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Tuesday, May 23, 2017

Mailvox: Breivik: saint or monster?

A Norwegian asks about St. Breivik:
What I still not have clear for me, is your standing concerning AB Breivik, and that actually troubles me somehow. I am self a Norwegian, I live in Oslo, and what happened 22/7/11 made a deep and difficult impression on my mind. Breivik shot down in cold blood 69 people on that island, and the majority of the victims were  teenagers (children, I could say), which «guilt» was to be an offspring of a member of the social democrat party (Arbeiderpartiet). I have indirectly heard an eyewitness reporting about a child scared to death, and with blood pouring from a wound in the throat while slowly dying.

For me, Breivik doesn’t represent any positive and decent quality, and he neither represent any legitimate way of doing resistance against a fallen political class and elite. Maybe I have misunderstood, but if you somehow make a hero out of Breivik, that makes it so difficult for me to do what I much would like to do: to make you one of several good teachers in my life.

Somehow I can look at Breivik (and other terrorists) as (almost impersonal) expressions of tidal waves in our history. But simultaneously, I can do nothing else than look at their actual actions as utterly horrific. As I see it (and feel it), no one devout to God would never ever could have done what Breivik did, and no one would neither could defend his actions.
First, let me say that I have family members who are a) devout Christians, b) good men, and c) are responsible for killing considerably more people than Anders Breivik. I also have a number of friends whose confirmed kills are in double-digits. Nor am I at all persuaded by the notion that the God who loved David, who slew "his ten thousands", or the Jesus who praised the faith of the Roman centurion, is anywhere nearly as appalled by war as most men would like to believe.

From a philosophical perspective, I tend to regard the Norwegians, and the "Norwegians", killed by Breivik as having been more culpable on average than the average Japanese, Korean, or Chinese infantryman were. And don't forget, the Viet Cong were no more professional soldiers than were the Quisling Youth on Utoya, and most of them were even younger.

Breivik did not target innocents. He didn't attack teenagers at a pop concert or families enjoying a night out on a public promenade. He struck a highly effective blow against the political machine that is still actively engaged in attacking his people and attempting to eradicate them. If you don't believe violence is a legitimate way of resisting invasion, if you don't think that making war on those making war on you is permissible, that's your prerogative, but your opinion is both ahistorical and irrelevant.

The fact is that Anders Breivik not only gave up his freedom to strike back at the quislings who are actively seeking to destroy your nation and your people, but he did so alone, and in the full knowledge that he would be hated for it by many of the very people he sought to save.

You may recall that someone once said something about the quality of the love that such a self-sacrifice requires. Can you honestly say that it was nothing but simple hatred that inspired him?

Of course, those who are not religious cannot fathom that kind of love, which is why they simply deem him mad, and a monster, and try to avoid thinking about the future. I don't expect you to simply accept my perspective, but it might give you some food for further thought. While he did a terrible thing, it is far more terrible that he was put into a position where he felt the need to do it in the first place. Focus your anger, and your disgust, for those who knowingly created the untenable situation.

In any event, my expectation is that if the West, and Norway, survive the ongoing clash of civilizations, Breivik will be considered its first hero. And if it does not, well, then Breivik will be regarded in much the same way that Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and P.G.T. Beauregard are presently regarded in New Orleans, as an evil monster who was "on the wrong side of humanity."

And just to be clear for the excessively slow, although I am not a Catholic, I am aware that Mr. Breivik has not died, been beatified, or canonized. Nor do I believe in praying to intercessors.


UPDATE: It is clear to me that a few readers here simply do not understand what war is. I direct your attention to Clausewitz and ask you this: was Breivik practicing "politics by other means" or not?

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374 Comments:

1 – 200 of 374 Newer› Newest»
Blogger S1AL May 23, 2017 11:57 AM  

The disconnect that I see is that Breivik didn't attack any responsible party. He didn't go after the politicians or activists... he went after those they were using. This wasn't a war, or an attack on infrastructure, it was just a slaughter. At best, that makes his actions misguided.

And even if you believe it was all justified, his actions most likely set back actual growing nationalism in Norway by a decade. From the perspective of 4th gen warfare that you always discuss, he lost.

Anonymous the woodsman May 23, 2017 11:58 AM  

The people who are working on "diversifying" all White countries and only White countries are genocidal maniacs. The knowingly want to eliminate White babies from the face of the earth. They and their families are fair game. They are evil. They will pay for their treachery. Breivik is a hero.

Blogger Tom Kratman May 23, 2017 11:58 AM  

Any evidence of that?

Blogger Ivan Lenin May 23, 2017 12:00 PM  

He struck a highly effective blow against the political machine
What's effective about it?

Blogger James May 23, 2017 12:01 PM  

"Can you honestly say that it was nothing but simple hatred that inspired him?"

And yet, every time we have an Islamic terrorist attack, these same non-thinkers will immediately go "don't give in to Islamophobia" mode. I have an idea. Why don't we refer to those that rave mindlessly about Islamophobia as Islamophobiaphobists? Whenever they posture with "candlelight vigils", we can denigrate them as Islamophobiaphobists since they obviously have an irrational fear of those that demonstrate Islamophobia.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 23, 2017 12:02 PM  

The skew in a cuck's mind to the belief in the benevolent nature of man is the root of his altruism, and his greatest weakness. Belief that all races and cultures must want the same thing is a real obstacle, and I don't know what process would be most efficient to crush it, other than seeing the endless parade of blood and death being visited upon them.

I'd rather not have to go down that route.

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 12:03 PM  

The disconnect that I see is that Breivik didn't attack any responsible party. He didn't go after the politicians or activists... he went after those they were using.

He did go after the politicians and activists. He went after the larval ones. It wasn't a Boy Scout camp, it was the equivalent of a Young Republicans, or if you prefer, Hitler Youth.

His actions most likely set back actual growing nationalism in Norway by a decade.

That's what everyone said when it happened. I said the opposite was true and I was right. Note that Norway is not having the same level of trouble as Sweden and Germany are.

What none of you seem to grasp is that the West is already at war with expansionist Islam. Your leaders lied to you when they said it was possible to "fight them over there". More people are dying every year than died in the Cold War.

Blogger Wanderer May 23, 2017 12:04 PM  

Breivik would be more of a hero if he ran around torching "refugee" centers and mosques instead. Killing stupid leftist teenage girls who are brainwashed by state progpaganda was a useless move at best imo.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 23, 2017 12:05 PM  

If you would truly defeat your enemy, do war upon his women and children.


If you don't have the balls to do that, you doom all combatants to an endless slaughter without peace.

Blogger tuberman May 23, 2017 12:06 PM  

This camp was a training ground for the next group of anti-Nationalist political elites, so these "teens" were the Globalist's "Hitler Youth."

Blogger Tom Kratman May 23, 2017 12:08 PM  

@4

The modern western left, posturing in their threadbare shawls of humanitarianism and concern, are just amoral familists. They're a rising, hereditary proto-aristocracy. They bequeath their ill-gotten wealth and positions to each other's children, favor for favor, because those are all they care about and all they trust. By offing their heirs, Breivik cut off the supply and left them without a bridge to the future. I understand, from sources I trust, that even now, already, the Norwegian left is feeling the pinch, that they cannot replace what they've lost.

_That_ is an effective attack.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2017 12:08 PM  

Wanderer wrote:Killing stupid leftist teenage girls who are brainwashed by state progpaganda was a useless move at best imo.
Because you are incapable of thinking in generational terms.

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 12:09 PM  

What's effective about it?

Ask LtCol Kratman.

Also, the party's support dropped from 35.4% in 2009 to 30.8% in 2013. It lost 9 seats in the Norwegian parliament. So, you are obviously opining in ignorance.

Blogger Euphoric Anger May 23, 2017 12:09 PM  

lol, Vox went full fash

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 12:10 PM  

Breivik would be more of a hero if he ran around torching "refugee" centers and mosques instead.

That's probably true. But then, most people are incapable of understanding strategy. Look, you can argue about whether what Breivik did was right or not. But you cannot reasonably argue that his murderous actions were not effective.

Blogger Tom Kratman May 23, 2017 12:10 PM  

@8

That's because you don't really understand the problem.

I can sympathize with those appalled by Breivik and his attack. But it's very hard to sympathize with the wishful thinking idiocy that doesn't see how effective it was.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 23, 2017 12:11 PM  

@14 Rather be fash than cuck.

Blogger tuberman May 23, 2017 12:11 PM  

10. tuberman

Oops, I didn't see that VD beat me to this.

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 12:12 PM  

lol, Vox went full fash

Not in the slightest. I have no sympathy for National Socialism or Fascism. I have no sympathy for Communism either.

And yet I recognize that all three, as appalling, and appallingly stupid, as they are, are still to be preferred to globalism, multiculturalism, and feminism.

Blogger tuberman May 23, 2017 12:13 PM  

Strategy, it's simple, the Globlist elites need to be taken down first.

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener May 23, 2017 12:15 PM  

Breivik's actions were horrific, but not nearly as horrific as the slow genocide of a native people.

Anonymous SidVic May 23, 2017 12:17 PM  

Don't want to get labeled a concern troll... But unsure whether i buy into this saint Breivik business. Guy appears crazy as a shit-house mouse.

Blogger Rabbi B May 23, 2017 12:18 PM  

Blessed be G-d my Rock, Who trains my hands for battle and my fingers for war...it is He Who subdues peoples under me. (cf. Psalm 144)

War is necessary on account of perfidious foes, most especially those with whom no dependable covenant of peace is even remotely possible, those whose insidious politics and tactics makes constant preparedness for war imperative. At least for the present.

We who understand that their word is duplicitous at best and their handshake is falsehood, get this.

Stretch forth Your hands from on high, rescue and deliver me out of many waters, from the tyranny of the sons of the stranger, whose mouth speaks deceit and whose right hand is a right hand of falsehood. (cf. Psalm 144)

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 23, 2017 12:20 PM  

@22 How many conspiracies and the people who broadcast them were called crazy in the past 20 years?

How many have now been proven correct? Crazy is an appellation people award to what they don't understand.

Or mentally ill people. I'll not deny that. But when dealing with "Other" motivated individuals one has to set aside the normal frame you're used to dealing with and see things with "crazy" eyes.

Blogger S1AL May 23, 2017 12:21 PM  

"That's what everyone said when it happened. I said the opposite was true and I was right. Note that Norway is not having the same level of trouble as Sweden and Germany are."

I always thought that was just a matter of numbers (thus Finland's general lack of problems).

But I may also simply have an issue with American vs. Norwegian optics. From here it looked like the supreme example of how to dissuade people from your side (a la McVeigh).

Blogger Rabbi B May 23, 2017 12:22 PM  

What none of you seem to grasp is that the West is already at war with expansionist Islam.

And the more Islam expands, the more unstable it becomes, and the only way they know how to ameliorate this instability is through more and more violence, be it internal or external.

Anonymous BBGKB May 23, 2017 12:22 PM  

100 years from now the Norse nations will either be 3rd world cesspools with no running water or have statues to Breivik in every town.The Copenhagen attack had 200 rounds fired with only one dead that was not the cartoonist target but , Anders Breivik required 121 shots to kill 77.

I also have a number of friends whose confirmed kills are in double-digits.

I don't have any more non Asian minority DR/Nurse friends

What's effective about it? Stopped nits from becoming lice. Had they grown up they would likely be protected from the moslems they profit off of.

I understand, from sources I trust, that even now, already, the Norwegian left is feeling the pinch, that they cannot replace what they've lost.

Oy vey can't you just use a turkey baster to get another kid so I don't have to touch her?

Blogger Darwinian Arminian May 23, 2017 12:24 PM  

In any event, my expectation is that if the West, and Norway, survive the ongoing clash of civilizations, Breivik will be considered its first hero. And if it does not, well, then Breivik will be regarded in much the same way that Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and P.G.T. Beauregard are presently regarded in New Orleans, as an evil monster who was "on the wrong side of humanity."

That last line is too optimistic; If the West loses the "clash of civilizations," then Norway's future residents will be telling bedtime stories to the children they had with their own siblings about how St. Breivik is tortured every night by demons in his residence on the lowest levels of Islamic hell.

Anonymous Mazianni May 23, 2017 12:25 PM  

So the murdered Norwegian kids were "politicians and activists". This strikes me as very much like ISIS calling 8-year-old Mancunians "crusaders".

Anonymous Ryan May 23, 2017 12:27 PM  

If anyone hasn't read Moldbug's take on Breivik it's interesting. It's a lot like Vox's, but more pessimistic.

http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2011/07/indisputable-humanity-of-anders-behring.html

"...There is a difference between right and left - and it's just not that the left is in and the right is out. The right stands for order and the left for chaos. Violence is essential to both - but certainly not the same kind of violence.

The left (hilariously still named the "Norwegian Workers' Party" - they should really update their name to match their clients) brought "A-Gjengen" and "B-Gjengen" to Oslo. And the right? There is no Norwegian right. Just Norwegian gangsters, a C-gang if you will. An ABB knows Oslo needs order, but all he can think to do about it is a spectacular gang massacre - basically a giant drive-by. In his heart he's still a tagger...

Can violence bring order to Oslo? Or to Baltimore? Nothing is more certain. Will it? Well, I hope so. I'm not too optimistic at present. Will it involve the mother of all drive-bys? It most certainly will not."

Anonymous Sam the Man May 23, 2017 12:27 PM  

I thank Tom Kratmann and Vox for coming in on this thread and explaining things. Please continue for those of us reading in shock.

I had thought the St.Breivik thing was kind of a joke or mirror held up to ridicule the left. I had no idea it was kind of serious.

The idea of killing young adults/teenagers as non-innocents had not occurred to me. It seems very wrong, but then again the patriarchs of old were so instructed at various times to do the same.

Something does not seem quite right in this synopsis, but I thank you both for posting and an reading.



Anonymous Meanwhile, in Muslimistan May 23, 2017 12:28 PM  

[b](The Manchester bomber) struck a highly effective blow against the political machine that is still actively engaged in attacking his people and attempting to eradicate them.[/b]

And NORAID went entirely towards widows and orphans.

Forget the speed of light, the only constant in the universe is self justification.

Blogger Euphoric Anger May 23, 2017 12:29 PM  

@19

I dont understand your resistance to fascism.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 23, 2017 12:29 PM  

S1AL he went after the generation in-training to be activists and traitorous politicians; that's literally what that camp is run for.

Anonymous BBGKB May 23, 2017 12:31 PM  

kids were "politicians and activists". This strikes me as very much like ISIS calling 8-year-old Mancunians "crusaders"

Leftists call 27yo liquor store robbers youths but when it comes to deciding who is too young to fuck its lower than anyone St Breivik killed.

Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.

OpenID paworldandtimes May 23, 2017 12:31 PM  

I've read convincing arguments that Tim's action in OKC effectively ended the Clinton administration's policy of mass-murdering American dissidents.

PA

Blogger Tom Kratman May 23, 2017 12:33 PM  

@36

One notes that, despite several excuses to do so, the Feds have generally refrained from any more mid-scale massacres or pre-emptive shooting of fully loaded "assault babies."

Blogger APL May 23, 2017 12:35 PM  

"Breivik will be regarded in much the same way that Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and P.G.T. Beauregard are presently regarded"

If we lose, no luminary of Western civilisation will be remembered at all.

That's my guess.

Ask the descendants of Roman Ephesus, for example.

Anonymous Baseball Savant May 23, 2017 12:35 PM  

the West is already at war with expansionist Islam. Your leaders lied to you when they said it was possible to "fight them over there". More people are dying every year than died in the Cold War.

THIS x1000. This is the biggest mystery I don't understand. People can't see this?

Blogger Lazarus May 23, 2017 12:35 PM  

The elites don't mind sacrificing OTHER people's children.

Anonymous BBGKB May 23, 2017 12:36 PM  

Tim's action in OKC effectively ended the Clinton administration's policy of mass-murdering American dissidents

The "NO MORE FREE WACOS" argument is why Holder pulled his people out of Bundy's ranch a few hours after an open letter to him stating that was released. Less kids killed in OKC than in Waco

Anonymous Baseball Savant May 23, 2017 12:36 PM  

The idea of killing young adults/teenagers as non-innocents had not occurred to me. It seems very wrong, but then again the patriarchs of old were so instructed at various times to do the same.

Demographics is destiny.

Blogger Tom Kratman May 23, 2017 12:37 PM  

@29

What you're missing, Maz, is _specificity_. Every or nearly every "kid" on the island was being groomed for "great things," which great things were generally going to be against Norway's interests. Probably none of those just killed in the bombing were ever going to crusade for anything that required getting up early or missing a bath.

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton May 23, 2017 12:37 PM  

"So the murdered Norwegian kids were "politicians and activists". This strikes me as very much like ISIS calling 8-year-old Mancunians "crusaders"."

It is like ISIS, and ISIS is winning precisely because they do it more than our side. While we sit around ascribing values to everything, they act and impose their will on us.

Does saying "that's bad!" change the effectiveness of an action or not? No, it doesn't.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 23, 2017 12:37 PM  

paworldandtimes wrote:I've read convincing arguments that Tim's action in OKC effectively ended the Clinton administration's policy of mass-murdering American dissidents.

PA


The rumors I have heard is that FeeBI officials got word that the OKC bombing settled debts and that in the future there would be "no more free Wacos".

The FeeBs did show quite a bit of restraint dealing with the Bundys, other than the LaVoy Finicum murder.

Blogger WATYF May 23, 2017 12:38 PM  

First, let me say that I have family members who are a) devout Christians, b) good men, and c) are responsible for killing considerably more people than Anders Breivik.

How many of them were unarmed non-combatants?

No one is arguing that killing people period is bad.

Nor am I at all persuaded by the notion that the God who loved David, who slew "his ten thousands", or the Jesus who praised the faith of the Roman centurion, is anywhere nearly as appalled by war as most men would like to believe.

Jesus praised the Centurion for his faith, not his warfare. There's no reason to think that approving of the former was in any way an endorsement of the latter.

And God was so super happy about David's war-making that He refused to let him build His temple.

Breivik did not target innocents.

Innocent of a crime worthy of execution? Yes.

If you don't believe violence is a legitimate way of resisting invasion

Violence against whom? Again, no one is arguing that you can't do anything to oppose such things.

The fact is that Anders Breivik not only gave up his freedom to strike back at the quislings who are actively seeking to destroy your nation and your people, but he did so alone, and in the full knowledge that he would be hated for it by many of the very people he sought to save. You may recall that someone once said something about the quality of the love that such a self-sacrifice requires. Can you honestly say that it was nothing but simple hatred that inspired him?

Damn, dude. I can only hope that this is rhetoric. This same argument could be made of every single lone-gunman spree killer (all of whom thought they were doing whatever they were doing for good reason). Jesus wasn't talking about being willing to accept consequences for killing a bunch of people when He spoke of "self-sacrificing love". That's a pretty severe perversion of His statement.

Of course, those who are not religious cannot fathom that kind of love

But those who are religious can fathom that kind of evil.

I don't contest the effectiveness of his actions, nor do I see a problem with using Breivik for rhetoric. I think it's effective to say, "Your position is so messed up that even this mass murderer looks better in comparison".

But it kinda takes the point out of the rhetoric if you then turn around and try to argue that he did nothing wrong.

WATYF

Blogger Rabbi B May 23, 2017 12:39 PM  

Bombing an abortion clinic or shooting up a Planned Parenthood office may not be your tactic of choice, but I do not shed too many tears when it happens.

It becomes an occupational hazard when you choose to operate on the side, either actively or passively, that is destroying a society from within.

When pushed far enough, there is no telling how many Breiviks are going to come out of the woodwork and start doing the job the elites should have been doing by more measured means when they had the chance. That window is shutting fast.

We are at war, but most are loathe to admit it

Anonymous BBGKB May 23, 2017 12:40 PM  

I also have a number of friends whose confirmed kills are in double-digits...I don't have any more non Asian minority DR/Nurse friends

Before anyone misconstrues that I obviously meant "I don't have any more non Asian minority DR/Nurse friends or I would be able to say the same"

Blogger dienw May 23, 2017 12:40 PM  

Breivik shot down in cold blood 69 people on that island, and the majority of the victims were teenagers (children, I could say), which «guilt» was to be an offspring of a member of the social democrat party (Arbeiderpartiet). I have indirectly heard an eyewitness reporting about a child scared to death, and with blood pouring from a wound in the throat while slowly dying.

The parents of those children and those children who escaped to grow up have no objection to a Moslem migrant slashing the throats of you, your wife, and your children; nor do they lay awake nights upset over the blood gushing from your throats, no, they approve of it.

Blogger Orthodox May 23, 2017 12:41 PM  

Breivik would be more of a hero if he ran around torching "refugee" centers and mosques instead.

Many of the people in those camps are innocent. They can be sent home, and won't cause much trouble as they leave if handled properly. Fighting the Muslims is exactly what the establishment wants because then they get two reactionary forces killing each other, and paint both as crazies. "See, this is why we must ban ALL religion!" It is you and him fight.

If you focus your attention on the establishment, the people who allow it to happen, there need not be a wider conflict with Islam. What Muslim is going to fight you if your first order of business is your own enemy countrymen? They will jump at the chance for a peaceful repatriation.

Anonymous Battlefrog May 23, 2017 12:42 PM  

I can't help but think all this Breivik stuff is Vox testing the limits of his antifragility.

From a coldly historical perspective, I can't say there isn't some validity to the argument. But it feels more like counterproductive rhetoric. I get that VD thinks it's highly effective rhetoric, but I can only see it as the Spencer style "look at me" type of effective.

Blogger Salt May 23, 2017 12:43 PM  

I cannot fathom how people cannot see what is in front of them. Islam, ostensibly the Religion of Peace, permits within itself that which is violently radical. At best there is a verbal condemnation by some Imam, who'd do as well to merely hold some candle lit vigil which is, to the radicals, tacit approval of the violent act, guarantying further horrendous acts. Wash, rinse, repeat. Where are the moderate Muslims holding their vigil for the slain?

There are no moderate Muslims.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable May 23, 2017 12:44 PM  

So the murdered Norwegian kids were "politicians and activists". This strikes me as very much like ISIS calling 8-year-old Mancunians "crusaders".

They weren't eight years old. They were 14 through 51, average age was 20, and they had already signed up to the wrong side of the fight. Sixty of the 69 victims were old enough to have been in the Hitler Youth or to have fought for some countries in WWII.

I too have difficulty with it morally. Strategically, it made a lot of sense.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 23, 2017 12:44 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:The idea of killing young adults/teenagers as non-innocents had not occurred to me. It seems very wrong, but then again the patriarchs of old were so instructed at various times to do the same.

You don't have to go back that far. The "teenager" is a modern creation.

For most of history a 15, 16, or 17 year old was called a man. Maybe not experienced and in need of training but fully expected to take on a man's responsibilities.

Blogger Sherwood family May 23, 2017 12:45 PM  

Why is anyone appalled at the death of Leftist children? These are the people who kill their own babies. The fact the some of them were killed later rather than earlier should not surprise anyone.

Blogger Tom Kratman May 23, 2017 12:45 PM  

@31

Well, they _were_ innocent, Sam. Those kids didn't, so far as we know, pick their parents or get born expressly to be propagandized into anti-patriotic actions. No, they were conscripted into it. And, like any other conscripts of a hostile power, in war...

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 12:46 PM  

Jesus praised the Centurion for his faith, not his warfare. There's no reason to think that approving of the former was in any way an endorsement of the latter.

Sure there is. Did he tell the centurion to go and make war no more? At the very least, he did not condemn his warfare.

Innocent of a crime worthy of execution? Yes.

I suggest you read up on the victims. Unless you think all politicians are intrinsically off-limits, of course, as the politicians would have us believe.

This same argument could be made of every single lone-gunman spree killer (all of whom thought they were doing whatever they were doing for good reason).

That's absolutely false. Breivik clearly believed he was acting on behalf of the Norwegian people.

But it kinda takes the point out of the rhetoric if you then turn around and try to argue that he did nothing wrong.

I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. I'm simply not sure that the rest of us are not doing even worse wrong by failing to resist what is clearly evil. I don't see any optimal choices here anymore.

Anonymous Crew May 23, 2017 12:46 PM  

Innocent of a crime worthy of execution? Yes.

When your immune system murders lots of virus particles or enormous numbers of bacteria do you consider yourself a mass murderer? They were innocent, after all.

Anonymous Looking Glass May 23, 2017 12:48 PM  

He attacked: https://infogalactic.com/info/Workers'_Youth_League_(Norway)

Who are the Youth Party to: https://infogalactic.com/info/Labour_Party_(Norway)

Who lost the 2013 election: https://infogalactic.com/info/Norwegian_parliamentary_election,_2013

Also, let's remember the lesson of the mid-2000s in Europe. Kill 1-2 "journalists" or "film makers" and they stop saying nasty things about you. This was the logical escalation of the environment that was created. Breivik also eliminated the majority of politicians in 20 years that would have been a part of the Labor Party. He cut the entire Center-Left of the Norwegian politics out by the roots.

You don't have to like something to understand it. Breivik shifted the entirety of country's path because there is real fear among the Pro-Suicide parties that it won't be a glorious, self-righteous suicide, but a hot bullet through the head from someone that has no plans to be a sacrifice to their false god.

It's also the battlespace to watch: when things get really Agro, it's open slaughter of the political class. At this point, everyone should understand that.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable May 23, 2017 12:49 PM  

I don't see any optimal choices here anymore.

This. Exactly. Sometimes you're put in a position where you're choosing between worse and worser. This is that.

Anonymous Crew May 23, 2017 12:49 PM  

@56: At the very least, those people are now on notice that there might be consequences for being conscripted into the business of destroying the people of the countries they happen to live in.

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 12:49 PM  

I can't help but think all this Breivik stuff is Vox testing the limits of his antifragility.

Then you don't understand me at all.

From a coldly historical perspective, I can't say there isn't some validity to the argument. But it feels more like counterproductive rhetoric. I get that VD thinks it's highly effective rhetoric, but I can only see it as the Spencer style "look at me" type of effective.

See above. I have very little interest in people looking at me. Do you see me doing interviews with the Atlantic and the New York Times talking about this? That's simply absurd.

I suspect that, like most people, you simply cannot get your head around the reality of the situation in which you find yourself because it is too terrifying to you. These are very, very dreadful times, and there are no real prospects for improvement in the near future.

Anonymous Gen. Kong May 23, 2017 12:52 PM  

Innocent of a crime worthy of execution? Yes.

Treason is traditionally considered a crime worthy of execution. Those killed by Breivik are more guilty of treason than Vikdun Quisling - whose very name has become a synonym for 'treasonous sellout' - ever was. Among other things, they advocate the genocide of their own people, something Quisling at least stated he was trying to avoid. In short, they had it coming. Quisling, executed by firing-squad after the war, deserved it less than those on the island did.

Anonymous Looking Glass May 23, 2017 12:53 PM  

@46 WATYF

"No one is arguing that killing people period is bad."

I see you've never met a Leftist before. You might want to venture out into the world. They don't want anyone killed, unless they're White or/and Christian.

Blogger S1AL May 23, 2017 12:54 PM  

"I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. I'm simply not sure that the rest of us are not doing even worse wrong by failing to resist what is clearly evil. I don't see any optimal choices here anymore."

I keep telling people on the left that they have no idea how bad it's going to get at this rate. On days like today, I do find myself having a little trouble not rolling my eyes at concerns about "backlash". They have no idea.

Blogger Solaire Of Astora May 23, 2017 12:55 PM  

Breivik didn't just not do something wrong he did a moral good. Dead leftists is almost always good.

Blogger Ivan Lenin May 23, 2017 12:55 PM  

So, you are obviously opining in ignorance.
I didn't opine - I asked a question, and appreciate the answers from you and others in the thread.

Blogger ZhukovG May 23, 2017 12:55 PM  

What Anders Breivik did was evil and he should be punished for it.

However, what the elite do to Western Nations is a greater evil. The elite, weaponizing their own 'children'(the youngest victim was 14) is a monstrous evil. The latter is like putting munitions on a passenger liner in order to sneak it into a war zone.

Some times men must make hard choices and accept the consequences in the small hope that history may better understand their actions.

Anonymous Crew May 23, 2017 12:55 PM  

Why is anyone appalled at the death of Leftist children? These are the people who kill their own babies. The fact the some of them were killed later rather than earlier should not surprise anyone.

Yes, just think of them as late-term abortions.

Blogger Katechon May 23, 2017 12:57 PM  

He did go after the politicians and activists. He went after the larval ones.


Is there actually such thing as a larval politician / activist?

Wouldn't it be denying the agentivity of the kids, their capacity to take decisions when they'll reach maturity, adulthood?

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 23, 2017 12:57 PM  

What Anders Breivik did was evil and he should be punished for it.

However, what the elite do to Western Nations is a greater evil. The elite, weaponizing their own 'children'(the youngest victim was 14) is a monstrous evil. The latter is like putting munitions on a passenger liner in order to sneak it into a war zone.


There is lots of evil to go around. Evil is not a zero sum game.

Blogger Chris Mallory May 23, 2017 1:00 PM  

Katechon wrote:Wouldn't it be denying the agentivity of the kids, their capacity to take decisions when they'll reach maturity, adulthood?

They were at a political training camp and if you read the quotes about the dead on some of the news sites, a large number are called "activists" of one flavor or another.

Anonymous Cuckleberry Finn May 23, 2017 1:00 PM  

These are dreadful times indeed when thoughtful men seek excuses for proactive murder.

Blogger horsewithnonick May 23, 2017 1:01 PM  

I prefer the more succinct 'coward'.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable May 23, 2017 1:01 PM  

I keep telling people on the left that they have no idea how bad it's going to get at this rate. On days like today, I do find myself having a little trouble not rolling my eyes at concerns about "backlash". They have no idea.

They have the idea the Right will roll over and play dead because that's what the cucks have done for them since 1965. They don't yet have a clue what they're dealing with.

Blogger Euphoric Anger May 23, 2017 1:01 PM  

Lol, So much counter signalling!

Breivik was a hero just like Dylan Roof.

Blogger Elizabeth May 23, 2017 1:03 PM  

Breivik didn't have a helicopter to toss leftie traitors out of.

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 1:04 PM  

Is there actually such thing as a larval politician / activist?

20-year-old activists who are being groomed for office qualify, yes. One victim had already been identified as a future prime minister.

Some of you may not realize that's how it often works in political circles. When I was 19, a very high-ranking GOP player whose name many would still recognize talked to me about the possibility of being prepped to run for Congress. I said "oh hell no" and that was that. These people don't magically appear at 30, or 35, and just decide "hey, I should try politics".

Anonymous Mazianni May 23, 2017 1:05 PM  

@43 What you're missing, Maz, is _specificity_. Every or nearly every "kid" on the island was being groomed for "great things," which great things were generally going to be against Norway's interests.

Doing things "against Norway's interests" is in almost all cases not a capital crime. And even more so given that those "things" were only going to be done at some point, maybe, in the future.

And anyway, who is to say whether some of those kids might have seen the light and eventually joined the other side? They'd have had the benefit of an insider's upbringing. Now we'll never know.

Whether or not Breivik was effective, I don't know. But some kind of saint or moral exemplar? That's an awful lot to swallow.

@35 Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence...

Why should we behave like barbarians just because others do? Is this really the message you gather from Christianity? "Love your neighbour as yourself... until things really go to shit, in which case just kill his kids."

Blogger ZhukovG May 23, 2017 1:05 PM  

@Josh(the gayest thing here): Yes, there's more than enough for everyone to go back for seconds.

But as Southerners we must be painfully aware that it is the victor that writes the history.

Breivik will get his statues and someday Southerners will put their's back up.

Deo Vindice

Anonymous Looking Glass May 23, 2017 1:05 PM  

@63 Gen. Kong

I had forgotten that Quisling was Norwegian. Yup, he killed a bunch of quislings.

Blogger James Dixon May 23, 2017 1:06 PM  

> I don't see any optimal choices here anymore.

The optimal choices when you're at war are those that preserve as many of your people as possible while inflicting the maximum damage possible on the enemy. Discerning those may be difficult.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2017 1:08 PM  

Mazianni wrote:So the murdered Norwegian kids were "politicians and activists". This strikes me as very much like ISIS calling 8-year-old Mancunians "crusaders".
Does it help if you imagine them as 17-year-old SS recruits?

Blogger resborzage May 23, 2017 1:08 PM  

Excellent essay, and I fully agree.

Blogger tz May 23, 2017 1:09 PM  

Breivik was merely early.
That is the whole point of the God Emperor here and Brexit.
The Swamp will be drained, it could have been gentle under Ron Paul. The less than easy way will be under Trump. If something bad happens, there will be a thousand Breiviks throwing dynamite into the swamp and salting it once it dries out.

Meanwhile I have to vent about the cuckfederates who from his first hints at his cabinet at the beginning of the transition, to now going to the wailing wall (what promised policy did that break) keep saying "Trump Cucked" "Betrayal!" "I'm off the Trump Train!". They are worse than Rachel Maddow and Don Lemon. Am I concerned Trump may waver? Yes, but then the right thing is to come up with Build the Wall, Lock Her Up, Drain the Swamp, Repeal Obamacare rallies for June 17th (2yr+1day, Saturday) where we can show Trump that he is supported in his policies. Instead it is a series of vitriolic attacks, not directed at the swamp, which Trump still has to swim in while trying to drain it, but Trump himself.

Half the country is against Trump, and that would be hard enough to fight, but he also has to worry about his right flank that seems to be turning and running and more worried about statues in New Orleans than about the wall or immigration. Even WITH all the opposition - worse than any president in living memory - he accomplished more in his first months in office and has barely slowed down. He's going 500 MPH - but the complaint is he didn't break the sound barrier?

Trump is a Civic Nationalist and will continue (like the alt-Lite) until it proves impossible. He didn't promise to restore Jim Crow or the Confederacy (though Harvard apparently has brought back Jim Crow). He is non-ideological, and that is what may be the problem. Some people still prefer cuckservatives who virtue signal and say weekly how they are against immigration, abortion, gay marriage, single-payer, but either don't do anything or fund and implement those very things. Trump doesn't virtue signal the right's peacock issues, he has MAGA rallies.

Constructive criticism is to encourage Trump to build the wall now. Use the executive orders more. Have HHS gut Obamacare as much as possible (Phase 2 can be Phase 1). But why should Trump bother when he is fighting every front as hard as he can and just gets insulted because some promises are taking longer than 100 days to get done. If you aren't fighting alongside him and encouraging Trump and his promises, (and not Congress, Paul Ryno deserves the opprobrium for that non-repeal), at least don't fight against him or try to discourage him and his supporters. Be a Winston Churchill, not a Tokyo Rose.

Unless you are prepared to become Breivik, or surrender, you better support and backstop Trump. Because that will be the price we will have to pay if Trump fails. It may still come to Breivikism, but the illegals who didn't come here because of Trump wont have to be sent back.

Anonymous Bz May 23, 2017 1:12 PM  

Burning refugee centers is just striking at the limbs, or perhaps at the detachable tail. As I understand it, there were more than a hundred refugee centers burned in Sweden last year (or the year before that). Didn't change a thing. They're still playing Imagine on a loop.

That tactic is more like "Look at us! We're really angry and dangerous and you have to take us seriously and obey us! Or else we might get really mad!" But the problem is, our leftist masters are quite used to being those who can always escalate one step beyond and win the contest. Keep marching around being very angry, see if they care. Maybe a somalian will cut your head off if you act out, who knows. Maybe you'll get stabbed in the street by a Green activist or a gang of youths.

Anonymous DissidentRight May 23, 2017 1:12 PM  

Battlefrog wrote:From a coldly historical perspective, I can't say there isn't some validity to the argument. But it feels more like counterproductive rhetoric. I get that VD thinks it's highly effective rhetoric, but I can only see it as the Spencer style "look at me" type of effective.

Vox is simply using his foresight to make a dramatic point on a subject that very, very few understand, but one on which he will inevitably be proved right. Your grandsons will look back and say, “Duh.”

Do you know some of the things that Lincoln did during the Civil War? And yet his face is literally carved into a mountain side.

Blogger lordabacus May 23, 2017 1:13 PM  

"Breivik clearly believed he was acting on behalf of the Norwegian people."

Breivik clearly SAID he was acting on behalf of the Norwegian people. To take mass murderers at their word on their motives can be its own brand selective naivete. Does anyone really believe Stalin was trying to bring about a workers' paradise?

Blogger James Dixon May 23, 2017 1:14 PM  

> Wouldn't it be denying the agentivity of the kids, their capacity to take decisions when they'll reach maturity, adulthood?

What exactly do you think it was they were attending? They had made their decisions.

> Breivik was a hero just like Dylan Roof.

If you insist on equating them, we can accept that. Remember that it was your decision though.

> Why should we behave like barbarians just because others do?

We're not going to behave like barbarians. We're going to be much more effective than they can ever hope to be.

> Love your neighbour as yourself...

And who is your neighbor?

Blogger James May 23, 2017 1:14 PM  

"No one is arguing that killing people period is bad."

Actually, killing people can be good. You use Jesus in your argument. Where did Jesus say killing was wrong? Do the Ten Commandments have an entry for killing? I think the word that was used was "murder". The Bible does not condemn killing in self-defense or executing someone that has violated certain Laws. It also does not condemn killing others is battle.

Blogger Huggums May 23, 2017 1:15 PM  

VD wrote:I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. I'm simply not sure that the rest of us are not doing even worse wrong by failing to resist what is clearly evil. I don't see any optimal choices here anymore.

I am slowly making peace with the fact that this is the case. I think I need to do a lot more for my own people before I give up entirely on the more optimal solutions.

VD, I've been reading more and got a text on the history of military strategy from one of your old reading lists. What would you consider some reliable sources for reading up on the history of the world? I believe that knowledge is more relevant than ever now.

Anonymous Bubbahotep May 23, 2017 1:15 PM  

This is why I have a special place in my heart for the Bushes... Carpetbagging cucks fooled so many here in Texas. Still are. Talk about cultural appropriation. lol. Bushes went full retard globohomo and were dispatched to the south to finalize reconstruction in Texas n Florida. Two most important southern states.

Anonymous patrick kelly May 23, 2017 1:16 PM  

" From here it looked like the supreme example of how to dissuade people from your side (a la McVeigh)."

McVeigh was never on my side. He's sippin' purple umbrellas drinks incognito with Koresh on some secluded island beach somewhere in the Pacific.

And some still sing their praises.

Anonymous Crew May 23, 2017 1:16 PM  

20-year-old activists who are being groomed for office qualify, yes. One victim had already been identified as a future prime minister.

Isn't it interesting that they are fond of 'grooming' the young ones for other behaviors as well.

Anonymous DissidentRight May 23, 2017 1:18 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:Bombing an abortion clinic or shooting up a Planned Parenthood office may not be your tactic of choice, but I do not shed too many tears when it happens.
It doesn't take UHIQ to figure out what sort of targets one would target if one was playing a wargame. But it probably wouldn't be abortion clinics.

Anonymous Crew May 23, 2017 1:18 PM  

@88: You are making a false equivalence there and you probably know it.

Anonymous BBGKB May 23, 2017 1:20 PM  

Breivik was a hero just like Dylan Roof

Dylan Roof was the white version of Omar Thornton fake news just never reports black on Asian/white crime.

Blogger Katechon May 23, 2017 1:20 PM  

@VD & Chris Mallory

Thanks for your respective reply. It's a very difficult topic, and you've helped me think about it.

Blogger ZhukovG May 23, 2017 1:20 PM  

@tz: Well, I hope you feel better. But this is not a target rich environment for your rant. Most that make a grand gesture about getting off the 'Trump Train', were never on to begin with.

I know of no one who blames Trump for the fiasco in New Orleans.

Deo Vindice

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 1:20 PM  

Look, slowpokes. What is war? And was Breivik pursuing a) business, b) personal vendettas, or c) politics by violent means?

This isn't actually that hard.

And as far as the "coldly historical perspective" goes, well, consider with whom you are dealing.

Anonymous Grayman May 23, 2017 1:21 PM  

Some here are whining about "oh the poor brown children, the innocent brown adults"....
Study the history of war, the aggressor sets the baseline rules of engagement.
In our current case the aggressors have made the baseline rules that they will breed us out while openly engaging in terror tactics. Our response must be capable of neutralizing this baseline or we have already lost. At a minimum our response must neutralize existing populations by whatever means necessary and make the costs of terror attacks so high that they will not be perpetuated and that hose who do are "resolved" immediately.
That only stops the advance of the enemy, you must then put in place strategy that allows you to remove the threat they pose.

Blogger Dexter May 23, 2017 1:23 PM  

Question for the Norwegian Reader:

Who do you think was under the bombs the Allies dropped on Germany during WW2?

Answer: Millions of women, children, and old men, whose only guilt was to be the spouse or child of a member of the Nazi Party (and often, not even that - their only guilt was to be a German living in a city). Of course, the "Breivik equivalent" targets (wives and children of top Nazis) were carefully protected, and only lower-ranking Nazi women and children were exposed to danger.

There are plenty of eyewitness accounts of them being burned and blasted to death.

Did the Allied bombing campaign represent a positive and decent quality, and a legitimate way of doing resistance?

Keep in mind that part of the reason you do not live under Nazi rule (or a Quisling regime) right now is that the Allies were willing to kill hundreds of thousands of women and children.

Anonymous patrick kelly May 23, 2017 1:23 PM  

I would like to hear Mr. Norway's thoughts about the barbaric acts of foreign hordes invading his country. Has he no outrage for them?

Anonymous Athor Pel May 23, 2017 1:23 PM  

"59. Anonymous Looking Glass May 23, 2017 12:48 PM
...
It's also the battlespace to watch: when things get really Agro, it's open slaughter of the political class. At this point, everyone should understand that.
"



About the traitors, remember that many of them write and publish their intentions and plans. They advertise that they are traitors. It's all public. Newspapers, magazines, professional journals, books, institutional white papers and on and on and on...

It's not hard to figure out who they are. They want you to know what they intend to do. You can see with your own eyes what they are doing right now. You can also see what they have done in the past. All that's required is the ability to read and ability to discern truth.

_________

"82. Blogger James Dixon May 23, 2017 1:06 PM
> I don't see any optimal choices here anymore.

The optimal choices when you're at war are those that preserve as many of your people as possible while inflicting the maximum damage possible on the enemy. Discerning those may be difficult.
..."


See my comment above.

Anonymous Grayman May 23, 2017 1:24 PM  

The contrast is amusing.... We have "what about me" pop up all the time and now we have "what about the brown kids"..... Make up your mind do you want to worry about you or the brown kids. Choose one.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer May 23, 2017 1:24 PM  

I keep telling people on the left that they have no idea how bad it's going to get at this rate. On days like today, I do find myself having a little trouble not rolling my eyes at concerns about "backlash". They have no idea.

This is where the leftists are miscalculating. If they prevent the "backlash" from taking place through the Government then they will have no say in what happens when the backlash comes directly from the populace. If they are truly concerned about the Muslims they would let us limit immigration and start deporting them. That way, they could at least have a say in how they are treated while in our custody. By taking that option away from the people then the response will be hostile tactics to try and scare Muslims into fleeing the country and when that fails, it will be outright killing them.

Anonymous DissidentRight May 23, 2017 1:25 PM  

lordabacus wrote:Breivik clearly SAID he was acting on behalf of the Norwegian people. To take mass murderers at their word on their motives can be its own brand selective naivete. Does anyone really believe Stalin was trying to bring about a workers' paradise?
This is a stupid comment.

Breivik could have declared he was acting on behalf of Buddha. Charles Martel could have declared he was acting on behalf of the Aztecs. The Yankees could have declared they were acting on behalf of the Constitution. Feminists can say the are acting on behalf of women.

The action is REAL and the consequences are REAL, whatever people may say about it, whatever lies or spin they may put on it, whatever they may believe about it. Breivik destroyed many enemies of the Norwegian people. FACT.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl May 23, 2017 1:25 PM  

@86 Bz

Exactly. The enemies at the top think nothing of mass murder. They're the guys who glorify the Reign of Terror and are sad that it ended. They're the "people" who think that 100+ million dead from collectivism is a good start. They bring tanks to a debate. Shoot, on the Left they're resurrecting Mao and his policies as the way to go.

Vandalizing a mosque is a weekend romp. The elites will just use it as an excuse to try to squish the peasants.

Optimistically, the elites wouldn't be dangerously lashing out like they are if they weren't afraid.

Anonymous Crew May 23, 2017 1:25 PM  

What really surprises me is that the usual suspects haven't started labeling it the Norwegian Holocaust yet.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 1:26 PM  

@VD

"I suggest you read up on the victims. Unless you think all politicians are intrinsically off-limits, of course, as the politicians would have us believe."

Though this belief is perhaps not as extreme as that of many figures in the legacy media, who seem to believe that openly-expressed doubt of their narrative is some kind of internationally-banned weapon of mass destruction. Just look at the rage that is triggered when anonymously-sourced fake news stories are dismissed out of hand:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5YoIEp3GwNs

Blogger Mr.MantraMan May 23, 2017 1:29 PM  

I think the value of the virtue signaling over Brevik is on the wane.

And that is all that it is virtue signaling, but to whom do they virtue signal to? Mainly scum.

Kind of ironic that Weaponsman (RIP) seemed to cast aspersions on Brevik nearly every week, but he a mighty SF warrior and his kind are in Afpak and the ME killing "children" by the truckload and by children I mean young idiot warrior men the same age as the precious children of the Left.

Blogger Ransom Smith May 23, 2017 1:29 PM  

This is a battle I have with my father (born end of baby boom)

He still thinks Christians​ should ignore politics. And is far too in to the whole "love and trust God " mentality for my tastes.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 1:31 PM  

@Snidely Whiplash

"Does it help if you imagine them as 17-year-old SS recruits?"

More like 17-year-old Cheka recruits.

Anonymous kfg May 23, 2017 1:31 PM  

While the majority will be engaged with mops and buckets, drying up the floor, somebody had better be seeing to turning off the tap and installing a new washer, or the mop work will never end.

Barbarians do not have taps. Preserving the proper functioning of a tap is the preservation of civilized behavior.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 23, 2017 1:32 PM  

I said "oh hell no" and that was that.

Oh what could have been.

Anonymous Amir Larijani May 23, 2017 1:34 PM  

Breivik reminds me of the closest thing to a "good" king that the northern kingdom of Israel--during the era of the Kings--had: Jehu.

Those familiar with Scripture will remember that none of the kings of the north were good--almost all of them engaged in "the sins of Jeroboam, son of Nebat".

But Jehu was not as bad as they were. Why? He killed off all the would-be kings tied to the line of Omri, all of whom were very evil.

Like Breivik, he had a LOT of blood on his hands.

Like Breivik, Jehu was not a "man after God's heart", although, by killing off many would-be leaders who were married to Baal worship, he accomplished more for God's cause than anyone else in the north, save for the prophets.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 23, 2017 1:34 PM  

Mazianni wrote:And anyway, who is to say whether some of those kids might have seen the light and eventually joined the other side? They'd have had the benefit of an insider's upbringing. Now we'll never know.
Some of those poor SS soldiers might eventually have seen the light and abandoned Nazism. They'd have had the benefit of of an insider's view. Now we'll never know.

For God's sake, at that age, father was raining artillery on Japanese bunkers, my uncles were storming beaches in Sicily and Normandy, one of my brothers was shooting Vietnamese in the jungle, another was sitting 200yds from the DMZ in Korea. At 16, my brother-in-law was freezing on Chosin reservoir, at 22, my wife's uncle was evading Japanese in the Burmese jungle, at 21, my father-in-law was serving as a midshipman, my great uncle was fighting in Cuba. At 21 and 23 my great-grandfather's brothers were serving as Union volunteers in Mississippi.

17, 20 and 24 year olds are not children.

Blogger Dalrock May 23, 2017 1:35 PM  

It is a huge mistake to lionize a loser like Breivik. He is no more a hero than the gamma who crashed the German Wings plane.

Anonymous Gurpgork May 23, 2017 1:35 PM  

@VD thanks for the clarifications, they help alot.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 1:36 PM  

@tz

Hey, someone finally mentioned Trump putting on the beanie and wailing at the remains of an ancient Roman fortress. He didn't really do the rocking thing-- I'll give him that. Can anyone name a prominent US politician other than Ron Paul who has not gone through this ritual of submission?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 1:39 PM  

@Bz

"Burning refugee centers is just striking at the limbs, or perhaps at the detachable tail."

Or perhaps shooting the water that is flooding the boat, rather than the man who is drilling holes in the hull.

Anonymous Grayman May 23, 2017 1:39 PM  

Ransom Smith wrote:This is a battle I have with my father (born end of baby boom)

He still thinks Christians​ should ignore politics. And is far too in to the whole "love and trust God " mentality for my tastes.


God doesn't do your work for you, he aids those who follow him in their time of need. To trust in jesus / God is one thing but to expect him to order the world and cut the lawn for you is insulting

Anonymous TS May 23, 2017 1:39 PM  

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." Matthew 11.12

Blogger lordabacus May 23, 2017 1:39 PM  

@Crew. @DissidentRight

I do not claim equivalence between Breivik and Stalin, and I am not making a point about what we believe the effectiveness of the attack to be. I am saying, in response to a specific claim VD made about motives, that we should not be too eager to grant to people the highest motives they ascribe to themselves. Stalin was meant as a case in point, not a precise equivalent. An "e.g." might have been called for.

Anonymous Sam the Man May 23, 2017 1:41 PM  

Not buying into Vox's argument but:

It kind of reminds me of Timothy Mcveigh. The government had not interest in pursing the FBI/ATF crimes that had occurred at Waco and indeed were busy making the arguments that right wing folks were a real danger. Things did not look good in early April 1995.

Then Tim blows up the federal building out of which the Waco operation was planned. Suddenly there are congressional investigations and a lot of the over to top Federal efforts against traditional Americans seemed to stop. I recall well the difference at the national matches in 1994 and 1995. In August 1994 there were police everywhere in the camp, like we competitors were a bunch of criminals. In 1995 they were gone, not even the MPs carried arms that year.

He was very effective and looked at from a distance of 22 years, might have prevented much worse government over reach by his action.

The problem is Mcweigh killed a bunch of innocent children and people of agencies that had nothing to do with the governments overreach. That is my problem. If we try to follow G-ds will, he hates the harming or killing of innocents. It seems to me the entire idea of collective guilt and acceptable collateral damage are evil concepts, we do not have a right to harm innocents to get at evil, or to ignore G-d commandments on this.

It comes down to this: We are not G-d and we do not have that G-d like ability to discern right from wrong or see the long term effect of evil actions. As such we were given the commandments to keep us from missing the mark. If the willful killing of young who have not yet committed sin is a correct action, well I just cannot square that cirle so to speak, once you go past these proscriptions on our behavior/actions, where do you stop and how do know when to stop. One cannot stop short of total war and total victory or defeat.

That is where I have a problem with Breivik and this analysis.

Of course I could be wrong, or missing something, as I have been often in this life. I am sure there are others in my situation. If There are those who see this clearer, please feel free to edify the rest of us.

Blogger Achilles May 23, 2017 1:42 PM  

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13

Saint Breivik sacrificed his freedom and risked his life for his friends and countrymen.

Anonymous TS May 23, 2017 1:42 PM  

You know back in the day they didn't even ask these stupid fucking questions they did what needed to be done and let God sort it out.

Blogger Huggums May 23, 2017 1:43 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:17, 20 and 24 year olds are not children.

Maybe but at 17 my political philosophy would've been that of the average liberal because that's what my ffiends and family believed. How many teenagers have really seriously thought through their political philosophies? How many would even be able do so in a reasonable manner? Why target teens as young as 14?

Anonymous Bowman May 23, 2017 1:44 PM  

ZhukovG wrote:What Anders Breivik did was evil and he should be punished for it.
No, he shouldn't. Don't make a cuck of yourself.

Blogger bagginz May 23, 2017 1:48 PM  

@5 >Why don't we refer to those that rave mindlessly about Islamophobia as Islamophobiaphobists?<

:)

I prefer to call them Infidelophobes or it, Infidelophobia

Anonymous kfg May 23, 2017 1:49 PM  

@Huggums:

Italian Armed Forces: Hey, guys, wait! Stop shooting us. In two years we'll be on your side.

Anonymous BBGKB May 23, 2017 1:50 PM  

Keep in mind that part of the reason you do not live under Nazi rule (or a Quisling regime) right now is that

It would really have sucked not having any black/brown people in Norway if Hitler won. I imagine it would have less financial scams as well

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 23, 2017 1:51 PM  

Why target teens as young as 14?

Because they weren't training 8-year old Islamic terrorists at this particular camp.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 1:52 PM  

@Dexter

"Keep in mind that part of the reason you do not live under Nazi rule (or a Quisling regime) right now is that the Allies were willing to kill hundreds of thousands of women and children."

Then again, would Hitler (or Quisling) have imported millions of non-Whites to Europe? In a way, that same bombing that killed a million civilians, also helped to bring about the current invasion.

Blogger Huggums May 23, 2017 1:54 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:The problem is Mcweigh killed a bunch of innocent children and people of agencies that had nothing to do with the governments overreach. That is my problem. If we try to follow G-ds will, he hates the harming or killing of innocents. It seems to me the entire idea of collective guilt and acceptable collateral damage are evil concepts, we do not have a right to harm innocents to get at evil, or to ignore G-d commandments on this.

Abraham asked God of he would sweep away the righteous with the wicked. God said he wouldn't destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of even 10 righteous people. However, we are not God and do not have his power and insight. Dealing with evil when it so easily hides amongst innocents is endlessly frustrating.

Blogger Euphoric Anger May 23, 2017 1:56 PM  

Vox, I really respect you for this essay.

Youre not my cup of tea exactly, but I do appreciate your vitriol towards civnat.

However, I gotta say your commentators are what initially drove me away. I could rarely argue with the points you put forth, but just watching these losers fall over themselves to impress you was just pathetic.

But jeeeeeeze, youre followers are cucks, or at least many of them are.

Take @118 for example:Dude equates an act of war with an act of cowardice. Come on, now. These fucks would have flooded a white country with murderers and rapists, but youre too concerned with your moral abstractions.

Pffft, I predict a great purge coming to Popoli.

Blogger S Bendyna May 23, 2017 1:56 PM  

Your choices are simpler than that - don't save Europe from Adolph Hitler and be rid of the current mess, or eliminate him and deal with it yourselves. The heavy lifting now rests on your shoulders, man up.

Anonymous Grayman May 23, 2017 1:56 PM  

It seems to me the entire idea of collective guilt and acceptable collateral damage are evil concepts, we do not have a right to harm innocents to get at evil, or to ignore G-d commandments on this.

And that is surely a path to defeat and destruction. Any such population is trivially bred out of existence by "peacefully" invading in large numbers and reproducing at a great rate than the natives while also cross breeding with them.
By being weak we invite greater harm to all. You shoot the first few hundred people who try to cross your border and leave them to rot and then you never end up with a humanitarian crisis of millions flooding into your nation.
By being "nice" you are now guilty of the mass suffering and violence that will befall that nation.
Killing the first few hundred after verbally warning them is the greater act of good.

"It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." For that is exactly what the "nice" humanitarian is doing when they allow the flood of outsiders to invade the nation. They invited the rape, the murder the social discord the loss of Christianity, the suicide bombing of concerts and the genital mutilation of young girls against their will.

What we face now is the price of our weakness. We wallowed in gluttony and sloth in worship mammon and now we will pay the price in blood one way or the other.
The best one can do is act to preserve family and country and ask that God guide them as righteously as they be capable of.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable May 23, 2017 1:57 PM  

It is a huge mistake to lionize a loser like Breivik. He is no more a hero than the gamma who crashed the German Wings plane.

Huge respect for Dalrock, but a man is more than the sum of his personal obsessions and gamma weirdness. In terms of God's judgment on his personal choices, maybe he's a loser. I think that's likely.

But in terms of his long-term political impact and the people he has galvanized into action and the lives he may have saved, that's something else. I think Vox understands that, without becoming some kind of Breivik devotee.

Anonymous BBGKB May 23, 2017 1:57 PM  

Why target teens as young as 14?

Tell that to John Pedosta & the people who brought TRANNY MATH to elementary school

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/lesbian-i-use-math-class-to-teach-young-kids-about-homosexuality-so-i-can-h

"Gunn mocked the parents for failing to realize just how extensive are pro-LGBTQ issues in the classroom and curriculum.

“And it’s not one day a year,” she said. “If you don’t want to send your kid to school on the Day of Pink, that’s OK. But they’re going to get it all the days before. They would have got it in September, and they’re going to get it after. So, one day? We’re not about one day.”

Blogger Euphoric Anger May 23, 2017 1:58 PM  

Dont you guys feel that tingling in your balls as you watch third worlders invade our countries?

Are you so sterilized that you would not step up an partake in the most ancient of human pursuits and condemn those who do?

Anonymous VFM #6306 May 23, 2017 2:00 PM  

SB said it well on Gab: if you have poisonous snakes in the grass, you mow the grass.

Who cares if Junior Jihadi has a change of heart when he's all grown up? He and his kind were the things the die-hards were hiding in.

Want to be a moderate muslim and not die innocently? Start purging your snakes instead of cheering them on.

Not Breivik's problem that a couple of Secret Sheiks dressed up like Jihad Joe at the Holy War hoedown.

They could have ducked.

Anonymous Raw Cringe May 23, 2017 2:01 PM  

Ugh, this St. Breivik crap again. Give it a rest. Famous quotes from eminent men are not enough to build a system of morality.

Anonymous DissidentRight May 23, 2017 2:01 PM  

lordabacus wrote:@Crew. @DissidentRight

I do not claim equivalence between Breivik and Stalin, and I am not making a point about what we believe the effectiveness of the attack to be. I am saying, in response to a specific claim VD made about motives, that we should not be too eager to grant to people the highest motives they ascribe to themselves. Stalin was meant as a case in point, not a precise equivalent. An "e.g." might have been called for.

When a man’s claimed motives line up with his actions, disputing his motives reeks of midwit/gamma tedium.

Anonymous Athor Pel May 23, 2017 2:02 PM  

"79. Anonymous Mazianni May 23, 2017 1:05 PM
...
Doing things "against Norway's interests" is in almost all cases not a capital crime. And even more so given that those "things" were only going to be done at some point, maybe, in the future.
..."



Doing something against a nation's interests as a citizen of that nation is treason.

Those things are already being done and those young people were being groomed to continue doing them.

Anonymous Ominous Cowherd May 23, 2017 2:04 PM  

SidVic wrote:But unsure whether i buy into this saint Breivik business. Guy appears crazy as a shit-house mouse.

That doesn't mean he was wrong.

Blogger Zundfolge May 23, 2017 2:07 PM  

He's a monster. He killed mostly innocent children. Had he targeted their parents you might be able to make the case for his actions, but killing children simply because their parents are bad people is wrong.

Children often rebel against their parents. Its possible that Brevik actually killed off people that today would be leading the pro-western/anti migrant movements against their own cuckolded parents.

Blogger Ransom Smith May 23, 2017 2:07 PM  

@Grayman

It's where my father and I differ. I plan to line my property with explosives and mount .50 cal.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 2:09 PM  

Of course, the other issue with Breivik is that he (at times) claimed to be a Zionist, and that part of his stated motivation for killing the leftists was that they were not pro-Israel enough. He was not consistent on this, and later stated that he made these claims for tactical reasons (kind of the inverse of "Hollywood Nazi" LARPing). It's a little difficult to sort out exactly what the truth is on that one.

http://world.time.com/2011/07/26/norway-terror-accused-breivik-on-the-jewish-question/

Side note: the (((author))) used to live on South Africa, but apparently fled to NYC from the sort of "anti-racist" society that he claims to endorse.

http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2012/08/andrei-brevik-christian-zionist-and.html?m=1

(Author appears to be a leftist, probably secular, anti-Zionist Jew)

Anonymous Bz May 23, 2017 2:09 PM  

"live under Nazi rule (or a Quisling regime) right now"

Mmmmm ... Sorry, lost my focus there for a second, you were saying?

Anonymous Bowman May 23, 2017 2:09 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:The problem is Mcweigh killed a bunch of innocent children and people of agencies that had nothing to do with the governments overreach.
Every agent of the government is paid by taxation. Every agent of the government has chosen to enforce immoral laws on people. That's the opposite of innocence.

Sam the Man wrote:It comes down to this: We are not G-d and we do not have that G-d like ability to discern right from wrong or see the long term effect of evil actions.
So you're basically a sheep, not a human. No interest talking to a sheep.

Anonymous TS May 23, 2017 2:11 PM  

"Its possible that Brevik actually killed off people that today would be leading the pro-western/anti migrant movements against their own cuckolded parents."

Highly unlikely.

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6

Anonymous Bz May 23, 2017 2:11 PM  

By the way, since we're discussing age, the jihadist who blew up the Manchester concert was 22.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 23, 2017 2:13 PM  

@37 Tom Kratman, Is this also why the Derp Statists, while they undoubtedly have their lists of names (including yours), have resisted the urge to send two guys in dark suits to show you photos of your children with superimposed crosshairs, or note to you how dangerous are their occupations? [yes, I have an idea what you're thinking.]

While the alphabet agency soup has the power to kill, I suggest that employing it beyond just the "Seth Rich" fringes would simply hasten the end of their reign.

The ability to do something doesn't come with the power to do so without unintended consequences. A night of roundups doesn't seem likely.

As to Breivik, all this reminds me that once the Diversity Deck was shuffled like playing cards, it isn't only the face cards that will be part of the battle to sort out homogeneous suits.

All roads now lead to horrors BECAUSE the invaders feel entitled to invade and the clowns inviting them won't repent and relent. Whining about the horrors now baked in is a lot like Leftist Virtue-signaling. It doesn't make one better for having done it.

Anonymous DissidentRight May 23, 2017 2:14 PM  

Sam the Man wrote:If we try to follow G-ds will, he hates the harming or killing of innocents. It seems to me the entire idea of collective guilt and acceptable collateral damage are evil concepts, we do not have a right to harm innocents to get at evil, or to ignore G-d commandments on this.
You’ve clearly never read the Bible. The Israelites exterminated (or partially exterminated) the Canaanite people on the premise of their collective guilt. God ascribed collective guilt to the Israelite people and punished them collectively, and collectively sent them in to captivity. God even actually killed thousands of innocent Israelites because David numbered the army.

Our American fetish for individualism is all very well and good, but to do theology through its lens is pure nonsense. Innocence and guilt transcend the individual. Do you really think the average Canaanite or Israelite was more culpable than the average American, let alone average progressive, let alone average globalist official? They revel in abortion and degeneracy, we merely tolerate it.

Blogger RobertT May 23, 2017 2:14 PM  

War is ugly.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl May 23, 2017 2:15 PM  

For all those who said Breivik killed "children" - were they the same "children" we find in Sweden, born in the 1970s and 1980s?

Also, childhood ends between 10-12, on average, biologically.

And someone who is 22 is not a "child." That's lefty bull - a kid can be sexualised at five years old, but they're still a kid at 28.

I also think of how irregular soldiers and partisans would go after officers. In European tradition, officers came from the noble/ruling classes. To Breivik, he was attacking their officer corps. I don't *like what Breivik did, but he did nothing the Left is not actively doing and Breivik merely applied the rules of war.

Had he been a Turk or a Commie, he'd be a hero to the media.

Blogger tuberman May 23, 2017 2:16 PM  

It's simple once again, Globalist Elite are the worst of monsters, worse that the Mussies, worse than the Cartels, the only worse evils are the Cucks and people like McCain and the like.

Anonymous BBGKB May 23, 2017 2:17 PM  

Rhetoric of 2 Milos from 4 hours ago.
3 upvotes for
“And when they behead your own people in the wars, which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.” — Slobodan Milosevic

137 upvotes for
Muslims are like the common cold and leftists are like Aids. It's easy to fight off a cold... unless you have Aids." -- Milo

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 23, 2017 2:17 PM  

Famous quotes from eminent men are not enough to build a system of morality.

At least it's an ethos

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl May 23, 2017 2:17 PM  

@154

If they went after Kratman's family, there wouldn't be a "they" for very long.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 2:18 PM  

@BBGKB

"Why target teens as young as 14?

Tell that to John Pedosta & the people who brought TRANNY MATH to elementary school"

But if they're really "Born this Way," then why the need for such intensive propaganda? It is kind of odd, when you think about it, that the same leftists that are such Blank Slate absolutists when it comes to almost every other trait, are rabid genetic determinists when it comes to this one.

Blogger tuberman May 23, 2017 2:20 PM  

159.
"Muslims are like the common cold and leftists are like Aids. It's easy to fight off a cold... unless you have Aids." -- Milo"

Great quote!

Blogger Giraffe May 23, 2017 2:20 PM  

I think the point Vox is trying to make is that it is better to crack a few eggs to make an omelet than it is to put 10 tons of tnt in the chicken coop.

We have the opportunity to get rid of them with minimal bloodshed, but almost nobody recognizes this. So we're going to get the worst case.

Blogger Tom Kratman May 23, 2017 2:22 PM  

@161

I would assume that they'd go after me first. And I could be gotten, I am sure. Going after my family, on the other hand, and not taking care of me, would be as serious a mistake as I could make it.

Anonymous TheSmokingMan#3424 May 23, 2017 2:22 PM  

horsewithnonick wrote:I prefer the more succinct 'coward'. Strike first, Strike last.

Blogger frigger611 May 23, 2017 2:23 PM  

Going to the rifle range to splodey things.

A Saxon's itch, I reckon.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 23, 2017 2:24 PM  

@138 Grayman, I concur.

Those who "feel bad" for the hungry raccoons--so they feed them--are soon overrun. If you're not willing to shoot the kits, you'll forever be overrun.

This is why dehumanizing follows overhumanizing. Too much empathy is followed by zero mercy.

Life is a pendulum, not a static line or an unchanging point. By inviting aliens out of pathological empathy, our feminized culture warriors embedded mass violence on a house-to-house level in our future.

Sooner or later, it will be common sentiment that the best way to get rid of "those dangerous aliens" will be to target them down to the DNA.

Part of me says "it didn't have to be this way," but then I reconsider, knowing that even after this looming battle is over (in 100 years?), eventually people will forget, and out of misplaced trust and openness they'll again invite in people whose genetically programmed way of life is inimical to ours.

Blogger Some Guy May 23, 2017 2:25 PM  

At some point, violence will become not only necessary, but unavoidable. I do not like what the man did, but it was particularly intelligent of him to target the youth that would one day grow up to take the country into it's destruction. The French elite were continuing to ignore the peasants right up until the moment they were dragged out and placed in guillotines. This is considerably more direct and strategic.

Whether anyone follows it or not, this is just the first stage of people beginning to reject the new corporate form of feudalism known as globalism.

Blogger Sheila4g May 23, 2017 2:26 PM  

@40 Lazarus: "The elites don't mind sacrificing OTHER people's children."

They sacrifice their own all the time {abortion, to sainted rapefugees, to vibrants} and absolutely ooze their virtue in response. More precisely, they don't want the wrong sort of people {aka nationalists or badthinking Whites} to sacrifice them beforetimes. Then their deaths are not always as useful in pushing the agenda, although they will never let a crisis go to waste {a la Dylan Roof}.

A few months back, the SJWs were debating the morality of going back in time and killing young Hitler. What was their consensus? Personally, if I could go back and ensure George Schwartz/Soros died before he could spawn, I would do so in a heartbeat. Yes, we all could and have changed our minds many times during the course of our lives. That in no way denies our agency at the time we made our earlier choices. At 20 I was undeniably less informed or mature than I am now, but my choices then were no more illegitimate at that time than my choices now. None of us will ever see more than through a glass darkly. We cannot continually second guess our own actions, let alone others', on the basis that "in time" we/they might have come to see the light. Jesus is always there, waiting for us to invite him in. The evildoers of this world are also always there, and Satan is always tempting. Make your choices and deal with the consequences at that time. Humans live linearly; stop playing "What if?" and condemning past judgment on the basis of ex post facto situations and suppositions.

Blogger Esmar Tuek May 23, 2017 2:26 PM  

If the US govt wants to take out a certain individual, they'll drone bomb ten families with small kids, if they have to. Sometimes they'll take out innocent families without hitting the target.

What breivik did is nothing compared to that really. From what I've read, he achieved something too. As opposed to droning, which just makes more jihadis on the whole.

Blogger Matthew May 23, 2017 2:27 PM  

Sure are a lot of commenters in this thread with names I've never seen here before.

Blogger Josh (the gayest thing here) May 23, 2017 2:33 PM  

Sure are a lot of commenters in this thread with names I've never seen here before.

Greetings fellow alt right dot meme

Blogger Dirk Manly May 23, 2017 2:36 PM  

@Wanderer
Those weren't just any teenagers. They were the offspring off the current bureaucracy who us trying to ram Nozzles down Norwegian society's throat -- whether Norwegians want the Mozvzies or not.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 2:37 PM  

@Some Guy

"The French elite were continuing to ignore the peasants right up until the moment they were dragged out and placed in guillotines."

Actually, many if the peasants were not lucky enough to get the guillotine. They often got the "Republican marriage" and similar delights.

https://infogalactic.com/info/War_in_the_Vend%C3%A9e

OpenID dreadilkzee May 23, 2017 2:39 PM  

Breivik was just reviving (adopting?) age old tradition of killing your enemies children so that in a generation you are weaker. He learned fast from the Muslim invaders.

It's the same reason Pharaoh killed some many of the Jewish male boys so that he wasn't fast with a hostile army in his own country. Pharaoh's problem is he should have freed them and sent them on their way. Muslim's problem is they should stay in their own lands.
Breivik's problem is he was already invaded.

Anonymous Random #57 May 23, 2017 2:39 PM  

"I understand, from sources I trust, that even now, already, the Norwegian left is feeling the pinch, that they cannot replace what they've lost."

Killing the mid-teens or later children of leftists is particularly effective because they tend to not have many, and to have them late in their fertile years, making direct replacement impossible.

Anonymous Bobby Farr May 23, 2017 2:40 PM  

Killing leftists and their families is an acceptable tactic. It is well within the bounds of the sort of behavior we celebrate in the context of past wars, most of which were fought on far more dubious grounds than a war to expel an invading foreign horde and their native leaders. The only valid objection I can see to make against Breivik is that he chose low value targets and targets of a type that would maximize the negative public response.

A year ago I would have said that I don't see how a loner killing some professors, judges, politicians, activists, etc. will change anything but at this point it doesn't seem like we will soon have an organized and violent far right group assassinating prominent leftists. It may be that isolated attacks by loners like Breivik is the most the West can muster in its defense.

Blogger Dirk Manly May 23, 2017 2:40 PM  

@VFM 7916

Take the cuck to Africa.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 23, 2017 2:41 PM  

@Esmar Tuek

"If the US govt wants to take out a certain individual, they'll drone bomb ten families with small kids, if they have to. Sometimes they'll take out innocent families without hitting the target."

Barry was personally responsible for authorizing drone attacks in which about 200 children were killed. And this was in support of empire, not defense of home. It does not seem to weigh heavily on his conscience, nor to diminish the admiration that leftists have for the Magic Mulatto.

Anonymous Anonymous May 23, 2017 2:42 PM  

Vox, may need to check the T-level of some of your commenters.

Your very real analysis of the current situation is scaring some of our low T friends

Blogger ZhukovG May 23, 2017 2:43 PM  

@Matthew: Breivik frightens them. Even in prison his existence haunts their lives. In the dark recesses of their mind they know he represents a reckoning that is coming for them.

Blogger Durandel Almiras May 23, 2017 2:43 PM  

To the anti-Breviks, what is your idea of a response? The Left is waging a war against you, they want to destroy you and your posterity and anything tied to that. So what are the alternatives you propose? Dialog with an actively hostile enemy that has no reason to repent? Dialog with a people who have a religious mandate or a ideological one to destroy you? Surrender to people committing evil? Surrender to people who seek to remove and displace G-d?

Seriously, what do you recommend that Good people should do in a war against Evil? Because I see a lot of virtue signaling but no real solutions.

I came here after watching Stephan Molyneux's video with Simon Roche titled the Fall of South Africa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rASKrisLXS4

All I could think in watching the whole video is that this is what is coming to the entire West if we don't make an about fast and start making some tough decisions that many will see as mean and will likely hurt others as we seek to decide what is in our best interests among the nations of the West.

To those better at history that I, have a previous people in history taken so much on the chin as present day Westerners and not fought back yet? I know we keep talking about the tide turning but I am flabbergasted that we are tolerating so much abuse and not filling the streets with Leftist blood already. The American rebels during the Revlution put their lives on the line for slights that are far less than what we endure now.

So what is the trigger? Will the leadership crisis in the West end soon and a group of men will show up to lead the Recoquista 2.0? Where are our Great Men of our age?

Blogger Student in Blue May 23, 2017 2:48 PM  

@175. Some Guy
It takes a whole lot of learning and studying to become as confused as many in this forum are.

Some people are just talented at it.

Blogger Achilles May 23, 2017 2:53 PM  

A lot of people calling Breivik a loser. Who is more likely to take action - the jobless nobody with nothing to lose or the battle-hardened veteran with a career and a family? The suicide bomber last night was probably a loser. In this war the losers will lead the way. Action beats talk. And comfort breeds inaction.

Blogger Nick S May 23, 2017 2:53 PM  

"I get that VD thinks it's highly effective rhetoric, but I can only see it as the Spencer style "look at me" type of effective."

Do a little more research. Vox's rhetoric is usually more dialectically sound than it appears at first glance. I'm never positive, but I'm pretty sure he does that on purpose...at least some of the time.

It took me a couple of years to learn that the few things I really disagree with Vox on aren't deal breakers or even significant enough to argue about even though I do enjoy taking a friendly jab every now and again to see if I can get a rise out of him.

Blogger Dexter May 23, 2017 2:54 PM  

Keep in mind that part of the reason you do not live under Nazi rule (or a Quisling regime) right now is that

It would really have sucked not having any black/brown people in Norway if Hitler won. I imagine it would have less financial scams as well


Yeah yeah yeah, just trying to point out that if killing women and children is The Worst Thing Ever and Not Legitimate, well, it's been done plenty of times.

Blogger Dexter May 23, 2017 2:57 PM  

Maybe but at 17 my political philosophy would've been that of the average liberal because that's what my ffiends and family believed. How many teenagers have really seriously thought through their political philosophies? How many would even be able do so in a reasonable manner? Why target teens as young as 14?

Look at what the Workers' Youth League summer camp is.

It is NOT a camp for "the average liberal". It is for teens who are indeed "serious" about their political philosophies.

From wiki:

"Three prime ministers, Trygve Bratteli, Thorbjørn Jagland, and Jens Stoltenberg have been leaders in AUF. In addition, Oddvar Norli was leader of local chapter of Hedmark AUF and Gro Harlem Brundtland was deputy leader of Sosialistisk Studentlag and Arbeiderpartiets Studentlag, local chapters of AUF, before they both served as prime ministers. The German Chancellor and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Willy Brandt was a member of AUF during his exile in Norway."

Blogger Ransom Smith May 23, 2017 2:57 PM  

I wonder if it's time to meme historical killers back into popularity.

Basil the Bulgar Slayer comes to mind.

Anonymous Sam the Man May 23, 2017 2:58 PM  

#151 Bowman,

You are a pussy Bowman.

# 155 Dissident right

I have read the prophets and Moses on more than a few occasions. The difference is that G-D instructed the ancient Israelis to do this, and they followed orders. You will recall that when Saul did not follow through on killing all of the Amalekites he lost his kingdom for it. I am well aware of theses instances in the Torah.

That said in Beriviks case the individuals is deciding to do it on his own, to act beyond the instructions given to him by the commandments. That is where I see an issue that seems to violate Christian instructions and once that wall is breached, I do not see a way short of total war to close it back up. Maybe the time has come, but one violates G-d Commandments with out command....bad things happen.

That said once again, I may be missing something and I thank you for your response.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT May 23, 2017 2:59 PM  

Breivik is what happens when an arrogant elite seek to dilute and destroy the race, culture, and/or religion of a majority under their leadership. It's not the first time in history something like this has happened, nor will it be the last.

I, personally, do not think his actions were justified at the time. There were still other avenues to pursue. Given that lives were taken this makes him not just morally wrong, but evil.

But what the left doesn't understand is that we are rapidly approaching a line where actions like his will be required of those who wish to preserve western civilization. Once that line is crossed, the blood is on their hands, not the hands of the killers. When civil war comes to Europe because of the Muslim hordes, the deaths will be on the politicians, teachers, protesters, and stupid people who supported the invasion for the purpose of virtue signaling. Of appearing to be good to their neighbors. The blood will not be on western soldiers, but on the silly women standing at train stations with "refugee welcome!" signs.

Likewise, the left in America will scream bloody murder if their violence and fraud pushes this country into civil conflict. But the blood will be on their hands, not on the "fascist right" which responds with force.

Blogger ZhukovG May 23, 2017 3:00 PM  

@Achilles: This is true. I imagine more than a few of Breiviks critics are, if honest, just a little envious of him. He struck a blow. Whether for good or ill, history will remember him.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( forgive us of our baiting, as we forgive those who bait against us ) May 23, 2017 3:00 PM  

19. VD May 23, 2017 12:12 PM
I have no sympathy for Communism either.
...
are still to be preferred to globalism, multiculturalism, and feminism.



are you trying to make me sperg here?


73. Cuckleberry Finn May 23, 2017 1:00 PM
These are dreadful times indeed when thoughtful men seek excuses for proactive murder.


ah. the brave man who would not have defended his wife in an Indian raid nor would have fought against the British or Hitler.

tis a terribly said thing to offend his sensibilities.



79. Mazianni May 23, 2017 1:05 PM
Doing things "against Norway's interests" is in almost all cases not a capital crime.


another term for that crime is 'Treason' ... and the primary reason we don't execute people for Treason any more is that we'd have to string up about 3/4 of the educators and Jews in this country and 95% of the news media.

cuz, you know, the Rosenberg's were innocent and it was McCarthy we needed to punish.


88. lordabacus May 23, 2017 1:13 PM
Does anyone really believe Stalin was trying to bring about a workers' paradise?


Marx demanded two genocides in the Communist Manifesto. Lenin and Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot and etc, ad nauseum were only following the declaration of total war Marx laid out in 1848.

that you are too stupid to observe that the destruction of the Bourgeois so that the Worker's Paradise can be implemented is a declaration of genocide against you and your children ...
well i guess your children don't deserve to survive.

Anonymous TS May 23, 2017 3:01 PM  

"Or the Jesus who praised the faith of the Roman centurion, is anywhere nearly as appalled by war as most men would like to believe."

No kidding read the bible folks, some of the most bloodiest killing of the wicked by Jesus is still to come...

And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Revelation 15

The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. Revelation 19:21

"The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance; he will bathe his feet in the blood of the wicked." Psalm 58:10

Anonymous swede May 23, 2017 3:04 PM  

"You may recall that someone once said something about the quality of the love that such a self-sacrifice requires. Can you honestly say that it was nothing but simple hatred that inspired him?"

I never thought hate was much of a motivating factor for Breivik. He went in to quite some detail of how he worked to deaden his emotions and steel himself for the killing. Some of that, like playing WoW for thousands of hours, seemed like bullshit, but a lot of it seemed genuinely effective. Like taking steroids and, IIRC, speed as well as putting on headphones to drown out the victims and emotionally manipulate and distance himself from the situation. That doesn't seem like the actions of someone driven by sadism and insane blood lust. Note that that planning was despite his original plan being hitting adult politicians rather than Utöya, which was a target of opportunity as his priority targets weren't available. So he planned to really psych himself up to kill adults that he had every reason to hate intensely rather than the teenagers he did wind up shooting.

My pet theory is and was that his primary motivation was some sort of narcissistic desire to paint himself as a big historical figure, hero or villain, after having a deeply dysfunctional upbringing and having failed in his business ventures.

I think all the theatrical posturing and weirdness sort of supports that. Initially he claimed to be part of a network of knight templars and took great pains to make sure attractive model photos were available to the media. But on the other hand he was brutally honest and wrote about a lot of unflattering things about himself too. For instance, describing how he saw an escort the night before the operation as a sort of last hurrah before never touching a woman again.

FWIW I think trying to tease out a Breivik effect at all is quite difficult. Comparisons with Germany and Sweden are sort of misleading as both countries are so extremely nuts. Finland and Denmark should be considered too and they're a lot closer to Norway than Sweden, despite no St Breiviks in either country. Certainly I don't see any evidence for some sort of strong negative effect either.

I recall my own reaction at the time, being newly nationalist, at first being horrified and distancing myself but quickly moving on and becoming more extremely nationalist anyway. For the simple reason that contact with diversity is a constant, everyday factor that drains your empathy for foreigners whereas any kind of violent action is a temporary shock that you forget.

Blogger Nate May 23, 2017 3:05 PM  

Don't you understand Vox? Its only war when governments do it.

oh.. and pirates.

and terrorists.

and umm...

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 23, 2017 3:05 PM  

@155. DissidentRight

As soon I see a pillar of fire by night and a pillar of smoke by day, preceded with signs and wonders, and God's proclamation made through a bonafide prophet, I will follow Old Testament's Israel.

Look, the Old Testament and God's instructions to Israel therein recorded do not apply to non-Israel and especially do not apply to Christians. BTW, throughout the Old Testament Israel's possession of the land is conditional on Israel's performance under The Law.

Blogger JaimeInTexas May 23, 2017 3:11 PM  

@122. Grayman

It depends. There are times where God has indeed done the work for us. It all depends on God's commission/call. We are always called to some act of faith but faith is not presumption or self-delusion.

Anonymous Humpty Dumpty Parumpty May 23, 2017 3:11 PM  

"I too have difficulty with it morally."

Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought

Blogger VD May 23, 2017 3:12 PM  

We have the opportunity to get rid of them with minimal bloodshed, but almost nobody recognizes this. So we're going to get the worst case.

Exactly.

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