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Saturday, May 27, 2017

Darkstream: Christianity, Paganism, and the Alt-Right

I don't often direct your attention to the Darkstreams - I usually neglect to post them here at all - but I think this particular Darkstream is a particularly important one for anyone hoping to understand the relationship between Christianity and the Alt-Right, and why the eucivilizational atheists, agnostics, and pagans who support Western Civilization are ultimately going to need to embrace both cultural Christianity as well as support genuine Christian revival.

And let me say that I don't blame any atheist, agnostic, or pagan who harbors deep contempt for the so-called modern Church. As I said, when I look at the churchian cucks who worship at the altar of Judeo-Christ the Good Samaritan when they aren't busy welcoming refugees for pay, the first thing that springs to my mind is Jesus clearing the moneylenders out of the Temple.

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184 Comments:

Blogger Sam Spade May 27, 2017 6:15 AM  

I think this was one of your better darkstreams.

Even from red pilled people, we tend to see events and trends from a materialistic perspective. I think more and more that the causes and solutions have a spiritual component.

It was very opportune because coincidentally I was reading these days your book "On the existence of gods".

I hope you make more analysis from this perspective in the future. It's quite illuminating.

Anonymous karsten May 27, 2017 6:40 AM  

I will listen to it presently, but as for this . . .

"why the eucivilizational atheists, agnostics, and pagans who support Western Civilization are ultimately going to need to embrace both cultural Christianity as well as support genuine Christian revival."

. . . given that there exists no variant of the Christian Church that actually does preach expelling non-white invaders from the European homelands, along with other Alt-Right policies, I simply don't think it's possible.

If there were a Christian Church preaching Alt-Right policies, I'd join it and support it for practical/political reasons, much as I don't actually believe in anything immaterial. (But then again, I'd join a pagan Church preaching Alt-Right policies for the same reason, again with the stipulation about putting up with a theology in which I don't believe.)

But no such Alt-Right-aligned Church exists. (Not even SSPX.)

The Judeo-cucked Church is the only game in town, albeit in various degrees of pozzing, and that's pretty much how it's been since the Third Reich was prevented in its laudable and necessary efforts to de-Judify Christianity.

For much of the Alt-White/Alt-Reich to sign up, a new, non-converged Church would need to be crafted practically from scratch, rather like Gab or Infogalactic or Castalia. And that may be a step too far.

Cultural Christianity, though? I'm already there -- but for the same reasons that I am a cultural pagan: aesthetics, i.e., a love of, and loyalty to, the artistic heritage of the West.

Anonymous VFM 4388 May 27, 2017 6:41 AM  

2 Peter 2.

Blogger Unknown May 27, 2017 6:51 AM  

Hi VD great stream. I'm half way as you say, as I've seen Evil. To me it's the apathy to current events, to the deeds of others.

Which version of the Bible do you recommend?

Blogger Duke Norfolk May 27, 2017 6:54 AM  

If you haven't listened to Stefan Molyneux's discussion with Tom Woods, do so. Good discussion there on this topic. And reference to Tom's book, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, that I've put on my reading list. (And I've said it before, Tom Woods is secretly alt-right, and will eventually be explicitly so.

Blogger Happy LP9 May 27, 2017 7:06 AM  

Great clarity, audio is perfectly fine also youtube aired the video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4YS0ftScMg

It cannot be a sin to stand up for ourselves, sin isn't even the issue (?), if one lays down, they are defeated and placed into despair (overtaken by multiculti/islam), no more time for that.

I prefer; IG News | IG Tech firstly then check zerohedge.

Blogger Happy LP9 May 27, 2017 7:07 AM  

OT: awesome; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REhUUEAT7oQ

Blogger Lovekraft May 27, 2017 7:13 AM  

Wondering if anyone followed Dr. Charles Stanley of the Baptist Church. At first, to the meek western ears, he seemed harsh and blunt, but in comparison to the soft feminized churchianity kumbaya-fest, he's a breath of fresh air.

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 7:18 AM  

Which version of the Bible do you recommend?

In English, I tend to prefer the NIV. In Italian, il testo ufficiale CEI. I'm not a translation purist. For certain quotations, I like the drama of the King James.

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 7:20 AM  

supporting Breivik's murder of young people

Correction: war is not murder.

David slew "ten thousands" by his own hand and was the beloved of the Lord. Later, he was punished for a single murder he did not personally commit, and at which he was not present.

Anonymous swede May 27, 2017 7:23 AM  

Do you have any suggestions for finding faith? I see the necessity of religion, and Christianity in particular, but aside from history and cultural affinity I don't have actual belief. Which seems to be a common position especially among the European far right, leading to essential weakness.

Blogger Phillip George May 27, 2017 7:46 AM  

swede,
maybe just maybe start with hard core empirical science and philosophy.
A famous quote from Sir Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes is "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

It seems glib, trite, simple, but God is not only a logical conclusion He is the only one. God may seem improbable today. Every alternative once adequately examined is impossible. A poster here reported Wiki have excised all references to H2O as a green house gas. They don't like the implications. It's that simple. A simile is no-one talks about abiogenesis because every discussion precluding God is fantastic in the extreme. The bible claims men are without excuse. I humbly suggest it says so because it is empirical truth.

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 7:50 AM  

Do you have any suggestions for finding faith?

Start with the problem of evil. If you believe in evil, then look at the various explanations for it.

Blogger Ron May 27, 2017 8:11 AM  

I've searched for a spiritual home for sometime without success. I could never get comfortable with any Protestant church because of, as I now realize, their churchian nature. The pagans were worse; far leftist ideology, 300 pound female centric, rabid anti-Christian, etc. To be fair, I didn't have much exposure to the heathens. My experience was mostly with the wiccans. I most definitely support Western Civilization and see the importance of Christianity for it's continued existence. I've found a political home with the Alt-Right, maybe I'll find a spiritual home with Alt-Christianity.

Blogger OGRE May 27, 2017 8:17 AM  

When people ask me about "finding faith" I usually point to the existence of morality as a starting point. CS Lewis probably sums it up best in his Mere Christianity, which is an excellent starting point for anyone wishing to learn about Christianity or find faith in Christ.

But the argument I usually give is that because I absolutely believe that there exists an objective morality, the only rational basis for such a morality is a transcendent Lawgiver. Virtually every moment I've ever experienced suggests to me the existence of morality; any claims to the contrary, claims that morality is just an illusion or a by product of evolutionary impulses, are extremely counter-intuitive. It would take an *ahem* extraordinary proof to convince me otherwise.

And once I accept that there there is a concrete morality to which all moral agents are subjected, the inescapable conclusion is that it must be transcendent. Any attempt to reduce the world to mere physical matter and energy (materialism) fails to account for this morality. Any morality that is not transcendent of the physical world becomes no morality at all, has no force beyond personal preference. I've yet to meet an atheist in 25 years of discussing this who has ever offered even a semi-coherent claim for the existence of an objective morality that is consistent with a materialistic world-view; every attempt at doing so quickly falls into absurdity or nihilism.

So I have the premises that 1) objective morality exists (my experiences make no coherent sense otherwise, and I can find no rational reason to deny this) and 2) objective morality must be transcendent of the physical world (otherwise it is no morality at all). From these premises I can gather that there must exist things that are transcendent of the physical world (strict materialism is false). And from there I conclude that objective, transcendent morality requires a transcendent Lawgiver.

Now going from that to Christ and the Biblical God takes a few more steps. But its usually that first step away from believing that there is nothing more than the physical world that is the hardest for most.

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 8:24 AM  

You're banned for lying, "Steel T Post". Both your theology and your history are inept, and your idea that Nietzsche had Christianity correctly pegged is observably stupid.

Don't try to comment here again. You're not tall enough for the ride.

Blogger Lovekraft May 27, 2017 8:28 AM  

@19 Steel T Post:

You may have been drinking deep from the world's lies so let me just say this.

Jesus Christ warned us numerous times that the Enemy will try to define Him, to slander Him, to misrepresent Him. We see it played out daily.

Look at Jesus this way when he said: Before Abraham was, I am. Something one versed in metaphysical concepts can grasp easily.

Jesus is beyond man's definition but also an obtainable standard for the common man, IMO. I wouldn't discard His example just because vermin have used His message for their own gain. It just gives me assurance that Jesus is the example to follow because of the hatred and envy he invokes in people.

And there's the whole humility aspect that is central. Christians are very, very patient because they know that acting harshly and without justification is not something that gets us in His good graces. Don't mistake that for cowardice. The abortion-addicted atheists and inbred mohammedans have the selfish, impulsive racket cornered.

Blogger StatesRights May 27, 2017 8:39 AM  

I see it very simply. We all get be headed together, or our children will surely be be headed separately.

Anonymous Sam the Man May 27, 2017 8:46 AM  

#14

As an interested chap who has polled a lot of atheists who returned to faith of some kind, in the vast majority of cases it starts with a real heartfelt request of G-D in heaven to show them something such as:

Is there anything left of a loved relative that died?
Is G-D there?
Is there a purpose to one's life beyond (fill in the blank)?

The common thing that joins all these descriptions of folks turning their faces to G-D is a sincere genuine request, in a humble manner. See what happens, but you have to wait, an answer can take some time, but when answered you will have to go through mental gyrations to deny it.

The other manner I have seen in three cases is to die and then come back, though medical intervention. A Sikh, Rabbi and person who grew up without any official faith but cultural Christian all came back as Christians.

#19

If you are mad at the current apostate churches, well that does not deny the validity of a 2000 year history or the fact that the western Christians, before going bad, seem to have created the best civilization yet. Nietzsche is certainly entertaining when one is 16 and even through early adulthood seems to have a lot to say regarding the west's decline, but then he did die insane and well, as one grows up one sees his philosophy does not address a lot of aspects of life and how people actually think. There are things of honor besides ruthlessness.

Said another way celebrating strength over all is fine for a young healthy man, it is not nearly as comforting or complete when one is 60 and dying of pancreatic cancer. The same is true of Libertarian ideas, they do not encompass the totality of life or provide answers to the big questions everyone will have to face.

Also Jews are not quite the clever rulers you think they are, many are deceived and on a self-destructive path as well. Yes some arrogant ones think they are meant to rule, but they are actually doing the work of the prince of this world, to their own detriment. A large number of Jews are simply seeking G-D, in a manner they learned as kids, within a culture that does not really allow for introspection beyond certain set limits. They do not see some of the contradictions of modern Judaism, they do not realize the Torah prophets disagree with the Talmud. They are humble decent folks seeking G-D and contrary to the constant drum role of how rotten they are, can be quite kind generous and loving people. I have seen it first hand.

Anonymous Jeff May 27, 2017 8:50 AM  

This is what atheist Stefan Molyneux said about Christianity the other day. Methinks he's about to convert:

"Philosophically I’m an atheist but over the last couple of years I’ve had, I daresay, an evolution towards a massive and deep appreciation for not just my Christian heritage but the West’s Christian heritage. I’ve actually found that I like Christians a lot more than atheists who tend to be kind of high strung, aggressive, often underemployed and gravitate enormously towards the left (statistically this is true). What I love about Christianity is the focus on individual conscience. You can’t point guns at people and make them good. The moment you introduce force into the Christian theology, into somebody’s moral behaviour, boom, out goes the morality. It’s like introducing force into dating. Suddenly you’re just a creep in a windowless van.

The fact that Christianity stands for a smaller state which allows people to pursue moral choices means that I’m far more aligned with Christian ideals and Christian philosophy than I am with atheists who seem to want to get rid of God so that they can blow the state up to biblical proportions.

Blogger James May 27, 2017 9:04 AM  

karsten wrote:
. . . given that there exists no variant of the Christian Church that actually does preach expelling non-white invaders from the European homelands, along with other Alt-Right policies, I simply don't think it's possible.


Except Christian Identity.

Blogger TheNextCrusade May 27, 2017 9:13 AM  

I met a man who had embraced evil to an absolute degree. It's starkly different to anything else you will see in a human being. It made an otherwise small and insignificant man powerful enough to deceive and harm many people. That's the most surprising thing about it - the power gained from it. Of course it comes at the cost of suffering so intense that the only consolation is to use the power. People don't truly understand evil until they encounter it.

Evil is real, it is powerful and it's on the march like we haven't seen in a long time.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 27, 2017 9:15 AM  

Swede: Problem of evil, yes, and the encouragement that extremely tiny amounts of faith are sufficient for Christianity (even a year of doubt punctuated by a single minute of, "Hey, wait a minute..." followed by more doubt) because Christ is the author of the Christian's faith, not the Christian himself. Finally know that the one who starts faith in you is a big-time job-finisher, and he will be faithful to complete the job of faith-building in you.

So, start small, and let that fitful, infrequent faith grow. Note that you already show evidence of faith by recognizing your need for it and asking how to have it.

You have my fervent prayers, actual ones, not the fake Churchian kind.

Blogger Sam May 27, 2017 9:16 AM  

@18
"Virtually every moment I've ever experienced suggests to me the existence of morality; any claims to the contrary, claims that morality is just an illusion or a by product of evolutionary impulses, are extremely counter-intuitive. It would take an *ahem* extraordinary proof to convince me otherwise. "

If you think morality is objective in the same manner physical laws of the universe are objective, then ones ability to comprehend morality is just as much a product of evolution as ones ability to understand physics.

If you are asking why the universe has universal laws of morality, we still don't know why the universe has universal physical laws or why there seem to be violations of those laws (5 billion years ago the rate of the universe expansion accelerated. We have no idea what could possibly have caused that).

Blogger Old Ez May 27, 2017 9:21 AM  

I would argue that the Christian Identity movement is not fundamentally Christian at all. It is Judaism (racial self worship) for gentiles. Israel/"chosenness" does not have the same meaning for Christians post-Calvary as it did for Jews pre-Calvary. We are not "Jews" (Chosen) of the flesh like CI thinks, We are "Jews" of the spirit.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 27, 2017 9:28 AM  

Atheism is simply a joke as virtually all Isms are jokes

Anonymous rotekz May 27, 2017 9:29 AM  

Would this not be a good subject and basis for a guide book?

Blogger Cail Corishev May 27, 2017 9:33 AM  

Do you have any suggestions for finding faith?

One suggestion is the example of the man in Mark 9:24, who said to Jesus, "Lord, I do believe; help my unbelief." In other words, pray and ask God to give you faith. It might feel silly at first, but that's where many of us started. You can reason out the existence of a Creator (at least in Catholic theology), but faith is different -- faith is a gift that we can't earn or discover by reason, we can only accept it.

Know that even devout Christians struggle with unbelief at times -- if not in God's existence, then in other aspects of faith. It's an ongoing process of accepting that gift. I have a little book here called "Prayers for Catholic Men," and one of the prayers in it is that simple line from Mark 9:24.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer May 27, 2017 9:34 AM  

I am atheist who would proudly bear the Cross in a crusade. If there is god, only Christ leads the way.

Anonymous crushlimbraw May 27, 2017 9:35 AM  

My latest definition for God has been simplified.
GOD = Reality!
No, not your or my perceived reality, but the REAL Reality of what actually IS! Requires constant willingness to be challenged in our beliefs.
The Bible helps us in a variety of ways - but my main guideline is 'Prove all things and hold on to that which is good' - find that in your own Bible. Most folks read it for 'spiritual' reasons - to me, it has become a research tool.
Anyone seriously interested can find my website and the linked archive by googling my name - we need mentors - the harvest is ripe but the workers are few. The CAP Lessons - based on a book by Gary North are work in progress, but useful in your quest for insight and understanding.

Anonymous swede May 27, 2017 9:39 AM  

Thanks for the responses. Please note that I'm not trying to convince anyone or start a debate in my responses, just succinctly state my position on that issue. Which for fairly obvious reasons for a non-believer tend to be not so harmonious with those of Christians.


@15 "maybe just maybe start with hard core empirical science and philosophy."

That's sort of my starting point and that's only led me to a mechanistic world view. For instance, I agree the start of life is tricky but I don't see any particular reason to decisively say that it was done by some intelligence mapping closely to the concept of God rather than something completely unknown or unlikely happening. But sure, further thinking might lead to something else.



@16 "Start with the problem of evil. If you believe in evil, then look at the various explanations for it."

I've not experienced anything that leads me to think evil exists in any way beyond the natural. Certainly reading about someone like Albert Fish gives very unnatural vibes, but not enough so I can conclude it's definitely not merely faulty neural wiring.

Interestingly enough I just listened to an interview with Swedish nationalist Jonas De Geer talking about his conversion to Catholicism. He was very clear that he believed in the supernatural and had experienced real, physical evil. As an aside IIRC you linked to a debate with him and Greg Johnson on Christianity a few years ago.

Anonymous swede May 27, 2017 9:41 AM  

@18 "When people ask me about "finding faith" I usually point to the existence of morality as a starting point."

I don't disagree that positing morality likely leads to the conclusion of a creator of morality. But intellectually I can't justify anything but nihilism. I explain moral behavior not by ideas, but because those are evolutionary useful patterns much like hunger or sex drive is. That is, our sense of morality is subject to biological whims (somewhat borne out by different races having at least a little varying morality). I do realize that altruistic behaviors is an ongoing problem in evolutionary science that hasn't been adequately explained, but it looks approximately right to me.

The reason I reject nihilism isn't because I have an intellectual counter to it, but because it *feels* wrong and the degeneracy and apathy it brings feels wrong too. A deep visceral feeling of wrongness. Sort of like behaviors that you'd consider moral feels right but in the opposite direction. Currently those sort of feelings is what I'm operating on morally speaking and I've consciously discarded moral systems like libertarianism or utilitarianism since they so often lead to repugnant results.



@22 "As an interested chap who has polled a lot of atheists who returned to faith of some kind"

I suspect "return" is a keyword here. That is, that people who grew up even with some vague cultural religion at least has the proper cognitive infrastructure formed to accept faith in adulthood even if they don't do so immediately. I'm third generation non-believer and grew up in one of the most secular societies on earth. On top of that I score pretty highly on the autistic spectrum, which as Vox as noted, seem to predispose towards non-belief.

Anyway, I have tried prayer and will try again.

Blogger Sam May 27, 2017 9:41 AM  

@29
"Au contraire, he often consorted with outsiders such as Samaritans who were hated by the pure Jews."

Samaritans are Jews. If you do DNA tests on modern Samaritans they are more closely related to modern Jews then they are to modern Palestinians.

Jesus being nice to Samaritans doesn't show he doesn't respect nationality or race; it shows he doesn't respect STATUS or CLASS.

"And if we are talking about defending borders and getting rid of traitors, where does that put you?"

It is very gamma to attack the person instead of the argument; to only think of personal benefit and not the benefit to the commonwealth, to insist that altruism doesn't exist and that people who disagree with them are only motivated by hatred.

Anonymous Stickwick May 27, 2017 9:42 AM  

swede: Do you have any suggestions for finding faith?

In addition to the advice already given, I urge you to read books by J. Warner Wallace. If you are like most Nordics, you are predisposed to find rationalist objections to God and Christianity. Wallace's books address those objections. Check out: Cold Case Christianity and God's Crime Scene.

Anonymous Based Zion May 27, 2017 9:46 AM  

The problem with "alt-Christianity" is that it is inherently anti-Semitic and ignores the historical reality that Jesus was a Jew.

Why go out of your way to alienate alt-Right pro-Trump Jews (like me) to revive fake news swastika-panty nonsense?

Anonymous Rfvujm May 27, 2017 9:47 AM  

Perhaps Stefan could start the alt right church that karsten described above in the comments.

Anonymous Desert Rat May 27, 2017 9:48 AM  

Vox, thank you for your clear statement of truth in this darkstream.
This is a vitally important message and you deliver it about as clearly as anyone I have read or heard.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch May 27, 2017 9:48 AM  

Dang, Vox. This was a good Darkstream. Much better than the one I got to jump in on earlier this week.

I missed my chance for some sort of a NACALT comment.

Your statement about the Orthodox is insightful and spot on. In the next few days, I will discuss it with the Traditional Catholics in my circles, and try to direct them to your Darkstream. The more people we mobilize in this war, the better.

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 9:50 AM  

The problem with "alt-Christianity" is that it is inherently anti-Semitic and ignores the historical reality that Jesus was a Jew.

Because it is not anti-semitic, nor is the fact that Jesus was a Jew relevant in any way to the discussion. You are not telling the truth.

Why go out of your way to alienate alt-Right pro-Trump Jews (like me) to revive fake news swastika-panty nonsense?

We're not going out of our way to do anything. You are alienated from us because you are opposed to the truth and are attempting to coopt. Your word salad doesn't even make sense.

Anonymous Mike Rock May 27, 2017 9:50 AM  

Has anyone else here had a 'near death experience', in which you are told by a loving voice, 'It's not your time. Go back and teach.'?? It was all white and the most pure experience of peace and love I have ever had. HE was speaking and it made an impression I cannot explain. HE IS. That was July 20, 1990. I was 'dead' for seven minutes. My chest hurt from where they had hit me with the defib. Sore for days!
That experience changed me...... much for the better.

God bless.

Mike

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 9:52 AM  

. . . given that there exists no variant of the Christian Church that actually does preach expelling non-white invaders from the European homelands, along with other Alt-Right policies, I simply don't think it's possible.

Give it time. Where there is truth, the true Church must eventually follow.

Blogger OGRE May 27, 2017 9:53 AM  

@27 "If you think morality is objective in the same manner physical laws of the universe are objective, then ones ability to comprehend morality is just as much a product of evolution as ones ability to understand physics. "

That is conflating two things that are quite different. Physics is descriptive, Morality is normative. When I discus the law of universal gravitation I am not saying that particles must exert force upon each other, I am not saying that it is a good thing or a bad thing that they exert force upon each other, I am simply describing how particles react to one another. There are no judgments, no claims that one thing should act a certain way because it is good or bad. Physical laws simply describe what we infer through observation; they are descriptive and are a result of inductive reasoning through observation.

Morality on the other hand is entirely about making value judgments. Murder is bad, kindness is good. Such is not descriptive...it is prescriptive. We also only ascribe moral judgment to those things capable of making moral judgments; we do not conclude a lion is morally evil because it ate a rival lion's cubs, because we do not believe lions are moral agents capable of making moral judgments. In fact, the only thing we've ever observed in the physical universe that we ascribe moral agency to is humans.

If you wish to claim that our ability to make normative judgments is a product of evolution I'd suggest presenting an argument for the claim that shows such a connection rather than simply making a pronouncement. Usually the only arguments I've ever seen along these lines take the form of "We developed Morality to help us survive as a species." Although I've never seen an actual argument for this, its always thrown out as an explanation consistent with evolution. But nobody ever bothers to show HOW our inclinations towards morality helps us thrive as a species (hint, it doesn't). And more importantly, it utterly fails to establish any actual morality with any substance or force.

You can be consistent and claim that this evolutionary morality is simply illusion and not anything of any real meaning, or you can attempt to argue that there is such a thing as Morality by which we can make meaningful value judgments. But attempting the latter within the confines of evolutionary development becomes futile. I'd love to see you try though. You can start by explaining why it is a good thing that any living thing exists in the first place.

Anonymous Stickwick May 27, 2017 10:03 AM  

swede, I didn't see your follow up comments before I posted mine. It is as I suspected.

I can relate to everything you're saying. I was a second-generation atheist who grew up in a highly secularized society (Canada), and I also score highly on Asperger's tests. After nearly 30 years of atheism, I came to belief through my scientific work and rational explanations. You will likely find those same explanations compelling if you are already seeking. That's why I strongly urge you to read Wallace's books.

Wallace is a retired LAPD cold case homicide detective and former atheist who uses precise, rational investigative principles to examine the claims for God and Christianity. I helped edit two of the chapters in God's Crime Scene and endorsed the book. It's brilliant.

I would be happy to make Wallace's books my gift to you. Email me here with where you'd like them sent, either email for ebooks or physical address for hardcopies, and I'll get them to you.

Blogger BunE22 May 27, 2017 10:10 AM  

Jesus was an Alt-Jew. If He was just a Jew why would His tribe want Him killed?

Anonymous Red sky in morning May 27, 2017 10:15 AM  

Vox: Have you (or anyone here) read Dr Michael Heiser? Unseen Realm? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Anonymous Crusader May 27, 2017 10:17 AM  

"Jesus was a Jew" the Christ-Killer lies...

1. First off, it is very close to blasphemy to speculate on the genetics of Christ in light of the miracle of the Incarnation. That said, it is obvious Christ was NOT a mongrel mix of Italian-Khazar-Turk-Edomite-Canaanite. In fact, Christ ethnically identified as a Galilean...

2. To claim Christ followed the religion of Judaism (the Talmud) is straight-up blasphemy. Indeed, the Talmudic Pharisees were Christ's mortal enemies here on Earth, as He told us: "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies..."

Blogger OGRE May 27, 2017 10:22 AM  

@32 swede

I certainly understand your dilemma. And I applaud your consistency in reasoning...strict materialism leads to nihilism. There is no escaping that. If nothing exists but matter and energy, then there is no meaning, no purpose, no value in anything. Everything is simply a discussion about how matter and energy are organized, and we have no basis for saying that it is better to be organized in one way (a living human) as opposed to any other (a pile of dirt). Even Molyneaux's Sartrean existentialism can't escape the black hole of nihilism, as much as he might flail about attempting to crawl out of that pit.

Let me suggest that you might look into how we develop our belief structures; how we base one belief upon another. For instance, how would we justify to ourselves a belief in gravity? First we must believe in our own existence, then in the existence of our senses, then that we can reasonably trust our sensory inputs to be accurate, then that other physical objects exist, then that these objects react to each other the same way every time. Further, in order to extrapolate from our sensory inputs we must believe in reason and logic, and then mathematics, and then the validity of the scientific method. Then by coupling all these deductive and inductive reasonings together we can come to the conclusion that physical particles exert force upon one another.

But all those beliefs rest upon others. Our belief in mathematics is derived form our belief in logic. Our belief in physical existence requires believing our sensory inputs. Eventually we get to certain beliefs that cannot be justified outside of themselves...foundational beliefs. Things like the law of non-contradiction, personal existence, the existence of truth. Things that in order to prove we would have to assume as true in the first place. Things that we can't deny, because denial would be so counter-intuitive that our entire understanding of things would crash and burn. Morality falls very close to this category (I won't place it on the same foundational level as say Truth or Existence, but its on the next level up.)

So in your case you have some premises which I'll spell out in admittedly very simplistic form. 1) If Materialism is true, then Nihilism is true. 2) If Nihilism is true, then Morality is false. Now given these two premises as true, I can infer that the truth of Materialism implies that Morality is false, and I can also infer that the truth of Morality implies that Materialism is false. Now without presenting any further arguments for Morality or Materialism, I can ask...which is more fundamental in your actual belief system? Can you honestly say to yourself that you would exclude the existence of anything non-physical if that means you must deny the validity of any moral judgment whatsoever? That having children be tortured and murdered is not morally repugnant, or that there must exist some things that transcend the material world? That you don't constantly make moral judgments about yourself and others around you and believe those to have some actual weight? Which really makes more sense?

Anonymous Looking Glass May 27, 2017 10:25 AM  

The Great Schism was in the 1050s. The Reformation in the 1510s. We're due, soon, for a fairly massive shake up in the Christian world. The dead vines will be cast into the fire.

It's going to be messy. Having to toss a couple of hundred years of "Christianity" isn't going to be pretty.

Anonymous crushlimbraw May 27, 2017 10:26 AM  

@30 amended - My latest definition for God has been simplified.
GOD = Reality = Truth
The rest as earlier stated applies.

Anonymous RevDanTheMan May 27, 2017 10:36 AM  

For anyone having a challenge resolving "science" with Christianity, consider investigating the astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross (reasons.org). He is a voluminous writer and debater on the subject (he only debates Phd's).

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 27, 2017 10:37 AM  

No honest historian can avoid becoming Alt-Right.

Blogger Damian Michael May 27, 2017 10:45 AM  

Since a number of people have mentioned Alt-Christianity, then you may be interested in an article that I published a few days ago on Return of Kings called 'The 21 Tenets of Alt-Christianity'.

Here it is: http://www.returnofkings.com/122301/the-21-theses-of-alt-christianity

And I have been thinking about this idea of 'Alt-Christianity' since the early summer of 2016 (even before Vox released his 16 Points, I believe), and so you can find more here (look at the bottom essay for the old version of my understanding of 'Alt-Christianity'): https://damianmichael.com/alt-christianity/

Damian Michael

Blogger Rick May 27, 2017 10:47 AM  

I would suggest not taking Jesus' "sword" comment too literally. He brings it, which is a defenders posture (until it is used). And I think he means also, but more so, that he has come to divide some important things from others, such as the Truth mixed with false and so on. Money changers from the temple. Good from evil. Overcome darkness with light. Hillary from the Presidency.
As a wise man once told me, to take the Bible only literally is to miss practically the whole Bible.
That's not to say he didn't also mean sword in the literal sense.

Blogger James May 27, 2017 10:48 AM  

Old Ez wrote:I would argue that the Christian Identity movement is not fundamentally Christian at all. It is Judaism (racial self worship) for gentiles. Israel/"chosenness" does not have the same meaning for Christians post-Calvary as it did for Jews pre-Calvary. We are not "Jews" (Chosen) of the flesh like CI thinks, We are "Jews" of the spirit.

WE are not jews at all. To imply that Christian Identity is not Christianity is to ignore what they themselves say. I do not believe in CI totally but they are certainly more interesting than most forms of dogmatic judeo-Christianity. Like the Hebrew meaning of the word Adam. Like pointing out the the Messiah was not a jew. Like pointing out that the word "jew" did not even exist during Christ's time on this planet. The term used was Pharisee. Not jew, which could mean either someone living in Judea or someone from the tribe of Judah. You should educate yourself further.

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 10:53 AM  

Here it is: http://www.returnofkings.com/122301/the-21-theses-of-alt-christianity

That's quite good, actually. Well done.

Anonymous Clay The Swamp Spartan May 27, 2017 10:53 AM  

Excuse me...BUT...no comments on that Everblack College stuff going on?

Or, mayhaps, I just missed it.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 27, 2017 10:56 AM  

@46. OGRE, for its part, the most damning condemnation of materialism is that it rests solidly on the assumption that we know everything about reality and that what we define as the purely material is all there is to it.

In reality, we don't know jack. There's faith and there's belief, and the word "know" is a lie-that-is-a-word when applied to our physical bodies and physical minds. The Socratic "For my part, as I went away, I reasoned with regard to myself: “I am wiser than this human being. For probably neither of us knows anything noble and good, but he supposes he knows something when he does not know, while I, just as I do not know, do not even suppose that I do. I am likely to be a little bit wiser than he in this very thing: that whatever I do not know, I do not even suppose I know.”

Commonly distilled as "I know one thing, that I know nothing." Is extremely applicable to materialism.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 27, 2017 11:04 AM  

Really, it's applicable to science-as-the-only-truth claims in general. Science is designed as a system intended to produce a constantly better understanding of how things work, in order to use nature to our advantage. It does not and cannot ever produce truth or concrete "knowledge" as the word is commonly understood. It can only ever produce approximations and guesses, and to try to use it to dictate absolute truth is borderline bats*** insane.

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 11:05 AM  

57. Benjamin Kraft May 27, 2017 10:56 AM
@46. OGRE, for its part, the most damning condemnation of materialism is that it rests solidly on the assumption that we know everything about reality and that what we define as the purely material is all there is to it.

In reality, we don't know jack. There's faith and there's belief, and the word "know" is a lie-that-is-a-word when applied to our physical bodies and physical minds. The Socratic "For my part, as I went away, I reasoned with regard to myself: “I am wiser than this human being. For probably neither of us knows anything noble and good, but he supposes he knows something when he does not know, while I, just as I do not know, do not even suppose that I do. I am likely to be a little bit wiser than he in this very thing: that whatever I do not know, I do not even suppose I know.”

Commonly distilled as "I know one thing, that I know nothing." Is extremely applicable to materialism."

Though, I respect whatever the hell you tried to say, using words from another, it's garbage.

Blogger Orville May 27, 2017 11:05 AM  

@20 quoting Stefan The moment you introduce force into the Christian theology, into somebody’s moral behaviour, boom, out goes the morality. It’s like introducing force into dating. Suddenly you’re just a creep in a windowless van.

This is precisely what is wrong with fundamentalists. They come so close to the truth, but then use the force of legalism to ensure compliance.

Blogger Damian Michael May 27, 2017 11:11 AM  

VD,

Although, as mentioned, I was thinking about the idea of Alt-Christianity since early summer 2016, which I believe was slightly before you released the 16 Points, the '21 Tenets of Alt-Christianity' were definitely inspired by your 16 Points, as I mentioned in the article itself.

Hopefully this idea of Alt-Christianity will interest people who have otherwise dismissed Christianity as cucked, as well as being a template for Christians moving forward as they face the coming challenges that will soon become undeniable in the West.

Damian Michael

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 11:15 AM  

I'm sorry, I just came off the lake from fishing for crappie.

Tell me Orville....what is the opposite of a "fundamentalist"?

I really don't know......

Blogger M. Bibliophile May 27, 2017 11:16 AM  

Excellent Darkstream. Revival is coming here, but you are VERY correct about how the purifying fire has already passed over Eastern Europe while ours has yet to fully come. Things will get worse before they get better, but there are some green shoots even now.

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 11:18 AM  

Tho I've been fishing, I think some squirrels are in the attic.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 27, 2017 11:22 AM  

When asked why people chose to deny God and trust in science (evolution), Sir Julian Huxley said:

"I suppose the reason we leapt at The Origin of the Species was because the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores."

And yet, today even the above-average Christian has no idea what the Bible says (and does not say) about sexual morality, why the current doctrines of virtually all Christian churches concerning sexual morality are not in agreement with the Bible, or where those doctrines came from.

Theology For Men Of The West

Don't agree? Take the Churchian Challenge.

Want a roadmap? It's linked at the bottom of this page. It's still a work in progress, but it's a good point to start with if one is serious about learning what the Bible actually says about sexual morality.

Anonymous Crew May 27, 2017 11:28 AM  

Will this be the first of many more cucks to be attacked for supporting Muslims in our country?

https://www.rt.com/usa/389935-two-killed-islamophobic-attack-portland/

Blogger Orville May 27, 2017 11:29 AM  

@62 Tell me Orville....what is the opposite of a "fundamentalist"?

Well Clay, I meant it specifically as a reference to independent (non-denominational) baptists who take a fierce stand for the fundamental (core) precepts of biblically based Christianity. My decades of experience with them, is that many (not all) of them resort to the force of legalism to force change on the congregant, rather than letting the Spirit of God and His word work His change in that congregant over time. The upshot of legalism is that it produces more of what it tried to suppress.

Blogger Orville May 27, 2017 11:32 AM  

So the opposite would be your typical liberal churchian where legalism is not an issue because they accept all deviancy with open arms.

Anonymous Slothman May 27, 2017 11:32 AM  

The choice to reject Christianity (and other faith based explanations as to why the universe works as it does) boils down to many explanations, the most important of which is how silly and disconnected to what we see are the major faiths.

Not knowing the truth of existence isn't and existential problem for average psyches. However, embracing fantasy as a replacement for embracing not knowing is a bit too much for the average mind. And this is as it should be.

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 11:32 AM  

Uh Huh.

SO....just WHO is deciding WHAT exactly THE BIBLE says?


Your stupid ass....TOAD?

Blogger Orville May 27, 2017 11:35 AM  

Plus the other facet of fundamentalism is getting into doctrinal arguments that are akin to arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Things that don't move the ball forward down the field in terms of making better men, families and societies.

Blogger Elder Son May 27, 2017 11:36 AM  

@53 The only Reason why Christ chastised Simon Peter is because: "None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

Understand who the rulers of this age are, and that Christ had to be crucified. Simon Peter wasn't chastised for having a sword, not for the purpose for having a sword. He was chastised for attempting to do the very thing the rulers of this age would have done, if they had known the purpose of Christs crucifixion.

It is the bible, not Nostradamus. There is nothing "mystical" about it.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 27, 2017 11:36 AM  

@59. Clay, I'm not sure what you mean by "garbage". Do you mean you don't understand it?

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 11:39 AM  

Orville, you're not even talking about religion.

I swear, you stink with Sharia.

NAME a religion that sucks up with "all deviancy"

I KNOW where you're trying to go....so do it.

Blogger Orville May 27, 2017 11:41 AM  

I have no idea what you are talking about Clay. Sounds to me like you were out in the sun too long fishing.

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 11:45 AM  

@59. Clay, I'm not sure what you mean by "garbage". Do you mean you don't understand it?

Benjamin....YES.

I understand religion, as I understand it.

Please don't preach yours to me. I promise I won't either.

Anonymous Tinidril May 27, 2017 11:47 AM  

This was a really great Darkstream. Stefan Molyneux interviewed Duke Pesta a while back on this same theme - here's the link for those interested. "The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-eUnj1ATMc

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 11:50 AM  

Orville....it was fishing at nite.

YOU said "So the opposite would be your typical liberal churchian where legalism is not an issue because they accept all deviancy with open arms."

I was asking, I suppose, just WHO are the "deviant religions".?

Blogger Nick S May 27, 2017 11:55 AM  

@45

A 5 part seminar alternative to the book

@11

I prefer the "God did it" argument. Seriously. It's backed up by a ton of science and its refutation requires silly speculation and unreasonable faith in materialism that simply isn't justified by the science.

Another YouTube channel that has a lot of interesting and compelling information can be found at InspiringPlilosophy


BTW, I think Vox is absolutely correct in this. The left will shortly be openly and explicitly declaring war on Christians and Christianity. Militant Atheism is fundamentally essential to the collectivist's Marxist philosophy. Antifa is using fascist tactics to achieve communist goals. Democratic socialism is a stepping stone to the global village (Commune). Liberalism is a dangerous enemy.

Blogger Elder Son May 27, 2017 12:03 PM  

The fact of the matter is, almost everyone here is suckling milk. If you want to get into the meat, then I suggest Dr. Michael Heiser. Google him, and youtube him. At the least, dip your finger into into pool and come to your own conclusion.

Watching you Christians is like watching the Pharisees and Sadducees having a "learned" argument over the resurrection.

The bible is knowable. Just to note, that word "religion" is a two edged sword.

Anonymous Philalethes May 27, 2017 12:03 PM  

#60: The moment you introduce force into the Christian theology, into somebody’s moral behaviour, boom, out goes the morality. It’s like introducing force into dating.

Exactly. As I explain this principle, which applies to all relationships: What is the difference between love and rape? One word: force. (Even a feminist/libprog should be able to understand this; though whether they'll be willing to admit it is another question.) Although I agree that libertarianism as a "political philosophy" is utopian, I find the NAP a good guide in my own life for relationships of all kinds.

#52: Damian Michael: I enjoyed your article on Alt-Christianity – which, as described, I would term simply (real) Christianity – but was not comfortable with your Point #14:

Alt-Christianity is opposed to the separation of church and state in an absolute sense, for Alt-Christianity understands that the absolute separation of church and state always leads to the state, and/or the enemies of the church, using the resources and laws of the state to undermine the church.

Not sure entirely what you intend to say, but I believe you – like most – have missed the point of "separation of church and state". The biggest mistake in the history of the Christian church was the alliance with Constantine. The Christians thought they would benefit from using the monopoly of force possessed by the Roman state to spread their gospel. But in fact it was Constantine – who was never much of a Christian himself, I gather – who used the Christians to secure his hold on power.

And from then on, the relationship between church and state in the Christian world has been a contest between two worldly entities for worldly power (and wealth). Which was not, I believe, what Jesus was about. And in the end, this contest has resulted in not only endless schisms within the church, but also the Protestant Reformation, and the modern widespread disenchantment with Christ's teachings, which people naturally associate with the corruption of the church. Iow, the Christian church sowed the seeds of its own demise.

(That the church made this mistake, I believe, was mostly due to its roots in Judaism, wherein – as in Islam, its natural successor – the idea of "separation of church and state" not only never arose, but is simply anathema.)

"Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." – George Washington

Very few seem to understand that the real reason for keeping the church separate from the state is not to avoid corruption of the state – which is inevitably, eternally corrupt by its very nature – but to avoid corruption of the church. If the Prince of this World is the enemy, why would you make an alliance with him – unless you want what he has to offer? As I recall, Jesus himself famously turned down that offer.

Our problem nowadays is not that church and state are kept separate, for they are not. It is that it is not recognized that Secular Humanism is also a religion – at least in that it attempts to answer the same questions that religions like Christianity answer – and that in fact the present states of the West are closely allied with that religion. Whose adherents have proven no more reluctant than Christians were in previous centuries to use the power of the state to impose their moral values on everybody.

Blogger Jon D. May 27, 2017 12:04 PM  

Best Darkstream yet. Good work Vox. I'm sharing this with everyone.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 27, 2017 12:04 PM  

Vox

I recommend "Law, Sex and Christian Society in Medieval Europe" by James A. Brundage.

http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/L/bo5957131.html

Anonymous badhairday May 27, 2017 12:07 PM  

@15. OGRE

RE: Objective morality

I once watched a documentary about a man with a brain tumour. As the tumour grew, he began to molest his step daughter. One the tumour was surgically removed he stopped.

It would appear that most come with a specialised region of the brain that fills one with disgust when contemplating child molestation. It is supposed that the growing tumour put pressure on this area and inhibited it.

Traits, such as one's tolerance for such things, may to a large part, be genetic. This would certainly explain some of the cultural practices of Afghans and Pakistanis. - and why they seem so surprised when they get arrested in the west.

Alas, there appears to be no objective morality. Some people just have a tendency to do things which the rest of us find disgusting.

This is not a Nihilistic argument, for in excepting that there may be no objective morality, personal morality still remains. (and to some extent is hard wired into your brain)

If there is a transcendent objective morality then you're stuck in a bind. Who can say that my perception of morality is actually moral and the paedophile's is not - other than the transcendent being? and since you've premised your argument on being able to perceive an objective morality then you must consider your self to be god...

All logical arguments that try to justify faith just end up tying themselves in knots. Christians are Christians because they have faith. I don't see that they need any more reason than that.

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 12:12 PM  

Orville wrote:@62 Tell me Orville....what is the opposite of a "fundamentalist"?

Well Clay, I meant it specifically as a reference to independent (non-denominational) baptists who take a fierce stand for the fundamental (core) precepts of biblically based Christianity. My decades of experience with them, is that many (not all) of them resort to the force of legalism to force change on the congregant, rather than letting the Spirit of God and His word work His change in that congregant over time. The upshot of legalism is that it produces more of what it tried to suppress.


Orville, I have re-read this post several times.

I THINK I know what you are saying.

YOU, however, don't know what I'm trying to say.

Quit being so judgmental. God is the Judge. Whatever Religion you adhere too....IT AIN'T PERFECFT.

Blogger Cetera May 27, 2017 12:12 PM  

Swede, I would also recommend "The Science of God" by Gerald Schroeder. It is a very well written examination of what science has to say about assertions made in the Bible, primarily dealing with the creation story in Genesis. He's a physicist by trade, and uses only peer-reviewed and generally skeptical scientific articles and analysis for the science side, and only biblical commentary from before the modern era, and demonstrates that they are mutually supportive if not outright specifically identical.

He covers the Big Bang/creation, biology and evolution, genetics, free will, and more in a way I haven't seen done before. It was instrumental in helping build my faith, as well as understanding the nuts, kooks, and ignorants on both sides of the science vs. Bible debates.

I have not read Wallace's books that Stickwick mentions, but it seems like they may have similar bents. I'll be checking them out too.

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 12:16 PM  

The fact of the matter is, almost everyone here is suckling milk.

Always nice to see the gammas posturing so artistically. I give you 7/10.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 27, 2017 12:23 PM  

This is precisely what is wrong with fundamentalists. They come so close to the truth, but then use the force of legalism to ensure compliance.

Any sect that preaches communal salvation is prone to this. When your sin jeopardizes my salvation, we're gonna need a lot of laws...

Puritans were big into this and our southrons may recognize it in the Yankee culture the Puritans spawned. The most aggressive modern day practitioners are the global warmingmongers in the Cult of Carbon.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 27, 2017 12:40 PM  

Our problem nowadays is not that church and state are kept separate, for they are not. It is that it is not recognized that Secular Humanism is also a religion...

But of course this is exactly the problem and why Damien is correct when he writes "the absolute separation of church and state always leads to the state, and/or the enemies of the church, using the resources and laws of the state to undermine the church."

The religion of secular humanism has been merged with The State for some time and is using the vast resources of The State to undermine the competition.

I don't know what the ultimate answer is, for your points about corruption are correct and simply merging the State with any particular Christian leadership will produce massive problems down the road. In our past, we had a good balance where no particular Christian sect could use the state to persecute another Christian sect, but that's a difficult balance to maintain, and clearly we did not.

Anonymous Stickwick May 27, 2017 12:54 PM  

Cetera: Swede, I would also recommend "The Science of God" by Gerald Schroeder.

Seconded. It's a superb exploration of Genesis (and other parts of the Bible) in terms of modern science.

My sense is that swede should start with Wallace's books, and then follow up with Schroeder's book. Wallace's stuff is more foundational. Schroeder's work is more specific, and is great for dealing with objections to the Bible like the age of the universe and evolution.

Blogger BunE22 May 27, 2017 1:04 PM  

Jesus was an Alt-Jew. If He was just a Jew why would His tribe want Him killed?

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 27, 2017 1:06 PM  

Another New England elite prep school flat rock flipped over.

St. Paul's in Concord, NH has a 40-year history of student molestation of both male and female students.

Kerry went there. Mueller went there. A lot of upper class families sent their young men there. And now those graduates are running agencies, corporations, etc.

Anonymous instasetting May 27, 2017 1:07 PM  

Fundamentalists don't preach communal salvation.

While the legalism point might have value, it seems that Fundamentalism is on the right track generally. Much more so than RCC, or other groups.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 27, 2017 1:13 PM  

@76. Clay, I really wasn't saying anything about religion. I was only going into why materialism is flawed.

Blogger Orville May 27, 2017 1:13 PM  

@85 Clay, I have judged you and found your offering of crappie wanting. Therefore I shall plague your attic with squirrels, and Pepes both great and small shall rise from your ponds and carry away your hunting dogs, and befoul your ATVs. And lo, when you open your gun cabinet all your firearms will be Glocks.

Blogger SirHamster May 27, 2017 1:16 PM  

Jack Amok wrote:This is precisely what is wrong with fundamentalists. They come so close to the truth, but then use the force of legalism to ensure compliance.

Any sect that preaches communal salvation is prone to this. When your sin jeopardizes my salvation, we're gonna need a lot of laws...


When one is talking about Jihadists murdering unbelievers to convert by the sword ... using the word "force" for both that and a legalist church in America is not very honest.

What did they do, kick you in the feelz?

Blogger Orville May 27, 2017 1:25 PM  

I thought we were talking about alt-Christianity not goat raping evil losers.

Anonymous Disciple of Kek May 27, 2017 1:30 PM  

"Agnostic hedonistic philosopher until 26" -- haha, that reminds me of myself. I'm 27, training to be a better, more virtuous, more rational person. I draw heavily from Buddhism, Taoism, and parts of Christianity (mostly philosophers like Aquinas and Origen, also early esoteric/gnostic Christianity). I'd love to hear your take on early Christianity Vox, since reading the Gospel of Thomas and the history really opened my eyes to the intrinsic benefits of Christianity.

I think of the quote from Thomas "if you bring out what is within you, what you bring out will save you; if you do not bring out what is within you, what you do not bring out will destroy you."

Thich Nhat Hanh's book "Living Buddha, Living Christ" is a great one. Although I think he tries to draw parallels a bit too frequently, I like the idea of drawing from multiple spiritualites. THat is different than the Theosophists and SJWs who say shit like "all religion is basically the same" -- it is through discerning differences that enables one to draw different gems from different wisdom traditions.

A few questions:

- Do you think Churchianity is, to a large extent, planned? Or is it an unintended consequence of the toxic modern times?

- Do you think someone who is not Christian, but respects Christianity and even draws some goodness from it, can be of benefit to Omni Nationalism and Alt-Right? I think it is possible to honor my heritage AND draw from Eastern philosophy, Eastern religion, etc., but it seems like some on the Alt-Right would disagree.

- If you could comment or do a blogstream on early Christianity, I'd love to hear it. My favorite darkstreams of yours are on history and tactics - and contrary to what you say sometimes, I think you do an excellent job with video, even if it's not your primary medium.

Blogger Orville May 27, 2017 1:32 PM  

I think that just as Vox has said before that there cannot and should not be a monolithic, organized alt-right, there really cannot be an alt-Christian denomination. It will quickly devolve into pointless theoretical theology. A simple bullet point confession of shared core biblical truth that focuses on Christ, sin, salvation, family and preserving western civilization, and excluding things like eschatology and creationism, leaving that for each local church to determine by searching the scriptures for themselves.

Blogger Elizabeth May 27, 2017 1:48 PM  

@81: Very few seem to understand that the real reason for keeping the church separate from the state is not to avoid corruption of the state – which is inevitably, eternally corrupt by its very nature – but to avoid corruption of the church. If the Prince of this World is the enemy, why would you make an alliance with him – unless you want what he has to offer? As I recall, Jesus himself famously turned down that offer.

Our problem nowadays is not that church and state are kept separate, for they are not. It is that it is not recognized that Secular Humanism is also a religion – at least in that it attempts to answer the same questions that religions like Christianity answer – and that in fact the present states of the West are closely allied with that religion. Whose adherents have proven no more reluctant than Christians were in previous centuries to use the power of the state to impose their moral values on everybody.


That's a problem inherent in theocracies or any society where the clergy wields direct political power: People join the clergy because they are politically ambitious and the religion is inevitably corrupted in order to justify rule by corrupt, self-serving clerics. I'm thinking of medieval Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism.

Also, any society that will kill you because you practice the wrong religion or wrong brand of religion will kill you because you practice the wrong politics. A society can be authoritarian but still permit religious liberty, but there is no political liberty without religious liberty. Do you think that Vox's Protestant Church in Italy would have been open to the public 300 years ago?

This is a reality that Moslem reformers in Moslem lands face. I do make an exception for religions that preach violence or sedition such as Islam. They can be suppressed for practical reasons.

On top of that, if I was a ruler in medieval Europe, I would want clerics loyal to me to serve as my vassals. The Church was the single biggest landholder in Europe. There was an endless pushing and shoving between both Rulers and the Church in medieval Europe and eventually the Rulers triumphed.

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 1:50 PM  

LOL....Orville, and Benjamin, I really wasn't trying to make a fight. I suppose, by your responses, you figgerd that.

Thanks.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 27, 2017 1:55 PM  

The Darkstreams in general are getting better all the time (I see them after the initial broadcast), and this latest one is surely one of the finest of the lot. As for what happens with Christianity in the west, it must survive one way or another: whether the great hollowed-out ediface stuffed with parasites - SJWs, cucks and churchians - which represents the western church is hewn down by Mohammed's blood-stained sword and cast into the fire (bad), turned into such a mockery by the present ruling parasites at the behest of their Satanic masters that it collapses under its own weight (worse), or comes into bloom like the seemingly dead-tree of Gondor (a very interesting allegory on Tolkien's part) we know not.

If hewn down, a shoot will arise from the stump. Same thing for the collapse, though the shoot will perhaps require more time to appear - the dead tree coming to life is revival of course. In any case, VD's point stands (very similar to one made by Belloc or someone of that era). There is no western civilization without Christianity any more than there would be one without its native populace. I expect the smarter agnostics and pagans are beginning to see the truth of this.

Anonymous BBGKB May 27, 2017 2:01 PM  

OT: Crooked Eye Clinton offered up this bit of wisdom to graduating snowflakes

“When people in power invent their own facts and attack those who question them it can mark the beginning of the end of a free society”

http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-wellesley-commencement-speech-trump-2017-5

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky May 27, 2017 2:04 PM  

The historical argument for the existence of God is the strongest one. Forget all the others. The Church saved Western Civilization after the collapse of Rome, then again after the first invasion of Islam. Preserving that inheritance, European civilization was built out upon the foundation of Christianity. Even modern secularism owes everything to Christianity. Modern progressive "victories", all of them, from the abolition of slavery to the universal suffrage, to child labor laws, to the 40-hour work week, to the modern nanny state, all hinged up and were won by moral arguments stemming from Christian ethics. These battles may have begun by wild-eyed Italian anarchists and the like agitating in the streets, but they were won in the pews across the countryside.

And the big problem with modern secularism is that it isn't sufficiently Christian. Belief in such things as open borders, magic borders, and the like hinges upon an incomplete understanding of Christian morality. The basis is the notion that we are all fallen men, yet all special snowflakes, all "God's children", all endowed with unalienable rights by Him equally as strive along our way to make do upon this imperfect Earth. It's a very naively Christian viewpoint these SJWs hold, and entirely Christian even though they don't realize it.

But it's only a fragment of the whole Christian package. Secularism doesn't understand or recognize the theological differences between us and the Muslims. For them all problems are a social calculus that is wrong and must be perfected, so strong is their belief in the fundamental equality and dignity built naturally into every man. They cannot allow or perceive that Islam completely disagrees with the entire premise, and cannot be reconciled to it. In Islam you are Muslim, you were born Muslim, you were not born fallen. And if you're not Muslim today, you're an apostate. An infidel. Lower than a dog. And you need to yield or (better yet) be done away with.

That ninth surah of the Koran in particularly if fundamentally incompatible with the entirety of Western Civilization because it is hotly anti-Christian. It proclaims that all things not Islamic must go.

Blogger Gapeseed May 27, 2017 2:10 PM  

@104 rubberducky - Very well stated.

Anonymous Slothman May 27, 2017 2:15 PM  

The historical argument for the existence of God is the strongest one. Forget all the others. The Church saved Western Civilization after the collapse of Rome, then again after the first invasion of Islam. Preserving that inheritance, European civilization was built out upon the foundation of Christianity."

It can't be overstated how silly this statement is

Anonymous johnc May 27, 2017 2:20 PM  

Very good video and this is something with the alt-right that I've been watching closely. It's going to be fun to see how it unfolds but I have full confidence that the non-believers will come over like a tsunami at the proper time.

For much of the Alt-White/Alt-Reich to sign up, a new, non-converged Church would need to be crafted practically from scratch, rather like Gab or Infogalactic or Castalia. And that may be a step too far.

Oh don't worry, it's coming. Can't you see the signs? All the Christian churches are in free-fall collapse today. Why is God allowing it? Because this is a necessary step before the rebuilding occurs. He needs to raze it down to the foundation before rebuilding, and then we will be one fashy flock under one fashy shepherd again. And then we'll be unstoppable. Muahahaa!

Anonymous JAG May 27, 2017 2:27 PM  

If a reformed Christian Church should arise that is not converged, then I will give it a try. I'm agnostic partly because of my own philosophical examinations, but also for the reason that Vox alludes to. I have no interest in Churchianity or it's Judeo-Christ as it does not square at all with my own readings and understanding of the 4 Gospels.

Also, while I'm not a Gnostic, I am somewhat sympathetic to Marcionite philosophy in that the god of the Jews is not the same as the god of Jesus in my current beliefs.

Anonymous JAG May 27, 2017 2:31 PM  

BBGKB wrote:OT: Crooked Eye Clinton offered up this bit of wisdom to graduating snowflakes

“When people in power invent their own facts and attack those who question them it can mark the beginning of the end of a free society”


Talk about SJW Law #3 in action... And as always, leftists are completely self unaware.

Blogger Duke Norfolk May 27, 2017 2:37 PM  

crushlimbraw wrote:GOD = Reality = Truth

Very interesting. I've had exactly the same revelation recently. And I'm agnostic. Still trying to figure it all out.

Anonymous instasetting May 27, 2017 2:39 PM  

#99 As a YEC, I'm somewhat sympathetic, but then I remember that Evo accepting is compromise, is Churchian, is the thin wedge in the door. Not saying you can't be an ally if you're an evo, but you do have a weak spot in your shieldwall.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 27, 2017 2:41 PM  

I think that just as Vox has said before that there cannot and should not be a monolithic, organized alt-right, there really cannot be an alt-Christian denomination. It will quickly devolve into pointless theoretical theology.

Or at least it's too soon to choose or define one, for that reason. Stop the house from burning down before arguing about remodeling. Right now, orthodox Christians of various stripes have more in common with each other, doctrinally, than any of us have with the Churchians who claim to belong to (and run) the same churches. That figures, since they are all Modernists, and Pope Piux X called Modernism "the synthesis of all heresies." I'll take the devout Christian who rejects a few of my doctrines over the man who rejects the very concept of objective truth because it might offend someone.

I do believe that there is One True Church -- that's explicit in my Creed -- but identifying exactly where its boundaries, members, and leaders are is pretty tricky, especially these days, and frankly, that's not our job. It certainly won't be settled in blog comments. If a Christian revival clarifies that picture again someday, that Church may have a very different appearance than we expect anyway. In the meantime, we keep the faith as best we understand it, and not shoot down opportunities to work with other faithful Christians because we disagree on some details.

That's the opportunity for this idea of Alt-Christianity, as I see it. It's not an attempt to create a new religion or a new church to replace the converged ones, or a denial of our differences. It's just an agreement to disagree on some things, so we can work together on common goals against the real enemies.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 27, 2017 2:45 PM  

"It's just an agreement to disagree on some things, so we can work together on common goals against the real enemies."

... foreign or domestic.

As it were.

Blogger Resident Moron™ May 27, 2017 2:48 PM  

I also belong to a denomination that thinks they're God's favourites.

But that's not why I belong, and I disagree strongly on that point. I believe the body of Christ is made up of those who serve the Head; Christ.

The rest is politics, not theology.

Anonymous User May 27, 2017 2:49 PM  

Here's a tangential question I've been musing on. Was the incarnation of the Logos prerequisite for real science? I tend to believe yes it was, but there's no way to test the counterfactual.

Anonymous EH May 27, 2017 2:51 PM  

Here's a breaking story on SJWs in MUFON driving out one of their state directors for posting hatefacts, with which of course they didn't even bother to argue, and they're especially butthurt that they didn't get an apology. These people believe in alien abductions and channeled nonsense, but saying White men are a target is apparently just too crazy.

Blogger WarKicker May 27, 2017 2:55 PM  

"I once watched a documentary about a man with a brain tumour. As the tumour grew, he began to molest his step daughter. One the tumour was surgically removed he stopped."

You watched a documentary hence materialistic monism is true?

"Traits, such as one's tolerance for such things, may to a large part, be genetic. This would certainly explain some of the cultural practices of Afghans and Pakistanis. - and why they seem so surprised when they get arrested in the west. Alas, there appears to be no objective morality"

If such is a consequence of naturalism, even the theist would agree.

"since you've premised your argument on being able to perceive an objective morality then you must consider your self to be god..."

Are you able to perceive any objective truths? The 6th paragraph of your post doesn't follow and can be reduced to a self-refuting assertion.

"All logical arguments that try to justify faith just end up tying themselves in knots."

Really? You can't think of one rational argument for theism?

"Christians are Christians because they have faith. I don't see that they need any more reason than that."

Don't you mean blind faith? If yes, then that's a straw man given that most of the Christians who post here are realist-evidentialists.

Anonymous User May 27, 2017 2:58 PM  

All causality arises in the higher world. The tumor and the molestation were both effects of a higher cause. Not everyone is going to be saved, and evil is real. I don't know why but it's observably true and the Lord told us as well.

Blogger Bellguard May 27, 2017 3:01 PM  

"Hand it over... that thing... your Dark Stream"

Anonymous Jack Amok May 27, 2017 3:25 PM  

That's the opportunity for this idea of Alt-Christianity, as I see it. It's not an attempt to create a new religion or a new church to replace the converged ones, or a denial of our differences. It's just an agreement to disagree on some things, so we can work together on common goals against the real enemies.

Rejecting Empire in favor of Federation as it were. We don't have to agree with each other on everything so long as we respect our boundaries and work together on the things we do agree on. Just like Nationalism for political boundaries.

And Damian's point #18 makes it clear Alt-Christianity doesn't need to be at war with every non-Christian tradition. It only needs to be at war with those attacking it.

I think the important step, and it's the same first step in the Alt-Right, is recognizing labels and packaging get in the way of truth. The way Conservatives and Libertarians and Liberals and "right-wing" was labeled kept us confused, supporting the wrong people. Only when you let go of the labels and the leaders who have attached their interests to those labels can you see who your allies really are, because then you have to look at actions.

Blogger SteelPalm May 27, 2017 3:45 PM  

Heh, I was just mentioning yesterday to someone that the West rediscovering and embracing Christianity would be a very positive development. (As some might know, I'm not Christian myself. I'm a presently secular Russian Jew)

The last 120 years should have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christianity has overall been a beneficial influence on white Western society.

And that without it, and whatever they decide to replace it with and worship instead (most recently, globalism and multiculturalism), said society is worse.

Some on the Alt-Right seem very resistant to this, but hopefully, they will see the light.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 27, 2017 3:48 PM  

It's just an agreement to disagree on some things, so we can work together on common goals against the real enemies.

In the real world on the ground, Catholic and Protestant college students have more in common with each other than they do with Wicca-wannabes, boomertard village atheist profs, perpetually angry radfeminists, the LGBTQ. Someone comes to campus with ash on their forehead, stand with them against the scoffers because they are part of a visible church body. Nobody is required to speak in tongues, burn candles for Mary, etc. either, just have each other's back.

Anonymous VFM #4579 May 27, 2017 4:14 PM  

badhairday wrote:@15. OGRE

RE: Objective morality

I once watched a documentary about a man with a brain tumour. As the tumour grew, he began to molest his step daughter. One the tumour was surgically removed he stopped.

It would appear that most come with a specialised region of the brain that fills one with disgust when contemplating child molestation. It is supposed that the growing tumour put pressure on this area and inhibited it.

Traits, such as one's tolerance for such things, may to a large part, be genetic. This would certainly explain some of the cultural practices of Afghans and Pakistanis. - and why they seem so surprised when they get arrested in the west.

Alas, there appears to be no objective morality. Some people just have a tendency to do things which the rest of us find disgusting.

This is not a Nihilistic argument, for in excepting that there may be no objective morality, personal morality still remains. (and to some extent is hard wired into your brain)

If there is a transcendent objective morality then you're stuck in a bind. Who can say that my perception of morality is actually moral and the paedophile's is not - other than the transcendent being? and since you've premised your argument on being able to perceive an objective morality then you must consider your self to be god...

All logical arguments that try to justify faith just end up tying themselves in knots. Christians are Christians because they have faith. I don't see that they need any more reason than that.


This is something I've had great difficulty with myself. If one's ability to follow moral laws is in part genetic, then there are people for whom following God's Law is impossible or nearly impossible for many people to follow. It wouldn't bother me so much were it not for the fact that Hell is eternal torment.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 27, 2017 5:03 PM  

Look up any church's or denomination's Articles of Faith or the equivalent. You'll be able to figure it out very quickly whether the Church body is converged, cucked, etc.

Then look at the charities the church supports, whether homosexuals and women are allowed to serve in positions of leadership, etc.

Anonymous swede May 27, 2017 5:16 PM  

@90 "My sense is that swede should start with Wallace's books, and then follow up with Schroeder's book. Wallace's stuff is more foundational. Schroeder's work is more specific, and is great for dealing with objections to the Bible like the age of the universe and evolution."

Stickwick, thank you etc, for the recommendations and kind offer to supply the books. I've ordered them from my local library, so there should be no need for any help in that regard.

Blogger Nick S May 27, 2017 5:23 PM  

@123

This is why I believe God, as the holder of the only truly objective frame of reference, is the ultimate contextualist that weighs the entire web of an individual's circumstance and experience against their every thought and action, in their proper context, to fairly judge intent. The road to hell is paved with false claims of good intentions. There will be no weasel room when you stand before Him.

Blogger Nick S May 27, 2017 5:35 PM  

RIP, Gregg Allman!

Anonymous Urban II May 27, 2017 5:37 PM  

The Alt White accusation that "Christianity is cucked" is a category mistake as it treats Christianity as nothing more than an instrument to advance some temporal order. What is important is that Christianity is True. Everything in the temporal order is subordinate to this truth.

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 5:45 PM  

Whether you want to call it so, or not...parents "indoctrinate" their kids into the religion THEY believe in..I was baptized Catholic, my wife was Methodist.

She ended up choosing Presbyterian, after going to church with friends.

I couldn't be happier that she made her own choice.

Anonymous Clay May 27, 2017 5:47 PM  

Talking about my daughter, BTW....

Anonymous Mr. Nateural May 27, 2017 5:52 PM  

No doubt as all y'all's beliefs are based in the one, true, accept-no-imitations Word of God, that is to say, *Christianity*, (i.e. the truth)* you'll welcome this visual app showing the thousands of apparent contradictions in the Bible, lots of unfulfilled possibilities for apologia! Get crackin, or your religion will look like a tissue of lies.

*(Truth not included.)

Anonymous Urban II May 27, 2017 6:04 PM  

Mr. Nateyral,

Everything you mentioned is brand new information! No one anywhere at anytime has ever come across this before!

Anonymous Rum Raisin May 27, 2017 6:06 PM  

OH MY GOD SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET SAYS THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE

Good thing there isn't an app showing the thousands of fat, ugly virgins who contributed to the making of Mr. Au Naturel's visual app. Lots of unfulfilled possibilities THERE if ya know what I mean.

Blogger Nick S May 27, 2017 6:07 PM  

@131`

Done!

Blogger Shadowjoser May 27, 2017 6:49 PM  

Does anyone, including Vox, have a source/link to a good compare and contrast on the real versus the churchian view of the Good Samaritan story? I keep getting in arguments on who my neighbor is and how to love them. Does Vox address it somewhere on the blog?

Blogger newanubis May 27, 2017 6:52 PM  

I too am a non-believer though I sincerely lament such position. It would be the lifting of a colossal burden and a tantalizing idea that universal justice both exists and is enforced. All the tentets of scripture convey the reward/righteousness of individual decency and Im hard pressed to deny the necessity of such posture to safeguard civilization as a whole.

Like to think Im receptive to the 'word' and that my conduct within it translates into a net positive via kindness, adherence to truth, condemnation of evil/malfeasance, etc.
Assuming such is the case, being essentially overlooked or spoken to in such manner as to not be able to hear is incongruent.

Like agent Moulder, I want to believe. But a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Blogger KSC May 27, 2017 6:54 PM  

@87
Heiser is pretty good, actually. not on everything, but he has a lot of excellent material on his podcast and here:
http://www.drmsh.com/

Blogger SteelPalm May 27, 2017 7:00 PM  

@135

Here are a few blog posts where Vox discusses it;

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2012/04/who-is-your-neighbor.html

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/11/mcrapey-tries-theology.html

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/03/you-cant-domesticate-ferals.html

Blogger Francis The Pope May 27, 2017 7:09 PM  

When the pope and most of the other main church leaders are all openly supporting the mass immigration of the third world into the West, it makes it very easy for me to reject the church, it requires no deep and complicated theological arguments.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 27, 2017 7:11 PM  

Meanwhile in Portlandia: two do-gooders stabbed to death in incident involving Muslims

http://www.newser.com/story/243410/2-good-samaritans-fatally-stabbed-on-portland-train.html

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 27, 2017 7:22 PM  

@101. Clay, I didn't take it as your trying to start a fight, and I was not trying to start one either.

Honestly, I took it as you understanding even less than you took credit for, and I still do.

It is what it is.

Blogger SteelPalm May 27, 2017 7:41 PM  

@140

Excellent. Maybe more of these crazed SJW do-gooders will think twice before throwing their lot in with the Muslim invaders.

I also love how the descriptor "racist" is the most damaging thing they can write about the guy, who, incidentally, was a Bernie Sanders supporter during this past election cycle.

Anonymous johnc May 27, 2017 7:54 PM  

When the pope and most of the other main church leaders are all openly supporting the mass immigration of the third world into the West, it makes it very easy for me to reject the church, it requires no deep and complicated theological arguments.

By that logic one would have to leave America because Obama is a dingbat. Or reject all of Europe because their nations' leaders are all dingbats. There is more to a country than just its leader. Sometimes nations are informally occupied territories.

Since when do we leave a country just because it has a leader in error?

Who says, "Well, I guess I'll give up my entire ancestral heritage and my rightful citizenship in the Church because this pope is a dingbat"?

If it's that simple to push good people out, then maybe the left has some amazingly effective tactics.

Blogger Volksgemeinschaft May 27, 2017 7:58 PM  

I'll throw this out there to see if anybody bites.

It appears to me there are three divions within the Alt-Right.

Alt-Light, ((( Ezra Lavent ))) and crew, Civic Nationlists, atheists. Supported by Neo Marxists

Alt- Right Vox Day solo Crusader, Ethno Nationlist founded on Christianity

Alt - Reich Anglin and his heavies, Ethno Nationlists, not critical of Chritianity but also non advocates. Supported by Likud, Mike Enoch......

Blogger Robert Coble May 27, 2017 8:00 PM  

An excellent source (mentioned previously) for those who prefer to reason toward God based on physics and philosophy:

New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy

For lighter (but very humorous) reading, consult Dr. John Lennox:

God's Undertaker: Has Science Buried God?

God and Stephen Hawking: Whose Design Is It Anyway?

Blogger Durandel Almiras May 27, 2017 8:04 PM  

One of your best periscopes, Vox.

Blogger ZhukovG May 27, 2017 8:08 PM  

@Volksgemeiinschaft: Alt-Lite are not really Alt-Right. I look at this way.

Alt-Lite = The Eisenhower Years were great...except for Jim Crow what a lovely melting pot.

Alt-Right(Alt-West)= Rule Britannia!

Alt-Right(Alt-Reich)= Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer!!

Blogger SteelPalm May 27, 2017 8:14 PM  

On the subject of the Portland stabber, this was pretty funny;

https://twitter.com/FightNowAmerica/status/868619200780259328

Hey, I think he got two of the Hillary voters! Also, worst "white supremacist" ever.

Blogger Volksgemeinschaft May 27, 2017 8:16 PM  

@Volksgemeiinschaft: Alt-Lite are not really Alt-Right. I look at this way.

Alt-Lite = The Eisenhower Years were great...except for Jim Crow what a lovely melting pot.

Alt-Right(Alt-West)= Rule Britannia!

Alt-Right(Alt-Reich)= Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer!!

-
-
Thank you for the feedback, I'm living in a bubble, my friends are too afraid to dicuss this, they know something big is going on but prefer to duck and hide for now.

Anonymous Pennywise May 27, 2017 8:27 PM  

"Excellent. Maybe more of these crazed SJW do-gooders will think twice before throwing their lot in with the Muslim invaders."

A deranged man accosts two women minding their own business, then starts Capt'n Stabb'n people who intervene on their behalf. It's not excellent, it's attempted murder. The dude is a savage.

Perhaps you should try your lot at being St. Breivik rather than dreaming of war porn.

Blogger Vikki Wilson May 27, 2017 8:28 PM  

VOX, A QUESTION

This Darkstream reminded me of David Goldman's (AKA Spengler) thesis on religion and the death of Nations.

Heavily influenced by Franz Rosenweig, he quotes that nothing is as bitter-sweet as the presentiment of ones nation's mortality, the idea that the geography of a land is not the same as different people now live here.

From this perspective (admittedly a Judeophilic one)all other nations except the US (an idea not an ethno state) and Israel (the people) WORSHIPPED THEIR OWN ETHNICITY in both their pagan religions and even when they adopted the universal church.
Goldman sees the whiteman's deadly racism as stemming from this.

Vox, What do you think of the basic notion that a people worship their own blood n' soil in these sublimated forms - especially in Paganism?

Do you have any interest in this death-of-the-nations Rosenweig theme?

Blogger SteelPalm May 27, 2017 8:33 PM  

@150 Pennywise

Sperge more, idiot. The guy is a nutcase murderer who, based on his Facebook postings, hated Christians and Jews as much as he did Muslims.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DA23tSsUQAAHEOW.jpg

However, this will be a fine lesson to SJW do-gooders that there is a risk involved with "standing up to racism". Some will now think twice and learn to be more civil. (Most won't) THAT part is excellent.

As for "two women minding their own business", cuck more. I find women in hijabs deeply uncomfortable and annoying, and so do very, very politically moderate female friends of mine.

Anonymous Mycroft Jones May 27, 2017 8:33 PM  

I was initially impressed with Michael Heiser, his study of ancient languages, and his debunking of Zechariah Sitchin. Since I can't read Egyptian hieroglyphs and Babylonian cuneiform, I had to take his word that he knew what he said, and that he was interpreting his dictionaries and texts properly.

Then someone came on my Facebook, and shared Heiser's comments on tattoo and slavery in the Bible. Heiser's confident assertions were so contrary to scripture, I now question all his debunking of Zechariah Sitchin, and everything else he has said about Scripture.

Blogger VD May 27, 2017 8:37 PM  

- Do you think Churchianity is, to a large extent, planned? Or is it an unintended consequence of the toxic modern times?

It is planned. Without question. The seminaries were invaded first.

- Do you think someone who is not Christian, but respects Christianity and even draws some goodness from it, can be of benefit to Omni Nationalism and Alt-Right?

Certainly. Hence the term "Cultural Christian", although "christian culturalist" would be more accurate.

Blogger Phillip George May 27, 2017 8:41 PM  

swede if you come back to this.
Francis Crick proposed panspermia, like that Ridley Scott Prometheus movie, because the odds of physical realities on earth explaining cellular complexity are astronomically against. So he puts the odds "out there" beyond testing.

Think about that for a long time if you can get your head around it. It is not trivial.

Entropy works like a clock. Everything is running down hill effectively. There is no beginning of a testable theory on how all these structured energy gradients existed earlier in time. Not even a hint. Why and how did entropy start "low" is beyond testing.

Finally, in jurisprudence any claim made, regardless of how easily it is made, is a face value "prima facie" case. Many can be dismissed just as quickly as they are made. Many cannot. Why does Christianity exist?

As a lawyer, and we all are, it is incumbent upon "us" to explain why claims exist.

Can they be dismissed? I suggest that your immortal well being, outside of time, hinges on real legal claims in the here and now.

We are all invested in something.


Blogger Vikki Wilson May 27, 2017 8:46 PM  

Old Ez wrote:I would argue that the Christian Identity movement is not fundamentally Christian at all. It is Judaism (racial self worship) for gentiles. Israel/"chosenness" does not have the same meaning for Christians post-Calvary as it did for Jews pre-Calvary. We are not "Jews" (Chosen) of the flesh like CI thinks, We are "Jews" of the spirit.

This is very close to the Goldman-Franz Rosenweig Jewish-supremacist view of Europeans nations Christianity.

Anonymous badhairday May 27, 2017 8:47 PM  

-Are you able to perceive any objective truths?

Sure: 'cogito ergo sum'. There might be mathematical truths as well. No *objective* moral truths.

-The 6th paragraph of your post doesn't follow and can be reduced to a self-refuting assertion.

I'm guessing your going for the 'if there is no objective truth then a statement asserting there is no objective truth must be false' thing.
Of course para. 6 is self refuting. It was an example of how apparently rational arguments for the need for an transcendent being end up annulling themselves.

-Really? You can't think of one rational argument for theism?

I used the the words logical and faith. You can produce, for example, all sorts of variations on Pascal's gamble if you need a rational argument for theism. However, Pascal's gamble just reduces to 'I choose faith because it pleases me'.

-Don't you mean blind faith? If yes, then that's a straw man given that most of the Christians who post here are realist-evidentialists.


Then show me some real evidence you realist-evidentialists. Its only a straw man if you can actually produce evidence for a deity. The closest I've ever come across is near death/deep meditation/major hallucinogen stories. I don't have any trouble with people who choose to believe or are compelled to believe through a mystical revelation. I just find the attempts to prove the unprovable a bit silly.

Its a bizarre question but why do so many Christians need to try and justify their faith with reasoned arguments? Have you been cucked by the enlightenment? What's wrong with saying 'I'm a Christian' the same way that others say 'I'm in love'?

Anonymous Jack Amok May 27, 2017 8:55 PM  

Alt-Lite are not really Alt-Right.

Alt-Lite is the recruiting pool Zhukov. They know what the problems are, they just aren't ready to admit it yet.

The dude is a savage.

That's right Pennywise. The savages are coming, by ones and twos now, by hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands soon. And the God-Emperor is your last chance to ward them off. Fail to support him and you'll have the savages at your throat.

Blogger Phillip George May 27, 2017 8:56 PM  

If people say they are in love we also look for empirical evidence of it.
love that evaporates like dew by mid morning isn't love.
feelings, like phantom pain from an amputated limb can be tested.

It's all epistemology. How do you know?
Begin with linguistic theories. A theory of language leads right to God's footstool.

Blogger Nick S May 27, 2017 9:24 PM  

Its only a straw man if you can actually produce evidence for a deity.

Why bother when it's evident you've already ignored the evidence many times and intend to continue doing so. It's your denial of your own delusions that is unreasonable.

Anonymous Anthony May 27, 2017 9:49 PM  

@badhairday - What's wrong with the Golden Rule? "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". That seems like a very solid moral rule to me. If everybody seriously followed that moral rule, the world would almost certainly be a better place than it is right now.

What ideas and morals and rules are conducive to creating good, pleasant, healthy societies that most people like living in? What type of people tend to be happy, and successful in creating new generations of people?

I think that some people overthink this, and/or put too much emphasis on unusual edge-cases over what's generally true. If something is generally true it can still have objective value.

Blogger OGRE May 27, 2017 10:46 PM  

The evidence I've offered is your own mental state. If you deny that you actually believe in moral truth then so be it--this particular argument will be unpersuasive. But I have never once in my life--including ten years as a criminal defense attorney and 4 years as a philosophy undergrad surrounded by argumentative atheists--come across someone who acted in a manner consistent with a disbelief in morality. Everyone who would make the claim that morality did not exist, or that it was just an illusion, would constantly make moral judgments all day every day. "This asshole cut me off" "The government should do/not do this" "Kids don't have manners anymore" "Religion is bad because it causes war" Moral judgments from the mundane to the profound, but all indicating that deep down the speaker believes in moral truth. I could probably argue that humans are incapable of truly disbelieving in morality. But my observations include a 100% success rate that all humans act as if they believe in objective morality, even those who claim to believe otherwise.

If one honestly believe there is no objective moral truth, and is able to act consistent with that belief--refraining from offering moral judgments, from condemning the evil and from praising the good, from arguing that the world should be like this or that, from being upset when attacked or harmed--then so be it. I've yet to come across such a person, nor have I ever seen evidence of such a person existing. But a person such as that...an argument from morality is not for them.

Regarding belief in general...all belief systems rely to a degree on faith. Are you coming from an empiricist worldview? Then you have faith in your senses and the accuracy of them. Even when evidence shows that your senses can deceive you, you generally trust them. On what basis do you do so? Do you come from a rationalist world view, that knowledge only comes from the application of reason? On what basis do you trust your own application of logic? You know you make mistakes of fact and of logic all the time...why trust any of the deductions you make?

If you have no faith in anything, then you are dead set on a nihilistic fate. (or at the least solipsism.) This path has been taken many times before by men much more intelligent than us and it leads to the same result every time. To convince oneself otherwise takes more blind faith than a belief in a transcendent being, as at least belief in the transcendent can be consistent within a world view. A belief in meaning and value absent transcendence cannot.

Blogger Nick S May 27, 2017 10:48 PM  

Is every atheist that has ever served on a jury that sentenced someone to the death penalty on purely circumstantial evidence, for which a competent defense attorney had obviously presented alternate explanations for, a complete and total hypocrite?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 27, 2017 10:58 PM  

@162. OGRE, Spot on.

Blogger ZhukovG May 27, 2017 11:23 PM  

@Jack Amok: That's right, they are ours to win or lose. The thing to bear in mind is that despite my rather simplistic answer to Volksgemeinschaft, people within groups vary on the degree to which they adhere to a groups principles.

The Alt-Lite is less a group and more a crowd, within which are groups that are at varying degrees ready to move further towards the Alt-Right or in some cases move to the Globalist Left.

Its worth noting at this point that I consider Establishment Conservatives to be part of the Globalist Left.

I also identify another group in the Globalist Left which could be called the Vichy-Right, which includes people like Rod Dreher, who act as though resistance is useless and appear to be begging for an armistice with the Left. This group is dangerous because they also make appeals to preserve Western Christianity, but on whatever terms the enemy will allow.

These two groups are also trying to woo the Alt-Lite.

Fortunately the Left appears to be laboring mightily to drive the Alt-Lite towards the Alt-Right and this will accelerate the more they.... well... just be themselves.

Anonymous Didas Kalos May 27, 2017 11:55 PM  

Only problem is that Mr. Ross doesn't believe the scriptures. He believes "science over scripture.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 28, 2017 12:02 AM  

Zhukov, yes, the Left is driving them to us, but there's a reason I describe the Alt-Light as those who know but don't admit. They know what's wrong. They see the problems with, shall we call it Received Equality? They see what's happened to their communities, their friends, and their children's future because of globalism. They know the immivasionists don't like them, don't give a damn about their traditions, and are just here to grub as much as possible. They know feminism is a mental disorder and homosexuality too. They know, they know, they know... but they haven't found the strength to cast away their long-held beliefs. They don't want to think of themselves as racists, or sexists, or -phobes of whatever sort.

But the left is the amygdala-hacked party, the political manifestation of SJWism (Progressivism, SJW-ism, and Feminism all share some interesting core traits. Fundamentally I think they are just various manifestations of what happens when life's losers get ahold of some power). They can't just accept tolerance, they must have agreement, you must bend the knee to them. So they won't let the Alt-Lite put their fingers in their ears and say la-la-la-la, they demand everyone Declare.

We're best served by forcing no one to Declare. If they're not attacking us, we've nothing but civil words for them. And there's always a spot at the campfire if they want to come in and chat for a spell.

Blogger Quilp May 28, 2017 1:01 AM  

Do you have any suggestions for finding faith?

Since you've asked, actually try reading what people here suggest, but also just keep at it. I was once at a low point after the death of a young family member, and for some reason picked up James V Schall "Another sort of learning". For me, that book (while not really a book on faith) opened me up to the light again (besides having wonderful lists of more reading material). I still don't know why I ordered that book, but trust your intuition. Be open.

Blogger John Wright May 28, 2017 3:26 AM  

@11
"Do you have any suggestions for finding faith? I see the necessity of religion, and Christianity in particular, but aside from history and cultural affinity I don't have actual belief."

Pray.

Also, consider that the Christian worldview is more coherent, robust, and rational than any secular worldview.

Our model explains things such as why stars look fair and beautiful to our eyes when it serves no credible Darwinian purpose to do so.

Our model explains the naturalistic fallacy, that is, the gap between 'is' and 'ought' which secular philosophy cannot explain, and some cannot even address.

Our model explains how free will can exist inside a deterministic universe. A materialist cannot even formulate the question in a rational way.

Our model explains why humans seek beauty. Social-evolutionary explanations for this are less convincing than astrology.

Our model explains how creatures with free will capable of grasping intellectual abstractions can arise in a universe which contains no such thing as intellectual abstractions.

Our model allows investigation of final causes in nature, without which nature cannot properly be understood.

Our model explains the prevalence of so many theists throughout history. The theory that over nine tenths of mankind, including some of the most brilliant thinkers in their age, were raving lunatics who hallucinate about imaginary sky beings is not credible and not supported by evidence.

Our model explains the various miracles and supernatural wonders that are in the older history books, and which, for no scientific reason, were excised from being reported.

Our model explains both why there is a plurality of religions and why there are striking similarities between them.

Our model explains the origin of the universe. By definition, if the universe were all that existed, exists and ever will exist, than a material cause for it is impossible.

Our modern explains the current hegemony of the West and makes clear the meaning and purpose of what otherwise seems like insane and suicidal attempts by the apparently sober and sane men on Left to undermine and destroy it.

Our model explains why you should not let your daughter whore around. She is immortal, and will outlast any nation, and language, any institution and human work on Earth.

Our model explains why you should not, once you have truly and deeply contemplated the vastness of the universe and the oppressive span of time to follow the death of everything you know, fall into despair, and end your meaningless life.

Our model gives something to live for nobler than one's own pleasure seeking.

Our model avoids the logical paradox of asserting man can create meaning in life out of a vacuum. That would require an ability to create meaning out of meaninglessness, which is absurd.

Our model explains why men and women are different, and how we must arrange the dangerous mystery of the mating dance between the sexes to improve our chances to achieve joy rather than misery.

Our model gives rational hope of seeking the departed dead again.

Our model explains human psychology better than perverted old Freud dressing up old Greek myths in make believe, and far better than cranky old Thomas Hobbes and his cynicism.

Our model makes sense. Others are either incorrect, incomplete, or paradoxical, or lead immediately to wrath or despair at the futility of life and the bitterness of death.

There are additional reasons beyond this. All human reason can do is clear away false objections to faith. Faith itself is a supernatural gift bestowed by God to protect his own from the sudden, irrational loss of confidence in the self evident to which our foolish race is prone.

Blogger John Wright May 28, 2017 3:37 AM  

". . . given that there exists no variant of the Christian Church that actually does preach expelling non-white invaders from the European homelands..."

We Catholics revere Saint James Matamoros, otherwise known as Saint James the Moor Slayer.

None of these younger, new-comer denominations ever fought in the Crusades. The Catholics in Spain drove them out. The Greek Orthodox did not.

Just sayin'.

Blogger John Wright May 28, 2017 3:52 AM  

@84

Or maybe when the man had the tumor, he thought he was about to die from it, and his inhibitions were cast aside when his roving eye fell upon his luscious step daughter. Or the think in his head jarred his thinking like strong drink or lack of sleep.

You materialists always pick the least likely, least disprovable hence least scientific explanation for human behavior first. Is this due to a genetic defect in your science gene?

"Traits, such as one's tolerance for such things, may to a large part, be genetic. "

As a White Man, and not a Hindu in love with a caste system, I lack the gene that allows me to tolerate your theory.

If you were of nobler and purer blood, you would likewise.

I cannot argue the point, I can only recommend you have the defective part of your brain excised by a skilled surgeon, or the flaw in your bloodline mended by gene replacement theurapy.

In Christ there is neither Greek nor Jew. The Church does not teach that there are certain races, tribes, and bloodlines of men on whom the sacrament of baptism is nonfunctional.

Who, praytell, lacks the Christ gene?

Blogger John Wright May 28, 2017 4:05 AM  

@ 104
" It's a very naively Christian viewpoint these SJWs hold, and entirely Christian even though they don't realize it. "

Amen. Everything in the West is a product of the Church. Some of it is orthodox, and some is heretical. Mohammed was a heretic: he did not invent a thing. He just wanted a form of Christianity without Christ. Marx was basically preaching the heresy of Millennialism, and told people to live like monks, sharing their common property. The modern Left are basically Gnostics, who seek the overthrow of an evil world-system to free the spirit from its bodily bondage. Gnostics have always been fascinated by sexual perversion, because perversion denies the physical side of man.

And so on. Nietzsche is just Christianity with the positive and negative signs reversed.

The SJWs are like Calvinists in that they believe in double predestination, but unlike Calvinists (who are honorable; if they are mistaken, it is an honest mistake) in that they are damnable fools. The SJW have no explanation in a Godless universe as to how anything can be predestined. The SJW hold that you can tell who is saved and who is damned at birth by skin color: Whites are the reprobate; blacks are the elect.

Even those who set about to overthrow Christianity use Christian categories, moral insights, terms and axioms to establish their attack. SJWs do not preach buddhistic renunciation.

Anonymous badhairday May 28, 2017 6:18 AM  

@161. Anthony

The golden rule is great. Its how most nice people try to live. Its also subjective.

@162. OGRE

Exactly right. All those people demonstrating different moralities. Its almost as if different people can have a profoundly different experience of existence.

@171. John Wright
So why do psychopaths have a noticeable difference in the architecture of their brains? Coincidence?

"and his inhibitions were cast aside when his roving eye fell upon his luscious step daughter"

-and his inhibitions were cast aside when a swelling tumour disabled the part of his brain that inhibited. I don't know about you, but I don't consciously find children attractive. The idea of secretly lusting after a child, hoping for the fraptious day when my desires could be set free is out of my experiential range. I do however find the thought that an illness or injury could change that state of affairs highly disturbing.

Baptising someone doesn’t seem guarantee their future behaviour one way or another. You've heard about what some priests get up to right?

Blogger JimR May 28, 2017 9:22 AM  

As an atheist, I have no problem supporting cultural Christianity.

(Evil is real, I just don't know what to do about it, other than shooting people.)

Blogger WarKicker May 28, 2017 11:20 AM  

badhairday,

Thank you for your responses.


"I'm guessing your going for the 'if there is no objective truth then a statement asserting there is no objective truth must be false' thing.
Of course para. 6 is self refuting. It was an example of how apparently rational arguments for the need for an transcendent being end up annulling themselves."

I think you missed the point. You expelled yourself from your own metric.

"Then show me some real evidence you realist-evidentialists. Its only a straw man if you can actually produce evidence for a deity. I just find the attempts to prove the unprovable a bit silly."

Predictable. What evidence would be convincing? I have a graduate degree in evolutionary biology and have yet to find neodarwinism compelling and agree with Lewontin's assessment of it as a "panglossian paradigm". Perhaps the metric you and I have set are too high? Regarding proving the unprovable, there are countless examples of things unprovable you and I enjoy or take for granted but that doesn't stop us from studying them. I don't recall anyone here offering proof of God's existence but suggesting evidences for him. The inference to the best explanation when examining the evidence of course is up to you. Maybe it was a Freudian slip but are you now asking for proof rather than evidence?

"Its a bizarre question but why do so many Christians need to try and justify their faith with reasoned arguments? Have you been cucked by the enlightenment? What's wrong with saying 'I'm a Christian' the same way that others say 'I'm in love'?"

That is a bizarre question. Why would any thoughtful person not want to make sure his or her worldview makes sense? Do non-theist have a monopoly on reason and logic? Isn't Christianity steeped in tradition regarding life of the mind and intellectual pursuits? There are multiple references in the Bible that suggest this should be an important endeavor for all Christians.

Thanks for the banter! Cheers!

Blogger John Wright May 28, 2017 1:36 PM  

@ 173
"So why do psychopaths have a noticeable difference in the architecture of their brains? Coincidence?"

So why do materialists combine the logical fallacies of begging the question, strawman argument, changing the subject, and false dichotomy, not to mention the factual fallacy of junk science, into rhetorical questions, rather than argue the point like honest men? I blame brain architecture. Your logic lobe is stunted.

Blogger John Wright May 28, 2017 1:41 PM  

@173
"Baptising someone doesn’t seem guarantee their future behaviour one way or another. You've heard about what some priests get up to right?"

Strawman again, false dichotomy again, rhetorical flourishes rather than any direct address of the point raised again. You do not know what the Church teaches about baptism, so you made something up in your wee little head for yourself, and you direct the force of your broadside against that.

The answer to the question, 'why adopt a view of human behavior that is non-disprovable hence non-scientific' is not to say 'why, look! There are SINNERS in that Church!!!'

Dolt. There are sinners in Church for the same reason there are sick people in hospital.

Perhaps you should shelf this issue until you are older.

Anonymous BadThink655321 May 28, 2017 8:27 PM  

John Wright wrote:Who, praytell, lacks the Christ gene?
Perhaps those who are "ever learning, but never able to come to the truth." (2 Tim 3:7).

Still, genes are only one component of a tremendously complex physical system -- a physical system that is plastic, that is, able to change it's configuration based on environment. Because of this complexity, the nature vs. nurture debate will likely never be resolved.

badhairday wrote:If there is a transcendent objective morality then you're stuck in a bind. Who can say that my perception of morality is actually moral and the paedophile's is not - other than the transcendent being?
There are some clues in nature to the answer. Morality is the label we give to the direction and length of paths toward a goal. Paths that lead to a goal are good, shorter paths are better. Paths that lead away from a goal are bad. In nature, there are two ultimate choices: the choice to live and the choice to die. Life being the prerequisite for all other choices; death being the state where no more choice are possible. If life is the choice, then there are ways to achieve that goal -- the most general being the iterated prisoner's dilemma. Evolution has wired our brains to understand that defection is bad and cooperation is good. So those who choose life find padeophilia abhorrent, because it ruins the lives of the children and is therefore an example of massive defection against a person.

YMMV.

Blogger Phillip George May 28, 2017 9:11 PM  

I- padophilia ??

and all this goal directed volition comes from the random flows of energy on inorganic materials. The magic is simply time.
With 15 billion years rocks express their volition.

teleology is language process.

So listen very closely to those rock. The dead stuff is talking.

Blogger Wanderer20 May 28, 2017 9:53 PM  

I am new to this blog and also to the AltRight and have been curious about the association between the AltRight and Christianity. Just a little background, I was raised a fundamentalist Christian, but left the faith after obtaining my Masters of Divinity from an SJW seminary, and this is the first time that I am posting here. I think my faith may have been maintained had I attended a more conservative seminary (and I must admit that I miss my faith), but now I do not think that I will ever see Jesus the same again.

I harbor absolutely no ill-will towards Christianity and completely agree that the success of the revival of Western Civ largely depends on the revival of cultural Christianity, however, I also believe this is because Christendom historically (although not Christ himself nor the modern church) best encapsulates western values and can communicate them succinctly to a population that has an average IQ of 100.

As for Christ himself, I have trouble reconciling most of his teachings and the example of the early Church to the bulk of the teaching of the AltRight. I recently finished Cuckservative, and admittedly it made me reflect on several biblical passages that I have commonly associated with SJW doctrine. Nevertheless, it is one thing to acknowledge that the Bible may not be SJW in nature, and quite a different thing to believe that the Bible advocates an ideology compatible with the AltRight. In my understanding, and attempting to be as objective as possible, Jesus was an ascetic whose ministry was primarily focused on the marginalized of society and who preached about the close arrival of the kingdom of Heaven. I would not say that He (or Paul or Peter) were necessarily anti-government, but they did seem to be suspicious of those in power, and therefore would be suspicious of the use of force/violence, which the AltRight seems to largely advocate for. I won't dive into any more detail unless someone desires to genuinely dialogue with me concerning this topic.

I would love for someone to show me the compatibility between Christianity and the AltRight as I miss my faith and would very much and would be open to worshipping a God that was more masculine. However, I can't seem to shake the idea of Christ as somewhat effeminate, although I would never accuse anyone on this blog of begin such.

Blogger Phillip George May 28, 2017 11:19 PM  

John Wright,
I ate lunch since my last post.
I have now come to believe that @BadThink655321 is trying to explain to you that you don't understand Evolution because, silly, evolution explains itself. Like morals exist because they help the fittest to survive. See. Now you know how evolution works and are a scientist.

Wanderer20. Did Jesus rise from the dead? Like was he really actually dead? Lee Strobel's book deals with believing. Personally I enjoy all the scientific arguments.
Everything else is peripheral.
But, "How should we now then live" is a good question. Maybe you should answer it.

Blogger Phillip George May 29, 2017 12:18 AM  

the genius of Mark Steyn goes on and one and on

As He died to make men holy
Let us die to make men free
While God is marching on.

posted for Wanderer20

Blogger Wanderer20 May 29, 2017 10:46 AM  

Phillip George, thank you for responding. In answering the question of, "Did Jesus rise from the dead?" and in attempt to more accurately illustrate my intellectual dilemma, I would respond that no, I do not believe Jesus rose from the dead because I do not think he was God. I do not believe that Jesus was God because of how he lived his life and what he taught. Intending no disrespect to you or anyone else, but my belief concerning miracles since I lost my faith has been that if God wanted me to believe in Jesus Christ due to miracles, then God could perform such miracles before me anytime. I don't think stories about miracles could ever convince me that someone was God.

But, I digress. My larger point and the reason I posted was to see if someone could show me by biblical precedent that I am wrong about Christ and his teachings. I am attempting to be open to the fact that I could be wrong about Jesus and that he is not the passive hippy that I commonly think of him as (please don't anyone quote Jesus clearing the temple again... as this is always used as the one example of Jesus exerting testosterone. Or, for the matter, how Jesus took a "strong moral stand against the Pharisees"), but rather that his ethic and teachings would lead to a strong and stable society without first going through the stringent filters of hellenistic reason and the roman understanding of law and justice.

I mean, I just think of the sermon of the mount. I see Jesus as the guy who says, "You guise, not allll muslims are terrorists. #COEXIST" Now, somewhat ironic to be found in the same book, the OT is almost an instruction manual on ethnic purity, the danger of multiculturalism, and how to implement divine justice. However, I tend to believe that Jesus and the early church deviated from this significantly.

I remember Vox saying recently about Anders Breivik that he did not believe that God has the same problem with war that most modern Christians do. I couldn't agree more about God's understanding of war, but I am wondering if someone could introduce me to this God in the NT?

Blogger Phillip George May 29, 2017 6:08 PM  

Well wanderer20, It starts like this.
Why does Christianity exist.
The only reasonable explanation is that the disciples believed what they were apart of.
They believe that they had credible evidence before their very eyes that someone who was dead wasn't anymore.
This is not a trivial point.
If the resurrection happened and Paul says the entire notion of Christianity is ludicrous without it the what is Jesus like?
Well then, this gives rise to, did Jesus imply that He existed before the foundation of the Earth. Did He imply that He was involved in OT events.
If you consider evidence such as Jacob Prasch's Metatrone midrash pesher exegesis then it really was simply Jesus who told Joshua to go in and kill man woman and child stone dead.
It's not so much that Jesus is a passivist or a warrior - the question is death looks entirely different to someone outside of 4 D time space who can witness death as easily as a stage manager can witness a paid actor leaving the stage.

See Wanderer. The temporal is something of an illusion. The hyperdimensional or parallel dimensions are the "more" permanent aspects of our nature. The natural is the ephemeral.

I could go on and on all day about the scientific evidence.
This is more a quick presentation of the forensic. That which could and maybe will be used in a prosecution case.

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