becker May 21, 2017 5:46 PM  

Being from the British homeland, i sort of see Indians as exotic like the Maori in New Zealand or the Aborigines in Australia. They fought us and we beat them by force of arms. That's where the respect comes from like the British fighting the Ghurkas in India. It's martial prowess.

When will Europeans be allowed to fight back against the new colonizers to European lands?

Blogger Esmar Tuek May 21, 2017 6:26 PM  

The aboriginals in Australia were totally dominated by the British, it was a different story with the Maori In New Zealand, they negotiated, as opposed to just submitting.

Anonymous Looking Glass May 21, 2017 6:36 PM  

@38 Quilp

The important thing is that the Indians weren't push overs. Groups of Indians were something to be *feared*. Indian raiding parties aren't some joke. Custer got himself killed. While the result was something of a foregone conclusion, Personal Property Rights is an amazing motivator, it would be over the course of centuries to play out.

Compare it against the way we talk about Arabs. We view them as so insanely pathetic that the "problems" have only not been dealt with because we're not allowed to. There's no sense of respect for their Valor and fearsome ability.

It puts into relief how insane the PC Cult's approach to any Indian named sports team is.

Blogger Esmar Tuek May 21, 2017 6:46 PM  

You take away a man's struggle, alcohol and other drugs soon replace the emptiness.

Blogger Esmar Tuek May 21, 2017 6:49 PM  

I don't thinks it's relative technology so much, although that is going to be an indication of IQ. It comes down to how organised and violent groups were, plus how smart they were in negotiations

Blogger RobM May 21, 2017 7:09 PM  

Makes me wonder too.. The war of 1812 sealed the fate of Indians in North America as much as anything. Most tribes picked the wrong side to fight for. The linchpin really, IMO of thinking about it. After the war, the "trust" was not only gone, but even willingness to live side by side east of the Mississippi. The Indian tribes in America were not monolithic, but the bad ones sure made the rest pay dearly.

The hispanics that now want to say we stole Texas from them... I laugh. Texas was unsuitable to drawing a breath for whitey or Spaniards/Mexicans... until settlers formed the Texas Rangers and took the fight to the Comanche in the 1830's.. my vote for the most brutal and fierce tribe.. they were without peer on a horse...

In my family history, we have a letter from back in the day describing how close my family tree almost was snuffed out. In Virginia in 1700's. Indians attacked family farm.. of 8, one 11 year old boy survived, only because as the indians attacked, his mother told the kids to run for it. It was dark out.. he made it to a dead tree, crawled inside and hid as he listen to the indians capture and murder and rape. He saw them take a sibling infant and smash it's head against a tree.. took his two young sisters and left all the adults dead and brutalized. If not for him , I would not be here, right? heh.

Blogger Cataline Sergius May 21, 2017 7:10 PM  

Odd little footnote. Native Americans still don't call themselves that in private.

They still call themselves Indians.

Anonymous Andrew Anglin May 21, 2017 7:14 PM  

as cucked a thread a I've ever seen on this site. There was no "America" when it was inhabited by 400 tribes of nomadic Asiatic savages running around naked, shooting arrows at each other, and living in holes in the ground covered with animal skins. The actual native Americans are the White colonists who hacked it out of a howling wilderness, along the way subduing the asiatic savages and chucking the survivors into concentration camps, a.k.a. "reservations".

minor factual caveat: the (briefly)-united northern Indian nations defeated only Custer (2/3 of whose force, Maj. Reno's and Capt. Benteen's commands, fought through and survived). Crook's much stronger comumn then came up, and routed and scattered the Sioux and their allies.

as to the Roanoke Colony: see Jill LePore's book. Most of these Whites were massacred by the "friendly" local Indians, a few who survived were enslaved and eventually bred-in. Their genetic traces have been found among said Indians.

Blogger Johnny May 21, 2017 7:17 PM  

Warfare between the natives in the Americas between the natives and the European invaders varied too much for any sweeping assumptions as to its character.

It is possible to make generalizations if it is restricted to the British colonials in North America. Once the European population got large enough they more or less always won, with only occasional and transitory losses.

Indians fought not for the tribe but for personal glory. In our current era their form of war would be called terrorism. It was small unit warfare attacking targets of opportunity and it was genecidal in nature. The effort was to exterminate the other tribe or drive it off, and that transferred directly to the Europeans.

The European response was typically to organize a European style army and confront the the Indians in numbers. The Indians could fight like this and sometimes did but only very poorly. Typically they ran off early before they took heavy casualities, and thus were not really damaged by the loss.

I suspect that much more commonly than got documented the whites beat the natives by going native in method. You don't take territory, you exterminate people. As a documented example, in New York the Indians sided with the British against the colonials. When the British pulled out the colonials took their revenge by attacking the Indians in the fall. As expected the Indians ran off. This was followd by the colonials destroying all the stuff the Indians had set aside for the winter. Other than knowing that the Indian populations went west, what happended next did not get documented, but it is all but certain that nearly all of them died of exposure over the first winter. It was a combination of winter, no food, no house, and in hostile Indian territory.

The big exception was the horse warriors of the plains. We ended up owning our southwest, to a considerable extent, because the Comanche tribe drove the Spanish out. Our better armed Yankee settlers fared better, but not a lot better. The horse warriors were a constant menace and not really conquered until deprived of their staple game, the Buffalo.

The Apache were tough nuts to crack all right, but the reason they were in Arizona was because the Comanche horse warriors had drove them out of their home territory, which was east Texas.

Blogger Technomad May 21, 2017 7:20 PM  

FWIW, Paraguay is the only place where an Indian language (Guarani, to be exact) is co-official with Spanish in all of Latin America.

Anonymous Just another commenter May 21, 2017 7:33 PM  

Not to mention:
AH-64 Apache attack helicopter
UH-60 Black Hawk utility helicopter
UH-72 Lakota utility helicopter
CH-47 Chinook heavy-lift transport helicopter
OH-58 Kiowa observation helicopter
OH-6 Cayuse observation helicopter
TH-67 Creek trainer helicopter
C-12 Huron transport aircraft
RU-21 Ute electronic intelligence aircraft, a variant of the C-12
BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missile

(and retired systems)
UH-1 Iroquois utility helicopter
H-34 Choctaw transport helicopter
RU-8 Seminole utility aircraft
H-21 Shawnee transport helicopter
OV-1 Mohawk twin-engine observation aircraft
T-41 Mescalero trainer aircraft

You don't name things after people you do not respect. The native Americans earned the respect of our military, so we honor them by naming things for them.

Anonymous Ersatz Manque May 21, 2017 8:38 PM  

So, when Geronimo leaped into battle, did he shout out "MYSELF!!" ?

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 21, 2017 9:33 PM  

Interesting and fun angle on Anglo-Indian relations. Respect through war.

Although, another angle is this: The Puritans had a completely different view of Indians from the Spanish and French.

True, during the Spanish conquests there were crimes and abuses along the way. Spanish conquest wasn't completely for evangelical purposes, after all. However, as a whole, Spain tried to view the Indians as human beings with a soul. For example, Queen Isabella tried to implement the dictates of Papal Bull of 1493 to the best of her ability, viewing their evangelization as a major responsibility. Natives were to be regarded as freemen as much as possible, and the conquistadors were even encouraged to intermarry with them. Bartolome de Las Casas was arguing for their human rights 200 years before the Whigs were holding up Rights of Englishmen in their propaganda.

The French, on the other hand, were pure evangelical. A great deal of the Natives loved the french Jesuit missionaries, though there were plenty of misunderstandings and slaughters by the natives. A few notable names that come to mind include Fr. Sebastian Rale, Fr. Pierre Biard, and French explorer Samuel de Champlain.

Then the Puritans came onto the scene, and they despised Catholicism. When they saw how the French and Spanish favored the Natives, their animosity towards Catholicism increased, and their animosity towards the Natives deepened to the point of viewing them as less than human. The Natives, in turn, began to despise the Puritan settlers. For example, the Abenaki tribe refused to accept Anglican Bibles or Protestant ministers into their midst. And then, of course, we have all those stories about Indian attacks.

Anonymous Anonymous May 21, 2017 10:09 PM  

I am Native American and white. Amd I talk about it. So I am "annoying" to you?
Seems a ridiculous thing to be annoyed about.

Anonymous Texas exile May 21, 2017 10:13 PM  

@64 RobM

The story of your ancestor is believable from what I've read.

@67 Johnny

From what I read in addition to organized forces of militias wiping out villages or us army against the plains Indians a lot of the hostilities was a daily guerilla war on both sides. If a horse went missing for instance or one family massacred the townsmen would kill any small unfamiliar Indian parties nearby on suspicion and keep doing it until they found the horse. From my reading when things went bad and something broke the peace the guerilla war went both ways, and that was probably more dangerous than the big mobilisations for certain tribes.

Also Johnny, the Comanches of history make ISIS look like amateurs. You know they're tough when they can drive out the fearsome Apache.

Anonymous Anonymous May 21, 2017 10:17 PM  

FWIW, Paraguay is the only place where an Indian language (Guarani, to be exact) is co-official with Spanish in all of Latin America."

Go there if you can. A lovely place with lovely women.

- JG Aboo

Anonymous Anonymous May 21, 2017 10:31 PM  

Nicely stated!!

Anonymous DonReynolds May 21, 2017 10:38 PM  

Anytime someone says that Americans have no experience fighting terrorism, or terrorists, or guerrilla warfare, or irregular formations, I remind them that we fought against some of the best from 1615 at Jamestown until the 20th century.....almost 400 years of the most bitter race war ever seen.
Only the Roman conquest of Spain or the Castilian Spanish driving out the Moors would be any European comparison.
To me, what makes the American soldier different....very different actually.....from the European soldier, is four centuries of learning to fight like an Indian.
For much of this country's history, there was no one else to learn from.

Anonymous Anonymous May 21, 2017 10:54 PM  

"...almost 400 years of the most bitter race war ever seen."

I know a cop in Philthy. Parts of that town can make the Tet Offensive look weak.

- JG Aboo

Anonymous DonReynolds May 21, 2017 10:58 PM  

There was a fundamental change that happened in the method of warfare against the Indians. Up to a certain point, the white settlers relied exclusively on defensive fortifications .... blockhouses and forts...as a refuge from Indian attacks.
At the first sign of warfare on the frontier, the settlers would scurry into the blockhouses and forts in order to secure the women and children, and concentrate their firepower. This was called the "trembling defense" and it was replaced by highly mobile formations that would "seek out and destroy".
This same fundamental change led to a similar change in military thinking as well, resulting in the US military being much more effective on offense than on defense.

Anonymous Anonymous May 21, 2017 11:02 PM  

For much of this country's history, there was no one else to learn from."

So you're telling me that Italian Americans haven't contributed to keeping this nation safe?

- JG Aboo

Blogger bobby May 21, 2017 11:46 PM  

Imagine that the entire white race was found only within the USA.

Imagine that the Chinese decided to come after us with everything they have, and won.

Imagine them going through our population and exterminating anyone smart enough to be a threat to them. Exterminating anyone strong enough to be a threat to them. Anyone free-spirited enough, freedom-loving enough, leader-like enough to be a threat to them.

Once they were done, the white race would become exactly like the present-day Native Americans. The gene pool would consist of those too weak, too dumb, too accepting to be a threat to anyone. They would be content to live on rural prison farms and long for the old days.

Here in Minnesota, I've spent my life amongst Indians, res and non-res, and you can clearly see that the best of their gene pool is long dead. Not because they weren't once strong, but because their strong people were wiped out.

It was the same with the American blacks. It wasn't the smartest or strongest ones who were captured in Africa and sold into slavery, and once they arrived here, any of them who posed a threat due to smarts or strength or will were killed, until their gene pool consisted of the losers.

The only way for a minority to survive a mixing with a majority is to assimilate before your strong people are wiped out. Many minorities did this and do well to this day.

We'll have to see how muslims handle this.

Anonymous Anonymous May 21, 2017 11:59 PM  

"You don't name things after people you do not respect."

Hence the lack of names like the Enzo K-89 HMG or the Pierre Light Rifle...

-JG Aboo

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener May 22, 2017 12:13 AM  

Once again we see that there is no disadvantage in fighting back.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener May 22, 2017 12:20 AM  

@2 The leftoid attacks on Indian names for sports teams, etc. demonstrate their ignorance of it.

In this rare instance I disagree with you, Gen. Kong. Indian mythology in our culture symbolizes everything the left hates - genuine freedom and masculinity. It isn't an accident that the left wants to do away with Redskins, Indians, and Chiefs while forcing athletes to wear pink bracelets.

Blogger Tatooine Sharpshooters' Club May 22, 2017 1:14 AM  

Is it earliest arrival or longest residence that creates a "native"? Seems an important point here, where the immigrant taint is held to be insoluble.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 22, 2017 1:48 AM  

@James Dixon

"I believe it was Louis L'Amour who said that the Apache were the best guerrilla fighters the world had ever know."

Still lost to the Comanches, though.

Anonymous TS May 22, 2017 4:14 AM  

Two big reasons Indians lost NA. No unity among the various tribes though some tried and fire water.

Anonymous Young Ned of the Hill May 22, 2017 4:25 AM  

Having dealt with Navajo and Inuit men in the military and construction, and Tlingit women in everyday circumstances, I can say that the fortunes of those who make it off the res seem to vary rather greatly, at least from what I've seen. But yeah...they fought, they lost, they shall (and should) be remembered.

Blogger heyjames4 May 22, 2017 8:08 AM  

Isn't one of the reasons for Pocohontas stories for WASPs to claim they inherited turtle island, not just conqured it?

Blogger James Dixon May 22, 2017 8:50 AM  

> Still lost to the Comanches, though.

Guerrilla fighting has its limitations.

Anonymous DaveInjustice May 22, 2017 9:26 AM  

And yet with all these military uprisings by the Native population, the only reasoning the modern person can find for military excursions against them is "Raciss".

Look at Andrew Jackson, a hated figure by the modern SJW. In his youth he served the cause in the Revolution, was captured and had his brother die of disease in captivity. Meanwhile the British used a strategy of alliances with Native tribes in order to destabilize outlying areas of the colonies (figured that if the Tribes were constantly raiding the men of those areas would be hesitant to leave and join the Colonials fighting for independence). Sure the tribes motives made sense, the Brits offered them their own independent country after it was all over, but doesn't change the fact that they mostly raided villages with no military value in themselves. Now if you were an American during that period and saw these tribes take advantage of the situation in such a way, how would YOU have been inclinded to deal with their continued military resistance?

Blogger VFM #7634 May 22, 2017 11:19 AM  

It was the same with the American blacks. It wasn't the smartest or strongest ones who were captured in Africa and sold into slavery, and once they arrived here, any of them who posed a threat due to smarts or strength or will were killed, until their gene pool consisted of the losers.

@81 bobby
Or it could be that African chieftains would willingly sell all their criminals, idiots, and ne'er-do-wells to the slavers.

Hence the present-day American groid.

Blogger Mr Darcy May 22, 2017 12:51 PM  

@56:

You wrote:

"Also many early notable families, especially in the Virginia area (which was the early cultural capital) married among the tribal chiefs families for political reasons."

I'm afraid you've grossly overstated this. The Jamestowne Society recognizes only one such marriage and one Indian ancestor among the "early notable families" of Virginia: Makota/Pocahontas/Rebecca (Mrs John) Rolfe:

http://www.jamestowne.org/qualifying-ancestors.html


Blogger Tom Kratman May 22, 2017 2:46 PM  

@77 "is four centuries of learning to fight like an Indian."

Largely self-serving myth. We don't really _fight_ like the Indians or no more than most anyone else does. Indeed, it wasn't until we learned to fight like Europeans that we were able to stand up to them and defeat them.

But we did learn savagery and viciousness, as we learned to spare neither age nor sex, deep in our cultural bones.

Course, we had a hefty dose of savagery already, too.

Anonymous Red Cabbage May 22, 2017 2:50 PM  

I remember my grandmother fidgeting and then complaining about her "Indian underwear." (They were creeping up on her.)

Jokes aside, we admired Indians and loved the legends about the local Susquehannock, who were said to be 7' tall and only wiped out by alcholism.

Anonymous Texas exile May 22, 2017 6:02 PM  

@94 Thanks for the correction.

Blogger xavier May 23, 2017 12:19 AM  

The southern Americans didn't resist?
That would be news to the Chileans and Aracundos who fought a 3 century on and off was and was only settled after independence.

And in Canada there'should a difference between the French and English colonists. Personally I think the French did a much better job.

There'a book by Ken Stark ( yeah that one from the Clinton tomes) who wrôte about the French Spanish and refusant English colonialism of North America. I'd like to read it as it sounds fascinating

Anonymous Genetics Define Indianism May 23, 2017 2:48 AM  

In honor of Sailer's post, I have crafted a haiku:

Sometimes Indians
Pretend to be Indian
For unclear reasons

Sometimes it helps to be Indian. Sometimes it helps to be Mexican. When being semi-white ceases to be helpful, you may want an exit strategy out of Europe. We'll be sinking boats by the flotilla and turning airplanes into firework displays over here, so maybe try reconnecting with your original Mongol steppe roots and reconnoiter in China.

Blogger John Byde May 23, 2017 4:33 AM  

Vox Day, the Elizabeth Warren of the alt-right!

Blogger Were-Puppy May 23, 2017 11:09 PM  

@54 Rick W
More on topic, I am 1/64 American Indian
---

I bet you've got a greater claim than Pokahonkey Warren

Blogger Were-Puppy May 23, 2017 11:11 PM  

@56 Texas exile
there were many notable cases of so and so running off to "live among the Indians"
---

That was called "going native"

Blogger Were-Puppy May 23, 2017 11:18 PM  

@68 Johnny
The Apache were tough nuts to crack all right,
---

I saw a lot of tombstones at boot hill that said "Killed by Apache"

Blogger Were-Puppy May 23, 2017 11:25 PM  

This post reminded me of a book I have, but haven't read yet. Our Savage Neighbors - How Indian War Transformed Early America by Peter Silver. I hope it's good.

Anonymous FAILBOAT May 26, 2017 3:14 PM  

From the perspective of my own tribe: Thanks whitey for bringing over the blacks, the smallpox, and the pollution. Hope you enjoy the corn. Are you sure you're going to be here in a hundred years? Demographic data is not looking good.

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