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Friday, May 12, 2017

Mercury is mercury

And none of it is good for you, regardless of how it is ingested or administered:
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) once again advised pregnant women to curb consumption of fish in order to limit fetal exposures to neurotoxic mercury. This warning raises the baffling query: How can the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) justify its recommendations that pregnant women get flu shots which are laden with far more mercury than what’s found in a can of tuna?

The CDC has long answered that nettlesome question with the controversial claim that ethylmercury in vaccines is not toxic to humans. Now, two CDC scientists have published research decisively debunking that assertion. As it turns out, there is no “good mercury” and “bad mercury.” Both forms are equally poisonous to the brain.

The CDC study, Alkyl Mercury-Induced Toxicity: Multiple Mechanisms of Action, appeared last month in the journal, Reviews of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology. The 45-page meta-review of relevant science examines the various ways that mercury harms the human body. Its authors, John F. Risher, PhD, and Pamela Tucker, MD, are researchers in the CDC’s Division of Toxicology and Human Health Sciences, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.

“This scientific paper is the one of most important pieces of research to come out of the CDC in a decade,” Paul Thomas, M.D., a Dartmouth-trained pediatrician who has been practicing medicine for 30 years, said. “It confirms what so many already suspected: that public health officials have been making a terrible mistake in recommending that we expose babies and pregnant women to this neurotoxin.
One would have thought that simply the term "neurotoxin" would be sufficient to dissuade scientists and doctors from recommending ingestion, but apparently not. Look, they can produce all the "metastudies" they like to claim that injecting any amount of poison into very small children is absolutely harmless, but the concept simply defies logic on multiple levels.

And one doesn't have to be "anti-vaccine" to question the medical community's mantra that all vaccines are equally efficacious, safe, and necessary. Or to be aware of the reality of corporate profit motives, their historical indifference to consumer health, and regulatory capture.

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119 Comments:

Anonymous Sam the Man May 12, 2017 11:08 AM  

I still hold onto my few remaining half filled vials of mercurochrome. taken of the market but nothing worked as well with wounds not quite serious enough o go to the doctor, but serious enough that without it you would have had to worry and had a significant chance of infection.

That said the idea of inoculating pregnant women is crazy, you would not do that to an animal.

Anonymous Critically Bent May 12, 2017 11:12 AM  

Stop being such an alarmist!

Public health demands that we all obey our overlords equally. Herd immunity require the entire herd to be immunized!

Surely they are smarter than us since they have managed to become overlords in the first place!

(I especially love the cognitive dissonance induced when you ask why it isn't OK for people to skip vaccinating their perfectly healthy undiseased kids, but it is OK to import thousands of unvaccinated people from populations with KNOWN INFECTIONS of said diseases.)

Blogger bosscauser May 12, 2017 11:25 AM  

Sushi liberals Braindead...
Got it!

Gab.ai/GaryCauser

Blogger haus frau May 12, 2017 11:27 AM  

"And one doesn't have to be "anti-vaccine" to question the medical community's mantra that all vaccines are equally efficacious, safe, and necessary. Or to be aware of the reality of corporate profit motives, their historical indifference to consumer health, and regulatory capture."

These points are absolutely the most difficult to get through to vaccine indoctrinated people. They can plainly see how corrupt the government is in so many other areas and even complain about pharma corruption but vaccines and vaccine doctrine is sacrosanct. Its like they simply cannot hear you. Personally, I've always thought corporate capture and perverse incentives for mandating vaccines to be the most convincing reasons to steer clear of vaccines in general.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 12, 2017 11:33 AM  

Ignaz Semmelweis went against prevailing medical doctrine (suggesting hand-washing to his peers) and was so vilified that he died in an insane asylum. More recently, physicians INSISTED that no bacterium could survive the acidic environment of the stomach and disdainfully rejected the notion that gastric ulcers could have a microbial genesis.

If you were in a job where institutionalized errors are a certainty, every time one of them is revealed you would have to confront the reality that by your actions you had harmed people you intended to help. Compare that to Leftists whose "charitable impulses," welfare safety-nets ostensibly meant to help people, instead turn them into chronic dependents...slaves or pets, take your pick.

The HIV-AIDS theory violates Koch's Postulates, yet anyone who questions it is driven into the desert. Many billions of dollars poured into an industry indistinguishable from alchemy (where the promised "gold" is forever One Breakthrough Away) but who will question?

Humans remains savages, just in a coat and tie, and belief trumps reality at every turn.

I encountered PHYSICIANS who thought thimerosol was no longer in vaccines. Stupid. Stupid.

Hint: see "section 11," description.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 12, 2017 11:37 AM  

I don't know what is reality. I don't even know what I'd recommend to my kids, who face this question about vaccinating my grandchildren.

All I know is that what I'm told is full of exaggerations and omissions. I can't tell if this is better or not.

Blogger S1AL May 12, 2017 11:43 AM  

Most single-dose flu vaccine don't have mercury, but I'd still never recommend flu vaccines generally or for children specifically.

Anonymous Grayman May 12, 2017 11:45 AM  

DC

As someone who works in this field, all I can say is that you could write a modern day "The Jungle" about pharma.

Through the miracle of statistical analysis in conjunction with the placebo effect, you can often turn night into day and up into down. The orphan drug field is even worse in terms of the "sausage".

And all of those double blind studies.... There are a fair number of labs that can make sure the right result is achieved.....

Anonymous Grayman May 12, 2017 11:50 AM  

As someone who sees how "sausage" is made, the problem for me is that some of these products are legitimate and useful, There are others that are borderline at best.
Short of having an inside line to research data there is not much you can due to differentiate the 2 easily.
The issue is trust. There is generally no integrity left in the industry hence you have to assume you are rolling the dice.

Blogger Tallen May 12, 2017 11:51 AM  

I don't know what is reality. I don't even know what I'd recommend to my kids, who face this question about vaccinating my grandchildren.

Delay and space out injections. How long is up to the parents but my preference is to wait for a growth spurt to pass after the recommended vaccination date. Unless the kids live near the diseased refugees our politicians import.

Blogger M Cephas May 12, 2017 11:52 AM  

If anything, it would be far worse to inject mercury directly into your body. At least food goes through the gut where there's the chance it can be eliminated before causing damage.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 12, 2017 11:57 AM  

Grayman, plenty of such exposes are published. If you wanted a pornographic view of the underbelly, there's even an anonymous web forum for employee rants, nicely arranged by operating company.
It's an open secret...and an open sewer.

I once heard a famous physician at the top of his sub-specialty field say, "[Well-known pharma company] put all of my kids through college." (I think his kids all went to Northwestern or similarly expensive school.)

Unlimited money plus politics plus little oversight equals the piling up of a mountain of crap-we-think-we-know-that-just-ain't-so.

The 21st or 22nd century may be the time when someone decides that so much BS is disguised as knowledge that it's necessary to throw it ALL out and start from scratch. A lot of babies will go out with the bathwater.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 12, 2017 12:01 PM  

Try again: Web forum underbelly.

Blogger Aeoli Pera May 12, 2017 12:03 PM  

Huh, maybe next the medical profession will notice that autism is brain damage and Asperger's isn't.

Blogger Azimus May 12, 2017 12:09 PM  

From the article:
Its authors, John F. Risher, PhD, and Pamela Tucker, MD, are researchers in the CDC’s Division of Toxicology and Human Health Sciences, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.


Interesting this comes FROM the CDC itself...

Anonymous Grayman May 12, 2017 12:14 PM  

DC,

I have walked away from a few projects because it was beyond questionable even if FDA Approved.

Anonymous Grayman May 12, 2017 12:17 PM  

Tech question....
Trying to use Brave Browser but my posts just disappear when I press "publish" ????

Blogger NO GOOGLES May 12, 2017 12:18 PM  

I wouldn't bother with a flu vaccine unless you've had good experiences with them in the past, or you're part of an at-risk demographic (immunocompromised, old age, etc). US flu vaccines don't have any mercury in them because we use only single dose vaccines - the vaccines with ethylmercury as a preservative are the multiple use bottles, and generally they are only used in poorer areas of the world.

As for vaccines in general: if they're for shit like measles, mumps, rubella, etc then don't delay them or whatever for your kids, just get them the shots.

Other shit like HPV isn't worth it.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 12, 2017 12:20 PM  

I recommend starting with the CDC's own "Pink Book". Check out the Rubella component of MMR, cross reference what you know about prions, BSE, and CWD, and you'll come to a conclusion very quickly.

There's only a few vaccine's I've considered for my kids, and I even went so far as to compare the brands as they perform differently.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 12, 2017 12:22 PM  

For anyone interested in seeing just how BADLY you're lied to every fall when the "get your flu shot" propaganda claims "35,000" or "50,000" people die each year in the USA from the flu, any one of these pdf's will do. I'm almost shocked you can still find this data.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/mortality/lcwk10.htm

Scroll down any of the files to about halfway down page two, to where it shows (every time) that pneumonia deaths are massively larger than those attributed to influenza. A tiny minority of all pneumonia deaths were secondary to influenza.

Multi-dose influenza vaccines are probably THE #1 way Americans get injected with mercury.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 12, 2017 12:22 PM  

"The CDC has long answered that nettlesome question with the controversial claim that ethylmercury in vaccines is not toxic to humans."

Ethylmercury? IIRC, that's far more toxic than elemental mercury.

Also, I think it's interesting how these recommendations come out three days after Trump's FDA Commissioner was approved.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 12, 2017 12:23 PM  

@18 MMR is the worst. Enjoy injecting your children with human prions that go right through the blood-brain barrier from an aborted fetus cell culture with a genetic history of mental illness.

And no I'm not making that up. Check the Pink Book.

Blogger tz May 12, 2017 12:24 PM  

And chlorine is chlorine, but Mt. Pinatubo erupting injecting a billion tons of chlorine into the ozone layer can't possibly be a cause of a hole, it has to be the CFCs miles below that sink into the soil and are digested by bacteria.

Anonymous White Guy May 12, 2017 12:25 PM  

I've got 11 & 12 yr old girls that are coming up on some more 'booster' vaccines, I'm tempted to skip this round but being in 'the most diverse city' in the USSA, I'm between a rock and a hard place. --- HPV is non starter in my home!

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky May 12, 2017 12:26 PM  

Summer is coming so soon it will be malaria season ... in Minnesota. What's far more effective than vaccination is ridding the land of Somalis and the like.

Anonymous jack May 12, 2017 12:26 PM  

There is suggesting a mechanism of action and then there's demonstrating its effects with data. You might be surprised by the number of things in medicine that we think works one way but it in fact has no actual evidence supporting its use.

This article smacks of activism to the point of blindness, especially given that it first states "CDC Scientists" and then claims that the study was actually performed by the CDC itself. If I work for Sears and design a cardboard spoiler for my riced out honda civic, it doesn't mean that the spoiler was made by Sears. I realize that the confusion isn't central to the point of the article, but it exhibits their ability to, probably, intentionally conflate two different assertions so as to make the CDC look hypocritical. It does not make me read their other conclusions favorably. Compromise on intellectual honesty once and you're prone to do it again.

Recommendations are made on a balance of risk vs. harm. Regular dietary consumption of tuna can cause mercury to build up in the system resulting in toxicity. There are other foods one can ingest to provide the same health benefits as tuna without the drawback of mercury poisoning. And, again, it's not the single can that causes the problem (as the author implies), it's the repeat ingestion of tuna.

Having the flu is bad. It's especially bad for vulnerable or frail individuals, in whom it can result more readily in hospitalization, pneumonia, and death. It's not so bad in healthy, vigorous individuals, they're just miserable for a week. In these situations, where a potentially grave harm could befall a woman and an unborn baby, the potential benefits for either preventing or mitigating the severity of influenza is greater. Also, the risk of mercury poisoning is effectively zero given that it's not a vaccine that's given several times a week. I'm not sure how many of you have ever had a flu shot, but you generally only get it once a year. And yes, I know that the flu shot ranges in effectiveness between 40 and 70%, it's still significant. The number needed to treat before you either prevent or reduce the severity of the flu in one person is very small.

Let me condense it down into bullet points to make it easier to compare:
1) The health benefits of tuna are achievable by eating other foods
2) Regular consumption of tuna can lead to mercury toxicity

Therefore, the CDC recommends against regular ingestion of tuna

1) The health benefits of having a flu shot are not easily obtainable by other means.
2) The mercury exposure on part of the flu vaccine is one-time and does not result in significant mercury accumulation in the system.

Therefore, the CDC can recommend flu vaccine without being hypocritical. The fact that there is no logical grounds for them to make the argument for hypocrisy is something that should have been noticed.

I'm not arguing for the CDC or vaccines or any of that. Those fall outside the scope of One thing I want to make clear here is that I'm not attempting to make any points outside of these:

1) The author of the article lies about where the article comes from in an effort to point out the hypocrisy of the CDC.
2) The author of the article makes an illogical rhetorical argument in an attempt to point out the hypocrisy of the CDC.
3) The study seemingly only discusses mechanism of action without actually demonstrating harm with any power.

Based on the above, the author of the article ignores reality and logic to mislead the reader and make the point they want to make and as a result his arguments can be safely ignored. Or, who knows, maybe the point Vox was actually trying to make is that nobody's immune to rhetoric if they like the tune.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 12, 2017 12:28 PM  

Grayman wrote:Tech question....
Set "shields down" for the site.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 12, 2017 12:28 PM  

@18 please see the links (listed under Stupid) in #5 above.

Multi-use vials are sold and used in the USA. Those are FDA-approved Full Prescribing Instructions. They are used in pediatric offices as well as everywhere else. DAMN STRAIGHT they are used with pregnant women...especially when the physician is too lazy to realize that they're still here.

Look at the PI! Under section 8 (special populations) it NEVER ONCE suggests using strictly the single-use vial.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 12, 2017 12:29 PM  

@26 What is the Hippocratic oath again?

Blogger yoghi.llama May 12, 2017 12:36 PM  

You know, I've looked everywhere for an old-fashioned mercury sphygmomanometer to remind me of the good old days at med school. Can't find one. Because mercury is way too dangerous. In a glass tube, 30 cm away from the patient.

Blogger Cloudswrest May 12, 2017 12:36 PM  

It gets "better". Pediatricians recommend that parents give their kid Tylenol prior to injection to reduce fever. This interferes with heavy metal removal from the body. https://www.safeminds.org/blog/2017/03/31/data-points-acetaminophen-exposure-children-potentially-inducing-autism/

Also, most high Mercury containing seafish are also high in Selenium, which is the natural antidote to Mercury. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20561558

Anonymous Brick Hardslab May 12, 2017 12:37 PM  

Two of my grandchildren have been affected by their shots. One worse than the other. My daughter who is a nurse asked me if I thought their was something up with the modern vaccines. Apparently there are rumors even in the health care industry.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 12, 2017 12:47 PM  

@26. Jack, I haven't even generally been anti-vaccine (except flu vaccines, those are definitely moronic for multiple reasons) and even I can tell you that mercury doesn't "just pass through" the body, especially with regards to certain organs where it is known to build up permanently.

Flu vaccines, again, are straight moronic. All the evidence I can lay my hands on says:
#1: They don't even work. (I mean, seriously, it's a disease that mutates and circles back around through populations sometimes in a period of a handful of DAYS).
#2: The flu isn't even dangerous to most people, outside of a few immunocompromised margins.
#3: They actually cause many, many people to come down with full-blown flu, because the manufacturers suck at either effectively and completely "crippling" the flue antigens and/or filtering them out.
#4: They are definitely due more to a marketing push by certain pharmaceutical companies than any logical reason (insofar as they are pushed to huge numbers of people that really, really don't need them at all).

Blogger dc.sunsets May 12, 2017 12:48 PM  

@26 Jack,
1) The health benefits of having a flu shot are not easily obtainable by other means.

This statement is an assumption. In fact, the CDC's own estimates are that often the multivalent vaccine is a coin toss in effectiveness.

Many people are very deficient in vitamin D. In northern latitudes, influenza infections are just one of many infectious diseases that rise in the winter...(shockingly) when people's vitamin D stores, such as they were, are depleted.

I must be a total Rocket Scientist to wonder why no one has spent a few dollars to compare a group of unvaccinated people with vitamin D3 levels tested to remain in the normal zone to a group of random people who get the vaccine.

Anyone who thinks GSK or other maker of vaccines wants to see such a study performed and published must be in the market for the bridges I'm selling.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 12, 2017 12:59 PM  

@33, @34

You guys are fact arguing a gamma. His logic is better dismissed by asking him how many disabled or dead children are acceptable under "a balance of risk vs. harm" decision tree.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 12, 2017 1:00 PM  

@jack
"Recommendations are made on a balance of risk vs. harm."

Looks like you're swimming against the tide here. A valiant effort nonetheless. The underlying point may be that, for people to go along with a society-wide public health measure that requires any degree of sacrifice or perceived negative effects at the personal level, you need either: 1. A high-trust society with honest science and a feeling of community obligation, or 2. Compulsion.

If the government/ the progressive establishment have proven themselves untrustworthy in multiple other areas, it's not unreasonable to look with suspicion on their recommendation to inject you or your kids with what you view as basically unknown, potentially toxic substances. Especially when they insist, as others have noted, on importing the diseases they're trying to prevent.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT May 12, 2017 1:00 PM  

Mercury is mercury - And none of it is good for you, regardless of how it is ingested or administered:

'The dose makes the poison.' For any given chemical, including water and oxygen and mercury, there is a toxic and a non-toxic dose. This is more complicated than a single number and varies, sometimes quite dramatically, with sex, race, age, weight, general health, metabolism, genetics, etc, etc. But it remains true none-the-less.

I'm not claiming that the amount introduced via vaccines is absolutely harmless. But we can't just assume vaccines are harmful due to mercury. Nor is it safe to assume that harm seemingly caused by a vaccine must be due to mercury content. Yes, mercury is a neurotoxin at the right dose. But so is oxygen.

For the record: I generally agree with Vox's skepticism on vaccines and the vaccine industry. The benefits are overstated, the schedule is way too aggressive, and there isn't nearly enough testing or oversight. Worse, as a society we are going the wrong direction on this issue with increasing legal protections for big pharma and increasing demands that all must be vaccinated from the iLoveSCIENCE! crowd.

Never the less, we can't just point at mercury and shriek.

@29 - Jack made some good points, none of which are contradicted by the Hippocratic oath.

Anonymous VFM #7916 May 12, 2017 1:20 PM  

@37 "Recommendations are made on a balance of risk vs. harm."

Translation of the original greek Hippocratic Oath (https://infogalactic.com/info/Hippocratic_Oath):

"I will use treatment to help the sick according to my ability and judgment, but never with a view to injury and wrong-doing. Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course."

Naturally it's not the the oath sworn today, you're right. The exact phraseology for "Do no harm" comes later.

"Some good points" mean nothing when you look a mentally disabled little boy in the eye and tell him that the balance of risk versus harm means it was ok to inject him with prions and neurotoxins.

I admit to being sensitized in this matter. I know the CDC, .Gov, and big pharma are hypocrites, have money as their highest goal, and care not for individual cattle. This introduces a bias in my thinking, certainly.

Yet it does not invalidate one bit of it.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 12, 2017 1:20 PM  

@One Deplorable DT

'The dose makes the poison.' Exactly. The fundamental precept of toxicology. For your examples:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Water_intoxication

https://infogalactic.com/info/Oxygen_toxicity

Micronutrients:
https://infogalactic.com/info/Hypervitaminosis_A
https://infogalactic.com/info/Iron_poisoning

Etc. The complete absence of numbers from this discussion is telling.

Anonymous rienzi May 12, 2017 1:32 PM  

When I was a child we used to "accidentally" break thermometers to play with the mercury. Cool stuff. Now I'm old and so are all but one of us who did this stuff, (plane crash did him). I imagine if kids did this today it would be like a five alarm fire, with people in hazmat suits on the evening news.

Like most I get calls every fall about getting a flu shot. Its "flu weather". I have to gently remind them that I live in SWFL, its 85 degrees out, and I'm on my way to the beach. Greedy pharma morons.

Blogger APL May 12, 2017 1:41 PM  

rienxi: "Like most I get calls every fall about getting a flu shot. "

I get the same too, I like to tell them that it's not a bad idea to exercise my immune system at least once a year.

The other one the physician tries to foist on me any time I visit, and that's statins. They can shove those where the sun don't shine too.

Blogger Midnight Avenue J May 12, 2017 1:44 PM  

Never ever got a flu shot.

Kids are immunized but I requested a different schedule. Third child exhibited a lot of allergies. All kids breastfed for a minimum of a year before solids, but third one, he had issues. Eczema, vomiting, slow growth, lots of symptoms. I immediately ceased all shots until we figured it out. And changed my own diet, too. Multiple food allergies for him, a few for me, stopped eating the stuff and we were ok.

I got all kids on track with vaccines before school age (my husband doesn't truck with homeschool). I can't really say whether delay helped or not. I take it as an article of faith that it did, and my kids are ok. But more frequently I see kids who are NOT ok. At all. The kid who gets off of his special bus shouting "NO! NO!" Then "yes, ok!" Every day, I mean every day, I wonder what happened and then, why is he in school with my kids?

I see where others in my life won't, or don't. Or maybe I'm just loons.

Anonymous Bellator Mortalis May 12, 2017 1:45 PM  

And yet -- as a child I often had "mercurochrome" (see https://infogalactic.com/info/Merbromin ) applied to cuts. In high school chemistry we would roll mercury around on our hands and squish it to make separate balls of mercury. I regularly ate tuna before they freaked out about mercury levels in the fish. And had "silver" amalgam fillings (which contain a lot of mercury). Somehow I survived.

A key fact about "mercury" is that it comes in many different chemical forms. Some are highly toxic, some are minimally toxic.

Finally, it turns out that genetic variation definitely impacts how people respond to mercury exposure. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5295343/

A quote from the above link: "...Hg toxicity and associated health effects can vary remarkably at an individual level, depending not only on its chemical speciation, concentrations, and time of exposure, but also on the individual susceptibility to Hg hazards. In fact, not all individuals respond similarly under the same Hg exposure conditions, and they often display significant individual differences in Hg accumulation, distribution and elimination."

Blogger Cail Corishev May 12, 2017 1:47 PM  

I imagine if kids did this today it would be like a five alarm fire, with people in hazmat suits on the evening news.

I had a date planned with a new girl this one time. She called a few hours before the date and explained that she had had this jar of mercury her dad had given her, that he'd collected from some job he had. She'd knocked the jar off a shelf on accident and it broke, so she called 911, and they sent the fire department and EPA or something, who quarantined her house until it could be cleaned up and tested. So she had to cancel our date, because she couldn't leave while all that was going on and couldn't even get in to get dressed up.

So either you're right, or I was the victim of one of the most imaginative flakes ever. I never found out which.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 12, 2017 1:51 PM  

The other one the physician tries to foist on me any time I visit, and that's statins.

Bingo. If they're still pushing statins and cholesterol-lowing drugs in 2017, it's clear that they'll push anything if there's a profit in it, regardless of any evidence of its effectiveness or harm.

Anonymous Grayman May 12, 2017 2:36 PM  

Cali,

Statins..... The statin market is estimated at about 30 billion/year for the pharma industry.... And if they actually recognized that it harms more then it helps they would be open to lawsuits. Even the mechanism of plaque formation was founded under a fraud

Anonymous Critically Bent May 12, 2017 2:37 PM  

@45

Cholesterol doesn't need to be lowered. That data was a bunch of horse crap as well. 200 was picked as the upper limit to make sure that the actual adult average was above that level.

Anonymous SumDood May 12, 2017 2:51 PM  

So, if the MMR vaccine is bad (and prions ARE troubling)...should you skip it entirely? Delay it? Use alternative method of vaccination?

Just trying to find a safe(r) path that won't leave kids open to immigrant diseases.

Blogger Wadly May 12, 2017 2:53 PM  

Undoubtedly these same knuckleheads firmly believe in the "Linear No-threshold model" for radiation where even the tiniest dose is said to cause some amount of harm.
For more see https://infogalactic.com/info/Linear_no-threshold_model
+

Anonymous One Deplorable DT May 12, 2017 3:00 PM  

@38 - There is no contradiction here. "According to my ability and judgement" is key. We live in an imperfect world where we have to make decisions based on incomplete and imperfect information. Many of those decisions involve balancing potential benefits, risks, and harmful consequences. And we are rarely assured that A will lead to B, or that the worst which can happen is C. We often only have estimates and odds. Imperfect, incomplete, estimates and odds.

It is the world we were given, not the world which we might wish to have. And it is in this world that doctors have to make their recommendations and decide among various risks according to their ability and judgement.

As for the phrase "Neither will I administer a poison" the dose IS the poison. Everything you need to survive another day is beneficial at one level and a killer at another. Mercury is not blindly added to vaccines for giggles. It's an antiseptic/antifungal agent. Whether it's a harmful poison or a life saving preservative depends entirely on the numbers. And as Francis pointed out (@39), the complete absence of numbers from this discussion is telling.

"Some good points" mean nothing when you look a mentally disabled little boy in the eye and tell him that the balance of risk versus harm means it was ok to inject him with prions and neurotoxins.

Nice rhetoric. If you were debating an emotional woman. Then again, if said woman was pro vaccination, she would fire back with an image of 10,000 dead children because one child was not vaccinated. At which point you've lost the debate.

I would prefer to dispense with the emotion and the rhetoric and deal with hard data. To that point it's certainly worth reviewing the new information which Vox linked. But I stand by my critique of the idea that mercury should not be used, or should have never been used, as a preservative simply because "it's a poison." That phrase is meaningless without numbers.

Blogger Keoni Galt May 12, 2017 3:01 PM  

Cloudswrest wrote:It gets "better". Pediatricians recommend that parents give their kid Tylenol prior to injection to reduce fever. This interferes with heavy metal removal from the body. https://www.safeminds.org/blog/2017/03/31/data-points-acetaminophen-exposure-children-potentially-inducing-autism/

Also, most high Mercury containing sea fish are also high in Selenium, which is the natural antidote to Mercury. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20561558



Yes! Selenium binds mercury and prevents it's absorption in the gut. Most ocean fish that contains methylmercury, also contain much higher levels of selenium making them perfectly safe for pregnant women or anyone else to eat.

Selenium is also another factor (along with dc's point about vitamin D levels) as to why some kids get adverse reactions to vaccines while others do not. Presumably people who have a diet rich in selenium are much less likely to experience adverse reactions to vaccines with mercury.

Also, if you're really worried about mercury exposure, read the small print on the box of CFL light bulbs. The so called environmentally friendly replacement for Thomas Edison's greatest invention contains mercury in it, and requires a hazmat response should your CFL lightbulb break.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 12, 2017 3:04 PM  

"One would have thought that simply the term "neurotoxin" would be sufficient to dissuade scientists and doctors from recommending ingestion, but apparently not."

Maybe they should call it Deadly Neurotoxin.

MMR is the worst. Enjoy injecting your children with human prions that go right through the blood-brain barrier from an aborted fetus cell culture with a genetic history of mental illness.

@29 VFM #7916
IMO the MMR vaccine, as presently constituted, should be banned.

I suspect a large part of the problem the anti-vaxxers have with vaccines is bad vaccines like MMR.

Blogger VFM #7634 May 12, 2017 3:06 PM  

Yes! Selenium binds mercury and prevents it's absorption in the gut. Most ocean fish that contains methylmercury, also contain much higher levels of selenium making them perfectly safe for pregnant women or anyone else to eat.

Selenium is also another factor (along with dc's point about vitamin D levels) as to why some kids get adverse reactions to vaccines while others do not.


@51 Keoni Galt
One common way to clean up mercury spills and other messes involving mercury is to use sulfur. Selenium is closely related to sulfur, and because it's heavier, probably more effective at cleaning up mercury... although unlike sulfur, it's rare.

Blogger dc.sunsets May 12, 2017 3:13 PM  

The problem is "TRUST."

On the way UP the trust mountain, we learned to trust EVERYTHING our overlords told us. From Walter Cronkite to Anderson Cooper, and from Wilson, Ike, Nixon (er...um) and Clinton (uhhhhh, hurmph, etc.) to Trump, we were told that Those In The Know Knew Best.

This is an environment that naturally grows BS. Just as trusting Enron's executives grew lies and deceit, so too did our Trust Me, I'm From The Government.

Yes, I know everyone claims they don't believe a word of it, but if you take that road, pretty soon you can't eat anything you don't grow, drive anything you didn't build, etc., etc.

The problem is, the quantity of social trust is like a stock chart, with bull and bear markets. We're finishing the largest bull market in trust in a long time, and during the bear market in trust we'll find out just how much BS we were sold (or at least, we'll learn about some of it.)

When borrowing a dollar to spend one and get a second as an asset stops working, and Uncle can no longer dump loot on Big Pharma, the AMA and hospital associations, look for the American Bar Association to discover how much fun it is to switch sides, and instead of defending Pfizer, Merck, J&J, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, Kaiser, et.al. it's WAY more fun to sue them blind.

Wealth and power dictate what is visible and what is invisible.

We can see trust in the central system drain away right before our eyes. The problem is, we're left with a void. When one epistemology breaks down, another isn't necessarily waiting on deck.

Anonymous Grayman May 12, 2017 3:19 PM  

@50 One Deplorable DT

The issue is when you cant trust the data, when you lose integrity at the industry/research level, even the "hard" numbers are questionable. I've seen it first hand in the industry and there are plenty of documented cases.

If something as relatively "benign" as statins are stuffed down peoples throats needlessly, why would you trust them with vaccines? Especially when the pharma companies have been legally shielded from lawsuits in terms of vaccines.

Blogger JCclimber May 12, 2017 4:10 PM  

If it will save the life of even ONE child, we should mobilize the government to take action.

Since almost ALL of these diseases now enter the country from tourists and immigrants, the only logical and sensible thing to do will be to require banning immigrants from any nation with a recent history of hosting these diseases. All immigrants must be tested for the presence of these diseases and MUST be vaccinated before setting foot on our soil.

Tourists must present certification of immunizations before leaving the airport or seaport. No exceptions.

This would be much cheaper than dosing millions of people every year.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT May 12, 2017 4:10 PM  

@55 - The issue is when you cant trust the data, when you lose integrity at the industry/research level, even the "hard" numbers are questionable.

That's a separate issue from what I was addressing in my initial post. But I do agree that it is a very serious issue.

If something as relatively "benign" as statins are stuffed down peoples throats needlessly, why would you trust them with vaccines?

I made it clear in my first post that I do not "trust them" with vaccines. I don't need to "trust them" to compare the exposure via vaccines to the total exposure via other routes and question whether or not the smaller dose (vaccines) could be responsible for the ills that people want to place on it.

Honestly, I would guess that the vaccine schedule itself is the general problem. Too many too soon. That doesn't rule out poor individual responses to some vaccines or even to normally safe doses of any particular substance in a vaccine. Always remember we live in a world where one person's DNA enables them to smoke two packs a day without ever getting cancer while another person's DNA guarantees they will get cancer before age 10 no matter what they are exposed to or do. Most people might be perfectly fine with the amount of mercury in vaccines while a select few suffer serious side effects or even death. The same thing is true for peanuts and shellfish, and even sunlight.

It's simply more complicated than "that's a poison!" or "we can't trust them!" The best advice I could give a parent given the imperfect/incomplete information available is:

* Stretch out the vaccination schedule. Fewer vaccinations spread further apart starting at an older age.
* Only get the most important vaccinations.
* You do not need a flu vaccine unless you are elderly, and maybe not even then.
* Oppose immigration and refugees at every opportunity. The more immigrants there are, the higher the number of vaccinations which will be "necessary" if you want to avoid some horrific disease.

Blogger Dire Badger May 12, 2017 4:12 PM  

Vox, I Owe you an Apology.

At one point, about a year ago, I scoffed at your assertion that Vaccination causes Autism in Children.

After doing some rather extensive research, I made a few discoveries. First, I have always known that Heavy metal poisoning (with apologies to STYX) like lead and Mercury never leaver your body naturally. In a normal body, a certain level heavy metals is inevitable... As long as this remains low, you can adapt and the damage is minor.


In a developing fetus, however, the trace amounts of heavy metals, especially Methyl and Ethyl Mercury IN THE MOTHER, have a strong destructive correlation between Sensory disconnect disorder and levels of toxicity. Which is one of the reasons it is vastly more dangerous for older women to have babies... The Mercury and Lead and Other heavy metals buildup has an adverse affect.

While this is not strictly autism per se, it is virtually the same exact effect.

So with the rising heavy metals levels in the ocean making fish dangerous to eat, as well as using Ethyl Mercury as a food preservative, and the absolutely staggering amount of Ethyl Mercury in Vaccines, has caused a huge upsurge in Brain Damage even among infants that have NOT been personally vaccinated. Thus the scoffing

So yep, you were right, I was wrong. The Anti-Vaxxers have it right in that it MUST be stopped or each succeeding generation will have the same Brain Damage due to their mother's rising toxicity levels.

Blogger Daniel May 12, 2017 4:40 PM  

I had problems with the state because i refused to have my daughter vacinated with the gardasil hpv scamm. If I had trouble with a joke goverment like argentina, you 1st worlders must have it more difficult. Good luck!

Blogger bradfordmilesneumann May 12, 2017 4:45 PM  

what do you recommend as far as vaccinations ? My girl is expecting in September. I've heard that some vaccines contain like 19 different vaccinations in one shot.

Anonymous patrick kelly May 12, 2017 4:51 PM  

bradfordmilesneumann wrote:what do you recommend as far as vaccinations ? My girl is expecting in September. I've heard that some vaccines contain like 19 different vaccinations in one shot.

This:

"Honestly, I would guess that the vaccine schedule itself is the general problem. Too many too soon."

We never refused anything required, but we did delay and spread them out as much as possible. My experience the nurses were the vax nazis, our doctors were always very understanding and never objected to this.


Blogger Artisanal Toad May 12, 2017 4:53 PM  

To add to what Grayman has been saying...

The problem of untrustworthy data is just the tip of the iceberg. Any toxicologist with some experience can create a study protocol that generates the data he wants in order to support his goal. The problem has always been when the study generated "surprise" data that nobody could have predicted. The idea that study protocols are written with a view to actually discover the truth is ludicrous. It gets even wilder in the clinical trials because they're rigged in ways you cannot believe.

I had the man who was most responsible for getting Nutrasweet approved tell me "Do not put that shit in your body. I've seen the raw data." Then he told me what he had to do to get the package past the FDA.

Then there's the drugs that are removed because it was in the interests of *someone* that a less effective but highly profitable drug be the only thing available. Case in point? Organidin (Carter Wallace).

What about the stuff that gets suppressed? Klenner cured a polio epidemic in 1948 with high doses of intravenous vitamin C and had the story and protocol published in 1949. A cure for polio, but it was suppressed because they had vaccines in the pipeline that would be wildly profitable and you can't patent a vitamin.

Take a look at the data from the clinical trials of Burzynski's antineoplastin therapy. I had an FDA inspector look me in the eye and tell me that he'd never get a drug license because he and his wife own the patents personally. That was 20 years ago and it's still not approved.

I've seen a lot and heard a lot more from people I know I can trust. The system is completely broken and it isn't that we need to clean house, the house needs to be burned down.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 12, 2017 5:18 PM  

50. One Deplorable DT May 12, 2017 3:00 PM
Everything you need to survive another day is beneficial at one level and a killer at another.



Mercury isn't any more beneficial or necessary to "survive another day" than Plutonium.

Anonymous Grayman May 12, 2017 5:19 PM  

@62. Artisanal Toad


I've seen a lot and heard a lot more from people I know I can trust. The system is completely broken and it isn't that we need to clean house, the house needs to be burned down.

Yes! And if you spoke of half of it you would be ground into dust with lawfare by the various pharma interests.

Blogger Cloudswrest May 12, 2017 5:33 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:Yes! Selenium binds mercury and prevents it's absorption in the gut. Most ocean fish that contains methylmercury, also contain much higher levels of selenium making them perfectly safe for pregnant women or anyone else to eat.

Selenium is also another factor (along with dc's point about vitamin D levels) as to why some kids get adverse reactions to vaccines while others do not.


@51 Keoni Galt

One common way to clean up mercury spills and other messes involving mercury is to use sulfur. Selenium is closely related to sulfur, and because it's heavier, probably more effective at cleaning up mercury... although unlike sulfur, it's rare.

Both sulfur and selenium bind to mercury in a similar way, but selenium much more strongly. In fact, the primary toxic effect of mercury is to leach the trace element selenium strait out of the selenoproteins in the body, especially the brain.

Blogger Cloudswrest May 12, 2017 5:39 PM  

From Infogalactic: https://infogalactic.com/info/Mercury_poisoning

The toxicity of mercury sources can be expected to depend on its nature, i.e., salts vs. organomercury compounds vs. elemental mercury.
One mechanism of mercury toxicity involves its irreversible inhibition of selenoenzymes, such as thioredoxin reductase (IC50 = 9 nM).[18] Although it has many functions, thioredoxin reductase restores vitamins C and E, as well as a number of other important antioxidant molecules, back into their reduced forms, enabling them to counteract oxidative damage.[19] Since the rate of oxygen consumption is particularly high in brain tissues, production of reactive oxygen species (ROS) is accentuated in these vital cells, making them particularly vulnerable to oxidative damage and especially dependent upon the antioxidant protection provided by selenoenzymes. High mercury exposures deplete the amount of cellular selenium available for the biosynthesis of thioredoxin reductase and other selenoenzymes that prevent and reverse oxidative damage,[20] which, if the depletion is severe and long lasting, results in brain cell dysfunctions that can ultimately cause death.
Mercury in its various forms is particularly harmful to fetuses as an environmental toxin in pregnancy, as well as to infants. Women who have been exposed to mercury in substantial excess of dietary selenium intakes during pregnancy are at risk of giving birth to children with serious birth defects. Mercury exposures in excess of dietary selenium intakes in young children can have severe neurological consequences, preventing nerve sheaths from forming properly. Mercury inhibits the formation of myelin.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT May 12, 2017 5:42 PM  

@63 - Mercury isn't any more beneficial or necessary to "survive another day" than Plutonium.

If mercury enables the distribution of a vaccine that saves lives, then yes, for those people it was "necessary to survive another day." It's fair to debate risks and trade offs, but don't pretend there are no trade offs. Again, mercury was not and is not used in vaccines for shekels and giggles. It does its job as an antiseptic/antifungal quite well.

Anonymous patrick kelly May 12, 2017 6:04 PM  

"If mercury enables the distribution of a vaccine that saves lives" big "if".

Mercury is not necessary for vaccines that save lives.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 12, 2017 6:06 PM  

@64

The pathologists were the ones who knew where all the skeletons were hiding. I'm talking about the old guys who were around when Murchinson was about the only one providing contract toxicology work. At one time or another they'd worked for all the pharma companies as well as the contract labs.

A bottle of scotch in a quiet hospitality suite at the Society of Toxicology convention was the cost of a real education in how the drug development industry actually worked. For me, they provided the "tribal memory" of the industry, the things that have been swept under the rug.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 12, 2017 6:10 PM  

@48
So, if the MMR vaccine is bad (and prions ARE troubling)...should you skip it entirely? Delay it? Use alternative method of vaccination?

What did people do before the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine existed? Notice all the vaccinated Americans in colleges getting mumps lately? Strange, isn't it? Notice how children get vaccinated with MMR and still get a case of measles or chickenpox? Milder, maybe, but still. Strange.

It's better for a boy to go through mumps when he's 6 than when he's 16. Just saying.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 12, 2017 6:12 PM  

@46 Grayman
The statin market is estimated at about 30 billion/year for the pharma industry.

Isn't that stuff off patent by now? Can't' be as big a profit center as 20 years ago.

Blogger Matthew May 12, 2017 6:29 PM  

VFM #7916 wrote:@26 What is the Hippocratic oath again?

First, fuck all the pharma reps.

Blogger Matthew May 12, 2017 6:40 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:If mercury enables the distribution of a vaccine that saves lives, then yes, for those people it was "necessary to survive another day."

Ass.

Blogger Nate May 12, 2017 7:01 PM  

"If mercury enables the distribution of a vaccine that saves lives, then yes, for those people it was "necessary to survive another day."

Vaccines are not treatments for diseases. Thus... this statement is retarded. Retard.

Blogger BunE22 May 12, 2017 7:08 PM  

We used to play with mercury too. Once I was wearing a gold ring and the mercury bonded to it and turned it half silver colored. Couldn't get the mercury off.

I was vaccinated as we're my children. Something in the making of vaccines must have changed because there weren't high cases of autism, ADD, ADHD, etc. until more recent years.

Our pediatrician sent me my children's files and told me to find another doctor after my daughter and I decided that she would opt out of the meningitis vaccine before she went to college. We also passed on the HPV vaccine.

Blogger BunE22 May 12, 2017 7:11 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Looking Glass May 12, 2017 7:15 PM  

There's two forms of Autism: the classic "really bad shape" version and the modern Spectrum.

Classical is wholly genetic and not terribly related to the Spectrum. So most of the discussion is the roughly .8 to 1% of the population on the Spectrum.

Spectrum is a congenital neuro-inflammatory issue that's mostly related to the Mother's womb environment. Spectrum likelihood is variant with the mother's ROS mitigation systems, generally seen in the markers for homocysteine (which points to 1-carbon metabolism). Inflammatory markers rise with the age of both parents, but the mother's levels are far more important.

This is why the Vaccines do such nasty things to the Spectrum children. Their body is not capable of handling a very directed infection. Before mass vaccination, most of the Spectrum children would be dead before age 5. They were children with what used to be called "having a weak constitution". The likely reason they, now, don't die isn't from the vaccines they've gotten. It's from the vaccines healthy people have gotten that prevent the spread of certain childhood viruses. (The anti-incubator effect of some vaccines being their more important nature.) This allows the Spectrum child to make certain levels of maturity before coming into contact with, for them, deadly contagions.

As a general issue, some vaccines work. Some, clearly, don't. Others are in the murk in the middle. The MMR Vaccine, especially the modern version, really does seem to be a problem all on its own. The "Flu" vaccine also seems to be actively detrimental to everyone.

The childhood schedule is also WAY, WAY too tight. Part of the issue is that even those in their 30s saw far less vaccines while growing up than those now in their low 20s. (Chicken pox + several rounds of Hepatitis ones.) It takes at least 3-4 weeks for a healthy body to recover from 1 vaccine. Stacking 3-4 is just a bad idea for most in general, unless you're about to head to places that you probably shouldn't.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother May 12, 2017 7:18 PM  

Dire Badger, we in the organization are all very impressed with what you did in the comments here. It's gone up to the highest levels. Are you on Facebook? If so, look me up. I'd like to invite you to a group of select individuals.

Blogger Benjamin Kraft May 12, 2017 7:21 PM  

Good points about the cholesterol, other commenters. Was I the only one who would hear the adverts about cholesterol and then immediately say "LDL and HDL "Cholesterol" aren't even cholesterol... they're proteins! You guys have no idea what you're talking about and you want to sell me meds to help reduce or increase things that don't exist? Suuure."

Anonymous Patron May 12, 2017 7:24 PM  

"The CDC has long answered that nettlesome question with the controversial claim that ethylmercury in vaccines is not toxic to humans. Now, two CDC scientists have published research decisively debunking that assertion. As it turns out, there is no “good mercury” and “bad mercury.” Both forms are equally poisonous to the brain."

"Good mercury" vs "bad mercury"? Good Lord I wish these reporters had a clue. Mercury is mercury is mercury, but ethylmercury *is not* mercury.

Best way I can think of it is to compare it to, say, carbon. Carbon in glucose or starch is just fine, unless you binge eat/drink. Carbon in methanol will do a creditable attempt on your life in even small quantities.

Or if you want to be blunt, consider iron: in haemoglobin it's essential to life, but less so when I bludgeon you with a wrought iron bar :P .

= = =

A huge amount depends on whether the mercury is part of a molecule, and what happens to that molecule. I'm not saying ethylmercury is safe, or that there's a safe dose, because I'm just a layman with nothing like expert knowledge on this stuff, but if the ethylmercury goes in one end and comes out the other unchanged, it's probably not going to do any harm. That said, ethylmercury doesn't just go right through you, because wouldn't you know it, InfoGalactic notes you can get the mercury from it by metabolising it.

Finally, there's also the issue of dosage - the human body can usually handle some amount of a toxic substance without any noticeable ill effects, otherwise we'd be keeling over every day from nanoscopic amounts of mercury. Mind you, I note that a baby's body is just a little smaller and more vulnerable than an adult's :P .

Given (a) this new research, and (b) the stuff on InfoGalactic noting that ethylmercury's toxicity isn't well understood (out of date article now I guess :P ), I can quite understand why you might be worried about vaccines that have ethylmercury in as a preservative (or whatever).

Ideally, the thing to do now (note: I've not read the paper :P ) would be to estimate how much damage is done to an infant / child / adult by a typical vaccine dose that contains ethylmercury. It may be (and boy do I hope so) that the harm is so insignificant ("Mr & Mrs Smith, we think Joe lost a whole one brain cell") that as in any sane cost-benefit analysis it's just not worth worrying over ("I daren't leave my house & go to the shops - someone may run me over!"). On the other hand...

Blogger Charles Martel May 12, 2017 7:46 PM  

Elemental mercury is harmless if swallowed. You'll just shit it out. Chemical compounds containing mercury are another matter.

Blogger Cail Corishev May 12, 2017 7:46 PM  

Old man rant:

I learned about "fidget spinners" for the first time a couple days ago. Apparently they're some sort of distraction or focus tool for kids on the "spectrum." My nephew's always been pretty normal, but he bought one at the gas station because so many of his friends have them, and they do tricks with them, so he wanted one. Now he spends a lot of time walking around staring at this thing he's spinning in his fingers. My dad asked him what it was, and he couldn't look up to answer, just kinda mumbled something and wandered away spinning it. It's like that stupid TNG episode The Game, except I don't think Wesley and Ashley Judd are going to save us.

With all the toys and gadgets and activities kids have today, they need another thing to occupy their minds and hands? We used to go outside and play, or read a book, or watch TV. They can't even watch TV; they fidget too much for that. They have to watch TV (or have it going) while they check their messages and twiddle their spinner.

Something isn't right. I don't know if it's vaccines, diet, busted families, something else, or a combination of all of the above. But there's no way half of a generation suddenly turned into fidgety space cadets without something causing it.

Blogger Charles Martel May 12, 2017 7:47 PM  

Elemental mercury is harmless if swallowed. You'll just shit it out.

Anonymous Patron May 12, 2017 8:07 PM  

Elemental mercury's not exactly harmless, even if swallowed. Your digestive tract will absorb some of it, and whilst that's not as bad as inhaling the vapour, it's still nothing good for you. "Mad as a hatter" and all that.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT May 12, 2017 8:13 PM  

@74 - Vaccines are not treatments for diseases. Thus... this statement is retarded. Retard.

Vaccines prevent diseases. Some of which are potentially lethal. And some of which are nearly 100% lethal even with modern healthcare. Thus the link I outlined is valid and the trade offs are real.

But if you insist that I'm the retard for pointing this out, feel free to spend some time around rabid animals. Whatever you do, do not get the rabies vaccine first. And do not let them give it to you after exposure either (part of the standard treatment protocol). Your last thought before the doctors induce a comma in a desperate attempt to save you can be "at least I wasn't exposed to mercury."

Blogger Charles Martel May 12, 2017 8:33 PM  

@84
Mercurous nitrate (among other mercury compounds) was used in the hat-making trade and definitely causes profound central nervous system damage.

Cheers.

Anonymous Avalanche May 12, 2017 8:41 PM  

@70 "What did people do before the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine existed? Notice all the vaccinated Americans in colleges getting mumps lately? Strange, isn't it? Notice how children get vaccinated with MMR and still get a case of measles or chickenpox? Milder, maybe, but still. Strange."

Are y'all too young to remember measles parties? It was how you got your young kids infected young. Pile a bunch of younglings in a closed room with a newly en-measled neighbor kid. "Measles Mary" was viewed as a friendly disease vector, not a horrible disease vector.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 12, 2017 8:42 PM  

@82 Cail Corishev
I learned about "fidget spinners" for the first time a couple days ago.

Did a search to see what it looks like. Cute toy, I can see where it might be useful in some ways, but don't expect to see one hereabouts.

Two boys just walked into this coffee place, obvious brothers, the younger one with a fidget spinner and a sorta vacant look on his face. How did you do that?

Blogger Billy Ray May 12, 2017 8:44 PM  

mercury in fish - bad
mercury in a thermometer - bad
mercury shot into newborn's butt thru half a dozen vax - 0h that's no big deal. 100 percent safe.

we need to minimize the number of vax and delay/spread out the dosing schedule - you know like 30 yrs ago when we had protection and little to no autism

Blogger Billy Ray May 12, 2017 8:51 PM  

buried in the fine print but SEVERAL vax have autism and other serious illnesses listed in the package inserts as potential harmful side effect but then say the drug is 100 percent safe. which it isn't because no drug/vax is

“Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 12, 2017 8:59 PM  

Here are some tidbits that will help you understand the medical industry view of health vs profit.

Dr. Robert Nara discovered and developed a technique by which teeth heal themselves. No need to have cavities drilled and filled with mercury because teeth heal themselves under the right conditions. For threatening the dental industry, they took his license away. He wrote two books, "How To Become Dentally Self Sufficient" and "Money By The Mouthful". They are available for free online.

Dr. William Bates developed an exercise program by which the eyes can heal themselves. He wrote books and had a magazine in print for over a decade about 100 years ago. Virtually any eye problems can be healed through a series of exercises. His work was suppressed and ignored after his death. Everything he wrote is online for free.

EDTA chelation is the go-to treatment for lead poisoning because EDTA binds with heavy metals and allows them to be excreted in the urine. It has an amazing impact on atherosclerosis, better than anything else. Typically a metal ion (such as iron) attaches itself to the wall of a vein or artery. This creates a lesion and the body secretes calcium to protect itself. The EDTA removes the ion, allowing the lesion to heal and the body turns the concrete pump in reverse and absorbs the calcium. No more blockage. Oops, no need for bypass surgery or a stent.


I have personal experience with all of those and know they work.


And if your wife gets breast cancer, the only options she has are being burned, poisoned or to have her tits cut off (generally all three) because nobody wants to admit a cheap cure exists. Invasive Ductile Carcinoma (pretty much all cell types) tends to have little or no catalase in its cells. Which means that about $50 worth of sodium ascorbate given by IV in high doses has a specific cytotoxic effect. It nails the metastasis first and then goes after the tumors and destroys them. The most dangerous part is the necrotic cascade that results from killing the tumors which can be a problem if the tumors are killed too quickly.

I have observed this treatment cure non-Hodgkin Lymphoma, several types of melanoma and adenocarcinoma and squamous carcinoma of the lungs in addition to IDC.

I mentioned Fred Klenner curing polio with high doses of intravenous Vitamin C. Poliomyelitis, influenza, herpes, ebola, rabies and HIV are all viruses. If poliomyelitis can be destroyed by high doses of intravenous C, why hasn't there been any research done on using this on the rest of them? Because Vitamin C (ascorbic acid, sodium ascorbate) cannot be patented. Besides, destroying disease is bad for business.

So... why doesn't the NIH do some research on any of this?

Anonymous Marvin Boggs May 12, 2017 9:29 PM  

@43: personal observation is a difficult way to tell whether there are truly more problem kids today than yesteryear. When I was a kid (60s), problem kids simply did not attend school (well, not regular school), so we rarely saw them. Now, they all attend regular school because "rights" so there are more problem kids in plain sight.

That said, I suspect there are more problem kids because of broken families, intentional single parent families, lack of discipline (spank?), crap food, far too much video time, lack of real opportunity for real play, maybe vaccines, ....

I'd hate to be a kid today.

Sorry, I'll stop my old guy rant now.

Blogger Charles Martel May 12, 2017 9:30 PM  

@91
Now that the Internet is available to us the arrogant, condescending jerks who, in the past, had a lock on the only-we-physicians-know-what's-good-for-your-health racket are now being shown to be people of average IQ who have limited knowledge of things medical (there are a FEW exceptions). Big Pharma uses them as its lackeys for pushing drugs.
Go to a physician and you get one diagnosis. Go to a second physician and you get an entirely different diagnosis (this happened to me, only I went to FOUR different physicians and got four different diagnoses--only one of which proved to be correct). I finally started doing my own research on the Net and learned a lot of things that helped my family with our health issues. I only go to the doctor's office now for routine blood work once a year.

Blogger Dire Badger May 12, 2017 9:39 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Dire Badger, we in the organization are all very impressed with what you did in the comments here. It's gone up to the highest levels. Are you on Facebook? If so, look me up. I'd like to invite you to a group of select individuals.

Oh, you are a huge fan of STYX?

Cool. Me too.

If you are talking about the Oathkeepers, I am already a member(Although here in Utah there is very little presence because the kinds of problems the Oathkeepers deal with are vanishingly small here.)But I would be happy to connect with others.

As long as it's not the "Semi Oath Keepers" that like to pretend that it's still 1947.

You can find me on Facebook as "Badger Brigadon". I looked up your name, but obviously there were several hits. I am assuming you were the... vocal texan fellow.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 12, 2017 9:54 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:Vaccines prevent diseases. Some of which are potentially lethal. And some of which are nearly 100% lethal even with modern healthcare.
Name a disease that's nearly 100% lethal that can be prevented with a vaccine.

Hell, name on that's even 20% lethal.

I sure can't think of any.

Blogger Gospace May 12, 2017 11:06 PM  

From multiple sources, smallpox lethality rate is approximately 30%. According to some sources, the Russians developed a strain with a much higher lethality rate.

Don't see any smallpox around anymore. Because vaccine.

Blogger Cloudswrest May 12, 2017 11:33 PM  

BunE22 wrote:We used to play with mercury too. Once I was wearing a gold ring and the mercury bonded to it and turned it half silver colored. Couldn't get the mercury off.


And you won't either. Mercury dissolves gold. Drop gold into a flask of mercury and it will dissolve like a sugar cube in hot water. Miners used mercury to extract gold from ore. They would soak the crushed ore in mercury, then boil away the mercury, leaving the gold behind. If you heat your gold ring red hot the mercury in/on it will vaporize away.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 12, 2017 11:39 PM  

so ...

a single success ...

with a disease that has a lethality FAR below 50%?

and we've been using vaccines for a century now? and that's ALL the success you've got?

huh.

maybe there aren't near as many Nails as you are trying to whack with your Hammer?

this reminds me of my aunt, the practicing RN. she HATES chiropractors.

her evidence as to why chiros are quacks?

she cited studies to me which find that "chiropractic does not produce results more efficacious than surgery or prescription pain killers".

read that again.

because it sounds an awful lot to me like she just said that chiropractic is every bit the quack practice that surgery and prescription pain meds are.

she, of course, doesn't understand what i'm talking about when i point out the absurdity to her. because i don't have a doctorate.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash May 12, 2017 11:39 PM  

Since Smallpox has essentially been absent from the US since shortly after WWII, we have no idea how the disease would respond to modern medical treatment.
And the Russian variant is also said to be immune to the vaccine.

And you're quite right, I will be happy to get a smallpox shot. Chickenpox, however, is right out.

Blogger Gospace May 12, 2017 11:54 PM  

so ...
a single success ...
with a disease that has a lethality FAR below 50%?
and we've been using vaccines for a century now? and that's ALL the success you've got?


The only virus to date actually wiped out, with a concerted worldwide effort to do so, with the cooperation of multiple governments and international organizations, because of the mortality rate, and because the only known avenue of transmission was person to person.

Don't know if there are any other viruses out there that would succumb to such an effort. None that jump from other species to humans, and probably none with an insect vector transmission.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 13, 2017 12:48 AM  

i never said that there wasn't a place for vaccinations.

i'm just pointing out that DT's "some of which are nearly 100% lethal even with modern healthcare" amounts to a lie, the assertion is so absurd.

the specific instance of rabies is actually most effectively mitigated by ... vaccinating dogs.

no mercury needed.

and rabies shots, in particular, aren't even given until AFTER the person has been bitten ( unless you have job in which you are regularly exposed to animals which may be infected ).

now, why do you suppose it is that the general population isn't already 100% vaccinated against rabies?

i mean, vaccines are harmless, RIGHT? that would be why pharma companies lobbied for Congress to pass laws granting them unconditional immunity from harm caused by their injections ...

hrm.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 13, 2017 1:54 AM  

@Nate
"Thus... this statement is retarded. Retard."

Exactly. Just look at all of those people dying of smallpox daily. Good point.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 13, 2017 2:10 AM  

@Snidley Whiplash

"Name a disease that's nearly 100% lethal that can be prevented with a vaccine.

Hell, name on that's even 20% lethal."

As far as I know, there's been one (1) reported case of an unvaccinated human surviving rabies after symptoms develop. Not 100%, but damn close.

Yellow fever is around 6-7% overall mortality, 50% for the toxic phase. Very effective vaccine.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey May 13, 2017 2:19 AM  

@((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga

"the specific instance of rabies is actually most effectively mitigated by ... vaccinating dogs."

Fascinating new discovery in biology-- scientists develop groundbreaking category, to be referred to henceforth as "wild animals."

Anonymous WhiteBoner May 13, 2017 3:16 AM  

Regarding the arguments of dosage:

There is a critical distinction between injecting and ingesting a substance - in this case neurotoxins like aluminum and mercury.

The bulk of the immune system (80% to 90%, depending upon the source) is contained in the digestive tract for the obvious that this is where we're bringing in the bulk of foreign objects. Is sticking something up your ass the same as putting it in your mouth? Of course not. The same goes with vaccines. You can't talk about dosage for eating something when it's actually being injected straight into the bloodstream, thereby bypassing 90% of the body's defenses and cleansing mechanisms. (Moreover, the "dosage" for an adult would not transfer over in a linear fashion to a newborn baby, for a host of reasons.)

The biggest test here - that many have referenced - is the need to compare vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Liberals and government love to say it's "impossible because it'd be unethical to deprive kids of vaccines." Too late! There are millions of vaccine-free or minimally-vaxxed children in the USA (including mine) and they can readily be used as a control group. Yet the government still refuses to do it.

So, a private firm conducted it via schooling. They did an excellent job and, sure enough, vaccine-free kids are far, far, far healthier than the vaccinated.

(Don't give me the shitlib SCIENCE! retort about "small sample size". This is why you have confidence intervals in basic statistics. Moreover, European surveys and studies have always reached the same conclusion: vaccine-free families are far healthier. Full stop.)

http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/vaccinated-vs.-unvaccinated-guess-who-is-sicker

Blogger Dire Badger May 13, 2017 4:07 AM  

I am interested, not to be contrary, in the history of Polio... Most history documents conclude that it was the Polio Vaccine that helped to turn the tide against the horrifying disease, but I am open to alternative explanations.

Blogger David Brennan May 13, 2017 4:25 AM  

@Dire Badger

Red Ice had an excellent interview largely covering the truth about polio. This woman goes through the history, and it's as ugly as you'd fear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzzMHfjMpgk&t=481s

A few key notes on polio:

1. Like chicken pox and measles, polio is just a benign flu for the overwhelming percent of people who contract the infection. Like those others, among a tiny percentage of people, that flu can then metastasize into encephalopathy (nervous system inflammation). Finally, in only a few of those people will you see permanent damage. So the notion that polio is this horrid death sentence worse than pancreatic cancer is utterly bogus.

2. Jonas Salk was a Jew.

3. The vaccine was pitched with a media campaign that would shame most Hollywood summer tentpoles. Celebrities (including Lucille Ball, Sammy Davis Jr.) made endless paid commercials for it (YouTube "March of Dimes commercials"), doctors were given all sorts of flowery propaganda posters that presaged the "For the Children" meme, and newspapers loved building up their fellow Jew as an American hero for the ages.

4. Like all other diseases, the mortality rate plummeted long before the vaccine. Mortality rate plummeted because (a) people had adequate food supplies after the industrial revolution and therefore measles or polio wouldn't merely push them over the edge while they were already dying of starvation, (b) indoor plumbing allowed for clean water, and (c) sanitation knowledge and knowledge allowed for people to stop spreading diseases to the sickly population in hospitals. John and Sonja McKinlay did an excellent paper on this for Harvard in 1977 called, "The Questionable Contribution of Medical Measures to the Decline of Mortality in the United States in the Twentieth Century"

http://imgur.com/a/Mh2Vz

Blogger APL May 13, 2017 6:25 AM  

Well, an interesting comment thread. I'd be interested in opinions about the effects of mercury amalgam tooth fillings?

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 13, 2017 6:33 AM  

Gospace wrote:Don't see any smallpox around anymore. Because vaccine.


Do some research on the historical effectiveness of the smallpox vaccine and observe: IT DID NOT WORK. Multiple recorded instances of individuals vaccinated 2-3 times who still got smallpox and died. Entire cities that were vaccinated later suffered smallpox epidemics.

Then, suddenly, following World War II there was a huge effort to vaccinate everyone and smallpox was (cue triumphant music) WIPED OUT. And all the idiots cheered and congratulated each other, repeating the mantra, "Vaccines work! We are saved by vaccines!"

Only a complete asshole will now state the facts about this ridiculous faith in vaccines, because no-one else will do it. FACT: the vector of transmission for variola has NEVER been established, much less proved, it's merely assumed. We have many claiming the vector of transmission, but surprise, NO. There is no PROOF. There isn't even any research.

But wait, are we sure about that? Is there not one asshole who discovered the truth and spoke out?

As it turns out, there was such a man: Dr. Charles A. R. Campbell of San Antonio, Texas. Now, you who repeat the shibboleth of big pharma "But, what about SMALLPOX", train your attention on a book Dr. Campbell wrote in 1925, "Bats, Mosquitoes and Dollars". Scroll down and observe Part III, entitled "Bedbugs and Smallpox".

He tried like hell to get some conclusive research done, but was told it was "immoral". Right. And in the same breath you might claim the Tuskegee experiments never happened? Right. But never mind, let's look further into this huge success of "vaccinations" against smallpox.

FACT: it was discovered in 1939 that a chemical called DDT was positively fucking LETHAL on bugs and so we sprayed that shit everywhere our troops went during the later stages of WWII. DDT was an effective mosquito control (the primary vector of transmission for yellow fever and malaria), which meant that suddenly our troops were no longer in more danger from disease than from the enemy.

Oops, there's that damn "vector of transmission" again, almost like it's important to know that blood-sucking insects can transmit disease.

It worked SO WELL that DDT was put in production in ever-more industrial quantities. And when the WHO health crews went out vaccinating willy-nilly all around the world, those crews included sanitation teams. In a repeat of WWII, they sprayed the shit out of EVERYTHING with DDT.

Which KILLED the bedbugs and SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE: smallpox was eradicated. But nobody can see the dead bedbugs, which were the vectors of transmission, so the people bowed in worship of big pharmma and the failed vaccine theory saying

"We are safe, we are safe, praise big pharma, we are saved by vaccines!"

And I asked the question earlier... what do poliomyelitis, variola, rabies, ebola, herpes and HIV all have in common? They are viruses. I wondered... if poliomyelitis can be destroyed by high doses of intravenous sodium ascorbate, why has there not been any research on curing the other viral problems the same way?

The NEW question is, can bedbugs be an effective vector of transmission for any of these viruses? Based on past performance, I can guarantee there will be ZERO research to answer this question.

And, in other news, thanks to the ban on DDT and increased travel and immigration from the 3rd world, bedbugs are making a comeback. Thanks to big pharma no useful research is being done on Vitamin C.

You may return to your regularly scheduled programming.

Blogger bw May 13, 2017 10:34 AM  

What would be fun, like GloboHomo Corporations, is if they re-named some of these things occasionally.
Like, say, "Polio" -->> "Meningitis"

The alchemical jest is noted as well.

Blogger John P May 13, 2017 12:37 PM  

My advice is to not do it and if you do only after they are 2 and then stretch them out. Mt daughter was partially vaccinated and having adverse reactions until I studied up on it and stopped. Most sates let you get a philosophical or religious exemption which is easy to do and gets them in school. Don't let them scare you. May daughter got Chron's probably from over vaccination. My son is eight and never had a shot and has only needed antibiotics about 4x in his life and is way healthy. 49 does of 17 vaccines before age six is what CDC recommends and most Peds adhere to. That is crazy. If you Ped tells you he will not see you because you do not vaccinate then switch Peds or bring them to a GP ot Urgent Care if thy get sick. F them.

Blogger Gospace May 13, 2017 4:03 PM  

So, a private firm conducted it via schooling. They did an excellent job and, sure enough, vaccine-free kids are far, far, far healthier than the vaccinated.

Must be the explanation why we have so many deaf and sterile Amish around here, from their healthy unvaccinated lifestyle in which they contract measles and mumps. Sometimes as adults because they missed out as children.

Blogger Artisanal Toad May 13, 2017 6:05 PM  

Gospace

"Must be the explanation why we have so many deaf and sterile Amish around here"

As with your vaccine fantasies, you choose the most improbable of explanations rather than the most reasonable.

The Amish you believe to be deaf are actually not. The explanation is they are simply ignoring you.

The Amish men men you believe to be sterile are actually not. The explanation is your wife didn't tell you she has an IUD.

Go shill for big pharma somewhere else.

Anonymous Avalanche May 13, 2017 6:13 PM  

@103 "As far as I know, there's been one (1) reported case of an unvaccinated human surviving rabies after symptoms develop. Not 100%, but damn close."

Interesting article on a new "treatment" for (actual) rabies infections: https://www.wired.com/2012/07/ff_rabies/

(from which:)
_... Even though his specialty was infectious disease, Willoughby knew almost nothing about rabies. “For the board exams,” he says, “you only needed to know one thing: that it was 100 percent fatal.” "

and
"...the standard intervention against rabies—a vaccine, administered in multiple shots over the course of two weeks, that allows the body to mount an immune response before the virus reaches the brain."

and
"...today, after millennia of futility, hospitals have an actual treatment to try. It was developed in 2004 by a pediatrician in Milwaukee named Rodney Willoughby, who, like the vast majority of American doctors, had never seen a case of rabies before. (In the US, there are usually fewer than five per year.) Yet Willoughby managed to save a young rabies patient, a girl of 15, by using drugs to induce a deep, week-long coma and then carefully bringing her out of it. It was the first documented case of a human surviving rabies without at least some vaccination before the onset of symptoms. Soon Willoughby posted his regimen online, and he worked with hospitals around the world to repeat and refine its use. Now referred to as the Milwaukee protocol, his methodology has continued to show limited success: Of 41 attempts worldwide, five more patients have pulled through,"

Anonymous Avalanche May 13, 2017 6:15 PM  

On the other hand:

https://www.wired.com/2012/08/rabies-survivor-mystery-deepens/

(from which:)
"Now a new study provides more ammunition for the idea that humans might survive rabies on their own.
Monica Murphy is a veterinarian; Bill Wasik is a senior editor at Wired. Their book, Rabid: A Cultural History of the World’s Most Diabolical Virus, is out now from Viking.

A research team led by Amy Gilbert of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied two communities in Peru where vampire bat attacks on cattle are common. Of 63 people tested, seven of them came back positive for virus-neutralizing antibodies against rabies — and only one of them had ever received rabies vaccination, which would induce the immune system to create the antibodies. That fact strongly suggests that the other six produced the antibodies after being exposed to rabies but failed to die from the illness. And indeed, most of the seropositive Peruvians reported that they had been bitten by a vampiro at least once.

... does this settle the debate over rabies survival? Probably not."

Blogger kurt9 May 13, 2017 6:38 PM  

My personal life experiences, which I will not share here, is entirely due to Mercury poisoning from vaccines, allergy shots (allergies that were definitively caused by the mercury in the vaccines), and other sources I am not aware of.

Medical Mercury fucked up my life and it is only in the past 10 years that I have rid myself of it via chelation therapy.

I have very strong feelings about this issue that I will not share here. I will only say that I will never get another vaccine again, no matter what the MD's and other medical authorities have to say about them.

Blogger Gospace May 13, 2017 8:52 PM  

Now referred to as the Milwaukee protocol, his methodology has continued to show limited success: Of 41 attempts worldwide, five more patients have pulled through,"

Part of the treatment consists of treating symptoms BEFORE they appear. Since the progression of symptoms in rabies is well known. But having read multiple things on high doses of intravenous vitamin C and viruses, I've got to wonder if adding that to the treatment regimen would help. I rather imagine it certainly wouldn't hurt.

BTW, Artisanal Toad, you argue just a like a liberal. Fantastic personal attack with no basis in any kind or reality, and completely unrelated to what was said. Too bad dueling is unlawful.

Blogger Cloudswrest May 14, 2017 12:23 AM  

I would not find it surprising if many people have been exposed to rabies, developed anti-bodies, and did not come down with an infection. Every disease must have rump infections that do not take root. When people speak of Rabies being nearly universally fatal they mean SYMPTOMATIC Rabies, not Rabies anti-body blood test.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( don't trifle with me, son. i'm a professional, certified 4th degree black belt in the ancient Hebrew martial art of Kibitz Maga ) May 14, 2017 2:28 AM  

112. Gospace May 13, 2017 4:03 PM
Must be the explanation why we have so many deaf and sterile Amish around here, from their healthy unvaccinated lifestyle in which they contract measles and mumps.



must be the explanation why we have so many polydactyl Amish around here, from their healthy unvaccinated lifestyle.

you really are tarded.

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