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Wednesday, May 03, 2017

Convergence killing NASCAR

TV ratings are "plummeting" and attendance is down more than 50 percent at some tracks:
NASCAR has seen crowds shrink at virtually every track, many of which have removed seats, and its television ratings have plummeted. At Richmond, which once routinely seated more than 100,000 fans for races in the premier Cup series, only 60,000 seats remain and they were not close to full for Sunday's 400-lap race.

"We're not isolated here," France said. "Every sport is trying to unlock the new consumption levels and fan interest by a younger demographic. Of course we love our core fan and everyone does, but every sport is thinking carefully about how to reach the millennial fan to get them excited about their sport."

He said NASCAR will convene a summit next month in Charlotte, North Carolina, bringing in experts from various fields, to discuss the issue.

France also downplayed the difficulty that some teams are having securing sponsorship for next season.
Many NASCAR fans warned of this when NASCAR decided to stop focusing on its core audience in order to reach out to the new fans who, as many predicted, proved to be almost entirely imaginary. And if you think NASCAR's management is going to learn from their catastrophic failure, then you really don't understand how SJW convergence works.

The NFL is about to go the same way, I strongly suspect. Notice how, whether it is a sport or a church, the desire for growth combined with a disdain for traditional supporters always results in the same consequence, a rapid and unexpected decline.

That's something that I was discussing yesterday with Markku. Is it better to restrict the comments and only permit the old school Dread Ilk to participate? That could be done through requiring registration, but doing so might be of limited value since others could still read them, unlike the current separate system. Or is it better to go to the other extreme and permit the sort of free-for-all we witnessed yesterday?

Feel free to express your opinion. I'm not currently planning to change anything, but it would be foolish to assume that VP and Castalia House are immune from the same pattern we observe everywhere from the Episcopalian Church to NASCAR.

Of course, it's also possible that we are several orders of magnitude away from it being even a potential problem.

Labels: ,

240 Comments:

1 – 200 of 240 Newer› Newest»
Blogger SouthRon May 03, 2017 8:06 AM  

NASCAR is going to meet in the gayest city in North Carolina to discuss the issue. Yeah, this will end well. Double down and accelerate into the curve.

Blogger Michael Maier May 03, 2017 8:07 AM  

Yesterday wasn't good or even funny. It was a little painful to read all that dreck. It's your house and I like the way you've run it lately.

Anonymous Lawyer Guy May 03, 2017 8:09 AM  

Late 90s/early 00s NASCAR wanted new safety devices. Inventive small cos, including one that was a client, sent in their designs to NASCARs designated lab for approval.

They stole the designs and had them made by their buttbuddies down south. My guys came to me afterward, we had a pretty decent lawsuit teed up, and the southern scum said if we sued they would ban all their products from all racing teams.

Never went to an event, never bought a sticker or toy car or a box of NASCAR ammo again.

They already had a few thousand people telling 'dirtball NASCAR' stories before they decided to go SJW, glad to see going PC hurt them even worse.

Blogger Orville May 03, 2017 8:14 AM  

Converging is stupid, but converging during an economic downturn is retarded.

1100 plus comments. Noise to signal ratio was off the charts. I've been here about ten years and over the last two years I've seen a decline in the quality of commentators, but it's still nothing like Zerohedge which is the gold standard for useless comments. I hope you keep some kind of standards. If not jacket and tie required, then at least shirt and shoes required.

Blogger The Kurgan May 03, 2017 8:14 AM  

Requiring registration would make it easy to kick out spammers, trolls and so on. You have a base of probably a couple hundred solid readers who may not be all ilk but are regulars old enough to be known.

Probably two times that actually. Applications for registration can be sorted say once a quarter to add any potentials.

It would probably reduce your admin time cinsiderably. I'd be for it.

Blogger exfarmkid May 03, 2017 8:17 AM  

Vox, what do you think is so off about your commenting policy? What you are doing now seems to work. Granted, I have no idea how much pain and blood it takes from the editors.....

Blogger Ken Prescott May 03, 2017 8:18 AM  

Helps if you can type with pinkies extended. (c8

Anonymous Zophiel May 03, 2017 8:24 AM  

I've been reading this blog since November, and generally have enjoyed the comments as well. However you've been handling the rubbish seems to be working well, yesterday excepted. But I wouldn't be against registering: Border Security is a Good Thing.

Blogger Shimshon May 03, 2017 8:25 AM  

The poop touching went to 11.

Blogger J A Baker May 03, 2017 8:26 AM  

They wanted to use NASCAR as a way to change the values, opinions and beliefs of the largely conservative audience. Did they succeed? Maybe, liberals don't watch NASCAR, so maybe they did, but either way they destroyed the sport.

Anonymous Vlad the Impaler was right May 03, 2017 8:27 AM  

I have been lurking for nearly year. I have never posted as I had anything significant to add. I think the comments as you have been doing them work well. The small amount of trolling allowed is useful to see what sets off the flak, even.

If it is too much work to maintain in any sense, by all means restrict it further.

I found yesterday's open thread entertaining, but if was every comment section I wouldn't read them anymore. Maybe as a weekly or monthly thing to let off some of the pressure?

Blogger Shimshon May 03, 2017 8:29 AM  

Vox, all I care about are:

1. Drain the wall.

2. Build the swamp.

Whatever better achieves those two goals is the optimal solution.

Anonymous WinstonWebb May 03, 2017 8:32 AM  

Re comments & policing:
Whatever allows the easiest utility to you and the admins while still allowing me to read my favorite posters. I probably would not register, but would still be an avid reader.

Blogger Shimshon May 03, 2017 8:34 AM  

Yesterday looked fun (and unlike certain others, I did skim through all the comments), but tedious. I'm old school. But stick to span/ban. Whatever you do, do NOT disemvowel. Gay.

Anonymous Grayman May 03, 2017 8:35 AM  

VD

perhaps a reputation system of some sort. The Dread-ilk have the ability to score posts, negative net scores get auto-blocked.
It would be constructive to have some way for newer folks to earn the ability to openly post as well as a consequence system. As a game designer, that is probably trivial for you. perhaps something like a $5 donation required for the initial registration, something minimal, but enough to deter the trolls and various other hooligans.

As someone who hasnt been around all that long I find your blog very educational in the posts, the comments, as well as learning from responses to my posts. Thanks for your efforts.

Blogger Servant May 03, 2017 8:36 AM  

4chan became wildly popular through a combination of anonymity and measured molding.

The measured modding is gone now. 4chan is overmodded.

I find the comments here interesting to read, and certainly appreciate a certain Koran burner getting his leash jerked. Modding level is about right. I think sometimes a certain blogger rips someone's skull off and throws it in the pile without really reading their post, but I understand his frustration. I've seen enough crap lead to a ban I don't need to be shown a reason when I see someone get banned here.

This post is too long. Tldr great modding. also is not a conservation venue. You might think about opening a true board if you want to unrestrict commentary. As an experiment.

Blogger M. Bibliophile May 03, 2017 8:39 AM  

Yesterday was fun, but mostly because it was such a contrast to business as usual. Like the man said, your house, your rules, but I rather like your moderation according to rules and have since I started reading here during the SFWA flap.

As to the topic at hand, it's another example of pigs getting slaughtered: unlimited growth is an impossibility, but that doesn't stop organizations from from chasing it. To that end, they start to drift away from their core audience, assuming that those folks simply can't do without their product, and put all their attention on the margins. When these show ever diminishing returns, they put even more energy into them and neglect or even scorn their core rather than simply take them for granted. Then, once they have completely converged, they wonder where the audience they spurned in favor of the ephemeral margins disappeared off to. Of course, they'll never admit it was their own fault, so they blame that core constituency for being disloyal or unprogressive, never admitting it was they who left, not the audience.

Social Justice Convergence is a bitch, but it's almost like it's a law or something...

Blogger Big Bob May 03, 2017 8:43 AM  

I hope you continue the moderated comments. I have been reading your blog for years and I have always appreciated it when a post generates intelligent debate in the comment section. I feel I have learned a great deal not just from your posts, but also from the related commentary. Any time the comment thread goes off the rails I just give up and wait for the next post.

I rarely feel like I have anything substantial to contribute to the discussion, but I appreciate the discussion nonetheless.

Anonymous Faceless May 03, 2017 8:43 AM  

I watched, and I collected the cars, and I got really into the technicals. I could tell you the engineering advantage of the placement of the new water pump on the Chevy "Impala" Hendrick cars, and I fell into the habit of calling them "Hendrick's".

The clear sign of thge beginning of the end for me was how they treated Kurt Busch's DUI. I was a fan of the 97 Sharpie. Kurt was unapologetic. He was not personally likeable. He did his job and he won the championship. And, for image reasons, they flushed his merchandise down the drain. Roush Racing would rather win plaudits in the press than win races and trophies.

It was the last flowering of the old-style racer with Penske surging, and with Brad Keselowski being again unapologetic, using the F-word in his first post-championship interview.

Yet, the writing was on the wall. They talked about Komen. They made the drivers wear pink. They had the Red Hot Chili Peppers as the artist for the year. They made pretend that Michelle Obama gave a care about wounded soldiers. They did their diversity push with Danica Patrick, while pretending that the handful of southern girls weren't really there because you could hear Alabama when they talked.

There was too much in-your-face push on things. Darrel Waltrip was put out there like a monkey on a chain. We're suppose to believe that Bubba Wallace is facing the same struggles as Wendell Scott - not with a multi-million-dollar media campaign and sponsorship package he isn't. It's just like how Tony Stewart was not the Polish Prince - they mock their history by pretending what's new is what's old, but more extreme, because they also compete in the victim olympics.

I haven't watched a race or bought merchandise in years. I tuned in to see one last weekend out of morbid curiosity. All I heard was discussion about "stage points" - clearly, they are trying to turn NASCAR scoring into public school so that the girls can get participation points when all that matters is winning the race - and they kept complaining that drivers weren't "in the box" to go to pit road - yet one more change of rules to add "excitement" by creating more ways to game the race.

They have bled it dry trying to appeal to women and minorities, when there were actual women and minorities who followed the old style racing, and pandering will leave them empty handed - which they deserve for having taken all the joy out of it and turned it into social messaging.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 03, 2017 8:47 AM  

With the TV ratings down there goes my theory of boomers like myself sitting down in front of the stupidvision instead of sitting in traffic for hours at a race track as I did in the past.

I'll lay the blame of killing off the NFL on Kurt Cobain, he made the outcasts the new ingroup and the jocks and cheerleaders the outgroup.

Blogger Dave May 03, 2017 8:50 AM  

Agree with exfarmkid and it's not as if we have to wade through 1,000's of comments on each post. But it's true we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

Of the 1100-comment post yesterday, hundreds of posts were by the mods. Of course those were the best comments but the free-for-all was rather tame I thought. Perhaps next time more notice would help.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2017 8:52 AM  

Back Street Boys were more popular than Nirvana, Mr. MantraMan, and the inventors of the Winston Cup just banned outdoor smoking. Something else is afoot.

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2017 8:52 AM  

> Is it better to restrict the comments and only permit the old school Dread Ilk to participate? That could be done through requiring registration, but doing so might be of limited value since others could still read them, unlike the current separate system. Or is it better to go to the other extreme and permit the sort of free-for-all we witnessed yesterday?

Are we allowed to be moderates on the issue? :)

Seriously, by and large the way things are now seems about right.

Blogger Johnny May 03, 2017 8:53 AM  

VD,

As long as you are willing to do the work, run it the way you run it. Within that context I would favor loosening up a little, but not a free for all.

Blogger Joshua_D May 03, 2017 8:54 AM  

The People Make The Place. As far as comments, either you restrict them to the Ilk, or the comment section becomes worthless as all the poop slingers come in and sling poop all over the place.

Blogger Jack Aubrey May 03, 2017 8:54 AM  

If VP or Castalia House could be converged, there would be little hope for anyone else.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass May 03, 2017 8:55 AM  

Been here since '10 (under a different name, albeit). Do as you wish Supreme Dark Lord. We'll fall in line.

NASCAR's convergence is sad to see: I only ever went to the Brickyard 400 and haven't been in close to a decade. Still, it's one more part of Americana being converged and lost. They won't stop until we're dust under their boots.

Blogger mapster68 May 03, 2017 9:01 AM  

So they will bring in "experts" from "various fields". They're screwed already.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 03, 2017 9:03 AM  

Vox Popoli is the most coherent widely-read blog I visit. There's a balance between Full Echo Chamber (common to Hard Left blogs) and Open Season (where every thread surpasses 100 comments within minutes of posting.) FWIW I rarely comment on Open Season forums b/c no "dialog" is possible. On such forums the comments quickly erode in value to zero.

How you've obtained that balance in the past (good and proper number of moderators, etc.) is outside my purview. The results have been good in my opinion.

We all look mostly for confirmation bias in what we read. The value I obtain is thus at the margins of my preconceptions. That is where I learn and expand my understanding. This is why I can't learn much if anything from Youtube comments or Breitbart comments. Where the full range of discussion reaches what I deem idiocy in both directions, the marginal insight (for me) is simply lost in a sea of white noise.

Put me down as favoring a continuation of what makes this blog what it is.

Anonymous J. J. May 03, 2017 9:04 AM  

I'll lay the blame of killing off the NFL on Kurt Cobain, he made the outcasts the new ingroup and the jocks and cheerleaders the outgroup.

Bingo. Or as a geeky friend of mine put it sometime in the 90's, with giddy wonder and a sparkle in his eye, "Alternative music in the mainstreaming of Geekdom!!!".

Yay. Just what society needed at that time... rock music that was less macho.

Anonymous Man of the Atom May 03, 2017 9:04 AM  

By your command, Supreme Dark Lord!

Blogger LonestarWhacko May 03, 2017 9:07 AM  

I read the blog 2-3 times or more if I'm interested. Seems just fine with the moderation as is. No whining, no defeatism. Alt right is all that's going to be left. I generally lurk.... someone else generally says what I would say.

Anonymous Rollory May 03, 2017 9:08 AM  

I (almost) never comment anywhere that requires me to login in order to comment. (The one significant exception being a couple years when I was reading Gates of Vienna) I don't comment here very often, but I've been reading since 2006 or so.

It's been my experience that places that restrict commenting to logins are just significantly less interesting and definitely feel as though they are not very open to counterargument.

As for the free for all, I scanned through about a quarter of it. I did not find it particularly less useful, interesting, or readable, than the usual tenor of comments here. The last blog I read where I found the comments to be exceptionally worthwhile was Mangan's.

Make of all that what you will.

Anonymous Azimus May 03, 2017 9:09 AM  

VD:
Feel free to express your opinion.


Well, what would George Soros want you to do? Then please do the opposite!

As someone who does not see how much work the moderators put in, IMO the door should stay wide open - no registration. The quickest way to lose relevance and get ossified is for a bunch of fogeys to cloister at the country club and congratulate each other on how brilliant their ideas are, accepting no scrutiny from outside the club, if at all.

That said I have no idea how hard our guardian angels/moderators are fighting to keep this forum open - it might be a ludicrous amount of work to expect someone to volunteer to do - so I defer to their more informed judgement.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein May 03, 2017 9:09 AM  

Brian France is an idiot.

Moving the Labor Day weekend Southern 500 from Darlington to California made New Coke look like marketing genius.

The Chase format is stupid.

I miss Rockingham and North Wilkesboro.

Anonymous Claymore May 03, 2017 9:10 AM  

Give SJWs an inch, and they will take a mile.

Blogger Sentient Spud May 03, 2017 9:11 AM  

Re: comments

Limiting comments with a quality filter sounds like a decent solution. While yesterday's free for all was entertaining, Zerohedging the comments kills their value.

Re: NASCAR

Used to watch NASCAR when I was a kid. Stopped watching in the early 2000s when they started turning it into a TV drama. Before they transitioned, it was all about the racing. The further they moved away from that, the less appealing the product became.

Watched some qualifying the other day where they spent 20 minutes talking about some new requirement teams were having trouble with that was bumping them from races. 5 minutes was about all the rules. 15 was about how different teams felt about them.

So I switched them off and started looking for some GT races, where they actually prioritize the racing.

Blogger Rob May 03, 2017 9:12 AM  

And if you think NASCAR's management is going to learn from their catastrophic failure, then you really don't understand how SJW convergence works.

SJWs would rather die than think, or even rethink.

"The Narrative" MUST be maintained at all costs, up to and including their (and everyone else's) lives.

When you realize that, you'll understand just how dangerous SJWs are.

Blogger Phat Repat May 03, 2017 9:12 AM  

VD States: That's something that I was discussing yesterday with Markku. Is it better to restrict the comments and only permit the old school Dread Ilk to participate? That could be done through requiring registration, but doing so might be of limited value since others could still read them, unlike the current separate system. Or is it better to go to the other extreme and permit the sort of free-for-all we witnessed yesterday?

Feel free to express your opinion. I'm not currently planning to change anything, but it would be foolish to assume that VP and Castalia House are immune from the same pattern we observe everywhere from the Episcopalian Church to NASCAR.


I once belonged to another group that had a similar dilemma with trolling (which you aptly demonstrated). A fine group with some outliers and a few quacks. Nonetheless, a decision was made at some point to restrict membership to paid subscription only. Now, I had been there for a couple years, at least, and since I knew the positions of the most prominent posters I decided there was little to no value in joining. In essence, by limiting the blog to those that are the 'believers' they had become, wait for it, an Echo Chamber. :-D Now, I'm not saying that will happen here, but...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 03, 2017 9:13 AM  

And the NFL and the NCAA are in full cuckdom over the "Black Athlete" putting football on the cusp of being a joke.

Blogger Chad Olson May 03, 2017 9:13 AM  

I like the comment policy the way it is. On occasion, the comments are more interesting than the original post. This is my favorite site on the internet though, so I am biased.

NASCAR had too much testosterone. They can have all the meetings they want. Things are going to plan for the conver "gents".

The free for all post had some fun in it - inside jokes and such. A few chuckles and some steam blown off aint a bad thing.

Blogger JP May 03, 2017 9:15 AM  

Which NASCAR meet was it where they banned smoking on the premises? Like, "y'all go ahead and burn all that leaded gasoline, but SO HELP ME GOD, if anyone smokes a cigarette..."

Anonymous Raptor disrespect from behind May 03, 2017 9:16 AM  

I figured yesterday was a honeypot exercise. VD and co was looking for IPs to ban.

Blogger ZhukovG May 03, 2017 9:16 AM  

The, 'Let a hundred poop-shrooms blossom' thread yesterday was.... interesting. Hopefully we've gotten that out of our system. I prefer the way moderation has been applied recently, but this is not my domain.

Look for our enemies to redouble their efforts in all areas where they have influence. This is an opportunity for us, as our enemies show a strong tendency to overplay their hand. They also appear to remain blissfully unaware of exactly how much trouble they are in.

Deo Vindice

Anonymous J. J. May 03, 2017 9:17 AM  

Notice how, whether it is a sport or a church, the desire for growth combined with a disdain for traditional supporters always results in the same consequence, a rapid and unexpected decline.

Pray for me. As an elder of a small (but strong core) church, I sometimes feel like I am the only one standing against the temptations of "church growth models" (aka "seeker sensitive movement", "felt needs ministry", etc.). Of course the church is supposed to grow, but by the God's methods, not man's. Martin Luther famously said (I'm paraphrasing) that "Melancthon and I sat around drinking beer while the Word worked its way across Germany". I read an article recently about the 50 largest megachurches in the country. I think I only came up with 4 that I might consider attending. It's no wonder the Church is on the precipice of a rapid decline (you know the stats, 25% of millennials don't identify with a particular religion and all that)... the majority of the choices out there are saccharine crap imitations of church, not actual church.

Blogger JP May 03, 2017 9:20 AM  

VFM #6306 wrote:and the inventors of the Winston Cup just banned outdoor smoking

Ah yes, that one. Pardon my French, but the fucking WINSTON cup doesn't allow smoking.

Anonymous John Hancock May 03, 2017 9:20 AM  

It's the Flynn Effect. Ar, ar, ar.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 03, 2017 9:20 AM  

Re: NASCAR, I await the results of this vast experiment. My hypothesis is threefold:

1. Capital consumption disguised by the Credit Bubble and Great Asset Mania is impoverishing people enough that costly marginal entertainment will be curtailed, so any non-essential is slated for decline.
2. Social fragmenting is reducing people's desire to participate in mass-market or massed bodies events, and will eventually gut everything from shopping malls, rock concerts & sporting events to eating at restaurants. We're one good food scare or pandemic scare from seeing people avoid...crowds of any kind.
3. Social fragmentation is bringing to the surface all sorts of friction points. SJW's are thus impelled to ram their sacraments down anyone's throat they can access, and their customers are rapidly finding that not just objectionable, but a near-rationale for mass murder. The "politics" of every seller of every single thing are becoming important to every buyer. Neither side can stop this impulsive evaluation, so markets for everything are set to fragment. People will pay more to buy not only "American" but to buy only from those who share their political viewpoints. And sellers will commit sepuku rather than sell to people they hate.

If my hypothesis is supported by events, then when stocks get into a large bear market, all of the mass-market and social-collectivist group-event, mass-minded institutions of the last 50 years will all but disappear. My poster-child for this? Rock concerts. Only a few musical groups produce what I'd call "good" music in a live format. Most of them today sound amazingly better in recordings of studio productions. The primary reason people attend concerts is the mass-minded effect of experiencing the event surrounded by other people, which in most instances I liken to bees and their hive experience.

[My personal exception is live musical theater. For example, the Chicago run of Wicked featured performances that exceeded the studio recordings of the Broadway cast.]

Blogger Sambuca Ford May 03, 2017 9:21 AM  

#I'll lay the blame of killing off the NFL on Kurt Cobain, he made the outcasts the new ingroup and the jocks and cheerleaders the outgroup."

Yes, I'm heartless but was never happier to hear about a suicide/homicide than of that talentless fuck.

Bristol was sold out for years until Boy France started listening to Madison Ave. CoT, boy band drivers, and convergence. The Bristol spring race was two weeks ago - 35k-40k in a 160k capacity track looks as bad as you think it might. It was a rainout but the spring and fall races have been declining for years.

Of course, Danica never ran higher than the late 20s and DNF so she's already in midseason form.

Have read VD since the WND column and see no convergence signs here.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2017 9:21 AM  

Oh, just a little-known event called the BRICKYARD 400, that's who banned smoking.

Anonymous Revan May 03, 2017 9:21 AM  

I rarely comment, but I enjoy reading the exchanges between posters and I don't think it is necessary to even worry about whether or not it is an echo chamber. If anyone wants to engage with the opposition there are many other venues for that, simply take the ideas and arguments seen here and use them elsewhere.

Blogger sconzey May 03, 2017 9:22 AM  

My experience has been that the more curated the comment section, the higher the quality of the comments, and the more I've enjoyed reading them.

At one end of the scale we have Larry Auster who used to curate discussions out of emails he was sent. On the other... Zerohedge. In between we have places like this and Scott Alexander's Slate Star Codex. Scott is quite free with the banhammer but as a result the comment section is very polite and quite interesting.

Blogger Koanic May 03, 2017 9:24 AM  

The current octagon exhibits the four pillars of masculinity:

Strength
Courage
Mastery
Honor.

Blogger sconzey May 03, 2017 9:24 AM  

I should add that if closing comments to non-Dread-Ilk substantially improves the quality I would still enjoy reading them, even though I would not be able to participate in the discussion.

Blogger Servant May 03, 2017 9:25 AM  

@jj

You have my prayers. Leonard ravenhill was fond of saying, "you don't have to advertise a fire"

Anonymous fop May 03, 2017 9:26 AM  

Nascar died with Dale.

Blogger Iron Spartan May 03, 2017 9:26 AM  

The mods seem to be doing an excellent job. I'm not seeing a reason to change the existing format.

Blogger ZhukovG May 03, 2017 9:28 AM  

@J.J.: You have my prayers. If you can gather a group of MEN, who are willing to learn and engage in lay evangelism, correctly presenting Christianity as the masculine faith that it is, I believe the Holy Spirit will bless you with more growth than you can 'humanly' handle.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 03, 2017 9:28 AM  

@45 J. J.
I think you're mistaken. Paradoxically, young people today SAY they're moving secular, but that trend seems likely to reverse. Hardship drives internal validation (at least I hope so) and we appear (to me) to be set for a rapid change from obsession with external validation (conspicuous consumption & virtue signaling) to a rapid rise in pursuit of spiritual wealth.

While my term "spiritual wealth" subsumes far more than overt religion, traditionalist kinds of Christianity seem a likely pole to exhibit greater attraction in such times.

Every spirit needs a guide.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer May 03, 2017 9:28 AM  

Sentient Spud wrote:



Watched some qualifying the other day where they spent 20 minutes talking about some new requirement teams were having trouble with that was bumping them from races. 5 minutes was about all the rules. 15 was about how different teams felt about them.

So I switched them off and started looking for some GT races, where they actually prioritize the racing.


What? You don't like endless discussion about how people trying to accomplish something are struggling with bureaucratic rule making?

It sounds like they are directly over their target SJWs favorite things but still can't rope them in. It's almost like SJWs hate southerners and their past times.

Blogger Chiva May 03, 2017 9:29 AM  

This is a community. A community generated by VD and the Dread Ilk initially, but expanding to include like minded individuals. A community that draws a certain type of people. A community with its own norms and quirks. Civilized communities are hard grow, and even harder to keep civilized.
As with any other civilized community if there is no 'policing' then that community will get overrun by those who are not part of the community.

Anonymous Stochastic Persiflage May 03, 2017 9:31 AM  

How about the way NASCAR boned Confederate flag supporters.

Blogger Dave May 03, 2017 9:31 AM  

Nascar stopped using leaded gas years ago. I'd be very surprised if they outlawed smoking in the infield as if that would even be possible to enforce. I could understand banning smoking in the stands and pits.

Brian France is not his father Bill. Like so many family run businesses, the kids never measure up to their parents. Bill France made Nascar what it was; Brian is flailing about just trying to keep it afloat.

Anonymous Just another commenter May 03, 2017 9:32 AM  

Part of the reason the NRA (National Rifle Association) has been around for more than 140 years and is still a potent political force is that they have focused on their core issue - GUNS! - to the exclusion of all else. To be sure, they've focused on different aspects of guns and shooting at different times, but they have not let themselves get drawn into any other "conservative" issue like abortion or military adventurism. They just keep focusing on guns and shooting. As a member of the NRA, I don't have to worry about promoting or denigrating some other issue as a "side benefit" in opposition to MY position. You buy an NRA membership, you support guns and shooting; it says nothing about your position on drugs, seatbelt laws, women's rights, race relations, or smoking.

You can't publish books targeted at non-readers and expand your readership.... because they don't read, and marketing and only go so far. NASCAR (which I've never been interested in) should do the same: focus on core demo and product, the rest will take care of itself.

Anonymous kfg May 03, 2017 9:32 AM  

" . . . the inventors of the Winston Cup just banned outdoor smoking."

I remember Grand National racing, the Firecracker 400 and tracks named for where they were.

You have a point about the smoking, but to be fair, Imperial Tobacco invented the Winston Cup. NASCAR just took the money.

Blogger Nate May 03, 2017 9:32 AM  

i don't believe its Convergence that is killing NASCAR. Its the Dread Harvard Business Model. If Its Not Growing Its Dying.

The same people run NASCAR as have always run it. Bill France and his family. It was Bill who pushed to expand it into the North and West Coast... it was France who insisted on "civilizing" it to make it more palatable to the yankee socialites.

NASCAR exploded in the 60s and 70s because you just never knew what the crazy rednecks were going to do out there. There would be fights on pit road almost every week. Feuds settled by giant wrecks on the track... it was awesome.

In the name of growth... they got rid of all of that.

To emphasize how stupid that was... it would be like Jerry Springer reworking his whole show to appeal to new york city socialites.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 03, 2017 9:33 AM  

IMO I think the racing is better now than it has been and the convergence is muted as compared to the Cucking over the NFL and SEC football.

Even that hellhole ESPN a few years ago produced a decent documentary about the roots of NASCAR that did not devolve into the usual lecture on isms, ists and phobias. They did go gooey over the CBF but for that bit of SJW convergence I lay partial blame on Southerners, most who fly it at the races look like they could not even walk up Cemetary Ridge without passing out.

Blogger mgh May 03, 2017 9:33 AM  

When selling a product that is a discretionary purchase, growing the customer base inevitably ruins the product. It is why globalism fails. Economies of scale works great for commodities, but has diminishing to negative returns for discretionary items.

Blogger JP May 03, 2017 9:34 AM  

Dave wrote:Nascar stopped using leaded gas years ago.

I didn't know that. My point stands though.

Blogger Nate May 03, 2017 9:35 AM  

"IMO I think the racing is better now than it has been and the convergence is muted as compared to the Cucking over the NFL and SEC football."

The racing has never been more boring. the CoT is a disaster and was never anything but a disaster from the very start.

Anonymous BBGKB May 03, 2017 9:38 AM  

Just wait until they let niggerette racers start early for affirmative action.

its core audience in order to reach out to the new fans who, as many predicted, proved to be almost entirely imaginary.

I wonder if the Red Cross has seen as many non Asian minorities give blood as appear in their posters?

Ah yes, that one. Pardon my French, but the fucking WINSTON cup doesn't allow smoking.

While I didn't people used to be able to drink/smoke in hospitals.

Blogger Nate May 03, 2017 9:38 AM  

" Or is it better to go to the other extreme and permit the sort of free-for-all we witnessed yesterday?"

Felt like home.

Blogger JACIII May 03, 2017 9:38 AM  

Hell,try it.

It can't be worse than cocomment!

Blogger Elocutioner May 03, 2017 9:41 AM  

NASCAR - Everything became about parity and yet Jimmie Johnson kept winning championships despite repeatedly being caught for cheating. The system was obviously rigged. Then they kept screwing with the race format and DW is an annoying idiot. Haven't looked back. I'd much rather go to the local dirt track.

Commenting - The mods do a great job. Fresh blood brings fresh perspectives, I'd rather leave it as is.

Blogger Dave May 03, 2017 9:42 AM  

Actually some weeks back there were punches thrown on pit road by the drivers after a race. That's all I remember because as soon as I heard them talking about Nascar I changed the channel.

Anonymous kfg May 03, 2017 9:42 AM  

"The racing has never been more boring."

It's not just NASCAR. The last time I attended a major, professional sports car race, paying a wad of money that in other days would have let me in for the season, I spent most of the day watching a kart club meeting in the infield. Best damned racing I'd seen in years.

The lawyers, MBAs, marketeers and other assorted weasels have extracted everything about racing out of racing.

Blogger Koanic May 03, 2017 9:43 AM  

I see a bright future for NASCAR, once it adapts to Balkanization by adopting elements of Mad Max, Le Mans, and the American pioneer ethnic cleansing spirit.

Anonymous veryfunnyminion May 03, 2017 9:44 AM  

M. Bibliophile wrote:As to the topic at hand, it's another example of pigs getting slaughtered: unlimited growth is an impossibility, but that doesn't stop organizations from from chasing it. To that end, they start to drift away from their core audience, assuming that those folks simply can't do without their product, and put all their attention on the margins. When these show ever diminishing returns, they put even more energy into them and neglect or even scorn their core rather than simply take them for granted. Then, once they have completely converged, they wonder where the audience they spurned in favor of the ephemeral margins disappeared off to. Of course, they'll never admit it was their own fault, so they blame that core constituency for being disloyal or unprogressive, never admitting it was they who left, not the audience.

Were you trying to describe the Republican party to a T or was it just coincidence?

Anonymous Bz May 03, 2017 9:45 AM  

Two things to notice.

First, the genius strategy of broading the audience of a success by diluting the experience seldom or never works. Yet the geniuses propose it and approve it, again and again.

Second, somehow this invites the SJW across the doorstep. Perhaps it's because there is a vacuum of values after you decided to dilute what people liked? And after that, the whole show revolves about SJW pet political obsessions, which nobody wants to hear about.

Result: You will circle the drain for a long time, in agony.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2017 9:47 AM  

NASCAR's roots are bootlegging, tobacco and the battle flag. Any of those three will get you tossed out on your ear.

NASCAR has become the National Review of motorsports.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 03, 2017 9:51 AM  

Presuming that convergence will (eventually) be a potential hazard here, Vox, how do you see registration as helping to curtail it? I can see it helping with various trolls, but I don't see it helping versus convergence without other measures being applied in conjunction.

Blogger Crave May 03, 2017 9:52 AM  

As a North Carolinian whose youthful Sundays included the Episcopal Church and watching Dale Earnhardt's black 3 car beat the brakes off folks, SJW convergence is the destroyer of those two institutions. We didn't have that convenient label back in the late 80's and early 90's, but we knew that the liberals were changing church doctrine, causing strife and dissatisfaction among the congregation. Even as a young teen then, I knew that changing the beliefs of a belief-based group meant that it was obviously not the same group thereafter. I haven't been an Episcopalian since then, and I've mostly gone church-less because I'm leery of the liberal, corrupting influence that we now label SJW convergence. My aversion to that convergence is why I stopped watching NASCAR long ago, and what has pushed me to a political perspective that most accurately interprets my experiences with a reasoned and coherent argument. Something that finally pushes back.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable May 03, 2017 9:53 AM  

Yesterday was horrible. I laughed my guts out at every tenth post, and Markku, Matthew and Nate outdid themselves in entertainingly going over the top, and Rabbi B showed up more than he has in a while, which is always a plus ... but I'd never want to see VP go that direction.

Registration would be cool with me, as Vox has all my info through multiple avenues at this point and I trust you guys to keep it to yourselves. It might make for better engagement, but with the limitations it would place on participation, we might lose something good. I guess I'd have to see it for a while to really evaluate it.

There is ZERO chance of convergence here, so long as Vox is still on the planet. The words "several orders of magnitude away" don't begin to cover it.

Anonymous BrerFox May 03, 2017 9:54 AM  

NASCAR has wandered far from its roots. I was never a big fan, but followed for the sake of conversation with myself more engaged family members. They mostly lost interest when the rules and structure started changing every other season, and likewise I disengaged from it. I don't think my family is atypical in that.

The moderation here​ so far has been excellent, over the several years I've been reading. I wouldn't mind a registration/subscription/ limited access model, even if I couldn't get access personally. I do think some insightful comments and discussion have been spawned by drive by poop, but I can't say if that's worth the moderation work load.

Blogger JohnofAustria May 03, 2017 9:56 AM  

No, your current system works well enough to keep regulars who are interested coming back and allow for new folks to ask questions and get input, while keeping out the riff-raff

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable May 03, 2017 9:56 AM  

One question that occurs to me is this: how much moderating time would registration save you? If that time is significant, and if it could be used on Castalia, Infogalactic or even Sea of Skulls (or for Matt and Markku, the other things you're involved in), then sign me up right now. Gotta maximize the limited resources here.

Blogger praetorian May 03, 2017 9:57 AM  

Or is it better to go to the other extreme and permit the sort of free-for-all we witnessed yesterday?

I prefer moderated comments.

If someone is willing to put in the work (and I can volunteer to work on this) then a comments system based on reputation graphs (and w/ decent threading, like unz) would be great. Especially if it were released open source and could take a chunk out of Disqus.

Anonymous Rocklea May 03, 2017 10:02 AM  

I like your blog, I like the books I've read from Castalia House and I like the Darkstream (more would be good, you're better than you think IMHO).

I found you're work through Stefan Molyneux. I've used many of his arguments in meat space for years. After his work on IQ, HBD and his encounter with you, things changed for me. I had to leave the autistic ancap world. Very disorientating. Your debate with Bob Murphy on Tom Woods show sealed the deal. I find myself using your arguments and those of the commenters here frequently and with positive response.

The 16 points of the alt-right are a rock, uncompromising, and essential for whats coming. I still listen to Stef and value his body of work as a counter balance, heart if you will, people matter as well as culture and identity.

You're blog, you're rules, I'll keep reading.

Blogger cheddarman May 03, 2017 10:04 AM  

Free for all!

Blogger Old Ez May 03, 2017 10:05 AM  

The commenting system on this site, aside from the god-awful courier font in the text box, is probably the best format imo. The moderation here is top notch because comments that are entirely critical, but still honest and civil, are always allowed to stand. There are many websites, ones that happen to be closer to me personally in terms of political outlook, the brook much less dissent that VP does. There's always a line to be walked between demonstrating fitness and resilience by ignoring he insignificant yappers and allowing the yappers to create an atmosphere where no good commentary gets through the noise.

"Even a lion can be taken down by a pack of mangy dogs".

Blogger Old Ez May 03, 2017 10:05 AM  

Maybe an edit feature would be nice for us slovenly typers :)

OpenID vfmshadow0342 May 03, 2017 10:17 AM  

I guess I missed the free-for-all yesterday, but the current level of moderation is fine by me.

BTW, are comments on VP restricted to Brave users only? Seems like my comments get eaten when using any other browser.

Anonymous cherub's revenge May 03, 2017 10:18 AM  

Support your local dirt track, the beer's cheaper and the racing's better.
Farmer City IL has 20k to win dirt late models next week Saturday.

Any given weekend and even some weekdays in the Summer, you can catch the Posse putting on a 410 winged Sprint show at Williams Grove, Selinsgrove, Port Royal, Susquehanna, and Lincoln all in Pennsylvania.

World of Outlaws and Lucas Late Models touring the country and the WOO Winged Sprints too. USAC midgets, sprints and Silver Crown tours.

See a race at Kokomo, Terre Haute, Springfield Mile and Du Quoin where Andretti and AJ Foyt all slung clods over the wall.

And if you like your small town Americana trapped in amber, you have to hit Fairbury American Legion Speedway in late July for the 30k to win Prairie Dirt Classic. The whole town's there, many of them volunteering for the non-profit black dirt track in the middle town. MAGA hats welcome. A close second to this atmosphere is the Knoxville (IA) Nationals at the fairground's half mile for winged sprints.

If you absolutely can't stand to take a shower after a night at the races, hit up pavement at Sandusky OH, Toledo or Oswego, NY to see the wildest machine ever put to asphalt - the big block Super Modified.

Any given weekend across America a father can take two kids, go see a race, grab some hot dogs, a few beers and Cokes and maybe a pork chop sandwich and still put change in his pocket from a 50. And not just bombers but fully fabricated race cars running full on aluminum engines making 800 hp without a SJW or any diversity to enrich them in sight.

Blogger Shadiley May 03, 2017 10:18 AM  

Is there a (((Bettman))) at the helm? If you ever want to bond with a leaf, mention a pre-Bettman NHL.

OpenID rufusdog May 03, 2017 10:19 AM  

The two golden rules of commenting should be.

Stay on topic.
Be interesting.

However the comments are dealt with, if it were me, my focus would be on minimizing the time spent moderating them. On a functional level that probably means clear rules and quickly banning violators…operating on the assumption that banning is effective. I assume that after a brief stint of ruthless banning things would self-correct.

Blogger Shadiley May 03, 2017 10:20 AM  

8chan is getting that way.

Blogger DeploraBard May 03, 2017 10:22 AM  

The blog is still the primary source of your exposure. You are well known through out most of the sites I read. Been here since 05. Moderation seems to be working. New voices are not a bad thing as long as they are sincere. Castalia and Alt tech need to grow outside to alt lite. Restricting comments may make newbies feel they can't be part of the change. 2C

Blogger Mr Traumaboyy May 03, 2017 10:23 AM  

I hunt gators every year with a former Daytona 500 winner. He told me the push was to weed out the older guys and replace them with 18 year old heart throbs to sell the sport to Women. The pressure was being applied through the Sponsors who are all Nascar partners. I look at my autographed #3 on the mantle with disgust!!

Blogger Freeholder May 03, 2017 10:24 AM  

I am probably ones that would be on the bubble is the registration is audited. While I have lurked for years now. I have only posted a couple of times giving that I was in a very fragile state (getting less fragile by the day.) I would vote register even if I am caught on the outside. Quantity being a Quality of its own is a way to send mass numbers of men to their deaths. Better to be smart.

Blogger BunE22 May 03, 2017 10:25 AM  

If I have to slog through open replies to find the poop-free posts I'll just stop reading replies. As it is I often skip the replies that are longer than Vox's original post.

Blogger Shadiley May 03, 2017 10:25 AM  

I blame beer marketing for increased estrogen making convergence possible in the first place. Strange Brew was a warning.

Anonymous Critically Bent May 03, 2017 10:26 AM  

@72

Wow, you hit it on the head.

I wondered why I couldn't tear my eyes away from that thread.

I bounced onto here from a WND column right after the initial Japanese invasion discussion and Bane's death (if I remember correctly, that was a long time ago).

I made a stupid comment about the Manhattan project or some such, and was immediately schooled about the dropping of the atomic bomb and how Japan had actually offered to surrender four times before.

I went and found the headline about the surrender offers, and I was hooked here. These people knew stuff that I didn't. I wanted to know more.

The comment section of this blog has been spectacularly informative and educational for me. As I think VD once found out with a survey (or perhaps he just surmised it from observation), the average IQ here has been traditionally idiotically high. Also, the independence of the thinkers is incredibly useful as well.

I think VD should handle the comments in whatever way that ensures that he doesn't end up like Rape Rape, unable to finish his epic fantasy magnum opus due to stroking out because of a toxic combination of Babymetal and Blue Hawaiians and too tight Italian loafers.

Blogger Shadiley May 03, 2017 10:27 AM  

That reminds me, I haven't used my Metafilter account in years. Half the cost of being a goon IIRC.

Anonymous Northern Observer May 03, 2017 10:27 AM  

"it would be foolish to assume that VP and Castalia House are immune from the same pattern we observe everywhere from the Episcopalian Church to NASCAR."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've always avoided the idea that VP is a public platform in anyway. It's yours and and yours alone.

That aside, the idea of VP being infiltrated with SJWs the same way churches have been doesn't seem like a great analogy. For one, commenters aren't members, but also the comment section went from being very open to opposing ideas (and mocking other blogs that 'moderated' their comment sections for badthink) for most of it's existance to deleting comments for incorrect tone.

This isn't suggestion to change things back, I understand that one of the reasons why the Right has failed so often is their unwillingness to 'break the rules' while the Left has had no such self imposed restrictions.

It's only an observation. But you see the same patter elsewhere:
- SJW put their narrative and agenda ahead of quality of the story
- Wikipedia put their narrative and agenda ahead of the truth

I think that the change happened around the same time that you started your hard rejection of libertarianism. It's like there was some epiphany moment.

Was it the dinner in Paris?

Blogger Beau May 03, 2017 10:28 AM  

I miss the shark tank days. You'd be addressed in the manner you chose to address others. Hoity-toity types regularly got their oh-so-precious ideas and self-images smashed. Under the current rules of engagement, I withhold engaging ideas to abide not touching the poop. The old system did work; where are the screeching feminists? Where are the arguments over evidence? Where are the religion starts wars trolls? Gone. And didn't the messy epic beat downs prove fertile soil for a few of VD's books? Don't get me wrong, as a Christian profanity is abhorrent and dissimulation is noxious, but as a doctor of the soul, I'm willing to wade into the stink to effect a change of mind and heart. The old dojo ethos allowed people to sharpen their thinking, grow confidence, and earn their chops. The epic beat downs were great reads and instructive. I miss the mess.

Anonymous Viiidad May 03, 2017 10:30 AM  

The NFL lost me a few years back when they added emasculation month. Used to watch with my children but I just got sick of that and other nonsense. Football is one of the greatest games ever invented and they had to screw it up.

Blogger JACIII May 03, 2017 10:31 AM  

They probably thinks that is why F1 is popular.

Blogger Paul R May 03, 2017 10:32 AM  

I sort of work for NASCAR. Yes, the convergence is bad. The rebel flag thing was pathetic. Lots of women in the office - not producing anything, but doing a great job of throwing obstacles in the way of people that actually get work done. There's also a bit of a push to figure out a way to appeal to a broader range of people (ie minorities).

I kind of have a plan to jack with their heads with this Dale Jr retirement. I'm going to just constantly put it out there that the only reason he is so popular is because all the neo-nazis like him because his number is 88. Now that he's retiring, we're going to lose all our neo-nazi fans unless we really make a push to retain them! LOL

Blogger JACIII May 03, 2017 10:34 AM  

I think the NFL added all the "you can't touch the kicker" rules in anticipation of find some girl kickers.

That was enough for me.

Blogger Shadiley May 03, 2017 10:34 AM  

Might as well start calling it Motor Pool with all that bureaucracy.

Blogger Timmy3 May 03, 2017 10:36 AM  

NASCAR is simply boring. What's the point of watching cars racing endlessly around a track? I can't see the enjoyment. About as fun as watching baseball these days. The problem with football and basketball is the lack of diversity. It's mostly black players. If that's the best we got, then we should not cry about lack of interest. It seems sports is infected with the same problems of government, entertainment, and society.

Blogger Shadiley May 03, 2017 10:38 AM  

Yeah, and now they make people drag their IV pole down to the public road because they can't be satisfied with sensible indoor smoking bans, oh no.

Hospitals were converged decades ago.

Anonymous Rocklea May 03, 2017 10:40 AM  

Old Ez said:
"Maybe an edit feature would be nice for us slovenly typers :)"

I second this, though in my case, my 'your', 'you're' confusion in my previous comment, I put down to brain fog and time zone. 1230 am here in Oz.

As for Nascar, I used to record it and watch the crashes, the rest was dross. Probably too many university educated media experts who don't like cars. I've noticed the same trend in all sports. They are now 'Events', hell even cyclones(hurricanes) are 'Events' now in Australia. Our last cyclone was Debbie, much hilarity ensued as Debbie 'does' did various towns down the east coast.

Anonymous Looking Glass May 03, 2017 10:41 AM  

"He said NASCAR will convene a summit next month in Charlotte, North Carolina, bringing in experts from various fields, to discuss the issue."

1) Boot every SJW. On the spot.
2) Boot everyone with an MBA. On the spot.
3) Give yourself a month to get a handle on how much stupid you've been doing for years.

This works in most businesses. So much damage has been done by people with MBAs and 0 grasp of product delivery.


As to the comments section, while I'm new, Moderation is always need. Everywhere. Otherwise you create a situation where any "interested" party can ruin a place. At the same time, as a site grows, the quality always drops a bit. There's a certain comment pace that's most optimal for the best discussions. Somewhere around 10-15 comments an hour, I think. It gives time for thought-out responses. As the blog is popular enough, that's probably not doable now, as someone really need to invite a better ComBox system for high-volume comments sections.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 03, 2017 10:41 AM  

I think the current system (supplemented with my RSS filters) works about as well as can be expected, considering the limits of Blogger. I can see how it's susceptible to attack, though, so it might not suffice forever.

On registration: it doesn't have to mean locking down participation to Dreak Ilk only (though it could). It can just mean you have to register with a valid email address (or Google account) before you can post. A very dedicated troll could create a new throwaway email address every time he gets banned, but casual ones won't. Even the dedicated ones would be more careful if being identified as a troll meant more than having to think up a new nickname.

Anyway, I'd be fine with registration of any sort if Vox and the moderators think it would help. The "echo chamber" accusations are just shaming attempts, of course. The reason the conversation here is so high-level is that most of the commenters are on the same page about many things, so we can go deeper.

You wouldn't want a forum on advanced algebra constantly interrupted by people asking how to add fractions. Or for instance, if you want to talk about usury, there's nothing wrong with saying, "We're not going to talk about whether Hitler was right or whether this conversation is anti-semitic. Not the topic." That's not cowardly; that's focused.

Anonymous Eduardo May 03, 2017 10:44 AM  

You never drove a car really fast Timmy XD, thats how all of us racing fans end up as fans, we like speed, and we like insane people competing like horses on a derby at those insane speeds. NASCAR fans just wanna see some cages being rattled bud, it is a fun men's sports where you put rednecks and engines together!

We are just a bit ... Crazy let's say.

You just have to seat your ass in the chair, shut down your brain, and drink your Junior related beverage and after one hour you get why we watch doing the left turn friend...

Anonymous Thales May 03, 2017 10:45 AM  

"There's no such thing as 'Diversity' in auto-racing, Marigold."

Blogger Parrothead Al May 03, 2017 10:45 AM  

Ricky Bobby would not be welcome in NASCAR today, that is why they are toast.

Anonymous Shelly May 03, 2017 10:46 AM  

I only comment occasionally, using a variety of names. VD's enemies read the comments too, and some of them are taking notes. Requiring registration would simplify their data collation.

Blogger Parrothead Al May 03, 2017 10:47 AM  

Have they had a gay Frenchman as a driver yet, I do not follow NASCAR so I would not have noticed.

Anonymous Looking Glass May 03, 2017 10:47 AM  

@94 Shadiley

Bill Simmons is completely convinced that Gary Bettman was sent by the NBA's David Stern to kill the NHL. I honestly don't think he's wrong. While a Sports Commissioner is supposed to take the heat over the owners (e.g. Goodell, Roger), you would think competence would be at least expected at that.

Anonymous Clueless Cuckservative May 03, 2017 10:47 AM  

But...but...but...muh Danica! Muh duhversity!

Blogger BassmanCO May 03, 2017 10:53 AM  

@2, Agree completely. Yesterday was FUBAR. Maybe entertaining on an occasional basis, but if that was what the blog moved to consistently, I would limit my reading, probably staying away from the comments entirely.

Blogger M. Bibliophile May 03, 2017 10:56 AM  

@veryfunnyminion

I was really just trying to flesh out my own thoughts on Vox's law of Social Justice Convergence. Every organisation goes through it, but it really becomes fatal when the org finds something else it wants to devote its resources to (to include audience reach) other than its core fundamentals. Social Justice, by its nature, is a highjacking principle that necessarily derails any organization it gloms onto, so any converged org necessarily loses the ability to perform its stated function the more converged it becomes.

That the Republican party is now following this blueprint to a T is just one more sign that the rise of the AltRight is inevitable.

Anonymous Just another commenter May 03, 2017 11:00 AM  

@102 - 'scuse me? Can you link to documentation of any of said four Japanese surrender offers? Maybe my search-fu is failing, but I'm not seeing them, and I've never heard of them.

Blogger Lazarus May 03, 2017 11:02 AM  

One of the difficulties I see is that different types of posts elicit different styles of comment responses.

An NFL thread can handle vulgarity and personal attacks but not anti-football comments that are a waste of space. It is not a political thread.
Political threads are a different animal. Vulgarity and personal attacks are counterproductive. Paid trolls are a reality and should be eliminated. Predictions of doom and gloom for the sake of demoralization are also suspect. Substantive criticism based on fact (not rumor) are productive.
Instructive posts (like economics or history) don't elicit the same responses as political ones but people interjecting with unrelated theories are time and space wasters.

I thought the moderation was becoming increasingly efficient.

After the Echo Chamber Jail Break, I was reading comments in an ensuing thread and some vulgarity was used. My visceral response was that it was completely out of place.

People should be able to distinguish which kind of Post/Thread environment they are in. (except drunken autistics, of course)

Blogger bosscauser May 03, 2017 11:08 AM  

Once the good old boys hit the mud bog NASCAR done!
Clothing optional. Beer swilling n tobacco chewing...
And Country music....
Shazaam!

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger Lazarus May 03, 2017 11:09 AM  

and spammers. ban spammers.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2017 11:10 AM  

Beau, I miss that too, but the problem is that the dojo was self-contained. As it gained in wider appeal because society caught up to the madness, it also picked up more noise.

In 2005 or whenever Me-So said sayonara to history, you could go 4 or 5 comments before a spacewaster. The anklebiters were named and tamed. Today, unchecked, that number would be inverted, at best. Not because the Ilk don't Ilk, but because noobs and Soros noob and Soros.

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2017 11:11 AM  

> I haven't been an Episcopalian since then, and I've mostly gone church-less because I'm leery of the liberal, corrupting influence that we now label SJW convergence.

This page may be of interest then: http://www.episcopalnet.org/DBS/ByState.html

The listing is five years old, so its accuracy is not guaranteed. But any church that uses the 1928 Prayer Book is going to be relatively resistant to convergence.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction May 03, 2017 11:11 AM  

I'd say keep running it how you have been running it. There is a reason for the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Anonymous Red Cabbage May 03, 2017 11:11 AM  

As a new reader my experience with the comments has been very positive.
--When I had a sincere question, people answered it well.
--The level of discourse was high enough to discourage me from random stupidity.
--If it was an echo chamber, that didn't bother me. It's not like I expected "The Supreme Dark Lord" to act like Mr. Rogers or something.
--I like the ability to be an anonymous coward, since I am still one of the fencesitters and have no wish to be outed yet.

Anonymous A Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 03, 2017 11:16 AM  

J.J.

Pray for me. As an elder of a small (but strong core) church, I sometimes feel like I am the only one standing against the temptations of "church growth models" (aka "seeker sensitive movement", "felt needs ministry", etc.). Of course the church is supposed to grow, but by the God's methods, not man's.

"Church growth" is a bad thing right on the face of it, because it makes an idol of attendance numbers. Jesus preached to thousands in one place, and preached to just one person other places. The hospital for sinners is not the place for MBA's focused on numbers. "Church growth" is a good way to become SJW infested.

"Seeker sensitivity" is bait and switch. Pretend to be one thing to get people in the door then start teaching them inside. It's fake. Taken too far it becomes false witness.

Both are temptations that need to be stoutly resisted. I'll pray for you and your brothers; for clarity of thought, for humility in service, for the Word written on your heart.

Blogger Servant May 03, 2017 11:17 AM  

Not knowing what WND was I read some of your older posts about the "intellectual freedom" of WND and how it sometimes led to some pratfalls but spawned many popular writers and had a high readership. You also highlight the left's mocking of WND.

If the left mocks it, it is because they fear it. Maybe there is something to be said for less editorial control?

Blogger MC227 May 03, 2017 11:19 AM  

Every professional sport has been ruined by SJW nonsense. Look at the NFL how the rules have been changed for "safety" because some players mostly black can't spell their name after a few years in the NFL as if they could before, pink shoes and towels in October, women reporting on the side lines, no kickoff returns anymore, the QB should be wearing a sundress. MLB no taking out the 2nd baseman to break up a DP, no running over the catcher, the increase in offense to please women that have an attention span of a drunk monkey, the women in the broadcast booth on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball- she played softball, ESPN spewing leftist nonsense 24 hours a day, NBA enough said. Sports was a men's thing 30 years ago that has been taken over by SJW leftist creeps. The games are bad enough now on TV but then the commercials that appeal to women and adolescent girls. When NASCAR gets taken over which is happening the destruction is complete. Unwatchable now.

Anonymous Stickwick May 03, 2017 11:23 AM  

There's no going back to the old days in the comments. I started reading and commenting in 2009, and back then the focus was more on philosophy, economics, and trashing feminists and atheists. Vox also participated a lot more in the comments. That was a lot of fun. It was like getting an education back in those days.

The focus at VP has changed to quicker commentary on current events. And, understandably, Vox has a lot less time to engage commenters. Nothing wrong with that. VP is still highly readable and my first stop of the day. But the change in focus is necessarily going to lead to a different sort of comments section than before.

That said, VP still has a better comments section than most current event sites. I sometimes glance at the comments at Breitbart and other places, and it's the metaphorical equivalent of a food fight at a special needs school.

Blogger Rabbi B May 03, 2017 11:24 AM  

@123 BassmanCO

"Yesterday was FUBAR. Maybe entertaining on an occasional basis, but if that was what the blog moved to consistently, I would limit my reading, probably staying away from the comments entirely."

Hardly. Yesterday was awesome. The post was dominated by the Ilk and Ilk made the comments great again, if only for one thread. Precisely the point.

I mean, "Hugh Bris" for my wrestling moniker? C'mon, it just doesn't get any better than that.

Anonymous Edjamacator May 03, 2017 11:25 AM  

As someone who has been here reading, at the least, since the WND days, I have to say that yesterday can't continue. How VD has been running it recently has worked. I usually read at lunch at work, and the idea of trying to go through 1100 comments to see good ones would be a joke.

Basically every dinkwad site has registered commenters. I don't see why it would be such a bad thing here. Get a new gmail account and register. Whatever. All I know is that while yesterday's trash thread had a few humorous bits in it, it would be a tedious slog for any serious topic.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2017 11:25 AM  

Boxing is fine. Too decentralized now to converge it. Joshua-Klitschko was the greatest heavyweight fight since the 70s and the only one I can think of where both fighters got off the canvas to rally.

Blogger szopen May 03, 2017 11:25 AM  

Hmmm so if concern trolls are temporarily allowed, I would want to think aloud about one theory. You see, before 2016 there was grwoing trend of rightwinger buying more guns, trusting politicians less and so on, with some people being affraid that this eventually may lead to widespread political violence. Now, what follows is not really serious, not even half-serious, just an idea fleeting around fringes of my mind: imagine there actually IS a single elite controlling state. You are part of the elite and you definetely do not want destabilizing the system, as - if you are part of the elite - aby destabilisation brings the risk that you will be ousted. So you would want to appease the right wingers. What would be the best way to do it? Create a candidate, who on face value would be opposed by the elite and who would look like fighting the elite, and let him win. Then he will change nothing, while constantly bragging about some meaningless wins and fighting against the elite.

I guess in four years we will know.

Blogger Douglas Hiltz May 03, 2017 11:30 AM  

Another factor in the revenue decline could be weakness in the economy. Less disposable income.

Blogger Rabbi B May 03, 2017 11:32 AM  

As someone who has been here reading, at the least, since the WND days, I have to say that yesterday can't continue.

Then you misunderstand what yesterday was all about.

Blogger Student in Blue May 03, 2017 11:35 AM  

Yesterday's thread was great, partially because it was a one-off. If you disagree with my opinion, you're objectively wrong.

@131. Theproductofafineeduction
I'd say keep running it how you have been running it. There is a reason for the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

On the other hand, is it genuinely fine? Just because there's not an immediate bad result doesn't mean that a choice was correct. See: Hart-Cellar.

FWIW, the way I understand it Vox is doing his best to keep appealing to his core audience, instead of chasing after growth, as per the topic and the other groups who didn't. I'm not sure if Vox's correct in identifying his core audience as strictly the Dread Ilk, though.

Generally a core audience is a type of person, rather than someone with history. There's often a lot of overlap, to be certain, but people also change over years. People come and go, and that's because people change.

If only Dread Ilk commented were permitted to comment, even though the average comment quality would skyrocket, I believe eventually the comments would die out as there's no way of inflow, only outflow.

Anonymous Laz May 03, 2017 11:44 AM  

@VFM #6306: Wrong. Nirvana sold 78M albums vs Backstreet Boys at 40M

Blogger Quilp May 03, 2017 11:48 AM  

Put up with the nonsense form newbies like myself (although I am sorry i missed whatever occurred yesterday, I always miss the good stuff). Put up with it because right now Cuckservative and SJW's always lie are still just coming to the attention of a lot of people. With what is happening with Congress right now, people are just exasperated, looking for someone, somewhere who knows their frustrations and can help them understand why we are where we are. No one says that is your responsibility, but step up anyway, its what men like you do.

OpenID originalh May 03, 2017 11:52 AM  

I've read every column and blog post since the first WND column in August 2001. I only comment sporadically.

While I used to enjoy the comments in the early days (and I read every comment back then), I think the crowd has grown too large for the free-for-all to be workable. Like Orville said, we don't want the comments here to turn into Zero Hedge... I pretty much stopped reading the comments because of the noise level the past couple of years until the recent step-up in moderation.

Lately, the comment section has been worth reading again.

If the recent level of moderation has been workable from a moderator perspective, I'd say keep it as is. If the moderation workload is getting too high, requiring registration would be ok.

Anonymous Isidore the Farmer May 03, 2017 11:53 AM  

I read every post but rarely comment (5 or so total comments I would guess). However, I do quickly scroll through a number of threads to read the comments of a few people. Under the free-for-all model, I would likely stop scrolling/reading comments. I might register in order to see comments under the restricted model. Not sure about that one...

Anyway, just one opinion from a non-Ilk regular reader.

Blogger dienw May 03, 2017 11:55 AM  

You are part of the elite and you definitely do not want destabilizing the system, as - if you are part of the elite - aby destabilization brings the risk that you will be ousted. So you would want to appease the right wingers. What would be the best way to do it? Create a candidate, who on face value would be opposed by the elite and who would look like fighting the elite, and let him win. Then he will change nothing, while constantly bragging about some meaningless wins and fighting against the elite.


Such a candidate would vent the steam of the right, exactly as Limbaugh, Hannity, National Review, et al function(ed) - without providing actual changes in policies or actions. This would also destabilize/split the right into groups who wholeheartedly continue to back the successful candidate, those who to their disgust to smell a rat, and those who now believe they can voice their most "extreme"/extreme views.

Anonymous Toby Temple May 03, 2017 11:58 AM  

I miss the old topics. I miss the debates. I miss this place.

Blogger Lazarus May 03, 2017 12:03 PM  

Is it better to restrict the comments and only permit the old school Dread Ilk to participate? ... Or is it better to go to the other extreme and permit the sort of free-for-all we witnessed yesterday?

Wait a minute. I've seen this before. Vox asks for opinions and then ignores them because he usually has a better idea.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, I might as well be George W. Bush.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 03, 2017 12:05 PM  

Aside from shooting the defeatists, I like the current comment policy. Though as others have said, I don't know what pain the mods go through.

NASCAR has another problem besides chasing marginal audiences - America's love affair with the car is kinda on the rocks, for a few reasons. One, cars got boring and ugly. Stupid CAFE standards and accountants running the car companies turned everything into a lozenge-shaped blob. Two, cars are harder to work on yourself today. I could sit inside the engine bay of my old Chevelle and work on it. Most cars today, there's hardly room for screwdriver under the hood.

But the worst thing, what's really killing the love affair, is the crappy traffic people have to deal with. Cars used to be a tool of freedom, you could drive wherever you wanted, not just where the bus or the train ran. Today they're a tool of being stuck in traffic trying to get to work.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 03, 2017 12:06 PM  

Laz are you on crack? Backstreet boys sold 130M.

Blogger Dave May 03, 2017 12:11 PM  

Infogalactic News Headline:

Japanese Destroyer Escorts US Ships
Despite first offensive Japanese naval mission since 1945, no fears for West Coast


Ok, if this was up yesterday how was it not mentioned in the free-for-all? I wasn't around for the Japanese invasion debate but I can still appreciate the reference. Some of the old school Dread Ilk think they can recreate the environment that spawned those epic moments but I tend to agree with SiB; people change, people come and go. I doubt that I would've heard of Castalia House or Infogalactic without this blog. Restricting who can comment here (except for obvious trolls/spammers) would have to be counterproductive to the growth of CH and IG. Do we want to risk that?

Anonymous One Deplorable DT May 03, 2017 12:15 PM  

Yesterday was fun as a one time event for ****posting. But it would be awful over the long run.

Vox, if you happen to read my post, know this: your blog is the one blog where I read not just your posts but the comments as well, day after day. I almost never spend time reading the comments at other blogs. You and the moderators must be doing something right for the general quality level to be so high.

I don't think I would change anything except that as a reader I have no idea what kind of work load the current system presents to you and the people who help you.

Anonymous civilServant May 03, 2017 12:23 PM  

"Is it better to restrict the comments and only permit the old school Dread Ilk to participate? ... Or is it better to go to the other extreme and permit the sort of free-for-all we witnessed yesterday?"

To accomplish a goal requires focus. What is the purpose of the blog?

Blogger Deplorable May 03, 2017 12:25 PM  

Re: Comments

Given an either/or, I greatly prefer restricting comments instead of a free-for-all. I add essentially nothing to the discussion, and spend more time skimming the comments for certain long-term names worth reading. Narrowing the pool of commenters should concentrate the quality.

The only caveat is that a question/answer exchange occasionally helps us newcomers, both with information and by seeing responses to trolls.

Blogger Beau May 03, 2017 12:25 PM  

I sometimes feel like I am the only one standing against the temptations of "church growth models" (aka "seeker sensitive movement", "felt needs ministry", etc.).

The speaker at the spiritual awakening conference last night told us he started a seeker sensitive church following the Willow Creek paradigm, after 10 years he was broken, burned out and spiritually destitute. After a seven week sabbatical he returned, repented, and told his church they would seek the presence of Jesus in prayer, faith, the written word of God and obedience to the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Pursuing Jesus he and the congregation found the richness of God.

Anonymous Scott May 03, 2017 12:30 PM  

It all depends on how much effort it requires, but I think Vox has done it the right way.

He bans stupid because stupid will never add to the discussion.

The funniest thing about the comment section yesterday were all the previously banned people suddenly posting. Were they just waiting around in hopes that Vox would open up the blog for a day?

Blogger Rabbi B May 03, 2017 12:33 PM  

He bans stupid because stupid will never add to the discussion.

Is the ban back in effect? Hadn't noticed.

Blogger JACIII May 03, 2017 12:38 PM  

We used to see comment threads break 1000. The good old days......

Blogger Lazarus May 03, 2017 12:42 PM  

Dave wrote:Infogalactic News Headline:

Japanese Destroyer Escorts US Ships

Despite first offensive Japanese naval mission since 1945, no fears for West Coast


I think that is the 4th time someone has mentioned that. Its like beating a dead horse with the jawbone of a deader horse.

Anonymous Cantostop May 03, 2017 12:43 PM  

Well I had been lurking for a decade until I started commenting, and still don't have an account, so I hope I make the cut. In other words...what about me?

Just kidding.

Actually I've been lazy about registering.. for a few reasons I think requiring registration would be a happy medium.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT May 03, 2017 12:46 PM  

@158 - The funniest thing about the comment section yesterday were all the previously banned people suddenly posting. Were they just waiting around in hopes that Vox would open up the blog for a day?

A banned poster is like a woman insisting that she really does hate that big, mean jock and would NEVER date him. I mean, OMG, he's such a jerk! And a sexist to!

Of course she's protesting while sitting front row at every one of his games.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 03, 2017 12:48 PM  

42. JP May 03, 2017 9:15 AM
y'all go ahead and burn all that leaded gasoline



many racing fuels are now unleaded. NASCAR, of course, is using the gayest fuel, with green food coloring and ethanol added while removing the lead.

http://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/green-e15


56. fop May 03, 2017 9:26 AM
Nascar died with Dale.



considering that Senior committed suicide attempting to block cars that were no threat to pass Junior and the stupidest Waltrip ... you COULD say that Brain France is just following Senior's example.


35. TontoBubbaGoldstein May 03, 2017 9:09 AM
The Chase format is stupid.


the Chase is one of the few things that Brain has done that have worked out. you don't have championship runaways where the leader just coasts around to a ~15th place finish for the last three races of the season any more.


winners don't kiss ( much less touch ) the trophy girls any more. but that's not Brain's fault. that's been going on so long i don't even remember when it started. did Winston start that?


66. Nate May 03, 2017 9:32 AM
NASCAR exploded in the 60s and 70s because you just never knew what the crazy rednecks were going to do out there. There would be fights on pit road almost every week. Feuds settled by giant wrecks on the track... it was awesome.

In the name of growth... they got rid of all of that.


Nate pretty much nails it.

crazy rednecks gonna crazy redneck ... which other crazy rednecks love to watch.

one other thing:
there's a certain amount of personal risk involved in every form of crazy red necking ( hold my beer and watch THIS! ). women and children *might* choose to participate in crazy redneck, but nobody's going to be surprised if they get injured or killed.

what's going to be the response if Danica manages the ( almost ) impossible and dies on track?



70. Nate May 03, 2017 9:35 AM
the CoT is a disaster and was never anything but a disaster from the very start.



the original CoT was a disaster, the current car isn't awful.

they'd still be better served to get the nose up in the air and force the teams to use a SBBS suspension though.



111. Timmy3 May 03, 2017 10:36 AM
What's the point of watching cars racing endlessly around a track?



spectating a race is about the PASS, not 'going around a track'. even the checker is almost incidental.

unfortunately, the idiot producers in the broadcast booth have no conception of this and much prefer 'action' shots like the gopher cam, bumper cam and end-of-the-straightaway shot ... in which you can't see a damn thing about the line being run or the pass being made.


118. Parrothead Al May 03, 2017 10:45 AM
Ricky Bobby would not be welcome in NASCAR today



Ricky Bobby tongue kissed Sascha Cohen. he'd have got his ass beat by the 1970s drivers.

Talladega Nights *was* an SJW convergence op ( extolling the values of being Progressive ) and was well designed to humiliate red necks.

which made NASCAR's embrace of it that much more aggravating. seriously, NASCAR pushed the hell out of that movie.







Blogger Dave May 03, 2017 12:53 PM  

I think that is the 4th time someone has mentioned that.

Not in the free-for-all thread. And beating dead horses can be a pastime on this blog.

Anonymous Cantostop May 03, 2017 12:54 PM  

Also, a way to follow or block certain commenters as well could be good as well, kind of like what I think Cuckbart (not registered there either, I feel myself getting dumber any time I scroll the comments).

OTOH the comment quality here is excellent and I can't see blocking anyone who wouldn't eventually be banned.

Of course this would only work with requiring registration. Just another idea.

Blogger szopen May 03, 2017 12:55 PM  

So, if some people enjoyed the thread, but couldn't bear it if it would become permenent... SOme blogs have this Open Thread thing, where rules of the blog are lifted, people are allowed to discuss everything and so on. VD could try such thing here - biweekly, once a week, maybe once a month an entry with free entrance for everyone.

Blogger lowercaseb May 03, 2017 12:56 PM  

Mr Traumaboyy wrote:I hunt gators every year with a former Daytona 500 winner. He told me the push was to weed out the older guys and replace them with 18 year old heart throbs to sell the sport to Women. The pressure was being applied through the Sponsors who are all Nascar partners. I look at my autographed #3 on the mantle with disgust!!

You nailed it...the rise of the Superteams made it so there were a handful of people that would always win and a bunch of alsorans. The importance of Sponsorship and Commercial friendly drivers resulted in a big batch of vanilla personalities as drivers.

Anonymous Cantostop May 03, 2017 1:03 PM  

(Follow/block suggestion being aimed at helping us save time, as scrolling through comments of marginal or zero value to someone, even if not from actual trolls, is a huge waste of time that could otherwise be spent smashing antifag skulls)

Anonymous Eduardo May 03, 2017 1:08 PM  

@164

But... but... I always thought it was about waiting to see Jimmy Johnson crashing or something so he wouldn't het number 7. Now that he does have number 7, we wait and see him wreck so he won't get number 8!!!

u_U aaaanyways, there is no passing in Indianapolis where Tony loved, so racing is obviously about being ridiculously fast, passing is just a cherry on top. Or Dale dumping you in the wall to get the checkers.

(Checkers or Wreckers...)

Anonymous Brick Hardslab May 03, 2017 1:14 PM  

I would love to see a registration system. Fewer trolls and only serious commenters would remain.

Blogger Koanic May 03, 2017 1:18 PM  

It depends on whether the goal is to allow regular readers to comment and feel invested, or to make the comments worth reading.

At scale, those goals diverge.

Lots of people get on Gab and discover no one wants to hear what they have to say. I've muted 220 of them.

Anonymous patrick kelly May 03, 2017 1:21 PM  

"Feel free to express your opinion."

A free for all once a month purge might blow off enough steam to remind folks why moderation is a good thing.

This blog has kinda' organically grown into a very special, unique place. It would take a lot of crap over a long period of time to stop the momentum.

If Vox just posted his articles and let the comments go to shit I'd still show up to mine what gold and diamonds I might find here.

Blogger kh123 May 03, 2017 1:32 PM  

As said above, chasing the margins for the greater glory of Soviet Union.

The mods seem to be doing fine. Blogger's probably not capable of it, but a captcha a'la the Q&A from Voxiversity. Want to comment?, then answer randomly generated questions (1). through (10). or look it up.

Blogger kh123 May 03, 2017 1:34 PM  

"Only a few musical groups produce what I'd call "good" music in a live format. Most of them today sound amazingly better in recordings of studio productions."

I think this has always been the case. Overdubbing makes for better sounding songs; makes for disappointing shows.

Blogger James Jones May 03, 2017 1:35 PM  

I've been reading this blog since 2005 on a daily basis. I've read virtually every post in that time, except American Football ones, because I have zero interest in it. But I rarely comment and I'm not a VFM. I hope I don't get frozen out in any way.

Anonymous Iacobus May 03, 2017 1:37 PM  

It was the beginning of the end when NASCAR wanted to get rid of the Confederate flag at their races. (Note this was *way* before the whole Dylann Roof incident and before Nikki Haley was clutching her pearls over the Confederate flag.) Wouldn't want to offend anyone, right?

Serves them right that things ended up the way they did.

Blogger James Dixon May 03, 2017 1:37 PM  

> Ok, if this was up yesterday how was it not mentioned in the free-for-all?

It had already been up for two days when the free-for-all started.

Blogger Esmar Tuek May 03, 2017 1:59 PM  

I think the mods need to be tighter, my posts make it though. I don't care to be a member of any club that'd have me...

This blog has the best comment section I've come across. Stupid is slapped down post-haste. It's not an echo chamber.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 03, 2017 2:00 PM  

170. Eduardo May 03, 2017 1:08 PM
But... but... I always thought it was about waiting to see Jimmy Johnson crashing



there isn't anything wrong with watching to see Johnson crash. that's part of what makes circle track racing "red neck".

but the chance to see LOTS of passing is what makes circle track *more* advanced than Fag1 racing. you don't watch the race to see the driver compete against the track ( that's qualifying or, in the most extreme, World Rally ) which is why F1 tracks with a single passing zone are stupid. most are only tertially concerned with the car manufacturer or team.

the competition people WANT to see is between the drivers. that's who they cheer for. and the pass is where the driver demonstrates his superiority. i don't care for Jo-Jo "the dog faced boy" Logano, but you've got to respect starting at the back of the field and winning the race.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 03, 2017 2:01 PM  

179. Esmar Tuek May 03, 2017 1:59 PM
Stupid is slapped down post-haste. It's not an echo chamber.



call it an "Echo Chamber of Smart".

Anonymous WaterBoy May 03, 2017 2:06 PM  

szopen @167: "So, if some people enjoyed the thread, but couldn't bear it if it would become permenent... SOme blogs have this Open Thread thing, where rules of the blog are lifted, people are allowed to discuss everything and so on. VD could try such thing here - biweekly, once a week, maybe once a month an entry with free entrance for everyone."

There once was such a thing, a post (most) every Sunday night for readers to discuss what they thought the next day's WND post would be about.

Of course, it disappeared when the WND column did. Something like that being a regular, largely unmoderated feature might satisfy those with the bloodlust, while retaining the "kinder, gentler" nature of the current moderation for the topically-focused posts.

Blogger Wally Bangs May 03, 2017 2:12 PM  

I once subscribed to the Winston Cup Scene Newspaper. I attended some races. Watched them all. My father in-law videotaped them all until he passed away in 2012. I grew up idolizing Cale and Dale. I met Dale and I met Junior. The sport was already going sideways with the rise of the Bruton Smith cookie cutter tracks when Dale Sr crashed and died in 2001. I kept following it until about 6 or 7 years ago I gave up. Social convergence was in. Spirited good ole boy drivers were out. Every, and I mean every, damn telecast treated the viewer like he'd never seen a NASCAR race before. It was mind numbing. I saw the idiots banned the rebel flag too. It's massively and completely corporatized. I decided, on a whim, to tune into the Daytona 500 for the first time in years and quickly turned it off after hearing the new ludicrous rules meant to replicate local track heats I suppose. I used to even buy the toy cars. They all were sold in a yard sale a couple of years ago. There is no heart and soul in the sport anymore.

Blogger lowercaseb May 03, 2017 2:27 PM  

Timmy3 wrote:NASCAR is simply boring. What's the point of watching cars racing endlessly around a track?

Not that I expect to change opinions, but I was just answering this exact question yesterday to co-workers. Nascar has a learning curve to really appreciate it. I watched it as a child with my Dad who explained a lot of the nuances. I see it as the 3-4 hour chess match that is one step in the season long tournament.

Most people know ball games because they played them in school. Even if you didn't like it or we're any good, you at least we're exposed to the strategy and effort it takes. People think driving Nascar is like driving to the store. The overwhelming majority of people have never driven a car to the edge of control and have no idea how thin it is.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper May 03, 2017 2:32 PM  

If you decide to require registration to comment if only to unclutter your life than this is about the only blog I'd bother registering for. Make of that what you will.

Now as to NASCAR, its also partially a victim of Single Mommy nation and of video games.

Sports, the viewing of much less participation in are typically a father/son thing, with 40% of White kids in single parent homes now , that's a lot of people not part of the culture of sports. This also doesn't include divorce, father who are cultured into sports either.

Young people today typically have a low interest in cars but for those that do they can just play racing games like Forza or Need for Speed or whatever online with friends or at home. No need for NASCAR.

Throw in convergence and you have the recipe for a decline.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 03, 2017 2:37 PM  


There once was such a thing, a post (most) every Sunday night for readers to discuss what they thought the next day's WND post would be about.


Those were the best and drunkest threads

Anonymous TorBooksEnthusiast May 03, 2017 2:37 PM  

It is a clever trick to call free speech a "free for all".

Trump's latest budget has lots of funding for refugee resettlement, no funding for a wall.

No wonder VD stands for Venereal Disease.

Blogger daddynichol May 03, 2017 2:42 PM  

Since the demographic of the blog from 12-15 years ago has changed, it's not a good idea to go to an open comment section. The first few years of VP were populated by people who really put some thought into their positions and comments, thus it was a wonderful educational tool for me. The occasional trolls were mere cat toys for entertainment.

Yesterday's posting free-for-all should be treated as an annual event, not a daily practice. A daily diet would soon wear thin. I admit, I shoveled my fair share of comments yesterday, but I wouldn't do so daily, but other trolls would have no problem taking over and wrecking the place.

The current neighborhood is OK but don't let it become a posting ghetto!

Blogger Troy Lee Messer May 03, 2017 2:45 PM  

It would be little loss if i were unable to comment. I have fait vox will balance creativity vs access. If u dont like the rules here. Start ur own blog.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein May 03, 2017 2:45 PM  

@164
...the Chase is one of the few things that Brain has done that have worked out. you don't have championship runaways where the leader just coasts around to a ~15th place finish for the last three races of the season any more.

It did what it was intended to do...make certain that there is *drama* in the last race. I just didn't see the need for it. Sure, under the old system you had some blowouts where the championship was decided with one or two races left. You also had races like Atlanta 1992 (One of the coolest races I've ever attended, in more ways than one...) with Kulwicki, Elliot, and Allison all in a tight points battle. Also, the King's last race and Jeff Gordon's first.

I think the increased reliability of the cars has taken a lot away from NASCAR's entertainment value. Back in the day you'd see Ken Schrader, Buddy Baker etc driving the Hell out of their cars...but there was always a good chance they'd blow 'em up before the checkers. More tire failure, also. you just never knew until the checkers dropped. Not always the case now, but if a driver has a decent lead with 20 to go and fuel is not a factor, unless there is a caution...he's going to win the race almost every time.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein May 03, 2017 2:48 PM  

@188
Yesterday's posting free-for-all should be treated as an annual event...

Monthly.
First Friday Free-For-All?

Blogger Junior May 03, 2017 2:52 PM  

I've been somewhat amused by the SJW attempt to infiltrate NASCAR, it's always been an awkward fit, I don't think it's been all that successful and I definitely don't think it's what's causing NASCAR to lose fans.

What's caused me to lose interest is the whole "Chase" format, which was dreamed up to prevent any one driver from taking over and running away with the season, therefore, in theory, more people will tune in to watch the later races, and the audience will grow. NASCAR has a history of changing rules to make the races allegedly "more competitive."

But many fans like it when one champion dominates fora season, or even many seasons. I started watching when Richard Petty first started racing in the 1960s, he eventually won 202 races through a three-decade long career, almost all of them in the first half of his career, because NASCAR changed the rules because The King was winning too much. No more hemis!

I still watch a race here and then, I saw Kyle Busch recently start a fist fight at the end of a race and walked away with a big welt on his head. So the personalities are still in the sport, it's just recently, the dull guys have been winning. The Chase format favors the dull guys, but every once in a while, drivers like Kyle persevere, as he did in 2015.

If I could be granted one wish from NASCAR, it would be please stop Daryl Waltrip from saying, "Boogity, boogity, boogity, let's go racing boys!" at the start of races.

Blogger Rabbi B May 03, 2017 2:55 PM  

" ....but other trolls would have no problem taking over and wrecking the place."

The funny thing is that no real trolls showed their virtual faces .. it was all Ilk ...

Blogger RobertT May 03, 2017 2:57 PM  

The few membership sites I've toyed around with have all been suffocatingly boring. Perhaps that's the eventual result of membership organizations. Better to beat a few down every now and then than to go willingly into irrelevance.

Blogger Lovekraft May 03, 2017 3:03 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger tublecane May 03, 2017 3:04 PM  

"Feel free to express your opinion."

Definitely not in favor of a free-for-all. This is one of two blog comment sections I visit daily, the other being iSteve, and both are well-regulated. I wouldn't say VP is am echo chamber, though there's a little too much uniformity of thought for my taste. There's also a bit of paranoia. I've never been so often accused of being a troll. (Or a solipsistic, autistic SJW.)

The peer pressure on this site is high for my taste. Then again, the iSteve comment section, which has a greater range of opinion, is also more full junk exchanges. Greater uniformity here leads to deeper conversations, I think.

Long opinion short, VP is good as it is.

Blogger tublecane May 03, 2017 3:10 PM  

"Every sport is trying to unlock the new consumption levels"

Who talks like that? First thing we do, let's kill all the technocrats.

Anonymous BBGKB May 03, 2017 3:11 PM  

I think the NFL added all the "you can't touch the kicker" rules in anticipation of find some girl kickers

Have you heard of Mike Sam?

many racing fuels are now unleaded. NASCAR, of course, is using the gayest fuel

Obviously you are not familiar with a Sun Oven. It's covered in the book "BGS's BBQ sauces for faggots that can't cook"

But the worst thing, what's really killing the love affair, is the crappy traffic people have to deal with

DieVerse City Driving

Yesterday's posting free-for-all should be treated as an annual event...Monthly. First Friday Free-For-All?

Time to invest in replacement O keyboard buttons.

Anonymous Edjamacator May 03, 2017 3:15 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:Then you misunderstand what yesterday was all about.

I'm strictly speaking about the opening to anyone, including trolls. When the discussion is limited and the wastes are blocked, the comments add to the post. Otherwise, there's simply too much nonsense to dig through to get to anything worth reading. I know Vox was making a point and all that, and I know some enjoyed it, but I'd have to stop bothering with comments on my limited time if it was wide open.

Anonymous Causal Lurker May 03, 2017 3:17 PM  

Recess is over. That was a good change of pace, and mostly in good fun. The only thing missing was the a capella version of "Umlaut, Umlaut uber alles" - THANKS, Markku! My wife wondered what made me laugh so much, but I couldn't explain and keep a straight face.

I came late to the game, having seen a blog post for SJWAL on another site not to be named. The WND cite clicked back in place. I had several serious illnesses and some deaths in the family to handle, so my blogging was very light for years. I've lurked for a couple years, to learn, read, and enjoy, and only recently began to comment. I stayed for the high quality comments and emphasis on rational thought, and (more than) occasional silliness.

Keep the moderation in its current state. You may want a list for reserve or backup moderators, because the lash can get tiresome after a while. This should bring in a set of potential new Ilk. The need is to recruit like-minded people, not try to meet sales quota or market statistics.

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