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Monday, May 01, 2017

Conservatives move right

The Z-man observes the very transformation I have been predicting for some time now as the bankruptcy of the conservative movement becomes more and more obvious to everyone on the Right:
The real lesson, the one most useful to the alt-right, is seeing the controlled opposition confirm what many have been pointing out for years now. As soon as things got a little tough, the College Republicans folded their tents and blamed the “extremists” of the alt-right. The Young American Foundation, a Conservative Inc. racket to recruit college students, made a show of “defending free speech” but made sure they did not offer any material support. It was just another way to raise money for their racket.

In contrast, a handful of rednecks down south were able to force Auburn to host the notorious Richard Spencer, a guy everyone seems to think is Hitler in a cardigan. They went to court and quickly forced the school to honor its legal obligations. They were also able to rally a security force and get the cops to enforce public order. The result being a peaceful and orderly event. Conservative Inc. has tens of millions in cash at their disposal and an army of elite educated lawyers and they could not even defend Coulter.

What they could do though, is attack Ann Coulter when she correctly pointed out that the summer soldiers of Conservative Inc ran and hid as soon as things got difficult. David French is a mentally unbalanced crackpot, but he does speak for the dwindling number of Buckley Conservatives, who claim to be the vanguard of anti-Progressive forces in America. French speaks for all of the so-called conservatives when he is more upset at Coulter’s noticing than he is at black clad thugs shutting down her speech.

The whole affair is insignificant in isolation, but it is a another reminder to those who have begun the journey away from Buckley Conservatism, Libertarianism and boomer politics that those well-paid heroes of the Right never win these fights. They invest so heavily in the symbolism of conservatism because they conserve nothing but their own place at Lefty’s table. At best they are well-intentioned losers. At worst, they are willing props deployed by the ruling orthodoxy to disrupt the opposition.

The people in the dissident movements are not without their problems and many of them are certainly nuts, but that’s the nature of outsider movements. What’s increasingly clear is the fact that it is the outsider movements who are scoring the victories. They are the people changing minds and forcing the the fight onto the turf of Lefty. It’s not the dorks in blue blazers mooning over photos of Reagan. It’s the guys with home made armor decorated with sun wheels and cartoon frogs.

The other day, an old friend, who was a “happy warrior” type, mostly in the libertarian wing of the Buckley Right, quoted Mike Cernovich to me. I cautioned him to not take everything Cerno says at face value and he responded with, “Hey, no enemies on the Right.” A year ago he probably would have sided with David French or at least frowned upon the alt-right guys raising hell. When given the choice between those who are not afraid to be called a heretic and those who live in fear of it, people naturally choose the former over the latter.
As I said in the Darkstream the other night, it's going to be very important for the Alt-Right to be patient and allow the civic nationalists, the conservatives, the libertarians, and those with various identity complications the time to process the information and work their way through the emotions that their senses of grief, loss, betrayal, and despair will likely inspire. It's natural for people to instinctively side with family over nation, even when that instinct is at war with what they know intellectually and can see happening all around them.

Ironically, the reasons behind the Alt-Lite's very rejection of the Alt-Right case often tend to materially support it.

As for the Alt-Retards who have been showing up here lately - and yes, I will use that term and permit use of it by the VFM and Dread Ilk here and here only as long as various Alt-Retards continue to violate the truce we had established with the Alt-White here - they provide the Alt-Right with an excellent model of what not to do and how not to win people over to your side. (Translation: don't use it on Twitter and Gab, or on your own sites, at least not yet.) Also, I should note that I will respond accordingly to Alt-Retards who attack me on Gab.

You'd think they would have learned their lesson, but then, if they were intelligent, they wouldn't be running around wearing swastika panties on their heads.

Anyhow, the more complicated one's identity, and the more ethnically and culturally intertwined one's family, the more frightening the global rise of nationalism is going to be, and the more "what about MEEEEE" is going to be sole perspective initially utilized to consider events. But eventually, reality will intrude, as it always does. Nothing we do or say or think is going to change the fact that liberalism has failed, conservativism has failed, civic nationalism has failed, multiculturalism has failed, and globalism has failed. Like feminism and communism, all five of these ideologies contained the seeds of their own destruction within themselves. Internal incoherency is why ideologies fail; we are merely observers of the inevitable failures.

The correct response is not to condemn adherents of these failed ideologies for their past choices, much less for who they are, but rather, to give them time to observe, understand, and accept the reality of the changing historical trends, and to calmly offer the viable alternative. No one capable of dialectic makes an ideological shift of this magnitude overnight; I didn't and you probably didn't either. So, be patient and be calm, no matter what ludicrous arguments or outrageous accusations they happen to make. It's not you with whom they are upset, it's just their denial speaking.

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322 Comments:

1 – 200 of 322 Newer› Newest»
Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 01, 2017 7:32 AM  

"Blood is thicker than water."

Blood comes first.

Blogger heyjames4 May 01, 2017 7:32 AM  

thank you for being the voice in the wilderness

Anonymous basementhomebrewer May 01, 2017 7:33 AM  

Good post and details my own process pretty well. I found my way here by way of Larry and Sad Puppy's 2. Started reading here and at first thought " This guy has some thought provoking posts but some of them are just wrong and racist". The more I read and looked at other sources the more I understood that recognizing bio-diversity or what historically happens when diverse groups are forced together into the same space was not racist. It was simply recognizing the truth of the situation.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 01, 2017 7:35 AM  

"But muh Isms"

Blogger Shane Sullivan May 01, 2017 7:37 AM  

Converting the white population of America shouldn't be too difficult since the number of truly self hating whites is undoubtedly much lower then is popularly believed; this group is probably relegated to whites who went to college, since I can't imagine any of the working class holding the diversity is a strength myth close to their hearts, at least none that I've met.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 7:40 AM  

It was simply recognizing the truth of the situation.

That is the point that I repeatedly reiterate, often to little avail. I am not creating anything. Look, I'm a game designer and a novelist. I understand what goes into the act of creation. It is very different than simply observing and describing what is already there.

Karl Marx created an ideology, Communism. I am simply describing, and to a lesser extent, labeling, an existing political philosophy, which is the Alt-Right. Unlike Greg Johnson, and to a lesser extent, Richard Spencer, I'm not attempting to brand a specific ideological program.

The Alt-Right is simply too broad for that. Both Zehut of Israel and the Iron Guard of Hungary can be reasonably described as Alt-Right. But other than both being strongly nationalist, they have little ideologically in common.

Anonymous JAMES May 01, 2017 7:42 AM  

Thankfully most of the sane alt right groups are willing to work alongside civic nationalists.

Some idiots still love their larping though.

Watching the Proudboys refuse to cuck on that Identity Europa bloke after he decked Moldylocks was great.

You don't have to denounce everyone willing to fight alongside you just because the left tells you to.

Blogger Orville May 01, 2017 7:46 AM  

So Mr. Buckley's sycophants athwart the tracks have discovered that the train is indeed fine.

Blogger Gaiseric May 01, 2017 7:53 AM  

On the other hand, conservativism is a pretty clever label. Probably too clever; it'll go over most people's heads, and if they even notice the extra syllable at all, they'll just assume its a typo.

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 01, 2017 8:03 AM  

I understand Conservatism Inc. as fitting into the globalist system like this:

The globalist elites have a “home game” and an “away game.” The home game (in the Western Core) is political correctness, anti-Christianity, anti-whiteness, open borders, forced diversity, White genocide, attacks on the family, and degeneracy of all sorts. The away game (in the non-Western Periphery) is war, neo-liberal privatization, regime chance, color revolutions, and coup d’etats.

The main job of the left in America is to carry out the home game while the right pretends to oppose them. The main job of the right in America is to carry out the away game while the left pretends to oppose them.

The Alt-Right disrupts the overall game of the globalist elites. So, as the Alt-Right rises, we'll see a merging of both globalist right and globalist left. The NeoCohens and Clinton Democrats are the models of this, as they both support and push the globalist home and away games.

Blogger tuberman May 01, 2017 8:05 AM  

Yes, excellent article and general post. The "Big Tent" will work. The transition is a step-by-step awakening.

Blogger Doug Cranmer May 01, 2017 8:06 AM  

Look at old photos and illustratios of white neighbourhoods with family, neighbous and the obvious sense of security. It's visceral. You KNOW that's what you want. You KNOW what we've lost. And you know that's what migrants are coming here to take and twist into their own ruined cultures.

There's not much really to have to argue about at all.

OpenID crapulux May 01, 2017 8:15 AM  

Similar news from France:

After Fillon lost, most of our "conservatives" turned tail and joined Macron. Some of them (like Nathalie Kosciusco-Morizet or Juppé) were really centre-left statists pretending to be "conservatives" all along... still they managed to pretend, but I guess this time it's gonna be a bit harder to fool the voters.

And... surprise comes from the most unexpected place, ie Nicolas Dupont-Aignan (NDA). Fillon lost because of him. And now NDA is allying with Le Pen.

This alliance breaks a very important taboo. Previously FN was "LITERALY HITLER" and therefore untouchable, yet NDA has dares to ally with them, and the world does not instantly end. This is truly a first. The media are having a seizure on this.

Since our "right" party decided to commit suicide by spitting on their voters and allying with Macron... "Les Républicains" could implode, and an alliance between FN/NDA could replace it. Strange alliance, as FN is quite socialist economically and NDA is not... but in other aspects they are a good match.

Maybe we can FINALLY have a decent right party? I don't know. This election is an epic mess.

Blogger Robert Divinity May 01, 2017 8:16 AM  

Solid advice. Facts on the ground, which include actual violence against whites and state-sponsored oppression of them, have made civil nationalists and even cucks start to accept reality. This is a war and everyone needs to act accordingly. This includes absorption of former adversaries as well as fighting the actual enemy who have been united a long time.

Results command respect. Once-dispirited people see hope when Spencer's supporters beat back the mob.

Anonymous Mark Auld May 01, 2017 8:18 AM  

Well said,and describes our position on historical time frame.I do hope an alt conservative channel appears to replace fox,that can pill a larger percentage of real Americans.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 01, 2017 8:24 AM  

Much has already changed even BEFORE the baptism-by-fire of our 50-years-long monetary/economic fantasy overtly ended.

I regard the visible changes (so far) as evidence that, under the mania, Leftism was pushed so far into irrationality that many people's cognitive dissonance became too deafening to sustain even fueled by arguably the highest social mood ever.

The conditions we in the USA took for granted, the conditions that drew migrants from across Planet Earth, are produced ONLY when (what amounts to) WASPs are a solid majority and white non-WASPs are most of the rest. We're clearly BELOW that threshold now as a consequence of Leftism's Long March. Western Leftism crossed into pathology no later than 1964 (and arguably over 100 years earlier) and only putting its sacraments on the Mastercard for 50 years allowed it to coast this far into Crazy-Land.

The pendulum swung too far, and then much further. Lots of decent notions, metaphorical salt and pepper, were turned into the Main Course. What is peaceful tolerance, elevated to a central sacrament, but a meal of table salt?

Much movement has already occurred. When the realization finally arrives that spending a borrowed dollar does NOT create two dollars in wealth, the Alt-Right will become so obviously attractive that today's ship, dangerously listing to port, will rapidly pass vertical and someday we'll have to worry about a starboard list. But first things first.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 01, 2017 8:28 AM  

After stocks finally top, interest rates rise and bonds begin their long-awaited, historic reckoning, the size of the Red Pill will grow to monstrous proportions and lots of people will have it administered as a suppository.

BOY, am I glad I got mine early, while it was small and administered PO.

Anonymous Joshua_D May 01, 2017 8:31 AM  

I think a Bible verse may be applicable here.

"Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." - Paul, Ephesians 4

Now, of course I believe Paul was talking to Christians, but I think his advice can be applied to any group of people with a common cause. We have to love one another. We have to be patient with one another. We have to give as much time as we can give to one another to see the truth. But, time isn't unlimited, and I suppose at some point we'll have to proclaim, "Either you are with us, or you are against us."

Blogger mapster68 May 01, 2017 8:32 AM  

As a converted libertarian, I concur completely. Ideas and theory are nice, but results are what matters. The Alt Right is showing it can actually take the fight to the enemy. Count me in!

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 01, 2017 8:34 AM  

Alt-Right isn't a tent at all. It is a series of independently-communicating mobile outposts.

Blogger ZhukovG May 01, 2017 8:37 AM  

This is not a fight between competing realities. This is a fight between reality(Alt-Right/Nationalism) and fantasy. Reality is going to win; that's just the way it is. Resistance to reality will only increase your and everyone's hardship and suffering. It will not change the outcome.

So, as I have said before; if you are wondering about your 'special case', become an unconditional, enthusiastic supporter of Nationalism. Expect nothing in return. You will likely receive most if not all that you want.

Oppose Nationalism and you will at best be deported, at worst....

Blogger seeingsights May 01, 2017 8:53 AM  

Nationalism will continue to make progress because unlike the failed ideologies mentioned by Vox Day, nationalism is rooted in important truths. One of those truths is that a person feels a connection with their nation, ethnic group, culture. The failed ideologies miss that.

Blogger bosscauser May 01, 2017 8:54 AM  

All through the land it dawns on us that there has never been a successful polyglot multicultural nation without a police state!

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 8:55 AM  

(Translation: don't use it on Twitter and Gab, or on your own sites, at least not yet.)

Kratman is chuckling to himself right now.

Anonymous Teapartydoc May 01, 2017 8:57 AM  

A whiff of power is like a cup of coffee. It wakes people up. The little guy in America had gone to sleep thanks to decades long administration of liberal soporifics. Trump was just the smell of the coffee. Most haven't tasted it yet, but seeing wins in street battles and having the struggle brought home by the kids and via the net means the lips are on the mug. Now watch them try to pull that mug away.
#10-- great post.
#13, meet #10.

Blogger tuberman May 01, 2017 9:11 AM  

20. VFM #6306

Okay, I like your view better.

Blogger Michael Neal May 01, 2017 9:14 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 9:15 AM  

Kratman is chuckling to himself right now.

Oh, shut up. Both of you....

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 9:15 AM  

Even though they are different terms, for the vast majority of people "White Nationalism" sounds exactly the same as "White Supremacy."

True. Even dialecticians need to bow to rhetorical reality.

Blogger Michael Neal May 01, 2017 9:16 AM  

It has been very hard for me too, the sticking points are the Alt-Retards and the use of the term White Nationalism. But I like how it's moving away from that term to omni-nationalism.

Even though they are different terms, for the vast majority of people "White Nationalism" sounds exactly the same as "White Supremacy."

Blogger allyn71 May 01, 2017 9:20 AM  

"I do hope an alt conservative channel appears to replace fox,that can pill a larger percentage of real Americans."

The television set and mainstream media are dead. The alternative is already here and real Americans are being red pilled everyday. If you are reading this you are already partaking in the alternative. The internet and original content creators are the new "Fox News".

Muhh TV!!! is for dying Boomers.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler May 01, 2017 9:22 AM  

The definition of racism is "the knowledge of racial differences".

The definition of racialism is "the idea of one's race being superior".

It is alright to be a "white Supremacist" or better yet a European Supremacist. We developed high culture and a high civilization. "The Sun never set on the British Empire". Compared to others, we have a high standard of living. Aristotle records a Greek proverb, "Tis meet that Greek rule barbarian".

In America, we built it, we founded it, we RULE it.

The Natural Law is "All things are in Authority or in Subjection". The Whites have to rule in THEIR country and the minorities come second---it is only natural. It is by nature. We have to rule in our own land. If you don't rule, the minorities will rule over you. That is happening now.

White supremacy Now and forever in this country and in Europe. F&%# the rest.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 01, 2017 9:22 AM  


As for the Alt-Retards who have been showing up here lately - and yes, I will use that term and permit use of it by the VFM and Dread Ilk here and here only as long as various Alt-Retards continue to violate the truce we had established with the Alt-White here - they provide the Alt-Right with an excellent model of what not to do and how not to win people over to your side.


This was inevitable. With so many gammas, the alt retard cannot help themselves.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 9:22 AM  

The correct response is not to condemn adherents of these failed ideologies for their past choices, much less for who they are, but rather, to give them time to observe, understand, and accept the reality of the changing historical trends, and to calmly offer the viable alternative.

In other words, "persuasion, persuasion, persuasion!"

Attacking people via words is a rhetorical shakeup, and is best served for people whose very core identity needs to be shaken up. Our enemies are also at their core cowards, and simply having peoplee stand up and resist with strong words already is the healthiest dose of reality they can get.

For those more aligned with us, those people with much less cowardice at their core and a thicker skin, Vox's method is absolutely the correct one. You have to open up a path of ideas for them to consider, so that when reality eventually intrudes, their only option is not to double down into oblivion but to consider that, perhaps, trying to emulate a failed movement isn't a great idea.

Infighting is a waste of time, when our time is much better off fighting Antifa.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 9:23 AM  

White supremacy Now and forever in this country and in Europe. F&%# the rest.

Always nice to hear from the Alt-Retards.

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 9:25 AM  

"Oh, shut up. Both of you...."

***Salute***


Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 9:26 AM  

"Infighting is a waste of time, when our time is much better off fighting Antifa."

preach preacher.

We don't have to actually be for anything at this juncture. All we have to be is against Antifa.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer May 01, 2017 9:30 AM  

Reason magazine failed to red pill. They exposed that they were cucks the whole time instead. There was diaspora of sorts when this prossess of acceptance was impeded of its course. It was delicious. The cucks left are some scum bags that will never see the light or have the intelectual courage to admit they were wrong.


Oh and verbosity on an adroid keyboard is torture.

Anonymous arw May 01, 2017 9:32 AM  

The civic nationalists are beginning to discover what so many of us realized not so long ago: a nation is its people, not its government, not its ideology, and not its position on the corporate tax rate.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 01, 2017 9:34 AM  

As soon as things got a little tough, the College Republicans folded their tents and blamed the “extremists” of the alt-right.

Well, of course they did. Don't blame the communists who were going to feed you an M80 wrapped in BBs if the Alt-Right and friends hadn't been there to protect you. Blame the Alt-Right for triggering those poor, misguided leftists!

So predictable. They always, always find a way to shoot right.

Anonymous arw May 01, 2017 9:34 AM  

Build the blog-wall and make Richard Spencer pay for it.

Anonymous Jeff May 01, 2017 9:36 AM  

Guys like Kyle Chapman may be Alt-Lite but he carries a heavy stick and he swings it in the right direction. I would fight along side him anytime.

Blogger JohnofAustria May 01, 2017 9:38 AM  

Alt-white here. We'll keep pushing the ragged edge as long as we're not getting stabbed from behind by the chopstickman style cucks. You don't have to agree with us, just don't fight harder against us than the left.

Anonymous Starbuck May 01, 2017 9:38 AM  

As I said in the Darkstream the other night, it's going to be very important for the Alt-Right to be patient and allow the civic nationalists, the conservatives, the libertarians, and those with various identity complications the time to process the information and work their way through the emotions that their senses of grief, loss, betrayal, and despair will likely inspire. - VD

I reached that 10 years ago. But I didn't know what to do with it. So I belonged to no political party. Unsure if I should go with Alt-Right. Its just hard for me to trust people in that sort of way.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer May 01, 2017 9:38 AM  

Why couldnt i have learned this lesson when i was in my 20 imstead of 40s. What an idiot.

Blogger Shane Sullivan May 01, 2017 9:41 AM  

@42 But would Kyle fight alongside you once he discovered you're Alt-Right?

Anonymous bobdobbs May 01, 2017 9:43 AM  

The alt-retards mates would be the prog-retards, yes? BLM, antifa et cetera. There we observe the 60/70s LARPs and the 30s LARPs. Both capable of notable violence. All sub-morons. Handle with care, but subject to a high level of ridicule. Take seriously, but not.

Blogger tz May 01, 2017 9:46 AM  

Trump's election is the equivalent of the fall of the Berlin wall.
Leftist intellectuals kept creating mental models and excuses as to why the Soviet Union was dysfunctional, but it was never Communism or socialism.
Conservative intellectuals now have the same problem, The ghosts of Burke, Taft, and Goldwater have departed.
Libertarians too, building ancap sky-castles while the world kept going left.

Reagan: "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall".
It got torn down. No complex treaties and diplomacy, just one day the hammers came out.

Trump: "I'm going to build a wall".
And it will happen. You see Trump winning in his first 100 days. Smaller government. Laws enforced. No dithering like W. No excuses, if Ryan can't, talk to Massie and golf with Paul.

It won't make a constitutional minarchy, but it will be far closer than the current state.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 9:47 AM  

You don't have to agree with us, just don't fight harder against us than the left.

I don't pay any attention at all except when some of your mates show up on here or at Gab attacking me and my allies.

I've ignored it for the last few months so they bravely increased their activity. So now, I'll smack them down whenever they do so.

Anonymous johnc May 01, 2017 9:49 AM  

All we have to be is against Antifa.

And while we're busy fighting Antifa, immigrants will continue taking over the country.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 01, 2017 9:56 AM  

And while we're busy fighting Antifa, immigrants will continue taking over the country.

Yes, because as a group or as individuals, we can't possibly do two things at once. Nope, total tunnel vision on one thing, that's all we can manage!

But thanks for the daily missive from Defeatist HQ. Always good to know the sky is still falling.

Blogger JWM in SD May 01, 2017 9:56 AM  

When was the darkstream?? Somehow I missed that. Is by invite only now?

Anonymous johnc May 01, 2017 9:56 AM  

I don't follow the various Alt-* very closely, especially because it seems different places use different definitions, but is the Alt-White/Retard cohort basically TDS, Identity Evropa, etc.? Because those people seem to be making serious inroads with the younger generation. Boomer cucks and Gen-X not so much, but the younger generation yes.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 01, 2017 9:57 AM  

36. Nate May 01, 2017 9:25 AM
***Salute***



shouldn't that be ... a ROMAN salute?

Anonymous Rather, Not May 01, 2017 9:58 AM  

Vox, your admonition to give them time: should that be interpreted as don't pressure them, or what is the best way to apply the right amount of pressure to speed the process along, while also recognizing that it is a process and it will take some time. There will never be moment of revelation where they will catch all the way up to the proverbial you applying the pressure.

Blogger tz May 01, 2017 10:02 AM  

A return to 1950's USA is not a proposition or ideology. It is a powerful idea and model. Make America Great Again.

Segregation? Yes but there was little crime and single motherhood in the black areas.
Patriotism/Nationalism? yes, but America second or dissolved into a globalist stew is worse.
And we don't have to bring back everything.

The alt-right may have different images of what we need to (re)construct, but they are magnificent and glorious. Both in beauty and virtue. But that, the shining city on a hill, is the prize. As was said but not heeded before, "keep your eyes on the prize".

There is no equality in heaven. Only hell. And that is the antifa's prize - a facade that appears good but always ends up as Zimbabwe or Venezuela.

Anonymous Kudos The Lexecutioner May 01, 2017 10:05 AM  

@1 W.LindsayWheeler

"Blood is thicker than water."

The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.

Blogger JohnofAustria May 01, 2017 10:07 AM  

@49 VD,
I'm speaking more generally toward the boomer-con types who seem to be eager to jump at the chance to attack people who larp as NatSocs, not you individually. My fault for the lack of specificity. And sure, anyone dumb enough to attack people who aren't attacking them can get smacked.

Blogger tz May 01, 2017 10:07 AM  

@50 And while we're busy fighting Antifa, immigrants will continue taking over the country.

That's Trump's job and ours to the extent of electing alt-right candidates and supporting them. The left is a shadow, and Mordor is small even for all the orcs. They will fight, even dirty, but will lose if we don't fold.

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 10:08 AM  

"A return to 1950's USA is not a proposition or ideology. It is a powerful idea and model. Make America Great Again."

The primary difference between alt-white and alt-west is that Alt-West is overtly Christian and informed entirely by Christianity.

But a second difference is that Alt_white dreams of an all white nation.. while Alt-West simply predicts are return to natural voluntary segregation.

We don't need to codify segregation into law. Its human nature. All we have to do is stop preventing people from doing what they want to do.

Blogger Unknown May 01, 2017 10:10 AM  

johnc wrote:All we have to be is against Antifa.

And while we're busy fighting Antifa, immigrants will continue taking over the country.



Fighting Antifa is street theater, and therefore useful. It raises the Alt-Right's morale and accustoms them to working together against a common opponent rather than remaining as a flimsy soup of atomized individuals.

In addition, it creates a "strong horse" image that will help attract more supporters -- particularly among young men, who are always a key component in moments of crisis.

Blogger JohnofAustria May 01, 2017 10:11 AM  

@55 I assume he means pressure them, but do it based on the facts to their immediate right. So for normie cons, point out that the left supports anti-white laws and groups. And attacks simply being white, not "racist" behavior.

Anonymous Panzer Man May 01, 2017 10:11 AM  

johnc wrote:All we have to be is against Antifa.

And while we're busy fighting Antifa, immigrants will continue taking over the country.



Fighting Antifa is street theater, and therefore useful. It raises the Alt-Right's morale and accustoms them to working together against a common opponent rather than remaining as a flimsy soup of atomized individuals.

In addition, it creates a "strong horse" image that will help attract more supporters -- particularly among young men, who are always a key component in moments of crisis.

Anonymous Just another commenter May 01, 2017 10:15 AM  

The biggest 2 problem I have in the occasional discussions I've had on the topics of political trends is that even if people on the other side can agree to many of the observations, they refuse to extrapolate it out in any reasonable way, and they confuse my pointing out of logical consequences with desiring those logical consequences; they start claiming I want civil war / race war / massive political division. They cannot seem to grasp the difference between expecting it and hoping for it.

I would say it's totally inexplicable, but I suspect it's just a normal convergence of cognitive dissonance and fear when seeing the obvious and undeniable.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 10:15 AM  

@52. JWM in SD
When was the darkstream?? Somehow I missed that. Is by invite only now?

I believe it's at the same time and place it normally is, Vox just isn't bothering to advertise it on this blog.

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 10:17 AM  

basementhomebrewer wrote:….. more I read and looked at other sources the more I understood that recognizing bio-diversity or what historically happens when diverse groups are forced together into the same space was not racist. It was simply recognizing the truth of the situation.

If you recognize bio-diversity, the fallacy of blank slate theory, and the fact that race is much more than a social construct, but a biological fact, then the term “racist” loses all meaning in the manner that it is thrown at people. If you recognize the biological fact of race, then “racism” is inherent and a biological necessity for the survival of any given race. In these terms “racism” is neither good nor bad, it simply IS.
From my personal experience explaining this to someone even partially open minded causes a major cognitive dissonance as it threatens to shatter their world view and they can get quite vehement in their denial. I stop at that point hoping that I have planted a seed without poisoning the field. I seem to have had some success so far with that approach.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 01, 2017 10:18 AM  

60. Nate May 01, 2017 10:08 AM
We don't need to codify segregation into law.


but you will need to recognize the Reconstruction Amendments as invalid law.

the legal / philosophical problem with them is that they permit the Federal government to force both individuals and States to take actions abhorrent to themselves.

ie - they restrain the States and Individuals when the purpose of the Constitution and BoR is to restrain the *Federal*.

the contractual problem with them is that many of the parties ( States ) who did so were under duress at the time they were forced to ratify them.

when the Federal government has the 'right' to put a gun to your head and instruct that you shall vote yea or nay on ANY issue ... you are a Slave.

fortunate then, that the 13th Amendment permits slaves. the problem being, of course, that most Americans haven't been 'convicted' of anything other than being citizens of the US.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 10:21 AM  

@Just another commenter
they start claiming I want civil war / race war / massive political division.

Have you tried rhetoric like, "Pointing out drinking and driving is going to get someone killed, that doesn't mean I want them to be killed", and then circling that back to how the US is on a bad path? If so, was the rhetoric successful?

Blogger JWM in SD May 01, 2017 10:21 AM  

Thanks Student in Blue. I just got back to the US Thursday so I'm still catching up on things.

Blogger Dirtnapninja May 01, 2017 10:22 AM  

Panzer Man wrote:Fighting Antifa is street theater, and therefore useful. It raises the Alt-Right's morale and accustoms them to working together against a common opponent rather than remaining as a flimsy soup of atomized individuals.

In addition, it creates a "strong horse" image that will help attract more supporters -- particularly among young men, who are always a key component in moments of crisis.


It builds connections between groups, freaks the mundanes, emboldens the right and helps to identify potential leaders.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 01, 2017 10:25 AM  

@55, To me the most important word in Vox's post is "condemn." To condemn someone is to say that he can never be saved, can never hope to get on the right side of things. Criticize and shame them when their actions are shameful, like stabbing their own protectors in the back; but don't condemn them outright and make them feel they have no choice but to join the other side.

That's how I take it, anyway.

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 10:25 AM  

"when the Federal government has the 'right' to put a gun to your head and instruct that you shall vote yea or nay on ANY issue ... you are a Slave."

Bob.

Do not Aspie here.
Not place for Aspie.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus May 01, 2017 10:27 AM  

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Blogger Old Ez May 01, 2017 10:30 AM  

Who exactly are the Alt-Retards again? Is it race realists or World War 2 revisionists or both?

Anonymous Panzer Man May 01, 2017 10:30 AM  

Nate wrote:"A return to 1950's USA is not a proposition or ideology. It is a powerful idea and model. Make America Great Again."

The primary difference between alt-white and alt-west is that Alt-West is overtly Christian and informed entirely by Christianity.

But a second difference is that Alt_white dreams of an all white nation.. while Alt-West simply predicts are return to natural voluntary segregation.

We don't need to codify segregation into law. Its human nature. All we have to do is stop preventing people from doing what they want to do.



As written, this is a recipe for having every European country turned into a brown third-world nation, just with the Whites "allowed" to keep to their own ghettos.

"Just don't prevent segregation" is not a practical solution to preventing one's nation from disappearing under a colossal flood of racially, culturally, and linguistically alien people. You have to maintain a demographic advantage in your territory or your country will cease to exist.

If France ended up with 60% Africans and 40% whites, it would no longer be France, even if you allowed the French to congregate in their own towns -- it would be an African country with white ghettos. If Japan, just as a mental exercise, ended up with 70% Russians and 30% Japanese, it would become Russia with Japanese ghettos, even if natural segregation were allowed.

Also, it seems a bit naive to assume that the various races/cultures will permanently peacefully coexist in some kind of balance jumbled together in an immense series of ghettos, cheek by jowl, rather than attempting to dominate or expel each other for their own advantage.

"Just allow natural segregation and do nothing else to preserve your nation" is a recipe for disaster. Is this "let everybody come and don't try to maintain an ethnic majority" REALLY the position of ALt-West? From what Vox has said, it doesn't seem to be the case, since he's pretty much Alt-West and appears to believe that ethnically homogenous nations (or at least racial supermajorities) are needed for stability. "Diversity + Proximity = War" and all that.

Blogger Gaiseric May 01, 2017 10:32 AM  

Nate wrote:But a second difference is that Alt_white dreams of an all white nation.. while Alt-West simply predicts are return to natural voluntary segregation.

We don't need to codify segregation into law. Its human nature. All we have to do is stop preventing people from doing what they want to do.

In other words, pockets of brown and black nations among a greater white nation host. At best, that looks like what we have today with pockets of small red nations within the greater white nation. More likely, these black and brown nations will be much more atomized. Brownistans and Blacktowns as ghettos of every major white city.

That seems a little bit like splitting hairs over degree.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 01, 2017 10:34 AM  

As several have noted, the automatic conflation of White Nationalism/ White Supremacism, and the associated negative connotations, is a rhetorical problem, and one that there's not always an easy answer to. It's probably better just to use "nationalist," or even something like "normal, patriotic American."

Rhetorically, these terms serve as ad hominems/ "crimestop" triggers/ diversions. One of the better approaches to the "muh White supreemist!" issue is to sidestep it (and the leftist "frame") and defend by attacking. Bob Whitaker's mantra is good:
"Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White."
whitakeronline.org/bobsmantra.htm

"Anti-White hatred," "self-hating White," "Why do you hate White people?" etc. Time to bring back "traitor" and "treason" as pejoratives, too. Though that may be a longer term project; we've fallen so far as a society/ culture that those terms don't have much sting for many.

Or, as I believe Vox suggested a while back, just call them pedophiles.

Anonymous bobdobbs May 01, 2017 10:38 AM  

Nate!
What.
We get signal.
This place aspie Valhalla.

Anonymous BBGKB May 01, 2017 10:41 AM  

French speaks for all of the so-called conservatives when he is more upset at Coulter’s noticing than he is at black clad thugs shutting down her speech.

One of those blacks is David French's wife's baby daddy.

Libertarianism and boomer politics that those well-paid heroes of the Right never win these fights

MILO just got $12mill, but on his last appearance at Mahar's show he was the dog that didn't bark against voter fraud dismissal or that it would take 300 CIA nigspooks working 24/7 for months just to do a simple keyword search. https://gab.ai/BGKB/posts/7397078

Look at old photos and illustratios of white neighbourhoods with family, neighbous and the obvious sense of security. It's visceral

Here is a good comparison of enrichment https://gab.ai/BGKB/posts/7398190

Have you tried rhetoric like, "Pointing out drinking and driving is going to get someone killed, that doesn't mean I want them to be killed"

How about "Pointing out that illegal alien drunk drivers kill more US citizens in 2 weeks than rifles do in a year, doesn't mean I want illegal alien drunk drivers or MS-13 bangers carrying a full auto AK in my nation"

If Japan, just as a mental exercise, ended up with 70% Russians and 30% Japanese

The DOT indian ghetto in Hong Kong is literally a patch of the 3rd world.

Anonymous bobdobbs May 01, 2017 10:42 AM  

Nate!
Well done, good exposition.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 01, 2017 10:50 AM  

@60 All we have to do is stop preventing people from doing what they want to do.

Hmmm. That sounds suspiciously like libertarianism. (grin)

All the hand-wringing here and everywhere else looks to me like a massive debate over a Single, Over-arching Policy to Get Us To The Promised Land....Together.

How...yesterday.

Once this long illusion dispels, no one will give a fig about such One Size Fits All, philosophically-pure programs.

Results. Results. Results. As local as needed, and philosophical rationalizations be damned.

I often feel like I'm sipping a mint julep at an antebellum hotel in downtown Savannah.

Anonymous Mark Auld May 01, 2017 10:51 AM  

As a pilled boomer,I take your point, but would remind you of the financial and voting power of said group, and yes,we still watch the tube...Tucker et Al are still relevant.

Blogger Elocutioner May 01, 2017 10:54 AM  

"In other words, pockets of brown and black nations among a greater white nation host."

Having little Haiti pustules pockmarking the landscape isn't a long term solution. There's plenty of room in Mexico, reverse the flow.

Anonymous BBGKB May 01, 2017 10:55 AM  

OT: Next time on (((DR WHO)))
"When the children at Portugal’s most famous orphanage heard the sports car roaring down the driveway, fear swept through the dormitories. The noise could mean only one thing: the man known as The Doctor was coming to call."
http://yournewswire.com/police-child-supermarket-pedo-ring/amp/

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 01, 2017 10:56 AM  

@63 Just another commenter

"The biggest problem I have in the occasional discussions I've had on the topics of political trends is that even if people on the other side can agree to many of the observations, they refuse to extrapolate it out in any reasonable way, and they confuse my pointing out of logical consequences with desiring those logical consequences; they start claiming I want civil war / race war / massive political division. They cannot seem to grasp the difference between expecting it and hoping for it"

Dialectically, you can always try explaining (or linking to an explanation of) the "moralistic fallacy," or point out that they seem confused on the distinction between "is" and "ought." This is unlikely to work, however, since you're going against pretty deep-seated conditioning.

Sometimes turning it back on them is helpful, at least to plant the seed. Recognize that this "you just hate non-Whites" technique, like much of what the Left says, is actually projection. They are presenting a consciously-planned and executed program (racial replacement of Whites in all White countries) as some sort of historically-inevitable process. "How much 'diversity' is enough? Will you be happy when this country is 40% White? 30%? 20%? Is Brazil your model for an ideal society, or does it have to be South Africa? Zimbabwe?" Diversity means chasing down the last White person.

Blogger OCG May 01, 2017 10:56 AM  

I wouldn't imagine that white nationalists/neos would have a problem with your omni-nationalism.

From what I understand, WN are satisfied with whites ruling whites and are against non-whites ruling whites.

WN don't seem to want to rule non-whites, and many wouldn't have much in the way of their professed hatred for non-whites if the non-whites were not present in such numbers and with such authority. Not to mention WN would be foolish to want to rule non-whites, with the corresponding responsibility that rule necessitates.

Blogger wreckage May 01, 2017 10:56 AM  

Another thing about the drift Right is, the middle has cucked out increasingly badly. People will move as far right as they need to to get a political rightward-shift.

The political centre-right does NOT understand that every time they win an election then swerve left, they actually cause the electorate to move further right.

The center has collapsed itself. It's gone.

Blogger slarrow May 01, 2017 10:58 AM  

@55, I don't think pressure is really needed. Just keep pointing out the things that are true that politically correct zealots want to deny. I've found this approach rhetorically useful:

"I didn't say I liked it. I just think it's true."

I just keep dripping those truth drops (Magic Dirt, men/women want different things, what's the alternative to America First, no such thing as equality in reality, etc.) into conversation and let people work it out for themselves. It takes time, especially for those who have thought through their positions. Not only must they accept the evidence for the new position, they have to refute the evidence for the old position. Attacking them for clinging to their old position only encourages them to hunker down reflexively.

Slow and steady does it. It's how I changed from a daily NRO reader to an alt-West guy. It helps if, like Vox, you're interesting as hell.

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 11:01 AM  

"In other words, pockets of brown and black nations among a greater white nation host. At best, that looks like what we have today with pockets of small red nations within the greater white nation."

no.

Its what we have in the South. Ask yourself how much tension there is in the christian world between black churches and white churches.

There isn't any. Why? Because churches are voluntarily segregated.

Do the same with schools.. and you'll see a totally different civilization and culture. Do the same with work and stores and you will see a totally different civilization and culture.

When people have their own place to be with their own people the majority of the time it becomes are easier to treat each other respectfully and well in neutral spaces.

Anonymous johnc May 01, 2017 11:02 AM  

Fighting Antifa is street theater, and therefore useful.

I don't deny the optics of it (when we win) since presentation is certainly important. I'm just saying that if we're going to focus so much attention on waxing and polishing the car, we would want to make sure that we're not losing focus on what's going on in the engine bay. The engine might require more attention than the paint job. And my personal assessment (I may be wrong) is that that's where we are right now.

You ask people on The_Donald about the Battles of Berkeley and they'll tell you all about the details. Ask them if they knew that under Trump we're bringing in as many refugees as Obama and far more than Bush, and they would probably be a bit surprised to hear that. You don't know that unless you follow Ann Corcoran or Ann Coulter.

I know a lot of people are still in the "trust zone"; but trust is not a strategy.

If we want to get angry about something let's get angry about the fact that the border wall is not funded instead of fake "free speech" battles on campus. This is why the Alt-Retard is running out ahead of the rest of the Alts when it comes to pushing the Overton window. In this regard I see some parallels to Rorate Caeli vs. Pope Francis and what happened with all of that, and some of you know what I'm referring to. But, in the end, I think that's a good thing.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 01, 2017 11:03 AM  

As several have noted, the automatic conflation of White Nationalism/ White Supremacism, and the associated negative connotations, is a rhetorical problem, and one that there's not always an easy answer to.

@76 Francis Parker Yockey
It's only a "problem" because the progtards have constantly equated the two. Yet another victory for their standard tactic of asserting a lie enough to make it the truth.

It's helped by the term "supremacist" being ambiguous. WNs use it to mean whites who want to rule over other races. But your run-of-the-mill progtards use it to mean whites who think their race is better than others, which would cover WNs. Oddly enough, "white separatist" (whites who just want to live apart from other races and be left the bleep alone) has almost entirely died out, even though it was used fairly often in the 1990s.

Blogger Koanic May 01, 2017 11:07 AM  

> All we have to do is stop preventing people from doing what they want to do.

What people want is ethnic cleansing. If you intend to stop whites from taking Indio and black land, you will have to do it by force, e.g. the Civil War.

Laissez faire is also insufficient to prevent disastrous miscegenation, because everything from tribes to empires are racially porous. Which is why God provided anti-miscegenation laws more stringent than Hitler's. Hail Jehovah.

By Esau's red hair and Sarai's fairness, I dare not suggest that God's white American remnant be like Ephraim, mixed among the peoples, like an unturned cake - that is, burnt.

Blogger Gaiseric May 01, 2017 11:08 AM  

@88. That works in the South because the population balance has historically been amenable to that solution—and because everyone is more or less happy with the status quo.

Suggesting that the same model can be adapted to an invader horde of El Salvadoreans and other hispanics, or even with northern blacks who are more caught up in agitprop and entitlement, and northern whites who have no idea what to make of it, is a recipe for failure.

That was a particular Southern solution that only worked in the South—and I'm not even so sure that conditions in the South are such that it could be easily returned to in any case. They certainly aren't anywhere else in America.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 01, 2017 11:11 AM  

OT: I want a T-shirt that says, "Choose the Red Pill now, before reality turns it into a suppository."

Question to Nate:
Would a nation characterized by voluntary segregation be peaceful if transfer payments (e.g., LINK) and affirmative action were part of what ended?

I expect them to end, but I'm not sanguine about it being peaceful.

Blogger OGRE May 01, 2017 11:13 AM  

VD wrote:Even though they are different terms, for the vast majority of people "White Nationalism" sounds exactly the same as "White Supremacy."

True. Even dialecticians need to bow to rhetorical reality.


This has been on my mind for the past week or so, that "White Nationalism" has a serious branding issue. In particular, that a lot of people will naturally equate that with White Supremacy. And a lot of Alt-White's aren't making much effort to distinguish between the two. Not that they are obligated to do so, but I have a hunch that for a lot of them there really isn't much difference.

I watched Some Black Guy interview Nathan Domigo, the Bane of Moldylocks. It was a good interview, but what struck me was that while what Nathan had to say was pretty on point, the presentation was quite poor. He says he is an Identitarian, which is reasonable enough. But he couldn't quite articulate his position in a way without a wink and a nod to white supremacy. Coupled with his pasty white image and high and tight haircut, it was real hard not seeing a white supremacist there. Again, this is all about image and rhetoric, not an issue with the man himself. The same issue pops up with Richard Spencer...he LOOKS like what a white supremacist would look like with his hair and his dress, and his mannerisms and speech reinforces that image. And that image turns people against him. Hell, I agree with a lot of what he says, but I still want to punch him in his smug face. (I want to punch a lot of people though.)

It really comes down to advertising. What are we selling here? I think the gist of it all is that "Diversity + Proximity = War." And that proposition is easy enough to sell to most people just on historical facts. Too many competing factions in close proximity leads to violence...always. This isn't even a racial matter, as it plays out along ethnic and religious lines even more often (just look at Ireland).

So we aren't pushing for hate against non-violent groups, or suggesting that one race or ethnic group is better or worse than others. Just that putting them all together leads to violence. And we don't want anybody to suffer violence without cause. In order to prevent a potential civil war in which people of all races will suffer severely, we need to allow people to self segregate--as they naturally do--into their own tribes. And we absolutely oppose allowing other tribes to invade and infiltrate our locales, as this also leads to violence and war.

In the end we are simply advocating for peace for all peoples. And this peace can only be achieved through keeping separate tribes of peoples out of each others home lands.

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 11:15 AM  

"Suggesting that the same model can be adapted to an invader horde of El Salvadoreans and other hispanics, or even with northern blacks who are more caught up in agitprop and entitlement, and northern whites who have no idea what to make of it, is a recipe for failure."

no. we're not talking about them.

They have to go back. There is no difference between Alt-White and Alt-West when it comes to immigrants of the last (pick your favorite time frame).

Alt-West loves the "You Have to Go Home Now" memes as much as any other Alt-Right faction.

Blogger praetorian May 01, 2017 11:16 AM  

As for the Alt-Retards who have been showing up here lately - and yes, I will use that term and permit use of it by the VFM and Dread Ilk here and here only as long as various Alt-Retards continue to violate the truce we had established with the Alt-White here - they provide the Alt-Right with an excellent model of what not to do and how not to win people over to your side. (Translation: don't use it on Twitter and Gab, or on your own sites, at least not yet.) Also, I should note that I will respond accordingly to Alt-Retards who attack me on Gab.

The TRS crew has theorized that bullying people into the Alt-Right works, based on personal experience. I think that can be true, but seems to be largely context-sensitive, e.g. it works on people who are were ready for the change, or who don't immediately push back instinctively to it (ironically, alpha men and women, for different reasons of course), if you know the person IRL, etc. So you need to wait for the right moment to apply the pressure (this may change if and when the mass psychology of fascism manifests itself and the jew/nazi cycle turns.)

Patience to the left and no enemies to the right, however, is the safe default.

You'd think they would have learned their lesson, but then, if they were intelligent, they wouldn't be running around wearing swastika panties on their heads.

Say what one will about wearing swastika panties on ones head, but at least it's an ethos. The The Daily Stormer wouldn't be bearing the full brunt of SLPC lawfare if it wasn't.

Anonymous Brick Hardslab May 01, 2017 11:16 AM  

The fights with the black masks are just warm ups. They might end the black masks as anything but a talking circle but there is more and worse coming unless the elites simply surrender the field seeing they are outmatched.

Right now they haven't even gotten their hands slapped just heard a few insults hurled over the battlements so I don't expect the globalists are feeling much pressure.

Their trained parrots are screeching like harpies but that's just to drown out the alt voices and pour encourager les autres. They are not really feeling the sting yet. They're the kid that says 'ouch' when he sees the needle coming.

I never thought we'd see the globo-left pushed off the streets by anyone so my prediction skills are rusty. I thought it was possible, just never thought it would happen.

Blogger James Dixon May 01, 2017 11:19 AM  

Menawhile, leftist journalists (but I repeat myself) continue to lose it: http://blog.sfgate.com/morford/2017/04/28/100-days-in-the-hole-trumps-vulgar-america-so-far/

The best comment on the first page:

"Mark, you absolutely don't have to survive another hundred days. Razors, sleeping pills, a tall building -- any of those will do. End the suffering."

He then leavens it slightly as he comments further, which is a shame.

Blogger OCG May 01, 2017 11:19 AM  

While it's one thing to say that people want ethnic cleansing, it's entirely another thing to see it in action.

If it does happen violently, it needs to beging and end quickly. Seeing other humans suffering without feeling that you are in an existential struggle is going to kill moral high ground feelings and morale.

And a wounded enemy is a dangerous enemy.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 01, 2017 11:20 AM  

@80 dc.sunsets
"@60 All we have to do is stop preventing people from doing what they want to do.

Hmmm. That sounds suspiciously like libertarianism. (grin)

All the hand-wringing here and everywhere else looks to me like a massive debate over a Single, Over-arching Policy to Get Us To The Promised Land....Together."

Wait, so you're saying that focusing on concrete, achievable real world goals is more important than debating the exact form of the utopia that will surely come, when Year Zero finally arrives, and society is redesigned from the ground up, according to the Right Principles? I'll have to think about that one. Just doesn't seem right, somehow.

Blogger Koanic May 01, 2017 11:23 AM  

If the Southern Solution worked, the upper castes of India would still be white.

There's a reason conservationists kill hybrids.

Blogger praetorian May 01, 2017 11:24 AM  

Unlike Greg Johnson, and to a lesser extent, Richard Spencer, I'm not attempting to brand a specific ideological program.

Can you expand on that? Greg recently posted his answers to a journalist doing a hit job on Jack Donovan:

https://www.counter-currents.com/2017/04/interview-with-maureen-oconnor-for-new-york-magazine/print/

And his answers seem deeply pragmatic to me, which is my general impression of him. Am I the victim of a ruse?

Blogger Timmy3 May 01, 2017 11:24 AM  

Conservatives should never compromise on their principles, but I seen it way too many times. Congress just passed a budget that didn't pay for the wall and continues to fund Planned Parenthood and Sanctuary Cities. This is a failure.

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 11:25 AM  

"Would a nation characterized by voluntary segregation be peaceful if transfer payments (e.g., LINK) and affirmative action were part of what ended? "

Define peaceful.

I don't think an outcome exists that would fit a reasonable definition of peaceful in the short term.

Long term... after some unpleasantness... then yes.

Anonymous BBGKB May 01, 2017 11:26 AM  

Would a nation characterized by voluntary segregation be peaceful if transfer payments (e.g., LINK) and affirmative action were part of what ended?

Would it be safer than when an Asian engineer with a PHD loses a promotion to an illiterate black for head of DC's public transportation?

I expect them to end, but I'm not sanguine about it being peaceful.

The food stamp card going down for 8 hours on 10-12-2013 was enough chimpouts to get a few faggots to flee DieVerseCity.

Blogger Sheila4g May 01, 2017 11:27 AM  

@74 Panzer Man: ""Just allow natural segregation and do nothing else to preserve your nation" is a recipe for disaster. Is this "let everybody come and don't try to maintain an ethnic majority" REALLY the position of ALt-West? From what Vox has said, it doesn't seem to be the case . . . "

You are correct {if I may take the liberty to interpret what I've long read here} in that Vox has strongly endorsed homogeneous nations. Nate's view is, I believe, held by a minority of readers/commenters here. Not that it is rejected in toto; rather that it is necessary but insufficient in and of itself. The sticking point between Alt-West and what various people label Alt-White, Alt-Reich, or Alt-Retard is religious {Alt West believes any future America must maintain an explicit yet nondenominational national Christian identity}, the economic system {some at TRS/TDS etc. do propose socialist/fascist economic systems as opposed to a nationalist capitalist one - note that is distinctly different than the global-corporatist capitalism we have today}, and finally racial {Alt West believes in a White definitive majority population and rule, yet does not really devote time to debating what precise % of an individual or society must be "White" and whether that American-only definition must be limited to those of purely Northern European ancestry}. There is no disagreement, as clearly demonstrated by Vox's 16 points, on the importance of the 14 words or even recognizing the importance of the JQ {but that, too, is distinct from what Vox labels a monomania}.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 11:28 AM  

@OGRE

It's hard to reclaim WN when both White Anything and Nationalism both have taboos against them. In that end, probably the only way to accomplish that is to instead focus on taking back the word Nationalism, and the term White, and don't get hung up on calling yourself White Nationalists.

Rhetorically, I'm thinking the phrase "Nationalism is patriotism" will be useful. It's also true!

Blogger Matamoros May 01, 2017 11:31 AM  

A Pikeville after report on the maul-right

https://www.dailystormer.com/strikers-analysis-on-pikeville-the-good-the-bad-and-the-critics/

Anonymous Crew May 01, 2017 11:32 AM  

Does Richard Spencer sound Canadian?

https://t.co/JwPuyyhF9G

Blogger ZhukovG May 01, 2017 11:34 AM  

I agree with Nate. Also, there is nothing wrong with Libertarian policies as long as they are subservient to the needs of the Nation(people).

We could return to an Eisenhoweresque America and do it with little suffering or hardship. Unfortunately, I believe that by the time the political will exists to make this happen, the situation will be so far out of control that the bloodshed will likely be of biblical proportions.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 01, 2017 11:34 AM  

@96 praetorian

"Say what one will about wearing swastika panties on ones head, but at least it's an ethos. The Daily Stormer wouldn't be bearing the full brunt of SLPC lawfare if it wasn't."

Though the use of lawfare against DS likely has at least as much to do with tactics as ideology. Their use of Alinsky's Rule 13 (Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it...) against Tanya Gersh after she led the attempt to extort Richard Spencer's mother did not make the (((SPLC))) happy.

Anonymous john May 01, 2017 11:36 AM  

The hair cuts criticism comes up on the left also, but I think that's just the style young people have these days. I see the altar boys with it and the kids at the grocery store, etc. I don't think it signifies any kind of white nationalist sympathies. If it does then holy crap the kids these days have gone full-tilt 'cause it's everywhere here.

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 11:38 AM  

Working with boys/young men in the 9 - 18 range They do seem to rapidly gravitate to Alt-white jumping over the "moderate" Alt-right.

As DC has pointed out the pendulum overshoots on the way back and the young white males seem to be prepared to rapidly go far beyond anyone on this blog might guess just from what I am casually seeing.
Its also interesting since they seem to be dying for any sort of adult male to explore the questions with, as they seem to know or have experienced that these topis are off limits with most adults including their parents.
I am working with boys in a relatively wealthy conservative area and honestly I could easily see a swing to forced segregation with this age group. In the dark of the evening around a camp fire these boys/young men are already calling BS on non-whites getting privileges over them, and they most certainly do notice it.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 11:43 AM  

Who exactly are the Alt-Retards again? Is it race realists or World War 2 revisionists or both?

1. Nazis. 2. Neo-Nazis. 3. Anyone deifying or praising Hitler. 4. White imperialists. 5. White supremacists. 6. White nationalists who believe Europeans and Australians are part of the same nation as Americans.

Now, they are not the problem. I'm entirely content to leave them alone. But the same is true of kids with Down's Syndrome.

I have no problem with white nationalists who are really American nationalists. That is a coherent position.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 11:44 AM  

All we have to do is stop preventing people from doing what they want to do.

I suspect this is an excessively optimistic perspective. But it is a good starting point, at the very least.

Blogger tuberman May 01, 2017 11:51 AM  

111. Francis Parker Yockey

"Though the use of lawfare against DS likely has at least as much to do with tactics as ideology. Their use of Alinsky's Rule 13 (Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it...) against Though the use of lawfare against DS likely has at least as much to do with tactics as ideology. Their use of Alinsky's Rule 13 (Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it...) against Tanya Gersh after she led the attempt to extort Richard Spencer's mother did not make the (((SPLC))) happy. after she led the attempt to extort Richard Spencer's mother did not make the (((SPLC))) happy."

Do you have a URL that explains what happened there. I was hoping that Witch ( Gersh) would get payback.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 01, 2017 11:52 AM  

@90 VFM #7634

"It's helped by the term "supremacist" being ambiguous. WNs use it to mean whites who want to rule over other races. But your run-of-the-mill progtards use it to mean whites who think their race is better than others, which would cover WNs."

Of course, thinking that your group is "better" than outsiders is a normal, healthy instinct. It's not a claim of objective superiority, really-- it's loyalty. Love for your own people. What parent doesn't think that their kid is "better" than some stranger's kid? Is it wrong to think that your hometown, or your school, is better than the others? Does anyone care if Blacks, or Asians, or Jews, think that they're better than Whites?

Anonymous DonReynolds May 01, 2017 11:57 AM  

During times of stress and confusion, many people become anxious. They begin to search for consensus. What is the central theme? Where are we going? Am I a part of what is going on? Some will gather around a banner, hooked by friends or family or because it looks like a good place to stand and watch the parade.

I have studied pre-conflict for decades and I can safety summarize that no one could ever predict the outcome. What we call the "fog of war" was always particularly thick before any war began. Even though many people feared that war was threatening, the consensus was usually that the war could be avoided by any number of symbolic gestures. The despised hothead minority usually ended up carrying the lead banner and most of the others begrudgingly fell in behind....compelled to agree by shame, failure, and utter necessity.

We are in that thick fog now that history will mostly gloss over when looking back. It will ignore all the contradictory events and facts that we wade in up to our hips and focus on telling the story of the final outcome. All other voices that called out in the fog, no matter how loudly, will soon be ignored and forgotten.

This was particularly true prior to the American Revolution, the civil war, and World War II. A person living during the pre-conflict years could not possibly imagine how it would end, because the end was so unlikely, even to the most wide-eyed optimist.

These conflicts take their own path, no matter what was intended or why. Like a boulder caused to roll down a mountain, the path will not be what is expected and the destination may be much further than necessary.

Anonymous patrick kelly May 01, 2017 11:58 AM  

"Anyhow, the more complicated one's identity, and the more ethnically and culturally intertwined one's family, the more frightening the global rise of nationalism is going to be, and the more "what about MEEEEE" is going to be sole perspective initially utilized to consider events. But eventually, reality will intrude, as it always does. "

Yep. Once life stripped me down to family and Church it became much more difficult finding motivation to adopt a broader cultural or national identity. I'm still struggling with this.

" No one capable of dialectic makes an ideological shift of this magnitude overnight; I didn't and you probably didn't either. So, be patient and be calm,.."

Kind and wise council. I'm still in the second O of my life OODA loop regarding these matters.


Blogger SmockMan May 01, 2017 12:00 PM  

I found the alt-white to be annoying. Treating them as trolls is best.

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 12:03 PM  

Nate wrote:
Its what we have in the South. Ask yourself how much tension there is in the christian world between black churches and white churches.
There isn't any. Why? Because churches are voluntarily segregated.
Do the same with schools.. and you'll see a totally different civilization and culture. Do the same with work and stores and you will see a totally different civilization and culture.
When people have their own place to be with their own people the majority of the time it becomes are easier to treat each other respectfully and well in neutral spaces.



I disagree, you see the said “respect” because of the massive welfare programs from SNAP to affirmative action. In any meritocracy type system you would not have the peace/respect as the blacks would be heavily out competed by the whites on average. You’d have high performing white schools, American whites perform as one of the highest white groups in the world when you remove “minorities” from the testing scores. Meanwhile blacks would be performing at slightly above African levels. That alone is enough to generate substantial discord over time and there is no answer to it except for separation….. To each race their nation.
Once again as has been pointed out by many on this blog, the age of abundance and excess that we have lived through has allowed many of the inherent conflicts to be papered over with abundant resources. As those resources become scarce, competition will become fierce and less than polite.



On a related matter, it is fascinating to ask one simple question then watch young men's minds run with it..... That question is, if I replace half of the Japanese population with Americans is it still Japan? If I replace half of the French with Germans is it still France? The answer is almost always given as "no". Ask them to think about that and extrapolate it. It opens pandora's box for these young minds in my experience.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 01, 2017 12:05 PM  

71. Nate May 01, 2017 10:25 AM
Bob.

Do not Aspie here.
Not place for Aspie.



nate.

do not bring up the 'law' if you don't want the law discussed. the 14th and 15th Amendments are how the Federal government creates such legal abortions as forcing bakeries to shut down.

even though the 14th and 15th actually have no provision for oppression of the individual citizens, only for Federal oppression of the States.

alternatively:

telling a Kekistani not to "REEEEEEEEEEEE" is an exercise in futility.

here's my man Tyrone for further explication:
http://2m2l2d2d.blogspot.com/2017/04/you-know-we-should-get-all-alt-right.html

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 12:12 PM  

johnc wrote:Fighting Antifa is street theater, and therefore useful.

……..You ask people on The_Donald about the Battles of Berkeley and they'll tell you all about the details. Ask them if they knew that under Trump we're bringing in as many refugees as Obama and far more than Bush, and they would probably be a bit surprised to hear that. You don't know that unless you follow Ann Corcoran or Ann Coulter.……….



My opinion is that’s not a bad thing at this point. Trump is just a man, he is not THE MOVEMENT, he is the result of the movement beginning to awaken. If he does well he gives the Alt’s more room and resources to build a solid foundation. Worst case, trump does nothing else for the rest of his term, and I say that it is irrelevant to the Alt-X. The number of illegal invaders are irrelevant to the foundation of the Alt-X at this point. 15 million, 20, million, 40 million, the difference is meaningless at this large of a number, what matters is the Alt-X forming a coherent group structure. A coherent and determined Alt-X will deal with 15 million invaders more or less the same as 30 million invaders and their neo-marxists collaborators.

Anonymous W. Lindsay Wheeler May 01, 2017 12:14 PM  

From Wikipedia: White supremacy "describe[s] a political ideology that perpetuates and maintains the social, political, historical and/or industrial domination by white people".

That is the historical case of the use of the term in America. The Ku Klux Klan used that term a lot. And they were right to use that term---Because it was Republicans that put Negroes in leadership positions throughout the South. These SJW whites put Negroes in the governor, senator and legislator positions. It was about upending the natural order and shoving it in the Confederate faces.

The same thing is going on today. Before the Alt-right ever came into being the Ku Klux Klan was a WASP Defensive Force fighting against the Gnostic Christianity of SJWism. They are the rightful heirs. Where was the Alt-Right? Nowhere to be found. It was the KKK that was, and is, the fighting force of the WASP in America.

The White Supremacy charge was in response to White SJWism that put Blacks in charge of political positions.

And I never will be a member of the Alt-right because I'm a monarchist Because there is a connection and bond between one's leaders and the development of a people. There is a psychological connection between how a people act and behave and to their racial elite. It is the racial elite that form culture. And the superiority of monarchy is proven by the election of a Negro Communist Barack Obama. Yes, monarchy does produce sometimes class idiots but every one of my monarchical racial idiots is better than Obama any day of the week. If America was a monarchy, there would never have been a black man to lead America. The election of Obama was a disgrace and a black mark on Whites.

The elite of America are SJWs and the Jews. How can you have WASP culture with that?

The KKK is the rightful heir and always leader of the National Conscience of America. They have been there from the beginning.

Blogger Nationalist Flicka May 01, 2017 12:22 PM  

**Just allow natural segregation and do nothing else to preserve your nation" is a recipe for disaster. **

Yeah, if no other reason than we are still supporting them. They are a financial black hole.

Ofcourse, they don't build anything so they are living in squalor as we build successful, safe and harmonious places to live. Which would be fine EXCEPT busy body white liberals and leftists swoop in and point that out, teach them that we have every thing because they have nothing and well, we know the rest of the story.

The number one misstep during apartheid was allowing them to come in and work. Then the busy body Afrikaaners felt bad.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 01, 2017 12:26 PM  

@116 tuberman

"Do you have a URL that explains what happened there. I was hoping that Witch ( Gersh) would get payback."

dailystormer.com/?s=tanya gersh

Essentially, she was identified as the leader of the the attack on Spencer's mother. DS coverage focused on her, rather than any other people/ organizations involved in the extortion attempt. Her identity and (business) contact info were publicized via Twitter, comment sections of mainstream articles on the story, etc. The real story of her extortion plot was publicized as well.

It's possible that some people may have attempted to contact her directly, in an effort to discover why she is consumed by such blind, unreasoning hatred for Whites. It's also possible that concerned citizens may have asked the the Montana real estate authorities whether criminal extortion is considered appropriate behavior for a licensed real estate agent.

In reading the DS coverage, it's important to realize (of course) that Anglin's style is very heavy on hyperbole/ trolling/ rhetoric. Iromic Nazi is best Nazi. I still have no idea whether the march on Whitefish was a troll from the beginning, or whether it became one when the logistics started to look bad. Once he announced that there would be a speaker from Hamas present, though...

Of course, these sort of tactics don't have nearly the same sort of power against the Left that they do against the Right (to render someone unemployed/ unemployable). But they're thinner-skinned.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 01, 2017 12:26 PM  

As a pilled boomer,I take your point, but would remind you of the financial and voting power of said group, and yes,we still watch the tube.

If there's a right-winger with the money and connections to put together a TV network in the next year, it's probably worth doing, for that reason. It probably wouldn't be smart for someone to set out on a 10-year plan to develop one, though.

Also, I don't have cable, but from what I hear, TV has started using social media as content. I hear about morning shows throwing tweets or video clips they found online on the screen and then discussing them. So if we continue to spread the truth online, then as the old media look for ways to stay relevant, they will increasingly pick up what we put there and broadcast it anyway.

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 12:28 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:I agree with Nate. Also, there is nothing wrong with Libertarian policies as long as they are subservient to the needs of the Nation(people).

We could return to an Eisenhoweresque America and do it with little suffering or hardship. Unfortunately, I believe that by the time the political will exists to make this happen, the situation will be so far out of control that the bloodshed will likely be of biblical proportions.


This seems beyond being wildly optimistic. Does anyone really believe that 20 to 40 million invaders in the US are going to suddenly be willing to drop their reproductive rate and isolate themselves in communities that are generally ghettoized compared to average intact homogenous white communities. They aren’t going to block vote themselves more benefits that are on average payed for by only 30% of the population, most of whom are white?
I am certainly not a professional historian or as well read as many here, but I would suspect that there is not a documented case of such a massive segregation of disparate races willingly segregating.
The invaders came to the US because being poor here is middle class at a minimum compared to where they came from. In many cases, the worst case scenario for them in the US is better than the best case in their homeland. Under those conditions there is no way to peacefully segregate the populations. The only group that benefits from said segregation are the whites, it is against the self-interest of every other group.

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 12:28 PM  

"I disagree, you see the said “respect” because of the massive welfare programs from SNAP to affirmative action. "

and yet things were fine for a long time before any of those existed.

Thus.. those things did not cause the state of "fine".

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 12:33 PM  

VD wrote:Who exactly are the Alt-Retards again? Is it race realists or World War 2 revisionists or both?

1. Nazis. 2. Neo-Nazis. 3. Anyone deifying or praising Hitler. 4. White imperialists. 5. White supremacists. 6. White nationalists who believe Europeans and Australians are part of the same nation as Americans.

Now, they are not the problem. I'm entirely content to leave them alone. But the same is true of kids with Down's Syndrome.

I have no problem with white nationalists who are really American nationalists. That is a coherent position.


Serious question:

I recently had a chat with a German fellow who takes a hardcore “white German” nationalist position yet considers himself a Nazi. Per your philosophy on the Alt-X subject would consider his position coherent or in the “alt-Retard” category?

Blogger Old Ez May 01, 2017 12:35 PM  

"This has been on my mind for the past week or so, that "White Nationalism" has a serious branding issue."

No, that's not right. The branding issue is not with "white nationalism" it is with "white" *anything*. You will never be given approval to advocate for your interests, so you sitting around waiting to be granted approval is a waste of time. "White" is never going to be a non-problematic "branding device," friendo.

Blogger Sheila4g May 01, 2017 12:35 PM  

For an interesting take on the importance of both battling Antifa AND supporting {or at the very least not attacking} the Alt-White and/or Alt-Reich, read Hunter Wallace on Pikeville.

Blogger ZhukovG May 01, 2017 12:36 PM  

@Grayman: What part of Eisenhower's America had 40,000,000 invaders in it? Also, what part of "bloodshed will likely be of biblical proportions" do you find wildly optimistic?

Neither Nate or I propose maintaining the welfare state or allowing millions of foreigners to continue to squat in our country.

Blogger Koanic May 01, 2017 12:42 PM  

The neegro is the misbegotten child of Boomerposting conscience.

As you measure it out, so shall it be measured back to you. Whether to the Boer or the Bantu, the measurement is a pinch of salt for the pot.

Anonymous Frog May 01, 2017 12:42 PM  

"I have no problem with white nationalists who are really American nationalists. That is a coherent position." I'm not sure I understand this point. What is a white nationalist who is really an American nationalist? Would that be people like Jared Taylor?

Blogger Koanic May 01, 2017 12:45 PM  

Bushman! Curses!

Blogger Sam May 01, 2017 12:47 PM  

@130
As long as his position doesn't involve conquering territory to add to the Reich, he'd be the first one. He wouldn't be the first nationalist to celebrate a strong national leader who managed to lead their country to ruin (I'm looking at you Napoleon).

Blogger Sam May 01, 2017 12:49 PM  

@135
White nationalism isn't coherent because whites are multiple different ethnic groups; it is the same as why Pan-African Nationalism or Pan-American Nationalism never worked. White nationalism in the sense of white Americans is coherent because there is a common heritage, ethnicity, language and culture (due to intermarriage).

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 01, 2017 12:49 PM  

however, what you are proposing will never be permitted by the Federal government, as currently constituted and adjudicated.

this is like being dismayed that Trump is involving Red China in ( attempting to ) create a solution to the Norks.

it's one thing to be surprised by a NEW, never before seen response to an action.

when you've already seen the obvious first order consequences of an action play out HISTORICALLY, it's another thing altogether to pretend that you're surprised by them happening again.

IF the US unilaterally attacks North Korea
THEN we should expect a possible military response from both Red China and the Russians, given that both nations directly border NorK
JUST as happened in the 1950s.

IF you attempt to set up segregated communities ( for Whites. "minorities", of course, are permitted all things )

THEN you *must* anticipate that the state governor is going to send in the National Guard

and

IF the governor refuses

THEN you must expect the Federal government to send in the regular Army ... for the express purpose of desegregation and violation of your right to Free Association.

staffed by guys like Kratman, who will claim to be upholding and honoring the Constitution.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 01, 2017 12:50 PM  

@130 Grayman

Another question: How many leftists actually worship Satan? Yet how many would support the "right" of this club to establish itself at public schools? Why? What do they gain from it?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/finally-an-after-school-club-for-satanists

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 12:53 PM  

@Grayman

At the very least, it's incoherent if he's also trying to claim he's of the right-wing while also being for national socialism.

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 1:00 PM  

@133 ZhukovG


We could return to an Eisenhoweresque America and do it with little suffering or hardship.

I was responding primarily to the above base assumption. I don't think there is ever a realistic peaceful undoing of such a situation, there are to many conflicting interests involved.

Having lived in Mississippi, tenneesee, and Georgia and being well familiar with the black-white culture interactions especially in small towns, I personally don't see how you could remove the crutch of government aid to minorities without serious blow back. Once again perhaps I read your post too quickly if there was a different intent of your message.



@140. Francis Parker Yockey
Not sure how that applies to the german fellow I was asking about. But from my experience the left like it because it breaks up homogeneous religious white culture or they support it through some nihilistic stance.

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 1:06 PM  

@140 Francis Parker Yockey

He was white German nationalist (Germany for white Germans) who wants a a eruo-type socialist government.
Based on the criteria discussed here his position would seem to be coherent without addressing the "quality" of the position. I may be missing some key points, but some of the Germans I have spoken with seem to be re-branding the term "nazi" more along what this gentleman was describing and not literally implying the original national socliast party that hitler came to lead.

Blogger OGRE May 01, 2017 1:07 PM  

@131 I'm not 'sitting around waiting for approval' to advocate for my own self-interest. But pushing "White Nationalism" as a political movement is doomed to fail because the great majority of people will see it as a mixture of KKK style white supremacy and Hitler-esque Nazism. And that will not sell, even with hordes of machete wielding aztecs performing human sacrifice in the streets.

What is "White" anyways? Do we mean Caucasians? That includes a lot of middle-eastern folks...Semitic, Turkic, Hamitic, etc. Just those Caucasians of European descent? I don't think all Caucasian Europeans think of themselves as belonging to the same tribe. The Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes might have something to say about that, and they're all part of the same ethno-linguistic group. Do we just mean Nordics? Well now we're excluding the majority of white-skinned Americans.

My point is that "White" is far too broad of a tribe to peacefully coexist with itself. If I put 100k protestant Scotsman, 100k orthodox Russians, and 100k Catholic Frenchmen in the same city there's bound to be some significant violence. That would be a clearly "White" city, but it suffers from the exact same problem that pulling in millions of mexicans into the southwestern states does.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 01, 2017 1:08 PM  

@142 Grayman

"Not sure how that applies to the german fellow I was asking about. But from my experience the left like it because it breaks up homogeneous religious white culture or they support it through some nihilistic stance."

It doesn't. Not directly. It's a more general analogy to the Nazi thing and the Right.

Blogger Old Ez May 01, 2017 1:14 PM  

"What is white anyway" is a question only a nonehite or a cuck cos serious ask in an unironic/uncritical tone. You have internalized the narratives of your enemy and now you regurgitate them on command anytime a white person is getting a little too close to a position that actually threatens the current system. You boomers are not capable of effecting change because your are mentally paralyzed. You folks are the political equivalent of quadrapalegics.

Blogger Gimli May 01, 2017 1:15 PM  

yup, this site and 4chan are what converted me. i used to have arguments with race realist guys i worked with. i found this site and /pol/ and like the communities so i stuck around. after a while, i stopped thinking "thats interesting but racist" and started thinking "huh, shit, he might be right". now im one of you.

Anonymous johnc May 01, 2017 1:17 PM  

But pushing "White Nationalism" as a political movement is doomed to fail because the great majority of people will see it as a mixture of KKK style white supremacy and Hitler-esque Nazism.

Doomed to fail where...? In the voting booth? Or in the propaganda war? If the latter I'd recommend you get better acquainted with the younger generation.

My point is that "White" is far too broad of a tribe to peacefully coexist with itself. If I put 100k protestant Scotsman, 100k orthodox Russians, and 100k Catholic Frenchmen in the same city there's bound to be some significant violence.

Definitely not. In our town we have all kinds of different white ethnicities and different white Christian religions and our neighborhood is not like Chicago. After the state Supreme Court forced blacks and Mexicans into our town the place is not as wonderful.

I don't deny there are some differences of opinions among whites, and that the Eastern European stock tends to be a bit more rambunctious, but I don't think Italians and Germans would have much problem integrating and being close neighbors.

For Europe however I do think the national borders are important.

Anonymous Panzer Man May 01, 2017 1:19 PM  

Frog wrote:"I have no problem with white nationalists who are really American nationalists. That is a coherent position." I'm not sure I understand this point. What is a white nationalist who is really an American nationalist? Would that be people like Jared Taylor?

Presumably people like myself, who views the American nationality as white, English-speaking, predominantly Christian, and with various shared cultural values, most derived from an English or Anglo-Germanic core -- but who emphatically thinks that "majority white" is necessary to maintain that American nationality/civilization. Preferably "supermajority white."

I've never once seriously entertained the idea of "all whites in one nation." That's simply insane and destructive. And impossible, and undesirable. The world would be poorer without Germans, French, Irish, Danes, Italians, etc.

Blogger maniacprovost May 01, 2017 1:24 PM  

I recently had a chat with a German fellow who takes a hardcore “white German” nationalist position yet considers himself a Nazi. Per your philosophy on the Alt-X subject would consider his position coherent or in the “alt-Retard” category?

If he's actually German, it's a coherent position. It's still retarded though, not just because Nazism failed and socialism always fails, but because it's not a winning political strategy to identify as a Nazi.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 1:27 PM  

Per your philosophy on the Alt-X subject would consider his position coherent or in the “alt-Retard” category?

Incoherent. If he doesn't support Nazi positions such as imperial Teutonic supremacy, he's not a Nazi.

Rebranding a disastrous failure is idiotic. That's Alt-Retard. Why not rebrand mental retardation and slavery while you're at it?

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 1:30 PM  

My point is that "White" is far too broad of a tribe to peacefully coexist with itself.

This is true. It's like Asian nationalism or African nationalism. There is no Asian nation. There is no African nation. And there is no white nation, with the exception of America, which is a deracinated and rootless pseudo-nation where "white" is about as close to commonality as it can get.

Which, of course, is why the USA will inevitably collapse. It's internally weaker than Austria-Hungary was.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 1:30 PM  

I'm not even sure that all of the whites in America now are genetically close enough that they'd effectively be a nation if it weren't for the federal government.

If there's a silver lining in the presence of blacks and browns in America, it's that it presented a common "enemy" which is a powerful force for cooperation.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 1:31 PM  

White nationalism isn't coherent because whites are multiple different ethnic groups; it is the same as why Pan-African Nationalism or Pan-American Nationalism never worked.

Precisely.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 1:33 PM  

The branding issue is not with "white nationalism" it is with "white" *anything*.

This is true. But the branding issue isn't the primary problem with it. The primary problem is that outside the USA, it is every bit as stupid and incoherent as the EU. Which is why omni-nationalism is the only coherent political ideology for non-imperialist nationalists.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 01, 2017 1:33 PM  

Define peaceful.

I don't think an outcome exists that would fit a reasonable definition of peaceful in the short term.

Long term... after some unpleasantness... then yes.


Ah so. Whatever disagreement existed between our views was temporal. No difference of opinion exists once a "new normal" arises.

I totally concur, FWLIW.

Blogger OGRE May 01, 2017 1:33 PM  

@146 I'm not at all a cuck, I can trace my maternal grandmothers family to Jamestown and the House of Burgesses, and for fucks sake I am most certainly not a goddamn Boomer. Frankly, I think you are projecting, because now you're just rambling on semi-coherently.

Blogger Nick S May 01, 2017 1:35 PM  

Make Kekistanians a constitutionally protected class now!

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 01, 2017 1:38 PM  

and yet things were fine for a long time before any of those existed.

Thus.. those things did not cause the state of "fine".


In fact, those things might have been one of the primary causes of making things not fine.

Anonymous johnc May 01, 2017 1:40 PM  

If there's a silver lining in the presence of blacks and browns in America, it's that it presented a common "enemy" which is a powerful force for cooperation.

But the wrong common enemy, which is something even the Alt-West hasn't figure out yet.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 1:42 PM  

But the wrong common enemy, which is something even the Alt-West hasn't figure out yet.

Yes. The Illizardnati.

Everything would be fixed if only we got rid of the lizardmen!

Anonymous W. Lindsay Wheeler May 01, 2017 1:42 PM  

VD: This is true. It's like Asian nationalism or African nationalism. There is no Asian nation. There is no African nation. And there is no white nation, with the exception of America, which is a deracinated and rootless pseudo-nation where "white" is about as close to commonality as it can get.

I agree. Miscegenation is wrong in all cases. Slavic Europeans are NOT Teutonic Europeans. In America, Anglo-Saxons, a Teutonic race, should only marry other Teutonic races such as the German-Americans, Dutch-Americans, and French-Americans.

The Irish and the Scots are NOT Teutonic but Celts. Different racial heritage. The Scots hated the English. The Scots rejected English culture because it is not of them or for them.

Slavic Europeans are not Teutonic. Slavs are to marry other Slavs.

And then in Battle Creek, MI, several co-workers that I have been around have Jewish heritage. There are many like that. This is from the massive Russian Jewish immigration of the 1890s.

America needs to be realigned racially according to the huge racial blocs. My interactions with and the reading of Scots, Slavs and Jewish related tells me that they are not Teutonic.

Remember the Russian proverb:

"What is good for a Russian is deadly for a German".

We must return to the language of the Old Order, the Natural Order and maintain that. And: "No more shiskas for the Jews".

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 01, 2017 1:43 PM  

1. Nazis. 2. Neo-Nazis. 3. Anyone deifying or praising Hitler. 4. White imperialists. 5. White supremacists. 6. White nationalists who believe Europeans and Australians are part of the same nation as Americans.

7. White nationalists who believe that Yankees are part of the same nation as Southrons.

Blogger Quilp May 01, 2017 1:45 PM  

I've been sort of expecting a "big fish" among the conservative inc types to break right soon. Big fish do love to feed, and with so many little fish moving on to more ideologically coherent waters, the pickings have to be getting slim on cuck pond. Anyway, while thinking about that, and reading the discussion on language here; how emotion attached to those words (separatist, Nationalist, suprematist etc) I have to wonder how those who make a living writing can deal with the inner conflict of punching to the right using the same tactics of language the left has used on them for so long.

Thanks for the discussion, fascinating, and very informative.

Anonymous Grayman May 01, 2017 1:46 PM  

@151 VD

Noted and appreciate the education.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 1:47 PM  

7. White nationalists who believe that Yankees are part of the same nation as Southrons.

An interesting thought, though.

Makes me imagine them crying, "Why are you clinging to such an old, dead, and defeated identity, you Southerners!?" whilst they clutch an Iron Eagle.

Blogger Old Ez May 01, 2017 1:48 PM  

"White nationalism isn't coherent because whites are multiple different ethnic groups" - the world, 2017

"French Nationalism isn't coherent because the "French" are multiple ethnic groups" - the world, 987

"German Nationalism isn't coherent because the "Germans" are multiple ethnic groups" - the world, 1869.

Its just time to face the fact that non-whites and boomers really don't have what it takes to lead a resurgent Western Civilization. Not because they couldn't if they wanted to, but because they don't really want to - which is why they say crazy things like "white people aren't even a thing". Making excuses like, "but white people aren't really a thing" is what indicates that they don't have the strength or integrity to save Western Civilization. Saving "Western Civilization" is an admirable goal. Nothing less than WHITE CONSCIOUSNESS will achieve it. People who reject their white identity are not in a position to save the West.

Anonymous SevenCrimes May 01, 2017 1:53 PM  

What I intuitively understood for years, and what "Cuckservative" crystallized for me, is that Conservatism has always been the Heat Sink for the Leftist Political Machine.

Anonymous Sixth largest island May 01, 2017 1:58 PM  

Brilliant analogy, W.O.

Blogger ZhukovG May 01, 2017 1:59 PM  

I agree that the United States will go through a collapse and that several Nation-States will appear on the scene. I suspect that one or two of these Nation-States will be considered the successor states to the United States and will assume control of the nuclear arsenal. I think there will be just one successor state that will combine most of the 'Old South', plus Texas, much of the Midwest and Rocky Mountains.

Ethnically the successor states will likely be Anglo(includes Scot-Irish)-Germanic with a small(5%) African-American minority.

On the peripheries you will see a collection of African, Irish, Italian, Latin American etc. states.

The situation would not be dissimilar to the Russian Federation today.

The question then is; does the successor state, or states, try to recreate the United States Abraham Lincoln style?

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 2:01 PM  

Saving "Western Civilization" is an admirable goal. Nothing less than WHITE CONSCIOUSNESS will achieve it

Well, you answered your own question. The EU is breaking up because it can't even establish a European identity with full political, legal, and taxation powers that surmounts the British, French, and Germany identities.

And you think you're going to establish a global WHITE CONSCIOUSNESS....

That's definitely Alt-Retard.

People who reject their white identity are not in a position to save the West.

All the nations of Europe reject the concept of white identity, just as all the Asian nations reject the concept of yellow identity. You're not even a true nationalist, you're just a color-conscious globalist.

Blogger Lovekraft May 01, 2017 2:01 PM  

found at reddit r/Indian on the banner:

"Many Nations One Community"

Natives, like other ethnic minorities, are playing the racket. Raking in billions of dollars. Whites have no interest in assuming that, should they also achieve minority status, their new lives at the grievance-trough will be met with generosity by the new hosts.

Absolutely nothing could convince me that having overt Muslim or communist diversity overlords would benefit me or concur with my overall goals. Sure, I may expect some measure of domestic peace, but it just isn't in our blood.

The alt-white is pushing this concept, the alt-west is still trying to balance possibilities and what-ifs. The alt-west thinks it can keep going and then stop at the point where it isn't enough of the threat to the masters and their hordes of payservants. And that life will run smoothly.

I don't think people on the alt-west are willing to admit that having a stable nation requires significant curtailing of existing power/demographic structures, so instead try and take the alt-white down to hide this insecurity/uncertainty.

And I'm not saying I am some Proudboy Domingo but also am not fooling myself into thinking that the alt-west concept doesn't have serious limitations at present.

Finally, I found this banner at reddit r/Indian (Natives):

"Many Nations One Community". This needs unpacking.

Blogger Nate May 01, 2017 2:02 PM  

"Makes me imagine them crying, "Why are you clinging to such an old, dead, and defeated identity, you Southerners!?" whilst they clutch an Iron Eagle."

exactly.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 01, 2017 2:06 PM  

@49 VD
I've ignored it for the last few months so they bravely increased their activity. So now, I'll smack them down whenever they do so.
---

How I wanted to do this on GAB, but instead, I figured putting them on mute is the way I handle it. That way no need to fight with them at all.

Blogger Old Ez May 01, 2017 2:10 PM  

"The EU is breaking up because it can't even establish a European identity"

The EU is breaking up because it is an artificially constructed monstrosity. You're intelligent and you're honest, Vox, so why pretend that the EU is some legitimate model for what an Allied White World would look like? You're just being dishonest/disingenuous here. "White Nationalism" doesn't mean "one white nation" either, which you also know, but pretend not to. It means a coalition of white nations.

"All the nations of Europe reject the concept of white identity"

Yes, and they are all in the process of being erased from history. Think that's a coincidence?

What I was really hoping to see in your rebuttal was "yes huh non-white people can save the West! We don't even need you stinky-poo white people that don't even really exist!"

Of course I wasn't actually expecting you to say that, because you're a serious person. Which is why the rhetorical poses you strike trying to justify the emotion-driven attacks on the core of the Alt Right come off so thin compared to your usually impeccable arguments

And everyone let's please be honest: the attacks on the "Alt White" emanating from this blog started because of a tasteless comic starring VD that was circulated last year. The comic was quashed and so were Vox's attacks on the Alt Right. So what gives? Did someone repost the comic? Or is the most recent flourish of anti-white activism on VP the result of my posts calling the losers of WW2 "the good guys"?

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass May 01, 2017 2:13 PM  

"Anyhow, the more complicated one's identity, and the more ethnically and culturally intertwined one's family, the more frightening the global rise of nationalism is going to be, and the more "what about MEEEEE" is going to be sole perspective initially utilized to consider events. But eventually, reality will intrude, as it always does. Nothing we do or say or think is going to change the fact that liberalism has failed, conservativism has failed, civic nationalism has failed, multiculturalism has failed, and globalism has failed. Like feminism and communism, all five of these ideologies contained the seeds of their own destruction within themselves. Internal incoherency is why ideologies fail; we are merely observers of the inevitable failures."

But but but but what about all those POC queer transgenders? We can't send them back to their home countries!!!!!

"Converting the white population of America shouldn't be too difficult since the number of truly self hating whites is undoubtedly much lower then is popularly believed; this group is probably relegated to whites who went to college, since I can't imagine any of the working class holding the diversity is a strength myth close to their hearts, at least none that I've met."

@5 Even those that are amongst the ranks of college educated white people will start to come around once they've spent enough time amongst diversity. They can say what they want: better schools, safer streets, etc. but they know the reason why they're moving to a more white area. They're cognizant of the fact even if they won't say it.

"Why couldnt i have learned this lesson when i was in my 20 imstead of 40s. What an idiot."

@45 Keep in mind the Internet didn't really take off as an arena for political ideas until the early 2000's when you were probably in your early 30s. The only reason I learned it in my 20s is because I was born in '86.

"Have you tried rhetoric like, "Pointing out drinking and driving is going to get someone killed, that doesn't mean I want them to be killed", and then circling that back to how the US is on a bad path? If so, was the rhetoric successful?"

@67 Per your suggestion for just another commenter a rhetorical device I've used that is quite effective is that of a radar predicting an incoming thunderstorm.

"Makes me imagine them crying, "Why are you clinging to such an old, dead, and defeated identity, you Southerners!?" whilst they clutch an Iron Eagle."

@166 Having spent time in the South it might be oh because said identity has served y'all well for over a hundred years.

Blogger Were-Puppy May 01, 2017 2:14 PM  

@65 Grayman

I stop at that point hoping that I have planted a seed without poisoning the field. I seem to have had some success so far with that approach.
---

This is an experience I have had a quite a few times. I remember one time not too long ago on Gab I had apparently triggered a Civic Nationalist. Many of my followers are Civic Nationalist, and that is fine. I post many things appealing to them. But this guy got triggered over something to do with race. In the end of the conversation, he was still triggered, but was basically saying the same thing I was. I didn't yell back at him or anything, but let him come to the conclusion himself. I don't think he accepted his own conclusion at that time, but hope that he has considered it further.

I don't feel like these guys are enemies in any way, it's more that they are not fully informed, or still asleep.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 01, 2017 2:20 PM  

175. Old Ez May 01, 2017 2:10 PM
So what gives?



read Vox's posts, he already told you.



175. Old Ez May 01, 2017 2:10 PM
It means a coalition of white nations.


England needed no coalition to become the Empire on which the sun never sets.

Anonymous DonReynolds May 01, 2017 2:21 PM  

One of the advantages that Americans have over Europeans is that the melting pot mostly did melt. The vast majority of "white" Americans have blended together the ethnicity (and nationality) that is largely European into an American society, though not the only society in this country. Certain people did not melt into the common society but many did. It is only people in isolation that were able to maintain their European identity....some of the Dutch in Michigan, the German religious communities in Pennsylvania, the Irish in Boston, and the like.

For the most part, white Americans speak English, are patriotic citizens, and are themselves a blend of European roots. We have to a large extent overcome the ancient separations of white populations in Europe through intermarriage and assimilation.

One of the Disadvantages of the American experience for all of our families has been the separations we have made for ourselves. The states are by no means uniform, nor were they ever intended to be. They were settled and built by very different peoples and those people spread (almost due) west across the continent, bringing with them those same differences that have existed even back to colonial times. This is where Regionalism comes from and was not overthrown or materially changed by those successive waves of immigrants that followed and assimilated into the existing societies. So while Americans have blended their European roots into a common identity, that common identity has various strands of its own. For that reason, we need to stop thinking in terms of the deep national European origins of the families in this country and focus instead on the much more significant incompatibility that has become part of the American experience and has a profound impact on national politics to this day. Who came here and where in Europe they are from is not nearly as important as where they settled in this big country.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 2:22 PM  

@Old Ez
The EU is breaking up because it is an artificially constructed monstrosity.

And empires aren't?

Anonymous Jay Will May 01, 2017 2:23 PM  

"The EU is breaking up because it can't even establish a European identity with full political, legal, and taxation powers that surmounts the British, French, and Germany identities."

The primary reason British people want out of the EU is they think Muslims are coming here to kill us all, and the EU wants it to happen. They are in for surprise as the Tories want the same thing, as do the crazed lefties of Corbyn.

Nobody cared about the EU until mass immigration, and mass media reporting of peaceful religionists reared its head.

Powerful people with an army of clever people are preparing us for a war to further continue the destruction of nationalistic sentiment via war against another tribalistic impulse, Islam.

The future narratives are again "choose nationalism, choose death"

Privatize the worlds resources in a few hands, manage and control populations. They've done it at national levels, attempting it at international level.

You must know this so your either a shill or you keep this to yourself for other reasons.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 01, 2017 2:24 PM  


And everyone let's please be honest: the attacks on the "Alt White" emanating from this blog started because of a tasteless comic starring VD that was circulated last year. The comic was quashed and so were Vox's attacks on the Alt Right. So what gives? Did someone repost the comic? Or is the most recent flourish of anti-white activism on VP the result of my posts calling the losers of WW2 "the good guys"?


Anti - retard is not anti - white

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 2:25 PM  

Vox, so why pretend that the EU is some legitimate model for what an Allied White World would look like?

I'm not pretending anything of the sort. You're just clueless about Europe. The EU is an ATTEMPT at establishing a European identity. It has completely and utterly failed, just as you will fail in your attempt to establish an even broader identity.

You're just being dishonest/disingenuous here.

Don't lie about me again or you'll be spammed.

"White Nationalism" doesn't mean "one white nation" either, which you also know, but pretend not to. It means a coalition of white nations.

Then it's not white nationalism. You guys are astonishingly stupid. Literally everything you say doesn't mean what it obviously means. Nazi isn't actual National Socialism. White nationalism isn't nationalism.

Yes, and they are all in the process of being erased from history. Think that's a coincidence?

That's ridiculous. They have never had "white identity". That's a post-deracinated American concept that is meaningless to the various European nations. They have never needed it to survive. They don't need it now. What they need is what they had before, which is national identity. And the good news is that is actually a viable possibility.

Which is why the rhetorical poses you strike trying to justify the emotion-driven attacks on the core of the Alt Right come off so thin compared to your usually impeccable arguments.

These arguments are as impeccable as any of the others. You simply can't grasp that actual Europeans don't think like Americans who have lost their link to their original European nations. They are resistant to the very assertions that Americans fell for; for example, I've seen the "nation of immigrants" line used in both Britain and Sweden.

So what gives? Did someone repost the comic?

What part of "Alt-Retards attacking me here and on Gab" did you not understand? You may not have seen them here because I've spammed them, but I now have a mute list on Gab that is over 20 strong.

I left you guys alone. I am still leaving you guys alone. But some of your guys are not returning the favor and I'm not particularly inclined to ignore attacks on my marriage or my ancestry.

Blogger VD May 01, 2017 2:28 PM  

I don't feel like these guys are enemies in any way, it's more that they are not fully informed, or still asleep.

Correct. The Alt-Lite is the larval Alt-Right. Handle them gently, feed them, and help them grow up to be fearsome beasts with sharp teeth.

Blogger Koanic May 01, 2017 2:28 PM  

What's missing from this analysis is altruism.

White Nationalism is not about One White Empire. I don't know anyone who thinks that. It is an antidote to pathological altruism - that whites are allowed to have ethno-states.

Greek consciousness stopped the Persians at Thermopylae. The immivasion has returned, and with it the consciousness.

The titanic voltage created by friction across the largest conceivable genetic distance that will still permit interfertility, transmitted by the superconductivity of the Internet, jumpstarts hearts across continents with the racial pride of history's greatest extended family:

White Power.

Blogger ZhukovG May 01, 2017 2:28 PM  

@Old Ez: 175 is not one of your more intelligent posts. A Frenchman does not identify as 'White', he identifies as 'French'. There is no such thing as a 'White German', there are only Germans and not-Germans, regardless of what their papers say.

The EU, from its founding, was intended to create a common European Identity. That it is a monstrosity is a testament to this failure. Hell, a common European Identity hasn't even arisen after the imposition of millions of Muslims. It ain't gonna happen. The Muslims are still doomed however.

The only anti-White activism on VP exists only in your imagination and the Soros trolls that show up like a bad habit.

Also killing millions of white people does not make you the 'good guys'.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 01, 2017 2:28 PM  

I'm not particularly inclined to ignore attacks on my marriage or my ancestry.

We can't make casino or margarita jokes anymore?

Blogger Cerdic Ricing May 01, 2017 2:28 PM  

They pull the same idiocy in the United States and North America, failing to see how it won't work here. You have active separatist sentiments in the Southeast amongst the Southeastern populace of the US, and active separatist sentiments in Quebec in Canada. I fail to see how that observation translates to the idea that forming a pan-white state in North America is intelligent, or in any way good. Unsurprisingly, they then obviously don't get that they're going to have immense trouble just keeping Canada and the US together. They focus on expanding, when their goal would be much better served at just trying to retain what is here, albeit that is likely already futile as well.

As far as pan-white identity, I see some European alt-retards meme it, with the thought that, basically the US should capitulate its own interests to serve the "greater European" need (basically what they want). I've seen the rhetoric that Europe is "the land of your ancestors", as if it makes any sense that the Americans are going to put Europe above their own people over sentimentality. This is stupid when we have the current invasions and the crumbling of the current state. I don't see why the Europeans would adopt the idiocy of pan-white identity from the obvious failure that is the current American state.

I do see many more people in the States support the pan-white thing, as I guess they think it necessary to pretend to explain away the various regional ethnic identities starting to form amongst the US whites. It's just racially conscious civic nationalism, which we've seen the obvious failure from already.

If the pattern of everything is going towards fragmentation, attempting to go the other way seems idiotic, and a way to surely and quickly wane into irrelevance.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 2:30 PM  

@Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass
Having spent time in the South it might be oh because said identity has served y'all well for over a hundred years.

In which case, why are the Alt-White trying to lump them together into a mishmash with Yankees? That's basically trying to kill their culture.

Blogger Student in Blue May 01, 2017 2:36 PM  

@Koanic

If white nationalism doesn't mean white nationalism (if it's not pan-white nationalism, then it's somehow only American... at which point why isn't it just American nationalism?), and national socialism doesn't mean national socialism... then why are you apparently engaging in doublespeak like a liberal?

Blogger lowercaseb May 01, 2017 2:37 PM  

JAMES wrote:Watching the Proudboys refuse to cuck on that Identity Europa bloke after he decked Moldylocks was great.

When people come from out of town to help prepare for an incoming flood...I don't nag them about their political choices while they fill the sandbags.

Antifa might be street theatre in the rest of the US, but here folks who own businesses in the mission and out in Oakland are tired about their windows getting smashed anytime someone sets them off, as the police do nothing and the insurance gets higher and higher. Everyone that came had a every right to say "this is a California issue, you guys made the culture, you deal with it."

...and yet they came and helped. Leave aside all other issues. We should as least have some gratitude that they came and stood by us.

Blogger Old Ez May 01, 2017 2:43 PM  

"The EU is an ATTEMPT at establishing a European identity"

No, it's not. Its an attempt at establishing an anti-European, globalist identity, which is why it failed. What honest person would try to claim that the EU actually represents the interests of "Europe" is all I meant.

"Then it's not white nationalism." - But why do you get to define what white nationalism is in contradiction to how almost all WNs define it? What you have done is thought up a very improbable plan, called it "white nationalism" and said, "it will never work!" Well you're right, but only because the thing you call "white nationalism" is a creation of your own, nothing more. What actual white nationalists understand by "white nationalism" is white people taking control of their respective nations and those nations conducting themselves toward one another as brotherly nations would, nothing more.

You may believe "white nationalism" must be understood as "white centralized imperium" but hardly any other WN out there thinks that's what it is, so what is the point of presenting it as something that it is obviously, empirically not?

You can spam me for saying and getting personal or whatever, but it appears to me that you're not interested in having any kind of honest debate on this issue. Your mind is made up on "white" anything. We could speculate about why that is, but one thing beyond speculation is that you're not open to being convinced on this, which means any pretext you put on of engaging in debate is just that, pretext.

"They have never had "white identity". That's a post-deracinated American concept that is meaningless to the various European nations. They have never needed it to survive. They don't need it now."

Can you think of why that is? The *sole* reason why that is is because modern Europeans had no experience with the Negro or the Saracen. Americans developed a "white" identity because we saw up close and personal what "black" really meant. Now Europeans are going to be seeing that too. They will develop a "white identity" in the sense that the French will realize they are more
similar to Germans than they are to Africans.

"You simply can't grasp that actual Europeans don't think like Americans" - Yes, they don't. But they will soon enough, whether you want them to or not because here's the thing: all it takes to become a "white nationalist" is (1) to start noticing things and (2) be proud of being white.

"I left you guys alone. I am still leaving you guys alone. But some of your guys are not returning the favor and I'm not particularly inclined to ignore attacks on my marriage or my ancestry."

I see. That is shitty. If I knew who it was I would try to put a stop to it. But I am glad that you're able to admit that this is personal and not actually about the politics. So why drag the politics into it at all then? Just because the assholes personally giving you shit are "white nationalists" doesn't mean that it is their "white nationalism" that is making them be assholes.

I can speak with a mortal certainty that every "white nationalist" I know if a religious VD reader, which is why they get so confused when they see posts like this one.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 01, 2017 2:46 PM  

@187
We can't make casino or margarita jokes anymore?

An Aryan supremacist walks into an Arizona casino and says to the bartender, "Margarita, pleeze!". The bartender scowls and replies, "We don't serve Indians in here!"

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 01, 2017 2:49 PM  

Now Europeans are going to be seeing that too. They will develop a "white identity" in the sense that the French will realize they are more
similar to Germans than they are to Africans.


If that was the case, you'd be seeing more European integration, not less.

Blogger Old Ez May 01, 2017 2:51 PM  

"If that was the case, you'd be seeing more European integration, not less"

No, because people are already hip to the scam that is the EU. You're assuming that there is an integration model in place that works and that people would appeal to it. The reality is, the only reason why Europeans are being exposed to all of the African vibrancy at all is because of the monstrous "European Union". So the idea that people fleeing vibrant diversity would embrace the EU is based on several false assumptions.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 01, 2017 2:53 PM  

and those nations conducting themselves toward one another as brotherly nations would, nothing more.

Using terms like brotherly nations or brother wars is proving Vox's point.

Anonymous johnc May 01, 2017 2:56 PM  

The EU, from its founding, was intended to create a common European Identity.

I am a bit skeptical because, from its founding, the EU pushed the importation of distinctly non-Europeans. I mean, TPTB do lie with self-interested motivations... on occasion. And I never got the impression that the founders and operators of the EU were /ourguys/. They dropped a brick in their drawers when Trump won. That should tell us something.

Anonymous GrayMan May 01, 2017 2:57 PM  

@188 Cedric

The US looks like it could be stable with 4 different white ethno-states. In general terms, the northeast, the southeast, the midwest and west coast.
Depending on the effects of a nasty civil war driving the movement of populations the delineation of the west coast and south west areas could be a very big question mark.

Control of the civilian and military nuclear assets will probably play a big part in the shape of any new ethno-states. Both Civi and Mil nuclear assets have international implications that external players will probably decide they have a stake in, to assure stability and predictability.

Blogger Old Ez May 01, 2017 2:58 PM  

"Using terms like brotherly nations or brother wars is proving Vox's point"

Yeah that's fine. I'm perfectly willing to admit that most whites in Europe do not feel a brother connection to one another or between eachothers' nations. I admit that entirely. That is a temporary situation that is going to change soon is what I am saying.

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