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Wednesday, May 31, 2017

Darkstream: why Communism is better than free markets

This one should amuse the VFM. I sort of lost my patience with the midwits and binary thinkers who think that the correct way to respond to someone saying something original is to quote conventional boilerplate of the sort that anyone who is even half-educated already knows. Anyhow, it should also interest those of an economic bent, as in the course of explaining the observation that Communism is better for a nation in the long-term than liberal democratic capitalism, (the what, if you will) I was able to explain the economic reasons why that always had to be the case.

This doesn't mean that socialism isn't economically retarded; it is. But it is that very retardation that tends to protect a nation from the ravages of the global free markets. And if you're tempted to respond that the global markets aren't truly free, well, watch the Darkstream first.

It might help to remember the fact that X being better than Y does not mean that X is either good or desirable in itself.

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143 Comments:

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 31, 2017 8:44 PM  

Laughing so hard. You are awesome. This one is better than when you and White Buffalo pulled off that poetry reading heist.

Blogger HalibetLector May 31, 2017 8:58 PM  

I wonder what would happen if you had free trade within US states, but heavily regulated international and interstate trade. Would it result in every state manufacturing their own goods and food? Or would it result in massive shortages of goods and food except for the few who can afford to pay to import them?

Blogger YIH May 31, 2017 9:00 PM  

YIH said...:
Actually there is small-scale ''communism'', the Kibbutz colonies in what is now Israel (the first ones were founded before WWI). The three biggest problems with ''communism'' is that it requires most of the group to work in some capacity (farming, producing goods, homemaking, child-rearing, mutual defense such as security guards) and be capable of doing useful work. IOW, few or no ''free riders'' (such as small children, the infirm/elderly). The other problem is it doesn't 'scale'; at most 100-200 people, more than that and managing people becomes a problem, think of how a company is structured with departments specializing in various things. Another problem is trust, the collective has to have familial/mutual friendship/religious bonds across the group - ''lone wolf'' types need not apply.
''It doesn't scale'', and it requires nearly all of the ''commune'' to 'pull their own weight'.
In the case of North Korea and Cuba, everybody is forced by a sadistic dictator to do whatever they can for the 'collective'.

Anonymous Merry Englander May 31, 2017 9:05 PM  

I have often thought that places like Poland and Slovakia are protected by their poverty. Yeah, they lose many fine people, but they avoid gaining many without loyalty and connection.

Poland stays Poland, Slovakia stays Slovakia.

Will be interesting to hear where this Darkstream goes.

Blogger Nate May 31, 2017 9:07 PM  

I'll be interested to see how one form of slow suicide is preferable to another form of slow suicide.

Anonymous Sharrukin May 31, 2017 9:08 PM  

I will say that the former communist nations of the Warsaw Pact seem to have a greater cultural cohesion and a willingness on the part of the voters to elect strong patriotic leaders.

Perhaps it was just a sort of cultural stasis during the decades under communist rule, but it is serving them well now.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 31, 2017 9:08 PM  

No you can't have "national free markets" not in massive nations like America. That is nonsensical. The free movement of people within the US is having a horrific effect on the culture.

But hell, at least you can find a Cracker Barrel in North Dakota.

Damn food.

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 31, 2017 9:18 PM  

"Global" communism, in practice, is demonstrably better than globalism.

Practiced communism failed to take root where it was supposed to and it fostered national pride in lieu of the brotherhood of workers. Vietnam is still Vietnam. China is still China. Cuba is still Cuba. And yes, Venezuela is still Venezuela.

Great Britain is not Great Britain. America is not America. Sweden is not Sweden.

They would be under and after communism.

Blogger SirHamster May 31, 2017 9:23 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Laughing so hard. You are awesome. This one is better than when you and White Buffalo pulled off that poetry reading heist.

I had to laugh, too.

The need to keep telling people to shut up this Darkstream are an illustration of MPAI, and a downside of being Alpha - you HAVE to deal with the idiots.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 31, 2017 9:28 PM  

Very interesting. At the end of the day, most of the free-market defenders from the right are left only with some variant of the "no-true Scotsman" fallacy as an argument against the main point made by VD. A more advanced argument - which a few of the darkstream remarks touched upon - is that a free-market itself is a utopian myth at the end of the day. All markets are rigged to a greater or lesser extent. This itself is a variant of the communist recitation that real communism hasn't yet been attempted - the regimes of the past century or more which self-identified as communist were somehow imposters.

The thing few seem to notice about folks like Zuckerberg and Bezos is that they are only in favor of free markets insofar as the "free market" works to their own advantage. Both are very much against the a drastic loosening of IP laws which enable them to stop possible competition in their tracks, yet are in favor of undermining laws regarding immigration and imports. The whole game with this gang vis-a-vis laws and regulation is to socialize their costs while privatizing their profits. At the end of the day, VD's assertion - communism is less fatal to a nation and its people than free-market capitalism - holds true with respect to the historical record. A lot to think about here.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky May 31, 2017 9:31 PM  

That was my new fave for the best Darkstream evah!!! LOL, the struggles of our SDL dealing with the human, all too human!

Yeah on the 'destruction of our small town thing', I had this same revelation after Kevin D. Williamson published his infamous "Garbutt, NY" article in the March 28th, 2016 edition of National Review. And I actually had a run-in with him and a debate out it that got pretty heated.

In his case, at least, I'm pretty sure he fully understands the point about how free markets necessitate free movement of labor, destruction of community and nation, and so forth. He's not only okay with it he celebrates it, and he harbors absolute contempt for you if you're not with the program or can't hang. What, you didn't U-Haul it out after your town got sold down the river? Well then you're morally indefensible as person. You deserve to die. Yes, that's EXACTLY his attitude. He's not shy or reticent about it one bit, in fact he's quite the asshole about it.

He continues to enjoy full support over at NRO and in Washington think tanks. Even on the radio Mark Levin went out to the masses and proclaimed, "Kevin is right in spirit, wrong on tone" in defense of that shocking article and the blowback it created.

So I think there's very much an awareness about your point regarding the requirement of the free movement of labor and its effects, Vox. That they haven't developed any kind of answer to the problem is quite telling to me. Tells me they are evil bastards, mainly, but it tells me this quite loudly.

Blogger valiance. May 31, 2017 9:36 PM  

holy fuck that was hilarious. watching you shit on your own viewers is amazing.

Anonymous DirkH May 31, 2017 9:49 PM  

@3. YIH:
More problems with Kibbuzim are that they must be constantly subsidized, and that women cannot be the property of a man, so there's Frankist wife-swapping. Modern jewish communism is just a continuation of Frankism / Sabbatheism.

Anonymous Eduardo May 31, 2017 10:09 PM  

31st Of May: The day Vox removed our dunning Kruger syndrome problem with well surgically placed 12 gauge shot to our kneecaps. LOL.

Vox I might have started to suffer from Stockolm Syndrome by being hostage of your awesome intelligence, I have actually started to like being intellectually challenged by you. That sounded gay, my bad!

Oh btw, pretttty damn good to see your narcissism is still alive and kicking us in the balls. But Vox, isn't maybe the best answer is that people expect a kneejerk speech from you? I mean I don't think they want to listen to you, they actually wanna see you reconfirm their beliefs, or if anything, reinforce'em! When you just Zidane them with no warning, people get defensive and aggressive.

Anonymous MG42 May 31, 2017 10:14 PM  

Inject a little Russian humor here:

Under Capitalism man exploits man...under Communism it's the other way around.

Blogger tz May 31, 2017 10:20 PM  

Sigh. "Free trade" is one of the most discussed and DEBUNKED topics from Ricardo to Hazlitt and while there may be those new here, it is pushing things not to be informed.

When you have a debate with Bob Murphy moderated by Tom Woods, you should listen to it.

And the most obvious example of market failure is the inability of Apple to make an iPad with a sensitive enough microphone or enough volume.

Blogger ZhukovG May 31, 2017 10:25 PM  

That was the first Darkstream I've watched. With the exception of the inane comments, it was very good. It was an excellent point. Of course an ebola epidemic will keep people away from your neighborhood too, while generally killing less people.

Then again how many millions of people has Globalism killed?

Blogger tz May 31, 2017 10:28 PM  

The problem is by "free markets" they mean "lawless markets", or as I ask libertarians if I can hire thieves or assassins who are just entrepreneurs providing a market service.

The market is totally amoral, like nature that will destroy large sections of the earth on occasion.

Communism is immoral, but the evil is more visible so the black market tends to be restrained to efficiency instead of vice like drugs and prostitution in "free market" countries.

Blogger Lazarus May 31, 2017 10:31 PM  

I won't see the Darkstream until tomorrow, but I thought I would just throw this in :



“The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property.”

— Karl Marx, The Communist Manifesto

Maybe relevant, maybe not. Just a thought.

Blogger Basil Makedon May 31, 2017 10:32 PM  

Kek! I don't even have to watch it to know what you did. Hysterical.

Blogger Super Method May 31, 2017 10:39 PM  

I think I came in right as the cruelty artist began to put paint to canvas. It was good.

Blogger Bellguard May 31, 2017 10:48 PM  

AMERICA WILL NEVER FALL TO COMMUNIST INVASION

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 31, 2017 10:53 PM  

tz wrote:
The problem is by "free markets" they mean "lawless markets", or as I ask libertarians if I can hire thieves or assassins who are just entrepreneurs providing a market service.

The market is totally amoral, like nature that will destroy large sections of the earth on occasion.

Communism is immoral, but the evil is more visible so the black market tends to be restrained to efficiency instead of vice like drugs and prostitution in "free market" countries.


Good point, and here's another odd thing about the so-called "free-market" advocated by the likes of Zuckerberg: The expected unending growth. Does the corn planted by a farmer grow continuously and spread over the untended earth at the same time? This appears to be the "normalcy" expected by the operators of the Bankster-casino known as the "free-market". It's exactly the lawless market you describe - for those who are allowed to participate on the winning side of the rigged game being conducted in the casino. The poor unsuspecting fools with things like pension funds, IRAs, etc. ... just look at what happened in Cyprus a couple of years back, or even with MF Global and Corzine (who is being rehabilitated by the Carlos Slim blog and the other pizza aficionados now - after walking away with 1.6 billion on customer funds). There is no law - for them.

Communism was a sham and a racket as well, and there are numerous historical examples of it around. The one thing which - interestingly - seems to apply is the theory that any avowedly communist society will have such a rotten standard of living for the majority that there will be no demand or desire for migrants. The so-called "free-markets" (I still wonder if the position that a free-market is basically a romantic-utopian notion which exists only in the minds of its believers) as practiced by Zuckerberg, et al ends up in the same position as that of a communist society - except on a global scale - a small elite in control of everything, ruling over a vast open-air prison made up of slaves/zeks/proles - having their pizza and eating it too (so to speak).

Blogger Matthew May 31, 2017 11:14 PM  

Nate wrote:I'll be interested to see how one form of slow suicide is preferable to another form of slow suicide.

Booze versus Snicker bars.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable May 31, 2017 11:15 PM  

holy fuck that was hilarious. watching you shit on your own viewers is amazing.

And yet they keep coming back for more.

Blogger newanubis May 31, 2017 11:18 PM  

Seems to me its nearly impossible to defecate with the 6" diametered globalist finger in the sphincter. Nations are simply unable at this point to implement policies that benefit themselves without massive interference and control grid xountermeasures being immediately implemented.

The hope that there may be a crack in the dam forming can arguably be seen in the repudiation of establishment stranglehold (Trump election) and renunciation of collective nation screwing by the EU (Brexit)

Additionally, i see the trend as our friend as each day the chips in the dam become bigger and the patchwork by globalist deconstructionists shoddier and more hasty.

Shout out to our host: my chisel is both larger and stronger due to the effective lessons of wielding learned here.

Anonymous TroubleSpeak May 31, 2017 11:21 PM  

The argument that the free markets as practiced aren't truly free or that it isn't "pure" capitalism never made sense in the first place. One of the main selling points of free markets is that it does not *have* to be "pure" in order to work well. It is not utopian. Each increment of free markets produces an increase in prosperity. The principle of Free Markets should work in any dose and work best in larger doses.

But the largest dose of free markets possible, globalism, as Vox demonstrated, does not lead the nation to prosperity. The best approach would probably be a laissez faire approach to domestic markets and property buffered by judicious regulation of foreign capital and labor.

Blogger Thucydides May 31, 2017 11:27 PM  

Certainly stands conventional wisdom on its head. For people like me with limited connectivity (due to working in the middle of nowhere) do you publish transcripts? It would be very interesting to read

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 31, 2017 11:29 PM  

No. You still need freedom of association, not laissez faire in country. Cultures need to be able to reject multicult.

I do not know what it is, but I know that such a rejection is coming.

Blogger tuberman May 31, 2017 11:41 PM  

I've never been a Libertarian,or a free market advocate. I've never thought well of University of Chicago Econ Professors (just strong suspicious feelings toward crap like "The Invisible Hand.").

So, I see the results of Free Market Ideas, and I know you are correct, but all I have is the practical observations of what has happened, but no Economics background to argue it like you.

I've spent much of my life being an Individualist who was as apolitical as possible, and in the 1990's when that was no longer possible to me, I became a PaleoConservative. I discovered the Alt-Right when they were the only ones telling the truth about what was going on in Europe about four years ago.

Follow the Truth is what I try to do now.

Anonymous VFM(formerly)#0007 June 01, 2017 12:07 AM  

That was seriously entertaining.

Blogger Sam June 01, 2017 12:18 AM  

@27
Actually each dosage of free market doesn't necessarily produce improvements. If I remember correctly the models only show absolute (spherical cow) free markets maximizing efficiency.

The best way to understand this is to look at post Soviet Russia where the transition to capitalism was so bad (it turns out it is cheaper to bribe the police to look the other way when you beat and kill people than to pay for property) that life expectancy for Russia took about 2008-2012 to return to Soviet levels.

Blogger Koanic June 01, 2017 12:26 AM  

At heart Vox is just a coca-leaf addicted Indian alcoholic Communist looking to build his pyramid of skulls.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl June 01, 2017 12:28 AM  

@33 Koanic

And there is nothing wrong with that ;)

But really, what is life without some leaf, some ale, some conquered peoples under the iron heel? IS it really "life"?

Blogger weka June 01, 2017 12:30 AM  

Marxism is a failed model that informed too much economic theory durit the twentieth century.

Imperialism is simpler and protects those jobs that are in the strategic interest.

Such as shipyards and steelworks.

Globalism, like Stalinism, only benefits the nomenklatura.

Blogger Koanic June 01, 2017 12:35 AM  

As the Aztecs always say, he who has no heart must borrow someone else's!

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl June 01, 2017 12:38 AM  

I haven't listened to the Darkstream yet, but a preliminary thought:

"Communism" as we know it in the West is really Eastern Despotism transposed by a self-hating/apostate Jewish dude who wanted to be a Philosopher King...

And a family funded by a central earner (the father) practices redistribution...

OpenID dreadilkzee June 01, 2017 12:50 AM  

So need to have the "Basic Bitch" added to the glossary of things you shouldn't do with Vox.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl June 01, 2017 12:50 AM  

RE: Communism fostering national identity - was communism not working. Communism was supposed to remake society completely on a global scale.

The fact that Russian or Polish or Chinese identity became solidified showed a failure of Communism, hence the "cultural Marxism" where you do the long march through the institutions and change the culture and people first, rather than top-down.

The whole idea of "cultural hegemony" as a thing was cooked up because communism failed in stopping Russians from being Russian.

OpenID dreadilkzee June 01, 2017 12:56 AM  

VD really needs to just ignore the early comments stream. Turn them off put a card on the screen so you don't see it. You get distracted by it to easy.

And yes I am viewing this 4 hours late. Food for though next time.

Blogger Megamerc June 01, 2017 1:02 AM  

Quite an interesting Darkstream, and funny as well for VFM, Ilk, and Dread Ilk. One does not simply interrupt the Supreme Darklord with standard dogma and not get sent to Malwyn for corrective punishment.

It was probably jarring for non-VFM, but the midwits can find solace in their parrotry with other midwits.

On the subject of free markets, advocates for the same will eventually be seen as traitors to the nation, culture, and country. Capitalists were hunted down in Communist countries, and they same may happen in whatever protectionist economic system replaces current free markets. The rich who currently sell the country's sovereignty for 20 pieces of silver will hang themselves whether they mean to or not.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl June 01, 2017 1:07 AM  

Watching now - holy crap! The dum-dums wouldn't let up! This is why I stopped going in libertarian circles. As soon as you mention "protection" they get a bug up their...abdomen...and go "COMMIE!!!!!"

At least they should listen to the argument! Oy. I may disagree on some matters (the intent vs. the effect of communism in European countries), but can agree on the overall thrust of what's being said.

Anonymous DreadIlk7817 June 01, 2017 1:17 AM  

The search for utopia is a hard one to let go of. It's hard to admit there is not going to be a perfect economic system, and hard to not try to find it and start rowing that direction.

Anonymous Urban II June 01, 2017 1:26 AM  

There is a reason Libertarians have been called Marxist of the Right.

OpenID dreadilkzee June 01, 2017 1:34 AM  

Question for VD:

For the non-wealthy, free-trade (or more precisely free movement of labor) is the destructive element because there are more "poor" people and their movement will change the culture. However what is it that actually allows them to move?

If the host they move to does not allow welfare to the non-citizen and does not grant citizenship easily then the worker has less incentive to move. Remove free medical care and ability to get on food stamps and most of the illegal Mexicans would leave.

Are there examples of the same problems you highlight in countries that have free-trade but have limited welfare?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 2:10 AM  

@45. Wellfare/medical care/food stamps/etc. are just amplifiers. Even after them, there are still incentives for untrusting and untrustworthy sorts to move in to better-off (high-trust) populations, such as the increased ease in finding suckers, suckers everywhere.

Anyone with a scam to run, a bribe to pay, a Ponzi to build, a racket to beat or usury to collect, all of these people want to set up shop wherever the getting is good.

Conversely, wherever the getting is good the people by and large are not prepared or immunized against them.

Similarly it is clearly in the best interests of the people who reside in and produce the locales where the getting is good to keep any and all outsiders the hell away from the sources or distribution of absolutely anything and everything they produce, all the way from staple food and materials up to education, economy, industry, philosophy and religion, let alone any form of power whatsoever.

Blogger Quilp June 01, 2017 2:30 AM  

A most interesting darkstream. Makes me want to drive a uhaul up Kevin Williamson's backside. My mind keeps going back to a blog post of last fall, when Vox was reviewing Francis Fukuyama's the origins of political order, and talked about Kinship rules, and how the West, because of things the Catholic church had done, abandoned traditional kinship rules, and became of more individual/nuclear family based civilization. I'm not suggesting any inconsistencies (except in my own thoughts perhaps) or anything like that..Its just that I grew up around somewhat extended families, found it to be enriching, safe, educational, a good life. ...And I remember those extended families keeping young people from moving away for work, opportunity, because of those ties. I don't recall a lot of regrets because of that. Of course that isn't a kinship society, but its also not packing up the uhaul when things start to look bleak and heading to the nearest metropolis. Don't strong families, united in blood, religion, often business..make for a strong nation as well?

OpenID dreadilkzee June 01, 2017 2:34 AM  

@BenjaminKraft, In theory I agree but even in your case you are needing a large enough contingent of people to affect cultural change. Hand full of scam arts are not going to impact culture as this already happens in places that do not give benefits to the outsider. In fact they already have "free trade" in the black market. In this case we are looking at large population shifts. Poor can only move if they have sufficient ability to succeed. If they have no safty net then this has a damping effect. How much of one I don't know.

South Korea is a country who traditionally had limited support for the outsider. However they are sadly changing that now. Part of the reason that low wage labor can survive being imported is because they have welfare systems that prop them up. This is part of my contention with VD's thesis. Without the welfare systems the labor's would not be able to bring their family and might not be able to afford to work in the host country. Higher paying jobs might allow for this (H1-B's in the Tech industry for example) but they would also not receive the full benefits they they are paying for. IE if Foreign works had to pay into social security but could never receive the benefit then they would be paying for our welfare.

(Note: I am not saying this is ideal, just wondering about welfare impact and if it would be a mitigating factor if it was denied to the foreigner).

Also note I'm not an advocate for free-global trade (both money and labor) but (free-local trade). However as noted by someone in the Darkstream I almost wish we didn't have that in the US as Californian's are doing much to ruin other states. Cali-fornication is a prime example of why Libertarian thought on free-trade is a culture killer.

If we had free-trade then there would be nothing to stop China from buying up California and taking it over with it's own people. Just as it is now being taken over by Mexicans.

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 2:38 AM  

Communism preserves nothing. Communism enslaves and kills. As a matter of fact I spent my childhood in communistis state so I'm speaking from experience. In communist state Vox would be one of first to exterminate and would preserve nothing of culture or nation. Only resistance to communism preserved anything in former communism coutries and only because communism collapsed before all was destroyed

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 2:55 AM  

Vox, in answer to your Darkstream question about why they want people to be rootless, family-less, homeless, etc.

For those of them that even realize why they want it, they want it for, I think, primarily four reasons:
#1: People in that condition are easily manipulated, used, abused, etc. Power is quickly and easily stratified in such a system.
#2: History is lost, cultures are lost, understanding is lost. Keep the people playing musical chairs so they can't focus on larger patterns. Protect the lies. This feeds into #1.
#3: You can't remake the world in your own image without crushing it into a homogeneous paste first. It takes mud to make bricks.
#4: Because Satan is pulling the same things on them, and intends to use them to pull those on us as well. Chase power far enough, and only destruction will remain, wearing your flayed skin and speaking in your voice.

Sin can be viewed as addictions. For them, their sin is lust for power, or possibly just greed, perhaps vaingloriously they believe that they have a better plan for everyone else's futures than anyone else (including God, if they believed in him) does.

They are addicted to power, or in all of the other cases, power is what can most easily attain for them that to which they are addicted. Thus they seek power for themselves and weakness, confusion and chaos for everyone else.

Blogger Matthew Funk June 01, 2017 2:57 AM  

Two sincere questions:

1) If the migration is intended to fill jobs, why are two-thirds of them processed without work visas and why is it continued when approximately 2% of those with work visas find employment in their first year (I was using Sweden 2016 in this example)? I understand that the globalists will keep selling the lie regardless of results, but why is it continued to be swallowed by the local population? Shouldn't the low employment rate of the migrants and their massive welfare drain debunk the argument that the migrants are providing labor or keeping social systems solvent? Their net economic loss is incredibly obvious to even the most unsophisticated of eyes. What keeps the lie working? (<< The real question, the rest were more rhetorical)

2) While it is obvious that communism is an excellent immigration repellent, doesn't it serve as an emigration incubator? Combined with the pricing problem, wouldn't this necessitate a population dwindle into oblivion, even if that population dwindle were homogenous in nature? Or are you operating under the (correct) assumption that the Communism will eventually be overthrown and the economic conditions will improve?

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 3:07 AM  

@48. dreadlikzee, You're assuming that cultural change requires a critical mass. It does not.

Cultures and peoples are like metals in that way. Introduce a bit of zinc into your steel and you've made an alloy, with different properties than either of the constituents. Any tiny quantity of addition will produce an alloy, if you differentiate finely enough. As the asiatics would say "A single drop raises the ocean."

The only way for an immigrant to not change the society he immigrates to would be for the society to mercilessly, brutally and absolutely annihilate every last thing about him and replace it all with things that come from that society. He cannot have any individuality, any culture or any history whatsoever that pertain to anything other than the country to which he has immigrated.

Obviously the above solution is "inhumane" and, more importantly, impossible with current understanding, not to mention inefficient and almost certainly abrogative of his original purpose in immigrating.

Actually, metals are not an accurate comparison. Perhaps after many, many generations of interbreeding metals would be accurate. In reality, first, second, third generation immigrants, all are more like trying to mix something non-metallic, like mud or clay with the iron that composes the core of the nation. Sure, it may seem like it fits fine and fills cracks when you first apply it, but when it starts to dry (or worse yet is baked/tempered) all of a sudden the clay is falling out, the cracks in the metal have been deepened by differing rates of thermal expansion/contraction, it all looks ugly as sin. Eventually the nation dies in pieces because the parts CANNOT fit together.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 3:09 AM  

As to whether the absence of wellfare and other "social insurance" systems would mitigate immigration, yes, it would (hence why I said they were amplifiers).

But would they eliminate immigration? No. They most likely wouldn't even reduce it to what those more optimistic than I would term "acceptable levels".

Blogger VD June 01, 2017 3:15 AM  

At heart Vox is just a coca-leaf addicted Indian alcoholic Communist looking to build his pyramid of skulls.

Every man needs a hobby.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 3:17 AM  

@49. Selat, you either didn't watch the darkstream, or you ignored it. The point was, "free market capitalism" destroys the people from which countries and nations arise and for which they exist. The USA is mortally wounded and bleeding out. Europe may survive, but it's questionable.

Russia though? The Russian people are still the Russian people and Russia will certainly survive for the foreseeable future (what little of it there is). The same goes for the other communist countries. China will survive, etc. Will it be pleasant? Probably not. It was still better than the "free market" (bullshit, humans will always manipulate markets) which near hereafter has seen the USA annihilated in body and deed as well as soul and word.

Better to live in the mud and cold than to die slowly and painfully from continually administered poison while sitting a formerly velvet-covered throne.

Blogger Koanic June 01, 2017 3:20 AM  

Actually, free trade in slaves and open immigration cancel each other out to a tidy profit!

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 3:30 AM  

@56. Koanic, under "free trade" if you don't own the slaves you are the slaves, to one degree or another. Really, everyone's a slave to whoever has managed to be standing at the top of the slippery pile of mud-coated corpses and starvelings at any given time.

You're not a slave? Well let's say you manufacture pencils. Hua Xin over in China has decided he will run a sweatshop with what amounts to slave labour, and he also desires to manufacture pencils.

Hua Xin's pencils are much cheaper than yours by a huge margin, because he's riding on the back of slave labor (or the back of workers abused in some other manner). Hua Xin's pencils are cheaper than you could ever hope to produce while paying your workers fairly. Hua Xin has cornered and monopolized the market on pencils, destroying your business by using the "unfair advantage" of slave labor.

Congratulations. You've been third-party enslaved by Hua Xin and any and all other immoral individuals like him who slowly and surely fenced in your entire nation's economy, because they thought they could play fair with cheaters and still win. You now owe Hua Xin more than you could ever hope to repay, and you have a thirteen year old daughter.

Play "FREE MARKET SCRAMBLE" again? Y/N_

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 3:35 AM  

Nice perspective you have: living in mud versus slow death. Is this all you can offer people, if yes then I'm sorry but I will not be driving with you

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 3:40 AM  

@58. Selat, if you can't see the difference between a doubly-obvious critical analogy and reality you have bigger problems than failing to understand what I'm saying, and you probably shouldn't be wasting your time posting here.

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 3:41 AM  

To those who say Russians are Russians, I say obly this that you have no idea what meant to be Russian before communism and what it is now. You leave in fairytale fantasy believing that.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 3:45 AM  

My point is that while all outcomes are crap for imperfect mortals, obviously living is preferable to dying, unless perhaps you're just that cravenly in the face of a little discomfort.

Because I know you'll make a false assumption, yes, I do believe in the spirit of God breathed into man and that it is immortal. The ultimate outcome is (potentially) not crap.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 3:47 AM  

@60. Selat, no one said it was the same. Stop projecting straw men out of your posterior, your brain will only hurt more from all the chafing.

Nevertheless, Russia will continue to exist as a single entity for the foreseeable future, if perhaps a more sober and pain-tempered one. The USA will not.

Blogger VD June 01, 2017 3:55 AM  

Nice perspective you have: living in mud versus slow death. Is this all you can offer people, if yes then I'm sorry but I will not be driving with you

Then leave. You're clearly too short for this ride.

To those who say Russians are Russians, I say obly this that you have no idea what meant to be Russian before communism and what it is now.

Obviously you don't understand human genetics. Just go away. You're too stupid for this discourse.

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 3:58 AM  

You said it: "The Russian people are still the Russian". Today's Russians share mostly only language with those from times before communism. You cannot understand it because you do not know what communism is and never lived in one. You talking about things not having slightest idea about. You were pooping in pamers when communism was forging soviet man-a man without any purouse outside obedience, no free will just motiobs through life.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 4:02 AM  

@64. The Russian people still have Russian blood. "Blood will tell."

Did communism hurt? Did it erase great swaths of Russian history and glory? Did it kill many, many people? Yes, yes and yes, but those still living still have untainted blood.

Blogger Bellguard June 01, 2017 4:08 AM  

This makes me wonder about the state of Communism had the Soviet Union won The Cold War.

Blogger JP June 01, 2017 4:12 AM  

YIH wrote:YIH said...:

Actually there is small-scale ''communism'', the Kibbutz colonies in what is now Israel (the first ones were founded before WWI). The three biggest problems with ''communism'' is that it requires most of the group to work in some capacity (farming, producing goods, homemaking, child-rearing, mutual defense such as security guards) and be capable of doing useful work. IOW, few or no ''free riders'' (such as small children, the infirm/elderly). The other problem is it doesn't 'scale'; at most 100-200 people, more than that and managing people becomes a problem, think of how a company is structured with departments specializing in various things. Another problem is trust, the collective has to have familial/mutual friendship/religious bonds across the group - ''lone wolf'' types need not apply.

''It doesn't scale'', and it requires nearly all of the ''commune'' to 'pull their own weight'.


We used to call that "being a family".

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 4:14 AM  

I think you are too stupid to understand what communism did to people that were leaving under it. Therefore you talk nonsense, I wish you could experience communism first had then we would something to talk about.

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 4:19 AM  

Geneticly you are right, but this is not only thing that counts. What is worth yohr pure bloodline if you are brainwashed and cannot make any use of your capacity.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 4:26 AM  

@69. What detriment is brainwashing when the person you're comparing to is brainwashed, genetically profaned, and living in a corpse-society?

Stop projecting and assuming people are stupid who don't agree with you.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 4:28 AM  

Brainwashing can eventually be broken. Your genes will never again be what they once were, and your genes determine much of how your brain functions, deeper than any brainwashing can ever reach.

Blogger Koanic June 01, 2017 4:39 AM  

Benjamin Kraft

I have more jokes than you have paragraphs of sperg. I'll trade you at 5:1 all day!

Anonymous Gurpgork June 01, 2017 4:44 AM  

10 minutes in, this is already the best Darkstream by far :-D

Anonymous Rezny June 01, 2017 5:04 AM  

@69
No man can just rise and shine after being battered and robbed, life is no Superman comics.
Even God had to chill for 3 days after being murdered, so you ask too much of us.

The Empire will rise in due course, it's the third time Russians were broken and subjugated for a hundred years or so to reappear later. Yet no Tatars nor Swedes nor Poles will ever be great again, while we were and will be. I wonder if (Soviet/International) Jews will.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 5:05 AM  

@72. Koanic, I have a tendency to do that while bored. If I didn't get tired eventually I'd probably run you out of jokes in a day or two.

I knew it was a joke, but when the mind engages... well.

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 5:09 AM  

Can you only think in binary mode? Cannot you come up with idea of retaining your genes without brainwashing? When do you stop brainwashing ever so no to taint your genes? Are we destined for perpetual tyranny of one sort or other? Is this all you can offer?

Anonymous Merry Englander June 01, 2017 5:12 AM  

I finally managed to listen. It went the way I thought it would and I enjoyed it.

Although, the yappy morons who cannot even listen before going on the attack are annoying. Especially as they were having arguments with an imaginary VD on a topic actual VD never broached.

Blogger Koanic June 01, 2017 5:36 AM  

5846 posts on Gab says I'm not about to run out of jokes.

Anonymous MDZ1985 June 01, 2017 5:38 AM  

Russia became communist 100 years ago. Pre-communist Russia is just as much a fairy tale to Selat as it is to me.

I've been lurking here for 2 years. Even before, I had had the thought that free trade required free labor movement, ultimately leading to no borders, to no nations. But I held on to the idea that free trade was "obviously" good. Reading Vox has really helped clarify my thinking. Mostly in the way of "start believing your lying eyes, because they aren't lying."

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta June 01, 2017 5:47 AM  

Nixon going to China was a bad thing.

Blogger Ivan Lenin June 01, 2017 5:48 AM  

Russians retained very little of their pre-1917 genes. We were a very mixed nation to begin with (Slav, Ugro-Finnic, Turkic, Mongolian). Northern and Southern Russians had very little in common, genetically. Now, things got much worse after 1917, because the bolsheviks first wiped out the aristocracy and the clergy, and then the peasantry. The city populations got mixed - Jews, Armenians, Georgians, who dominated the party, came to dominate the genes. Those of you who jerk off to Russia should visit a Russian village. Communism means negative selection and cross-breeding - guess what kind of people survive when anybody with brains or balls gets killed or imprisoned. Now, Chechens and similar peoples are drowning out what little is left of Russian blood. So, Russia is Russian in name and language only. The beauty queens that Vox likes to post are exceptions, not the rule. Again, if you don't believe me, visit a Russian village, or a city other that Moscow and St-Pete's, where all hot chicks come, to sell their bodies to visitors from the Caucasus.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 5:56 AM  

@76. Selat, a binary thinker is you. I'm not talking possibilities. You can't change the past. Russia IS breaking the compulsions. The USA IS genetically adulterated, mortally wounded and barely begun on breaking the compulsions.

You're not understanding. I'm not offering anything. I'm stating how things already are.

Blogger ZhukovG June 01, 2017 5:59 AM  

@Selat: No one is defending Communism! Master your emotions!

We are just observing that Globalism is worse than Communism. Globalism, like Communism, promises utopia while impoverishing all but the those at the top.

Globalism however, adds injury on injury by destroying the ethnic integrity of the countries it infests.

I need coffee.

Blogger SteelPalm June 01, 2017 6:32 AM  

@81

Heh, as someone born in Moskva, I wouldn't paint quite so bleak a picture (plenty of folks with brains or balls survived the communist years, although many didn't), but there is a lot of truth to what you say.

A Russian village is indeed an awful, bleak place that would quickly disabuse American Alt-Righters of their idealized visions of the nation.

And there have always been a slew of different ethnic groups present throughout the Russian Empire, with the situation becoming worse with the formation of the Soviet Union.

From the figures I've seen, only 80% of the nation is ethnically Russian by even the loosest definition, and 6-10% is Muslim.

For reference, France, which we all lament the demographics of, is 85% white European (some are immigrants) and 7-9% Muslim.

Granted, a white Russian is worth many times what a white Frenchman is, but the situation is far from idyllic.

Also, every major city, including Moskva, St. Petersburgh, and Volgograd, is rife with organized crime, random crime, prostitution, alcoholism, and suicide.

Anonymous Heywood June 01, 2017 6:36 AM  

META: First darkstream evah, not much for video normally. This does not move that needle - the insights could have been packed in a few sentences and digested in a few minutes, tops. The video format is inefficient enough as is, and the problem here is acerbated by the constant derailing from the peanut gallery.

Praise kek our lord of darkness still does this blog. Written is a very much superior medium for anything not visually related (read: hot chicks showing their hot bods off).

Thesis: Communism, with its vast proven economic inefficiency, protects nations from the ravages of the third-world low-wage hordes being imported en masse for private profit and social destruction of the host nations. This is why Poland is still Poland, Hungary is still Hungary, while the US, the UK and Sweden are all Neo-Somali basket cases.

Needs expansion on the reasons that non-white nations (Japan, China, South Korea) that have (more or less) embraced market capitalism as their main economic driver (certainly to the extent, say, Sweden has) remain ethno states. One obvious reason is that there exists no exterminationist agenda against yellow people, but that in itself suggests that the economic system is an insufficient, if perhaps necessary, component of white genocide, and that the efficiencies of a reasonably free market model can be combined with nationalism under the right political circumstances.

Anonymous Rocklea June 01, 2017 6:48 AM  

Stefan Molyneux interviewed Stephen Hsu here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn4LaowsGiA
The topic, Will Genius Be Genetically Engineered?
His bio:
Dr. Stephen Hsu was founder and CEO of SafeWeb, an information security startup acquired by Symantec and is the vice president for research and graduate studies at Michigan State University. Dr. Hsu serves as scientific adviser to BGI (formerly Beijing Genomics Institute), and as a member of its Cognitive Genomics Lab.
Stephen Hsu's Blog:
https://infoproc.blogspot.com

Short answer to the question, yes. This is the new arms race.

Relating this to the post, a HBD solution to a HBD problem.
@17 ZhukovG wrote:
"Of course an ebola epidemic will keep people away from your neighborhood too, while generally killing less people."

Consider the effect on people that settled the new world, or anywhere for that matter, and the effect on the native populations. Could distinct populations be made allergic, or even fatal to each other? I mean if you go to shake someones hand and break out in hives immediately, you know he's not of the people. If nothing else it will make a good SF novel.

Blogger Duke Norfolk June 01, 2017 7:00 AM  

Somebody might have covered this already, I haven't read all the comments yet.

It's interesting that many lefties advocate supporting the local economy ("buy local" "farmers markets", etc.) but for fallacious economic reasons, not cultural/social reasons.

This whole thing is just another case of Vox opening my eyes to a new perspective. Although, as with many others, I'm sure, I recognized these effects (social breakdown, cultural dilution, etc.) I rationalized them away, clinging to the free market ideology and the idea that increased wealth would trump all that and make the world a better place for everyone (etc. ad nauseum).

Blogger James Skinner June 01, 2017 7:06 AM  

What about South Korea and Japan. These countries are ethnically homogenous?

Blogger Cataline Sergius June 01, 2017 7:27 AM  

Welllll, there is an argument to be made in favor of Communism, says the last of the old front line Cold Warriors.

Communism inevitably results in poverty and poverty. And poverty is better for a people than material wealth.

No really it is. Take a good hard look at all the problems we are having in this country. They are all the result of general wealth. Women have no need for men because they are provided for by the government. They need men for sport-sex but that's it.

Millennial males are claiming adulthood starts at the age of twenty-seven.

Humans were designed for Want not Satiety.

Give a man everything he wants and most of the time he will fall to pieces. At best he will become fat and lazy. There is maybe one percent that won't.

Of course what we have right now is borrowed wealth rather than true wealth and that is eventually going to result in a level of poverty that will put post-Soviet Russia to absolute shame.

So yeah, America will be the best at that too. U-S-A! U-S-A!

Blogger Johnny June 01, 2017 7:27 AM  

Russia under the Tsar was an empire that had a great many ethnic groups in it. And for the most part it was held together by force. To quote somebody, not so much a nation as a prison of nations. For the sake of a greater degree of control the communists got into mixing these different groups through forced population movements. This produced the current unhappy situation, which is that the original Russian race is now scattered about in other ethnic groups, and the Russians have other races interior to their group. The difficulty is political instability because the country of Russia has no obvious natural borders based on the desires of the local populations.

Anonymous Merry Englander June 01, 2017 7:35 AM  

@james skinner (on phone, can't see comment number):

Japan and South Korea employ managed trade/protectionism designed to restrict many aspect of the free trade ideology, especially the parts involving freedom of movement.

Some of this is top-down and by design (government policy), some community led (cultural racism), and some just an accident of history (difficult language for foreigners to learn).

Anonymous MAF June 01, 2017 7:51 AM  

"America is not America"

That is in reference to Native Americans who allowed for mass immigration into their lands from Europe.

OpenID chronicrpg June 01, 2017 7:52 AM  

"Today's Russians share mostly only language with those from times before communism. You cannot understand it because you do not know what communism is and never lived in one."

Did you? Because it sure seems you're regurgiating low-quality Cold War propaganda, like this:

"You talking about things not having slightest idea about. You were pooping in pamers when communism was forging soviet man-a man without any purouse outside obedience, no free will just motiobs through life."

The actual damage done by communism to Russian people was literally 100% opposite from that (so was the image of "Socialist man declared as a goal, but that is another question). Communism mass produced ever-petulant, ever-cynical, ever-entitled, highly-materialistic, low-trust, poor work ethic people, who at the same time were on a constant quest for suckers or opportunities to get money for doing absolutely nothing, and expected the Nanny State to save them when they end up as suckers themselves.

OpenID chronicrpg June 01, 2017 7:58 AM  

"Russians retained very little of their pre-1917 genes. We were a very mixed nation to begin with (Slav, Ugro-Finnic, Turkic, Mongolian)."

Speak for yourself, Mr. Jew. Also select a better nick for trolling, Ivan (((Lenin))) makes it just a bit too transparent.

Blogger Cail Corishev June 01, 2017 8:04 AM  

I felt a great freedom when I realized that being in favor of unregulated lemonade stands doesn't require me to defend capitalism as an unalloyed good.

Anonymous John June 01, 2017 8:18 AM  

This discussion produces an endless loop in my mind.

The reason why people don't starve under communism dictatorships is because of massive black markets, ergo free markets. Loop.

@Cataline Sergius Free markets result in material wealth, which in turn destroys nations, but also produces aristocracies in terms of culture, high IQ and sophisticated child care.

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 8:28 AM  

Good point, unfortunately many of them will not get it because they see free markets as pure evil. This is something they have in common with communists.

I wish everyone praising advantages of communism spent some quality time in gulag and then still claim the same if you manage to survive.

Blogger ZhukovG June 01, 2017 8:45 AM  

@SteelPalm and others: I correspond with some folks who live in Russian Villages. I can assure you, they are not the miserable denizens of some nightmarish dystopia that some of you seem to believe.

That said, yes, the standard of living in Russia is generally lower than in the West. Seventy years of Communist incompetence plus being plundered by the West during the 90s will do that to you. It has however, improved markedly under President Putin.

As late as the 1970s I have stayed in homes, in the USA, where the toilet was an outhouse and the architectural style could be charitably described as 'Great Depression Revival'.

North Russian, South Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian genetics have not changed appreciably in centuries if not millennia. Most modern ethnic groups contain a mixture of various other ethnic groups so Russians and Western Slavs in general are not special in this regard.

Russia is 80% ethnic Russian. The largest minority ethnic group in the Russian Federation is Tatar at 5%. The ethnic Russian is neither extinct nor even slightly endangered.

For comparison imagine how things would be in the United States if we were 80% Anglo-Germanic and only 5% African-American.

SteelPalm, your description of major Russian cities was pretty accurate. But that also describes pretty much every major city that has ever existed anywhere. I would also point out that the death rates due to alcoholism and suicide have also been on the decline as the economy has improved and civic Christianity has increased.

Russia, however imperfect, is fine.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl June 01, 2017 8:50 AM  

The thing about communism is when left to its own economic devices, it will self-correct through the actions of people/community. Most people are natural tinkerers and fix what doesn't work. That's why as an economic model, communism needs, or is just a vehicle, for totalitarian weirdo dictators.

Something to also consider - the "free trade globalist" system could be termed Marxist Capitalism where the idea is to, as Vox says, destroy the traditional order and replace it with technocracy/Eastern-style despotism (the goal of Marx and Marxist academics).

This goes back to the Jacobins who did not start the French Revolution, but used it as a vehicle for their bizarre ideas of control (the Terror, Year Zero, etc.). The result of the Jacobin Terror and attempt at their own version of Utopia was Napoleonic France where the National Identity of FRENCH! became solidified in ways it wasn't before.

Blogger Nick S June 01, 2017 8:54 AM  

I've recently noticed moonbat economists talking about economic growth, in real terms, adjusted for demographics (which, apparently, makes things look more rosey than people realize). Adjusted for inflation, I'm familiar with and understand, I don't remember them talking about it in these terms of adjusted for demographics in the past. Is this some new sleight of hand or is it just something I hadn't noticed before?

Blogger ZhukovG June 01, 2017 8:56 AM  

@Selat: Did you watch the Darkstream?

No one is 'praising advantages of Communism', No one sees free markets as 'pure evil'.

You are either stupid, ignorant, or a liar.

Anonymous Selat June 01, 2017 9:01 AM  

Better read posts above because I see you are missing something.

Blogger Ivan Lenin June 01, 2017 9:06 AM  

@ZhukovG, I don't need to believe anything, my uncle lives in a Russian village, and I have visited him. I have my own lying eyes to believe. I live in Belarus, which is much whiter and more sober than Russia, but it still hasn't recovered from Communism. In a way it's fine, but the US, where I've lived for 20 years, is also fine by that standard. Just compare how many people want to move one way vs the other, if you want to get empirical.

Blogger Nick S June 01, 2017 9:12 AM  

I wish everyone praising advantages of communism spent some quality time in gulag and then still claim the same if you manage to survive.

Notice the thrust wasn't Communism vs. Capitalism. It was regarding a very specific theory of capitalism more in line with libertarian concepts.

The problem with all the various models is they assume uncorrupted good intentions on the part of the administrators of the system, but it's the administrators that you can be sure will eventually become corrupted. Normalizing deviant social behaviors only speeds up that process.

Marx's biggest blunder was insisting on the essentiality of atheism as a necessary aspect of his model. It is also one aspect that still makes it very appealing to certain segments of the population.

Blogger James Skinner June 01, 2017 9:15 AM  

I believe South Korea and Japan trade under WTO rules. So theoretically the USA could also Severly limit immigration while still trading goods and services under WTO rules.

Blogger Andre B June 01, 2017 9:20 AM  

Watching the darkstream now and it's hilarious. It's a very intriguing, interesting point that VD is making, very thought-provoking, but idiots don't wanna be provoked. They just don't want to even give a new idea consideration, even without accepting it. It's insane.

Great darkstream, just great.

OpenID chronicrpg June 01, 2017 9:29 AM  

@103 "I don't need to believe anything, my uncle lives in a Russian village, and I have visited him. I have my own lying eyes to believe. I live in Belarus, which is much whiter and more sober than Russia, but it still hasn't recovered from Communism."

Aha, looks like I've misjudged you, my bad and sorry, you're not a jew incensed about Caucasians hedging you out from some area of petty crime, but a bulbash, desperately trying to tell yourself that you have a nation, it has a reason to exist, your betrayal of Russia paid off (it didn't), and you are not, in fact, still living in USSR Lite to this very day (you do).

Anonymous Merry Englander June 01, 2017 9:40 AM  

@James Skinner, yes within or without the WTO framework the US could increase restrictions on free trade and this could include restrictions on immigration.

I believe many voted for Trump to get such restrictions. Let's see if it happens.

Anonymous Merry Englander June 01, 2017 9:46 AM  

"Just compare how many people want to move one way vs the other, if you want to get empirical."

Micro-level analysis doth not a macro point make.

Voxday is discussing the fate of whole nations over time, not which nation individuals like to live in.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 01, 2017 9:50 AM  

" 52. Blogger Benjamin Kraft June 01, 2017 3:07 AM
...
In reality, first, second, third generation immigrants, all are more like trying to mix something non-metallic, like mud or clay with the iron that composes the core of the nation. Sure, it may seem like it fits fine and fills cracks when you first apply it, but when it starts to dry (or worse yet is baked/tempered) all of a sudden the clay is falling out, the cracks in the metal have been deepened by differing rates of thermal expansion/contraction, it all looks ugly as sin. Eventually the nation dies in pieces because the parts CANNOT fit together."



Daniel chapter 2 (KJV)
"...
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, for as much as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

..."

Blogger wreckage June 01, 2017 10:06 AM  

@81 Romanticization of Russia's screw-ups doesn't last long in the light of.... well, Russia's screw-ups. Its easy to come up with a pattern-matched "big picture" view of how Communism done good, but it's worthless if the pattern-matched generality fails to account for the actual facts.

Communism did the exact opposite, in every respect, from the stated rational policies of the alt-right. If alt-right is right, Libertarianism, which only contradicts it on half the points, should work better than Communism, which violently overturns it on all points.

Forced migration and immigration, the dissolution of ethnic and cultural boundaries, economic imperialism, foreign interventionism, the promotion of women in military roles and the denigration of motherhood and family life, the suppression of capable men in favour of gammas, suppression of Christianity, insistence on equality enforced with murder, not just Codes of Speech... these are all features of Communism.

Where do you think the SJWs got their ideas? Their policies? Their funding? The KGB, fostering international Communism.

If Vox is right about Christianity, the family, masculinity, nationality, borders, equality, even the fatal weakness of libertarian border/immigration policy, then Communism is worse than the West, because rather than being a disputed or denied feature, these were all enforced at gunpoint across the entire imperialistic expanse of Communism.

And, by and large, they have been insinuated into the West by Communists.

A macro point that violates the necessary conditions entailed by a model either is invalid itself, or invalidates the model.

If the alt-right is right about anything, Communism is not, and vice-versa. It can't get any simpler.

Blogger Ivan Lenin June 01, 2017 10:34 AM  

@107
Aha, looks like I've misjudged you
You're still misjudging, you annoying little pidaras. My family came to Belarus from Russia during WWII, I don't care for Belarusian nationalism, and have nothing against Russians - except clueless trolls who are desperate for attention.

Blogger pnq8787 June 01, 2017 10:38 AM  

Vox, is there any chance you could do a Darkstream on how we should position ourselves with our money? Should we be stay in cash or buy silver? I guess this goes to are we headed for an inflation or deflationary crash? I got out of the market to cash for fear of a crash but which hasn't materialized but I look at how high it is now and don't want to get back in because it seems really high. What do you think would be a good way to position yourself to preserve wealth in the coming years? I say this knowing that you aren't an investment advice guy but still it would be good to get a high IQ opinion on what's up.

Blogger Nick S June 01, 2017 10:43 AM  

Voxday is discussing the fate of whole nations over time, not which nation individuals like to live in.

Sort of, but you can bet that anytime Vox talks about free trade he expects the listener or reader to understand that that entails the free movement of labor which directly affects which nations people like to live in because people like to live in nations where they can make a living.

Blogger Annie DiPiombo June 01, 2017 11:27 AM  

The two things that impress me most about VD are his theory of gamma, which is brilliant and original and most importantly, useful; and his ability to let go of libertarian economic dogma in pursuit of truth.

"All that is solid melts into air". Nick Land is the spokesperson of unlimited capitalism, and I do not want to live in his reality.

Give me Capitalism In One Country with all due respects to Uncle Joe, and we can do the 1880s and 90s over again, amongst ourselves.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) June 01, 2017 11:33 AM  

Vox, is there any chance you could do a Darkstream on how we should position ourselves with our money? Should we be stay in cash or buy silver? I guess this goes to are we headed for an inflation or deflationary crash? I got out of the market to cash for fear of a crash but which hasn't materialized but I look at how high it is now and don't want to get back in because it seems really high. What do you think would be a good way to position yourself to preserve wealth in the coming years? I say this knowing that you aren't an investment advice guy but still it would be good to get a high IQ opinion on what's up.

That depends on your risk tolerance, time horizon, tax situation, and a dozen other factors.

Blogger Vikki Wilson June 01, 2017 11:56 AM  

When Trump leaves office there will still be a Putin and a group of leaders of the peoples of eastern Europe.

Only they have the self confidence to stand at present. Obviously, their history of subjugation by communism and Islam is a major force here.

But their Christian faith does indeed seem a major factor in their cultural vitality. They can truly be called "Christendom".

Anonymous Pony1 June 01, 2017 11:57 AM  

Vox is one of the people who influenced me and lead me toward libertarianism as a younger man. Now he grabs my beautiful porcelain idol of free markets and takes a sledge hammer to it.

Holy Fuck, they don't call him the Supreme Dark Lord for nothing.

Anonymous Rezny June 01, 2017 12:00 PM  

@103
A pig will find the dirt it wants.
That's coming from a Belarusian. The villages are much better than under Soviet rule, my village ancestors are my witnesses.
Have you ever thought why there are hundreds of abandoned villages in Western Europe? Or why the USA have more poor people than, for example, Ukraine has people at all?

Don't fall under the negative memes of foreigners, you'll turn into a hohol in a week. And insulting random brothers in the internets didn't help hohols save their ransacked shithole, leave make-believe for children and fools.

Anonymous Paradox June 01, 2017 12:20 PM  

Franco's "fascist" Spain preserved a homogeneous nation. A lot better option than communism. This is what the alt-right is about, finding what Aleksandr Dugin calls the Fourth Political Theory.

Anonymous Gen. Kong June 01, 2017 12:43 PM  

Bellguard wrote:
This makes me wonder about the state of Communism had the Soviet Union won The Cold War.

The thing most Americans don't realize about communism is that by 1940, the quasi-nationalists led by the Georgian "Stalin", had won in Russia (and therefore in most of the communist world). The globalist faction, whose poster boy was "Trotsky" (real name Levon Bornstein) largely migrated to the west, where they found a welcome home in places like Columbia University (Hymietown, USA). The globalist faction of communism - which initially dominated the movement - had been financially supported from the outset by the vampire-squids (Rockefellers, Warburgs, et al) from before the first world war. By end of WW II, the vampire-squids realized that their best path to a one-world system was through the "free-market" casino and counterfeiting ATM (owned by them), plus the destructive power of media (owned by them), academia (owned by them) - by which means the strategy of Gramsci would be married to (((Frankfurt Schul))) to destroy the western nations from within.

They wanted to bring Russia into their network in the early 1990s - hence the looting by Larry Summers and his fellow junketeers as "bizniss advisors" - but their looting ended up backfiring there, which resulted in Putin, another of their many "literally Hitlers".

Blogger Vikki Wilson June 01, 2017 12:45 PM  

That was indeed a very funny DarkStream.

Blogger Nick S June 01, 2017 1:12 PM  

@121

B-b-b-b-b-but CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!

We have to stop allowing the leftists to conscript language and ruin it. Conspiracies are perfectly normal and common throughout history. It's only within the last 60-70 years that it was allowed to become an epithet to ascribe irrational thinking.

Anonymous MattnOKC June 01, 2017 2:01 PM  

Please turn off the comments. No one wants to listen to you berate idiots.

OpenID doktorjeep June 01, 2017 2:27 PM  

Free markets don't really help nationalism. This is what I take from it.

Blogger rcocean June 01, 2017 4:16 PM  

Haha, very funny. There's nothing more annoying then some Mid-wit spouting Ayn Rand Propaganda or something he learned in Econ 101. As would all the libertarian-Utopians quit with the Bullshit about how "free trade/open borders/the free market" would work if only we (fill in blank). No, we're not going to get rid of the welfare state. When we do, bring up that argument. Or any of your other absurd hypotheticals.

Blogger rcocean June 01, 2017 4:19 PM  

It reminds me of the Economist's "if we assume X then..." to which I reply "when X = reality" give me a call.

Blogger rcocean June 01, 2017 4:21 PM  

The Japanese didn't communism to keep them from globalism. If a society is homogeneous and patriotic enough it will OK.

Blogger Dwain Dibley June 01, 2017 6:01 PM  

Capitalism is nothing more than rebranded and repurposed mercantilism with a free enterprise facade. It is anti-economics, the capture and subjugation of markets for the purpose of extracting wealth. That things get produced in the process, is purely incidental. If everyone is taught to believe that they are a capitalist too, they would be less likely to attack the true capitalists for what they do.

Libertarianism of the Rothbard/Anarcho kind, is communism with a capitalist facade.

Blogger SteelPalm June 01, 2017 6:15 PM  

Yeah, I'm with Ivan Lenin here; chronicrpg sounds like one of those village-dwelling retards that we were describing above.

Did your grandmother get drunk again and piss and puke all over herself in public again, mraz?

@ZhukovG

We can quibble on the details, but the point is that Russia is suffering from the same ills many Americans believe it's magically resistant to, including multiculturalism and Muzzoids.

Yeah, Putin is at least a nationalist (if a very flawed one) and there have been modestly encouraging signs in the past few years, including the first time since 1990 that Russia hasn't lost population (although that's due to immigration, as birth rates continue to be well below replacement level), but it has plenty of problems and weaknesses nonetheless.

Americans don't realize how awesome their country is relative to all the others, even now.

Blogger wreckage June 01, 2017 11:27 PM  

@130 Putin has pulled out all stops to try and repair what's happened to Russia, and he's been aided and abetted because the top brass and other all see the same thing as he does.

As at right now, everything he has done has been to try, at the eleventh hour, to stop the extinction of the Russian people that Communism explicitly aimed for.

And I don't think he can succeed.

Blogger wreckage June 01, 2017 11:31 PM  

@115, Well, what Vox points to is the golden age of economic freedom. And personally I agree that the multinationals and corporates are irrelevant at best and a hindrance at worst.

Economic freedom for free men. If you're looking for someone to submit to Central Planning, sorry, you're looking for someone other than me.

Blogger JP June 02, 2017 12:49 AM  

This sounds suspiciously similar to "Hitler did nothing wrong.", just with a sickle rather than a swastika. Vox's words on that matter:
"And for those who try to claim that it's just rhetoric, yes, I am aware of its use in that capacity. The point is that the best and most effective rhetoric is rooted in truth, not ignorance and buffoonery."

Perhaps the metric is in turning peasants into corpses, in which case communism is objectively better.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 02, 2017 1:38 AM  

JP wrote:Perhaps the metric is in turning peasants into corpses, in which case communism is objectively better.
Did you actually listen to the darkstream?
The metric he is using is explicitly stated, "preservation of the nation".

Communism, in Europe, and in East Asia, has demonstrated that it is better at preserving, or perhaps worse at destroying the nation, than globalist Free Trade.

Stop reacting and start thinking.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 02, 2017 1:39 AM  

JP wrote:Perhaps the metric is in turning peasants into corpses, in which case communism is objectively better.
We seem to be doing a bang-up job of turning White working class men and veterans into corpses.

Blogger JP June 02, 2017 1:49 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Did you actually listen to the darkstream?

The metric he is using is explicitly stated, "preservation of the nation".

Communism, in Europe, and in East Asia, has demonstrated that it is better at preserving, or perhaps worse at destroying the nation, than globalist Free Trade.

Stop reacting and start thinking.


No, the audio is way too quiet to listen to it consistently. Darkstreams only work if I have nothing else going on.

Preservation of the nation is still not a great answer. Cuba's demographics changed dramatically, as has Venezuela's. Russia killed or drove off its brightest non-Jews, while China killed its least obedient. The genetic effects of all of this have yet to work themselves out.

Meanwhile, Japan and Korea are doing just fine. As has been pointed out elsewhere here, it's largely the cultural marxists who have been pushing the immigration policies in spite of the massive economic costs it imposes, which are precisely the opposite of what a free market would do. Free movement of peoples requires that it actually be economically feasible to move there in the first place.

Stop parroting and start thinking.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 02, 2017 3:00 AM  

If you want to call Japan's economy "Free Trade", you're gonna have to justify it. If I recall correctly, a half-dozen families control both the government and industry down to the local noodle shop.

You keep using top-down controlled economies, like Japan and Korea, and police states like Singapore, and Hong Kong to demonstrate your thesis about freedom in trade.

Blogger wreckage June 02, 2017 3:36 AM  

@137 Singapore might well be a police state, but its economy is substantially more free-trade than most. The simple fact here is that if you can't call those economies free trade, then you're right down there with the "no true communism has ever been tried" people.

If Vox wants to assert that if you have nations you don't have free trade, then that's fine. He then has to recognise that what he is critiquing does not exist, has never existed, and until the last few decades had never been promoted.

Earlier free trade proponents were accused of the "no true scotsman/ no true communism" argument, when they hadn't used it. Now they're being attacked on the basis that no successful economy is "TRUE free trade" because they have governments.

What you're arguing about is anarcho-capitalism; a market system with literally no state. Yes. It's a stupid and self-defeating idea. That's it.... the argument is done.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash June 02, 2017 3:46 AM  

Tendentious.

Blogger JP June 02, 2017 4:01 AM  

Is Switzerland top down? Do they have a massive demographic crisis? If anything, Poland and Switzerland are more free market than Britain, France, and Sweden, yet are having even less issues.

Also, the US and UK were both much more free market last century than this one, yet had far fewer problems with immigration. Britain essentially had no immigration until the socialists took power after WWII, despite having a globe-spanning empire since the 1700s. If this argument were true, surely a more communist-leaning government would bring in less immigrants, not more, right?

Immigration is not being driven by economics, it is a weapon being used by the power hungry. Its pushers share many close links to the communist movement, and (rarely) use free-trade rhetoric for marketing purposes only.

Blogger wreckage June 02, 2017 4:33 AM  

The late 1800's that Vox refers to as a golden age of economics was not especially globally-oriented but, if you suggested turning back time to about that era you'd be going further towards Libertarian goals than most Libertarians themselves can stomach.

I'd be with you all the way. Post-Modern economics is a farce.

Blogger raptor June 06, 2017 1:18 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger raptor June 06, 2017 1:20 AM  

The Architecture of Complexity Herbert A. Simon

NEARLY DECOMPOSABLE SYSTEMS ...... We have seen that hierarchies have the prop- erty of near decomposability. Intracomponent linkages are generally stronger than intercompo- nent linkages......

http://ecoplexity.org/files/uploads/Simon.pdf

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